Everyone in the news media with a functioning brain knows by now that the Republican slime job against the Syrian leg of Nancy Pelosi's trip to the Mideast is bogus. It has been documented to a fare-thee-well by ThinkProgress and other outfits that:
- Unlike Newt Gingrich and Dennis Hastert when Clinton was president, she wasn't out to sabotage the guy in the White House (and honest Republicans have confirmed this again and again).
- A Republican congressman, David Hobson (R-OH) was part of her entourage.
- Republican Congressmen like Joe Pitts, Frank Wolf, Robert Aderholt and Darrell Issa have spent the past few weeks and months racking up tons of frequent-flyer miles going to Syria to do what Bush won't do openly: Work with Syria.
- Bush was given a chance to object to or even stop Pelosi's plans to visit Syria, and said nothing.
- Despite pressure from the Bush White House on Olmert to retroactively deny this, she did indeed carry messages of peace from Israel to Syria's president Assad.
So, everyone knows all this by now — at least, everyone in the press should know this. My hometown newspaper, the Minneapolis StarTribune does — or at least their blog watcher, Tim O'Brien, does.
Which is why it was such a shock to see, in the print edition of the StarTribune, a letter to the editor that was nothing but a tissue of GOP lies from start to finish:
PELOSI IN SYRIA
Sounds like treason
What a great job Nancy Pelosi is doing as speaker of the House.
She is spending the taxpayers' money by flying around the world, consorting with sworn enemies of the United States and doing her best to undermine the president and his foreign policies. She is fueling the fires of the radical extreme Muslim terrorists who have sworn to bring down the United States and the Christian world as a whole.
In years past and during previous wars, such actions would be considered treason and the person would be prosecuted.
PAUL BAKER, RICHMOND
Here's why this really frosts me:
As a little fledgling, well before I had molted into my adult Phoenix plumage, I remember writing my very first letters to the editor. My first attempt produced a phone call from a nice, patient lady who explained to me that even though letters were opinions, they had to have some basis in fact or they couldn't be published. If I said something, I had to document it.
This was reinforced repeatedly over the years, with a variety of newspapers, as I grew more loquacious and cussed and disputatious. Always, I was told: We can't publish your letter unless you can show what you're saying is true. We don't want to be caught printing lies.
So from that day to this, whenever I say something, be it a letter to the editor or a piece at FDL or my own blog, I do my level best — using web links when possible, cites from print copies of books or periodicals when not — to back up whatever it is I'm saying.
And now I find that, at least where Republicans are concerned, they can say anything they damned well want, true or not — even when everyone knows it's a lie — and the paper will still publish it.
Why?
I know I shouldn't be shocked by this. I know it shouldn't surprise me that even the StarTribune, which is constantly under attack by right-wing nutjobs for no decent reason, cowers whenever Republicans clear their throats. (Especially since the former editor, Anders Gyllenhaal, was into treating irrefutable facts as he-said/she-said, and prone to jump when the local arm of the Republican Noise Machine ordered it; it was under his watch that the paper hired longtime archconservative D.J. Tice to run the paper's political coverage, added more syndicated wingnuts to its editorial page, and even hired a complete ninny by the name of Katherine Kersten to provide the latest in barely-filtered Republican talking points to the Strib's largely liberal readership.)
But still, I can't help asking:
Why?



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the rot runs deep
PW!
So is this another case of, “Project Much?” on the part of the righties?
Hmmm. Weren’t there rumors of Kissinger ruining the peace talks in ‘68 and George Senior getting the Iranians to hold the Hostages until Reagan assumed office?
And don’t forget, Pelosi is going to Iran!
I know this because it’s all over Faux and talk radio.
PW. What with Michele Bachmann, God’s Chosen from the 6th and now a 33 year old US Attorney Paulose who lists Sunday School teacher on her professional resume, Paul Wellstone must be tossing in his grave for Minnesota.
Israel almost shot down Continental Airlines passenger plane.
I like this letter to the Editor better:
BUSH IN IRAQ
Sounds like treason
What a great job Bush is doing as Commander in Chief.
He is spending the taxpayers’ money by flying troops unnecessarily around the world based on lies, creating new enemies of the United States and doing his best to undermine America and its foreign policies. He is fueling the fires of the radical extreme Muslim terrorists who have sworn to bring down the United States and the Christian world as a whole.
In years past and during previous wars, such actions would be considered treason and the person would be prosecuted.
Phoenix Woman,
Send this in to all the papers printing the lies. Your point is very well made.
lolo
Howdy!
EPU’ed from last thread but still somewhat on topic here:
Isn’t this the fourth (at least) smear campaign mounted against Pelosi?
There was the original flap over her support of Murtha for the majority leader spot. Steny Hoyer chosen; Pelosi dealt humiliating defeat, etc.
There was the plane for the Speaker of the House. First thing she does when she gets in office is order up a humungorific plane. Power crazed, I tell ye, power crazed.
There was the one over the Iraq supplemental. Pelosi can’t even get her own people to support this bill. Ha! Then it passes. Well, well, it has pork in it, should be a clean bill, doesn’t fund the troops, blah, blah, blah.
Now there is the trip to Syria. Well, I’m not questioning her patriotism but what’s she doing making nice with terrorists?
I think we can expect many, many more of these attacks.
Why?
Because it’s easier than dealing with reality.
The Republicans and wingnuts are a cult of immaturity. They’re promoting an adolescent worldview of guns, babes who know their place, action, bad guys, and no responsibility. When that view is challenged they lie – it’s not as if they’re aobut truth, responsibility, or mature behavior. They’re trying to maintain their fantasy world.
