I got home this evening to find that I'm not the only one who's bothered by the Giuliani run for President. Michael Tomasky's cover story for the latest dead-tree edition of The American Prospect magazine is titled: "If You Knew Rudy Like I Know Rudy..." Ever since I decided to follow Giuliani's campaign, exposés about the "real" Rudy Giuliani have been leaping out at me. Some favorable (Newsweek, anything from Faux Noise), some not so much (Mother Jones, The American Prospect). The fact of the matter is, the rest of the country thinks they know "America's Mayor", but in truth, what they're seeing is the latest incarnation of the bendy doll that is Giuliani's political career.
A bit of an historical perspective is necessary, if you want to get at the heart of why a Giuliani presidency would be nothing short of disastrous. By historical, I mean before September 11, 2001, the day Giuliani was hoisted up on that pedestal for not running away from his job (unlike some leaders we know). Before 9/11, when he ran a scandal-ridden campaign against Hillary Clinton for the Senate, when he was shown to be a philandering and heartless sonofabitch to his family, when he praised the policemen who riddled Amadou Diallo's body with bullets, and oh, yes, when, in an effort to boost his flagging Senate campaign, he broke state laws by releasing the sealed juvenile delinquency records of Patrick Dorismond, another victim of trigger-happy cops. Why? In order to defame a corpse.
Rudy Giuliani has always relied on political opportunism . . . I mean, flexibility . . . to stay alive in the bloody-knuckled world of New York politics. Learning all he needed to know about the malleability of truth from his wiseguy ex-con father, Giuliani switched political affilations three times in ten years until he decided that "Republican" was the best description he could find for his personal ethos. He was certainly ambitious; he made it through law school and wound up as U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York. Yes, he worked through his unsubtle Oedipal complex by defrocking 5 mob bosses. He also pantsed Ivan Boesky and pulled the toupee off Michael Milken. So when the time came for his inevitable run for mayor, he already had the "tough on crime" part of his platform certified. It was the squishy social issues he struggled with.
As Tomasky notes in his article,
When Giuliani was mayor, did he really believe in abortion rights and gay rights and strict gun control laws and very liberal immigration policy? "That's a very, very tough question," says David Garth, the legendary New York political consultant who handled Giuliani's 1993 and '97 mayoral races. "My feeling was, the positions he took, he felt them. Whether he really felt them, I mean . . . I don't know."
Giuliani wanted to brand himself as a "social liberal," even if his feelings for gay rights or women's reproductive freedom were lukewarm, at best. Assuming that position got him what he wanted: votes. Unfortunately for the rest of us, he was setting up an internal tug-of-war when he tried to make those two ideas co-exist. Eventually, one side was going to win out. We New Yorkers know all about which side that was. JoAnn Wypijewski writes in the latest edition of Mother Jones [not yet available on line]:
[Rudy Giuliani] compares President Bush's escalation of the war in Iraq to his own big-fisted approach to New York, and suffers no harm for the implication of that admission: that he pursued a war on part of the city's population while the rest of us became inured to punishment, to brakes on free expression and policing as a way of life.
"Socially Liberal" Giuliani eventually created a near-police state, starting with the "Broken Windows" criminal justice theory that espouses cracking down on "quality of life" or "gateway" crimes. Sure, we were overjoyed that we didn't step out of our buildings in the morning to find men urinating on the steps or our front doors tagged with graffiti. But at what cost? Again, Mother Jones' Ms. Wypijewski:
Civil libertarians used to joke darkly that under Giuliani, New York became "a First Amendment-free zone." His policing fetish didn't just purge gang tags and porn houses; it closed public spaces to protest and led to a host of other efforts to quash dissent. Most of the latter were reversed in court, but the chill was on.
New Yorkers weren't particularly pleased that Giuliani had managed to alienate everyone except the "moneyed class" with his Big Brother approach to free speech or his ham-fisted handling of race relations. The Giuliani years were certainly disastrous for minorities, who, when they weren't taking 41 bullets the hard way or being sodomized with broomsticks, were blamed for everything from the existence of those ubiquitous squeegee men to the grindhouses and porn shops on the Deuce (aka 42nd St.).
