Ding

I have an impression that Rudy has ties to the mob (Bernard Kerik).

I think you’re right, Jane. (And Rudy is wrong, for all of us.)

His wife wearing that tacky tiara was really nauseating.

guiliani is becoming a mainstream politicion

Although Rudy get s a free pass from the MSM on it,
he is basically a fascist. And I don’t use that word lightly.

See Glenn Greenwald’s take on Giuliani.
(You may need to wait for the ad and click through.)

This is exactly what I’ve been saying! Nice to see someone agree, though I’m not surprised at all it happened at the lake.

Rudy’s gaffe about not knowing whether North Korea or Iran was a bigger nuclear threat should go far to discredit any foreign policy experience he wants to claim. I think most first graders could answer correctly, “is someone with a gun more dangerous than someone without one?” Rudy didn’t.

Jane! perfect!

Rudy’s performance as mayor – with all the anti-brown people pizazz he pushed – will be very appealling. Add in Mr Twin Towers and what’s a little divorce and abortion amongst friends?

I couldn’t agree with you more, Jane. All this is clearly becoming, not a cultural split, but showing up thesplit personality of the US populaton: calvaiers ve roundheads, L7’s against hipsters, artists vs accountants.

A lot of people (maybe 30%) just feel better when papa is in charge, no matter what. They want everything “just settled once and for all” and hate that feeling that reality is just a boil of bouncing electrons that can’t be predicted. Makes ‘em nervous with nothing to hold on to, they think.

I sure to wish they would relax and have faith that insecurity is the price of living, and they have to work at making a life with reason and education. The other is so much easier.

Rudy’ll try to get the leaders of the religious right the same way Clusterfuck did- promise em money–”faith based initiatives!!Every preacher can build a million dollar home– a Mercedes in every parish garage..Easy sell.

Rudy is a mega loser.

New Yorkers hated your guts for most of your 2 terms as mayor. I should know. I am one.
You failed to establish terrorist protections for NYCity throughout the 90’s as required by the 93′ bombing commission.
You failed to co-ordinate between the police and fire depts for all of the 90’s as required also by the commission.
You attacked coffee vendors,frankfurter vendors,street vendors.
You squelched civil liberties and were positively loathsome to the press.
You left New York with tens of BILLIONS in debt while whoring city real estate to anti-union and anti labor businesses.
Before 9/11 you were parceling out WTC property to your crony fuck sponsors in real estate.

Your a pathetic joke Rudy and when the truth starts coming out in the next few months about your wretched tenure as NY mayor and the hocus pocus of 9/11 from FOX cameras, then they will laugh and
roll their eyes- will realize what a complete fuckin waste of time you are.

Just read WAYNE BARRETT’S superb book,Grand Illusion, on Rudy’s craven incompetance leading up to 9/11. A primer for everyone outside New York who isn’t fully aware of Rudy’s shitty boilerplate temperment and politics.

Better yet, dig up Bob Herbert’s utterly revealing pieces on Giuliani from the 90’s.

Jimmy Breslin calls him a “loser”. You can look this up easy enuf-I just don’t have the link……

Ms. Jane is correct. Don’t give Rudy legs. Even feet. And yes, the right would rather go with a gung ho fascist like Rudy. They will oblige him his tiny peccadilloe…
However. Even if he makes it up the campaign ladder, he is going to be destroyed by an already burgeoning anti Rudy fusillade.
There is no family in the background.
Except golddiggin Judith.
He is an amorphous and nebulous politician greasing from one side of the fence to the other as required..
Give him the national stage and we have a full blown animated cartoon politician.
He wont make it.

If Rudy has such strong law and order creds, why did he support Kerik (soon to be indicted for having organized crime connections among other felonies) for Homeland Security chief, and have this individual for a business partner and close pal?

Agreed Jane. And over the long haul of the campaign, Rudy will probably hold on ’til the end, as disgusting as that is. The only thing that changes the ReThug picture drastically (barring a major scandal) is Fred Thompson. He jumps in, it’s lights-out for the rest of that field.

Great piece. Hope you’re doing well.

When it’s all said and done- I don’t see Rudy getting the nomination OR McCain. MIGHT be Romney- but I’ll bet we’ll see another guy on the ticket- Jeb?

allan_in_upstate @ 5

Although Rudy get s a free pass from the MSM on it,
he is basically a fascist. And I don’t use that word lightly.

See Glenn Greenwald’s take on Giuliani.
(You may need to wait for the ad and click through.)

Scaaarrrryyyy….

Giuliani foes hope 9/11 changes everything.
Critics want to mar his hero image and hobble his candidacy by questioning his moves.
http://www.latimes.com/news/na…..nes-nation

Once again Jane hits the nail on the head. I don’t like Rudy he scares me. He is all intertwined with the privatization bs.

LS@4

In fairness, I think they were attending a costume party. But it was revealing, nontheless.

rwcole @
11

Rudy’ll try to get the leaders of the religious right the same way Clusterfuck did- promise em money–”faith based initiatives!!Every preacher can build a million dollar home– a Mercedes in every parish garage..Easy sell.

I was just going to say the same thing.

The fundie leaders are going to back whoever promises that the $$$$ will keep flowing into their coffers from “faith based initiatives” and has the best chance of winning. They’ll find a way to make just about anything right with the “faithful” in order to assure that happens. Snake oil sales is their business.

Oklahoma kiddo @
13

If Rudy has such strong law and order creds, why did he support Kerik (soon to be indicted for having organized crime connections among other felonies) for Homeland Security chief, and have this individual for a business partner and close pal?

Rudy and Bill Weld got their L&O creds by taking down most of the New England mob. And they’ve both been reading that horse for all its worth.

Envision the choice. Rudy or Hillary in 2008.

Abortion is a vote-gathering issue for Republics. It is not a governing issue. The worse thing that could happen for them would be a final ban on abortion. For Republics, whining about issues elecion after election is better than actually addressing them.

They certainly could have passed all kinds of anti-aborion laws. Bush would have signed every one of them. When they had total power, why didn’t they? They didn’t because they learned from the balanced budget issue that complaining about things is better for getting votes than fixing things.

I heard one guy say it was the MSM ‘bastards’ who had it in for Rudi and were bringing up all this Kerik info at such a bad time. Right, it’s Newsweek’s fault. Best way to make them hate Rudi?
Have lots of liberals come out strongly for him. That’s what did McCain in, in 2000, I’m convinced.

Jane- It’s no fun bein a cynic- but unfortunately it leads to bein right most of the time.

Jane,
What a small world! The “ex” is from Springfield and I was stuck there for a year. I can imagine the hysteria during that time. Am in London tonight and spoke with a taxi driver from Afghanistan. Luckily, he still has faith in the American people but the American and British govt is another story.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 22

Envision the choice. Rudy or Hillary in 2008.

nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnno

The very worst thing for the reich-wing would be the repeal of Roe v. Wade and most of their leaders know this. They want to throw everything back to the early 50s where June Cleaver vacuums in heels and pearls and Father Knows Best. By claiming to support abortion, it allows Rudy to show steadfastness instead of being flip-flop man Mitt.

We also have to continue to tie Amadou Diallo and Abner Luima to Rudy’s coattails. It was the “Giuliani Time” mentality that let the NYC cops feel they coculd do most anythign with impunity.

dakine01 @ 21

Oklahoma kiddo @
13

If Rudy has such strong law and order creds, why did he support Kerik (soon to be indicted for having organized crime connections among other felonies) for Homeland Security chief, and have this individual for a business partner and close pal?

Rudy and Bill Weld got their L&O creds by taking down most of the New England mob. And they’ve both been reading that horse for all its worth.

Now there’s an unsavory duo.

Just to add something I didn’t put in my posting on my site about Rudy: He’s a fucking punk. He picks on weak people, those who cannot defend themselves and he turns them into pariahs for others to hate, like Hitler did in the early days of his reich.

I worked as an NYPD captain under Giuliani and his lunatics Maples, Anemone, and John MIller (the reporter who loved to show up at hostage scenes wearing his shiny shield in his pocket thinking he was a real cop), along with other true believers.

There was no such thing as civil rights in ghetto neighborhoods, all people in the street were criminals, even the ones coming home at 4 am after working from 8 am.

The man is an imposter and every New Yorker knows it just like we know Hillary is an Entergy mole who thinks only of herself and her corporate sponsors, and Chuckie Schumer comes all over himself at the sight of a camera and microphone.

I was a lifelong Democrat until 2006 when I registered as an Independent. Nothing the Democrats have done so far make me feel I did the wrong thing.

Real New Yorkers know these things.

He also has the same intellectual grasp on foreign policy that W does, none.

From the NY Times;

“What they say in Washington is not going to affect the fact that there are terrorists around the world that are planning to come here and kill us,” he said in Iowa, in the most spirited part of his newly honed stump speech.

And:

Pointing his finger and bouncing up and down on his toes, he declared, “It is something I understand better than anyone else running for president.” (foreign policy)

At a house party in New Hampshire, Mr. Giuliani suggested that it was unclear which was farther along, Iran or North Korea, in the development of a nuclear weapons program. (As in one has detonated a nuclear weapon, and is building more, the other is two to ten years from a weapon, maybe. Tough choice.)

Asked about his policy toward the North Koreans, he said he backed the administration’s approach, mentioning in particular a Chinese role in efforts to pressure them. “I think the strategy has produced enough results so far that you have to stick with it,” he said.

As for Iran, Mr. Giuliani said that “in the long term,” it might be “more dangerous than Iraq.”

He then casually lumped Iran with Al Qaeda. “Their movement has already displayed more aggressive tendencies by coming here and killing us,” he said.