Me, I’m expecting they’ll greet a Democratic President and more Democrats in congress with a complete meltdown.
Yeah, they don’t want to give up the ghost. I ran across the following this morning in the Tallahassee Democrat:
Will Democrats seek
to prosecute Pelosi?
Nancy Pelosi’s delusions of grandeur in the Middle East recently have been hailed by Democrats as some sort of triumph of diplomacy. I, however, have a better phrase for them: violation of the Logan Act, which provides a fine or imprisonment for “any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government . . . with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government . . . in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States.”
It will be interesting to see how quickly the same Democrats who swarmed like cockroaches on President Bush for firing at-will employees will show consistency in their regard for our nation’s laws and demand that Pelosi be prosecuted. Odds are, of course, that the law need not apply to Pelosi. Bush can’t fire attorneys whom he appointed even though Clinton was well within his rights to fire the U.S. attorney in Arkansas who was investigating him. It is the same “logic” that convinces some people that illegal aliens are just “undocumented” or that the Constitution is a “liquid” document. It’s just the usual convenient Democratic attitude toward the laws of our country.
SAMUEL BERKOWITZ
gnucrew@yahoo.com
I thought about responding but I don’t think there’s anything you can say to these folks, they so want to be seen as the victims.
I have a “Why?” as well. Why has there been complete silence re Diane Feinstein’s recent resignation from her military subcommittee seat amid allegations that she funneled lucrative military contracts to her husband’s company? Sky nEws and Hannity reported it, but noone else that I’ve seen. Does she get a pass because she’s a Democrat? She shouldn’t.
Factsies? We doan need no stinkin’ factsies!!!
I seem to remember reading stories that William Casey was pulling some back door shenanigans in ‘80 to convvince the Iranians to not release the hostages until after Carter was gone. Which they did. Something about wanting to avoid the (now) dreaded October Surprise.
PW. Just want you to know that I lurked off and on over at your site. I just love it that you are here, EVERYDAY !!
lolo
Concern troll?
LS @ 7
Prosecutors dropped all charges Wednesday against the three Duke lacrosse players accused of sexually assaulting a stripper at a party, saying the athletes were innocent victims of a “tragic rush to accuse” by an overreaching district attorney.
A lot of the moonbats here are upset with this!!
I’m STILL waiting for Hobson (R-Septic Leechfield) to tell everybody that he was along, too. I know nothing about him, but his fucking partisan silence breeds a lot of disdain.
Being an empty shell of a dried-up scum-bag might explain his reticence.
ive seen that very letter before, elsewhere..
David Scherrey @ 17
Who cares, that is old news.
Thanks, PW, nice post. You know, I don’t get it either.
Perhaps W’s foreign policy is to show our “enemies” just how confused the U.S’ foreign policy is. If we had adults in the White House and they objected to the speaker’s actions, don’t you think they’d invite her over for a private lunch and read her the riot act? Anger, used effectively, can be used to your advantage.
Instead, they decide to have Elliot Abrams start a public pissing match. The whole thing just makes the U.S. look completely foolish.
Why ?
Because “they” can get away with it. What other reason do “they” need ? It is, of course, ALL about “them” and their projected fantasies.
“Politics is just high school with guns and more money” – Frank Zappa
I was trying to remember the name of the House member who led the charge against Pelosi on the sergeant at arms request for a plane issue knowing it was bogus.
I thought he was from Florida so I was wiki-ing some Florida Congresspeople. I found this entry under Jeff Miller.
I blame Fox. I think the reporting of lies as fact on Fox, the resultant drive at CNN, ABC, and other networks to match or beat Fox in any way they can (meaning: reporting lies with a straight face, panels of pundants who are not challenged on their GOP lies, and the use of the term “some say” as an excuse to push the interview back toward a lie) has created an atmosphere where outright lies are acceptable statements.
Additionally, fighting for ratings and subscriptions has meant pandering to the vocal right wing nutcases. Beating Fox means pulling Fox viewers away, and that means doing Fox-type “news”.
Newspapers are even more complicated, because in addition to having wingers moving into editorial and publishing positions, they’ve got falling subscription rates to combat and nervous execs facing angry shareholders. Cutting costs at the newspaper has reduced the local reporting staff and resulted in running more AP and wire service stories.
Plus there’s this: if the president and vice president can lie with a straight face, and the media outlet doesn’t challenge them on their twisting of the truth but reports their statements as news, how can they challenge a citizen who voices the same lying position? It’s a difficult position to be in.
David 17,
I’m sorry, I don’t get what you are saying…?
Just so you know? I am embarrassed and alarmed that my hometown produced Paul Baker and his ilk. Someone in an earlier comment spoke of the rot going to the core. We are considered part of the heartland, and the fetid stench of this piece is worse than lutefisk. Was reading at Carpetbagger earlier today about Iaccoca’s (how many C’s?) book and comments totally eviscerating Bush. Now Iaccoca is no angel by most definitions, but he’s spot on this week.
Minnesota’s Amy Klobuchar beat the pants off a Bushie in the Senate race because she didn’t allow herself to get sucked in to this kind of crap (pardon me). Nancy Pelosi needs to march on in spite of the Paul Bakers of this world. I am now off to see what I can find out about this guy.
mc >
Exactly !
According to plan. Think about it.
“For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill” – Sun Tzu
sedrunsic @ 19
Can you find it??
Hugh @
23
I think it was ccalled Adam Putnam.
lolo @ 20
You would have been happy if these 3 innocent young men had spent 30 years in jail..
