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Here's a few hints:
-- It happened at 9:02 am local time.
-- It killed 168 people.
-- It happened in the Murrah Federal Building in a city in the Great Plains.
-- Most of the victims were Federal employees and their children.
-- The building was targeted by conservative white-supremacist anti-government types who have ideological connections to groups and individuals that form the underpinnings of many extant right-wing movements.
-- George W. Bush will very likely not say a word about it today.
Figured it out yet?
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FDL!!!!
second zed today!!!
It sounds like Keith is using the story Glenn told about the trail of missing evidence.
Oklahoma City Bombing.
Can’t believe it’s been twelve years. That day is seared into my memory.
I believe Tim McVeigh was also a Christian. So he is on the other side. RIP.
George W. Bush will very likely not say a word about it today.
Great point, Phoenix Woman.
Naturally, Clinton handled it better then Bush handled 9/11, Katrina and everything else this admin has bungled.
GWB wouldn’t think of saying a word about it. Not his “brand” of terrorism. Just like the bombings of women’s clinics aren’t any form of terrorism to this administration.
Feh.
We here, recall that day, everyday. Women and children in day care, among many other Oklahomans killed for no reason. We think about it a lot. We just don’t talk about it much.
No remorse ever from Tim McVeigh.
And no remorse from Eric Rudolph.
Fortunately, angry white males are never referred to as “terrorists.”
LoudounLib @ 4
Mine, too.
new coke?
Slothrop @ 10
…Yet.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 9
((((OK Kiddo))))
Phule @ 13
From your keyboard to Keith Olbermann’s modem!
And one of “our own”, i.e. Timothy McVeigh, killed far more children than the Saudis on 9/11.
Fortunately, angry white males are never referred to as “terrorists.”
…Yet.
But thanks for mentioning it.
Phule @ 7
Exactly.
Nor will he say anything about David Koresh and his troubled sect, the Branch Davidians, or the deaths of children and women in the Davidians’ encampment 14 years ago today.
Yet another disturbed Christian who mixed it up with the law at the ultimate expense of women and children.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 18
I will never forget it, OK Kiddo. Ever.
Slothrop @ 10
I’ll call them terrorist. And Rust LimpBalls and Ann Coulter and all the reich-wingers terrorist sympathisers
Rayne @ 20
!
Then Bill Clinton suspended habeus corpus and swept up thousands of white Christians and held them in extra-judicial limbo for years and used this incident to fan the flames of irrational fear and anger to beat the opposing party over the head for electoral gain?
-GSD
Syria was behind it. No, Iran. No, Iraq. Oh, I give up. All I know is it couldn’t be Christians.
BTW, what did 41 say on the ocassion?
Rayne @ 20
Yup. I really find it amazing how many right-wingers, to this day, defend Koresh/Howell even though it’s been shown beyond all doubt that a) he set the fires and b) the whole siege started when he and his grew murdered the law enforcement personnel who had come to investigate charges of child abuse (namely Howell’s habit of taking pre-pubescent “wives”).
GSD @ 24
Fixed.
Phule @ 13
Unless they’re liberating lab animals.
GSD @ 24
Don’t forget his using this as a pretext to invade Canada, because even though the terrorists came from Michigan, the real problem was those damn Canadiofascists!
Glenn being mentioned on KO. Yes, ties the dog ate my homework story . . . over and over and over again.
BTW Phoenix Woman, you made Altercation today…
Man, I got so tired of Bill Clinton running around for five years babbling, “April 19 changed everything,” and accusing every critic of engaging in “pre-April 19th thinking.” It was 4-19 this and 4-19 that.
1,491 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Pheonix Woman and the Firepup Patriots:
Remember Oklahoma City…the real terrorists are in the White House!!
KEEP THE FAITH, ALL THEY GOT LEFT IS THE SMOKE AND MIRRORS!!
Rayne @
20
Errr, I am the only one who thinks this describes Bush too?
12 years ago today, is not why I read FDL. It seems that there have been no posts, but a few comment-ers asking for, regarding Gonzo.
I’m not sure why, but…
Puesta del sol es mas tranquilo…
Twelve years ago today is boring…
Good night! Una cerveza y puesta del sol es mejor. No?
And as of 8:19 PM Eastern Time, Bush still hasn’t said diddly about what happened twelve years ago today. Freaking Rudy Giuliani would, but Bush? Nah.
dakine01 @ 31
For real? Got link?
Petrocelli @ 33
No.
This has been another edition of simple answers to simple questions.
I was working on a dig in rural Mexico and was totally unaware of Oklahoma City for weeks.
