You know, one of the many things that always amazes me about Reich Wing Doublethink is their selective blindness. People like Michelle Malkin raise all kinds of holy hell about the dangers of Sharia Law at the public pool, but when it comes to Bush Dynasty BFF's Saudi Arabia, nary a peep about the horrific plight of women, children, gays, survivors of sexual assault, and other victims of radical Islam's Medievalist views of gender and sexuality.
Maybe the Malkintents like Saudi Arabia because in their heart of hearts they secretly yearn for the lash on their backs. They long for that kind of iron-fisted, authoritarian religious dogma to govern their lives, a world where everyone's roles are circumscribed by a two-thousand-year-old, poorly translated, politically freighted book. They yearn for a culture where men are men, women are little better than appliances, and gender equality is a concept only slightly less far-fetched than a talking dog that speaks English and Arabic.
From a Human Rights Watch Report (February, 2007):
In interviews with roughly 100 Saudi women academics, educators and medical professionals, Human Rights Watch documented how male guardianship of adult women denies women the right to employment, education, health, and freedom of movement. Government policy often explicitly requires male consent for a range of everyday activities. This system, premised on the idea that women have limited or no legal capacity to act on their own behalf, affects all Saudi women across economic or social divides. While guardianship is construed as a form of protection for women, in fact, it fails to protect some of their most basic rights.
Which brings us to news anchor Buthayna Nasser (h/t to Jessica!) today's winner of Feministing's Bad-Ass Woman of the Day award. Jessica sez:
Buthayna Nasser is a Saudi newscaster, and goddamn she is awesome. Not to mention brave.
Amen to that! Watch the clip above and see Buthayna take no prisoners in a Lebanese TV debate with a radical Muslim cleric who is basically a Saudi Jerry Falwell in that he apparently believes that women (and sodomites, too, presumably) who aren't properly oppressed will cause people in New York and Washington to hijack planes and fly them into skyscrapers in Riyadh. Or something.
Let's go to the transcript, shall we?
Nasser al Huneini: What we want is for women to reveal their culture and intellect. We want women to play a role in the development of society. But a woman who insists upon appearing on TV insists upon showing her body. Why do we act unjustly toward women by saying that we can only benefit from them by presenting them to people this way?
Gosh, why does that sound weirdly familiar? Well, never mind that for now. He goes on for a few minutes about the evils of women uncovering their neck and hair, or (Allah forbid!) wearing makeup or jewelry. Buthanya responds:
Buthayna Nasser: Sir, when I appear on TV, and when I claim my right to play a role in this professional field, I demand that my face, which constitutes my identity, be shown. Under no circumstances am I prepared to let my identity be obliterated.
Who are these people who would decide for me how I should behave? Why do you treat me as less qualified because I am a woman? Why is there always a male voice deciding how I should behave? The Lord created me equal to you in my duties, punishment, and reward. When you fast, I fast. When you pray, I pray. When you steal, your hand is cut off. When I steal, mine is cut off. This is the greatest evidence that I am not less qualified. I know what I am doing, and I know how to maintain my honor.
Right ON, Ms. Nasser! That's the freakin' spirit!
Buthayna Nasser: You who frighten people with hell have brought them a hell on earth.
Whoa, dude. Is she talking to Muslim clerics or George W. Bush?
No matter. Buthayna, we're booking you in a slot to debate Rush Limbaugh later this week, followed by John Gibson, Bill O'Reilly, and Michael Smerconish. Then if you're up to it, we want you to take on Kate O'Beirne, okay? Great. I'll call you! Let's do lunch!
Related posts:





Spotlight
ZED!
J U S T I C E !!!
TRex!
oh lord.
DELBERT!
Hey TRex!
Hokies!
Evening, gang! Buthayna Nasser is my new hero.
Guitar_Playing_Bastard @ 4
RAWKS!
Righy on lady! Keep it up. The women around the world need you.
Buthayna Nasser is my new hero.
I’d love to see her take on Pammalammadingdong and DebbieSchluSSel.
Good on ya, Buthanya!
Teh Malkintents don’t say anything about the Saudis cuz they’re our FRIENDS.
Why the Chimpenfuhrer holds hands with teh Saudi ambassador and King when they visit him in Crawford at play ranch. No matter that they supplied 15 out of 19 of the 9/11 folks as well as Bin laden. No Sirree bob. They’re our FRIENDS.
Why Mr Cheney went and got their permission for us to have a surge. Becuz they’re our FRIENDS.
And if they say it loud enough and long enough, some folks might actually believe it.
(Pls pardon OT… EPU’d)
——————————
Feeling adventuresome? Interested in who else is in the FDL community, and where they are? Maybe get in touch with them via anonymous message?
Hope to see you on our unofficial FirePup Fan map. Pls don’t forget to pick the right pin for yourself, and to add a fun “shoutout” and maybe a pic.
——————————
… and now we return you to your regularly-scheduled thread… :)
Wow! what an amazing video! I have a zillion tons of respect for the Saudi broadcaster.
SnarKassandra @ 15
Me, too. I wanted to stand up and cheer when she said she will absolutely not consent for her identity to be obliterated.
sorry to offer some actual
*cough* content, here — please
ignore, if it is not to your
liking, but tonight we learn
that special counsel to the
president is directing the
r.n.c. not to turn over any
emails to john conyers’ comm-
ittee until fred fielding
is able to pre-screen them.
wait. i thought the r.n.c.
and the white house were two
separate places. i guess i’ll
need schroedinger’s cat to
sort it all out. . .
we now return you to full-on
snark — in industrial size drums.
i heard that michelle malkin asked
that all koreans living in the united
states be interred until all native-
born americans are issued new assault
weapons, with their to-come national ID cards. . .
coming — from gonzales co. — in early 2008.
Is it okay for not-men to be not-citizens inside Saudia Arabia according to the wisdom of the rightwing screeching harpies like Coulter and
MaulkkkinWilma?Do you suppose she was educated in Western schools, and has decided to bring the “women’s wisdom” home?
I wonder. I’ll check Wiki. She should be there.
TRex @ 16
Now I have a new role model to add to my collection. So far …. Ann Richards, Molly Ivins, Barbara Jordan, Helen Thomas, and now Buthayna Nasser.
I’ve seen her before. A true pioneer facing ubelievable peril.
Watching Buthanya makes you realize just how atrocious Katie Couric is as a journalist/anchor. Making Couric the CBS anchor was another Les Moonves move, wasn’t it? There were so many options even if CBS were set on hiring a female anchor. Gwen Ifill would make an excellent major network anchor. Did you see Gwen and Eugene Robinson embarrass the “old boy” network on Meat the Press last week? I guess hiring Ifill would’ve taken vision and courage….ha! silly me…
TRex — would you be offended if I write about Buthayna Nasser on my blog tomorrow?
Object lesson in this–Muslim women are not pleased by the likes of Karen Hughes lecturing them on what they should think, because they are perfectly able to think for themselves, as Buthayna Nasser more than adequately demonstrates.
I wonder if we could really get her here to debate. Not debate us any conversation we have with her would be interesting. But Glen Beck or some other Muslim hater. Of course there could be no prepreared questions or giving Glen the off switch for the mike. Wait I know we could spread the story that Glenn and O’Reily are afarid to debate Muslim women without turning off the mike or screaming when they start to lose.
happy birthday to Louis le chat, one year…
(a b-day shared with punaise jr. – 18!)
good evening firedogs, let me catch up…
punaise @ 26
What a gorgeous kitty!
nolo @ 17
If the RNC is taking orders from the WH then we can go after the RNC! Do these fools want all their Emails open? Christy and Jane would have a field day!
I went to Saudi Arabia to play music for a month for Aramco in the mid 80s. There were two women and four men in the band. The guys were put up in the opulent Dhahran International hotel (the one they broadcast the Gulf War from). The lead singer and I were put up in a small dormitory on the compound. We were not allowed to stay in a hotel. All the newspapers were either blacked out with markers or the objectionable articles were simply cut out of them. If we left the compound, we had to be covered (although with the heat, I have to say I was glad.)
The ban on alcohol was only for show. In people’s private homes, they made ‘bathtub beer’ and moonshine. I noticed that on the plane out, as soon as we were off the ground, off came the headgear and out came the booze, and the opposite on the way in.
It was an eye-opening experience, to say the least.
punaise @ 26
Looking very composed, for a formal portrait. :)
things come undone @ 25
I would like to see her debate anyone! Who in hear has heard of her before today?
punaise @
26
bonne anniversaire, Louis le chat et punaise jr! Quelle chat!
Humm. Which book would that be?
LoudounLib @ 28
So nice that furniture matches the cat!
nolo @ 17
Yah, it worked out so well when Senator John Stennis, deaf as a post, was designated as official screener and transcriber of the WH tapes in the Watergate affair. Don’t these assclowns read history? I know Fred Fielding was there. Has he lost his marbles??
Gotta love that typo. I wish that Malkin woulda actually said that… :) (my bold)
montag @ 31
Oh he is beautiful!!!!
SnarKassandra @ 23
Not at all!
AZ Matt, that was perfect wasn’t it? ;-)
punaise @ 26
Starin’ at a bug…
Cutie!
punaise @ 26
He’s a great cat!
Reminds me of Sojourner Truth’s Ain’t I a Woman? speech:
You can add Sojourner to your list, too, Snarkassanda.
