
(Photo of the delete key via virgu.)
Paul Kiel at The Muck has an interesting post this morning, riffing off some comments made in a NYTimes article about the clashing understanding of oversight and disclosure between Congress and Fred Fielding in the White House Counsel's office. Paul has graciously posted a copy of the Fielding response letter to Sen. Leahy and Rep. Conyers, and there are a couple of sections that I want to highlight for everyone this morning, because I think they are dispositive of a number of things, not the least of which is the overwhelming contempt that the Bush White House has for anyone who is not a Bushie and who would dare to question them. To wit:
Although it consists of individual components, the proposal reflects a unified offer that, if accepted, would result in your Committees receiving a significant amount of information. We, therefore, respectfully decline your suggestion to immediately produce the documents that we are prepared to release as part of a carefully and thoughtfully considered package of accommodations designed to avoid shifting the dispute to ground on which we need not tread. With all respect, your suggestion fails to credit fully the extraordinary nature of the disclosure we are prepared ot provide, and might even prolong this dispute which the President is seeking to resolve in the most expeditious manner possible.
Allow me to translate the legalese for you: Mr. Fielding is using felicitous language to tell Mssrs. Leahy and Conyers to go Cheney themselves. The President does not want them getting their hands on this information quickly due to, one would assume, the need to comb over every sentence for potentially politically damaging information contained therein, so that a WH strategy to counter it might be put into place. (Read: Rove would like his ass covered, thank you very much.) Mr. Fielding is, therefore, threatening to litigate this matter of discovery through the courts rather than hand over relevant discovery to Congress — and threatens to do so pretty much up front here.
But it is a hollow bluff. And here is why: Mr. Fielding knows, as do any attorneys who are looking at this with an honest eye, that Executive Privilege will not apply to any e-mails which were sent on RNC servers. Nor does it apply to any e-mails sent between staffers. And, therefore, unless the communication is directly with George W. Bush, it is not privileged and is subject to discovery by Congress for the legitimate purposes of oversight. But wait, there is >more from Mr. Fielding:
At the end of your March 28 letter, you raised an additional question regarding the scope of the document production we are prepared to make as part of the total accommodation outlined in the March 20 letter. We are aware that certain e-mail accounts supplied by the Republican National Committee may have been used by White House officials in sending or receiving e-mails that might fall within the production contemplated in our letter. Please be assured that it ws and remains our intention to collect e-mails and documents from those accounts as well as the official White House e-mail and document retention system, for production under the terms we outlined.
We continue to believe that the accommodation we offered on March 20, in addition to what the Department of Justice has and will porvide, will satisfy the Committees' interests. It is hoped that upon reflection you may concur in that conclusion.
Sen. Chuck Schumer is quoted in the NYTimes article as saying the WH response is "We are stonewalling." That is exactly how the end of the letter reads to me. Fred Fielding is an accomplished and experienced counsel, who has a long history of doing just that for his clients, including the Nixon Administration. He was brought into this White House at the start of the Democrats' tenure in charge of the Congress for a reason. And his skill at stalling with a polite but firm tone is at the top of his list of qualifications.
But Fred Fielding's letter has been outstripped by events on the ground in this matter. The revelation that the RNC had to set up a special protocol for Karl Rove's e-mails — because they kept disappearing off the RNC server during the course of a criminal investigation in which Mr. Rove was embroiled at the time (hello, Mr. Fitzgerald, and how are you this morning?) raises all sorts of uncomfortable questions that start — and end — with obstruction of justice.
Whoever knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States or any case filed under title 11, or in relation to or contemplation of any such matter or case, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.
Mr. Feilding having worked for the Nixon Administration, I am certain that he is more than familiar with the various statutory provisions for criminal prosecution for obstruction under federal law.
More from the WaPo and the LATimes, including this from the LATimes article:
Some of the e-mails were sent by the White House over special electronic communications links established by the RNC to handle political matters. Using government computers for such e-mails could violate federal laws governing presidential records and could threaten White House claims of executive privilege to shield internal documents from congressional scrutiny.
Rove, a political strategist who has become among the most influential presidential advisors in recent history, has encouraged Cabinet-agency political appointees to pay close attention to electoral politics when making policy and other decisions, and his role is at the heart of the investigations being pushed by congressional Democrats.
Immediately after Kelner briefed investigators Thursday, Waxman sent a letter to every Cabinet secretary asking them to preserve all e-mails received from any White House official who used accounts maintained by the RNC or any "other nongovernment account."
Leahy and Sen. Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania, the ranking Republican on the judiciary panel, wrote a letter to White House Counsel Fred F. Fielding asking that the White House establish an "objective process for investigating this matter, including the use of a mutually trusted computer-forensic expert."
Also Thursday, Rep. John Conyers Jr. (D-Mich.), chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, and Rep. Linda T. Sanchez (D-Lakewood), chairwoman of the panel's administrative law subcommittee, wrote to RNC Chairman Robert M. "Mike" Duncan, demanding "prompt delivery" by next week of all e-mails stored by the RNC related to the firing of the eight U.S. attorneys.
This needs to be done exactly by the book. The WH needs to be treated with the same care and courtesy any potential defendant in any criminal investigation might be treated when there is a suspician of tampering with evidence and of obstructing a lawful investigation. No more and no less. The White House and its staff are subject to the same laws and regulations as every other American. They are neither above the law, nor are they exempt from whatever provisions they happen to find constricting.
For far too long, Karl Rove and his political minions have been given the run of the White House to pull whatever dirty trick was necessary out of their hat to win elections. But an election is not just about winning — it is also about governing and about setting an example for the nation to follow. The Bush White House is an abysmal failure in that regard — and the pendulum of public opinion has swung back to a need for sunshine in the dark crevices of corruption and hubris. It is well past time for Mr. Rove to answer for his many, many sins against the principles upon which this nation was founded.
UPDATE: I had e-mailed Patrick Fitzgerald's spokesperson last night to see if he had any comment on Mr. Rove's alleged deletion of e-mails from the RNC server during the time that the investigation would have been ongoing. I just got a response from Randall Samborn that, indeed, the office was aware of the reporting on this matter, that he had received not only my questions but a number of others from news organizations, but that he would be "declining comment (of course) to questions about this matter." I expected this, but I wanted to quote Randy exactly once I got his "no comment." If and when I get any further update or news from Mr. Fitzgerald's office, I will of course share it with you guys.




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It’s Friday!
Oversight!
Fitz!!
Frogmarch!
Morning, Christy!
Christy,
What law will Fred Fielding cite when he says “9/11 changed everything”?
-GSD
Morning all! No idea what caused the graphic hiccup at the top, but I’ve reloaded the photo and it’s showing fine for me now. If you were having trouble seeing it, try refreshing.
From Fielding’s letter: “It is hoped that upon reflection you may concur in that conclusion.”
“It is hoped?” What is it with the passive voice and the White House?
As I said on the last thread, somebody seems not to appreciate the reality that “subpoena” does NOT mean “time to negotiate,” let alone “time to negotiate in bad faith.” It means “cough ‘em up, asshole.” No more, no less, no other.
GSD @ 6
I don’t know if he’ll cite it, but the Law of Diminishing Returns applies here, as (of course) does Murphy’s Law.
Peterr @ 8
Oh, you know…dodging responsibility. What else would it be with these guys?
Right on, Christy!
The political “feudal” system that Rove is building for BushCo must come down.
My bold.
You don’t make the terms there buddy, you jump. High.
The question I’ve had since the WH spokesweasel implied that the emails had been “lost” because individual WH staffers had deleted them, is this: Even if the system was set up (via IMAP or whatever) so that the emails were deleted off the server and were not backed up or recoverable from somewhere (doubtful), the server would still have a record of who deleted them and when. A nice list of attempts to delete emails, after a congressional investigation had expressly required that they be preserved, might at least mean we’d have to hear less of the “no evidence of wrongdoing” spin while investigators are digging further.
There are so many tips of so many icebergs with this administration I think Congress might find there’s no ocean when they finally get a look below the surface.
EvilDrPuma @ 11
Indeed. Their hubris is not to be believed.
Morning all~
Out of town, on the folks’ computer. LOVE this post, CHS, and love to see the tightening of the screws.
