From this evening's edition of New York Times:
CBS brought the tumultuous weeklong crisis over racially insensitive remarks by the radio host Don Imus to an end late this afternoon when it canceled the “Imus in the Morning” program, effective immediately.
In a statement, [CBS head Les] Moonves said, “Those who have spoken with us the last few days represent people of goodwill from all segments of our society — all races, economic groups, men and women alike. In our meetings with concerned groups, there has been much discussion of the effect language like this has on our young people, particularly young women of color trying to make their way in this society.”
Bob Herbert, New York Times employee and a guest on tonight's Countdown, called Imus' comments "toxic" and not even funny. "What's the punchline?" he asked Olbermann. No punchline, just stupidity masked as edgy, envelope-pushing.
Imus is gone for now. How does this bode for the other mouth-breathers, like Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, and the Sauron of them all, Rush Limbaugh, who have had unfettered access to the public airwaves for the past six years? Media Matters sets out an exhausting (but hardly exhaustive) list of offensive comments uttered by these bigots and bullies.
And it is curious, indeed, that at this very point in time, Tim O'Reilly (who thinks it's really important that people know he coined the term "Web 2.0") has called for a bloggers' "civility" pledge, some sort of Hippocratic oath for the blogosphere. Promise to be nice, or else. Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh and John Gibson can spew the most heinously vitriolic crap and take home a fat paycheck, but bloggers are supposed to hold their tongues and be civil. From Tuesday's New York Times article:
"Mr. O’Reilly said the guidelines were not about censorship. “That is one of the mistakes a lot of people make — believing that uncensored speech is the most free, when in fact, managed civil dialogue is actually the freer speech,” he said. “Free speech is enhanced by civility."
Try selling that Orwellian bar of soap to Rush Limbaugh, Tim. When he stops being so morally repulsive, I'll stop using curse words. Sadly, No!'s HTML Mencken encapsulates this whole issue when he cites Sidney Blumenthal:
Like the politicians [George] Will set out to study, his words must be taken seriously. Two words are key to his thought — “decent” and “civility” — his shorthand for different political mentalities. “Decent” arises in his language as something bad about Democrats: “There hangs about the Democratic party an aura of moral overreaching. A symptom is the use of words like ‘decent’….as in ‘a decent society requires this or that.’” “Civility,” according to Will, is what will be restored when the Iran-contra scandal is swept away. But the meaning of these words, as Will uses them, is broader.
He uses “civility” to mean manners masquerading as morals, a category of form referring less to the rule of law than to the rule of etiquette; it is more an unspoken social, rather than ethical, code. Correct behavior may make the good possible, it is not goodness itself.
By contrast, “decency,” which Will belittles, actually is about morals…. “Decent” connotes a tempered moral position, one that carefully avoids righteous absolutism; it also suggests compassion and patience. The word is precisely the opposite of elite condescension, the opposite of hauteur.
MSNBC and CBS, undoubtedly torn between the loss of advertising revenue and the money that Imus generated with his anachronistic racism and misogyny, opted to do the decent thing and fired him. Now let's see how the networks handle their other albatrosses.
[I'm going to be in this space for the next few months, and will be, god help us all, setting Rudy Giuliani in my scopes. Had something ready, but thought that Imus' firing outweighed a brief history lesson in Giuliania.]
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Can we stop talking about him now?
The old order is buckling under the weight.
-GSD
I think that on a larger scale, the “civility” v. “decency” discussion is the crux of the matter.
Will someone please fire Rush?
Buh-bimus
I noted the difference between this matter and the recent Coulter ejaculations about John Edwards.
Them Republicans stand by their fascistas.
-GSD
On Imus? No comment.
I got 5 dollars sez Imus ends up on Fox. He’s just their type.
Or WH press secretary!
I think you mean “sets out an exhausting (but hardly exhaustive) list”
Did you mean “but hardly exhaustive”?
Morris Sheppard @ 9
Ah, yes. this is what happens when one scraps the post she was writing…
I understand that some are tired of Imus, but we can use this incident to go after Rush, Savage, Beck, etc. It’s important for that reason.
But today I’m mostly focused on those missing emails.
RE: Imus
I guess Anna Nicole is still dead and there are no missing white women this week.
It’s fine with me for Imus to get fired, but I think this is going to open an interesting can of worms. Limbaugh, for example, is a blatant racist. His endless “black” voices, including “Jesse Jackson” and “Mike Tyson”, are at least as racist as anything Imus said, and they are not meant as jokes in even the sense that perhaps Imus could have been understood. Past Limbaugh we find Savage, Hannity, Beck, et al, and they get worse and worse. Who is going to be deciding all these fine points. And once empowered, is this decider… oh dear.
Again, Imus needed to get this feedback. But there’s a whole lot of generalized bitterness that Imus is actually scapegoating for in this situation, and scapegoating is a dangerous game. In my book, what Imus did was very specific–he hurt some good people, the women’s basketball team of Rutgers, and it was something utterly out of the blue and in no way called for. It ought to be very clearly stated that he was fired for being egregiously hurtful to specific individuals. We don’t need censors, and gawd knows the Right already wants them bad enough.
Ana Marie: what sealed it for me was the amount of class those young women showed compared to Imus.
Another will arise to take Imus’s place.
They are legion.
So forget about them and go after the head of the snake.
What is clear is that there are civil but indecent people, and also uncivil, but decent ones.
I stand with the decent, civil or not.
It ought to be very clearly stated that he was fired for being egregiously hurtful to specific individuals. We don’t need censors, and gawd knows the Right already wants them bad enough.
It’s a slippery slope, I agree. I also think that FCC regulations for the public airwaves have been so blatantly disregarded that they’re essentially useless.
I am not interested in curbing free speech. I am interested in punishing hate speech.
I haven’t been out of the doghouse for long, but are we any better than Imus if we continually taunt Rove about his porcine features and/or his obesity?
Move over, Rover…
Remember this ???:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200509280006
DAVID FRANKLIN @ 8
I say Condi ends up on FOX too, with her own variety show like Liberace.
Morris Sheppard @ 18
Imus is neither.
What Don Imus said was racist.
What Don Imus said was sexist.
Double Whammy.
Buh-bye, Don.
I’m just glad his old carcass is gone. Its been dead for awhile and nobody took those remains away.
I never could understand his appeal. I found him perpetually abrasive, one of those ugly Americans.
Good ON CBS.
Balrog @ 20
Ben Stein ended the rumor of Karl Rove’s weight. Ben said he was fit and also a very nice man because Rove cooked him dinner AND gave him a ride home.
-GSD
Here’s the nub from NBC’s statement yesterday — it’s about employees of the media companies themselves knowing they can trust their places of employment to enforce their own professional conduct codes on sexual and racial harassment.
This is where we take the fight against hate radio and television to the next level. Is it CBS Corporation’s policy to allow its on-air talent to hurl sexual and racial epithets in news and public affairs programming? It isn’t NBC’s. How about you, Viacom? Clear Channel? NewsCorp? Time-Warner? How can women and minorities assure themselves they’re working and competing on a level playing field at your companies when your own personalities slur them on the air?
This is the central conundrum for our media companies, especially in their news, public affairs and information broadcasting. How can their own employees trust them with their careers when hate and harassing speech is willfully broadcast from their airwaves?
The answer is simple. They can’t. The solution is simple, too. Knock it the hell off.
That stupid blogger’s civility pledge is beyond ridiculous. The kind of people who would agree to it aren’t the ones who do the kinds of things that prompted Tim O’Reilly to draft it. The GOP-sponsored trolls won’t follow it. Hell, I doubt even the ambiguously gay bloggers at places like Powerline would.
DAVID FRANKLIN @
8
Depends on where their money comes from.
Why is KO attacking Anderson Cooper’s sexual orientation, as reported on HuffPo?
And what about those who are both indecent and uncivil? Imus is one, and Mark Levin, he of the “shut up you crazy lib!” fame comes instantly to mind.
LS @ 21
Yep. And Limbaugh’s mocking of 12-yr-old Chelsea Clinton. This pustulent boil has been a long time festering…
Imus was in the seat of power in the media establishment and of the Washington ruling elite and he chose to pick on a group of young college women who are at the top of the injustice scale in America.
-GSD
Joe Scarborough is tripping over his own logic.
Between Imus, Anna-Nicole Smith and Sanjaya on American Idol, I don’t see how there’s really time to think much about Darfur.
Oops, I meant Powerline not Hotline. I fixed my previous comment.
It’s amazing. You can kill five or six hundred thousand people, most of them innocents, based upon lies, and nothing happens. Astonishing.
1,484 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Watertiger and the Firepup Patriots:
“He uses civility to mean manners masquerading as morals…By contrast, ‘decency’, which Will belittles, actually is about morals.”
What an absolutely brilliant post Citizen Watertiger. The quotation excerpted above describes perfectly the defining cultural conflict exposed in the Imus mess. Here we are in the 21st century fighting the late 18th century battle between morality and decadence…decency vrs. manners. And the vacuity of the ruling class manners is nowhere better expressed than in the blatherings of one George Will.
decency vrs. decadence…the Rutgers women’s basketball team vrs. Don Imus – perfect.
