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I'm sure Nancy Keenan is licking her sweet chops over the latest SCOTUS decision. It is, after all, probably going to be the biggest fundraising opportunity she's had during her tenure at NARAL. Bigger even than Sandra Day O'Connor's retirement. Remember that one?
"NARAL Pro-Choice America surpassed its fundraising goals in the hours following Justice O'Connor's announcement," said President Nancy Keenan. Donors "are deeply concerned that President Bush will choose to further divide this nation by nominating a radical right-wing conservative."
Moderation is not the tone of fundraising appeals in the nomination contest. "This is big, people. Huge," NARAL wrote to supporters. "It's true, there is no freedom without choice. Without choice, we are not free."
And what did they do with all that cash? They sat on it and didn't do a damn thing, didn't lift a finger to fight Samuel Alito. Worse yet, when the Gang of 14 decided to vote in favor of cloture, they said that they did not consider cloture votes "significant" and would not be considering them in their scorecard. They then went on to add insult to injury by asking their membership to thank Lincoln Chafee and Joe Lieberman for the beatings they delivered with their "aye" cloture vote by pretending that their "nay" floor votes were significant. They then poured salt into the wound by endorsing both "short ride" Lieberman and Chafee over their opponents who made it clear that they would not have voted for cloture for Alito, which gave us the 5-4 decision we have today.
Don't reward failure. Tell your friends. Don't give money to NARAL when they come knocking on your door to tell you that choice is going down the crapper unless you give them a lot of money, because what you'll be giving money for is Nancy Keenan's ability to point her little pinky over tea at Washington cocktail parties and tut-tut over the state of choice in this country at the hands of the fundamentalists. She'll take no responsibility for the fact that NARAL will not fight, will not back those that fight, and worse yet, that NARAL sucks up all the pro-choice money so nobody else can mount a meaningful fight, either.
May I humbly suggest that if you're looking for a place to put your fighting dollars today, you consider the Blue America PAC. All the money goes to support candidates who are carefully scrutinized by Howie Klein for their pro-choice stance. We were really successful last November in backing a slate of progressive pro-choice, anti-war candidates and will continue to do so, because politicians are not going to back choice unless they think there is support for doing so, and danger if they don't.
Keenan has told many people she thinks she does not have to address these complaints because eventually we will just shut up and go away. Not going to happen, because we actually care about choice and we do know how to fight.
She can wear this one around her neck. Nancy Keenan had all the money, and she did nothing.
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Go Jane!
Not sure if NOW has been doing much good these days either…
Right on, Jane.
Jane!
Too late for the zed, but I think we need some better choices for an alternative to NARAL.
CodePink maybe? What other choices do we have?
Also OT but breaking:
CREW Chief on Fitzgerald and the Missing Emails
By Matt Renner and Jason Leopold
t r u t h o u t | Report, Wednesday 18 April 2007
Fitz has not (yet) responded.
Bob in HI
Oh I won’t be sending anything to NARAL. They betrayed me. And most importantly, lots of women.
DAY-um! zed without even trying. Even stopped to read first! (trying not to break arm while patting self on back…)
Two excellent post in a row. NARAL is a farce. 5-4 decision sucks wind. A bitter dissapointment. What a heart-wrenching story, that last one.
bingo.
Them be the consequences
Preach it Sister Jane! You are sooooo right!!!
egregious — after I asked my question of you a couple threads back, I wasn’t able to stick around for the discussion, but I did get to read through it later. Thanks for your thoughtful responses.
Jane:
As others have said long before, if men were the ones who got pregnant, abortion rights would be protected by a constitutional amendment.
Is partial birth abortion ruling to NARAL what 9/11 was to W?
Scorching!
National NARAL sucks, but didn’t the CT state NARAL have something to say about Sen. Liebermann?
Thank you, Jane! I cut them off a while back, and will continue to keep them cut off. Blue America it is for me!
Why & when did NARAL go bad?
Well, actually, she’s right, we have gone away, but just away from her organization, not away from the fight.
lisadawn82 @ 14
Might be time for them to split off from the main group.
OT Daily Kos: during the past 15 years, 23 states have passed concealed-carry laws, joining the 16 that already had them. In the same period, gun murders have plummeted by 31% in the United States.
More guns, less crime
lisadawn82 @
14
As a matter of fact, they did. Carolyn Treiss, head of CT-NARAL, supported Ned Lamont but had no say in what the national PAC did. Brenden did a great post about this, lemme find the link.
I recommend Planned Parenthood as an alternative. The money given actually goes to providing services. Screw lobbying groups, especially ones that fail in their primary mission.
Quick next-step question for the team:
Notwithstanding the number of Dems who voted FOR the “partial-birth” bill in 2003, can Congress now repeal the law unilaterally? Do they need Bush to sign any repeal if it passes 50 percent in both Houses?
Since my confrontation with NARAL in Austin 2005, they have been on my fecal scroll.
[screechy NARAL rep verbally attacked Markos, got right in his face over his stand on single issue groups]
Removed myself from their email list (not an easy trick either)
Called and demanded to be removed from their mailing list.
Written paper letters expressing my dismay in NARAL’s narrow minded and misguided plans for action and support for candidate X just because of an expressed view on issue Y but has a TOTALLY Wrong record in whole.
When I run into them at events, they get an ear full.
Call them and tell them.
NARAL Pro-Choice America
1156 15th Street, NW Suite 700
Washington, DC 20005
Main Number: 202.973.3000
Main Fax: 202.973.3096
Media Relations: 202.973.3032
Membership Information: membership@ProChoiceAmerica.org
Legacy Gifts: plannedgiving@ProChoiceAmerica.org
Information Line: 202.973.3018
i’ve got say again (especially for newbies) how much i admire jane and howie and everyone who worked on blue america (the candidate list and the pac).
unlike the idiots at NARAL – they have principles and stay true to them.
when brown voted for the MCA (torture, indefinate detention and kangaroo courts) he got taken right off of the blue america list, even though he had been very progressive in other areas.
thank you jane, thank you howie. it’s good to know i can give money to blue america and trust that it will be well used. i just wish i had more $$ to give.
