I got home this evening to find that I'm not the only one who's bothered by the Giuliani run for President. Michael Tomasky's cover story for the latest dead-tree edition of The American Prospect magazine is titled: "If You Knew Rudy Like I Know Rudy…" Ever since I decided to follow Giuliani's campaign, exposés about the "real" Rudy Giuliani have been leaping out at me. Some favorable (Newsweek, anything from Faux Noise), some not so much (Mother Jones, The American Prospect). The fact of the matter is, the rest of the country thinks they know "America's Mayor", but in truth, what they're seeing is the latest incarnation of the bendy doll that is Giuliani's political career.
A bit of an historical perspective is necessary, if you want to get at the heart of why a Giuliani presidency would be nothing short of disastrous. By historical, I mean before September 11, 2001, the day Giuliani was hoisted up on that pedestal for not running away from his job (unlike some leaders we know). Before 9/11, when he ran a scandal-ridden campaign against Hillary Clinton for the Senate, when he was shown to be a philandering and heartless sonofabitch to his family, when he praised the policemen who riddled Amadou Diallo's body with bullets, and oh, yes, when, in an effort to boost his flagging Senate campaign, he broke state laws by releasing the sealed juvenile delinquency records of Patrick Dorismond, another victim of trigger-happy cops. Why? In order to defame a corpse.
Rudy Giuliani has always relied on political opportunism . . . I mean, flexibility . . . to stay alive in the bloody-knuckled world of New York politics. Learning all he needed to know about the malleability of truth from his wiseguy ex-con father, Giuliani switched political affilations three times in ten years until he decided that "Republican" was the best description he could find for his personal ethos. He was certainly ambitious; he made it through law school and wound up as U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York. Yes, he worked through his unsubtle Oedipal complex by defrocking 5 mob bosses. He also pantsed Ivan Boesky and pulled the toupee off Michael Milken. So when the time came for his inevitable run for mayor, he already had the "tough on crime" part of his platform certified. It was the squishy social issues he struggled with.
As Tomasky notes in his article,
When Giuliani was mayor, did he really believe in abortion rights and gay rights and strict gun control laws and very liberal immigration policy? "That's a very, very tough question," says David Garth, the legendary New York political consultant who handled Giuliani's 1993 and '97 mayoral races. "My feeling was, the positions he took, he felt them. Whether he really felt them, I mean . . . I don't know."
Giuliani wanted to brand himself as a "social liberal," even if his feelings for gay rights or women's reproductive freedom were lukewarm, at best. Assuming that position got him what he wanted: votes. Unfortunately for the rest of us, he was setting up an internal tug-of-war when he tried to make those two ideas co-exist. Eventually, one side was going to win out. We New Yorkers know all about which side that was. JoAnn Wypijewski writes in the latest edition of Mother Jones [not yet available on line]:
[Rudy Giuliani] compares President Bush's escalation of the war in Iraq to his own big-fisted approach to New York, and suffers no harm for the implication of that admission: that he pursued a war on part of the city's population while the rest of us became inured to punishment, to brakes on free expression and policing as a way of life.
"Socially Liberal" Giuliani eventually created a near-police state, starting with the "Broken Windows" criminal justice theory that espouses cracking down on "quality of life" or "gateway" crimes. Sure, we were overjoyed that we didn't step out of our buildings in the morning to find men urinating on the steps or our front doors tagged with graffiti. But at what cost? Again, Mother Jones' Ms. Wypijewski:
Civil libertarians used to joke darkly that under Giuliani, New York became "a First Amendment-free zone." His policing fetish didn't just purge gang tags and porn houses; it closed public spaces to protest and led to a host of other efforts to quash dissent. Most of the latter were reversed in court, but the chill was on.
New Yorkers weren't particularly pleased that Giuliani had managed to alienate everyone except the "moneyed class" with his Big Brother approach to free speech or his ham-fisted handling of race relations. The Giuliani years were certainly disastrous for minorities, who, when they weren't taking 41 bullets the hard way or being sodomized with broomsticks, were blamed for everything from the existence of those ubiquitous squeegee men to the grindhouses and porn shops on the Deuce (aka 42nd St.).
Greg Sargent, horrified (and rightfully so) by Newsweek's cover story/whitewashing of Giuliani's history, characterizes the feeling in New York during the Reign of Big Brother:
Polls showed that while New York City residents did applaud the goals Rudy reached, majorities were decidedly opposed to his tactics. A New York Times poll in April of 2000, in the wake of the police shooting of Patrick Dorismond, found that 50% disapproved of Rudy's handling of crime, his signature issue, and concluded that "New York City residents have a decidedly negative view of Mr. Giuliani's handling of race relations." . . . . The discomfort New Yorkers felt with Rudy's tactics, as opposed to his results, go directly to the heart of questions about the man's character.
So you can understand why New Yorkers were a bit dubious about this "America's Mayor" horse turd when it sprang up. Yes, congratulations may have been in order because Giuliani held his shit together long enough to communicate important information to the general public. Many of us, however, saw Giuliani in the harsh light of day, not through the vaseline-smeared lens of a post-9/11 world. We jumped up and down and yelled, "No, no, no!" whenever somebody praised Rudy for how he turned Times Square into a haven of brightly-lit banality, because cleanliness came at the cost of personal liberties and freedom of speech.
Yesterday marked another morphing in Giuliani's campaign. Asked for his thoughts on the Supreme Court decision on "partial birth" abortions, Giuliani responded, "The Supreme Court reached the correct conclusion in upholding the congressional ban on partial birth abortion. I agree with it."
(Note the choice of words. "Correct." Not "right", but "correct". This is so that when he finds himself sinking in the polls amongst likely voters, he can point to this statement and say, "I was merely asserting that I thought the Supreme Court followed procedure correctly." Because Rudy is nothing if not morally, um, agile.)