Mr. Giuliani was asked in an interview to clarify that, inasmuch as Iran had no connection to the Sept. 11 attacks. Further, most of its people are Shiites, whereas Al Qaeda is an organization of Sunnis.

“They have a similar objective,” he replied, “in their anger at the modern world.”

In other words, he said, they hate America.
http://tinyurl.com/yq4z6t

Jane you make an excellent point. But Rudy’s problem is the Rethugs’ Fundie “base.” Rudy’s problem is Rudy. Go into his past even just a little bit and you find a whiney recalcitrant baby, packing heat.

The right has shown time and again that they are more than happy to overlook anything to get a guy who hates who they hate.

Rudy should launch as many of these anti-wingnut bombs as he likes. It doesn’t cost him anything, and allows him to seem less crazy to swing voters in the general election.

The fact that he is bat-shit crazy is enough for the wingnuts. In fact, I suspect they like the fact that Rudy’s entire campaign rests on fundamentally false and dishonest foundations — it validates their sense that actual reality is an annoying distraction that is easily overcome with enough will power.

Why Rudy Can’t Stop Cashing in on 9/11.
http://www.alternet.org/story/41443/

Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani has made millions from his Sept. 11 grandstanding and has positioned himself for a presidential run based on his 9/11 persona. How much longer will he get away with it?

Even before he left office as New York City’s mayor at the end of 2001, Rudolph Giuliani was telling reporters about Giuliani Partners, the management consulting firm he intended to open…

Oklahoma kiddo @ 22

Envision the choice. Rudy or Hillary in 2008.

No, No, No, You’re killing me!!!

Matt nails it:

He’s a fucking punk. He picks on weak people, those who cannot defend themselves and he turns them into pariahs for others to hate, like Hitler did in the early days of his reich.

And that’s just for starters.

Mr. Somerset pretty much hit the nerve I felt when I lived in NYC during the Giuliani reign. Mainstream America has no idea what they are in for if he were to be elected.

The modern GOP has become the party of men who hate women and the women who love them

Beautiful!

pouring bacon grease onto the mustard greens

Actually, this sounds delicious.

kinmo @ 35

Oklahoma kiddo @ 22

Envision the choice. Rudy or Hillary in 2008.

No, No, No, You’re killing me!!!

Jeb ‘08

Oklahoma kiddo @ 2

I have an impression that Rudy has ties to the mob (Bernard Kerik).

That, and his family too. From Rudy’s wiki:

The family was Roman Catholic and its extended members included police officers, firefighters, and criminals.[10] Harold Giuliani had trouble holding a job and had been convicted of felony assault and robbery and served time in Sing Sing prison;[11] after his release he served as an enforcer for his brother-in-law Leo D’Avanzo, who ran an organized criminal loan sharking and gambling operation out of a restaurant in Brooklyn.[12]

Actually, I was just finishing the entry on Kerik for my Bush scandals list. It is item 114. I would like to post the scandals list somewhere but it is now nearly 6 pages long.

The Kerik entry:

114. In a rushed process, Bernard B. Kerik, a Rudy Giuliani protege and former New York City Police Commissioner, was nominated to be Secretary of Homeland Security December 3, 2004. He withdrew his name a week later ostensibly because of his employment of an undocumented immigrant as a nanny. However, it quickly came out that Kerik was also involved in a dubious stock sale of stun gun manufacturer Taser International shortly before a critical report by Amnesty International, a sexual harassment suit, connections to a construction company tied to organized crime, use of an apartment donated for 911 relief as a love nest where he could meet his girlfriends, including Judith Regan, and accepting gifts in contravention of ethics rules (for which he paid a $221,000 fine). Kerik was also the inept Interim Minister of the Interior in Iraq under Paul Bremer’s CPA in 2003

kinmo @ 35

Oklahoma kiddo @ 22

Envision the choice. Rudy or Hillary in 2008.

No, No, No, You’re killing me!!!

That is a revolting prospect.

My 17 year old stepdaughter told her mother and stepfather (classic busheviks) that she was going to see Obama in Austin – they were horrified and told her she could only go if she agreed to go see Giuliani with them. Ugh…

The modern GOP has become the party of men who hate women and the women who love them…

That’s not exactly right. In Texas, wingnut women turned on Clayton Williams in droves because he went too far, comparing rape to unwanted rain: “If you know it’s coming, you might as well sit back and enjoy it.” They voted for Ann Richards instead. Think on that for a minute.

No, wingnut nirvana doesn’t center on hatred of women. It centers on control of women, which wingnut females surrender in exchange for the promise of security. When Claytie took rape lightly, that transaction was no longer possible, so he lost.

That said, on the specific point of Rudy and the wingnut view of abortion, I think you’re exactly right. As long as the candidate believes that women should be subordinated, controlled and thus protected, that candidate will do just fine with the mouthbreather bloc.

This is why we need the house to get down to business and shut everyone up. If they work fast enough we can have Pelosi in ‘07. (Either that or get Ford to bring that hydrogen cell car with the electrical chord back to the Rose Garden . . . )

Jeb/Giuliani Heelllpppp!!!!!

matt @ 30

Just to add something I didn’t put in my posting on my site about Rudy: He’s a fucking punk. He picks on weak people, those who cannot defend themselves and he turns them into pariahs for others to hate, like Hitler did in the early days of his reich.

I worked as an NYPD captain under Giuliani and his lunatics Maples, Anemone, and John MIller (the reporter who loved to show up at hostage scenes wearing his shiny shield in his pocket thinking he was a real cop), along with other true believers.

There was no such thing as civil rights in ghetto neighborhoods, all people in the street were criminals, even the ones coming home at 4 am after working from 8 am.

The man is an imposter and every New Yorker knows it just like we know Hillary is an Entergy mole who thinks only of herself and her corporate sponsors, and Chuckie Schumer comes all over himself at the sight of a camera and microphone.

I was a lifelong Democrat until 2006 when I registered as an Independent. Nothing the Democrats have done so far make me feel I did the wrong thing.

Real New Yorkers know these things.

Matt, do NOT get me started on John Miller. You know where hewent after NYPD? FBI.

Ick

Hugh @ 41

Actually, I was just finishing the entry on Kerik for my Bush scandals list. It is item 114. I would like to post the scandals list somewhere but it is now nearly 6 pages long.

hugh – i’d love to see your list… do you have a blogspot or other page? if not, i’m sure many of us (including me) would be happy to host a page for you…

Oklahoma kiddo @ 22

Envision the choice. Rudy or Hillary in 2008.

The winner will be the one whose first name ends in a Y.

Jane’s post reminds me of a line from the untouchables only switched: its just like an italian to come to a gun fight with a knife. No need to ask Jane for her unconcealed weapon license. If words could kill. Oh yeah, they can. 16 words.

The “unborn child” is what they profess to care about because what they really care about are self-determined urban women with lives of their own who take their jobs away and have sex and don’t bake quite enough pies, and they hate ‘em. But that’s not okay to say so we get yet another chorus of “Every Sperm is Sacred.”

The modern GOP has become the party of men who hate women and the women who love them, . . .

Amen.

The same can be said of the whole same-sex marriage debate as well. (OK, it already was said, last summer IIRC.) It’s not the gays that scare the theocon menfolk; it’s that their wimmin might get uppity ideas about gender roles.

It is good to call anti-abortionists what they really are. Hiding behind a marketing slogan like “pro-life” doesn’t mean they give a shit about anything but their own point of view.

eCAHNomics @ 49

Oklahoma kiddo @ 22

Envision the choice. Rudy or Hillary in 2008.

The winner will be the one whose first name ends in a Y.

I’ve said it many times before, but if Rudy hadn’t used his prostate cancer as an excuse, Hillary was going to mop the floor with him in the Senate race in Y2K.

eCAHNomics @ 49

Oklahoma kiddo @ 22

Envision the choice. Rudy or Hillary in 2008.

The winner will be the one whose first name ends in a Y.

Well… that settles that. ;0)

Chris nails it

No, wingnut nirvana doesn’t center on hatred of women. It centers on control of women, which wingnut females surrender in exchange for the promise of security. When Claytie took rape lightly, that transaction was no longer possible, so he lost.

Which brings us back to why the republican party is the “daddy” party. It’s about pater familias The man controls his household. He controls his wife, his children, his slaves.

neokneme @ 52

It is good to call anti-abortionists what they really are. Hiding behind a marketing slogan like “pro-life” doesn’t mean they give a shit about anything but their own point of view.

They’re pro-life up until the child exits the womb, then its social darwinism at its finest.

I forgot about the prostate cancer – I am sure that will be used against him, just like Cheney’s health would/should keep him from running.

Jane, always great to see you in devastating form.

Actually, I can see a lot of anti-Catholic, anti-Italian ‘wingers using Rudy’s prochoice stance as a politically-correct excuse to go to Fred Thompson, who’s already carved thirteen points from Rudy’s support.

Remember, the GOP’s base is made up of people whose churches tell them that the Pope is literally the Antichrist. And not just the Southern churches, either.

Well, now, wait a second. Is Hillary Clinton pro-choice or pro-life? I lost track.

neokneme @ 52

It is good to call anti-abortionists what they really are. Hiding behind a marketing slogan like “pro-life” doesn’t mean they give a shit about anything but their own point of view.

It’s only a vote-getting issue. Even with total power, they passed no legislation. It is curious that their supporters never notice.

dakine01 @ 56

neokneme @ 52

It is good to call anti-abortionists what they really are. Hiding behind a marketing slogan like “pro-life” doesn’t mean they give a shit about anything but their own point of view.

They’re pro-life up until the child exits the womb, then its social darwinism at its finest.

