Comments on: Of Threats And Deletions And A Hefty Helping Of Hubris http://firedoglake.com/2007/04/13/of-threats-and-deletions-and-a-hefty-helping-of-hubris/ Firedoglake weblog Wed, 25 Nov 2009 02:08:06 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: none http://firedoglake.com/2007/04/13/of-threats-and-deletions-and-a-hefty-helping-of-hubris/#comment-622695 none Sat, 14 Apr 2007 06:27:42 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/04/13/of-threats-and-deletions-and-a-hefty-helping-of-hubris/#comment-622695 <p>Care and courtesy? I thought the customary level of care and courtesy when a criminal defendant attempts shit like this was to send in a SWAT team to seize the hard drives. Where are those forensics techs and why aren’t they on this yet?</p> Care and courtesy? I thought the customary level of care and courtesy when a criminal defendant attempts shit like this was to send in a SWAT team to seize the hard drives. Where are those forensics techs and why aren’t they on this yet?

]]> By: goober http://firedoglake.com/2007/04/13/of-threats-and-deletions-and-a-hefty-helping-of-hubris/#comment-621955 goober Fri, 13 Apr 2007 23:56:23 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/04/13/of-threats-and-deletions-and-a-hefty-helping-of-hubris/#comment-621955 <p>I’m not a lawyer, but my understanding of 18 USC 1519 is that it’s a new section added by the Sarbanes-Oxley Act of 2002, and it’s about preservation of archives, not about obstruction of justice.</p> <p>(Section 1512 might apply, too, but 1512 requires proof of criminal intent, and I’m pretty sure that 1519 doesn’t require criminal intent.)</p> <p>If 1519 does apply to the Presidential Records Act, that would make a prosecutor’s work easier, and Mr. Fielding’s work considerably trickier, as compared to o-o-j.</p> <p>Regardless of prosecutorial action or inaction, today’s news reminds me of newspaper editorials like this : </p><blockquote> THE NEW YORK TIMES<br /> January 21, 1996<br /> Mrs. Clinton’s defenders have taken up a cry of “Where’s the crime?” in an effort to end all inquiries. The fact is that no one can determine whether or not there has been a crime based on the inconclusive and sometimes contradictory information and testimony provided so far. Whether or not there has been criminal behavior, the public has a right to expect clear, complete and convincing answers to reasonable questions about the First Family’s finances and professional conduct. So far, this White House has not provided such answers. </blockquote> I’m not a lawyer, but my understanding of 18 USC 1519 is that it’s a new section added by the Sarbanes-Oxley Act of 2002, and it’s about preservation of archives, not about obstruction of justice.

(Section 1512 might apply, too, but 1512 requires proof of criminal intent, and I’m pretty sure that 1519 doesn’t require criminal intent.)

If 1519 does apply to the Presidential Records Act, that would make a prosecutor’s work easier, and Mr. Fielding’s work considerably trickier, as compared to o-o-j.

Regardless of prosecutorial action or inaction, today’s news reminds me of newspaper editorials like this :

THE NEW YORK TIMES
January 21, 1996
Mrs. Clinton’s defenders have taken up a cry of “Where’s the crime?” in an effort to end all inquiries. The fact is that no one can determine whether or not there has been a crime based on the inconclusive and sometimes contradictory information and testimony provided so far. Whether or not there has been criminal behavior, the public has a right to expect clear, complete and convincing answers to reasonable questions about the First Family’s finances and professional conduct. So far, this White House has not provided such answers.

]]> By: david http://firedoglake.com/2007/04/13/of-threats-and-deletions-and-a-hefty-helping-of-hubris/#comment-621651 david Fri, 13 Apr 2007 20:50:29 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/04/13/of-threats-and-deletions-and-a-hefty-helping-of-hubris/#comment-621651 <p>This is apropos of nothing, but I have to say that Sen. Leahy’s expression these days reminds me of that of Santa Claus in the animated 1960’s classic “Rudolph the Rednose Reindeer”, particularly the part where Santa is trying to figure out what to do about the Island of Misfit Toys.</p> This is apropos of nothing, but I have to say that Sen. Leahy’s expression these days reminds me of that of Santa Claus in the animated 1960’s classic “Rudolph the Rednose Reindeer”, particularly the part where Santa is trying to figure out what to do about the Island of Misfit Toys.

