the margins are busted

siun!

near zed!

(if our margins break, shouldn’t they skew left?)

word wrap too wide, just me?

I hate to spoilt the party but I’d be surprised if there were as many as 1 million people in the U.S. who give a ff about Iraqis.

Is it just me? Or are margins askew?

Hi, Siun shine…)

new format?

jeffreyw @
1

the margins are busted

And so am I.
Have a great weekend everyone.
Beer oclock in 10.

EPU’ed but the distortion goes on

Babbling Brooks on the NewsHour saying that Iraq now presents a mixed picture, unlike last year. [I thought you would appreciate that, Siun]

Brooks would be struck mute if he didn’t have his talking points.

He takes a shot at Edwards who says the surge has failed. “How does he know?” blah, blah, blah. Give them time, know in a few months. 4 years of failure is not apparently enough for Brooks.

Brooks is a total idiot.

McCain is a great man, impressive, etc. Sees young men and women who are suffering [and McCain’s answer is to keep them in harm’s way]. Yeah, that’s the ticket. Bobo doesn’t mention McCain’s Baghdad shopping trip. Goes back to Edwards saying the surge has failed is like he wants it to fail.

Brooks is a total waste of oxygen. Moronic doesn’t begin to cover it.

wow. just wow.

This Iraq boondoggle is horrific in so many ways.

How many Iraqi’s has the US had a claim about? Closer to the 20,000 Bush says or closer to 600,000 like the medical journal said?

we’re fixing margins now - give us a moment

Thanks Siun. Grisly stuff.

Margins are working now.. refresh the whole page, worked for me.

The worth of an Iraqi’s life? Little more than a Palestinian’s.

Where is everybody? Not a lot of comments.

SnarKassandra @ 15

Where is everybody? Not a lot of comments.

Countdown, maybe.

Why, these neo-cons are nearly as efficient as those who managed the Third Reich, and every bit as morally bankrupt.

barrelhse @ 17

Why, these neo-cons are nearly as efficient as those who managed the Third Reich, and every bit as morally bankrupt.

The Third Reich left a better paper trail…

When a man takes a farm from which another has been evicted, you must shun him on the roadside when you meet him, you must shun him in the streets of the town, you must shun him at the shop-counter, you must shun him at the fair and at the market-place and even in the house of worship, by leaving him severely alone, by putting him into a sort of moral Coventry, by isolating him from the rest of his kind, as if he were a leper of old, you must show him your detestation.”

For too long, Israel has been taking land from which Palestinians have been evicted, and detestation is spreading around the world. In Ireland, photos of Israeli bulldozers are placed beside those of landlords’ battering rams. Even a former U.S. president has recognized hafrada (”separation” in Hebrew) as apartheid. Disgust has reached such a level that even highly conservative institutions that normally try to avoid politics are driven to express concern.

One such body is Aosdana, the Irish state-sponsored academy of artists. Its annual general assembly on March 28 passed a resolution whose full text is: “Mindful of the August 4, 2006 call from Palestinian filmmakers, artists and cultural workers to end all cooperation with state-sponsored Israeli cultural events and institutions, Aosdana wishes to encourage Irish artists and cultural institutions to reflect deeply before engaging in any such cooperation, always bearing in mind the undeniable courage of those Israeli artists, writers and intellectuals who oppose their own government’s illegal policies towards the Palestinians.”

Although on the surface, this is a mild resolution, it is a boycott call in all but name. Its significance was not lost on Dr. Zion Evrony, the Israeli ambassador in Dublin. The very same day, he issued a press release that was replete with cliches that might have worked several decades ago, when Irish people were still unaware of the horrors that Israel has inflicted on the Palestinians.

What bothers me is the apparently utterly arbitrary nature of the awards. A family that is killed when coalition forces are “returning fire” after being fired upon is not “combat related.”

But a (supposedly) controlled detonation of a stockpile of pre-invasion munitions resulting in a shephard’s death is “combat related.”

This is an unmitigated horror.

The road to peace in the Middle East begins here: Pull out of Iraq and promote a Palestinian homeland.

I think the only way our country will ever regain any credibility in the short term is for justice to be served out of all of these deaths. By that, I mean turn this entire wad of butchers over to an international war crimes court and let the chips fall where they may. I’m not holding my breath. In the long term, we can never let something like this happen ever again. And again, I’m not holding my breath. These creatures will never just go away.