Thank you Watertiger, your writing is elixir for the mind of this father of two young women and grandfather of three beautiful girl children.
KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T LET THE BASTARDS INTO YER YARD!!!
Limbaugh/Chelsea Clinton:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200703070012
Here’s a classic example of what to do if you want to feel real nice.
Just in from Think Progress
White House says it will not turn over RNC emails.
The Politico reports:
White House Counsel Fred Fielding, in a letter today, told Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich.) and Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.), chairmen of the House and Senate Judiciary committees, that the White House has not budged in its refusal to allow the panels to question several White House aides, including Karl Rove, about what they know regarding the firing of eight U.S. Attorneys, moving the two sides closer to a constitutional battle over the scandal.
Fielding also appears to be trying to head off an attempt by Conyers to obtain e-mails and documents from the Republican National Committee regarding the firings. … Fielding also said that “it was and remains our intention to collect e-mails and documents from those [RNC-controlled] accounts as well as the official White House e-mail and document retention systems” as part of a broader deal with the two committees on staffer testimony.
In a response statement, Conyers was unmoved: “the Judiciary Committee intends to obtain the relevant emails directly from the RNC. The White House position seems to be that executive privilege not only applies in the Oval Office, but to the RNC as well. There is absolutely no basis in law or fact for such a claim.
For heavens sake, why are so many of you trying to lump Imus in with Limbaugh, Beck, etc.? Please hear me: you have never really listened to his show – you don’t know what in the hell you are talking about – and you are letting someone else tell you what you think. We are in the middle of a war of truth against some real honest to goodness crooks and liars out there, and I am here to tell you that you are dead wrong about Imus’ true character (which should be judged by his good actions, not just a few idiotic words). I invite all those high-fiving Imus’ demise to do a little research on their own. He has raised over $40 million selflessly for sick kids and wounded soldiers. You don’t see Limbaugh or their ilk doing that now do you? Come on people: think for yourselves a little here will you? If you won’t do that, then you are a liability in the mission of truth this blog supposedly represents. Kristie? Jane? Anyone?
Take that Fielding!! Sit on it and spin!
watertiger 33 -
Joe has logic? Could have fooled me.
JSW454 @ 42
Amen. There is bigger and better prey to be shot down.
Glenn Beck should go next.
Hannity and Rush are in more protected positions, but Beck’s employer, CNN, might be more vulnerable to pressure.
Ten years ago I used to watch CNN Headline News a lot, back when it was a class operation. It makes me sick what they’ve done to it, between him and Nancy Grace.
Yea casual racism! (and sexism!)
I have to be civil on my blog or else my brother unplugs the modem after I take down my un-civil post. I don’t listen to hate radio, but I do listen to Mike Malloy and he HATES THE REPUBLICANS!!!! But he tells you why.
well, I can’t believe I’m on the other side of a firedog issue but here I am
ya, of course Imus was wrong but more wrong then coulter when she calls the widows of 9/11 firemen sluts?
more wrong then savage who calls barbarah walters a mental slut?
more wrong then hannity and rush who on every occasion call democrats “working with the enemy”?
I’m sorry but Imus is the only person in corporate media critisizing the administration
I have no excuse for what Imus did but I did see his opology with sharpton and I believe he knows what he did was wrong, I believe he really did plan to make it right, I like his charity work and I think he’s the only person on corporate media giving another side to the political story
and who the hell is sharpton to critisize someone else over rascist remarks?
he’s called my people a ghetto religion
sorry
this is a shiny object and the right wing media played us like a badly tuned piano to get rid of Imus
shiny object and we fell for it.
Imus was by FAR the most progressive personality on in the morning here in long island raidio, FAR more progressive then “sammy and army” who happen to broadcast on air america if you can believe it
I’ll say it again
shiney object and we fell for it
what Imus needed to do was get the team on the air or in person, personally opologize to each and every one of them individually and as a team and let THEM tell him if they wanted him to resign or not
if he said;
“I will resign if you think I am not genuine in my opology to you”
I believe that would have calmed everyone down
anyway, shiney object and we fell for it
Snarkassandra -
where oh where are you hearing Mike Malloy these days ?
scarlet p. @
35
…… or Iraq or Iran or North Korea or the 5000 scandals the Bushies are causing.
So remember, if you are going to be a racist, make sure that you give to charity….It makes everything OK.
-GSD
JSW454 @ 41
Much as I don’t think Imus is essentially a decent person, you are right about some of it. He may be a jerk and a minor league bigot, but he did have a penchant for skewering those who were too full of bull – or themselves – for their own good. Kind of like a jerk who didn’t suffer fools gladly. In a political culture shot full of fools and liars there was a value in that.
The dead of Iraq will haunt us. Much as the slaughtered Jews of the last world war haunt Europe and the rest of us.
cbl @ 50
on NovaM Radio. He is on right now. You can listen from KPHX radio in Pheonix.
SnarKassandra @ 48
Mike Malloy Rawks!!!
And Tom Hartman, and Randi Rhodes, and Stephanie Miller, and …
god, do I love me some John Conyers.
I disagree with the position that it is ok to say bad things if one does good things.
john in sacramento @ 56
Randi can insult people but she doesn’t get nasty. Or racial.
thanks snarkassandra!
JSW454 @ 42
Just a “youthful indiscretion,” right? Sorry, no biscuit for you.
cbl @ 60
You can call me Cassie. :)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 54
3 million dead Vietnamese doesn’t haunt “us”. Why would this be different?
Look, there were Black employees for NBC who said that it was unnacceptable.
Somehow, the idea that everything that occurs is a Rovian double-trick is really crazy to me.
Black people were very upset about this…White people who dislike racism were very upset about this. College basketball players were very upset about this.
My brother’s Jamaican-America wife was upset about this.
That this was somehow a manufactured rightwing hit on “progressive Don Imus” is pretty outlandish.
-GSD
GSD @ 51
look, I know rascists…I happen to have been raised a rascist
a little education and intelect and rascisim is deminished but some people cannot overcome how they were raised, it takes lessons…this was surely a lesson Imus should have learned from before but I’m pretty certain he learned it this time and I am certain he would have done what most of us would do if someone made rascist remarks on our air show
lessons…we all make mistakes, some of us will benefit from lessons, others will not…Imus?
I’m pretty sure he and the rest of radio would have benefitted from that lesson if his opology were accepted but his opology looked sincere to me
is it ok to say rascist things if you do good things?
no, of course not, but then there are those lessons
anyway, I’m done defending Imus, what he said about this team was repugnant and I’m sure I understand everyone’s position here
I just think this should have been left up to the women he insulted, not sharpton, not us…the women he hurt
Imus didn’t do what needed to be done I suppose, get in touch with the people he hurt and try to see if he could make it right
anyway, he’s gone from am radio…I wouldn’t be surprised to see him on payed tv or satalite radio in the very near future
hey…whatever happened to bob grant?…is he working again?
Survey question —–
How many people think that you can ONLY call a place a concentration camp if it is also a death camp?
(I am having an argument with the 12 yr old blogger on my site. NO using the dictionary on this one.)
I don’t know why so many equate Imus as being right wing because he is a bigot. Actually he hated Bush and never uttered his name without calling him an idiot or a criminal or worse. I really think old KKKarl had his fingers into this mess. They seem to want to have The media look as if they caved to Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson, so the media will probably get a right wingnut to fill his slot to show thay are independent of Sharpton. Maybe like a Larry Elder or something.
Hello, Imus be going…
EvilDrPuma @ 61
You may as well save your bytes, this is a done deal here. I was leaning your way until all the stuff about how he had promised to stop this shit before.
GSD @ 52
Charity heals all wounds. It’s the difference between Bill Gates and a corporate predator. It’s the difference between Don Imus and a racist. And Dick Cheney would become a hero if he just bought some freakin’ Girl Scout cookies, right?
SnarKassandra @ 66
Nope. It may be that all death camps are concentration camps, but not all concentration camps are death camps. Show the kid a Venn diagram.
EvilDrPuma @ 70
A whole truck load of girl scout cookies!
SnarKassandra @ 65
Probably lots of people think that way. But they’d be wrong. The camps where they dumped Japanese Americans and Canadians were concentration camps, for example.
Occam’s Razor, people. While Don Imus may not have been as “bigoted or misogynistic” as, say, Rush Limbaugh, this wasn’t his first offense.
To think that Karl Rove, who is probably too busy taping over all the old emails, is somehow behind this is a bit of a reach.
Alice B @ 67
Hi, Dan Abrams. Karl Rove here. Can you whip up some sort of controversy involving Imus? He’s tough on George W. Bush
What’s that? Olbermann…NO, Imus is the one who is really tough on Bush.
Yeah, I know I am dealing with a two bad wars and a melting adminstration, but getting Imus out of the way would really help.
-GSD
Imus is one of those “libertarian democrats” (gack, choke) who had a lot of pull setting the tone of discourse on our (allegedly) public airwaves. Those who like him can think he was “more progressive” than most others. But he was still poisoning the airwaves with his disgustingly crass “humor” and was more than willing to engage in baseless character assassination of prominent Democrats like Hillary Clinton. His style of progressiveness I can do without; he’s the type that helped pull “the center” further and further to the right, so the rightwingers can become even more offensive. Imus is the agar that people like Glenn Beck feed off of to make what they do acceptable.