While you’re at it, you can put Jane Hamsher and Christy Hardin Smith on the list as well.
punaise @ 26
There’s still something a little diabolical in the tilt of his head, I think.
What an amazing woman. I’m cheering, I’m almost weeping for her bravery and her fluency, her ability to speak, and not falter.
One of her arguments is that God honors us by allowing us free will, and that is just what I argue to certain right winger fundamentalists. It doesn’t seem to go over here any better than it does there, sad to say.
I like the dudes arguement in the video:
“Our little soldiers will make Oscar de la Tentas if wimmens show some hide. We cannot tempt the gods of Cyclops, and would not be responsible for our own actions if some harlot tramps around in skimpy outfits creating lusty tan lines around their necks and ankles.”
TRex @ 42
Is he a companion of The Vampire Lescat?
Calgary 1, Detroit 0-
8:30 2nd.
Thanks, punaise, for sharing the pic of Louis. A little dose of “kitty therapy” was definitely needed after the VA Tech tragedy.
Please contact your representatives!
What if it was you?
Honorable Congressman Putnam,
Your thoughts about the senseless killings at Virginia Tech were very touching. We as Americans should be and are extremely distressed by this senseless violence. In a country of 300 million, to lose 30 young, innocent, students for nothing is a national tragedy. I’m with you 100% in concern for their parents and friends!
Now, imagine you are an average citizen in Iraq. Imagine trying to raise your children and get them the best education you can. Imagine in a country of only 30 million, over 30 innocent citizens die EVERY DAY! EVERY SINGLE DAY over 30 innocent citizens are killed by someone they don’t even know. Killed not by American soldiers, they are only doing their duty and God bless them, but through senseless sectarian violence for which our warmongering is responsible.
I realize as Senator Graham related you can get 5 rugs for 5 dollars which will look great in his den. The Iraqi people can only use these rugs to wrap their loved ones for their funeral.
The next time you vote, please think of what I’ve said.
Peace!
PeeJ
Colossians 3:23
TRex: Thanks for the video! I am not worthy to kiss that woman’s feet.
OT one VT student did try to stop the shooter and was shot in the chest. He died today.
LoudounLib @ 47
Click here if you want to see cats inside computers and in the couch and stuff. And a puppy playing chess.
montag @ 24
There were female heads of state in Pakistan, India, Israel decades ago, and in the US, people still think it is a big deal.
Calgary 1, Detroit 1-
7:20 2nd.
Phoenix Woman @ 49
You are much too modest PW!
SnarKassandra @ 32
I will admit that I had not…but I am impressed. It could do American women no harm if her name became a household word here, too.
mulligatawny @ 51
And it took a woman to make a man out of England.
Cassie, thank you too – very cute pics there! ;-)
WOW! I love this diary and video. What a woman, what a person, what a humna being. So eloquent and real.
I was mistaken in my earlier comment. This is a different woman. I have not seen her before.
Snarkassandra, in media…Christiane Amanpour and Lara Logan.
Sidebar: In popular fiction, Jodi Picoult, who writes on difficult subjects and was just profiled in the UK Guardian has a new book out about a school shooting. She visited Columbine for her research. Knowledge is power.
Damn, she’s wonderful! I don’t think there are very many American women in the MSM who would be that damned kick-ass! Imagine if a Katie Couric got some of that drivel from Falwell or Robertson. She’d mewl and raise a paw in anger, but she’d slink away the second he patted her on the head and gave her a few condescending compliments.
OT: Watching Richard Perle so you don’t have to.
Sorry, I’m gonna have to bail.
This walking, full-body human sphincter is still pushing the Saddam-Al Qaeda links; claims he’s never heard anyone mention Iraq connections to 911; meets face-to-face with anti-war protesters on The Mall, lies to their faces, then smirks & walks away; says Afghanistan is a thriving Democracy because of our dead soldiers; says “WE will not pull out upon suffering the first casualty”; say’s “The Left is obsessed with the idea of American Imperialism, is being led by Hollywood Liberals, and is fighting a war against war criminals and war profiteers; says if JFK were alive today, he would be denounced as a Neocon…
Filmed almost a year ago, based on dead troop number being quoted.
Who gave this piece of crap 60 minutes of national air time to spread his vile, obsolete pack of lies? That’s what I want to know.
(sorry…this is beyond incredible)
LJ/Aquaria @ 61
Mother Couric and her Children.
punaise @ 26
So sweet Punaise. Happy Birthday Louis and Punaise Jr.
Gunga Djinn @ 61
Gary Kamiya @ Salon has your back…
Oilfieldguy @ 57
That’s just obscure enough that I’m not sure if you mean Margaret Thatcher, or Queen Elizabeth I.
:)
But, these days, Brits are rethinking Maggie’s historical role, especially with her having made the health care system much less workable and more expensive.
Gunga, I read somewere that PBS salvaged this series from the failed rethug coup but were unable to can this episode.
Nova featured the search for the “first flower” in Chinese alpine gardens. Beautiful. Look for it at pbs.org to cleanse the eyes and spirit of the predatious mellifluator Perle.
Perhaps a spotlight of Ms. Nasser to the folks at 60 Minutes? Or 360? Or…?
Since 1996, here are some sobering statistics*:
Country Massacres People killed in massacres
Australia 0 0
United States 9 93
The US has had Jonesboro in 1998, Columbine in 1999, Wichita in 2000, Red Lake in 2005, Goleta, Capitol Hill and the Amish school in Pennsylvania in 2006, Trolley Square earlier this year and now Blacksburg*. Australia has had none*.
That’s just gun massacres folks. Guns, sorry PEOPLE with guns, kill at least 30,000 people in the US each year. In Australia, it’s more like 300, most of which are suicide. Yet opinion polls consistently show that Americans believe poor parenting and violent movies and video games are greater causes of gun violence than gun ownership.
I didn’t write that. I read it here.
This is interesting too:
Prairie Sunshine,
Thanks for the tip about Jodi Picoult’s new book. I’m a fan.
Cassie, thanks for the pics, I especially like the kitty in the window. What’s he thinking? “I have GOT to get on that treadmill. Oh, who am I kidding?”
SnarKassandra @
20
Add Sarah Weddington, the woman who argued Roe v. Wade before the Supreme Court. When she was only 30 years old. And another Texan for your list (Richards, Ivins, Jordan).
SnarKassandra @ 69
A Chimp hovering in 30% territory will rationalize anything – wait a… oh. Sorry.
LJ/Aquaria @ 71
Add Sarah Weddington, the woman who argued Roe v. Wade before the Supreme Court. When she was only 30 years old. And another Texan for your list (Richards, Ivins, Jordan).
Cool, thanks!
After seeing that video of Buthayna Nasserthat, it occurs to me that women could result in a transformational downfall of oppressive radical Islam far greater than all the TNT in the world.
Muzzy @ 74
I just hope they don’t stop there. There’s oppressive radical Christianity to contend with, too.
Muzzy @
76
I think you may be on to something. Of course, even there, undoubtedly some Malkin-type will clutch ever tighter to her burqa and screech, “Stop! No! Oppression is GOOD!!” so that the men will love her more.
OT, I missed this earlier.
Via Josh:
Damn, It’s that place with the turd floating in it…
Phoenix Woman @ 50
excuse me… I beg to differ, you are also fabulous, PW….)
SnarKassandra @ 71
Did you notice that Bush only got short, polite applause, yet the VT President got a long standing applause.
The Bl*ck P*nther guy had it right. Malkin and the rest of them (Limbaugh, O Leilly, Beck, Susteren, Couric, etc.) are in it for the money.
This Muslim woman is good. It is unfortunate that she feels that she must invoke the sky god (who is most assuredly chauvinistic – theirs or ours – take your pick) to make her point. But, whatever works. Unfortunately, its the zeitgeist (thanks in large part to the ascension of the right and its massive media apparatus).
TRex,
Again, you’re the best.
Thanks!
you can still have guns,but it’s pretty strict.
licence,lockable cabinet etc.
22’s for rabbits and foxes and feral cats.
shotguns for ducks(yum but spit out the pellets)
303’s for roo shooting.
that was the scene in my 50’s childhood.
22’s and shotties are the same now,not sure about the 303’s.
people killers definitely no.
when reading the stats keep in mind the difference in populations.
Here’s a story.
Today I went to the Gap to trade in a shirt I got on line that wasn’t as cool in person as it was on my monitor. I got a pair of deep, deep indigo overdyed jeans that fit me like they were made for me…for FIFTEEN BUCKS!! (Which was four dollars less than my return.)
This incredibly sweet, incredibly cute, broad-shouldered, handsome guy named Joseph helped me with my purchase. I left the store and couldn’t stop thinking about him.
I called multiple friends and the consensus was, “Call him up and ask him out.”
I did.
He’s hetero. I lose. And I’m totally embarrassed.
Still, nothing ventured, right?
Pectopah @ 79
Which reminds me…how prophetic were we last night? I freely admit that I’ve been avoiding media coverage of
that bastard’s shameless exploitation ofBush’s participation in the grieving process.TRex @ 83
You wear jeans? From the gap? In size 60-ft-tall?? No way!!!
TRex – nothing ventured, nothing gained.
TRex @ 84
You shoulda bought the $30 pair.
EvilDrPuma @ 86
Was there some sort of giant banner above him saying something like, “Securing America’s Campuses”???
SnarKassandra @ 69
Thanks, Cassie. I haven’t gotten involved much in the gun discussions that have dominated many of the threads here for the past day, because it’ll just annoy me, but I appreciate posts as clear-cut as the one you linked to.