Peterr @ 8:
They can’t help themselves. The passive voice is intergral to their identity.
christy –
as always, spot-on!
now, apparently, most people
are not (yet) ALSO aware that
rep. henry waxman’s “love letters”
of last night — decrying all
these matters, and ordering
preservation of all e-mail,
and a complete inventory from
each addressee, by may 2, 2007. . .
went to every cabinet-level
member of the bush administration. . .
the record-keeping for may 2 alone is
going to grind on the administration!
~~~~~~~~~~~
full list of
administration
officials receiving
the waxman letter
~~~~~~~~~~~
Attorney General Gonzales
Secretary Kempthorne
Administrator Doan
Secretary Nicholson
Secretary Spellings
Secretary Chertoff
Secretary Johanns
Secretary Gutierrez
Secretary Leavitt
Secretary Bodman
Secretary Paulson
Administrator Johnson
Secretary Jackson
Secretary Gates
Secretary Chao
Secretary Rice, and
Secretary Peters. . .
that’s all, so far(!). . .
[my site has the condi rice version
in easy to read jpegs. . . i saw a
spike in my traffic, due to a referral
from the democratic underground, on this.]
cheers! — a busy news day ahead. . .
any news on the anticipated document dump?
Needless to say, every day they stall is another day they spend
deletingreviewing their email for release.I’m not a lawyer, but I am a tech guy, and I think the leaks that allege that Rove deleted email after the Fitz investigation started is enough to argue for seizure of the RNC servers, the WH servers, and the computers used as clients to those servers, for delivery to the nice people at the FBI’s forensic lab.
After the hell that these crooks have put the world through, I see no reason to settle for obstruction of justice. Let’s publish everything they’ve done and punish them for everything. The dead and displaced people of New Orleans, Iraq and our own armed forces deserve no less.
My favorite CHS ever!!
Boy, do these guys not like getting caught!
Redshift @ 14
I find it impossible, simply impossible, to believe that the IT dept. at the RNC didn’t routinely backup their servers. Organizations with two people have backup schemes.
Christy, I love the sweet scent of your snark in the morning.
book ‘em, danno…
My only question is why have they “authorized” subpoenas and not “issued” them – particularly as we now know that evidence is evaporating into the cyber void. I understand the need to proceed -legally and politically- methodically. BUT, time is a-wasting and evidence may be leaving this dimension.
My feeling is, call their bluff and raise ‘em. Hell, let’s go all in. At the same time, I trust Waxman, Conyers, and Leahy…the Oversight Trinity. So could someone patiently explain to me what the strategic thinking may be? Thanks!
Emails were lost.
nolo — Are the narrow margins on your comments because of something on your computer, or are you hitting “return” at the end of every line as you type in your comments? The “Leave a Reply” box ought to wrap the lines to the proper width if you just type them in.
You have to admire Fielding. The guy has a way with legalese:
Peterr @ 27
sorry — i do it on purpose.
i apologize if it annoys. . .
Christy,
Slightly OT, but related. Is it a crime not to engage in an investigation of wrongdoing where solid evidence exists? Specifically, is there any crime in removing USA Carol Lam when she was getting ready to investigate or indict other members of the Cunningham Corruption Club? It is not obstruction of justice per se, just elimination of it.
mh
Nothing short of impeachment will rein these rogues in…
Whether the impeachment leads to removal matters little now, the important thing is to wield every possible power available to force these lawless scoundrels to cough up their evidence, which is the property or the American people.
Until Congress actually holds the impeachment sword of Damacles over the WH head, their hubris will continue unabated.
Who knew that breaking laws would make one…A FECKIN’ CRIMINAL!
BTW, I wonder if Pat Fitzgerald has any interest…say a vested interest in non-WH addressed emails that might…ummm…just might be about Valerie Plame’s Betrayal?
You know, non-WH addressed emails to and from folks like KKKarl, Scoots, Deadeye and perhaps even Junya?
Stuff like “How do we cover this up?”
I wonder if Fred Fielding can spell “Member of A Conspiracy?”
Who knew?
nolo @ 29
Not a problem. I was just offering some friendly advice on the chance it was unintentional.
I’d love to see COnyers or Leahy compile the public statements by Bush and his spokespersons at the beginning, saying publically that he had nothing whatsoever to do with the firings and asking that Fielding detail the legal theory under which there is Executive Privilege for conversations that, according the President, never ended up in any communcations whatsoever with or involving the President?
RNC servers aside, I’d just like to see how Fielding addresses that issue.
Is he calling the subpoena a “suggestion”? Is that what he’s referring to?
I know I’m not a lawyer, but I still don’t understand something. Why is congress warning about subpeona before issuing them? Why is congress not going into these places and physically removing the servers? Isn’t that what the FBI does when it’s investigating something like this, and it looks like someone might delete the emails they would want?
For your reading pleasure, the Articles of Impeachment drafted against Richard Milhous Nixon.
Article #1: Obstruction of Justice.
Article #2: Abuse of Power.
Article #3: Contempt of Congress.
Those sound good to me.
Mornin Redd,
If push comes to shove- I wonder how congress can actually make certain that their subpeonas are complied with- they don’t have any cops- and they don’t have any courts. If the White House says “That’s all there is”- what can the congress do about it? You can’t send senators down to examine computer discs. At a practical level- how does this work? How do we get beyond “trust me”.?
ustice Department Documents Forthcoming
By Paul Kiel – April 13, 2007, 10:54 AM
As promised, the Justice Department has turned over hundreds (we’re not sure how many) of documents to the House and Senate judiciary committees.
We’ll let you know as soon as they’re publicly available.
James Robinson @
21
I like your style!
Please, FORCES THAT BE: What he said. I second the motion!
Total speculation –
Clear real-time crimes in the present are strong evidence for Articles of Impeachment and public opinion.
If Waxman/Conyers/Leahy have an “in” – just one person who’d rather be the next John Dean – deliberate data destruction (as described by their “in”) will support impeachment.
This is a wild-ass guess.
mayan @ 25
Fielding is such a wanker. I think approaching the RNC directly, and making clear that any end-run around the Congressional request will be seen as obstruction is the best thing they can do.
To me, it smacks of ‘privilege laundering’.
Fred Fielding wants the White House to gather and assess all of its back-channel emails, so that the assessment blesses them with the magic pixie dust of executive privilege. It also sounds like a fairly desperate effort to gather these little deliberately-lost sheep back into the flock.
And server logs. Postfix logs for SMTP, POP server logs, logs for any webmail engine. and so on.
But I also think it’s time to start taking control of hardware before it makes its way to the bottom of Dick’s bunker.
Nice post, but–risking pedantry–I would suggest editing this to eliminate the misplaced modifier. Unless you did in fact work for the Nixon Administration….
mornin’ Redd. Just checked PACER for last minute filings that are due today. nothing yet. will check again this weekend. sad to see transripts will not be posted to PACER.
Sounds to me like he’s saying, we’ll give you the emails and documents that don’t incriminate anyone at the WH (other than those we want to throw under the bus), but we won’t give you any of the emails and documents that incriminate the monarchy. Kind of like a fabricated new rule, email 5th Amendment. Fielding could probably now be referred to as freshly knighted, Sir Fielding. By the way, Sir Fielding, you don’t want to go down in history again as aiding and abetting crooks do you? Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
I say, we probably won’t need your stinkin’ emails in the end, because the RNC and others who received them (some of whom are stuck in jail) and who kept copies, will and are going to cooperate, because they no longer want to be associated with a bunch of fake Republican crooks. So go Cheney yourselves, yourselves.
Breaking News:
George W. Bush announces the appointment of the War Czar.
Ladies and Gentleman, General George Armstrong Custer.
-GSD
kirk murphy @ 24
I am certain that Mr. Fielding is more than familiar with what US v Nixon did to the claims he is pushing here. Alas, like the Iraq war strategy, his client wants to try the same thing again and again, hoping for different results.
jackie @ 38
it is Friday after all.
GSD @ 46
H I L A R I O U S!
Today Laura Rozen has a story at Information clearing house about Kurdistan, Mossad involvement, Bremer, oil and access,
http://www.informationclearing…..e17524.htm
Oil, Iraq, pipelines
http://www.janes.com/regional_….._1_n.shtml
Oil, Iraq, pipelines
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq…..50,00.html
Is there any crediblity about Feith and Perles involvement and conflict of interest issues in Turkey?
http://sibeledmonds.blogspot.c…..-marc.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/stanton11192005.html
Scarecrow
kathleen — There’s a NYT story http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04…..sloginthis a.m. about the Turkish military threatening to invade northern Iraq to go against Kurdish rebels striking Turkey. This is an unfolding nightmare for all.
