Well, this is getting interesting (via the NYTimes):
The former top aide to Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales has told Congressional investigators that Mr. Gonzales was “inaccurate,” or “at least not complete” in asserting that he had no role in the deliberations about individual United States attorneys who were later dismissed, a Democratic senator said Monday….
Mr. Schumer said Monday that Mr. Sampson recalled that in early March, Mr. Gonzales had told him about the White House conversation — the first time, Mr. Sampson said, that he learned of the president’s concern. Mr. Sampson’s lawyer, Bradford A. Berenson, declined to comment on the interview.
According to Mr. Schumer, Mr. Sampson said he believed Mr. Gonzales had attended a June 2006 meeting in which Ms. Lam’s removal was discussed. Another official, William W. Mercer, the acting associate attorney general, recalled with greater certainty that Mr. Gonzales was at the meeting, Mr. Schumer said….
A Justice Department spokesman, Brian Roehrkasse, said there was nothing new in the information Mr. Schumer attributed to Mr. Sampson. He said that Mr. Gonzales’s role in discussions about Mr. Iglesias and Ms. Lam had been previously disclosed; that Mr. Gonzales’s statements about his lack of recollection about the White House meeting were accurate; and that his accounts of it to Mr. Sampson and others were based on what others had told him, not on his own memory.
The House Judiciary Committee also moved Monday to expand its investigation, notifying the Justice Department that it was seeking to interview the current United States attorneys from Minnesota, New Mexico, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.
One House official said the committee wanted to learn about the February 2006 appointment of Rachel K. Paulose as the United States attorney in Minnesota, particularly the reasons for her move from a post at the department’s headquarters.
ABC News' The Blotter has an additional piece by Justin Rood that walks through the potential minefield that could be public testimony under oath — if, indeed, there will be a lack of honesty from the Attorney General. With the hearing now postponed until Thursday, I'm wondering how much more information will dribble out between now and then. And how the Attorney General is going to prepare for public testimony when all of his current and former aides have been rushing to Congress to cover their own rear ends ahead of his. This just gets more and more interesting, doesn't it?
Eugene Robinson has a WaPo op-ed today that really hits the lack of credibility issue where it counts:
Gonzales had an op-ed Sunday in The Post that included this positively breathtaking claim: The attorney general of the United States writes that "to my knowledge, I did not make decisions about who should or should not be asked to resign."
To his knowledge? What on earth does that mean? Is Gonzales in the habit of making decisions without his own knowledge? Does he have multiple-personality issues?
Rove, Wolfowitz and Gonzales are making the last-ditch argument of a cheating husband caught in flagrante: Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes? (emphasis mine)
The nation needs an intervention. Because, in all honesty, this has got to stop.
Related posts:





Spotlight








Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search

Take back the truth!
Zed? Christy! (and I even read the article)
Good morning Christy and pups! I woke up early this morning (4 a.m.EDT), read some late night posts, and then had to wait all this time to talk with y’all about some things. In particular, I am referring to Josh Marshall’s late night post about the June 6th memo and the supposed “immigration issues” as the reason (pretext) for firing Carol Lam. We all remember the Kyle Sampson memo about the “real problem we have with Carol Lam.” We can all pretty much assume that the June 6th discussions actually had to do with how to use the immigration pretext to solve the “real problem” with Carol Lam (escalating investigation of Foggo, Doolittle, etc.). We also know that a variety of people (Sampson, Taylor, Mercer, Gonzalez and others) were involved in the discussions. So here are my questions: Aren’t some of these people already in danger of perjury charges? Can’t Judiciary offer immunity to the first one to tell the truth: i.e. that the real reason Carol Lam was fired was to obstruct her investigations against Republicans? Then, we have evidence of a really big crime, and then we can move up the ladder of who knew what when. IANAL, and maybe I have been watching too many Law & Order episodes, but what do you think? And thanks for letting me get this off my chest. I look forward to your replies.
give truth back!
Dang. Just missed.
Christy! Great post–these people are shameless.
Didn’t the GOP impeach Clinton for being “inaccurate”?
Mae at 3 — The simple answer to all of that is “yes.” But it is more complicated in terms of selecting to whom immunity ought to be offered, how that would impact any potential criminal investigation, etc., etc., if indeed there is to be one. (Which is a big if, btw, but you still don’t want to muddy the waters too much and end up messing things up like Congress did during Iran-Contra.)
Good morning Christy,
Robinson’s op-ed today is priceless. The money quote: “To his knowledge? What on earth does that mean? Is Gonzales in the habit of making decisions without his own knowledge? Does he have multiple-personality issues?”
Exactly.
CHS@7 – Thanks, Christy. I’m interested that you say a criminal investigation is a big if. Let’s assume someone does turn and admit that, for example, Carol Lam was fired because of investigation of R’s. Wouldn’t there have to be a criminal investigation? If not, again assuming that we have one or two DOJ staffers saying that Lam was fired to stop the investigation, what other response could there be?
Amen, sister. Amen.
mc at 9 — I know. I came very close to spewing coffee all over my laptop on that one. Gene Robinson had his snark mojo going with this op-ed — it’s a beautiful thing.
Do you want us to stay off the Va tech situation here?
Morning Christy and everyone.
Interesting that ABC is coming forward with these stories. The same ABC that puts out The Note. Is my memory serving me well or did Justin Rood come over from either TPM or TAP? If so what prompted ABC Disney to creep out from the dark side?
Morning pups. It seems to me that the delay for Gonzales does him no favors. He gets two more days to stew in his own juices, while the Committee gets two more days to work through the mounting evidence. Any speculation that he will resign before testifying? He got no momentum out of the WaPo op-ed.
Christy, Do you have any sense of where the Abramoff stuff is going? It seems like he is being let off the hook with respect to fingering Doolittle and the other crooks, not to mention the CIA business. This question has been asked before, but assuming that Fisher is engaged in a cover-up, can the Committee (not sure which one at this point) call him in and force him to testify under immunity? If we can’t jail the buggers, it would still be good to exposethem.
I just hope that when Gonzo resigns it doesn’t end there. In particular, I hope those emails turn up. There’s got to be a whistle blower in this country somewhere. Someone with a conscience. Surely one of the people in this massive machinery of awfulness must have thought, wow, this is really disgusting stuff we’re doing.
Mae at 10 — There would have to be an authorization for an outside special prosecutor to be appointed, because the DoJ couldn’t really investigate themselves — and the FBI would have to designate a walled off unit to look into it, and that’s just for starters. This would be even more difficult than what had to be walled off and constructed to investigate the Plame leak. It isn’t easy. Most likely what we’ll see is Congressional investigation and public exposure — with the possibility of a criminal referral stemming from that if there are perjury or obstruction missteps along the way.
It would be great to hear publicly from someone whose investigation Alice Fisher stifled. They surely exist.
CHS –
In case of spotlighting, spell check on “dribile”.
Back to in-depth read.
RevDeb @ 14
Rood did indeed come from TPMMuckraker. Best hire by ABC in a long time IMO.
Any updates on the use of subpoenas to compell DoJ document delivery? Is Leahy going to put some teeth into Congress’ request?
RevDeb at 14 — Actually, The Blotter has been doing great work for a while. Justin used to work for The Muck — and he does great investigative digging. It’s good to see him over at ABC now, so that more folks get exposed to his brand of dig, dig, dig until you get to the truth of something. But The Blotter folks helped break a lot of the Mark Foley mess as well — so they’ve been working the investigative reporting angle for some time.
