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I've had the sound off all day on MSNBC because I'm having a hardtime watching them take a bath in the Virginia Tech shootings, but the video they just aired of the shooter really sent me round the twist.
I remember during Columbine there were measures taken to assure that the gunmen's videos and writings didn't get released to the public, and that they did not become cult heros as a result of their actions. It seemed like a bit of decency amidst the mayhem. I really don't know what's to be gained journalistically by broadcasting the killer's videos other than a ratings bonanza, but it seems quite ghoulish.
Drudge, of course, is all over it.
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ZED?
What good can come from showing this?
Jane, you are on a roll today!
Was anyone else creeped out? I’m creeped out.
i too feel there is little newsworthy
in these videos being broadcast — and
i worry more than a little about the
encouragement of copy-catters. . .
very sad. . .
none. no good.
There’s a certain amount of contagion about this kind of behavior. It seems to have to do with breaking through a taboo. Unfortunately releasing videos will probably exacerbate the situation.
Jane - The perpetual coverage of this devastating tragedy is out of control. Does anyone remember the SNL Eddie Murphy skit about Buckwheat?
i will say that if, in one of
his statements, he very specifically
explains why he did it — that
would be newsworthy, but that
could also be transcribed. . .
i do not need to see video of
this obviously deeply distirbed killer.
I’m with ya Jane. Is it really that important to show the video? I mean they don’t release the cockpit voice recordings of airliner crashes immediately after the event although they can describe verbally what they seem to indicate happened.
I agree, Jane.
It’s shameless — and harmful. Why glorify the guy, why give him the notoriety?
I’ve managed to avoid it seeing it so far. I live in Littleton, so I’ve had my share. I did hear a very good piece from one of our survivors on NPR, talking about learning to cope again. I was touched, not just by his words, but merely by the sound of his voice. So deep, so mature, so much older. He’s 26 now. Thank God.
I haven’t had the TV on news at all today. Our 4 year old son would watch with us. Just the pix on the website are creepy, and really unnecessary IMHO. Jane, all of your posts today have been so on target — I’ve almost forgotten that AbuGonzales is on the stand tomorrow…
Jane, just hearing the voice creeped me out.
blergh.
I don’t know which are sicker: the people who like to watch violence/gore, or the people who show the violence/gore ’cause they like money so much.
And each exposure desensitzes viewers - so the violence has to get more and more intense to give the viewers the same neurochemical rush.
Vile, despicable, evil.
I heard this on the radio and was immediately creeped out and thought the FBI certainly wouldn’t release this. The radio said the tapes had been given to the FBI. To think that this guy had murdered 2, went home to send out this mail to NBC (knowing full well how this would be used…just like he checked security at the school with the bomb threats)and then went back to continue the slaughter, well there aren’t any words for this. WE are a culture of death, not life, and every word the president said at the convocation applies to every murdered life and family surrounding that life in Iraq. Oh, but the Supremes say “yes” to life! Keep sounding the alarms Jane and Christy, we hear you!
I really really don’t want to watch that.
I agree. The picture they have on their website with Cho slinging a gun in each hand is very creepy. Worse, I fear that some teenagers out there may think it looks cool.
They should only show the videos after someone has edited a pink Dumbo nose and Mickey Mouse Ears onto the face and given them a Chimpmunk helium voicemask.
solai @ 17
Some kids at my school already do. It is really scary.
amazona @ 15
NBC didn’t pass them on to the FBI without copying them first
I understand the enticement of a journalistic “get”, but this disgusts me.
I wrote MSNBC and told them so.
It is wrong of the Media to create such a Nightmare Circus over this horrible crime. It should not be ignored, of course, but this 24 hour blitz of coverage is Just Plain Wrong.
Fozzetti @ 22
Welcome to the Conservative Dominated Media.
Will you have a table in the Zombie Brain eating section or Mad Cow Disease secion?