Greg Sargent, horrified (and rightfully so) by Newsweek's cover story/whitewashing of Giuliani's history, characterizes the feeling in New York during the Reign of Big Brother:
Polls showed that while New York City residents did applaud the goals Rudy reached, majorities were decidedly opposed to his tactics. A New York Times poll in April of 2000, in the wake of the police shooting of Patrick Dorismond, found that 50% disapproved of Rudy's handling of crime, his signature issue, and concluded that "New York City residents have a decidedly negative view of Mr. Giuliani's handling of race relations." . . . . The discomfort New Yorkers felt with Rudy's tactics, as opposed to his results, go directly to the heart of questions about the man's character.
So you can understand why New Yorkers were a bit dubious about this "America's Mayor" horse turd when it sprang up. Yes, congratulations may have been in order because Giuliani held his shit together long enough to communicate important information to the general public. Many of us, however, saw Giuliani in the harsh light of day, not through the vaseline-smeared lens of a post-9/11 world. We jumped up and down and yelled, "No, no, no!" whenever somebody praised Rudy for how he turned Times Square into a haven of brightly-lit banality, because cleanliness came at the cost of personal liberties and freedom of speech.
Yesterday marked another morphing in Giuliani's campaign. Asked for his thoughts on the Supreme Court decision on "partial birth" abortions, Giuliani responded, "The Supreme Court reached the correct conclusion in upholding the congressional ban on partial birth abortion. I agree with it."
(Note the choice of words. "Correct." Not "right", but "correct". This is so that when he finds himself sinking in the polls amongst likely voters, he can point to this statement and say, "I was merely asserting that I thought the Supreme Court followed procedure correctly." Because Rudy is nothing if not morally, um, agile.)
As Media Matters points out,
in 2000, Giuliani said he agreed with President Clinton's veto of the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act of 1997, saying then -- in response to a question about whether if he, as a senator, would have "vote[d] with the president or against the president" -- that he would have "vote[d] to preserve the option for women." On the February 5 edition of Fox News' Hannity & Colmes, when Giuliani expressed support for the current law banning "partial-birth abortion," co-host Sean Hannity pressed him about the apparent reversal. Giuliani attempted to reconcile his two positions by stating that he supports such bans only when they contain a "provision for the life of the mother."
(Kombiz Lavasany at The Right's Field has some lovely video footage, as well, of Rudy Giuliani in contortions that would make an acrobat blush.)
Even the New York Times has called Giuliani out on his "flexibility."
In 2007, Mr. Giuliani simply looks as if he wants to convince voters that no matter what his beliefs are, they should vote for him anyway because he’s prepared to put them aside.He said he believes in the right to own guns, but he would let the states decide how to regulate them. The other day he said he was for abortion rights and preened about his political courage. Then he refused to say whether states should spend public money on abortions or require a woman to view an ultrasound picture of her fetus before an abortion.
Giuliani isn't interested in protecting constitutional rights. Giuliani is interested getting the presidency by any means necessary, in remaking the world in his own image -- a place with onion-thin skin, razor thin lips, authoritarian demeanor, and a leviathan of an ego. And we should all be very, very afraid of his candidacy.
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Guiliani is not going anywhere. Let’s talk about Gonzo.
I’m sorry — this is a great post … BUT I can hardly get past the gumby picture. ROFL! Perfect!
But at least he looks good in a skirt and pantyhose, right?
Fugg Rudy
Georgesimian @ 1
Yeah, I thought that, too, but the more I look, the more scared I get.
WASHINGTON (CNN) — White House insiders tell CNN that Attorney General Alberto Gonzales hurt himself during testimony before a Senate committee Thursday on the firing of eight U.S. attorneys.
watertiger @ 6
That’s the arousal that hasn’t happened yet talking. :P
Poor Gonzo- hurt himself–go have Georgie kiss it an make it all better!
Watertiger,
you rock.
love,
zen
rwcole @ 7
Translation: He shot himself in the foot and opened a major artery. The smell is expected to attract Democratic Sharks.