As Media Matters points out,
in 2000, Giuliani said he agreed with President Clinton's veto of the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act of 1997, saying then — in response to a question about whether if he, as a senator, would have "vote[d] with the president or against the president" — that he would have "vote[d] to preserve the option for women." On the February 5 edition of Fox News' Hannity & Colmes, when Giuliani expressed support for the current law banning "partial-birth abortion," co-host Sean Hannity pressed him about the apparent reversal. Giuliani attempted to reconcile his two positions by stating that he supports such bans only when they contain a "provision for the life of the mother."
(Kombiz Lavasany at The Right's Field has some lovely video footage, as well, of Rudy Giuliani in contortions that would make an acrobat blush.)
Even the New York Times has called Giuliani out on his "flexibility."
In 2007, Mr. Giuliani simply looks as if he wants to convince voters that no matter what his beliefs are, they should vote for him anyway because he’s prepared to put them aside.He said he believes in the right to own guns, but he would let the states decide how to regulate them. The other day he said he was for abortion rights and preened about his political courage. Then he refused to say whether states should spend public money on abortions or require a woman to view an ultrasound picture of her fetus before an abortion.
Giuliani isn't interested in protecting constitutional rights. Giuliani is interested getting the presidency by any means necessary, in remaking the world in his own image — a place with onion-thin skin, razor thin lips, authoritarian demeanor, and a leviathan of an ego. And we should all be very, very afraid of his candidacy.
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zed?
Guiliani is not going anywhere. Let’s talk about Gonzo.
I’m sorry — this is a great post … BUT I can hardly get past the gumby picture. ROFL! Perfect!
But at least he looks good in a skirt and pantyhose, right?
Fugg Rudy
Georgesimian @ 1
Yeah, I thought that, too, but the more I look, the more scared I get.
WASHINGTON (CNN) — White House insiders tell CNN that Attorney General Alberto Gonzales hurt himself during testimony before a Senate committee Thursday on the firing of eight U.S. attorneys.
watertiger @ 6
That’s the arousal that hasn’t happened yet talking. :P
Poor Gonzo- hurt himself–go have Georgie kiss it an make it all better!
Watertiger,
you rock.
love,
zen
rwcole @ 7
Translation: He shot himself in the foot and opened a major artery. The smell is expected to attract Democratic Sharks.
What do Rudy and a snowball in hell have in common?
ZENNURSE!!!!!!!
Here’s some more. Not the whole thing. I love this article. Not one source named. Bush and Al have to work it out. WTF is that?
OT-
If you’re still looking to see the Gonzoles hearing, C-SPAN 1 is replaying it at 12:01 AM EDT tonight. It runs 7 hours.
Did everyone catch McCain’s hit song–Bomb,Bomb Iran?
The guy’s got talent—-
I play golf with a gooper who used to work with a lot of these goopers (defense job). He has always said that McCain is a huge idiot- maybe he’s right.
Remember, he provided thousands of pages of documents, so it’s all OK.
watertiger @ 13
hey, sweetie, good to see you!!
Dropped over at DR, the toast made me hungry.
see you tomorrow, gotta sleep
Gonzo says nothin improper occured- he didn’t have sex with those people- attorneys.
Does that make Judy — uhhhh, Pokey?
My favorite line of the day “It was like watchin em club a baby seal”.
Of all the Rethug prez wannabees, Giuliani is the one I least admire. They are all flawed,
(politically flawed, that is), so it is difficult to know who to root for.
In 2000, I wanted Bush to get the nomination
because it seemed to me that the American public would never vote for such a moron.
Now I don’t trust my judgment anymore.
I just hope to hell we get a candidate good enough that it doesn’t matter who the Repugs field.
Let morals be your guide. Vote Rudy/Newtie in ‘08. The balanced ticket.
“I don’t recall” 100 times! Every question started with, “As I remember it…” or some bullshit legal qualifier.
Was it Specter who said, “There’s no point in going on with this.” I was waiting for him to say “because you keep saying that you don’t know anything. Why don’t you just give us the papers we asked for and keep your mouth shut? Then you don’t have to remember anything.”
TeddySanFran @ 19
You said it, sweetheart, not me!! LOLOL!
conniptionfit @ 15
C-span 2 is showing it right now.
I like Matt Browner Hamlin’s description of Rudy:
The only reason Guiliani is doing well in the polls is because the stupid Repugs hate their options because they all suck and they’ve all platformed on being Bush’s poodle.
I’M GUMBY, DAMMIT!
Georgesimian @ 23
Now you know where Sampson learned that “I recall remembering in my mind” bullsh*t.
Watertiger! Rudy s*cks! Rudy s*cks! Rudy s*cks!
Wasn’t it Specter who said, if he comes down here and says “I don’t recall”, there’s going to be trouble? So where’s the trouble?
rwcole @
21
and that was from folks who normally front for the administration…
It was really quite astounding how little information Gonzales actually provided.
I believe the word that best describes it is “none”.
rwcole @
12
They can both beat Hillary Clinton.
watertiger @ 34
Abu’s motto: I know you understand what you think I said but I’m not sure you understand what I meant to say.
Oklahoma kiddo @
23
good thing the hearings put me off my food, nothing to contribute here
watertiger @ 34
No, he provided the information that he’s guilty and he’s not talking and he’s not helping Congress get anything that’s going to incriminate his sugardaddy GeorgeW.
PLovering @ 35
Actually it is the reverse. Which is why Rudy DIDN’T run for the senate against Hillary. He was going to lose. Badly lose.
I’ve always said that the reason that Guiliani was so visible on 9/11 was because he had nowhere else to go. He insisted against all logic and advise on putting his emergency command center in the WTC!