The other (non-indoctrinated) life-forms need not expect eternal continuity. Especially outsiders.

Great post, but one annoyance.

but I like that Rudi doesn’t take any shit from anyone

shouldn’t that be:

“…I luuuvv Rudi, he don’t Take-no-shit from nobody.”

More Wa-Po Skullduggery — this re-writing the truthful Rueters story to make it more propangandish.

http://xymphora.blogspot.com/2007/04/rewrite.html

Sunday, April 08, 2007
Rewrite
Eschaton catches the Washington Post in blatant media manipulation of the war in Iraq, manipulation so bad it can be called lying. The original Reuters story contains the following paragraph concerning an American attack on the Iraqi city of Diwaniya, quoting American military spokesman Lieutenant-Colonel Scott Bleichwehl:

“Bleichwehl said troops, facing scattered resistance, discovered a factory that produced ‘explosively formed penetrators’ (EFPs), a particularly deadly type of explosive that can destroy a main battle tank and several weapons caches.”

These are, of course, the famous explosives that the propagandists claim must be coming from Iran, as the locals in Iraq lack the sophistication to manufacture them. Another lie busted.

But don’t count the Washington Post out yet. In an extensive rewrite of the Reuters piece – in fact, so extensive, you can only see the original framework by looking carefully – the Washington Post scrubs the paragraph about the origin of the EFPs, but ensures that the following is inserted (emphasis in red):

“The U.S. military said two U.S. soldiers died in separate roadside bombings in the east and west of Baghdad on Friday.

One of the bombs was an explosively formed projectile, a particularly deadly type of device which Washington accuses Iran of supplying Iraqi militants.”

In other words, they use the classic Judy Miller/Michael Gordon technique from the New York Times of passing on Bush Administration propaganda by ensuring that it is prominently placed – together with the appropriate weasel words referring back to the original, completely unquestioned, government source – so that there is no technical lying, although the intent is obviously to deceive (the last two honest paragraphs in the Reuters article have also gone missing).

It’s even worse. As Eschaton notes, the Google News capture of the original article contains the original paragraph from the Reuters article. In other words, the truth accidentally slipped out, and they had to rush to fix it. I have to wonder whether the Washington Post news room has some kind of alarm that sounds in those rare cases when the truth is published and the entire staff is mobilized to suppress it.

And they wonder why people no longer buy newspapers.

selise @ 48

hugh – i’d love to see your list… do you have a blogspot or other page? if not, i’m sure many of us (including me) would be happy to host a page for you…

selise, thanks for the thought. I have always been a little intimidated about setting up a blog for some reason. I was thinking about finding a nice quiet comments section from time to time and putting it in there. It’s just that the list has gotten so long. Some of the more recent items I have tried to fill out so that when and if people read them in the future there will be some context and details.

I gotta say I disagree here. I think for those at the top of the Republican pyramid your analysis is probably correct. But I just can’t picture the rank and file evangelical Republicans rallying behind someone who doesn’t embrace ending abortion.

I don’t think they care about the “preborn” much at all, but I do think they care about looking foolish to their sister-in-law or their neighbor or their co-worker who they’ve been spouting pro-life platitudes to for years. If they have to defend Guiliani’s views their heads will explode . . .

Slothrop @ 60

Well, now, wait a second. Is Hillary Clinton pro-choice or pro-life? I lost track.

She’s pro-Hillary.

Many Catholics believe in a woman’s right to choose. And many Catholics do not like George Bush.

It always bothered me that Rudy was in London, blocks away from the London Bombings in 05. I would like to see what the statistical odds are of one individual being blocks away from two of the largest terrorist attacks on the west in two separate continents.

I am not too worried about the 30%’s. Once the General Election begins – The Democratic mantra should be – look what the GOP has given us the past 8 years. Do we need more incompetence and cronyism?

Peterr @ 51

The same can be said of the whole same-sex marriage debate as well. (OK, it already was said, last summer IIRC.) It’s not the gays that scare the theocon menfolk; it’s that their wimmin might get uppity ideas about gender roles.

EXACTLY.

If the theocons weren’t all about the misogyny, they wouldn’t give a rip who screwed who.

But the ancient ethos, dating all the way back to Homer’s Greece, of “it’s good to be the penetrator, bad to be the penetrated” has a lock on their lizard brains.

I can’t see the R’s going with a yankee candidate. They have become the party of the South and Utah. When it comes right down to it they will go with another dim son.

Slothrop @ 60

Well, now, wait a second. Is Hillary Clinton pro-choice or pro-life? I lost track.

Doesn’t matter — she’s not getting the nomination. It’s between Edwards and Obama now.

Gnome de Plume @ 69

I can’t see the R’s going with a yankee candidate. They have become the party of the South and Utah. When it comes right down to it they will go with another dim son.

Jeb ‘08!

This Democrat is so disappointed in Hillary Clinton. There was a time when I would have walked on live coals for this woman. No more.

Hugh @ 65

selise, thanks for the thought. I have always been a little intimidated about setting up a blog for some reason. I was thinking about finding a nice quiet comments section from time to time and putting it in there. It’s just that the list has gotten so long. Some of the more recent items I have tried to fill out so that when and if people read them in the future there will be some context and details.

if you will email me the list ( at speakeasy dot net) i will make a page for you to link to (and edit – or have me edit, your choice)…. ?

Slothrop @ 60

Well, now, wait a second. Is Hillary Clinton pro-choice or pro-life? I lost track.

She certainly is.

Harry Shearer’s “le show” was great Sunday night. He did a piece on the “plethora” of talking heads and news articles focused on how much the candidates are spending.

http://www.harryshearer.com/index_2.html

Why is it that the “pro-lifers” seem unable to apply their supposed belief in the sanctity of life to people living outside of U.S. borders. Like the people of Iraq. Or even to people after they are born.

These folks are not “pro-life” they are “pro-fetus”.

If they were pro-life they would support.
– A national health care plan
– Living wages
– equity in education. Free college for all without joining the military.

Now that is PRO LIFE

Badwater @ 61

It’s only a vote-getting issue. Even with total power, they passed no legislation. It is curious that their supporters never notice.

Their base can’t infiltrate the political niches fast enough to declare themselves Soverigns after all. The First Domestic Crusade has been stymied.

Jeesh. Tony Blankley looks freakish as of late. He’s either very ill, or he’s on some diet/face-lift, tanning regimen that has left him looking like The Jeepers Creepers guy.

-GSD

Oklahoma kiddo @ 74

This Democrat is so disappointed in Hillary Clinton. There was a time when I would have walked on live coals for this woman. No more.

I agree and also believe that she’s the choice the Republics would most like to run against. Enough already.

Being pro-choice won’t hurt Rudy in the general election, should he get that far. That’s not what we’re talking about, of course, but it’s true.

Whether you’re right that the wingnuts’ authoritarian instincts will win out over their aversion to abortion remains to be seen. I can’t put myself into the mindset of our opponents, and right now I don’t want to. The one thing I’ve observed, though, is that if we on the left don’t like someone, the right is more likely to embrace him. That’s certainly true in Guliani’s case.

Jane,

I think you are dead right about the religious conservatives voting for Rudy but a big draw back for them will be Rudy’s current wife.

I think they will hate Mrs. G. for the same reasons they hate Hillary.

kamboka @
26

Jane,
What a small world! The “ex” is from Springfield and I was stuck there for a year. I can imagine the hysteria during that time. Am in London tonight and spoke with a taxi driver from Afghanistan. Luckily, he still has faith in the American people but the American and British govt is another story.

jane already knows this but i lived there for three years, waaaay back when, and i have stories to tell. pretty amazing that there are three people on this blog who have associations and memories of that little tobacco town …..

707 jane, especially the part about afghan paratroopers not dropping in on Springfield, and your cousin saying “you know” and “ain’t that right, Rob Roy”.
one of my favorite images is of the mayor clipping his finger nails in the choir loft during the sermon at the First Methodist Church. you could hear it all over the church ……

The one thing I’ve observed, though, is that if we on the left don’t like someone, the right is more likely to embrace him.

That settles it, then. I hereby announce my affection and respect for every Republican candidate for President in 2008. God bless them all and may we have a fair and civil debate and election.

(At which point we had better crush their pointy little criminal heads with no mercy.)

Oops, did I say that out loud? I meant to say, “All the GOP candidates look perfectly reasonable to me. Don’t they look good to you?”

Badwater @ 61 – they’ve passed plenty of legislation, they just haven’t overturned RvW yet.

In some places, the restrictions and requirements have it so abortion might as well be illegal.

They can’t take it to the end point – they need the wedge issue, and the majority doesn’t WANT RvWade overturned. Look at SD.

You’d think, though, that getting punk’d by the GOP would get old for the true believers.

Jane, I rarely comment, but I really enjoyed this post. Thanks.

Jane’s takedown seems spot-on, from what I have read and seen of Mr. G. Scary how men like him and McCain get so much mileage with their “manly men” charade. They somehow manage to give off the scent of testosterone that the wingnuts crave. Perhaps the MSM journalists who continue to polish their images for them are literally afraid of them.

At any rate, the 9/11 showcasing of his “leadership” talents brainwashed folks across the country into thinking he was the Savior. I was at an outdoor concert in Sioux City, Iowa, a year later and saw a woman with a tattoo covering her entire calf–of Rudy!!!! Blew my mind to think anyone would want his ugly mug on their body to eternity.

Yep, gotta agree. The only thing that would turn the wingnuts off Rudy is gun control. But even the NRA can be bought off if he works a deal with them like promising to suspend the 1st Amendment.

Hagel could wipe out Rudy (for the wingers) in one day.

