PEACE!

Christy!

why?

What a shame and a damn shame at that. Can we stop with the killing, everywhere please.

-GSD

It’s an awful tragedy that shouldn’t happen to anyone, but it happens 2-3 times a day in Iraq.

Can we please have some respect for the victims and their families? Let’s have the Second Amendment debate another day, please.

Jesus god. My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims.

They have a cell phone movie with audio from outside the dorm. Sounds very much like a semi-automatic because there are more than 6 rounds in a row.

There may have been 2 shooters and 2 shootings 2 hours apart.

Not to self-promote too much, but here’s a photo of Norris Hall, where I understand some of the violence happened. It’s a place that has fairly deep resonance for me, because I took classes there when I was a little kid. I took this photo a few years later, and that’s my brother on the front steps, on the left side.

The version on Flickr is much lower resolution than the medium format scan, which shows the detailed brickwork. If anybody wants the hi-res scan, let me know.

Until we implement and enforce strict gun control laws in this country, we’ll always have plenty of our own terrorists.

Crazy, scary, so sad. As a college prof with a daughter at one college and a son about to go to another, well, we’re all praying for the injured kids…

Christy: Is it possible to take off the Enjoy at the end. It seems kinda…

Oh. Sorry. It’s that icon thing. What is that, anyway?

Sad and frightening beyond words.

And this kind of thing is happening on a daily basis in places like Iraq and Afghanistan and Darfur.

It is time to stop the senseless killing everywhere. Period.

Prayers and blessings to those who will now have to find ways to pick up the pieces of their shattered lives.

May the memories of the innocent students endure as a blessing… It’s an especially painful irony that Virginia is the home of NRA HQ.

For all of us, including those of us with kids off at college, this shooting strikes hard. My oldest boy attends another Big U., and the threat of armed nutters makes me want to chain him to my ankle.

raven at 7 — Sounded like a semi-automatic to me as well on the video. And for that many rounds to be going, even for that short bit of video, seems to me that someone planned a bit and brought extra clips. What a nightmare.

Veritas78 @ 5

It’s an awful tragedy that shouldn’t happen to anyone, but it happens 2-3 times a day in Iraq.Veritas78 @ 5

It’s an awful tragedy that shouldn’t happen to anyone, but it happens 2-3 times a day in Iraq.

What does that have to do with this?

Mrs. Tarquin Biscuitbarrel @ 15

May the memories of the innocent students endure as a blessing… It’s an especially painful irony that Virginia is the home of NRA HQ.

For all of us, including those of us with kids off at college, this shooting strikes hard. My oldest boy attends another Big U., and the threat of armed nutters makes me want to chain him to my ankle.

A lot of people still get the creeps around Austin’s tower. I’ve been on the campus a few times, and I couldn’t help looking up there to make sure…just in case…

Diary from a Kossack who is on campus.

Gang, I know that this sort of thing is really stressful. But don’t take it out on each other or I swear I will shut the comments off for the day.

Compassion, discussion, venting — all okay. Trying to smack each other around to let off some steam? Not okay. I’m making this clear in advance before emotions run any higher than they already are.

That video clip appears to police officers shooting at the perpetrator….

-GSD

Christy Hardin Smith @ 16

raven at 7 — Sounded like a semi-automatic to me as well on the video. And for that many rounds to be going, even for that short bit of video, seems to me that someone planned a bit and brought extra clips. What a nightmare.

Not just extra clips. One of the students on MSNBC has apparently mentioned that one of the shooters had a vest “covered with magazines.”

I friend of mine who lives in Blacksburg has two daughters at VT (fingers crossed)

And a weird question…

If there were two shootings, a few hours apart, weren’t the police already there to investigate the first? And a second could still occur?

LJ/Aquaria @ 22

Christy Hardin Smith @ 16

raven at 7 — Sounded like a semi-automatic to me as well on the video. And for that many rounds to be going, even for that short bit of video, seems to me that someone planned a bit and brought extra clips. What a nightmare.

Not just extra clips. One of the students on MSNBC has apparently mentioned that one of the shooters had a vest “covered with magazines.”

Clips are magazines.

I have a good friend and colleague who teaches there. My thoughts and prayers go out to him and his family, and all the victims and their families.

all i can offer now
is my intention that
the victims’ families
find peace — that is
all there is, at the
end of it all, i think — as
i, too, know more than a
little of columbine. . .

may they find peace.

and may the victims be
at peace — let us all
work for it, pray for it,
sing for it, dance for it. . .

and forever take the side of it. . .
as a community, perhaps we make
this our intention for this day. . .

p e a c e

MSNBC reports that there was one shooter — earlier they misunderstood that there was a shooter in custody and one dead. They are both the same person.

2 9mm Handguns, 12 round magazines and you can keep one in the chamber.

Tragedy. Just awful. Will the families ever recover?

Sounds like VaTech needs a better security department from all the info coming in about warnings. outta here.

raven @ 25

LJ/Aquaria @ 22

Christy Hardin Smith @ 16

raven at 7 — Sounded like a semi-automatic to me as well on the video. And for that many rounds to be going, even for that short bit of video, seems to me that someone planned a bit and brought extra clips. What a nightmare.

Not just extra clips. One of the students on MSNBC has apparently mentioned that one of the shooters had a vest “covered with magazines.”

Clips are magazines.

Perhaps I wasn’t clear. It wasn’t the clips I was referencing, but the extra. This wasn’t extra. This was a whole shitload of ammo.

In response to Raven & Beth Mechem over on the Abramaoff thread: Yes, I don’t know much about guns and I don’t understand why anyone would do something like this.

I’ve got to say though that responsibility for 600,000 dead Iraqis and 3,300 dead Americans plus about one million wounded rests squarely on the shoulders of Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz and the rest of the neocons and their enablers. To my way of thinking, their crime dwarfs what happened at Virginia Tech. Yet, I understand that ranking the relative importance of the two means nothing to someone who has lost a loved one. Nothing is more painful or incomprehensible and no one ever gets over it.

My sister-in-law teaches at VA Tech. Not in the Engineering dept, so I don’t think she’s among the casualties. Still, this has got to have the whole campus traumatized.

And I do know a few things about clips/magazines. I did have to pass that shooting part of the military.

MSNBC reporting that the shooter had two 9 mm handguns and that he shot and killed himself.

Perhaps I wasn’t clear. It wasn’t the clips I was referencing, but the extra. This wasn’t extra. This was a whole shitload of ammo.

Got it, this should answer the question of how one person could do all this damage. These are people who were in a confined space with no way out.

Senseless killing. What a tragedy. There are too many of these types of incidents happening in and around our schools.

Too often the shooters are alienated from their peers. We need to look around and do all we can to reach out. This all goes back to the alienation that is so much a part of our culture.

May the families who are affected all find peace.

Peterr @ 34

My sister-in-law teaches at VA Tech. Not in the Engineering dept, so I don’t think she’s among the casualties. Still, this has got to have the whole campus traumatized.

Mine too, she normally goes in very early but didn’t becuase she was late on her taxes.

Just got a fast email from my S-I-L that she’s OK as are the folks she works with. Sounds like she’s trying to reassure everyone about her safety quickly, and I’m guessing she will share more later today or tonight when she gets a chance.

My son would be so mad if I went and woke him. I always want to make sure he’s okay at times like these…

one last thought before I go out the door. This may seem callous, but I suggest pups watch and record FOX on this all day. I can promise they will give anyone watching more material to back our contention that they are NOT news and need to be saddled by the FCC. They will time and again make egregious, thoughtless and plain old made up statements all day about how this is all the fault of the left.

Sadly, Virginia makes it easy to have guns:
Under Virginia code Virginia Statute 15.2-915 localities may no longer regulate the firearms with sole exception of regulation of discharge of firearms.

To my way of thinking, their crime dwarfs what happened at Virginia Tech.

i hate to say this, but this is going to draw the msm away from many important political issues that would have dominated the news cycle this week. after the illegal wars of aggression, the mounting scandal rate, and the unconscionable number of religious zealots in this administration, is there anyone out there who can put anything past them? anything?

I have already seen a troll on another site rolling out the speculation as to the ethnic/relgious identity of the killer.

These are bad times.

-GSD

Terry Olson @ 30

Tragedy. Just awful. Will the families ever recover?

are you peeking in from work?

GSD @ 46

I have already seen a troll on another site rolling out the speculation as to the ethnic/relgious identity of the killer.

These are bad times.

-GSD

White male according to the tube.

CNN or MSNBC – don’t know which was on, reported the shooter had killed his mother and his wife last night.

What a sad, sad day for everyone.

Yet another violent, heart-wrenching tragedy.

The kind that happens every day in Iraq, though. 22 dead in Baghdad is a slow news day there anymore.

Just sayin’.

Oops, sorry, that was a wrong case. The VT suspect is still at large I belive

You know, soon after I came home from Vietnam I got into an argument with my mother when I said that the Manson murders and My Lai were the same kind of thing. I suppose that’s the point people are trying to make with these statements about Iraq and Va Tech.

dreamcatcher at 51 — Morva was involved in an incident last summer at Virginia Tech.

raven @ 48

GSD @ 46

I have already seen a troll on another site rolling out the speculation as to the ethnic/relgious identity of the killer.

These are bad times.

-GSD

White male according to the tube.

MSNBC reporting shooter an Asian American student who took his own life.

OMG!!! and to think i was worried about the flooding in my basement which isnt as bad as i first thought – and as i came upstairs i hear news of a shooting at Va tech – damn its horrible – easy access to guns especially in Va but thats another story – my prayers go out to families of those who’ve been killed and wounded i am so sad i’m really at a loss for words…..

dreamcatcher @ 51

A disturbed young man with previous police history named William Morva has been apprehended as a prime suspect in the VT shootings.

VT Suspect apprehended

…in August 2006

First I was a little taken aback by folks relating this to Iraq…..but you know, you’re right.

Every day, all the time, the rampant murder of innocents.

raven @ 52

You know, soon after I came home from Vietnam I got into an argument with my mother when I said that the Manson murders and My Lai were the same kind of thing. I suppose that’s the point people are trying to make with these statements about Iraq and Va Tech.

Bingo. I didn’t think I was being silly.

-GSD

Just imagine what the families of students and employees of VT are going through now trying to discover whether their loved ones are OK, have been injured or worse. This tragedy is going to effect people throughout the U.S. and maybe families overseas too.

To read about what the FBI found in the Columbine investigation, go here:

http://foia.fbi.gov/room.htm

Then go to A-Z, find Columbine, and read on. There is/was a group called Trench Coat something, that was behind the Columbine shootings. There is a dialog in the documents between a student and a member of that group from a website that the FBI got a hold of, and in it, the group member says there are going to be a lot more events like Columbine and worse. Very interesting read. Obviously, we don’t know if this is connected or not yet. That Trench Coat group is neo-nazi in origin. I don’t know if they still exist or not.

OT

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales Sandbagged Novation LLC Prosecution

http://www.pressrelease365.com…..n-1293.htm

This story has me in tears. I’m so sorry for the pain and loss this terrible shooting has caused. I’m also furious (though willing to reserve judgement) at the thought that it’s possible the lockdown from the first shooting was lifted too soon allowing the second shooting to occur.

hang a left @ 61

OT

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales Sandbagged Novation LLC Prosecution

http://www.pressrelease365.com…..n-1293.htm

I’m glad to see that story percolating up.

We in Bridgeport, West Virginia are so saddened by this senseless violence at your university. Our prayers and deepest sympathy are with you all.

oddmommy @ 57

First I was a little taken aback by folks relating this to Iraq…..but you know, you’re right.

Every day, all the time, the rampant murder of innocents.