IRT Rudy, I don’t think there’s any chance he gets the nomination except….who does??? The Repubs have yet to come up with a viable nominee.
Can’t see McCain getting it. He’s really lost his mind.
Romney will self destruct. There’s not much there anyway…except he’s only been married once.
Newt???? Way too much baggage.
So, who???
Damn that Macaca tape.
Rudy is another draft dodger from the Vietnam era. Which would be fine, except he’s a Republican and Iraq war supporter.
Actually it is the reverse. Which is why Rudy DIDN’T run for the senate against Hillary. He was going to lose. Badly lose.
Which is why if it came down to them again, I wonder if he’d implode, like he did during his Senate run.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 42
No actually the republics are quite good at nominating chickenhawks.
My favorite part was near the end, when someone
(Leahy?) asked him point-blank if Bush ever told him he wanted a particular attorney fired.
Abu actually said he didn’t recall that ever happening. How on earth can you not remember if the President told you to fire someone?
Today’s hearings simply confirmed my crush on Sheldon Whitehouse.
Abu’s motto “I kconniptionfit @ 40
Guiliani wasn’t the best mayor, but he dealt with 9/11 in a calm and decisive way. Bush flew the coop. Didn’t show up until 8PM. He was flying around while Cheney was trying to shoot down passenger planes and Rummy had the map of Iraq out.
Is Rudy and Hillary that far apart in their support for the Iraq war?
watertiger @ 43
He will implode, no matter who he runs against. His arrogance and basic inability to stand it when someone pushes back. In that respect, he’s just like the Chimpenfuhrer. Someone from the press, or whomever the dem candidate is or even one of the other republics during the primary, someone will press his buttons and he will go off and the entire country will see the Rudy that NY’ers came to know and detest.
He was also responsible for failing to provide the firefighters with adequate radio equipment. Double-edged sword all the time with this guy.
I did not have time to watch the hearings or read the live blogging earlier today, but I am watching the hearings replayed now. I have two questions:
1) has anybody seen a particularly good and succinct analysis of what happened at the hearings today?
2) From the little I’ve heard, Abu’s defense seems to be “It’s all Mr. Sampson’s fault, it was his idea, he made the decisions without my knowledge, and I didn’t have a clue what was going on.” Is that accurate?
watertiger @ 50
Come on. That wasn’t his fault. Give him credit where it’s due. He’s got plenty of other flaws.
Chimpy was lucky there were no camera’s following him around on Air Force One with a pee-pee stain in his pants as the plane flew from one base to another looking for a safe place for the Codpiece in Chief.
-GSD
neurophius @ 51
Pretty much that’s it. There are about 8 threads down below from the live blogging today with approx 300 or so comments per thread. But Christy’s live blogging probably is the most succint yet accurate.
neurophius @ 51
Dahlia Lithwick’s
“1) has anybody seen a particularly good and succinct analysis of what happened at the hearings today?”
NYT has a decent article with a great photo: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04…..nz.html?hp
Was Guiliani involved in the decision to declare the Ground Zero site safe for rescue workers even though it was still toxic? I know the EPA was involved in that, but what about Rudy?
Come on. That wasn’t his fault. Give him credit where it’s due. He’s got plenty of other flaws.
He didn’t back the firefighters when they pushed for more $$ for their communications systems. Okay, he couldn’t have, in the words of Condi Rice, anticipated that people would hijack planes and fly them into the WTC. I’ll give you that.
neurophius @ 51
That was my take more or less
neurophius @ 56
Yup.
Isn’t this guy currently the President?
like a broken record: Rudy can fail
2) From the little I’ve heard, Abu’s defense seems to be “It’s all Mr. Sampson’s fault, it was his idea, he made the decisions without my knowledge, and I didn’t have a clue what was going on.” Is that accurate?
And don’t forget:
3) “Mistakes were made”
What foreign policy foisted on him? He responded to a crisis. He cleaned up (and admittedly, well) a HORRIFIC mess. His response did not include foreign policy because he was a mayor.
Rudy has NO foreign policy experience. Not that he cares: Like Bush he doesn’t believe in foreign policy. We CANNOT afford four more years of the same. I hope to GOD he isn’t elected.
Helen @ 63
LOL
watertiger @ 58
Look, I don’t want to defend Guiliani too much, but he was there when Bush wasn’t. I’m sure he didn’t get any memo that read “planes to attack WTC”. He may suck, but on that day, he stood up to the plate. There’s no reason to belittle that. Anyway, the guy doesn’t have a chance.
Lettuce @ 60
Get this Democratic mover and shakers. Many of us want a clear distinction between the Demo and Repub nominees for prez. Especially on things like the war, health care, environmental safeguards, labor issues (not the DLC brand here), choice, education, judicial matters, diplomacy, the Middle East, no unprovoked wars, and the list goes on. What does it take to convince you guys we support a choice, not business as usual.
Look, I don’t want to defend Guiliani too much, but he was there when Bush wasn’t. I’m sure he didn’t get any memo that read “planes to attack WTC”. He may suck, but on that day, he stood up to the plate. There’s no reason to belittle that. Anyway, the guy doesn’t have a chance.
I’m not belittling the fact that he stuck around. He provided comfort and information to a lot of people. My point is that he simply wasn’t the swashbuckling superhero everyone makes him out to be.
watertiger @ 58
The problem with the radios for firefighters was revealed by the first WTC bombing in ‘93. It was a major action item, necessary for the efficient and effective functioning of the emergency responders. It certainly was Rudy’s fault that the problem had not been corrected by the next bombing of the WTC.
The worst thing this country needs is Giulliani after 8 years of Bush. Honestly, this can’t happen. It is very possible that he could be much worse than W.