Why is it that the people who call themselves “pro-life” seem to be unable to apply their supposed beliefs in the sanctity of life to people outside U.S. borders. Starting with the people of Iraq.

These folks are not “pro-life” they are “pro- American fetus”. If they were pro-life they would not support pre-emptive invasions of countries that do not attack us.

If they were truely pro-life they would support
1. A National Health care plan
2. Equity in Education. College for all without joining the military
3. Living Wages across the nation.

Now that is pro-life!

OK, selise,

The list is in the (e)mail. Enjoy.

Just got home, and the first thing I see is Jane being brilliant and incisive again. thanks. I am tossing a little coin into the Lake (via PayPal). I hope everyone knows that when you toss your coin into the Lake, your wish comes true.

spurious @ 38

The modern GOP has become the party of men who hate women and the women who love them

Beautiful!

pouring bacon grease onto the mustard greens

Actually, this sounds delicious.

and it is …… especially if it’s served with fried Tennessee white corn.

Any differing reactions between the Catholic anti-abortionists and the Evangelical anti-abortions toward Rudy, I think, will be instructive. Because of the abortion issue, they’ve been in an uneasy alliance; on other matters of faith (as well as a whole host of other demographic factors) they are very much opposed. Think it doesn’t matter? If Kerry ran slightly stronger with Catholics (and assuming there was a limit to the finagling that could be done on Smartech’s computers) he would have won Ohio.

Initial reaction on some Catholic Pro-Life blogs to Rudy’s recent declarations was not favorable. I’m not saying the typical Catholic Pro-lifer necessarily has a more morally coherent position than his Evangelical counterpart, it is just that Rudy’s announced positions may very well play differently to both groups. (And across all anti-abortionist groups, at least the George Bushes of the world talk the talk even if they don’t walk the walk. Rudy now isn’t even talking the talk.)

Rudy’s marital history may also be viewed differently by doctrinaire Catholics and Protestants. After all, he had an annulment after marriage 1. (I don’t know how this happens, but he gets an annulment –17 years later– on the basis he was married to his second cousin. Was she some sort of long lost cousin from the Old Country?). But marriage number 2 was not annulled. So, he shouldn’t be taking Communion now should he so long as he’s married to Dr. Mengele of the dog world. This is something that doctrinaire Catholics will pay attention to. Combine that with pro-legalization of abortion, one would expect them to attack him with a viciousness with which they went after Kerry. But, who knows. Nothing surprises me anymore with this crowd.

pwrlght @ 82

Jane,

I think you are dead right about the religious conservatives voting for Rudy but a big draw back for them will be Rudy’s current wife.

I think they will hate Mrs. G. for the same reasons they hate Hillary.

He’ll either have her tamed (seems I remember a pic of her giving him an enthusiatic kiss) or divorced by general election time.

On the mysogyny front, I want to add that some control freaks (of the R or D persuasion) enjoy targeting seemingly powerful women. They then procede to belittle them to bring them under control. That’s what I think may be going on with Rudy & his new one.

GSD @ 78

Jeesh. Tony Blankley looks freakish as of late. He’s either very ill, or he’s on some diet/face-lift, tanning regimen that has left him looking like The Jeepers Creepers guy.

-GSD

You drink the Kool-Aid for long enough, and that’s what it does.
Just ask Jim Jones.

Speaking of which, Jonestown: The Life and Death of Peoples Temple is highly recommended.
The cult-of-personality side of the story certainly resonates today.
Except that JJ was a lot better looking than GWB.

chris @ 83

The one thing I’ve observed, though, is that if we on the left don’t like someone, the right is more likely to embrace him.

That settles it, then. I hereby announce my affection and respect for every Republican candidate for President in 2008. God bless them all and may we have a fair and civil debate and election.

(At which point we had better crush their pointy little criminal heads with no mercy.)

Oops, did I say that out loud? I meant to say, “All the GOP candidates look perfectly reasonable to me. Don’t they look good to you?”

There would be the perfect whispering campaign. When anyone asks “Who do liberals like among the Republican Presidential candidates”, just say “Rudy. He’s pro-abortion, don’t you know. And I hear he’s not too fond of guns, either. And have you seen his wife? Boy, isn’t she spunky!”

Oklahoma kiddo @ 22

Envision the choice. Rudy or Hillary in 2008.

Na Ga Ha Pen. Neither will win the nod. Fred Thompson’s already carving Rudy down to size.

eCAHNomics @ 49

Oklahoma kiddo @ 22

Envision the choice. Rudy or Hillary in 2008.

The winner will be the one whose first name ends in a Y.

Well, i refuse to not vote. given that choice i will hold my nose and vote for Hillary. anyone for Giuliani?

McCain, Gingrich, Giuliani, Romney, these are not mavericks. They’re loose cannons. All are arrogant and most have anger issues that call their judgment into question and disqualify them from the Presidency.

Eureka Springs @ 88

Hagel could wipe out Rudy (for the wingers) in one day.

A-yep. The trouble is that he, like McCain, has been known to make anti-Bush mouth noises every so often, and as Grover Norquist points out, it’s not that the GOP base is for Iraq, it’s that they’re for Bush. The lizard brains that are left, now that everyone sane has left the party, won’t tolerate even the faking of anti-Bush-ness. Even if it means losing next November.

OT
DC madame is doing a 20/20 segment.

Must be tough for KKKarl Rove to decide which pony to put his money on for the “permanent” Bushie majority. If Bushies go to a real social conservative the Repub party will keep bleeding moderates. With someone like Giuliani it will be tough for social wingnuts to get out to the polls. They are screwed.

Phoenix Woman @ 100

Eureka Springs @ 88

Hagel could wipe out Rudy (for the wingers) in one day.

A-yep. The trouble is that he, like McCain, has been known to make anti-Bush mouth noises every so often, and as Grover Norquist points out, it’s not that the GOP base is for Iraq, it’s that they’re for Bush. The lizard brains that are left, now that everyone sane has left the party, won’t tolerate even the faking of anti-Bush-ness. Even if it means losing next November.

So, do I tell my wingnut friends that I really like Mitt and Jeb? “I hear he’s a really good Catholic, he started a whole Catholic village and everything.” Maybe things have changed, but last I knew wingnuts hated and feared Catholics, figured there were guns in every church basement. Now why they considered that a bad thing I am not sure. And they are distrubed that the Pope wears funny clothes. And isn’t married.

Phoenix Woman @ 94

Oklahoma kiddo @ 22

Envision the choice. Rudy or Hillary in 2008.

Na Ga Ha Pen. Neither will win the nod. Fred Thompson’s already carving Rudy down to size.

This, the party thirsting for the next Ronnie Raygun – Thompson can shoot at them from outside until mid to late summer and waltz to February.

Phoenix Woman @ 97

Oklahoma kiddo @ 22

Envision the choice. Rudy or Hillary in 2008.

Na Ga Ha Pen. Neither will win the nod. Fred Thompson’s already carving Rudy down to size.

Now… if we could just say the same about Hillary, and her ambitions, (’not gonna happen’).

Cujo359 @ 96

chris @ 83

The one thing I’ve observed, though, is that if we on the left don’t like someone, the right is more likely to embrace him.

That settles it, then. I hereby announce my affection and respect for every Republican candidate for President in 2008. God bless them all and may we have a fair and civil debate and election.

(At which point we had better crush their pointy little criminal heads with no mercy.)

Oops, did I say that out loud? I meant to say, “All the GOP candidates look perfectly reasonable to me. Don’t they look good to you?”

There would be the perfect whispering campaign. When anyone asks “Who do liberals like among the Republican Presidential candidates”, just say “Rudy. He’s pro-abortion, don’t you know. And I hear he’s not too fond of guns, either. And have you seen his wife? Boy, isn’t she spunky!”

….don’t forget he is also a dragqueen. I’m just say’in……

eCAHNomics @ 92

prwrlght @ 82

Jane,

I think they will hate Mrs. G. for the same reasons they hate Hillary.

. . . They then proceed to belittle them to bring them under control. That’s what I think may be going on with Rudy & his new one.

Hey not every politician can have a wilted flower like Laura Bush follow them around and give her vacant smile.

Thanks so much for your thoughts on this!

uncle toby @ 90

Rudy’s marital history may also be viewed differently by doctrinaire Catholics and Protestants. After all, he had an annulment after marriage 1. (I don’t know how this happens, but he gets an annulment –17 years later– on the basis he was married to his second cousin. Was she some sort of long lost cousin from the Old Country?).

That always reminded me of an episode of Seinfeld where George Costanza got together with his cousin. A more benign explanation is that he met her at a family reunion and didn’t put it together that the people you are likely to meet at a family reunion are likely to be related to you. This is the “It could happen to anybody” explanation.

Yes, Jane, you said it so much better than I could. In fact I tried making these exact points more than a month ago in a diary at DKos but I just come off sounding like Cassandra, not Dorothy Parker.
My family of fundies will fall all over Rudy because he will protect him from the decapitating terrorists that lurk around every corner of their overly active imaginations. Oh, sure, they understand his abortion stance. He’s going to protect that right because it’s constitutional. But once he’s appointed the right people to the SCOTUS, then it might not be constitutional anymore. Poof! Problem solved.
Of all the reeking, deceitful, strong armed fascists that they GOP has floated in the past year, Rudy strikes me as being the most formidable.
Of course, I *think* you might make headway in tarnishing him by shining a light on his wife. It’s one thing for Rudy to have a Harem, but the fundies don’t cotton to that kind of behavior in a wife. It might just push their blowjob button.

Phoenix Woman @ 99

Eureka Springs @ 88

Hagel could wipe out Rudy (for the wingers) in one day.

