First?

Where is everyone?

I hope you’re right, Eli. I hope this does set some standard, although I have to say — I’m not sure how important Imus was in the grand scheme of things. He was an acceptable sacrifice in the way that Rush or Drudge never would be, they’re much more valuable cogs in the Wurlitzer.

Before the heckling begins: If I had known about the e-mail story more than 10 minutes ago, I probably would have scrapped or at least deferred the Imus post. I still think the Imus story more important than people think, though.

Feel free to talk about the deleted e-mails here, though.

Evening, Eli. Consequences? Who would have thought there would be consequences?

Suzanne @ 5

Evening, Eli. Consequences? Who would have thought there would be consequences?

Don’t make me have to wag my gavel at you.

karen allen @
2

Where is everyone?

Still downstairs.

There have to be so many people involved in the White House subterfuge. Why doesn’t someone just come forward and talk? Surely there is someone there with a conscience.

I misplace e-mails all the time. I can totally undertstand the RNCs mishap. Those goofy pugs.

Jane Hamsher @ 3

I hope you’re right, Eli. I hope this does set some standard, although I have to say — I’m not sure how important Imus was in the grand scheme of things. He was an acceptable sacrifice in the way that Rush or Drudge never would be, they’re much more valuable cogs in the Wurlitzer.

But it plants a seed, the idea that *respectable* media outlets cut ties with hatemongers. So they’ll be forced to cut ties or tacitly admit that they’re not respectable.

It’s not absolutely necessary to me that all the hate talkers go away, just that they and their outlets lose their legitimacy and credibility.

Like the Democrats shutting Fox out of the Democratic debates because it’s a Republican propaganda outlet.

Absent the public outcry, MSNBC would not have chastised Imus, or even issued a public apology. If the two week suspension had expired just in time for sweeps and the controversy drove his ratings through the roof, they’d have been perfectly happy with that. Only the loss of advertising revenue motivated them to dump Imus. If enough pressure could be brought to bear on Limbaugh’s (and the rest of the right-wing airbags) sponsors, we might finally see him get what he deserves.

It’s been raining here all day and, psychosomatic or not, that seems to suck the life out of me. I guess there’s always the chance that I’m catching something too, as there are a lot of sniffly, coughing people at work. So, unlikely to make it to latenight. But I wanted to repost this link for anyone who could use a dose of extreme video cuteness.

I keep hoping there is someone in receipt of gwb e-mails that loves America.

Loo Hoo @ 13

I keep hoping there is someone in receipt of gwb e-mails that loves America.

That sounds like a contradiction in terms to me.

catfood @ 11

Absent the public outcry, MSNBC would not have chastised Imus, or even issued a public apology. If the two week suspension had expired just in time for sweeps and the controversy drove his ratings through the roof, they’d have been perfectly happy with that. Only the loss of advertising revenue motivated them to dump Imus. If enough pressure could be brought to bear on Limbaugh’s (and the rest of the right-wing airbags) sponsors, we might finally see him get what he deserves.

Who advertises on Limpboy?

Bo Dietl on King.

I want an indepth interview of Oliphant where he elaborates on his pledge to stick by Imus Forevah.

Loo Hoo @ 15

Who advertises on Limpboy?

The little bluish pill that you can’t say here without going into moderation?

Renee in Ohio @ 12

It’s been raining here all day and, psychosomatic or not, that seems to suck the life out of me. I guess there’s always the chance that I’m catching something too, as there are a lot of sniffly, coughing people at work. So, unlikely to make it to latenight. But I wanted to repost this link for anyone who could use a dose of extreme video cuteness.

Think you might be sick on the 17th and 18th? Me too.

Jane Hamsher @
3

I hope you’re right, Eli. I hope this does set some standard, although I have to say — I’m not sure how important Imus was in the grand scheme of things. He was an acceptable sacrifice in the way that Rush or Drudge never would be, they’re much more valuable cogs in the Wurlitzer.

Jane, I believe Imus has become the poster child for the misogyny and racism due to his being considered more “mainstream”. Most everyone outside of the reich-wingers understand that Rust and Drudge were/are idiots. But Imus was the goto talk show for many of the politicians and journalists. They could go there and play around with “I-Man”, McGuirk, Cord, and all the other enablers. It was a safe place to play boys-will-be-boys. Watching some of the folks like Craig Crawford and David Gregory, it is quite obvious that they still don’t understand what is going on. Crawford was saying on Hardball that “Imus has learned his lesson and will clean up his act.” He fails to remember all the other times that Imus has been caught out and “given another chance.”

My guess is that the next one of these idiots to go down will (should) be Glenn Beck.

My $.02

Loo Hoo @ 15

catfood @ 11

Absent the public outcry, MSNBC would not have chastised Imus, or even issued a public apology. If the two week suspension had expired just in time for sweeps and the controversy drove his ratings through the roof, they’d have been perfectly happy with that. Only the loss of advertising revenue motivated them to dump Imus. If enough pressure could be brought to bear on Limbaugh’s (and the rest of the right-wing airbags) sponsors, we might finally see him get what he deserves.

Who advertises on Limpboy?

http://www.rushlimbaughonline.com/advertisers.htm

Jane Hamsher @
3

I hope you’re right, Eli. I hope this does set some standard, although I have to say — I’m not sure how important Imus was in the grand scheme of things. He was an acceptable sacrifice in the way that Rush or Drudge never would be, they’re much more valuable cogs in the Wurlitzer.

I don’t know, Jane. Imus is/was a kind of NY radio version of Washington beltway dinner parties, where the insiders can come, say what they want, and go on their merry way. “Oh, that Don . . . what a kidder!” from some; “Oh, that Don . . . I’m shocked! Shocked, I tell you!” with appropriate pearl clutching.

When politicians choose Imus’ show to announce that they are running for President, that’s evidence that Imus matters.

When NBC/Universal cut Imus loose, citing as a major reason the internal reaction of their other employees, especially from the news division, that’s evidence that to at least some people, there’s something that matters a little bit more.

Let’s hear it for folks inside NBC deciding that they have had enough.

Tithonia @ 8

There have to be so many people involved in the White House subterfuge. Why doesn’t someone just come forward and talk? Surely there is someone there with a conscience.

More loyal to the cause than to the truth(iness).

dakine01 @ 20

My guess is that the next one of these idiots to go down will (should) be Glenn Beck.

He would be my pick as well. I’m pretty sure all the other haters are hosted by explicitly right-wing outlets which will back them to the hilt.

Peterr @ 22

Let’s hear it for folks inside NBC deciding that they have had enough.

Amen to that. And hopefully it emboldens folks at CNN and who knows, maybe even ClearChannel, hahaha.

Interesting synergy of the Rutgers girls team story intersecting timewise with the Duke lacrosse team story today.

These times lead to bizarre alliances. Armstrong Williams taking on Bob Johnson for hypocrisy on Hardball. How about Scarborough mocking the sexuality of Sanjaya–a 17 yr old boy?

Wonder if anybody will ask Rev. Sharpton about the Duke lacrosse team tomorrow when he shows up in front of CBS Radio, even aside from the infamous Tawana Brawley moment? Or compile some links of his comments then? Probably not, if Grandpa Charlie and Co. are any indicator. I watched the lacrosse team press conference and the speaker excoriating the “out of control press.” None of that aired on ABC Nightly.

I make no excuses or apologies or whatever for Mr. Imus’ shockjock side of the show. But I’m mindful of Niemoller….and when my daughter, who has her own talk radio show in-state, commented that this is a bad day for broadcasting, I’m reminded that the law of unintended consequences sometimes gets ugly. Will this be another step in the dumbing-down of the morning side? I wish I could believe that it would be an Olbermann or Schuster stepping in, but it’s far more likely to be Rita Cosby Meets Michael Smerconish-kind of television.

Because there is too little cable “news”–and I think that’s the giant turd in the punchbowl here. Cable tabloid, more like it.

Since we’re all having this conversation here and elsewhere, I’ll note that in some quarters “off the reservation,” used in an earlier thread, is considered a racist slur.

So, we must all look in the mirror as well as the passing parade.

The First Amendment guarantees the right to say hateful things (within limits), but it does not guarantee the use of a giant megaphone, and it does not guarantee mainstream respectability.

And there’s this little thing called an FCC license and the concept of public airwaves…

Loo Hoo @
15

catfood @ 11

Absent the public outcry, MSNBC would not have chastised Imus, or even issued a public apology. If the two week suspension had expired just in time for sweeps and the controversy drove his ratings through the roof, they’d have been perfectly happy with that. Only the loss of advertising revenue motivated them to dump Imus. If enough pressure could be brought to bear on Limbaugh’s (and the rest of the right-wing airbags) sponsors, we might finally see him get what he deserves.

Who advertises on Limpboy?

Pfizer?

I predict many more ‘lost’ e-mails, documents and vanishing harddrives in the days to come.

The only way to make sure the goods don’t all vanish in an industrial dump is to physically secure the GOP servers and lockdown their offices.

Forgive me if I don’t hold my breath for that.

Glen Beck’s name was mentioned several times by KO.

You know, I’ve had an issue with a hate radio person in Massachusetts, New Hampshire and have lodged my complaints with the FCC, my Senators and Representative, my Attorney General, the US Attorney General (the first to reply that they’ll do nothing) my District Attorney, the ACLU and the ADL.

This man did not just call names, he called names and said that we should set up snipers and machine guns at the borders and murder them. He has called these people so many names. He is serious.

We can use this Imus fiasco to our advantage. KO tonight was already highlighting specific statements from Rush, Beck, etc. This might finally be a way of getting the mainstream media to listen to our valid complaints about the sleaze on the right.

Howard Kurtz must be clutching his pearls tonight!

Eli @
10

Jane Hamsher @ 3

I hope you’re right, Eli. I hope this does set some standard, although I have to say — I’m not sure how important Imus was in the grand scheme of things. He was an acceptable sacrifice in the way that Rush or Drudge never would be, they’re much more valuable cogs in the Wurlitzer.

But it plants a seed, the idea that *respectable* media outlets cut ties with hatemongers. So they’ll be forced to cut ties or tacitly admit that they’re not respectable.

It’s not absolutely necessary to me that all the hate talkers go away, just that they and their outlets lose their legitimacy and credibility.

Like the Democrats shutting Fox out of the Democratic debates because it’s a Republican propaganda outlet.

But, I’ll bet that the really extreme wingers out there will be pronouncing this a victory–because Imus was a “liberal” for voting for Kerry….

Renee in Ohio @
12

It’s been raining here all day and, psychosomatic or not, that seems to suck the life out of me. I guess there’s always the chance that I’m catching something too, as there are a lot of sniffly, coughing people at work. So, unlikely to make it to latenight. But I wanted to repost this link for anyone who could use a dose of extreme video cuteness.

Too cute. *g* Thanks!

Boston1775 @ 31

You know, I’ve had an issue with a hate radio person in Massachusetts, New Hampshire and have lodged my complaints with the FCC, my Senators and Representative, my Attorney General, the US Attorney General (the first to reply that they’ll do nothing) my District Attorney, the ACLU and the ADL.

This man did not just call names, he called names and said that we should set up snipers and machine guns at the borders and murder them. He has called these people so many names. He is serious.

Spocko took on the hate jocks over at KSFM and got advertisers to pull out. That’s where they hurt.

watertiger @ 27

And there’s this little thing called an FCC license and the concept of public airwaves…

I’m really not expecting any help from the government here. Not for the next couple of years, anyway.

Oh, and I agree with Atrios in recommending Sam Seder as Imus’ replacement.

Franken up on King.

watertiger @ 35

Spocko took on the hate jocks over at KSFM and got advertisers to pull out. That’s where they hurt.

He didn’t get them off the air, but he sure did scare them. Anyone know if KSFO’s reputation has suffered? Are people in SF calling them “that crazy right-wing hate station”?

Interesting points about our stalwart Congresscritters doing their thing without being distracted by things Imusian. It may very well be that this takedown of a major media figure will be a harbinger of better [i.e., worser] things to come for the hatemongers of the political Wurlitzer. But I fear not. They are probably too well insulated by their friends in the Oligarchy… but this thread could be interesting :)

Tithonia @
8

There have to be so many people involved in the White House subterfuge. Why doesn’t someone just come forward and talk? Surely there is someone there with a conscience.

I don’t think there is; they have all drunk the kool-aid. I also don’t think that free thinking is a priority in getting a job with W.’s White House. Following blindly yes, but not independant thought.

Eli @ 36

watertiger @ 27

And there’s this little thing called an FCC license and the concept of public airwaves…

I’m really not expecting any help from the government here. Not for the next couple of years, anyway.

Oh, no doubt. But it certainly helps frame the argument.

Franken mentioning Glenn Beck on CNN right now! Woohoo! Stick it to ‘em Al!

Cozumel@21 gave us the answer to who advertises on Limbaugh. Thank, Cozumel.

KSFO.

I’m a bit fried. Not in a good way.

BTW Renee in Ohio, thank you for the moment of extreme video cuteness. It is an OT delight.

OT being off-topic, not Old Testament.

watertiger @ 35

Boston1775 @ 31

You know, I’ve had an issue with a hate radio person in Massachusetts, New Hampshire and have lodged my complaints with the FCC, my Senators and Representative, my Attorney General, the US Attorney General (the first to reply that they’ll do nothing) my District Attorney, the ACLU and the ADL.

This man did not just call names, he called names and said that we should set up snipers and machine guns at the borders and murder them. He has called these people so many names. He is serious.

Spocko took on the hate jocks over at KSFM and got advertisers to pull out. That’s where they hurt.

I read Spocko’s stuff and tried another tactic. I have asked my government to respond to hate speech. There are laws.

Eli @ 18

Loo Hoo @ 15

Who advertises on Limpboy?

The little bluish pill that you can’t say here without going into moderation?

And Carribbean sex-tourism travel agencies.

How can this missing emails story be missing from any msm rag? WTF?

Eli, you are right. The next time a bigot or sexist or homophobe bellies up to the TradMed microphone and lets loose, we only have to say, “But MSNBC let Imus go!” This is a precedent-setting day, almost a paradigm shift. It’s waaaay overdue, but a line’s been drawn.

I don’t think MSNBC did this for any reason other than mercantile, but that’s okay — our money spends just as well with their sponsors as wingnut money, and TradMed may realize that (slowly).

At least we’ll always have Imus to beat them over the head with.

from the “IMUS-ta said something real stupid again” files;

I’ve heard both sides of the Imus argument, and still don’t understand why people aren’t more offended by someone like Imus in the first place.

Think about it. If we all demand people like Imus be fired, and boycott their advertisers if they didn’t respond, we might see some of this shock-jock and wingnut propaganda mollified. Right now, these hacks are one of the primary reasons American voters are brainwashed, and our lack of indignation is one of the reasons it is being perpetuated with impunity.

And I personally do not believe being offended by racist and sexist remarks is self-victimization. It is simply a natural human reaction to an insult.

Imus apologists, of every stripe, seem to forget what people like Imus have methodically done to the general integrity and public responsibility of our airwaves and publications.

OK, so if you want to see justice prevail, why not throw Imus into the locker room with those girls for a few long minutes, and see what a REAL victim looks like after a serious ass-whoopin’? THEN let him apologoize.

Now that would be justice.

Give em’ Rush, too, just for good measure (he’s a certified bigot, just ask the sports fans he offended) and afterwards, he’d have a real good excuse for all that synthetic morphine he’s sucking down. He would probably need to add another doctor to his pharmy shopping list.

Lets be honest here, folks, even most of the wingnuts would pay a premium to watch those beatings on pay-per-view.

And even my own gentle, pacifistic nature is
tempted with the thought of seeing a callous little, self-important redneck get clobbered by a bunch of smart, attractive and very athletic (not to mention BIG!) black women.

His head is shaped and colored a bit like an old worn-out basketball, maybe they could take turns dunking it into the hole where they found it.

Hope no one was equally offended by MY remarks.
JEP

dakine01 @ 20

… He fails to remember all the other times that Imus has been caught out and “given another chance.”

YAH! At least he should have been given another Friedman Unit!!! There are signs he is improving!

Teddy, I had a question for you @ #39…

Eli @
4

Before the heckling begins: If I had known about the e-mail story more than 10 minutes ago, I probably would have scrapped or at least deferred the Imus post. I still think the Imus story more important than people think, though.

Feel free to talk about the deleted e-mails here, though.

Hey, the WAR CZAR story is what’s really important! (*g*)

NEWS FLASH: White House “mishandled” some of their staffers’ RNC-mail accounts (hat tip *xyz). Raise your hand if you’re even remotely surprised

posted last night:

The RNC’s policy, Stanzel said, is to delete e-mails every 30 days, except for the e-mails of White House aides “who use the political e-mail accounts the RNC has provided them.” David Almacy, White House Internet and e-communications director, told Computerworld in March that the RNC’s archive exception for White House e-mails began in 2004

RNC spokeswoman Tracey Schmitt said on April 4, “We are in contact with the committee and are in the process of responding.” A meeting between RNC representatives and congressional investigators is expected next week.

link

and excuse me, excuse me, excuse me, the WH and RNC can get bent – go straight to the NSA, better yet, tell ‘em you’ve already been to the NSA :)

dakine01 @ 20

My guess is that the next one of these idiots to go down will (should) be Glenn Beck.

My $.02

That would be lovely!

TeddySanFran @ 54

Eli @
4

Before the heckling begins: If I had known about the e-mail story more than 10 minutes ago, I probably would have scrapped or at least deferred the Imus post. I still think the Imus story more important than people think, though.

Feel free to talk about the deleted e-mails here, though.

Hey, the WAR CZAR story is what’s really important! (*g*)

But what more can I add to it?

Rob Zuber @ 43

Franken mentioning Glenn Beck on CNN right now! Woohoo! Stick it to ‘em Al!

Excellent!

Rob Zuber @ 43

Franken mentioning Glenn Beck on CNN right now! Woohoo! Stick it to ‘em Al!

Larry King makes the backwards deduction from Franken’s mentioning of Beck, asking: “Does that mean Imus is forgivable, because others have done it?” Uh, no, that wasn’t his point Larry.