Just to be clear. My prior post was not to denigrate the depressing severity of this tragedy, just that now we’ll have all this ENDLESS fucking media coverage and “analysis,” while innocent people continue to get blown to body parts every day in Iraq, with 1/100th of the notice and awareness at best.
.

CNN web says VA Tech had bomb threats & evacuations last Friday and on April 2.

The damn world is melting down.

newspaperbrat @ 54

raven @ 48

GSD @ 46

I have already seen a troll on another site rolling out the speculation as to the ethnic/relgious identity of the killer.

These are bad times.

-GSD

White male according to the tube.

MSNBC reporting shooter an Asian American student who took his own life.

That’s based entirely on what a “student” said, allegedly wounded himself and called MSNBC??? How does MSNBC know that was a legit call???

Annual deaths by gun in the US are proportionately about 40 times what they are in the next highest country in the developed world, which is, I think, France.

This suggests there may possibly be something wrong with our culture and attitudes towards weaponry IMO!

Mason @ 33

In response to Raven & Beth Mechem over on the Abramaoff thread: Yes, I don’t know much about guns and I don’t understand why anyone would do something like this.

I’ve got to say though that responsibility for 600,000 dead Iraqis and 3,300 dead Americans plus about one million wounded rests squarely on the shoulders of Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz and the rest of the neocons and their enablers. To my way of thinking, their crime dwarfs what happened at Virginia Tech. Yet, I understand that ranking the relative importance of the two means nothing to someone who has lost a loved one. Nothing is more painful or incomprehensible and no one ever gets over it.

I personally do not see anything wrong with drawing a parallel between this and Iraq. We opened the horrific Pandora’s box of killing in Iraq over 4 years ago. Yet until it such horrors visit their own doorstep, so many Americans still just don’t seem to care. They’re just tired of war but they don’t really think about the innocent victims. I have to listen to a guy down the hall spout enthusiastically about war in the Middle East at least twice a week.

That this is a tragic, heart-breaking event goes without saying. But people who are insensitive to the violence we unleashed in Iraq yet are shocked and saddened by this incident ought to think hard about what our country would be like if such acts of random violence like this happened on a daily basis around the country.

The media will absolutely flip out over this, shamelessly exploit the hell out of it, and bring us no closer to an answer about why it happened than what we have right now. It will be a disgusting spectacle I will try to avoid. And all too familiar.

Interview with a wounded student – says the shooter was an Asian male who appeared to be in his 20’s.

Ed*ard Teller @ 42

one last thought before I go out the door. This may seem callous, but I suggest pups watch and record FOX on this all day. I can promise they will give anyone watching more material to back our contention that they are NOT news and need to be saddled by the FCC. They will time and again make egregious, thoughtless and plain old made up statements all day about how this is all the fault of the left.

Well, we all remember the outrage the mighty moral Republicans heaped upon Big Dawg for damaging the tender moralities of America’s youth with his immoral acts. Setting such a poor example of pious rightousness would cast the next generation into the pits of deviant acts.

The mouthpiece of the rightards is a degenerate junkie and their “warrior” is a phone sex enthusiast who thinks harass is two words.

And the titular head of the Republican Party sets the example for wholesale slaughter as the solution as opposed to diplomacy.

I’m just sayin’.

lolo @ 47

Terry Olson @ 30

Tragedy. Just awful. Will the families ever recover?

are you peeking in from work?

Shhh!

To all those affected by this tragedy:-
Cover your heart with both hands and you will feel lots of love coming to you. Be strong, crying can be very cleansing, but let love fill your heart and you will have the strength to overcome any tragedy.
In Michael Moore’s Fahrenheit 9/11, he showed that Canadians have more guns per capita, yet our rate of gun- related violence is a pittance compared to the U.S.
One of the casualties of Bush’s illegal wars is that resources were diverted from reducing gun- violence and all other crimes. That and MORE children being left behind, which leads them to crime and violence.
Banning guns or giving everyone a gun will not solve violence, teaching people how to co- exist and respect others as we do in Canada (and Western Europe) is the only answer.
Love To All

Over the weekend the NYT had a distressing piece on compensation to families of killed Iraqis. Something like $2,000 per corpse or life, depending on your point of view? Wonder what the price of these lives will turn out to be? My guess is whoever is found negligent will provide more than $2,000 per death. But then, other countries don’t value life the way we do.

Abu’s gotta be hopin that the VT story spills over till tomorrow and muffles the screams from tomorrow’s lie-a-thon.

despairing @ 74

Over the weekend the NYT had a distressing piece on compensation to families of killed Iraqis. Something like $2,000 per corpse or life, depending on your point of view? Wonder what the price of these lives will turn out to be? My guess is whoever is found negligent will provide more than $2,000 per death. But then, other countries don’t value life the way we do.

You can bet the lawsuits against VT are already bein’ scratched out on yellow legal pads.

And, oh god, Bush will exploit it too. I’m already feeling nauseous.

I’m sorry, this is horrible. By no means do I mean to diminish the tragedy of it all. But we all know the media vultures are already circling and it just makes me sick to my stomach to think about all the exploitation ahead.

It’s been 24 years since I was briefly a grad student there, but it’s still a place I’m fond of.

Horrible, to hear that something like this has happened there.

TeddySanFran @ 6

Can we please have some respect for the victims and their families? Let’s have the Second Amendment debate another day, please.

No Disrespect, Teddy, but don’t you really mean “never?”

Lincoln,
Garfield,
McKinley,
JFK,
Medgar Evers
Malcolm X
MLK,
UT, Charles Whitman
RFK,
The attempts on Ford,
Congressman Leo Ryan
Lennon
The attempt on Reagan
The attempt on JP II
George Moscone,Harvey Milk,
The San Ysidro “McDonalds Massacre”
Columbine
and now this one.

Hundreds of Thousands of ordinary people over two hundred years.
Crimes of passion and acts of impulsive stupidity abounding.
When is the time?

Rumor: Killing spree over girlfriend

Mandrake @ 77

And, oh god, Bush will exploit it too. I’m already feeling nauseous.

I’m sorry, this is horrible. By no means do I mean to diminish the tragedy of it all. But we all know the media vultures are already circling and it just makes me sick to my stomach to think about all the exploitation ahead.

Newt used to exploit these things to blame Democrats. Will he now?

Mandrake @ 77

And, oh god, Bush will exploit it too. I’m already feeling nauseous.

I’m sorry, this is horrible. By no means do I mean to diminish the tragedy of it all. But we all know the media vultures are already circling and it just makes me sick to my stomach to think about all the exploitation ahead.

Mayber the shooter was “affiliated with al Qaeda.” See what happens if we don’t stay the course?

VTech students interviewed by CNN don’t want to leave the school. Just one more thing about techies that I will never understand.

ABC now reporting 29 dead in VA shooting…

So sorry for the VT folks.
“There’s been a disturbance in The Force.”
—–
I’ve got major tinfoil around this, though. Like Columbine, and other school shootings. The DC sniper(s). Manson and Jim ‘Kool-Aid’ Jones.

Some ‘nice game of solitaire’ is being played.

Parallax View. Conspiracy. JFK (imdb)

Not to mention the premise of “Handmaid’s Tale”.

—-
Again, condolences to the VT community. Each person on campus, and friends and family are like witnesses in Dealey Plaza Nov. 22, 1963.

—-
edit: ET is correct. FOX will be the spinner whatever the ‘cover story’ is. Lone gunman, etc. Be skeptical.

agree with all that’s been said about the sickening barrage of media coverage on its way. If they could devote an entire solid 10 days to f*****g Imus….

I don’t know if anyone may find some comfort in these words, but I offer them humbly because they have helped me to survive to see yet another day and eventually to even welcome its coming.

We are beings of light residing in our human bodies for only a brief time. We will rejoin the ones whom we have loved, but never really lost.

Whether what I have written is true is unimportant because we would be living in the mythical garden of eden if all of us honored each other as immortal gods in the making.

Why is truth so difficult to grasp?

Peace everlasting be with each of you and all of us, forever.

LS @ 60

To read about what the FBI found in the Columbine investigation, go here:

http://foia.fbi.gov/room.htm

Then go to A-Z, find Columbine, and read on. There is/was a group called Trench Coat something, that was behind the Columbine shootings. There is a dialog in the documents between a student and a member of that group from a website that the FBI got a hold of, and in it, the group member says there are going to be a lot more events like Columbine and worse. Very interesting read. Obviously, we don’t know if this is connected or not yet. That Trench Coat group is neo-nazi in origin. I don’t know if they still exist or not.

The Trenchcoat Mafia was NOT involved in the Columbine shootings — that was what the Goth kids at Columbine were called.

Columbine was the work of two very disturbed young men, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold — one (or both) of them had gone off their SSRI prescription days before the shootings.

Wikipedia on the Columbine massacre and an excerpt from the Harris and Klebold entry:

According to early accounts of the shooting, Harris and Klebold were unpopular outsiders and frequent targets of bullying at their high school. Some later investigation claims, however, that the notion they were unpopular and outsiders was largely a myth, although the idea had become ingrained in popular accounts. Regardless, they and their group of friends and/or people they knew had often been the target of bullying at Columbine, a fact that has been agreed upon by most investigators to have been the root of their anger. They were also said to have been part of a group who called themselves the Trenchcoat Mafia, although they had no particular connection with the group, and did not appear in a group photo of the Trenchcoat Mafia in the 1998 Columbine yearbook.

I’m wondering when they’ll start blaming Marilyn Manson, even though he hasn’t done s**t in years. How about Slipknot? Maybe they’ll do as a substitute. And instead of D&D (sooooo 80s), how about Yugi OH or Magic: The Gathering or Halo or Metroid Prime?

Loo Hoo @ 72

lolo @ 47

Terry Olson @ 30

Tragedy. Just awful. Will the families ever recover?

are you peeking in from work?

Shhh!

ok but say YooHoo to LooHoo, please!

Mandrake @
69

I personally do not see anything wrong with drawing a parallel between this and Iraq. We opened the horrific Pandora’s box of killing in Iraq over 4 years ago. Yet until it such horrors visit their own doorstep, so many Americans still just don’t seem to care.

I think the main thing to remember is that things like this happen in Iraq every fucking day. For us, thank the Lord, it’s a rarity; for them, this is the norm.

This is what we have done to their country. No repentance can possibly suffice.

ck 88,

I refer you to the FBI…go read what they learned.

Faux News: At least 32 dead.

“Bush will exploit it”

Well it will fuel gun control fires and goopers usually benefit in the long run from that- but I don’t see how he can directly exploit it.

ck 88. The TCM is/was not limited to students at Columbine according to the material I read in the FBI files.

despairing @ 74

Over the weekend the NYT had a distressing piece on compensation to families of killed Iraqis. Something like $2,000 per corpse or life, depending on your point of view? Wonder what the price of these lives will turn out to be? My guess is whoever is found negligent will provide more than $2,000 per death. But then, other countries don’t value life the way we do.

I doubt that Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, the neocons, and their enablers place any value on the 3,300 dead American soldiers.

rwcole @ 94

“Bush will exploit it”

Well it will fuel gun control fires and goopers usually benefit in the long run from that- but I don’t see how he can directly exploit it.

Give him a little time to discuss this with God and I’m sure he’ll find a hook for it that fits politically.

Goopers would PAY to have demonstrations about gun control right now- that would bring in BIG NRA campaign contributions at a very important time.

White House spokesman said President Bush was horrified by the rampage and offered his prayers to the victims and the people of Virginia.

“The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed,” spokeswoman Dana Perino said.

Please impeach him now.

Badwater @ 81

Mandrake @ 77

And, oh god, Bush will exploit it too. I’m already feeling nauseous.