A-yep. The trouble is that he, like McCain, has been known to make anti-Bush mouth noises every so often, and as Grover Norquist points out, it’s not that the GOP base is for Iraq, it’s that they’re for Bush. The lizard brains that are left, now that everyone sane has left the party, won’t tolerate even the faking of anti-Bush-ness. Even if it means losing next November.

Hagel is going to surprise everyone! This guy has brought up impeachment, he is a Vet, he thinks we should talk with Iran and Syria. Watch Hagel.

pwrlght @ 107

eCAHNomics @ 92

. . . They then proceed to belittle them to bring them under control. That’s what I think may be going on with Rudy & his new one.

Hey not every politician can have a wilted flower like Laura Bush follow them around and give her vacant smile.

It could probably be arranged with the right pharmaceutical. Does he have any connections that way?

Thank you! for finally saying that the anti-abortion movement has absolutely nothing to do with preserving life and everything to do with punishing sexually active women by forcing them to have children. If you’re ever tempted to cede the moral high ground on this issue, just reflect on the fact that they consider bearing and raising children a punishment.

Oklahoma kiddo @
22

Envision the choice. Rudy or Hillary in 2008.

Prefer envisioning the choice between Rudy or Al.

selise @
48

Hugh @ 41

Actually, I was just finishing the entry on Kerik for my Bush scandals list. It is item 114. I would like to post the scandals list somewhere but it is now nearly 6 pages long.

hugh – i’d love to see your list… do you have a blogspot or other page? if not, i’m sure many of us (including me) would be happy to host a page for you…

Let us know where it ends up – thanks

Can someone give me a link to the Rudy cross dressing story? I somehow managed to miss it when he was mayor.

Ms. Hamsher is an astute observer of “rural” cultural values. As a former ruralite, born in Iowa and spent 15 years living in the deep south, now living in New Jersey and working in The City, I think that she had captured the essence of the appeal of Rudy. He may be a yankee, but he is a law and order yankee who can make you feel safe at home from the possibility of the invading brown people. And while he may not gain the nomination, his appeal is not to be denied. McCain has suffered a loss of credibility and he is starting to look old. Romney is just strange to anyone who comes from a rural background.

Jane, that is a lovely, lovely post. It was so nice I went back just to read it again for pleasure. “…watching the Twin Towers come down like prime time porn…” Delicious.

We hearts our Jane.

newspaperbrat @ 113

Oklahoma kiddo @
22

Envision the choice. Rudy or Hillary in 2008.

Prefer envisioning the choice between Rudy or Al.

That would be toooo good. Gore for ‘08! ;0)

PW – Interesting points, however, when Bush is utterly defeated and he will be although it is not certain at what point in the campaign season it will fall. Hagel could be the new uber-daddy who helps them move on… (No fan of Hagel at all..just trying to keep one eye one the horizon) Hagel would be disasterous for Dems, if repubs wake up in time, especially if he is up against Hillary or Obama. Except the Iraqi fiasco would end quickly.

Jane, The repub transplants in the south forgive Rudy for all, but I volunteer with folks originally from GA and their mind is made up. No Way can he make the cut. Period, done deal.. I guess it will be hard for them to vote for any repub running because let’s face it, the top tier has family value issues.

eCAHNomics @ 112

Can someone give me a link to the Rudy cross dressing story? I somehow managed to miss it when he was mayor.

Here’s one, though not the one you had in mind, I think…

Hotflash @111

It could probably be arranged with the right pharmaceutical. Does he have any connections that way?

I believe Mrs. G. is a nurse – she should be able to get her hands on something

Ecah, at 116.

The goods on Sweet Rudy Blue Eyes.

That’ll make a heckuva a campaign spot for someone.

-GSD

“They love him in a way they will never love McCain, whose belly-crawl to the fundamentalists only make him seem weak and cause them to despise him even more.”

That is spot-on brilliant analysis. Rudy’s FU to the religious nutcases will only make them lust after him more.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 118

newspaperbrat @ 113

Oklahoma kiddo @
22

Envision the choice. Rudy or Hillary in 2008.

Prefer envisioning the choice between Rudy or Al.

That would be toooo good. Gore for ‘08! ;0)

It would also be good for the country because only a half-witted wing nut can deny the Bush/Cheney criminal cartel not only stole the election of President Al Gore they robbed us of peace and prosperity all these long six years and counting.

El_Hornito @ 124

“They love him in a way they will never love McCain, whose belly-crawl to the fundamentalists only make him seem weak and cause them to despise him even more.”

That is spot-on brilliant analysis. Rudy’s FU to the religious nutcases will only make them lust after him more.

What I heard from rel. rt. folks that I volunteer with is no way. They are single issue voters and abortion is number one.

newtonusr @ 122

eCAHNomics @ 112

Can someone give me a link to the Rudy cross dressing story? I somehow managed to miss it when he was mayor.

Here’s one, though not the one you had in mind, I think…

I was looking for one that explained what the circumstances were. The google ones I looked at start from the fact that he did it & what it means for his candidacy.

Oh, and gays are number two. He might get the nomination but not because of the south.

I will say this… I like Hagel on Iraq far more than Hillary. And yes, I know his other positions. Could I vote for him, probably not. But Clinton? Whoa. Hillary is a stooge of the Israeli government and just as stupid and stubborn as Bush on Iraq.

kathleen @ 110

Hagel is going to surprise everyone! This guy has brought up impeachment, he is a Vet, he thinks we should talk with Iran and Syria. Watch Hagel.

Hagel is the most conservative senator they’ve got, he’s been rated 100% by the Christian Coalition.

Check out his voting record here

If he’s in, he gets the nomination. Just sayin’

Phoenix Woman @ 100
it’s not that the GOP base is for Iraq, it’s that they’re for Bush.

Not even the majority of the Bush family seems to be for Bush.

JPL @ 127

El_Hornito @ 124

“They love him in a way they will never love McCain, whose belly-crawl to the fundamentalists only make him seem weak and cause them to despise him even more.”

That is spot-on brilliant analysis. Rudy’s FU to the religious nutcases will only make them lust after him more.

What I heard from rel. rt. folks that I volunteer with is no way. They are single issue voters and abortion is number one.

Let’s put it this way, if the fundy is in the voting booth and the choice is Rudy Giuliani or John Edwards, who do you think the fundy is going to vote for?
It wouldn’t matter if the Democrat was the most brilliant, accomplished man in the world, Democrats are the hedonism party, the party without conscience, the weaklings. If they can’t stand Rudy either, I can see them sitting it out.

But abortion? They’ll whine, but they’ll get over it.

They whine, then they use it to bash Liberals even harder. Then Rudy sees the *light* and becomes a compassionate conservative wrt the blastocysts and brings dignity and honor back to the… Ohh, my head. yikes.

While I agree that most Republicans are most interested in controlling other people (including women and minorities), I don’t think Rudy will get the Republican nomination. He has a combination of so many characteristics many long-time Republicans find offensive. I personally believe a lot of Republicans will not vote for him for the nomination, when they have McCain and Tancredo in the primary. I think we underestimate how many people will flat out refuse to vote for any nominee who supports abortion rights, and especially one who supports homosexuals. I don’t see Rudy getting a majority of the voters when the anti-abortion, anti-gay voter has other options.

Surely, if Rudy pulled off the nomination, a majority of Republicans will vote for him (and a small group will stay home or go 3rd party) instead of the Democratic party nominee. I don’t think he’ll get that far. The glaring eye of the press will shift focus from McCain to Guiliani in a few months, and I don’t think Rudy’s strong and slick enough to be able to deflect criticism on both abortion AND gay rights AND fidelity. People will reflect on how Rudy’s 2000 Senate campaign was a shambles due to scandals before he pulled out for health reasons (it seemed he would have had a difficult chance of beating Clinton even if he were healthy). I think the overblown but oft-cited story about him “living with a gay couple” and him having marched in Gay Pride parades will seal his fate with the virulently homophobic sector of Republican primary voters.

I may sound like a nutcase, but I think McCain will get the nod (barring any major health issue). He’s getting kicked now, but he’s been pandering to the correct folks and will pass the smell test with a lot of the fundies much moreso than Rudy will. He has plenty of time to repackage himself as already weathering the storm and being the most “electable” because people see him as experienced, tough, and admire his military record. I see McCain as the 2008 Republican version of Kerry four years ago (first was considered the front runner, then the laughing stock of the campaign as his poll numbers taned, and finally emerged the nominee because he was the most palatable and electable by the majority of primary/caucus voters who counted).

MelodyMaker @ 134

But abortion? They’ll whine, but they’ll get over it.

They whine, then they use it to bash Liberals even harder. Then Rudy sees the *light* and becomes a compassionate conservative wrt the blastocysts and brings dignity and honor back to the… Ohh, my head. yikes.

They’re more concerned with their own safety than the life of an embryo.
Real fundies are just cowards when you get right down to it.

Heh…What Jane said.

The prevailing concensus seems to be that Republican pols and the rank and file of the GOP loves George Bush.

portia.vz @ 132

JPL @ 127

El_Hornito @ 124

“They love him in a way they will never love McCain, whose belly-crawl to the fundamentalists only make him seem weak and cause them to despise him even more.”

That is spot-on brilliant analysis. Rudy’s FU to the religious nutcases will only make them lust after him more.

What I heard from rel. rt. folks that I volunteer with is no way. They are single issue voters and abortion is number one.

Let’s put it this way, if the fundy is in the voting booth and the choice is Rudy Giuliani or John Edwards, who do you think the fundy is going to vote for?
It wouldn’t matter if the Democrat was the most brilliant, accomplished man in the world, Democrats are the hedonism party, the party without conscience, the weaklings. If they can’t stand Rudy either, I can see them sitting it out.