]]> By: Think Progress » Rove’s Lawyer Acknowledges ‘Gap’ In Emails Missing From White House Archives http://firedoglake.com/2007/04/13/of-threats-and-deletions-and-a-hefty-helping-of-hubris/#comment-621641 Think Progress » Rove’s Lawyer Acknowledges ‘Gap’ In Emails Missing From White House Archives Fri, 13 Apr 2007 20:46:32 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/04/13/of-threats-and-deletions-and-a-hefty-helping-of-hubris/#comment-621641 <p>[…] UPDATE: Christy Hardin Smith has a statement from Patrick Fitzgerald’s spokesman: I had e-mailed Patrick Fitzgerald’s spokesperson last night to see if he had any comment on Mr. Rove’s alleged deletion of e-mails from the RNC server during the time that the investigation would have been ongoing. I just got a response from Randall Samborn that, indeed, the office was aware of the reporting on this matter, that he had received not only my questions but a number of others from news organizations, but that he would be “declining comment (of course) to questions about this matter.” […]</p> […] UPDATE: Christy Hardin Smith has a statement from Patrick Fitzgerald’s spokesman: I had e-mailed Patrick Fitzgerald’s spokesperson last night to see if he had any comment on Mr. Rove’s alleged deletion of e-mails from the RNC server during the time that the investigation would have been ongoing. I just got a response from Randall Samborn that, indeed, the office was aware of the reporting on this matter, that he had received not only my questions but a number of others from news organizations, but that he would be “declining comment (of course) to questions about this matter.” […]

]]> By: Bob Schacht http://firedoglake.com/2007/04/13/of-threats-and-deletions-and-a-hefty-helping-of-hubris/#comment-621490 Bob Schacht Fri, 13 Apr 2007 19:56:28 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/04/13/of-threats-and-deletions-and-a-hefty-helping-of-hubris/#comment-621490 <p><a href="#comment-621202"><em>Dumbwya @<br /> 218 </em></a></p> <blockquote><p>Good piece. One lawyer’s take: </p> <p>1. Fitz: He’s already “cleared” Rove, remember?. . . </p></blockquote> <p>We’re deep in EPU-land here, but this thread is more interesting to me than the more recent ones, so I’m still here.<br /> NO, Fitz has NOT already “cleared” Rove. That is what Rove’s lawyer claimed, not what Fitzgerald has said. He has simply decided not to prosecute at this time. Just because he <b>didn’t</b> doesn’t mean he <b>won’t</b>. We don’t actually know the details, because the contents of Fitzpatrick’s letter to Rove has never been made public. </p> <p>Bob in HI</p> Dumbwya @
218

Good piece. One lawyer’s take:

1. Fitz: He’s already “cleared” Rove, remember?. . .

We’re deep in EPU-land here, but this thread is more interesting to me than the more recent ones, so I’m still here.
NO, Fitz has NOT already “cleared” Rove. That is what Rove’s lawyer claimed, not what Fitzgerald has said. He has simply decided not to prosecute at this time. Just because he didn’t doesn’t mean he won’t. We don’t actually know the details, because the contents of Fitzpatrick’s letter to Rove has never been made public.

Bob in HI

]]> By: Bob Schacht http://firedoglake.com/2007/04/13/of-threats-and-deletions-and-a-hefty-helping-of-hubris/#comment-621480 Bob Schacht Fri, 13 Apr 2007 19:44:14 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/04/13/of-threats-and-deletions-and-a-hefty-helping-of-hubris/#comment-621480 <p><a href="#comment-621467"><em>Pat_AlexVA @<br /> 236 </em></a></p> <blockquote><p>Redd, I hate to correct you… but the term is <a href="http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=20001208">go to the mat, not go to the mattress</a>. Maybe this was covered already…</p> <p>See link for explanation.</p></blockquote> <p>There’s more than one “literary” allusion here. Check the FDL archives.</p> <p>Bob in HI</p> Pat_AlexVA @
236

Redd, I hate to correct you… but the term is go to the mat, not go to the mattress. Maybe this was covered already…

See link for explanation.