I don’t expect anything to change much in the near future, but one of my hopes is that if the GOP continues to marginalize itself as a rural southeastern regional party, we may one day have sane gun legislation in this country.
One of my favorite female journalists was Dorothy Thompson. She was the first foreign correspondent Hitler expelled from Germany. I think it was after what she wrote about the Night of the Long Knives….
Suzanne @ 86
“It is better to have loved and lost than to have listened to an album by Olivia Newton-John.”
–Holly, Red Dwarf
TRex @ 83
TRex
In the most hetero way I can say this: You have the balls of a loin. That’s nothing to be embarrassed about.
Great post, Trex! Great content, plus a nice giggle with the term “Malkintent” ;)
I still want to know if Rachel Paulose will be bringing her color guard with her when she is interviewed by Conyers. Any bets on that?
newtonusr @ 47
tied at two at the end of the second period.
Go Wings!
(Actually, I’m kinda glad to see Calgary playing a good game. But I still gotta say Go Wings.)
Al Jazeera gets toe hold in Toledo, Ohio
http://www.voanews.com/english…..N=58939223
may @ 84
sorry,this is about cassies post on oz.
Heading out.
See you in a bit, gang.
Gunga Djinn @ 63
I watched more of it than I would like to admit and it just got worse as the show progressed. Absolutely no acknowledgement of who he really is or his role in insuring this country ran off the robber baron cliffs while sending iraq back hundreds of years.. it’s fuc***n incendiary! never in my life have I been so upset with PBS.
Now Charlie Rose is serving the whole cast up with another round of blatent lies form the same PNACers….
[insert loud scream here]
Newtonusr said
TRex
In the most hetero way I can say this: You have the balls of a loin. That’s nothing to be embarrassed about.
Or the balls of a lion, either way.
Peterr:
I had the exact same thought of the similarities with Sojourner Truth’s speech. I first read Ain’t I a Woman in college in the 70’s; I still have the paperback textbook and recently read it aloud on separate occasions to my niece and my daughter (both adults), neither of whom had ever heard of Sojourner. If I could travel back in time to witness one speech, I would choose that one.
SnarKassandra @ 87
Indigo colored jeans?? They’ll make you look like Barney!
landofthefree @ 93
Surrendered my teevee rights a few minutes ago. Thanks for the update.
Oooooh. Found a great Dorothy Thompson quote that might resonate today (Dorothy definitely fueled the ideas behind Sinclair Lewis’s It Can’t Happen Here–they were married, y’know).
Anyway…
“No people ever recognize their dictator in advance. He never stands for election on the platform of dictatorship. He always represents himself as the instrument [of] the Incorporated National Will. … When our dictator turns up you can depend on it that he will be one of the boys, and he will stand for everything traditionally American. And nobody will ever say `Heil’ to him, nor will they call him `F�hrer’ or `Duce.’ But they will greet him with one great big, universal, democratic, sheeplike bleat of `O.K., Chief! Fix it like you wanna, Chief! Oh Kaaaay!’” (1937)
Gee…. That does sound familiar… Maybe not as poetic as the fascism will come wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross, but still…
UGH!!!!!!!!
Reid warns against rush on gun control
WASHINGTON – After the worst mass shooting in U.S. history, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (news, bio, voting record) cautioned Tuesday against a “rush to judgment” on stricter gun control. A leading House supporter of restrictions on firearms conceded passage of legislation would be difficult.
“I think we ought to be thinking about the families and the victims and not speculate about future legislative battles that might lie ahead,” said Reid, a view expressed by other Democratic leaders the day after the shootings that left 33 dead on the campus of Virginia Tech.
Democrats traditionally have been in the forefront of efforts to pass gun control legislation, but there is a widespread perception among political strategists that the issue has been a loser in recent campaigns. It was notably absent from the agenda Reid and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (news, bio, voting record) unveiled earlier this year when the party took control of the House and Senate for the first time in more than a decade.
In the wake of the Virginia Tech shootings, a few Democrats renewed the call for gun control legislation, and more are expected to join them.
……….
hackworth @ 98
oops
TRex @ 85
Why be embarassed? You got some hot cheap pants, and you complimented a nice hetero guy in the process. (Hey, any smart straight guy should realize that it’s quite a compliment to be asked out by a cute, smart gay man!)
Isn’t it better to have asked him out and be turned down because he’s straight, instead of just thinking about it for a week and beating yourself up for not asking him out?
TRex @ 83
That’s right. I myself am flattered if a girl hits on me, even though I’m straight.
EvilDrPuma @
77
I friend who hosted a dialogue on “women’s rights” between a Lubovich Rabbi, a Saudi Imam, an Assembly of God pastor and a conservative Theravada Thai Buddhist monk, observed to me that the one thing which unified the four was their earnest belief that women’s rights are limited compared to those of males.
Margot @ 71
Check out the Guardian article…don’t have the linky but it’d be worth tracking down.
Emma @ 99
That speech chilled me to the bone.
Does Cassie know about Sojourner Truth?
SnarKassandra @ 102
Well, I still won’t have a gun in my house. Spin on that, Charlton Heston.
may @ 95
huh?
EvilDrPuma @ 112
Um…. I’m sure enve the NRA crowd are keeping guns out of Chuck’s hands these days.
Get off of my campus, you damned dirty Chimp.
-GSD
SnarKassandra @ 87
I think the size is called ReXXXtra Large
Good night all. First of three STUPID TAKS tests in the morning and I must be well rested with lots of #2 pencils. AAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
See ya tomorrow!
LJ/Aquaria @ 111
Yeah, I know, but I couldn’t recall off the top of my head who the nutjob is that they’ve got running the NRA. Is there a “Wayne” in his name, by any chance?
I’m sorry, I still don’t think there is anything wrong or untoward about the President going to VT today. This is the biggest massacre in this country’s history, and it’s his job to help be, as Christy put it this morning, the “Healer-in-Chief”. It would be really wrong for him to ignore this tragic event, and I think he would have received plenty of criticism from the left if he did not attend the memorial (unless VT asked him to not attend). We may not like him, but I don’t think we should turn his appearance into a political event – it was a time when we needed our President to be Presidential, no matter who holds the office.
Yes, it’s tragic that he doesn’t meet with families of those killed & maimed in our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yes, I despise his policies and can’t help but find him nauseating. But he is the President, and our nation is in mourning.
landofthefree @ 116
He’s not my President, and you can’t make him be.
newtonusr – do you want a game update? There has been another goal scored, but I won’t tell you who scored it in case you’re taping the game.
Oh, and “you have the balls of a loin” is freaking hilarious! I was wondering what exactly you meant by that… I didn’t catch the potential for typo.
Alicia,
Me, too….still chills down my spine when I read it, and when I read it aloud, tears in my eyes and a huge lump in my throat. As I recall, that speech was delivered in 1849 at a women’s convention with Elizabeth Cady Stanton (another hero of mine) and other feminist leaders speaking, including John Stuart Mill, and Sojourner’s speech brought the house down. What an amazing and brave woman.
landofthefree @ 116
But maybe tomorrow would be better than today, at least for the police and stuff.
EvilDrPuma @ 115
Either that or a “Lee”
SnarKassandra @ 120
Funny thing, I don’t remember Clinton going to Columbine…and, for once, I don’t even remember the wingnuts griping about it.
LJ/Aquaria @
73
Add Sarah Weddington, the woman who argued Roe v. Wade before the Supreme Court. When she was only 30 years old. And another Texan for your list (Richards, Ivins, Jordan).
Toss in Fannie Lou Hamer of the Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party…
SnarKassandra @ 113
I clicked the link at 70.
martin bryant is kept away from everybody else in prison for his own protection.
sorry if a margin broke.
iggrant technophobe here.
Alicia @ 124
Hey, take it easy there!
The NRA chief is Wayne “Jackbooted Thugs” LaPierre…My how French.
-GSD
Evil Dr: I think his name is Cain Robertson or something like that.
land of the free @ 116
Biggest massacre? Isn’t that a bit of hyperbole? Or do Native Americans not count?
landofthefree @ 118
Love updates, yes thanks.
And you noticed the “In the most hetero way I can say this…” typo.
EvilDrPuma – he is my President. I despise his policies and actions, I think he’s a despicable and stupid man, but he is my President. And, as President, it’s his job to acknowledge our country’s sorrow. He didn’t doesn’t do it with our war dead, he didn’t do it with Katrina, but at least he did it today.
Just like Clinton and Gore were involved with public mourning after the OK city bombing and the Columbine massacre, it is Bush’s job to be there at the memorial today. It is what Presidents are supposed to do.
Pedant point:
“authoritarian religious dogma to govern their lives, a world where everyone’s roles are proscribed by a two-thousand-year-old, poorly translated, politically freighted book.”
In the context you’re using, I think you mean to say prescribed. Proscribe means to “denounce or condemn something as dangerous”.
That is all.
landofthefree @ 129
No, it isn’t.
President Bush has spent the last 4 years calling me and every other American who disagrees with his policies a pack of terrorist appeasers.
He has lost the right to any respect and dignity afforded the office of president.
-GSD
landofthefree @ 132
I agree – what made me sad, listening to the clips, is how perfunctory and un-felt (if that’s a phrase) his words were. Add to that his grating voice, sloppy diction, and staccato, badly phrased delivery, and I just want to cringe.
We just need a different President. One with a soul would be good.
