
David Broder, Washington Post Writers Group
Waiting for signs of the long awaited collapse of the Bush/Cheney regime reminds me of that scene in Charade when Herman Scobie (George Kennedy) sticks a pin in the cadaver of Audrey Hepburn’s husband just to make sure he’s really dead. But despite our cynicism over the lack of remorse and the failure to name names, I don’t see how we can completely discount Matthew Dowd’s desertion, nor can we ignore the fact that Specter slapped down Lieberman on Pelosi’s Syria visit, while Newt Gingrinch suggested that perhaps it was time for Alberto Gonzales to resign. And Tuesday, Glenn Greenwald wrote a surprised column about Fred Hiatt’s sudden conversion to the view that maybe, just maybe, there was merit in the notion that there was something seriously inappropriate about the White House’s political interference in the handling of US Attorneys. Fred Hiatt? That Fred Hiatt? What’s going on here?
So what should we make of David Broder’s column Tuesday, in which he suggested that the adults in the White House and Democratic Congress would serve the nation well if they could work out a compromise on the Iraq funding bill? Knowing that the Bush/Regime has declared itself adamantly opposed to compromise on Iraq, our side has been quick to warn the Democrats against accepting the President’s empty invitation to talk and dissing Broder’s suggestion as naive at best and advocating unilateral capitulation by the Democrats at worst. But is it?
I know I’m in the minority here, because I lost the straw vote at Atrios’ site over whether David Broder or Richard Cohen should get the coveted daily “award.” I thought Cohen deserved it hands down for doing Karl Rove’s dirty work in smearing Partick Fitzgerald and shielding Monica Goodling. I lost, but at least I’m in good company.
Still, I think Broder’s description of what a compromise might look like deserves a second look, not because I think it will happen nor agree with the details, but because I don’t think he’s advocating one-sided, unilateral concessions by the Democrats. And that itself is a sign that the debate is changing. This is how he describes a possible “compromise” on funding:
From the start, Democrats ought to concede one big point: Absent any readiness on their part to cut off funds to the troops in Iraq, those forces will be there as long as George Bush wants them to remain. Once that point is conceded, Bush should be called upon to pay some attention to the Democrats’ demands — and the public opinion that supports them.
At a minimum, he should say he is willing to enforce on our Iraqi allies the requirements everyone knows are necessary steps for a political settlement of the internal conflict: the agreement on distribution of oil revenue, the promised amendments to the constitution, the creation of local and regional governments. Bush should indicate publicly — for the sake of American public opinion and as a clear signal to the government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki — that without those pledges being met, he cannot justify the sacrifices American troops are making.
I don’t read this as calling for a unilateral Democratic surrender, although the phrasing is ambiguous, perhaps deliberately so. The Democrats are asked to acknowledge what I believe is true: at this time, there seems no likely prospect for enough Republican votes to override a veto of a bill with all the conditions now attached to the House and Senate funding bills. Several Democratic leaders have said as much, and they are thinking through what happens after an override effort fails. So their “concession” is to accept political realities they already recognize. How they play that hand is up to them.
At the same time, Broder thinks Bush should accept something fairly important: there must be substantial progress by the Iraqis towards reconciliation, and if the Iraqi’s fail to meet the conditions, then Americans “cannot accept the sacrifies American troops are making.” The clear implication is that US troops would be withdrawn unless certain conditions are met. That is not Bush’s position; it’s the Democrats’ position.
My point is not that this is the best compromise, nor do I expect the Bush/Cheney regime to accept anything close to this, although who knows what may happend as the weeks go by and casualties mount, conditions worsen without unambiguous political “progress” (however defined) and increasingly anxious Republicans continue to defect. The point is that Dean Broder is saying that a compromise by the President that calls for withdrawal becomes a moral imperative if there is no measurable progress on resolving the civil war.
We can criticize lots of things here, such as how long it took, or not mentioning Murtha’s troop readiness conditions, or being ambiguous about eventual withdrawal. But I think Broder is signalling that whatever part of the political spectrum he represents — and he thinks he speaks for the great reasonable middle — is done with an indefinite occupation, done with the no-compromise White House position and its buck passing, and telling the President he has a moral obligation to make a deal that will get our troops out. From the perspective of a White House trying desperately to run out the clock and shift blame to the Democrats, this is not where they want the David Broders to be, and I think the Democrats know that. (Thanks to Amato at C&L for the video)
There’s one more clue that support for Bush/Cheney is collapsing. It seems the WH has been looking around for someone to be “war czar,” to replace Hadley’s deputy, Meghan Sullivan — and no one is interested:
“The very fundamental issue is, they don’t know where the hell they’re going,” said retired Marine Gen. John J. “Jack” Sheehan, a former top NATO commander who was among those rejecting the job. Sheehan said he believes that Vice President Cheney and his hawkish allies remain more powerful within the administration than pragmatists looking for a way out of Iraq. “So rather than go over there, develop an ulcer and eventually leave, I said, ‘No, thanks,’ ” he said.
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Mornin’, glories.
In a rational world, all these ideas of tipping points would be true. But Bush will bring down the world around him before admitting any sort of blunder.
Please – give no credit to Broder. Ever.
What he is thinks is that “Bush should be called upon to give some attention to Democrats’ demands”. What does that even mean? Nothing. “Being called upon to give some attention” means zip. Zilch. Nada. Ei yhtaan mitaan.
Can you not see Broder’s game here? He is trying to get Dems involved in the end game of Iraq – so that the defeat can tarnish both parties.
Broder cannot handle the idea of the Iraq disaster tarnishing only Republicans. He had no trouble with Bush flying solo all these years and making every single disastrous decision.
But now there is a shit sandwhich to be eaten – so it’s time to invite the Dems to the table.
No fucking way.
karelian @
3
EXACTLY.
Broder is a Richard Perle neocon first, last and always.
Thanks for posting EZ Writer’s story — I was just running over here to do so!
Nobody in the Pentagon wants to be the fall guy.
You were right on all accounts.
And on this in particular, Bush just wants to run out the clock and blame the Democrats. Why would anyone accept that invitation that Bush threw out there? He’s inviting the Democrats to come to his house and listen to the same crap he’s been spewing, then he’s going to tell the press that he tried to meet, but they wouldn’t listen. Meanwhile, he’s trying to blame the Democrats for the veto that he’s going to use.
It gives you an idea of how frustrating it must be for countries like Iran (or even Sadaams’ Iraq, maybe) to try and talk sense with Bush. They just don’t do diplomacy, unless of course, you call installing unqualified ambassadors in Belgium diplomacy.
Last thread
Marion/Savannah
Good morning, pups. MoDo is back from vacation, with more of her usual. Thomas Friedman writes from Kenya on how unfair it is that those least responsible for global warming pay the highest price.
http://mgpaquin.wordpress.com/
It may finally rain here today. (It’s hard to type with your fingers crossed!) Coffee and tea are ready, with a variety of bagels and cream cheese. Have a wonderful day.
From kathleen
When Friedman was on C-spans book T.V. just after “The world is Flat” came out. I was able to get in a question to him about why the continent of Africa was not in his “the world is flat is a good thing” theory. He mumbled and stumbled.
I thought the war czar article was interesting … esp’ly that they named names of the people who turned it down. Pretty much of a public rebuke
Like nested Russian dolls of evil, the elements of Broder’s “compromise” contain unpleasant surprises. For example, pressing the Iraqis to approve the “oil law” is represented as a milestone of progress. In fact, the US-drafted oil law is a plan for exploitation in which US oil company executives will control a council that makes all key decisions on oil extraction. Further, the draft law proposes production sharing arrangements that are far more generous to the oil companies than typical arrangements elsewhere in the Mideast.