And no surprise, from wiki:
Giuliani did not serve in the military during the Vietnam War era; he received a student deferment while at Manhattan College and another while at NYU Law. Upon graduation from the latter in 1968, he was classified as “1-A”, available for military service. He applied for a deferment but was rejected. In 1969, MacMahon wrote a letter to Giuliani’s draft board, asking that he be reclassified as 2-A, civilian occupation deferment, because Giuliani, who was a law clerk for MacMahon, was an essential employee. The deferment was granted. In 1970, Giuliani received a high draft lottery number; he was not called up for service although by then he had been reclassified 1-A.[15][16]
neurophius @ 51
Here’s the segment that sums up the day for me.
Sen. Cardin asks Gonzales why they have investigated voter fraud issues, but they have not investigated voter intimidation cases.
Gonzales first claims he can relate to poor minorities and then explains, falsely, that the department follows guidelines to prevent anybody from being intimidated from voting by the DOJ investigations into voter fraud.
That’s the day in a nutshell… try to seem sympathetic, evade answering the question by talking about something else, and say whatever sounds like it could be a legitimate reason for keeping the job.
It worked well enough for the president to be happy, but anybody with a fully-functioning brain saw right through it.
Let’s get something straight here. We all knew it was toxic, we didn’t need Rudy or the EPA to tell us that.
Geez, ya know how many flourescant lights there were in those buildings? The Asbestos? The steel dust? The PCB’s from the electric generators?
We went in anyway. Our friends and families were in there.
What pisses all of us off is the fact that 6 years later we still have lies and half truths where the answers and the accountability should be.
Phuque the dust.
What exactly does being a centrist consist of? A little bit Republican and a little bit Democratic? And a pinch of moderation, with some lefty and righty tokenism thrown in?
Watching the rerun on CSPAN…
Abu: “Lam’s performance was blah, blah, blah…and that why I decided to make a change”
From a list he never saw, knew nothing about
Subway Serenade @ 72
The smell alone curled my hair. And I was a mile upwind.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 74
Gee, sounds like Dean Broder. But you forgot that centrist is good at cocktail parties.
Please pardon my reversion back to a previous thread–
People for the American Way did a fine job live-blogging the Gonzo hearing today. They also have a “Gonzales must go” toolkit we can use just in case Gonzales doesn’t resign and Bush-Rove want to continue to use him as a shield. I guess Rove figures its better for folks to batter Gonzo than to batter himself, which may be coming next.
And speaking of what’s coming next– Will Miers be next on the hot seat? She’ll appear before he does, I betcha.
Bob in HI
Oklahoma kiddo @ 73
It’s like being a little bit country, and a little bit rock ‘n roll.
Subway Serenade @ 73
Exactly. It smelled like a burnt ballpoint pen. For a month.
Why the fuck are we in Iraq?
watertiger @ 69
I’m sorry, but what guiliani did on 9/11 is the *least* that we should expect from our leaders in the face of a national emergency. The only reason that he stands out is because he did his duty, not that he did it extraordinarily well.
Do the repubs have anyone that really could survive a whole campaign in the whole country?
Bob Schacht @ 78
Miers in the hotseat. That would be great! What did Bush call her? Puss in Boots? Something in Boots.
conniptionfit @ 81
He stood out because Bush went AWOL. As I recall.
OFF TOPIC
I was at school for all but the last 20 minutes of the Gonzo hearings. What is the best thing to read so I know what happened?
A nice dossier on Giuliani
http://www.rhsager.com/blog/wp…..iberal.doc
McLEAN, Va. – A judge’s ruling on Cho Seung-Hui’s mental health should have barred him from purchasing the handguns he used in the Virginia Tech massacre, according to federal regulations. But it was unclear Thursday whether anybody had an obligation to inform federal authorities about Cho’s mental status because of loopholes in the law that governs background checks.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..ng_weapons
Finally
/end of three day rant
watertiger @ 50
And he stopped the firefighters from hunting for the remains of their comrades lost on The Pile. NYC firefighters will follow Rudy everywhere and tell this story, which ends with their brothers’ ashes filling potholes.
Watertiger says:
Can someone do a caricature or Photoshop of Rudy as Il Duce, ol’ Benito Mussolini himself? There’s a resemblance there on more than one level, no?
I have seen Rudy depicted as Hitler, but Benito is a closer fit I think. Hitler was a global menace but Mussolini was just a tin-horn dictator. So is Rudy, the best weapon against whom is ridicule, as this post shows.
if the consequences of wingnut egotistical, self-absorbed, authoritarian bastardom weren’t so horrific the entertainment value of a ghouliani preznitsee would be tempting.
ghouliani is a megalomaniac of the highest order. Watching his ego crash, slash, and burn with the rest of the right wing debauchery would be something the likes of which the world may not have yet witnessed and may never witness (hopefully).
But alas, humanity can ill afford the collateral damage resulting from the clashing of such monumental insipid nastiness and egomaniacal menace.
.
By refusing to campaign with Rudy, his son sent a bold message to voters that he’s willing to selflessly step aside and let his Dad focus completely on the campaign, because a Guiliani Presidency is that important to him.
The father-son bond is undeniable.
Look, this lady’s using the Gonzo defense. Way to sent an example, Gonzo…
Snarkassandra @
85
short form: Dahlia Lithwick column at slate. DoverBitch has link in a comment somewhere above or NY Times.
Long form: Christy did 8 threads of live blogging with apporx 300 or so comments per thread. :})
Snarkassandra @ 82
No.
This has been another edition of simple answers to simple questions.
The only good thing about Rudy is he can take down a building in a couple of hours.