Yes. Under the circumstances, the barrage of sad Virginia Tech news obscures some pivotal constitutional machinations. But it is news, and it’s huge - enough to put the Senate’s most important deliberations on pause. Who here is comfortable with withholding information from us, the voting & taxpaying air-owning people, for any reason?
Zee @ 21
good idea
it’s not just creepy - it’s scary. Mixing images of a psychotic killer with other shots of him smiling and appearing normal serves only to serve up generalized, random fear. i.e. no one can ever know whether they’re safe anywhere or anytime.
Message is - be afraid. MBC has done the public a huge disservice here - terrible call to put this stuff on the air. And an even larger one to those at VTech.
American media descends into madness.
I cannot even watch KO…. it’s beyond contemptable how MSM treats a killer or a blonde overdose…yet cannot consider for a few minutes half of the country just had their life threatened by the Theo-Supremes. Cannot prepare the world for Gonzo tomorrow..cannot for a minute acknowledge hundreds of dead Iraqis that died today…cannot even consider a congressmans house was raided by the FBI.
ellwort @ 24
Huge?
That’s considered a good day in Iraq, which all of the Conservatives tell us is safer then any major American city…./*snark
I’m even taking a night off Olbermann because of the VT coverage. I can’t take anymore. It’s all becoming a bit goulish for my taste.
jayt @ 26
The boys in my science class will act it all out in the hallway before class tomorrow.
Jane Hamsher @
4
Totally……
- did they do this because he mailed the stuff to the news outlet?
- did his being the age of majority or over make a difference? 23 versus 16/17 of Klebold & Harris.
So, it’s the press again?
Jane, what would you recommend?
Loo Hoo if you’re here
EPU’d
Loo Hoo @ 80
google NARAL and on page five (now) is a link to Jane’s article, click there.
Eureka Springs @ 28
bread and circuses
SnarKassandra is the wave of the future present among us, and we have to admit the system is so broken it will take a new vision to break the mold and get us moving forward. Vision outside the system can then use the system, but not the other way around.
Pups, we are in Rome deteriorating, and we’re watching it in real time.
We shouldn’t have paid our taxes this week.
I agree with you, Jane. It grants Cho’s wish for posthumous infamy on his twisted terms.
Everythingseemssoneat @
27
- George Washington, 1799?
Elliott @ 35
Fixed.
ellwort @ 24
with all due respect, i don’t think of it
as “withholding information” — and, i think
news outlets do it every day.
it is a balance and judgment call. . . what
is the probative value of the item?
what do we learn from it?
thank god no one chose to show all
the images from jeffrey dahmer’s house.
this is the same, to my eye.
i see that your mileage varies. and that’s cool. . .
p e a c e
Crazy. Elliott @ 34
It’s on the top right now.
Elliot, I don’t want to click the top listing on the left when Jane’s is on the top left. Help!
Amen, sister.
I mean Jane’s is on the top right.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 30
I just turned it off also. It is disgusting. The shooter punked NBC, look at them show their true colors. Sorry KO I never thought I would do this to you but I can’t take it for one second more. CLICK!
lolo
Phule@39
thanks!
NBC got the package, then decided to make their own copies before handing it over to the police. MSNBC’s airing of the content is the result of this. Journalistic integrity alive and well in corporate media driven by profit, yes indeed.
conniptionfit @
12
There’s this story. About one-third of the way down is the video. He cries and he is so heartbreakingly honest about being so frickin’ afraid but somehow managing to think. He’s probably the same age as the gunman.
“IT’S ALL ABOUT ME -
Non journalists usually get tired of hearing ALL news outlets talk about themselves.
“My shit doesn’t stink” while I feign acting professional and caring more about the people in the news, rather than my image is typical.
One should not be surprised at NBC for taking their moment of hubris and glancing at themselves while they walk past a mirror on the way to a short stint in the limelight.
Media LOVES to talk about themselves, more than anything else. Never mind they are MIA and smelling their own fragrance when this disastrous Emperor and his dark lackeys take the country down in stature the last 6 years. Getting them to report on this, is like pulling teeth. Thank god for blogs!