SteveA @ 12
I have to agree with the writer as we all know only Republicans are allowed to screw up foreign policy. It’s in the Constitution someplace. *g*
eCAHNomics @ 134
Brendan @ 124
Amerian & Israeli neocons don’t wand peace in Israel. They want all the territory. Have you noticed how silent Israel has become after Saudi Arabia renewed call for discussions about Palestinian state in 1967 borders. Nope, can’t talk to them on the basis for peace unless Israel gets it all.
from Kathleen
Nancy was recently booed at the A*I*P*A*C conference. Not surprised that she is being targeted by the Jewish Republican coalition. She did have Rep Lantos (Lantos survived a Nazi labor camp, and lost many of his family members in the WWII Holocaust) with her in Syria. Why she is being slammed this hard for extending an olive branch is counter-productive. It makes one wonder if it is true that Israel may not want Peace?
We know the defense contractors who are getting rich making sales in the middle east do not want Peace.
read the article at Haartz “Israel does not want peace”
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/846420.html
This debate having to do with the Israeli lobby at Cooper Union received very little MSM coverage. Surprised?
Really worth watching the whole debate
http://www.scribemedia.org/200…..ael-lobby/
Another great debate about the I/P conflict at Democracy Now
http://www.democracynow.org/fi…..nami.shtml
Another great website filled with info about the I/P conflict.
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
Edited by Mod *
Why?
because they can, that’s why.
yellowdogD @
4
Then off to cavort with Sheik Omar and the Taliban. But first, she has to stop off at the FAUX studios, so Bill O’Reilly can fit her out for her birka.
I assume everyone must know by now that the Pentagon has announced that all 145,000 troops will have their tours extended by three months.
LS @
25
I think a couple of concern trolls are lurking.
I always hate when these uneducated hacks bring religion into the debate. Syria is about to bring down the Christian world ? Do they even know there’s a Christian population in Syria (obviously a minority, but still) ? One of my best friend is both Syrian and Christian. I cringed when her country was put on the axis of evil. It’s so easy to label people yo know nothing about.
dakine01 @ 35
I guess they didn’t read the actual post…
I’ve long wondered these same thoughts about the LTE section of the Star and Trib. Also, why Katherine Kersten has a job at any news organization, let alone the Star and Trib is beyond me. Just her atrocious writing alone should get her sent to the back of the class.
kathleen @ 30
It’s not that the Israel doesn’t want peace. It’s the neocons in Israel & U.S. who don’t want peace.
Everyone knows what the solution is for Israel-Palestine. The fact that it hasn’t happened in 40 years tells you all you need to know.
barbara @ 32
They also announced that the Bush family would have their non-tours extended by that much.
Is that Star Tribune “blog-watcher” the Tim O’Brien who wrote “The Things They Carried” and “In the Lake of the Woods”? Helluva writer, that guy.
barbara @ 33
145,000 families are now very PO’d at W, minus the ones who already were. 100,000 here, 100,000 there. Pretty soon it adds up to real votes.
LS @ 38 says:
They don’t need to read it. Makes no difference what the actual thread is if they can get it off track.
OKKiddo’s gonna cry when he finds out what happened here while he was correcting quadratic equation exams…
dakine01 @ 43
They don’t need to read it. Makes no difference what the actual thread is if they can get it off track.
I hear you…
Porco Rosso @ 3
IIRC, the guy directing Carter’s hostage rescue attempt was Oliver North. All kinds of things went on that screwed up that mission, and I’ve read that negotiations were possibly hampered by CIA people loyal to Regan/Bush. Or not. But there is a body of speculation and reporting out there that claims that the rescue, at least, was compromised.
Ed*ard Teller @ 45
Ding! with a chuckle…)
The name I was looking for was Adam Putnam I believe. He attacked Pelosi over the Speaker’s plane not because he had any knowledge of it as a member but because he read about it in that even trustier than the WaPo paper the Washington Times. Even after he was corrected he still called the flap the first break Republicans have had since the Mark Foley scandal broke.
A curious piece of trivia.
I guess there was more than one guy with a “deer caught in the headlights” look there that day.
I wish someone would put up footage of what the republican assholes were saying and doing during the Clinton years. Expose these idiots as the hypocritical, evil bastards all those repuke voters with very short memories can’t bring themselves to recall.
Ed*ard Teller @ 43
I used to like quadratic quations. I even tried to teach it to my son, who couldn’t get it. IIRC, it ended by his throwing the book at me, or storming out of the room, or something in a similar vein.
CNN (Wolf B) just connected a bunch of Dems with Imus and his “bigoted” statements, saying how they stand by their man. That is just outrageous. The media is really on the attack.
tbsa @ 50
Just read the “Contract with America”.
I support our Speaker of the House.
LS @ 51
I’ve been seeing this for the last two days. Where do they get this liberals-backing-Imus stuff? Another “little lie” sewn up out of whole cloth? Weird, just weird.
Hugh @ 31
“Stop throwing the Constitution in my face,” Bush screamed back. “It’s just a goddamned piece of paper!”
http://www.capitolhillblue.com…..7779.shtml
Badwater @
41
This looks BAD for Iran too.
I saw a pretty convincing speculation that Bushie would do his best to find some way to attack Iran by May or June while Tony Blair is still vaguely in power as the only member of the joke coalition with a real military. Basic idea because “he wants to”, and to muddy his Iraq defeat and legacy. Sorry, I don’t remember the source, something much more credible than the Strib. Anybody got it?
LS @ 52
What can you really expect from a bunch of Conservative Numb Nuts?
Oklahoma kiddo @
54
Missed ya. Check the previous thread, especially Morris at #60.