Here is a super snarky newsletter, BankSwirled put out by unknown World Bank employees.
BankSwirled
I love feminist men!
Alhamdulillah for being spared the brainwash at least sometimes.
GSD @ 132
Amen!
newtonusr: game is tied again. Detroit scored the second goal early in the 3rd, then Calgary just scored again.
Penalties are starting to get handed out like free candy. Markov (Det) just went in the box at 14:60. And, a fire alarm has gone off in the building. It looks like the officials have decided to ignore it, so there is a ringing (cowbell-like sound) filling the arena.
LJ/Aquaria – you know what I meant. No reason to get snippy.
Excellent post TRex! She’s fabulous.
By the way, how did we do on our late, late night predictions? Any tally?
newtonusr @ 66: thanks for the link. reading it now and can feel my blood pressure dropping.
mommybrain @ 68: that’s interesting. I might dig around a bit to find out more. Funny timing for this whole miniseries, too, if you ask me.
prairie sunshine @ 69: thanks for the tip on the flower origins show, but it may be too late…my retinas are burning. (is a predatious mellifluator anything like a walking, full-body human sphincter?)
:)
re: America at the Crossroads series
Last night’s episode on soldier’s writings from the front was very worth seeing. Some incredibly personal insights, juxtaposed with some incredibly stupid policy & tactics.
landofthefree @ 138
Thanks!
From the AP: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/vir…..n8RRSs0NUE
Because he killed and injured so many victims in a short span of time, some people speculated that Cho used high-capacity magazines containing as many as 33 rounds in each clip.
Under the federal assault-weapons ban enacted in 1994, magazines were limited to 10 rounds. But that ban was allowed to expire in 2004.
————————-
Remind me again what was wrong with the assault-weapons ban.
Texas Betsy @ 139
I’m wondering too. I wasn’t about to even pretend I could stomach Der Shrubbenfuhrer’s exploitation-fest.
EvilDrPuma @ 111
After reading the New York Times and the Washington Post tonight that had GREAT coverage on this, as well as CNN, it’s abundently clear that this kid should not have been allowed to buy a gun. IMO, when teachers see behavior such as this kid exhibited, there needs to be a mechanism in place that the teacher can call a number to “red flag” someone like that to a potential gun seller or state agency. From there, you get a licensed psychologist to sign off on buying one. In this particular instance, that might have worked IMO.
ARRRRG…..
Frank Probst @ 145
It didn’t let rural men hunt for ….. what animal was that again …. oh wait.
The NRA was against it on principle.
Iginla just scored a big goal. Totaly smoked one past Hasek. Calgary 3, Detroit 2, 10:09 left now. Fire alarm is off.
You’d be smart to wrestle the TV remote back – they’re pu & down the ice, throwing checks everywhere and it’s gonna be a good last 10 minutes of play, I’m sure.
Frank Probst @ 142
It interfered with our God-given right to kill the maximum number of other humans in the minimum necessary time.
TRex – Now that you’ve got the social courage part down, it’s time to master the *snappy* comeback.
You can’t just go splashing across Gender River and get stymied with an answer like, “I’m straight.”
You have to have a *snappy* comeback, something like, “That’s okay, we recruit.”
Could be just the ice-breaker…
There is absolutely nothing George W Bush could possibly do in his creemonial duties as President of The United States that could enhance the prestige, image, standing or future of this country. OK – maybe one thing – sign his letter of resignation.
Texas Betsy @ 145
I’m surprised to see that “NRA” and “principle” can coexist in our spacetime.
um, that was they are “up and down the ice”. No pu. Wouldn’t want that to get confused with the balls of a loin.
landofthefree @ 146
Done!
It interfered with the contributions flowing to the Republican Party.
Suzanne @ 153
That, too.
landofthefree @ 141
Just wanting a bit more precision with language. Stop taking offense where none is meant.
EvilDrPuma @ 153
Slight warp in the aura around my computer when I hit the SUBMIT box.
Frank Probst @ 144
It was a ban on scary looking guns…when you examine it closely,it left out most of the truely dangerous weaponry.It was poorly written,and only served to work political ends…and it gave a big stick to the nra ect…the dems want your guns…that resulted in a change in power we are still seeing the effects of
SnarKassandra @
20
Amelia. You gotta get Amelia in there.
She changed it all. Girls flew planes.
Know it’s not for a GUY to say who to admire, but, don’t Amelia get a mention?
She’s not poly sci, or broadcast, but, man, she leveled a HUGE playing field in her time.
(be kind) ;-)
Speaking of sports, did anyone see where Tim Duncan of the Spurs got ejected from a game…for laughing? He was sitting on the bench and the ref tagged him for a technical (don’t know what that was about.) Duncan kinda shrugged it off. A foul got called on the floor, and Duncan was laughing about it. Got another technical for it, and out of the game. It was incredible to see.
TRex @ 85
Get back on that pony, boy. Gotta find another one tomorrow, and ask him out!
We interrupt this thread for the following public service announcement:
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LJ/Aquaria @ 162
NBA suspended the ref, Crawford, for the rest of the season…turns out he’s a bit of a hothead.
Might be time for the Dems to say, in response to “The Dems want your guns.” to say, “You’re God Damn right!” But it will not happen.
BTW, aside from Brady & the now-expired Assault Weapons Ban, when have Dems, or anyone for that matter, moved effectively on gun control?
Oilfieldguy @
21
Yeah, before I get kilt for my Amelia post, let me say this about THAT!
Incredible. Beautifully put. And I sent it to a buncha sites that are a bit, um, dude challenged, let’s say . . .
She’s got more hutzpah (cajones) than anyone . . . her life is at stake, daily, minute by minute.
That’s courage. That’s faith.
I bow, to her wow.
Grok.
Nice find, Trex. Thanks for sharing.
larue @ 160
Then you must be thinking of Bessie Coleman. Another Texas gal, via France and Chicago.
TeddySanFran @ 163
Geez, if the gay agenda to convert us all is going to work, you’re gonna have to be a bit more persistent…
LJ/Aquaria @ 158
Gee, I shouldn’t be offended when someone clearly insinuates that I don’t consider Native Americans as people who count?
Perhaps you could be more precise with your language as well.
Suzanne @ 164
I thought 2 or 3 were OK. No?
snuffy @ 160
I agree that it had it’s flaws, but a ban on high-capacity ammo clips sounds pretty reasonable to me. The right thing to do would be to rewrite the law.
Texas Betsy @ 171
I think two’s the limit.
snuffy @ 160
Cho had to be one very,insane, fucked up and hurting puppy killer inside. PRAY FOR THIS KIDS SOUL AND FOR HIS PARENTS AND FAMILY MEMBERS. They have to be ripped up. Can you imagine?
LJ/Aquaria
landofthefree
We all have our things. peace.
I thought 2 or 3 were OK. No?
Two is ok… 3 is pushing it and if there is a link embedded in the nested comments, two has been known to blow the margins.
Alicia @
30
Yeah, you have to go all the way to the bible belt to see that kind of alcoholic hypocrisy in the US (or at least to Utah)
EvilDrPuma @
150
. . . while making the maximum amount of money selling you the equipment to do so.
punaise @
26
Louis LeChat? I Was Thinking Of THIS Prince Of Pearls
Congrats to BOTH katz in yer house!
I must put out the straightdar. Most lesbians never hit on me. One of my friends in high school was in the closet. I knew what she was, but didn’t care. Later she came out, and couldn’t believe I’d always known. Asked me how I could spend the night at her house, when I knew. I shrugged, said I knew she wouldn’t; it wasn’t what we were about. She sighed and said, “I wanted to, but I knew it wouldn’t do me any good. You’re so irredeemably straight. It was so frustrating!” We laughed a long time about that.
One of the few who did hit on me nearly laughed herself senseless when my reply was, “No, but I know one who’s available now. Maybe I could introduce you!”
Ed*ard Teller @ 152
Some quick searching and it looks like Clinton waited a month before going to Colorado after Columbine:
“The visit by President Clinton and First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton came one month to the day after the Columbine massacre”
Do you (rhetorical, not to ET) realize wait a strain on local law enforcement a Presidential visit causes? As if the Blacksburg area police didn’t have enough to handle?!? Shrub did make it a point to do THREE sitdown interviews with some Conglomerate Media outlets also. Unbelieveable!
You can be “Presidential” and calm a nation from D.C. Clinton immediately started a national dialogue on the root causes of violence. Jeezus, never thought I’d be defending Clinton. Shrub is that bad…
Trex… that tape kicks my cultural bias on high.I dont care if the saudies are our”allies”they treat 50% of their pop.like property,and act like 12th century tribesmen.That woman has more stones then anyone I can think of …she puts her life on the line when she speaks,yet she speaks clearly,and with a passion that shows a heart the size of a ocean.WoW…a lot of woman there.
His vocal tone betrays all the lack of feeling his words are supposed to convey. I stopped listening to him entirely because of that. It drives me insane. Most people have some range of emotion in their voices. He has none at all, or it’s so miniscule it shows just how facetious his words.
Mutant Poodle @ 165
It’s about damned time. That was one of the most ridiculous calls I’ve ever seen in my life, and Crawford had made a ton of them that were almost that stupid.
Kathleen @ 174
Unfortunately I almost can imagine. I’ve worked with kids I worry about. Know others.
