zed?

Zed!

Couple of good excerpts from the current NYTimes article on the “email gap” story…

“This sounds like the administration’s version of the dog ate my homework,” said Senator Patrick J. Leahy, Democrat of Vermont and chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, which is investigating the dismissal of the prosecutors.

… and later … the Times dutifully takes stenography and helps the WH with the RNC’s obligatory “Clinton did it too!” trope…

In order to comply with the Hatch act, the Clinton administration also permitted certain officials to hold dual e-mail accounts. But Bush White House officials say theirs is the first administration to operate in the era of instant communications.

I hear the legal tank-treads clanking on either end of PA Ave…

In answer to Loo Hoo’s question last night (EPUd):

I would agree with other comments here that yes, much if not most of the data thought to have been deleted can be retrieved.

Additionally, typical emails travel many paths to get where they are going. Just because KKKarl ordered a mass delete doesn’t mean stuff isn’t still sitting out there somewhere.

I also agree that any usage of ‘electronic shredders’ leave a distinctive data pattern that will alert to such chicanery.

Gosh Kids, didn’t anyone else notice that Karl was in Chattanooga TN last week which is home to the company that handles the rogue accounts, people should have been faster on the acquisiton of the emails before the drives could be scrubbed, sharpen up folks.

Morning all. NPR just reported that they know of 22 WH employees who were using the RNC laptops and e-mail accounts (at this point, that’s what they know, anyway) — but that the WH isn’t releasing the names of who these people are. Interesting, eh?

Balrog @ 3

… I also agree that any usage of ‘electronic shredders’ leave a distinctive data pattern that will alert to such chicanery.

In analog form, that’s what we found on the 18.5Min gap tape. To find it in digital form would be equally damning (and wonderful for Truth, Justice and the American Way), true dat. :)

Weather coming – time to put the snow shovels back in the car – *groan* – character building. And people wonder why NewEnglanders are such characters!
Good morning, everyone.

It’s simple: it’s because political corruption has made its way to the heart of nearly every institution in this country.

The AP is no different. Remember all those hit pieces John Solomon put out against Democrats? That shows the AP’s true colors right there.

We need a Stalin-esque purge in this country.

Who wants to start the next revolution with me?

It’s hard to believe that this isn’t a major news story. Especially as it cries out COVER UP like the Nixon tapes erasure. I would say, also, that even though they may have erased all those emails, they were, presumably emails that had a recipient and/or sender, so by default, it would mean that there was a backup somewhere in the world.

OBTW last evening, Phoenix Woman (IIRC) said that Congress already has physical custody of Monica Goodling’s computer. Linky?

Maybe they’re bowing to the WH to get their photog released:

AP Photographer Still Held in Iraq (1yr later)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl…..93,00.html

S.O.S. – next time the MA firepups get together, would love to have you there.

for crying out loud, this is the missing 18 1/2 minutes all over again. Don’t they get that? Sheesh.

hey christy –

i watched the same non-reporting
unfold last night — so i agree with
you. . . but. . .

i think sen. leahy’s comment, now
reported as the top-line in this
morning’s new york times article
will definitely get the full-on-
media-cycle. . . that is, it very-
well captures, for every american with
a working frontal-lobe, what is wrong
with the “explanations” offered by
RNC flaks — it sounds like a lie:

“the. dog. ate. my. homework.”

more here on what happens when the
terms of a subpoena call for documents
that alberto conzales’ office now admits
it deleted and or destroyed. . .

btw, lovin’ my first zed!

Also, why does anyone believe Cheney has had an industrial shredder at the Naval Observatory since like October of last year?

These guys are covering their tracks.

Fortunately for us, however, the changes they’ve made to the criminal justice system will allow us to simply render them to a third party nation for torture and then send them to a “black site” prison somewhere where they can rot for eternity.

Let’s take it back, people.

How about instead of just talking about this stuff like a bunch of hens we actually start to organize and formulate a plan to take it (it being our country) back?

There are far more of us than there are of them.

Remember that.

and I wish Leahy and Conyers would stop acting like there is any good faith at the other end of Pennsylvania Ave. where are the subpoenas???

Never ascribe to malice what could best be ascribed to stupidity. The AP may be scrubbing the story because they just don’t realize the implications of missing emails (hard to believe, but potentially true). If the copy editor was born after the age of Nixon, s/he may just have no idea about the 18 minutes of tape gone missing, and so not be able to make the connection.

The more of this I type, the less credible it seems, but credibility is not a requirement for truth.

Is there any way we can gently suggest to the AP that they correct the gaffe?

Big news today. Bombs in the Parliament building in Iraq. Sure sounds like that surge is working. Add another lead weight to McCain’s drowning election campaign and Lieberman’s sunken treasure trove of Bushisms. Why is no one reporting all the good news in Iraq? Like the sale on rugs.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 5

Morning all. NPR just reported that they know of 22 WH employees who were using the RNC laptops and e-mail accounts (at this point, that’s what they know, anyway) — but that the WH isn’t releasing the names of who these people are. Interesting, eh?

begin. sarcasm.

. . .must be their all-important

p r i v a c y

the white house is (suddenly)
oh-so-concerned about. . .

end. sarcasm.

Mornin’ Christy,
I have been slammed with work (and had a major relapse last week and was in bed for 5 days) and so have really be mostly away from the lake.

Boy, do I miss you guys. But EW sent me an email with this link, so if it has not been posted in the threads before, I’m gonna leave it here now,

Christy, I don’t have time to follow this up we got some major doin’s goin on today in SDNY on FISA, the PAtriot Act and the NSA program, but this story should have some legs.

About two weeks ago, and if I remember where I saw it I will send you a link, there was also a story about proscution and indictmnt stats.

Garcia was down 32% (yep a third) and Mauskopf was down 18% (but they are going to make her fedderal judge after a performance like that!)

Anayway, I know you can do this story justice.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/4/11/15269/6356

This is up there with trying to fire Fitzgerald.

Christy Hardin Smith @
6

Morning all. NPR just reported that they know of 22 WH employees who were using the RNC laptops and e-mail accounts (at this point, that’s what they know, anyway) — but that the WH isn’t releasing the names of who these people are. Interesting, eh?

50 White House officials have used RNC accounts.

mmr @ 18

Never ascribe to malice what could best be ascribed to stupidity. The AP may be scrubbing the story because they just don’t realize the implications of missing emails (hard to believe, but potentially true). If the copy editor was born after the age of Nixon, s/he may just have no idea about the 18 minutes of tape gone missing, and so not be able to make the connection.

The more of this I type, the less credible it seems, but credibility is not a requirement for truth.

Is there any way we can gently suggest to the AP that they correct the gaffe?

I don’t buy it. I was born after the age of Nixon, and I learned about the 18 minute gap in high school.

btw, I updated above. Senate Judiciary Committee has a business meeting scheduled this morning for 10 am ET — and they have a vote on subpoenas on the USAtty firings on the agenda today. Just FYI.

Also, why is it that they didn’t even back up the stuff pre-2004? That means that all the evil they did during the Presidential election has vanished, they say. WTF? Just because they’re under investigation for the 2006 election doesn’t mean they shouldn’t get a free pass for all the shit they pulled in the 2004 election.

This is the m.o. of this Administration. Before you can get too excited about one scandal, another comes along, and the last one becomes “old news”. In Iraq, the motto was, “well, we’re there now, so what are we going to do about it”, as if the fact that they criminally invaded a sovereign nation for no reason had nothing to do with the fact that it’s a mess now. THIS HAS TO STOP.

Who runs the AP is it like the Moony times, Fox News etc are the orders to protect the whitehouse coimg from the top?

Christy Hardin Smith @ 23

btw, I updated above. Senate Judiciry Committee has a business meeting scheduled this morning for 10 am ET — and they have a vote on subpoenas on the USAtty firings on the agenda today. Just FYI.

THIS IS HUGE!

subpoenas from the senate as well?

COOOOOOL!!!

Morning Christie

Well the good news is that, despite the best efforts of the AP, the MSM is picking up the story (well except for Today, but we expected that, right?). I’ve seen stories on ABC and on CNN so far this morning, in addition to the Times piece.

However, Josh has another disturbing piece here at http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/002990.php

In his day job, Christian Adams writes legal briefs for the voting rights section of the Justice Department, a job that requires a nonpartisan approach.
Off the clock, Adams belongs to the Republican National Lawyers Association, a group that trains hundreds of Republican lawyers to monitor elections and pushes for confirmation of conservative nominees for federal judgeships.

Vice President Dick Cheney credited the 3,000-member association in 2005 with helping the Republicans win the previous two presidential elections. Last year, President Bush’s political adviser Karl Rove shared with the group his insights on winning elections in key battleground states. At a conference the association organized last month, speakers called the controversy over whether eight U.S. attorneys had been fired for partisan political reasons “farcical” and “ridiculous.”

According to the group’s Web site, Adams is one of dozens of Bush administration appointees or civil servants who are members, including at least 25 in the Justice Department, nine in the Department of Defense and others in the Labor and Commerce departments, the White House and the Office of Special Counsel, which oversees investigations into allegations of ethical misconduct by government employees.

I know its kind of early for a legal (as opposed to blogger) ethics panel, but to this old lawyer’s eyes, there appears to be a case of Conflict of Interest 101 here, unless, of course, we have now decided that representing the Republicans and representing the US Government are now one and the same.

mmr at 18 — I thought that was what I was doing by calling attention to it in the first place.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 29

mmr at 18 — I thought that was what I was doing by calling attention to it in the first place.

Is that all it would take? Is there no way to suggest corrections to the AP, some kind of formal process there?