Who the fuck in their right mind would think Iraqi’s would have a positive imagine of what American has done for Iraq and it’s people. I am hard pressed to come up with anything positive about Iraq since I am not an oil exec. or war profiteer. My heart bleeds for Iraqi’s and any American who is unfortunate enough to have been part of george and tony’s not so excellent Iraq adventure.

They may be dead. But they died free men.

This makes me sick to my stomach. I guess it’s better than nothing to give families something, but: ugh.

allan_in_upstate @ 24

They may be dead. But they died free men.

Yeah, they were free to get their heads blown upside their asses, in a sewer and garbage filled street that had already been bombed back to the stone age.

yes, if free means cowering in your neighborhood, hoping to not be kidnapped or tortured for being the wrong creed, while caring for your family without being able to go to work or use electricity.

Then on top of it, you die just trying to make the best of it.

But at least you were “free”.

What a feckin idiot.

True, Iraqis are people, but do they have to be so brown?

Oh, Siun,

I’m so glad you used this one. When I read it at e&p this morning, found it just devestating. bushco also has placed just about as much value on the life of each American military person they sent on this murderous mission.

Allan_in_upstate … in fact, some of the paperwork on the claims actually says something about Living in a Free Iraq as if that is a justification …

p.lukasiak - the arbitrariness is astonishing … many times it looks as if anytime they have a report that US troops were in the area, the claim automatically becomes “combat related” … this includes children shot on the street walking home from school, car run over by Humvees, etc.

tbsa @ 23

Who the fuck in their right mind would think Iraqi’s would have a positive imagine of what American has done for Iraq and it’s people. I am hard pressed to come up with anything positive about Iraq since I am not an oil exec. or war profiteer. My heart bleeds for Iraqi’s and any American who is unfortunate enough to have been part of george and tony’s not so excellent Iraq adventure.

Do you remember, I think it was one of W’s rare news conferences within the last year, where some reporter asked him how he (W) felt about what was happening to Iraqi civilians as a result of U.S. invasion. W’s answer was something like: “I think they owe us a big debt of gratitude. We got rid of Saddam Hussein.” It was such a revealing insight into W’s mind. Most of us could never imagine thinking that way.

I don’t endorse all of this guy’s opinions, but he has studied the events in Afghanistan closely
http://www.cursor.org/stories/afghandead.htm
“the life of a dead Afghan is ‘worth’ only one-seven hundredth of that of a dead Chinese, one-ten thousandth of a dead Italian and one-thirty thousandth of a dead American — if her/his life is ‘worth’ $6,000,000 on average, as the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has calculated.”

…Thank you for taking on this subject, Siun. Our country has much to account for.

How about we use the same formula for compensating WTC victims’ families?

Oklahoma kiddo @
28

True, Iraqis are people, but do they have to be so brown?

…and on top or our oil?

…right out of Brazil

eCAHNomics @ 31

tbsa @ 23

Who the fuck in their right mind would think Iraqi’s would have a positive imagine of what American has done for Iraq and it’s people. I am hard pressed to come up with anything positive about Iraq since I am not an oil exec. or war profiteer. My heart bleeds for Iraqi’s and any American who is unfortunate enough to have been part of george and tony’s not so excellent Iraq adventure.

Do you remember, I think it was one of W’s rare news conferences within the last year, where some reporter asked him how he (W) felt about what was happening to Iraqi civilians as a result of U.S. invasion. W’s answer was something like: “I think they owe us a big debt of gratitude. We got rid of Saddam Hussein.” It was such a revealing insight into W’s mind. Most of us could never imagine thinking that way.

Yes, I remember… to bad someone doesn’t bring that type of freedom to bush, hypothetically speaking of course.

The valuations are horrifying … there’s a father given $500 for the death of his young son for example …

The ACLU talked about the number of reports of deaths at checkpoints - and there are more than a few where the troops after killing people in a car, reported that oops, the safety markers and signs had not been put up …

but more striking to me are the number of reports of simply random shooting by US troops - these are all turned down yet the reports are so frequent even in this tiny sample that was released to the ACLU - what’s in the reports that were not released?

note that each file on the site (and each of the above) links to the original documents so you can read the notes, etc … take the time to read these.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3g-yrjh58ms

via KO

The blowback from this war will outlast all of us.