I have a 6th grader right now (in a 2 hr per week class) who is WAY too quiet. Never seen him interact with another kid in an environment where everyone else works in pairs or threes. Very polite with me, but very reserved. Wish I knew what else to do.
kathleen @ 171
Thanks Kathleen.
Do we know yet where his folks and siblings are? Have they been decended upon?
And finally, you had me pulling my hair out re Bolton the other day. Naughty!
You might want to ask Juan Cole or Marc Lynch (Abu Aardvark) if the translation is accurate. MEMRI isn’t always trustworthy.
Exploitation alive and well in Mississippi:
The Rest of the Story
newtonusr @ 186
John or Michael?
kathleen @ 174: I have a great deal of sympathy for the kid’s family. I’d also like to stress that we still have a very poor understanding of what was going on with him. There are some reports that he was taking anti-depressants. If true, that would mean he had seen a psychiatrist. That may give us some insight here. Christy had a post earlier about red flags for antisocial personality and/or sociopaths. From what I’ve read so far, this kid doesn’t fit the bill. I’m no Dr Frist, but it sounds to me like this guy was schizophrenic. But like I said, we are still woefully short on information here.
aliasofwestgate @ 180
He ranges from arrogance to petulance and back.
Great game by the Calgary Flames – they deserved the win, even though Detroit played a great third period.
It is baffling how the Flames can play so well in their own arena and play so horribly when their on the road. They truly are like two completely different teams.
As a Red Wing fan, I have that sinking feeling that Calgary will win a decisive game 4, and then Hasek will have another mythical groin pull and leave my team hanging. Ugh.
Good night, all.
Frank Probst @ 172
Probably with a little practice you could drop a clip and jam in a new one and keep going in a couple of seconds. In this instance, I don’t think it would have mattered. The kid was the problem, not the gun, and there was no mechanism available to keep him from buying a gun
newtonusr @ 166
How about Dems saying “We want your kids alive.” And no, we don’t want your guns, we just want a little common sense. No right is absolute. Just as free speech does not cover yelling “Fire!” in a crowded theatre, neither does armor piercing bullets and automatic assault rifles infringe on the rights of hunters and sportsmen. And if we can keep guns out of the hands of a few disturbed individuals with a few restrictions, so be it. My right to live, quite frankly, outweighs your right to a semi-automatic.
back to lurking.
Joe Buck @ 187
Joe: Probably been asked this a bunch, but are you Jack Buck’s son?
landofthefree @ 189
Not Scotty Bowman’s group. Thanks & goodnight.
Eureka Springs says: Perle on Charlie Rose now.
Someone make it stop. I can’t bear to look at him another second. His mouth is smarmy, and his eyes look like balls on a loin.
(You know those $billions$ missing in Iraq? Think some of them may have bought a week of PBS primetime airtime just when Congress gets ready to unleash the fury?)
There’s something happening here, what it is ain’t exactly clear. There’s a man with a gun over there, telling me I’ve got to beware.
CSN & sometimes Y
Prairie Sunshine @
61
YOU ma’am, are all over it.
Two great choices.
Wish I had them at my keyboards when I type. Alas.
GSD @
135
DING!
He works at the Gap. He probably gets propositioned for marriage multiple times a day.
Actually, he seemed very surprised and was very, very sweet about it. At the end of the call, he said, “Hey, I’ll see you around.” Like, “Hey, I would still really like to run into you as a friend.” which I thought was really nice.
I had said something like, “Okay, excuse me while I wander off and die of embarrassment, now.” And he said, “Aw. There’s no reason to be embarrassed.”
Still, I was embarrassed. My scaly green face turned bright pink.
bonkers @ 181
At this point, Bush appears “Presidential” when he does something and doesn’t manage to fuck everything up in the process. By that standard, I think he was quite successful today. I’m willing to give him a pass on this one, since “immediately forgettable” is one of the best possible descriptions of one of his speeches.
newtonusr @
103
Hey newtonusr, according to Cheney, the Wings beat the Flames tonight, heh heh heh – GWB43.
Get in there and push, baby. Someone MUST reach out to these kids. People try to get to know these kids and the kids push back, “LEAVE ME ALONE!” and the adult goes, “Well, fine then. No skin off my back.”
What the kid is really saying is, “Please like me enough to persist in spite of my hostility. Life has only hurt me so far. I do not know how else to react to you.”
I know this story from both sides.
snuffy, did you ever think that it was written that way because it was the only way they could get the NRA to not scream about how ‘it was taking away their protection’?
I get so tired of the assumption that a gun will protect you from all dangers. I’ve seen too many stories about people accidentally shooting themselves, a family member, or a friend. Then there’s the idiots who shoot them into the air on holidays. And the ones who shoot at signs, trains, pets …
Before you tell me otherwise, I know people who are licensed as armed guards. They don’t want to draw, because that means the situation’s already out of hand. I have no objection to genuine hunting guns (which are, AFAIK, all long guns and not assault rifles or even semi-automatic), but if you want hand guns, you need training, you need practice, and you need to have a locked gun safe.
AZ Matt @ 188
Thanks for sharing this one. I just sent it in to be broadcast tomorrow on Head On Radio. This should be
everywhere
AZ Matt @
188
sorry,I lose sympathy when it comes to importing welders here so some company can save bucks.Ban the practice…you tellin me you cant find mississippi welder for $18.50 an hr…bullshit..the guy should not be here,americans should be doing that work
P J Evans @ 203
all which I have{my younger bro teaches police officers how to shoot}
TRex @ 202
I will. I see him tomorrow.
Petrocelli @ 198
I recaptured the remote, and I saw the end.
Of course, despite what my eyes told me, I suppose it’s possible Det won.
P J Evans @ 203
Amen!
This should be writ large across every gun sold. They should come with warning labels like cigarettes.
“WARNING! IF YOU ARE USING ME, THINGS HAVE ALREADY GOTTEN OUT OF HAND! THIS IS PROBABLY A MISTAKE! THINK BEFORE YOU PULL MY TRIGGER!!”
They are here and they are human beings. The question of contracting, subcontracting, etc. is completely separate.
PJ,the gun is not in a safe.locked safe is a poor place for a piece when things go bump in the night
It sounds as if you are blaming these workers who came here after being recruited by American companies. Don’t be pissed at them, be pissed at those companies. And be pissed at the system within the government that allows these companies to do this and to treat them that way.
newtonusr @
186
The Cho family of Centreville, Virginia, in their own horrid hell.
TRex @ 199
No need to be embarrassed. At least you put yourself out there and ask!
Texas Betsy @
185
I’ve also worked with kids as in this instance. Give them avenues to express themselves. We think of talk as being the norm, for many kids, it is simply not (look up the role of GABA in speech, I suspect it is related).
For some, it is like a superego, inhibitive overlay. It only peels back when they lower their inhibitions through drugs and alcohol OR by circumventing the inhibitions through trust or through expressive media. I’ve gotten through to a few via journals, artwork, music, clay work, play therapy with figurines, magazine collages and dreams and fanstasies.
If you can “understand” what they are trying to say and not judge them, it goes a long way to breaking through their solitude.
The superego overlay with Cho was immense. His ego imploded under the weight. The chains were a metaphor for his sense of entrapment. He coerced empathy by forcing people to experience his helplessness. It is sad, but we can’t give up. We have to recognize these extreme acts as the coercions of empathy that they are.
Clearly this guy had inner conflicts regarding identity, sexuality, male abusive authority, and finding a sustained outlet for expression and communication.
This is crude, but I’m surprised this shooting didn’t happen in Florida, with their “you talkin’da me?” gun ethos.
I wonder if the Florida Legislature will rethink these laws.
Texas Betsy @ 209
sorry,Im with thom hartman on this one…those h2 visa are screwing everyone,except the multinational corp.Ban the practice.
Frank Probst @ 190
Frank.. Your caution in re what we do not know has been most admirable and I want to thank you for it. May I correct one assumption you made above..Many anti depressants are prescribed by GP’s or other types of md’s.. so his possible use of meds does not necessarily suggest psychiatric supervision.
hth
larue @ 160
I’ve always held Marie CurieMadame Curie and, oddly enough, Babe Didrikson Zaharias as two of my heroes. I say oddly enough because I wasn’t good at sports when I was a kid, but reading her autobiography was really inspiring to me. Pre-Title IX, of course.
TeddySanFran @ 209
Oh my. Thank you Teddy.
That’s what phones are for!
I admit to being a bit to personal with this…most of my family is steel fabricators.Importing welders from india riles me a bit {for AZ matt}
Texas Betsy @ 209
In New Orleans after Katrina the unionized workers (welders, plumpers, etc.) started to come back home. They were told “never mind” we don’t want to pay union wages and the bushco’s brought in cheap Mexican labor. Treated them like shit also. Of course, this stymied the economy in New Orleans since the money wasn’t going to locals.
But this situation in MS seems really stupid. $18.50 an hour is good money down south. Maybe the good deputy sheriff was getting a cut of the $15,000 the Indians had paid to get here.
Do ya think it will be investigated by the Feds?
Thanks Tribescribe. This young man is a gifted artist but has trouble expressing himself with words, either orally or on paper. Will definitely seek that avenue!
This should not be a discussion of how the workers came to work here.
Reminds me of blaming the rape victim for being where the offender could attack her or blaming her for the clothing she wore instead of being concerned about the violence done to her.
OT.. but.. what about that PBS special narrated by Richard Perle it’s on in LA right now.. my God! spewing lie after lie…to support this mess in Iraq.
newtonusr @ 185
Centreville, Virginia. Outer suburbs of DC (though it was a rural town when I was growing up in the inner suburbs.) I haven’t heard of news media going there, but I’ve been avoiding most of the coverage, so I don’t really know.