The idea of being able to point out flaws in television news copy in an effective way makes me all tingly. If FDL has activated that superpower simply by posting on the front page, congratulations :)

dratty @ 28

I know its kind of early for a legal (as opposed to blogger) ethics panel, but to this old lawyer’s eyes, there appears to be a case of Conflict of Interest 101 here, unless, of course, we have now decided that representing the Republicans and representing the US Government are now one and the same.

(bold mine)
Look at the way Bush “negotiates” with “enemy” states. He says “give me what I want, then we’ll negotiate.” He said the same thing to the Democrats on the war funding bill this week. He sees Dems as enemies to this country,

hopefully the broadcast people read the newspaper – the LA Times has the story at the top of the page…

it never occurred to me that the AP was so fishy…

coffee anyone?

charlie wilson @ 4

Gosh Kids, didn’t anyone else notice that Karl was in Chattanooga TN last week which is home to the company that handles the rogue accounts, people should have been faster on the acquisiton of the emails before the drives could be scrubbed, sharpen up folks.

Crap. Oh well, if KKKarl’s been there, more levels in this onion — both centrally and peripherally. There’s the Total Information Program, wherein the NSA is said to now be storing ALL Internet traffic through ALL ISPs; hope someone there can whistleblow those bits towards Congress. Plus on the periphery of the onion, there’s gotta be some lower-level factotum on the WH staff who won’t have the time or the balls to delete something that will serve nicely as a “Smoking Gun” redux. Calling the shade of Rose Mary Woods… Alexander Butterfield? You around in newer form? :)
————
Kathryn in MA @ 12

S.O.S. – next time the MA firepups get together, would love to have you there.

Sounds fun. I’ll be there, with bells on! Tnx :)
————
TiredFed @ 13

for crying out loud, this is the missing 18 1/2 minutes all over again. Don’t they get that? Sheesh.

Whom the Gods would destroy, they first afflict with “Master of the Universe” syndrome. Sic Semper, from the back alley to the corridors of power. The perps never even think that they could be caught and made to PAY. As it was in 1973, and I hope thus may it be again for us in 2007, may they be made to PAY again. I pray for the Constitution’s sake.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 24

btw, I updated above. Senate Judiciary Committee has a business meeting scheduled this morning for 10 am ET — and they have a vote on subpoenas on the USAtty firings on the agenda today. Just FYI.

woo hoo. let’s hope these subpoenas come with FBI agents attached!

This story is not on the front pages of CNN, MSNBC, WAPO, NYT websites. If it’s not on the front pages, it doesn’t exist to most people.

Good Morning Christy and Firedogs,

would that be the same AP that just yesterday said this about the growing DOJ scandal -

There are a couple of problems: The evidence is largely circumstantial, and the proof is missing.

silly hippies, why don’t you ever wanna talk about voter fraud ? :)

link

Morning pups. Looks like another turbulent day on the Potomac. Haven’t seen this much action since the last months of Nixon. This story has the legs of a centipede.

On another topic re: wingnuts. We had a visitor to our fair city yesterday and after his talk we were shooting breeze at the faculty club onthe subject of a Canadian election. Our visitor asked me about the Harper Government, and I explained that it was a very washed-out version of the Bush administration whose appeal was mainly to the same constituency of fearful paranoids that make up the American 30 percenters. And my friend and his wife nodded and said, yes, we understand, as if in sadness. My wingnut friend was there, and he turned red as a beet. I felt a bit sorry for him, and will have to apologise later today. But the remark and especially the response hit a very sore point. They are fearful paranoids.

Now, back to the main event. We are moving towards Impeachment.

OT- Kurt Vonnegut has died.
http://www.latimes.com/la-me-v…..d-homepage

charlie wilson -
nice catch! count me among those who find that visit wildly coincidental

lots of talk in the threads last night about SmarTech and their connections to everything from Bush’s PAC to Ohio Voting

Can anyone say Forensic Computer Scientist?

C’mon, a good data recovery specialist could probably retrieve a good portion of those emails.

If the servers have a massive array of storage, those emails might not have been lost at all.

A good investigator could also document the state of deletion and if it was manually or automatically done.

C’mon Congress dont fall for the 8 minute trap. Subpeona and impound the servers.

And of course the AP article mentions the Hatch Act, but not the various Acts concerning preservation of official government records. The AP has really been on a roll recently; their coverage of SyriaGate led the pack.

I certainly agree that this is potentially huge and just another sleazy Bush Administration cover up.

But I’m a lot less willing to blame the AP for taking part in some kind of plot to surpress the news.

There are a lot of reasons important information could have been left out of a story like this not the least of which is that the people at the desk (the editors) weren’t comfortable with the information they had, wanted more details and cut a section they believed was weak in factual back-up. Or, the reporter on the story might have just missed it or didn’t feel he had enough to publish yet.

From a competitive standpoint, I’m pretty sure that when a bureau chief or executive editor for the AP gets up in the morning, sees coverage in the New York Times or Washington Post that his guys didn’t get, he’s going to say:

“Why don’t we have this? Where are we on this story?”

I guess I’m not ready to ascribe to malice what may be attributable to incompetence or stupidity.

Moderators,
Why is my comment awaiting moderation?

I have no doubt that Waxman and Leahy will get this story on the front pages. Patience is in order. There is a lot going on, including a significant bombing in the Green Zone in Iraq.

OT – This is IN the GREEN ZONE:

Blast kills 2 in Iraqi parliament building
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/…..index.html

There has to be a backup somewhere that hasn’t been erased I mean how many people have had a computer meltdown for various reasons? Every comptuter guy I met has told me to back up everything PERSONALLY. So are we to believe that WH employees don’t back up their files on disk, especially when it could mean your job if the president doesn’t have his State of Union speech ready in time because your computer died? Are we to belive that the WH employees all decided to erase their personal backups at the same time. Are we to believe that nobody in this whitehouse is going to write a book someday? Probably about this very episode, and what writter throws away his notes? Does the subpenoa cover personal copies or any and all copies of the information we want? I’m guessing karl is looking for loopholes to avoid giving us the documents.

oddball at 43 — It’s free — refresh your screen. And it is probably time for another one of my “please don’t be paranoid if the SPAM filter picks your comment” comments. Truly, sometimes it is a word that has been frequently used in SPAM recently that is a trigger. And there is a good reason that we don’t publish the words — because we don’t want to have spammers reconfigure their dreck to end-run the filtering software.

The lovely folks who moderate for us are volunteers. They get to comments as quickly as they can and, honestly as someone who pitches in to help with that when I’m on, it only takes a minute or two. Patience is truly a virtue — we aren’t trying to keep you from the conversation, merely tryng to keep the comments conversational. Thanks. (And a huge thank you to our wonderful mods for the wonderful job that they do!)

just wrote msnbc and asked why I couldn’t find the story on their website.

Knut Wicksell @ 36

… the same constituency of fearful paranoids that make up the American 30 percenters. …

Another problem we face (and I face it in my own immediate family) is what a wiser head dubbed “normaloia,” which is the unreasonable belief that All Is OK despite overwhelming evidence that They Are Out To Get Us.

And yep Knut, I agree that we are moving towards impeachment. With every new legal outrage from the WH and every new awful death in Iraq, the political force mounts ineluctably on more and more Republicans to peel off from Bush’s supermajority in Congress.

They’ll do it to save their political careers, to save what’s left of their party, to save the nation… I don’t care at this point.

And when that happens (e.g., when the Boy King loses a crucial vote by a margin he cannot veto) the Dogs of Impeachment will be let loose throughout the land and all the inhabitants thereof. It’s coming, friends… just hold on a bit more… the normaloids are losing their grip…

Good morning Christy, pups,

You know the saying it’s five o’clock somewhere? Well that’s here. But our working day isn’t over yet. Off to check the recovery of this morning’s surgery, on a premie that was born 2 days ago and weighs 4 pounds.

Speaking of making tiny changes that have profound consequences.

Hey (((((looseheadprop))))) hope you’re feeling better soon.

Check out Josh Marshall’s post late last night about Rove’s push for “voter fraud” enforcement. It included some horror stories about the effects on some people’s lives. Of course, such collateral damage to “little people” doesn’t count.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c…..013581.php

Minnesotachuck at 51 — That was based on a McClatchy News story, I believe. And it is HUGE news in terms of intersection between the political shop at the WH and legal policy. McClatchy has been fantastic on this story.

So I read earlier today 50 WH employees use “the system” and NPR says “they know of 22″…………..wtf! Where are these twits pulling the figures from and *who* has the bloody list? And subpoena the whole lot of ‘em.

And speaking of subpoenas, here’s hoping someone who has more faith than I believes they are *ever* gonna *start* issuing the freaking things vs. *voting* on them.

Also, is everybody getting as thoroughly sick of Dick Gregory as I am? He subbed for Imus this morning and, best I can tell, is still making excuses for his buddy, I-*ss.

Sorry, gang…….thus endeth the rant. ;-(

P.S. – Christy – that is quite the interesting linky lhp provided.

This lost e-mails story is not to be believed.

These e-mails were subject to records retentions policies that would have required redundant servers, storage and an audit process demonstrating the data to be secure.

Without that level of safeguard the whole enterprise was illeagal.

The emails, by their nature of being emails, were backed up when they were sent/received. Someone, somewhere has a copy. Unless, they were also instructed to delete them. In which case, there may be a great email floating around somewhere saying “Please delete all RNC emails relating to the firing of US attorneys” or “Please delete all emails from George Bush and/or Karl Rove relating to US attorneys, Abramoff, torture, Halliburton, Swiftboat campaign, Christian Coalition, Enron/Bush deep dish fund, Exxon/Alaska favor trading, EPA coersion, and best just delete anything coming from Cheney, who doesn’t really “get” email.

is the senate judiciary committee business meeting this morning a closed meeting? i don’t see it listed as being webcast (audio or video) anywhere (the committee website, capitol hearings,…)?

skeptik @ 54

This lost e-mails story is not to be believed.