There’s more than one “literary” allusion here. Check the FDL archives.

Bob in HI

]]> By: Pat_AlexVA http://firedoglake.com/2007/04/13/of-threats-and-deletions-and-a-hefty-helping-of-hubris/#comment-621467 Pat_AlexVA Fri, 13 Apr 2007 19:31:44 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/04/13/of-threats-and-deletions-and-a-hefty-helping-of-hubris/#comment-621467 <p>Redd, I hate to correct you… but the term is <a href="http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=20001208">go to the mat, not go to the mattress</a>. Maybe this was covered already…</p> <p>See link for explanation.</p> Redd, I hate to correct you… but the term is go to the mat, not go to the mattress. Maybe this was covered already…

See link for explanation.

]]> By: Karen M http://firedoglake.com/2007/04/13/of-threats-and-deletions-and-a-hefty-helping-of-hubris/#comment-621460 Karen M Fri, 13 Apr 2007 19:21:40 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/04/13/of-threats-and-deletions-and-a-hefty-helping-of-hubris/#comment-621460 <p><a href="#comment-620876"><em>Peterr @<br /> 10 </em></a></p> <blockquote><p><a href="#comment-620868"><em>GSD @ 6</em></a></p> <blockquote><p>Christy,</p> <p>What law will Fred Fielding cite when he says “9/11 changed everything”?</p> <p>-GSD</p></blockquote> <p>I don’t know if he’ll cite it, but the Law of Diminishing Returns applies here, as (of course) does Murphy’s Law.</p></blockquote> <p>As well as… the more recent “DeLay Corrolary of Over-reaching.” </p> <p>(Disclosure: I am an expert on Murphy’s Law.)</p> Peterr @
10

GSD @ 6

Christy,

What law will Fred Fielding cite when he says “9/11 changed everything”?

-GSD

I don’t know if he’ll cite it, but the Law of Diminishing Returns applies here, as (of course) does Murphy’s Law.

As well as… the more recent “DeLay Corrolary of Over-reaching.”

(Disclosure: I am an expert on Murphy’s Law.)

]]> By: Karen M http://firedoglake.com/2007/04/13/of-threats-and-deletions-and-a-hefty-helping-of-hubris/#comment-621458 Karen M Fri, 13 Apr 2007 19:17:48 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/04/13/of-threats-and-deletions-and-a-hefty-helping-of-hubris/#comment-621458 <p>Apologies if this is a duplicate…</p> <p>Has anyone asked Ken Mehlman for a comment yet (now that he’s no longer with the RNC)? </p> <p>I am particularly struck by the change in protocol that was required, in order to keep Rove from deleting his own emails from the server. </p> <p>Wouldn’t that new policy have been implemented during Mehlman’s tenure? (While he was trying to reach out to the African-American community… while Rove was trying to suppress their votes?)</p> Apologies if this is a duplicate…

Has anyone asked Ken Mehlman for a comment yet (now that he’s no longer with the RNC)?

I am particularly struck by the change in protocol that was required, in order to keep Rove from deleting his own emails from the server.

Wouldn’t that new policy have been implemented during Mehlman’s tenure? (While he was trying to reach out to the African-American community… while Rove was trying to suppress their votes?)

]]> By: Pat_AlexVA http://firedoglake.com/2007/04/13/of-threats-and-deletions-and-a-hefty-helping-of-hubris/#comment-621455 Pat_AlexVA Fri, 13 Apr 2007 19:15:40 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/04/13/of-threats-and-deletions-and-a-hefty-helping-of-hubris/#comment-621455 <p>Hi Redd, my question for Mr. Fitz is - what is the current status of the investigation? Is it inactive, or has that status changed?</p> Hi Redd, my question for Mr. Fitz is – what is the current status of the investigation? Is it inactive, or has that status changed?

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