Yes, Hannity and Beck and Savage and Coulter and O’Reilly and Limbaugh are worse. They are different problems that hopefully can also be dealt with eventually. With the exception of Limbaugh none of them have the kind of influence Imus had. Seeing all of the so-called professional journalists debase themselves the last few days vouching for Imus shows just how corrupted the millionaire media elite are.
I don’t think this Imus-mania is a right wing conspiracy. I do think it’s gotten way too much attention and has served as yet another distraction from a lot worse things that have happened (or come to light) in the last week.
And I think THAT is due, once again, to the MSM……who, when they’re not pandering to Bush et al, are just going about business as usual, i.e., making mega bucks off the sensational shit that their audiences eat up.
Will CBS radio never play most rap and hip hop tunes ever again too? They are probably mostly more disgusting vicious and racist than Imus has ever been. I can keep Imus switched off, but i would have to limit myself only to cds of my own playing to avoid the seditious exhortations to commit sexual violence one hears constantly on the radio.
Whose standard will CBS apply?
watertiger-
If you can photoshop Giuliani the way you have McCain, you may …. well, you know, it would be neat.
spinoza @ 78
You’re incorrigible.
That’s it, if we can do without it let’s ban it. Sharpton and Jackson remind me of the black preachers in Atlanta who tried to run gays out of their neighborhoods. Screw a bunch of preachers telling me what to say or listen to.
raven @ 63
And 13 million Ukrainians, Georgians and other non-Russians of the USSR?
I believe I have heard too about 23 million of what were called Red Indians in those days?
GSD @ 75
I don’t mean KKKarl started this mess, but when he saw it escalating a bit he made a few calls and greased the wheels to make sure they fell off. Funny, three of Bush’s most vocal critics, Dan Rather, Howard Stern and Don Imus…all of CBS….are gone. Have you seen any rightwing jerks losing their jobs lately?
You folks and the dictionary agree with me.
OK, next question. I am one of the editors of the blog but I am 15. Our other editor is 16. Do we tell him to change it? Or leave it up?
What do REAL editors do?
I want justice. I want out of Iraq now. I want no more unprovoked attacks by my country on other countries. I want a Palestinian homeland. I want a president who will do these things and protect Mother Earth, above all.
off topic, this is cute fun and all
think progress;
White House Counsel Fred Fielding, in a letter today, told Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich.) and Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.), chairmen of the House and Senate Judiciary committees, that the White House has not budged in its refusal to allow the panels to question several White House aides, including Karl Rove, about what they know regarding the firing of eight U.S. Attorneys, moving the two sides closer to a constitutional battle over the scandal.
Fielding also appears to be trying to head off an attempt by Conyers to obtain e-mails and documents from the Republican National Committee regarding the firings. … Fielding also said that “it was and remains our intention to collect e-mails and documents from those [RNC-controlled] accounts as well as the official White House e-mail and document retention systems” as part of a broader deal with the two committees on staffer testimony.
In a response statement, Conyers was unmoved: “the Judiciary Committee intends to obtain the relevant emails directly from the RNC. The White House position seems to be that executive privilege not only applies in the Oval Office, but to the RNC as well. There is absolutely no basis in law or fact for such a claim.”
MSNBC dumped Michael Savage.
-GSD
snowbird42 >
Go Mr. Conyers, Go !
Just as soon as I finish sharpening my pitch fork I`ll be along to assist.
What a true American.
“Those who make peaceful change impossible make violent change inevitable” – John F. Kennedy
JSW-I heard the same crap from all the Bobby Knight apologists every time he did something antisocial-”but he donated millions to the library, but he graduates his players, etc etc. Bernie Ebbers, late of Worldcom and the Federal Pen, was an elder in his church. So what?
Imus is the recipient of the karmic blowback for all the people he shit on over the years. And there was plenty of them, and they were all laughing at him while he circled the drain. His employers did him no favors either-if they had suspended him immediately following the remarks, he would probably still have a job. He didn’t have very good PR help either-I mean, Mel Gibson did a better apology than this guy. Once people started digging into the shit he had been saying for years, it was only a matter of time.
God I am so bummed that Steve Gilliard can’t comment on this, get well soon Steve, we need your voice!
1,484 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen JSW454:
You just don’t get it, citizen, so let this father of two college women and grandfather of 3 wonderful granddaughters try and clear it up for ya. It doesn’t matter how much money Imus raised for widows, orphans, wounded vets or endangered baby seals…what he said denies everything for which America stands. To sanction his vile and destructive statements as somehow justified by his charitable actions is like saying the murderer is really a good guy and should be pardoned because he has raised lots of money for ___________.
No, JSW, the vile filth that Imus spewed was aimed not just at the Rutgers women, but at my daughters and granddaughters…indeed, his verbal incontinence is an attack on the trust our children have placed in us and the responsibility we have to our history and values.
Enough of this ridiculous cant that Imus is really a “good guy” and does wonderful things…good guys don’t assault the humanity of anyone at any time. And if they do, they issue unqualified apologies and take responsibility for their actions. Imus said those things (and much more), that’s who he is and he must take the consequences.
KEEP THE FAITH AND GET THAT LAME SHIT OUTTA MY HOUSE!!!
For the record I have never called for Imus to be fired or have I said that he was a right winger.
I am also very disturbed about the talk of the FCC setting new standards and I am also upset about ministers telling me what to think or say.
-GSD
SnarKassandra @ 84
I’d say leave it, since you evidently allowed the kid to post it freely…but also make sure he knows it’s the editors who disagreed with him, and that such egregious abuse of facts and definitions will not be tolerated in the future.
From what I hear Ken Lay was a very generous donor to various social causes in Texas.
-GSD
GSD @ 87
That was four years ago and he was not a biggie like Stern or Imus. And he was really new to the TV then. He only lasted a short while on the tube. He is still on radio.
GSD @ 87
Now this is the kind of domino effect I can deal with!
SnarKassandra @ 66
the phrase “concentration camp” means just that, a way to “concentrate” humans for some other purpose. We put the japanese in concentration camps during ww 2, and we are putting some illegal immigrants in them now. do googles for ICE and you’ll find the MSM coverage and i’m sure bloggers have even more.
even “refugee camps” are technically “concentration camps”…one reason the palestinians hate them, IMHO
depending on who/what the replacements are, this means progressive may need to support MSNBC and CBS a bit for getting rid of Imus.
EvilDrPuma @ 95
4 years between dominos is not change for the better.
GSD @ 87
There’s one guy I can’t stand. I met him once while he was out shopping for a garment rack. (Probably to torture someone.) I can assure you he is every bit as revolting in person as he is on the air. I had wondered if his was just an act but it isn’t.
Morris Sheppard @
18
Hallelujah, shams and skanks got the white guy.
Long live the Hypocracy.
Alfred Kelgarries @ 97
they were concentration camps on arrival, they were concentration camps long before they were exterminating people
Rap music is a completely different issue from Don Imus the shock jock. Tackle the issue of rap lyrics on its merits, it is absolutely irrelevant to what Imus said on his radio show other than they both involve black people.
Imus being fired was driven by groups putting pressure on advertisers, because people are truly offended. Imus, for no reason, attacked a group of young women who are doing everything right in their lives—going to college and excelling as athletes. They should be admired, not treated like trash which is what Imus did. Imus is a victim of market forces. The market through these groups decided he crossed a line that couldn’t be forgiven.
EvilDrPuma @ 93
This is what I sent him and then I was his first comment, and that’s where I gave him the 2 dictionary definitions for concentration camp:
GSD @ 91
Dude, yer killin’ me!
Imus is gone. He may have or may not have deserved his fate. I suppose reasonable people
could in good faith argue that round or flat.
I am somewhat taken aback at the selfrighteous glee some seem to be taking in his fall. It seems to me that in this regard his prior good acts should act to mute the gloating.
mangua @82 6:48pm
The People (Native Americans) smile on those who remember them. ;0)
SnarKassandra @ 84
Leave it up, but write your own post as a reply.
Cassie — Detention Center
dwwenz @
4
I’m moving that right to the top of my Homosexual Agenda.
Watching Olbermann and heard that “the market works” vis-a-vis HasBeen.
Watched 60 Minutes last weekend (I think) and saw a corporate whore deny transparency to his benefactors. Right – market works.
Make no mistake, the whips of “right to life” see each embryo as nothing more than a marketing target.
old gold @ 105
Again, I was leaning that way becuase I was ignorant of how deep the pattern of his abusive behavior was and how he had already promised to stop it.
NorskeFlamethrower @
91
Ah Norske, always with the tough talk. You forgot to call him/her a fascist.
Why don’t we discuss your faux-Patton schtick and how that fits in with sane discussion?
Twisted Martini @ 90: “God I am so bummed that Steve Gilliard can’t comment on this, get well soon Steve, we need your voice!”
OT…but I hope folks are visiting Steve’s site every day, while he recuperates. Keep his hits up. And the guest posters are doing some good pieces.