Rule of law, rule of law, rule of law.
-GSD
GSD @ 46
excellent choice.
TiredFed @ 48
4:30 p.m., e.d.t. is my office pool bet.
NOT FOR PUBLICATION, JUST AN EDITING COMMENT: Christy — With apologies for the pickiness, the last line: “Having worked …,” indicates that you worked for the Nixon administration. Maybe: “Having worked …, Mr. Fielding is, I am certain, ….”
Sorry — the old journalist/English teacher in me couldn’t let an otherwise spectacular post go without comment.
GSD @ 46
Hee, hee, hee.
James Robinson @ 21
Why isn’t Rove arrested at this point? It is on record that he was deleting emails. The RNC (his own buddies) took steps to stop him so that he would not implicate others in the RNC. MC Pasty White should be doing the froggy dance now!
OT–but related:
From AP 30 minutes ago:
My bold. Is this a benchmark?
I’ve changed the offending sentence. Sorry that the rushed writing after a morning of server problems caused a grating grammar error.
mae @ 20
I can’t find it Mae, but I read earlier late afternoon. Friday dump time?
Fielding: We, therefore, respectfully decline your suggestion to immediately produce the documents that we are prepared to release
He’s right, ya know.
Until subpoenaes are actually *issued*, he can get away with this tactic and tone indefinitely.
fwiw
Favorite bumper sticker of all times – seen in ND:
“Custer Died for Your Sins”
OT-
Looks like Wolfbait is capitalizing on the cronyism promotion strategy for his girlfriend.
They want him fired.
More from CNN.
nolo @ 52
If it’s like last time, it’s more a matter of having the Judiciary Committee interns turn the documents into pdfs, then posting them on the committee website. It’ll be a long day at the copier/scanner in that office . . . and maybe a long night.
Loo Hoo at 59 — The dump has already occurred to the committees — it just hasn’t been made publicly available as yet.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 57
thank god. i was beginning to feel like the princess and the pea. (not)
India test fires a missile and almost takes out an Indonesian air liner.
All of this hyper war mongering has done such wonderful things for the planet.
Bombay’s Away!
-GSD
Yeah, Russia is also claiming that the US is helping radical groups in Russia…
Also, Israel almost shot down a US passenger jet yesterday too.
just something to keep in mind here folks, impeachment doesn’t go through the courts. It’s all handled right there in the U.S. House of Representatives. Let’s get it started.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 58
me? i liked it the other way. . .
j/k — this place is gonna’ rock all day!
“If push comes to shove- I wonder how congress can actually make certain that their subpeonas are complied with- they don’t have any cops- and they don’t have any courts.”
Because as Sen. Leahy alluded to, and I hope he’s right, that copies of email exist and are in hand. However, those will only be presented when WH/Fielding submits requested documents or not, hence the stalling.
Bio
Just a way of telling everyone- “We didn’t screw up- they did.”
Christy Hardin Smith @ 57
Apologies have been made . . .
lina @ 65
my bad. sorry. very sorry. pickiness was made.
Today is Friday the 13th after all. Maybe another really serious crime will be disclosed later today about this criminal and corrupt administration.
Meanwhile, I await Jason the masked one.
Peterr @ 63
jackie @ 38
it is Friday after all.
4:30 p.m., e.d.t. is my office pool bet.
If it’s like last time, it’s more a matter of having the Judiciary Committee interns turn the documents into pdfs, then posting them on the committee website. It’ll be a long day at the copier/scanner in that office . . . and maybe a long night.
wish I could give them a hand. and remember guys and gals, copy the back, too!
GeorgeSimian @ 35
First they ask politely for stuff. Then they send the subpoenas.
—————
How about asking the NSA if they can help find the ‘missing’ e-mail? Can Congress request NSLs too?
Christy @ 57:
The server made me do it. *g*
Marvelous, Christy.
Not that any of this comes a big ol’ shocker to pups like us who’ve been following this for so long.
But, man, did you ever drive home the point that this is supposed to OUR White House. We-the-People’s White House.
NOT the Bush White House. Or Karl’s shop.
What’s the American / Constitutional word for “sacrilege”?
I want my White House back. Now. (OK. You can give the keys to President Pelosi.)
There is no criminal investigation, yet, so I assume you mean the WH is entitled to at least the rights one would accord a criminal suspect. I see the Committees still using the language of Congressional oversight. Are the powers of investigation there the same as for a prosecutor? And don’t we need a special/independent prosecutor? Regardless of the political/tactical merits of that, it seems there’s more than enough evidence out there to warrant that.
pat at 71: I used to work in marketing communications, where all we did all day was crank out the written word. The motto around the office was “everyone needs an editor.”
I’d like an answer to #32 above too. Do you suppose Fitz is working quietly on this? I would think he’d be really annoyed if KKKarl side stepped his investigation.
Any of you lawyer types know?
Leahy is right. This is the 18.5 minute gap…
exponentialized by the power of the internets.
50 million ways to dump the Dubya.
Informative Christy! “telling Leahy and Conyers to go Cheney themselves” Funny!
Fielding seems to be a master of double speak, thanks for interpreting.
Thank you Fitz! Maybe Rove has strategized himself into hell. Many of us are clinging to your words and actions “truth is the engine of our judicial system” Please Please Please..
Stonewalling? Sounds more like “shredding” to me (virtually, that is.)
GSD @ 46
Bush should have expanded his reading list to include “The Court Martial of George Armstrong Custer,” a novel in which Custer survives the Little Big Horn battle to be tried for dereliction of duty. Comment by Sitting Bull as he passes Custer on the way back to his seat after testifiying- Too many, Yellow Hair. Too Many”…
Re: Hackworth @ circa 56:
“Why isn’t Rove arrested at this point? It is on record that he was deleting emails. The RNC (his own buddies) took steps to stop him so that he would not implicate others in the RNC.
I agree and would add that I have less understanding (and sympathy) now for his not being indicted by Fitz before. Fitz HAD to know what was going on, if he is half the prosecutor he’s reputed to be. What was Fitz thinking? That Rove had a 1% chance of acquittal and that would hurt Fitz’ batting average? WTF?
Redd,
I have the greatest respect for you and your opinions, but this time I have to say you’re wrong. If Congress chooses to work through the courts on this one, the loyal Bushies will stall.
Congress has plenary powers to issue subpoenas, seize documents and compel testimony. Now is the time to for them to do it. If they wait, they rely on W’s Dunder-Mifflin-esque Justice Department to obtain indictments and prosecute for contempt of Congress. Diva the Courageous Belgian Malinois will be President of the US before that happens.
On the other hand, by issuing a subpoena and seizing the RNC computers, they force the GoOPers in Congress on the horns of a destructive dilemma. If they vote in favor of the seizure, they render themselves vulnerable to primary challenger from the Reich wing of the party. If they vote in favor of document destruction, they risking enraging the general electorate. Telling the general electorate that Nixon was right is manifestly not a good idea: while the general electorate still believe that while Nixon may have been an okay president (he wasn’t, but by comparison with this shower?) he was wrong about destroying evidence.
It’s time to quit playing footsie with these people, and start cleaning the Augean stables that are the Old Executive Office Building and the West Wing of the White House.
BC
T- @ 62
Looks like the World Bank’s board of directors (aka The Illuminati) didn’t appreciate Dubya’s thoughtful selection of Mr. Greasylocks.
I understand that the White House will stonewall on their end — but the RNC is a separate entity (supposedly) so how can the administration block them from complying with a subpoena? They can’t, can they?
It is a useless and pointless endeavor on the part of the committee, if they are to depend entirely upon the Blight House to provide self-incriminating evidence in order to proceed with their investigation. If it is not their intention to obtain incriminating evidence, so much as it is to expose to a large third-party audience the Junta’s utter contempt for the American system of government, then perhaps they’re succeeding to some extent, especially through the blogospheric medium.
Jane Hamsher @ 82
You need to stonewall to give you enough time to finish the virtual shredding.
Good morning Jane.
When they suspected that Democrat – Jefferson, I think – of corruption, they raided his apartment and found money in his freezer. If they had asked politely, he would have gotten rid of it.
There are subpeonas issued for these emails. These guys have demonstrated that they will delete the emails if given a chance. Isn’t that enough reason to go in and take the servers? I don’t know who would do it, the FBI? The Sergeant at Arms?
rwcole @ 37
ah, but they do have cops. and can get (deputize) more. Both houses have law enforcement powers in the Sergeant at Arms. There is also a connection to the Capitol Police.