JF @ 20
Thanks. That explains how we are getting real news from ABC. Still don’t know the why of it.
CHS – I think we are circling around what to me is one of the biggest problems (of many big problems) with the Bushies. In the normal world, public exposure would have an effect. The exposed would be embarassed. They would resign. They would be fired. In Bush world, public exposure does nothing. They just keep on as if nothing had happened. Hrumph!
I’m fairly impressed by today’s WaPo editorials. Two calling for the truth. The last paragraph from the editorial….
Christy in response to Mae brings up the thing I fear–a repeat of Iran-Contra where things get so muddied that things just fizzle out.
Christy, if you ever get a chance, could you comment on whether you think Schumer or Leahy and the other lawyers in congress can work together or will end up at cross-purposes here? (Sort of the too many cooks spoils the broth theory I am wondering about.) Do you get a sense they are working together better than in the 80s?
(Pls pardon OT… EPU’d)
——————————
Feeling adventuresome? Interested in who else is in the FDL community, and where they are? Maybe get in touch with them via anonymous message?
Hope to see you on our unofficial FirePup Fan map. Pls don’t forget to pick the right pin for yourself, and to add a fun “shoutout” and maybe a pic.
——————————
Mae @ 3
Christy makes an excellent point about immunity and the possibility that using grants of immunity without extreme caution could ultimately thwart prosecution. Note from Iran-Contra independent counsel Lawrence Walsh’s final report:
We very much need to limit any immunity offered to transactional versus blanket, if offered at all. Had immunity been more limited during Iran-Contra, it’s highly possible that a substantive number of the neo-cons in this administration would have been prosecuted and might not be working on our dime. We need to ensure that many of the young neo-cons now working in Washington are nipped in the bud, and do not become a future scourge for both our children and ourselves.
Good Morning
How can Gonzales really believe he can splain himself? Surely he isnt naive or doesnt read. What is the real reason he hasnt resigned?
snowbird42 @ 29
Hubris. And OBTW, he’s mad. The Gods got to him real early, like his friends.
RevDeb @
14
They’re not out yet…there’s still Tapper.
snowbird42 @ 29
I think Hal Holbrook expressed it best in All The President’s Men:
“The thing you’ve got to remember is that these are not very smart guys.”
Thanks Christy.
I really appreciate Eugene Robinson pointing out that when you’re Attorney General, and your answers to a lot of questions start off with “it’s my understanding…,” it underlines how really, really unqualified you are.
I think Jesus’ General has called Gonzales his favorite real estate attorney. LMAO.
S.O.S. from MA @ 30
Hubris. And OBTW, he’s mad. The Gods got to him real early, like his friends.
Too easy! He has handlers and they must read.
“Who are you going to believe me or your lying eyes” Or the interrupted, halted investigations? Or investigations that may have “clouds” cast over them?
On that note.
I have been asking this question for several weeks. Will Paul McNulty be taken out during this AG Scandal? Turns out war profiteering Senator Feinstein is not happy with McNulty. Is this an indicator of what is to come?
http://online.wsj.com/public/a…..?mod=blogs
Kristol has been tickled pink with this AG scandal. I still believe that he and his other right wing radical Israeli firster friends would like to witness McNulty take a hit. What a way to cast a cloud over the upcoming A*P*C /espionage trial coming up on June 4. Mcnulty is one of the prosecutors for that trial.
Will there be a 5th delay in the A*P*C/espionage trial? Lastest news
http://www.dailypress.com/news…..s-virginia
Totally OT – It’s Free Cone Day at Ben & Jerry’s :)
twolf1 @ 36
It’s Free Clown Day at the DOJ.
g’ morning, all… coffee’s ready.
I’m ready for some justice.
“Honesty” is non-existent within the Bush administation, and the previous Republican controlled Senate did not give a damn!
Go Fitz, Leahy, Waxman, Conyers! The American people Republicans, Democrats and Independents are starving for accountability, honesty and justice. There has been a famine for the last 7 years
“…to his knowlege…” this would be screamingly funny, if it weren’t for the fact that it’s, you know, the justice system at stake.
Speaking of stakes, I’d hope we’ll see a few of them pounded hard into this nation-destroying administration.
No pardons. They’ve all got to do time.
As a Latin professor I’ve been thinking about the language used by these bozos for a while. I even use the “mistakes have been made” mantra as a way of teaching the impersonal passive.
What I am thinking is that they have a professional linguist on the staff who coaches them not only in the weasel speak of how to avoid responsibility, but also, who coaches them in using the passive. As teachers we always tell students NOT to use the passive because it detracts from and weakens their argument. I think the Bushies use it to try to confuse and deflect and even soften the effect of their admissions.
Fortunately, I think the number of people perceiving this as weak passive weasel-speak is rising every day.
According to Raw Story, Condi to be supeonaed Wednesday.
snowbird42 @
29
It’s always mindboggling trying to figure out the logic behind these crackheads.
Citizen Jane @ 41
“weasel speak” May I quote you?
Closing in on Doolittle
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/003024.php
On E-mails. Please,Please Can America have someone in IT stand up and become a DEEPthroat
Please do it for AMERICA.NOW!
Of what i just read blackwell controled the severes…. deadeye dick and the rnc were using.
OldCoastie @ 42
What a bunch of savory characters these guys running our country are! All of them under some cloud of scandal or corruption or lies.
kathleen @
44
“weasel speak” May I quote you?
Closing in on Doolittle
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/003024.php
In working with college students’ essays, we say often that the problem with passive voice is that it buries the subject. Explains why this administration finds it so useful.
OT but it appears the Indiana sec. of State went to the Don Imus school of public relations. This is the guy in charge of elections who also pushed for the stringent voter ID laws. Is there really any question why our elections and DOJ are such a corrupt mess? Be sure to read the comments after the article to see what the 30 percenters really think.Indystar.com
Christy, you’re spot on about the intervention. We’ve been in thrall to this gaggle of Goopers for so long, it’s really taking a toll on the people as well as the country (okay, and the world). And though it’s simplistic, I suppose, I keep coming back to Junior doing the (arguably) dry drunk thing. That’s humongous in a family of, say, four people. So do the math re the Bush administration and the country.
And then the big “so what” and “what then”? Patrick Fitzgerald came close to being the intervention facilitator, mostly because he is essentially apolitical (publicly, anyway).
Patience and more patience. (STORM THE BASTILLE!) Patience.
weaselspeak (n.) passive voice, rife with ambiguity and conflation and contortion. Meant to confuse. Orig. Bush Administration, Frank Luntz, Karl Rove.
Mae @
24
They are S H A M E L E S S
Good Morning Christy & Firedogs,
S.O.S., thanks very much for the Frappr map – have always wanted to have something like that here at the lake – love that slide show! – may I suggest you link it so that all Firedogs have to do is click on your name ? I may even install one over at windcatpond – but that would involve, um, actual working on the site :)
Anyone going to watch Perle doc on Frontline tonight? I’m not sure I can stomach it.
I like the “Who do you beleive, me or your liyin’ eyes?”
It’s from the Marx bros. I believe Chico Marx, in a baseball sketch. It would be great if it’s on YouTube.
—–
And I love “weasel-speak”. We should tag them with this every chance we get.