Suzanne @ 224
It gets to be when its my tax money.It gets to be when its mayby your husbane with no work,or your brother or your son
Snuffy, please separate THE PRACTICE from THE PEOPLE in your mind. The PEOPLE need to be treated with dignity and respect.
TribeScribe @ 214
Excellent comment. I would add to that he was about to graduate and thrust into a world he could clearly not handle. Maybe that was the trigger
snuffy @ 216
What a bunch of crap. It isn’t the workers versus the workers. It is the workers versus the corporate bosses. All workers need to support each other.
Dan Williams @ 225
I had to stop watching after the first 10 minutes. My brain was hurting to much. It boggles the mind how wrong a person can be.
snuffy @
221
I believe the jobs are first offered to American citizens before companies are allowed to import labor.
HAHAHAHAHA !!
newtonusr @ 219
One of the Chos’ neighbors was on NPR. He described being across the street when the police stormed into the family’s house and started shooting pictures of everything. It was night and he said the flashes went on and on, “It was horrible. Like they had lightning trapped in there.”
I wonder if he even knows that he is a poet.
snuffy @ 221
I appreciate your concern but please separate these workers from visa issue. They have families too. They didn’t create the system and it sounds like it is the recruiter and the companies that benefit from this. Go read the whole article if you haven’t.
snuffy, are you saying that as long as it does not affect your paycheck, you are ok with people being violent toward other workers?
That it does not matter that one day one of your family members is employed by that company who treats your family like that because no one cared to stop it before?
Are you saying that as long as you have a paycheck, rape is ok?
I’m a little confused about what you are saying here.
newtonusr @ 215
They might, eventually. It probably take a few rounds of “stand your ground” vs “no knock warrant” to get it through their pointy little heads.
I see welders here with no work ,and this man travels 5 thousand miles to take bread out of my brothers mouth,and you say this is not part of the conversation?I disagree.
larue @ 160
Thanks; one of my heroes, and I’d almost forgotten.
DING!!
Texas Betsy @ 223
TB, if you ever want to chat offline, lmk how to reach you.
In the meantime, know that this kid probably processes information differently than most. It’s not “abnormal” although it is highly likely to be labeled as such, it’s just not as prevalent, and the lack of 1) understanding and 2) resources adds to the alienation.
Kids with photographic memories have some pretty amazing stuff to offer the world. They just aren’t always heard because of all of the biases in pedagogy and “standard” social interaction. Reinforce his strengths and ask him what he already knows about himself that is true that everyone else is clueless to. : )
snuffy @ 227
Do only the men in your family make a living?
snuffy @ 238
Of course it is. But that is a different conversation. This article is about how the workers are treated AFTER they arrive.
TeddySanFran @ 233
Oh Teddy I love ya.
Transcribe, if Suzanne is OK with it, she can give you my email add, which is also my gmail and msn screen name.
Snuffy@238
The guy didn’t travel 5000 miles to take bread out of your brother’s mouth….he traveled that far to put bread in the mouths of his family. It’s the company that chose to give the bread to him rather than your brother. It’s the company, dude….
The companies are screwing all parties,as usual.0430 is too soon…g’night
Texas Betsy @
245
Good evenin’ Betsy.
I feel sorry for the head of the VaTech creative writiing department, interviewed on Countdown tonite. A faculty member teaching Cho came to her with his work and student complaints. She referred him to counseling, went to the counseling department about him herself, and even went to the police with his work. No one acted; there was nothing overt to act on. She looks to be in terrible, terrible pain.
Evening Petrocelli !
This is the next part of the first page. There are 4 pages more. Go read them before you pass judgement on these men.
Texas Betsy @ 245
Suzanne, please do contact me however it is done. It would be an honor to help out any way possible.
HEY! Where’d the logo on the header go?!?
TeddySanFran @ 246
She should be an unknown hero, and instead, she’s a grief-striken hero. I’m waiting (and dreading) for the VT administration to explain their inaction.
OT, okay, I posted this in the last thread, but it was winding down and I want to brag to my late nite peeps:
I went to the DC YearlyKos fundraiser tonight, and got to hang with Russ Feingold and Jon Tester and Brad Miller and John Hall and Jerry McNerney! *G*
Much kudos was given to FDL, especially from Hall and McNerney!
Okay, I didn’t really get to hang with Feingold, since he had to leave shortly after speaking, but it was good stuff, and I did get to meet McNerney, and chat for quite a while each with Miller and John Hall. And I could have chatted with Tester if I’d been more pushy; he hung around for quite a while.
The one big advantage to an event like this in DC is that everyone is local, but even so, I’ve never been to an event that had as many senators and congressmen in a casual setting.
wangdangdoodle @
253
I have logo but no words.
AZ Matt @
235
It’s all tough … I spend most of my working day in the global economy. Trying to figure out how I can contribute to good jobs for folks here in the US at the same time creating opportunity for everyone. It’s a hard line to walk.
No reason people here deserve more than anyone else, but … I’m a lot closer to people here.
Ain’t no easy answers. Promises made in the night dissolve by light of day.
my thoughts to the folks mourning in VA today.
TeddySanFran @
249
If only there was like … oh I don’t know … a department that focussed on security of the American Homeland … if you will, then this might have been something they would have been looking at. Or were they only tagging brown men with names like Hussein or Obama?
TeddySanFran @ 249
Cassandra Syndrome. I’m sure they just told her that she was being a flighty, alarmist liberal academic. Cancha see we’re busy here, lady? We can’t do nothin’ without a specific threat or til he goes an’ shoots somebody. Ah’m sawrry but that’s just the way it is…blah de blah de blah.
Redshift @ 252
Score!
TRex @ 259
I’ve heard that more than once myself! Even including the accent.
I get the box w/o logo, only the “bedlam is dreaming of rain” part.
Texas Betsy @ 250
We got up to 48 degrees F today and it will be 63 degrees by Sunday, that is, unless we get another weather system that hit the Northeastern U.S.
I wonder if they’ll pin that on Gore too?
Doonesbury comic says “Impeachment Bush now”.
gocomics
Her name is Lucinda Roy, director of creative writing, and she is a true American hero.
sunshine @ 264
Excellent!
sunshine @ 264
impeach shrub, already!
sunshine @ 264
TeddySanFran @ 249
I agree. They’ve now uncovered evidence that he was also behind the bomb threat 3 weeks ago. They will have to piece together everything. Of course hindsight is 20/20. As Cozumel noted, graduation is a few weeks away. A time to be on high alert re: major transitions and collapse of structures and support networks (however small or seemingly insignificant).
imho, they missed the boat with the stalking.
3 female students and inappropriate picture taking of peers, including males.
This is not fuzzy area.
Once this occurs, you know the person’s thinking has crossed over into viewing others as objects and the likelihood is strong that they also view themselves in similar terms (’Question Mark’ as a nickname, for ex.).
Texas Betsy @
266
Isn’t Garry Trudeau a Canuck? Lord knows he’s smart enough to be one ;-)
Petrocelli @ 263
Spoke to chiro today. He said no yoga yet. Aqua PT to begin in week 3 of the injections.
Did we lose the Refresh Comments button, too? And am I supposed to put my REAL email addy in when posting?
Has anyone commented on TRex’s post about Kucinich starting impeachment hearings?
wangdangdoodle @ 269
Email will not be exposed. Promise.
Great Oliphant Cartoon on Gonzo, Bush and Cheney!
Hah! I used nun@ya.com
Haven’t had a chance to see Trex’s post yet, but I am totally behind impeaching Cheney first.
I’m running Firefox and have logo and refresh comments button.
For those experiencing a problem, reload the page and see if that clears it. We sometimes have some minor glitches that will surface when we get up in the high 200’s on threads.
Uh, FOUL BALL.
Ladies and gentlemen, it pains me to do this, but I am going to have to bring up the Barenaked Ladies and why Canada must be razed to the ground forever as a result.
Not to mention (eugh!) Great Big Sea.
GSD @
115
heh
Not that I don’t trust ReddHedd and Jane with my info…
Betsy, I am TRex @
278
Shania Twain, Alanis Morissette, Maple Syrup, Basketball … an honor to be reviled by a Therapod, btw.
TeddySanFran @ 249
I saw that interview as well. It must have been so frustrating to try to get this young man help and be thwarted at every turn. Unfortunately, this comes down on the heads of the well-meaning, and sometimes indifferent (read:Republican) defenders of the rights of the mentally ill, who made it all but impossible to force those who desperately need help to get it. Combine that with the shutting down of mental health facilities and the availability of help for those who need it, and I fear this scenario will play out time and time again.
Great Tony Auth cartoon on how responsible Bush is!
TRex @
278
If I had a Million Dollars …. Joseph would say yes … *g*
wangdangdoodle @ 280
Sound to me like you have a loose lucy in your puter.. No problems with layout here..
Maybe it’s cache thingy
Danziger cartoon on the War Czar.
hello from the itinerant Arizona dog rescue truck and goodbye(thankfully at dawn tomorrow after stopping at the parks and laying out food for the resident homeless animals) to a state that is as bad as the third world in their attitude and treatment of dogs and cats. They tell me here it is worse in New Mexico. Can we please have a president of the united states who outlaws backyard breeding and allowing animals to leave shelters without being spayed and neutered. It’s a national DISGRACE.