Biodun @ 73
Every Friday the 13th is a lucky day for me, so I am anticipating good news. Gonzo gone?
Document dump has arrived at TPM, with an invite to document dive. I love the internets :)
Did anyone catch this? From AP a little while ago:
GeorgeSimian @ 89
Yes, but that was a criminal investigation, backed by search warrants. We need all the tools of law enforcement to deal with suspected law breaking.
The thing I cannot shake from my mind about all of this is what is in those e-mails that is so explosive for Bushco that they would rather run with such blatantly lame and unbelievable explanations like the e-mails were lost. I mean really, in today’s world the average citizen knows just how unlikely that is and how hard it is to truly delete/lose anything in the online world, so why be willing to run with that excuse? To my way of thinking that can only mean that whatever these e-mails do contain is so dangerous that it would likely support impeachment even by GOP Congresscritters because once the public sees them they will be the ones demanding it and anyone getting in the way would feel the public’s wrath.
Just something to keep in mind when in the weeds on this story. Given all the twists and turns and spin around the details of what e-mails are in which server and are covered by what privilege (if any) I can see the original point of the content of those e-mails being lost. Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to speculate, as we were all told and had demonstrated by the author of that quote P Noonan back during the Clinton Presidency. One of the few things I am enjoying about all of this is how the Clinton witch hunts have reduced the ability of this Presidency to protect itself both from Congressional action and from the reaction in the public to their evasions and their deceptions.
Umm, the 2000 campaign promise to restore integrity to the whitehouse. Or was it to the pentagon, or was itto the congress, or was it to the state department, or was it to fema, or was it Iraq reconstruction, or was it the justice department? So many others?
Umm, this integrity thingy…so confusing.
Joel Mael
Can congress physically sieze the computers? Who would do it? Congressional staff? Does anyone know how this works?
Does congress have to rely on Abu’s justice dept to physically sieze anything?
Does anyone know?
I’ve updated the post above with the response that i just got back from Randall Samborn, Patrick Fitzgerald’s spokesperson. Just FYI all.
Cuewhiffle @ 43
haha. yeah, I could not figure out for a second how Christy could possibly have worked for Nixon – like, did they have a child care center she was in??? sorry, I’m just barely old enough to have been a highschool intern at the time. there’s no way Christy could have “worked” there.
Methinks the subpoena as described above is missing something- though it may be hard to make the case for it yet. In particular, I’d like to see the emails sent by the DOJ employees (and any other federal employees) who belong to the Republican National Lawyers Assn sent to Rover at gwb43 and the other listed RNC email hosts. These should be within DOJ servers and backups and would show the direct thoughts of these scumbags. Indeed, get all emails from anyone in the Civil Rights division of DOJ sent to these email addresses- isn’t that supposed to be a completely non-political division? So there should be no communications from them using DOJ resources to discuss purely political topics.
Should I re-send that compilation of comments and articles about Turkey and the Kurds again? Or just wait? I did copy it
GSD @ 46
lol. thank goodness I just swallowed my last sip of coffee!
Ha! Hackworth, MC Pasty White. He is rather a Pillsbury dough boy.
See it at 50 sorry.
Adie @ 61
It’s also the title of a great book by the late Vine deLoria, academic and writer from the Souix (I think Lakota, but I’m not certain.)
BC
BC at 86 — I did not say, anywhere in this post, that they shouldn’t issue subpoenas. Where did you get that idea? Hell, yesterday I very clearly stated they should “go to the mattresses” on this one. Criminal defendants get subpoenas and evidence seizures and warrants handed to them all the time. The White House should be treated no differently. I thought that was pretty clear in my post.
From the dump:
From: Sampson, Kyle
To: Elston, Michael (ODAG); Hertling, Richard
CC: Goodling, Monica; Moschella, William; McNulty, Paul J; Seidel, ~ebecca
Sent: Thu Feb 01 16:15:00 2007
Subject: RE: Bud Cummins
I don’t think he should. How would he answer:
Did you resign voluntarily?
Were you told why you were being asked to resign?
Who told you?
When did they tell you?
What did they say?
Did you ever talk to Tim Griffin about his becoming U.S. Attorney?
What did Griffin say?
Did Griffin ever talk about being AG appointed and avoiding Senate confirmation?
Were you asked to resign because you were underperforming?
If not, then why?
Etc., etc.
Jenny from the Blog @ 88
The misunderstanding is believing that the WH and the RNC are 2 separate entities.
One of the 1st principles of the Repug party is that the Repug Pary is the Government, doncha know?
It ain’t just the mythical separation of Church and State that Repugs disagree with.
Mad Dogs @ 32
Does anyone know if Mr. Fitz is back from vacation? I’m sure he’s tanned, rested and knows he has more work to do.
Document dump and sifting at TPM here.
The Docs are here! Go get ‘em!
Actually, the docs are on the judiciary committee’s website, with a link there via TPM.
I hope their servers are ready . . . it’s going to be a bumpy ride.
We have been going on about ’standards’, with lots of disagreement as to where bars should set. My contention is that the principle is like the famous Performance Evaluation statements — “He/she constantly sets low targets for achievement and equally constantly fails to reach them.” and, “He/she is so shallow he/she would be challenged by a car park puddle.”
We have thus arrived at a President who just does not understand the difference between right and wrong, and naturally he has a staff and circle around him who are the same. They just do not know what they are doing is wrong, mostly, and when they do they are like infants of 5, they think we have not seen them. There is one of them over there now at the World Bank, the A**AC/PNAC employee Wolfowitz, who just seems not to get that what he did for his chick is ILLEGAL!
BTW I wonder which of them is spying on which for The Other Side.
I can’t wait to leave work so that I can dumpster dive thru those docs! Woohoooo
Related to DOJ (Gonzo) but not totally on-topic -
I hope I am not duplicating a post to this link. Very funny.
http://www.markfiore.com/animation/gonzo.html
Please contact (D) Senator Rockerfeller about Phase II of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. Let him know that we expect those responsible for false pre-war intelligence to be held accountable.
Senator Jay Rockefeller
531 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20510
202.224.6472
A plea to every national lawmaker who might read this blog;
How long will you people continue to let your constituents be violated by this lawless rogue?
Only YOU have the power to make Rove testify, and if he refuses, you have the power to throw him in jail REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH ROYALISTS CLAIM.
Many GOOD Americans have gone to prison for lesser crimes than those Rove has committed, and many more have died during war AND peace to protect us from this kind of unchecked power mongering.
DO YOUR JOB!!!
It is an easy solution to a complex problem… force Rove to testify under oath, and don’t let him spin his answers like he is in charge of YOU!!!
go ahead and let them delete the emails, trash the servers, etc. It only gets worse as they do that. If they do that, at some point, the IT folks at the RNC are going to have to testify about who told them to delete backup tapes. And when they say that they were told to do that after receiving the letters from Waxman etc. then they’re hosed. Even w/o the emails.
Having gone on record telling them to preserve and to share is enough now …
CHS, re: Fitz. I’d really like to know if Fitz knew about this crap at the time (I suspect so). Because I’m quite sure he would have sent out a bunch of memos saying that the “minor oversight” of using RNC servers for e-mail that pertains to White House business was “slightly illegal”. The fact that the RNC altered its policy for Rove, and Rove alone, suggests to me that something like this really did happen. Fitz would never release any such memos, if he sent them at all. But now that we’ve gotten to the point that it’s clear that Rove’s e-mail was being erased, Congress should ask the key questions: Was anyone at the White House or the DOJ ever informed that their official e-mails were to be sent ONLY from government servers? Is there any written correspondence confirming this? If so, what actions were taken? Were any e-mails erased AFTER this time?
GeorgeSimian @ 91
Christy Hardin Smith @ 108
In your penultimate paragraph, you said:
This struck me as saying, “Work through the court system.” Working through the courts is the wrong thing in this case, because it gives the conspirators the thing they need most: Time to get their lies straight, and time to assure the destruction of anything too deadly.
Seize the goddam RNC servers, turn them over to the GAO and be done with it.
BC
Scarecrow @ 94
How do you open a criminal investigation against the DOJ, and get search warrants to go into their offices? It seems like there’s more than enough here to go forward with some of this.
Christy Hardin Smith @
100
Samborn’s response: “no comment (of course) . . .”