Amen. I hope you’re right.
snowbird42 @ 29
There’s no one to replace him from Bush’s point of view. The new AG would have to be confirmed by the new Congress. That will make investigation of the Bush administration much much easier. It’s not in Bush/Cheney/Rove’s (and many, many other top ranking officials) to let that happen.
Richard Perle–never has one man so loved the mellifluous tones of his own voice.
Former Republican Presidential Candidate Turns Blue (Pete McCloskey)
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..155323/258
Indyblue @ 48
another Indy fact of note is that Kevin Ring, Abramoff’s go-to guy, is with Indy’s Barnes & Thornburg.
I’ll refrain, for the moment, from going off on the extent to which I dislike B & T, occasonally running into their smug selves in litigation.
Morning everyone.
Waaaay OT: Billy Joel used to tell about being at a Yankees game not long after this song became a hit. Some kids recognized him, asked if he was Billy Joel. He said no, of course not. They insisted he had to be. He insisted he wasn’t. Then a few of them around him started singing, “Hoooonnnnnnnesty!” Until a whole bunch of people in the section joined in. Billy thought it was hilarious.
Doesn’t it feel, sometimes, like we’re those kids spotting the real deal? Too bad the people we’re razzing don’t have the humility, class and good humor of Billy Joel.
I think Monica will be the one to lay it all out. The WH and DOJ. She will be granted immunity and that will leave her little choice. If she refuses will that be contempt of Congress? How about Palose? If she was her aide it would seem to reason she has information of contacts back and forth? It would be great to have ALL the e-mails but that is a little far fetched. If they can recover enough to establish bits and pieces the hiouse of cards will fall. One of the amszing things about this administration from any department: when it hits the fan it only lands in a small area around Cheney and Rove.
Yes please. I would love to know how these KarlBots were being groomed for their Adept positions, because they certainly weren’t working for justice.
Great post Christy. Good morning all.
Inaccurate? Dishonest? Misleading? Criminal?
Yeah, Congress is going to go with inaccurate.
mui @ 62
Is there a secret U S A finishing school we should know about?
OT and then away. Could someone tell me why the Virginia Tech president felt obliged to ID the shooter as an Asian student??? So, like, it wasn’t one of our own white kids, just so you know?
barbara @ 65
Also OT —- any idea of the racial breakdown at VT?
Inaccurate? Dishonest? Misleading? Criminal?
I prefer mendacious, sanctimonious, fraudulent and iniquitous. But that’s the writer in me.
Wigwam @ 51
FWIW, I just want to point out, there are similarities here with what happened at ENRON. There was a tremendous about of DENIAL at Enron about what was happening, as it happened. “Blame the media,” was one excuse they made. Skilling quit, but he absolutely refused to concede that anything was wrong. My attitude is “don’t force it, get a bigger sledge hammer.” This is a Bush nightmare, a bipartisan effort to essentially impeach his AG. The best/only way to break through denial is to continue to hold people accountable for their actions. Gonzales wants to continue cashing his Federal paycheck every two weeks, we’ll hold his sorry ass accountable.
Texas Betsy @ 64
If I let my imagination run, I can almost picture one. How about you?
I didn’t even know we had a Ben & Jerry’s shop here…
Sorry but I couldn’t get the link to post @48. Here is the address:
http://www.indystar.com/apps/p…../704170404
Great Yearlykos items being auctioned on ebay!!
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZyearlykosQQhtZ-1
I think the money quote is this one:
He said that Mr. Gonzales’s role in discussions about Mr. Iglesias and Ms. Lam had been previously disclosed; that Mr. Gonzales’s statements about his lack of recollection about the White House meeting were accurate; and that his accounts of it to Mr. Sampson and others were based on what others had told him, not on his own memory.
So the new story is: Gonzales went to a meeting. He does not recall the meeting. Someone else told him he was at the meeting. He told Sampson about the meeting not based upon the fact that he remembered the meeting but because other people said he was there. When asked if he was at the meeting he said he did not recall. Therefore his statement that he does not remember the meeting is accurate as are Sampson’s recollections that he (Gonzales) was at the meeting. Oh my.
Republics must feel that no one will remember their acquiescence during the Bush era.
Texas Betsy @ 66
How about because they were not sure they had the shooter and needed to give as accurate a description as possible.
barbara @ 65
I haven’t followed, so pardon the stupidity. Was it an asian student? That would be highly unusual.
mui @ 76
And why is that?
Wigwam @ 51
… And the media are
L I M P
… and We, the People are
L A Z Y
… because we are
T O O – C O M F O R T A B L E
… and the Media keeps most of us
B L I N D – D E A F – A N D – D U M B ! !
… we need more Paranoia and less Normaloia!
Kathleen at 44–quote away, I think it should be weasel-speak and I’m sure I’m not the first to demean the poor weasel in this way. :-)
Hey, I just realized the model for the testimony that Gonzales has been practicing!
FWIW, I’ve heard others opine that Monica may have missed her chance at immunity, with that ridiculous attempt by her lawyer, Dowd, to intimidate the Committee. Judiciary may not even need to give her immunity, if they can read her emails. They can just move directly to prosecuting her for official misconduct. She can plead the 5th in a criminal trial to her heart’s content.
Redshift @ 80
Steve Martin?
from ABC News
VIRGINIA TECH GUNMAN HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS A STUDENT OF KOREAN DESCENT NAMED SEUNG HUI CHO. HE WAS CARRYING A BACKPACK WITH A RECEIPT FOR THE PURCHASE OF A HANDGUN.
raven @ 75
Nuh-uh. This (I believe) was a press statement. One of my early thoughts about this horror story was: Please let the shooter not be from the Middle East. You know where I was going with that. Racism is alive and well in the melting pot (said the white Swede).
mc @
9
I see a marionette, passed around from Bush to Meiers. Both performing for Karl’s enjoyment.
I think one reason his incompetence is becoming evident now is having Fred Fielding on board for Bush’s second term. He likely pulled the curtain on the puppet show.
Frodo has been put in a box.
GeorgeSimian @
53
Nope. Already got my fill of that unindicted co-conspirator Perle from a much earlier Frontline program on North Korea in which he was interviewed. Everything that went wrong with NK can easily be identified by comparing Perle’s comments with those of Albright and Perry.
The man is a criminal — the incredibly stupid kind — and I won’t waste a minute watching his sorry, smarmy mug on my television unless he is being frogmarched.
Citizen Jane @ 79
Weasels have a bad rep for a reason. They are nasty critters. As are the weasels running the government (into the ground.)
Texas Betsy @ 83
If he was a Korean national it might explain his familiarity with guns since they have universal military service.
Prairie Sunshine @ 57
Well said. Now a whole hour on PBS for us to enjoy it too. Behold the great pontificator.
cbl @ 52
You’re very welcome; I appreciate your kindness. As for the rest of your nice note, that’s (a) not up to me and (b) something to discuss over there.
And now back to our regularly scheduled topic… :)
Citizen Jane @
41
When there is no subject, there is no responsible party and thus no guilt.
Helen @ 73
THere was a great Steve Martin skit yers ago on I think SNL. He claimed to have found a loop hole around murder, just say “I forgot”. “You honor, I forgot that murder is a crime.” It was hilarious.
“The shooter was an Asian male who lived in a Virginia Tech dormitory, the president said, declining to provide further details.” (CNN)
This isn’t the piece I saw, but was fastest to find.
raven @ 88
“Korean-descent” does not tell us anything about his nationality or where he was raised.