Jane Hamsher @
4
Count me among the creeped out. Turned off KO and Countdown because that’s what they were showing. Thank Dog that my Cincinnati Reds are on the box playing Houston.
Jane Hamsher @
4
I looked at the stills. That was quite enough for me. Made me very very sad. Not a well person.
Loo Hoo @ 42
click on this link for a regular article on the fifth page of searches, don’t click the litle ad
Firedoglake - Firedoglake weblog NARAL: Lying for Lieberman
nolo @
40
1. This falls into the governing by fear that bushco wants. The more news coverage, the more fearful the populace becomes. The more fearful, the higher the ratings of the “news” shows that feed the fear.
2. NBC and MSNBC should not be showing this obscene material. It is wrong. They have validated the shooter - they have given him what he wanted - he is all over the news, and he is inspiring others from the grave because they are showing the video.
I have to wonder what Rove is thinking and plotting right now.
dakine01 @ 50
Josh Hamilton just hit another one out, number 4 ; )
NL Rookie of the Year?
And contrast this unrelenting coverage to the ‘been there, so what?’ coverage of 4 bombings in Baghdad that killed 4x as many people.
At this point Cynicism is the New Optimism.
I am gonna go play basketball. I don’t like politics this week.
Loo Hoo @ 42
Jayeah, don’t click on the little ad, do a google search for NARAL and on the fifth page of results towards the bottom of the page is a link to Jane’s article at FDL, click that link
“Firedoglake - Firedoglake weblog NARAL: Lying for Lieberman”
It appears to be true - sensational violence is profitable, but it’s also true that violence begets violence - which means more coverage…loop de loop de loop…
The key to ridding the subways in NY of the taggers and grafitti artists was the City’s commitment to clean the paint off the cars every night - denying the artists their rolling canvases, which often took many hours to create.
Same thing on these ‘Sensational Shootings’ - we’ve got to commit to keep the trophy stuff out of public circulation.
NBC must not realize that in their zeal for profits, they are legitimizing the forum for the follow-on Chos.
Got three choices from Netflix today and there’s always my shows via TiVO.
Richard Perle was on charlie Rose last night and I managed to catch it to TiVo. That’s one ghoul that creeeps me too. I can’t decide betwixt him or Cheney.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 30
I’m taking a couple of nights off of Olbermann after his rush to attack the VT officials on Monday night. I usually love KO, but it was waaaayyyy too early to be second-guessing.
I don’t see anything newsworthy about showing this video and the pictures. I don’t need to see it - show it to the shrinks and then let them tell law enforcement what we can learn from it. Showing this will just inspire others.
SnarKassandra @ 58
Good choice.
I think this crap serves several purposes. First, it tells every loony on the edge out there that if they do something equally sensational, the media will cover them and give them the national spotlight for days. Second, it provides the goolish and bloodthirsty among us with what they want, blood and guts. Next, the hype and sensationalism provides great ratings which generates money which spells profits. I’m sure I’ve left something out. Any additions?
LooHoo I can’t post
Cozumel @ 56
Works for me! I’m getting the Houston announcers and they wee talking about Narron having tough decisions and I said, “ALL managers would wish to have the tough decisions he has now. Three great outfielders plus a utility man who can play all outfield and most infield positions. No one on the Reds will wear out this year, as long as no injuries…
There are other very troubled people out there who could consider him an example, as the Columbine shooters were an inspiration to him, according to the reporting. I see him as a very troubled, sick, young man in excruciating pain with a completely warped perspective of life. I think it is a major mistake to give his unhealthy thinking a platform and attempt at rationale, and could easily endanger yet more innocent people in the future. His actions speak for themselves.
Loo Hoo @ 42
google NARAL, go to the fifth page and click on the link to FDL, not the ad.
the title is
Firedoglake - Firedoglake weblog NARAL: Lying for Lieberman
Time to go iron.
Rove is so happy that this has taken over the idiot box - teevee - so his dark arts can continue destroying e-mails, and prepping Sampson and Goodling to continue throwing Gonzo under the bus.