You should also note that the online responses to Broder’s latest ridiculous column at the WaPo web site are running 100-to-1 against his proposal.
Well, this should be an interesting morning. Feelings run deep on the Dean.
Broder may be sending a signal, but it is one that is best ignored. As david Obey said in the House a few weeks back (and which I quoted here just a few days ago) “The problem is not that we listen to the Washington Post enough, it’s that we listen too much.”
The problem with Broder’s “compromise” is that it’s NOT a compromise: Bush will never honor his own agreements and never has (signing statements). If the democrats were to play ball, the WH would pull a Lucy van pelt, pulling the ball away at the last minute.
no thanks.
You should also note that the online responses to Broder’s latest ridiculous column at the WaPo web site are running 100-to-1 against his proposal.
Feels familiar. Is it reactions to Broder himself or rejecting the notion that Bush should compromise and accept a withdrawal scenario. Can you separate the man from the concept?
Well it’s good for Democratic leadership to publicly acknowledge they’re dealing with a preznit who once said a “dictatorship would be easier.” It’s a step. I can’t believe that HoJoe is still babbling about “bipartisanship” being the problem (mindwarp or timewarp?) Maybe he’s taking his cue from David Broder.
I find I have to take deep breaths when I read or hear of Bush erstwhile apologists seeing the light now that their almighty bloody leader is dying a slow death. I am reminded of the expression “even a blind pig can find a truffle”.
The fact that this adventure in Iraq has been a bloody mess from the get go seems not to faze the prevaricating pundits. Damn them all. My suggestion for them is to take a walk down main street Baghdad without a kevlar vest…. and take that idiot McCain with you!
brendancalling @
11
So play that out: Suppose the Congress passes something like the Senate/House versions — and Bush signs the bill. Do we then wring our hands and say “things are worse, because Bush is dishonest”????
When has Broder acted in the best interest of Democrats? When he called Al Gore to give up the count? When he asked American people to let Bush run wild in 2001 in the spirit of national reconciliation? When he supported the Iraq war?
So how do you separate this man from his concepts if these concepts have always been damaging to his country and Democrats in particular?
well, i voted for richard cohen too…
that said, i fear the broders of the worlds. primary goals seem to be:
1. the privatization of iraqi oil – under cover of calling for the “fair” distribution of oil revenues (our oil companies must have their share!)
2. blame the iraqis.
i agree that there is a growing split among the elite – which we can work to exploit…. but let’s not forget that the people who line up against bush/cheney do NOT necessarily want what we want.
broder’s column may be another indication of an elite split – but i just don’t see it as a signal that people are coming over our way of thinking (anti-imperialist, willing to let iraq’s oil belong to iraqis).
It all sounds ok, until you read the article in the Independent about the plan to carve Bagdad into dozens of gated ghettos. This of course frees up 40k troops to go menace Iran.
Sen. Webb is right, the way to get Bush out of Iraq is to make it impossible for him to attack Iran. If Iran were off the table, Bush would bring back the troops and get them ready to invade Cuba, when Castro dies.
You can’t “compromise” with Bush. He doesn’t compromise. Ever. You do it his way, or no way at all.
Brendan is right: Bush will pull a Lucy on the Dems, and, like Charlie Brown, none of them will run for the ball but instead give Lucy a boot to the head, which is what I always wanted him to do to her.
Then again, I’m a fan of the Frantic’s Boot to the Head series.
Wouldn’t it be fun to see the Dems do something like that instead?
selise @ 17
selise — I’m not interested in whether Broder accepts my/your world view. I am interested in what it signals when a Broder tells the President he has a moral imperative to withdraw.
I’m sorry but I’m not ready to make nice with Broder either. I want flat out apologies from these enabling knuckleheads, not nuanced “let’s see if I can slide out the side door when no one is paying attention” mishmosh.
It’s over. It’s just a matter of which scandal is going to bring them down. What started as a joke-needing a scorecard to keep track of all the scandals- is now true.
Now the Broders of the world are worried about the inevitable question, “How did you not know all of this was going on?” while shoving down cocktail weenie after cocktail weenie.
I think you are right. Broder is sending a signal of what the Washington establishment really think. They are worried that the social and economic gravy train they have been riding since 1981 is going to go so far off the tracks in 2008 that they will never get back on. You can dress all this self-interest up as much as you want, but that’s what it comes down to, IMO.
As to Bush stalling to 2009, that’s a given, and it’s a given no matter what. We are going to have to accept a thousand to fifteen hundred more deaths, and simply hope that the consequence will be that the United States never engages in Preventive War again, or at least in the lifetime of the generation to which those kids over there belong. If that happens, and if the Republican brand is permanently damaged by it, the deaths and maiming will not have been in vain. It’s a high price to pay, but if we are going to pay it no matter what, we might as well get something for it.
lee5 @ 8
Dick Cheney wants a “yes” man.
scarecrow–
Broder still has a very long way to go. He writes as if Bush is honestly interested in resolving this conflict. He’s not. His statement yesterday that Congressional leaders need to report their progress to him in passing a clean bill makes it very clear that the only way we are going to begin to get out of this is for Congressional Republicans to desert him.
Providing advice to Bush at this point is a complete waste of time. Broder needs to address not Bush, but the Republicans in the House and the Senate. I happen to think that Feingold-Reid is the right approach. Send back a stronger bill. And say the next one will be stronger still. Eventually, a veto will be overridden.
Broder is the latest rat to jump the ship – but why this should be significant escapes me. There are literally dozens of rats left. From Krauthammer to miniature rodents like Congressional Republicans.
The principal reasons Broder wrote this column are:
A) trying to trick Democrats into sharing the blame for the defeat
B) trying to scrub the blood off his cuffs by seeming to propose something that might one day diminish the slaughter
He is simultaneously attempting to get Democrats to jump into a swamp of gore and claw his own way back to solid ground. There is nothing interesting or surprising happening here.
Friedman’s plan involves writing piously about Africa and blaming Iraqis for being such bad sports. Every war monger has his or her own way of trying to duck the blame.
‘Morning, Pups. Nice, trenchant piece (per usual). Broder is indeed a pompous windbag. I sure hope he departs when the Bushies do, and it’s looking like that’ll be before Jan. 20, 2009!!
EPU’ed from Eggsmas:
The probability of that event is undeniably increasing, neh? :)(((FDL and its entire crew of megabloggers)))
(((Scarecrow)))
(((Jane!)))
jayackroyd @ 24
I don’t disagree with any of this. Broder didn’t write a letter to Bush; he published a column for anyone to read, including the Republicans in the House and Senate, so Broder’s message went to all of them. It is their votes we need. If no one cares what he thinks, then of course it doesn’t matter. But I suspect some on the right do care (or are at least concerned), and that’s why I think it was an interesting message, and all the more so because of the negative feelings many here have towards him.
Scarecrow @ 20
ahh. that helps.
i don’t think he’s telling the president anything – i think he’s trying to create support (outside the administration) for a different kind of occupation, one that explictly recognizes the majority of the iraqi people as the enemy. (contrast bush’s language which has always been about “freedom” and “democracy” for the iraqi people – we are there to help them and their “democratically” elected representatives)
and i don’t see a message to anyone of a “moral imperative to withdraw”.
… hope i’m being blind this morning… haven’t had any coffee yet, better go make some.
HH @
9
Exactly. That “oil revenue” provision is the poison in the potion; it ensures continued military control, either directly or by proxy (if we could find anyone willing), to “protect American [corporate] interests”. All the rest is traps and window dressing.
It’s not my fault–I voted for Cohen.
But I think Broder is signalling that whatever part of the political spectrum he represents — and he thinks he speaks for the great reasonable middle
And he’s wrong about that, so why should we care?