I knew it, due to Monica it is Bill’s fault !
Badwater @ 82
Yup!
raven @ 75
Well Raven, not to go all sarcastic. But I notice folks in particular areas are foggy as to what constitues “Asian.” It could include Indian, Mexican, Chinese, Japanese etc, or anyone with vaguely “Asian” complexion and facial features (not a good indicator). I also notice that some folks have a tendancy to call all E. Asians “Chinese.” When in fact they are Vietnmaese, or “Japanese” when they are in fact Chinese.
cccmask @ 72
Thanks for pointing this out!! LOVE those orchid photos by Major Danby, might make a nice Mother’s Day gift for my orchid-loving mother.
Seung Hui Cho, a permanent resident of the United States, a Korean national and a Virginia Tech student has been identified as the gunman in the shootings that left 33 people dead on the Virginia Tech campus Monday, ABC News has learned.
Cho’s identitiy has been confirmed with a positive fingerprint match on the guns used in the rampage and with INS materials. It is believed that he was the shooter in both incidents yesterday. Sources say Cho was carrying a backpack that contained receipts for a March purchase of a Glock 9 mm pistol, sources said. Witnesses had also told authorities that the shooter was carrying a backpack. Sections of chain similar to those used to lock doors at Norris Hall, the site of the 30-victim massacre, were found inside a Virginia Tech dormitory, sources confirmed.
Gonzales’ role in this scandal is curious but largely irrelevant. It is obvious a great deal was done without his direct orders, but it is equally clear that his subordinates acted in a manner consistent with his views.
The real problem is that any attorney general appointed by President Bush is going to be writing memos in support of torture. A lame duck attorney general may be preferable to someone new.
VA Tech news conference starting.
OT but this seems to be running through everyone’s mind today. My son and his girlfriend are engineering students at Va. Tech. Yesterday was a very tense and incredibly sad day. My advice to my son was: resolve to never pick up a weapon in anger; resolve to know and listen to your friends when they are in trouble or hurting; resolve to spend every day on this earth like you mean it (not like it’s your last). My heart goes out to all the parents, to my countrymen and to all those around the world who will feel this pain along with us. Maybe some good can come from it. Maybe we can stop the warmongering and violence in our culture. It’s in their hands now.
Texas Betsy @ 94
No, it doesn’t, but earlier stories had indicated that he was a foreign student. Don’t know if that has been borne out or not.
I will alos point out that the first victim that has been Id’d was an african american from here in Georgia for all of you pursuing the racial angle.
TiredFed @ 102
Please give your son and his GF our best wishes and our thoughts for peace.
Redshift @ 103
twolf1 @ 36
Has anyone tried Americone? They don’t carry it in my corner ’supermarket’ in midtown Manhattan.
S.O.S. from MA @ 30
Hubris. And OBTW, he’s mad. The Gods got to him real early, like his friends.
he’s a convenient lightning rod for bush and cheney. he’s the shiny object drawing attention while they continue to pursue their below-the-radar objectives.
raven @ 106
Reading Gonzo’s comments, one is struck by several features. From a psychological standpoint, it appears that the anxiety that his own words must engender within him are overwhelming. At some deep, subconscious level he must be aware of how foolish and unsupportable his position appears to everyone else in the world. And yet at a conscious level, he just can’t understand it. He knows what he WANTS reality to look like, so rather than deal with the angst, he simply asserts that his imagination is reality. Now I am the last person to act be an apologist for someone who bears a huge burden of responsibility for his job. If anything, his deep denial is, by itself, reason to remove him from his job. But one of the interesting sidelights is what is motivating others in the administration to act like co-dependents in his denial. I think we can all guess at what deep secrets are driving their anxiety.
Christy writes, “…in all honesty, this has got to stop”. And that is certainly correct from the point of view of having a trustworthy, transparent government that can actually act in the interest of the people it is supposed to serve. Gonzo’s stance, taken to its logical conclusion, means that no one can ever be accountable for anything that they do. We might just as well unlock all the doors and let out every convict, because every one of them can claim the same right to denial as our leaders. The line of accountability has to be drawn in the sand somewhere. The trouble is, where on the slippery slope of human fallibility do you draw the damn line? Daniel Goleman has written a compelling review of human denial in Vital lies, simple truths: The psychology of self deception. He provides a fascinating insight into the underpinnings of the human mind, one which provides a broader understanding of how people come to act like Bush, Cheney, Gonzales (and Clinton I might add). It is certainly a cautionary tale for those of us inclined to worship at the altar of personality cults. But it raises some very troubling issues from a legal point of view about how to hold someone accountable for behavior they cannot consciously acknowledge. My personal belief is that the Founding Fathers understood this, and that the system of checks and balances must never be circumvented because of the known and certain outcomes of human behavior.
The bottom line may be that when people behave in an irresponsible way, they must be promptly and unflinchingly removed from their responsibility and their actions investigated as thoroughly as necessary to undo their misdeeds. But it’s not clear that we can expect them to learn from their mistakes.
One of the KEY things that DoJ has not released documents on is:
“Was Patrick Fitzgerald ever on the list?” and, if so, “Who took him off?”
Because, if Fitz was on the list AND ‘Sealed vs. Sealed’ is Fitz vs. Gonzo over ‘unlawful political influence’ on the Rove indictment – that’s an air-tight, bi-partisan case for Impeachment right there.
BushCo is running hard…Gonzo’s just a lackey…and Rove, as soon as he dodged the indictment, ruthlessly wanted Fitz out of the way.
In chess, this is analagous to Bush being pinned behind Rove – it’s not ‘check,’ yet – and Gonzo is an isolated pawn about to be cleared out of the way – but Bush doesn’t actually have room to maneuver here.
We are only a couple of moves away from a ‘mating net’ on Corruption – which Bush’s privilege can’t shield against.
Stock-up on popcorn, these next 48 hours may not complete the Justice cycle for BushCo, but it should reveal the fatal cracks, from foundation to roof, that will (finally) take them down.
Helen @ 73
Well Said. I hope the committee will use your statement. I believe the PRess Release statement alone qualifies as to why ABU is not competent enough to be the AG.
Agreed. If he resigns we start looking at ROVE and they can’t have that!
raven @ 104
Oh, Raven, I’m not pursuing the racial angle. It’s a human tragedy. But why in the world does the ethnicity of the shooter matter? Dead is dead and crazy is crazy, irrespective of race. I just found it odd that the Virginia Tech prez found it necessary to make that distinction. And actually, I should probably cut him some slack, because this is such a horrific situation, I’m surprised he could be coherent.
Slightly OT.
So, now that the shooter has been ID’d as Korean, will the Bushies also deflect responsibility to the Koreans rather than the easy availability of guns in this country?
Most Koreans I know (including my husband) tend more toward the conservative side, so it will be interesting to see how the Korean-American community reacts. My in-laws are huge Bushbots (not hubbie or I wouldn’t be married still). If I hear anything interesting I’ll let my fellow pups know.
radiofreewill @ 111
That’s a lot of IF’s
barbara @ 114
I was not responding to your comments alone but what I perceived as a trend.
