(Photo via McAuliflower. Love this perspective and that blue and white bowl.)
In corporate America, keeping two sets of books — one public, one private – can send you to jail. Which makes this all the more interesting:
When Karl Rove and his top deputies arrived at the White House in 2001, the Republican National Committee provided them with laptop computers and other communication devices to be used alongside their government-issued equipment….
Democrats say evidence suggests the RNC e-mail system was used for political and government policy matters in violation of federal record preservation and disclosure rules.
In addition, Democrats point to a handful of e-mails obtained through ongoing inquiries suggesting the system may have been used to conceal such activities as contacts with lobbyist Jack Abramoff, who was convicted on bribery charges and is now in prison for fraud….
Some Republicans believe that the huge number of e-mails — many written hastily, with no thought that they might become public — may contain more detailed and unguarded inside information about the administration's far-flung political activities than has previously been available.
"There is concern about what may be in these e-mails," said one GOP activist who asked not to be identified because of the sensitivity of the subject.
"The system was created with the best intentions," said former Assistant White House Press Secretary Adam Levine, who was assigned an RNC laptop and BlackBerry when he worked at the White House in 2002. But, he added, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." (emphasis mine)
Suddenly, that question about why Matt Cooper's phone call wasn't logged into the official White House phone log rears up in my mind. Was there a second set of books for phone calls on an RNC-paid-for phone line, too? And that e-mail to Hadley that was found only at the last minute, was that a GWB43.com e-mail? We've all been asking about this the last few weeks, but isn't it time we started getting some answers about it? And all the Susan Ralston-Jack Abramoff contacts? And calls? And…well, the list goes on and on and on, doesn't it?
But here's a hint for Rep. Waxman and his committee:
Some Republican activists say the e-mail request will not create great difficulty for the White House because nothing nefarious happened and because the RNC automatically purges some e-mails after 30 days. (emphasis mine)
"Some" e-mails are purged? Only "some?" Not all e-mails, but only "some," eh? Exactly who determines this "some e-mails" quotient for the RNC? Is it anything from the White House that might be questionable legally? Anything we wouldn't want the public to see? Things that might be in violation of the Presidential Records Act? How is it automatic that only some, and not all, e-mails are purged? Who made that determination? And why?
Get your investigators to make a duplicate copy of the RNC servers on which these e-mails have been stored. Pronto. Have it done forensically, by the white collar crime folks at the FBI. They may say they purge "some" e-mails every 30 days, but there are likely still a large number of "some" of them there and recoverable…a large number of them…and I smell a big, fat, Turdblossom-reeking cover-up in the making.
(H/T to reader "WB" for the link to the LATimes story.)
UPDATE: Paul Kiel at The Muck has some thoughts on this as well, including this choice nugget:
Rove's habits are instructional. Rove, remember, has a White House address — as well as an RNC-issued blackberry and laptop. But according to a former White House official quoted in National Journal, Rove "does ‘about 95 percent’ of his e-mailing using his RNC-based account." (emphasis mine)
Is it me, or does Karl have some 'splaining to do?
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ZED?
Mornin’ Christy and all
Christy!
Are there any public hearings this week?
Yikes!
RNC-our shadow government?
Morning, Christy! The sun is shining!
If there’s slime, Turd Blossom is going to be smackdab in the middle of it. Oh, this man is evil.
I blame Pat Robertson!
The “Bulimic” RNC, they binge and purge at will. It’s time to cure them of that malady.
Good morning Christy! et al!
Sunny and 40’s on Cape Cod this morning.
Purges “some” e-mails? If a system has an automatic “purge after 30 days” protocol, it should purge anything that hasn’t been saved on someone’s hard drive.
It’s possible that the Goopers were simply referring to the possibility that some e-mails have saved by the sender or recipient, and therefore would still be recoverable.
But here is another question: hasn’t Waxman already indicated that he may subpoena the e-mails on the RNC servers? Because if he has, the RNC arguably has an obligation to halt any automatic purge that would otherwise be scheduled to take place, just as they do once a subpoena has been served. You can’t destroy data that you have reason to anticipate will be subpoenaed in the near future.
The Repugs clearly saw the Bush Presidency as a way of filling their pockets with money and selling off the Government piece by piece. When Bush’s power was wavering, they went into Iraq and sold that off too.
What’s amazing is how they got away with it. They still haven’t paid any real price.
Diamonds and e-mails are forever.
Just ask your jeweler or dissolution attorney.
Senate DoJ budget hearing for the 12th cancelled, house still off this week, don’t know of anything else until the 17th.rxbusa @ 4
litigatormom @ 10
Of course, you can’t use a second set of electronics to evade legally mandated record keeping at the White House, either.
An e-mail, like a diamond, is forever. It is my understanding that if it went out on the internet, it is stored on multiple system routers and ISP servers with redundancy back-ups.
litigatormom @ 10
SInce when do they give two hoots about the law or subpoenas? Just ask them, they are above the law and have stacked the DOJ and courts so that they have plenty of “get out of jail free” cards.
It is going to take herculean effort to restore the rule of law and justice to this country. I may not live to see it at this rate.
and the hard drive of every since RNC lap top used in the whitehouse.
They have all said that they’re not going to give anything up.
Gonzo is going to testify and then it’s all going to go away.
Every email can be recovered. Every email.
Every email should be recovered.
Every crime should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law the Bush-Rove crowd mocks. Only then will the integrity of our democracy be restored.
Morning all. Sunshine, indeed.
My brain spins when I try to think about how horrible things can go in 6 years..
Let me look at Megan Fox. Ah yes. That helps. :)
Maybe the RNC and the criminals that associate with it should invest in some SPF40.