Allan in Upstate - I found the reference:

Claim filed on behalf of [Redacted]’s car and his injured wife. [Redacted], a taxi driver, and wife were driving in a circle when a US Humvee hit their car. [Redacted] said that US soldiers stopped, took photos of the damage, and apologized. Finding: denied for lack of evidence of US involvement. Note: The letter denying the claim ends with “I wish you well in a Free Iraq”(this phrase is part of the form language and appears elsewhere).

Recall how some American Natives centuries ago addressed the invaders of the New World and their thirst for gold?

For many Iraqis, accepting any payment would be immoral - this would be seen as accepting a “blood price” for the killing.

If any nation attacks my country, kills my women and children and attempts to steal our resources, I will be brutal in my response.

Also from the NYT article:

But in and near combat zones in Iraq, a claim’s merit is quickly judged by an officer juggling dozens of new claims each week, said Jon E. Tracy, a former Army captain and lawyer who adjudicated Iraqi civilian claims in the Baghdad area from May 2003 through July 2004.

“I know plenty of lawyers who did not pay any condolences payments at all,” said Mr. Tracy, who is now a legal consultant for the Campaign for Innocent Victims in Conflict. “There was no reason for it. It was clearly not combat, and the victim was clearly innocent, all the facts are there, witness statements, but they wouldn’t pay them.”

Half of the claims he adjudicated were property damage claims from collisions with military vehicles, he said. Most fraudulent claims were property claims; few were for wrongful killings. “You just had to read people,” he said.

About a quarter of claims were for personal injury or deaths. In his year judging claims, Mr. Tracy said he paid 52 condolence payments, most for deaths. “I had three to four times more,” Mr. Tracy said, “I just didn’t have enough money.”

Nice posting Oklahmoa Kiddo - Scott Ritter has a scorching editorial on TruthDig that may interest you:

http://www.truthdig.com/report.....ubmission/

This site often posts such heart-rending posts like “How much is an Iraqi life worth?” but then fails to ever consider that the Washington Democrats are also very culpable for this situation - and by playing pattycake with their mandate to end the occupation and bring American troops home safe and alive, they eliminate chances of support from those who beleive that ‘all options’ are not on the table with regards to the next war, on Iran.

Why do so many trolls have severe defecits in reading comprehension?

Staggering, mindnumbing post. How flip, how cavalier the dismissal of so much innocent human life displayed on these files. Can’t speak.

sporkovat - I wouldn’t agree with your assumptions there. As FDL, we don’t have one uniform position on … well… most anything … but we do believe in accountability.

On specific policy, I can only speak for myself but I hold the Democrats responsible and find the maneuvering over the supplemental disgusting … the only answer is out now … and by that I mean completely out.

I’ve been impressed by Bill Richardson’s position demanding a total withdrawal with no residual troops - everyone else has all kinds of sneaky little exceptions and extra clauses that keep us in Iraq for … who knows how long… while pretending to support leaving.

One of the more despicable shams that the right wing noise machine tries to perpetrate on the ditto-headed populace is that those nefarious, dark-skinned “Moozlums” are subhuman and not worthy of our concern or compassion. I’ve heard almost all of them do it and it’s sickening.

(More from your “Friendly Neighborhood Limerician…”
Multiply EPU’d in reverse chron order; the first one’s new)
———————
(Vide siun’s #38 above:)

There was never a plan to come back
So Red, White and Blue turned to Black.
“Little Brown Ones” were killed
But our comfort was chilled:
“I wish you well in a Free Iraq.”

So, Rove found he couldn’t use E-mail,
‘Cause Marcy, our supersleuth female
Would run him to ground.
So, like an old hound
He’ll have to pass info by P-mail.

They strike in the Zone that is “Green.”
My guess is that Bush feels quite mean
As he sees his dream drain
While our troops feel the pain;
Looks to me like our “Surge” plan ain’t keen.

Imus: restless as a willow in a windstorm,
Imus: jumpy as puppet on a string;
Imus: glad as he can be
Imus: happy as you see –
“Imus-uperannuated windbag, and I’m FREE!”