Apparently some students got together for a The Gonzo drinking game. Everytime Gonzo says “I don’t recall” or “I don’t remember”, you have to drink. Now two of them are in the hospital with alcohol poisoning. They didn’t make it til lunch.
shootings were made
Georgesimian @ 95
Is that a real story?
ccmask @ 94
Corrected.
watertiger @
76
The first station I played after 911 was in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn. The dust from downtown was heavy in the air conditioning systems of the trains, and was deposited in the stations whenever they opened the doors. You could see it billowing out from the vents.
I was at Wall Street the day they finally put the fire out. The subway smelled of the dust till Spring.
Even these days when I play Rector Street, two blocks away, the smell arises as the reconstruction crews go mucking about in the many sub basements beneath the pit.
watertiger @
43
We could use whether he did or not as a test for the eternal recurrence.
atrios ’splains it all rather succinctly
Snarkassandra @ 97
As I recall.
If Rudy is nominated and faces Hillary, all she has to do is make sure she is wearing pants when they face each other in the debates, thus leaving Republicans hopelessly confused as to which person is their candidate. /*snark
The first station I played after 911 was in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn. The dust from downtown was heavy in the air conditioning systems of the trains, and was deposited in the stations whenever they opened the doors. You could see it billowing out from the vents.
Poor Brooklyn. They were directly downwind.
71 times. I don’t recall. From the guy who is supposed to be running the DOJ. Even if it were true – especially if it were true – there’s something seriously wrong with that. Don’t you think?
Phule @ 103
Whoops, fixed. >_
Rudy deeply believes in community outreach programs, and he proves it by providing his campaign contributors with no-bid Government contracts.
Dahlia Lithwick’s Slate article includes Sheldon Whitehouse’s damning chart.
Georgesimian @ 104
There was a definite drop-off after the lunch break. His “coaches” must have realized how much worse it made him look.
between the “I don’t recalls” and the Presidential “The American people need to understand…”
Alberto Gonzales hospitalized with multiple moonbat bites.
-GSD
WASHINGTON – Strange things sometimes come out of President Bush’s mouth. “Polls just go poof.” “Remember the rug?”
ADVERTISEMENT
When Bush went to Ohio on Thursday to talk about terrorism, he ended up musing about marriage and chicken-plucking plants, the agony of death and his Oval Office rug, which resembles a sunburst.
About his legacy, Bush said historians are still assessing George Washington, the nation’s first leader. “My attitude is, if they’re still writing about (number) one, 43 doesn’t need to worry about it.”
On being married: “A good marriage is really good after serving together in Washington, D.C.”
Maybe the president just felt like jabbering at the town hall-style event in Tipp City, Ohio. He began talking about terrorism and ended 90 minutes later after chattering about everything from life after the White House to Vietnam War and the brutal Khmer Rouge regime.
Some highlights:
_”Politics comes and goes, but your principles don’t. And everybody wants to be loved — not everybody. … You never heard anybody say, `I want to be despised, I’m running for office.’”
_”The best thing about my family is my wife. She is a great first lady. I know that sounds not very objective, but that’s how I feel. And she’s also patient. Putting up with me requires a lot of patience.”
_”There are jobs Americans aren’t doing. … If you’ve got a chicken factory, a chicken-plucking factory, or whatever you call them, you know what I’m talking about.”
_”There are some similarities, of course” between Iraq and Vietnam. “Death is terrible.”
_”I’ve been in politics long enough to know that polls just go poof at times.”
As he has before, Bush told the story about how his first presidential decision was to pick a rug for the Oval Office, a task he quickly cast to his wife. He told her to make sure the rug reflected optimism “because you can’t make decisions unless you’re optimistic that the decisions you make will lead to a better tomorrow.”
Later, when he talked about his hope for succeeding in Iraq, Bush said, “Remember the rug?”
watertiger @
105
I live in Staten Island, and earlier that year there was a fire at a chemical plant in Jersey that made the whole island smell like bug spray. But no one here will ever forget the smell of the towers.
GSD @ 111
Fixed.
Watertiger – you have set the bar rather high with this launch of your RudyWatch – fabulous
hey Gonzoholics – was Schumer actually overheard making reference to the Indian Affairs Comm. docs ?!?!? (off mike, end of a break)
omg TeddySF, – thanks!
dakine01 @
39
On Hardball, August 2003, Rudi will torch Hillary by 17 points in Senate race.
Rudi is the Repug candidate for one reason only: He can win New York State.
upon further scrutiny of rudy – he doesnt come off so hot – poor radio communications security dep’t placed in destroyed building – and excuse me but he was doing what any mayor is supposed to do – his m’effing job. and after the tragedy he sent officers into harms way knowing i believe the air was toxic…. what a piece of work he is! gumby has more character than rudy will ever have IMHO…
Proof that Bush is really bothered:
-”Politics comes and goes, but your principles don’t. And everybody wants to be loved — not everybody. … You never heard anybody say, `I want to be despised, I’m running for office.’”
Chimpy knows that he is loathed and is taking solace in the fact that maybe someday in the future he won’t be so loathed.
-GSD
Rudy.
Is a loser.
Lets begin.
New Yorkers hated your guts for most of your 2 terms as mayor. I should know. I am one.
You failed to establish terrorist protections for NYCity throughout the 90’s as required by the 93′ bombing commission.
You failed to co-ordinate between the police and fire depts for all of the 90’s as required also by the commission.
You attacked coffee vendors,frankfurter vendors,street vendors.
You squelched civil liberties and were positively loathsome to the press.
You left New York with tens of BILLIONS in debt while whoring city real estate to anti-union and anti labor businesses.
Before 9/11 you were parceling out WTC property to your crony fuck sponsors in real estate.
Your a pathetic joke Rudy and when the truth starts coming out in the next few months about your wretched tenure as NY mayor and the hocus pocus of 9/11 from FOX cameras, then they will laugh and
roll their eyes- will realize what a complete fuckin waste of time you are.