If Fielding needs a refresher on what “by the book” means, perhaps he could ask Fitz for lessons.
Scarecrow @
89
The virtual shredding will not do them a bit of good.
Anything information can be recovered, and short of the physical destruction of the drives there are no deletion or wiping algorithms that cannot be circumvented. There are always traces left on the platen surface.
They was fuckin withya Fitzy- ya gonna let em get away with it?
I suspect that an underlying concern exists re:Democratic Presidential Hopefuls (especially Hillary) hope to err on the side of caution so as avoid the wrath of Right Wing Pundits who provide the thought processes for the 60,000,000 voters who voted for Bush in 2004, who may vote for a Democrat in 2008 if it is perceived that the Democratic investigative committees are being fair to the accused Republicans in these myriad scandals.
BC -
If the Judiciary Committee issues subpoenas, to the WH or the RNC, and those folks want to challenge them, they take it to the courts. It’s not that Congress would take it to the courts — that’s what the WH and RNC will do.
That’s how Nixon got hung out to dry. He challenged having to turn over all kinds of things, including the infamous tapes, Judge John Sirica called “bullshit” on unlimited claims of executive privilege, and a unanimous (8-0) Supreme Court backed him up.
Does anyone have a sense of the application of federal e-mail interception laws, ie 18USC2510 – 2521..
For example: It seems Fitz has some authority, if not obligation, under..
And, I am having problems posting comments. As soon as I hit the “submit comment” button, something happens to my FireFox browser and I am blocked entirely from pulling up Firedoglake dot com.
I am not sure if I have done anything to be banned, but thought I had been fairly reasonable in my occasional posts. Please advise if there is a tech contact I can exchange troubleshooting e-mails with. Thanks
Peterr @
47
Definition of craziness: doing the same thing in the same way again and again and hoping to get different results.
Elections have consequences. Thank the universe for the results of the November elections…
Mad Dogs -
I know in reality the RNC is an arm of the White House, but technically what leg does the Administration have to block a subpoena of a supposedly independant assocation.
I guess the answer is: none. But what else is new?
From doc dump (set 3):
From: Goodling, Monica
Sent: Monday, February 12,2007 1 :46 PM
To: Nowacki, John (USAEO)
Attachments:
USA data (GWB).xls
JSA data (GWB).xls
(44
hackworth @ 126
The one key word here is “err”, which is what they are all doing if they don’t stomp on this email deletion scandal RIGHT NOW!!!
The other thing that’s killing me about this stuff is that they’re stonewalling on emails that go back to 2005. So they’re saying that EVERYTHING before that, just forget about it, like it’s not even a possibility that they might turn that over. And that stuff would be real meaty.
They are looking at a document dump on Muckraker
Peterr @ 128
This was in the context of a criminal proceeding.
Puesto at 129 — We’ve had tech issues all morning. Please be patient and hopefully things will smooth out once the full troubleshooting has been completed.
Puesto,
It happens to me all the time. I get a Firefox.exec pop-up and I get thrown off and have to reload…I don’t know how to stop it. It started a couple of months ago.
The Doc dump is up, linked through TPM to House Judiciary.
I read through part 1, which is spreadsheets of various individuals and their qualifications.
Interestingly, beyond tracking prosecutorial experience, they track whether the individual was a judge, whether they had elective/political office, and whether they were/are members of the Federalist Society.
From the dump:
Josh and friends are all over DocuDump #4. No smoking guns yet, but some great political fodder. Something about Tom Cruise’s character in “A Few Good Men” being based on David Iglesias. I guess Tom Cruise’s star has fallen so far that even the characters he plays are getting shafted.
Dover Bitch @ 15
This made me laugh out loud. And then I started to weep. lol
Sorry Christy, I still don’t know what you are advocating. Is issuing subpoenas “by the book” or are these polite letters required before issuing the subpoenas? Color me one of the people who think that every minute without a subpoena is a minute more to destroy evidence.
hackworth @ 126
I don’t understand that strategy.
It would seem to me that a perfectly good alternate would be to let wingnut pundits go after you, or at the very least, not consider them. The candidate can them adopt an underdog status, and America loves an underdog.
Christy Hardin Smith @
100
No comment is scary. Imagine being Karl Rove right about now…
Scribe at 140 — I was just looking at that as well. Very interesting on the political tracking portion of things, isn’t it?
I keep wondering I anyone was dumb enough to suggest, in writing, that they should sack Fitz for indicting Scooter. They seem to be trying awfully hard to keep his name out of this.
This is what I wanted to hear.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 108
Peterr @ 128
I remember, Peter.
There are cases on record of Congress using its power to seize documents and persons who refuse to cooperate, without going through the court system. The Supreme Court has denied writs of habeas corpus in these cases, saying (in effect) that Congress does have this power.
Congress doesn’t use it often, but if there was ever a time to use it, this is it.
BC
Frank Probst @ 147
The answer is arrogance, sheer arrogance.
I usually refrain from commenting here because so many other people voice my same concerns and opinions better than I could but today I wanted to offer my perspective on the events that are unfolding in front of us. When I read Digby this morning and now Christy’s take on what is going on between Congress and the neocons I felt a deep sense of history in the making. I’ve never cared for George W. Bush and only realized recently that it is due to his close resemblance to my abusive, alcoholic ex-husband who never took responsibility for anything. But what strikes me the most now is how much I just KNOW that we are witnessing W’s administration and infiltration of our government going down in flames. The neocons make Richard Milhouse Nixon’s crimes seem mild in comparison and their contempt for the laws that govern the rest of America is palpable. Rove’s master plan to create a country of one party rule is slowly unraveling and I thank God that he has finally been exposed for what he is; a sweaty fat man full of greed and ready to corrupt the Constitution at every turn. Is there any doubt that he is careeing toward a humiliating reckoning? And to add to the flames the magnificent interview given by Nancy Pelosi on Today where she said “The president is not a king”. The gloves are off and we all need to let Congress and Senate know we have their backs. They are doing the work that the American people have asked for to end this ill fated, illegal war and rein in the stunning abuse of powers committed by the neocons.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 137
Okay. Thanks
archive.org has over 1000 versions of “georgewbush.com” dating back to January 1999. While these are web pages, it shows that it’s possible for things on the web can be found in many places outside of the control of the originators. Emails may also turn up in unexpected ways, even if deleted by the WH minions.
i meant careening and not careeing – hmm wonder why spell check didn’t pick that up?
Any techies out there? I have a question. On some of the documents in the doc dumps, I am able to cut and paste easily. On some of the documents, I cannot cut. Someone just told me that is significant and has to do with something being a copy of an actual document or that the document may have been manipulated, i.e., the 2 Monica Goodling cut and pastes I posted above. Anyone understand what I am saying?
Nice post Motherbear.
Out of hibernation already? You must be hungry. Well, looks like FDL will be serving up some fresh meat for us all.
;)
Christy Hardin Smith @ 100
Thanks Christy. I have been thinking about emailing Fitz’s office myself about the email servers even before the report on Rove’s deleted ones. I guess I didn’t because I feel Fitz has had such high expectations laid on him by so many for so long. And I don’t expect him to solve all of the problems created by this corrupt WH.
But now that Rove’s deleted emails are known in the timeframe of Fitz’s investigation of the CIA leak. Do you think it is time for all of us to send an email or call Fitz’s office asking for some action on this?
I sent Fitz an email to thank him and his team for their hard work after the Libby verdict – and I actually got a nice reply back.
I have a question…since the White house saw fit to use the RNC computer servers for this type of communication, does this mean that ALL RNC corespondence can be examined for ties to White House plans? I mean, we need to be thorough, yes? It is possible that other illegal RNC strategies could emerge in the investigation of this issue, right? Say: voter suppression? Or is Congress prevented from peripheral information that it comes across? I am not a lawyer, so would this be a fishing expedition — why not just seize the servers? If it were my computer, the FBI would have already taken it bye-bye by now in the commission of a crime…
Loo Hoo @ 146
Rove long ago trained Bush on “how to pardon”.
Argonaut @ 144
I think Christy is saying that, as part of a Congressional oversight hearing (as opposed to a criminal investigation), you’re obligated to ask politely for things before you subpoena them. As for the possibility that Karl Rove is even now taking a blow torch to the hard drives at the RNC, it’s not as big of a problem as you might think. They could certainly be destroying evidence at this very moment, but it going to be VERY hard for them to do it in such a way that it’s not patently obvious that there was destruction of evidence. The tech people know this, and it’s unlikely that they’re going to help them do something illegal if they’re reasonably sure they themselves will get caught doing it.