These e-mails were subject to records retentions policies that would have required redundant servers, storage and an audit process demonstrating the data to be secure.

Without that level of safeguard the whole enterprise was illeagal.

When has the law ever stopped them before?

Why do I have this strange feeling that our beloved Fitz is going to factor into this at some point down the road? Is it just wishful thinking that he is the gatekeeper (read: email keeper).

egregious @ 49

… (I’m) Off to check the recovery of this morning’s surgery, on a premie that was born 2 days ago and weighs 4 pounds. …

Bless you (and the surgeons) for your good work! This strikes a chord in me ‘cuz my unborn grandson is said to be about 6 or more pounds by now and will come to full term in about a week. Hope things turn out healthily for the preemie in your egregiously :) good care.

I’ve noticed that a lot (maybe most) of republicans I know seem to have their entire egos wrapped up in the republican party. If you even mildly criticize a republican policy or legislator, no matter what the policy is or who the legislator is, they take it as a very personal attack on them as human beings. Teeth clench, faces turn beet red & grimace, stuttering ensues, one would think you had deeply insulted their grandmothers. I don’t see Dems giving up their entire souls like that.

kdh22 @ 58

Why do I have this strange feeling that our beloved Fitz is going to factor into this at some point down the road? Is it just wishful thinking that he is the gatekeeper (read: email keeper).

What was Fitz’s statement during the Libby trial referring to e-mails?

Can “sealed vs. sealed” ever be unsealed?

selise at 56 — They generally are not closed meetings, but they aren’t usually bit news producing ones either because it is Senators and staff discussing various notes on various bills that may or may not need oversight by the Committee. I’ve seen them broadcast on C-Span on occasion (the last was the hearing where they were all debating the subpoena authorization the last time), but I have no idea whether this one will be broadcast or not. Will try and give the Committee a call and see if I can find out, though.

GeorgeSimian @ 55

The emails, by their nature of being emails, were backed up when they were sent/received. Someone, somewhere has a copy. Unless, they were also instructed to delete them. In which case, there may be a great email floating around somewhere saying “Please delete all RNC emails relating to the firing of US attorneys” or “Please delete all emails from George Bush and/or Karl Rove relating to US attorneys, Abramoff, torture, Halliburton, Swiftboat campaign, Christian Coalition, Enron/Bush deep dish fund, Exxon/Alaska favor trading, EPA coersion, and best just delete anything coming from Cheney, who doesn’t really “get” email.

i’d love to know how the rnc mail servers were set up… if they were really paranoid couldn’t it be with no local storage and everything purged after something like 60 days?

Kathleen at 61 — You know, I have seen no evidence at all that Sealed v. Sealed has anything whatsoever to do with Fitz. Other than a few speculative stories that were out when the case first appeared on the docket, there has been absolutely nothing that connects that case definitively with Fitzgerald’s investigation. Have you seen something definitive or is that just speculation?

On Sunday, Atrios caught a similar revision of a WaPo story, that time to get bring the story in line with anti-Iran propaganda.

It appears that the right wing has people that watch news stories as they come out, and contact editors with complaints and suggested revision if the story has any element that is out of synch with the current right-wing spin. The story behind these revisions would be very interesting.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 62

thank you!

fyi – for anyone who missed yesterday’s senate judiciary committee hearing, i made an audio recording – you can DL the mp3 here (bottom of the page)

Good Morning All. Besides the obvious Obstruction of Justice/Congress violation. Are there clear penalties for violating the Records Retention Act? What I find to be most interesting is that all of the records prior to 2004 were deleted every 30 days. All the correspondence leading up to the War is missing now because the WH did not have a “clear policy” in place. I wonder how much incompetence the GOP is willing to accept? I guess enough to incompetence to become irrelevant.

JF @
57

skeptik @ 54

This lost e-mails story is not to be believed.

These e-mails were subject to records retentions policies that would have required redundant servers, storage and an audit process demonstrating the data to be secure.

Without that level of safeguard the whole enterprise was illeagal.

When has the law ever stopped them before?

Just sayin that you don’t have to go looking after impropriety with USAs when there is plain evidence of a National Security crime.

ThinkProgress had the disappeared e-mail story (from LA Times) posted late last night. Is someone sleeping on the night shift? ;)

Meanwhile, I’m loving the irony here:

Hatch Act, born of Nixon/Watergate, in effect created the separated political/offical document streams, which may in the end expose a Nixon/Watergate redux.

footnote: Karl Rove is reported to have conducted as much as 95% of his work on the RNC system. That’s a ton of communications, and all it really takes is one letter.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 6

Morning all. NPR just reported that they know of 22 WH employees who were using the RNC laptops and e-mail accounts (at this point, that’s what they know, anyway) — but that the WH isn’t releasing the names of who these people are. Interesting, eh?

Any guesses who they might be? Would it include any “old friends” of ours?

I’ve been doing a lot of thinking about this story.

In one respect, I think they’ve given the Dems a gift. Prior to the “missing” e-mails, the prosecutor story was horrifying and fascinating BUT squishy. There were a number of bridges to cross…a number of “IFs” that had to occur for their to be actionable conduct.

Now, however, there is EVERY indication that the White House thugs took deliberate steps to circumvent the Records Act. (There’s a load of information here: http://www.archives.gov/records-mgmt/) By violating the act by setting up their secret system and then further violating the act by destroying the government records through deletion or erasure of their own files, they’ve given Waxman, and every other Congressional investigator, a wide open path through the White House doors.

I believe that this gives the Congressionals very colorable claims that White House personnel (KKKarl) transgressed both the Records Act and obstructed justice. AND, what’s more, at least the sparse write-ups so far indicate that the WH admits that there were violations.

The next question, of course, is what kind of play this is getting or will get. American Idol and Imus seem to be much more important, as does (for at least 15 minutes) the Iraq bombings. The Congressionals seem to be quite quiet about it, so far, although Waxman’s quotes in the Times are very strong and very savvy. He’s SO all over this story:

Representative Henry A. Waxman, the California Democrat who is chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, has asked the White House to produce records relating to nongovernment e-mail accounts by April 18. But a Democratic aide, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the White House told Mr. Waxman’s committee on Wednesday that it would not be able to comply fully.

Mr. Waxman issued a brief statement: “This is a remarkable admission that raises serious legal and security issues. The White House has an obligation to disclose all the information it has.”

GeorgeSimian @ 55

The emails, by their nature of being emails, were backed up when they were sent/received. Someone, somewhere has a copy. Unless, they were also instructed to delete them. In which case, there may be a great email floating around somewhere saying “Please delete all RNC emails relating to the firing of US attorneys” or “Please delete all emails from George Bush and/or Karl Rove relating to US attorneys, Abramoff, torture, Halliburton, Swiftboat campaign, Christian Coalition, Enron/Bush deep dish fund, Exxon/Alaska favor trading, EPA coersion, and best just delete anything coming from Cheney, who doesn’t really “get” email.

That would be great if someone forgot to delete a memo saying something to that effect.

and on a related note -

MSNBC Breaking – Ohio Man indicted on Terror Charges

Christopher Paul, 43, of Columbus, trained with al-Qaida in the early 1990s overseas and told al-Qaida members in Pakistan and Afghanistan that he was dedicated to committing violent jihad, the indictment issued Wednesday by a federal grand jury said.

the story is via AP

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18073689/

don’t know which of these 2 is Prosec.

- Gregory G. Lockhart
United States Attorney – Southern District

Gregory A. White
United States Attorney – Northern District

but, but, but . . .there was no Al Quaida in the early 9o’s – most, if not all, were CIA Trained Mujahadeen

jeebus

BBC’s Alan Johnston’s abduction is a tragedy. I have always thought Alans coverage in the middle east (I/P conflict) has always been fair and balanced. Either Israeli or Palestinian radicals would have interest in taking him out.

I believe more journalist have been kidnapped and killed in the Iraq war than any other war. MANY JOURNALIST ARE PUTTING THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE SO THAT WE CAN GET THE STORY. FREE FREE ALAN !

you can go to BBC’s website and let them know what you think and find your way to a few petitions. Could not link the petition, but here is the way to the petition http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/tal…..518185.stm

I thought lawyers were trained to save their emails as they help provide proof of billable hours? Are we to believe that nobody at the Justice Dept is a lawyer who by training and habit does save their emails, are we to believe that nobody at Justice has saved emails just in case they end up being the next Scapegoat/Scooter. If the boss wants me to do something that might get ME in trouble I know that I would be saving those emails in particular, just in case!

if one were looking for criminal or terrorist activity on the net (oh, say, in email traffic), where would one look?egregious @ 50

Good morning Christy, pups,

You know the saying it’s five o’clock somewhere? Well that’s here. But our working day isn’t over yet. Off to check the recovery of this morning’s surgery, on a premie that was born 2 days ago and weighs 4 pounds.

Speaking of making tiny changes that have profound consequences.

Hey (((((looseheadprop))))) hope you’re feeling better soon.

back in the USSR eh? dont work too hard (yeah right). best wishes for all your patients (we know they already have the best care).