Look, Broder’s argument is basically, “let’s give this Iraq thing another F.U. or two, and see where we are before we make any real changes”. In other words, it’s McCainism or Liebermanism or whatever, you know full well what we’re talking about. What he suggests doesn’t present any accountability for anything Bush does, and if you don’t hold Bush accountable for it, what’s the freakin’ point?
Trying to sift through the tea leaves of anything Broder says is just a waste of time if he doesn’t make it abundantly clear from the outset that Bush’s obstinacy is the real problem – because we all know full well that it is, and that is well documented here and elsewhere.
It’s not the Dems who need to be told to compromise, it’s the Boy King down the street. “Reasonable middle”, my hairy ass.
rumpole @ 30
Welcome. Wear your flak jacket. ;)
Gotta say no Scarecrow..
Its Classic Broder..”The Democrats should give Bush consideration, then give him something”. Nope don’t buy that as a compromise. The thing is clear and clarified by Bush himself. It’s my way or the Highway he said. That is the foundation of his position. That is what the Democrats are up against, not his baloney position on a spending bill.
I wish palosi knew how to bargain
she should be doing what rove told the president to do, she should also be saying things like;
there is no compromise from this bill, the president serves at the pleasure of Americans and they demand he abandon his failed policy
this bill is only the beginning and just starts the process
if he wants to continue fighting this war he created by falsifying documents and hiding facts then he is going to have to start making the changes the American people demanded in the previous election
if he doesn’t choose to fund the troops we are ok with that too and we will be happy to fund their return.
there is no compromise, we have waited too long for the president to support our troops on his own and now we demand it”
bing
then palosi can invite HIM to congress and tell HIM it is to explain the bill, NOT to compromise on it
though I am quite impressed with palosi so far, never the less she needs bargaining skills
As to the War Czar issue, it’s no different than DOJ- no one who could be confirmed wants to touch that position right now with a ten foot pole. As Newt told us last week the hearings are gonna continue non-stop for the next 2 years.
Why would anyone take a pay cut to oversee that?
No, better to let Gonzo twist in the wind until he has to be let go.
If it weren’t Bush, the compromise you’re discussing might be rational. But Bush cannot be trusted to keep a deal.
Appropriations is a place where the veto power is least powerful, because Bush needs a bill to be passed. Democrats should use this leverage to the max and fight every step of the way. Probably Bush will win a game of chicken, since a lot of the media are his mouthpieces, but renewing funding three or four months at a time might be a fall-back position.
The Democrats need to cut the funding now and let the debate over the war take place in 2008 while conditions look favorable for us. If they wait until after the 2008 election to cut off funding then the issue will be revisited in 2012, 2016, etc. by Republicans. It will be just like the aftermath of Vietnam. Best to give the people are clear choice in 2008 and be done with it.
JH
perris @ 34
I agree. It would be extremely effective, imho, were Speaker Pelosi and Majority Leader Reid to buy some time for a national TV address and to forcefully make the points you outlined in a sort of “responsive reading.”
POW. Right in the kisser.
Your move, Georgie-boy…
Huh? According to Broder:
… and then, fearing a Sunni takeover if the U.S. stops that sacrifice, the Shiites (al-Maliki included) will capitulates to Bush’s wishes and say “Yes sir, boss man.” And we’ll all live happily ever after.
A war of attrition.
Bush is betting that not enough Rs will fall before the funding time line runs out.
The question is how many more of our soldiers will die and be maimed in the process, before enough is enough.
A war of attrition.
The clock ticks onward to 2008.
If the situation in Iraq shows no marked improvement by summer’s end, a veto override will materialize by autumn.
The Monarcy of King George will be declared officially
over.
Hmmm, I have to say, I think your reading is incredibly optimistic. There may be a signal there, but I think it’s much fainter and with more deniability than you seem to be seeing.
I don’t see this as code for “Bush should say that we’re going to pull out if the Iraqi government doesn’t meet our milestones,” I see it as another round of “Bush should say we’re really really serious about this.” He’s done that; they ran “blame Maliki” up the flag a few months ago, and nobody but thirty percenters saluted, and if it didn’t let them escape blame, they weren’t going to continue.
The problem is that Broder’s “compromise” is full of “Bush should say” not “Bush should do.”
Ferruge @ 31
If you believe Broder is irrelevant, then the signal is irrelevant too.
The Dems have already voted (except for a dozen in the House) to fund the surge for another year.
I don’t think the message is to the Dems, because they’re already there; it’s to the Republicans.
OT – CNN trying to push the “Iran is providing IED’s” meme again.
fer cryin’ out loud… if they say it enough times will it be true?
OldCoastie @
44
Got a link?
Bush should indicate publicly — for the sake of American public opinion and as a clear signal to the government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki — that without those pledges being met, he cannot justify the sacrifices American troops are making.
But he already has said this. That’s what is so aggravating. A huge problem unacknowledged by Broder is that the Bushies apparently think they have their own set of facts that allows them to think they’re “making progress”. Everyone else knows differently. What does Broder advocate that Congress actually do to make sure this Iraq thing doesn’t remain the open-ended committment it currently is? So far all he suggests is “more of the same”, “wait another F.U.”, but most importanly, to keep passing funding legislation with NO STRINGS ATTACHED, and to just let Bush get by with mere talk, talk he’s *already* made. Frankly, I see the current approach as the best one, with Congress forcing the issue (as is their Constitutional duty) and not simply conceding to Bush here.
Sorry for posting twice here on two separate aspects of this post, but just sitting here thinking about this ridiculous situation pisses me off to no end.
perris @ 34
Then the David Gregorys of the world would accuse her of “trying to establish a shadow government.” And wingnuts would jump up and down with excitement babbling about Logan Acts. (/snark) Sorry, just catching up on all that stuff.
I think Pelosi and Reid owe it to the American people to stand firm as you say.
Wigwam @ 44
Here is a link from AP: Link
OT – 17 dead in 2 bombings in Algeria
Prime Minister Abdelaziz Belkhadem, who was unhurt, said that militants — believed to be linked to al-Qaida — were responsible for the “cowardly, criminal terrorist act” as he spoke to reporters outside his wrecked offices.
from scarecrow’s war czar link:
read this first line and thought…. is cheney trying to control gates, rice and cia, et al… and create a wall between them and the POTUS?
what do you all think – does this have cheney’s fingerprints on it? and what does it say about his control of the adminstration – waning or holding steady?
it’s interesting cause broder is breaking w/ Dear Leader … cover for the future so that he can continue to announce that we have always been at war w/ Oceania … A realization that things are moving ahead of Dear Leader.
Just like hillary traingulates to be 5 poll points to the right of the populace, broder and ilk have to triangulate to be 18 months behind reality.
Wigwam @ 44
tv
biff diggerence @ 41
The Monarchy of King George will be declared officially
over.
Not enough. We must do more than simply block.
INVESTIGATE! IMPEACH! CONVICT! EXTIRPATE! SEND TO THE HAGUE! Save the Constitution!
Even if the Dems did what Broder suggested, given the past history of Bush and the Bushies I would be looking for a Presidential signing statement or fingers crossed behind his back. It is hard to trust these asses.
This time it’s not WMD’s, it’s this:
AP – A U.S. military spokesman said Iran is training Iraqis to make deadly roadside bombs. EFPs or explosively formed penetrators, hurl a molten, fist-sized copper slug capable of piercing armored vehicles.
We are being set-up, just like in Iraq.
Scarecrow,
I always find myself agreeing with you because your writing has a — moderating — influence on me. (Can I say that?) I mean, I’m as progressive/liberal as anyone out there, but I don’t believe that we help ourselves by being unrealistically blind to help from ANY quarter.