Replace him with Phil Donahue!!

On the “loss” of the email data by the Administration, I posted the following in a discussion at Kevin Drum’s site, I think it is applicable here (and I am to lazy to come up with a new thought):

“Today the Bush Administration admitted it had destroyed computer evidence that was legally required to be maintained. Forensic computer experts consistently state that, with the right effort, just about anything can be recovered from a hard drive. Even when things cannot be recovered, there are traces, bits, pieces, etc. there that, at a minimum, indicate the previous existence of the items and their characteristics. If this is really true, and it sure appears to be, then the clear cut violation of the Presidential Records Act serves as an unassailable predicate for the seizure of the appropriate computers and hard drives from the Administration. They should be so seized and analyzed; they will either show evidence that confirms the emails and documents in question were there and erased, including WHEN they were erased, or alternatively it will result in a finding that hard drives were replaced with clean ones in an attempt to obstruct justice (and an attendant conspiracy case that would boggle the mind). Substantive criminal evidence results either way, and the public is entitled to the discovery of that evidence. There is no legitimate basis for the Administration to refuse this either; the predicate crime has been directly admitted by them already, and this places the matter beyond executive privilege under Nixon v. US. This is simply not politics anymore, that canard is over; this is criminal behavior that strikes at the heart of our democracy, open and accountable government. The time has come to investigate and prosecute; end of story.

I just heard Joe Scarbrough giving the GOP standared Moral Equivalency arguement without context of course. Black rappers do sometimes say bad things, they don’t say them on Network TV Joe. I want a world where talk of killing muslims is not broadcast on tv or radio. Just because some Muslims nuts bombed us do we hold all Muslims responible for their actions? Or the next time an abortion clinic is bombed do we hold all Christians and not just the FundeMENTALists responsible and liable for damages! How many hatecrimes can be linked to right wing talk radio when they call for their followers to get violent? I think its time for broadcast media to be held liable! Telling others to commit violence even indirectly on radio is murder when you consider all the mentaly unstable people out there who take this crap seriously. I want Rush, Savage and Ann in OZ!

Like Katrina V. from the nation magazine said on Colbert, the MSM is too busy giving bushco head to notice anything else.

Phoenix Woman @ 56

dakine01 @ 20

My guess is that the next one of these idiots to go down will (should) be Glenn Beck.

My $.02

That would be lovely!

I did read that his ratings are among the very lowest in prime time cable so natural inertia should cause him to go if nothing else. I forget what the ratings point was but I think it translated to the 150-200k viewers range.

When politicians choose Imus’ show to announce that they are running for President, that’s evidence that Imus matters.

So — is today the end of Chris Dodd’s Presidential campaign as well?

S.O.S. from MA @ 40

Interesting points about our stalwart Congresscritters doing their thing without being distracted by things Imusian. It may very well be that this takedown of a major media figure will be a harbinger of better [i.e., worser] things to come for the hatemongers of the political Wurlitzer. But I fear not. They are probably too well insulated by their friends in the Oligarchy… but this thread could be interesting :)

The difference I see, and I know most FDL folks disagree, is that Imus was enigmatic in that he did go after people on both sides of the spectrum. The vast majority people that listen to the Limbaughs and Bortz’s are on one side and they eat their bullshit up. I cringed a great deal at Imus but I still liked the way he championed some causes.

sunny @ 60

Replace him with Phil Donahue!!

Donahue gets better ratings, at least on TV. :-)

I think the sadness of Imus is that his true living is not made on hate. There are others who live to hate another day.

Eli,

Hopefully this firing of Imus is the tippijg point and hatespeechradio is headed for the dustbin of history.

Imus is only one of many who spew hate speech and tyr to pass it off as “jokes” or entertainment.

Let this people speak… but let them not have a radio, or TV platform to do it. The airwaves SHOULD belong to the people and this type of language and sentiments has no place on the airwaves.

These people should not be making money spewing hate. This is very sad.

Time for a change… let’s hope it’s now… better late than never.

White House burying emails!

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/…..nt-3672059

WE HAVE GOT TO GET THOSE EMAILS. THIS IS NOT A CASE WHERE THE COVERUP IS WORSE THAN THE CRIME. THE REPUBLICANS ARE TERRIFIED. THINK OF THE SERVERS WHERE THEY MAY STILL BE TEMPORARILY STORED OR BACKED UP! THINK THINK THINK!

Boston1775 @ 68

I think the sadness of Imus is that his true living is not made on hate. There are others who live to hate another day.

Sadly, yes.

raven @ 66

S.O.S. from MA @ 40

Interesting points about our stalwart Congresscritters doing their thing without being distracted by things Imusian. It may very well be that this takedown of a major media figure will be a harbinger of better [i.e., worser] things to come for the hatemongers of the political Wurlitzer. But I fear not. They are probably too well insulated by their friends in the Oligarchy… but this thread could be interesting :)

The difference I see, and I know most FDL folks disagree, is that Imus was enigmatic in that he did go after people on both sides of the spectrum. The vast majority people that listen to the Limbaughs and Bortz’s are on one side and they eat their bullshit up. I cringed a great deal at Imus but I still liked the way he championed some causes.

For myself, about the only positive I could ever say for Imus was we shared some of the same musical tastes. I would occasionally stop if I was surfing by and he had Delbert or Kinky or EmmyLou on but that was about it for me.

MSNBC doin wall to wall on the Imus story..One of the recurrent themes: Imus shouldn’t be fired for what he said- on account of hip hop groups use the same language- and they don’t get fired.

Now this is fuckin insane. I don’t listen to hip hop- unless it’s through someone else’s car window- but what the fuck- the fact that someone says “nappy headed ho” in a SONG- isn’t at all the same thing as a grown man CALLING some REAL PEOPLE “Nappy Headed Ho’s”.

This is a kind of strange psychological disorder that causes people to mistake the saying of the word with abusing someone with it–

Can someone explain?

bmaz @ 61

On the “loss” of the email data by the Administration, I posted the following in a discussion at Kevin Drum’s site, I think it is applicable here (and I am to lazy to come up with a new thought):

“Today the Bush Administration admitted it had destroyed computer evidence that was legally required to be maintained. Forensic computer experts consistently state that, with the right effort, just about anything can be recovered from a hard drive. Even when things cannot be recovered, there are traces, bits, pieces, etc. there that, at a minimum, indicate the previous existence of the items and their characteristics. If this is really true, and it sure appears to be, then the clear cut violation of the Presidential Records Act serves as an unassailable predicate for the seizure of the appropriate computers and hard drives from the Administration. They should be so seized and analyzed; they will either show evidence that confirms the emails and documents in question were there and erased, including WHEN they were erased, or alternatively it will result in a finding that hard drives were replaced with clean ones in an attempt to obstruct justice (and an attendant conspiracy case that would boggle the mind). Substantive criminal evidence results either way, and the public is entitled to the discovery of that evidence. There is no legitimate basis for the Administration to refuse this either; the predicate crime has been directly admitted by them already, and this places the matter beyond executive privilege under Nixon v. US. This is simply not politics anymore, that canard is over; this is criminal behavior that strikes at the heart of our democracy, open and accountable government. The time has come to investigate and prosecute; end of story.

Yup.

Congress already has Monica Goodling’s computer.

But, I’ll bet that the really extreme wingers out there will be pronouncing this a victory–because Imus was a “liberal” for voting for Kerry….

Nope — this is our victory, because we self-police. (*g*)

Michael Savage is by far teh most odious hate monger out there. Bar none.

But, he is so far out that I don’t think any of the Republicans ever associate with him.

He must make someon some money.

But he is one who calls for genocide and uses terms that dehumanize and villify with shocking coarseness.

-GSD

By the way, his son is the maker of Rockstar energy drinks.

MONTAGE @ 33 And therein lies the problem

But, I’ll bet that the really extreme wingers out there will be pronouncing this a victory–because Imus was a “liberal” for voting for Kerry….

Imus is a real asshole – and quite frankly he is too stupid to really appreciate what he did/said. But the wingers are so sure they are right – that no matter what he says they will not get that it was wrong.

JD21 @ 70

White House burying emails!

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/…..nt-3672059

WE HAVE GOT TO GET THOSE EMAILS. THIS IS NOT A CASE WHERE THE COVERUP IS WORSE THAN THE CRIME. THE REPUBLICANS ARE TERRIFIED. THINK OF THE SERVERS WHERE THEY MAY STILL BE TEMPORARILY STORED OR BACKED UP! THINK THINK THINK!

It would help if there was a story about it somewhere. Like in the NYT, or something.

I caught Scarborough briefly, and heard his bullshit about white people rolling their eyes at this. You know, life is full of hypocrisy and double standards. Get a fuckin’ helmet. Should it surprise anyone that people wake up and say “no more?”

Olbermann hit it right on the head, these women were innocent bystanders who got sucked in to this asshole’s world. Keep in mind that WFAN in NY is an all sports station, and Imus is a holdover from the pre-sports days. Chances are they will replace him on radio with a sports show.

If MSNBC is looking for a replacement to simulcast, may I suggest the Young Turks?

rwcole @ 73

MSNBC doin wall to wall on the Imus story..One of the recurrent themes: Imus shouldn’t be fired for what he said- on account of hip hop groups use the same language- and they don’t get fired.

Now this is fuckin insane. I don’t listen to hip hop- unless it’s through someone else’s car window- but what the fuck- the fact that someone says “nappy headed ho” in a SONG- isn’t at all the same thing as a grown man CALLING some REAL PEOPLE “Nappy Headed Ho’s”.

This is a kind of strange psychological disorder that causes people to mistake the saying of the word with abusing someone with it–

Can someone explain?

It’s not the same. It perpetuates self-hatred and sexism in that community.

Doesn’t Congress control the FCC? It was created by Congress.

NRA guys should get this- it’s like the difference between doin target practice with a gun and goin out an shootin someone with it.

In my opinion, the people who deserve the credit for raising public consciousness about hate speech on the radio (and thereby perhaps putting an end to Don Imus’ vitriol) are Spocko, El Gato Negro, Mike Stark et al., who labored so long and so successfully against the bilge pumped out by KFSO.

I hope Imus finally understands what his words have been doing all these years. He may not be a bad person inside, but the stuff he said is poisonous. If he reaches genuine contrition, and I hope he does, maybe some kind network will give him another chance.

Twenty years ago, Al Campanis on Ted Koppel’s “Nightline” said, in a very matter of fact manner, that black managers were too dumb to succeed in baseball. At the time he was general manager of the LA Dodgers. Two days later he was fired. And as bigoted as Campanis was, he did not intend offense, he was merely breathtakingly ignorant. (In fact he was on the Koppel show in commemoration of Jackie Robinson’s breaking the color barrier in major league baseball; Campanis had been a friend and supporter of Jackie Robinson.) What Imus said was malevolent. Campanis was a thoughtless bigot; Imus a calculating one, and in my opinion, far worse.

things come undone @ 62

I just heard Joe Scarbrough giving the GOP standared Moral Equivalency arguement without context of course. Black rappers do sometimes say bad things, they don’t say them on Network TV Joe. I want a world where talk of killing muslims is not broadcast on tv or radio. Just because some Muslims nuts bombed us do we hold all Muslims responible for their actions? Or the next time an abortion clinic is bombed do we hold all Christians and not just the FundeMENTALists responsible and liable for damages! How many hatecrimes can be linked to right wing talk radio when they call for their followers to get violent? I think its time for broadcast media to be held liable! Telling others to commit violence even indirectly on radio is murder when you consider all the mentaly unstable people out there who take this crap seriously. I want Rush, Savage and Ann in OZ!

When *was* the last time Fifty Cent appeared on CNN as some kind of political expert?

dakine01 @ 64

Phoenix Woman @ 56

dakine01 @ 20

My guess is that the next one of these idiots to go down will (should) be Glenn Beck.

My $.02

That would be lovely!

I did read that his ratings are among the very lowest in prime time cable so natural inertia should cause him to go if nothing else. I forget what the ratings point was but I think it translated to the 150-200k viewers range.

Usually, they’re not that bad. Unfortunately.

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/ratings/

Tucker is usually at the bottom of the barrel

Georgesimian @ 78

JD21 @ 70

White House burying emails!

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/…..nt-3672059

WE HAVE GOT TO GET THOSE EMAILS. THIS IS NOT A CASE WHERE THE COVERUP IS WORSE THAN THE CRIME. THE REPUBLICANS ARE TERRIFIED. THINK OF THE SERVERS WHERE THEY MAY STILL BE TEMPORARILY STORED OR BACKED UP! THINK THINK THINK!

It would help if there was a story about it somewhere. Like in the NYT, or something.

Maybe someone will do a post and we can all spotlight it tonight.

Eli @ 53

Teddy, I had a question for you @ #39…

I do not know whether KSFO has taken a hit in their reputation.

Phoenix Woman @ 74

bmaz @ 61

On the “loss” of the email data by the Administration, I posted the following in a discussion at Kevin Drum’s site, I think it is applicable here (and I am to lazy to come up with a new thought):

“Today the Bush Administration admitted it had destroyed computer evidence that was legally required to be maintained. Forensic computer experts consistently state that, with the right effort, just about anything can be recovered from a hard drive. Even when things cannot be recovered, there are traces, bits, pieces, etc. there that, at a minimum, indicate the previous existence of the items and their characteristics. If this is really true, and it sure appears to be, then the clear cut violation of the Presidential Records Act serves as an unassailable predicate for the seizure of the appropriate computers and hard drives from the Administration. They should be so seized and analyzed; they will either show evidence that confirms the emails and documents in question were there and erased, including WHEN they were erased, or alternatively it will result in a finding that hard drives were replaced with clean ones in an attempt to obstruct justice (and an attendant conspiracy case that would boggle the mind). Substantive criminal evidence results either way, and the public is entitled to the discovery of that evidence. There is no legitimate basis for the Administration to refuse this either; the predicate crime has been directly admitted by them already, and this places the matter beyond executive privilege under Nixon v. US. This is simply not politics anymore, that canard is over; this is criminal behavior that strikes at the heart of our democracy, open and accountable government. The time has come to investigate and prosecute; end of story.

Yup.

Congress already has Monica Goodling’s computer.

Um – pretend I am stupid – How and where?

Boston1775 @ 68

I think the sadness of Imus is that his true living is not made on hate. There are others who live to hate another day.

He would probably not have been my first choice as the first person to go, but what he said, and who he said it about, really was truly awful, and I think he got what he deserved.

Rob Zuber @ 32

We can use this Imus fiasco to our advantage. KO tonight was already highlighting specific statements from Rush, Beck, etc. This might finally be a way of getting the mainstream media to listen to our valid complaints about the sleaze on the right.

Howard Kurtz must be clutching his pearls tonight!

heh –

faux pearls no doubt….

rwcole @ 73

MSNBC doin wall to wall on the Imus story..One of the recurrent themes: Imus shouldn’t be fired for what he said- on account of hip hop groups use the same language- and they don’t get fired.

Now this is fuckin insane. I don’t listen to hip hop- unless it’s through someone else’s car window- but what the fuck- the fact that someone says “nappy headed ho” in a SONG- isn’t at all the same thing as a grown man CALLING some REAL PEOPLE “Nappy Headed Ho’s”.

This is a kind of strange psychological disorder that causes people to mistake the saying of the word with abusing someone with it–

Can someone explain?

Have noticed that most of the defenders you speak of are those like Scarbrough, David Gregory, Craig Crawford, Hacktackular Howie Kurtz, etc. Notice a trend here? Middle-aged white guys that don’t get that they don’t rule the world. Many of the same media enablers of BushCo and LIEberman. Good ol boys club members. (BTW, I’m a white mid-50s southern born life long liberal).

JD21 @ 70

White House burying emails!

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/…..nt-3672059

WE HAVE GOT TO GET THOSE EMAILS. THIS IS NOT A CASE WHERE THE COVERUP IS WORSE THAN THE CRIME. THE REPUBLICANS ARE TERRIFIED. THINK OF THE SERVERS WHERE THEY MAY STILL BE TEMPORARILY STORED OR BACKED UP! THINK THINK THINK!

My husband is a director of Information Technology, he is telling me they back up email servers every day, however, they tape over them after 8 weeks. They could really be gone folks. All it would take is a phone call to make sure they were disappeared.

The wheels are coming off (I hope this is not an illsion)… The republican crime machine is looking for cover and finding it nowhere. Every story is a disaster.

We need to end this war without letting bush pass this on to the next congress of the next administration. We need to save human lives and our treasure and get the looted money back from the war profiteers.

We have a lot of catching up to do just to get back to where we were before these criminals took us down the road to disaster.

David Derbes @ 83

In my opinion, the people who deserve the credit for raising public consciousness about hate speech on the radio (and thereby perhaps putting an end to Don Imus’ vitriol) are Spocko, El Gato Negro, Mike Stark et al., who labored so long and so successfully against the bilge pumped out by KFSO.

I hope Imus finally understands what his words have been doing all these years. He may not be a bad person inside, but the stuff he said is poisonous. If he reaches genuine contrition, and I hope he does, maybe some kind network will give him another chance.

Twenty years ago, Al Campanis on Ted Koppel’s “Nightline” said, in a very matter of fact manner, that black managers were too dumb to succeed in baseball. At the time he was general manager of the LA Dodgers. Two days later he was fired. And as bigoted as Campanis was, he did not intend offense, he was merely breathtakingly ignorant. (In fact he was on the Koppel show in commemoration of Jackie Robinson’s breaking the color barrier in major league baseball; Campanis had been a friend and supporter of Jackie Robinson.) What Imus said was malevolent. Campanis was a thoughtless bigot; Imus a calculating one, and in my opinion, far worse.

ding!

Congress already has Monica Goodling’s computer.

Does it have her resume on it?

David Derbes @ 83

Twenty years ago, Al Campanis on Ted Koppel’s “Nightline” said, in a very matter of fact manner, that black managers were too dumb to succeed in baseball. At the time he was general manager of the LA Dodgers. Two days later he was fired. And as bigoted as Campanis was, he did not intend offense, he was merely breathtakingly ignorant. (In fact he was on the Koppel show in commemoration of Jackie Robinson’s breaking the color barrier in major league baseball; Campanis had been a friend and supporter of Jackie Robinson.) What Imus said was malevolent. Campanis was a thoughtless bigot; Imus a calculating one, and in my opinion, far worse.