Hail the Boy King, our Conquering Fuhrer!
His visions make our future clearer!
Eschew introspection
and make no connection
with the blood that you see in the mirror.

So Fredo’s our General Attorney
He’s about to go ‘way on a journey
‘Cause Congress’s foot
’s on his neck ’cause he put
Our Constitution onto a gurney.

TurdBlossom’s His nickname for Rove
Of great dirty tricks he’s a trove.
KKK-Karl
Is going to snarl
As his buns bake in Congress’s stove.

When Rudy embraced Bernie Kerik
Not e’n the most powerful cleric
Could save his election, or
Raise an erection;
To pull it out, they’ll need a derrick.

I take no comfort in raising this question: How much is an Iraqi life worth to Iraqis?

If we take the conservative figure of between 5 hundred and six hundred thousand Iraqi civilian deaths, as a result of the Bush invasion, are we then talking about genocide?

newtonusr @ 33

Oklahoma kiddo @
28

True, Iraqis are people, but do they have to be so brown?

…and on top or our oil?

…right out of Brazil

hmmm, I’ve been thinking a lot about that movie lately.

Siun @ 38

Allan in Upstate - I found the reference:

Claim filed on behalf of [Redacted]’s car and his injured wife. [Redacted], a taxi driver, and wife were driving in a circle when a US Humvee hit their car. [Redacted] said that US soldiers stopped, took photos of the damage, and apologized. Finding: denied for lack of evidence of US involvement. Note: The letter denying the claim ends with “I wish you well in a Free Iraq”(this phrase is part of the form language and appears elsewhere).

Ughh. This will haunt us for generations.

Larry Birnbaum … as much as our lives are worth to us … as much.

read this - which is from an IRIN report (IRIN is a UN news service):
The war made me lose my wife and children

And why are those Arabs so angry?

signed,
an angry Arab-American

I want my party to aggressively pursue getting out of Iraq, preventing an invasion of Iran and a just settlement to the Israeli-Palestinian situation. And I want the Democrats to go after Rove, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld and a bunch of others. I want justice. I want the rule of law to prevail on all elected officials. Regardless of political party.

Precisely Leila! precisely!

I’ll have to read your site … looks interesting!

Imagine how much the Iraqis must hate us.

And speaking of death, looks like we’re getting a brand new death chamber at San Quentin:

http://www.sacbee.com/111/story/154617.html

Thank you, Siun, for this post.

FYI, New thread

Leila @ 54

And why are those Arabs so angry?

signed,
an angry Arab-American

Because we’re (my government) killing Arab peoples, preparing to kill Persians and are colluding in the genocide of Palestinians. And stealing resources and destroying property.

OT or ON the surge

UPDATE: Did the administration plan to announce the tour extension after the veto so as to lay blame on the Democrats? Only to have that plan scrapped because of a leak? Duncan notes the strange timing and ThinkProgress highlights Dana Perino’s odd quasi-admission that President Bush didn’t know about his own policy. This would all seem to suggest that the plan to blame the tour extension on the Democrats was short-circuited by a DoD leak. And who’s politicizing the war and the troops?

Crooks & Liars

I had the same feeling as p lukasiak @ 20, and his comment made me look again at the description of the munition destruction.

The shepherd was 1000 (one thousand?!?) meters away? Excuse my rough conversion math, but with a meter some three inches longer than a yard, and 1760 yards in a mile, you mean this poor man was minding his and his family’s livelihood well over a half mile away and his death is deemed combat related?

This administration and its policies reach “unmitigated horror” with appalling regularity.

DOE seeks to explode 450 pounds of depleted uranium aboveground in SF Bay Area.

Pups, this is for real.

Uranium Dust

John Upton

Tracy Press Wednesday, 11 April 2007

Lawrence Livermore National Laboratories has applied for a permit to blow up as much as 450 pounds of depleted uranium in explosives tests west of Tracy this year. By John Upton

Proposed explosives tests upwind from Tracy will release as much as 450 pounds of radioactive depleted uranium dust into the air every year, according to an air pollution permit application filed Friday by Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory.

The blasts will annually release other elements into the air, some of which will also be radioactive, the application reads.

A permit allowing the blasts was approved with no public scrutiny by the San Joaquin Valley Air Pollution Control District in November, but was withdrawn after a community backlash.