Actually, I am surprised Keenan still has a job after Alito and Short ride.
Apparently there must be a sort of blindness wrt to important decisions that have been inflicting self damage to the cause.
Jane Hamsher @ 20
Jane, I got that right here.
my contempt for Joe Lieberman is partially fueled by national NARAL’s awful behavior.
SteveAudio @ 12
Actually, the way I heard it is:
If the Pope could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacriment.
OT..
“OT Daily Kos: during the past 15 years, 23 states have passed concealed-carry laws, joining the 16 that already had them. In the same period, gun murders have plummeted by 31% in the United States.
More guns, less crime
When Rudy was mayor of NY, violent crime in the state of Montana fell by 1/3. Obviously the crooks were afraid that Rudy would come to their town, so they left.
Is it possible to reform NARAL from the inside? To perform a friendly (or not) take over so to speak?
Here is the NARAL feedback page… just to let them know how you feel!
http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/feedback.html
This decision was made possible by the DLC, NARAL, and the corporate msm folks who told all of us uppity democrats (especially the female ones) that, in order to be considered serious, democrats need to shut up and do what the republicans tell them to do. Compromise means keeping your head down and giving in, time and again.
No more. Never again. I’ll fight until I die before I accept this notion of compromise. And you better believe my congresscritters will be getting (yet another) earful from me on this one.
NARAL to SCROTUM: “Please, Sirs, can we have some more?”
eCAHNomics @ 16
Because CEO’s of donation supported oranizations are performance ranked by how well they raise funds, not on their policy wins.
Don’t just dump on her, dump on the Board that uses this criteria
Don’t reward failure.
I AGREE completely. Which is why I won’t be supporting NARAL or NPR or PBS with my hard-earned dollars.
These organizations are especially unworthy of our patronage because of their influence over the less-informed liberal population. They are MORE dangerous and disengenuous than far-right organizations because they have a certain *liberal* veneer and prestige.
They are an insidious forces, all of them.
Where is Keenan’s board on this?
Where can we go from here?
brendancalling @
27
That’s a great post, Brenden. Says it all.
This got EPU’d so I hope it’s ok to repost. It is relevant because it’s Ursula K. Le Guinn’s take on what a truly gender neutral society would be like.
The Left Hand of Darkness
Wikipedia entry
merciless @ 33
Whoopsie, this also is a bad day for Hillary “(DLC is my middle name)” Clinton, imho.
I swear I was going to donate to NARAL tomorrow but instead I’m giving to Blue America–anyone want to match me $50.00?
Thanks Jane!! That was so very close!!
PLovering @ 19
Try More Police, Less Crime.
One does not always cause the other.
PLovering @ 19
The proportion of the population most likely to commit crimes (teenagers, basically) has gone down. Rudy G. tried to claim credit for his this in NYC, however the same trend occurred at the same time in other cities. If you want to claim credit for concealed carry laws lowering the crime rate, you have to break things out quite carefully.
Anyways, more guns, less crime is not a good summary of the post by meteor blades.
Part Of Ginsberg descent, from Balkinization:
Link
America’s women just got patronized big-time in this decision.
AMEN, Sister!
Another great alt. idea is to send your dough to or volunteer for Planned Parenthood. Their services cover all aspects of Ob-Gyn care, & truly help those who can’t pay & have few other options…
Phule @ 43
Conceal carry laws don’t necessarily mean there are more guns out there. You would also have to consider the types of gun-related killings – in private or public spaces for example. And did the death rates go down in the just states that enacted the legislation or elsewhere as well – in which case something else is going on.
So far, what you got proves nothing.
SteveAudio @ 12
If men were the ones who got pregnant, women would be the ones in power.
Congress needs to create a bill that solely addresses the right of every woman and every man to be able to control their own reproductive system and all medical decisions in relation to their own bodies.
So, what does NARAL propose to do when even more women are restricted from exercising their right to reproductive freedom by NARAL’s blatant refusal to STEP UP and fight back?
Jane, maybe I should print off your excellent post and mail it to the headquarters, along with a letter asking them to take me off their mailing list. Permanently.
-S
PLovering @
19
No, the correlation is between guns and murder. Violent crime has soared.
The perception here is that most ‘Christian church’ denominations do not support choice. I could be wrong on this.
ccmask @
42
I’ll match your $50.
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 44
Also, more, many more, potential criminals locked up in jail.
And as someone else mentions, more cops.
No one has done a good study about the decrease in crime rates, considering the multiple factors involved. Or at least I haven’t seen one.
But don’t expect wingnuts to want a good study. Any damn correlation is good enough for them.
BTW, crimes rates have started to trend up under W, have they not? Especially in Midwest?
Reid – The President must search his soul…doesn’t appear to me that he has one..just sayin’
Nancy, Nancy you’re a tool
Flushing the cash is all you do
Pretend this ruling is something new
And stick it you-know-where you stupid fool
Jane Hamsher @ 54
I will match you too.
Jane Hamsher @ 54
Thanks Jane!
Fern @ 48
Phule @ 43
PLovering @ 19
at Daily Kos: during the past 15 years, 23 states have passed concealed-carry laws, joining the 16 that already had them. In the same period, gun murders have plummeted by 31% in the United States.
More guns, less crime
Try More Police, Less Crime.
One does not always cause the other.
Conceal carry laws don’t necessarily mean there are more guns out there. You would also have to consider the types of gun-related killings – in private or public spaces for example. And did the death rates go down in the just states that enacted the legislation or elsewhere as well – in which case something else is going on.
So far, what you got proves nothing.
Hint: There was a program to put more officers on the street in that timeframe.
Would you like to buy a clue for $100?
I got a fundraising call from NARAL over the weekend and told the phone person that I was not going to support them because of the Ho-Jo endorsement. She said that she had heard that quite a bit in her phoning, so perhaps we can get through.