Yes, I remembered that too… And Jimmy The Greek. Both fired pretty much instantly, 20 years ago.

David Derbes @ 83

In my opinion, the people who deserve the credit for raising public consciousness about hate speech on the radio (and thereby perhaps putting an end to Don Imus’ vitriol) are Spocko, El Gato Negro, Mike Stark et al., who labored so long and so successfully against the bilge pumped out by KFSO.

I hope Imus finally understands what his words have been doing all these years. He may not be a bad person inside, but the stuff he said is poisonous. If he reaches genuine contrition, and I hope he does, maybe some kind network will give him another chance.

Twenty years ago, Al Campanis on Ted Koppel’s “Nightline” said, in a very matter of fact manner, that black managers were too dumb to succeed in baseball. At the time he was general manager of the LA Dodgers. Two days later he was fired. And as bigoted as Campanis was, he did not intend offense, he was merely breathtakingly ignorant. (In fact he was on the Koppel show in commemoration of Jackie Robinson’s breaking the color barrier in major league baseball; Campanis had been a friend and supporter of Jackie Robinson.) What Imus said was malevolent. Campanis was a thoughtless bigot; Imus a calculating one, and in my opinion, far worse.

I’m telling you that on the East Coast we have a horrible hate radio person who cultivates his base for the right wing. He is relentless. Today, he went after the coach of Rutgers. He said he could not suffer her incoherent speech. He influences the New Hampshire vote. He is a menace.

Phoenix Woman @ 74

bmaz @ 61

On the “loss” of the email data by the Administration, I posted the following in a discussion at Kevin Drum’s site, I think it is applicable here (and I am to lazy to come up with a new thought):

“Today the Bush Administration admitted it had destroyed computer evidence that was legally required to be maintained. Forensic computer experts consistently state that, with the right effort, just about anything can be recovered from a hard drive. Even when things cannot be recovered, there are traces, bits, pieces, etc. there that, at a minimum, indicate the previous existence of the items and their characteristics. If this is really true, and it sure appears to be, then the clear cut violation of the Presidential Records Act serves as an unassailable predicate for the seizure of the appropriate computers and hard drives from the Administration. They should be so seized and analyzed; they will either show evidence that confirms the emails and documents in question were there and erased, including WHEN they were erased, or alternatively it will result in a finding that hard drives were replaced with clean ones in an attempt to obstruct justice (and an attendant conspiracy case that would boggle the mind). Substantive criminal evidence results either way, and the public is entitled to the discovery of that evidence. There is no legitimate basis for the Administration to refuse this either; the predicate crime has been directly admitted by them already, and this places the matter beyond executive privilege under Nixon v. US. This is simply not politics anymore, that canard is over; this is criminal behavior that strikes at the heart of our democracy, open and accountable government. The time has come to investigate and prosecute; end of story.

Yup.

Congress already has Monica Goodling’s computer.

Really? Who has it and when/how did they get it?

And Jimmy The Greek. Both fired pretty much instantly, 20 years ago.

What was the shit that Marge Schott spewed?

It’s all a blur after the past six years.

Yes. Seize the computers. Just ask the Justice Department to go get those computers…
Me thinks that the WH will get all new computers before that order is processed.

Per the AP article:
The White House had promised to look through its staffers’ e-mails for anything relevant to the prosecutors’ dismissal. No matter the domain name, it said it would provide documents to the Senate and House Judiciary committees as long as they are not internal communications, but exchanges with people outside the White House.

But the White House also had insisted that this offer of documents be accepted, all-or-nothing, along with its insistence that aides would talk to Congress about the firings, but not under oath.

Can’t wait for January 2009.

watertiger @ 99

And Jimmy The Greek. Both fired pretty much instantly, 20 years ago.

What was the shit that Marge Schott spewed?

It’s all a blur after the past six years.

she liked hitler I think

watertiger @ 99

It’s all a blur after the past six years.

Hitler started out pretty good, but he went all crazy towards the end there.

All I know is if Im-a-wus were my file clerk or best salesman…and he said that.. I would have canned his hide before he finished the sentence.

One down..scores to go..

Twisted Martini @ 79

I caught Scarborough briefly, and heard his bullshit about white people rolling their eyes at this. You know, life is full of hypocrisy and double standards. Get a fuckin’ helmet. Should it surprise anyone that people wake up and say “no more?”

Olbermann hit it right on the head, these women were innocent bystanders who got sucked in to this asshole’s world. Keep in mind that WFAN in NY is an all sports station, and Imus is a holdover from the pre-sports days. Chances are they will replace him on radio with a sports show.

If MSNBC is looking for a replacement to simulcast, may I suggest the Young Turks?

Amen! Cenk Uygur rocks!

rwcole @
73

MSNBC doin wall to wall on the Imus story..One of the recurrent themes: Imus shouldn’t be fired for what he said- on account of hip hop groups use the same language- and they don’t get fired.

Now this is fuckin insane. I don’t listen to hip hop- unless it’s through someone else’s car window- but what the fuck- the fact that someone says “nappy headed ho” in a SONG- isn’t at all the same thing as a grown man CALLING some REAL PEOPLE “Nappy Headed Ho’s”.

This is a kind of strange psychological disorder that causes people to mistake the saying of the word with abusing someone with it–

Can someone explain?

It’s — among other pertinent differential characteristics — the banal tu quoque canard.

The odiousness of BET Gangsta Rap lyrics in no way justifies what Imus did. Lame-assed white cats should stay away from ghetto slang in general, anyway. Yo, y’feel me?

;)

CBS will now have to cave.

Good.
.

bmaz @ 61

On the “loss” of the email data by the Administration, I posted the following in a discussion at Kevin Drum’s site, I think it is applicable here (and I am to lazy to come up with a new thought):

“Today the Bush Administration admitted it had destroyed computer evidence that was legally required to be maintained. Forensic computer experts consistently state that, with the right effort, just about anything can be recovered from a hard drive. Even when things cannot be recovered, there are traces, bits, pieces, etc. there that, at a minimum, indicate the previous existence of the items and their characteristics. If this is really true, and it sure appears to be, then the clear cut violation of the Presidential Records Act serves as an unassailable predicate for the seizure of the appropriate computers and hard drives from the Administration. They should be so seized and analyzed; they will either show evidence that confirms the emails and documents in question were there and erased, including WHEN they were erased, or alternatively it will result in a finding that hard drives were replaced with clean ones in an attempt to obstruct justice (and an attendant conspiracy case that would boggle the mind). Substantive criminal evidence results either way, and the public is entitled to the discovery of that evidence. There is no legitimate basis for the Administration to refuse this either; the predicate crime has been directly admitted by them already, and this places the matter beyond executive privilege under Nixon v. US. This is simply not politics anymore, that canard is over; this is criminal behavior that strikes at the heart of our democracy, open and accountable government. The time has come to investigate and prosecute; end of story.

Alright! that’s what I’ve been wondering about. Go get ‘em!

On November 13, 1992, Charles “Cal” Levy, a former marketing director for the Reds, stated in a deposition for Tom Sabo, a former employee who was suing the team that he’d heard Schott refer to then-Reds outfielders Eric Davis and Dave Parker as “million-dollar ni&&&ers.” [2] Sabo, whose position was “team controller,” alleged that his 1991 firing was due to testifying against her in another lawsuit brought against Schott by several limited partners and because he opposed the unwritten policy of not hiring blacks. Schott’s countersuit alleged that Sabo wrote unauthorized checks to himself and paid health insurance premiums to retired front-office employees. She also asked for $25,000 in damages for defamation. Tom Sabo ultimately lost his suit.

Levy, a Jew, also alleged that Schott kept an old Nazi swastika armband at her home and claims he overheard her say “sneaky goddamn Jews are all alike.”[3] The next day, Schott issued a statement saying the claims of racism levied against her were overstated and that she didn’t mean to offend anyone with her statement or her ownership of the armband. On November 29, Schott said the “million dollar n*%%*ers” comment was made in jest, but then stated that she felt that Adolf Hitler was initially good for Germany and didn’t understand how the epithet “Jap” could be offensive.

watertiger @ 95

Congress already has Monica Goodling’s computer.

Does it have her resume on it?

And give us Rachael Pulose’s resume, too.

Mods: I messed 97 up and my comment has become part of David Derbes quote.

My comment begins with I’m telling and ends with menace.

Sorry about that. I can’t seem to fix this.

WHOA!! Hey MSNBC and CBS, what’s your problem?? Remember Howard Cosell’s infamous and “inadvertent” “excitement of the moment” comment about a football player who outran the oppposition one Monday night way back when? Remember the “He probably would have said the same thing about a white player”? (Quote: “Look at that little monkey go!!”)

He was outta there in pretty much less than a heartbeat. Why’s it taking so long to make a decision about the current racist scumbag remark? GET A SPINE.

Larry King just said Bill Clinton will be his guest tomorrow evening – hope and trust he asks bubba about Imus – who btw – banned both Clinton’s from his show – or so I read earlier today someone on da tubes.

ReElect President Albert Gore 2008! Accept no substitutes – can you imagine this fine man having staff illegally delete emails and lie under oath? Not a chance!

Wasabi@100 – But that is the beauty of the situation; if they have new computers or hard drives, that is almost more damning because that is effectively proof positive of obstruction of justice and a conspiracy to do so.

newspaperbrat @ 111

ReElect President Albert Gore 2008! Accept no substitutes – can you imagine this fine man having staff illegally delete emails and lie under oath? Not a chance!

I can’t imagine him ever having cause to…

Eli @ 102

watertiger @ 99

Hitler started out pretty good, but he went all crazy towards the end there.

He didn’t actually get fired, but…

Cosell drew criticism during one Monday Night Football telecast in September 1983, for stating “that little monkey gets loose, doesn’t he,” when he referred to a play by wide receiver Alvin Garrett of the Washington Redskins. While some saw “little monkey” as a racial slur, others who knew Cosell were quick to point out that he used this term routinely in an approving way to describe quicker, smaller players of all ethnicities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Cosell

I saw that game btw, and just cringed and shook my head when he said it

dideau @
110

WHOA!! Hey MSNBC and CBS, what’s your problem?? Remember Howard Cosell’s infamous and “inadvertent” “excitement of the moment” comment about a football player who outran the oppposition one Monday night way back when? Remember the “He probably would have said the same thing about a white player”? (Quote: “Look at that little monkey go!!”)

He was outta there in pretty much less than a heartbeat. Why’s it taking so long to make a decision about the current racist scumbag remark? GET A SPINE.

Heh ; )

What’s so stunning about the Imus debacle is how out of touch so many ivy league, “liberal” pundits are — to watch Oliphant on the PBS Newshour defending Imus, to see so many others stand up for Imus, amazing.

I work for an elevator maintenance & repair company in NYC — think the bluest of blue collar professions, mainly Irish & Italian, those deeply racist so-called Reagan Democrats who fled the city for Long Island. And, believe me, the kind of crap Imus spews does not happen in our workplace, not because there are any rules against it, just that it’s not done. Sure, the guys will pass racist comments out in the street, with their helper or another (white) guy they can trust, but in the common space of the shop, never.

This change has happened with no social engineering from the good so-called liberals like Fineman or Oliphant who sneer at the racist blue collar types. It’s a demographic change, a change in the makeup of the society that has passed these pundit clowns by.

The point I made in the shop discussion was that I’d like to see Imus & his rich white posse who take such pleasure in their ghetto talk — well, let’s see them walk the walk, come here and meet our 6′8″ 300 lb black employee, let’s see them come here, face to face, unprotected by their wealth, their doormen, their police, come here & talk that ghetto talk. Somehow ain’t gonna happen.

Good evening all.

bmaz @ 61

On the “loss” of the email data by the Administration, I posted the following in a discussion at Kevin Drum’s site, I think it is applicable here (and I am to lazy to come up with a new thought):

“Today the Bush Administration admitted it had destroyed computer evidence that was legally required to be maintained. Forensic computer experts consistently state that, with the right effort, just about anything can be recovered from a hard drive. Even when things cannot be recovered, there are traces, bits, pieces, etc. there that, at a minimum, indicate the previous existence of the items and their characteristics. If this is really true, and it sure appears to be, then the clear cut violation of the Presidential Records Act serves as an unassailable predicate for the seizure of the appropriate computers and hard drives from the Administration. They should be so seized and analyzed; they will either show evidence that confirms the emails and documents in question were there and erased, including WHEN they were erased, or alternatively it will result in a finding that hard drives were replaced with clean ones in an attempt to obstruct justice (and an attendant conspiracy case that would boggle the mind). Substantive criminal evidence results either way, and the public is entitled to the discovery of that evidence. There is no legitimate basis for the Administration to refuse this either; the predicate crime has been directly admitted by them already, and this places the matter beyond executive privilege under Nixon v. US. This is simply not politics anymore, that canard is over; this is criminal behavior that strikes at the heart of our democracy, open and accountable government. The time has come to investigate and prosecute; end of story.

I hope you are sending that in a letter to all your Congresspeople and chairs of committees, etc. Mind if I plagiarize you?

TeddySanFran @ 75

But, I’ll bet that the really extreme wingers out there will be pronouncing this a victory–because Imus was a “liberal” for voting for Kerry….

Nope — this is our victory, because we self-police. (*g*)

Watch for it. It’s coming. :)

The drip, drip, drip of rain with an acidic pH level has over time altered small lakes of northern Canada to register acidic levels of mild vinegar.

Similarly, the daily drip, drip, drip of Shock Jock, wingnut radio has had a toxic effect on American political discussion.

People are imitative. They enact what they see and they hear. Aggressive, demeaning language sets the stage for aggressive, destructive behaviors. Enough!

Time to move on.

Boys and girls in the tech world; help me. We know that we can seize stuff from stooopid people. Have Henry and John and Patrick moved fast enough? Is this stuff there forever? Assume someone gives you world peace and $50,000,000 to get rid of this stuff. Can you?

nice post, Eli

Congress has Monica’s puter?

montag @ 119

Watch for it. It’s coming. :)

I don’t doubt it. But all that would prove is that we don’t even accept racism and misogyny from our own. If he actually *were* one of our own.

Eli @
113

newspaperbrat @ 111

ReElect President Albert Gore 2008! Accept no substitutes – can you imagine this fine man having staff illegally delete emails and lie under oath? Not a chance!

I can’t imagine him ever having cause to…

Agreed. Can’t imagine Edwards getting into that kind of a situation either.

Helen @ 121

Boys and girls in the tech world; help me. We know that we can seize stuff from stooopid people. Have Henry and John and Patrick moved fast enough? Is this stuff there forever? Assume someone gives you world peace and $50,000,000 to get rid of this stuff. Can you?

See rxbusa says: @ 118

Thanks, pun!

The administration has proven it cannot be trusted to retain their own records.

Congress must start subpoena’ing and seizing evidence, including laptops, immediately – tonight if possible.

rwcole @ 73

I have seen/heard Imus only when there has been a tiny clip on some news program or other, Limbaugh for a couple of seconds when cruising the dial, but I am assaulted by disgusting violent lyrics nearly every time try to listen to pop music on the radio, most of it hip hop and rap. Condoning or lauding seditious disgusting gutter mouths of any hue should be criminal. It is a travesty to suggest this is ‘free speech’. If it is ‘free speech’ bring on censorship!

bmaz @ 61

On the “loss” of the email data by the Administration, I posted the following in a discussion at Kevin Drum’s site, I think it is applicable here (and I am to lazy to come up with a new thought):

“Today the Bush Administration admitted it had destroyed computer evidence that was legally required to be maintained. Forensic computer experts consistently state that, with the right effort, just about anything can be recovered from a hard drive. Even when things cannot be recovered, there are traces, bits, pieces, etc. there that, at a minimum, indicate the previous existence of the items and their characteristics. If this is really true, and it sure appears to be, then the clear cut violation of the Presidential Records Act serves as an unassailable predicate for the seizure of the appropriate computers and hard drives from the Administration. They should be so seized and analyzed; they will either show evidence that confirms the emails and documents in question were there and erased, including WHEN they were erased, or alternatively it will result in a finding that hard drives were replaced with clean ones in an attempt to obstruct justice (and an attendant conspiracy case that would boggle the mind). Substantive criminal evidence results either way, and the public is entitled to the discovery of that evidence. There is no legitimate basis for the Administration to refuse this either; the predicate crime has been directly admitted by them already, and this places the matter beyond executive privilege under Nixon v. US. This is simply not politics anymore, that canard is over; this is criminal behavior that strikes at the heart of our democracy, open and accountable government. The time has come to investigate and prosecute; end of story.

Thanks for the Facts. Kinda sounds like they want the computers and emails to take the 5th. Just sayin….

rxbusa@119 – Have at it; spread it far and wide, anybody else too. I am doing the same. I am not saying it is the magic bullet to all our woes, but if you want a crime and investigation that is clear cut, it isn’t going to get any better.

Leisler NYC @ 116

…The point I made in the shop discussion was that I’d like to see Imus & his rich white posse who take such pleasure in their ghetto talk — well, let’s see them walk the walk, come here and meet our 6′8″ 300 lb black employee, let’s see them come here, face to face, unprotected by their wealth, their doormen, their police, come here & talk that ghetto talk. Somehow ain’t gonna happen.

I had that same thought. I’d like to see Imus show up at my gym (24 Hr Fitness Sport at Sahara & Buffalo, Vegas) on Saturday mornings, when it’s mostly 6′4″ and taller and black on the court — including some big Div I and pro chick players with tattoos and “nappy” hair. Let him rap on about “jigaboos” and “nappy-headed hos” tryin’ to show his homie Cred.

Check your policy limits, co-pays, and deductibles first, Don Ho. Y’feel me, yo?
.

Eli @
102

watertiger @ 99

For about six months — I can’t remember, but he killed off Roehm and the Brown Shirts PDQ I think.
Hitler started out pretty good, but he went all crazy towards the end there.