Regulators in March instructed the weapons lab to reapply for the permit and to provide data that would allow it to analyze the health effects of radiation that would be released by the blasts.

The district does not normally regulate radioactive material, and it had not been informed by the lab that the blasts would be radioactive.

[snip - kjm. The rest of the excellent article is surreal.]

Our government seeks to detonate depleted uranium and other radioactive contaminants above ground close to a large urban area - and the waterworks that carry water to LA’s vast sprawl.

And the farmland which feeds LA and the nation.

The farmland and aqueducts lie east of the hills …the hills studded with wind turbines.

The winds blow hard there.

Due east.

Bon appetit.

The Bushies and their “security forces” are madmen bent on destroying us and our Republic.

….a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let the Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good…..

[snip]

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

Folks - I really do hope everyone takes the time to read those files … I will be digging further into them and reporting back.

It’s hard reading but the least we can do.

Kirk… That is just insane!

Kirk - looks like CA gets to share in some of that great life in a free iraq experience, eh?

Larry B asks an appropriate question — the same question that falls under the “local tribal customs, and local law” of the guidelines. Likewise, Siun’s answer @ 53 is appropriately direct and on target. Still, the effort by the military to at least address the local families’ losses must be appreciated.

This is in some ways a cultural issue — making amends to the family when it has been hurt. I don’t know enough of the culture to weigh the pros and cons of the dollar amounts, but it is a very complex cultural issue that does not translate easily to the US. I pity the folks on the scene who have to make these visits and deliver these payments.

The closest we come here in the US is insurance and legal settlements, based on our own local customs and local laws. There, sad to say, we often fall down spectacularly. The parallels to Katrina, for instance, are nightmarish. “Sorry, renters, your housing needs mean nothing when compared to home owners. Sorry, lower ninth ward, your streets and homes and businesses mean nothing when compared with the casinos and wealthier neighborhoods.”

This is a great, if painful, post. When a press secretary says she is speechless, that says something. Don’t let go of it, Siun.

Thanks Peterr..

I particularly appreciate your analogy to Katrina … brown people’s lives clearly have very little value in this new world.

I do know of a number of Iraqis who have refused the blood price offered by US troops who they report arrive with dollars and a tone as if to say that this is all soooo painful to them … not recognizing the horror and pain of the family who has lost their father, mother or child. And the files in the reports demonstrate a callousness that is hard to imagine… inexcusable.

Right margin still broken. Safari on an iMac.

Siun @ 65

Kirk - looks like CA gets to share in some of that great life in a free iraq experience, eh?

Ain’t freedom grand?

Eureka Springs @ 64

Kirk… That is just insane!

Yes ES, the plan and those at Livermore who support it are utterly mad.

How did they come to hate America’s soil, land, and water?

[BIG H/T to ICH - pointed me to Tracy story.

Apologies I deleted this H/T from the comment above]

ICH is a favored source here Kirk - I really rely on them.

Siun:

How the hell do you always manage to page me just after 3 A.M. when I’m packing? :-)

These are the postings you asked about from the old site(s):

What Was That We’re All Meant To Be “Pro” Again?

Gorilla’s Guides: What Was That We’re All Meant To Be “Pro” Again? Part 2

The “money quotes”

Note 4:

A particular point to note is no money is paid to Iraqi’s killed by insurgents. This was, to me at any rate one of the first indisputable indications that a cover up in Haditha had been attempted by the local commanders. The payments are made solely as a result of US actions and are made at the discretion of the local commander. In Haditha the US army first claimed that the 24 in Haditha had been killed by insurgents and then paid them. Clearly a HUGE discrepency between policy and what was done. The question immediately arose in my mind as to why the money was paid. The only reasonable explanation is as “hush money.”

Note 5:

Readers should also note that given that the payment for a death is US$2,500.00 payments in the order of US$19 million implies a massive number of civilian deaths many thousands of civilians deaths. Yet the admitted total of civilian deaths is considerably less than 1,000 - in the order of 600.

See also the last few made to the cross posting for that on the comments on my old personal blog. Specifically these three:

#

Can human beings stoop much lower than that?