Folks, do we have to feed PLovering? The term “concern troll” comes to mind. And obviously doing a decent job of throwing thread off topic. My $.02
PLovering @ 19
At the same time, Clinton funded over 100,000 community police.
You cannot measure this without measuring all the variables. Thom Hartman had a segment on yesterday debunking this study. That it was another NRA propaganda spin story.
What is different in Europe & Canada that USA
1. safety net (healthcare, pensions, BENEFITS)
2. Gun control (every weapon is known and registered)
3. Less violence on TeeVee
When people feel that they are cared for, that they do not need to fear for their safety, that the news is NOT “it bleeds, it leads” and ratchets up the fear factor.
Try a road trip through Canada away from the American media…. big eye opener, also the biggest way to decompress.
dakine01 @ 62
True, that. sorry.
Anyone who’s been giving money to NARAL for the last year must be living in a cave. I really don’t understand why people pay any attention to them at all. They’re the HRC of abortion rights.
The Republicans really, really need to get over their attitude that they know what’s best for us all. I so resent that arrogance. Especially from the likes of Bush.
AZ Matt @ 58
Done plus $25 for Charlie Brown.
Frank Probst @ 65
I repeat my Q from above, as I haven’t seen an answer. When & why did NARAL go bad, if anyone knows?
Thank You Jane!
Frank Probst @ 65
People work hard, they don’t pay a lot of attention to the news and they trust that when they write their check to NARAL that money is going to fight for choice. NARAL abuses that trust.
I really don’t get the concern from the right, often leveled against such legislation as anti-smoking laws, that they turn us into a “nanny state”. The right in it’s support of anti-abortion laws and others are the ones who are really giving up rights to the state. Just another Rovian spin I guess.
Jane,
Thank you for the article. Many of us need to be apprised of this kind of behavior in order to know where to put our money. Greed is not exclusively republican,after all, and, apparently, neither is hubris.
Nice going AZ!
noen @ 71
Anti-smoking laws are about externalities–what other people do that affects you. Anti-abortion laws are about what you do that affects only you. Does that clear it up?
I’m a white male in my 30’s, and since I was a little boy I have understood the importance of a woman’s right to choose what to do with her own body. I have seen a couple of posts that talk about giving money to planned parenthood, or about how they have personally tried to compromise on this issue in the past. There are few issues that I am absolute on, but this is one of them. In my opinion, there is nothing to compromise on in regard to a woman’s right to choose what she wants to do with her body. On more than one occasion I have heard people from planned parenthood talk about how there is room for compromise here. Both sides need to come together on this they will say. To which I once again will scream at the TV or radio THERE IS NO ROOM FOR COMPROMISE HERE! To me it is this simple, there is is a woman, she has a body, she can get pregnant, and she can choose to have the child or not. I don’t see any room in there for anyone, much less a man (who doesn’t own the same equipment and will never understand what it means to be a woman) to be making that decision for that woman. It’s much like the 4th amendment. There is nothing fuzzy there. A warrant is required for a search, and to get a warrant you need probable cause. Any room for compromise there? No, I didn’t think so.
Oh, also, you’ll get a lot of people that think restricting abortion rights to age is OK. Well, if your old enough to get pregnant, then you are old enough to choose what to do with your body. I would hope my kid would come to me if stuck in that situation, but I would never support a law that made her do it. That will just force kids into horrible situations to get the abortion anyway.
Not singling out anyone, just a positional opinion here.
ccmask @ 73
You are welcome!
How do we reconcile ourselves to those politicians who we admire for being pro-choice, yet, at the same time support, the Iraq war?
This is an excerpt of a letter I recently recieved from Planned Parenthood International:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..123951/995
WH & RNC working to vet emails?
eCAHNomics @ 74
So in other words… what you are saying is that in the eyes of the right… the law is all about me? Me, me, me. Everything in this world revolves around me. In the eyes of the right that is.
Well isn’t that just special.
Phule @ 43
Proven fact: More police, Less gun crime.
Who listens!
Jane, Christy, women of the lake.
Today I’m ashamed of our venal Senate, five Supremes (three of whom lied in their confirmation hearings in order to destroy abortion access), and our nation.
And my gender.
Thanks Jane and Christy for your tireless advocacy for reproductive freedom.
2008 candidates on the abortion ruling.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes…..on-ruling/
noen @ 80
To put a finer point on it, Rs want to control your private life, especially if you’re a woman, or other disadvantaged group member. They couldn’t care less about the public sphere.
In fact, IMO that summarized the fundamental differences between Ds & Rs.
AngryAmerican @ 75
You must have had a wonderful mother. She raised you well. Thank you
Woodhall Hollow @ 78
As far as I can determine Mr. Wolfowicz has always had a penchant for being a liar. ;0)
OT but important
IN DECEMBER 2005, A VIRGINIA COURT FOUND VT KILLER SEUNG CHO ‘MENTALLY ILL’ AND ‘AN IMMINENT DANGER TO OTHERS’
Good for all of you. Great post Jane. WE WHO DO NOT FORGET!!
The culture-of-life folks won’t have anything to say about this devastation of life done under the auspices of their feckless leader.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04…..ad.html?hp
OT — USAs
If you’ve never seen the flip-floppery of MN Senator Normie Coleman, think progress has the latest goods wrt Rachel Paulose.
I think of it as a hooked walleye flipping and thrashing hopelessly in the bottom of the boat….
I stopped donating to NARAL awhile ago. But, I still get mail from them which gets thrown away unread. I’ll read the next one and if it’a a request for $, I’ll enclose, instead, a note letting them know how they’ve disappointed all of us.
looseheadprop @ 87
You’ve got to be kidding me.
Dear Nancy,
It’s a Short Ride from my mailbox to my recycling bin, as your requests for my support will discover.
looseheadprop @ 87
And then he went out and bought a gun. No questions asked.