Just read WAYNE BARRETT’S superb book,Grand Illusion, on Rudy’s craven incompetance leading up to 9/11. A primer for everyone outside New York who isn’t fully aware of Rudy’s shitty boilerplate temperment and politics.
Better yet, dig up Bob Herbert’s utterly revealing pieces on Giuliani from the 90’s.
Jimmy Breslin calls him a “loser”. You can look this up easy enuf-I just don’t have the link……
OT
“Our sex is the bestest evah!”
http://www.crooksandliars.com/…..d-scandal/
When yer down and out- feeling small- remember the rug- and the idiot who picked it!
cbl @ 102
A matter of definition then. Quite sensible. And inflexibly flexible too, I gather. ;0)
TeddySanFran @ 108:
Loved this bit from Lithwick’s piece:
His face, for a sustained period of almost seven hours, is a perfect mask of bemused puzzlement and earnest seriousness. Clearly, the one thing he has practiced for two weeks is the face. But the rest of his tactics are dubious.
and yet tweety cant kiss rudy’s ass i mean ring enough
Boca Raton Mayor Steven Abrams Endorses Rudy Giuliani
Steven Abrams was first elected Mayor of Boca Raton in March, 2001. Abrams received the Distinguished Service Medal from the Israel National Police for his leadership during the first bioterrorist attack in the United States when anthrax was discovered at the AMI building in October 2001. Mayor Abrams has been voted “Best City Official” each year since 2002 by the readers of the Boca Raton Times. Prior to moving to Florida, Mayor Abrams served in the White House as law clerk to the Counsel to President Reagan and current Chief Justice John Roberts.
http://www.joinrudy2008.com/news/pr/143
The decider and the one decision he is most proud of- a fuckin rug!!!!
rwcole @ 125
Oh yeah? Well Lindsey Graham got 5 rugs for $5 in a market in Baghdad!
watertiger @ 110
Didn’t Magic-Bullet mention they’d had lunch together?
Georgesimian @
92
Don’t make fun of her. She was abused, physically and sexually (or so she claims, and I believe her.) The day she shot him, things had reached a crisis point, apparently. But let’s leave it to the Jury. I think they convicted her of manslaughter rather than murder, so they must have bought the idea that there were extenuating circumstances.
Bob in HI
Gonzales told the panel that if he is confirmed, he would no longer solely represent the White House.
“I will represent the United States of America and its people,” he said. “I understand the differences between the two roles. In the former, I have been privileged to advise the president and his staff.
“In the latter, I would have a far broader responsibility: to pursue justice for all the people of our great nation; to see that the laws are enforced in a fair and impartial manner for all Americans.”
http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOL…..index.html
i think rudy will further shred whats left of the constitution – he has no love for civil rights
I’m done with Chris Matthews. He spits al over himself and he’s too gross to watch.
Abu: “I serve to pleasure the President.”
PLovering @ 116 says:
Uh, hate to disappoint you, but Rudy dropped out of the Senate race against Hillary in Y2K, where he was down in the polls by about the same number you’re quoting. Since Hillary has been re-elected to the Senate in 2006, your argument is moot. There was no election with either party occuring in 2003.
And people in New York state KNOW Rudy and he could not carry the state, no matter his or your fantasies.
Anyone ever watch the movie Cold Comfort Farm? I’d like to nominate Robert Posts child.
Cozumel @ 130
Yet I recall him saying “my client” in reference to President Pissypants, at one of his not-sworn appearances before Magic-Bullet’s JComm….
Chimpy is looking for a magic carpet ride because no one likes him.
He’s been spotted dancing by himself on Pickles sunburst rug singing to himself…….
Cue the band……
-GSD
From Rude Pundit, re the VA Tech shootings and the prez wannabes reactions thereto:
I LOVE that. Reptilian is precisely what the f**k I’d say he is, if I didn’t respect reptiles too much.
I think he’s the most dangerous of all of them…..because deep down he’s sicker than that shooter.
One benefit of Rudy winning the GOP nomination is that the Theocrats might split off. Imagine having Rudy AND Brownback running for the Presidency in the general election.
Alternatively, Rudy could win the GOP nomination and lose the Presidency, ensuring the GOP’s reign as a Regional Southern Party for a generation.
All in all, I am most excited about Rudy winning the nomination. Fred Thompson, now I am scared of him.
oddmommy @ 137
I kinda wish he still had that awful combover.
Cozumel @ 59
TPM has all the highlights and lowlights.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c…..013723.php
Weird and getting weirder.
J. Steven Griles marries his co-conspirator.
I will not testify against my beloved husband!
-GSD
He- We gonna have that nice paisan in the White House?—-Mama Mia!
I do not want Obama or Hillary for my next prez.
I would love to see my dream ticket of Gore/Pelosi. Neither of which of course are running. I’d take Edwards or Kucinich. And some others though.
TeddySanFran @ 139
Fred Thompson actually has some political accomplishments besides looking like a politician and being an actor. He became a part time actor because he came across well on TV during the H2Ogate hearings where he was Howard Baker’s lead staffer. I thnk Richard Ben-Veniste was his counterpart on Ervin’s staff
Rudy has mob connections. Think Kerik.
Cozumel @ 130
Another ironic quote from Gone-zo’s confirmation hearing in that article:
“You’ve acted, I think, with the highest honor as White House counsel,” said Sen. Orrin Hatch, a Utah Republican. “I stand ready and willing to help you.”
Today, I thought Orrin was gonna ask Abu what he was doing later so he could show Abu what the Hatch Act REALLY means.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 145
Think his DAD!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 146
Think his old man as watertiger said.