His whole plan is to continue the leaks of critical information until the opponents are content with Gonzo’s head to make all this go away.
Our Benighted Emperor will wait, and wait, supporting Gonzo, until such time as he is the last event of interest in this scandal. People will tire of it eventually, as soon as there are no more bombshells to drop. The MSM is waiting for the same thing, because they are reluctantly covering the Corporatist-in-Chief, but with light gloves, until they can get off him, and at their corporate editors quiet, but firm behest.
Corporate States of America will retreat just a little to live for another day while the ignorant masses devote time to watching a circus act in the form of this “Nut-Case” - Cho.
It is real life Jerry Springer. That’s all people have been programmed to want.
loohoo
page 5
article that leads to fdl
lying for lieberman
Yesterday we had complaints here becuase the networks ran their regular programming Monday night.
OMFG. They’re showing vids of and by that sick bastard? Shameless ratings suckers. I will never watch them, ever. Thank whatever Gods there be that I never watch TV, only the ‘net so I can control the horizontal, I can control the vertical… :)
Got it Elliot, thanks.
Another free shiny object for the media to push America’s nose into.
‘Please don’t look at your government, rotten with incompetency and corruption from the head down…That would be icky. Here, look at this psycho killer ‘auslander’ instead….Are you safe?‘
>:(
Even KO isnt covering anything else!
Wont that encourage all mentally ill folks.
Matthews was ghoulish.
Thanks Jane
Jane,
Nobody actually needs to see this.
I’d like to thank NBC and MSNBC for glorifying a monster that snuffed out 32 lives. They’re surely also retraumatizing family members and friends of the lost and wounded as well.
Just in case you’re listening, MSM, our television is off for the foreseeable future.
-S
sorry for overposting, it’s screwy here on my end.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 55
Did you miss the mysterious Blackberry e-mail outage this morning? The Blossom must’ve hit “delete” one too many times.
little rant comming about the gun nutz
the reason the amendment is there is clear, it’s not for hunting, it’s not for personal protection, it’s not to “kill bears” and it’s not to “kill lions” and contrary to anything gun lobbyists try to argue, the amendment is NOT there so you can protect your property, your wife, your kids
it’s there so the state can keep it’s own REGULATED militia, it’s clear and it says it plain as day, that’s a REGULATED constitutional right, that purpose is satisfied without letting people keep nuclear bombs which are of course REGULATED away from personal ownership (of course I think there might actually be some nuts that will argue this point but they are after all nuts)
the right of “the people” in this amendment does not read “the right of each person”, it does not read “the right of a person”, it reads “the right of the people”
then to make it crystal clear the constitution tells us in with unmitigated language why that amendment is there and that the right IS REGULATED
there are some people that think they can twist the meaning of the constitutional amendment to suit their fetish for blowing things up but there it is
the constitutional right to keep and bare arms has a storied history but it’s clear there are arms that are not protected…”to keep and bare arms” doesn’t mean you can keep a nuclear bomb, a flame thrower, ballistic missiles, a chemical cache, nor a host of arms that are clearly excluded from this “constitutional right” since it clearly talks about a “regulated” malitia
the only thing that MIGHT not excluded by the amendment is “a gun”
this doesn not mean any gun, it does not mean a pistol, it means a gun
you can keep a gun, the government can and should regulate any guns that are clearly a public threat so long as you get to keep some form of A gun, the amendment CLEARLY states this amendment is for a REGULATED malitia…simple stuff
for instance, who would argue that a “gun” that shot nuclear waste is excluded by this constitutional amendment?…show me a person that thinks ownership of a gun that shot nuclear waste is constitutionaly protected and I’ll show you a moron…the very same “regulation” easily excluds pistols, machine guns, flame throwers, nuclear bombs, etc
that’s why single shot rifles should never be excluded but there is no question the government can and should exclude certain “arms” and everyone agrees with this
now, don’t get the wrong idea here, though I am usually a liberal I am probably more on the Conservative side of the fence when it comes to guns…but there are people that are so insecure about their point of view they make things up to justify their opinion
Maybe it will finally wake up America. It seems that nowadays, Americans don’t think something is REAL unless they SEE it.