I’m sorry, this is horrible. By no means do I mean to diminish the tragedy of it all. But we all know the media vultures are already circling and it just makes me sick to my stomach to think about all the exploitation ahead.

Newt used to exploit these things to blame Democrats. Will he now?

Dunno but I’m guessing that Dinesh D’Souza guy will take a stab at it.

I wonder about this asian male report. There is a photo of cops with an asian male on the ground but he is cuffed and alive. Someone may have seen that and made an assumption.

Montag-

Well some goopers are probably hopin that the shooter was an illegal alien- but clusterfuck may not want to fight that one.

rwcole @ 94

“Bush will exploit it”

Well it will fuel gun control fires and goopers usually benefit in the long run from that- but I don’t see how he can directly exploit it.

Just an excuse for him to give some kind of statement and deflect the public’s attention away from the Abu scandal.

Can someone please get D’Souza and Romesh Powar decent jobs, they are embarrassments to all us brown people.

raven @ 214

One of the survivors said the shooter didn’t look angry, upset, nothing at all as he shot.

Just great. Nice to know that your life is being threatened by someone who’s already transported half his consciousness into the Happy Killing Zone. Then again, a lot of people probably couln’t do something like this if they were still plugged into the Here and Now.

Mandrake:

Now THAT he WILL do.

Petrocelli @ 104

Can someone please get D’Souza and Romesh Powar decent jobs, they are embarrassments to all us brown people.

That would mean they would have to work for a living. No way would they tolerate that. Wingnut welfare isn’t called that for no reason.

raven @ 101

I wonder about this asian male report. There is a photo of cops with an asian male on the ground but he is cuffed and alive. Someone may have seen that and made an assumption.

They just said that there are tons of international students at VA Tech. It is a huge campus. What is strange are the reports of bomb threats and other incidents happening there as well.

Petrocelli @
73

To all those affected by this tragedy:-
Cover your heart with both hands and you will feel lots of love coming to you. Be strong, crying can be very cleansing, but let love fill your heart and you will have the strength to overcome any tragedy.
In Michael Moore’s Fahrenheit 9/11, he showed that Canadians have more guns per capita, yet our rate of gun- related violence is a pittance compared to the U.S.
One of the casualties of Bush’s illegal wars is that resources were diverted from reducing gun- violence and all other crimes. That and MORE children being left behind, which leads them to crime and violence.
Banning guns or giving everyone a gun will not solve violence, teaching people how to co- exist and respect others as we do in Canada (and Western Europe) is the only answer.
Love To All

Thank you, Petrocelli. I lived in Canada for quite a while in Toronto & Montreal, most peaceful yrs. of my life. God bless Canadians for their kind, generous, courteous attitude toward others.

God’s help to all affected by this tragedy @ Virginia Tech.

Badwater @ 99

White House spokesman said President Bush was horrified by the rampage and offered his prayers to the victims and the people of Virginia.

“The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed,” spokeswoman Dana Perino said.

Please impeach him now.

As I said earlier on the Abramoff thread, when is enough really enough. At some point, doesn’t the Congress have to start impeachment proceedings?

raven @ 101

I wonder about this asian male report. There is a photo of cops with an asian male on the ground but he is cuffed and alive. Someone may have seen that and made an assumption.

Could you direct me to a link of that photo? Much appreciated.

LBrowne @ 105

raven @ 101

I wonder about this asian male report. There is a photo of cops with an asian male on the ground but he is cuffed and alive. Someone may have seen that and made an assumption.

OTOH, if true, could be a grad student going postal??

Fuax says the asian dude in the photo was one of their reporters and released. This doesn’t mean the reports were not true but I think we go some fog of war going on.

raven @
52

You know, soon after I came home from Vietnam I got into an argument with my mother when I said that the Manson murders and My Lai were the same kind of thing. I suppose that’s the point people are trying to make with these statements about Iraq and Va Tech.

Please elaborate, Raven. You believed Manson & My Lai were ??? (The result of a scarring of the public psyche of sorts due to Vietnam, etc.???)

Just trying to understand what you’re saying here. I personally believe we (humanity) go through a debasement of self in times like these. A “Lord of the Flies” effect, if you will.

sunny @ 111

raven @ 101

I wonder about this asian male report. There is a photo of cops with an asian male on the ground but he is cuffed and alive. Someone may have seen that and made an assumption.

Could you direct me to a link of that photo? Much appreciated.

I’m sseing it on the tube, sorry.

Badwater @ 99

White House spokesman said President Bush was horrified by the rampage and offered his prayers to the victims and the people of Virginia.

“The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed,” spokeswoman Dana Perino said.

Please impeach him now.

The man is incapable of being horrified by the killing of innocent human beings regardless of where it happens, unless it involved immediate family. Maybe. I do not believe he has normal human feelings. It seems a travesty to even issue such statements of feigned horror. I guess this is where the revulsion comes in.

I play Wii games with my kids and after every match, they show the winner smiling and happy with the words, “You Win” across his face and the loser dejected and head bowed with “You Lose” across his face. What a powerful subliminal message this sends to kids.

Part of the WH statement on this:

“The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed,” Perino said, noting that Bush and Education Secretary Margaret Spellings held a conference on school gun violence in October.

“Certainly, bringing a gun into a school dormitory and shooting … is against the law and something someone should be held accountable for,” Perino said.

It sounds wishywashy. (JMO.) I’d like to see a bit more outrage and sorrow.

29 dead? This is bigger than Columbine.

Speaking of Charles Manson…

My son told me today that his girlfriend’s sister is married to Charles Manson’s son. Was it wrong of me to get a little freaked out about that?

LBrowne @ 105

raven @ 101

I wonder about this asian male report. There is a photo of cops with an asian male on the ground but he is cuffed and alive. Someone may have seen that and made an assumption.

OTOH, if true, could be a grad student going postal?? The age would fit…

Are all grad students asian? Are no undergrads? Do only asians go postal? Please drop this stereotype.

leslie @
49

CNN or MSNBC – don’t know which was on, reported the shooter had killed his mother and his wife last night.

What a sad, sad day for everyone.

Haven’t read all the comments yet, so someone may have mentioned already, but I think that reference is about the Univ of Texas shootings in 1966. Until today that shooting had the most casualties. This violent tragedy makes it the worst in US history.

Having dealt with too much death in my own circle, my heart goes out to the families and friends of all involved.

Zee @ 121

leslie @
49

CNN or MSNBC – don’t know which was on, reported the shooter had killed his mother and his wife last night.

What a sad, sad day for everyone.

Haven’t read all the comments yet, so someone may have mentioned already, but I think that reference is about the Univ of Texas shootings in 1966. Until today that shooting had the most casualties. This violent tragedy makes it the worst in US history.

Having dealt with too much death in my own circle, my heart goes out to the families and friends of all involved.

Charles Whitman.

Marie Roget @ 109

Petrocelli @
73

To all those affected by this tragedy:-
Cover your heart with both hands and you will feel lots of love coming to you. Be strong, crying can be very cleansing, but let love fill your heart and you will have the strength to overcome any tragedy.
In Michael Moore’s Fahrenheit 9/11, he showed that Canadians have more guns per capita, yet our rate of gun- related violence is a pittance compared to the U.S.
One of the casualties of Bush’s illegal wars is that resources were diverted from reducing gun- violence and all other crimes. That and MORE children being left behind, which leads them to crime and violence.
Banning guns or giving everyone a gun will not solve violence, teaching people how to co- exist and respect others as we do in Canada (and Western Europe) is the only answer.
Love To All

Thank you, Petrocelli. I lived in Canada for quite a while in Toronto & Montreal, most peaceful yrs. of my life. God bless Canadians for their kind, generous, courteous attitude toward others.

God’s help to all affected by this tragedy @ Virginia Tech.

Sadly, McGill has also had a similar tragedy. And having visited Montreal last year, I can say that they haven’t learnt anything from it. There is a growing rift amongst students of all races and this will sadly lead to more violence in the future. It is up to us, to do what we can to spread harmony and upliftment to others.

Seems it’s all bad news all the time anymore from just about everwhere. Perhaps our prez can dust off the old bullhorn like he did for 9/11 and the klieg lights for Katrina and reassure us. Maybe Mr. Bush can take along Rudy, McCain and the president of the NRA. I own guns, but we really need to tighten up on our gun laws. And put some teeth into the ones we already have. I just fail to see the need for ownership of semi-automatic weapons. Another awful day in violence strewn America.

We are now going to have a stupid fucking “bigger than Columbine” scorekeeping.

montag @ 107

Petrocelli @ 104

Can someone please get D’Souza and Romesh Powar decent jobs, they are embarrassments to all us brown people.

That would mean they would have to work for a living. No way would they tolerate that. Wingnut welfare isn’t called that for no reason.

These are two cases where I really wish their parents had forced them to become Doctors.

P J Evans @ 117

Part of the WH statement on this:

“The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed,” Perino said, noting that Bush and Education Secretary Margaret Spellings held a conference on school gun violence in October.

“Certainly, bringing a gun into a school dormitory and shooting … is against the law and something someone should be held accountable for,” Perino said.

It sounds wishywashy. (JMO.) I’d like to see a bit more outrage and sorrow.

These people have no feelings. They are the living dead. There are only opportunities to be taken advantage of to deliver the message de jour.

I feel like saying to Perino, “Thanks for pointing out the obvious, Sherlock.”

I think, I’ll throw-up.

CBS now has up 30 dead at VT. I think that we will need to wait till later in the day to get the true scope of this tradegy.

I was afraid someone would come up with the Asian-American grad student stereotype going postal. Not so long ago, maybe three-four years, an Asian-American Ph.D student who was defending his dissertation (I forget which university) shot and killed one of his advisers during his defense, when he thought the defense wasn’t going so well.

Badwater @ 81 says:

Newt used to exploit these things to blame Democrats. Will he now?

Don’t know; one thing you can be sure of, somebody somewhere will use this to make the case for concealed-carry, full auto legalization, etc..

Petrocelli @ 126

These are two cases where I really wish their parents had forced them to become Doctors.

Between the two of them, we’d probably be looking at a bigger death toll than today’s. Some people aren’t competent at anything….

Mandrake @ 115

Badwater @ 99

White House spokesman said President Bush was horrified by the rampage and offered his prayers to the victims and the people of Virginia.

“The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed,” spokeswoman Dana Perino said.

Please impeach him now.

The man is incapable of being horrified by the killing of innocent human beings regardless of where it happens, unless it involved immediate family. Maybe. I do not believe he has normal human feelings. It seems a travesty to even issue such statements of feigned horror. I guess this is where the revulsion comes in.

To see him playing to his base at this kind of news is utterly predictable, but still utterly repellent.

Biodun @ 129

I was afraid someone would come up the Asian-American grad student stereotype going postal. Not so long ago, maybe three-four years, an Asian-American Ph.D student who was defending his dissertation (I forget which university) shot and killed one of his advisers during his defense, when he thought the defense wasn’t going so well.

I think the incident that you are referring to happened at the on-campus hospital at the University of Washington in Seattle.

IIRC, Newtie blamed liberals and Woody Allen for Columbine

montag @
131

Petrocelli @ 126

These are two cases where I really wish their parents had forced them to become Doctors.

Between the two of them, we’d probably be looking at a bigger death toll than today’s. Some people aren’t competent at anything….

Their egos would force them to be good doctors. Egos can be good, sometimes.

“The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed”

Wow, among bush’s first comments on the shooting at Virginia Tech is that Americans should have the right to bear arms. What tragedy, the events at Virginia Tech, and that we have an insensitive dolt at the helm of this formerly great country who can’t let anything go by without an appeal to his base.

raven @ 125

We are now going to have a stupid fucking “bigger than Columbine” scorekeeping.

Somewhere, Katie Couric is salivating.