TRex @ 108
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
SnarKassandra >
They deal with the problem you have by using their professional judgement.
One option might be to add an editors note to the incorrect statement(s) pointing out the definition of the terms involved.
For example –> [Much like the moderators do here from time to time.]
Editorial responsibility is sometimes a lonely thing. Very important though.
“The future will be a struggle between huge competing systems of psychopathology.” – J. G. Ballard
come on ! progressive voice ?
well, easily the most progressive voice in the he-man-woman-haters-club
and how progressive is it to endorse Joe Lieberman and smear Ned Lamont, a man you’ve never met ?
apparently you’ve never seen the comedy stylings of Imus & Bernie doing Nagin
and how good are his ‘acts’ sitting in San Antonio without ever once acknowledging his enabling those who put those young soldiers in wheel chairs in the first place ?!?!
Valley Girl @ 106
bingo
puppethead @ 103
Rappers are given a free pass because they make somebody a lot of money. They are similar to Imus in that they are rich, powerful men who put down women. They are black. But they aren’t poor and women. They have no business using those phrases anymore than Imus.
daCascadian @ 114
The only problem is that I don’t have much professional judgement. I have been a blogger for a year and an editor for 12 days and I don’t have my first journalism class until next school year.
watertiger @
3
If I may be so bold:
Decency as exemplified by Jimmy Carter trying to force us to live up to our professed ideals in foreign policy and all other ways.
Civility as exemplified by Ronnie Ray-guns’ quips and making everyone feel good and patting them on the head and saying “that’s all right” when the hate starts being spewed.
Alice B @ 95
You really didn’t have all of those qualifying exceptions to your orginal question.
Also, Ann Coulter was recently dumped by 9 papers. Should have been 99…But it is a sign that the status quo is getting shaken.
-GSD
Also, people have to remove the scales from their eyes when it comes to Karl Rove.
If he were all powerful, George W. Bush wouldn’t be at 29% in the polls with two stinking wars dragging him down….The Republican establishment wouldn’t be offering up quotes about how he’s a “black hole sucking the Republicans down with him”.
Yes, he’s crafty, Machiavellian but he’s not behind everything.
-GSD
Thanks, perris. Glad to know I am not alone.
If a Republican Congressman had just blown his job making the same public comments Imus lost his job over, what are the odds he’d be checking into rehab right about now ?
I see the firing of Imus as the potential beginning of a movement to take back public discourse from the hate-spewers.
Of course, Limbaugh et al. are worse! But let this just be the beginning.
The general public is much, much more progressive across the board than the “elite” media would like to let on.
The firing of Imus is really an example of the much-vaunted “marketplace” in action. Sponsors pulled out because they knew their own businesses would be in danger if they continued to sponsor Imus. The networks then saw the writing on the wall as well — the sponsors were reacting to the very same pressures the networks felt internally, from their own employees.
What’s a hoot is hearing the folks who normally proclaim the magic of the “marketplace” (”Let the market sort it out!”) complain now when “the market” has now done precisely that!
Let’s see more positive “market” action now on the other racist misogynist hate-spewers out there.
It’s in part up to us to see to it that there is momentum in this achievement.
SnarKassandra @ 66
A concentration camp is not necessarily a death camp. There were concentration camps here in the US for Japanese US citizens during the last war, one was in Wyoming near Yellowstone. Dachau, near Munich, was a concentration camp where my grandfather was helf for political reasons. There was no mass murder like in other camps, except that prisoners had no food, were forced to stand in the freezing cold of winter for hours to take cold showers. They were tortured, but not outright killed, but the idea was that they would expire.
mulligatawny @ 124
If any of you want to leave him a comment telling him he is wrong, please do.
dakine01 @ 120
President Carter. Will we ever see the like again? Honest Abe and honest Jimmy. ;0)
On AC 360 Tom Delay calls for tit for tat and for conservatives to take down Rosie O’Donnell.
Sharpton hitting back.
Cassie- did you see my advice, seconded by perris?
Stevie Wonder’s caught using the N-word
Lyrics
Looking back on when I
Was a little nappy headed boy
Then my only worry
Was for Christmas what would be my toy
Even though we sometimes
Would not get a thing
We were happy with the
Joy the day would bring
SnarKassandra @
66
We put folks of Japanese ancestory in concentration camps during WWII, just called them internment camps instead. Same horse, different name.
SnarKassandra @ 65
A concentration camp is a place where people end up who are gathered for specific reasons and imprisoned as defined by a governmental policy. When the people in that camp are ordered to be killed by the government, it is called a “death camp”.
1,484 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen K8:
Thank you for your reasoned and gentle statement that attempts to give some meaning to the Imus experience…I get too emotionally involved in some a this stuff (Ya think??!!) and anyways, I can’t write like you do…thanks again,sister.
KEEP THE FAITH AND TAKE CARE OF EACH OTHER!!
youkillednoodle @ 130
was thinking of that song today meself…..
Gotta say it once more. Gore.
Why is Delay not in jail? Why is he on Anderson Cooper with an opinion?
Bionic @ 125
That tells you a lot about how “progressive” Imus is. He’s now the poster child for the crazy GOP fascists.
puppethead @ 102
If you are not “truly offended” by rap and hip hop lyrics I am not altogether sure vyou are qualified to post on the subject.
In case you misunderstand me, what Imus, Stern, Limbaugh, Malkin, IS plain offensive and has no business on the air.
The ever increasing horrendous violence seen at the movies and on our TVs has no business being shown. That you are not offended by the music shows how inured you must be by the constant lowering of standards.
I disagree that certain words are permissible because other people have said them.
Wrong is wrong. No matter who says it.
SnarKassandra @
84
Put up an editor’s note. “Opinions expressed are by the writer and do not reflect the editors of this blog.”
Watertiger,
Glad to hear you’ll be with us more. This was a decent post.
O/T but relating to R.I.M (Blackberry).
1) Canadian company.
I’ve heard all msgs. are routed thru their servers and then to recipient. Can Conyers/Leahy/Waxman get legal standing to access that info?
2)http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2006-01-23-blackberry_x.htm
I was interested in this, cause I wanted one. I recall there was talk of ‘exceptions’ for U.S. gov’t workers, even if RIM were forced to shut down the units.
Wonder if there wasn’t more going on behind the scenes, now.
This Glen Beck guy, which woman can stand to be around him for more than two seconds? Such a self centered no-man. I like that, no-man.
JSW454 @
42
Imus provided a very safe harbor for Lieberman before and after Lamont’s primary victory. He really strongly supported Santorum.
Our Federal tax dollars subsidize the Federal airwaves. Imus is free to call women whores and be a vocal white and hetero supremacist on his own dime. When he does it on the Federal Airways, it’s very fair game. IMHO, if he had just stuck with the “nappy hair,” this never would have happened. Two of the players were European American and he call the team whores. Given his prior white, male, hetero, supremacy, it was an easy call.
Every time there was a poll asking, “Should Imus stay or go?” I voted go, fire him already, what the hell is taking so long? If it were a man he’d talked about like that, he’d be long gone. (See Jimmy the Greek years ago, and Rush Limbaugh on ESPN.)
And I’m tired of taking it. It feels very good to be rid of one voice, at least, who said bad things about women just because they were women, just because he was powerful…just because he was a man and he could.
BTW, NJ Governor Corzine listed in “critical but stable” condition after the car accident he was in on his way to meet with Imus. No head injury, but VERY broken leg.
NorskeFlamethrower: I hear you, and actually agree with you. I wasn’t defending Imus’ language nor his history of defamation. I just said I thought he had a good character underneath the “schtick”. I may be wrong. But his actions and efforts to help others (he did not just “give money”) seemed to contradict his “act”. But again, I could be wrong. Either way, I know I am right about this: that Imus in no way, shape, or form is anywhere close to comparable to Coulter, Hannity, Savage, Limbaugh or Beck, and that at least Imus HAD a good side. I think too much of the high-fiving going on in the liberal blogs is based on some weird notion that “one of them” got taken out. Imus was not a wingnut, who I define as someone who spends every day spinning the truth and twisting words to distort truth in order to advance themselves or their protectors. So, regarding Imus…definitely a bad influence, a poison in the airwaves many times, but he was not one of the wingnuts.
NorskeFlamethrower @ 91
Many black Americans used the N word in order to take the power out of it. Much in the way gays co-opted “queer”.
However, as time has gone on, this word has become very anachronistic and shouldn’t be used by anyone.
-GSD
My prediction:
Don Imus cried, and he’ll be back in 2 weeks.