Good morning all. Christy, you rock.
Waxman gives every appearance of having his ducks in a row, and having a much deeper understanding of the significance of the gwb43 stuff than he’s letting on.
Having said that, I sure hope he follows your advice. Perhaps he’s waiting to get enough public info to show “probable cause,” ’cause we all know the RNC is going to cry “gestapo.”
Hello Jane:
With much love.
litigatormom @ 10
I don’t understand the security protocols at work here. In some contracts I’ve seen with security conscious firms, they are pretty strict. These go so far as to prohibit the use of mobile phones with cameras in them within the facilities covered under the contract.
In the White House, it sounds like people can carry in unsecured equipment, and carry it out again. One would assume that any network in the White House could not be accessed by unsecured equipment, but having any equipment that could talk to public networks sounds odd.
Maybe having a certain level of security clearance gives you more leeway?
Mail purging software is goofy. I’ve got lots of options… E-mails not viewed within n days. E-mails n days old. 30 days is a very short period for automatic e-mail purge.
You absolutely want to get the servers and more importantly, any backups and/or archives. The user may also have some control over the document retention periods. Eg. RNC could have a default of 30 days, unless changed by the user.
Backups and archives…
old gold @ 12
Or, in other words,
There must be a lot of action around the White House these days- hushed meetings, shredding, deletion, tears of fear and panic as the walls begin to crack.
Titanic, hell, more like Pompeii. This should be a blockbuster of viewing entertainment, especially if the main characters Jimmy Jones at the end.
I’m concerned that the subpoena for the RNC server hasnt been issued yet. Time’s a-wastin’, and disks are a shreddin’.
OT–but related:
Gonzo needs to do more homework:
Ahem. Would that be W’s FBI? What makes you think that most of the competent staff at the FBI (and there were huge questions about FBI competence before W got his mitts on it) hasn’t fled like in all other branches of federal goverment that we’ve examined?
If there was nothing to hide, they’d give up the emails. That’s true in this scandal and the other Gonzo mess. This makes the missing minutes on the Nixon tapes look tiny.
We need to impeach these guys. There’s no other way to get all this information.
“Get your investigators to make a duplicate copy of the RNC servers on which these e-mails have been stored. Pronto.”
Understatement of the year.
“The system was created with the best intentions.” Richard Nixon, WH Press Conference, 1973.
drowsy @ 26
the whole thing does seem very strange.. do we actually have any national security protocols operational within the whitehouse? wtf is going on?
I was under the impression Patrick Fitzgerald was aware of these RNC email possibilities and alluded to them, but (I assume) he did not investigate them. Is that true? Or did he in fact gain access to the RNC email traffic? And if he did, then how did he do it and why not tell Waxman about his experiences?
yellowdogD @
13
Thanks. Plenty to stew over without it.
EvilDrPuma’s link from last night still has me sputtering.
I want someone to sit him down and say, “George, hon. You don’t have to pray for peace. You can make it happen all by yourself. Bring the goddam troops home! Now!”
and Wigwam’s link from late last night looks like the Unified Field Theory of Republican Fuckery.
Nope. No problem keeping the adrenalin up, hearings or no.
eCAHN at 32 — You ever work with the white collar crime guys at the FBI? I have. And I am here to tell you that those guys loathe and despise people who try to cheat the system. Plus, I’ve seen them pull kiddie porn off a hard drive that some skeeze ball tried to burn (as in with fire). After all of his years of dealing with corruption investigations in DC, I am certain that Henry Waxman knows who he can count on to be honest and respect the law. There are a lot of FBI agents and other law enforcement folks out there who do that every single day in their jobs — don’t ever confuse the political hacks with the real deal.
Seems like the whole rest of the world knows what’s going on inside the U.S. government. The only mushrooms who don’t know is U.S. voters.
Takes me back to Watergate days.
Sounds like Butterfield’s surprise testimony regarding existence of Nixon’s tapes.
dude at 37 — We don’t know, because that information was only alluded to and not fully detailed in any public document. The bulk of that information is, presumably, still under grand jury seal. But it certainly might be obtainable for other investigative purposes under a rule 6(e)(3) request as looseheadprop has discussed previously, should someone want to follow-up on that properly. Hint hint.
drowsy @ 26 makes a really good point. Heck, we have clients in the household products industry who refuse to give us internet access while on site for “security” reasons (might give away proprietary secrets, ya know…).
You mean to tell me that the White House lets these people run around with all this “unofficial equipment” and communicate with heck-knows-who about who-knows-what? That’s secure? We’re talking about National Security here.
Can they use this “unofficial equipment” if they have the right clearance? Or does the right clearance “buy” them the right to have their “unofficial equipment” checked by the FBI/NSA????
Christy Hardin Smith @ 39
Happy to hear it. One lesson I’ve learned in the last 6 years is that you can’t be too cynical. But there have been questions about FBI competence in some areas–their own computer system being at the top of the list.
eCAHN at 44 — The FBI computer system issues are due to a farm-out of the contract to outside vendors who were working independent of other outside vendors who were working on another aspect of the system which ended up being incompatible and riddled with cost overruns. Welcome to the wonderful world of contracting things out to your cronies. The internal e-mail system, among other things, sucks. But that has nothing to do with the forensic capabilities of the investigative units.
CHS @ 45
WANS (We are not surprised)
Didn’t know that. Thanks.
I just want to say, this is a very interesting article, about how AG wants legislation to force ISPs to retain data that might be subject to court subpoena.
Hmm, some interesting nuggets.
Mornin, pups.
Back from the Christian fasts and feasts.