Teddy,
It’s gonna be a donnybrook for him to get there. Old Rev. SpongeBob Dobson said that Fast Freddy isn’t a “real” Christian.
Civil war.
-GSD
probably the best evidence that Rudy is a fascist is that after 911 he seriously proposed putting off the 2001 mayoralty elections and extending his term an additional 3 months. What a pathetic anti-democratic putz!!!!!!!!!!!!
As I said elsewhere, Hatch totally sucked the chrome off Gonzales’ trailer hitch today.
Moderators? Too rough?
Note ta Gonzo from Do Little-
Hell- go ahead and resign- I did!
Part on, and part off this thread, but
Question: What is Rudy’s stand on the number one issue Americans will be thinking about in 2008?
Hint: The issue is Iraq War belligerence.
This is really funny!! ie; How obvious is it that GOoPeRs are really, really out of touch… From ThinkProgress:
Oklahoma kiddo @ 143
those are the same ones i want. or feingold.
dakine01 @ 134
Uh, hate to disappoint you, but Rudy dropped out of the Senate race against Hillary in Y2K, where he was down in the polls by about the same number you’re quoting. Since Hillary has been re-elected to the Senate in 2006, your argument is moot. There was no election with either party occuring in 2003.
And people in New York state KNOW Rudy and he could not carry the state, no matter his or your fantasies.
Latest Time Poll and American Research Poll have Rudi up over Hillary by 4 & 6 points respectively.
dakine01 @ 149
Yep. I think more than one member of his family has “connections”.
Cozumel @ 130
HOLY ZOMBIES!! Is this guy for real?
Where the hell has he been for some 2 1/2 years?
WAY off topic:
Nation’s Wealthiest One Percent Demands Minority Status
Oklahoma kiddo @ 143
I am with you OKK.
watertiger @
152
I just called it giving him reach arounds. :})
watertiger @ 152
Is that like sucking the balls off a pool table?
Bad Coz ; )
four points is a statistical tie- and the election is nearly two years away—means about as much as a fortune cookie.
oh yeah Teddy – a little values on values action – Dobson has already selected Gingrich and his spawn, Tony Perkins is flirting big time with Rudy, and Richard Land disagrees with both their choices and is tepid at best for Romney
uh-huh, go ahead, mix it up boys
My friend David said the translation for all that is “giving him a Lewinsky”
rwcole @ 163
And people out in flyover country don’t really know a thing about Rudy. Yet. He’ll drop.
GSD @ 142
See, Graham Greene “Brighton Rock”.
i’m still holding out for feingold on a ticket preferably as the pres candidate but on the ticket – at this point none of the dems appeal to me – the woman who most fits the bill right now is speaker pelosi… at least she speaks to bushco without fear
Orrin’s “leading questions” of Gonzales today was so over the top it was almost lewd.
juslin @ 167
SNARKASSANDRA for pres 2032!!!
If the Dems nominate Hillary the uber-breeder, I’m voting for one of my cats.
It takes a village, my ass.
SnarKassandra @ 165
You’re not supposed to know about things like that! LOL 707! :})
Way to early to get very excited about presidential politics. Half of em’ll be dead or in jail by the time we have the election.
Volunteered for five weeks. Drove supply trucks to wtc site. Air was terrible. Where did EPA put their air sensors, Central Park? I don’t agree with this war or admin. When talk radio hosts said I was not a patriot I knew something was really wrong. Media covering tracks for these bandits. Scary times folks. I read here all the time and I salute you one and all.
watertiger @
50
In Barrett’s book, the authors describe a scene fairly early in the disastrous morning when Giuliani conferred in person out on West Street with senior police and fire commanders. That conference would have been a good time, and as events would have it there would be none better, for an ad hoc communications network to be set up between the two service commanders, simply by having them share some physical equipment. Had they done that, the fire commander (IIRC that man was killed) would have been able to hear the PD all clear warning and relay it to his personnel. Extrapolating from the much higher proportion of FDNY casualities over NYPD, , it seems safe to say that at least scores of lives could have been saved.
Now, I actually agree with Barrett and his co-author that Giuliani shouldn’t be made to bear the whole burden of the day for this, though the inability of the radio systems to cross-communicate was well-known to him. That was a horrible, horrible situation of multiple unfolding calamities. But it’s a failure of leadership nevertheless, and in particular a failure to understand the basics of the structure one is in charge of. Can anyone imagine either of the service commanders not knowing what his units on the scene are responsible for? Well Giuliani was the commander over both of them. Certainly the reputation for heroic leadership that has grown up around him leaves no room for such a basic lapse.
I just dug up a Voice article in which Barrett describes the West Street conference and lays out this leadership aspect.
rwcole @ 162
you so funny rwcole
Turns out that Gonzo’s “preparation” for today was thirty three bottles of black hair dye..
Preparation H- black label.
Didn’t get to see very much of Tortureboy’s hearing today, but did anyone tell him that he’s getting a performance review TODAY, just like the one DOJ gave to Carol Lam and friends, and Abu, you’d better start using your real estate training right quick?
Seems like such an obvious comeback to all his nonsense, but I never heard it. If people with stellar perfomance records are getting forced out for “performance,” why the hell would we keep someone who constantly admits to many, many MAJOR mistakes year after year?!?
On Gonzo and whether Our Benighted Emperor will win the game of chicken – “Call off your dogs, and I’ll give you this chicken to pluck.”..