TRex @
259
She did actually say that people told her she was being high-strung, and she laughed and said, “And I AM high-strung, but in this case I was RIGHT.”
(waving to spidey)
So Eureka, do I need to C-I-L-L* some cookies, or what?
*old SNL reference to Kill My Landlord.
Here is the Doonesbury Impeach Cheney Cartoon!!!!
wangdangdoodle @ 290
Doggie barks.
Do he bite?
Kill my landlord.
Kill my landlord.
TRex @ 258
From her earlier description of events, it wasn’t quite that way. She said that authorities were constrained by privacy rights, and that if any of his remarks or writings could have been construed as threats, then they could intervene. But, without a threat first, they weren’t able to do much without violating existing policy.
So, if this young man had just shown an obvious signal first, something might have been done.
She’s beyond forlorn, I’m sure, about this. From part of the interview I heard, she was simply overwhelmed by events and lamented that she couldn’t have done more, but it seemed clear that she was up against the legal/policy limits of the situation as it existed before Monday.
It’s a crummy situation all around, but, it didn’t sound as if she were simply brushed off.
wangdangdoodle @ 287
Oh lord. I haven’t thought of that in years!
Ayup, Trex, that’s the one!
Alicia @ 294
Sometimes it makes me really happy to think about my youth.
Somebody didn’t make a connection between Ms. Roy’s concerns, Cho’s stalking, his firesetting and his gun-purchasing. There was a lapse here. If institutions don’t learn from this lapse, they will find themselves in the same horrible situation as VaTech.
Kristine @ 282
actually, I disagree. The laws on the book specifically speak to the threshold that is crossed that gives the right of law enforcement and psychiatric and educational institutions to override individual civil liberties. Threat to self or other is outlined in the Baker Act. There is no other need here but to start to speak in specific behavioral terms about what illustrates that intersection. This kid gave us perfect examples of where the rubber hits the road.
You can write scary stuff, for sure, and not be forced into counseling or custody. But Cho went beyond that.
His suite mates have stated clearly:
He stalked others
He took inappropriate pictures of females and males (under the desk or surprise photos)
He went to Facebook sites and stalked.
He set a fire in a dorm.
He made bomb threats.
We don’t need new laws. We need to Readily recognize the real life examples they refer to and then ACT.
Yout, Mary. Sometimes it makes me really happy to think about my yout. The youts are the future.
De youf! Tink of de youf!
I am going to call it a night. Nice visiting with y’all again.
Dark and lonely on a summer’s night.
Kill my landlord. Kill my landlord.
Watchdog barking. Do he bite?
Kill my landlord. Kill my landlord.
Slip in his window. Break his neck.
Then his house I start to wreck.
Got no reason. What the heck?
Kill my landlord. Kill my landlord.
C-I-L my land lord!
Good night Betsy – and thanks for stopping by Hooterville!
So wangdangdoodle, Ya callin me a old fart?
Texas Betsy @ 301
Good night, Aunt B. Come back if you need to. We’ll be here all night.
There. Alicia has it!
thanks to all b-day wishers!
Texas Betsy @ 298
Here’s to pain-free snoozing! Night.
Mary… at 50, can I?
TRex @ 305
Hoping to actually sleep through the night for a change, but thanks.
TRex at 199
The spinning wheels sticking out of the ditch at 151 are my attempt at being deadpan snarky…I’ll try and do better next time, really I will…
Imvho, if everyone had encounters like yours with Joseph, the world would be full of peace and love, and everyone would be encouraged to find the right match for them.
Our culture has a long way to go before the John Wayne and June Cleaver stereotypes give way to acceptance of a far broader spectrum of identity expression – more based on who you actually are and less on subscription to binary stereotypes.
The fact that you can find a Joseph, have an honest conversation with him, and part on good terms says to me that it’s already happening.
Me be older than taht.
happy loss of the deduction and quasi end of liability on the ending of minorhood for the jr, punaise.
wangdangdoodle @ 306
Impressive. Very.
Mary, being from a gentler time, I won’t ask. :)
57!!!! F**king 57!!!!!!
Petrocelli @
270
…’signed, Stockwell Day’
;>)
punaise @ 307
Happy Punniversary
:)
Well then, I’ll be catching up with you soon.
Is that possible?
Mary McCurnin @ 316
Oh, my!
Let me fix you a drink, then. You’re just about ready to start having fun, according to my parents’ method.
Of course not, I’m deliriously tired. And silly. Must not let go of the silly. Then I’d be, like, you know… old.
darkblack @
317
Stockwell Day, Harper and the other wingnuts are aliens from the planet Gamerica, sent by their King, Beorge Gush to turn Heaven into hell.
So sayeth James Cameron … and he’s nevvuh wrong.
Ann Telnaes was excellent day before yesterday.
If Margaret wasn’t my middle name fun would be.
Time for this old lady to get to bed. To have some fun.
newtonusr:
if you lose the remote during the next game, you can always go to nhl.com and listen to either side’s radio broadcast. I have to do that during parts of the Sharks-Preds games when I just can’t stand listening to our local broadcasters. (I know, we’re just babies at this game compared to you guys.)
g’nite Mary! Sweet dreams.
TRex, I have a pic I want to submit to Christy for the Saturday morning gardening thread, bees y’know. How do I do that?
Me too. Don’t wanna. But I gotta. 5:00 comes around awfully early.
Good night, all.
mutzali @ 322
I’m in the Bay Area – are the Preds broadcasters better than the twerps we’ve got? And thanks for the tip!
wang
This is the contact us page for the lake.
newtonusr @
329
All kidding aside, I absolutely HATE the views of the hockey games on American networks. I wish they could get coached by our guys on how to bring the play closer, make the colors better. It’s like watching the games through a tunnel with your windshield covered with oil.
newtonusr – you talking about kfox? (trying to remember from when i was on that side of the hill – think they were airing the sharks)
Petrocelli @ 322
‘…Signed, Linda Hamilton‘
;>)
Thank you Suzanne! I’ve loved this place since 30 comments was a big thread. But I’m more of a doodle than a wang. :)
wangdangdoodle @ 333
Dang….
Petrocelli @ 328
I’ve seen Hockey @ the Tank and on teevee (oh, how I crave ESPN’s wall-to-wall Post Season coverage with Emerick/Clement), but never up North. Ignorance, in my case, is bliss.
darkblack @
333
Said Linda, “James could never tell one of my Ossuaries from the other.”
you are welcome, doodle. i remember those days too – days before the quote this comment button or being able to edit your comment.
Suzanne @ 329
Why yes, I am. They’re not very good. Seems if I had a Canadian vocal inflection, they’d hire me.
I shouldn’t be so critical. I grew up listening to Bill King paint unimaginably perfect word-pictures of GS Warrior games, and Lon Simmons describe Giant games from way back. Just awesome, especially King.
newtonusr @ 336
What is surprising is the Basketball games are covered so well – color, angles, close ups … but not the Hockey games. Can’t even see the damn puck.
Montag, yes, Dang works too!
wangdangdoodle @ 340
Oh, I just didn’t complete the sentence, as in, “dang, a doodle.” :)
newtonusr @ 339
FYI, all your commentators sound like they’re from Boston. *g*
OK, 6 a.m. is less than 5 hours away. Meemers, all.
A poem I commissioned back in the Summer of 2003 about a woman similar to Buthayna Nasser:
God the Synecdoche in His Holy Land i.m. Rachel Corrie
Around you the father gods war. This
Father. That father. The other father.
What more dangerous place could
A woman stand, upright, than on that sand, as if
She were still antiphon to that voice, the other
Mind of that power. The very idea!
Crush her back in to her mother!
Crush her. Crush her. Consensus. War.
Linda McCarriston
Well, I’m glad they lost Drew Remenda, but it’s like they (FSN and KFOX) want to poor-mouth the Sharks so they (the announcers)can be right if they (the Sharks)lose. When I’ve seen games in DC or Denver (brothers all over) and the announcers seem to actually take pride in their local guys! What a novel idea!
Petrocelli @ 340
I’d be happy if they sounded like they were from Hockey, but they strike me as generic.
Montag… all night long.
newtonusr @
347
Which team are you cheering for?
I actually like it better when the games are on NBC or Versus, since the announcers seem to be more even-handed.
Ed*ard Teller @ 345
Great post ET!
Some of my friends are involved with
the Women’s Assistance Fund
imho, this is definitely the direction the whole discourse
about the middle east needs to be going!!!
mutzali @ 343
Remenda ended up – where – Versus?
And, like I said, King & Simmons. The Bay Area, having only a slight Hockey tradition (Shamrocks in the 70’s, Seals), have zero local talent. But the other sports have rich announcer legacies.
mutzali @
350
I get the feeling the commentators pulled the short straws and would rather be covering a ‘real’ sport. Not many genuine hockey fans as sports commentators.
newtonusr @ 352
That blows because the Sharks have as good a chance as any of reaching the Finals. What I wouldn’t give to have Thornton here in Toronto.
Petrocelli @ 346
Sharks.
But Go Caps! Like I said Saturday, sheesh – 70 points…
Wow. Hockey. Whodathunkit?
g’nite, ‘pups.
Petrocelli @ 351
[Modnote: when you preview, please make sure that every time there is a [blockquote] there is also a [/blockquote] with the all important “/” thanks. I wonder if you are backspacing over the latter.]
newtonusr @
355
I remember, and I said if the Caps actually got a team around Ovechkin, they’d be something. I think the Sharks can give any of the teams in the Western conf. real headaches.