How can these guys make such colossal mistakes? Did they really think there would never be any Democrats in a position to subpoena them? They must have believed there would never be any USAs who would investigate them.
Nice to see you can take the prosecutor out of the courts, but you can’t take the courts out of the prosecutor. Good post, Christy!!
Biodun @ 31
Biodun -
My smell meter isn’t nearly as finely tuned as those of many other firepups but this one set even mine to pinging. The thugs surely
releasedleaked this little jewel; the question being….. why?Would enjoy hearing reactions from fellow fdlers……….
Wigwam’s link from late last night looks like the Unified Field Theory of Republican Fuckery.
That is pretty phenomenal.
Here’s hoping the media comes along for that particular ride. While we’re at it, here’s hoping that the RNC email servers provide that “new evidence” that Fitz needed to pursue broader charges. I know, I know. Fitzmas comes but once a year.
Dontcha just LOVE the smell of bacon frying?
with bushco the lies grow quick
ya, there are usually “ghost” images left on hardrives even after the info is deleted, however there is a myth…yes, you can make data iretrievable, even to the govenrment…though people are told you can’t, in fact you can
if a hardrive is “scrubbed” something anyone can do with an every day program, it is not likely even the most sophisticated forensic techniuques will be able to recover that data
scrubbing involves overwriting the data first with 0’s, then with 1’s, then with random and repeated 3 times…obviously you can repeat that as many times as you like to get more and more security but it’s pretty impossible to retrieve scrubbed data that goes throught that protocol just three times
now, here’s where it gets tricky;
when a file is stored on a hard rive, that data can be everywhere and anywhere in fragments, the computer recognizes the data and pieces them together to show you a contiguous file when you access it
in other words, even if you think you’ve “scrubbed” a file, if that file is not on it’s own partition then scrubbing doesn’t get to some of the data
a little sophisticated but here’s what I’m saying;
if they stored their emails on their own partition and “scrubbed” that partition every so often, that data is not retrievable
are they that aware?
well, before I found out how inept they are I would have thought there was no way we’d be able to retrieve that data
but now I think they can
but
just because the data wasn’t properly “scrubbed” doesn’t mean it’s retrievable
if the area that data was written continues to be written and overwritten as the write and delete new information, very little of the data is retrievable
some however will be recoverable
I don’t know how clear I just explained that but there it is
GeorgeSimian @
11
Yet. Tic-toc.
Biodun@31
I read that article. Gonzo is prohibited from speaking with just about anyone else that knows the circumstances of the purgings, due to ongoing investigation. The article said he kept contradicting himself and getting the timelines wrong. The 17th is going to be FUN.
Meanwhile- back at the feet of sweet mother justice:
“An article appearing in this week’s edition of Newsweek suggests that Attorney General Alberto Gonzales is struggling in preparatory sessions for his appearance before the Senate Judiciary Committee on Thursday.
Michael Isikoff in Newsweek’s Periscope column this week says that Gonzales performed poorly in initial preparation sessions for his testimony.
“Gonzales kept contradicting himself and ‘getting his timeline confused,’ said one participant who asked not to be identified,” Isikoff reports.
He also notes, “His advisers finally got ‘exasperated’ with him, the source added.”
Justice Department staff were nervous according to Isikoff, and had canceled all public appearances scheduled for this week.
Isikoff also describes Gonzales as increasingly isolated.
“The department is in a state of paralysis,” said one “frustrated senior administration “
Raw Story
Updated above, gang. A new nugget from Paul Kiel at The Muck which is quite juicy.
Biodun @ 31
This is Rove Rule number 36, from his book of how to manupulate voters and con the media: play down expectations, then claim massive success.
Christy,
Wouldn’t this revelation about RNC e-mails allow Fitz to go back to the grand jury to seek perjury charges against Rove and others who failed to reveal the existence of these communications; or was the grand jury request specifically for WH communications a loophole?
I watch “Forensic Files” on Court TV, and it is amazing what they can get off of hard drives.
Do it, Waxman!
Biodun @ 31
Are they setting up an “Alzheimers Defense”?
“I don’t give a shit what happens. I want you all to stonewall it, let them plead the Fifth Amendment, cover up or anything else, if it’ll save it—save this plan. That’s the whole point. We’re going to protect our people if we can.”
Is there anyone with better web skills than mine who can find an audio link to this old Nixon quote from the White House tapes?
I think circulating the sound of Nixon’s voice through the tubes of the Internets right now could be useful.
Organic George at 59 — If, indeed, they did fail to disclose that information and if it was material to the investigation, then it could re-open some of those questions. But only the investigative team knows the answer to that because so much of the case is stil under grand jury seal at this point.
RevDeb @
16
I’ve been fretting about the likelihood of them turning over emails for awhile now. Since the light has been finally dragged over to this issue, I’m starting to think that there are enough fed IT people out there who a) want keep their job and/or b) want to stay out of prison enough that they’ll make sure enough emails are turned over.
perris @ 7:15 -
[snip]
well, before I found out how inept they are I would have thought there was no way we’d be able to retrieve that data [snip]
Let’s all cross our fingers/pray/whatever each does that the incompetency level extends into the data retention arena.
P.S. Even on an old-fashioned floppy disk that a crook cut up with pinking shears!
Christy Hardin Smith @
39
There are ways to scrub hard drives – by formatting them over 30 times with certain character sequences, also very powerful magnets (the computers on the spy plane that got downed in China). Of course, someone would have to intentionally do such a thing.