Bil @ 55
If W bombs Iran, British troops are toast. Iranin army will overrun the border in hoards & slaughter them.
Badwater @ 53
Contract ON America is a more honest title.
With every passing day it pleases me more and more that while living in Cali I cast my vote over and over for Speaker Pelosi.
Rocket Scientist @ 56
Okay. This is totally over the top. And if it’s true, and if it can be proved, surely, surely this is the back-breaking straw (she screamed in her incredible naivete).
LS @ 51
On the other hand, the Imus story is reaching it’s saturation point and the Anna Nicole story is dead. News channel producers need to create another angle to increase controversy and viewer interest in the Imus story, so the ad rates can be defended next week with this week’s viewer numbers. Oh, and beat Fox to the punch. Gotta sell those cars and loans and soap.
PW,
I read the Duluth paper online quite often..
Here’s an excerpt from a letter published April 4 (written by someone in GA):
outta here. 78F in my greenhouse and cilantro, romaine, shiso and betel seeds call. best cure ever for lingering SAD from a lllloooonnngggg fucking winter…
Hugh @
49
Hugh, I guess you missed my comment at 29 reply to your #23…I’ll try not to break my arm patting myself on the back now. :})
kathleen @ 32
What was edited off of what I wrote.
Your note that you edited what I said is “inflammatory” and bullshit and I object.
marksb @
55
You mean lib dems like McCain and Rudy and all the other congressional republics that also go on the show?
RJ @ 42:
I don’t think its the same Tim O’Brien, but I’m not positive. The novelist O’Brien was born and grew up in small-town southern MN (my home area), and went to undergraduate at Macalaster College in St. Paul. His Wikipedia entry suggests, but does not unequivocally state, that he is now based in Texas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_O’Brien_(author)
Would someone please slap me so I can settle down? If the POTUS, who has sworn on his Bible to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, etc., etc., etc. declares that it is nothing more than a piece of paper . . . just sayin’.
There will never, ever, be peace, in the Middle East without a Palestinian homeland.
In all of the discussion of these attacks of Pelosi, no one has mentioned what I think is the obvious reason for the venom.
If Bush and Cheney are removed from office, who would become President?
It is vital for the Republicans to make Pelosi as intolerable to the populace if they can. It is a desperate act of self preservation. Consequently, we can only expect these attacks to continue and become more repugnant as time goes on.
dakine01 #67,
Thanks, I was jumping around trying to catch up and somehow missed it.
barbara @ 71
Ah, but it wasn’t a blood oath sworn under the darkness of the moon so it doesn’t count. Besides, IOKWIAR.
SteveA @
12
That’s funny. I think someone posted a pretty cogent argument suggesting the Logan Act applied more accurately to our Beloved Bush Baby.
barbara @ 71
That was after he said that the Bible’s just a damn book.
Maybe only people like Paul Baker are actually buying the dead tree press, and they want to keep making sales any way they can.
Hugh @ 74
Just busting on ya a little. I had to think about for a couple of minutes to come up with the name. IIRC, both the NYT and the ComPost did sycophant profiles on him recently.
I was travelling yesterday so not sure if this letter from Waxman to Fielding got mentioned, dated April 10th. It does show Hanry is getting impatient:
During Msnbc’s David Gregory’s interview with Richard Holbrooke, Gregory referred to Pelosi’s trip to Syria as “pursuing a shadow foreign policy”, Holbrooke slammed him.
Carl from L.A. @ 73
You make an excellent point. By constantly attacking Pelosi, it takes the focus off their inemurable scandals and let’s them rally their base of wingjobs. I think everytime the Wingnuts grind up an erroneous attack, a new round of subpoena’s go out. It would definetly quiet the news cycles.
Carl from L.A. @ 73
That hadn’t occurred to me, but it seems right on target.
dakine01 @ 75
Okay, I give up on the IOKWIAR (sigh). Well, if not an impeachable offense, then surely a major smack from the Christian right for the POTUS who breaks a commandment by calling the Constitution nothing but a goddamn piece of paper.
See, I’m still frothing.
Carl from L.A. @ 72
Well, there is that…but I think the idea of the Democratic Party being seen (or branded) as the party of the sensible, smart grandmother who can manage circles around these lying crooks just scares them to death. Heh.
Wait, wait!! I Only Know What I Am >>>>> ???
Carl from L.A. @ 73
You cannot assume that Pelosi would be President, even if Cheney and his puppet are both gone. Think back to Nixon. There was no “President Agnew”.
eCAHNomics @ 60.
Iran’s border facing the US forces is much longer.
how will the survivors get out? Up through Turkey, a fur piece; through Syria, Har Har; through Jordan, out through Aqaba, Yair right! — and HM King Abdullah is unl;ikely to let them go out through Israel.
They certainly will not be getting out by ship down the Gulf, and it is most unlikely the airfields will be usable with a couple of million Iranian soldiers and Guards milling around.
This is getting worse and worse. CNN this morning, citing unidentified WH sources, said that there were intel signs that Syria AND Iraq were both importing IEDs specifically to kill our soldiers. I’m reasonably certain that Iraqi militants are perfectly capable of making their own IEDs… if they’re truly dependent on imported IEDs then we should be winning this war…. in all likelihood another well-timed outright lie through innuendo.
Bingo! Another of my emails read on caffertyfile!
Barbara @ 63 & 71:
I recall seeing that item when it was first posted in 2005, and searched in vain for another, less obviously partisan citation. That’s not to say I seriously doubt that it occurred; it’s entirely in character.
kathleen @ 68
You may have reviewed what was posted, but you did not edit anything. By printing that you edited what I posted you infer that something was inappropriate and I object!
eCAHNomics @ 89
What did you say?
barbara @ 84 says:
See, I’m still frothing.