In the Late Nite thread, after it was noted that the Bush Administration has gone especially hard at corrupting the parts of government that might investigate them, someone suggested that the Archivist’s staff ought to be involved. Unfortunately, the Archivist is maybe the first position that got the US Attorney treatment, back in 2004 (hmmm, there’s that date again…) They pushed out the incumbent archivist before his term was up, giving no reason, and appointed a controversial conservative historian who is sympathetic to their “penchant for secrecy.”

No help there.

Or maybe even a tangle of post it notes the kind that get stuck to the sides of the drawers of the desk . . .

Exactly what is it going to take for a special prosecutor to be appointed to investigate the myriad of nefarious activities of the DOJ/White House in this whole mess????

Kathryn in MA @ 13

S.O.S. – next time the MA firepups get together, would love to have you there.

OT-> Another Massachusetts firedog here!!!

hey Christy,

is this applicable ? am a little thrown by the term “Antitrust Civil Process Act”

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 73 > 1505

1505. Obstruction of proceedings before departments, agencies, and committees

Whoever, with intent to avoid, evade, prevent, or obstruct compliance, in whole or in part, with any civil investigative demand duly and properly made under the Antitrust Civil Process Act, willfully withholds, misrepresents, removes from any place, conceals, covers up, destroys, mutilates, alters, or by other means falsifies any documentary material, answers to written interrogatories, or oral testimony, which is the subject of such demand; or attempts to do so or solicits another to do so; or
Whoever corruptly, or by threats or force, or by any threatening letter or communication influences, obstructs, or impedes or endeavors to influence, obstruct, or impede the due and proper administration of the law under which any pending proceeding is being had before any department or agency of the United States, or the due and proper exercise of the power of inquiry under which any inquiry or investigation is being had by either House, or any committee of either House or any joint committee of the Congress—
Shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years or, if the offense involves international or domestic terrorism (as defined in section 2331), imprisoned not more than 8 years, or both

GeorgeSimian @ 55

The emails, by their nature of being emails, were backed up when they were sent/received. Someone, somewhere has a copy. Unless, they were also instructed to delete them. In which case, there may be a great email floating around somewhere saying “Please delete all RNC emails relating to the firing of US attorneys” or “Please delete all emails from George Bush and/or Karl Rove relating to US attorneys, Abramoff, torture, Halliburton, Swiftboat campaign, Christian Coalition, Enron/Bush deep dish fund, Exxon/Alaska favor trading, EPA coersion, and best just delete anything coming from Cheney, who doesn’t really “get” email.

All organizations have written backup policies. The first order of business should have been to subpoena all RNC backup disks and tapes.
If there was a deviation in this case, it would almost surely indicate a deliberate attempt to block justice.

The first order of business should have been to subpoena all RNC backup disks and tapes, plus a copy of the backup policy, including the backup-retention policy.

Disk space is now so inexpensive that there is no longer any economic/technical reason for an organization to get rid of email.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 64

Kathleen at 61 — You know, I have seen no evidence at all that Sealed v. Sealed has anything whatsoever to do with Fitz. Other than a few speculative stories that were out when the case first appeared on the docket, there has been absolutely nothing that connects that case definitively with Fitzgerald’s investigation. Have you seen something definitive or is that just speculation?

I did find something yesterday that connected it to Fitz, I had never read this theory until yesterday. I posted it and will look for it again. The theory was that Gonzales (may have been McNulty) had come in at the last moment and trumped Fitz’s indictment for Rove. I will look for that tidbit!

selise — Spoke to a Judiciary Committee staffer who says that the hearing is supposed to be webcast on the Judiciary Committee website. However, they have had a litle tech snafu which hopefully is resolved, so just in case there is a glitch, they are working on it. Just FYI.

things come undone @ 75

I thought lawyers were trained to save their emails as they help provide proof of billable hours? Are we to believe that nobody at the Justice Dept is a lawyer who by training and habit does save their emails, are we to believe that nobody at Justice has saved emails just in case they end up being the next Scapegoat/Scooter. If the boss wants me to do something that might get ME in trouble I know that I would be saving those emails in particular, just in case!

Snark alert….apparently you are not wise to the ways of “billable hours.” Lawyers don’t need any stinkin’ proof of billable hours! No offense to the exceptional attorneys here at FDL.

cbl @ 73

and on a related note -

MSNBC Breaking – Ohio Man indicted on Terror Charges

I wonder how long he was held before he “confessed.”

Christy here is one of the articles will look for more

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/5/21/184052/881

I don’t think there’s an “Ooops” defense to serial violations of the Presidential Records Act. “Mishandling” and “inadvertent” may be the emotional seed the White House’s announcement wants to plant; “The Bad Seed” would probably be a closer analogy.

There seems nothing inadvertent about the White House’s duplicitous comms set-up, the number of people using it, their place at the top of the White House pack, or the apparent lack of an security and retention protocol or management of that protocol.

If Ken Mehlman – Harvard Law grad, computer guru, and former head of the RNC – can devise a national computer system that verifies your Republican voting status as fast as MasterCard can approve a salesman’s online purchase of Vi*gra, then the RNC system at the White House does precisely what it was intended to do.

Wigwam @
65

On Sunday, Atrios caught a similar revision of a WaPo story, that time to get bring the story in line with anti-Iran propaganda.

It appears that the right wing has people that watch news stories as they come out, and contact editors with complaints and suggested revision if the story has any element that is out of synch with the current right-wing spin. The story behind these revisions would be very interesting.

Remember the infamous ‘We have Victoria Toensing on the line’ moment with Wolf Blitzer.

It’s like there is a boiler room somewhere chock full of Bush operatives waiting to pounce on a story they deem wrong.

-GSD

LA Times editorial from yesterday commentted on the e-mails: LA Times Editorial

Send RNC emails to Congress

IT’S A QUESTION that, until recently, was of interest only to Karl Rove and his political minions in the Bush administration: When you want some U.S. attorneys fired, which e-mail account do you use — your White House address (because it’s official business) or your Republican National Committee address (because you want them fired for political reasons)?

Now, however, Congress is interested. Because when it comes to cooperating with legitimate congressional investigations, it doesn’t matter whether relevant e-mails lurk in the “Sent Messages” file of the White House or of the Grand Old Party. They should be turned over.

In 2001, the RNC bestowed computers and other equipment on Rove and other presidential aides in an apparent attempt to avoid the questions that dogged the Clinton administration about the use of government resources for partisan political purposes. Now Democratic critics of the Bush administration say the electronic back channel was used to transact government business without creating a historical record. Rep. Henry A. Waxman (D-Los Angeles), chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, said the dual system may violate the Presidential Records Act.

…

mui @ 70

Christy Hardin Smith @ 6

Morning all. NPR just reported that they know of 22 WH employees who were using the RNC laptops and e-mail accounts (at this point, that’s what they know, anyway) — but that the WH isn’t releasing the names of who these people are. Interesting, eh?

Any guesses who they might be? Would it include any “old friends” of ours?

at about the time the senate judiciary
committee is voting to send out subpoenas,
i’ll be on a sixth-grade field trip bus,
headed to the museum with son no.2. . .

i’ll be off the grid all day. . . so, i’ll trust
that this group will bring the story home,
and with vibrant style, to boot. . .

ya’ think the school bus has wi-fi?

Christy can “Sealed vs. Sealed” ever be unsealed?

mayan @ 79

Kathryn in MA @ 13

S.O.S. – next time the MA firepups get together, would love to have you there.

OT-> Another Massachusetts firedog here!!!

if you join the stateproject-massachussetts googlegroup, you can send us email!

there’s not a lot of email on the list… it is a good way to keep in touch and be able to contact eachother.

Christy Hardin Smith @
47

oddball at 43 — It’s free — refresh your screen. And it is probably time for another one of my “please don’t be paranoid if the SPAM filter picks your comment” comments. Truly, sometimes it is a word that has been frequently used in SPAM recently that is a trigger. And there is a good reason that we don’t publish the words — because we don’t want to have spammers reconfigure their dreck to end-run the filtering software.

The lovely folks who moderate for us are volunteers. They get to comments as quickly as they can and, honestly as someone who pitches in to help with that when I’m on, it only takes a minute or two. Patience is truly a virtue — we aren’t trying to keep you from the conversation, merely tryng to keep the comments conversational. Thanks. (And a huge thank you to our wonderful mods for the wonderful job that they do!)

I just want to take a second to thank the moderators. They do a fantastic job of keeping the site civil and readable. Oh, and if I happen to mention that a comment is in moderation, it’s not a complaint.

Wigwam @ 81

GeorgeSimian @ 55
The first order of business should have been to subpoena all RNC backup disks and tapes, plus a copy of the backup policy, including the backup-retention policy.

It’s also standard practice to retain offsite backups, taken out on a weekly, monthly or quarterly basis.

Here he goes again.

From today’s Robert Novak column:

Seated at the Washington Gridiron Club dinner on March 31, I was interrupted by a man crouching at my feet and dressed Air Force formal with the four stars of a full general. It was CIA Director Michael Hayden, and he complained to me profanely that he was misrepresented in my March 22 column on the Valerie Plame Wilson case. Denying that he favors Democrats, Hayden indicated that he had not authorized Democratic Rep. Henry Waxman to say Mrs. Wilson had been a “covert” CIA employee, as Waxman claimed, but only that she was “undercover.”

It gets worse from there.

Bush&Rove would rather be accused of deleting evidence than having it see the light of day and confirming their criminality. Just one more in-your-face moment among so many.

ironranger @ 60

I’ve noticed that a lot (maybe most) of republicans I know seem to have their entire egos wrapped up in the republican party. If you even mildly criticize a republican policy or legislator, no matter what the policy is or who the legislator is, they take it as a very personal attack on them as human beings. Teeth clench, faces turn beet red & grimace, stuttering ensues, one would think you had deeply insulted their grandmothers. I don’t see Dems giving up their entire souls like that.