What do Rudy and a snowball in hell have in common?
ZENNURSE!!!!!!!
Here’s some more. Not the whole thing. I love this article. Not one source named. Bush and Al have to work it out. WTF is that?
OT-
If you’re still looking to see the Gonzoles hearing, C-SPAN 1 is replaying it at 12:01 AM EDT tonight. It runs 7 hours.
Did everyone catch McCain’s hit song–Bomb,Bomb Iran?
The guy’s got talent—-
I play golf with a gooper who used to work with a lot of these goopers (defense job). He has always said that McCain is a huge idiot- maybe he’s right.
Remember, he provided thousands of pages of documents, so it’s all OK.
watertiger @ 13
hey, sweetie, good to see you!!
Dropped over at DR, the toast made me hungry.
see you tomorrow, gotta sleep
Gonzo says nothin improper occured- he didn’t have sex with those people- attorneys.
Does that make Judy — uhhhh, Pokey?
My favorite line of the day “It was like watchin em club a baby seal”.
Of all the Rethug prez wannabees, Giuliani is the one I least admire. They are all flawed,
(politically flawed, that is), so it is difficult to know who to root for.
In 2000, I wanted Bush to get the nomination
because it seemed to me that the American public would never vote for such a moron.
Now I don’t trust my judgment anymore.
I just hope to hell we get a candidate good enough that it doesn’t matter who the Repugs field.
Let morals be your guide. Vote Rudy/Newtie in ‘08. The balanced ticket.
“I don’t recall” 100 times! Every question started with, “As I remember it…” or some bullshit legal qualifier.
Was it Specter who said, “There’s no point in going on with this.” I was waiting for him to say “because you keep saying that you don’t know anything. Why don’t you just give us the papers we asked for and keep your mouth shut? Then you don’t have to remember anything.”
TeddySanFran @ 19
You said it, sweetheart, not me!! LOLOL!
conniptionfit @ 15
C-span 2 is showing it right now.
I like Matt Browner Hamlin’s description of Rudy:
The only reason Guiliani is doing well in the polls is because the stupid Repugs hate their options because they all suck and they’ve all platformed on being Bush’s poodle.
I’M GUMBY, DAMMIT!
Georgesimian @ 23
Now you know where Sampson learned that “I recall remembering in my mind” bullsh*t.
Watertiger! Rudy s*cks! Rudy s*cks! Rudy s*cks!
Wasn’t it Specter who said, if he comes down here and says “I don’t recall”, there’s going to be trouble? So where’s the trouble?
rwcole @
21
and that was from folks who normally front for the administration…
It was really quite astounding how little information Gonzales actually provided.
I believe the word that best describes it is “none”.
rwcole @
12
They can both beat Hillary Clinton.
watertiger @ 34
Abu’s motto: I know you understand what you think I said but I’m not sure you understand what I meant to say.
Oklahoma kiddo @
23
good thing the hearings put me off my food, nothing to contribute here
watertiger @ 34
No, he provided the information that he’s guilty and he’s not talking and he’s not helping Congress get anything that’s going to incriminate his sugardaddy GeorgeW.
PLovering @ 35
Actually it is the reverse. Which is why Rudy DIDN’T run for the senate against Hillary. He was going to lose. Badly lose.
I’ve always said that the reason that Guiliani was so visible on 9/11 was because he had nowhere else to go. He insisted against all logic and advise on putting his emergency command center in the WTC!
IRT Rudy, I don’t think there’s any chance he gets the nomination except….who does??? The Repubs have yet to come up with a viable nominee.
Can’t see McCain getting it. He’s really lost his mind.
Romney will self destruct. There’s not much there anyway…except he’s only been married once.
Newt???? Way too much baggage.
So, who???
Damn that Macaca tape.
Rudy is another draft dodger from the Vietnam era. Which would be fine, except he’s a Republican and Iraq war supporter.
Actually it is the reverse. Which is why Rudy DIDN’T run for the senate against Hillary. He was going to lose. Badly lose.