But barbara, that’s the essence of IOKWIAR. It’s the Christian Right who seem to drive this. That’s why the Newt can go on James Dobson’s show and get complete absolution for all his sins, past and present, including having affairs with his future wifes while still married to the previous ones while Clinton gets slammed for actually staying married to one woman and apologizing. It’s OK for Newt becuz he’s a Republican but becuz Clinton’s a dem, he was obviously not sincere with his apologies.
barbara @ 86
It’s OK W Is A Republican.
maunga @ 88
Yeah. I knew that. The Brits’ll get slaughtered right away & ours will get slaughtered more slowly. I asked my army major efriend if we have enuf air power to evacuate U.S. troops but he won’t answer my question.
barbara @ 86
IOKWIAR=It’s OK When It’s A Republican
I’m not sure I heard it correctly, but I think Tucker just teased that he has a story that will “vindicate” him for saying the Plame investigation was a “hoax.”
Do you think our new WAR CZAR might be Erik Prince (or however it is spelled)?
Brisingamen @ 95
*smacks forehead*
Dover Bitch @ 98
You have far more patience than I to actually be able to watch Tucker. I’m too old and my blood pressure won’t stand it and I can’t find the good buds to get it down anymore. :})
AZ Matt @ 93
Plagarism. Strict plagarism. Sent in the November 2005 Onion piece (with citation) that was in tpm this morning (i.e., I plagarized tpm, not Onion):
kathleen @ 92
“Your note that you edited what I said is “inflammatory” and bullshit and I object.
You may have reviewed what was posted, but you did not edit anything. By printing that you edited what I posted you infer that something was inappropriate and I object!”
Exhale Kathleen. I thought it made you a little mysterious ‘-)
eCAHNomics @ 96
I am not in the military, but with the way we’ve been losing helicopters, I’d say they’re going to have serious problems if they have to bugout.
Those with access to an airstrip may do ok, but those that don’t? (shudder)
eCAHNomics @
40
Israel and GWB are absolutely One here. Israel and Israelis wants “Peace”, but only if they get to keep what they have now, get about 50 miles more north of Lebanon, and the worlds accepts that they have the right to Greater Israel in due course, — all the way to the Arabian Gulf. They are nort [repared to discuss. “Israel” was an orhasnised socirety of Canaanites (Palestinians) when the semi-nomads who became the Hebrews were still completely unorganised. If one stretches one’s imagination the descendants of the voluntary emigrants who want to go back might conceivably have a small claim to a circular area about 15 miles across which has Jerusalem at around 2 o’clock. And they were only the majority of the population then, too, and for about 350 years, no more!
dakine01 @ 101
I usually change the channel at this point, but was late. Now I have to leave it on. Dammit.
eCAHNomics @ 90
Which one?
Bush is resigning!! He is resigning as War President and he’s appointing a War Czar. Yeah, that’s the ticket!
I accept your resignation Mr. Bush.
Badwater @ 87
History lesson:
Agnew resigned before Nixon did.
How do you think we ended up with Ford?
#104
To be fair, I don’t think this is the type of war where we’ll have trouble getting out, yet. Problems in retreat tend to develop when there’s no way safe-ground territory can be held, and we don’t have a problem holding territory in Iraq… just in getting it safe. The Saigon scenario will not develop until the other side (say al-Sadr)’s organized militia actually comes to the brink of taking over the country or a sizable swath of it. I’m sure that’ll happen eventually, but not yet.
P J Evans @ 109
And anyone nominated by the Chimpy to replace a Cheney would still have to be confirmed by House and Senate. Don’t think McCain, LIEberman, Or Hatch could pass that test. Nor most any of the other congressional Republics
OT
Has anyone read this article on the Iraq funding issue: Link “But Reid’s office turned the tables by inviting Bush to go to Capitol Hill on Friday to discuss the funding request with him and other Democratic leaders and some Republican senators.”
I like the quote from Reid liking Bush to Nixon. Go Harry!
Sorry, sausage fingers again! I’ll try to remember to push the famous Spellcheck — -except it spells funnily.
Blub @ 110
I thought we all agreed it’s an Occupation now.
Bil @ 103
You may have reviewed what was posted, but you did not edit anything. By printing that you edited what I posted you infer that something was inappropriate and I object!”
Exhale Kathleen. I thought it made you a little mysterious ‘-)
Please stop being condescending. My objection was completely legitimate.
What is mysterious is your need to post that you have edited when you have not. Also no need for the FDLer’s to turn on people when one questions something they have written or when you claim to have edited when you have not. I have noticed this numerous times.
Kathleen @ 92, 68, etc:
You can’t use *that* set of letters without getting caught in the filter, or without editing to remove some of them. You’ve been told several times.
Also, if you put in a lot of links, it will get caught in the filter.
maunga @ 105
I think the Jews controlled the area for only 100-200 years in the last 4,000. (They lived there longer, but did not have political control.)
A Jewish friend of mine points out that Judaism became an organized religion around the same time a Christianty. Don’t ask me details, but think it has something to do with the need to organize to survive in the diaspora.
P J Evans @ 115
I wrote A*I*P*C the first time around. Positive! They did not have to edit!
Loo Hoo (Terry Olson) @ 107
See me @ 102.
Blub @ 89
Al-Qaqaa
maunga @ 113
I thought your comment yesterday about Liebermann french kissing Bush was too funny by far!