Hi all: wrt the shamelessness of the Bushies, and the Perle/Frontline doc on tonight:
The WaPo is having an online chat today at 11AM EDT featuring none other than Perle himself. As I sometimes do w/these Post chats, I posted a question, touching on some things he may not otherwise plan on addressing, e.g. ‘how it feels to have the blood of thousands of Americans and Iraquis on your hands,’ etc. etc. Here’s the URL in case any pups have burning Q’s for Mr. Perle:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01624.html
Can’t watch the press conference; yesterday afternoon’s was absolutely horrible. I felt bad for the school because they obviously had no comprehension of the need for a public affairs/press secretary at such an event, to keep the questions focused and one at a time. Made the school look very incompetent — when I’m sure the real challenge is that VT is a technical school, placing emphasis on technical performance and not on what might be perceived in normal situations as unnecessary marketing.
I’ve worked with a number of VT engineering students and graduates over the years; they have been friendly, generous and technically excellent folks. Can’t help but think with concern about one of my friends who’d lived in Lynchburg. What must she be thinking? I’d rather I could continue to remember her sweating over her classes in electronics rather than this sad event at her alma mater.
radiofreewill @ 111
this I want to know.
My point in suggesting immunity for Goodling (only) is because she was high up at the DOJ. And a 33 year old woman from a diploma mill law school. I would bet my family jewels she was more of a gofer and mule for the others. If she was making decisions on firings she didn’t do it on her own. It isn’t just the replacement of USAs it was the intent after all were in place. Were they going to sabotage investigations of Republicans? Lean heavy on Democrats by claiming “election fraud?” Target alleged Democratic corruption and only bring a token Republican transgressions? There are a lot of possibilities and I wouldn’t put any of them past Rove. Monica was there and she could be the ‘Food of Plenty.’ Had immunity been used more judiciously during Iran-Contra, Poindexter, Abrams, and North would all have served prison terms. Maybe not. Bush would have pardoned them. But then they would have been admitted felons. In my mind they are. Their actions proved them guilty.
Returning to an old theme: if everyone seems to regard Gonzales as a liar or incompetent (and not someonw with a memory problem)–then what is the method of holding him accountable (which everybody wants)?
It seems to me everyone expects a rational President to fire the guy or ask for his resignation or something like that. That clearly won’t happen.
Some have mentioned “impeaching” Gonzales, but can you in fact apply impeachement to a Justice Official?
I presume there is no higher authority at DOJ then Gonzales himself, so he can’t be fired.
Then there is the faint hope that someone will prosecute him in a court of law for some kind of infraction, but so far the grounds seem tenuous.
And Congress might go through a lot to resurrect a Special Prosecutor path to Gonzales, but it can’t or won’t.
So somebody explain to me what is supposed to be the solution?
IMHO, based on the complexity of everything, and I mean everything because like the Mafia, it is all connected, immunity deals should be off the table. Witnesses should prove their good faith by telling what they know and any committees can promise only a really good word at sentencing.
Iran Contra let all those guys get off, including VP Bush between pardons and convoluted immunity deals. Since we don’t own the judiciary we should be very careful.
There are enough involved between Abramoff, Cunningham, Delay, DoJ politization that we will have whistleblowers and people trying to cut a deal.
It is pretty obvious it is exploding. I personally think the small fish truthtellers will escape prosecution without immunity promises.
nellieh @ 61
how is it possible that an individual who takes the fifth remains employed at the justice department?
barbara @ 114
Raven, a racial angle *always* comes out, whether or not we point it out. It is our duty here is wary patriots at FDL to be analyse and be skeptical of the news.
A professor from Israel gave his life to protect his students at VT.
VT Hero Professor
Of course, our president will insist that we still have the right to bear arms.
dmg @ 124
It is a BUSH ADMIN justice dept.
dmg @ 108
Interesting theory; we sure have seen lotsa shiny objects (aka “red herrings”) drawn across our paths recently (tyvm MSM). However I must beg to differ; my theory is that yes, they’re trying to use Gonzo as a firewall behind which they can continue to steal from Iraq and the US Treasury, but will it work out long-term? Not so much.
Once Gonzo is, that event will (I fondly hope) be seen in retrospect as yet another heat-shield tile melting away in the white-hot glare of public political opinion. Soon the entire Bushie Enterprise will be a streak of disintegrating fire in the sky.
I only hope it isn’t an asteroid that wipes out the USA, if not all life on the planet.
Erasmus @ 100
I disagree — it’s important that the standard Bushie dodge “I take responsibility (but not blame)” not be allowed to work as it did under the Rubberstamp Congress. If it’s your job to supervise the US Attorneys and it’s handled scandalously, the fact that it wasn’t done on your “direct orders” is what’s irrelevant.
The appointment of the “Green Zone at the DoJ” staff, and the fact that none of them were fired as a result of this “mishandling” is central to this entire operation.
Any new Attorney General will have to be confirmed by the Democratic congress. This may mean that we’ll have weak “acting” AGs for two years, but the one thing it won’t mean is another pro-torture, anti-rule-of-law AG.
hi good people,weasel words comes from
“the wind in the willows”
my dictionary of weasel words has a website
http://www.weaselwords.com.au and solicit examples from
the public
please accept for all the families of the murdered innocents my deepest condolences.
on the subject of honesty, the media never seem to have the slightest problem shoving the most insensitive and graphic facts down our throat when it comes to tragedy.
when it comes to probity,it’s an entirely different matter.
i hope that link works.
Citizen Jane @ 115
My experience with Koreans came with 13 months in Korea and a year in Vietnam. I very much resepect Koreans as incredibly hard working, intelligent folks but I also know their military is very tough. In Vietnam the VC and NVA pretty much avoided contact with them because of their tactics and dedication
Besides the American effort, South Korea’s was the second largest fighting force in Vietnam, and the last out,
leaving in March 1973. The South Korean President at the time Chung Lee Park, proudly explained that fighting
in Vietnam would not only solidify their national security, but also contribute towards strengthening the anti-
communist front of the free world.
Korean Army in Vietnam
The only point I am making here is that if the shoot, as reported, was a Korean National, he was well trained in the use of firearms.
dreamcatcher @ 126
Thank you for that link
Raven @125
I had read all about the first victim–he actually wanted to study in my husband’s field–but missed that he was African American. Now I am wondering whether I just didn’t pay attention, or whether the info was not in the NYT–was it on the local news here?
The racial angle is interesting to me because my Korean husband was just saying yesterday how society usually classifies poor african americans as violent as a group yet it is usually young white males who go on shooting sprees. Now it will be interesting to see how they classify this shooter. In general, I think Caucasians perceive Asians as “more like us,” so this could be very interesting in terms of how it is cast racially.
Remember, y’all, I’m married to an Asian and have been referred to as 1/2 of “that bi-racial couple” before, so I am aware of the racial angle and interested, not defensive, just interested and aware.
From my sisten-in-law, a prof at Tech
It wouldn’t surprise me if the gunman was killing his girlfriend because she wanted to leave him or she cheated on him and he then went after the new guy. What we need to ask ourselves is why are so many males so angry at women when she wants to leave him? Why can’t they cope with that loss? Why do they think killing them is the only solution?
GeorgeSimian @ 53
I thought it was America at a Crossroads with Perle tonite. I probably will watch (eyesrolling & yelling)and afterwards wash my brain, rinse & repeat. Last nite was shameless PR with West Point hotties who just love their military jobs. And the Iraqis were staged and politely questioned, no slums here. And the polite military was just looking for the “bad guys.”
Helen @ 73
And we all thought that little “memory erase thingy” in Men in Black was made up.
dude @ 122
Yes, you can. Any federal official outside of Congress can be impeached by Congress.