Not real familiar with Broder, so perhaps I’m not entitled to comment on his cited piece, but it seems from the above comments that he’s a right wing tool. To my way of thinking, if that’s so, then all the more reason to be hopeful, no? Or so I see it…
-MS
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..l/#respond
Think he’d melt if we waterboarded him ?
Redshift @
42
And Shiites, like al-Maliki, have no motivation to keep U.S. troops in their country. They want to get on with the business of payback, a bit of overdue ethnic cleansing so to speak. Why should they want U.S. troops interfering?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 54
didn’t they just try this a couple months ago? like when they were displaying the devices with the english writing on the sides?
they probably took ‘em back to the workshop and repainted the markings to look more believeable.
Scarecrow at 27:
I do seriously wonder whether anybody cares what he thinks, or what he writes. It’s very hard to penetrate the interface between the prominent media figures and the Congressional leadership.
IAC, I think it’s past time to be addressing the president in this kind of column. He could have, and should have, taken the extremely centrist position that the Congress has a role to play in running the country, and it is up to the Republicans on the Hill to restore their constitutional authority.
I do agree that the signals coming out of Washington do seem to indicate that Bush’s support among Republicans in rapidly diminishing. I believe Andrea Mitchell’s report that there are Senators who think August represents the end of the last F.U. But I am not confident that they will feel that way in August, without continued pressure from citizens and the media.
I’ve said before, and I’ll say again, that I’d like to see a Roots Project effort to target the 21 republican senators up for reelection in 08. I think they are all at risk, and can be influenced by constituent contacts.
OT, but is this really a surprise?
From Josh at TPM:
Yes, let’s tamp down on prosecuting those white-collar criminals–you know, the base of the GOP.
Ferruge — I don’t believe Bush has ever said that he believes the American sacrifice would not be worth it if conditions weren’t met. My recollection is that Bush has always said that the American people’s patience could run out. He’s been very careful not to say what he would do if the conditions aren’t met — that is, he’s always left it open ended. I interpret Broder as saying the President must change on that very point.
I’m not predicting Bush would do so; I’m only asking whether the fact that Broder’s asking for it matters.
I’m sure the Dems will ultimately compromise, as they should, but the key word is COMPROMISE, which means Bush must give some ground. He cannot just stomp his feet and insist on everything he wants. The impetus is on him to come to Congress with concessions. Afterall, he’s the one vetoing the funding and Congress is the one voting for the funding.
biff diggerence @ 57
Because of the Oz reference, I’m bettin’ this post was a response to my #53…? If so, my answer:
I don’t think so, but I’d pay to see that! :)
John Emerson @ 36
exactly. any compromise must take into account that bush can not be trusted even a little bit. 3/4 months of funding gives congress the responsibility to evaluate the situation – not bush.
Jeb for “war czar”!
Mercy buckets to all the kind folk (TexasBetsy, Scarecrow, noen, & S.O.S. from MA) who responded to my yesterday a.m. question wrt possible methods of accessing C-Span3. Just another of the many reasons why I love the Lake & all its denizens. ((((((hugs)))))
Scarecrow @
43
It’s not that I think he’s irrelevant, it’s that he’s not reasonable. If this really is a signal to Congressional Republicans, it sure is mighty subtle. I just don’t suffer such indirectness and waffly talk on this topic after seeing the situation devolve as much as it has. Especially by people who are partly responsible for the drumbeating that got us into this mess in the first place but can’t own up to it.
OldCoastie @ 44
I have been so turned off by CNN because of Lou Dobbs et al. Or since it became the Conservative News Network, really. Has Malveaux changed her *cough* *hack* “coverage” of Pelosi’s trip since the storm of protest emails?
blah bblah blah…give shrubcos loser ideas another forum
stfu
Dying for dollars.
It will end only when enough of our elected officials decide enough have died and enough has been spent in the pursuit of a totally failed policy.
I guess 30 dead during Easter week is not enough. But the numbers are going up and up. We have to get out. Whatever anyone anywhere says.
R Hayes @ 29
The sad thing is that an equitable law for sharing oil revenue is seen, in the view of many people more knowledgeable than I (Juan Cole, for example), as an essential component of a stable settlement to the civil war — a confederation where one of the functions of the central government is to distribute oil revenues. Part of what’s supposedly driving support for the insurgency is that if the sectarian groups separate to their stronghold areas, the Shia and Kurds have oil, and the Sunni are screwed.
But since this is oil and the Bushies are fundamentally incapable of putting even the success of their own project ahead of their personal interests, under the law they’re pushing (and that Broder mindlessly signs onto), everyone is screwed.
Heckuva job, Bushie.
o/t
crikey – they are at it again
BAGHDAD -
Iran has been training Iraqi fighters in the assembly of deadly roadside bombs known as EFPs, the U.S. military spokesman said Wednesday.
yahoo news
How about this for a compromise…
We’ll give you the money with no timetable if…
You give us those documents that were kept from the 9/11 commission
You give us the AG documents and all the emails on the RNC server
You send Rove, Miers and yourself over to testify under oath.
Cheney resigns
You investigate the Plame leak, like you said you would
Yeah, right.
I don’t see Broder doing anything except saying that Dems need to go along to get along, and that the “dean” is seriously delusional or mendacious to put up this piece after Bush made it clear yesterday where he stands. Given Broder’s history, I go with mendacious. He knows Bush isn’t going to budge one inch, but if Broder can get the Dems to cave, then all is right in his neocon world again.
Good morning, all.
OT- Pelosi & Lantos forge on, Repub criticism notwithstanding:
Pelosi & Lantos Interested in Iran Trip
LJ/Aquaria @ 74
Broder’s column was up early a.m. yesterday, prior to Bush’s comments. But I would agree that one could have concluded from Bush’ past that he would reject any notion of compromise on this topic. Assuming (without knowing) that Broder would also have understood this obstinacy, then his audience was not Bush.
What happens if Bush refuses to compromise, which he has never done in any case, and the Democrats refuse to fund the war? After shuffling the credit cards for a month or two, what?
If they run out of money, perhaps Bush et al just start bringing troops home with the meme “The Dems lost the war.” Sounds good to me for two reasons
1) the “Dems lost the War” meme won’t fly, and
2) if the troops come home, or some of them, that is good no matter what.
What am I missing? If Bush and Congress don’t budge, what happens?
Phoenix Woman @ 4
Exactly Exactly!
Dowd another rat jumping from a sinking ship. Repeating the horseshit mantra “if only we knew then what we know now” (heard Dowd on NPr during an interview with Robert Siegel say this bullshit line)
All of these “if only we knew then what we know now” bullshit artists really get under my skin. Our reps and many in the MSM should have simply listened to the Diane Rehms show prior to the invasion. Diane had Zbigniew Brezinski, Madeline Albright, Scott Ritter, Cia analsyt and many others warning against the invasion, many seriously questioning the intelligence. Christ All mighty Iaea’s El Baradei came out before the invasion and told the world that the Niger Documents were flat out false. How much MSM coverage did you see of El Baradei prior to the invasion?
All of these “if only we knew then what we know now” groupthinkers, should have looked out of their windows in D.C. or what the hell come out on the streets to witness hundreds of thousands (accumulatively millions nationwide) of middle Americans who marched against the invasion. (oct 2002 in D.C.
Feb.2003 New York )
The MSM did not show our reps or the world the true make-up of those crowds. Many of us were watching the MSM closely during their coverage of those marches. They would show footage of the 20 people attending the marches with black hoods over their heads over and over again.
You did not see interviews with the thousands of teachers, soccer moms, social workers, teamsters, WWII Vets, (hell I walked with some WWII vets in Feb 2002 in New York who were in their 90’s)Korean, Vietnam, Desert Storm VEts, students, families pushing babies in strollers and grandparents in wheel chairs, construction workers, etc. attending those marches. The 9/11 families against the invasion led the 2002 march in New York.