What upsets me, because I track the local hate radio is that what I hear in Boston is positively terrifying; so much worse than Imus.

I want officials to recognize this. I want them to understand that the FCC is run by Cathie Martin’s husband who will not object to making immigrants worthy of murder.

bmaz @ 61

the clear cut violation of the Presidential Records Act serves as an unassailable predicate for the seizure of the appropriate computers and hard drives from the Administration. They should be so seized and analyzed; they will either show evidence that confirms the emails and documents in question were there and erased, including WHEN they were erased, or alternatively it will result in a finding that hard drives were replaced with clean ones in an attempt to obstruct justice (and an attendant conspiracy case that would boggle the mind). Substantive criminal evidence results either way, and the public is entitled to the discovery of that evidence…..

Yes, the “mishandling” of critical records in violation of the law means that the executive branch has failed in its duties under the law and that it is the duty of Congress to investigate this lapse immediately.

Boston1775 @ 134

What upsets me, because I track the local hate radio is that what I hear in Boston is positively terrifying; so much worse than Imus.

I want an official to recognize this. I want them to understand that the FCC is run by Cathie Martin’s husband who will not object to making immigrants worthy of murder.

Have you read any of the KSFO stuff spocko documented? How does it compare to that?

Unfortunately, this government is never going to go after their allies, no matter how vile they are.

GAWD – my feelings are hurt. Why is this so difficult? Didn’t we write this shit down 230 years ago? I have duel citizenship; I can leave but I don’t wanna. America and all of it’s glories is why my mom came here. Sorry if I am sounding maudlin.

Eli,
I must beg to differ. You offer this on Imus, of whom I have had quite enough, thank you, while I see NOTHING today on FDL lead stories today about what’s happening over in Sen. Feingold’s hearing on the Constitution. For some reason, my computer (both Realplayer and Windows Media Player) is objecting to the video streaming from the Senate Webcast site, so I haven’t been able to follow it at all. I keep coming back to FDL, hoping eagerly to find some of the same kind of helpful commentaries that were de rigeuer during the Libby trial, so please understand why I am less than satisfied when I come back only to find yet more again on Imus. Please!

Bob in HI

The loss of the White House emails is I think an innocent mistake. I heard that Bush accidentally threw some of them away when he was out clearing brush. The others Barney ate.

bmaz @ 61

“Today the Bush Administration admitted it had destroyed computer evidence that was legally required to be maintained. … …. This is simply not politics anymore, that canard is over; this is criminal behavior that strikes at the heart of our democracy, open and accountable government. The time has come to investigate and prosecute; end of story.

Criminal.

I can not think of a single database admin or server admin who would be able to keep their job if the data were missing.

Don’t believe me?
Ask Bank of America.
Ask any large retailer.

Not only would the person be fired, they’d be prosecuted for destroying information of value to the employer/organization.

Does congress have a law enforcement arm independent of the executive other than the capital police?

Can congress get computers tonight somehow?

Wow-za. Accountability for both the government AND the media. It’s like I’ve stepped into a (much improved) parallel universe.

Bob Schacht @
138

Eli,
I must beg to differ. You offer this on Imus, of whom I have had quite enough, thank you, while I see NOTHING today on FDL lead stories today about what’s happening over in Sen. Feingold’s hearing on the Constitution. For some reason, my computer (both Realplayer and Windows Media Player) is objecting to the video streaming from the Senate Webcast site, so I haven’t been able to follow it at all. I keep coming back to FDL, hoping eagerly to find some of the same kind of helpful commentaries that were de rigeuer during the Libby trial, so please understand why I am less than satisfied when I come back only to find yet more again on Imus. Please!

Bob in HI

I was tired of the Imus story about 10 minutes after it started.

Bob Schacht @ 138

Eli,
I must beg to differ. You offer this on Imus, of whom I have had quite enough, thank you, while I see NOTHING today on FDL lead stories today about what’s happening over in Sen. Feingold’s hearing on the Constitution. For some reason, my computer (both Realplayer and Windows Media Player) is objecting to the video streaming from the Senate Webcast site, so I haven’t been able to follow it at all. I keep coming back to FDL, hoping eagerly to find some of the same kind of helpful commentaries that were de rigeuer during the Libby trial, so please understand why I am less than satisfied when I come back only to find yet more again on Imus. Please!

Bob in HI

You are wrong Bob – I was live-blogging it and no one was listening; so I gave up

Helen @ 144

Bob Schacht @ 138

Eli,
I must beg to differ. You offer this on Imus, of whom I have had quite enough, thank you, while I see NOTHING today on FDL lead stories today about what’s happening over in Sen. Feingold’s hearing on the Constitution. For some reason, my computer (both Realplayer and Windows Media Player) is objecting to the video streaming from the Senate Webcast site, so I haven’t been able to follow it at all. I keep coming back to FDL, hoping eagerly to find some of the same kind of helpful commentaries that were de rigeuer during the Libby trial, so please understand why I am less than satisfied when I come back only to find yet more again on Imus. Please!

Bob in HI

You are wrong Bob – I was live-blogging it and no one was listening; so I gave up

I was listening.

wasabi @ 100

Yes. Seize the computers. Just ask the Justice Department to go get those computers…
Me thinks that the WH will get all new computers before that order is processed.

Per the AP article:
The White House had promised to look through its staffers’ e-mails for anything relevant to the prosecutors’ dismissal. No matter the domain name, it said it would provide documents to the Senate and House Judiciary committees as long as they are not internal communications, but exchanges with people outside the White House.

But the White House also had insisted that this offer of documents be accepted, all-or-nothing, along with its insistence that aides would talk to Congress about the firings, but not under oath.

Can’t wait for January 2009.

That was before the subpoena:

http://judiciary.house.gov/Med…..070410.pdf

What I think is important about the Imus story is that Imus is part of the Wurlitzer. Today, a big name piece of that Wurlitzer was fired. A big piece.

I want that Wurlitzer dismantled.

Helen @ 144

Bob Schacht @ 138

Eli,
I must beg to differ. You offer this on Imus, of whom I have had quite enough, thank you, while I see NOTHING today on FDL lead stories today about what’s happening over in Sen. Feingold’s hearing on the Constitution. For some reason, my computer (both Realplayer and Windows Media Player) is objecting to the video streaming from the Senate Webcast site, so I haven’t been able to follow it at all. I keep coming back to FDL, hoping eagerly to find some of the same kind of helpful commentaries that were de rigeuer during the Libby trial, so please understand why I am less than satisfied when I come back only to find yet more again on Imus. Please!

Bob in HI

You are wrong Bob – I was live-blogging it and no one was listening; so I gave up

Oh wait – did I prove your point?

Eli,

I read Spocko’s stuff and decided to go after this using the Attorney General, the US Attorney (first to say no) and my local District Attorney.

I am saying that I am a victim. This man does not speak for me simply because I am white and live in the listening area.

I am also asking the ACLU and ADL to look into the broadcasts that called for the murder of people that he has described in callous, hateful terms.

readerOfTeaLeaves @ 140

bmaz @ 61

“Today the Bush Administration admitted it had destroyed computer evidence that was legally required to be maintained. … …. This is simply not politics anymore, that canard is over; this is criminal behavior that strikes at the heart of our democracy, open and accountable government. The time has come to investigate and prosecute; end of story.

Criminal.

I can not think of a single database admin or server admin who would be able to keep their job if the data were missing.

Don’t believe me?
Ask Bank of America.
Ask any large retailer.

Not only would the person be fired, they’d be prosecuted for destroying information of value to the employer/organization.

Businesses have retention policy for email and other servers for backups. You can’t compare the two.

Boston1775 @ 149

Eli,

I read Spocko’s stuff and decided to go after this using the Attorney General, the US Attorney (first to say no) and my local District Attorney.

I am saying that I am a victim. This man does not speak for me simply because I am white and live in the listening area.

I am also asking the ACLU and ADL to look into the broadcasts that called for the murder of people that he has described in callous, hateful terms.

Have you considered contacting spocko or Mike Stark? I bet they would be *more* than happy to give you some suggestions. Spocko’s strategy was to contact the corporate parent (who obviously didn’t care) and the sponsors (some of whom did, thus leading to KSFO’s panicky freakout).

Frank Probst @ 145

Helen @ 144

Bob Schacht @ 138

Eli,
I must beg to differ. You offer this on Imus, of whom I have had quite enough, thank you, while I see NOTHING today on FDL lead stories today about what’s happening over in Sen. Feingold’s hearing on the Constitution. For some reason, my computer (both Realplayer and Windows Media Player) is objecting to the video streaming from the Senate Webcast site, so I haven’t been able to follow it at all. I keep coming back to FDL, hoping eagerly to find some of the same kind of helpful commentaries that were de rigeuer during the Libby trial, so please understand why I am less than satisfied when I come back only to find yet more again on Imus. Please!

Bob in HI

You are wrong Bob – I was live-blogging it and no one was listening; so I gave up

I was listening.

Thank you – if you (or anyone) had said – keep going I would have. And I will be there on Tuesday with Gonzo. I have cleared my schedule. My staff thinks I am working hard!!

Senate passes stem cell bill.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/

Tom the Dancing Bug at Salon is good today: “L’il George and the hornet’s nest“.

Regardless of what we want, the Imus story is hot right now and we could conceivably use it to raise awareness of Beck, Savage, etc. There are larger issues here that are important.

Even if we take the White House and keep the Congress in ‘08, I have little doubt that a fully functioning Wurlitzer can bring it all down again. Just look at the ridiculous Pelosi story. Imagine that times 100, every day.

sunny @
60

Replace him with Phil Donahue!!

YES!!!

Bob in HI

Suggested titles for an Imus autobiography:

IPod person

All hat and no cattle

Shock schlock

Others?

xyz said:
Yes, the “mishandling” of critical records in violation of the law means that the executive branch has failed in its duties under the law and that it is the duty of Congress to investigate this lapse immediately.

Rove says man the virtual paper shredders and man the lifeboats. Rove thinks that a “War Czar” is needed to act as flypaper for the shi*storm of criticism that is poised to take down the entire Rethuglican party caused by the disaster that is the Shrub.

Rob Zuber @ 155

Regardless of what we want, the Imus story is hot right now and we could conceivably use it to raise awareness of Beck, Savage, etc. There are larger issues here that are important.

Even if we take the White House and keep the Congress in ‘08, I have little doubt that a fully functioning Wurlitzer can bring it all down again. Just look at the ridiculous Pelosi story. Imagine that times 100, every day.

Exactly. Cleaning up the media is vitally important.

Loo Hoo @ 153

Senate passes stem cell bill.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/

excellent!

Bobby G. Great letter. Also small world – Somerville High School 1961. Nice to meet you here. This is such a great place.

Loo Hoo @ 153

Senate passes stem cell bill.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/

Not veto-proof, but getting close.

Waving good evening to TexasBetsy! What’s happening in the Lone Star state?

Our Governator Ahnold was in Washington today making a remarkable speech for a Republican – exhorting his committment to the environment with alternative fuel for our countless cars within the State. Hasn’t gotten much play in the press yet – as you know Imus is the MSM story of this happy day.

For anyone who missed Ahnold CSpan 1 covered it live and it will surely be repeated. I recommend it if for no other reason then to catch the questions from the besotted Georgetown University audience. :~)

Phoenix Woman @ 74

… Congress already has Monica Goodling’s computer.

That is GREAT news. (I’d love to see a link, just to savor it…?) Could be the ballgame, especially if one more disk is found somewheres else with Cc’s of some of the same msgs. Logical congruence virtually proves a common origin.

I envy (and kinda pity) the techies to whom Congress will entrust this investigation. They’ll be walking into a white-hot technological and political crucible. I know this because when the Nixon WH was gobsmacked with our “Panel of Experts”’s findings on the 18.5-minute-gap Watergate tape, things got pretty dicey awfully fast.

All of us had been jointly chosen by mutual consent between the Special Prosecutor and the WH, and were thus presumed to be to the taste of both sides and the late Judge John Sirica.

But when our report showed the WH to be liars, their Chief Counsel, the late James St. Clair, got up in Court and said “Your Honor, it’s time for us to retain our own experts!” to which the leader of our team, the late Dick Bolt, drew his patrician frame up to its full six-foot-one and retorted: “But Your Honor, I thought WE were your experts!”

But St. Clair harrumphed in his Barrister-y way and insisted on his right to go with another bunch of techies, this one from the Stanford Research Institute — who ended up finding yet more ironclad proof of WH skullduggery with the evidence! So they were neatly hoist by their own petard. It was a beautiful thing to contemplate. They must have been SO pissed.

Godspeed to whomever does the scientific/engineering work in this crucial case.

I wrote some more about the WH email case and its similarity to the Watergate Tape case (which I played a bit part in) a couple days back… if you didn’t catch it then and if you’re interested, you can check http://tinyurl.com/2furqg (let it load, that was a long thread) and then posts 196 and 226. Enjoy :)

“When it comes to listeners, Imus doesn’t even make the top ten” – Anderson Cooper

So there you go. When it comes to ratings, CNN isn’t any better than Faux

Vultures…

newspaperbrat @ 163

Waving good evening to TexasBetsy! What’s happening in the Lone Star state?

Our Governator Ahnold was in Washington today making a remarkable speech for a Republican – exhorting his committment to the environment with alternative fuel for our countless cars within the State. Hasn’t gotten much play in the press yet – as you know Imus is the MSM story of this happy day.

For anyone who missed Ahnold CSpan 1 covered it live and it will surely be repeated. I recommend it if for no other reason then to catch the questions from the besotted Georgetown University audience. :~)

Howdy Newspaperbrat! I understand you’ll be filling my mailbox later in the week?

Eli @ 162

Loo Hoo @ 153

Senate passes stem cell bill.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/

Not veto-proof, but getting close.

OMG – we at Memorial Sloan Kettering are shocked.

One aspect of this Imus firing is that his hateful comments legitimate the use of those words he used. I can safely say that the word(s) “nappy-headed” had never crossed my lips until this happened. I caught myself saying it twice today. I disgust myself. But plenty of people laughed, some in a sickly way, others with obvious glee. This would not have flown 20 years ago, when Jimmy the Greek got fired for saying that Black people are better athletes because their ancestors were bred for strength by white plantation owners. As a society, we need this.

TexasBetsy @ 125

Eli @
113

newspaperbrat @ 111

ReElect President Albert Gore 2008! Accept no substitutes – can you imagine this fine man having staff illegally delete emails and lie under oath? Not a chance!

I can’t imagine him ever having cause to…

Agreed. Can’t imagine Edwards getting into that kind of a situation either.

Nor could I and if we can’t persuade or successfuly draft Al Gore my heart will belong to Edwards. Meanwhile I will hold on to my dream of a Gore/Edwards ticket.

newspaperbrat @ 163

Waving good evening to TexasBetsy! What’s happening in the Lone Star state?

Our Governator Ahnold was in Washington today making a remarkable speech for a Republican – exhorting his committment to the environment with alternative fuel for our countless cars within the State. Hasn’t gotten much play in the press yet – as you know Imus is the MSM story of this happy day.

For anyone who missed Ahnold CSpan 1 covered it live and it will surely be repeated. I recommend it if for no other reason then to catch the questions from the besotted Georgetown University audience. :~)

Oh stop News – he is not a Republican. He just pretends to be one.

tbsa @ 150
readerOfTeaLeaves @ 140
bmaz @ 61
“Today the Bush Administration admitted it had destroyed computer evidence that was legally required to be maintained. … …. This is simply not politics anymore, that canard is over; this is criminal behavior that strikes at the heart of our democracy, open and accountable government. The time has come to investigate and prosecute; end of story.

Criminal.

I can not think of a single database admin or server admin who would be able to keep their job if the data were missing.

Don’t believe me?
Ask Bank of America.
Ask any large retailer.

Not only would the person be fired, they’d be prosecuted for destroying information of value to the employer/organization.
Businesses have retention policy for email and other servers for backups. You can’t compare the two.
So does teh government, read the subpoena. The doj is trying to bluff. Unless it was purposely destroyed as in hardware then they are in deep doodoo.

Mod Zig Alert. Please do not quote again. Thanks.

Two things…what a sad comment above about the Coach’s incoherent, or whatever, comments. She spoke well, with candor, empathy, sincerity. Maybe some of that could not be recognized. My other great wish…I keep posting where I can: Get Rush. This is the perfect time & opportunity to reflect on and condemn his feminazi language..as painful, cruel, and unambiguously meanas it can possibly be. One just does not use the Nazi word and not understand the cruelty…no “not what I meant.” He has meant the word as anattack/scorn/insult for any woman of confidence and achievement, somehow out of her place. Then there are the Puff Daschle and Nikita Dean, for a little humor. There is no humor in Feminazi, yet it has survived for years. Wouldn’t a delicious outcome from the Imus callousness be aclearer perception of the Rush sewer mouth.

Stop talking about Imus. He’s dead, he just doesn’t know it yet.

The Bush Administration used racism against the French as part of their policy and their campaign policy. I know people think that it’s fine to make fun of French people, but it’s not fine for the President to do it. The Repugs are all foaming at the mouth with racism so that they can get their idiot immigration laws passed. This is racism that isn’t just being pandered, but is being preached, with real results of dumb kids going and beating up immigrants, and setting fire to their houses with their families in it.

Bush has deleted incriminating emails and it’s not making the papers.

Loo Hoo @ 153

Senate passes stem cell bill.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/

YooHoo…..

Two Democrats Casey (D-PA) and Nelson (D-NE) voted against the stem cell bill.

Helen @ 170

Oh stop News – he is not a Republican. He just pretends to be one.

He plays one on TV

Eli @ 162

Loo Hoo @ 153

Senate passes stem cell bill.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/

Not veto-proof, but getting close.

Maybe if they’d take a page from BushCo and call it something like the Robin Bush Memorial Child Survival Opportunity Act….

any link for the yeas and nays?

A bad day for broadcasting indeed and I bet it get’s worse. Look for a huge PC war between MSNBC against CNN and FOX.