This story reaks of a staged event… the headlines are totally coded as a staged event…

… Any time the phrase “at least” is preceeded before an injured or death count, it’s code (like graffitti is gang code) as a false flag/black op operation…

Here’s the proof:
http://frogsinhotwater.blogspot.com/

Yes, I’ll bet people died, but these shootings are always timed as distractions… and readers of Firedoglake know we’re about to have Gonzales in front of Congress shortly.

Pretty interesting, eh?

My boyfriend was at UF when that serial killer struck a few years ago. He said that the subsequent mass exodus of students leaving the school saved his academic career (made him able to get into classes that he needed, etc…).

Petrocelli @ 135

Their egos would force them to be good doctors. Egos can be good, sometimes.

Umm, just like Bush’s ego has compelled him to be the best President ever….

Bush with bullhorn linkie.

Petrocelli @ 135

montag @
131

Petrocelli @ 126

These are two cases where I really wish their parents had forced them to become Doctors.
———–

Between the two of them, we’d probably be looking at a bigger death toll than today’s. Some people aren’t competent at anything….

Their egos would force them to be good doctors. Egos can be good, sometimes.

Probably off topic, but don’t forget that at least 90,000 people die every year in our nation’s hospitals due to medical negligence.

Oops, sorry about the above…I was trying to respond to the poster who questioned why the students didn’t all want to leave campus after this event, but I didn’t do the quoting right I guess.

Freedom @ 138

This story reaks of a staged event… the headlines are totally coded as a staged event…

… Any time the phrase “at least” is preceeded before an injured or death count, it’s code (like graffitti is gang code) as a false flag/black op operation…

Here’s the proof:
http://frogsinhotwater.blogspot.com/

Yes, I’ll bet people died, but these shootings are always timed as distractions… and readers of Firedoglake know we’re about to have Gonzales in front of Congress shortly.

Pretty interesting, eh?

Timed by who?

Iowa Democrat @
136

“The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed”

Wow, among bush’s first comments on the shooting at Virginia Tech is that Americans should have the right to bear arms. What tragedy, the events at Virginia Tech, and that we have an insensitive dolt at the helm of this formerly great country who can’t let anything go by without an appeal to his base.

Absolutely tasteless and disgraceful that at this time of great tragedy, the president has to appeal to the right-to-bear-arms crowd.

Freedom @ 138

This story reaks of a staged event… the headlines are totally coded as a staged event…

… Any time the phrase “at least” is preceeded before an injured or death count, it’s code (like graffitti is gang code) as a false flag/black op operation…

Here’s the proof:
http://frogsinhotwater.blogspot.com/

Yes, I’ll bet people died, but these shootings are always timed as distractions… and readers of Firedoglake know we’re about to have Gonzales in front of Congress shortly.

Pretty interesting, eh?

Sorry…but I cannot follow to where you have gone.

Makes me want to go check my kid out of school just to hug him.

How do we protect our children from such senseless violence? I haven’t a clue.

This song is the first thing I thought of when I heard – and I can’t get it out of my head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N3N1MlvVc4

montag @
140

Petrocelli @ 135

Their egos would force them to be good doctors. Egos can be good, sometimes.

Umm, just like Bush’s ego has compelled him to be the best President ever….

Bush is the best President ever, just ask all those who have made millions and billions because of him.

dreamcatcher @ 145

Iowa Democrat @
136

“The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed”

Wow, among bush’s first comments on the shooting at Virginia Tech is that Americans should have the right to bear arms. What tragedy, the events at Virginia Tech, and that we have an insensitive dolt at the helm of this formerly great country who can’t let anything go by without an appeal to his base.

Absolutely tasteless and disgraceful that at this time of great tragedy, the president has to appeal to the right-to-bear-arms crowd.

Seriously, I wouldn’t expect better from him.

One of the kids who got shot said the shooter was asian, I’m not sure anyone really knows if he was asian-american, for what that is worth.

This is terribly sad. These types of things happen so often now, and it is senseless.

When I woke up this morning to my clock radio, the local news reader was talking about how a suburban school district had to close four schools today due to bomb threats they received last night. The police noted that the anniversary of the Columbine High School tragedy was close.

I also remembered reading recently that the most common time for bomb threats and killing sprees at schools tends to be in the springtime. Why is that? The stress of the end of the schoolyear? (That’s a rhetorical question – I realize there is no way to make sense of something so senseless).

I can’t imagine going to school and being worried about violence. I never even considered that school could be the scene of any type of physical threat to me until I went to college, and then the only worry was of muggers or rapists. I just made sure to always walk with at least one other person at night. Otherwise, I never put a moment’s thought to violence at school.

When I talk with highschool and college kids now, fear of violent, unexpected crime is something they live with. They always have a sense that something bad could and may happen to them at school. How incredibly sad.

My heart goes out to the families of those affected by this horrible situation. I pray we don’t have any copycats.

OT: DKos Presidential straw poll up now.

LJ/Aquaria @ 35

And I do know a few things about clips/magazines. I did have to pass that shooting part of the military.

Yes, you were just directly quoting the student, who used the term “magazines.” I got what you were saying, myself. What we find out about this killer I’m dreading. We’ll find out this could have been prevented, or that there was NO way of knowing. The coverage will stop being to alert loved ones. It will become the latest horrible thing to keep us afraid. And will we learn anything substantive about how to stop it, I wonder. Watch them cover the coverage. All I want is a bio of the poor people murdered, and a profile and analysis of the killer, possible solutions, then no more.

But they will make it about the story and package it with scary music and sounds of the gunfire. Punch it up to the audience. No tv for me, thank you.

And Bush in the home stretch.

EPU’d and edited, with new emphasis..

This VA tragedy, like Columbine, only underscores the need to make sure the crazies aren’t the gun toters.

Should there be a law where members of any community could come together and determine who really shouldn’t have guns?

Maybe we have spent too much time worrying about who “should” have guns and not enough worrying about who “shouldn’t” have guns.

As a former hunting guide and outfitter, (who no longer hunts,) I can attest to both characters, and unfortunately, the “gun nuts” tended to be “nuts” in general, the very kind of people whose neighbors typically would not trust to own one gun, let alone an arsenal, if they had a say in it.

Those who use guns as a recreational tool, or as a collectible investment, are not the ones I would be concerned with, it is the ones who own mini-arsenals and weapons that they could never use for anything but this type of destruction.

Serious outfitters tend to refer to these rogues as “the AK47 crowd.”

And those outfitters are not very happy when shooters show up for a hunt with a weapon of war, instead of bona fide hunting arms.

These “gunheads” tend to expose themselves quite openly, fondling their weapons like sex toys. I do not exaggerate to be funny, this is not snark, it is an absolute fact. Some people worship weapons just like a teenybopper might treat a pop-idol or rock-star.

Unfortunately, so often, people who knew “the shooter” in these tragedies would never have suggested they should own a gun, but also never had the opportunity to suggest, to any official authority involved in vetting gun owners, who “shouldn’t” have guns.

If enough people in a community fear that an individual is too unstable to own a gun, there should be some measures they can take to make sure their public safety matters more than that unstable person’s right to bear firearms.

Again, I’m not talking about some blanket prohibition, I say let the village vote, or have some say, about just who owns the handguns in their territory.

I suggest that if you want to own a gun, your neighbors, family and friends should have a say in that decision.

WSLS TV in Roanoke is reporting that FOX is saying there are 32 dead. Has anyone else reported this. I’m listening to the live-stream of the local broadcast.

Horrible. Just horrible.

And to add insult to this terrible situation, the friends, family & fellow students of the deceased won’t have the room necessary to grieve because of the media onslaught that’s on the way.

I’m fully aware this is a huge story, but it always bothers me when someone shoves a camera in the face of an emotionally shaken person in the interest of “our right to know.”

Let these people have the space necessary to pull their lives back together after facing such tragedy.

I thought the UW thing was a woman getting shot by a stalker, despite all her attempts to get him out of her hair. Had a restraining order and all that.

to Zee and raven ~
thanks for the update. I was trying to listen to this report and attend to my current major allergy attack. I must have missed them making the comparison.

A national day of mourning would seem appropriate. :( :(
RIP, promising young lives…

montag @ 140

Petrocelli @ 135

Their egos would force them to be good doctors. Egos can be good, sometimes.

Umm, just like Bush’s ego has compelled him to be the best President ever….

They’d wash out from med school, if they ever got in. Ego or no ego.

P J Evans @ 117:

“The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms…”

me @ 130:

one thing you can be sure of, somebody somewhere will use this to make the case for concealed-carry, full auto legalization, etc..

Honest to gawd, I was talking about months or years from now, and coming from Freeperstyle nut jobs.

Never, ever in my wildest dreams, would I have expected it from the Whitehouse, at the very moment I was typing #130.

gotta bail out; gotta stifle the puke reflex.

regarding photos of an asian man who was arrested (he’s on the ground, alive and cuffed), CNN reported that police initially thought he was the shooter, but later realized he was NOT.

I imagine there will be a lot of speculation, rumors, and unclear information coming out. We would be wise to be wary of a lot of information being “reported” by unofficial people on-campus. Officials from the university and/or police will provide more concrete information, once all the details are determined.

tinfoil warning:

Wonder is any VT people were slated to be ‘impartial arbiters’ tech for RNC servers.

Have to ask, these days.

Daily Kos diarist on campus reports on the chaos.

This could not be a staged event. Only the impulse of the media to report and report and report on a tragedy — and this is truly a tragedy, with perhaps as many as 30 innocent students dead.

Because our media likes to report on tragedies (they do seem to draw readers and viewers, which is the media’s intention), that news then functions as a distraction but it would be silly to assume that such a distraction occurred for a political purpose.

Causes might include our disintegrated mental health system and the availability of guns. But highly highly unlikely to be the ‘plan’ of some politico who wants to take the attention off of Gonzales and the White House lawyers scandals.

RE: oilfieldguy’s observation.

With all due respect, I doubt that the administration is behind the shootings at Virginia Tech.

Fox news is stating that Federal Officials are indicating that 32 were killed and 4 remain in critical condition among the injured. Fox also indicating that Federal Authorities have indicated this incident is the worst shooting in the history of the united states. Normally not a fox viewer but was doing the news station crawl over lunch.

“that news then functions as a distraction but it would be silly to assume that such a distraction occurred for a political purpose.”

At least on the mortal plane…

Look what Larry Johnson writes.
http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/

I am just so sad. Im sad most every day.

When I was working at a college, we had an incident of a woman being terrorized by a former boyfriend. She had enough and, um…ran him over on the campus. My boss was the one who had to deal with removing her from school. It was a nightmare.

Mason @ 166

RE: oilfieldguy’s observation.

With all due respect, I doubt that the administration is behind the shootings at Virginia Tech.

I never implied they were.

with that inmind, they should postpone Gonzo’s testimony, and instead have a national hour of prayer and meditation…

LJ/Aquaria @ 158

I thought the UW thing was a woman getting shot by a stalker, despite all her attempts to get him out of her hair. Had a restraining order and all that.

I think you’re referring to the wife of the police chief for the City of Tacoma. Although he had abused her in the past, her domestic violence complaints were ignored, and when she filed for divorce, he killed her and killed himself.

FYI:

AP has a list of deadly campus shootings at US colleges and universities here.

Note: a few are by grad students. Not drawing any conclusions, but stress comes to mind.

Wonder if Bush and the cabal is hoping the perp was an Iraqi, or better yet an Iranian. We are the most heavily armed nation on Earth. Be it guns in the home, our cars, our pockets, our backpacks, on the battleships, jets, or in the silos. To what end? To kill people. Almost always people who don’t deserve to die.

MS @
165

Daily Kos diarist on campus reports on the chaos.