They will vote for Dobson.. Actually I was talking about the primaries.

The Rudy I knew, the pre-mayor Rudy, surrounded himself with the best and the brightest. Took corageous stands, his fights with Ed Meese’s DOJ were the stuff of legends.

Figured out how to make this RICO thingy work the way it was inteded and carved out a body of case law that served as the model for the rest of the nation.

Invested time, money and creativity into really labor itensive mafia investigations that resulted in prosecution like “the Pizza Conenction” and the “commission case” and “the body parts case” when everybody said it could not be done.

That Rudy created a climate where really bright young lawyers were nutured and developed and supported in such a way that they were able to excede even their own wildest dreams of how good they could be.

That Rudy, protected his people from interferance from guys like Al D’Amato (does anybody except me remember the famous breakdown of their relationship? Do you have to be told WHY it broke down?) who thought they could put their fingers on the scales of justice.

That Rudy instituted Federal Day — low level buy and bust prose cution in targeted neighborhoods that literally tunred those neighborhoods around within a year. I saw it with my own eyes. I went up to the worst parts of Harlem in the middle of the night and sat int precints in MAnhattan North Narcotics and wrote complaints unitl dawn. And I saw those blocks we had targeted come back to life.

Something really dreadful has happened to him since those days. He has morphed into something I don’t recognize any more. There was time though, when he was on the right track.

I was told by someone who knew him for years before I met him, that Rudy had not always been such a swell guy. That person chaulked it up to Rudy being unhappy in his first marriage.

In hindsight it seems like the “good Rudy” years coincided with the years he was happily married to Donna Hanover (a truly, truly lovely person). It’s almost as thought when Christine Latagano severed the tie between Rudy and Donna, she also cut him off from his better self.

I was lucky, I only knew him during the good years.

1,481 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..

Citizen allen_in_upstate and the Firepup Patriots:

‘…he is basically a fascist. And I don’t use that term lightly.”

Well, get used ta usin’ it if yer gunna be involved with politics here in the 21st Century. The basic requirement for political intelligence in Amerika today is to be able to distinguish between the fascists and everyone else. The candidates that deserve your support and vote are those who will not compromise with corporate money or fascist fellow travelers in order to gain temporary acceptance. It’s really simple, we must develop a big tent anti-fascist front and isolate the corporatists and pro-war gobblins in their pastures south of the Mason Dixon line and in the arid wastelands of Utah.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION AND WELCOME TO THE BATTLE!!!

MelodyMaker @ 134

But abortion? They’ll whine, but they’ll get over it.

They whine, then they use it to bash Liberals even harder. Then Rudy sees the *light* and becomes a compassionate conservative wrt the blastocysts and brings dignity and honor back to the… Ohh, my head. yikes.

After all the years of total control and not a single anti-abortion law, why do the fundies continue to vote for Republics? Do they not even notice how Republics really govern?

p.s. good points also made by others about Hagel, although I think that a large group within the Republican party doesn’t like his criticism of the President & Georgie’s war. I honestly believe they prefer a candidate who will appear “strong and loyal” over one who is “critical and intelligent”.

As further support for Jane’s view, someone mentioned the other day that Bill Donohue is one of Rudy’s big supporters, and when Giuliani reaffirmed his support for state-funded abortion, Donohue was notably silent on the pronouncement.

Rudy’s “law `n order” stance will be enough to cause most (but not all) of the wingnuts to accept him into the fold. There will be the true extremists (the people who think Eric Rudolph is a hero) who will not support him–at least publicly–but if Rudy ratchets up the “brown folk comin’ to get ya” talk, such as Bush is spouting now as rationale for continuing his war, the RWAs will be suitably terrorized and flock to him.

JPL @ 127: “What I heard from rel. rt. folks that I volunteer with is no way. They are single issue voters and abortion is number one.”

Those folks will be staying home in ‘08,because they’ve got the conviction to say “no thanks,” but the religious right powerbrokers (Dobson, Falwell, Perkins, Robertson) are all going to have to get behind someone… they have to stay in the game. Rudy? McCain? Romney? Gingrich? All are seriously flawed from the social conservative’s point of view, so somebody’s(alleged) “principles” will have to be compromised/justified one way or another.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 129

I will say this… I like Hagel on Iraq far more than Hillary. And yes, I know his other positions. Could I vote for him, probably not. But Clinton? Whoa. Hillary is a stooge of the Israeli government and just as stupid and stubborn as Bush on Iraq.

Oh my dear OKiddo – must disagree Hillary is as stupid as Bush on Iraq – nor as stubborn. No one in modern American polilical history has even come close to Bush for sheer stupidity. Hillary is brilliant and the only truly stupid thing she has done in recent times is not admitting her vote for the Iraq war was, well, stupid..and in her case unforgivable as far as I’m concerned.

Breaking NBC…

Imus to be suspended for two weeks

I have been lurking for awhile/reading the wisdom here… it’s so much better than newspapers… and I have started posting…. but I just gotta say, Miss Jane H:
you are brilliant and you consistenly hit it straight on. Love that. Rudi is a fascist. One only had to live through his reign in NYC and remember marauding cops and quality of life patrols. And if you were a black male, well, you had a target on your back, regardless of class or occupation (not that it should matter).

Oklahoma kiddo @ 138

The prevailing concensus seems to be that Republican pols and the rank and file of the GOP loves George Bush.

Yeah. For some reason, I even kinda liked him in 2000. I didn’t believe a word he said, didn’t trust him, I thought he was a dangerous idiot, but somehow.. I see Rudy having some of that charm with regular folks too. again, yikes.

landofthefree @ 143

p.s. good points also made by others about Hagel, although I think that a large group within the Republican party doesn’t like his criticism of the President & Georgie’s war. I honestly believe they prefer a candidate who will appear “strong and loyal” over one who is “critical and intelligent”.

McCain’s been trying, but I think he has too much of a conscience to sincerely be “strong and loyal”. They need somone lacking in conscience. They need Jeb! Genetically engineered to lack conscience!

Gotta just say, that was an EXCELLENT post.

El_Hornito, if the leaders were really the religious right they’d get behind Huckabee, but we know that won’t happen.

Couldn’t agree more with your perception. I believe that the rank and file of any political persuasion couldn’t give any detail about a candidate’s position.

How else can anyone explain GWB’s two terms, and the 30% of the people who still think he’s doing just fine.

Can we drop the infantile fun-making about cross-dressing? It was a costume for a skit. Ignore the bullshit sideshows, and nail this bastard for his straight-up vileness…

…as exemplified by his despicable (and illegal) response to the Patrick Dorismond shooting.

Good points about Hagel, he may be all the fundies have left. But he’s against the war, and that don’t fly with the fundie powerbrokers. Bottom line with Dobson et al., it’s about power and control, even at the expense of religious conviction. They will endorse whomever they think is best positioned win.

I must respectfully disagree with Jane on this one. I think a lot of the actual GOP primary voters do care about abortion and are uneasy with Rudy over it. And while many of them would suck it up and vote for Rudy over Hillary in the general, you are mistaken if you think he will get a pass on this in the primaries. If you’re Newt, and you see Rudy pulling ahead of you, aren’t you going to go atomically negative on every hot-button issue that you can?

newspaperbrat @ 146

Oklahoma kiddo @ 129

I will say this… I like Hagel on Iraq far more than Hillary. And yes, I know his other positions. Could I vote for him, probably not. But Clinton? Whoa. Hillary is a stooge of the Israeli government and just as stupid and stubborn as Bush on Iraq.

Oh my dear OKiddo – must disagree Hillary is as stupid as Bush on Iraq – nor as stubborn. No one in modern American polilical history has even come close to Bush for sheer stupidity. Hillary is brilliant and the only truly stupid thing she has done in recent times is not admitting her vote for the Iraq war was, well, stupid..and in her case unforgivable as far as I’m concerned.

I understand what you are saying to me. ;0)

Hugh @ 90

OK, selise,

The list is in the (e)mail. Enjoy.

thanks, got it! it will take just a minute…

Cozumel @ 147

Breaking NBC…

Imus to be suspended for two weeks

Finding the compromise between right & wrong.

Maybe abortion is not that important to them all, but some of the rank and file wingnutery will peel off on that issue. Guns and ammo folk may not like Romney’s squirrel credentials, and some may not like McCain’s born again belly crawl. And then maybe Thompson, perhaps too much of an actor, even for the easily fooled. Isn’t it true that all of these splinters will make it hard for the post-Bush party to rally, really rally, around some one figure?

They all look like they could be spoilers of each other, at least at the primary level.

Not to get too euphoric. They will always have Rupert Murdoch to infect the public mind, and rally them around the chosen Beezelbub, but just sayin’ …

Can I say, as a native New Yorker, that the years of Rudy’s mayoralty (and I had some buds pretty high up in that Admin) where just STRANGE years.Complete change of culture within city workforce. Sunshine laws were completely ignored, now “customer service” to the constitutents, public opinion counted for nothing.

He was VERY authoritatrian (so different from his USA days when ANYBODY regardless of rank could challenge a decision of his and he would listen with an open mind and often reverse himself if you had a good argument)

As Mayor, it was his way or the Highway. Over everything, no matter how small or insignifigant.

It wa like his evil twin was in office

MelodyMaker @ 149

Oklahoma kiddo @ 138

The prevailing concensus seems to be that Republican pols and the rank and file of the GOP loves George Bush.

Yeah. For some reason, I even kinda liked him in 2000. I didn’t believe a word he said, didn’t trust him, I thought he was a dangerous idiot, but somehow.. I see Rudy having some of that charm with regular folks too. again, yikes.