Suzanne @ 139
it’s completely differant when someone from a race uses rascial slurs
a native can call another native an injun in fun, I am jewish and me and my friends call each other jew boys in fun…someone who’s not jewish cannot call me a jewboy
true story;
I saw a two little people together in a mall in line to buy something
one turned to the other for some change and she said “can’t do it, I’m a little short”
they both laughed hysterically…I am certain neither wood laugh if did it though
you cannot claim “they do say it to themselves so I can do it to them”
Firing Don Imus accomplishes nothing and avoids everything. If CBS or MSNBC had any guts, morals or decency, they would take it upon themselves to begin an open honest dialog about race and gender in America. They don’t, they didn’t and instead they took the expedient, easy and civil way out; they fired Don Imus. Now the country can go back to Anna Nicole, all is well, justice has been done, racism and sexism have been vanquished. We are the greatest country on the planet: USA! USA! USA!
maunga @ 135,
You’ve read something into my comments I didn’t say. I said rap music was a different issue, not that there’s nothing wrong with it. Offensive rap is pushed by RIAA as a product because it makes record companies money, and it’s a big problem. But it has absolutely nothing to do with what Imus has done for years on his radio show.
dakine01 @ 140
as valley pretty girl said, I would act as omnibuds and put up my own rebutt
GSD @ 147
Once again, I enjoy your comments.
watertiger @ 146
I think I saw on Countdown that Imus was meeting the Rutgers women at the NJ Gov’s mansion. After all, I believe Rutgers is ID’d nowadays as the state university of NJ.
Balrog @
20
BALROG!
SnarKassandra >
The very fact that you are concerned about honest use of terms is VERY PROFESSIONAL so don`t sell youself short just because you “are only (include favorite phrase here) & haven`t (done something) yet”. Profesional is behavior & not a certain amount of check marks on a list of been there, done that.
Be fair & even handed. Trust yourself.
“If you don’t behave as you believe, you will end by believing as you behave.” – Bishop Fulton John Sheen
Bionic @ 128
If only we could have Tom DeLay set up so that a laugh track follows him everywhere he goes.
democommie, guest posting over at Jesus’ General had a great idea for Imus. He should go into the locker room of the Rutger’s Men’s Basketball team and call them “nappy haired pimps.”
SnarKassandra @ 72
And he’d buy them too – but only if they’re made of real girl scouts.
Imus scum bag
dakine01 @ 153
Corzine may have been coming back from Trenton.
dakine01 @ 154
He’s still there! Anderson Cooper (CNN) has someone camped out there
There’s another side to Imus that is not being recognized. I will not defend his hateful remarks nor his ridiculous attempts at ‘humor’.
But, you should all acknowledge that he is NOT LIKE Rush, Hannity etc.
He was a champion of many progressive causes and routinely had guests on to promote their ideas. One such cause that he undertook was investigating the link between vaccines and autism. Kennedy was on talking about it and Imus continued the debate for weeks (months?). Meanwhile his wife was meeting with Congressman trying to get legislation passed.
This is just one example. There are many others.
So you can hate him for his remarks but I fear that we have lost an ally on other issues.
I know that this will not make me popular at this site, but what I have written is the truth and it’s not being noted.
perris- I do wonder what Cassie is up to. I’m not sure she heard our advice.
here’s what the righteous and ever spot on Joe Conason has to say about Immie on Salon:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/c…..4/13/imus/
Also, I really DO wish this whole thing would go away……but agree with JSW that he’s not in the same league as Coulter, Rush, et al. Like comparing dog poop to arsenic….
isn’t Corzine (TM) some sort of medication?
punaise @ 161
Is an Imus scum bag a recyclable bag?
OT – The Turks are attacking the Kurds. This is not good.
Rutgers CNN…
Lots of tears…
Players: “Why us? Why us?”
TRex @
158
Oh, it’s there.
Oklahoma kiddo @
37
Eloquent, OKK. Speaking of decency.
Well forgive me for saying so, but that appears to be the law of the land here at FDL, and it certainly would explain why every comment I make is moderated.
While no one is getting a fat paycheck here, when I don’t hold my “tongue,” my comments just vanish into the mist. So if you’re going to complain about this sort of double-standard, make sure y’all look in the mirror, eh?
How you talk about something says a lot about how much you really care about it.
It’s fine with me if people bring up rap music, but there’s a difference between someone who says: This kind of language is horrible when a rapper says it and it’s horrible to hear it spoken by a leading voice on the airwaves… and someone who says: It’s so hypocritical to get mad at Imus and not be out there calling for rappers to clean up their acts.
In the first case, it’s somebody who cares about vile language everywhere and is using this opportunity to talk about getting it out of music. In the second case, it’s somebody talking about hypocrisy and who does or doesn’t have the moral highground. It’s not talking about the issue at all.
I personally think that it’s worse to hear that language from the mouth of somebody who hobnobs with the most powerful people on earth on a daily basis than it is to hear it from the lowest common denominator. But whatever… if you’re bringing it up because you’re mad about Al Sharpton or “double standards” then you’re not really demonstrating that you care about what Imus said about those young women. You just care about hypocrisy.
[I’m going to be in this space for the next few months, and will be, god help us all, setting Rudy Giuliani in my scopes. Had something ready, but thought that Imus’ firing outweighed a brief history lesson in Giuliania.]
Well, yay Watertiger. I’m looking forward to Rudy in your scopes. Randi promised something similar with her prayer”O please let him be-eth the nominee. Opleaseopleaseplease. I have SO much to tell…” I can’t wait to hear the real scoop these sanctimonious hypocrits.
LS @ 169
Unfortunately, this will probably make the Iranians happy.
I’ll be right back. I’m dropping some food off at the soup kitchen, then I’m going to hurl racist and degrading epithets at some college students.
-GSD
punaise @ 165
Stops the itching!
Some are concerned that World War III has alrady begun.
NorskeFlamethrower @ 132
Norske, I love you very much!
I think of you as a bright flame burning for the sake of our freedom and the basic dignity of “the least of our brethren.”
Like a bright perpetual flame, you bring warmth and inspiration in the darkness to us.
And like a bright perpetual flame, sometimes you can cause a burn or two, now and again.
Those who feel burnt will yell “ouch!” and that is as it should be! — but you come as a whole package, and you always return again to your steady warm flickering ways, after making peace again.
Please don’t stop “yelling” your inspiring mottos, urging us on to fight ever harder!!! I can’t believe that I’m the only one here who has felt uplifted by them, time and again, especially on otherwise very dark days.
These missing emails are starting to piss me off again. Even if they were deleted (which I doubt they are all gone unless there was a conspiracy – like Rove in the back room with the IT guys, or hiring a hacker to tunnel in).
In any case if you look at the law it seems pretty clear what needs to be kept – so you would get all outgoing and incoming email. Now I gotta think that includes any emails flying through the air within 1000 yards of the president. What Rove emails on his blackberry on his “own” time – I can’t believe the RNC does not have it.
Anyway my last point is that there would certainly be at least an audit trail to show how deleted what and when.
As for Imus the commnet was terrible. I hear some people say its was not so bad or that – hey what does it mean. Its 2007, its very clear what the comment means to 90% of working people (so there is work to be done against spreading stuff like this in music as well). Just the last part is “whore” – wow, how is that for a comment to learn when you walk off the court. He and others should go. You can see the folks who want to keep using these terms and spreading hate and bigotry want to get away with it so they can keep doing it. We may have finally come to a point where you can’t DJ/VJ lynch people and get away with it. I worked for a company I though was pretty smart – but they had a ton of dinosaurs there that would say the stupidest stuff over cube walls in a loud and proud manner (Ex. “My wife knows dinner better be ready, what else is she doing all day”; translation: I am a loud and proud funny conservative, and you can stuff your PC bullshit. Me: STFU nobody wants to hear your prattle). I can only imagine these and folks high above them want to act like this when they choose and keep their high paying jobs as well.
puppethead @ 152
But they are indeed the same: both are disgraceful, racist, sexually demeaning and vicious, and being broadcast on the airwaves. None of them are acceptable.
The funniest thing in all of this is how people are dragging the rappers into the fray over the use of the word “ho.”
1) Meg Ryan used the word in Sleepless in Seattle. It stopped being exclusive to the subculture of rap/hip hop that very second. It went mainstream at that very moment. So let’s blame Meg for all this, with the additional delicious twist that Rosie O’Donnell was the other actor in the scene!
2) How far does anyone think it would have flown if I’d broken a glass and my mom was getting on my case about it and I pointed at my brother and said, “But he broke one last week!”?
My mother would have grounded me for that alone. It doesn’t matter what the brother did. It’s about what I do, and whether or not it’s right or wrong.
Conclusion: Most of these “rappers do it too!” shrill monkeys just weren’t raised right.
JSW454 at 7:12 pm
He’s a squish like they all are. He has Mary Matalin on, but sometimes he really punishes her. He’s come around on the Iraq occupation, but who hasn’t? He still won’t hold Lieberman or McCain accountable. His ranch in NM came under very serious IRS scrutiny. I think he “managed” his way out of it, but my guess is that he gets a lot more out of it than he puts in. He raised a ton of money for the Center fo the Intrepid hospitial, but all that did was further enable the Walter Reed scandal. He says that he’s not Tim Russert, but that’s ingenuous. Once you let McCain, Lieberman, Biden, and others on to hit softballs, your misrepresenting the conversation to the public. Low information voters thought Don was really asking them tough questions.
neokneme @
9
heh heh – Helen will be awaiting for such a bozo!
All the other crap is NOTHING. It is the words people say in a position of power.
Imus said certain words, Beck, Limbaugh, etc.
Kramer.
They will be judged by their words and deeds, not if they are part of the “real battle”.