Phoenix Woman @ 26
We’ve stepped into Bizarro World, haven’t we? A U.S. Attorney General who actually condoned an investigation of the president, blamed for the conflagration at Waco in spite of the murder of law enforcement persons by the Davidians…a fundamentalist extremist who kept women and children as chattel, like an American Taliban…the date of the final assault becomes fixed more permanently in history by another twisted extremist.
And they revile the USAG and mourn Koresh. They carefully mute comment about McVeigh.
Just sick.
I visited the site about 7 years ago when I was in OK City for a conference and they were working on the memorial but it had a ways to go. An emotionally sad experience.
Phoenix Woman @
29
Take off, eh !
Puesto @ 35
There were no posts about Gonzo today? I must have been dreaming.
Yay, let us celebrate the death.
(my edge cuts both ways and I often confuse. sorry)
“Shown beyond all doubt?” I don’t think so.
Phoenix Woman @
37
http://mediamatters.org/altercation/
Scroll down into the “Correspondents Corner”
I was thinking about this today while I was listening to Alberto Gonzalez on the hot seat. I was recalling various lapses of legal judgment of Attorneys General, like Bobby Kennedy (bugged MLK), John Mitchell, Ed Meese and Janet Reno. Her Justice Department was in charge of the Waco mess.
McVeigh, a Gulf War I veteran, claimed his bombing was a retaliation for Waco. And I didn’t even realize today was the anniversary.
If anyone wants to do some interesting reading to get into the mind of McVeigh, I recommend the Turner Diaries, by Andrew McDonald. McVeigh said it was his favorite book. Heavy on racism and anti-Semitism and violence, it promulgates the idea of a semi-leaderless resistance cells like Al Qaeda.
Clinton’s administration responded to the bombing with the Omnibus Counterterrorism Act of 1995, in some ways a precursor to the Patriot Act. For all the conspiracy theories about 9-11, there were plenty of theories about OK City.
The cycle of violence perpetuated by the Clinton presidency was not one of its high points. It just makes me sad all around.
Petrocelli @ 34
He’s not really a Christian. He only plays on on TV.
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 43
After people got off work, and had a chance to digest the various reportage, relaxing at home…
No, there weren’t ;-} Peace, and good night.
Phoenix Woman:
I mentioned your previous post about this over at my place a day or so ago.
Thanks for reminding us of this horrible event, and the political crap that went along with it, and continues today.
[/blogwhoring]
GSD @ 24
Then Bill Clinton suspended habeus corpus and swept up thousands of white Christians and held them in extra-judicial limbo for years and used this incident to fan the flames of irrational fear and anger to beat the opposing party over the head for electoral gain?
-GSD
Don’t forget his using this as a pretext to invade Canada, because even though the terrorists came from Michigan, the real problem was those damn Canadiofascists!
I wish weren’t still bogged down in that endless bloody occupation of Canada. Damn Bill Clinton and his damnable war-mongering insatiable imperialist p*nis! They should have impeached him.
cleter @ 32
Yeah, and how he accused anyone who disagreed with his plan to invade Canada of “supporting the terraists”.
Well, I’ve got to say it. Bush 1, freedom 0
They let Gonzo escape today.
eCAHNomics @ 25
were all those photos and info on me destroyed?
Must. Bite. Tongue.
John Dean coming up on KO
Rayne @ 55
oh come on let it rip Rayne….I dare you.
lolo
OT but Ted Casablanca (E! network gossip column) reported today that Stepford Laura is living at the Hay-Adams hotel in DC cuz the Chimpenfuhrer is off the wagon.
(Hey, we can’t be serious ALL the time).
sharing a story then going to bed-
rented a car to go to toronto–12 years ago……..license plate was oklahoma…..you wouldn’t believe all of the comments and looks i got all the way to ontario from ohio…….was freaky……drove it ‘home’ for me……..wide array of conversation, all of it human.
nite all
lolo @ 57
Speaking as a fellow Ohioan (I think), I double dawg dare Rayne!
itwasntme @
53
Maybe, but Specter peeled him like a grape. How about “Dead Man Walking?”
dakine01 @ 58
Pstt! Guess who just hit a three run homerun?
Amazing
I apologize for going OT but this was interesting.
Check out mediabistro.com/tvnewser/
Ratings for Wed night show KO toppin BOR. *g*
Doug Keenan @ 45
Yes, it was. At least, beyond all reasonable, non-crackpot doubt. Go check out Rick Ross’ site, where he systematically destroys all the crackpot Koresh/Howell apologists.
Bil @ 60
Coburn didn’t exactly give him a wet sloppy kiss either (speaking of OK).
You know, I didn’t really need the image of Colburn giving a big sloppy kiss to Gonzo.
Eww.
My eyes! It burns!
Cozumel @
62
Who? (Not watching the Reds until after KO.)