One of the main problems with deleting e-mails is – people forward, reply, expand the list of people on the e-mail while retaining the history. So there can be bread crumbs on lots of different servers (backups, archives). So it’s a dicey business purging – you can purge the servers YOU control. But you’re never sure of how far your e-mail traveled.
eCAHNomics @
40
That’s folk kept in the dark and fed dung?
Pat_AlexVA @ 47
And that was exactly the point to the Presidential Records Act, except that presidential records are required to be preserved in perpetuity, which, at today’s prices for storage, costs almost nothing.
do any of you firedogs remember this guy ?
jukebox grad to the Waxman Courtesy Phone please . . .
this dirty hippie does this ‘for fun’, imagine what a seasoned digital forensics person on Henry’s staff can do
Waccamaw at 49–I think the key word is “exasperated”. Bush has obviously sent word that Fredo has to be protected, and everyone is scrambling to do so. Unfortunately, Fredo is too dense to help himself, even when he’s given a script to read from. The plan was clearly to send Fredo to Congress with another load of bullshit that was supposed to magically clear up all of his (and everyone else’s) previous ‘misstatements’. The problem is that it’s so much bullshit that Fredo can’t remember it all, and even his own aides are able to trip him up in rehearsals. If he flubs another Congressional appearance, it’s just going to make things worse. Furthermore, it’s going to put all of the people who prepped him in legal jeopardy. Those people are now basically saying, “This isn’t going to work. We need to try something else.”
56 rwcole says:
April 9th, 2007 at 7:18 am
An article appearing in this week’s edition of Newsweek suggests that Attorney General Alberto Gonzales is struggling in preparatory sessions for his appearance before the Senate Judiciary Committee on Thursday.
Reminds me of the West Wing episode where Leo engineered a “leak” that his own prep for the Vice-presidential debate was going so badly that they were considering cancelling – then he went out and cleaned the other guy’s clock.
Lowering expectations.
If the RNC has an written records management policy that states that all emails 30 days or older will purged except under certain circumstances they are in the clear. If it can be shown that they selectively purged some emails, but left the rest in place, then they could be looking at trouble.
Also, just because the emails have been purged does not mean they could not be retrieved. Say hello to evidence recovery.
Frank Probst @ 71
OR
they are leaking that he isn’t prepared when in fact he is prepared
Waccamaw @ 49:
Yeah it was leaked. I don’t always trust Isikoff but he has his deep sources…And yes, you always have to wonder about the source’s motives…
perris @ 74
That assumes a level of competence that I’ve not seen evidence for.
Perris at 53: Even though the hard drive(s) have been scrubbed, it went out onto a public network, and there are all kinds of laptops, routers and multiple backup systems out there, so I have no doubt that the FBI forensics people can recover much of the data. Having once been a systerm administrator, I am quite sure of that.
The part I have no idea about is how does Waxman get the legal authority to sick the FBI forensics people on to this. There is more to it than subpoena power, but I don’t know anything about the details. Any legal opinions on this?
Still time for a Rove “frogmarch”. Follow all of the Bush administration official e-mails gwb43.
GO PELOSI, WAXMAN, LEAHY, FITZ, MCNULTY.
Too bad it takes investigating lies told under oath about a B. J. for the previous Republican controlled congress to take their responsiblity of congressional oversight seriously. Says a great deal about their priorities.
Frank Probst @ 71
Gonzo will resign before he has to appear before Congress. The acting AG will then appear as scheduled and claim to be unable to answer many questions because of his/her newness. There will then be a long process to find another AG.
Bush will harvest brush at his brush ranch.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 39
And here is the shining example of what Karl Rove has done to us We all now have legitimate reason to doubt any and all departments of the Government. I absolutely detest that we cannot trust our own Government. I understand and agree with your defense of the FBI, Christy, But Karl is responsible for this doubt creeping in. Given the testimony over the last month we’d be foolish NOT to ask the question.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 57
CHS -
Just refreshed several times but don’t see the update in your post.
In some cases, as Samuel Johnson noted, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. However, in most cases, and in all cases Rove is involved in, their are alternate routes to the Devil’s den.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 42
Christy, do you think there is any merit in lay people (like myself) contacting Waxman’s office asking him to try to access the grand jury info from the Libby trial under the 6(e)(3) rule to see if Fitz has any pertinent info on the RNC email servers? Or do you think Waxman is already doing that — and it would be a waste of our time to pursue?
I’m sure these emails are a gold mine and it’s hard to sit back and wait to see if Waxman or the FBI are doing what needs to be done to confiscate the materials needed for a thorough investigation.
One gooper presidential wannabe is out tryin to convince the snake handlers that just cause he wears funny underwear and worships every opinion of the president of his church- doesn’t mean that he’s any different from a garden variety southern baptist- they ain’t buyin it “CULT, CULT” they scream.
Another gooper wannabe is tryin to splain how he mispoke when he said that goin to the market in Iraq is just the same as goin ta the market in Phoenix, Arizona- ceptin fer the 100s of troops and helicopters ya gotta take with ya…
And the THIRD wannabe is tryin to splain how his fourteenth wife is so much smarter than all the others that she should lead cabinet meetings..
All in all, it ain’t goin well.
Waccamaw @ 81
Lookd for the UPDATE: at the top of this page.
dude @ 37
If Fitzgerald knew that there were ongoing attempts to evade government retention of materials or violate the Hatch Act in any number of ways and he did not follow up on the violations himself or report them to whoever needed to know to investigate and prosecute the violations more thoroughly, I would think that would be a violation of his oath of office and his responsibility to the public. It is important to keep government clean. I still want to know who is responsible for enforcement of SF-312. If that’s enforceable by a USA, then Fitz should have charged those responsible for the violations that seem so obvious.