Good morning, everyone!
I wonder if she’ll bring her Color Guard along
(As soon as I learned the Democrats had taken the House last November, I knew that Congressman Conyers would be ready to take on this administration. I love his tenacity!)
cathy @ 135
There has been a lot of study on that, related to both stalking and to domestic violence.
raven @ 131
Taiwan, Turkey, Israel and numerous other countries have mandatory armed service duty. I’m not sure how much that factors into proficiency with arms.
cathy @ 135
because they’re young, without defenses for the swirl of deeply felt emotions that could overwhelm them, and they lash out blindly?
i’m not, obviously, excusing. and i’m offering this on the fly, just as you asked your question on the fly. but let’s not paint the actions of one individual as symptomatic of the many.
mui @ 141
Really, what do you suppose military training is?
Raven @ 131–In re Korean toughness
My father-in-law grew up under the Japanese occupation of Korea and served in the Korean Air Force as a physician (flight surgeon). His best friend and friend’s wife met in the army together (tough discipline led them to beat their kids on a regular basis–something which would never fly with my tender-hearted father in law and formerly Buddhist mother in law!). So, Koreans are very tough in my opinion. My FIL was a refugee twice–Japanese and Koreans.
According to the CIA, the age for Korean service is 20-30 for compulsory and 18 for voluntary. So, this kid could have served already or perhaps not…I’m sure this info will come out and it will be interesting to see the Korean as well as the American reaction.
Citizen Jane @ 41
It’s the one thing the people in the Bush administration excel at – weasel speak. . Rove and Luntz should be granted Honorary Doctoral Degrees in Obfuscation.
Imavehmontah @ 110
Maybe. I would also say that this atmosphere breeds suspicion. Gonzo was doing the President’s bidding, after all. And now the WH is spinning this right into his lap. He must be feeling at least a little bit used.
Citizen Jane @ 144
I was staying away from being too graphic. We had KATUSA’s in our unit Korean Augmentation to the United States Army. Their senior NCO’s literally beat the troops with their weapons when the fucked up.
raven @ 143
Umm, people I know who went through training just wanted out and went through the motions. They hated the military. Israelis, Taiwanese, and Turks included. They weren’t concerned with being proficient.
Mae @ 24
Which is why I think the only way to make them stop is to impeach them. If they are allowed to continue without some legal action, they set a hideous precedent for anyone who follows them in office to cite. I would like to think that anyone I would vote for would not do that, but ya never know.
Your Honor, to my knowledge I didn’t rob the bank. Thank you ladies and gentlemen of the jury, respective counsels, I’ll be on my way now.
DMG-
They happened to be young, but I’ll bet every community has a story of a husband who killed his exwife because she wanted out. Even my quiet suburb has one.
Interesting article on wingnuts vs. Gonzo: http://www.time.com/time/natio…..38,00.html (you also link to it thru antiwar.com). My guess is our AG is toast…
raven @
147
Sounds about right–Korean husband calls that “going Korean on” someone. As in DH saying, “if anyone ever messes with our daughter I’m just gonna go Korean on him.”
Citizen Jane @ 144
Lost in moderation I think. We had KATUSA’s (Korean Augmentation to the United States Army) in my unit in Korea and it was unreal what they considered “discipline”.
MSNBC breaking news: Officials say one gun used in both Virginia Tech shootings
To change the subject a little: what NYT article today contains these four words?
Feith, Wolfowitz, Riza and Toensing
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04…..owitz.html
cathy @ 150
Great book here with a lot on stalking in the context of domestic violence.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 155
The same gun(s)9mm and 22.
Redshift @ 138
The Decider would not like that.
cathy @ 150
i don’t doubt it, but i emphasized the age because i think we forget just how powerfully teens and early 20ers FEEL things.
THAT’S why something like music matters to them so much — it accesses and stimulates these emotions; THAT’S why the tidal wave of love can have such a drastic pull.
i remember when one girlfriend dumped me in college. i was an absolute wreck. friends took turns hanging with me — even as i slept — because they were worried about me, and because more than one of them could commiserate.
it never occurred to any of us that the answer was to go out and kill someone. but then, that wasn’t our background. people who come from a background where guns and violence are a genuine option might choose to take it.
barbara at 84 — Because the President was likely reading off the police description — which requires that the perpetrator be identifed via whatever markers make him/her readily identifiable, including age, race, clothing, etc. It is standard law enforcement procedure, and the President of the university would have been reading from their description, most likely based on advice of counsel for the university to stick to what they know and not deviate from it.
Everything isn’t some conspiracy to be mean or what have you. These are likely decent people struggling through a very, very difficult situation right now. I think we should all cut them some slack.
cleter @ 7
Yes but that was about sex and no one investigates sex like a GOP Congressman.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 161
Thank you.
GeorgeSimian @ 146
These astroglide asses haven’t figured out that loyalty is a one-way street. Towit: Shooter’s revelation on FTN that he has not spoken with Scooter since the verdict. And still they protect their betters!
Badwater @
162
Investigates….instigates…inseminates…
radiofreewill @ 111
I’m sensing the end-game too. And I want to point out that Bush and Cheney have committed so many crimes that they have no idea what their legal exposure is. So they both need a plenary presidential pardon like the one that Ford gave Nixon:
So they surely have prepared an exit strategy where Bush pardons Cheney and then resigns, whereupon Cheney pardon’s Bush.
But there’s a catch. Per Article II Section 2, the President “shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment. And it only takes a simple majority of the House to make it a “case of impeachment.”
My guess is that these guys will soon be happy for any kind of deal they can make with future-president Pelosi.
It’s going to be even more crushing now. They are starting to tell WHO the victims were. Not just number now.
eCAHNomics @ 164
Assuming that Shooter was telling the truth seems to be a great leap of faith.
I had an interesting conversation with a couple people last night, and I’m curious of your thoughts on it – especially those of you who were politically knowledgeable back in the Watergate years.
A friend of mine, a long-time Republican who has seen the light over the past few years, has been providing me with a lot of insight as to how Republicans see this administration and the state of our country. He believes that most people are not going to pay attention to the unfolding Bush administration scandals. He says that he perceives that most Americans think Bush is dishonest, and so nothing he really does will surprise them at this point. Therefore, they won’t really pay any attention to the US Attorney scandal, the Abramoff scandal, the Libby verdict, and whatever interesting scandals are yet to come. He says that his impression is that most people who used to support Bush are a bit embarassed and just want him to go away quietly, so they’re likely to tune out claims of government corruption for the rest of Bush’s term.
My thought is that perhaps the vast majority of people won’t pay much attention until something very simple, clear and obvious is made apparent. For example: last night, I was surprised when the well-informed Daily Show audience gasped audibly when Jon Stewart mentioned that the WH has lost about 5 million emails. I figured that MOST people had heard the number already. I guess not.
Both of us are too young to have understood what was happening during the Watergate scandal, but we assume that the vast majority of people didn’t pay much attention to it until the tapes with the gap were discovered. It was clear that the WH was trying to hide something.
It’s my theory that the “missing” WH emails could be the tipping point for this scandal. If the WH doesn’t produce a full set of non-redacted emails soon, it will appear to most Americans with a moderate amount of computer knowledge that Bush is hiding something big. It could make it so even the people who just want Bush to quietly slink away will actually join the calls for investigations and criminal charges to members of the administration.