Which is why if it came down to them again, I wonder if he’d implode, like he did during his Senate run.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 42
No actually the republics are quite good at nominating chickenhawks.
My favorite part was near the end, when someone
(Leahy?) asked him point-blank if Bush ever told him he wanted a particular attorney fired.
Abu actually said he didn’t recall that ever happening. How on earth can you not remember if the President told you to fire someone?
Today’s hearings simply confirmed my crush on Sheldon Whitehouse.
Abu’s motto “I kconniptionfit @ 40
Guiliani wasn’t the best mayor, but he dealt with 9/11 in a calm and decisive way. Bush flew the coop. Didn’t show up until 8PM. He was flying around while Cheney was trying to shoot down passenger planes and Rummy had the map of Iraq out.
Is Rudy and Hillary that far apart in their support for the Iraq war?
watertiger @ 43
He will implode, no matter who he runs against. His arrogance and basic inability to stand it when someone pushes back. In that respect, he’s just like the Chimpenfuhrer. Someone from the press, or whomever the dem candidate is or even one of the other republics during the primary, someone will press his buttons and he will go off and the entire country will see the Rudy that NY’ers came to know and detest.
He was also responsible for failing to provide the firefighters with adequate radio equipment. Double-edged sword all the time with this guy.
I did not have time to watch the hearings or read the live blogging earlier today, but I am watching the hearings replayed now. I have two questions:
1) has anybody seen a particularly good and succinct analysis of what happened at the hearings today?
2) From the little I’ve heard, Abu’s defense seems to be “It’s all Mr. Sampson’s fault, it was his idea, he made the decisions without my knowledge, and I didn’t have a clue what was going on.” Is that accurate?
watertiger @ 50
Come on. That wasn’t his fault. Give him credit where it’s due. He’s got plenty of other flaws.
Chimpy was lucky there were no camera’s following him around on Air Force One with a pee-pee stain in his pants as the plane flew from one base to another looking for a safe place for the Codpiece in Chief.
-GSD
neurophius @ 51
Pretty much that’s it. There are about 8 threads down below from the live blogging today with approx 300 or so comments per thread. But Christy’s live blogging probably is the most succint yet accurate.
neurophius @ 51
Dahlia Lithwick’s
“1) has anybody seen a particularly good and succinct analysis of what happened at the hearings today?”
NYT has a decent article with a great photo: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04.....nz.html?hp
Was Guiliani involved in the decision to declare the Ground Zero site safe for rescue workers even though it was still toxic? I know the EPA was involved in that, but what about Rudy?
Come on. That wasn’t his fault. Give him credit where it’s due. He’s got plenty of other flaws.
He didn’t back the firefighters when they pushed for more $$ for their communications systems. Okay, he couldn’t have, in the words of Condi Rice, anticipated that people would hijack planes and fly them into the WTC. I’ll give you that.
neurophius @ 51
That was my take more or less
neurophius @ 56
Yup.
Isn’t this guy currently the President?
like a broken record: Rudy can fail
2) From the little I’ve heard, Abu’s defense seems to be “It’s all Mr. Sampson’s fault, it was his idea, he made the decisions without my knowledge, and I didn’t have a clue what was going on.” Is that accurate?
And don’t forget:
3) “Mistakes were made”
What foreign policy foisted on him? He responded to a crisis. He cleaned up (and admittedly, well) a HORRIFIC mess. His response did not include foreign policy because he was a mayor.
Rudy has NO foreign policy experience. Not that he cares: Like Bush he doesn’t believe in foreign policy. We CANNOT afford four more years of the same. I hope to GOD he isn’t elected.
Helen @ 63
LOL
watertiger @ 58
Look, I don’t want to defend Guiliani too much, but he was there when Bush wasn’t. I’m sure he didn’t get any memo that read “planes to attack WTC”. He may suck, but on that day, he stood up to the plate. There’s no reason to belittle that. Anyway, the guy doesn’t have a chance.