Yes

Comment by markfromireland — June 16, 2006 @ 7:36 am | Edit This
#

Griffon it’s in line with their standard policy what else is their to say? That’s how they behaved in Lebanon that’s how they behave in Palestine.

That sort of thing is the invariable result of militarisation. Permit your society to become militarised and this is what happens.

What else is there to say?

Comment by markfromireland — June 16, 2006 @ 7:41 am | Edit This
#

Not much, mate

Comment by Griffon — June 16, 2006 @ 11:29 am | Edit This
#

MFI, fdl is on thread about Iraq. Hope you can join us.

“After all that’s already been said here please don’t misconstrue the brevity of my comment.

Those compensation figure mathematics have just floored me. I wonder if the enormous [and horrendous] implications of this revelation is sinking in as it should?

Comment by Richard — June 18, 2006 @ 7:50 pm | Edit This
#

Richard,

Glad to see you here. Yes it is horrific is it not? But it tallies very exactly with all the other data. There is only one conclusion I wish there was another but there is not.

Comment by dubhaltach — June 18, 2006 @ 9:09 pm | Edit This
#

Dubhaltach, it’s good to see you here, too. I hope your own work is working out well - or at any rate, as well as can be expected under the circumstances.

Comment by Richard — June 18, 2006 @ 10:28 pm | Edit This
#

Richard,

No I don’t think it is sinking in. I don’t think it’s sinking in at all.

Part of it is that a lot of people simply freeze like a rabbit in the headlights whenever even quite simple arithmetic is mentioned. And part of it is as you say the sheer enormity of it.

Floored?

Wasn’t it Stalin who said omething along the lines of once you kill more than a certain number it just becomes a statistic?

That’s what the US is doing in Iraq - has done for more than a decade now. Bombing, starving, bombing, bombarding, and just plain old-fashioned shooting ‘em.

What keeps on running through my mind what I can’t get out of mind is what Hannah Arendt said about the “banality of evil.” And it’s just so bloody disgusting.

If you can think of anyway of publicising it and getting it out there please go right ahead.”

poof

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marla_Ruzicka
link to information on Marla, (R.I.P) who worked to obtain compensation for victims.

These travesties are all part of the overall plan; part of the cost of Empire, don’t you know?

Here is a TNR profile of Bush/Cheney’s latest pet historian Andrew Roberts, some British fascist White Man’s Burden type who thinks concentration camps and massacres are an ideal way to run an empire. He’s egging them on.

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?p.....O3DnkA6i==

Oh and incidentally tell the ACLU to make an FOI request for the new guidleines for “Notes from the field” it’s been updated and they haven’t published the URI. Those JAG guidelines do come well within the FOI ambit

“Still, the effort by the military to at least address the local families’ losses must be appreciated.

This is in some ways a cultural issue — making amends to the family when it has been hurt. I don’t know enough of the culture to weigh the pros and cons of the dollar amounts, but it is a very complex cultural issue that does not translate easily to the US. I pity the folks on the scene who have to make these visits and deliver these payments.”

Sorry Peterr but I can’t agree. It is not complex the law is well understood and those payments are made to avoid admission of liability and to try to avoid future criminal prosecutions. The family is often threatened when the “offer they can’t refuse” is made. Such as happened in the case of Nabiha Nisaif Jassim

“The U.S. military claims the incident is being investigated.

The Haditha slaughter in which 24 Iraqis were killed is under investigation for the incident itself, and further for the cover-up, since the initial report given by the Marine Corps stated only that 15 civilian deaths were caused by a roadside bomb and fighting with insurgents.

In this case too, all signs point to a cover-up. “The area where they were killed by the Americans was completely unmarked,” the human rights investigator told IPS. A warning sign at the place was put up after the two women were killed, he said.

Like the Haditha massacre, this incident too should be investigated both for the killing and the cover-up, he said.

According to the investigator, the U.S. troops who killed the two women made no attempt to assist them after the shooting.

The next day Redam Jassim was summoned to a local police station. “The Americans offered me 5,000 dollars, and told me it wasn’t compensation but because of tradition,” Jassim told IPS. The U.S. military pays usually 2,500 dollars compensation for killing an Iraqi. Jassim says he refused the payment.

The U.S. military recently announced in a Defence Department report provided to Congress that it paid out 19 million dollars in compensation to Iraqis last year — half of which paid out by Marines in al-Anbar province west of Baghdad.