FRESH DOCUMENT DUMP: dive in pups.
http://judiciary.house.gov/Pri…..ection=472
lolo
What’s the Vegas line on Wolfie gettin canned? World bank decided to give the issue a little more thought.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 58
I see a new acronym abirthing – GGE. ;o)
GGE an error in a blogpost that spoils otherwise excellent writing.
Excellent post as always, Christy.
Scarecrow @ 137
But with the Republican loading of the courts… what is the likelihood of a judge taking Judge Sirica’s tack these days?
LS @ 156
If the document is an image of the document and not the actual document, you can’t easily copy the text.
LS @
156
Are some PDF’s and some word docs?If you have Adobe Pro you can save PDF’s as plain or RTF’s and then open them in word.
From the dump:
What’s on the 4th floor of DOJ? Anyone?
Lots of you are saying, “Impeach, what are you waiting for?”
What they’re waiting for is public opinion. For Ghu’s sake, come Monday morning, CALL your Senators and Representatives and tell them you want this criminal regime impeached.
If there’s a weekend talk show you can call into, call and express your outrage. Call the TV networks and ask why they’re not covering this.
If we put the energy into this that folks did to get Imus canned, we can light a fire under Congress. If not, now, when?
Liberty Lover @ 158
I can see them try to work this to their advantage. They could conceivably make the claim that because it’s records contain exec branch communication that it is covered under exec privilege. It doesn’t have to be a defensible argument either. All it has to do is stall things.
raven @ 167
To expand on that, if some of them are Acrobat (.pdf) documents of scans, you’ll be unable to get into them. It’s an image, there is no text to recover.
You should be able to tell, because you’ll be in an Acrobat (or Acrobat Reader) window on your browser.
BC
Bargain Countertenor @ 149
Sorry to pop this bubble, but with all due respect, Scalia, Clarence, Alito and Roberts – SCAR – never saw a constitutional precedent they couldn’t bend to the breaking point.
This is a scary Court. America will never be the same when this scar has grown over.
Clearly this isn’t my day. I’d better get back to work.
Aloha, folks.
BC
Bargain Countertenor @ 171
I’m seeing a lot of PDF’s at that link.
Liberty Lover — there are plenty of good/honest judges left; we had one for the Libby trial. But as Christy says, you have to do this by the book.
raven @ 174
Sometimes you can copy text from a PDF and sometimes you can’t. It depends on the viewing program and also how the PDF was created.
raven @ 174
That’s why you can’t cut and paste, then. I think you need the full-blown Acrobat to cut-and-paste, anyway. Even then, you can’t get into scans unless you do a text conversion first.
BC
Preview is my friend. I got it right this time.
Jenny from the Blog @
88
Blackmail?
Scarecrow @ 175
I know that there are good honest judges out there, but don’t you see what this administration has done? It has us (me) questioning the very validity/honesty of the courts…
Sometimes you can copy text from a PDF and sometimes you can’t. It depends on the viewing program and also how the PDF was created.
I wonder how the blacked out stuff in the Sampson file will copy?
doubtless epu’d by now (I’m back at work – just looking in) – but that letter from Fielding is un-f’ing-believable. I’m sorry I’m not moer eloquent – my astonishment at the arrogance of these guys just takes my breath (and vocabulary?) away.
Thanks Christy, for keeping us up to date. And your awesome reporting skills – already you’ve checked in with Fitz’s spokesperson — bet he’s busy today.
What’s on the 4th floor of the DOJ building? Apparently the FISA hearing room is…
Bargain Countertenor @ 177
That’s why I said you needed Adobe Pro.
Morning, everyone!
Dover Bitch @ 23
I agree. However, I also would add the caveat that it wouldn’t shock me if they had a detailed review process and purged any “smoking guns” from their records. The absence of evidence does not necessarily convict them – but, if people were using various accounts and systems, it is possible that a trail of breadcrumbs can be established. And, it’s very possible that they’ve missed some breadcrumbs (which is how we learned about gwb43.com and the other non-governmental domains).
My gut instinct is that the people who hatched this idea of using non-govermental systems for political purposes didn’t think about what grey areas people would wander into. They might try to claim the US Atty firings was political (which it was), so some people may have inadvertently used non-govt email systems to communicate about this official business. That’s not a very good defense for why they used non-government email, and why they fired the attorneys, is it?
The people who hatched this plan probably never thought out the ramifications in an administration where the line between “official business” and “political” is virtually nonexistant. They likely didn’t properly train everyone on how to evaluate if an action is “official” or “political”. Some end users probably didn’t realize that their use of non-government systems for official business is against the law and removes “executive privilege” as an effective excuse for stonewalling.
Just think, if the Democrats had not taken the House and Senate, we may never have found out about this.
The Democrats have only been in power for three months. Just imagine what other dirty deeds they have committed. I have a feeling we’ve scratched the surface, and more astonishing discoveries will be made in the coming months. Whether the Republicans or Democrats want it or not, investigating corruption will be the focus of this Congress.
Scarecrow @ 175
The number of Bush toadys now on the Supreme Court make it seem like the end game is fixed.
145noen says I don’t understand that strategy.
It would seem to me that a perfectly good alternate would be to let wingnut pundits go after you, or at the very least, not consider them. The candidate can them adopt an underdog status, and America loves an underdog.
Noen, you are right. I am disgusted with their chick*nsh*t triangulations and fear of the Republican Media Machine. It is imperative that Democrats stand up for American citizens and go after these criminals, but they are afraid. Its sad.
If they give Slick Rove enough time he may find a way out of this. Incredibly, our hope lies with members of the RNC. Rove got his way with Fitzgerald re:Plame/Libby. I hope we nail him this time. Dubya will be left flapping in the wind without his brain.
I’ll ask again:
johnSwifty @
62
What do you do? I think the eventual answer has to be impeachment; from the bottom up or the top down, it doesn’t matter but these authoritarian assholes are like pocket monsters, you’ve gotta get ‘em all.
But my question for the legal eagles is one of procedure. What steps can congress follow in ‘contempt’ proceeding — or some other — which will lead to the conclusion for all people that impeachment is a necessary inevitability?
raven @ 180
Sometimes you can copy text from a PDF and sometimes you can’t. It depends on the viewing program and also how the PDF was created.
I wonder how the blacked out stuff in the Sampson file will copy?
If you have the actual PDF, sometimes you can see the blacked out stuff using a binary viewing program.
Hey!!!
Are you people aware that you can read some of the redacted parts?
They didn’t use a dense enough black ink. What you usually do is you ink the redacted sec and then re-photo copy it.
But they didn’t. You can read beneath the ink.
Puesto @ 172 says
This is a scary Court. America will never be the same when this scar has grown over.
But that’s why I believe Kennedy will most likely swing the vote to Breyer, Ginsburg, Stevens, and Souter arming a majority. He may be a half-conservative on some issues but he does seem to have a respect for the Constitution.
dakine01 @ 130
I believe that is the definition of George Bush’s managerial strategy. You can apply it to just about everything he and his administration have done in the past six years.
re; Doc Dump, What do the #’s at the bottom of each copied page mean? Were they on the originals or are they from the copiers?
lolo @ 162
Anyone notice how Griffin’s qualifications are continually and progressively amplified and expanded as these documents progress?
Check out page 2 vs. page 19 in the first set of documents…
From the dump:
Fresh thread for everyone. This one was getting a bit long.
landofthefree @ 184
Motherbear @ 152
Well said, Motherbear. My gut instincts have gone on alert as well.
Slightly OT but the link is to the Title
“Hubris, hubris!” to misquote Fitz.
You couldn’t make the Wolfowitz story up.
Paul Wolfowitz , Master of the Universe, helps start the Iraq fiasco.
GWB then appoints him Chair of the World Bank.
The air is loud with the sound of jaws dropping round the world.
W sets about everyone in his crusade against corruption by black, yellow, brown and otherwise non-American guys and encourages the adoption of American values. Would those be the values of Messrs Lay, Fastow and Ebbers?
W causes this crusade to interfere with provision of aid to some of the World’s poorest countries.
W upsets everyone to the extent even Tony Blair’s Minister for Overseas Development, Hilary Benn, withholds the British contribuion.
Then it turns out W has done the following:
First, he arranges for his squeeze who works at the World Bank to get a job at the US State Dept..