My mind keeps going back to those episodes in West Wing when the characters had to make political phone calls, and they had cell phones etc., but they left the premises of the WH and the government to make the calls, regardless of the weather. I remember the one where Donna took Josh’s coat and phone and went to call someone in NH to encourage them to vote for Bartlett. I remember other times when political phone calls were discussed either for fund raising or for a thank you for political donations, and each time they said they can’t do them from the office. All of these people had cell phones. Even our fictional characters comply with the law of the land better than Repuglic party members do in real life!
Frank Probst @
76
Well, it’s an Isikoff article, so it’s alway always advised to consider it possible disinformation and/or spin.
Frank Probst @ 76
do you remember abu torutre tried to get them to move up the hearing?
and now all of a sudden they are saying he is not ready?
red light…this looks like they are baiting them into moving the hearing up
probably because they think some information is about to become available and they want abu’s testimony out of the way
Wonder if Fitzy was aware of the two e-mail system puzzle–if not- and if the White House only gave him partial discovery- he might be back in business.
Christy Hardin Smith @
42
Christy, I’m not really “up” on the intracacies of grand jury testimony & secrecy rules. But if, during testimony to the GJ, Crook 1 provides info about some dastardly deeds that Crooks 2-6 did, is the Special Prosecutor forever prohibited from releasing that info due to rules relating to Grand Jury testimony?
Does Rule (6)(e) relate to the circumstances under which GJ testimony can be released?
When said “Special Prosecutor” was getting testimony from Crook 1, he might not have even known about the crimes of Crooks 2-6. Might have needed additional info to come to light after end of GJ to realize there were other crimes committed. E.g., the USA purges, the not saving records, etc.
I’m just wondering how this works.
My prediction is that Gonzo flunks on April 17. He’s already perjured himself before Congress. Even if he were to reincarnate himself as Clarence Darrow, he couldn’t get himself out of this one.
Ok, looks like the magnet option is out, unless someone got the disks to a government super magnet.
Why is everyone assuming that Fitz doesn’t already have some, if not all, of the gwb43 e-mails? Remember how he told Libby that he knew there were e-mails outside the White House system? Wasn’t he very clear in saying that he was not aware of any e-mails that were exculpatory to Libby? That’s a lot different from saying that there were no e-mails that involved Libby at all isn’t it? Libby’s trial opened with Team Libby trying to blame the whole thing on Karl. Then they didn’t call Karl. Fitz mentioned a key e-mail in his opening that was never presented at trial. We still haven’t seen it. I suspect that part of the reason Libby’s defense collapsed is that when Fitz handed over everything he had on Rove and Cheney, Team Libby knew that either one of them would make Libby look more guilty of the crimes he was charged with (lying and obstruction) than he already looked.
87emptywheel says
April 9th, 2007 at 7:35 am
Well, it’s an Isikoff article, so it’s alway always advised to consider it possible disinformation and/or spin.
And you cannot totally dismiss the idea that, yeah, Abu really *is* that dim.
When does scoots get sentenced? Seems like it’s been a long time!
How secure is the RNC system?
Is it as good as the White House?
You know, just in case they are talking about covert CIA agents?
rwcole @ 95
June iirc.
Waccamaw at 81 — It’s there — you may have a stuck browser cache. It’s at the bottom of the post.
There are amazingly sensitive magnetic detectors out there and very sophisticated pattern recognition algorithms available to piece together fragments of data. And I am sure the FBI folks are up to date on all of them.
The problem, it seems to me, is the legal trigger to set these hound dogs to sniffing out the trail. How exactly does that happen?
Badwater @ 79
If Waxman is smart (and he is) he won’t let a little thing like resignation stop him from putting Gonzo on the hotseat.
FWIW, a lot of commercial ISPs (such as ATT) will automagically delete RECEIVED e-mails after 30 days but leave it to the individual user to delete any SENT e-mails. No idea if that’s how they did things at RNC but worth a looky-see.
Course the entire police forces of the federal govt. are in the hands of an idiot who may be about ta go to jail- a complication.
Badwater & Christy -
Weird b/c I’m still not seeing anything labeled UPDATE at
either top orbottom of post. Will head over to Josh’s to see if I can track it down there. Tks.Has Speedy lawyered up yet?
sweet little Executive Order 13233 ya got there
be a shame if something happened to it – bwaahaaahaaa!
rwcole @ 102
If they got every one in this administration with dirty hands,we would need 6 months to restructure the whole bloody gov.
Dakine
Thanks- that’s a long time from the guilty verdict- must be takin Scoots a long time ta get his character witnesses together.
Waccamaw @ 103
It’s right up there after the line “(H/T to reader “WB” for the link to the LATimes story.)”
Waxman Apr. 9th letter to CondiNew letter from Waxman to Rice telling her to get her butt in here:
Go after the laptops
Now!
Many non-technical users never empty their recycle bins or deleted email items unless they are running out of space.
And even if they do, they seldom rewrite the deleted space.
Servers on the other hand may actually be maintained by competent security specialists (though technical competence has not been the hallmark of these folks)
Quzi @ 83
I think it’s a good idea to let any politician know that there are citizens out there who are aware that “it can’t be done” is a wrong answer, and who are willing to spread that word far and wide. I trust Waxman , if any politician, but we’ve all learned:”Trust but verify”
WTF? these guys seem to think the White House is their own little clubhouse w/ “no admittance” signs hanging on the gates.
WE need regime change!!
my first time ‘awaiting moderation’
and not a bad word to be seen
Badwater -
Found it at tpm; shows at FDL now. Probably going off-site did the trick.