Like to go along with that, but, the Republicans are, well, everywhere and, when they get to talking, well, I grimace, stutter and act as though my grandmother had been insulted (well, sort of…). Just sayin’

-MS

Christy Hardin Smith @ 83

selise — Spoke to a Judiciary Committee staffer who says that the hearing is supposed to be webcast on the Judiciary Committee website. However, they have had a litle tech snafu which hopefully is resolved, so just in case there is a glitch, they are working on it. Just FYI.

many thanks for checking up on that for us, christy. there’s no “webcast” button on their website page at the moment… i’ll check again at 10.

AP = Associated Pricks

EffWit

if there is a shred of truth to that story, Waxman should call both their bluff – invite them in, on the record – it is an ongoing matter after all :)

Kathleen at 92 — Yes, if and when it is appropriate to do so. If it is an ongoing investigation matter, then it likely wouldn’t be unsealed until the entire matter is resolved or at least the portion of the matter that they are trying not to tip off is completed. (Used to do this sort of thing in drug cases all the time where there was an extended conspiracy.) If it is a national security matter, it may never be unsealed, due to national security concerns (e.g. mentioning some source and method CIA issue or something along those lines).

Honestly, there has been no definitive information connecting that case to Fitzgerald’s investigation. Everything, including what you linked above, is speculative. There is likely a very good reason the case is sealed — and in all likelihood given the sheer amount of criminal and civil cases that pass through the DC Circuit, it has every chance of being completely unrelated. But I have yet to see one piece of actual evidence which ties that case in with anything specific and with Fitzgerald’s investigation. (And FWIW, the Matthews speculation that was referenced in the piece you linked was debunked the next day — Matthews jumped the gun on that announcement, and we had info here on that at some point. Don’t have time to find the link at the moment.)

Proof on this would consist of documentary evidence or an official statement or a quote from a named party involved or some such. Jeralyn spent time when she was in DC reporting for us trying to track down something — anything — solid on this, and did not get any substantive information.

Sally @ 97

Bush&Rove would rather be accused of deleting evidence than having it see the light of day and confirming their criminality. Just one more in-your-face moment among so many.

Very true.

Effwit @
96

Here he goes again.

From today’s Robert Novak column:

Seated at the Washington Gridiron Club dinner on March 31, I was interrupted by a man crouching at my feet and dressed Air Force formal with the four stars of a full general. It was CIA Director Michael Hayden, and he complained to me profanely that he was misrepresented in my March 22 column on the Valerie Plame Wilson case. Denying that he favors Democrats, Hayden indicated that he had not authorized Democratic Rep. Henry Waxman to say Mrs. Wilson had been a “covert” CIA employee, as Waxman claimed, but only that she was “undercover.”

It gets worse from there.

It appears they are getting creamed in the comments section..they’ve shut it down.

The Douchebag of Liberty rides high again.

-GSD

P.S. Imus, proving himself to be a small minded phony is now attacking Al Sharpton and others.

Wigwam @ 81

… Disk space is now so inexpensive that there is no longer any economic/technical reason for an organization to get rid of email.

:) As you imply, there may well be a political reason to get rid of email… but I do believe that’s a fool’s errand in the highly networked, multiple portable PC world of today.

I know a fellow who was saving his entire corpus of emails (incoming and outgoing) in one humongous and exponentially expanding database, stretching back to 1972. We all thought he was nutso. Not so much.

He was in his element when he set the AltaVista search engine loose on it. He ended up at Google (for obvious reasons; they clobbered us at AltaVista and ended up with the lion’s share of the search-engine market).

Of course he had to “divert” some major computer and storage resources during the first thirty-or-so years, but recently as you say, disk is dirt-cheap and what once took several washing- machine sized RAID arrays now fits in less than a cubic foot. Not to mention CPU.

P.S. Imus, proving himself to be a small minded phony is now attacking Al Sharpton and others.

This should be no surprise. He is beyond help for what he is.

earlofhuntingdon @ 88

I don’t think there’s an “Ooops” defense to serial violations of the Presidential Records Act. “Mishandling” and “inadvertent” may be the emotional seed the White House’s announcement wants to plant; “The Bad Seed” would probably be a closer analogy.

There seems nothing inadvertent about the White House’s duplicitous comms set-up, the number of people using it, their place at the top of the White House pack, or the apparent lack of an security and retention protocol or management of that protocol.

If Ken Mehlman – Harvard Law grad, computer guru, and former head of the RNC – can devise a national computer system that verifies your Republican voting status as fast as MasterCard can approve a salesman’s online purchase of Vi*gra, then the RNC system at the White House does precisely what it was intended to do.

That’s a good question for Chuck Schumer to ask. I think now is the time to voice our questions, just in case any congressional staff are visiting?

OT…
From Raw Story….”developing”

“Attorneys-linked senator may resign before ‘08: Soon…”

Anybody here have any idea what this story is???

Effwit @ 96

Here he goes again.

From today’s Robert Novak column:

Seated at the Washington Gridiron Club dinner on March 31, I was interrupted by a man crouching at my feet and dressed Air Force formal with the four stars of a full general. It was CIA Director Michael Hayden, and he complained to me profanely that he was misrepresented in my March 22 column on the Valerie Plame Wilson case. Denying that he favors Democrats, Hayden indicated that he had not authorized Democratic Rep. Henry Waxman to say Mrs. Wilson had been a “covert” CIA employee, as Waxman claimed, but only that she was “undercover.”

It gets worse from there.

Four star generals crouching at Novak’s feet is not an image I needed this morning.

And you’d think that maybe Hayden would have said it loudly and publicly, if this were the case.

Pass the coffee, with a shot of eye bleach.

Michael in PS: one difference is that Dems do a lot more criticizing of their party. Republicans I know rarely disagree with their own. When some inconvenient fact comes up, suddenly the topic is changed to something entirely different and/or it’s the democrats are to blame.

Wigwam @
82

GeorgeSimian @ 55

The emails, by their nature of being emails, were backed up when they were sent/received. Someone, somewhere has a copy. Unless, they were also instructed to delete them. In which case, there may be a great email floating around somewhere saying “Please delete all RNC emails relating to the firing of US attorneys” or “Please delete all emails from George Bush and/or Karl Rove relating to US attorneys, Abramoff, torture, Halliburton, Swiftboat campaign, Christian Coalition, Enron/Bush deep dish fund, Exxon/Alaska favor trading, EPA coersion, and best just delete anything coming from Cheney, who doesn’t really “get” email.

All organizations have written backup policies. The first order of business should have been to subpoena all RNC backup disks and tapes.
If there was a deviation in this case, it would almost surely indicate a deliberate attempt to block justice.

The first order of business should have been to subpoena all RNC backup disks and tapes, plus a copy of the backup policy, including the backup-retention policy.

Disk space is now so inexpensive that there is no longer any economic/technical reason for an organization to get rid of email.

That should be a well defined and regular audit policy. SAs would have to audit the mailservers DBs before running any DROP commands for example.

It is inconceivable to me that the White House Security Office would no be required to regularyly audit the mailservers.

IMO, the only thing bu$hCo worked on from 2001-2004 was reelection. The only thing they worked on 2005-2006 was getting Rs elected/reelected. As a matter of course, they were ratf**king Dems all along and every which way imagineable. All this can eat up one’s time!

The truth is self-evident: they haven’t done any actual governing for 7 years.

sonate @
108

OT…
From Raw Story….”developing”

“Attorneys-linked senator may resign before ‘08: Soon…”

Anybody here have any idea what this story is???

Retirement rumors loom over senator with Attorneys-linked ethics problem

O/t but e-mail related -

“Lawyers cite evidence in Katrina lawsuit: Claim e-mail shows State Farm applied pressure”. (wrt a Raleigh, NC engineering firm)

[snip]
In a reply dated Oct. 18, 2005, Down questioned the insurer’s motivations and questioned if there was an ethical problem with State Farm telling the firm what to put in reports. He also suggested that on another occasion, SF asked the firm to remove information from a report b/c ‘they would then have to settle’.
[snip]
Mississippi Attorney General Jim Hood, in Washington after testifying Wednesday before the Senate Commence Comm., said he knew about the messages for months as part of his criminal grandjury investigation. He said civil attorneys obtained the messages as part of discovery proceedings. [snip]

my bold……..funny thing about that AG term cropping up ;-( Wonder if anybody from Miss. knows whether this Hood guy is thug or Dem?

http://www.wilmingtonstar.com/…..7834239999

Sonate, that sounds like Domenici to me.

-GSD

sonate @ 107

OT…
From Raw Story….”developing”

“Attorneys-linked senator may resign before ‘08: Soon…”

Anybody here have any idea what this story is???

I would speculate it is about Sen. Domenici and is attempt to influence USA Iglesias to indict Dems prior to 06 elections. I have not seen the Raw story article. Do you have a link?

selise @ 91

… there’s not a lot of email on the list… it is a good way to keep in touch and be able to contact eachother.

OK, joined, with thanks.

I’ve got another, orthogonal idea for keeping in touch that may pan out. I’ll post it later if it does…
—————
Sally @ 95

Bush&Rove would rather be accused of deleting evidence than having it see the light of day and confirming their criminality. Just one more in-your-face moment among so many.

Same choice Nixon made. Same fate awaits the Boy King.

Financial Times has the goods on Paul “Wildly off the Mark” Wolfowitz and his comb-sucking subordinate.

Breaking all the rules.

Is there anyone of this bunch that is not corrupt to the core?