Hugh @ 175

Two Democrats Casey (D-PA) and Nelson (D-NE) voted against the stem cell bill.

I predicted Casey would be Lieberman Jr. Sigh.

Eli @ 151

Boston1775 @ 149

Eli,

I read Spocko’s stuff and decided to go after this using the Attorney General, the US Attorney (first to say no) and my local District Attorney.

I am saying that I am a victim. This man does not speak for me simply because I am white and live in the listening area.

I am also asking the ACLU and ADL to look into the broadcasts that called for the murder of people that he has described in callous, hateful terms.

Have you considered contacting spocko or Mike Stark? I bet they would be *more* than happy to give you some suggestions. Spocko’s strategy was to contact the corporate parent (who obviously didn’t care) and the sponsors (some of whom did, thus leading to KSFO’s panicky freakout).

I will contact them. I want you to know that I also included in my request to review his broadcasts: the Globe article which documented his call to kill Muslims. I also included the writings of a prosecutor who has documented his voluminous hate speech.

I will go back to the guys on the West Coast and get some advice directly. Fortunately, my requests for action predate this Imus thing.

TexasBetsy @ 160

Loo Hoo @ 153

Senate passes stem cell bill.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/

excellent!

Hi Betsy; nice to see you; your story about your sister and your life was stunning. – is Cassie doing her homework? Haven’t seen her in a while.

Helen in da house , erm Senate tommorow

marshen @ 178

A bad day for broadcasting indeed and I bet it get’s worse. Look for a huge PC war between MSNBC against CNN and FOX.

And that’s a war that MSNBC wins, IMO

TexasBetsy @
143

Bob Schacht @
138

Eli,
I must beg to differ. You offer this on Imus, of whom I have had quite enough, thank you, while I see NOTHING today on FDL lead stories today about what’s happening over in Sen. Feingold’s hearing on the Constitution. For some reason, my computer (both Realplayer and Windows Media Player) is objecting to the video streaming from the Senate Webcast site, so I haven’t been able to follow it at all. I keep coming back to FDL, hoping eagerly to find some of the same kind of helpful commentaries that were de rigeuer during the Libby trial, so please understand why I am less than satisfied when I come back only to find yet more again on Imus. Please!

Bob in HI

I was tired of the Imus story about 10 minutes after it started.

Same here. He makes my teeth hurt. How people can work up a lather about him is beyond me…its like getting mad at a crocodile for eating a human…jes’ doin’ what crocodiles do. And humans fire Imus. End of story, now on to something important like destroyed e-mails and permanent vacancy in War Czar position.

SnarKassandra (sp?) was here earlier, Helen.

Loo Hoo @ 153
Senate passes stem cell bill.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/
————
TexasBetsy @ 160
excellent!
————
Helen @ 181
Hi Betsy; nice to see you; your story about your sister and your life was stunning. – is Cassie doing her homework? Haven’t seen her in a while.

Sister?? What story? Yes, Cassie is working on homework. She’ll be back later.

Isn’t the RNC servers located in Tenn.? I had read in DKos a pertinent source to recover the e-mails; subpoena the NSA records! There is a trail! All bets are off on Rove,K 95% produced e-mails, guaranteed they were targeted first and foremost!

S.O.S. from MA @ 164

Phoenix Woman @ 74

… Congress already has Monica Goodling’s computer.

That is GREAT news. (I’d love to see a link, just to savor it…?) Could be the ballgame, especially if one more disk is found somewheres else with Cc’s of some of the same msgs. Logical congruence virtually proves a common origin.

I envy (and kinda pity) the techies to whom Congress will entrust this investigation. They’ll be walking into a white-hot technological and political crucible. I know this because when the Nixon WH was gobsmacked with our “Panel of Experts”’s findings on the 18.5-minute-gap Watergate tape, things got pretty dicey awfully fast.

All of us had been jointly chosen by mutual consent between the Special Prosecutor and the WH, and were thus presumed to be to the taste of both sides and the late Judge John Sirica.

But when our report showed the WH to be liars, their Chief Counsel, the late James St. Clair, got up in Court and said “Your Honor, it’s time for us to retain our own experts!” to which the leader of our team, the late Dick Bolt, drew his patrician frame up to its full six-foot-one and retorted: “But Your Honor, I thought WE were your experts!”

But St. Clair harrumphed in his Barrister-y way and insisted on his right to go with another bunch of techies, this one from the Stanford Research Institute — who ended up finding yet more ironclad proof of WH skullduggery with the evidence! So they were neatly hoist by their own petard. It was a beautiful thing to contemplate. They must have been SO pissed.

Godspeed to whomever does the scientific/engineering work in this crucial case.

I wrote some more about the WH email case and its similarity to the Watergate Tape case (which I played a bit part in) a couple days back… if you didn’t catch it then and if you’re interested, you can check http://tinyurl.com/2furqg (let it load, that was a long thread) and then posts 196 and 226. Enjoy :)

love this thanks

Boston1775 @ 180

I will contact them. I want you to know that I also included in my request to review his broadcasts: the Globe article which documented his call to kill Muslims. I also included the writings of a prosecutor who has documented his voluminous hate speech.

I will go back to the guys on the West Coast and get some advice directly. Fortunately, my requests for action predate this Imus thing.

Does the hate station have any big corporate parents, or a ClearChannel affiliation? That will probably make the experience a whole lot uglier and lawyerier.

The good news is, I bet spocko and Online Blog Integrity, and a bunch of other bloggers will be more than happy to help you publicize this. The spocko story became a crisis for KSFO when the blogosphere started swarming after ABC/Disney shut spocko’s blog down.

TexasBetsy @ 166

newspaperbrat @ 163

Waving good evening to TexasBetsy! What’s happening in the Lone Star state?

Our Governator Ahnold was in Washington today making a remarkable speech for a Republican – exhorting his committment to the environment with alternative fuel for our countless cars within the State. Hasn’t gotten much play in the press yet – as you know Imus is the MSM story of this happy day.

For anyone who missed Ahnold CSpan 1 covered it live and it will surely be repeated. I recommend it if for no other reason then to catch the questions from the besotted Georgetown University audience. :~)

Howdy Newspaperbrat! I understand you’ll be filling my mailbox later in the week?

Yep – our little post office had leaks and closed early (thats twice in two weeks) and of course we blame Bush – so the package is on its way with those wonderful UPS folks.

Hey, it made the papers…

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04…..ls.html?hp

newspaperbrat @ 169

Meanwhile I will hold on to my dream of a Gore/Edwards ticket.

yep yep yep yep

Finally, NYTimes picks up the e-mail news.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04…..ref=slogin

punaise @ 192

newspaperbrat @ 169

Meanwhile I will hold on to my dream of a Gore/Edwards ticket.

yep yep yep yep

Works for me.

I refuse to believe that those e-mails are “lost” — nothing is ever lost on computers. Unless someone physically removed hard drives and pounded them to dust, a good techie can get those e-mails back. That’s what I believe. Could someone out there with more expertise than I confirm this?

Link to stem cell senate vote here.

Deacon Blues @ 195

I refuse to believe that those e-mails are “lost” — nothing is ever lost on computers. Unless someone physically removed hard drives and pounded them to dust, a good techie can get those e-mails back. That’s what I believe. Could someone out there with more expertise than I confirm this?

I’m not a supertechie, but typically when a file is deleted, all that’s deleted is a pointer to the data. But as new data is written to the drive, it overwrites the deleted data, which is no longer preserved by that pointer indicating the file’s existence.

lolo @ 174

Loo Hoo @ 153

Senate passes stem cell bill.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/

YooHoo…..

LOLO and LOOHOO and YOO HOO and I say DOO BE DOO BE DOO

3558 troops have left the coalition of the willing to become the coalition of the dead.

Clusterfuck’s creepin up on the 4,000 dead mark- and he’s already passed the 4 year mark. Can’t remember how many 100s of billions he’s flushed down the cosmis toilet.

Sooner or later- someone’s gonna get pissed.

Helen @ 170

newspaperbrat @ 163

Waving good evening to TexasBetsy! What’s happening in the Lone Star state?

Our Governator Ahnold was in Washington today making a remarkable speech for a Republican – exhorting his committment to the environment with alternative fuel for our countless cars within the State. Hasn’t gotten much play in the press yet – as you know Imus is the MSM story of this happy day.

For anyone who missed Ahnold CSpan 1 covered it live and it will surely be repeated. I recommend it if for no other reason then to catch the questions from the besotted Georgetown University audience. :~)

Oh stop News – he is not a Republican. He just pretends to be one.

LOL! OK my wrong. May I call him an enlightened Borg?

The RushMan has already been fired once for a rascist comment- but he only lost one of his nine lives. Imus will probably end up down the same road.

Helen says
April 11th, 2007 at 7:28 pm

lolo @ 174

Loo Hoo @ 153

Senate passes stem cell bill.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/

YooHoo…..

LOLO and LOOHOO and YOO HOO and I say DOO BE DOO BE DOO

Yee-haw

Loo Hoo @ 153
Senate passes stem cell bill.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/
————
TexasBetsy @ 160
excellent!
————
Helen @ 181
Hi Betsy; nice to see you; your story about your sister and your life was stunning. – is Cassie doing her homework? Haven’t seen her in a while.
————
TexasBetsy @ 186
Sister?? What story? Yes, Cassie is working on homework. She’ll be back later.

You told us that Cassie’s mom was a drug user and you now care for Cassie’s brother, Cassie and your own son. Did I get that wrong?

zig alert

Evening Helen and lolo.

Bibbidy bobbedy Boo!

Eli @ 189

Boston1775 @ 180

I will contact them. I want you to know that I also included in my request to review his broadcasts: the Globe article which documented his call to kill Muslims. I also included the writings of a prosecutor who has documented his voluminous hate speech.

I will go back to the guys on the West Coast and get some advice directly. Fortunately, my requests for action predate this Imus thing.

Does the hate station have any big corporate parents, or a ClearChannel affiliation? That will probably make the experience a whole lot uglier and lawyerier.

The good news is, I bet spocko and Online Blog Integrity, and a bunch of other bloggers will be more than happy to help you publicize this. The spocko story became a crisis for KSFO when the blogosphere started swarming after ABC/Disney shut spocko’s blog down.

You know Eli, Monica’s computer is technically a bigger story than what I am talking about with you, but I know that this is a huge matter. It is a way of reforming the fourth branch.

Helen @
144

Bob Schacht @ 138

Eli,
I must beg to differ. You offer this on Imus, of whom I have had quite enough, thank you, while I see NOTHING today on FDL lead stories today about what’s happening over in Sen. Feingold’s hearing on the Constitution. For some reason, my computer (both Realplayer and Windows Media Player) is objecting to the video streaming from the Senate Webcast site, so I haven’t been able to follow it at all. I keep coming back to FDL, hoping eagerly to find some of the same kind of helpful commentaries that were de rigeuer during the Libby trial, so please understand why I am less than satisfied when I come back only to find yet more again on Imus. Please!

Bob in HI

You are wrong Bob – I was live-blogging it and no one was listening; so I gave up

Where? Who knew? If I’da known, I woulda been there. Sorry I missed you!

Bob in HI

Eli @ 197

I’m not a supertechie, but typically when a file is deleted, all that’s deleted is a pointer to the data. But as new data is written to the drive, it overwrites the deleted data, which is no longer preserved by that pointer indicating the file’s existence.

Also, it is possible to use specific software to securely erase files. Microsoft has a command-line utility that does this:
http://www.microsoft.com/techn…..elete.mspx

Oh, and Romo vs. Eli on opening day! :)

Helen says
April 11th, 2007 at 7:31 pm

TexasBetsy @ 186

Helen @ 181

Hi Betsy; nice to see you; your story about your sister and your life was stunning. – is Cassie doing her homework? Haven’t seen her in a while.

Sister?? What story? Yes, Cassie is working on homework. She’ll be back later.

You told us that Cassie’s mom was a drug user and you now care for Cassie’s brother, Cassie and your own son. Did I get that wrong?

—————————–

Yes, all true. But Cass & Andy are my brother’s children. Their mom is my sister-in-law.

To share what is listed over at AmericaBlog (the following is all quotation):

“A few of the slurs from Imus’ show back in 2000, courtesy of TomPaine.com (they raised the issue of Imus’ hate back in 2000):

A sample of the Imus team’s routine sport:

On the New York Knicks: “chest-bumping pimps, the New York Crips.”

On superstar Gloria Estefan: “this little Chihuahua-looking ‘ho.”

On serial gay-killer Andrew Cunannan: “Why are they bothering to catch this guy? He’s just whacking off freaks!”

On Senator Ben Nighthorse Campbell, a Native American: “The guy from F Troop.”

On CNN’s female anchors: “dyke-ie broads.”

On media critic Howard Kurtz: “boner-nosed, beanie-wearing Jew boy.”

“…the following about a black critic that he said in 2001:

“I wish I had known he was African American I could have included that in my attacks on him, but I attacked him as if he were a real person — ha ha.”

Eli, thanks very much for the post.

Rob Zuber @ 208

Also, it is possible to use specific software to securely erase files. Microsoft has a command-line utility that does this:
http://www.microsoft.com/techn…..elete.mspx

Does that software leave a distinctive trace? I would think it would have to, right?

TexasBetsy @ 202

Helen says
April 11th, 2007 at 7:28 pm

lolo @ 174

Loo Hoo @ 153

Senate passes stem cell bill.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/

YooHoo…..

LOLO and LOOHOO and YOO HOO and I say DOO BE DOO BE DOO

Yee-haw

here we go again…..

Bob Schacht @ 138

… I see NOTHING today on FDL lead stories today about what’s happening over in Sen. Feingold’s hearing on the Constitution. For some reason, my computer (both Realplayer and Windows Media Player) is objecting to the video streaming from the Senate Webcast site, so I haven’t been able to follow it at all. I keep coming back to FDL, hoping eagerly to find some of the same kind of helpful commentaries that were de rigeuer during the Libby trial …

Over in the realtime FDL Gabbly Chat, some of us had the RealPlayer stream playing and some of us didn’t; so those of us who did kinda liveblogged it for the others. We also added /snark to taste, like Emptywheel taught us so well from the Prettyman.

There’s still a bunch of us who hang about chatting in there during the USA late daylight hours, more-or-less.

When the Gonzo hearings begin and if FDL tries any realtime blog commentary, I’m betting that that will load down the FDL server with interested FirePups.

Since the FDL Gabbly server lives totally elsewhere on the ‘net (I dunno where), that should get some Gonzo biz as well, while easing the burden on FDL proper.

Warning — the FDL chat is more informal, far more fast-paced than here, typing speed and snark are at a premium. Crack, compared to weed here. :)

For future ref (nothing goin on now): http://gabbly.com/firedoglake.com

FYI.

Boston1775 @ 206

You know Eli, Monica’s computer is technically a bigger story than what I am talking about with you, but I know that this is a huge matter. It is a way of reforming the fourth branch.

To me, the media is a huge overarching story. As long as our media is corrupt, we will never have a level political playing field.

But in the short term, the WH deleting incriminating e-mails is certainly bigger.

Bob Schacht @ 207

Helen @
144

Bob Schacht @ 138

Eli,
I must beg to differ. You offer this on Imus, of whom I have had quite enough, thank you, while I see NOTHING today on FDL lead stories today about what’s happening over in Sen. Feingold’s hearing on the Constitution. For some reason, my computer (both Realplayer and Windows Media Player) is objecting to the video streaming from the Senate Webcast site, so I haven’t been able to follow it at all. I keep coming back to FDL, hoping eagerly to find some of the same kind of helpful commentaries that were de rigeuer during the Libby trial, so please understand why I am less than satisfied when I come back only to find yet more again on Imus. Please!

Bob in HI

You are wrong Bob – I was live-blogging it and no one was listening; so I gave up

Where? Who knew? If I’da known, I woulda been there. Sorry I missed you!

Bob in HI

i wuz right here – never fear I will so be here for Gonzo

The stem bill issue is more complicated.

Harry Reid’s (D-NV) Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2007 (S.5) passed 63-34.

Norm Coleman’s (R-MN) HOPE bill (S.30) also passed 70-28.

Bush has promised to veto the first and sign the second. Coleman’s bill is supposed to derive stem lines from embryos that are naturally dead. No one knows what that means.

Imus to Sharpton: “we’re a comedy show. I’m not a journalist like Tim Russert.”

now that is funny. sadly.

Hugh @ 217

The stem bill issue is more complicated.

Harry Reid’s (D-NV) Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2007 (S.5) passed 63-34.

Norm Coleman’s (R-MN) HOPE bill (S.30) also passed 70-28.

Bush has promised to veto the first and sign the second. Coleman’s bill is supposed to derive stem lines from embryos that are naturally dead. No one knows what that means.

Perhaps miscarriages?

Rob Zuber @ 81

Doesn’t Congress control the FCC? It was created by Congress.

The really bad news is that Congress does NOT control the FCC. It was set up under the 1934 Telecom Act (the original one). The Preznit appoints FCC members.

In recent years, stuffed by Presidential appointments, it has decided that “phone” is now an “information service.”

Originally phone traveled in waves over wires.
Now that it’s digitized, the telecoms went to the courts and FCC to wail and whine that because it is now digitized, it is an “information service.”

The Bush-appointees on the FCC ruled in favor of the telecoms.

Which is why Net Neutrality is a huge issue — if phone were still ‘phone’, it would be protected as a Common Carrier and you’d automatically have Net Neutrailty.

————-
Phone started as an analog technology (ie., it traveled in sound waves across wires).
Now it’s digitized (ie., it travels as electrical pulses). Electrical pulses can be mixed-and-mashed-up into sound, video, images… and the telecoms call it ‘information services’.

Because that means they can charge more.
Cable is also a strong proponent of the “its’s an Information Service” meme, because they want in on the Digital Gold Mine.

What neither of those callous industries fess up to is the fact that without SOFTWARE, you couldn’t make sense of a single electrical pulse. The innovation is in the software layer; the telecoms want to sit back and collect higher tolls on all the cool stuff that the software folks develop.