She goes on being paid by the World Bank while working for the USA, which does not own the World Bank.
The World Bank, supposed to be to help poor countries, is thus subsidising part of the Government of the USA.
Second W orders that she gets a huge guaranteed raise, increasing the subsidy. He does not bother to get any approval of this from other World Bank Directors or the Ethics Committee.
Thirdly, when he’s caught he whines, “Gee, I made a mistake because I was new and didn’t know what I should be doing, and I had a personal dilemma, Forgive me.” (I paraphrase but only a little.
What part of “corruption” and “nepotism” doesn’t he understand?
LS @ 156:
I think – and this is pure, semi-informed opinion – the difference is that some of those docs may be scanned images (that is, only graphics) and some may be docs saved as PDFs, where it might be effectively a doc file. Stuff you do in a word-processor and save as a PDF (some WPs do this, and it’s handy) would probably be grabbable too, IMO.
Does anybody know where the RNC hosts their hardware? At this point people need to be camped out with video watching for the trucks taking the stuff away.
“NEW BRUNSWICK, N.J. – Rutgers women’s basketball coach C. Vivian Stringer said Friday the team had accepted radio host Don Imus’ apology. She said he deserves a chance to move on but hopes the furor his racist and sexist insult caused will be a catalyst for change.
“We, the Rutgers University Scarlet Knight basketball team, accept — accept — Mr. Imus’ apology, and we are in the process of forgiving,” Stringer read from a team statement a day after the women met personally with Imus and his wife.”
Well- Imus must feel good about that one!
GeorgeSimian @ 135
You can say that again
JEP @ 193
The first, short entry is at 2:43 PM and the longer, exaggerated version shows up after 8PM…
Pdfs that are made up of images of pages can be OCR’d using Acrobat (as distinguished from Reader). You can also save such pdfs as raw tiffs and run them through such dedicated OCR software as IRIS.
Wolfie gives big bills ta gal he’s bangin..Nice job wolfie.
Why do these Bushies all have the feeling that they can do whatever the fuck they want?
Bargain Countertenor @ 196
I also keep on remembering sometime during the Libby trial Fitz saying “You don’t use emails too much” Was that to Libby? I can’t remember. Was it the grand jury testimony?
Christy – From the beginning this has played like a RICO squeeze rolling-up the bad guys layer by layer.
Doesn’t it make sense that one of the last pieces law enforcement would reveal is that they have been inside and listening to the Communications network that Coordinates BushCo’s circumvention of the law?
I would say the Trap has been sprung – and it’s too late now for BushCo to get out. The only real question is ‘How many more will indict themselves in yet another cover-up?’
Are we looking at the first signs of the final take-down?
Liberty Lover @ 178
As well you should! I live in a semi-rural area where the district courts are completely controlled by the local GOP machine. The machine tells the governor who to appoint, and then the judges are lackeys, owing their jobs to the local machine.
One criteria of late is they must brandish their “Federalist Society” credentials, which is code for towing the GOP line in court.
I had a new Federal Magistrate judge tell me directly that he had an obligation to make decisions which reversed the “tide of liberal decisions over the last few decades.”
I was shocked! I have become completely cynical about judges and courts.
I can honestly make the statement – and defend it – that most judges are political hack lawyers who owe their jobs to the political level.
This whole DOJ scandal, and Rove’s agenda, is further along than people realize. Talk to people who have had to deal with the courts for some time. Talk to an everyday lawyer who leans liberal. They will confirm what I say.
“no comment” yet.
Fitz “truth is the engine of our judicial system”
Thanks for giving us some hope, we are hanging on by a thread.
hackworth@186 said:
If they give Slick Rove enough time he may find a way out of this. Incredibly, our hope lies with members of the RNC. Rove got his way with Fitzgerald re:Plame/Libby. I hope we nail him this time. Dubya will be left flapping in the wind without his brain.
Harry Houdini himself couldn’t get Rove out of this. I know it’s uncomfortable to feel this way given the last 6 plus years, but as I said yesterday, it’s over. Too many fires breaking out and not enough firehoses.
One of my favorite comments in recent weeks was an anonymous Democratic congressman who said re: oversight “Every tree we look up has a cat in it!”
I suggest not only is that streak still intact, they are finding multiple cats in each tree.
Fielding’s modus operandi is to give out a plethora of documents only some of which are relevant and none of which could constitute a “smoking gun”.
It’s as if a suspect in a criminal investigation were allowed to turn over only the evidence they knew would not incriminate them.
“Officer, here’s some stuff for you but we turned the house upside down and there’s no bloody clothes and no murder weapon here. Honest!!!”
Kind of defeats the purpose of investigating.
Biodun @ 194
Don’t know where but I’ve read these words before.
rwcole @
205
Because they haven’t got shit all over them?
Btw, one of the big advantages of converting page images to text — as described above — is that it becomes searchable. People here have been talking about the ability to cut and paste or save as a Word format. But more importantly you want the capability of finding something quickly amid all the junk that’s being thrown at the committee.
Leahy and Sen. Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania, the ranking Republican on the judiciary panel, wrote a letter to White House Counsel…
so I’m just scratching my head wondering how Feigned-Bluster Specter will find a way to roll over on his back for a White House tummy rub on this one. he always does.
It might help the MSM if they occasionally referred properly to the “executive privilege of confidentiality” rather than just the shorthand. It’s a judge-made right (those darn activist judges!) of the President to keep certain of his communications private. Abuse it and lose it.
Tell a lawyer something in confidence, for example, and he or she can’t disclose it because they act for you. But if you tell the cab driver, it’s no longer confidential information. The Coke formula is a trade secret, the attempted unauthorized disclosure of which just landed a former officer in deep trouble. If a Coke executive let’s it slip at a conference, it’s no longer protected.
Ditto with Shrub’s communications. If he keeps them on restricted government servers hemmed in by legal, physical and virtual security measures, they remain private because he treats them as confidential. If he releases them to non-government sources not subject to those same restrictions, he is no longer treating them as government secrets and they are no longer subject to his privilege of confidentiality. (It’s irrelevant that they may be partisan secrets; executive privilege doesn’t protect those.)
Needless to say, communications that don’t relate to the President’s conduct of govt business are not subject to the executive privilege of confidentiality in the first place.
So, Fred Fielding has two hurdles to jump, not one. And he no longer looks spry enough to leap either.
Good piece. One lawyer’s take:
1. Fitz: He’s already “cleared” Rove, remember? Gave him 5 chances to change his story to the grand jury? and I seriously doubt the deleted emails is news to him. If he didn’t know that already he didn’t investigate the most basic thing in the case.
2. Just because an email is done on the RNC server doesn’t foreclose them arguing or using Executive Privilege. They are already laying the groundwork for this by saying that they erroneously conducted “official” business on the RNC emails. Why would they concede this? They ususally concede nothing. Because it takes them where they want to go.
Invoking the privilege doesn’t depend on what server is used, in MHO.
James Robinson @ 21
My bold. I would strongly encourage adding one more set of servers: the original servers that processed all these emails.
The perfect way to clean email servers of all deleted, incriminating, emails: replace the servers. Bring in clean hard drives, processors, files, the whole shabang. There are no ghosts on brand spanking-new servers.
Who is holding all those deleted emails? The NSA and FBI, via their wiretapping and surveillance systems.
mayan @ 25
Mayan, you are exactly right about proceeding in a methodical manner. This must be so, especially if we are ultimately building an impeachment case. That said, there can be benefits to letting the bad guys destroy evidence that is known or strongly suspected to exist. By raising the public specter of the Bushies destroying evidence, the Bushies can end up with more shit on their face that they expected. The Dems must frame this allegation correctly, to give the strong impression that the Bushies are destroying evidence and obstructing evidence ala Scooter Libby. And then methodically proceed with all the investigations. As Fitz proved, and even Hillary with her Rose Law firm billing docs that miraculously appeared on a table during the Clinton WH, sometimes destroyed evidence can be miraculously be discovered when it is to the benefit of the guy who originally destroyed it. Don’t waste too much time fretting about lost emails – devise a strategy for turning this issue around and sticking it right back up the asses of those who deleted.
Phoenix Woman @ 36
What a piker Nixon was! Small potatoes, compared to today’s situation.
A great read, tho – thanks for the link!
I assume that the RNC server equipment, s/w and protocols are absolutely first rate. Ken Mehlman is exceptionally well-qualified in this area. The system he set up can tell within seconds whether the person presenting a ticket at a Karl Rove organized event anywhere in the United States has a Republican “R” after their name or not. Those without, don’t go within.