Or maybe a hooked eelpout, since some say Normie has a lake place near Walker MN, home of the eelpout festival.
Some say it’s actually lobbyist Vin Webber’s garage.
looseheadprop @ 87
Ummm. Dung hitteth the fan.
looseheadprop @ 87
I’m counting the days until the first lawsuit gets filed against the school and/or cops.
Prairie Sunshine @ 90
I happen to be a Minnesotan. Sen. Coleman has become more and more strident of late. Sounding like just another clone. He used to be very moderate. I suppose that the Borg implants chaff.
But I think there were other reasons for his flip. Given the GOP penchant for black mail as a means to power.
AZ Matt @
58
I matched you both.
Thank You, That was very nice of you Jane!
Compare and contrast:
–the NRA’s scorched earth policy re gun control
–NARAL’s warm and fuzzies for moderation and compromise
Which group has been more effective over the last decade in achieving the goals desired by their donors and membership?
Gnome de Plume @ 52
Gnome de Plume @ 52
Jeebus, 4 million guns sold every year, and gun crime has gone down.
And you say — No Correlation!Fern @ 48
Save the spin. Let’s stick with the facts.
From Bench Conference by Andrew Cohen
LINK
Get your firedog matches and head on over to Blue America, for a progressive change…)
Boo yah!
PLovering @ 102
How about staying on topic.
This is really disturbing about the VT shootings
http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/s…..amp;page=2
“No record in government files”
Is it just Cho’s files?
Is it just psych drugs?
Is it ALL drugs prescribed?
WTF?
Just read the article. So a court found him to be an imminent threat to himself and others, and he was still able to walk in off the street and buy a handgun and ammo with no waiting period. And don’t forget, the assault weapons ban that outlawed high-capacity magazines expired in 2004. Let me know when it’s time to have a common-sense debate about gun control.
looseheadprop @
35
I have over 20 years experience in nonprofit management. Raising money IS very important, but more important is the agenda of an agency’s board of directors and how its manifested in their overall support for the director. Typically in large nonprofits, directors are responsible for the overall mission while development directors are judged more on the dollars they bring in.
Boards are weird. Most of them I’ve been involved with have a couple of members who are truly engaged while the rest serve as a way to fluff their resume. If they even come to meetings, they’re usually unprepared. They sit through meetings like bumps on logs and vote the way the active or loudest members vote. If a director has the support of the board’s active leaders (not necessarily elected leaders), the director’s job is safe. That is, until something happens that shakes up the inactive members.
Ultimately, NARAL’s blame lies with their board for allowing the organization to become ineffective.
This Ben Sargent cartoon while not about abortion does whack the what the Bushies have done to this nation: Sargent Toon
Frank Probst @ 107
not until we shrink the NRA small enough so we can drown it in the bathtub
Thanks for the reminder post, Jane. Hope all is well with you.
When Nancy Keenan passes away and finds herself in the other place, may she be impregnated by Joe Lieberman. When she has second thoughts, she’ll then be hauled from hospital to hospital on a gurney pushed by Joe through never ending third trimester corriders.
Can we be assured that no money from Blue America will find it’s way into Senator Clinton’s ‘war chest’ from now, through the next presidential election?
eCAHNomics @
97
I’m counting the days until the first lawsuit gets filed against the school and/or cops.
Ironically, just a few days before the shooting the NY Times ran an article about the growing dilemma colleges face in dealing with disturbed students, and some have begun dismissing students who evidence severe emotional problems, rather than take on the responsibility of dealing with them.
Sorry, I don’t have the link. In any case it would be archived by now, must pay to read.
Among the questions that need to be answered: what did the parents know about their son’s problems and when did they know it? Apparently Cho has a sister who is a Princeton grad and is a contractor to the State Dept. What was her state of knowledge about her younger brother’s problems? Was there a massive case of family failure here? If the courts declared Cho to be an imminent threat to others, what was the response of the family? (There were reports that Cho was on medication. If so, what possible side effects did these meds have? Some antidepressants are known to exacerbate depression and aggression.)
Why is it necessary that VT be the only party at fault here? I have no doubt there will be lawsuits, but from a legal point of view, what is the extent of the responsibility of colleges to look after their disturbed students? Where is all this spelled out? Seems to me a murky area, full of shifting shadows, doubt, and questions. And lots of work for lawyers.
(I write as a parent of a college-age son.)
I dunno, not meaning to feed trolls…but…
Since being introduced in 2001, Bratz dolls have become hugely successful in the marketplace, increasing unit sales every year. During that same time period, gun murders have decreased.
More Bratz, less crime. It’s just common sense!
I think I stirred up a pot of shit on an earlier post on the Supreme Court decision, voicing my concerns about having a Catholic majority on the court. I neglected to say that I am Catholic myself. Maybe it’s because I live in a red pocket of a blue state, but most of my fellow Catholics here are single issue voters. Personally I am against abortion, and I think the church went about it the wrong way by aligning itself with the Republican party when it should have maintained an independently moral position and just tried to change hearts rather than force its position through the law. Ironically, late term abortion should be allowed especially because these cases are few in number and do come down most frequently to the life of the mother being threatened. These are not the people who abort because they wanted a boy and not a girl.
Anybody know how to use Democracy in Action tools? I want to start a petition to NARAL and Stoller says we can use Blogpac’s tools but they are not intuitive and we need someone with experience.
Violent crime is most strongly correlated with the size of the 18-35 male population- to the point where it washes out most other differences.
Ed*ard Teller @ 112
Just spare me the visuals please. ;0)
My letter to NARAL:
Please STOP sending me requests for donations when your organization does NOTHING to help protect choice.
I do not reward failure. NARAL failed do anything to protect anything other than the money coming into NARAL.
I do not reward failure. NARAL failed to do its job and I stand with Jane Hamsher at FireDogLake. See her post today about NARAL’s failure to do what it was formed to do – protect women’s rights. She has been saying NARAL is a joke since you failed to fight against the Alito nomination.