The military claimed the amount was paid in 600 separate incidents, but it is common knowledge in Iraq that the usual payout for a non-combat civilian death is 2,500 dollars.

A payment of 19 million dollars compensation at 2,500 dollars a person would suggest such killings in thousands.

Jassim told IPS and the human rights investigator that he was asked by the Americans’ translator to sign a paper written in English. The family and their relatives live in a village called al-Muta’assim, a 40-minute drive from the main hospital in Samarra.. Most people there, like the Jassims, neither speak nor read English.

After he signed the paper, Jassim was offered 2,500 dollars by U.S. soldiers, which he again refused.

“It is clear the Americans tried to cheat him as well as cover up their tracks at the same time,” the investigator told IPS. “Like in Haditha, this incident, along with so many others we cannot keep track of, requires a truly independent investigation, rather than one by the U.S. military.”

Phone calls and emails to the U.S.. military spokesperson in Baghdad have not been returned.”

From here.

There’s nothing even slightly complex about the legal situation. You don’t shoot civilians. I have very considerably less that zero sympathy for those who assess the payments and make them. The history of your country’s armed forces in Irak has been one of war crime after war crime after war crime I completely fail to see why anybody would have sympathy with those who commit them or those who try to bribe the victims.

Looking at the numbers at michaelmoore’s place for every person that died on 911 there have been at least 239 Iraqi deaths on shrubs hands. And at shrubs orders.

Babies, children, teens, son’s, daughters, mom’s, dad’s, aunts, uncles, grandmothers, grandfathers, friends, and neighbors. Dead, cold stone dead. Gone forever. Not to mention those imprisoned, tortured, kidnapped, raped, wounded, and homeless, and the devastation of their country. You think they won’t remember these years till they die? You think their loved ones won’t hate us for decades to come? I’d guess that the Iraqi’s would rather have the good ole days of Saddam back with their 719,593 Iraqi’s alive & their homeland intact. Shrub believes this will get him into his heaven? I don’t think so. What were you thinking, shrub? How could you be so cold and cruel?

This is NOT counting deaths in Afghanistan.

719,593 Iraqi deaths
2,997 US deaths on Sept 11

My head and heart hurts!

How can any one believe this occupation should continue until 2008? The first time I read Hillary said if she was elected president in 2008 she would pull our troops out of Iraq, I knew I would NEVER vote for her. She EXPECTS to be there in 2008. She took hope away with that statement and if she can’t hope to get our troops out of that blood bath sooner, then she does not deserve my vote.

An Iraqi life is worth whatever Blackwater says it is. Now lets go watch some football, basketball, baseball, Nascar, and give rich people some more tax cuts.

Information like this is the reason for the an anti-war protest happening two Mondays from now (April 23) in Bowling Green, Kentucky. It’s time to stop the madness in it’s tracks.

As quickly as this has all come together, it could be the beginning of a nationwide anti-war student movement, and a bold new Kentucky anti-war voice as well. Wouldn’t you like to be involved with that? We’ve had a week getting prepared, and we’re already hearing from people in other states and internationally!

Here is the press release:
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
April 6, 2007

Contact: Cody Aldridge, Student organizer, at cody. aldridge@ wku. edu.
Make Noise Where You Stand:
Anti-War Voices to be Heard at WKU

Bowling Green, KY - April 23, 2007
A growing group of students, faculty members, and community
members who are dissatisfied about the Iraq war are gearing up to make
their voices heard. The war in Iraq is seen as an illegal occupation
by many citizens and the international community. Students and
community members are invited to gather on the North lawn of the
Downing University Center (DUC) to demonstrate against the war on
Monday, April 23, 2007. The demonstration will begin at 12:00 pm with
no specific ending time. It will be a non-violent, peaceful
assembly. Our main intention is to raise local awareness of the
opposition to the war, as well as give a platform for community
members to let their voices be heard. The demonstration is being
sponsored not by an official organization but rather by a group of
concerned citizens uniting together.
The organizers feel it is time to let our government know that
we are unhappy with the current war situation. Rather than driving to
Washington D.C., we wish to make our voices heard from our own
community. “Our only hope today lies in our ability to recapture the
revolutionary spirit and go into a sometimes hostile world declaring
eternal hostility to poverty, racism, and militarism.” -Martin Luther
King, Jr.