This could not be a staged event. Only the impulse of the media to report and report and report on a tragedy — and this is truly a tragedy, with perhaps as many as 30 innocent students dead.

Because our media likes to report on tragedies (they do seem to draw readers and viewers, which is the media’s intention), that news then functions as a distraction but it would be silly to assume that such a distraction occurred for a political purpose.

Causes might include our disintegrated mental health system and the availability of guns. But highly highly unlikely to be the ‘plan’ of some politico who wants to take the attention off of Gonzales and the White House lawyers scandals.

This purportedly “on campus” report alleges there might have been two shooters. Also says that the one known shooter was “American” by which I suppose they meant “Caucasian.”

It will be a while before this is all sorted out.

And yes, there is a connection between this and Iraq, and that connection is the American obsession with violence as a means of settling accounts. Our president and vice-president are the personifications of this national ethos.

Mason @ 166

RE: oilfieldguy’s observation.

With all due respect, I doubt that the administration is behind the shootings at Virginia Tech.

Sorry, I misunderstood. Please accept my apology.

snowbird42 @ 169

Look what Larry Johnson writes.
http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/

I am just so sad. Im sad most every day.

Yes, his blog reflects the sentiment behind my comment @ 69.

All in all, we have more than our share of guns, testoterone and anger in this country. One way or another, one or more of those contributing factors is going to have to come down, or we’ll continue to see this sort of thing happen.

And yes, there is a connection between this and Iraq, and that connection is the American obsession with violence as a means of settling accounts. Our president and vice-president are the personifications of this national ethos.

sadly correct

Gunga Djinn @ 130

Badwater @ 81 says:

Newt used to exploit these things to blame Democrats. Will he now?

Don’t know; one thing you can be sure of, somebody somewhere will use this to make the case for concealed-carry, full auto legalization, etc..

Virginia allows unlicensed open carry of a handgun that has a capacity of twenty rounds or less, unthreaded barrel and no collapsible stock. (Most handguns fall under this category). Open carry is defined as the gun’s true nature is not hidden from general view.

Virginia CHPs are shall issue. For a shall-issue gun law, authorities (usually a state agency; sometimes the local police) are required to issue a concealed carry permit to any individual who requests it if he meets the state’s issuance criteria, usually consisting of submitting fingerprints, submitting paperwork for a background check, attending a certified handgun/firearms safety class, participating in a range check before a certified trainer (for demonstrating safe firearms handling, while shooting at a target with a handgun), and paying the required fee (if any). These requirements vary by state; for example Georgia has no safety certification requirement or range check.

Apparently, such laws do little to prevent these tragedies.

JEP @
172

with that inmind, they should postpone Gonzo’s testimony, and instead have a national hour of prayer and meditation…

I humbly disagree, they should have a moment of silence and then continue with the hearing. One way of overcoming violence is not to give such importance to those committing it, like stopping Congress.

Just a quick stop in to wish comfort and solace to those affected by this sad loss of life, and hope and peace to all.

Work for peace, every day.

Well, I’ve got to finish and file my tax returns.

I doubt that even one cent of the money that I’ve paid in taxes has gone to support any socially worthwhile purpose.

Mason @ 173

LJ/Aquaria @ 158

I thought the UW thing was a woman getting shot by a stalker, despite all her attempts to get him out of her hair. Had a restraining order and all that.

I think you’re referring to the wife of the police chief for the City of Tacoma. Although he had abused her in the past, her domestic violence complaints were ignored, and when she filed for divorce, he killed her and killed himself.

Hm… Pretty sure it was someone at UW…

Just looked it up. It was someone working at UW Seattle, who had filed restraining orders that couldn’t be served.

Oilfieldguy @
146

Freedom @ 138

This story reaks of a staged event… the headlines are totally coded as a staged event…

… Any time the phrase “at least” is preceeded before an injured or death count, it’s code (like graffitti is gang code) as a false flag/black op operation…

Here’s the proof:
http://frogsinhotwater.blogspot.com/

Yes, I’ll bet people died, but these shootings are always timed as distractions… and readers of Firedoglake know we’re about to have Gonzales in front of Congress shortly.

Pretty interesting, eh?

Sorry…but I cannot follow to where you have gone.

It is complex, but once you understand how the news works, it’s easy.

Whenever there is a staged event (like this), the media lets the “criminals” know the mission was successful by adding the phrase, “At least” in the headline.

For example:
At least 19 killed in shooting
At least 13 killed in tornado
At least 19 killed in Iraq bombing

And on and on… seriously… whip out your newspaper and look for the phrase “at least.” — the AP (Associated Press) codes their headlines with “at least” all of the time.

Of course, the newspapers can defend this by saying they’re not sure of the count… but when you look on websites from over 27 years ago, you’ll still see the headlines with “at least xxx killed”.

This is insider’s code… again, the proof is here:
http://frogsinhotwater.blogspot.com/

Now if you want me to tell you who is controlling this, I have ideas, but I’m not 100% sure. All I know is the corporate news pounced on this with all kinds of coding like I’ve never seen before… and the Gonzales news is nonexistant — how convenient.

By the way, I live near the Amish school shootings… and literally 3 hours after the first shots rang out, the big newspaper in our area had written the story, proofed it, included a photograph of the shooter (with his name), printed the paper, bundled it, boxed it, and delivered it to our neighborhood subscribes. I was in the publishing business and there’s no way this could happen in less than 3 hours… meaning the newspaper had advanced warning of this staged shooting.

Did people die? I believe so, but we’ve been lied to so often, I must question everything… and recommend the same for you.

Ask questions about this story — it doesn’t sound legit.

Oy. e-mailing with the little bro right now, who is a Tech grad and still lives in Blacksburg. He says the whole town is basically locked down. They had another shooting recently, and he can’t believe they’ve got another one. It doesn’t sound like the police are taking any chances and have just closed things down until they know it’s secure.

Some comments about the comments above:

–I don’t see how you can fault campus security here. It’s a public school, after all. And even if it were private, you can’t expect them to strip search everyone who comes onto campus. So far, I haven’t seen anything to suggest that they did anything negligent here.

–”The right to bear arms” is a REALLY stupid thing to talk about in a White House press conference right now. What the hell was she thinking?

–It is notoriously easy to buy guns in Virginia. I have no idea how or where the shooter got his guns and ammo, so it’s a bit premature to talk about Virginia’s gun laws, but you’re going to hear a lot about just how easy it is to buy a firearm in that state.

RE: the asian man on the ground

ABC

got to the photos and scroll through.

Our country condones more violence across the world than all others..is it any wonder that we, with a 600 plus billion dollar a yr. military budget (not counting war spending or interest on the borrowed part of that massive amount of money) and the worlds largest arms dealer..are a nation with more rampant violence than any other civilized nation… I don’t think so.

My first thought upon hearing the news… How awful! I hope the shooter/s were not mentally disturbed war vets..or foreigners.

So much tragedy in a place where more good is possible than anything else…it’s all just so sad.

I am employed at one university and have a son attending another. I feel not only sad. I feel scared, vulnerable and helpless. The utter senseless of this act shocks me beyond words.

In view of this latest domestic horror, do we think our politicians will stop accepting money from the gun lobbyists? Perhaps Cheney can lead us on this issue.

Death toll now at 31..MSNBC

Bush to make public statement at 4:15 eastern re VaTech shootings

President is going to make an on-camera statement at 4:15 ET.

proof is here:
http://frogsinhotwater.blogspot.com/

twolf and I must be watching CNN together ;)

Cozumel @ 192

Death toll now at 31..MSNBC

at least

twolf1 @ 193

Bush to make public statement at 4:15 eastern re VaTech shootings

Guess that shout-out to the base via Perino didn’t satisfy the Washington press corps. So, we’ll get some quick shots of crocodile tears for the six o’clock news….

“Bush to make public statement at 4:15 eastern re VaTech shootings.”

The last thing we need is for this asshole to politically exploit yet another tragedy.

Mason >

LJ/Aquaria @ 158

I thought the UW thing was a woman getting shot by a stalker, despite all her attempts to get him out of her hair. Had a restraining order and all that.

I think you’re referring to the wife of the police chief for the City of Tacoma. Although he had abused her in the past, her domestic violence complaints were ignored, and when she filed for divorce, he killed her and killed himself.

Three separate incidents

The police chief that shot his wife was several years ago

The grad student that shot a professor at the UWa Med School was also several years ago

The woman that was shot by ex-boyfriend was a few weeks ago.

Yea, I know, hard to keep all the looney (no offense meant to Canadian coins) behavior in the correct order.

*sigh*

“Those who make peaceful change impossible make violent change inevitable” – John F. Kennedy

raven @
188

RE: the asian man on the ground

ABC

got to the photos and scroll through.

OMG, tell every Asian to lock himself up for a few days. After 9/ll, they kept showing photos of “bad men with turbans” and many Sikhs were killed and wounded by idiots who did not know A) They are not the same as Al Qaeda and B) If they were, they would not be roaming loose without weapons in American cities.

I really hate to mention this because the situation at Virginia Tech is tragic beyond the ability of words to describe, and I hate guns, but I’m not convinced that we the people won’t need them to defend ourselves and our democracy against this criminal administration when or if Bush decides that we firepups, for example, are terrists [sic] because we disagree with him. He does have the power to do that, you know.

montag @ 198

twolf1 @ 193

Bush to make public statement at 4:15 eastern re VaTech shootings

Guess that shout-out to the base via Perino didn’t satisfy the Washington press corps. So, we’ll get some quick shots of crocodile tears for the six o’clock news….

I’m sure Bush will find a way to emphasize own his claim to religious convictions

Raven, Freedom —

You can take about any number in the teens and twenties, plug it into google (as in “‘at least 15′ killed”), and come up with any number of stories.

sonate @ 199

“Bush to make public statement at 4:15 eastern re VaTech shootings.”

The last thing we need is for this asshole to politically exploit yet another tragedy.

Maybe he can get in a shot at the “Democrat Party” and Harry Reid, while he’s at it.

Peterr @ 204

Raven, Freedom —

You can take about any number in the teens and twenties, plug it into google (as in “‘at least 15′ killed”), and come up with any number of stories.

I was being snarky.

daCascadian @ 200

Mason >

LJ/Aquaria @ 158

I thought the UW thing was a woman getting shot by a stalker, despite all her attempts to get him out of her hair. Had a restraining order and all that.

I think you’re referring to the wife of the police chief for the City of Tacoma. Although he had abused her in the past, her domestic violence complaints were ignored, and when she filed for divorce, he killed her and killed himself.

Three separate incidents

The police chief that shot his wife was several years ago

The grad student that shot a professor at the UWa Med School was also several years ago

The woman that was shot by ex-boyfriend was a few weeks ago.

Yea, I know, hard to keep all the looney (no offense meant to Canadian coins) behavior in the correct order.

*sigh*

“Those who make peaceful change impossible make violent change inevitable” – John F. Kennedy

Thanks for the info. It’s reassuring to know how reasonable everyone is in Seattle and Tacoma, isn’t it?

New thread.

Vic Wulsin Challenging Mean Jean Again

yeah Clusterfuck can pray in public and say that he won’t let em take our guns away- should be good for a few approval points from he base- and some gooper campaign contributions for those candidates who have been lifelong hunters.

Mason @ 202

I really hate to mention this because the situation at Virginia Tech is tragic beyond the ability of words to describe, and I hate guns, but I’m not convinced that we the people won’t need them to defend ourselves and our democracy against this criminal administration when or if Bush decides that we firepups, for example, are terrists [sic] because we disagree with him. He does have the power to do that, you know.

Thanks, for saying it.