I just meant, even from a tactical perspective, we probably need to get out as quickly as we can.. I mean, with shrub’s record there, we WILL be looking at the Saigon scenario in another 6 months, as every single shiite unites behind al-Sadr.
maunga @ 114
P J Evans @ 115
I posted the same thing on the last post and it did not get caught in the filter and was not edited. Please no need to be condescending when there are legitimate questions
S.O.S. from MA @ 118
Al-Qaqaa
?
eCAHNomics @ 90
Congratulations
Kathleen @ 92 (or thereabouts):
Not sure just what you are upset about. The Mods are a little trigger happy these days – you wouldn’t believe the unbelievable crap that spews from certain corners (where I wish it would stay). We don’t need it from community members, too.
Deep breath.
Minnesotachuck @ 91
Ditto. When I have seen it in the past I have asked if anyone can substantiate it. I don’t doubt it either from the results. We will probably read about it in someone’s memoirs who is going to Hell also for not finding some way to make it public. But who would you take it to? Alberto Gonazales?
lolo @ 122
thx.
Of course Pelosi is a bad lady, she lied us into war, outed a CIA agent, illegally wiretapped Americans, politicized every office of government humanly possible, oh wait…..
eCHAN,
I saw that this morning too. Think it’s okay to do that? I assumed the same person who originally wrote it sent it to Jack.
eCAHNomics!! Way to go!!
mc @ 21
Exactly. It helps no one.
I really like my Speaker!
Looks like the prosecutor in the Duke case took his cue from Rove and Abu.
Blub @ 89
This is a story first flogged by Michael Gordon at the NYT back in early February. It keeps getting raised. Gen. Caldwell the top military PR man in Iraq has been associated with most of these efforts and is the source of today’s story. The military has yet to make a case A)that it is so and B)that it poses a significant threat to US troops. This as not stopped them from recycling it.
This all may have something to do with the US military taking sides in an intra-Shia conflict in Diwaniyah last week. They sided with Badr Brigade units in the Iraqi army against members of Sadr’s Mahdi Army. That sounds like a place where EFPs might have been used. As a general rule if we don’t attack the Shia militias they don’t use EFPs against us.
Loo Hoo @ 127
So now you’re going to take my small victory away by making me feel guilty? NFW. It’s a dog eat dog world, and I guess I C&P faster than the tpm reader. The Ds need more aggressive, amoral people like me.
tbsa @ 128
Snort!
kathleen @
118
Actually, you didn’t get the asterisks in the correct places and the mods did edit it. Sorry if you don’t appreciate how these hard working volunteers are trying to help.
eCAHNomics @ 116
Yup, the Old Testament was written around 600BC, (entirely fictional, well it would be since it claimed to be history of 3,000 years earlier), as an attempt to coalesce the the locals into being a cohesive group — damn clever too. With the Assyrians, Persians, Babylonians, Greeks and Romans all taking the territory over, I am not sure they even got to 100-200 years on their own. Then the first extermination attempt, Titus in 70 -77 AD was probably the most successful, so that most of today’s Jews are descended from folk who had voluntarily emigrated before then. None of this reads like a particularly solid basis for all the aggro and territory stealing going on now.
OKK used an exclamation point.
Blub @ 121
?
Take a looksee at this compressed Google search URL: http://tinyurl.com/2db9op
(Pls pardon Zig, Mods) :)
The funny thing about the EFP’s, helicopter downings, and the chlorine bombs-
they all result from bush’s strategy of vacuum building (debaathifacation, refusal to talk to any regional players).
Mommybrain @ 124
Where is that comment that I wrote in response to the moderator. I asked them to stop being condescending. Telling me to “take a breath” when I had a legitimate question about the moderator stating that they have edited when they have not. Especially on the I/P issue.
I also mentioned that I have noticed when one questions some of the FDL’ers there are almost always snotty and derragatory remarks thrown back at the person who questions.
MommyBrain and RBG!
WOOT!
Carl @ 73, Badwater @ 87, et al:
The fact that both the Prez and VP are up to their eyeballs in the corruption of this administration is a situation utterly unanticipated by the founders or the drafters of the XII and XXV Amendments. They never anticipated that the two would be joined at the hip like they are. In the event of impeachment, there will therefore be questions about the order in which events proceed. It seems to me that they should take on Cheney first, since he is the cannier, and thus the more dangerous, of the two. That would trigger Section 2 of the XXV Amendment, which requires confirmation by both houses of Congress. If Bush were to fall first that section of the Amendment would also become operative, but Cheney in the drivers seat for as little as a few days, with the hooks he has into the DOD and law enforcement bureaucracies, is a truly scary prospect.
Section 4 of Amendment XXV, the one pertaining to the removal of a Prez unable to perform his or her duties, makes no mention of the VP except as successor to the Prez. If we still have a country and Constitution left when this nightmare is over, one of the issues that should be addressed is this whole matter of presidential succession and removal. The Bush-Cheney experience has made me reaalize there’s a lot to be said for the parliamentary governmental form, in which the Head of Government can be sent packing by a vote of no confidence. I suspect an increasing number of Republicans are starting to think so too in their heart of hearts.
kathleen @ 115
Exhale Kathleen. I thought it made you a little mysterious ‘-)
Please stop being condescending. My objection was completely legitimate.
What is mysterious is your need to post that you have edited when you have not. Also no need for the FDLer’s to turn on people when one questions something they have written or when you claim to have edited when you have not. I have noticed this numerous times.
As you wish Kathleen. I was trying to be funny and lighten you up. It won’t happen again.