Conason at Salon puts a “punto” on the thing to do:
Or…. Impeach this bonehead and drag it on for 18 months. It is the gift Bush deserves which keeps on giving.
bluejeansntshirt @ 173
welcome bluejeansntshirt Thanks for all your help at the WTC.
lolo
Senators whacked Gonzo around pretty good today. Some of the goopers were hesitant at first- and were holdin back- but once they got a good WHaCK in- they discovered that they liked it and whacked away like everyone else. Fore long- everyone was whackin but Gonzo- who just couldn’t get into the spirit.
bonkers @
179
Coburn, wing-nut, OK did, if you can believe it. Said Abu should be held to the same standards of management that he was supposed to have held the fired attorneys and had obviously failed.
dakine01 @ 183
Wow. No cocktail weenies for Tommy at the next RNC shindig.
rwcole @
182
All but Hatch. I guess he really does want the job and probably didn’t want to seem like piling on.
Guitar_Playing_Bastard @ 171
I just don’t get it. If some 40% to 50% of the left half of the political spectrum can’t stand Hillary, how in the hell does she figure she can get 51% or the vote?
The Repugs are stone silent on her, just hoping for the Dems to lead with their easiest victim.
The New York Times is shooting us all in the foot because they obviously give her all the faux credibility she is ever going to muster. The rest of the United States is not going to “hold their nose” and vote for her, over Guliani.. or McCain or Romney. She is completely delusional.
bonkers @ 183
yeah, i was surprised that even Coburn couldn’t muster the energy to lead the witness.
Hatch lead the witness to the Kool-Aid vat.
-GSD
Thanks for the greeting lolo. People cheered us for simply delivering equipment, really makes you really misty. I read everything here everyday, and I know true patriots when I see them. Never back down, never.
watertiger @ 187
Coburn was far and away the biggest surprise to me. Specter, Graham, Grassley, Sessions, and Kyl all sounded very sad and disappointed, almost like dealing with a child they had to punish but didn’t want to. But Coburn was flat out “Hey, I like you as a person but you screwed the pooch this time and have to go.”
bluejeansntshirt @ 188
Friend of mine gave up his job to become an EMT after he volunteered down at the site. It was a transcendental experience for him.
Let’s now forget one of Gonzo’s favorite comments today: “I spoke overly broad.”
Here’s my suggestion: Firings were made.
just got an email with this Coburn quote:
bluejeansntshirt @ 188
Please comment more often. You have a lot of good things to add to the conversation. We get crazy sometimes but it is fun and there is much love and understanding.
lolo
dakine01 @
166
The people in “flyover country” on Obama: He’ll grow on you.
The same people on Hillary: She’ll grow on you… like toe jam… She’s already grown on you too much, and you just want her to go away.
lolo @
194
What lolo says. :})
“Lemme ’splain somethin’ to you, Lucy, uh, I mean Seanators…”
Did anybody see the vid where Gonzo told Senator Feinstein, “Senator, you obviously didn’t read the whole thing.”? Que huevos!
rwcole said
He told her to make sure the rug reflected optimism “because you can’t make decisions unless you’re optimistic that the decisions you make will lead to a better tomorrow.”
____________________________
Does Dubya really believe that he makes decisions that will lead to a better tomorrow?
I think that he really does believe it, cuz Dick and Karl and Tom Delay and Wolfie and Condi told him so. And they’re pretty smart.
watertiger @ 192
I think this is going to push him over the edge.
Watertiger excellent post as always.
karen allen @ 197
Abu was toting a pair today all right. He was barely concealing his contempt in some of his responses. Not a good thing to be p*ssing off the senate judiciary committee.
Hi watertiger, I think I know that feeling too. Your friend sounds like my kind of friend.
Cue the music, Queen’s Another One Bites the Dust.
FBI raids office of GOP Renzi’s father.
Renzi resigns intel post.
-GSD
Puesto @
186
What is an uber-breeder? Does it mean she has lots of kids?
watertiger @ 193
Occasionally, infrequently, perhaps, my fellow Oklahoman, Mr. Coburn gets it right. I have written several emails to Coburn disagreeing with him on this and that. And he always answers in handwritten letters.
GSD @
202
DAY-UHM!!!
I was not watching – only listening. Replying to Coburn he sounded ready to cry.
bluejeans, are you in the fire service?
GSD @ 201
Priceless OMG this is huge and funny because of Gonzo’s demise. WOW
watertiger @ 193
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/…..-gonzales/
As he has before, Bush told the story about how his first presidential decision was to pick a rug for the Oval Office,
See? See?
lolo @ 207
[Nelson Muntz]
HAAAAH HAAAH!
[/Nelson Muntz]
I’d like to stay,but I’m all gonzoed out. Need sleep. Thanks for the greetings and have a have a good evening all. Read ya in the morning.
T-Rex in da hizzy!
LoudounLib @ 206
Close. retired blue shirt.
SnarKassandra @ 203
Hell, I don’t know. It must be something that gave Bill the Wander-lust, though. I’m not sure I really want to have a look-see and learn.
You?
WASHINGTON (Map, News) – Attorney General Alberto Gonzales confirmed Thursday that former Arizona U.S. Attorney Paul Charlton was fired after policy clashes that the Justice Department considered “poor judgment.”
Democrats in Arizona have suggested Charlton was fired on Dec. 7 because his office had opened investigations before the 2006 election into a land deal by Rep. Rick Renzi, R-Ariz., and a camping trip retired Rep. Jim
http://www.examiner.com/a-6841…..ment_.html
bluejeansntshirt @
212
good night bluejeanshirt -
glad you jumped in the Lake.
please come back soon.
ccmask @ 216
Breaking, from Roll Call:
These Republicans must be setting some sort of record in keeping the FBI busy. Wasn’t Doolittle ’s office jumped the other day?
Hmmm…
bluejeansntshirt @ 214
Ah, just wondering :-) IAFF 2068 here
new thread upstairs….
LoudonLib, goodnite n Peace.
Subway Serenade @ 113
I will never forget that smell. Re Guiliani, was there not some controversy about the command center…where was it again?