-GSD

well, if you dont count dismantling everything that used to work in govt. they have been “busy” at that for a while now.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 84

selise — Spoke to a Judiciary Committee staffer who says that the hearing is supposed to be webcast on the Judiciary Committee website. However, they have had a litle tech snafu which hopefully is resolved, so just in case there is a glitch, they are working on it. Just FYI.

Just out of curiousity, where is the webcast to be found on the Judiciary Committee’s site? I was unable to locate as obvious a link as there was to Russ Feingold’s hearing yesterday. Anyone?

Kathleen @ 87

Christy here is one of the articles will look for more

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/5/21/184052/881

Thanks. That’s a very interesting diary.

I just now checked to see if Jason Leopold has anything about it on the front page at TruthOut, but there was nothing.

GSD @ 116

… Is there anyone of this bunch that is not corrupt to the core? -GSD

If there is, I haven’t heard their name. And obtw though PJF (and Carol Lam) are(/were) in their DOJ, I don’t count them in the “bunch” and I do know their names… :)

Peterr @ 109

Four star generals crouching at Novak’s feet is not an image I needed this morning.

And you’d think that maybe Hayden would have said it loudly and publicly, if this were the case.

Pass the coffee, with a shot of eye bleach.

That picture at the top of his columns speaks volumns.

CHS – If AP is knowingly providing cover for teh GOP, can we just add them to the ever-growing list of corporate media bending over for the Bush/Cheney/Rove/Corporate junta? I figure it wouldn’t surprise you any that they’ve sold out? The MSM, radio, broadcast teevee and now AP, has lost all their credibility. That’s a boon for what you and other bloggers do. And, thank you for that.

sorry folks. no webcast today per committee staff :(

TiredFed @ 124

sorry folks. no webcast today per committee staff :(

Thanks for checking!!!! We’re sure to hear the outcome in NE event :)

Ukraine nixes the placement of anti-missile systems in their nation.

Bush loses another ally.

-GSD

The story is interesting in that it makes the claim the anti-missile systems are to protect Europe from Iranian missiles.

Last I checked Iran still had pretty good relations with Europe and very good relations with much of Eastern Europe and Russia.

GSD @ 115

Sonate, that sounds like Domenici to me.

-GSD

That would be a nice if it was. It would be a good counter to the swiftboating of Iglesias.

Not to worry about getting copies of the ‘missing’ emails. All Conyers and Waxman have to do is ask the Chinese, Russians or Saudi’s for copies.

I am certain that they will be happy to oblige.

Also, anyone see Tony Blair doing his best Imus impression claiming that crime is a “black” thing?

-GSD

Jeez…My head is exploding. This e-mail story is nowhere to be found on the main webpages. I keep hoping that there is an explanation, like the Congressionals would like to keep it quiet on their end…and that the big splash will come if they consider this to be their moment to issue subpoenas…but this is a MASSIVE cover-up and admitted violation of the Records Act and so far there’s been some articles but ya gotta be an archeologist to find ‘em.

I don’t know why this should shock me anymore. But man…this country is in trouble. I guess we have to take total and complete responsibility for getting the news out to the public. When are the Dems going to demand that they be allowed to have a say in the message?

mui @ 86

cbl @ 73

and on a related note -

MSNBC Breaking – Ohio Man indicted on Terror Charges

I wonder how long he was held before he “confessed.”

Am very interested in this guys story! What drove him to such desperate acts?

One thing I was surprised by when knocking on doors in Appalachia (Ohio), during the last three elections 2000,2004,2006 was how many people were so pissed with what was taking place. I mean really really pissed.

Very similar and often valid complaints when I recently took a Greyhound bus (had not been on a Greyhound in 25 years) back to Ohio after the Libby trial. Had many discussions on the bus with African Americans and Appalachians, again a great deal of anger. When I listened closely these individuals had good reason to be pissed off.

Many people working two jobs, barely able to pay their bills with minimum wage jobs. Compounded with this many had sent their children or family members off to Iraq (having believed the lies of the Bush administration) or wanting to access college.

This type of anger is brewing in our cities and poor rural areas. I worked hard to encourage people to call their reps and if they could afford to take trips to Washington to lobby. (most could not afford such a trip)

Most of the people I talked with had completely lost faith in this system, and I for one worry about this brewing anger.

Kept imagining a P Street (poor peoples street) instead of a K street in Washington. Kept imagining a grant written for people who can not afford to take such a trip to D.C. to witness what takes place there. Where individuals and family member could lobby their reps directly. The disproportionate and unfair system that people are effected by is overwhelming. Unfair distribution of wages, (ceo’s making three times what workers make) education, and health care.

There has not been enough done and these issues need to be addressed. If not I believe we will witness more radical behaviour.

Haven’t read the entire thread but regarding the potential existence of the emails on a server or a backup somewhere….it depends.

When do the backups run? Were the emails sitting on the server when the backup ran? (Likely a short window off-hours). Are the recipients using pop or imap? If pop (which is probably the likelier) are they configured to “leave a copy of mail on server”?

Sounds as if they’ve created a shadow mail infrastructure and they’ve been prepared to “lose” the data all along. It’s also quite possible that they wanted all of this data to be completely transient and they NEVER backed it up in the first place. It would be very easy to carry on electronic communication without leaving a trace. I’m sure they know this.

fyi -

Presidential Records Act -

2001 BushCo issued Executive Order 13233,

The PRA mandates that presidential records be preserved for future use by third parties. EO 13233, however, allows either a sitting President or a past President to veto their disclosure. The basis for the Order was, of course, the executive privilege of the ‘unitary executive.’

but wait, there’s more

under EO 13233, even former vice presidents can claim a ‘vice presidential executive privilege’, and withhold disclosure of their documents indefinitely

so very pre November 7th

H.R. 1255. H.R 1255 restores access to presidential documents (after certain waiting periods), limits the grounds for withholding access to them, and overrules EO 13233.

sailed through the House and has been referred to (wait for it. . .)

to the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Government Affairs, whose current chair is Joe Lieberman!

DKos link

sparrowgal @ 119

Christy Hardin Smith @ 84

selise — Spoke to a Judiciary Committee staffer who says that the hearing is supposed to be webcast on the Judiciary Committee website. However, they have had a litle tech snafu which hopefully is resolved, so just in case there is a glitch, they are working on it. Just FYI.

Just out of curiousity, where is the webcast to be found on the Judiciary Committee’s site? I was unable to locate as obvious a link as there was to Russ Feingold’s hearing yesterday. Anyone?

i think the absence of a webcast button is due to the “tech nafu” christy was told about.

hope they get it fixed.

another place to try is capitolhearings (click on the room number on the right hand side for the realplayer link)…

i get nothing at either site… so we may be SOL.

ha – and one of the bills they’er discussing today is called the ” OPEN Government Act”.

TiredFed at 125 — Thanks much for re-checking. They must have had continuing tech issues with the webcast, then. Bummer.

So can we expect the FBI to go in with its best data forensics team and recover all the data from the ISP’s servers and backups? And maybe even determine who erased the data and when?

My understanding is that it’s rather difficult to make sure you’ve erased electronic data unless you physically destroy the hardware on which it is stored.

The “lost emails” story is currently #3 on Yahoo News, FWIW…

Thanks Christy.

During the Libby investigation, if I remember well, there were not many Rove emails discovered until Rove gave one up himself. The meme was Rove did not frequently communicate by email. Guess the WH servers were CYA for what was going on behind the RNC server walls.

OT- L.A. Times staff writer Elaine Woo does an excellent job w/huge page 1 write up on Kurt Vonnegut’s passing, his life, & work:

Kurt Vonnegut- American Cultural Hero

When asked once what the meaning of life was Vonnegut said, “Well, I have a son who writes very well. He just wrote one book; it’s called The Eden Express. It’s my son Mark, who is a pediatrician and who went crazy and recovered to graduate from Harvard Medical School. But anyway, he says, and I’ve quoted him in a couple of my books, “We’re here to help each other get through this thing, whatever it is.”

What kinds of things might be in those e-mails?

- Instructions to Sen. Roberts on stonewalling the SSCI Phase I Report and burying Phase II?
- Gloating over the Corker ad in Tennessee?
- All the ‘damage control’ from the Foley Scandal?
- Jeff Gannon?
- Insider ‘talking points’ for the Patriot Act railroading?
- Jack Abramoff’s 275 visits to the White House?
- The forensics of Valerie Plame Wilson’s ‘outting’?
- Money for Votes?
- Arm-twisting for Votes?
- All of Rove’s Dirty Work?
- Dialog on ‘Who’s on the US Atty firing list and Who Isn’t’?
- The truth of the Cheney Hunting accident?
- Gossip on Hillary Clinton?
- Coordinating the ‘Friday-evening’ news dumps from Cheney’s office?
- Mehlman’s Doberman personality?
- Chatter about keeping “W” placated and un-triggered?
- Codewords for “He’s on the bottle, again”?
- Planning info on Rove’s selective release of certain government programs – TSP and Bank Account Review – to keep people in line with “the fear of Big Brother”.
- Ohio 2004?
- Something that directly incriminates Bush on the US Atty firings?

Those e-mails contain the Dialog of the Fleecing of America!

Let’s all hope that Justice will bring them to light!

I assume that there are procedures for interviewing tech folks responsible for administrating the servers and configuring the RNC PCs – to determine any possible avenues for recovery (eg. determine the e-mail infrastructure to know all the places that e-mail might be stored). As well as backup strategies.