As an ‘information service’ it has no Common Carrier protections, and Congress has less oversight.

And all those emails on the RNC servers… should have been protected under the old Common Carrier telecom regs. Those old regs controlled what traveled over phone lines, and — more recently — over satellites, cable, and cell transmissions.

The Republican Gambinos can still be prosecuted under other laws, however — probably criminal conspiracy laws.

Congress does not control the FCC. The President makes appointments, and the Bush appointments are insidious.

Paul in LA @ 210

To share what is listed over at AmericaBlog (the following is all quotation):

“A few of the slurs from Imus’ show back in 2000, courtesy of TomPaine.com (they raised the issue of Imus’ hate back in 2000):

A sample of the Imus team’s routine sport:

On the New York Knicks: “chest-bumping pimps, the New York Crips.”

On superstar Gloria Estefan: “this little Chihuahua-looking ‘ho.”

On serial gay-killer Andrew Cunannan: “Why are they bothering to catch this guy? He’s just whacking off freaks!”

On Senator Ben Nighthorse Campbell, a Native American: “The guy from F Troop.”

On CNN’s female anchors: “dyke-ie broads.”

On media critic Howard Kurtz: “boner-nosed, beanie-wearing Jew boy.”

“…the following about a black critic that he said in 2001:

“I wish I had known he was African American I could have included that in my attacks on him, but I attacked him as if he were a real person — ha ha.”

That is about the creepiest list of quotes I could ever imagine – what a louse – even worse than I could have imagined. At least the Decider in Chief didn’t appoint him head of the FCC. aghhhhh!

Hugh @ 217

Coleman’s bill is supposed to derive stem lines from embryos that are naturally dead. No one knows what that means.

It means embryos that have stopped growing or developing, but I’m not entirely sure how those come about…

Helen @
152

[zig snip]

Thank you – if you (or anyone) had said – keep going I would have. And I will be there on Tuesday with Gonzo. I have cleared my schedule. My staff thinks I am working hard!!

Where will we be able to find your blog?

Bob in HI

Anderson Cooper is frying Jesse Jackson for inserting himself in the Duke LaCrosse case. Good

BobbyG @
132

Leisler NYC @ 116

…The point I made in the shop discussion was that I’d like to see Imus & his rich white posse who take such pleasure in their ghetto talk — well, let’s see them walk the walk, come here and meet our 6′8″ 300 lb black employee, let’s see them come here, face to face, unprotected by their wealth, their doormen, their police, come here & talk that ghetto talk. Somehow ain’t gonna happen.

I had that same thought. I’d like to see Imus show up at my gym (24 Hr Fitness Sport at Sahara & Buffalo, Vegas) on Saturday mornings, when it’s mostly 6′4″ and taller and black on the court — including some big Div I and pro chick players with tattoos and “nappy” hair. Let him rap on about “jigaboos” and “nappy-headed hos” tryin’ to show his homie Cred.

Check your policy limits, co-pays, and deductibles first, Don Ho. Y’feel me, yo?
.

I think there’s the making of a great video — Don, backed up by his posse, Oliphant, Fineman, going to the mean streets of Bed Stuy to call out the Rutgers B-ball women.

Yeah, let’s see you boyz walk da walk.

Eli @ 212

Does that software leave a distinctive trace? I would think it would have to, right?

Yeah, I guess it might. But Rove would make up some dumb excuse and the media would report that excuse as fact. :)

Naturally dead stem cells. You can’t make up this fuckery.

Rob Zuber @ 226

Eli @ 212

Does that software leave a distinctive trace? I would think it would have to, right?

Yeah, I guess it might. But Rove would make up some dumb excuse and the media would report that excuse as fact. :)

My recollection is that most secure erase utilities write a pattern of either continuous or alternating ones and zeroes. Which would be pretty obvious. Maybe they could go over it with a randomizer, or load an innocuous disc image and delete that (or maybe just leave the innocuous disc image in place).

rwcole @ 201

The RushMan has already been fired once for a rascist comment- but he only lost one of his nine lives. Imus will probably end up down the same road.

Imus, so far, has lost his teevee gig. I think he will retain his talk radio job or a similar gig on another radio network.

IMHO, he’s badly wounded, but unfortunately, Imus will survive on the radio and get a spike in radio listeners. As a lefty, I do not like Imus’ program. He is a Republican and like all Republicans, he works for his corporate masters against the common citizen.

TexasBetsy @ 209

Helen says
April 11th, 2007 at 7:31 pm

TexasBetsy @ 186

Helen @ 181

Hi Betsy; nice to see you; your story about your sister and your life was stunning. – is Cassie doing her homework? Haven’t seen her in a while.

Sister?? What story? Yes, Cassie is working on homework. She’ll be back later.

You told us that Cassie’s mom was a drug user and you now care for Cassie’s brother, Cassie and your own son. Did I get that wrong?

—————————–

Yes, all true. But Cass & Andy are my brother’s children. Their mom is my sister-in-law.

Okay – sorry about mixing that up. This weekend I am gonna “babysit” for my nephew (17 yrs old) and my neice (13 yrs old) and my plan is to make sure they do not blow up the house. Wish me luck!!

readerOfTeaLeaves @ 220

Congress does not control the FCC. The President makes appointments, and the Bush appointments are insidious.

Sure, but Congress ultimately controls it, no? It can impeach the commissioners I’d assume or threaten to defund it.

I’m thinking hardball here, not your standard-issue namby-pamby Democratic Party stuff. )

Eli @ 222

Hugh @ 217

Coleman’s bill is supposed to derive stem lines from embryos that are naturally dead. No one knows what that means.

It means embryos that have stopped growing or developing, but I’m not entirely sure how those come about…

Science not being their strong suit, it will be amazing if they can come up with a coherent restriction. Hmmm. Naturally dead, huh? Would they be brain dead if they hadnt yet grown a brain?

Oh well, here in California we are going right ahead with it…if people can quit fighting over the money.

Eli @ 215

…

But in the short term, the WH deleting incriminating e-mails is certainly bigger.

it’s HUGE!

Whoopsie – I have a big old rectangular color block hiding Eli’s comment at 228 – anyone else have this nuisance?

Helen @ 230

TexasBetsy @ 209

Helen says
April 11th, 2007 at 7:31 pm

TexasBetsy @ 186

Helen @ 181

Hi Betsy; nice to see you; your story about your sister and your life was stunning. – is Cassie doing her homework? Haven’t seen her in a while.

Sister?? What story? Yes, Cassie is working on homework. She’ll be back later.

You told us that Cassie’s mom was a drug user and you now care for Cassie’s brother, Cassie and your own son. Did I get that wrong?

—————————–

Yes, all true. But Cass & Andy are my brother’s children. Their mom is my sister-in-law.

Okay – sorry about mixing that up. This weekend I am gonna “babysit” for my nephew (17 yrs old) and my neice (13 yrs old) and my plan is to make sure they do not blow up the house. Wish me luck!!

Good luck! lol

newspaperbrat @ 234

Whoopsie – I have a big old rectangular color block hiding Eli’s comment at 228 – anyone else have this nuisance?

I did, even after refresh.

Bob Schacht @ 223

Helen @
152

[zig snip]

Thank you – if you (or anyone) had said – keep going I would have. And I will be there on Tuesday with Gonzo. I have cleared my schedule. My staff thinks I am working hard!!

Where will we be able to find your blog?

Bob in HI

I’ll be right here at firedoglake. Not really a blog – but writing comments

Eureka Springs @
196

Link to stem cell senate vote here.

Not voting:

Dodd (D-CT)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Johnson (D-SD)

Is there any word on Johnson’s health?

Eli @ 215

To me, the media is a huge overarching story. As long as our media is corrupt, we will never have a level political playing field.

Eli,

I’m 60 and don’t remember a time when the media wasn’t corrupt. Maybe you mean less corrupt, or less contemptable?

eli.. yes, spocko must be smiling right about now, as are all the rest of us bay area folks who just can’t stomach the ksfo mentality..

Ed*ard Teller @ 239

I’m 60 and don’t remember a time when the media wasn’t corrupt. Maybe you mean less corrupt, or less contemptable?

How about less overtly propagandist?

newspaperbrat @ 111

Larry King just said Bill Clinton will be his guest tomorrow evening – hope and trust he asks bubba about Imus – who btw – banned both Clinton’s from his show – or so I read earlier today someone on da tubes.

ReElect President Albert Gore 2008! Accept no substitutes – can you imagine this fine man having staff illegally delete emails and lie under oath? Not a chance!

Can you imagine him having sex with an intern? No, not Bubba…

jayt @ 238

Eureka Springs @
196

Link to stem cell senate vote here.

Not voting:

Dodd (D-CT)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Johnson (D-SD)

Is there any word on Johnson’s health?

Did Dodd abstain from voting because he is running for President and desires to remain neutral?

TexasBetsy @ 194

punaise @ 192

newspaperbrat @ 169

Meanwhile I will hold on to my dream of a Gore/Edwards ticket.

yep yep yep yep

Works for me.

That’s my dream, too.

Good night all. Need some sleep.

Helen @ 216

[zig snip]

Where? Who knew? If I’da known, I woulda been there. Sorry I missed you!

Bob in HI

i wuz right here – never fear I will so be here for Gonzo

Oh– you mean in the comments of whatever thread is up at the time?

Bob in HI

Gore/Not-Lieberman-or-Clinton.

TexasBetsy @ 235

Helen @ 230

TexasBetsy @ 209

Helen says
April 11th, 2007 at 7:31 pm

TexasBetsy @ 186

Helen @ 181

Hi Betsy; nice to see you; your story about your sister and your life was stunning. – is Cassie doing her homework? Haven’t seen her in a while.

Sister?? What story? Yes, Cassie is working on homework. She’ll be back later.

You told us that Cassie’s mom was a drug user and you now care for Cassie’s brother, Cassie and your own son. Did I get that wrong?

—————————–

Yes, all true. But Cass & Andy are my brother’s children. Their mom is my sister-in-law.

Okay – sorry about mixing that up. This weekend I am gonna “babysit” for my nephew (17 yrs old) and my neice (13 yrs old) and my plan is to make sure they do not blow up the house. Wish me luck!!

Good luck! lol

But their mom is the addict? right?

I can’t disagree with you more, Eli. Comparing Imus to Coulter does nothing but impair your credibility and detract from your argument.

I may be ignorant about Imus as I never watch/listen to him and so can’t vouch for his attitude or past history. But there is a huge distinction between Imus and Coulter. Imus is a comedian, maybe a bad one, but a comedian nonetheless. To take him too seriously or classify him with the likes of Michelle Malkin and Glenn Beck is a gross over reaction.

What Imus said was deplorable. He said it was a mistake. Do you know differently? Of course not. He’s received a ton of flak for it and has apologized so often I can’t stand to hear him do it again.

As a parent you learn to pick your fights. If you don’t pick wisely you could be fighting all the time and never make your point. That is the risk that you and those of your view point are running with Imus. And from the media I’m familiar with nobody is rushing to Imus’ defense. IMHO it’s time to let it go and move on.

Eureka Springs @ 196

Link to stem cell senate vote here.

Thanks — printed out vote tallies for both. Looking for flip-likely possibilities.

TexasBetsy @ 209

Helen says
April 11th, 2007 at 7:31 pm

TexasBetsy @ 186

Helen @ 181

Hi Betsy; nice to see you; your story about your sister and your life was stunning. – is Cassie doing her homework? Haven’t seen her in a while.

Sister?? What story? Yes, Cassie is working on homework. She’ll be back later.

You told us that Cassie’s mom was a drug user and you now care for Cassie’s brother, Cassie and your own son. Did I get that wrong?

—————————–

Yes, all true. But Cass & Andy are my brother’s children. Their mom is my sister-in-law.

Okay – sorry about mixing that up. This weekend I am gonna “babysit” for my nephew (17 yrs old) and my neice (13 yrs old) and my plan is to make sure they do not blow up the house. Wish me luck!!

Good luck! lol

But their mom is the addict? right?

Yeah, my mom is an addict and has a mentall illness and is in jail on drug charges.

Rob Zuber and Eli – It is my understanding that the relative time of overwrite or deletion can also be determined in most every case. Assuming that any deletion was effected after the US Atty issue started, they have an obstruction problem pure and simple; it does not require the info actually be retrieved.

Please be kind to the margins and do not use the quote this comment button if the comment already has comments quoted within it.

Thank you.

newspaperbrat @
234

Whoopsie – I have a big old rectangular color block hiding Eli’s comment at 228 – anyone else have this nuisance?

I get that sometimes, too, but not now. Do you use a mac? I’ve never figured out what it is.

The block disappeared though hovering up thread on my screen. Miss Suzanne are you in da house yet? Crimminity I hope I didn’t inadvertently mess up da tubes visiting with our new friend BetsyTexas.

Ed*ard Teller – my late newspaper reporter Daddy (1902-2000) attributed the coopting of the media to the early 1950’s when TV grew so popular and the birth of conglomeration (is that really a word?) between print and broadcast media, coinciding within a decade of Nixon’s loss to Kennedy when their first debate was broadcast.

Daddy wasn’t a media historian but a very gifted observer as good newspaper reporter are supposed to be.

Prairie Sunshine @ 249

Eureka Springs @ 196

Link to stem cell senate vote here.

Thanks — printed out vote tallies for both. Looking for flip-likely possibilities.

When do these bills get to the monkey’s desk?

bmaz @ 250

Rob Zuber and Eli – It is my understanding that the relative time of overwrite or deletion can also be determined in most every case. Assuming that any deletion was effected after the US Atty issue started, they have an obstruction problem pure and simple; it does not require the info actually be retrieved.

Oh, that *would* be interesting. Still, getting busted for the coverup is nowhere near as bad as getting busted for the crime itself.

Imus: King of the Flea Market.

Man have I got a load of regret to sell you…

Bob Schacht @ 138
Eli,
I see NOTHING today on FDL lead stories today about what’s happening over in Sen. Feingold’s hearing on the Constitution. For some reason, my computer (both Realplayer and Windows Media Player) is objecting to the video streaming from the Senate Webcast site, so I haven’t been able to follow it at all. I keep coming back to FDL
Bob in HI

Bob, that Senate site was hard for me as well, and I’m a streaming video maven.

You mentioned that you weren’t sure about having ALL the codecs on your computer.

First, ‘codec’ simply means “compress/decompress”, from which the word CODEC was derived. So it’s not mumbo jumbo, just shorthand. Think of it a bit like stuffing a sleeping bag — some you can squish really small; others are more bulky. But the sleeping bag needs the correct sized ‘bag’ into which it is stuffed.

You may have an outdated codec that could be causing a problem in your browser…Different codecs have different settings, so you may have a conflict on your machine.

You may need to go to the Real Media website and download a newer version of the software. Or, if you are using an older version of a web browser, I’d recommend getting a more recent version of your browser.

I don’t know what browser you are using, but you may need to reload the Real Media player into your computer’s system — if you have an older version, it may not be streaming correctly.

That info on Feingold’s Hearing was superb — articulate, informative witnesses with very interesting info.

Software problems can be aggravating, but I’m sure you’ll be able to sort it out. Then, you can be ready for Gonzo on the 17th ;-)))))

Bob Schacht @ 245

Helen @ 216

[zig snip]

Where? Who knew? If I’da known, I woulda been there. Sorry I missed you!

Bob in HI

i wuz right here – never fear I will so be here for Gonzo

Oh– you mean in the comments of whatever thread is up at the time?

Bob in HI

Bob – I mean when Gonzo takes the fifth oh yes -I will be here. Tune in; it’ll be a BLAST

Quite the string, this. It’s two, Two, TWO-Topics-in-ONE! (and a half more to boot) :)

One definition of embryonic death is embryos prepared for in vitro fertilization that at day 5 are hypocellular and uncompacted.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.co…..wsid=44486

Of course, I wonder if these cell can’t progress to more complicated structures how useful they will be in research.

The tech wizs backstage looked and could not see a source for any blob.

Mommybrain @ 253

newspaperbrat @
234

Whoopsie – I have a big old rectangular color block hiding Eli’s comment at 228 – anyone else have this nuisance?

I get that sometimes, too, but not now. Do you use a mac? I’ve never figured out what it is.

Yep, a mini Mac.

Helen at 152; Bob may be wrong about no one blogging the Feingold hearings, but his point remains: Stop beating the dead Imus horse!

Suzanne @ 262

The tech wizs backstage looked and could not see a source for any blob.

Not 2 worry Suzanne — it’s gotta be a browser-resident issue. Some sort of mal-interaction between drivers addressing blocs of screen real estate. Usually can be worked around with window-twiddles, locally.

Eli@256 – I agree; but you have to pierce the shell to get the nut. One issue with going after them criminally is the “no crime” canard. This IS a crime; open up the nut and let the other filth spill out.

rwcole @
199

3558 troops have left the coalition of the willing to become the coalition of the dead.

Clusterfuck’s creepin up on the 4,000 dead mark- and he’s already passed the 4 year mark. Can’t remember how many 100s of billions he’s flushed down the cosmis toilet.

Sooner or later- someone’s gonna get pissed.

You haven’t read Lee Iacocca lately….

When the crusty old capitalist kingpins are getting spitting mad, you know the clock is running out on your lame game.

Chimpy’s whole crony crew has begun to back towards the door.

-GSD

Still haven’t seen a link to any story saying that Congress has physical possession of Goodling’s computer?

Thanks, SOSinMA. I thought it was a Mac issue but it doesn’t hurt to have our wonderful tech guys take a look (tipping the hat to the fine crew backstage that keeps the Lake up and running).

What time does LATE NIGHT start?

A quick hello before we leave for the hospital. April 12, which it is here already, is the anniversary of Gagarin’s historic zoom into space.

Such is the power of propaganda that I was an adult before I realized John Glenn wasn’t the first to orbit the earth.

newspaperbrat @
264

Mommybrain @ 253

newspaperbrat @
234

Whoopsie – I have a big old rectangular color block hiding Eli’s comment at 228 – anyone else have this nuisance?

I get that sometimes, too, but not now. Do you use a mac? I’ve never figured out what it is.

Yep, a mini Mac.