For more information or for suggestions, email me privately, contact Cody Aldridge via email at cody.aldridge@wku.edu, or call 270-678-3108.

Please help and spread this information widely. Thank you!

pekiwa, bless you and Cody!

(and condolences in advance for the hate calls that so often come to organizers.

The more hate calls you get, the more influence you are creating….)

There are no specific guidelines to tell Army field officers judging the claims how to evaluate the cash value of a life taken, Major [Anne] Edgecomb [an army spokesperson] said. She said officers “consider the contributions the deceased made to those left behind and offer an award based on the facts, local tribal customs, and local law.”

I suspect another consideration is the ability of the victim’s family to fight back in ways not available to many Iraqis. (Note that the journalist’s family got a touch more money than did most other families.)

MfI - sorry to interrupt packing but wanted to make certain that the earlier coverage you did on precisely this issue was included here. Thank you for bringing them over … and for the additional information. I’ve had a note from the ACLU and will be discussing this with them further - and will pass along your suggestion.

Safe travels.

OT here (more on-topic for previous thread) picking through Saturday’s WaPo (parts just came online):

‘Delete’ Doesn’t Mean Disappear — Rob Pegoraro’s take on the missing emails.

And, also OT to previous thread, but Administration Seeks to Expand Surveillance Law — Bush wants to expand FISA to include more non-citizens and intercept foreign communications routed through the US.

The answer to the question “How much is a life worth?”, of course, is that each life is unique and irreplaceable and therefore is priceless or unpriceable. The real question everyone seems to dance around is how much are others willing to pay from their own pocket for the loss of that life? You cannot judge value for others, only for yourself. Not “What is a life worth?” but rather “What is a life worth to YOU?”

MFI

Good to see you drop by again here at the Lake.

My comments were in no way designed to minimize the shooting of civilians. What I was trying to say is that every culture tries to wrestle with putting a price on lives taken inappropriately. Here in the US, the closest equivalent is insurance settlements and legal settlements — and as my comparison to Katrina was intended to demonstrate, that is often less than equitable. Are payments made to shut people up? Yes, both here and there.

I’m a pastor, and I’ve been with folks who have been “collateral damage” in shootings. I’ve also visited with folks who’ve been designated with bringing official condolences. Neither the host nor the guest in these situations is terribly pleased with the event. Both pay a price. Different prices, to be sure — but I’d hate to pay either one myself.

I’ve also visited with folks who’ve been designated with bringing official condolences.

And that Peterr is where I’m going to stick to my guns - because the simple horrible fact is that there’s a BIG difference between condolences and behaving like some mafia strongman making “an offer you can’t refuse” and that, threatening the survivors, is what is routinely goes on.

That Peterrr is assisting in the cover up of a war crime.

Jesus…

Jesus would not be pleased.

Phoenix Woman @ 79

There are no specific guidelines to tell Army field officers judging the claims how to evaluate the cash value of a life taken, Major [Anne] Edgecomb [an army spokesperson] said. She said officers “consider the contributions the deceased made to those left behind and offer an award based on the facts, local tribal customs, and local law.”

That’s a lie yes there are. They’re the field notes I suggested the ACLU make an FOI on and also the rules dealing with CERPS.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 59

Leila @ 54

And why are those Arabs so angry?

signed,
an angry Arab-American

Because we’re (my government) killing Arab peoples, preparing to kill Persians and are colluding in the genocide of Palestinians. And stealing resources and destroying property.

In a world in which real genocide takes place with nauseating regularity — is taking place right now — and in which we ourselves are responsible for the deaths of orders of magnitude more Iraqis in the past 4 years than Palestinians have been killed in the past 60, this shoddy hyperbole will not do. Indeed in its implicit reference to the Holocaust, it comes very close to that old anti-Semitic smear Israel = Nazis. I suppose you imagine yourself to be a liberal, Oklahoma kiddo. You’re not.

And now you know what Marla Ruziki was really doing, and why it was so important, and why her loss (among other things) is so heart wrenching.

Please keep writing to the msm to cover this in full and write your Congressperson to stop this horrific bloodbath for oil and war profiteers.