She was right. NARAL is a failure and I do not support failures. I am not going to go away, no matter what the director of your organization thinks. I am a woman. I vote. I have control over who I donote to. It is not longer NARAL.
NARAL is nothing but a money making access organization – making money for those on the board of directions – keeping its access for those important pinky-extended tea drinking sessions with those who fight against choice.
Is it because women do not matter in NARAL’s eys?
My money now goes to Planned Parenthood. They provide services to women. Gee, what a concept. Too bad NARAL forgot its base – women.
On a more serious (non-troll) note, we give as a family every year to Planned Parenthood. Many years ago I met a group of young men who had attended a series of “Advocates” classes at PP. These were the smartest, most responsible teen-aged guys I’ve ever met. Planned Parenthood does some remarkable work.
OT – Roll Call: FBI raids Rep. Doolittle’s (R-CA) home in Northern Va. More soon.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/
Oklahoma kiddo @ 113
Howie is in charge of vetting all the candidates, but we have decided to stay out of the presidential and focus on House and Senate races.
In my opinion, those who oppose abortion are perfectly welcome to not have abortions themselves. It’s when they try to tell eveyone else what to do that it becomes the problem.
But look on the bright side, if they take away abortion, the same precedents can be used to take away guns from private ownership forever. /*snark
Jane Hamsher @ 123
I love the lake.
If men got pregnant, aside from a constitutional amendment guaranteeing abortion rights, I think many of us would be carrying straight razors to bed a la Lorainne Bobbitt.
Can’t say I’m surprised at the decision although I had hoped Kennedy would see the institutional importance of his vote to be in favor of the right to have the procedure.
You’d think after the coup he, O’Conner, and Stevens helped engineer he’d be doing everything in his power to atone for the damage they have wreaked on the country, the court, and the constitution.
What a shame. What a sham.
Cozumel @ 122
Oh YES! Rev up the Charlie Brown campaign!
Thank you for this article, from now on Planned Parenthood will get the donation.
dreamcatcher @ 114
I am a survivor of a personal event that was just as horrific as VT. I knew something was wrong in advance, though did not have the kind of information that was available on Cho, as in my case he was fully functional & sociable. Still, I knew something was desperately wrong & got us into marital counseling & tried everything else I knew. Still resulted in tragedy. I think these situations are very dicey & would not ever talk about failed family efforts. I am more capable & energetic than most & I failed.
And, as will be the case with VT, the grown children of his prior marriage filed 13 lawsuits against me which took 5 years to sort out. The ‘initial’ bad event is only the middle of the tragedy. It started long before the shooting & wil continue long afterwards.
Cozumel @ 122
Oh this is GREAT news! See, there is good news today among all the dreck and shame.
In the year that the “partial birth” law was passed, there were approx 11 procedures nationally. 100% for birth defects or mother’s serious health issues. So 300 millions are subjected to a NATIONAL law to prevent 11 preferred medical procedures which is considered 100% medically necessary per their own physician’s.
Kind of reminds ya of the Terri Shiavo law doesn’t it?
punaise @ 28
but will it subside?
Anonymous Repub put hold on this:
http://www.sunlightfoundation.com/node/2428
SCROTUS removed choice for all female American citizens.
Baghdad is blowing up – carnage.
VT didn’t stop shooter, didn’t notify students.
WH to vet RNC emails.
Build-up continues in Gulf.
I am going to eat an entire pan of brownies.
Jane Hamsher @
123
Howie’s vetting is the best I’ve observed. It is mostly common sense, salted with tons of research and more hard fucking work than any other blogger/organizer. Thank G*d Howie’s on our side!
LS @ 133
LS, I’m with you. Chocolate is our friend.
Why must people impose their brand of morality on others? To fulfill the biblical Great Commission, Christians must go yee therefore and spread the good news. This is a problem that interferes with the life, liberty and pursuit of happiness of the recipient of the good news.
matt @ 126
If the coup you are referring to is the 2000 giveaway of the presidency (Bush v. Gore), Stevens voted for Gore: the infamous five are Rhenquist, Scalia, Thomas, O’Connor, and Kennedy. The “engineer” you are referring to is probably Kennedy since he decided that the court should hear the case.
djinn @ 101
Ding Ding Ding Ding
We have a winna!
solai @ 94
And then he went out and bought a gun. No questions asked.
Had Cho been in the database, no way he buys those guns.
Court day late and dollar short doing their behind paperwork.
Loo Hoo @ 132
when Short-Ride Joe has finally been put out to pasture it may begin to subside. maybe.
eCAHNomics @ 129
Thank you for this.
There is a mentally ill person in my family (schizophrenia) and there have been a number of bad event close calls.
What most people don’t realize is that almost inevitably, family and friends are aware long before the bad event that things are capable of going horribly wrong. When you are dealing with an adult, there is very very little you can do, legally or ethically. And there is very little help to be gotten.
It really sounds like a number of people in Cho’s case tried to intervene. But without better support services and better public education (cops are almost always clueless) regarding mental illness, unfortunately these sorts of events will continue to happen.
Although it is worth pointing out, that if VA had more reasonable gun control laws (like who the hell needs a 9 mm Glock handgun) then it is possible that the carnage would’ve been prevented or minimized.
Well — here’s a bit of very interesting news via TPM: Roll Call says that Rep. Doolittle’s house in Virginia just got raided by the FBI. I’m having a schadenfreude overload. Is that wrong? (Ooops — Cozumel got there before I saw this at 122.)
Thank you, Jane. Thank you for continuing to fight like hell for us.
egregious @ 127
And I just kicked in some $$’s for Charlie! I suspect it will go farther now.
Breaking: NBC news received communication from CHO re: shootings!!!??????
Christy Hardin Smith @ 142
Embrace the schadenfreude.
Nancy “Dry Powder” Keenan
for Christy:
“Hang down your head, John Doolittle,
Hang down your head and cry;
Hang down your head, John Doolittle,
Poor boy, you’re bound to be tried.”