Just another of those “Clinton did it, too” moments ;-(
AZ Matt @ 109
Looks like Henry ate his Wheaties this morning.
rxbusa @
38
rico Rico RICO: the GOP is a racket.
Maybe someone could find authentic emails written by Bush himself. Could make for very entertaining reading.
Talk of FBI got me on a tangent. The San Diego guy who said Lam’s forced resignation was ‘absolutely political’ -
http://www.signonsandiego.com/…..29fbi.html
Wonder if he was made an offer he couldn’t refuse, like the USA/LA who took $1mil plus up front to join the defense firm of that suspected Congressman (can’t remember exectly who just now, but…)
http://www.signonsandiego.com/…..trips.html
Like has been said, ya just gotta question everything. It may be nothing, but it looks funny at first glance.
AZ Matt @ 109
Booyah! The Waxman is not only a bulldog, but a *polite* bulldog.
Perris and Frank P
Perhaps it is not surprising Gonzo is “exasperating” the handlers, because he is so frigging guilty there just is no way for him to fudge his answers, so that from “State your full name, address, and Federal position held” he is totally exposed!
what about ther latest tickled question —- that the Alice Fisher department, Public Integrity, has been dragging its feet, waiting for the statute of Limitations?
Go Waxman — so many points of attack they all start cracking.
Badwater @79
Would a Gonzo resignation absolve him of his obligation to appear before the committee? After all, they’re investigating prior acts.
Remember Sampson testified voluntarily, under the threat of a subpoena.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:15 am
perris at #53 says:
I just thought I’d point out an easier way: once when I was working in an office, we got a full supply of new computers delivered for everyone in the office. Within one year, all ten of the computers’ hard drives crashed and each one got a new hard drive. I’m thinkin’ they’d just pull the old hard drives and put in new ones. However, what they’d do with the backups, I’m really not sure. It seems to me this could be a real problem, since there are probably daily backups.
OT – jen is going to visit steve gilliard in the ICU today…. she’s going to bring him messages from us – leave a comment here by 4pm (est) today.
OT–but related:
More evidence that injured troops are still being ordered back to battle in Iraq. From Salon:
Congress should assume that Gonzo is “over prepared” and start asking him questions that his prep staff would never have rehearsed with him–just slight variations on the questions he is familiar with- he’ll give the wrong answers- or freeze- providing entertainment for all of america.
TREASON REQUIRES IMPEACHMENT
STOVE PIPING INTELLIGENCE TO JUSTIFY MILITARY INTERVENTION AND OCCUPATION At the behest of Corporate oil interests is treason!!!!!!!!!!
Corporate oils response to the peoples concerns. Increase the price of gas at the pump to sodomize the governed because we see the folly of exploits and the plan to grab Iraq’s untapped Al Anbar oil has been stymied by the nationalist Iraqi’s who understand the concept of economic exploitation by the west and the right to self determination, which Bush has no concept of!!!!!!!!!!
So the American people and families foot the bill for these corporate scumbags whose only god is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and oil.
MEANWHILE THE INNOCENT IRAQIS PAY THE PRICE FOR OUR PRESIDENTS POLICIES
Karl Rove…………..aka Rasmussen reincarnated!!!!!!!!!!!
TIME FOR A THIRD PARTY…………………..
Donkeys and Elephants both inhale very fast, they suck !!!!!!!
Can’t excuse people from combat just because they’re likely to kill people- it’s unamerican.
Boy, those Republicans…for a bunch that supposedly loathes the US government have been lining up for jobs like pigs at a trough.
I guess they call it public service.
-GSD
rwcole @ 124
First Q: Mr. AG, why did you lie to us in your last appearance?
Perhaps Patrick Fitzgerald may want to visit this alternative universe that is the RNC/Rove secret message factory.
-GSD
yellowdogD @ 121
It could stall things. The Bush strategy is to run out the clock.
Pat_AlexVA @
67
This is so full of ironies. They’re reading everyone’s email while trying to hide their own. This purge policy is a tacit admission of illegal activity, and is also ineffectual.
Keeping two sets of books is actually legal in the insurance industry. The reasoning and math gets complex, but it really comes down to two sets of books where one show loss and the other records the actual profits you’re making.
Hell of a way to run a business.
“run out the clock”
Way too early for that- the last quarter just started.
GSD @ 128
Republicans have always separated the way they campaign from the way they govern. Their core supporters either don’t seem to mind or don’t seem to notice.
I just had to share this with someone-
My mother, who will be 71 next month, received recruitment literature from the U.S. Army, I kid you not.
She is a registered nurse, and somehow they must have her address somehow, because the literature was specific to recruiting nurses.
I’m sure they’re short of nurses in the U.S. ARmy- There’s a shortage of nurses everywhere.
The Bush Administration needs to keep their paws off my office manager!
If 95% of Rove’s emails were sent on the RNC’s email, one must assume those were all political. One might reasonably conclude that reflects an apportionment of his time, too. We ought to sue him, demanding a return of 95% of his salary to the tax payers. Surely worthy of a class action, eh?
Veritas78 @ 137
Excellent idea!
Meanwhile, New York Mag (and Sean Hannity) hearts Keith Olbermann:
conniptionfit @ 110
I totally agree with your point. I spend a lot of time calling our Congressional critters to complain, to suggest some action on their part, or to make my views known. It’s just that there are too many damn things to complain aobut these days witht this corrupt WH — I have to prioritize because I don’t have the time to tackle everything. KWIM
Fresh thread up and running for everyone.
Speakout @
136
It’s part of the new recruitment campaign:
Granny Get Yer Gun!