Lettuce @ 60
Get this Democratic mover and shakers. Many of us want a clear distinction between the Demo and Repub nominees for prez. Especially on things like the war, health care, environmental safeguards, labor issues (not the DLC brand here), choice, education, judicial matters, diplomacy, the Middle East, no unprovoked wars, and the list goes on. What does it take to convince you guys we support a choice, not business as usual.
Look, I don’t want to defend Guiliani too much, but he was there when Bush wasn’t. I’m sure he didn’t get any memo that read “planes to attack WTC”. He may suck, but on that day, he stood up to the plate. There’s no reason to belittle that. Anyway, the guy doesn’t have a chance.
I’m not belittling the fact that he stuck around. He provided comfort and information to a lot of people. My point is that he simply wasn’t the swashbuckling superhero everyone makes him out to be.
watertiger @ 58
The problem with the radios for firefighters was revealed by the first WTC bombing in ‘93. It was a major action item, necessary for the efficient and effective functioning of the emergency responders. It certainly was Rudy’s fault that the problem had not been corrected by the next bombing of the WTC.
The worst thing this country needs is Giulliani after 8 years of Bush. Honestly, this can’t happen. It is very possible that he could be much worse than W.
And no surprise, from wiki:
Giuliani did not serve in the military during the Vietnam War era; he received a student deferment while at Manhattan College and another while at NYU Law. Upon graduation from the latter in 1968, he was classified as “1-A”, available for military service. He applied for a deferment but was rejected. In 1969, MacMahon wrote a letter to Giuliani’s draft board, asking that he be reclassified as 2-A, civilian occupation deferment, because Giuliani, who was a law clerk for MacMahon, was an essential employee. The deferment was granted. In 1970, Giuliani received a high draft lottery number; he was not called up for service although by then he had been reclassified 1-A.[15][16]
neurophius @ 51
Here’s the segment that sums up the day for me.
Sen. Cardin asks Gonzales why they have investigated voter fraud issues, but they have not investigated voter intimidation cases.
Gonzales first claims he can relate to poor minorities and then explains, falsely, that the department follows guidelines to prevent anybody from being intimidated from voting by the DOJ investigations into voter fraud.
That’s the day in a nutshell… try to seem sympathetic, evade answering the question by talking about something else, and say whatever sounds like it could be a legitimate reason for keeping the job.
It worked well enough for the president to be happy, but anybody with a fully-functioning brain saw right through it.
Let’s get something straight here. We all knew it was toxic, we didn’t need Rudy or the EPA to tell us that.
Geez, ya know how many flourescant lights there were in those buildings? The Asbestos? The steel dust? The PCB’s from the electric generators?
We went in anyway. Our friends and families were in there.
What pisses all of us off is the fact that 6 years later we still have lies and half truths where the answers and the accountability should be.
Phuque the dust.
What exactly does being a centrist consist of? A little bit Republican and a little bit Democratic? And a pinch of moderation, with some lefty and righty tokenism thrown in?
Watching the rerun on CSPAN…
Abu: “Lam’s performance was blah, blah, blah…and that why I decided to make a change”
From a list he never saw, knew nothing about
Subway Serenade @ 72
The smell alone curled my hair. And I was a mile upwind.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 74
Gee, sounds like Dean Broder. But you forgot that centrist is good at cocktail parties.
Please pardon my reversion back to a previous thread–
People for the American Way did a fine job live-blogging the Gonzo hearing today. They also have a “Gonzales must go” toolkit we can use just in case Gonzales doesn’t resign and Bush-Rove want to continue to use him as a shield. I guess Rove figures its better for folks to batter Gonzo than to batter himself, which may be coming next.
And speaking of what’s coming next– Will Miers be next on the hot seat? She’ll appear before he does, I betcha.
Bob in HI
Oklahoma kiddo @ 73
It’s like being a little bit country, and a little bit rock ‘n roll.
Subway Serenade @ 73
Exactly. It smelled like a burnt ballpoint pen. For a month.
Why the fuck are we in Iraq?
watertiger @ 69
I’m sorry, but what guiliani did on 9/11 is the *least* that we should expect from our leaders in the face of a national emergency. The only reason that he stands out is because he did his duty, not that he did it extraordinarily well.