Millions of middle americans questioned, called and e-mailed our reps (based on what we were hearing experts saying) and marched against the invasion.
When I hear Lou Dobbs, Scarborough, Chris Matthews, Olbermann, Hillary Clinton,John Edwards, Hagel or even Foxsay that NOW middle America is questioning the war. I say horseshit! This is a complete and utter lie. Millions of middle Americans questioned and
marched prior to the invasion.
Our reps simplydid not take the time to go out on the street to see who was really there. And they obviously did not listen to the experts on the Diane Rehms show. I believe Flynnt Leverett (New America Foundation) left the Bush administration due to his stand against the invasion. Check out what Flynnt has to say about all of the unsubstantiated claims being repeated about Iran over at the New America Foundation
The MSM did not show the world the diverse make-up of those crowds. And now they continue to try to spin by saying it is just recently that middle Americans have been questioning the invasion and the ongoing war.
HORSE SHIT!
The Republicans and their non-Republican sympathizers, Broder, etc. (talking about the Middle East here) no longer ask “what would Jesus do”? They ask what would George do? To these guys it’s one in the same.
Good morning Scarecrow. 5:30pm here
I don’t see anything in his column about withdrawing.
I do see rising anxiety about the political cost of so many troops getting killed and maimed without those all-essential oil contracts being signed. And some changes to their constitution which will do what. Cui bono?
Then I stand corrected on when Broder’s claptrap came out, but not on the rest.
Look, Broder already knows Bush won’t budge on Iraq, and that’s a-ok with this twit. Read his language there carefully, and there’s nothing that flat-out says Bush should pull the troops out. There’s talk, “can’t jusitfy the sacrifices.” That doesn’t mean Bush will care if he has to justify them or not. I don’t think Bush cares if he can justify it or not. He hasn’t, after every single lie for this war has been debunked. Why start caring now?
So that leaves the message that Dems need to cave.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 55
This is so damn ridiculous. In mid-February, BushCo and their media minions started claiming that Iran was providing highly lethal weapons to Iraqis. But, in a 2/17/07 LA Times op-ed by Alexander Cockburn showed that the Iraqi’s were making their own EFPs: http://www.latimes.com/news/op…..ion-center
Nevertheless, on Feb. 20 the NYT had a front-page article claiming:
Then this past weekend Atrios caught WaPo changing their story to conform to the WH line.
Reuters ran an article that containing further refutation of the claim that Iraqi EFPs are coming from Iran:
http://in.today.reuters.com/ne…..3355-4.xml
The Washington Post’s original version of that story, captured by Google News, contained that same paragraph — see Atrios –, which was later replaced by the same old anti-Iran propaganda:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00397.html
Ferruge @
46
Darn tootin’
Broder has the same problem that the Congressional GOP has — Iraq is really unpopular. Eventually these folks will realize that the disconnect between Pundit-CW and rest-of-America-CW is so large that they are at risk of losing their place at the head of the parade.
Broder *is* signalling that benchmarks and timetables are important to the public, but he is still in the gang of 500 and he *needs* to toe the Pundit-CW line.
Knut Wicksell @ 22 points out that we have to assume that Bush is running out the clock trying to dump the problem on the next administration. Whether or not Bush is doing it on purpose or not, we should assume that is his strategy, because it makes sense of his pigheaded stubbornness.
If that is so, the strategy of the Democrats clearly ought to be to take every step possible to hang this war on the Republicans, while putting forward reasonable alternatives. Make Bush veto the bill. Make the Republicans vote to support the veto. Pass another funding bill for a short term, maybe six months, pass another bill with restrictions, make Bush veto it, make the Republicans vote to override, pass another six month bill and repeat.
Make the American people watch in horror as the Republicans clutch the Bush administration to their chests like an anvil, and leap into the electoral sea.
Scarecrow @ 43
If you believe Broder is irrelevant, then the signal is irrelevant too.
The Dems have already voted (except for a dozen in the House) to fund the surge for another year.
I don’t think the message is to the Dems, because they’re already there; it’s to the Republicans.
Ferruge @ 68
It’s not that I think he’s irrelevant, it’s that he’s not reasonable. If this really is a signal to Congressional Republicans, it sure is mighty subtle. I just don’t suffer such indirectness and waffly talk on this topic after seeing the situation devolve as much as it has. Especially by people who are partly responsible for the drumbeating that got us into this mess in the first place but can’t own up to it.
___________________________________
Frankly, IMO, it’s not about his relevance (and he lacks all reason!), but his influence. And not on us, or even elected reps, D or R. It’s the tipping point in the MSM drumbeat.
It’s significant when someone like Broder starts tipping toward suggesting that Bush actually give an inch (Greg Sargent’s delightful take: “Shorter Bush to Congress: Please come to the White House so you can all take a long, hard look at my middle finger.”)
Folks around here grouse 24/7 about “the David Gregories” et al. Broder can influence that. “That Fred Hiatt,” as scarecrow points out, can influence that.
And all that MSM tipping fuels the work of Waxman, Reid, Pelosi, et al.
I’m in MN and last night’s local teevee news featured Coleman’s cranky letter to the outrageous new (and now nationally-infamous) MN US Atty, Rachel Paulose. This is the slide that happens thanks to the tipping of the Broders.
May it snowball into an avalanche.
Bush says the Democrats aren’t giving him enough time, after four years of war.
Bush says the Democrats’ cuts are going to mean extended tours of duty, when he has extended soldiers tours of duty beyond reason – even in the National Guard, which really has no business in Iraq.
Bush says the Democrats’ cuts mean that the soldiers will have to do without, when it’s well known the army doesn’t have the armor it’s requested.
Bush says that when he vetoes the emergency spending bill, it will be the Democrats fault, after four years of unquestioned spending on this war, which is costing a trillion dollars more than he said it would.
How can you negotiate with this? He’s living in a world of spin. He has no regard for the lives of anyone in Iraq. He’s totally mismanaged everything. He’s broken laws, which, if this war was to end, might get properly investigated. What difference would a compromise make anyway? He has nothing to gain by pulling troops out, and everything to lose.
The only way to deal with this situation is to impeach him, but I doubt it will happen.
Broder and Lieberman. I just love these hare-brains.
egregious – I agree on the term “withdraw.” My assumption is that Broder would know this is a third rail for conservatives, so he avoids that term. However, saying “American sacrifice is not worth it” is a powerful political statement, and logically leads to withdrawal. I’m trying to understand the import of the message here, and who might hear it, without embracing the messager. — e.g, Nola Sue’s comment at 86.
In addition to the revival of the “Iran weapons” canard, I’ve noticed that “some signs the surge is working” are being uncritically reported as the lead in to the stories about new and extended deployments. Sigh.
Corporate media: Violence being down in places where we have additional troops is not a sign the surge is working, it’s a sign that “daddy doesn’t hit mommy when the police come around.”
Bush’s idea of negotiation is “Give me what I want, and then we’ll negotiate.” This how he chooses to deal with the nation’s enemies – Iran, North Korea, Syria, etc. It is clear that, by wanting to “talk” to the Democrats, but not compromise, that he sees the Dems as enemies of the US.
thanks scarecrow — and i too, am in
the minority, insofar as i see signs
of BI-partisan efforts re denouncing
the bush/cheney/rove oligarchy. . .
or at least, furtive, then-withdrawn
attempts. . . i swear, on a stack of
anatomy of deceits(!), that one
early version of the new york times
story on this latest senate judiciary
letter to gonzales named none-other-
than ARLEN SPECTER, republican senator,
as one of the signers to the letter. . .
i swear, i saw it. really. i swear.
the “final” version is — of course — all
democrats, and wasn’t posted until late
last night, but had been reported upon
for most of the news-day by m.s.m.-ers. . .
go figure. . .
but i too am cautiously encouraged. . .
now — bring on friday the 13th!