Of course, there’s also the line of questions determining whether they were deliberately asked to do something illegal.

martha @ 138

The “lost emails” story is currently #3 on Yahoo News, FWIW…

if you go and email it, it will push it up the scale – it’s still not on the very front page…

linky

Gosh, the evidence of White House/RNC blatant criminality seems to have mysteriously disappeared — again. How do you suppose that keeps happening?

Please Sen. Leahy, Rep. Waxman, all of Congress — call them out on their endless BS.

Georgesimian @ 19

Big news today. Bombs in the Parliament building in Iraq. Sure sounds like that surge is working. Add another lead weight to McCain’s drowning election campaign and Lieberman’s sunken treasure trove of Bushisms. Why is no one reporting all the good news in Iraq? Like the sale on rugs.

Are the Iraqi’s safer yet now that Saddam is gone? Bush/Cheney and the gang..War Crimes

Does FDL no longer use Cafe Press? Can’t find the link.

clb72 @ 137

So can we expect the FBI to go in with its best data forensics team and recover all the data from the ISP’s servers and backups? And maybe even determine who erased the data and when?

My understanding is that it’s rather difficult to make sure you’ve erased electronic data unless you physically destroy the hardware on which it is stored.

Maybe the FBI will issue a NSL and do just that. Then again, maybe not.

I’m assuming the RNC, being a megacorporation it is in its own right, has its own mail servers and doesn’t rely on an ISP. Since the RNC is a private enterprise (I’m assuming), what “rules” about keeping data apply? It’s their data, if they choose not to have a backup scheme and risk not having their data protected…that’s their call.

Marie Roget @ 140

OT- L.A. Times staff writer Elaine Woo does an excellent job w/huge page 1 write up on Kurt Vonnegut’s passing, his life, & work:

Kurt Vonnegut- American Cultural Hero

When asked once what the meaning of life was Vonnegut said, “Well, I have a son who writes very well. He just wrote one book; it’s called The Eden Express. It’s my son Mark, who is a pediatrician and who went crazy and recovered to graduate from Harvard Medical School. But anyway, he says, and I’ve quoted him in a couple of my books, “We’re here to help each other get through this thing, whatever it is.”

I’ve read The Eden Express, it’s very good. Definitely recommended.

I may be repeating myself but, hey…here goes:

The shortest route to a criminal and/or ethics investigation inside the White House is based on their -apparent- admitted violations of the Records Act. Said violations may carry criminal violations. It is impossible for them to argue that they were unaware of the strictures of the Act, because annual training in NARA is mandated for ALL federal employees.

While we all want to know what’s in the e-mails, the violation of the Record’s Act doesn’t need the production of the e-mails. In fact, one could argue that the violations arise precisely because the e-mails that “conducted government business” WERE deleted from personal computers, servers, blackberries.

We KNOW that they were conducting federal government business in this secret system. There are existant e-mails -and perhaps testimony at this point- that establish that fact. There is ample and growing evidence to suggest that they established this system to do an end-run. By destroying them, they have given the Dems every opportunity to use this as a ram to bust through the White House doors. It’s a gift! Prior to this, we could look at DOJ but could only speculate about how we could get to Rove. The violations of the Records Act puts KKKarl squarely in the laser beams of the Congressional klieg lights.

Kathleen @ 132

I tend to think the whole thing is bogus. As cbl pointed out, training with the mujahedeen under the Bush I. wasn’t exactly terrorism against the U.S.
I guess I am always going to be skeptical given this administration’s past record. I have to raise an eyebrow when I see “US Attorney says . . .” given the current scandal.

Fresh thread, up and ready for the reading.

Some inspiring thoughts:

* As this story expands, it becomes increasingly unlikely that “lost” e-mails are really lost. Multiple copies of every file on every user’s computer, plus multiple copies on every computer at every node in every net travelled, plus (beauty) NSA bulk wire traps.

* As this story expands, it becomes increasingly unlikely that all persons involved will be willing to risk criminal prosecution, not to mention the expenses of defending themselves against prosecution.

* As this story expands, the GOP (what remains) can only distance themselves more from the administration. Again, we’re reminded of the real reason for Nixon’s final demise, i.e. effectively a no-confidence vote by his own party.

Was it Pat Buchanon that said about a month ago “This is the biggest disaster ever to result from the mishandling of a non-crime in the history of government.”? (something to that effect, the non-crime being replacement of some USA’s.)

Jay -

The RNC’s policy, Stanzel said, is to delete e-mails every 30 days, except for the e-mails of White House aides “who use the political e-mail accounts the RNC has provided them.” David Almacy, White House Internet and e-communications director, told Computerworld in March that the RNC’s archive exception for White House e-mails began in 2004.

link

Effwit @
96

Here he goes again.

From today’s Robert Novak column:

Seated at the Washington Gridiron Club dinner on March 31, I was interrupted by a man crouching at my feet and dressed Air Force formal with the four stars of a full general. It was CIA Director Michael Hayden, and he complained to me profanely that he was misrepresented in my March 22 column on the Valerie Plame Wilson case. Denying that he favors Democrats, Hayden indicated that he had not authorized Democratic Rep. Henry Waxman to say Mrs. Wilson had been a “covert” CIA employee, as Waxman claimed, but only that she was “undercover.”

It gets worse from there.

WaPo’s columnists are trying to split hairs where there are no hairs to split. Per the IIPA:

For the purposes of this subchapter:

(1) The term “classified information” means information or material designated and clearly marked or clearly represented, pursuant to the provisions of a statute or Executive order (or a regulation or order issued pursuant to a statute or Executive order), as requiring a specific degree of protection against unauthorized disclosure for reasons of national security.

[…]

(4) The term “covert agent” means—

(A) a present or retired officer or employee of an intelligence agency or a present or retired member of the Armed Forces assigned to duty with an intelligence agency—

(i) whose identity as such an officer, employee, or member is classified information, and
(ii) who is serving outside the United States or has within the last five years served outside the United States; or […]

IIRC there was testimony at the Libby trial that Plame’s association with the CIA was “classified.” And Plame herself subsequently testified to Congress she had served outside the United States during the five years prior to Novak’s publication of her affiliation with the CIA.

Effwit @ 96

Here he goes again.

From today’s Robert Novak column:

Seated at the Washington Gridiron Club dinner on March 31, I was interrupted by a man crouching at my feet and dressed Air Force formal with the four stars of a full general. It was CIA Director Michael Hayden, and he complained to me profanely that he was misrepresented in my March 22 column on the Valerie Plame Wilson case. Denying that he favors Democrats, Hayden indicated that he had not authorized Democratic Rep. Henry Waxman to say Mrs. Wilson had been a “covert” CIA employee, as Waxman claimed, but only that she was “undercover.”

It gets worse from there.

Novak has done enough damage to National Security by outing Plame to last a hundred lifetimes. I for one would like to see an official secrets act. http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/ac…..6_en_2.htm

Journalist are not omnipotent, innocent and often have their own dangerous and twisted agenda’s (Judy Miller). I would like to witness some of their asses in jail for longer than Judy served. Many of them have as much blood on their hands as the Bush administration. They have created the need for the blogoshpere, by not doing their jobs.

Novak is a slime bucket!

Not to sound too paranoid, but when I read the original AP story last night, I thought two things were odd: the length (AP stories are usually less thorough) and the amount of WH cooperation in explaining (insufficiently, to my eye) the circumstances and background as to the WH employees use of RNC accounts. The author Jennifer Loven has seemingly obtained a degree of WH on the record ‘cooperation’ that is rare in any story written about internal WH matters. I don’t know how that connects to Christy’s disappearing lede observation, but I think it’s noteworthy that the WH appears to have supplied a significantly odd degree of cooperation for the initial story.

GSD @
118

Financial Times has the goods on Paul “Wildly off the Mark” Wolfowitz and his comb-sucking subordinate.

Breaking all the rules.

Is there anyone of this bunch that is not corrupt to the core?

-GSD

If we ever get Condi up to the House to testify we can throw her off her stride by asking her how she feels about getting paid LESS than Wolfowitz’s mistress!

Jay @ 149

I’m assuming the RNC, being a megacorporation it is in its own right, has its own mail servers and doesn’t rely on an ISP. Since the RNC is a private enterprise (I’m assuming), what “rules” about keeping data apply? It’s their data, if they choose not to have a backup scheme and risk not having their data protected…that’s their call.

Emails may begin to be “found” since it’s doubtful that all emails were between RNC accounts. Find these external ones and follow the path back to the RNC. Also, the RNC will certainly have a backup scheme. The IT people worry about recovery, not about hiding activities.

and after the Stalinist purge, who will watch the watchers?

Meet the new boss – same as the old boss.

I don’t assocate with anyone who calls for political violence or Stalinist tactics.

The authoritarian “Trots” who became today’s neo-cons have shed party ideologies like my cats shed fur, yet kept working toward authoritarian rule and a one party state their entire careers.

Those who forget history are condemmed to repeat it – as those who forget biography.

Today is not the first day you call for violence (and yes “Stalinist purges” were violent).

These calls for political violence are repugnant.

When the master’s tool box drips political violence, those who advocate dismantling the masters’ house with the masters’ tools will not find me a congenial correspondent.

malcolmjames @
9

It’s simple: it’s because political corruption has made its way to the heart of nearly every institution in this country.

The AP is no different. Remember all those hit pieces John Solomon put out against Democrats? That shows the AP’s true colors right there.

We need a Stalin-esque purge in this country.

Who wants to start the next revolution with me?

Here is the NYT version of the e-mails story.

The potential Senate “retirement” or “resignation” IS Domenici. Raw Story summarizes the AP release, which MSMBC has in its entirety at

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18072444/

(Sorry, my “links” seem not to be operational.)

cbl @ 155,

It’s interesting that the RNC offered up that level of detail without having had it legally extracted (at that point Waxman had only “asked” for it). Still, the policy to delete emails every 30 days was self-imposed. They weren’t bound by law to follow it…right?