As for postponing the Gonzales hearing, Petrocelli at 182, I meant for just one day…

But I agree, this should not stay us from our appointed rounds… just thought it would be a very public venue, to focus the nation on one mutual prayer.

Regardless of who you believe hears your prayers, we should all have the same prayer; ask God to forgive us for our violent culture, to assuage the grief that the families and loved-ones will suffer, and to protect us from our worst, war-loving demons. And above all, to take each of these precious souls and give them peace, in a much better world than the one they were so violently taken from today.

If I had a gun, I’m pretty certain that I’d kill my TV at 4:15 pm.

Thank God, that I also don’t have a TV.

rwcole @ 209

yeah Clusterfuck can pray in public and say that he won’t let em take our guns away- should be good for a few approval points from he base- and some gooper campaign contributions for those candidates who have been lifelong hunters.

Ask him if he prayed to get Gonzo off the main news cycle.

One of the survivors said the shooter didn’t look angry, upset, nothing at all as he shot.

Mason >

Thanks for the info. It’s reassuring to know how reasonable everyone is in Seattle and Tacoma, isn’t it?

[snark]

It`s all those cloudy days I tell you, it`s the clouds and all that rain.

“I did it because of the rain.”

[/snark]

“The mind is its own place,
and in itself can make a heaven of hell,
and a hell of heaven.” – John Milton

raven

Sorry about that. (shoulda known . . .)

Freedom and Raven,

That is WILD!!!!!!!

I’d like to see the media EMAILs!!!

Peterr @ 216

raven

Sorry about that. (shoulda known . . .)

I’m trying to follow the guidlines.

I don’t want to hear a damned thing Bush or Cheney or anyone else in that bunch has to say about this. I don’t want to hear why we should or should not have guns, or any of the “if only” comments, and I sure as hell don’t want to see up-close-and-personal the agony of the families and friends who lost people today.

My tv’s off for the day. I’m going outside.

1,487 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..

Citizen Hardin Smith and the Firepup Patriots:

It seems to me that the terrible tragedy of Iraq is coming home to us here…given our ability to disarticulate ourselves personally and politically from moral responsibility for the wars we have let loose on ourselves and others, especially in Iraq, it seems to me that we can give some meaning to this horrible event if we see it in the larger context of death and destruction loose in our time including Iraq.

I am not calling for any mass confession of quilt or for knee jerk outbursts of anger, I am calling for us to reflect on the deaths of these students (and maybe faculty) as part of a larger threat to our existence on this planet. I am an old man grown older than my years with two daughters on college campuses, a son who is teaching in a large metropolitan high school and three beautiful granddaughters. There must be an end to this madness…there must be a point at which we as feeling human beings can recognize our common humanity and our common fate. The war in Iraq, the killing of kids at Virginia Tech – it’s all blurred thru my tears.

And anyone who can’t see the need for the elimination of the psychology of violence thru the control of weapons in mass society should be sent immediately to the emergency room of the local hospital in Virginia and then spend a week at Walter Reed…

KEEP THE FAITH BUT DO SOMETHING, GOD MUST BE RUNNIN’ OUTTA PATIENCE!!!

more tinfoil -

The newly elected Sen. from VA. One of his aides had a weird handgun incident a couple weeks ago.

My friend who educated me on ‘conspiracy theory’ would call that a ’soft hit’. Reports of bomb scares on campus of late would be candidates for that category as well. (…and I’ve never visited ‘boilingfrog.blogspot’ site.)

Folks are terrotized. And rightly so. Just be skeptical.
—–
Evidence shows (at least) that warnigs about 9/11 were ignored. Remember that.

Mason, no problem. I was merely pointing out the way the Gingrich and Christianist revolution feigned moral outrage in protection of the children by pounding the sins of Big Dawg. By the logic that America’s children will automatically behave in the same fashion as the President, as many of them have stated is the case, and if this was true in the previous administraion, is it not true today?

What is the single most defining issue of this Presidency? A pre-emptive war/invasion/occupation of a country that was not a threat, did not attack us, was not involved with 9/11, had no weapons of mass destruction and did not harbor terrorists.

IN other words, sex between consenting adults has the potential of turning Americas youth into sexual deviants–since the President is setting this example. Are these same people going to be outraged for turning Americas youth into “pre-emptive strikers” by following the Bush Doctrine? If not, why not?

Notice I never mentioned shooterfaceguy’s ability to “sleep it off” before even talking to the cops. I am showing restraint.

Frank Probst @ 187:

–”The right to bear arms” is a REALLY stupid thing to talk about in a White House press conference right now. What the hell was she thinking?

It’s really mind boggling. It’s like the WH is playing a 24/7 game of one-upmanship, trying to peg the Idiotmeter.

I was still trying to digest our codpiece-wearing CIC calling for a War Czar. Now we get a WH opening statement on Right to Bear Arms before the bodies are cold & counted.

Words no longer suffice.

raven @ 188

RE: the asian man on the ground

ABC

got to the photos and scroll through.

OK, if that is the shooter, what the hell happened to him? Why is he dead? He is obviously subdued.

Just read a comment on another site which states that the Asian guy is a local reporter who got a little pushy with police.

Gee, a former NYC terror task force guuy says that investigators will find out if the killer was part of any organization or conspiracy, I hope they are loggin in the lake for some really great leads!

I suggest that if you want to own a gun, your neighbors, family and friends should have a say in that decision.

I think this kind of community sanction makes sense. But then it would only work in a real community, where people know their neighbors.

Where I live, most people do own guns. And I can think of one or two that I wish did not.

raven @ 214

One of the survivors said the shooter didn’t look angry, upset, nothing at all as he shot.

I know this is EPU at this point, but that is not a ‘good sign’…that’s Manchurian.

Okay, for those of you who doubt the “at least” coding… look at this:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3045574

Headline: At least 29 people are dead in what may be the biggest mass shooting in modern American history — and the death toll may rise.

I could go on and on… unfortunatately.

This is staged. We need to ask questions.

JEP @
211

As for postponing the Gonzales hearing, Petrocelli at 182, I meant for just one day…

But I agree, this should not stay us from our appointed rounds… just thought it would be a very public venue, to focus the nation on one mutual prayer.

Regardless of who you believe hears your prayers, we should all have the same prayer; ask God to forgive us for our violent culture, to assuage the grief that the families and loved-ones will suffer, and to protect us from our worst, war-loving demons. And above all, to take each of these precious souls and give them peace, in a much better world than the one they were so violently taken from today.

I believe that the outrage should be directed to those in Congress who shirked their duties to make our society safer. We all must do a better job of spreading harmony and peace but Congress has to make the laws that protect the peace, not simply pray that GOD does so.
See my post @ 73 for a way to heal the wound of this tragedy and all others. It is a small but important part of recovery – first heal thyself.

anyone else having trouble with comments? I tried to reply to someone’s comment and ended up editing over a previous remark I’d made. How in the hell did that happen? Agreed about the Manchurian thing.

KestrelBrighteyes @ 219

I don’t want to hear a damned thing Bush or Cheney or anyone else in that bunch has to say about this. I don’t want to hear why we should or should not have guns, or any of the “if only” comments, and I sure as hell don’t want to see up-close-and-personal the agony of the families and friends who lost people today.

My tv’s off for the day. I’m going outside.

This is a tough one for the pro-gun crowd. VA makes it about as easy for anyone to get and carry guns as it can be. The only further step would be to require citizens to carry guns. VA is like an NRA experiment. Maybe the experiment’s failing.

dreamcatcher @ 145

Iowa Democrat @
136

“The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed”

Wow, among bush’s first comments on the shooting at Virginia Tech is that Americans should have the right to bear arms. What tragedy, the events at Virginia Tech, and that we have an insensitive dolt at the helm of this formerly great country who can’t let anything go by without an appeal to his base.

Absolutely tasteless and disgraceful that at this time of great tragedy, the president has to appeal to the right-to-bear-arms crowd.

My Sentiments exactly! I guess during a national tragedy that he can exploit, Bush will play up the consitution to rally his base. Too bad he does not value the Constitution any other time.

sunny @ 224

raven @ 188

RE: the asian man on the ground

ABC

got to the photos and scroll through.

OK, if that is the shooter, what the hell happened to him? Why is he dead? He is obviously subdued.

Just read a comment on another site which states that the Asian guy is a local reporter who got a little pushy with police.

I posted it becuase someone asked earlier, my point was that this guy couldn’t be the shooter becuase he was alive. I thought this might have been why the shooter was described as asian but first hand reports from students who survived were that he was asian.

raven @ 225

Gee, a former NYC terror task force guuy says that investigators will find out if the killer was part of any organization or conspiracy, I hope they are loggin in the lake for some really great leads!

Warren Commission is a good reference, for starters.

One more thing… when I searched Google for the phrase, “at least” was used at the ABCNews.com site, it displays — get this.. over 50,000 stories!

Search Google using this advanced syntax:
site:abcnews.go.com “at least”

Wow!

Petrocelli @ 126

Petrocelli @ 104

Can someone please get D’Souza and Romesh Powar decent jobs, they are embarrassments to all us brown people.

These are two cases where I really wish their parents had forced them to become Doctors.

I’m really glad their parents didn’t.

The people who graduate with an MD they never really cared about don’t care much about their patients, either.

I’m thinking about Bush wearing a codpiece and a cape as he emerges from one of those Marine helicopters with the propellers that shift on the wings so that it can fly vertically and horizontally, not at the same time however, although it seems to be especially fond of crashing. Landing on campus to assure us that he not only cares, he’s in charge.

Sorry.

kirk murphy @
236

Petrocelli @ 126
Petrocelli @ 104
Can someone please get D’Souza and Romesh Powar decent jobs, they are embarrassments to all us brown people.
———–
These are two cases where I really wish their parents had forced them to become Doctors.
———–

I’m really glad their parents didn’t.

The people who graduate with an MD they never really cared about don’t care much about their patients, either.

It was just a snark that had they been some other profession, we would not be suffering their delusions in the MSM. Their ramblings would be limited to private functions.

The talk above of Gonzales reminded me of the statement he made a week or so ago.

When he said that he planned to continue his important work of “protecting our children”.

Do you remember that photo-op?

I do.

Mason @ 237

I’m thinking about Bush wearing a codpiece and a cape as he emerges from one of those Marine helicopters with the propellers that shift on the wings so that it can fly vertically and horizontally, not at the same time however, although it seems to be especially fond of crashing. Landing on campus to assure us that he not only cares, he’s in charge.

Sorry.

That’s the V-22 Osprey. The Secret Service would veto that idea faster than Bush dresses in his codpiece.

For the record:

I’m agnostic at this point. This could very well be just what it seems. However, I’ve learned to be highly skeptical. I lean toward dark forces perps until the pieces prove otherwise.

(For instance, this ‘asian’ – alive, but suspiciously retaianed – is a link that should be looked closely at. WHO IS HE, EXACTLY?)
Healthily skeptical.

—-
PS – what DoJ ‘priorities’ has Gonzo been road-tripping for lately? I believe gun violence is among them. Certainly gang related violence. Look at a few USA websites. See how often gun violations are being prosecuted.

Tonight on BBC in about five minutes there is a programme examining anti-Americanism. Don’t know what it’ll say.

But I just thought that I would share with you that for us Brits who know and love America, especially Blue America, today reminds us how we feel.

My thoughts are with all the grieving ralatives. It is too terrible to contemplate how they must be feeling.

Blank Kludge @ 241

For the record:

I’m agnostic at this point. This could very well be just what it seems. However, I’ve learned to be highly skeptical. I lean toward dark forces perps until the pieces prove otherwise.

(For instance, this ‘asian’ – alive, but suspiciously retaianed – is a link that should be looked closely at. WHO IS HE, EXACTLY?)
Healthily skeptical.