Zee @ 108
I was on the Board of a No-for-profit that advocates to protect women from domestic violence. I am happy to say that we spent at least as much time working onhow to stay on mission as on how to fund the mission.
By contrast, the Board memebers I know from pro-choice groups seem to think if they raise enough $ and behave like “ladies” (gag me) they will be INVITED to have a seat at the table.
Jane has the right idea, storm the gates and sit ON the table.
NBC knew???? What the hell is going on????
Great news about DOOLITTLE BTW!!
Christy @ 142…I’m with you on that schaudenfraude thingy…oh man wouldn’t THAT be grand? I’ll kick in for Charlie Brown and volunteer from afar as needed.
Punaise, thanks for conjuring the Kingston Trio to mind…
NBC received package with writings and images days ago. FBI has the originals.
martha @ 151
can’t wait to hear Nate’s take on this…
OT this was news to me, I apologize if it isn’t news to youse.
the raw story
Woodhall Hollow @ 141
Thanks you for yours too. I think people not involved in these situations do not know how powerless you are.
As for gun legislation, in my case he had a friend buy it in a state that had laxer gun laws. Where there’s a will, there’s a way.
Zee @ 146
yes, it’s so long overdue
The Muck has more on Doolittle from The Hill — including the fact that the FBI may have searched Doolittle’s home on Friday when his former aide Ring resigned from his law firm job. Veddy, veddy interesting.
LS @
145
According to ABC News, NBC received a manifesto from him, according to this breaking news headline from ABC: POLICE SAY NBC NEWS RECEIVED A MANIFESTO BELIEVED TO BE FROM THE VIRGINIA TECH KILLER
solai @ 94
And then he went out and bought a gun. No questions asked.
In Caifornia, any involuntary psych hospitalization (5150) puts the patient on the state’s “do not buy” list for firearms transaction.
Of course, our voters and politicians have the stones to face down the cowardly blowhards at the NRA.
Too bad the Virginia House of Delegates don’t.
But why should VA state reps care? They hold onto their elected office by voting to ensure more people get killed by firearms.
What a bunch of pathetic cowards.
Every VA lawmaker who held back fighting the NRA to save their miserable political ambitions CHOSE to become an accessory before the fact to multiple murders.
You are so right, we know how to fight. And we do not forget.
looseheadprop @ 149
Like I said, the loudest board members rule. I agree, storm the gates, sit on the table and if no one listens, stand on the table and use a bullhorn.
i’ve had dealings with a planned parenthood clinic just in the last 48 hours, with less than stellar results. she got an iud inserted monday and apparently her body is trying its damnedest to expel the thing, with cramps that approach labor pains. we’re going back to the regular gynie tomorrow to have it removed. pp was no help at all, at all. no advice, no sympathy, nothing.
yeah, i wrote off naral and now and pp after the lieberman mess. wish they lived up to their missions.
oh, and emily’s list too. any statement from them other than a money plea. they gave hillary a sh-tload of money, which she didn’t need, before she even announced her candidacy. net effect, denied funds to candidates who really did need it.
LS @ 153
MSNBC says the material was sent between the first and second shooting.
Zee @
135
I keep a pint of h**gen-dazs chocolate chocolate chip in the freezer. Plus, I picked up a big slice of chocolate cake w/chocolate icing at the market this morning. Uhhhmmmm! C-h-o-c-o-l-a-t-e!!!!
Embrace the ((((((schadenfreude))))))
Christy Hardin Smith @ 142
A bright spot on a black day.
LS at 150 – When something like this happens, you would not believe the number of crazy phone calls that news organizations and police folks get from people who want to claim responsibility and/or get public notariety for the incident. It happens with bomb threats and shootings and all sorts of stuff like that — and these people have absolutely no connection to it. I’m sure NBC has to deal with that sort of thing a lot, being a national news organization, and they were probably trying to figure out if the cal was legit or something complete unconnected. You can’t blame some intern kid for being skeptical, given the number of truly nutty calls that they likely get on a day to day basis from people claiming responsibility for any number of things in the news. Truly. I’m sure we’ll learn more as details come out on this, but it’s best to wait and find out all the details before blaming the kid who answered the phone, ya know?
Update: Except that MSNBC is now reporting that they received a “manifesto” from the shooter. Well, that’s just plain weird.
sonate @ 30
It would be great to know if Carol Lam’s efforts had something to do wrt the raid on Doolittles house.
That would be a major dose of schadenfrude.
Christy Hardin Smith @
142
Just lucky ; )
And WTF is a progressive like Jessica Valenti from feministing doing blogging for NARAL?
Jane – please forgive this interruption:
VT Killer Ruled Mentally Ill by Court; Let Go After Hospital Visit
What I would like to know is this: what paperwork was he required to fill out when he purchased both guns? (I haven’t had a chance yet to read all of the ABC News story for which I am now providing a link.)
I’m as MAD AS HELL and I’m NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE.
Remember that catch-phrase? From the movie “Network”?
Popped into my head for some reason this morning. Not sure why…think I was looking in the mirror brushing my teeth or something.
At least 183 dead in Iraq today. I will not vote for any presidential candidate, regardless of political party, who does not call for a pull out of our troops.
eCAHNomics @ 156
Virginia? I do understand they have among the laxest gun laws in the country and just a straight shot up and down 95.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 168
I was just responding to the Press Conference, and I certainly understand your point. They said that NBC is going to report on it “tonight”. It may also be that it was so vague that they didn’t know what to do with it or something. We will be finding out pretty soon.
in re: Doolittle (could the man have a more reflective name?) raid, all I can ask is: WTF TOOK ‘EM SO LONG!?!
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 173
It should have been in a data base not to sell that guy a gun or anyone else deemed mentally ill. Arrrg
/end of rant
LS @ 177
gee, NBC’s been reporting on itself a lot lately.
dakine01 @ 176.