Oops. I see S.O.S. from MA already linked to the NYT story.

cbl @
155

Jay -

The RNC’s policy, Stanzel said, is to delete e-mails every 30 days, except for the e-mails of White House aides “who use the political e-mail accounts the RNC has provided them.” David Almacy, White House Internet and e-communications director, told Computerworld in March that the RNC’s archive exception for White House e-mails began in 2004.

link

Archive exception. That’s a huge clue – implies they are archiving (taking out of regular mail folder, placing in separate location).

Badwater,

Think about the possibilities though if they wanted to communicate without leaving a record.

A generic mail account that was accessible only by a few.

Backup “exclude” lists, that leave out backups of said accounts.

Only sending critical mail between the hours of x and y (so they never get to tape) and being sure that the target account is configured “not” to leave the mail on the server.

I guess my point is that data goes missing all the time (including email), and if it didn’t, backups wouldn’t be necessary. Leaving no fingerprints in the world of electronic communication is not difficult if you know what you’re doing.

martha @ 138

The “lost emails” story is currently #3 on Yahoo News, FWIW…

D**N!! This story is now #10 most emailed, only slightly behind #2-’Office’ fans flock to edit Wikipedia and #7-Mexican girls hit by ‘mass hysteria’ at Korean nuns’. Who says we don’t have our societal priorities straight?! Hmmmmmm. Not so surprised, at that.

preview, preview, preview:

“Those who forget history are condemmed to repeat it – as are those who forget biography.”

scarecrow @ 163

Oops. I see S.O.S. from MA already linked to the NYT story.

No oops required, O scarecrow of excellence. I forgot to actually LINK it… :)

scott pilutik @
158

I thought that, too, when I read it; it came across as if written by Rove himself.

And I note as one commenter above pointed out that Rove was in Chattanooga…does that mean TWICE in the last month? Was the doctored COPTIX photo meant to distract from the fact that he was in Tennessee (not unlike the kerning distracting from the truth of Bush’s AWOL)?

Jay @ 167

Badwater,

Think about the possibilities though if they wanted to communicate without leaving a record.

A generic mail account that was accessible only by a few.

Backup “exclude” lists, that leave out backups of said accounts.

Only sending critical mail between the hours of x and y (so they never get to tape) and being sure that the target account is configured “not” to leave the mail on the server.

I guess my point is that data goes missing all the time (including email), and if it didn’t, backups wouldn’t be necessary. Leaving no fingerprints in the world of electronic communication is not difficult if you know what you’re doing.

Doing this meticulously can be a real pain in the neck. If you really, really don’t want a trail, you don’t e-mail it. You meet the person and have a conversation.

> I would agree with other comments here that
> yes, much if not most of the data thought to
> have been deleted can be retrieved.

And I would humbly disagree. Big big data systems are not the same things as individual disks with FAT filesystems. Many comments of this type are being made on all the liberal blogs, and they are essentially all based on thinking that what happens on the Microsoft desktop scales linerally to the datacenter. It does not.

Cranky

Pat_AlexVA,

Agreed, but apparently they decided to go with email anyway. Here’s hoping that the techies at the RNC don’t know what they’re doing. My guess is that they can afford to hire the best…

Cranky Observer @ 173

> I would agree with other comments here that
> yes, much if not most of the data thought to
> have been deleted can be retrieved.

And I would humbly disagree. Big big data systems are not the same things as individual disks with FAT filesystems. Many comments of this type are being made on all the liberal blogs, and they are essentially all based on thinking that what happens on the Microsoft desktop scales linerally to the datacenter. It does not.

Cranky

I’m not sure the RNC servers constitute a data center (and I’m a data center guy). With server files, local copies, backups, and archives – there could be numerous areas where the e-mails may reside. Sometimes the issue is knowing to look and doing so.

Checking the inbox, sent, drafts, and deleted folders on the senders local, senders server, sendee’s local, and sendee’s server files would be where I’d start. I’d also ask about backups and archives of those systems also.

Cranky,

I’ve supported UNIX mail infrastructures for years so I wouldn’t attempt to speak to an Exchange server, et al. I promise that what I’ve stated above is absolutely true for UNIX/Linux.

Jay @ 174

Pat_AlexVA,

Agreed, but apparently they decided to go with email anyway. Here’s hoping that the techies at the RNC don’t know what they’re doing. My guess is that they can afford to hire the best…

They’re not that smart, Jay.

You know what they’re doing, now that the world knows about their use of the RNC accounts?

They’re using text messaging.

Seriously.

These people are clueless. Luckily.

Phoenix Woman @ 177

Jay @ 174

Pat_AlexVA,

Agreed, but apparently they decided to go with email anyway. Here’s hoping that the techies at the RNC don’t know what they’re doing. My guess is that they can afford to hire the best…

They’re not that smart, Jay.

You know what they’re doing, now that the world knows about their use of the RNC accounts?

They’re using text messaging.

Seriously.

These people are clueless. Luckily.

At the same time Abu is asking for ISP data preservation? Eg. Must store text messaging logs for n days? The irony here…

oddball at 43

Welcome to the club, oddball! I am never NOT moderated. (Take THAT double negative, you mods you.)

Actually, I don’t think it’s the mods at all. I think it’s The Big Red Dot In Texas adding blog comments to their email surveilance program.

Allow me to explain. I created several websites with hit counters that also tell me where in the world the hits are from. Even before I gave out the web addresses, The Big Red Dot In Texas would appear within 24 hours – on every one of my sites. I was highly skeptical so I contacted the administrator of the hit counters. He assured me the counters were accurate and that it could only mean that my sites were popular with someone in Texas – around Crawford to be exact. LOL. Hi George!

Pat_AlexVA @ 172

Jay @ 167
Badwater,

Think about the possibilities though if they wanted to communicate without leaving a record.

A generic mail account that was accessible only by a few.

Backup “exclude” lists, that leave out backups of said accounts.

Only sending critical mail between the hours of x and y (so they never get to tape) and being sure that the target account is configured “not” to leave the mail on the server.

I guess my point is that data goes missing all the time (including email), and if it didn’t, backups wouldn’t be necessary. Leaving no fingerprints in the world of electronic communication is not difficult if you know what you’re doing.

Doing this meticulously can be a real pain in the neck. If you really, really don’t want a trail, you don’t e-mail it. You meet the person and have a conversation.

_________________

Yes!

Pat_AlexVA @ 175

Cranky Observer @ 173

> I would agree with other comments here that
> yes, much if not most of the data thought to
> have been deleted can be retrieved.

And I would humbly disagree. Big big data systems are not the same things as individual disks with FAT filesystems. Many comments of this type are being made on all the liberal blogs, and they are essentially all based on thinking that what happens on the Microsoft desktop scales linerally to the datacenter. It does not.

Cranky

I’m not sure the RNC servers constitute a data center (and I’m a data center guy). With server files, local copies, backups, and archives – there could be numerous areas where the e-mails may reside. Sometimes the issue is knowing to look and doing so.

Checking the inbox, sent, drafts, and deleted folders on the senders local, senders server, sendee’s local, and sendee’s server files would be where I’d start. I’d also ask about backups and archives of those systems also.

Watch/read posts by luaptifer at ePluribus Media — they’ll have most of the info on the network structure.

ironranger @ 110

Michael in PS: one difference is that Dems do a lot more criticizing of their party. Republicans I know rarely disagree with their own. When some inconvenient fact comes up, suddenly the topic is changed to something entirely different and/or it’s the democrats are to blame.

I agree that we’re a whole lot more self-critical. But there are other (sort of related) problems on our side, which I think we could do without. For instance: political correctness. O/T but, for instance, in the RIGHTLY deserved criticism of Imus by e.g. Al Sharpton, one forgets the Reverend’s shortcomings in terms of, say, tolerance.

I know that this is not a very good comparison when we are talking about POLITICAL talking points, but I think it illustrates the concept which I have in mind. BTW, just how many republicans DO you know? The ones I have in mind are, for the most part, chance acquaintances. Anyhow, no doubt that, basically, democrats are the party of introspection, if for no other reason than we’ve got (basically) nothing to hide! Or so I see it…

-MS

The LAT nut:

WASHINGTON — The White House said Wednesday that it may have lost what could amount to thousands of messages sent through a private e-mail system used by political guru Karl Rove and at least 50 other top officials, an admission that stirred anger and dismay among congressional investigators.

http://www.latimes.com/news/na…..-headlines

Me, on Late Nite:

What I want from Leahy, Conyers and Waxman is a strong response, along the lines of ‘emails don’t just “vanish”, and if the White House or RNC can’t find them, we’ll just have to help them out.’

Pat Leahy, today:

“They say they have not been preserved. I don’t believe that!” Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy shouted from the Senate floor.

“You can’t erase e-mails, not today. They’ve gone through too many servers,” said Leahy, D-Vt. “Those e-mails are there, they just don’t want to produce them. We’ll subpoena them if necessary.”…

“E-mails don’t get lost,” Leahy insisted. “These are just e-mails they don’t want to bring forward.”

I love you, Senator.

I have no doubt the AP is deliberately obfuscating the story. We had a brouhaha here in Vermont about a year ago – the AP bureau chief, Chris Graff, who’d been on the job nearly 30 years – was fired for putting a scathing column written by Patrick Leahy over the wire. Leahy had written about Sunshine week. The AP removed the column, advised papers not to print it, and fired Graff. This was greeted by shock in all quarters – plain partisanship.