I hope so, anyway.
Elliot,
You didn’t over post. I just didn’t want to click on the wrong thing. What’s up with the NARAL gizmo on the top right that says Firedoglake? Why NOT click on that? I went to page 5, just wondering.
OT, EPU’d, asking again, sorry if I missed any prev answer: Does FDL have any RSS feeds that show not just the Mods’ great posts, but all this fun badinage by the ‘Pups as well? /OT
Seineman @ 64
“every loony on the edge”
Compassion seems to be missing.
Elliott @ 59
That’s not listed on my fifth page (or neighboring pages) of Google results but a google search of “lying for lieberman” found the page.
The video and photos were terrifying. But the wall-to-wall coverage of every detail proves that the networks have finally found a way to get me to stop watching the news. Ah, Finance Committee hearings!
The kid was crying for help and noone could help.
America is crying too and there doesnt seem as if there is much we can do.
Even EW says on her blog that Congress is pretty much powerless
darkblack @ 75
“Scare-a-thon Man, you know the drill”
Keith has a professional on now how is telling him that these videos should not be shown.
Bout time everyone quit watchin the tube filled with crap about this sick loser fuck.
Worst Person in the World Today - Keith Olbermann.
Props to those who wonder if he’s been taken over by the creeping Kool-Aid crowd. I’m sure Keith eventually got around to covering something other than the latest ‘crazed gunman kills many’ story but I am sick of the dam story.
I normally enjoy KO, but this is so obviously out of the realm of his usual material that you know it has to be ‘an order from on high’ that he’s doing it. Or at least I’d like to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Enjoy.
brownandserve @ 85
for me, it’s the 50th entry
This footage is scary, no question. But perhaps its not so bad for the NRA types, and those who have given up on meaningful gun control, to see the face of a person exercising the supposed right to bear arms.
This is information. You can’t hide it in a box because it freaks you out.
I couldn’t see my posts on Firefox, switched to IE and they were there?
Can’t even watch KO. Didn’t want to watch any news tonight. That NEVER happens in this house. Watching Daily Show and Colbert instead.
With today’s SCOTUS atrocity, I recommend finding and reading the book The Fourth Procedure. Jane, there is a movie in this book that would bring all of the pro-choice women of America flooding into the movie theaters. If you haven’t read it, find it.
Well, that horse is now outa the media barn and will probably be the most hit link on YouTube by tomorrow.
Wonderful.
nrglaw @ 92
I couldn’t agree more
my general inattention to TV is further validated.
Loo Hoo @ 82
I’m having trouble with preview and submitting posts and I kept posting and posting, not seeing anything come up. But then I’d see the post did go through, so I was apologizing for being annoying about it.
The media is making a star out of this creep. And after the next inevitable shootings, they’ll wring their hands and ask why? This is why. You can kill you way to infamy. How hopelessly sad.
I just finished reading the abortion opinion (Gonzales v. Carhart) and I have to say that Dr. Kennedy wrote one hell of a goofy opinion. Like Roberts’ dissent in Massachusetts v. EPA (pressing for the EPA to do its job and address CO2 and global warming), these guys are just making it up as they go along. They decide based on their prejudice and ignorance and then string together some half-*ssed rationale to support their decision.
Personally, I think out of respect for his parents if nothing else, a decent interval should have been allowed to elapse before the friggin’ video was aired. To continue the voice data recorder analogy, if he’d deliberately crashed a plane with 33 passengers into a mountain, I think they wouldn’t have released the recording the day after out of respect for the pilot’s family.
Turned off the news (tv & radio) several hrs. ago. The saturation coverage of Seung-Hui & the killings was starting to make me physically ill…
He gamed the media & got what he wanted on every level.