No. CT, where the friend was a resident. He did register it in NYS, at the upstate house because can’t get handgun permit easily in NYC. Registration saved me quite a bit of additional hassle afterwards.
Got a good chuckle out of that one…..though I wouldn’t put it past Mayor Megalomaniac to make that claim.
Nancy NARAL, that albatross hanging from your neck looks, uh, very striking.
looseheadprop @
138
Speaking of scorched earth lobbies …
Don’t forget A*I*P*A*C.
Days like today, I almost expect to sit down at the computer and see a new post by Christy entitled “Pull Out Your Hair!”
New thread upstairs
eCAHNomics @ 181
Well, that took care of my second choice as well which would have been New Hampshire, home of the Live Free or Die folks (a lot of dead people paying rent up there they tell me). :})
Jane has the Doolittle Raid upstairs on a fresh thread
Brisingamen @ 152
Yeah, Punaise. Aren’t you dating yourself with those lyrics?
Eureka Springs @ 185
LOL
I think we need a post of 5,000,000 recipes for consoling CHOCOLATE.
Candidates for any office who do not call for a pull-out from Iraq, no unprovoked wars, environmental safeguards, health care for all, and freedom of choice, will receive no money, support or my vote in Nov. 2008. Tall order.
dakine01 @ 176
That is right. It is so bad that Mayor Bloomberg has resorted to hiring private investigators to buy illegal weapons so that that the City can sue VA gun dealers in civil court.
The problem is that the NRA has been resisting with all their might the use of a national data base…which would prevent known criminals and those with a history of mental illness from crossing state lines and buying guns.
The Virginia legislature has a LOT of blood on its hands.
LS @ 145
msnbc link
Hard to make anything out of this report right now, though sensational. As they say…developing.
Reminds me about Chuchill’s quote about Soviet Russia, “A riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.”
retirin’ in five @ 189
before my time, but for some reason that little ditty has been kicking around my head since last fall – waiting for the Doolittle shoe to fall.
Gnome de Plume @ 61
Hey, firepups. I just sent an email to NARAL about the decision and their complicity in allowing to happen, and I mentioned their support of Lieberman as well.
Of course, I’ve never given them any money, but since I had to give my mailing address as well as email, I wouldn’t be surprised if I start getting solicitations. If so, I’ll keep pounding on the subject.
Meanwhile, maybe we just need to create a new organization to take NARAL’s place. Or just keep giving to Planned Parenthood.
Punaise — “before my time.” Alright, we’ll take your word for it on this one but one more incident and we’ll have to ask for some ID.
retirin’ in five @ 196
like this?:
Doolittle: till you hear from me,
Pay no attention to what’s said.
Why people tear the seams of anyone’s schemes
Is over my head.
Doolittle: till you hear from me,
At least consider our bank accounts.
If you should take the words of others you’ve heard,
I haven’t a chance.
punaise @ 197
You are the master! And one of my favorites! Phil Collins does a version of this in ‘85 or so that I just love. The sax in the intro — short, sweet, magnificent. And the lyrics — Billy Strayhorn and the Duke, unless I’m mistaken. You sure you’re not a senior?
I posted this on an Arkansas blog..in the midst of many anti comments…
Same goes for Emily’s list
the pro choice women’s pac NOT
looseheadprop @ 85
I did (do) have a wonderful mother. I’ll have to give her a call and thank her. :-) I thank you for the compliment.
Woodhall Hollow @ 141
So true. The lack of support systems for mental illness has more bearing on this crime than the gun control laws IMHO — not that they’re perfect by any means.
My years as a public librarian showed me how often local law enforcement, social service agencies and public places like universities and libraries knew so many of the same adults in their various states of compliance with their meds, their current marginal housing situations, etc. Unfortunately we only had a chance to compare notes after someone broke the law or a family member was ready to have someone committed.
There just isn’t the right structure in place to contact those who can help before anything illegal happens — without breaking all kinds of privacy laws. It’s a thorny issue and one that deserves more thorough attention.
Interesting that privacy and autonomy is so paramount in dealing with mental illness and purchasing firearms, but if you want to terminate a pregnancy… erm, not so much.
OT:
For the record, I am not poster “djinn” and poster “djinn” is not me.
Furthermore, I did not (to my conscious knowledge, at least) attempt to clone another poster’s ID. Nor am I attempting to masquerade as another poster.
If, on the other hand, we are building an army of sorts, I say “Welcome friend!”
:)
Gunga one
Djinn many
dreamcatcher @
193
Now, it is making more sense. Apparently, he sent it by mail at the time of the shootings, and NBC received it this morning and gave it to the FBI right away.
Supreme Court Rhetoric Reveals Deep ‘Hostility’ To Women’s Rights
hey jane — while i agree re NARAL, today
may not be all bad news — to wit, listen to ed kilgore:
. . .the highly convoluted majority opinion, as reflected in the remarkably clear concurring and dissenting opinions, may make a broader attack on abortion rights harder in the long run, making the next appointment or two to the Court even more critical.
To make a long story short, the majority opinion (as brilliantly exposed in Justice Ginsburg’s dissent) went to inordinate and irrational lengths to reconcile the decision with the Court’s precedents, most obviously Stenberg (which struck down state “partial-birth” bans), Casey (which solidified a “health exception” to any permittable abortion restrictions), and Roe itself. Clearly the replacement of O’Conner by Alito made this result possible. But the failure of Alito and Roberts to join the concurring opinion by Thomas and Scalia calling for a reversal of all these precedents means that a further change in the Court will probably be necessary to produce a more fundamental shift in the constitutional law of abortion rights. And that’s one of many reasons why Democrats need to win the presidency in 2008. . .
retirin’: born in 1960, a bona fide trailing edge baby boomer. I swear!
song credits: (Edward “Duke” Ellington, Bob Russell)
haven’t heard the P. Collins version. I’m a huge fan of his drumming (the original Genesis, with Peter Gabriel; and Brand X jazz fusion); much less so of his singing and songwriting. (the mere mention of him in the presence of some – not me – is enough to ignite a lot of angst anfd bile in the comments)…none of which is intended to diminish your appreciation of same.