Whaddya think?
raven @ 154
Look a friend of mine from HK, is always saying that Westerners tend to have this weird idea that Asian culture is all meditation and Buddhist thought, when in fact Asian cultures have a history and still are incredibly violent. The bar fights that break out in the U.S. look like child’s play to him, because Chinese tend to playfor keeps.
That said and done, the Asian Miracles across the continent have wrought a lot of changes in S. Korea, Hong Kong etc. A lot of the younger generations don’t really have a clue about hardships that wrought so much violence back then. Sitting around with younger members of the family is like persons who went through the great depression ( ’60s and ’70s were bad times in Hong Kong) trying to explain what it was like back then. I just don’t think the Vietnam Era is a good characterization of today’s new S. Korean kid.
RockPaperScizzors @ 136
Does Frontline have an agenda? Just what and who do they promote?
Remember Ted Koppel documentary on Frontline ” Inside Iran the Most Dangerous Nation”. Now that is an unbiased title. During the documentary Koppel states that “it is not possible to negotiate with Iran”
Koppel is the new senior news analyst at NPR. Could this be more of that “pervasive cronyism” that NPR has been accused of and taken to court over. There was an independent investigation of the “pervasive cronyism” at NPR. The report has never been released.
Did you know that Koppel is Kenneth Pollacks father in-law (pusher of the invasion of Iraq and “allegedly” U.S.Gov-1 in the Rosen/Weissman/espionage trial)
eCAHNomics @ 163
Shooter also said that he and Scooter never discussed the Fitz case in the months leading up to it, even though they shared a car ride to the WH on a regular basis. Shooter says a lot of things. He often “misspeaks”.
landofthefree @ 169
I don’t think most people in this country give a shit one way or the other. It’s got to impact them directly, hence “All Volunteer Army”.
landofthefree @ 168
Think that’s why THOSE emails are missing?
mui @ 170
I agree. I became very interested in Buddhism and I am fascinated that such gentleness comes from places with such violent traditions. Ying and Yang I guess.
If AGAG resigns or is forced out, who will Bush appoint that will make it through the approval process? And what would a decent AG uncover when he gets to the DOJ? I think that is what they are most afraid of. They are going to keep Gonzales around unless they can get a stealth candidate.
BTW, is it just me or has the thought that yesterday’s massacre might have been an act of terrorism crossed anyone else’s mind as well? It seems like they are taking a loooooong time to confirm the number of shooters and the identity of the shooter. With many of the other massacres of the past, we knew pretty quickly whodunit. I know they are trying to be careful but does this strike anyone else as being odd?
landofthefree @ 169
The tipping point will be when Republics realize that they have to account for their lack of actions during the Bush era.
TiredFed — Am so glad your loved ones are safe.
portia.vz @ 176
Jeb’s not busy. Jeb for AG!
TiredFed @ 102
Hey TiredFed, I’m glad your son and his girlfriend are ok.
raven @ 175
mui @ 170
raven @ 154
Citizen Jane @ 144
Raven @ 131–In re Korean toughness
My father-in-law grew up under the Japanese occupation of Korea and served in the Korean Air Force as a physician (flight surgeon). His best friend and friend’s wife met in the army together (tough discipline led them to beat their kids on a regular basis–something which would never fly with my tender-hearted father in law and formerly Buddhist mother in law!). So, Koreans are very tough in my opinion. My FIL was a refugee twice–Japanese and Koreans.
According to the CIA, the age for Korean service is 20-30 for compulsory and 18 for voluntary. So, this kid could have served already or perhaps not…I’m sure this info will come out and it will be interesting to see the Korean as well as the American reaction.
Lost in moderation I think. We had KATUSA’s (Korean Augmentation to the United States Army) in my unit in Korea and it was unreal what they considered “discipline”.
Look a friend of mine from HK, is always saying that Westerners tend to have this weird idea that Asian culture is all meditation and Buddhist thought, when in fact Asian cultures have a history and still are incredibly violent. The bar fights that break out in the U.S. look like child’s play to him, because Chinese tend to playfor keeps.
That said and done, the Asian Miracles across the continent have wrought a lot of changes in S. Korea, Hong Kong etc. A lot of the younger generations don’t really have a clue about hardships that wrought so much violence back then. Sitting around with younger members of the family is like persons who went through the great depression ( ’60s and ’70s were bad times in Hong Kong) trying to explain what it was like back then. I just don’t think the Vietnam Era is a good characterization of today’s new S. Korean kid.
I agree. I became very interested in Buddhism and I am fascinated that such gentleness comes from places with such violent traditions. Ying and Yang I guess.
However, the Koreans still have a very real threat right acroos the river and I think their military is still tough as shit.
Badwater @ 178
Harriet?
kathleen @ 171
Is Pollack married to Andrea?
landofthefree at 7:07 am
It’s like Watergate in that the Democrats cannot convict without GOP support. IMVHO, this is still a bi-partisan investigation of politicizing the DOJ. Also, I think some of the GOP led by Hegel is thinking that maybe impeachment/conviction would inoculate the GOP in the 08 elections?
Mauimom @ 137
From Grant Morrison’s “Invisibles” One of the men in black treatens a main character:
“We will make you smooth between the legs and smooth between the ears.”
Kinda fits this admin to a “T”.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 178
Seconded.
GeorgeSimian @ 171
Point taken. But what would be his motivation for the particular ‘misspeak’ of claiming he hasn’t spoke to Scooter?
John Casper @ 183
It would sure help show they’re “not Bush”
Texas Betsy @
64
Regent U aka Pat Robertson U.
John Casper @ 184
Without that, the GOP is left to defend Bush and their acquiescence to him for several elections to come.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 161
I agree. That’s what I said @ 114.
landofthefree @ 168:
Part of the tipping point in Watergate was media driven. The Senate Select Committee hearings, chaired by Sam Ervin, were televised, live, displacing daytime soap operas.
For those not old enough to remember those days, this was pre-internet, pre-CSPAN, pre-cable. If you had a good tv set with a good antenna, you could get CBS, NBC, ABC, PBS, and perhaps some independent tv stations, and that was it. When every station killed their daytime programming to cover those hearings, it caught the attention of even the least politically attentive. “What happened to my soap operas?” became “What happened to my country?”
Fresh thread, up for everyone.
TiredFed @ 102
I’m glad your son and friend at VPI are safe. You gave your son excellent advice! I hope he repeats it to his friends.
radiofreewill @ 111
INteresting take on “sealed vs. sealed”
cathy @ 135
It’s likely somewhat primal. But in nature male mating battles are seldom fatal. On the other hand, male baboons don’t have Glocks.
According to Bushco, the point of the Iraq war was to keep us safe from terrorists. How are they gonna explain the killing of 33 United States Citizens by a Korean on a university campus? Maybe the MSM could emphasize, as well, that 60 US soldiers have been killed in April, including 5 on Monday, Apr. 16.
BAGHDAD, April 16 (Reuters) – Insurgents killed five American soldiers in Iraq on Monday, including three in Baghdad, the U.S. military said.
Around 60 U.S. soldiers have been killed in Iraq this month, putting April on course to be one of the deadliest for U.S. forces in many months….Around 3,300 American soldiers have been killed in Iraq
http://today.reuters.co.uk/new…..=L16297929
Diane Rehms program this morning is about the Tech killings. drshow@wamu.org
1-800-433-8850
The gentleman who took pictures with his cell phone during the shootings and was interviewed by Blitzer was a Palestinian and a lovely person. I believe Blitzer mentioned the man came from a prominent Palestinian family. I was so proud of the interviewee’s humanity and decency and hoping the wingnuts were really listening to him.