Scarecrow @ 89
Eh, it’s pretty weak tea. It may be a signal, but it could just be noise. I’ll believe it is if we get further confirmation.
I see that John Emerson @ 36 thinks the Democrats should go with a short-term extension of the funding. I think 3-4 months is too short, because it takes so long to get things done in Congress, but I agree with the thinking.
Nola Sue @ 6:33 -
Thankee for the Sargent link; that middle finger quote is priceless.
Not OT by much- Juan Cole links this morning to Gary Kamiya’s Salon article on MSM toothless display in the run-up to the Iraq war. Cole comments:
“The sad thing is, I doubt the situation would be much different today. The information system in the US is corrupt. Many reporters I know in the corporate media deeply resent their bosses and editors, whom they often view as rightwing hacks.”
Kamiya- Why The Media Failed
Redshift @ 72
Scarecrow @
89
He’s encouraging Bush to threaten to pull out. Even Bush knows that if he did so, al Sadr would force al Maliki to accept. So, I think what’s being signalled is that Broder is suffering the early stages of Alzheimers.
Just look at the Broder commentary history for the past six years. And did Broder support the Bush attack on Iraq?
GeorgeSimian @ 74
I would add: Cheney turns over all the documents from his 2001 energy task force meetings…before he resigns.
Another reason to go with six months is that fear of losing an election may concentrate some Republican minds, and the next bill might actually withstand a veto. That way we would deal a mortal blow to Bushism, which might be good for Democrats in the election by dispiriting the Rs.
But regardless of the electoral prospects, we have to do the right thing, which is to try to get our people out of this immoral war.
Christy has a new post ready.
Get this. I want no compromises by my party with the Bush administration, on anything. No appeasement. No conciliation. No bi-partisian crap. I want to fight with the Bush boys and girls. The GOP looks at accommodation by the Democrats as weakness. Is there a way I can be more clear on this?
HH @ 9
nolo @ 92
I saw that also, although I can only swear on a single copy of AoD, not a whole stack …
Did they really change that story? And did Specter sign the letter? too much if they changed the story.
Oops what happened. HH@9
As fas as I understand, the multinationals get 80 (!!) percent of the profits. The law will be in place not for 10 or 15 years, but for generations. Garantueed to create a revolt down the road against this colonioal exploitation.
lee5 @ 105
my hunch — and it is only a
hunch — is that specter backed
out of being a signer when conyers
issued his supoena duces tecum yesterday.
i think that spooked specter.
but i have no way to really find out.
Scarecrow:
You’re underestimating Broder’s senescent self-infatuation. He imagines himself the arbiter of political moderation and must therefore always remain in the imaginary middle between the Republicans and the Vichy wing of the Democratic party. The Bush administration will inevitably tack even harder right and Broder will bob along behind, as always.
brendan @ 108
If you are right, it’s all the more reason to wonder about the signal. If he always tacked left, it wouldn’t have the same relevance.
Just a point of information, iirc, the Sunni’s leverage is that they control the water that the Shia depend on.
Thanks scarecrow for an as per usual great post.
OldCoastie @ 52
Polls report that 70% of Americans now believe that Iran posesses Nuclear weapons. The “cakewalk in Iraq” radicals began repeating this all over the MSM just after the invasion.
I heard Daniel Pipes, and Marc Reuel Gerecht on C-span repeating the unsubstantiated claims about Iran. Cheney repeated these claims on Russert’s MTP many months ago. Instead of asking Cheney “where in the hell is the irrefutable evidence to back up your claims about Iran’s “alleged” nuclear weapons program. Russert asked Cheney “how can we stop them” Ouch Russert that hardball question hurt.
Olmert has endlessly been making these claims, Kristol and Ledeen keep making these claims ever since the invasion.
Flynnt Leverett (New America Foundation) has been trying to provide a counter balance to the claims, but I don’t believe Matthews, Russert or any of the other big wigs have had him on.
You do not get 70% of Americans believing the unsubstantiated claims about Iran via osmosis. Chris Matthews and Diane Rehms have been asking the toughest questions about the claims being made about Iran’s “alleged” nuclear weapons program.
Many in the MSM still seem to be stuck in the “groupthink” mode. Deja Vu!
re the US Attorneys… I think it’s past time that we stop referring to the case as an issue strictly relating to the firing of prosecutors. Rather, it is a case of the White House attempting, and to a large part succeeding in corrupting the integrity of the Justice Dept. Instead of the “US Attorney scandal”, we should refer to it as “The Tainting of the DOJ scandal”, or something catchier. I’ll keep thinking about that. But this is not just about the careers of a few high-powered attorneys.
This is about subverting and perverting our entire justice system to the desires of a gang of crooks.
corry342 @ 78
There is nothing that says the Congress HAS to pass ANY funding request Bush submits — this is the power of the purse-strings.
What happens?
The possibilities are — Defense moves money from another spending category in its’ regular budget to fund keeping the troops in Iraq.
If they do that, something somewhere isn’t going to be funded, and anyone employed in that area is going to be furloughed.
Or, Defense does the logical thing, and starts bringing the troops home in defiance of Bush/Cheney’s wishes. (I find this extremely unlikely.)
When any Department in the Executive Branch runs out of money or is not funded at the beginning of a fiscal year, it closes, furloughs its’ employees, and waits until Congress funds it either by an appropriation bill or by a continuing resolution.
Who is Broder and why should I listen to him? Bob Costas and Howie Mandell probably have some advise for us to, if we agree to listen to them.
All joking aside, it sounds like Broder wants a solution that first & foremost saves face for Bush. He’s calling for submission by the Dem’s in Congress for no other reason than to keep the decision making in Bush’s hands. Give Bush what he wants so that he, not Congress, can declare terms for the pullout (which will be dubbed “benchmarks” rather than “timetable”).
All indications are that this thing will start winding down by the end of summer. Al-Malaki is irrelevant; oil rights are irrelevant; establishment of local governments & revision of the constitution are irrelevant. Bush has no leverage here or in Iraq. As a result, Broder’s doctrine is little more than a threat for Dem’s to cede control or Bush will hold his breath until his face turns blue.
Have at it George is my reply.
Being “War Czar” used to be the responsibilitiy of the President, his Sec’y of Defense, and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. Is Mr. Bush running from this responsibility too, while trying to outource it?
I am gobsmacked that Erik Prince hasn’t thrown himself and Blackwater into the ring. Maybe it’s not as profitable as substituting for soldiers. Or, maybe the whole point is to take the loot without being responsible for what happens next.
David Baerwald @ 112
agreed!
good on ya’!
“Washington”, certainly including David Broder, are a bunch of failing careerists who fashion their ideas around notions of personal self importance and advancement. Broder would never, in his mode, analyze the situation in Iraq from a fair perspective and then from that perspective analyze what is needed and then endure the intellectual pain of explaining what can and cannot be done in the context of having Bush and and his group running the country. Broder does a great disservice to this country running himself business as usual. And treating Bush as if he is some form of business as usal who can be dealt with in a business as usual approach. There is no systemic solution to Bush. He is the system’s biggest failure and it is obvious. Be glib and ask how did that creep ever got into Harvard Business School with a c- average from Yale? How did he have the fortune of running against Gore and Kerry?
twolf (my beloved url provider *g*) -
Caught that tidbit with the one ear that stays semi-tuned to the idiot box. Your article says he claims to be in remission. Well, break out the tinfoil box………. but doesn’t that imply that he has known about this for some time? Color me suspicious but maybe a question of Thompson getting the news *out there* before it gets leaked?