I’d never give NARAL a dime. They lost me a long time ago.
How are you feeling Jane? Hope you’re ok.
Cozumel @ 179
Just heard a report and interview w/ a Virginia gun law specialist atty on that issue: mental hospital records not well-organized, question asked on the form for buying a gun — Cho, like every other shooter who bought their guns just before this kind of thing, LIED on the form. Duh. Such a big help, asking the buyer a question that he knows will prevent him from getting what he wants.
musicsleuth says:
.
Seconded. I used to represent patients on our local mental health docket – hearings on whether the patient should get out after the end of the period of involuntary commitment. I had to stop doing it, because my duty as their lawyer was to advocate for what they wanted, not for what they needed. Naturally, most wanted to get out now. For some, that was fine. For others….my conscience couldn’t handle it anymore and I gave it up.
I’ve also represented people who desperately tried to get help from the existing system for emergency mental health services. Of course, that’s only for the poor, or uninsured, who can’t go to the private hospital. Horror stories both ways… can’t get interviewed, can’t get admitted, can’t get meds — or cops on duty overnight at the emergency intake center take erratic, but not violent behavior, as threatening and overreact, w/ would-be patient ending up in hospital for physical injuries.
Our mental health systems are seriously broken.
tejanarusa @ 209
That’s why California’s program relies on the centralized database of 5150 hospitalizations.
In California (YStatesMMV) involuntary psych hopsitalizations start with 72 hour hold (5150). Involuntary committment is an awesome and awful civil power, and appropriately subject to intense official scrutiny.
All the 5150 hospitalizations are abstracted and the individuals added to the state’s “Do Not Sell” list (along with names of those on restraining orders and with criminal histories forbidding firearms).
100% capture from centralized data allows very effective prevention of firearms purchases.
Gunga Djinn @ 174
I just re-watched that movie the other night. One of my favorites.
Got to go but Cassie on her FrecklesCassie blog in the Top Secret Republican Dictionary post has a Prolife troll who honestly is pushing a science prolife argument I don’t have the abilty to rebute on scientfic grounds. I’m wondering is he a lone nut or if the prolifers do have a new argument they are trying to push. I don’t think he has convinced anybody but he loves appeal to authority you just don’t understand the science argument. Now if anyone with a science backgroud wants to swat a troll that would be cool. Of course I am still concerned that the Prolifers might be trying to create a “Creationalist Science ” for themselves to push their ideas. Gotta go bye!
Sometimes one wonders whether these are conservatives in progressive clothing — like LIEberman or the Nature Conservancy leadership.
If so, it’s a great coup for the right wing. NARAL in incredibly ineffective but by existing they prevent the establishment of an effective abortion rights organization.
Or, conspiracy theories aside, they may just be monumentally incompetent but are rewarded by an lazy membership with high salaries and continued employment year after year. Unfortunately, we progressives can fall into this trap (examples: the incompetent who ran Consumer Reports for 30 years from the late 60s and was responsible for its non-scientific approach to everything; and Gene Upshaw, who the sports world knows as the most incompetent Union leader in history, but has been in the same job for 20 years).
Either way it’s time for progressives to dump NARAL. Give to planned parenthood or moveon.org instead.
Outside of the NARAL issue, the Democrats need to stop pussyfooting around abortion and hit it head on.
Maybe bring a Constitutional amendment to the floor that outlaws all abortions and penalizes the mother with a life sentence.
Force the Republicans to put up or shut up. If you’re against abortion, what will you do to pregnant women who have one?
And also force them to deal with the “exception for rape and incest” issue. If the DO include the exception, then you can legitimately point out that a) the tiny clumps of cells that are the results of rape or incest are no less innocent than other tiny clumps of cells, so b) therefore your opposition to abortion is not about defending “innocent life” but is really about penalizing sex. OTOH, if they don’t include the rape/incest exception the vast majority of America won’t support them because it will seem too heartless.
Ok, maybe those are the best approaches — but I still think a head-on approach to the issue, rather than avoiding the issue because it is “icky” is the way to go. Dems can make this a wedge issue the other way.
Oklahoma kiddo @
77
Better yet, how do those Republicans who claim to be pro-life sleep at night when they support the Iraq disaster?
I just submitted a Google keyword ad pointing to this article. Every time a search for NARAL occurs, a link to this blog post appears at the top of Google. Don’t click the ad, as it costs me $0.05 each time someone clicks.
Hopefully this will send them a message. I will run this for a couple weeks until my budget runs out, but perhaps others can submit ads as well.
BigDogSF @
217
You go, BigDogSF.
I had supported NARAL for years, until they came out in support of Lieberman. A few days after that, I received a phone call asking for more money. I informed the solicitor that I would no longer donate to NARAL, as it was unfathomable how they could throw support to Lieberman. The caller was stunned, apologized for calling, and I’ve never received another call. Jane is right – there is an unhappy link here, and I will NEVER give NARAL another dime. I’ll stay with Planned Parenthood, and consider Blue America PAC. We are heard, the most, when we speak with money. Let NARAL know where they have gone wrong – maybe they will change their approach, if they hear the outrage, and stop getting dollars, from enough of us.
A number of years ago I was awarded the “Reproductive Freedom Award” for my work in the Missouri area for freedom of choice. This award was given by NARAL and a variety of other organizations. I was proud of my work and humbled by the recognition. I am appalled that NARAL has betrayed us all.
Don’t give to Blue America if you are trying to send a message about protecting abortion. Give directly to NAF – the National Abortion Federation. Support the doctors who now have to change their D&E procedures because of this unfair and illogical law.
http://www.prochoice.org/
Got some mail from NARAL a few days ago. Shredded it yesterday.
BTW, why aren’t Alito and Robert’s obvious deceptions during their confirmations being discussed (shameless link warning)?
http://www.rubyan.com/politics…..can_1.html