Rayne @ 86
What is the deal with Frontline giving Perle an hour to spread more lies? Just what is their agenda? Would that be like giving Ted Koppel plenty of time to air his “unbiased” (choke) agendamentary “Inside Iran”The most Dangerous Nation) such a neutral title) on Frontline.
Now Koppel has free reign to push for military action in Iran on NPR, since he is NPR’s new senior news analyst.
This is OT but has anyone been watching the America At the Crossroads series? I am watching last nites episode. Its obvious that we must get out of there. I can just see in my minds eye what is going on, we have something similar going on here in Washington DC with the citizens and the police, i.e. the police coming in with hard force, telling the residents “call us if you see any bad guys”. It just does not work that way.
For some background on the DC situtation, a young girl named Princess was killed for talking to the police here in DC.
There is no way to “win” the way we are doing it over there. I know how it feels to have a cadre of gun weilding high testosterone men breaking your door down in the middle of the night, it does not win “hearts and minds”.
kathleen at 200 — Go to the frontline website and you will see that they have been doing an entire series of documentaries on the issues involving the Iraq conflict and surrounding issues as well. It won’t be just Perle, if their documentary series is any indicator – there will be pros and cons, and they will examine fact versus fiction. They have done the same for Cheney, and it was excellent.
landofthefree @ 168
Re the Daily Show: most people just aren’t so up on details, like the “missing” emails–FDL types follow things much more closely than your average (or even above) citizen. Second, I think you’re right that some tipping point is near. Is always hard to predict exactly what will do it–maybe the emails, maybe something we haven’t heard yet. But the meltdown seems near. Watergate played out over a long period (months stretching to a year, as I recall) and there were various “highlights”–eg John Dean’s testimony (”a cancer on the Presidency”), the Saturday night massacre, Sam Ervin’s “what did the Pres. know and when did he know it?”. Looking back, it maybe had more the air of a Greek tragedy than one single event that sealed it. But who knows how what’s happening today will play out…
Christy Hardin Smith @ 202
Thanks. Koppel’s documentary on Iran was seriously lop-sided.
eCAHNomics @ 183
Yes
Kathleen at 195
It’s just my opinion on Sealed vs. Sealed, but it’s based on some reasoning:
- Sealed vs. Sealed was filed by the Plame Grand Jury in May ‘06
- Fitzgerald advised Luskin that Rove wasn’t going to be indicted in June ‘06
- The Libby indictment contains, imvho, two charges (the Cooper conversation) that belong to Rove
Ergo -
- Fitz had obtained an indictment of Rove
- Gonzo pocketed it and pushed the Rove charges onto Libby
- Fitz vs. Gonzo (unlawful political influence)
- Warrants issued to ‘watch’ Rove and Gonzo during the USA firings
- Walton agrees – unlawful political influence – rules for Fitz
- Gonzo resigns
Rove is next.
But, again, I’m only making a mildly informed WAG here.
kathleen @
171
Kenneth Pollock is a former Iran analyst who has written a book on the matter. Per the Wikipedia:
may be epu’d here, but
oh well — i think this
will resonate here:
i think mr. gonzales will fall-
completely-a-part, in tiny, little
pieces, to be swept-up, at/after
the judiciary hearing on thursday.
and i say this, not because i do
not think he has been well-coached,
and not because i do not think he
is smart enough to understand the
committee’s questions — mostly put
to him in advance, in writing (so
read: no “unprepared” stalls). . .
no — i think the documents will
do him in.
i have posted a series of easy-
view images, and analyzed each, bit
by bit, going substantially beyond
the abc news report of a direct con-
tradiction in gonzo’s own written
testimony — his opening statement.
take a look, but i think he is toast.
he cannnot escape the documents, plus
kyle sampson’s (and other staffer’s) direct
testimony. if three people remember clearly
that he attended a meeting in june 2006, and
that he received documents, he can’t credibly
be heard to say he didn’t have anything to
do with the carol lam cover-story.
he is done. stick a fork in him.
it is all over, save for the shouting.
that, and my ice cream, at 5:30 pm on friday.
Mae @ 3
i think that is EXACTLY the offer
to d. kyle sampson. and perhaps
others. . . i also think the documents
and mr. sampson’s march 29, 2007 testi-
mony, as supplemented this sunday, are
going to be very hard to get around.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 8
fair points, christy — but kyle sampson
seems to be the most exposed at the moment.
he has directly contradicted gonzales’ sworn
opening statement — and he is supported by
the documents, and by two other staffers’
sworn recollections. . . to quote — with
edits — the mighty fitz, this isn’t a he
said, she said. it is a he said, he said,
he said, he wrote, he wrote, he said VS.
one “i say. . .” – but i don’t really remember.
yes, i am an optimist.
radiofreewill @
111
Be still my heart
Mr. Gonzales is studying for the proverbial urine test.
hang a left @ 211
actually kyle sampson TESTIFIED on
march 29, 2007, that he suggested adding
mr. fitz to the list — but it was ultimately
shot down as a bad idea. . . because the
c.i.a. leak investigation was still in high gear.
just fyi.
Badwater @
179
Is Jeb an attorney?
“To my knowledge” is the phrase your attorney puts in front of all your statements when you answer a set of interrogatories from the opposing counsel in a lawsuit. That way, if you make a simple mistake, it can’t be used to “hang you” in front of a journey. In this case, its obviously being used differently.
Now we have the INTERNET.
Please, young and energetic investigators, use it as your primary via to disseminate.
Collect raw data and suggestions and theories that explain your observations.
Perhaps the MSM will be forced to at least mention some of it to protect the myth of “public interest” they operate under.
The vital data surrounding “Iran-Contra” affair was put intominor and scattered public records by many skilled and courageous persons who either were participants or careful investigators. The data was never broadly disseminated via MSM because attempts to do so were deliberately stifled. Legislators were under no pressure to act beyond ineffective feints.
radiofreewill @
206
i’ll stick with my oft-posted:
Gonzales.
Cheneycakes.
Fuckwad.
Rove will skate …..
I think the committee should not ask Gonzo to swear an oath to tell the truth. Then announce that this will eliminate the need for either side to pretend he is telling the truth and that the hearing is for entertainment purposes only.
rapier @ 218
p r i c e l e s s.
Abu Gonzales will appear at the committee hearing carrying a bottle of industrial strength eyewash and singing:
I’m gonna wash those lies right out of your eyes,
I’m gonna wash those lies right out of your eyes,
And send them on their waaaayyy!!!
Hey, who you gonna believe…me or your lying eyes?
I’m gonna wash those lies right out of your eyes,
I’m gonna wash those lies right out of your eyes,
And send…them…on…their…waaaaayyyy!!!!
Afterward, of course, the committee members will get out the soap and wash Abu’s mouth out.
dreamcatcher @
126
Wow. That was a moving story–a 75 year old professor staying calm and protecting his young students. Sounds like he lived through World War 2 (in Romania?), then awful regimes… before moving to Israel and then the U.S. All the terrible talk (some linked in fdl) about why people didn’t jump the shooter. Perhaps it takes someone with a lot of life experience (or training in chaotic dangerous situations) to understand what is happening while it’s happening.
O.k., enough of my uninformed ruminations–but thanks for the link.