So what does it mean to the 20 percent (half the vote in ‘04 minus ~30% that still approve)? Would they vote for Bush again? This is what I don’t get about weekly polls vs. elections. Another freak like Bush could pull it off? Little help from the DOJ would help, I guess.

cleter @ 156

If you’re Newt, and you see Rudy pulling ahead of you, aren’t you going to go atomically negative on every hot-button issue that you can?

Umm, that would be the Newtie with his own steamer trunk full of bodies? :)

Ol’ Newtie’s gonna have to purchase some wholesale quantities of chutzpah (over and above what he already has) to pull that off.

Wolfowitz in Love

Wolfowitz Cites Confidentiality in World Bank Probe
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – World Bank President Paul Wolfowitz said he would protect the confidentiality of employee records as the institution’s board investigated the promotion of a staffer he is romantically involved with.

Wolfowitz told the bank’s staff in an e-mail on Monday that he would ensure the board has access to the facts in the case ”in a manner that also respects the bank’s rules concerning the right of every staff member to the confidentiality of his or her records.”

A copy of the letter was obtained by Reuters.

The board, made up of representatives of the bank’s 185 member countries, on Friday called for a probe into whether the promotion of the female staffer, Shaha Riza, possibly violated the bank’s staff rules.

…

NYT link

blastulae? I bet you looked that up.

Very interesting and thought-provoking post, Jane. I wish I could spout off some pithy and worthy remark, but you have hit on a host of notions well beyond Rudy Guiliani’s viability as a general election candidate and why he could be elected.

Your statement about women who love men who hate women (or seek to control them, as has been posited in this thread) is a singular topic that has long intrigued me. For anyone interested in pursuing this, google “prairie muffin.” Read the manifesto. And the blogs. It’s a real eye-opener.

GSD @
79

Jeesh. Tony Blankley looks freakish as of late. He’s either very ill, or he’s on some diet/face-lift, tanning regimen that has left him looking like The Jeepers Creepers guy.

-GSD

I noticed that. He looks really odd without his hangdog folds. I think he’s had an eye-lid lift, lipo, and I don’t know what all.

AZ Matt @ 164

Wolfowitz in Love

Wolfowitz Cites Confidentiality in World Bank Probe
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – World Bank President Paul Wolfowitz said he would protect the confidentiality of employee records as the institution’s board investigated the promotion of a staffer he is romantically involved with.

Wolfowitz told the bank’s staff in an e-mail on Monday that he would ensure the board has access to the facts in the case ”in a manner that also respects the bank’s rules concerning the right of every staff member to the confidentiality of his or her records.”

A copy of the letter was obtained by Reuters.

The board, made up of representatives of the bank’s 185 member countries, on Friday called for a probe into whether the promotion of the female staffer, Shaha Riza, possibly violated the bank’s staff rules.

…

NYT link

IOKIYAR….

As someone mentioned above, JOBS etc. I think the left can afford and needs to pull much more left than it is. The left can do this now and maintain the support of Independent / swing votes due to the disasterous wake up call Bush provided. The wingers are a lost cause for now, no matter what.

The soft-on-teh-gay, cross-dressing, pro-choice adulterous New Yorker will NOT be the winner of the crucial South Carolina primary if there is another Republican running. His fascist street cred will not carry the day. South Carolina fundies are not going to vote for the Catholic Mayor of New Babylon.

It does not get any better than Amy Goodman’s Democracy Now. Well how about a tie with FDL

http://www.democracynow.org/

landofthefree @ 131

I may sound like a nutcase, but I think McCain will get the nod (barring any major health issue)

McCain would be nearly 1 1/2 years older than Ronald Reagan was when he became President. McCain is already 70 years old

cleter @
156

I must respectfully disagree with Jane on this one. I think a lot of the actual GOP primary voters do care about abortion and are uneasy with Rudy over it. And while many of them would suck it up and vote for Rudy over Hillary in the general, you are mistaken if you think he will get a pass on this in the primaries. If you’re Newt, and you see Rudy pulling ahead of you, aren’t you going to go atomically negative on every hot-button issue that you can?

Abortion isn’t so much the issue with the wingnuts. It’s not about the poor little “babies” it’s about the power of men over women, who controls it and how. As long as Rudy is a bonafide authoritarian, they will vote for him, or they won’t show up at all. They certainly won’t cross over to the dems side. On this issue, I think Lakoff got it right. It is about control and the strong protector daddy.

barf.

JPL: Huckabee! Forgot about him. It’s funny because he seems actually genuine and likeable, and he’s probably the only truly religious one of the bunch (except maybe pro-choice/pro-gay Mitt), which of course means he has no chance.

Newt may be a winner with the rightwing faithful, but he’s so unlikeable and so prone to say outrageous shit that I would welcome him.

Even though he’s shrewd, calculating and ruthless he’s got icky written all over him.

By the way. The latest Rasmussen Poll hade John Edwards beating every Republican in the field.

-GSD

cleter @ 156

If you’re Newt, and you see Rudy pulling ahead of you, aren’t you going to go atomically negative on every hot-button issue that you can?

Does Noot ever not do that? It’s his trademark and he knows no other way.

ralphbon @ 150

Can we drop the infantile fun-making about cross-dressing? It was a costume for a skit. Ignore the bullshit sideshows, and nail this bastard for his straight-up vileness…

Well as Jesus’ General would say, those of us who are manly men and 110% heterosexual have to draw the line somewhere. *g*

El_Hornito @ 172

JPL: Huckabee! Forgot about him. It’s funny because he seems actually genuine and likeable, and he’s probably the only truly religious one of the bunch (except maybe pro-choice/pro-gay Mitt), which of course means he has no chance.

at least Huckabee comes across as genuine when talking about the faith that informs his politics. not my cup of tea by a long shot, but that apparent sincerity certainly contrasts with the rest of the gooper field.

Wait a minute!

Are we seriously talking like Newt, NEWT has a snowball’s chnace in hell?

That’s just crazy people.

Awesome post, Jane. You understand the “lizard brains” like no one else, and you know how to put your finger on exactly what it is that’s so disgusting about them. It’s really uplifting to come home from a hard day at work to read this.

Love,
Riesz

looseheadprop @ 177

Wait a minute!

Are we seriously talking like Newt, NEWT has a snowball’s chnace in hell?

That’s just crazy people.

Naw, they’ll send in the Gooper Scooper for him soon.

Eureka Springs @ 120

PW – Interesting points, however, when Bush is utterly defeated and he will be although it is not certain at what point in the campaign season it will fall. Hagel could be the new uber-daddy who helps them move on… (No fan of Hagel at all..just trying to keep one eye one the horizon) Hagel would be disasterous for Dems, if repubs wake up in time, especially if he is up against Hillary or Obama. Except the Iraqi fiasco would end quickly.

Oh, I hear you. If there were any sane people left in the Republican base, I would fear Hagel as I fear no other Republican, Rudy included. But the sane ones have all bailed.

1,481 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..

Citizen oklahoma kiddo:

Keep on keepin’ on about Mrs. Clinton…but just a suggestion, don’t compare her stupids with the Clusterfuck and don’t ferget to keep hammerin’ away on her snuggle with Rupert Murdoch. Mrs. Clinton is more dangerous than ANY of the other fascist thugs runnin’ because she ken put a happy face back on the demon. She is dangerous to the anti-fascist Democratic Party because she’s the only Democratic candidate that I think can lose to the Nazis.

Justice for the Palestinians… get the Clinton’s out of our politics!

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION.

Another 12 names and faces of dead soldiers and marines given their 3 seconds each at the end of Newshour. Whenever they post more I find I have to stop what I’m doing and pay attention to those young men and women who died, for what?

Enough already! Stop it. Now.

If Guiliani could get elected to a higher position than Mayor of New York, he would be in that position now. Mayor of New York is a terminal position.

I work with genuine southern GOP primary voters, and they admire Rudy’s willingness to herd brown people into deathcamps, but the politically engaged ones also consider him the pussy who was scared of Hillary and dropped out of the Senate race. Backing down from the Demon Bride of Clinton does not help your he-man cred amongst these people.

AZ Matt @ 160

Wolfowitz in Love

Wolfowitz told the bank’s staff in an e-mail on Monday that he would ensure the board has access to the facts in the case ”in a manner that also respects the bank’s rules concerning the right of every staff member to the confidentiality of his or her records.”

It always interesting to see how Bush people ignore the rules until the investigation begins and then the rules come back with a vengeance.

GSD @ 174

Newt may be a winner with the rightwing faithful, but he’s so unlikeable and so prone to say outrageous shit that I would welcome him.

Even though he’s shrewd, calculating and ruthless he’s got icky written all over him.

By the way. The latest Rasmussen Poll hade John Edwards beating every Republican in the field.

-GSD

Thanks for the news from the latest Rasmussen Poll – helped lift my spirits – now if we can just succeed in letting former Pres. Gore know we’ve got his back and Edwards would be a splendid choice for VP. And I don’t want to hear any of that mindless fussing that a southern democratic ticket can’t win the White House – Gore and Clinton already proved it can.

GSD @ 175

Newt may be a winner with the rightwing faithful, but he’s so unlikeable and so prone to say outrageous shit that I would welcome him.

Even though he’s shrewd, calculating and ruthless he’s got icky written all over him.

By the way. The latest Rasmussen Poll hade John Edwards beating every Republican in the field.

-GSD

And Rasmussen’s a Republican pollster, so you can usually shave 1-2% from the Republicans’ numbers and add them to the Democrats to get the true figure. (That being said, I shouldn’t diss Rasmussen too hard; their bias is at least regular and predictable and thus easy to make allowances for. I like them loads better than SurveyUSA who are all over the damned map.)