What about the killing spree in Baghdad today? Does that simply not matter unless you were there or know someone who was?
Puesto @
70
Back in late 1984, my wife and I moved to a community where we could get TV after living TV-less for about eight years. One of the first programs we tuned in to was Morton Downey, Jr’s. trash talk TV spot. He was the prototype on TV for Springer and the prototype on radio for Limbaugh. And their ilk.
After watching Downey’s show twice, we seriously checked on possibly emigrating to Iceland or Norway. Instead, we turned the TV back off until 2004.
Seineman @ 64
It suffocates important issues like Republican Scandals, which makes Republican Officials happy.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 55
he’s probably relazxing now that he got his friends at Blackberry to install all new servers last night, wiping out all his other emails.
Hugh @ 101
When you’re a Supreme, you can do whatever you wish. You get the final word, however banal or contradictory to your prior opinions. Just look at Legend-in-His-Own-Mind Scalia.
Narcissist gone Mad! (Cho and the American people)
Catching up! Have folks seen “Cho’s manifesto” at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18...../18169776/ Cho sent a video of himself and a 1800 word diatribe to NBC. Very intense. I am sure they will never let anything air that implicates anyone of abusing him (if that happenned). This young man was so angry, so ill, so out of his mind. How did he get there?
While all of us are deeply saddenned by the VT tragedy. Many Americans seem to be suffering from a national collective narcissism.
And as Juan Cole points out over at Informed Comment http://www.juancole.com/ “Iraq has almost two Virginia Techs every day.” The Iraqi people have to be completely numb from the death and destruction. They have to wonder what the hell is up with the American people, why we do not consider their tragedies as important as the VT tragedy. We created the fiasco in Iraq!
Let’s be honest most Americans could give a flying fuck about the deaths in Iraq. Most Americans have their pedals to the metal and their heads up their own asses. Do we see Chris Matthews and Brian Williams addressing the deaths, attempting to interview (on line there are ways) the family members of the Iraqi people who are being obliterated by this war every day. Does the media show us the blown up bodies of children who have been killed in explosions in Iraq.
We are all responsible for the Bush administrations invasion of Iraq (even though many of us worked our asses off trying to stop it before it started). The Brian Williams, Chris Matthews, and Olbermann’s of the MSM are responsible for the deaths and destruction taking place. They mention the numbers of deaths in Iraq each day, but that’s it. No interviews with those effected no on line condolence pages etc etc.
What has happenned to our nation, Americans really are not connnecting the dots..we have caused the deaths of 650,ooo Iraqi people who knows how many are injured and 2 million Iraqi refugees.
The Bush administration and our media have dehumanized the Iraqi people and the majority of American people are perfectly happy not to feel any responsiblity for what is taking place in Iraq in our name. The illegal invasion and the failed attempts to win any peace, created the enviroment for a genocide to take place in Iraq. How can anyone possibly wonder why people around the world fear and hate us.
punaise @ 97
I’m with you. I watch the first part of Olbermann usually, Stewart and Colbert. I can’t stand any of the shouting stuff including commercials. Why do they turn the commercials up? My only reaction to that is to turn the television off.
George Soros, the billionaire investor, has added his voice to the debate over the role of Israel’s lobby in shaping US foreign policy.
In the current issue of the New York Review of Books, Soros takes issue with “the pervasive influence of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee [A*P*C]” in Washington and says the Bush administration’s close ties with Israel are obstacles to a peace deal between Israel and the Palestinians.
Soros, who is Jewish but not often engaged in Israeli affairs, echoed arguments that have fuelled debate in academia, foreign policy think tanks and parts of the US Jewish community.
Edited ** by Mod
raven @ 94
so it wasn’t just me?
Phule @ 105
It went rather unnoticed today that the RNC agrees (of course) that White House laywers should first review ALL emails that went from their servers to the WH before turning anything over to Congress.
Of course.
Tim Fuller @
91
In KO’s defense, I have to believe he is directed to cover cr*p like this by his producers. Especially since NBC News was the recipient of the package.