-GSD
selise @
123
Thanks to the heads up! Update: thread one filled, here’s thread two
This administration doesn’t disgtinguish between policy discussions and political discussions- they’re just two names for the same slimy activity.
maunga @ 120
Please elucidate. Don’t know what “tickled question” you are referring to.
KO on Tweety:
CHS – Thank you so much for writing this story. I’ve commented a couple of times over the weekend about the crazy stuff I’ve been reading in the emails in the Abramoff investigation on Waxman’s website. I convinced Waxman has Rove firmly in the crosshairs because of the way he has it all organized on his website. He’s got a real timeline going.
Today while Americans struggle to survive our current leaders make sure the interests of the petroleum industry continue to prosper. Meanwhile the American taxpayer and the American people bare the cost of the Iraq War, the War on Terror and forever increasing energy costs.
We’ve land on the moon in ten years. We’ve developed computers, the Internet and made tremendous advances in medicine. We are vulnerable and are not omnipotent. Yet we are unable to adapt, concerning oil? American failure to lead the world in aggressively development clean and efficient alternative energy sources in a growing world energy market has been guaranteed by big oil and its bedfellows. We are vulnerable. We are not omnipotent. The issue of energy and its consequences to the nation’s general welfare are a death wish, left unchecked. For those in power that have used the awesome “executive powers” of the world’s most powerful office, the presidency of the United States and our military might, not for benefit and/or protection of the governed but for the corporate interests of “Executive Oil.”
Good morning, everyone!
GeorgeSimian @ 58
This is exactly what I thought when I read Biodun’s post. They’re lowering the bar, and trying to build up expectations that Gonzo will be awful and give out some explosive testimony. It’s just like when they pulled the “George Bush will do terrible at the debates” exercise – they convinced the public that unless Bush drooled on himself, he did a good job.
Regarding the secret email systems – it makes perfect sense that they had separate computers for their secret communications. Of course, anyone who knows much about business communications would realize the plan to keep this communication secret from the FBI or public knowledge is foolish. There is no way the would be undetected in eight years (unless no one was doing any investigations – can I just remind us all how damn important winning Congress last fall was?)
My gut instinct is that Waxman is on top of this.
One question: what Senate committee would be the most likely to take the lead on this? Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs (headed by Akaka, with Democrats Levin, Carper, Pryor, Landrieu; with Republicans Voinovich, Stevens, Coburn and Warner)? That’s the best guess I would make.
GSD @ 142
Now if they took my 92 year old Grandmother- we could tie this whole thing up right quick!
rxbusa @ 145
This morning Nina Totenberg discussed the slowness and paucity of Action resulting from Abramoff, and the possibility that among Gonzo’s tasks has been slowing down investigations of members of Congress. Plainly there will be a flurry of Emails on Sh Sh servers about this lot…… DeLaying Delay springs to mind.
When, in 2000, Bush promised to be the CEO of USA Inc., no doubt he had Enron in mind as his model.
OK @ 152
He’s been taught by experts…
I wonder if Waxman asked those “DOJ staffers” about their concert ticket perks for getting a $16 million deal through? (it’s in the Abramoff emails).
Get your investigators to make a duplicate copy of the RNC servers on which these e-mails have been stored. Pronto. Have it done forensically, by the white collar crime folks at the FBI.
Perhaps the NSA could be of some assistance. After all, that is what they do. And Rove’s path around the WH has to include peeing on more than one or two national security fire hydrants.
-GFO
maunga @ 151
thanks! Guess I’ll have to go turn on the radio :)
If the same 95-5 ratio applies to how Karl divides up his working day between party and public policy, why is he on the government payroll!?!?
1,481 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Hardin Smith and the Firepup Patriots:
Here they come now…HOO-AH!!!
I, like most a the citizenry of the country, am gettin’ very impatient for subpoenas but I am learnin’ ta trust the Democratic congressional committee leadership, especially Leahy and Waxman. I think it’s obvious that they are coordinating and are way ahead of us out here in the great swamp…that said ,however, it appears that the key to the entire shitty mess that is the fascist regime rests in the e-mails and access to the RNC accounts. That means that any formal proof of wrong doing or any indication of probable cause is hiding behind the door that will hafta be opened by the Supreme Court. And that means that the future of our Constitutional Democracy rests on the vote of one Mr. Justice Kennedy…ain’t it ironic that in order to end this hideous nightmare we gotta go beggin’ ta the same court that gave us these Nazi criminals??!!
Dear Sister Hardin Smith, can you please tell us out here in the wetlands why we should have any faith in the legal system you have been championing for most of yer adult life? It seems to me that every facet of our system has been corrupted and we are waiting for the gatekeepers for the crime-bosses to open the gates of truth. Please tell me why we should be hopeful that the system will work and why we shouldn’t…
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, WE’RE GUNNA HAFTA GO IN AND DIG THE BASTARDS OUT!!!
> An e-mail, like a diamond, is forever. It
> is my understanding that if it went out on
> the internet, it is stored on multiple system
> routers and ISP servers with redundancy
> back-ups.
Interestingly enough that turns out not to be the case. As does the post a bit farther down stating that all e-mails can always be recovered.
The unsuitablility of most e-mail systems for long-term storage, archiving and searching; the concept of document retention policies and purging [1]; and the design and operation of real tape backup systems might be a good topic for a Firedoglake “ask the expert” post. About 2/3 of the comments I see on these topics here are partially to fully misinformed.
Cranky
[1] Which is entire separate from the issue of the Executive Records Act.
Organic George @ 59
Yes this is what Fitz indicated during his press conference after the jury released their verdict.