Be they would be part of the real battle if the “nappy ho’s” (Essentially: dirty, black haired, whores) was a comment aimed at you or your daughter. People should not be paid to spread this shit likes its butter.
no, it is not – linky ? source ?
LJ/Aquaria @ 181
It’s a mis-direction and common troll tactic. Try to raise the strawman argument as an excuse for whatever behavior they want to distract attention from.
Loo Hoo @
156
Dear God… Friendly or scolding BALROG!?
(either is welcome from you Loo Hoo…)
Prediction: Imus will invite the entire team to a vacation at his Ranch and get his job(s) back.
dakine01 @ 175
The two countries have actually been working together. Common ground for them both as they have Kurdish regions that they don’t want to let go of.
Apparently a spring offensive against the Kurds happens every year.
However, the Iraqi Kurds are planning on getting oil rich Kirkuk for their new homeland…which may include parts of Iran, Turkey, Syria.
-GSD
Ho = Whore
Imus called a nice, smart, hard-working womens b-ball team a bunch of whores.
Seems pretty simple.
Although, what appears to be new is the Turkish generals asking their leaders to allow them to make incursions into Iraq.
Seems that the Kurdish groups that the US likes alot are considered terrorists in Iran and Turkey because they blow shit up and kill people.
-GSD
LS @ 190
I hope he does. I deeply regret his being fired.
redX @ 190
One other thing missed in all this is he (and his other idiot cohorts) were as insulting to the TN women as well. They were holding them all up as sexual objects and it has basically tarnished the championship for TN.
maunga @
138
I disagree with your inclusion of Howard Stern in that list. In fact I came over to this thread to say how happy I am that he hasn’t been dragged into this; he doesn’t belong in any list with any of the other so-called “shock” jocks and especially not with Rush, Imus, and ESPECIALLY Malkin, Hannity, O’Reilly et. al. He is so much more intelligent and witty than all of them combined, and believe it or not, he actually has a heart and is really quite liberal. He’s nowhere near as offensive as people who’ve never heard him claim him to be, and he and his crew are really at their best when they’re just kind of riffing off each other, or the wonderful George Takei, or any number of great personalities. Howard is the real deal, all these other creeps are just rip-offs.
He also happens to be having a field day with Imus’s woes, they’ve been at loggerheads for twenty years and he’s finally getting his comeuppance. Howard is a real person, a man, unlike the macho chickenhawks polluting the rest of our airwaves.
Bababooey, o-qua tanzien wuan, and peace.
Balrog @ 20
Great point, Balrog.
GSD @ 190
When young men’s boredom turns to violence.
LJ/Aquaria @ 182
So it is all right for Imus to have used ‘ho’ because Meg Ryan said it in a movie? ‘Nappy-headed is all right because Stevie Wonder said it? Or is nappy-headed not OK, because that one was said by Stevie Wonder?
Yeah the rap thing is crap. IANAL, but what goes out on FCC controlled airways is a lot more scrutinized than what a musician can publish.
Rove DOES look like an evil baby, though, as somebody once wrote.
maunga @ 178
Different manifestations of a social problem. What happens with Imus has very little to do with getting record labels to stop trafficking in demeaning rap music. Maybe Imus losing his show is a sign of changing cultural norms and record labels will be less likely to promote the next 50 Cent. But to say Imus should be left alone because rappers are worse is not a good argument.
Loo Hoo @172 7:18pm
;0)
solai @ 163
“vaccines and autism” ?
We can blame imus for the mumps too!
JoyB @ 200
I don’t dispute this, nor am I innocent of calling him Porky Pig. I am as guilty of what I question as anyone here.
LS @ 190
The last place on earth those world class women would visit is the creep and his ranch. Among their great victories is taking the jerk off the air and they deserve medals of honor here, there and everywhere, me thinks.
The media, print and TV left a few things out for some reason. It’s worse…
IMUS: That’s some rough girls from Rutgers. Man, they got tattoos and –
McGUIRK: Some hard-core hos.
IMUS: That’s some nappy-headed hos there. I’m gonna tell you that now, man, that’s some — woo. And the girls from Tennessee, they all look cute, you know, so, like — kinda like — I don’t know.
McGUIRK: A Spike Lee thing.
IMUS: Yeah.
McGUIRK: The Jigaboos vs. the Wannabes — that movie that he had.
IMUS: Yeah, it was a tough –
legaleze @ 150
I was up in the middle of the night again, with pain, and decided to check out what MSNBC was doing with the Imus time slot — I only caught the last half of it I think, and came in the middle of discussion.
It surprised me to see David Gregory (whose other comments over the past week have pissed me off enormously) hosting several guests, including the regular Eugene Robinson, a professor from Univ. of Penna (didn’t recognize him) and Naomi Campbell.
What surprised me more than the format — which included phone calls from viewers — was the blunt discussion about racism and sexism in America, in terms of topics not usually covered.
Naomi Campbell talked about the support Imus had received from numerous white male pundits including Gregory himself — and she spoke bluntly about the “white boys’ club” being alive and well. She also covered the double angle by which the black women on the Rutgers team get hammered, all the time — the racism/sexism of white men, and the sexist objectification in the black community amplified in the worst that rap & hip-hop serve up.
The professor from Penn went on to talk about the profound sickness of American culture, and the reluctance of Americans to truly face up to its real (not imagined, Hollywoodized) history of racism, opression, genocide, and centuries of misogyny.
I was actually pretty impressed — the callers in the segments I saw had obviously been selected by the call monitors for having intelligent critiques to offer, too.
If the events of the past week can lead to that kind of on-air discussion, I’m happy about that as a start to a much-needed process.
JSW454 I agree. Lumping Imus in with Coulter, Beck and Hannity is a huge mistake. Imus is a COMEDIAN. You may not like his comedy; you may think it in bad taste, offensive, even racist and sexist, but it’s still an attempt at comedy, just as rap is an attempt at music. Imus made a mistake, admitted it and apologized and got fired. When was the last time Coulter admitted a mistake or apologized for anything she said? There really isn’t a comparison to be made here and those that strive to make it are running dangerously close IMHO to an extreme form of political correctness that will become a straight jacket on our freedom of thought and expression.
And before anyone says I’m defending Imus, forget about it. I’m not. I don’t like the guy and never did. He’s not funny. What he said was offensive. But the reaction is way out of proportion to what Imus did relative to what goes on in this country, and this country’s media every day.
Here’s a little brief reading on the current situation between Iraqi Kurdistan and Turkey.
From Al Jazeera.
-GSD
Balrog @ 195
Oh, BRAVO!!
maunga @ 199
Uh, hello? Did I need to include a /sarcasm tag on there?
Mrs. K8 @180 7:20pm
I like what said.
;0)
Or maybe /satire…
Dover Bitch @ 172
Yes!!!!
Excellent point.
Mrs. K-8 at 208. I stand corrected and better informed. Thank you for providing that background. I hope that kind of discussion continues as that is what this country needs.
legaleze @ 209
If he’s just a “comedian”, why does every member of the political elite have to stop by his show on a daily basis? I don’t care what his actual job title is. The man is a dickhead and should have been shut down when he called Gwen Ifill “the cleaning lady”.
This has been a long time coming.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 213
OKKiddo, Mrs. K8, Norske, I agree as well. I hope you understand that there was context to my disdain in my post.
Imus is just a bad comedian that made a single mistake? Hah, he’s been offensive for years. His sidekicks are as bad or worse, and he encourages it by having them there. If you’re going to argue it from that point, may I point out Andrew Dice Clay? He’s a comedian that decided being offensive was a good career move. It worked for a while, until people got disgusted with his schtick. He’s not so popular anymore.
TRex @ 217
Or idiots McGuirk and McCord calling Jill Carroll a terrorist for trying to stay alive after her kidnapping.
Wow, this thread is crazy.
Who are all these new commenters w/ such strong first posts?
Seems Imus turns the heat up around here.
As for my opinion (as if any of you care), I never listen to the guy, but I did like hearing him rip Mary Matalin one am. Otherwise I had little use for him.
The young women who were abused deserved better, and he’s a real shit for doing what he did.
Oh, and Norske, I love you man. The attack on you was totally unwarranted, imo.
/soapbox>
Balrog, you’re once again our Fascist Troll?!
Thanks Coz.
Rutgers caved. From what I am hearing it was the Coach’s minister who got things moving. He’s Joe Biden kind of African American, amazingly “clean” and “articulate.”
Then it was that the Press Conference that Rutgers finally held. I certainly didn’t recognize it, but that photo op is probably what killed Imus. Jesus’ General has been amazing on the whole thing. For maybe the first time since I have been going there, he posted out of his “innerFrenchman” in one post about it.
If it wasn’t the photo op, it was Oprah. She emphasized the male supremacy, that everyone on the right wants to ignore. The clips I saw of her, she talked to them as “women,” not as African Americans. I still maintain if Imus had stopped with the “nappy hair,” he would have survived. Rutgers has two European American players. The whore comment made it more than just another example of white supremacy.
dakine01 @ 220
TRex, if anybody ever calls you “chicken,” you have to just agree now. Somebody found evidence of it.