He was a reporter who Foz said worked for them. They said he was “too vigorous” in his seeking of information so they checked hime out and let him go.

Gunga Djinn @ 239

The talk above of Gonzales reminded me of the statement he made a week or so ago.

When he said that he planned to continue his important work of “protecting our children”.

Do you remember that photo-op?

I do.

He planned to protect them from porno, not from violence. He is, after all, a Republic.

I am listening to the MSM “ask questions” about locking down the campus, how the campus security might have done better, or different, etc. Not that I think the questioning is wrong.
I just think that if they can ask questions about this kind of incident, why can’t they ask questions about Bush and his criminal administration?

raven @ 243

Blank Kludge @ 241

For the record:

I’m agnostic at this point. This could very well be just what it seems. However, I’ve learned to be highly skeptical. I lean toward dark forces perps until the pieces prove otherwise.

(For instance, this ‘asian’ – alive, but suspiciously retaianed – is a link that should be looked closely at. WHO IS HE, EXACTLY?)
Healthily skeptical.

He was a reporter who Foz said worked for them. They said he was “too vigorous” in his seeking of information so they checked hime out and let him go.

Why did they have to beat him up first (i.e., that would be “subdue”)?

raven @ 243

Blank Kludge @ 241

For the record:

I’m agnostic at this point. This could very well be just what it seems. However, I’ve learned to be highly skeptical. I lean toward dark forces perps until the pieces prove otherwise.

(For instance, this ‘asian’ – alive, but suspiciously retaianed – is a link that should be looked closely at. WHO IS HE, EXACTLY?)
Healthily skeptical.

He was a reporter who Foz said worked for them. They said he was “too vigorous” in his seeking of information so they checked hime out and let him go.

I do not trust that source. (Not to mention a FOX reporter is as good a cover as you would want for a ’second’ gunman.)

The seven tramps caught and released in Dealey Plaza. Hide in plain sight.

leslie @ 245

I am listening to the MSM “ask questions” about locking down the campus, how the campus security might have done better, or different, etc. Not that I think the questioning is wrong.
I just think that if they can ask questions about this kind of incident, why can’t they ask questions about Bush and his criminal administration?

It’s too big a risk. Ask those questions and you are permanently banned from jobs at Fox.

Because of a high level of mistrust, I can’t help wondering if this will somehow play into ABU’s testimony tomorrow. Wasn’t one of the “Performance” indicators cited, Gun convictions?

Now they are saying he had a 22 and a 9mm. On the live video there does seem to be a difference in the report of the shots. It also may explain how some of the folks you see on the footage are walking out under their own power. If you get shot with a 22 you stand a better chance than if you get hit with a 9mm/

Why did they have to beat him up first (i.e., that would be “subdue”)?

I think if you were a police officer in that kind of situation you might not think cuffing someone was an over-reaction.

My father was killed by a 9mm. I was shot at by one. I am much faster than my father.

Oilfieldguy @ 252

My father was killed by a 9mm. I was shot at by one. I am much faster than my father.

Damn

Keep in mind, this is a president who attends no funerals of fallen GI’s coming back from Iraq.

Oilfieldguy @ 252

My father was killed by a 9mm. I was shot at by one. I am much faster than my father.

You are now.
(My dad’s dad passed from a heart attack. My dad lasted longer, but it was the ticker did him in. I have some similar problems, but not serious. Please take the above as ‘black humor’.)

Oklahoma kiddo @ 254

Keep in mind, this is a president who attends no funerals of fallen GI’s coming back from Iraq.

Why is that acceptable to Republics?

TeddySanFran @ 6

Can we please have some respect for the victims and their families? Let’s have the Second Amendment debate another day, please.

My view of the 2nd amendment can be described as apathetic resignation, but this comment exhibits the same logic as the people who decry the 9-11 widows for being “political activists”. If you want to talk about the 2nd amendment, today is precisely the day to do it. Politics have consequences.

Here’s the msnbc link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18134671/

Describes two incidents involving one shooter “described as a young Asian man wearing a maroon cap and a black leather jacket.”

First incident occurred at 7:15 am “at West Ambler Johnston, a co-ed residence hall that houses 895 people.”

The second incident occurred two hours later on the other side of the 2,600 acre campus at “Norris Hall, an engineering building.”

The campus was reportedly locked down during the interim and the shooter reportedly chained the doors shut at the engineering building.

The article mentions students jumping out windows.

Death toll now at 31, including the shooter.

Blank Kludge @ 255

Oilfieldguy @ 252

My father was killed by a 9mm. I was shot at by one. I am much faster than my father.

You are now.
(My dad’s dad passed from a heart attack. My dad lasted longer, but it was the ticker did him in. I have some similar problems, but not serious. Please take the above as ‘black humor’.)

My dad had a round that was fired by a Japanese plane attacking his ship. It hit the bulhead right above his head and spun on the deck. He always thought that was the one that had his “name on in”. He let me take it to show and tell in 3rd grade and I lost it!

Black leather and maroon cap. Missing for two hours bt incidents?

I don’t like it.

raven @ 259

Blank Kludge @ 255

Oilfieldguy @ 252

My father was killed by a 9mm. I was shot at by one. I am much faster than my father.

You are now.
(My dad’s dad passed from a heart attack. My dad lasted longer, but it was the ticker did him in. I have some similar problems, but not serious. Please take the above as ‘black humor’.)

My dad had a round that was fired by a Japanese plane attacking his ship. It hit the bulhead right above his head and spun on the deck. He always thought that was the one that had his “name on in”. He let me take it to show and tell in 3rd grade and I lost it!

ziggy stardust…

Guess it didn’t have YOUR name on it…

Police also said there is no evidence that the two shootings at opposite ends of campus were related.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266374,00.html

Guess it didn’t have YOUR name on it…

His shoe did if you know what I’m sayin!

Blank Kludge @ 260

Black leather and maroon cap. Missing for two hours bt incidents?

I don’t like it.

I don’t either. After shooting a bunch of people in a dorm, how does this dude get across a locked down campus carrying weapons and ammo???????

sunny @ 262

Police also said there is no evidence that the two shootings at opposite ends of campus were related.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266374,00.html

Fox…the new Warren Commission.

sunny @ 262

Police also said there is no evidence that the two shootings at opposite ends of campus were related.

fox link

WTF? Was it “bring a gun to school” day at VA Tech?!? Hard to believe that the incidents would be unrelated.

Mason @ 264

Blank Kludge @ 260

Black leather and maroon cap. Missing for two hours bt incidents?

I don’t like it.

I don’t either. After shooting a bunch of people in a dorm, how does this dude get across a locked down campus carrying weapons and ammo???????

Steam tunnels?? That’s the only way it could have been done at my alma mater. Even at that, I would have thought the police would have found a shooter in that amount of time. Still, the aftermath of a shooting must be incredible hell.

Blank Kludge @ 265

sunny @ 262

Police also said there is no evidence that the two shootings at opposite ends of campus were related.

fox link

Fox…the new Warren Commission.

What are the chances that two people who didn’t know each other decided to go on shooting rampages the same day?

Have any of the brilliant minds at Fox thought to ask this question?

Mason @ 264

Blank Kludge @ 260

Black leather and maroon cap. Missing for two hours bt incidents?

I don’t like it.

I don’t either. After shooting a bunch of people in a dorm, how does this dude get across a locked down campus carrying weapons and ammo???????

If he had the vest on under a jacket it wouldn’t be that hard.

31 shot and killed

17 being treated for injuries, many in critical condition.

I wouldn’t want to leave the FBI out of the picture. Catch this, which also is from the msnbc link:

“FBI spokesman Richard Kolko in Washington said there was no immediate evidence to suggest it was a terrorist attack, “but all avenues will be explored.”

I don’t either. After shooting a bunch of people in a dorm, how does this dude get across a locked down campus carrying weapons and ammo???????

It wasn’t locked down until after shots fired at the second location (I believe.)

raven @ 269

Mason @ 264

Blank Kludge @ 260
Black leather and maroon cap. Missing for two hours bt incidents?

I don’t like it.
————

I don’t either. After shooting a bunch of people in a dorm, how does this dude get across a locked down campus carrying weapons and ammo???????

If he had the vest on under a jacket it wouldn’t be that hard.

But wouldn’t the cops be checking ever person walking on campus? There shouldn’t have been very many if the campus was locked down as it reportedly was.

THere’s no evidence to indicate they were NOT related. In fact, just the opposite, at this point. Forensics and witnesses from both incidents will tell the tale. Unless Arlen takes the helm.

just sayin’…

Mason @ 271

I wouldn’t want to leave the FBI out of the picture. Catch this, which also is from the msnbc link:

“FBI spokesman Richard Kolko in Washington said there was no immediate evidence to suggest it was a terrorist attack, “but all avenues will be explored.”

I suppose Special Agent Kolko is, at this very moment, driving up and down Pennsylvania Avenue searching for clues.

Graduation for VT is 3 weeks away. That’s going to a hard one for them.

noen @ 272

I don’t either. After shooting a bunch of people in a dorm, how does this dude get across a locked down campus carrying weapons and ammo???????

It wasn’t locked down until after shots fired at the second location (I believe.)

According to a student quoted in the msnbc article, the campus was placed on lockdown at 8 am following the shootings in the dorm. The shootings in the engineering building two hours later happened after the lockdown was lifted.

Something obviously is amiss.

32 dead

28 wounded

And there have been on going bomb threats for a couple of weeks before this incident. No indication if they are related. Thanks for the correction Mason

Badwater @ 244:

He planned to protect them from porno, not from violence. He is, after all, a Republic.

Oh yeah. I forgot. My vision is still a bit blurred from that glimpse of Janet Jackson’s nipple that I didn’t see.

Bush is going to say something. I just hope he doesn’t manage to insult everyone.

The White House says Bush is “horrified”.

noen @ 281

Bush is going to say something. I just hope he doesn’t manage to insult everyone.

Recycle of oldie and not too goodie:

Q. How do you know when George W. Bush is saying something that will manage to insult everyone?

A. Check and see if his lips are moving.

Yeah, well, this is one time when I wish him to just do ok.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 282

The White House says Bush is “horrified”.

Paraphrasing Kurtz, then? (Heart of Darkness/Apocolypse Now)

“The horror! The horror!”

From the LA Times:

The incident began shortly after 7:15 a.m. EDT at the 2,600-acre campus, about 250 miles southwest of Washington D.C. The gunman entered a dormitory, West Ambler Johnston, and shot several people, police said.

While authorities responded to the 911 emergency call, the gunman crossed the half-mile to the other side of the campus to the Norris building, where he shot many more, said authorities, who could not explain the apparent lull between the shootings.

The shootings at Norris began about 9am, so there’s maybe ninety minutes to be accounted for, and probably no way to do it, with the guy dead. No ID yet on him.

Mason @
271

“FBI spokesman Richard Kolko in Washington said there was no immediate evidence to suggest it was a terrorist attack, “but all avenues will be explored.”

It was most certainly a terrorist attack. Terrorism is a tactic, not a nationality. This was, by definition, terrorism.

Just got this, via the Edwards Campaign:

Due to the tragic campus shootings at Virginia Tech today, the event this afternoon at the Ryman Auditorium (in Nashville, Tennessee) has been cancelled. Instead, Senator Edwards will be holding a community service to honor the victims.

Doors will still open at 3:30pm.

We would like to use this time to come together and send our thoughts and prayers to the students and families of Virginia Tech.