Do the repubs have anyone that really could survive a whole campaign in the whole country?
Bob Schacht @ 78
Miers in the hotseat. That would be great! What did Bush call her? Puss in Boots? Something in Boots.
conniptionfit @ 81
He stood out because Bush went AWOL. As I recall.
OFF TOPIC
I was at school for all but the last 20 minutes of the Gonzo hearings. What is the best thing to read so I know what happened?
A nice dossier on Giuliani
http://www.rhsager.com/blog/wp.....iberal.doc
McLEAN, Va. - A judge’s ruling on Cho Seung-Hui’s mental health should have barred him from purchasing the handguns he used in the Virginia Tech massacre, according to federal regulations. But it was unclear Thursday whether anybody had an obligation to inform federal authorities about Cho’s mental status because of loopholes in the law that governs background checks.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.....ng_weapons
Finally
/end of three day rant
watertiger @ 50
And he stopped the firefighters from hunting for the remains of their comrades lost on The Pile. NYC firefighters will follow Rudy everywhere and tell this story, which ends with their brothers’ ashes filling potholes.
Watertiger says:
Can someone do a caricature or Photoshop of Rudy as Il Duce, ol’ Benito Mussolini himself? There’s a resemblance there on more than one level, no?
I have seen Rudy depicted as Hitler, but Benito is a closer fit I think. Hitler was a global menace but Mussolini was just a tin-horn dictator. So is Rudy, the best weapon against whom is ridicule, as this post shows.
if the consequences of wingnut egotistical, self-absorbed, authoritarian bastardom weren’t so horrific the entertainment value of a ghouliani preznitsee would be tempting.
ghouliani is a megalomaniac of the highest order. Watching his ego crash, slash, and burn with the rest of the right wing debauchery would be something the likes of which the world may not have yet witnessed and may never witness (hopefully).
But alas, humanity can ill afford the collateral damage resulting from the clashing of such monumental insipid nastiness and egomaniacal menace.
.
By refusing to campaign with Rudy, his son sent a bold message to voters that he’s willing to selflessly step aside and let his Dad focus completely on the campaign, because a Guiliani Presidency is that important to him.
The father-son bond is undeniable.
Look, this lady’s using the Gonzo defense. Way to sent an example, Gonzo…
Snarkassandra @
85
short form: Dahlia Lithwick column at slate. DoverBitch has link in a comment somewhere above or NY Times.
Long form: Christy did 8 threads of live blogging with apporx 300 or so comments per thread. :})
Snarkassandra @ 82
No.
This has been another edition of simple answers to simple questions.
The only good thing about Rudy is he can take down a building in a couple of hours.
Apparently some students got together for a The Gonzo drinking game. Everytime Gonzo says “I don’t recall” or “I don’t remember”, you have to drink. Now two of them are in the hospital with alcohol poisoning. They didn’t make it til lunch.
shootings were made
Georgesimian @ 95
Is that a real story?
ccmask @ 94
Corrected.
watertiger @
76
The first station I played after 911 was in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn. The dust from downtown was heavy in the air conditioning systems of the trains, and was deposited in the stations whenever they opened the doors. You could see it billowing out from the vents.
I was at Wall Street the day they finally put the fire out. The subway smelled of the dust till Spring.
Even these days when I play Rector Street, two blocks away, the smell arises as the reconstruction crews go mucking about in the many sub basements beneath the pit.
watertiger @
43
We could use whether he did or not as a test for the eternal recurrence.
atrios ’splains it all rather succinctly
Snarkassandra @ 97
As I recall.
If Rudy is nominated and faces Hillary, all she has to do is make sure she is wearing pants when they face each other in the debates, thus leaving Republicans hopelessly confused as to which person is their candidate. /*snark
The first station I played after 911 was in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn. The dust from downtown was heavy in the air conditioning systems of the trains, and was deposited in the stations whenever they opened the doors. You could see it billowing out from the vents.
Poor Brooklyn. They were directly downwind.