Snarkassandra @ 66
The relocation camps put people in because they were Japanese by ancestry were what I would call concentration camps. Barbed wire-topped fences, guard posts with lights and guns, even when miles from anywhere (Manzanar is so far out that you’d need at least half a day in a car to get anywhere, even now).
newspaperbrat @ 206
I didn’t say they would go. I said he would invite them. I think those young women are outstanding, and I’m sorry their moment of achievement was marred by a prominent moron and his nerd cohorts who thought they were being funny and cool. These women have everything going for them. Clearly Imus and his buddies don’t. But that is today…2 weeks from now…whole new ballgame…who knows.
Imus, among racist, right-wing “shock” jocks:
FIFO!
(Except for the one that Spocko bagged, of course. But I recall Imus in the 70s as a major ratchet up. Maybe now that ratchet’ll turn the other way.)
Urban Pirate @
221
The ONLY thing I thought Imus had going was some of his musical guests like Delbert McClinton.
P J Evans @ 226
We read the book FAREWELL TO MANZANAR in 6th grade. Great book. Sad story.
Balrog @ 189
You’ve got mail, buddy boy.
TRex @ 217
I think the problem in the blogosphere is that this victory seems hollow, since there are so many worser people out there that are doing the same thing only worse.
Fuck Civility!
dakine01 @ 229
I have been here a few weeks but no strong posts on here today.
Mrs. K8 @ 214
Excellent point.
You make so many good ones here, Mrs. K8, that makes my night. :)
dakine01 @
229
This is the ONLY thing he ever had going for him.
Look, Imus is someone that morphed from being a shock-jock to being a trusted member of the beltway elite.
People bring up the comedian angle and I’ll tell ya something. I am a comedian. I travel around to clubs in New England and tell jokes for a few hundred bucks a night…..
Imus is a highly paid radio/tv personality who has become very close with the most powerful elements of American politics and media.
He’s not a comedian.
He tells some jokes and does some schtick no doubts…but he’s not simply a comedian.
Notice the comparisons…to rap artists….why isn’t anyone making comparisons betweem Imus and John Stewart or Stephen Colbert or Jay Leno?
They all do a great job and don’t launch ad hominem attacks on female college students, who are members of society who have been placed on the bottom tier of the power pyramid for hundreds of years.
They didn’t deserve the abuse, Imus should have known better.
-GSD
P.S. When I do a corporate show I don’t do any dick jokes because I know that some things go in certain environments and some things don’t.
perris- sigh, Cassie is ignoring our good advice.
legaleze at 7:32 pm
You’re right that Imus is different from Coulter, but Lieberman, McCain, Biden, Kerry, Russert, Tweety, Fineman, ….. do not routinely give interviews to Anne.
He balanced elite opinion makers, political powerhouses, very talented musical acts with his male, white, and hetero supremacy. It’s that mixture that made him so powerful and so toxic.
OT, I think he was trying to steal more NASCAR viewers away from Fox Noise, so I think he was consciously trying to push this particular envelope.
TRex, I can’t stand Imus. I am not defending him or what he said. My point is this: firing him is a bandage, it’s just a tactical move to dodge the real issue; to avoid having to deal with racism and sexism in the media. Furthermore, we’ve unleashed a torrent of PC argument that may come back to haunt those of us who value our freedom of expression.
Guitar_Playing_Bastard @ 236
Yes.
Mack @ 233
I keep telling people we can raise the level of discourse once we’ve reduced the repukes to their “southern strategy” and nothing else, but no one takes me seriously because I’m not polite about it.
It is why, even now, our power is very marginal.
GSD – related to the topic of redrawn borders, take a look at this commentary:
http://live.armedforcesjournal.com/2006/06/1833899
In the redrawn map, the Kurds come out large. To think Turkey, Iran, and Syria wouldn’t have something to say about that is an understatement.
Mack @
233
Right in its fucking ear
;>)
Guitar_Playing_Bastard @ 236
Givin’ it up for your love, GTB.
-GSD
Balrog the Fascist Troll @ 216
Oh, of course! Please do not mistake my remarks for being any criticism of you. I understand that our Norske DOES get hot under the collar, and says things which may “burn” others.
[I hope you will eliminate the new modification to your “handle” — because it certainly isn’t true, and I for one would never suggest such a thing, ever.]
SnarKassandra (who was Cassie) @ 234 says
Wha!?! You’ve had some very strong posts here today! Or am I just being my usual obtuse self and missing the sarcasm? (I am often an idiot in case you haven’t figured it out as yet).
Valley Girl @ 238
I may write up a whole post of my own on the subject but not today
GSD @
245
GTB?
Thanks for the love. :-)
JoyB @ 201
Evil is the operant word.
SnarKassandra @
66
A concentration camp does not have to be a death camp. The original meaning was essentially a place where undesireables were concentrated. Guantanamo is a concentration camp, for example. The conflation of the two terms occurred with World War II.
OT- So glad PBS NewsHour tonight included this Vonnegut wisdom in their obit piece:
“I have worried some about why I write books when presidents and generals do not read them.” Vonnegut concluded at the end that the trick is to catch them at school, “before they become generals and senators and presidents and poison their minds with humanity.”
And when asked what sort of writer he would most
like to be known as, Kurt Vonnegut replied, “George Orwell.”
Late to this party, so: WELCOME WATERTIGER, to the weeknights!
GSD @ 245
Seen me some Delbert a few times and he ain’t never had a bad show that I’ve seen.
GSD @ 210
Bush: “What do you mean my war is out of control!? Get me a damn War Czar, and I mean YESTERDAY. You can reach me by RNC email at the ranch. My new superduper email is: Warpresidnit@GWB43.com. I have seen the google maps on those tooobs, and I know the difference between Turkey and Kurds. One is for the main course and the other is for the cheese. Now, move along and don’t bother me, I’m on vacation until Imus comes back – right Karl?”
GSD @ 235
Aha! GSD. That makes me love you all the more. I “travel around to undergraduate lectures”, and occasionally, when I can, do stand-up comedy.
GiTarplayingBastard.
-GSD
You’re going to be up against people who have an
opinion, a modem, and a bathrobe. All of my life,
developing credentials to cover my field of work, and
now I’m up against a guy named Vinny in an efficiency
apartment in the Bronx who hasn’t left the efficiency
apartment in two years” — Brian Williams, anchor of
the “NBC Nightly News,” speaking before New York
University journalism students on the challenges
traditional journalism faces from online media. (Source: WSJ)
I just copied this from americablog. So, tell me…did he choose the name ‘Vinny’ to imply that this slacker is Italian?
TeddySanFran @ 250
memo to self: stick to bashing Rudy Giuliani’s hypocrisy next week. screw topicality.
Imus and McGurk also are big time hetero supremacists. Let’s not lose site of their gay bashing.
Of course there is backlash from the right, there always will be. That’s a consequence of a very significant victory. Above, a lot of commenters already made the point that this will shorten the leash that Rush and others are on.
I miss Billmon.
We covered hateful words a few months ago. The “c” word [edited by Mod to clear the moderation filters] was used by a resident Blogger. Tone and context mean just about everything when choosing words. I didn’t care for Imus’ tone, but then I’ve never cared for him. That’s why I don’t listen.
My point in bringing up Stevie Wonder is, I don’t much care what Imus says.
This is what I care about: Two weeks ago a friend asked me to make arrangements to have some “stuff” picked up from his farm because he though I would probably get a better deal. I got a good price for the job. The contractor showed up, assessed the situation, and tried to convince my friend that 1000 pounds was a ton. And the job looks tougher than he thought, it will be $120 per 1000 pound ton, not $100.
My friend is black, I am white. I care about this first because it happened, but also because my friend expected that it might happen. So fuck Imus, actions speak volumes, words are whispers in comparison.
maunga @ 199
I like large tents. Room to move.
Imus made some disrespectful remarks about some remarkable teenagers.
The remarks in context were not in the least humorous, but sounded like a senior white man trying to be relevant and succeeding only in offending.
He may claim to be a comedian, but has consistently presented himself as a commentator.
The two are not compatible.
There is no longer any appropriate broadcast space for the man.
Imus is yesterday’s news
Thank god.
P J Evans @
226
I’ve driven past Manzanar numerous times without even knowing it was there. When We first came to Cali (on the way to Palmdale on 395) I stayed at an old hundred(?) – hundred and fifty year old(?) – Hotel on the main street in Independence. Then when we moved to Reno from Palmdale we went back up 395 about 3 or 4 times
I thought being PC meant you think about your words and mean the words you say.
old gold @
105
Yeah, prior acts like calling journalist Gwen Ifill “the cleaning lady.”
I’m sorry, the guy has a long history of saying offensive things about minorities and women, especially minority women.
Norske is right: You don’t get a free pass as a mass murderer just because you gave millions to X charity. My mama raised me to take responsibility for my mistakes, and to learn from them, no matter how many other good things I was doing–or what anyone else had done. If I forgot my curfew once, okay, no big deal, be more careful next time. If I did it again, punishment. A third offense… There wasn’t a third offense! I wasn’t stupid.