Our laptop is a mac too !

Re #269 — Suzanne, I join you in hat-tippitude. Some truly awesome techies U got there. THANKS.

bmaz @ 265

Eli@256 – I agree; but you have to pierce the shell to get the nut. One issue with going after them criminally is the “no crime” canard. This IS a crime; open up the nut and let the other filth spill out.

Well, we get what we get. I never believed that the White House would ever let incriminating e-mails see the light of day as long as they have a delete button.

University of Florida’s Education dept. named after Bush.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04…..ref=slogin

After he was not awarded an Honorary degree.

S.O.S. from MA @
274

Re #269 — Suzanne, I join you in hat-tippitude. Some truly awesome techies U got there. THANKS.

Everything here seems really cool!

Hey Bob – can’t break the margins. Trust me – you will be soooo in love with me on Tuesday – you’ll be sayin’ more more more. You know – about the blog

Hugh @ 261

One definition of embryonic death is embryos prepared for in vitro fertilization that at day 5 are hypocellular and uncompacted.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.co…..wsid=44486

Of course, I wonder if these cell can’t progress to more complicated structures how useful they will be in research.

The churches should have been campaigning against fertility clinics with equal fervor. Apparently, many churchgoers utlilize fertility clinics. The hypocrisy is astounding.

Of course, the MSM never explained the phenomenon that fertility clinics potentially destroy more human embryos than abortion clinics. How long do they keep frozen embryos before they throw them out – freezer burned? Anybody keeping track?

egregious @ 272

A quick hello before we leave for the hospital. April 12, which it is here already, is the anniversary of Gagarin’s historic zoom into space.

Such is the power of propaganda that I was an adult before I realized John Glenn wasn’t the first to orbit the earth.

Hi Eg.

(waving to eg)

Snarkassandra, did you see today’s apology? The apologizer is out for the evening.

Bobo Brooks now up on TimesSelect. Looks likes he’s trying to be all contrarian and get aboard the McCain Train.

Now the administration has belatedly adopted his recommendations, and he is in the midst of a presidential campaign. In some ways, this campaign is like the one he ran eight years ago. There have been reports of a bloated staff, but in fact the same people who were around him then are around him now: Mark Salter, John Weaver, Rick Davis and a rotating crew of former P.O.W.’s like Orson Swindle who are his conscience and his boon companions.

McCain still has the same likes and dislikes, the same romantic interest in history books and novels, and the same tendency to tell stories from Hanoi Hilton days in a matter-of-fact style you and I might use for a college anecdote.

Snip.

This time McCain has been gradually sliding in the polls, and he has responded not by panicking or by changing, but by surrendering himself to the fates. He’s had a wonderful life, he feels, and if he is not president, it will be no tragedy. At first I thought he was making pre-emptive excuses for a possible defeat, but after observing him closely I concluded this is a fatalism that Navy fliers must often adopt as they go into combat.

And there’s a stubbornness to him now, too, which was not evident on the Straight Talk Express. The atmosphere is much harsher toward him, and you can see the hardness he must have used to resist his Vietnamese jailers.

Snip.

But in the long run, his embrace of Iraq may not hurt him as much as now appears. In 10 months, this election won’t be about the surge, it will be about the hydra-headed crisis roiling the Middle East. The candidate who is the most substantive, most mature and most consistent will begin to look more attractive and more necessary.

Ah, drink deep of the KoolAid, Bobo. Drink deep.

Loo Hoo @ 282

Snarkassandra, did you see today’s apology? The apologizer is out for the evening.

Yeah I did. Thanks

Loo Hoo @ 275

University of Florida’s Education dept. named after Bush. …

Great. Next we’ll see the George W. Bush Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton.

Now if it could be the George W. Bush Memorial … I might could be a tad more interestibloid.

Loo Hoo @ 279

egregious @ 272

A quick hello before we leave for the hospital. April 12, which it is here already, is the anniversary of Gagarin’s historic zoom into space.

Such is the power of propaganda that I was an adult before I realized John Glenn wasn’t the first to orbit the earth.

Hi Eg.

Hope everything is going ok for you. lolo

S.O.S. from MA @ 269

Still haven’t seen a link to any story saying that Congress has physical possession of Goodling’s computer?

Yes – that was my question a million (well maybe not) threads ago.

TRex must have a doozie coming up.

Helen @ 286

S.O.S. from MA @ 269

Still haven’t seen a link to any story saying that Congress has physical possession of Goodling’s computer?

Yes – that was my question a million (well maybe not) threads ago.

Good on you for asking. I so want it to be true…?

S.O.S. from MA @ 289

Helen @ 286

S.O.S. from MA @ 269

Still haven’t seen a link to any story saying that Congress has physical possession of Goodling’s computer?

Yes – that was my question a million (well maybe not) threads ago.

Good on you for asking. I so want it to be true…?

Must be, Phoenix Woman said so!

Great. Next we’ll see the George W. Bush Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton.

Great. Next we’ll see the George W. Bush Psychotic Institute of Cognitive Dissonance at Cedar Vista.
Fixed the typo for ya.

O/T and sad news. Vonnegut dead at 84.

Loo Hoo @ 288

TRex must have a doozie coming up.

He told us it’s about Malkin (very early this morning)

Compressed URL of NY Times article, title “Bush Advisers’ Approach on E-Mail Draws Fire” — http://tinyurl.com/ytg8ge

mrsmarks:
Bobo Brooks now up on TimesSelect. Looks likes he’s trying to be all contrarian and get aboard the McCain Train.

Driftglass is going to tear Bobo a new Sugar Glider over this one.

I don’t know how Bobo can look at himself in the mirror.

mrsmarks #282,

I think he’s injecting. That’s quite a pile of horse high manure even for Bobo.

At first I thought he was making pre-emptive excuses for a possible defeat, but after observing him closely I concluded this is a fatalism that Navy fliers must often adopt as they go into combat.

Puh-leeze. This sounds like a talkover during a really bad war movie.

Brooks is also seen doing sometime in the indefinite future he will be proved right. But as they say, “In the long run,” we’re all dead.

mrsmarks @ 290

O/T and sad news. Vonnegut dead at 84.

Crap. Crapcrapcrapcrapcrap.

Or, alternatively…

So it goes.

Google doesnt produce anything about Monica G’s computer.

Helen @ 293

Loo Hoo @ 288

TRex must have a doozie coming up.

He told us it’s about Malkin (very early this morning)

He’s probably giving his lawyer a look see. Just think, they’ll be watching. I sure hope they join in!

Hugh @ 296

mrsmarks #282,

I think he’s injecting. That’s quite a pile of horse high manure even for Bobo.

At first I thought he was making pre-emptive excuses for a possible defeat, but after observing him closely I concluded this is a fatalism that Navy fliers must often adopt as they go into combat.

Puh-leeze. This sounds like a talkover during a really bad war movie.

Brooks is also seen doing sometime in the indefinite future he will be proved right. But as they say, “In the long run,” we’re all dead.

Who are you talking about?

McGuirk, Imus’ chief goader has an explanations. He’s practically black himself:

“The bottom line is, I’m not a bigot,” he said in 2000, before adding that he had “lived amongst blacks all my life,” having grown up in the James Monroe Houses in the South Bronx. Mr. McGuirk also said that the co-op in Long Beach, N.Y., where he later lived had a directory in the lobby that “read like Schindler’s list, for crying out loud.”

Mr. McGuirk, did you use the N-word with your neighbors?

Didn’t think so.

-GSD

tbsa @ 290

… Fixed the typo for ya.

I stand in your debt, tbsa… ROTFLOL!! :)

mrsmarks @ 292

O/T and sad news. Vonnegut dead at 84.

Aw, shit.

-GSD

Eli @ 296

mrsmarks @ 290

O/T and sad news. Vonnegut dead at 84.

Crap. Crapcrapcrapcrapcrap.

Or, alternatively…

So it goes.

Those last three words are a smile and the best tribute ever.

What is wonderful about TRex’s posts are we never know what they will be. He may say MMkkk but it could be pens or kittens or the scandal of the hour.

mrsmarks @ 290

O/T and sad news. Vonnegut dead at 84.

Hi Ho.

GSD @ 299

McGuirk, Imus’ chief goader has an explanations. He’s practically black himself:

“The bottom line is, I’m not a bigot,” he said in 2000, before adding that he had “lived amongst blacks all my life,” having grown up in the James Monroe Houses in the South Bronx. Mr. McGuirk also said that the co-op in Long Beach, N.Y., where he later lived had a directory in the lobby that “read like Schindler’s list, for crying out loud.”

Mr. McGuirk, did you use the N-word with your neighbors?

Didn’t think so.

-GSD

I’m not a bigot! I had *tons* of Jew neighbors!

SnarKassandra: “Bobo” is NYT columnist David Brooks, who has apparently written a love-letter column about McCain’s candidacy…

mrsmarks @ 291

O/T and sad news. Vonnegut dead at 84.

Thanks for the news. I loved that guy. I will miss him. I keep a picture of him on the wall of my office. He was one of my heroes. He’s in heaven now.

newspaperbrat @
234

Whoopsie – I have a big old rectangular color block hiding Eli’s comment at 228 – anyone else have this nuisance?

Apple menu–> System Preferences:
Date & Time:
click the Clock tab:
click View in: Menu Bar
click View as: Digital.
That’s it.

CD @ 308

SnarKassandra: “Bobo” is NYT columnist David Brooks, who has apparently written a love-letter column about McCain’s candidacy…

thanks

I want a zed. Whatever zed means.

mrsmarks @ 282

Bobo Brooks now up on TimesSelect. Looks likes he’s trying to be all contrarian and get aboard the McCain Train.

Now the administration has belatedly adopted his recommendations, and he is in the midst of a presidential campaign. In some ways, this campaign is like the one he ran eight years ago. There have been reports of a bloated staff, but in fact the same people who were around him then are around him now: Mark Salter, John Weaver, Rick Davis and a rotating crew of former P.O.W.’s like Orson Swindle who are his conscience and his boon companions.

McCain still has the same likes and dislikes, the same romantic interest in history books and novels, and the same tendency to tell stories from Hanoi Hilton days in a matter-of-fact style you and I might use for a college anecdote.

Snip.

This time McCain has been gradually sliding in the polls, and he has responded not by panicking or by changing, but by surrendering himself to the fates. He’s had a wonderful life, he feels, and if he is not president, it will be no tragedy. At first I thought he was making pre-emptive excuses for a possible defeat, but after observing him closely I concluded this is a fatalism that Navy fliers must often adopt as they go into combat.

And there’s a stubbornness to him now, too, which was not evident on the Straight Talk Express. The atmosphere is much harsher toward him, and you can see the hardness he must have used to resist his Vietnamese jailers.

Snip.

But in the long run, his embrace of Iraq may not hurt him as much as now appears. In 10 months, this election won’t be about the surge, it will be about the hydra-headed crisis roiling the Middle East. The candidate who is the most substantive, most mature and most consistent will begin to look more attractive and more necessary.

Ah, drink deep of the KoolAid, Bobo. Drink deep.

Indeed. Somehow, of all the repub freak parade president wannabes, McCain stands out as the mirror mirror on the wall, who’s the despicablest one of all, winner. Perhaps because he’s the most blatant hypocrite. Perhaps because he knows better. Perhaps because he fooled so many people into thinking he WAS better. Whatever it is, the “stroll through Baghdad” did me in. He’s even worse for my blood pressure than Cheney.

GSD @ 303

mrsmarks @ 292

O/T and sad news. Vonnegut dead at 84.

Aw, shit.

-GSD

Me too – but I am new here. Which of you can take his place? I am not kidding. We need to be front and center.

SnarKassandra (who was Cassie) @ 299

Who are you talking about?

David Brooks aka Bobo or Babbling Brooks, columnist at the New York Times and commentator on Fridays on the NewsHour in Jim Lehrer. He’s an idiot airhead who is a genius at working in White House talking points into his patter.

Interesting post on TP:

West Point grads exiting at high rate.

“Recent graduates of the US Military Academy at West Point are choosing to leave active duty at the highest rate in more than three decades, a sign to many military specialists that repeated tours in Iraq are prematurely driving out some of the Army’s top young officers.” More than 54 percent of 2000 graduates and nearly 46 percent of 2001 grads have already left the service following their required five years.

Muzzy @
218

Imus to Sharpton: “we’re a comedy show. I’m not a journalist like Tim Russert.”

now that is funny. sadly.

Imus thinks Russert’s a journalist? Oh well. Doesn’t really matter what Imus thinks anymore.

I won’t believe Vonnegut’s dead until he comes and tells me personally.

We were just talking about him yesterday wrt a Vonnegutian moment: once I signed for my own international Fedex package. Sent the package from the U.S., left for Russia a couple days later, went to the hospital, and opened the office door to see the Fedex guy with: my package.

My Russian colleagues had been permitted to read Vonnegut under Soviet times. Why? I asked, he is so subversive. Yes they explained, but he was viewed as anti-American. Somebody slipped that one by the censors.

And so it goes.

OT-
Somebody give Halle Barry a sandwich.

I adored Kurt Vonnegut. We needs us more of him, and Molly Ivins, and Ann Richards, and Hunter Thompson, and…

This is what growing old is like. Your heroes die, and all you’re left with is you, trying to remember and carry on.

mrsmarks at 282 quoted Brooks saying

This time McCain has been gradually sliding in the polls, and he has responded not by panicking or by changing, but by surrendering himself to the fates. He’s had a wonderful life, he feels, and if he is not president, it will be no tragedy.

No, the tragedy would be if McCain were President.

egregious @ 316

I won’t believe Vonnegut’s dead until he comes and tells me personally.

Oh man, that is beautiful!

TRex is dancing upstairs

Leisler NYC @ 116

What’s so stunning about the Imus debacle is how out of touch so many ivy league, “liberal” pundits are — to watch Oliphant on the PBS Newshour defending Imus, to see so many others stand up for Imus, amazing.

I work for an elevator maintenance & repair company in NYC — think the bluest of blue collar professions, mainly Irish & Italian, those deeply racist so-called Reagan Democrats who fled the city for Long Island. And, believe me, the kind of crap Imus spews does not happen in our workplace, not because there are any rules against it, just that it’s not done. Sure, the guys will pass racist comments out in the street, with their helper or another (white) guy they can trust, but in the common space of the shop, never.

This change has happened with no social engineering from the good so-called liberals like Fineman or Oliphant who sneer at the racist blue collar types. It’s a demographic change, a change in the makeup of the society that has passed these pundit clowns by.

The point I made in the shop discussion was that I’d like to see Imus & his rich white posse who take such pleasure in their ghetto talk — well, let’s see them walk the walk, come here and meet our 6′8″ 300 lb black employee, let’s see them come here, face to face, unprotected by their wealth, their doormen, their police, come here & talk that ghetto talk. Somehow ain’t gonna happen.

That’s what makes this feel really different, and important. The good guys won something today. I hope it resonates.

hackworth @ 308

He’s in heaven now.

Or Tralfamadoran air space, whichever comes first….

Very short TRex up

http://www.firedoglake.com/200…../#comments

egregious @ 318

I won’t believe Vonnegut’s dead until he comes and tells me personally.

We were just talking about him yesterday wrt a Vonnegutian moment: once I signed for my own international Fedex package. Sent the package from the U.S., left for Russia a couple days later, went to the hospital, and opened the office door to see the Fedex guy with: my package.

My Russian colleagues had been permitted to read Vonnegut under Soviet times. Why? I asked, he is so subversive. Yes they explained, but he was viewed as anti-American. Somebody slipped that one by the censors.

And so it goes.

Good story. Vonnegut was a great man and an inspiration to all who attempt to think.

Rob Zuber @ 231

readerOfTeaLeaves @ 220

Congress does not control the FCC. The President makes appointments, and the Bush appointments are insidious.

Sure, but Congress ultimately controls it, no? It can impeach the commissioners I’d assume or threaten to defund it.

I’m thinking hardball here, not your standard-issue namby-pamby Democratic Party stuff. )

I second your hardball hopes.

Commissions like the FCC are hard to get a handle on. Just as we’re seeing with DoJ, whoever gets appointed to the FCC has influence over staffing decisions.

You really need a Sen and/or House member who is passionately interested in, and has a basic understanding of, the basic science (and engineering) underlying the technologies.

Otherwise, the issues quickly become so complex that Congress Critters don’t even know what questions to ask. It requires an elected with good staff support. This stuff can be really dry and abstract, so without a passion for this stuff — it’s really hard to follow. If you can’t understand it, you can’t have much influence.

HIring people with law degrees and pol sci degrees to work on these issues (as I gather tends to be the case with Congressional committees) is just asking for trouble IMHO. I don’t think Congress has a prayer of oversight without at least one staffer with a pretty deep knowledge of the technology and its history… those folks tend to make a lot more in the private sector.

So Congress really has fairly limited control of the FCC, but someone with a passion for it could alter that equation.

(I have no first hand knowledge of the way that Congress interacts with this FCC, nor the relevant Commerce committee members, so I’m speaking out of my arse on some of this.)

————
FWIW: I was actually hugely impressed with Feingold’s questions, and he obviously has a working knowledge of information sciences issues. He couldn’t have led that session otherwise. The witnesses were excellent, and the implications were huge.

newtonusr @ 305

mrsmarks @ 290

O/T and sad news. Vonnegut dead at 84.

Hi Ho.

Thank you for making me think, Kurt. Thank you for speaking out about this war and this administration.

egregious @ 317

I won’t believe Vonnegut’s dead until he comes and tells me personally.

We were just talking about him yesterday wrt a Vonnegutian moment: once I signed for my own international Fedex package. Sent the package from the U.S., left for Russia a couple days later, went to the hospital, and opened the office door to see the Fedex guy with: my package.

My Russian colleagues had been permitted to read Vonnegut under Soviet times. Why? I asked, he is so subversive. Yes they explained, but he was viewed as anti-American. Somebody slipped that one by the censors.

And so it goes.

It’s hard to comprehend. The NYT has it. If you need a password, go to BugMeNot.