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 60
not unless she wants to, it’s ok Rayne.
Rayne @ 55
Rayne can erase it…Emote?
cleter @ 66
Coburn slapped Gonzo down big time today.
Rayne @ 55
You could do that. Or you could exclaim; Oh poor me -why does the world not anticipate and immediately meet all of my needs, wants and desires? Life is cruel! Wah.
lolo — remember the “person of interest” you mentioned in Gabbly? Sometimes it’s best just to bite one’s tongue rather than start a conflagration that rivals the flames of Waco.
I taste blood, though. Should rinse my mouth with a little Cuervo…
edit: I opted for the “mouthwash” technique. Mmm-mmm. But skip the lemon and the salt…
dakine01 @ 70
he told him to resign
itwasntme @
53
Did you read Christy’s blogs “TEXAS TOAST” and the comments? The majority of us, if not all, felt he got roasted and is in fact Dead Man Walking.
On KO John Dean said Whitehouse’s chart was damning. I didn’t see it, but I sure would like to.
I’d agree that Clinton handled the Murrah bombing better than Clinton, but if I can dare to put forth the opinion here, that’s not saying much. His reaction to it was, for me, an absolute low point in my esteem for him. Like Bush, he used it as an opportunity to aggregate more power to the police organs of the executive branch. I recall at the time the critique was that most of the powers he was seeking would have had no effect on the government’s ability to prevent McVeigh doing what he did, had those powers already been in effect (sound familiar?) At the time I found his response, in terms of making inroads against civil liberties, infuriating and sickening. That more recent examples have shown him to be a veritable piker in this regard doesn’t make me want to put him on any kind of pedestal for his own response.
Rayne @ 72
I know but it is quite obvious. The troll will show its true colors. I won’t have to say a word.
lolo @ 73 says:
And he did it so eloquently. When Gonzo has lost a full wing-nutter like Coburn, you KNOW he has to be toast and just don’t know it for himself.
dakine01 @ 67
The rookie, Hamiltion
LS @ 75
It was good enough for Leahy to call it extraordinary and give up some of his time to Whitehouse for continued questions. Leahy said he’d never seen anything like it.
Ken @ 47 (my quote button’s not working) –
The Waco standoff started when George HW Bush was still president. It started when Vernon “David Koresh” Howell gunned down some law enforcement personnel when they and a social worker came to investigate the claims (later verified) that Koresh and his associates were taking pre-teen girls for their bedmates.
Janet Reno had only been AG a few days when William Sessions (the Bush holdover head of the FBI) and Larry Potts (the Bush holdover head of the BATF) made the decision to end the siege. Koresh/Howell’s response was to set fire to the compound — a response he’d planned. There are tape recordings of him ordering the fires to be set.
“Blaming” Clinton or Janet Reno for Waco makes about as much sense as blaming them for Ruby Ridge, which happened in September 1992. (But that didn’t stop Rush Limbaugh for doing so.)
LS (75) — the numbers alone were damning; I couldn’t see the chart in my puny little window of CSPAN-3…but Whitehouse compares Clinton Admin’s control of dialogue between White House and USDOJ, consisting of as little as 3 people, to the wide-open free-for-all between the White House and USDOJ under BushII. If memory serves, the number of folks communicating between the two functions is (417).
In my limited experience with auditing, that’s a freaking nightmare for controls purposes — and it explains perfectly why they had to, um, accidentally lose 5 million emails. The relationship between the White House and the USDOJ was a damned sieve, and you can bet the entire intelligence community outside the U.S. knew it.
Cozumel,
I thnk that’s his fifth in about 25 at bats or close to it. Mah Reds got themselves a keeper with that boy. :})
dakine01 @ 78
And he did it so eloquently. When Gonzo has lost a full wing-nutter like Coburn, you KNOW he has to be toast and just don’t know it for himself.
It was so funny he wanted to bolt out of there.
Things you never hear about OKC:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMXMo3Z0qms
*Lone nuts don’t fit.
Are we supposed to imagine that George Bush didn’t say anything about the Oklahoma City bombing that happened 12 years ago because he goes along with the anti-government, white supremist crap?
More likely because it’s been a damn busy week on all fronts.
LS @
75
Here it is, in Dahlia Lithwick’s column at Slate.
dakine01 @ 83
For $380,000! LOL I’m not a Red’s fan but I’ve been following his comeback via Yahoo’s box scores when they play
dakine01 @ 80
I was so frustrated today, because I lost all internet service at about 2:00..I actually had to go out and live my life for a few hours ;}.
The hearing is on again now, and I’m really looking forward to seeing that part!
Where’s spiderpaws? She could explain the April 19 astrological situation. Always expect an explosion of some sort, but can’t remember the why part.