Imus is responsible for his bad behavior. Imus has had numerous opportunities to correct his behavior. He never learned. Maybe this will finally sink it into that thick skull of his.
watertiger @ 259
Please remember to bash him mightily with Amadou Diallo and Abner Luima and the other results of “Giuliani Time.”
dakine01 @ 247
Wha!?! You’ve had some very strong posts here today! Or am I just being my usual obtuse self and missing the sarcasm? (I am often an idiot in case you haven’t figured it out as yet).
What was strong? Strong = good? or strong = obnoxious?
Urban Pirate @ 261
I want to be a lion tamer.
Valley Girl @ 256
Ha….we’re kin. Snowed out of work tonight! Damn, I needed the 75$ and the 10% off of a meal too.
-GSD
Cassie,
Strong=Good
Guitar_Playing_Bastard @ 236
I saw him play in a small shopping center parking lot here in Fort Worth, circa 1989. He’s still alive? ; )
Delbert McClinton taught John Lennon how to play “Love Me Do” on the harmonica.
Delbert McClinton kicked ass!
(is that uncivil?)
Dante had his usurers. I have my hypocrites.
Imus showed his true colors today, by bashing Harold Ford, Jr. He wanted Ford to be his “black” friend. LMAO.
If Imus had any balls/ovaries instead of going after Ford, he would have bashed Lieberman4Lieberman, whose bacon he saved after Lamont smashed him in the Primary. Among other concerns, MSNBC and CBS knew Imus would have a tough time getting the A list interviews to come back on the show.
Ha….we’re kin. Snowed out of work tonight! Damn, I needed the 75$ and the 10% off of a meal too.
-GSD
Did my time in the mid ’80s.
Cozumel @
272
Bigger than ever. I’ve gone on the Cruise twice. the most fun you can have with your pants on.
Urban Pirate @ 221
I listen, Urban Pirate, to you. Can’t listen to Imus, Hannity, Bush, Limbaugh, Cheney, Abu however.
Mostly I listen to watertiger, et.al.
Will you bring your kewl little incivility button over here to FDL, double-you-tee?
Balrog @ 269
I miss Kurt Vonnegut.
Cozumel @ 272,
I knew of Delbert for years but first saw him live at a street fair/freebie in Utica, NY in the early 90s. Saw him at a great venue in CT (Old Oakdale) when he opened for LIttle Feat in ‘95 then again at the new Oakdale a year or so later on a bill opened by Kenny Wayne Shepherd, then Delbert, Neville Brothers, and BB King as headline. GREAT show by all.
Breaking News:
Congress has subpoenaed George W. Bush’s coloring books and his Etch-A-Sketch.
-GSD
TeddySanFran @ 280
Sorta like the Easy Button, but when you press it is says
“Piss off”
dakine01 @ 271
Then you should visit my blogs. :)
http://youthinkleft.com/
http://frecklescassie.wordpress.com/
The RNC email web is like “Ice Nine”.
Watertiger: love your posts, love your blog.
Balrog @ 232
There is no such word as worser. Talk to Keith Olbermann.
dakine01 @
282
Delbert…is God.
TeddySanFran @ 277
We each of us carry a little incivility seal of approval in our hearts, ami.
TRex, the blogging chicken, upstairs.
Tithonia @ 284
oh garsh! thanks!
I’ve been a bit neglectful of late. Freakin’ work.
Alright, who killed noodle’s comment? I actually typed from the heart for once.
I love ice-9!
I am tired to hell of the “good works” argument that’s supposed to excuse bigoted hatespeech from a faux cowboy who’s sucked up to by the likes of David Gregory, Tom Oliphant, Chris Matthews, Andrea Mitchell, Chris Dodd, Rudi Ghouliani and many other important leaders and opinion-makers in our society.
Nobody’s telling me what to think — I thought all on my own that Imus’ words were hateful, uncalled for and deserving of firing. And the wonderful thing is: it worked! Rush Limbaugh told his listeners today that “they are coming for me next.” Yes we are, Rush, yes we are, and so are the corporations who’ve decided what’s acceptable. You are next.
SnarKassandra (who was Cassie) @
286
Thanks Cassie. I had actually already visited youthinkleft. It’s good to know that there are younger folks willing to continue the fight. Been at it W-A-Y too long myself. At least feels that way sometimes.
And, oh yeah, TRex and Late Night upstairs.
GSD @ 283
Karl erased the Etch-A-Sketch…No word yet on whether the RNC had backup coloring books.
;>)
Hi Cassie. I’ve seen you around lately but we haven’t been formally introduced. :) Glad you’re here.
Watertiger, as you probably know those of us who lived in NYC under Guiliani’s “reign” can’t stand the guy.
I’m thinking now about his experiment to corral pedestrian traffic in midtown using metal barricades. Could only cross at certain streets, and only exactly at the crosswalk – meaning that you couldn’t EXIT the avenues until everyone in front of you made it through the “gate”, while traffic barreled down at you.
Nothing like young and old turned into freightened cattle trying to run the gauntlet.
It brought home the police state feeling better than most of his other stunts.
GSD @ 283
White House Counsel Fred Fielding argued that the Etch-A-Sketch, not actually being made of paper, was exempt from the Presidential Records Act. Representative Conyers replied that Mr Fielding was “full of crap.”
Guitar_Playing_Bastard @ 278
Delbert’s good but he’s no John Mayall, IMO ; )
He’s still kicking too…
John Mayall, (born 29 November 1933)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mayall
dakine01 @ 282
smapdi @ 294
The Dead, right?
Balrog @ 205
if this goes to the comment way back about how porcine adject
GSD @ 283
Not the pacifier, I hope.
TeddySanfran: “they are coming for me next.” Yes we are, Rush, yes we are, and so are the corporations who’ve decided what’s acceptable. Well that is a great point. Corporations decide what’s acceptable . . . . We are all in big trouble when we defer to what the corporations “think”.
youkillednoodle @
294
Noodle, do you mean the one at #262? The mods needed to edit it before it would clear the filters. Sorry for the delay.
cleter @ 281
Me Too!! Been too long since I’ve read his stuff. I must have given away 4 dozen copies of cat’s cradle – felt it was the best gift I could give people I cared about. Man, that is such a loss.
All these voices passing on lately it seems. Puts more pressure on us to become the leaders we so desperately crave. Fuck.
Never again to hear Dick Cheney called PorkChopButt.
As far as I know, Imus has still not offered an apology to the girls he smacked. Lots of excuses in his own defense, but no apologies to the girls (I call them girls, because they are…peoples daughters).
He crapped his bed. Now he gets to sleep in it.
So it goes.
Gunga Djinn @
309
He did tonight, per CNN
Jason Whitlock appearing on CNN -if people want to do something for the black community it would be to end the incarceration for victimless crimes. I agree completely – a great legacy of the ipus affair would be to end the criminalization of pot and sex.
SnarKassandra (who was Cassie) @ 229
Cassie,
When I was a kid, I lived in Santa Fe, NM. A new housing development started up in the late 1950s and became very popular. Years later I learned that this had been the site of a Japanese internment camp.
http://www.nps.gov/archive/manz/ccdoj.htm
youkillednoodle @
130
Context is everything. Read these lyrics. Or better yet, listen to the music behind them. Then listen to what Imus said. See the difference?
Civility, like trust, has to be earned. It is almost as if the “in group” is saying to us dirty insignificant unwashed ‘and who do you think you are.’ Well, they’re gonna find that they don’t speak for even a small portion of America. So let them go to their parties, and father their out-of-wedlock children, and tell the rest of us that we should be following their rules to make them rich. Doesn’t mean it’s going to happen.
I’m no Imus fan but good lord they threw that fucker under the bus when the likes of Flush Limpballs, Ohshanity, and Bleck are allowed to spew hate every damn day.
Woodhall at 313:
Take this hammer, carry it to the captain
Take this hammer, carry it to the captain
Take this hammer, carry it to the captain, tell him I’m gone, you tell him I’m gone.
An if he ask you was I runnin
An if he as you, was I runnin
An if he ask you was I runnin, you tell him I was flyin, tell him I was flyin.
Captain call me, a nappy-headed devil,
Captain call me, a nappy-headed devil,
Captain call me, a nappy-headed devil,
Hurts my pride, yeah, hurts my pride.
If anyone remembers where that’s from, you also remember that those days are gone!
Does anyone even read any of these comments? Ha.
marshen @
317
Yes.
Now let’s see how the networks handle their other albatrosses.
That’s the skunk at the garden party! What will the networks do?
Gunga Djinn @ 309
He absolutely did apologize. He actually met with them and their coach and apologized in person.
Perris @ 65: “I just think this should have been left up to the women he insulted, not sharpton, not us…the women he hurt.”
The result of such a scenario would be that the young women who had already been insulted would then endure the hateful spew of his disappointed listeners (I’m not including you in that category, Perris), who would probably blame the players for getting their favorite radio personality fired. The responsibility for his firing rests with the corporate entity who puts him on the airwaves. Bring back the Fairness Doctrine!!!
By way of underscoring what I mean, Imus’ wife wants his fans’ hate mail to the Rutgers Womens Basketball team directed to her:
“Mrs. Imus, sounding drained, asks that people stop directing hate mail to the members of the Rutgers women’s basketball team. “Send the hate mail to my husband,” she insists.”
From Raw Story.