No compromise.
Let him veto the bill.
Don’t try to over-ride it. Just move on to other business. Let the clock run out on the money. And impose some goddamn tight message discipline. Make it clear that a)the supplemental was a sham–he could have put it in the regular budget and gotten it through his rubber stamp congress before November. This whole “supplemental” business is just dishonest monkeying with the books. the days when Bush could irresponsibly spend money are over, and b)it’s Bush failing to fund the troops. Congress met it’s responsibility. Bush’s veto is entirely his choice. He’s vetoing the will of the people. It’s not Congress’s fault for making him veto.
Two key points–GOP fiscal irresponsibility, GOP letting down our brave, brave troops. Repeat, repeat. And no compromise. And no veto over-ride. Make him beg for a new bill.
David Baerwald @ 112
I agree. Which is why I keep pushing “Justice-Gate.” Even though it enables the MSM’s addiction to “-gates”, it describes the depth of what’s been compromised: the very foundation of Justice in our country.
the attorney general scandal is being discussed on the Diane Rehms show right now. drshow@wamu.org. 1-800-433-8850
I agree with David @ 112. The Scandal at the DOJ is systemic. These eight USA’s are just the fish wriggling in the public net. Just as scandalous are the actions of sitting US Attorneys, such as those in Minnesota and Milwaukee, one incompetent, another who instigated political retribution.
More scandalous, still, is the de facto removal of qualified USA’s from their work by seconding them to Main Justice in order to prop up an unqualified Alberto Gonzales and avoid the need to publicly seek confirmations for new top staffers. This guts local offices and prevents them from regaining their footing, since the absent USA remains in charge. Gonzales, in any case, is really Cheney’s puppet, through his dependence on Addington and his former staff.
This all gets back to two things: the deservedly much talked about Rovian Math, and a less discussed, but co-equal need to leave behind a dysfunctional prosecutorial service when these gentlemen leave office.
No need to publicly “starve the beast” when you can take it into the barn and geld it instead. I should add that this is not about gelding one or two government “sheep”. Mr. Rove has been eyeing the entire herd.
The one consession that Bush could make is political: he has to renounce the war against those who disagree with him and admit, again and again publicly, so there is no going back, so everyone knows there is a change of heart: he needs our help.
Believe me, the change in the tone of the debate, maybe a smackdown of Cheney, every time he opens his fat mouth, that would do it. Otherwise, Democrats, and even Republicans should be loath to help much or concede anything.
Let’s see: an imperialist war of aggression to steal resources. . .Scarecrow, what have you been smoking lately? Heavier and heavier pressure upon their teeny heads, cutting off all chance of movement, would be good.
Intellectualizing can be good or bad: in this case, bad.
Redshift @ 72
All the while Americans keep their pedals to the metal, heads in the clouds, as hundreds of thousands of Iraqi people die, are injured and displaced.
How in the hell can we wonder why so many people around the world hate and fear us? Those Judeo/Christian values are deadly.
Anyone change their driving habits after the invasion?
Next hour on the Rehms show focused on breast cancer.
Did we ever get any of the Firedoglakers on Diane’’s show? Time to write and phone her again.
Scarecrow:
I don’t have any deep animus against Broder; he’s just another flack. But the point being made here is valid: should Congress engage? If they don’t, what then? (and I don’t mean, who pays for the bullets…) Probable motive for the WH: BushCo just wants them to lay their cards on the table so he can sort out his next move. Fine. Come with a plan, make it clear what the next five moves will be, and follow through.
Bag all this talk about scorched earth tactics. It’s emotionally satisfying but it’s not relevant and neither is Broder. Unless I’m mistaken, I think that’s your proposition.
I swear right wing radicals (Bill Kristol)are so excited by this Attorney General scandal, because they want this to spill over on the upcoming June 5th A*I*P*A*C /Rosen espionage trial.
I really think they want to take out Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty. A wicked chess game.
“Atty. Gen. Alberto R. Gonzales convened a meeting to discuss firing a group of U.S. attorneys 10 days before they were terminated, according to Justice Department documents released Friday night that could indicate Gonzales was more involved in the process than he has said previously.
The documents show that Gonzales and a group of senior aides, including Deputy Atty. Gen. Paul J. McNulty, met Nov. 27, to review a plan for firing the prosecutors. The dismissals were carried out Dec. 7.”
Broder is hearkening back to what I assume were his days as a parent trying to craft an appropriate incentive for an errant child where the parent says to the child “You won’t get your allowance until you do your chores.” Here, he seems to suggest that Congress should say to Shrub “We will not continue to provide you with funds for an open ended war. You tell us what milestones you see as necessary to reach a political resolution of the Iraq conflict and when those milestones are achievable, and that is what we will condition continued funding on.” This would not be a surrender on the part of Congress, but would rather inject the adult element into the equation that is currently gone walkabout.
They can not be serious about Chertoff for AG.
http://www.politico.com/news/s…../3202.html
In the above article
“Republican sources also disclosed that it is now a virtual certainty that Deputy Attorney General Paul J. McNulty, whose incomplete and inaccurate congressional testimony about the prosecutors helped precipitate the crisis, will also resign shortly. Officials were debating whether Gonzales and McNulty should depart at the same time or whether McNulty should go a day or two after Gonzales. Still known as “The Judge” for his service on the Texas Supreme Court.
Clouds for Mc Nulty. Clouds over the A*I*P*A*C espionage trial
Kate O’beirne at National Review
“Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty, ignored White House Counsel Harriet Miers and senior lawyers in the Justice Department when he told the committee last month of specific reasons why the administration fired seven U.S. attorneys — and appeared to acknowledge for the first time that politics was behind one dismissal. McNulty’s testimony directly conflicted with the approach Miers advised, according to an unreleased internal White House e-mail described to ABC News. According to that e-mail, sources said, Miers said the administration should take the firm position that it would not comment on personnel issues.”
cleter @ 119
man that is one excellant post
when he brings it up they can just say;
“we gave you more funding then you asked for and you refused to support our troops
if you want us to resubmit the bill we have a few additional benchmarks you need to sign off on which will be included in the bill
let us know when you are ready to fund our boys and girls in Iraq”
very very nice
McNulty’s testimony
http://www.usdoj.gov/dag/testi…..0206_1.htm
Brodent is just running a smoke-screen IMO, and is still a daft believer.
Until the cretins get that we are running a Failed OCCUPATION and that the American people are going to turn on them, we have to keep on hammering.
Perris @ 34 — Great, I hope you sent it to Ms Pelosi.
She must also, at last, be thinking quite a bit about her previous loyalties.
kathleen @
129
Why not, Kathleen? Like Lieberman he is a dual National — Israeli snd American.
Sad to say, the death and maiming of thousands of soldiers is a second-order problem. The war will continue until the constitution and the rule of law is restored. The continuing sacrifice of the service men and women might serve to discredit this regime so completely that this kind of catastrophic societal breakdown never happens again. In all other respects, the carnage is a sunk cost, unavoidable and irrelevant.
When I started to think that Pat Buchanan was in the middle on issues, I knew the pendulum had swung so far right it could no longer be seen.
http://www.usdoj.gov/dag/testi…..0206_1.htm
OOps sorry here is Pat’s latest.
http://www.informationclearing…..e17508.htm
CHS, BTW, I have always thought it was James Coburn who stuck the pinto the corpse, or was he the one with the mirror to check for breath?
Why do we keep trying to work out some sort of compromise with Mr Bush?
He lied, is still lying and is actively engaged in the cover-up of those lies.
No Deals, Let him Veto.
Re;
‘From the start, Democrats ought to concede one big point: Absent any readiness on their part to cut off funds to the troops in Iraq, those forces will be there as long as George Bush wants them to remain.’