Why are all these Nixon (Kissinger), Bush I, and Reagan, etc. re-treads still around? Why is Newt and the rest being paid attention to? Old habits die hard?
Dom Imus was just dropped from MSNBC.
I had hoped that Cassie was here as I’m going to be out this evening, but…
I want to again sincerely apologize to Cassie and to the readers of FDL for my despicable comments last night. They were uncalled for and will not recur.
Cassie, I hope you have a long and enjoyable residency here at the Lake, and don’t let crabby old men like me ever get you down.
Regards to all, Balrog
msnbc ditches Imus.
Amen.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 143
That’s their entire bench. Well at least until Palose, Goodling et al get just a tad more seasoned.
Hugh @ 132
Right, and the British found a very sophisticated IED etc factory south of Basra a couple of days later.
Anyway, what the hell does Bush expect? The Sunnis and Shi’a are finally coming to the end of the ammo dumps we did not bother to take over, so their rich-ish pals on the borders are supplying them, the Sa’uds not with too many actual munitions, just lots of moolah to buy through Syria for the Sunnis, and the Iranians for the Shi’a. What would we do with a posse of animal interlopers Occupying us? We’d beg the neighbours for everything they could supply us.
(((grumpy ol’ Balrog)))
Dover Bitch @ 147
Yea!!!
RBG @ 136
I do appreciate what they do. And I appreciate that you admitted they may be trigger happy. My proof that your moderators behaviour was “mysterious” is that I copied what I had written and linked exactly from the last post, where it was not moderated and there was no “false” claim that it was edited.
It was copied and brought over to this thread exactly as it appeared on the last post.
A deep breath may need to be taken by your moderators.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 144
I think not; old habitual people either are filthy rich themselves, or are BFFs with filthy rich ppl who own the media or are huge campaign donors. It’s called oligarchy and we is in one. (Oversimplified answer, but its heart is in the right place methinx) :)
Dover Bitch @
147
Maybe not a surprise. MSNBC has been reporting that GM, AmEx, and other advertisers were dropping him. This on top of losing P&G, Staples and others yesterday. It’s called the bottomline.
Minnesotachuck @ 142
If a serious impeachment movement started, I think that Bush would sacrifice Cheney to save himself. There would be a search and approval process for a new VP. It would be a delaying tactic, but it might work given the time left in the current term.
With luck, part of the Bush legacy will be the permanent marginalization of the Republican Party.
Dom Imus was just dropped from MSNBC
Buy Andrea Mitchell a drink!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 145
Few ‘normal’ people think like they do. Fascists are few and far between; you have to conserve and recycle them so you can use ‘em again and again. Think of it as sustainable conservatism. Or, if you like, composting the conservatives.
Eureka Springs @ 153
Sic semper Imus prickus.
eCAHNomics @
43
I think Democrats ought to start complaining loud and long about how Bush is running our armed forces into the ground.
* sending them off on wild goose chases
* long deployments
* not enough time between deployments
* poorly equipped
* over-extended
* pretend to follow advice of generals but fire the one’s who don’t buy the Cheney-Bush hocus pocus
Murtha’s already got most of the evidence anyone would need. We’ve got to debunk the idea that Republicans are friends of the military.
Bob in HI
Blub @ 110:
I can think of at least a couple of pretty experienced and savvy military thinkers who would beg to differ with you on the risks we’re taking with the way our troops are deployed in Iraq: Pat Lang and William Lind. Both of them, and others, are worried as hell.
With luck, part of the Bush legacy will be the permanent marginalization of the Republican Party.
Considering how they are polling, I think that goes without saying. The damage they can do in the next two years is still going to be painful as hell and will taken generations to undo.
Where is that comment that I wrote in response to the moderator. I asked them to stop being
I also mentioned that I have noticed when one questions some of the FDL’ers there are almost always snotty and derragatory remarks thrown back at the person who questions.
Kathleen, read before you start complaining about how other people respond to you. You come across as whining, snotty, and derogatory.
marksb @ 156
That explains the stink, dunnit?
Imis fired.
There were a whole bunch of folks saying the same thing during Watergate and lookee where we are now. It ain’t gonna happen, although it always sounds good in the short term.
Jane has a new thread.
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..imus-lose/
tbsa @ 162
Again, look at Watergate; the Republics were partially marginalized but when Ford let Nixon off the hook, it allowed them to re-generate through saint ronnie ray-guns.
Hugh @ 134
Atrios dealt with this last week. The media’s editing the facts to fit their “Evil Iranian Masterminds” theory.
Bob Schacht @ 160
Yep. Ds have the goods all over the Rs, military and otherwise. 70% of the country has already recognizes it. So back to my old complaint about why Ds are not being more assertive.
Once again, you are incorrect. Both comments were tripped up by the filters and required a mod to release them.
They have done nothing but try to help you.
I never said anything about trigger happy and would appreciate it if you do not misquote me.
Mods, please forgive me my zig.
[Mod Note; Please only nest 2 or 3 quotes at a maximum. Any more may break the margins. Thank You. ;) ]
smapdi @ 158
Call me a grouch but I’ll pass on buying Andrea a drink but may send flowers to the coach and her team for suffering the old dragonian Imus in a double celebration of their excellence. woo woo!
Hugh @ 10
Oh, yes. They HAVE to try to take her down, because she’s an actual liberal in power. I’m just hoping that they get so crazed in their desperation that they screw up big-time. They’ve come close with this one.
FYI, Imus upstairs
Minnesotachuck @ 162
I reead the first two post by Lind, and they were not much of a recommendation that he is thinker on things to do with war. He may be good, but on the basis of those two.