But, I suspect they treat their national personal database differently than they do e-mails among top party and government officials.
My guess is that they have an especially agressive Records Deletion Protocol, with the best disk scrubber/replacement protocol in the business. Google may save everything. The RNC probably saves as little as possible.
How did Mr Fielding’s clients fare in that Watergate matter?
Don’t hold your breath waiting for Fitzpatrick to get moving on deleted emails.
Back in February of 2006, I reported on his efforts to resist Scooter Libby’s demand for production of all the documents that Fitzgerald had reviewed, including highly classified documents. Scooter’s lawyers claimed to need the documents to fight charges of perjury and lying to the FBI.
A (New York) Daily News article at the time said, “Fitzgerald, who is fighting Libby’s request, said in a letter to Libby’s lawyers that many e-mails from Cheney’s office at the time of the Plame leak in 2003 have been deleted contrary to White House policy.”
You can read the post at “Nixon blamed his secretary, Rosemary Woods. Who will Cheney blame?”
Please visit the Schapira blog, “What we know so far …
“… and tell ’em Big Mitch sent ya!”
ATTENTION: ABOUT TODAY’S DOCUMENT DUMP
An interesting related note: a diarist over at Daily Kos is saying that the redacted information in pdf files released in today’s document dump is readable….
Could it be that our White House friends don’t know where to look? Ms. Perino announced this morning that the WH went through a conversation a couple of years ago from Lotus Notes to Exchange (or Microsoft Outlook). The two programs do not communicate well, and email in Lotus Notes has to be directly converted so that the user can review older email in the Outlook program. I suspect that the Lotus Notes archives still exist on the individual computers, but have to be opened by either the Lotus Notes program or a commercially available conversion program. If this was not properly done when the WH switched over, the people probably do not think they have the emails!
The RNC’s involvement raises a couple of issues. First, what are the terms of their “services” for the White House? The press has assumed that the e-mails are about party political business. Bush’s people may argue in the alternative that the RNC acted as an IT services provider, contending that the communications were about govt – not party – business and remain privileged.
Second, what are the penalties for violating the Presidential Records Act? If any specific ones are provided for, an admission about violating the Act may be the lesser evil. It may also intentionally contradict claims that the “mishandling” of e-mails was a) unintentional (”Ooops”), and b) was the direct result of bad advice from the President’s then chief lawyer, Alberto Gonzales.
Alberto is like the unlucky sailor in Run Silent, Run Deep, who has a torpedo fall on him. The boat captain convinces the Japanese destroyer that it’s made a kill by jettisoning the dead sailor via the torpedo tube. Alberto’s a gonner, says Rove. Load him up, like a Gitmo detainee confessing to every crime since Kennedy visited Dallas.
Does anyone here honestly believe Fitz has any interest in any of this?
Really, my question is a serious one. Do you honestly believe Fitz cares?
Fitz has been the savior of a certain group of blog readers and writers who still somehow believe that justice will be done in the Plame case.
Fitz has made his deal with the devil: he gets to keep his job so long as he stays out of Rove’s way, and doesn’t upset things too much. Fitz is, was, and always will be a Republican — he knows his career ain’t long if he goes too far.
This is not only an odious letter, but also a rather poorly written one. “It is hoped”?? Puhlease!
TMB–Thank you for the post. Isn’t Leahy right, though? People are cc’d left and right on these emails, and there is always a bunch of bcc’ing going on. Someone or two will forward that email to his friend in Idaho and on and on. There must be copies of emails from garrulous Bushies all over the place.
If so, isn’t the Lotus Notes/Outlook theory wide of the mark, even if it has technical merit on a computer by computer basis?
Or is Perino offering an explanation for how all those emails disappeared from all those computers at the same time?
These folks at the WH had better start talking, and if that new Press Sec can’t get her story straight, or just does not know anything then get someone who can answer.
It was hard from the Press Brief/Conf since they (CNN was only one I saw cover it live) cut away after about 3 questions to go back to Imus – but it seemed that the press does not know how to ask a decent question to save their life.
If the media, the WH, or anybody thinks that 5 million emails can be lost in the ether (some perhaps from the WH (I doubt it), and some from the RNC (quite unlikely) – and that people are going to let this slide they are insane.
It also seemed that they were saying that while the law was broken its all good since they have a new policy (Basically the same as the old one). However they are trying to push that people working in the WH who infuse politics into everything can just buy their own blackberry and then send whatever kind of messages they want and its all good.
SO does that mean someone can send a message from Air Force 1 and not have the content tracked? How about in the Dallas motorcade when Kennedy was killed? No, we pay for their meal ticket, and they are working for us. No f**king black ops email accounts for people like turd blossom.
The WH also seemed to imply that the retention was the responsibility of the individual – this is a joke. Yes they are the last line of defense and should not be pressing “delete” (Even though that won’t really delete the email from the server) when Congress/Justice/etc as them for email – but it is the responsibility of the organization that the communications are kept in an independent and auditable way.
Can you imagine if the FDA came to a company and asked for emails and the CEO was like – yeah no corporate oversight – sorry. Its called a Corporate-wide warning letter at the LEAST. Yeah lets have the head of Quality and Clinical have the ability to access the server as an admin and purge the emails (or recommend policy to purge the emails, or institute a policy that has not been validated to ensure it does not break the law or accidently delete required items).
And lets not even get started about the governement regulations on having a hidden system of record keeping. The FDA would start arresting people on the spot. Never mind what the CIA/FBI/etc would/should do in this situation.
I really can’t believe all these rules for all the people, but these jokers think they are above the law. Jesus, please. These are the most incompetent criminals I have caught a stinky wiff off. Bunch of freaking clueless management types, rich types, and bushie loyalists. I only hope their foot soldiers (people who actually have to do stuff) don’t just enable them.
Bah, rant done for now. I hope 24×7 Imus ends so people can catch up to the Green Zone Parliment cafe attack, and the biggest scandel out of the rats nest (these emails) yet (exception the war in Iraq, which this touches).
Hi Redd, my question for Mr. Fitz is – what is the current status of the investigation? Is it inactive, or has that status changed?
Apologies if this is a duplicate…
Has anyone asked Ken Mehlman for a comment yet (now that he’s no longer with the RNC)?
I am particularly struck by the change in protocol that was required, in order to keep Rove from deleting his own emails from the server.
Wouldn’t that new policy have been implemented during Mehlman’s tenure? (While he was trying to reach out to the African-American community… while Rove was trying to suppress their votes?)
Peterr @
10
As well as… the more recent “DeLay Corrolary of Over-reaching.”
(Disclosure: I am an expert on Murphy’s Law.)
Redd, I hate to correct you… but the term is go to the mat, not go to the mattress. Maybe this was covered already…
See link for explanation.
Pat_AlexVA @
236
There’s more than one “literary” allusion here. Check the FDL archives.
Bob in HI
Dumbwya @
218
We’re deep in EPU-land here, but this thread is more interesting to me than the more recent ones, so I’m still here.
NO, Fitz has NOT already “cleared” Rove. That is what Rove’s lawyer claimed, not what Fitzgerald has said. He has simply decided not to prosecute at this time. Just because he didn’t doesn’t mean he won’t. We don’t actually know the details, because the contents of Fitzpatrick’s letter to Rove has never been made public.
Bob in HI
This is apropos of nothing, but I have to say that Sen. Leahy’s expression these days reminds me of that of Santa Claus in the animated 1960’s classic “Rudolph the Rednose Reindeer”, particularly the part where Santa is trying to figure out what to do about the Island of Misfit Toys.
I’m not a lawyer, but my understanding of 18 USC 1519 is that it’s a new section added by the Sarbanes-Oxley Act of 2002, and it’s about preservation of archives, not about obstruction of justice.
(Section 1512 might apply, too, but 1512 requires proof of criminal intent, and I’m pretty sure that 1519 doesn’t require criminal intent.)
If 1519 does apply to the Presidential Records Act, that would make a prosecutor’s work easier, and Mr. Fielding’s work considerably trickier, as compared to o-o-j.
Regardless of prosecutorial action or inaction, today’s news reminds me of newspaper editorials like this :
Care and courtesy? I thought the customary level of care and courtesy when a criminal defendant attempts shit like this was to send in a SWAT team to seize the hard drives. Where are those forensics techs and why aren’t they on this yet?