Rayne @ 82
IIRC, it was Clinton 4 DoJ and 4 WH were the only allowed contacts. VS 417 WH to 31 DoJ in BushCo.
LS @ 89
It will be late as it was in the after lunch and I think after afternoon break, so near the end.
I’m listening to Abu and the Senators on Cspan radio, it’s just great how he gets going with the stammering and stuttering and they just shut him down and say,”That’s not what I want to know, this is the question”, or words to that effect. The senators mostly sound very sad when, after they have asked their questions and they pause, they recap to Abu why they feel he is incompetent and needs to resign. Again and again, he begs like a twelve year old, saying “but, but, but I can do better!!!” I think some of these senators really thought he might rise to the occasion somehow.
Cozumel @
88
Sign him long term right now. He’s the real deal.
dakine01 @ 91
huh? {swimming}
Rayne 82, Thanks for the heads up. BTW, I figured out that if I doubleclick on the little picture on C-SPAN 3, it becomes full screen (at least on my computer). (Techi’s are now rolling eyes as I say that ;} )
LS @ 96
Did you not see my comment at 87?
Dover Bitch @ 97
i watched the view(go rosie - u rock} and she remembered the murrah massacre - and it brought it all back to me…. and also the person of interest supposedly a “olive or brown-skinned man” - boy were they wrong……..
zennurse @ 93
The Republic senators (excluding hatch) were mostly showing the disappointment. The former prosecutors in the Dems were setting him up to slap him back down. Hatch was just giving him strokes and questions from the cramming sessions.
LS @ 98
I’m sure Gonzales thinks he can still be an effective leader. After all, if he can keep his job after this clusterfuck, how could anybody in DOJ doubt that he’s invincible?
nancy @ 90
Let’s think about her and maybe she will pop up at latenight. Use our psychic powers.
(((((Spiderpaws)))))))
Dover Bitch @ 87
Thanks, DB, great. Listening to Whitehouse’s first time around, talking very objectively about the structure and value of DOJ, making Abu agree with him and then bringing it all around to bite him on the ass.
Gonzo was about to cry near the end.
Mental Image Not Safe for Anyone.
Phoenix Woman @ 81: “Janet Reno had only been AG a few days when William Sessions (the Bush holdover head of the FBI) and Larry Potts (the Bush holdover head of the BATF) made the decision to end the siege.”
That may be. But as I recall (and sometimes my recollection rivals AG’s!), Janet Reno, stand-up gal, always took responsibility for that. What a concept.
DrBB @ 76: Got proof? And by proof, I mean something other than recycled right-wing talking points?
Here’s David Neiwert. As he shows, even though the FBI did screw up in his opinion, they didn’t set the fires:
Neiwert goes on to mention the FBI’s lessons learned from Waco (and under a different head, the Bush holdover Sessions having been replaced by Louis Freeh not long after Waco) — namely, that negotiation is better than force — as why the 1996 Montana Freedmen standoff was resolved without loss of life.
MelodyMaker @ 95
Uh, I’m not sure what you’re asking, but I was describing verbally the Sen Whitehouse chart he used to help slap down Gonzo. DoverBitch linked to it in Dahlia Lithwick’s column in Slate.
Sen Whitehouse did this chart that showed the number of staff in Clinton WH authorized to directly contact his DoJ and the number of DoJ staff who could take calls from the WH.
BushCo has 417 WH staff calling 31 different DoJ staff. No control over the process at all. Leading to the lost e-mails.
Unless that’s not what you were wondering in which case I’m an idiot. Again. :})
dakine01 @ 70
Coburn slapped Gonzo down big time today.
It was more like he threw him under the bus. He suggested Abu resign “… so we can put all of this behind us …”
So, Abu resigns, the Dems get their man and we close the (leaking) investigation.
Schumer/Leahy were very shrewd to leave it open, saying that there was no point in going on, hinting that more people will be called for testimony.
Celtic Music @ 107: Yep. She didn’t have to take the blame — it was a Potts/Sessions production all the way — but she did.
And it was her very decency in doing so that made it possible for the right-wingers to smear her and Clinton: “See? SEE?! She ADMITTED SHE WAS RESPONSIBLE!!!!”
thanks for reminding us phoenix woman and other than the view i dont recall if any of the “MSM” talked about it today but it could have been b/c i was watching abu on c-span….
zennurse @ 93
I watch the hearings over and over. There are always nuggets to be found. I had so much fun on gabbly and I hate to admit it I didn’t read the liveblob. I am disabled and take drugs so it’s hard for me to keep up with 2 threads and a live post. Now that I have the hang of gabbly (sp) I will be better next time. Did I say how much fun it is. I had a blast.
lolo