My father dropped bombs on Kurt Vonnegut, a long time ago. Because of that, I’ve always been fond of Kurt’s books. I was always glad that my father wasn’t that good at dropping bombs.

Loo Hoo @ 312

I want a zed. Whatever zed means.

You mean besides being zee in Canadian? Damned if I know.

Clusterfuck wants a war czar

Kurt dies

And so it goes.

montag @
325

hackworth @ 308

He’s in heaven now.

Or Tralfamadoran air space, whichever comes first….

He’s riding the chronosynclastic infundibulum at last.

legaleze @
249

I can’t disagree with you more, Eli. Comparing Imus to Coulter does nothing but impair your credibility and detract from your argument.

I may be ignorant about Imus as I never watch/listen to him and so can’t vouch for his attitude or past history. But there is a huge distinction between Imus and Coulter. Imus is a comedian, maybe a bad one, but a comedian nonetheless. To take him too seriously or classify him with the likes of Michelle Malkin and Glenn Beck is a gross over reaction.

What Imus said was deplorable. He said it was a mistake. Do you know differently? Of course not. He’s received a ton of flak for it and has apologized so often I can’t stand to hear him do it again.

As a parent you learn to pick your fights. If you don’t pick wisely you could be fighting all the time and never make your point. That is the risk that you and those of your view point are running with Imus. And from the media I’m familiar with nobody is rushing to Imus’ defense. IMHO it’s time to let it go and move on.

I agree. Heres what I saw tonight: Wall to wall coverage of the Imus firing. Did any of the truly evil assclowns like Coulter, Limbaugh, Michael Savage for God’s sake get anything like this coverage? No. Instead, what I’m treated to is Sean Hannity interviewing Ann Coulter about how great it was that they got Imus. I’m sure their glee is fueled not just by their awareness of their own immunity, but also by the Fox-MSNBC feud. Bill O’Reilly sure was smug about it.

I don’t see this is any particular victory at all. Imus was a curmudgeon, and one with spectactuarly bad taste. But a curmudgeon who did a heck of lot of good work in addition to his incessant stupidity. Normally, his targets are the rich, famous and powerful, so he gets away with it. This time be blundered with his target, which is probably due to senility as much as anything else. But don’t kid yourself that this will lead to any of the truly evil ones going away. It won’t. Because they’re far too sophisticated in -real- racism.

ooooh, look who’ll chat tomorrow at the WaPo at 2pm eastern:

GOP Congressman Tom Davis, ranking minority member of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.

Questions accepted anytime. I’m sure they’ve got their shredder cranked up to 11 for my submissions….

Roger @
335

legaleze @
249

I can’t disagree with you more, Eli. Comparing Imus to Coulter does nothing but impair your credibility and detract from your argument.

I may be ignorant about Imus as I never watch/listen to him and so can’t vouch for his attitude or past history. But there is a huge distinction between Imus and Coulter. Imus is a comedian, maybe a bad one, but a comedian nonetheless. To take him too seriously or classify him with the likes of Michelle Malkin and Glenn Beck is a gross over reaction.

What Imus said was deplorable. He said it was a mistake. Do you know differently? Of course not. He’s received a ton of flak for it and has apologized so often I can’t stand to hear him do it again.

As a parent you learn to pick your fights. If you don’t pick wisely you could be fighting all the time and never make your point. That is the risk that you and those of your view point are running with Imus. And from the media I’m familiar with nobody is rushing to Imus’ defense. IMHO it’s time to let it go and move on.

I agree. Heres what I saw tonight: Wall to wall coverage of the Imus firing. Did any of the truly evil assclowns like Coulter, Limbaugh, Michael Savage for God’s sake get anything like this coverage? No. Instead, what I’m treated to is Sean Hannity interviewing Ann Coulter about how great it was that they got Imus. I’m sure their glee is fueled not just by their awareness of their own immunity, but also by the Fox-MSNBC feud. Bill O’Reilly sure was smug about it.

I don’t see this is any particular victory at all. Imus was a curmudgeon, and one with spectactuarly bad taste. But a curmudgeon who did a heck of lot of good work in addition to his incessant stupidity. Normally, his targets are the rich, famous and powerful, so he gets away with it. This time be blundered with his target, which is probably due to senility as much as anything else. But don’t kid yourself that this will lead to any of the truly evil ones going away. It won’t. Because they’re far too sophisticated in -real- racism.

I think you’re both missing my point, which is that MSNBC cutting ties to Imus says that hate speech is unacceptable on their airwaves. Whether Imus is “like” Coulter is irrelevant (I’m not convinced by all the talk that Imus is a good guy who screwed up, but I grant that he does not have an agenda in the same way that Coulter does) – he said something hateful and he paid a price for it. As opposed to the usual routine of apologies and tut-tutting and back to the status quo as soon as it all blows over. (Of course, I’m assuming MSNBC doesn’t announce that he’s reformed and bring him back six months from now)

That now makes it easier for MSNBC or other networks to shun the professional, full-time hatemongers like Coulter, and makes it harder for them not to, or to explain their refusal to. The odds of it actually playing out that way are admittedly slim, but they’re a hell of a lot better than they were a few days ago.

There is just about zero possibility that Limbaugh, Coulter, et al. will get the same treatment as Imus anytime soon. Why? Because when those ratbags open their mouths, and the left screams foul, the true faithful come to their defense–no questions asked. The left on the other hand, and networks (like MSNBC) with liberal pretensions, show the offender the door.

Folks are acting as if this incident has no context–that Imus doesn’t have 40 years of broadcasting to measure this event by, and that ‘ho is not a phrase that just popped into Imus’s head at that moment of incredible stupidity. The phrase (though, I admit, not Imus’s utterly incomprehensible addition of “nappy headed”) It comes from music that is considered legitimate artistic AND political expression by cultural critics, both black and white.

We don’t like the real look of our culture when it is held up in this way. Fair enough. But let’s not kid ourselves that we are witnessing some great moment in civil rights.

As far as the reaction of the black community– Tamara Sharpton and Jessie “Hymietown” Jackson? Please. What disgusting hypocricy.

I hope this story is gone soon. It happened. Its over. It isn’t a great precedent. Now its just wasted ink.

Anyone who says this crap by Imus is not important is a concern troll and should be logged as that permanently. Grow up. This is racism and sexism at its most naked and its worst.

At the previous Imus thread, someone had this question, about Imus’s use of ho, and its tie to rap music (which of course we get to hear on and on about):

eCAHNomics @
24

So what do you all think about tying disgusting rap music lyrics to this story? Fair question, or trying to distract from the central question.

And this is my answer:

Rap lyrics are a straw man. What did rap music have to do with Imus’s remark beyond only the most fleeting connections via one of the words he used? And one that, unfortunately, wormed its way into mainstream expression, long, long ago. Ho has been mainstream at least 15 years. It stopped being a rap-only phemonemonen as soon as Meg Ryan used the term in a movie (Sleepless in Seattle, I believe).

What does rap music have to do with these athletes?

Were they spouting rap lyrics in public? Doubtful.

Were they “ho’s” or calling themselves that in public? Extremely doubtful.

So blaming rappers for Imus’s racist remark is both disingenuous and ridiculous, a desperate attempt to blame someone else–anyone else–for his reprehensible behavior.

As a person who holds even FDL, etc. as a little too right-wing for my tastes (and yes I marched in all the major protests, followed the Scooter trial, worked for Lamont, have all my elected reps in my cellphone, etc.), I am compelled to say that I find the focus on Imus in general and the comments here in particular more than an embarrassment.

I find them a travesty.

This is just the sort of reactionary witch hunt I watched during the Bill Clinton – Monica Lewinsky days. The names are different, the event is different, but the behavior is exactly the same.

I hoped we’d have learned from that experience, especially because it had been done to us. (Sort of like I hoped the Israelis might have learned from WWII.) Instead we just get to show that today we’re the other side of the yin-yang.

While I’ve always thought Imus was a jerk, even back when he was more of a DJ than the talk guy he is now, there are only a few things that matter here.

First, I either support free speech or I don’t. The degree to which I support Bush’s or Coulter’s or Limbaugh’s or Imus’ or Sharpton’s or Jackson’s or anyone’s right to say things I don’t like is the measure to which I actually support our First Amendment. Do I like what they say? Fuck no. Do I like a world where they’re not allowed to say it? Even less.

Comments like 338, “anyone who says XXX is YYY and should be labeled that way permanently” are the giveaway we’re in trouble. That’s the kind of comment that gets ridiculed here all the time, held up as an example of why we’re better, when it’s on Redstate or LGF or Malkin. (Nothing personal Douglas W., you’re just the one holding up our mirror for us.) But there’s a whole thread of that kind of stuff right here, and on the Left in general. That’s our clue we’re really caught in our collective complex.

The only way we’re any different than “them” is if we are able to show why our point of view, our beliefs, ought to be chosen. That means explaining to people, as many times and as many ways as it takes until they understand, why they should choose not to behave a certain way – not because we’ll punish them if they do, but because they can feel the impact it has on the other person. (The response of the Rutgers team, from what little I saw, seemed to be in this direction.) The “don’t do what I don’t like or I’ll kill you” is no better when it’s “don’t call women nappy-headed hos or we’ll end your career” than when it’s “don’t criticize the President/country/war or we’ll end your freedom.”

I hope some of you can see that.

So the opportunity of the moment is for us here to look not at “them” but at ourselves, and perhaps say “ohhh, I can understand why those people act the way they do sometimes. Even though I don’t get why they react this way about the things they do, we still react exactly alike, so we must be more alike than I thought. When they’re acting this way, they may be feeling this same way, too. I know I’m acting this way because I feel so powerless most of the time that I’m overcompensating when I do have a moment where I might wield some. I wonder if that might be what happens for them, too? I’ll talk to them about it.“

If that’s the outcome of all of this, then it will be a spectacular moment of healing, not just for white-black relations or male-female relations or right-left relations, but for every place there seems to be a split between people who can’t understand each other. Looking at ourselves and using our upset to understand the experience of the other side starts to bridge and heal everything.

On the other hand, if all we are is a lynch mob who finally see an opportunity to hang whoever we think is deserving, then we’re really no different than what we’ve said we wanted to change. We’re just another small town punishing someone for all the things we dislike about them, rather than the one crime we claim we’re trying them for. We’re the 90’s Republicans impeaching Bill for a blowjob.

So we’re either going to prove George Wallace was right, and there really isn’t a dime’s worth of difference between D and R, or we’re going to look at ourselves first and then reach out to the other side and in so doing make an amazing and incredibly wonderful change in the whole world.

Our choice.

Veritas78 @ 319

… This is what growing old is like. Your heroes die, and all you’re left with is you, trying to remember and carry on.

I know this thread is dead, but this is true… and worse. /Veritas64

I have been calling into radio programs ever since the 2000 Presidential judicial coup. Calling into Diane Rehms, Talk of the Nation, C-Span etc. I do believe that these shows actually attempt to be balanced. (especially Diane Rehms)

I have tried to call into so called “christian” stations during my summers spent in Colorado. On three different occasions, when I was able to get through and had reasonable statements or questions in regard to the claims being made by the radical ministers on the programs. One guy was spewing Anti-Arab hate speech, saying that people in that part of the world hate Americans and wanted to kill all of us.

I persisted trying to get through and was able to get through the screener to the producer.(she would not allow me on air). It was very clear that they did not and would not allow any opposing views through on their program. Christian Fascist!

We should all turn our attention on Limbaugh, e-mails, phone calls, petitions. Get rid of that hate spewing hypocrite and drug addict!

Eli @
337

Roger @
335

legaleze @
249

I can’t disagree with you more, Eli. Comparing Imus to Coulter does nothing but impair your credibility and detract from your argument.

I may be ignorant about Imus as I never watch/listen to him and so can’t vouch for his attitude or past history. But there is a huge distinction between Imus and Coulter. Imus is a comedian, maybe a bad one, but a comedian nonetheless. To take him too seriously or classify him with the likes of Michelle Malkin and Glenn Beck is a gross over reaction.

What Imus said was deplorable. He said it was a mistake. Do you know differently? Of course not. He’s received a ton of flak for it and has apologized so often I can’t stand to hear him do it again.

As a parent you learn to pick your fights. If you don’t pick wisely you could be fighting all the time and never make your point. That is the risk that you and those of your view point are running with Imus. And from the media I’m familiar with nobody is rushing to Imus’ defense. IMHO it’s time to let it go and move on.

I agree. Heres what I saw tonight: Wall to wall coverage of the Imus firing. Did any of the truly evil assclowns like Coulter, Limbaugh, Michael Savage for God’s sake get anything like this coverage? No. Instead, what I’m treated to is Sean Hannity interviewing Ann Coulter about how great it was that they got Imus. I’m sure their glee is fueled not just by their awareness of their own immunity, but also by the Fox-MSNBC feud. Bill O’Reilly sure was smug about it.

I don’t see this is any particular victory at all. Imus was a curmudgeon, and one with spectactuarly bad taste. But a curmudgeon who did a heck of lot of good work in addition to his incessant stupidity. Normally, his targets are the rich, famous and powerful, so he gets away with it. This time be blundered with his target, which is probably due to senility as much as anything else. But don’t kid yourself that this will lead to any of the truly evil ones going away. It won’t. Because they’re far too sophisticated in -real- racism.

I think you’re both missing my point, which is that MSNBC cutting ties to Imus says that hate speech is unacceptable on their airwaves. Whether Imus is “like” Coulter is irrelevant (I’m not convinced by all the talk that Imus is a good guy who screwed up, but I grant that he does not have an agenda in the same way that Coulter does) – he said something hateful and he paid a price for it. As opposed to the usual routine of apologies and tut-tutting and back to the status quo as soon as it all blows over. (Of course, I’m assuming MSNBC doesn’t announce that he’s reformed and bring him back six months from now)

That now makes it easier for MSNBC or other networks to shun the professional, full-time hatemongers like Coulter, and makes it harder for them not to, or to explain their refusal to. The odds of it actually playing out that way are admittedly slim, but they’re a hell of a lot better than they were a few days ago.

It would be great, if that was what it actually meant. But I don’t believe it for a minute. The reason Imus was brought down was largely due to the mighty wurlitzer of the right not being interested in defending him. Watch them man the barricades when its Rush, or Ann or Michelle.

Not gonna happen.

I am proposing sending a $$ to Rutgers in honor of the Women’s Team. They are teaching this country a lesson as they have spoken out with wisdom, truth, class and shown the face of yes, words can hurt. Their demeanor has been the greatest counterpoint to Imus vileness. I am so grateful for their sincere composure. They represent the faces of hope as the faces of tomorrow.

There are two elements which need to be clearly defined to analyze the Imus story: intent and money.
INTENT : Don Imus did not make one youthful transgression in making these comments. There is a long pattern of these comments. And this “nappy-headed ho” comment was knowingly and intentionally made. Why?
MONEY : Making these kinds of outgrageous comments gets him attention, viewers, and makes him and the stations MONEY.
These two factors explain why an apology is a sham. They also explain why “Consequences” is correct in suggesting some major change coming: advertisers are saying that one shall not make money off of offensive racial and gender-based slurs. This is a major development.
Final Note: the Rutgers women have a legal remedy for slander/defamation against Imus. THey should pursue it.

I don’t see how anyone who listens to Imus regularly (and I don’t mean only when Media Matters tells you to) can lump him with the folks on the right. You say that that’s not the point, but even you are somehow unconvinced that he’s not a “good guy who screwed up”. If you were a regular listener, then you probably wouldn’t be judging his remarks in a vacuum and neglecting everything he has done for children of all races at his cancer ranch, SIDS foundation (the radio telethon is TODAY), Fallen Heroes fund, Iraq vets, the environment, and autism research.

He has said something hateful, and he should pay a price. But what is that price? The Rutgers coach said on KO that the womens’ accomplishments have been “obliterated” by Imus’s comments. What??? Their achievements as student-athletes were great and monumental and no schmuck can take that away from them, not even Imus. To say that they suffered some sort of traumatic assault is an overstatement. I believe he should suspended, but not fired. If and when the PC police is successful in tearing him down, will they say to those charities, “We got rid of that vile racist. Now ask someone else for help.”?

“Right wing haters”? Like “Hymie Town” (Jesse Jackson)? Like Tawana Brawley scandel; Crown Heights Riot; Freddy’s fashion Mart “white interloper” (Al Sharpton - who paid > $300K to Stephen Pagones in a libel suit)? yea, I forgot.

The Imus kerfuffle is a tactical diversion of the mainstream media.

The mainstream media serves at the pleasure of its corporate advertisers. We are told what to think morally and politically by the same corporations that tell us what soap to buy and what banks to invest with. Under threat of massive boycotts, Imus’ advertisers pulled the carpet from under him. Remember, nobody pulled their ads when they first heard of what Imus said, they only pulled when they figured it would affect their bottom line. The story picked up steam as corporations pulled away, these events are synergistic. The feeding frenzy heightens once GM, Staples, Bigelow Tea, and Procter & Gamble no longer have Imus’ back. This is not a coincidence, it’s a corporate betrayal. They obviously liked Imus plenty when he made his “Lenny the Jew” comments about Len Berman several years back when Berman abruptly quit his radio show, but only because the outrage was contained.
As far as Imus, this should be a one or two day story. Imus says bad thing, people are outraged, Imus apologizes. Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Neal Boortz, and Sean Hannity say racist things on their shows all the time and nobody calls them on it. Dumbass Boortz, in particular, calls Muslims “ragpickers” when he really means “ragheads.” Still, why aren’t these companies pulling their ads from these shows?
And while the rest of the mainstream media is rubbernecking at the Imus wreck, they’re conveniently diverted as the Bush administration gets away with erasing hundreds of incriminating emails from their server, and covering up possibly the greatest political crime of the last 35 years.

Sharpton is using Imus…so is the head of the BET…Black Entertainment Television. They want Imus to be the poster child for what really is their own failure to maintain dignity among their own by either turning their heads away from Rap music or worse-making money off it. Then again…Sharpton has a hard problem of dignity himself…
http://www.lewrockwell.com/and…..on134.html
Let’s just start with Tawana…shall we?