((((mods))))
eCAHNomics @
43
Actually, in this effort at equity Gates excluded the Marines…who only have to serve 7 month tours. Vs. the 15 months for regular Army! That’s gonna be REAL GOOD for morale!
MARINE PANSIES!
sedrunsic @ 19
Oooh! If we can prove this sucker is astroturf, we can get the letter writer on the Strib’s shit list. Newspapers HATE being conned into running blatant astroturf letters.
Badwater @ 156:
I agree that Bush will not hesitate to throw Cheney under the bus if push comes to shove and he gets the chance. The one hopeful factor is that the Dems have a substantial enough majority in the House to veto an unpalatable nomination, that is if Pelosi can keep them from forming a circular firing squad.
Balrog,
If Cassie is around tonight I’ll let her know you apologized. Then you can kiss and make up on your own next time you’re both swimming.
P J Evans @ 165
Kathleen, read before you start complaining about how other people respond to you. You come across as whining, snotty, and derogatory.
I waited and read. Took you folks a long time to post a legitimate question and criticism.
So you define questioning the moderators asking me to “take a breath” when I asked a legitimate question as “whining, snotty and derrogatory” That says a great deal about questioning here at FDL.
Buck up folks fall into line, suck up to the FDlers and shut up.
I repeat the moderators “sometimes” come off derrogatory and arrogant.
But I will roll over and say that you folks are always right, because I do appreciate what you do.
But there is no need to tell someone to “take a deep breath” when they ask a legitimate question.
marksb @
47
I don’t know if North was involved at some level in the planning, but the operational end was certainly run by several figures now closely associated with rightwingerry and running the Iraq invasion/occupation. They were all part of the 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment-Delta (Delta Force), including mission commander Charlie Beckwith and subsequent notables Major Peter Schoomaker (later Army Chief of Staff) and Major William G. Boykin (later Lieutenant General)
itwasntme @ 177
Ditto.
marksb @
55
I guess that’s why they refer to him as “Anus in the Morning”…it’s a sign of endearment!
And we all recall that Imus was a prominent liberal host on :”Air America” before it went bankrupt …right! ;-)
And then he was hired by Dan Rather at CBS! (Snark, snark!]
barbara @
71
Besides…it’s hemp (or at least the drafts were)…or parchment, isn’t it!
Minnesotachuck @ 162
Thanks for the clarification, I think (which would imply that things are even worse…)
Badwater @
87
That’s because Agnew quit (and would have been impeached if he hadn’t)….Ford was confirmed by Congress in one of the quickest confirmation cycles in history for a VP.
Look at the history of the VP being replaced…sometimes there hasn’t been confirmation for years…and sometimes…even after four years the piost has remained vacant. At least twice in US history there were periods when there was no VP for 10 of twelve years…either no nomination or blocked confirmation.
maunga @
138
That is based on a 120-year-old theory that is probably wrong. The first edition of the Tanakh was probably written by a scribe in the Court of King David. There’s evidence of writing in the area centuries earlier (the Proto-Sinaitic Script).
First??? The Assyrian smackdown and the Babylonian captivity don’t mean anything to you, I guess.
Voluntarily?!?!?!?!? So the diaspora just happened when 100,000 Jews just decided to go on vacation simultaneously?
That’s so true. I’m glad that we can end on a note of agreement– but I’m not sure if I’m agreeing with Maunga @ 138 or eCAHNomics because the numbers seem to have changed and I’ve lost the thread.
Bob in HI
LS @
108
Rationale…he’s bored with the whole thing! He wants to play WAR PRESIDENT! Not “Bad Occupation” President!
Minnesotachuck @
144
There is nothing in the Consttution that defines High Crimes and Misdeameanors, either. There is nothing that requires that impeachment constitute anything other than a trial on incompetance inpolicies or arrogance…although there is more than enough Unconstitutional acts that Bush has done to stipulate Impeachment.
Heck! With every signing statement he is practically asserting that he will not honor the laws of the land as passed by Congress. While former Presidents have stated that they will not administer Unconstitutional laws (basically telling Congress – “go to the Supreme Court to compel me if you think it’s Constitutional” – no other President has used the signing statement to challenge what are clearly Constitutional and legal laws siugned by the President, He simply didn’t want to veto them and have his veto overturned.
Why print a letter that’s lies from beginning to end, you ask? Probably to get the readers outraged enough to write letters responding to it, so that righties will get exercised over the newspaper printing liberal filth and write their own letters, rinse, repeat.
Because it’s all about the “controversy” nowadays. So-called journalistic standards have degenerated into “let’s you and him fight”.
The Repubs will lose against for one reason … their playbook is against similar pale, white males. They do not have a gameplan against a smart, determined paesano.
This fight will be like Rocky Vs Pee Wee Herman.
cinnamonape @
184
Not a press source…but…this is an interesting read and worth a couple of minutes. Anyway,
I am from the Twin Cities and I know just how you feel. I find the Star Tribune almost unreadable. They have started their smear campaign against Al Frankin. They do NOT reflect the majority opinion of the metro area. It is making me crazy!
What MEC said: newspapers print these kinds of lies because they can, because they think they will gain.
And it’s true. As I remarked about the Imus matter is that what is most notable about it is that corporate America actually displayed some leadership in saying, “This is too much.” But for decades they’ve been happy to see Americans trashing other Americans, to the point that the nation is at risk. Trashing Pelosi is very dangerous territory. If people like her are betrayed for political gain, it will radicalize a lot of people.
Definitely check out the Gideon Levy article that Kathleen linked above. (www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/846420.html)