John and Elizabeth sent the following message earlier today:

“We are simply heartbroken by the deaths and injuries suffered at Virginia Tech. We know what an unspeakable, life-changing moment this is for these families and how, in this moment, it is hard to feel anything but overwhelming grief, much less the love and support around you. But the love and support is there. We pray that these families, these students, and the entire Virginia Tech community know that they are being embraced by a nation. There is a Methodist hymn that gave us solace in such a moment as this, and we repeat its final verse here, in hopes it will help these families, as it helped us:

‘In our end is our beginning; in our time, infinity; In our doubt there is believing, in our life, eternity, In our death, a resurrection; at the last, a victory, Unrevealed until its season, something God alone can see.’

“Our dearest wish is that this day could start again, with the promise of these young people alive. Knowing that cannot be, our prayer is for God’s grace and whatever measure of peace can be reached on this terrible day.”

SkepticRising @ 287

Mason @
271

“FBI spokesman Richard Kolko in Washington said there was no immediate evidence to suggest it was a terrorist attack, “but all avenues will be explored.”

It was most certainly a terrorist attack. Terrorism is a tactic, not a nationality. This was, by definition, terrorism.

All mass murderers are terrorists by definition I think. But they aren’t usually politically motivated. It’s an important difference.

This is what I just posted to my journal- I think afew of you noticed this but I was able to get the pics due to my cache:

I checked MSNBC after lunch like I always do and saw they were reporting this tragedy down @ VT, and then the one forum i post to said FOX NEWS! was saying 32 dead- MSNBC was only saying 22, so I checked FOX NEWS! for confirmation
http://img.photobucket.com/alb…..ure402.jpg
2:38PM

and then(I had a conference call and checked again) someone said on the forum all FOX NEWS! Cnn and MSNBC were reporting 31- which means according to FOX NEWS! the number had dropped, so i quickly backed up my firefox cache and checked their site again in IE
http://img.photobucket.com/alb…..oting7.jpg
4:12PM

They are having trouble identifying the shooter.

Here is the Perino statement again:

“As far as policy, the President believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed. And certainly bringing a gun into a school dormitory and shooting — I don’t want to say numbers because I know that they’re still trying to figure out many people were wounded and possibly killed, but obviously that would be against the law and something that someone should be held accountable for.”

What’s so amazing about this is that their first impulse is to reassure their base that they are not against students bringing guns to class, per se. It’s about concealed weapons laws: http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..145940/196

The VT police screwed this up bigtime…

First someone killed two students in a dorm.
The police didn’t find the shooter and ASSUMED he had left the campus and that things were under control.

Meanwhile, a shooter shot about 50 people at the other end of the campus while the police were “investigating” the first crime scene…

Way to go.

They are creaming the Va Tech Admins and Chief of Police on this presser.

Rather than spinning out conspiracy theories, my guess would be the shooter was looking for someone specific, didn’t find them in the dorm, then went over to the other building. Does sound like someone screwed up the police response.

It is profoundly disgusting to see partisan activists shrieking about Iraq and gun control, taking advantage of the pain of the victims and their families.

I am a grad of VaTech and remember the place fondly.

I think what we need right now is “a decent interval”—let some time pass for people to collect themselves, gather some perspective, absorb the loss. This is not something we need to view through a partisan lens, but if that is to be done, let it wait.

Badwater @ 43

Sadly, Virginia makes it easy to have guns:
Under Virginia code Virginia Statute 15.2-915 localities may no longer regulate the firearms with sole exception of regulation of discharge of firearms.

Everywhere except on the VT campus where it is forbidden for students and staff to carry concealed.

I don’t know about the rest of you, but I appreciate the prayer offered by John and Elizabeth Edwards. I’d like to offer a heartfelt Amen.

Read an analysis of the influences in our “Chain Letter Society” that may be precipitating events like the tragedy at Virginia Tech and how our focus on winning and being number one may be fostering a generation of children with fully inadequate coping skills who have a misguided sense of self-worth…here:

http://www.thoughttheater.com

I keep seeing this same story over and over and over again. It’s like groundhog day. Only the numbers of killed and wounded change.

Charles Whitman at the University of Texas

Columbine

The Amish Kids

The whole Branch Davidian debacle was about guns. And on and on and on. I’ve heard (but not seen) that the NRA released a statement essentially saying: “If all those people had been armed they wouldn’t be dead.”

Huh?

Very simply ingrediants of guns and population is a recipe for death. You only need one or two crazies to create tragedy. And now we have a very heavily armed, well paid and well trained private right wing army in North Carolina – Blackwater.

These guys aren’t like survivalist militias in Idaho. These guys have anti-personel weapons and government contracts. Sorry, didn’t mean to rant. My grandfather’s buried next to one of Charles Whitman’s victims in Texarkana.

Well, it’s after 8 pm EDT and no one has identified the shooter. What the hell is going on?

How can no one know who this person was or have some idea why he did it?

Apparently, there was no massive police response until after the shooter committed suicide. Why?

Why did the cops who responded to the shooting deaths of two people at the dorm assume that it was a domestic violence type of situation and that the shooter had left campus? Did someone see him leave?

I’m amazed at the lack of information.

Shocked beyond words, really.

Meanwhile, 58 people died in Iraq today.

The world is going to hell in a handbasket.

Well, before we trash the cops for what they did or didn’t do, it’s the Blackburg, VA PD, not CSI.

And I honestly don’t know how any police organization could anticipate something like this. The only identification is that it’s a Chinese National here on a student visa.

Maybe we need to be taking a closer look at student visas.

Mason @
177

Mason @ 166

RE: oilfieldguy’s observation.

With all due respect, I doubt that the administration is behind the shootings at Virginia Tech.

Sorry, I misunderstood. Please accept my apology.

I don’t think ANY of us can overlook the fact that, we live in times where it IS possible, the government HAS been behind these kinds of things, and most likely will be, again.

I mean, I grew up on books, in the 50’s and 60’s . . . ‘84, Animal Farm, all the Sci-Fi . . . and here we are, with MANY things, as described in those books with respect to power and control of the masses, and the methods and practices USED to achieve that power and control. Consolidaiton of wealth, a mass indebted to survive, so as to remain voiceless on the job to pay that debt.

It’s all there. Anything is possible, until proven NOT.

At this time, however, best to lower our heads, open our hearts, to those who have passed, those who are wounded, and all their families and friends.

I like the notion of a day of healing instead of Gonzo going to hearing.

Bless all the lost souls, then, now, and to be.

In a day or so, it will be time to continue the reclaimation of our nation. I hope it’s possible.

Petrocelli @
182

JEP @
172

with that inmind, they should postpone Gonzo’s testimony, and instead have a national hour of prayer and meditation…

I humbly disagree, they should have a moment of silence and then continue with the hearing. One way of overcoming violence is not to give such importance to those committing it, like stopping Congress.

Hoss, you just changed MY mind. Yep, should proceed. Or the bad guys win, every time. No matter WHO the bad guys are.

Good call, thanks for the whack up the side the head.

Mason @ 302

Well, it’s after 8 pm EDT and no one has identified the shooter. What the hell is going on?

How can no one know who this person was or have some idea why he did it?

Apparently, there was no massive police response until after the shooter committed suicide. Why?

Why did the cops who responded to the shooting deaths of two people at the dorm assume that it was a domestic violence type of situation and that the shooter had left campus? Did someone see him leave?

I’m amazed at the lack of information.

Shocked beyond words, really.

Shooter kills two and wounds for the first act.
Somehow, cops say, ‘domestic dispute’?
So, they KNOW who shooter is, at this point, right?

Now, failure to lock down, and cancel classes. FAILURE TO CANCEL CLASSES FOR THE DAY!!! (lawsuits galore, and well deserved_

Shooter, with full vest of clips, and two hand guns, takes two hours to get from dorm, to Eng. Classroom.

Knows HOW to barricade doors from inside!!! ??? How he know this?

Shooting rampage, alleged suicide of shooter, for some reason, a bullet thru the mouth and out the back of brain render shooter UNIDENTIFIABLE, despite DOMESTIC ISSUE, and his potential pursuit of the domestic issue to a classroom, a SPECIFIC CLASSROOM?

Who are the people involved in the domestic thing, and why aren’t they named?

Who was/were the first on the scene of alleged suicide’s body, and what did THEY conceivably do to it, to render it unidentifiable?

This is phreaky wierd BEYOND a general clusterphuck mode . . . .

There’s just no way that shooter is not identified at this time. Coverup’s abound already, enough of them to be STUPID, and some most certainly well laid . . . enough to thoroughly muddy these waters.

So, if you DO buy into a conspiracy, and cover up, and maybe TWO shooters . . HOW AND WHY AND WHO!

Trust no one.
Question everything.

We have historical evidence thruout time for doing so.

Veritas78 @
5

It’s an awful tragedy that shouldn’t happen to anyone, but it happens 2-3 times a day in Iraq.

Amen. my thoughts exactly. Not to deny how horrible it is, but just to remember the horror we –and all involved — are inflicting on Iraquis daily. This brings home the fact that each killing is mourned by families who feel the same pain American parents, lovers and children feel when they lose their cherished children.

Is it that the shooter has not been identified, or just that his name hasn’t been released yet, possibly pending notification of family?

re: Gonzales hearing – Even if it WAS going to be on tomorrow, I couldn’t watch it. It seems to have lost its priority for a day or so, with me at least.

I may not turn on the tv at all tomorrow, and I know I won’t watch the news – the 24/7 bombardment of images when something like this happens is just too much to bear and, IMHO, increases trauma to the friends and families. They need time to begin healing.

My teenage son and I had a talk tonight about what happened at VA Tech. This kind of violence doesn’t seem to surprise his generation, it’s like they just expect something like this will happen occasionally – and that’s sad.

Death makes me crave life, and my gardens are my temple. I need to spend the day planting flowers and walking by the creek in the company of my dog. I’ll catch up with y’all in a day or so. Peace…

noen @
289

SkepticRising @ 287

Mason @
271

“FBI spokesman Richard Kolko in Washington said there was no immediate evidence to suggest it was a terrorist attack, “but all avenues will be explored.”

It was most certainly a terrorist attack. Terrorism is a tactic, not a nationality. This was, by definition, terrorism.

All mass murderers are terrorists by definition I think. But they aren’t usually politically motivated. It’s an important difference.

Granted.

After hearing this (summation):

A 19-yr old Asian student wearing a “boy scout-like” (in other words, military-style) uniform, wearing a black military ammo vest, took two handguns, killed a couple of people in a dorm. Then, he took TWO HOURS to get the other side of campus and shoot many more people, supposedly without emotion, before taking his own life.

My first thought was, oddly, “Was this kid a student at Blackwater? Did he have a psychological breakdown?” It’s not like these kids are getting a standard military-grade of training. Who the hell knows if these kids come out qualified? Or if they go in mentally qualified, for that matter?

I’m sure it’s utterly off-base, and as I said, that was just my first, utterly speculative thought. But, when they disclosed the information of where it occurred, my mind immediately made the connection, “Blackwater is headquartered in Virginia and has a new base close by, in North Carolina.”

What a horrible tragedy, regardless. :(

I can imagine the intense hours anyone even remotely connected to the school has been having all day, wondering if the person or people they know are OK, injured, or one of the unfortunate fatalities. Not knowing leaves one’s mind open to the terrible possibilities, spiraling ever more out of control, until knowledge, true knowledge, ends such poisonous speculation. Such vile, yet uncontrollable thought processes as that which we imagine to be true are, to me, one of the most draining and dark moments one experiences in life.

I feel for all going through such pain themselves, and to all of the families and friends in mourning.

I feel for all of the good and honorable people in Iraq, and elsewhere around the world, who must live with such tragedy on a daily basis.

I feel for all of humanity, for our future rests in the hands of our young, and in the hands of those who teach, in whatever capacity they do so. Today, part of our future was ripped from us, and we can never get it back.

I have hope, however fleeting, that tomorrow will be better.