More women like her please. What a great rant.
“Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day.” – Thomas Jefferson
Petrocelli, I’ve been meaning to ask about your moniker. Does it reference the old TV show?
newtonusr @ 357
LOL, all of my friends are depressed. Luckily our NBA team – the Raptors – are doing really well. Hey TRex, any relation to you?
Suzanne @ 360
Hahah kind of … remember how they were always building their house, brick by brick and it never seemed to get done? Well, that’s how I feel about a book I’m writing, hence my moniker – Petrocelli.
Petrocelli @ 355
Size, size, Thornton. I’m waiting for tomorrow night, when I am hoping the Sharks will simply play their game.
Thanks, Petrocelli.
newtonusr @
363
He has tons of talent as well, but needs a better ice surface. It’s not going to be easy beating Nashville, they have lots of talent and leadership. The Goalies will be crucial throughout, more than any other year.
Suzanne @ 364
My pleasure. I really liked the show as well. We had lots of lawyers in my family and watched Perry Mason, Petrocelli and every other ‘law- based’ show and movie. When my book gets published and hits the New York Times Bestseller’s list, I will change my moniker to Atticus Finch or Gregory Peck. I always wanted to meet Gregory Peck. I have seen To Kill a Mockingbird many times since I was 7 and I always felt that he was genuinely being himself, in the role, not acting. What a gentle soul.
Off to read KV.
When Kurt died, like some others here, I rummaged thru my stuff and found all my Vonnegut – sent some for a first-time Vonnegut reader, but I’m smashing & grabbing my way thru “Jailbird”, on my way to the rest of them.
Night.
TRex @ 278
I thought Bryan Adams and Rush (the band) would have done the trick… ;)
Petrocelli @
366
Gregory Peck was a close friend of my father’s (they are both now deceased) and was every inch a gentleman. Many Hollywood stars are quite shallow and egocentric and he was neither. Always polite, thoughtful and modest.
LJ/Aquaria @
368
Just remember that we invented the zipper, every time you wear your $15 Gap jeans.
Petrocelli @ 370
I don’t wear jeans, and certainly don’t shop at the Gap. I don’t think I’ve ever bought anything there. Trying to remember if or even when I’ve been in one of the stores…
petedownunder @ 369
Even though I was quite young when I first saw the film, I just knew he wasn’t acting, that he was genuinely a loving, caring human being. The other actors were … actors. I’d like to meet his relatives sometime, to visit where he lived or grew up, although they are probably tired of ‘adulating fans’.
Come to think of it… I don’t have much that uses a zipper, except my winter coat…. Lots of T-shirts and shorts and capri pants here. Nature of my work.
LJ/Aquaria @ 371
Sorry, my snark was directed at a certain Therapod who wishes to destroy Canada.
Never been. Would like to go, someday. Looks beautiful.
I echo LJ/Aquaria. One day, I will visit Canada. It is on my list.
LJ/Aquaria @
375
You’re welcome, Toronto is a great city to visit … lots of different cultures, lots of festivals, lots of fun. Just leave your Therapods at the border ;-)
Petrocelli @ 366
great to hear your observations re: Peck,
dear yogi with bestseller inklings…
imho, the world would be a better place if
more gentle souls were venerated.
good luck with that book,
a fellow writer ; )
I can’t sleep.
Petrocelli @ 371
It was an excellent bit of casting (as was putting Peck in “Gentleman’s Agreement”).
Suzanne @ 376
same here. a pen pal of mine was a tourguide in Banff. used to send pics all the time.
glacier lakes and overthrust mountains and such.
WOW.
petedownunder @ 369
Oh wow, now there’s something to talk about over lunch. I remember a TV show ‘An Evening with Gregory Peck’. One night the woman who had played Scout in To Kill a Mockingbird was in the audience. They still kept in touch, he still called her Scout, she still called him Atticus.
TribeScribe @
378
Thanks brother, er sister … friend ;-)
Have you been published?
sister ; )
nope, writing my first bestseller, too *g*
Loo Hoo @ 379
Neither can I. Let’s stay up.
Bets, did you get the email?
Ann Coulter makes the 100 unsexiest MEN list – sweet.
http://www.thephoenix.com/article_ektid37388.aspx
That was a cool video TRex showed us. I didn’t read all the comments, but it looks like a busy night here.
TribeScribe @ 381
OMG, Banff is one of the last ‘unspoilt’ mountain resorts in North America. I tell my materialist friends to spend a couple of days there and in Lake Louise, and they always have a different outlook when they return. If you go there, please spend a couple of days in the Okanagan Valley, in the middle of British Columbia. The winery(s) give (pre- breakfast) tours.
TribeScribe @ 384
Fiction or non fiction? With me, it’s non fiction or as real as yoga can get. So I spend hours in the day meditating and then writing from my insights. It is taking a long time, but is as authentic as Gregory Peck ;-)
Fantasy trip would be riding the Canadian Railway across country – spending lots of time in each of the great lodges/hotels.
Suzanne @
391
… in the fall. Autumn in Canada is my fav. time.
Petrocelli @ 390
NF too. with much the same process i might add.
yep, it does take a long time, and
authenticity is the key!
my muse occasionally gets sidetracked by FDL though — LOL
TribeScribe @ 386
Just replied.
Petrocelli @ 361
Well, there’s the advice of Richard Rhodes’ first editor: “Apply ass to chair.” :)
It’s hard advice to take if there’s a generally full life interfering with taking that advice. :)
But, things do get done if they’re attacked every day.
Cheers.
TribeScribe @
393
I allot a few quick browses on FDL during the day and a bit more at night to break away from all those ‘insights’. That and watching Jon Stewart.
Remember the margins :)
montag @
395
Thanks, days have run into years and am living a very full life as well. It is a great journey and once the first book is done, 7 more are in the pipeline. So a lot depends on the first one being a blockbuster.
Petrocelli @ 396
went to school with JS : ) he rawks!
Colbert is one sharp tack, too.
They both have backgrounds in improv
and it shows!
Suzanne @ 397
Thanks Suzanne ;-)
TribeScribe @ 399
Ooooohhhh. Close to celebrity. Pardon me while I drool a moment or two. :)
Suzanne @ 397
“Two or three quotes
If they are just notes
But if there’s a link
The margins will sink.”
I gotta work on that.
egregious @ 402
That’s not bad at all.
TribeScribe @ 399
They are smarter and more real than the MSM … which to me is the ultimate joke. Stephen has our NBA team – The Raptors – on one of this two “bad” boards. Did any of you see Rob Riggle with the Mayor of Laredo tonight or Aasif’s crack about Sharpton? What a treat to watch.
Petrocelli @ 397
Don’t be disappointed if it’s not–or if it’s difficult getting it sold. That is easily the most numbing and depressing part of the business, if one is an unknown, or comes without relevant credentials.
What was JS like in high school? Did you know him well TribeScribe?
TribeScribe @ 399
30 second break for obnoxious pride. Cassie’s newest post is about Stewart and Colbert being more informative than the mainstream media.
montag @
405
The journey has enriched me so much already, there cannot be any disappointment. And there’s always Crown Royal with Hot Chocolate to numb the pain … it’s the Canadian version of Amb*en ;-) Thanks for the kind words.
***Edited by the Lurking Mod to free from the spam filters***
Loo Hoo @ 406
went to school with him @ W&M.
we overlapped by a year.
he was a real ham & well-respected
for his quick wits.
college could barely contain him.
it was really a mere formality for
all that he would go on to do.
Suzanne @ 397
Hm. Maybe—
“Two or three quotes,
Ok if just notes.
But don’t quote a link,
The margins will stink.”
:)
TribeScribe @
409
I’ve heard the same about Jim Carrey, who is from a suburb of Toronto. Seems his comedy could not be contained in the class.
Genius spills over, the foolish are always neat.
That’s about it for me tonight, folks. G’nite all.
Suzanne @ 411
Night Suzanne.
Suzanne @ 410
G’night, Suzanne.
Texas Betsy @ 407
That Pew Poll was quite telling. Glad Cassie blogged about it!
So sad to think so many Murkins “support the war” but don’t have a
lick of sense about the history or the people involved.
Persiflage – YGM
Goodnight Suzanne.
TribeScribe @ 413
If Ambrose Bierce is correct, it takes war just to teach them geography….
montag @ 417
And here we are AT war. Or or we at occupation? Anyone know?
Texas Betsy @ 417
All the above….
Texas Betsy @
419
We’re fightin’ ter-rists … everywhere, forever, until we cannot afford to buy bombs @ $2 Million to drop on people who did nothing bad to us.
4 a.m. for me. ‘nite all !
Petrocelli @ 421
Good night!
nite Petrocelli! sweet dreams!
Petrocelli @ 420
G’night.
Petrocelli @ 419
As confirmation of that, Juan Cole’s Wednesday morning collation of the carnage….
montag @ 425
Montag, i like that particular web site
TribeScribe @ 425
If you want to understand what’s happening in the region, do you go to a guy who lived in the region, reads and speaks Arabic and reads Farsi, and is an acknowledged scholar on Middle Eastern culture and history… or do you listen to George Bush? :)
Kind of a no-brainer, that. :)
montag @ 427
Doesn’t matter what choice A is. Choice B is always a NO!
Texas Betsy @ 427
[laughing] Yeah, “A” is always the default. :)