George Bush is not really a King, he just thinks he is..
Is it pure coincidence that the photo of Broder looks an awful lot like Mr. Burns?
Deeply EPU’ed but I have to agree with the Broder skeptics. There are so many things wrong with this purported “compromise”.
First and foremost, we have to remember that Bush is the worst President in our history. This isn’t business as usual political compromise. It isn’t “Oh, if Bush would just be reasonable for once, things would work out.” Bush is never reasonable. That is and has been the problem for 6 long disastrous years. Compromise in Bush’s mind is you give him what he wants and he doesn’t thank you for it.
So Broder’s compromise is worthless. It’s just a way for Democrats to become further complicit in Bush’s failure in Iraq.
And it’s nothing new. The idea that benchmarks without a credible threat of American withdrawal mean nothing has been around for a while. The Iraqis know this. The Iraq Study Group knew this. Murtha way back when knew it. Everyone also knows that Bush means to stay in Iraq to the end of his Presidency and run out the clock, so benchmarks as even the inveterate Bush apologist David Broder knows mean nothing.
What Broder is proposing is a figleaf as substantial as the emperor’s new clothes. Broder in my eyes has zero credibility.
scarecrow, as you may remember, I was always shooting off my mouth about the Dean about two years ago. Not in a bad way, but from a defensive crouch.
I know David and his family as family friends from waaaaay back. I’ve never liked David’s politics, never read his columns on a regular basis but adore both him and his wife, whom I’ve known since my early teens. It’s just. so. sad. for me to see him “this way”, past his time but seemingly oblivious. He’s been pretty ill for a couple of years now. I hate to see him go out a has-been. Breaks my heart that I agree with almost everything (xcept the most harsh assessments) I read about him these days.
Namaste.
Two Points Must Be Made on This “Veto” Threat, and Broder’s compromise fantasy:
No. 1: Ranking Republicans to meet with Bush to try to get him to back down from a veto, to “compromise” ala Broder:
April 09, 2007
Gilchrest Seeking White House Deal on Iraq
http://www.politico.com/blogs/….._Iraq.html
A diverse collection of House Republicans has formed an ad hoc group to negotiate with the White House on a compromise Iraq spending bill, Politico’s Ryan Grim reports. The group plans to hold talks with National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley, who has been working behind the scenes to cement opposition among Republicans to the spending bill that would require U.S. troops to withdraw from Iraq at some point.
The group includes five Republicans, diverse in geography and ideology: Reps. Pete Hoekstra of Michigan, Charles Boustany of Louisiana, Jeff Fortenberry of Nebraska, Mac Thornberry of Texas and Wayne Gilchrest of Maryland. Of the five, only Gilchrest broke with his party to support a timeline for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq.
Now, Gilchrest says the group will encourage the White House to compromise on negotiations with Syria and Iran and on setting a date for withdrawal from Iraq. And the group has national security bona fides that will help it be taken seriously.
Hoekstra is a former chairman of the House Intelligence Committee and is now its ranking Republican. Thornberry is the top Republican on the Armed Services Committee’s terrorism subcommittee. And Gilchrest is one of few decorated combat veterans in the House.
The GOP negotiating team’s argument will start with Gen. David Petraeus’ public assertion that the war in Iraq cannot be won militarily but requires a comprehensive political solution. Part of that includes letting Iraq know the American commitment isn’t open-ended, Gilchrest said. [snip]
No. 2) Polls Show majority support Democrats withholding Funding if Bush Vetoes the bill:
The LA Times poll finds that if President Bush vetoes the Dems’ bill attaching a withdrawal date to troop funding, more Americans by a very slim margin want Congress to refuse to send the President another bill without withdrawal timetables than want Congress to give him the no-strings-attached bill that he’s insisting on.
Here’s the poll question as asked:
Q: If George W. Bush vetoes the legislation, do you think Congress should pass another version of the bill that provides funding for the war without any conditions for troop withdrawal, or should Congress refuse to pass any funding bill until Bush agrees to accept conditions for withdrawal?
Fund the war without conditions: 43%
Withhold funding until Bush signs: 45%
Don’t know: 12%
Oh, and relatedly, the LA Times poll also finds that 48% want Bush to sign the bill, while only 43% want him to veto it.
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/el…..ce_of_veto
More from General Sheehan (see bottom of original post):
here’s the link again (WaPo)
STTP in Ohio @
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I thought there was already a WAR CZAR…called the Commander-In-Chief…if Bush can’t get the Pentagon and Condy to operate together then he is out of control in his own White House.
I see this idea as merely creating someone to do the job of the President (once done by Cheney) and that Bush wants a flunky to blame for his failures. Everyone can see that this is what that UNCONSTITUTIONAL fabricated position represents. It’s a way for Bush to blame someone else, thus no one wants to do it.
The “Czar” would simply be trying to implement Bush’s policies…something that, presumably, Condy and Rummy (now Gates) were supposed to be doing all along. Are they not doing Bush’s bidding? Why are they still in their jobs if they aren’t? Or maybe THEY ARE…and its the policy that is the utter failure.
Creating this Czardos position simply adds another stage of incompetance.
Lee @
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HERE’s THE FRICKEN COMPROMISE THEY SHOULD OFFER!
Tax increases on the Top 10% of the population, substantial tax increases on corporations and executives of such that have reaped windfall benefits from US Military Contracts. Tax oil companies.
Pay as you go for the Iraq deployment. No putting this burden into the deficit.
Fund the troops but don’t make all the sacrifice fall on the average taxpayer and their progeny while the profiteers sacrifice nothing. I would think that they have profitted enough from the taxpayers contributions.
Offer him THAT as a compromise…give him his perpetual war…but make those who are getting ever richer from it really make a sacrifice. I bet that Bush suddenly sees a timetable as not so unreasonable!
Dont attempt an override. Simply create a more restrictive bill and send it up. Bush will have to choose to leave the troops stranded or bring them home … or accept the bill. If he chooses to leave them stranded Congress can pay for one way tickets home for all Americans that want them. Screw Iraq. They can kill each other if they so choose. We then rebuild our military and start thinking about an end game in the middle east BS that has been going on for 50 years.
If it were a year ago, I might have agreed with you. But now there really is no reason to continue with this war. It’s obvious we’re just getting slaughtered, the Iraqis can’t even pretend we’re welcome with a straight face, and we just had an election a few months ago which made it clear where the American public stands. Putting more money into a losing cause justs drags it out and means more Americans will die. If Bush vetoes the bill, Congress should simply not pass another bill. Bush will run out of money all the sooner and have to bring the troops home, which is what everyone wants him to do.
You said
“Knowing that the Bush/Regime has declared itself adamantly opposed to compromise on Iraq, our side has been quick to warn the Democrats against accepting the President’s empty invitation to talk and dissing Broder’s suggestion as naive at best and advocating unilateral capitulation by the Democrats at worst.”
Ummm. Bush/Regime is ADAMANTLY OPPOSED to compromise but nevertheless offers invitation to talk.
If you assume that his invitation is empty without accepting his invitation and actually find out for sure, I can’t see any reason not to asume that your characterisation of his postion as being ADAMANTLY OPPOSED to compromise is equally empty.
8bEbgcBBi @
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The characterizations of the President’s position on compromise came from the White House, through statements of the President that he will not yield on any withdrawal conditions, and confirmations from statements by Deputy Press Secretary Perino. They have also said that the purpose of the meetings is to convince the Democrats to accept Bush’ position, not to discuss compromise. You don’t have to believe me; just read the stories and watch the videos.
If, however, the WH is truly open to compromise, they don’t seem to be very good at conveying that message. All it would take is a phone call or a less defiant statement by Perino or any prominent WH official.