The third charge against Libby had to do with communication with Cooper. The only charge that the jury did not slam Libby with.
Hopefully following the e-mails will open Fitz’s case again….
Norske at 158 — Because George W. Bush and his cronies are not, nor will they ever be, the whole of the legal system. They are but an 8 year blip in a long, long line of history — and in this country we have a tradition of wearing off the rough edges over time.
This is apparently the $16 million deal. The actual emails say that DOJ staffers enabled the deal (I guess because it was for a jail) and were given tickets to Dave Matthews Band concert.
Waxman’s statement:
“These documents, if accurate, provide evidence that White House officials took multiple actions that benefited Mr. Abramoff and his clients, including: ensuring the release of $16 million for the construction of a jail for the Mississippi Band of the Choctaw; pressuring a Senate office to advance legislation to resolve a land dispute affecting the Sandia Pueblo of New Mexico; endorsing or declining to endorse political candidates; and intervening to secure the termination of a State Department employee who had taken positions contrary to those advocated by Mr. Abramoff.”
Smells of Domenici too.
OK Speedy- let’s go through this again- so what meeting did you NOT attend FIRST? What was the first decision that you were ignorant of?
Organic George @ 59
Fitz made this clear during his press conference just after the jury released their lIbby verdict. He would open the case back up if more information came forward.
I believe the third count that Libby was not convicted of had to do with communication with Cooper.
Let’s hope that Fitz’s case is opened back up.
Organic George @ 59
Fitz was very clear at the press conference just after the Libby juries verdict. He said that if there was any new information that came forth from congress investigating, the Libby case could be opened again.
I believe the third Libby count had to do with communications with Cooper.
Pat_AlexVA @ 27
And what is needed is not copies but the physical devices and tapes. Electron scanning microscopes can reveal very interesting things from hard drives and tapes that have been erased, formatted, rewritten whatever by all but the most secure shredding protocols. It would also be very interesting to get documentation on exactly what the retention policy for the RNC & gbw43 servers is. It may just add to the circumstantial evidence of a conspiracy to evade the record retention laws but since when has that stopped a good prosecutor from proceeding.
> Electron scanning microscopes can reveal very
> interesting things from hard drives and tapes
> that have been erased, formatted, rewritten
> whatever by all but the most secure shredding
> protocols.
If any of the e-mails in question were kept in local mail stores/archives on single PC hard disks, perhaps. If they were kept in central servers with large RAID arrays, this tends not to be the case.
Cranky
Here is a link to computer forensics (on Wikipedia), and it also has a link to DOJ standards for forensic analysis.
Computer forensics
Dr. James Knodel (the mystery Ph.D. unbeknownst to the Internet and this post’s librarians trying to research his past), is director of security in the EO of the President. He’s on it. He’ll get Mr. Waxman his answers about all those Non-Official Cover communications at the White House, oh, just after he finishes reviewing and downgrading Karl’s security clearance.
Again, what about the NSA??? Wouldn’t they have copies of the emails? Also, can’t a hacker retrieve the deleted ons? Just curious.
If I were still living in DC, I’d be down on First Street every night dumpster-diving.
eCAHNomics @ 32
Uh guys, the FBI is famous for lousy computer skills, they cannot even get their new case tracking system to work.
Nope, you want one of the international computer Forensics training frims like SANS to do this.
The train the guys who train the guys who run your IT departments
The minute I heard there was RNC email involved, I was saying they needed to do a lockdown on those servers. But they have to FIND the servers first. And not just the servers, but the physical drives the email was stored on.
That’s going to be hard when the kitty knocked the koolaid over onto the box last week and set the whole place on fire. Darn! Hate it when that happens.
Also, even if they luck out and find the drive, making a copy of the drive doesn’t help. I think you have to have the original hardware if you are going to extract deleted or formatted data off of it.
Christy, the Bush/Cheney Junta have very close friends who own a military grade hard-drive scrubbing software (Cyberscrub). This company is in Atlanta and I would bet my eye teeth this software has been involved in a lot of election shenanigans. They will scrub the RNC machines. They will take the risk of scrubbing the hard drives, knowing the Democrats can do nothing. Just wait.
YOu are completely right–these servers need to be seized by scrupulously honest and competent computer forensic people.
If our RNC friends were using Blackberrys, I and I believe Susan Ralston among others did, then the mail is likely server based on Microsoft Exchange. Outside of some Nextel Blackberries, until very recently, the only way a blackberry phone got IP access was via the BES (Blackberry Exchange Server).
So the original mails would reside in an Exchange store. There might be local versions maintained on a PC in a PST file (an Outlook mail DB format). There would likely be archives of the server databases for restoration (which could go back a significant length of time) and then finally, there could be a personal email backup facility, which allows individual users to restore mail without the need to do a full mail system restore.
People hate to delete or lose all mail. Some people never delete a single mail, delighting in the ability to pull info out of the archives. There are likely tons of emails available, and there won’t be exotic forensics needed.
Basic system administration tasks don’t lend themselves very well to supporting paranoid data destruction. No matter how many times they say they want it all gone, there is going to be something that needs to be recovered. Admins plan for that final contingency.
BlackBerry’s might transmit via radio, and certainly would with very little or no encryption. It is very possible foreign bodies are well aware of Rove’s most intimate thoughts…. Odd the American people, who pay him to be a politically divisive force in American politics, would be in the dark on matters such as politicizing the DoJ while some spy agency somewhere is likely laugh their asses off.
No wait, that’s not “odd.”
When is Waxman going to start issuing the subpeonas? Why haven’t the hard drives already been confiscated or at least the subpeona sent out?
Rick G., your comment is very comforting to me.