NorskeFlamethrower @ 183

1,481 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..

Citizen oklahoma kiddo:

Keep on keepin’ on about Mrs. Clinton…but just a suggestion, don’t compare her stupids with the Clusterfuck and don’t ferget to keep hammerin’ away on her snuggle with Rupert Murdoch. Mrs. Clinton is more dangerous than ANY of the other fascist thugs runnin’ because she ken put a happy face back on the demon. She is dangerous to the anti-fascist Democratic Party because she’s the only Democratic candidate that I think can lose to the Nazis.

Justice for the Palestinians… get the Clinton’s out of our politics!

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION.

;0)

I am afeared of Hagel, and slightly afeared of Huckabee. Remember what happened last time an obscure Arkansas governor ran. I am not worried about Rudy getting the nomination. The GOP is melting down to a southren fundamentalist party. They aren’t going to nominate a New Yorker. A Catholic. A pro-choice New Yorker.

The phrase I use to describe Rudy to my GOP associates is “pro-choice New Yorker–just like Hillary! Except Hillary respects the sanctity of marriage.” It works like a charm.

Breaking news– Imus is suspended for 2 weeks!

Bullshit. To paraphrase our hero, Holy Joe,

We cannot, we will not let this stand!

punaise @ 178

El_Hornito @ 172

JPL: Huckabee! Forgot about him. It’s funny because he seems actually genuine and likeable, and he’s probably the only truly religious one of the bunch (except maybe pro-choice/pro-gay Mitt), which of course means he has no chance.

at least Huckabee comes across as genuine when talking about the faith that informs his politics. not my cup of tea by a long shot, but that apparent sincerity certainly contrasts with the rest of the gooper field.

This sort of thing will be Huckabee’s undoing amongst the RWAs–being soft on murderers won’t sit well with them. And, I have no doubt this would be a perfect issue for someone like Rudy to flog….

montag @ 168

AZ Matt @ 164

Wolfowitz in Love

Wolfowitz Cites Confidentiality in World Bank Probe
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – World Bank President Paul Wolfowitz said he would protect the confidentiality of employee records as the institution’s board investigated the promotion of a staffer he is romantically involved with.

Wolfowitz told the bank’s staff in an e-mail on Monday that he would ensure the board has access to the facts in the case ”in a manner that also respects the bank’s rules concerning the right of every staff member to the confidentiality of his or her records.”

A copy of the letter was obtained by Reuters.

The board, made up of representatives of the bank’s 185 member countries, on Friday called for a probe into whether the promotion of the female staffer, Shaha Riza, possibly violated the bank’s staff rules.

…

NYT link

IOKIYAR….

Wolfowitz one of the main architects of the Iraqi war slipped out of the Bush administrations back door. Who knows for how long?

http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bi…..gi/30/6069

spurious @
38

The modern GOP has become the party of men who hate women and the women who love them

Beautiful!

pouring bacon grease onto the mustard greens

Actually, this sounds delicious.

Just ’cause they can’t think, doesn’t mean they can’t cook!

cleter @ 185

If Guiliani could get elected to a higher position than Mayor of New York, he would be in that position now. Mayor of New York is a terminal position.

I work with genuine southern GOP primary voters, and they admire Rudy’s willingness to herd brown people into deathcamps, but the politically engaged ones also consider him the pussy who was scared of Hillary and dropped out of the Senate race. Backing down from the Demon Bride of Clinton does not help your he-man cred amongst these people.

That was hysterical

The DLC is a greedy little corporate supporting fascist outfit which was strongly in favor of the Bush invasion of Iraq. Sen. Hillary Clinton has deep roots and connections to the DLC. I want to get rid of the DLC and I would very much like to see a better Democrat replace Clinton. And I do not want Hillary for prez!

looseheadprop @ 179

Wait a minute!

Are we seriously talking like Newt, NEWT has a snowball’s chnace in hell?

That’s just crazy people.

I agree lhp.
Como se llama? How do you say Newt in Spanish? Newt would know..

If Imus is suspended for 2 weeks, can we please also have a 2 week break from seeing Glenn Beck, O’Reilly, Coulter & all the rest that are equally offensive??

montag @ 192 – thanks.

with apologies to any Wayne’s present, what is it about the criminals named Wayne?

How the Huckabee administration worked to free rapist Wayne Dumond.

1,481 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON ADN ON AND..

Citizen newspaperbrat:

Gore/Edwards…
Right on but just to correct a point…the Democratic Party can NOT win a general election in the USA without at least one “southerner” on the ticket. That’s the meaning of the assasin’s bullet(s) in 1963 and the Civil Rights Act of 1964…both actions reinfranchised the old antebellum political South.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION THERE ARE PLENTY OF TARGETS FOR EVERYONE!!

Riesz Fischer @ 190

Breaking news– Imus is suspended for 2 weeks!

Bullshit. To paraphrase our hero, Holy Joe,

We cannot, we will not let this stand!

I agree completely – and what do you suggest we the people do about such stupidity?

The phrase I use to describe Rudy to my GOP associates is “pro-choice New Yorker–just like Hillary! Except Hillary respects the sanctity of marriage.” It works like a charm.

Cleter Is on a roll!

Huckabee will never make it beyond the 30 percenters.. He is not as skilled at BS as Bush and just about as stoopid.

kathleen @ 193

looseheadprop @ 179

Wait a minute!

Are we seriously talking like Newt, NEWT has a snowball’s chnace in hell?

That’s just crazy people.

I agree lhp.
Como se llama? How do you say Newt in Spanish? Newt would know..

pendejo

“Is Giuliani’s ship starting to sink? It certainly looks that way. Unfortunately, it may be taking the Republican Party’s best presidential prospect down with it.”

Actually I liked the soap opera like quality tid bits of this guy’s life….

Aside from that….

Adios, Pendaho!

newspaperbrat @ 201

Riesz Fischer @ 190

Breaking news– Imus is suspended for 2 weeks!

Bullshit. To paraphrase our hero, Holy Joe,

We cannot, we will not let this stand!

I agree completely – and what do you suggest we the people do about such stupidity?

I think Sharpton’s going to organize a boycott of Imus’ sponsors and I will certainly honor it.

FYI, new thread

The GOP nomination is pretty much decided by the 30 percenters. They might actually kind of like Huckabee. Besides, who else will still be standing after all the mean-spirited adulterers stick shivs in each other? The GOP primaries are going to be like the end of Reservoir Dogs.

This is our chance to dump Imus– he does an enormous amount of harm to the political discourse in this country. He’s largely responsible for the fact that derision and ridicule play such a decisive role in politics, and that is a distinct advantage for the lizard brains.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 130

I will say this… I like Hagel on Iraq far more than Hillary. And yes, I know his other positions. Could I vote for him, probably not. But Clinton? Whoa. Hillary is a stooge of the Israeli government and just as stupid and stubborn as Bush on Iraq.

Hillary has changed the tune that she was singing a year ago about Iran. This is good. Although she still needs to explain her vote for the 2002 war resolution. Hillary and other reps horseshit response “if only we knew then what we know now” just does not get it.

Did our reps see intelligence that was handed to them by the radicals that they are not allowed to talk about?
Of were they just completely playing the game.

Christ all mighty before the invasion a 55 year old soccer mom living in south eastern Ohio heard Zbigniew Brezinski, Madeline Albright, Jimmy Carter, General Zinni, Swarzkopf and many more question the wisdom of a pre-emptive attack.

That same soccer mom heard Scott Ritter, Cia analyst, El Baradei and many many more question the validity of the intelligence . Please Hillary enough of the “if only we knew then what we know now” horseshit. You have just got to come up with something better than that.

Hillary will focus on a National Health care plan I do know that.

Riesz Fischer @ 205

newspaperbrat @ 201

Riesz Fischer @ 190

Breaking news– Imus is suspended for 2 weeks!

Bullshit. To paraphrase our hero, Holy Joe,

We cannot, we will not let this stand!

I agree completely – and what do you suggest we the people do about such stupidity?

I think Sharpton’s going to organize a boycott of Imus’ sponsors and I will certainly honor it.

Has Reverend Jackson weighed in – or Obama – sorry I’ve been too busy today to keep current on the creepy Imus story. Wouldn’t it be grand if the conscious men of the nation weigh in and demand brother Imus’ sorry ass get kicked of the air for life instead of a couple of weeks. He really is one of the great embarrassments of real men here, there and everywhere.

conniptionfit @
194

spurious @
38

The modern GOP has become the party of men who hate women and the women who love them

Beautiful!

pouring bacon grease onto the mustard greens

Actually, this sounds delicious.

Just ’cause they can’t think, doesn’t mean they can’t cook!

They are absolutely delicious.

The “unborn child” is what they profess to care about because what they really care about are self-determined urban women with lives of their own who take their jobs away and have sex and don’t bake quite enough pies, and they hate ‘em. But that’s not okay to say so we get yet another chorus of “Every Sperm is Sacred.”

God, Jane, I love the way you say things!

I have a number of deeply religious Catholics in my family. Most of them (save one wingnut brother) are progressive on most issues, particularly economic issues, and don’t like George Bush. But they are, for the most part, deeply anti-abortion; I no longer try to argue about that with any of them unless they come out with a whopper (like “abortionists are in it for the money” or “it’s scientifically proven that life begins at conception”). I’m afraid the Church has sold them on that one. That doesn’t mean they won’t vote for pro-choice Democrats, in many cases they do, because it isn’t the only issue that matters.

For them, I think that if the Republicans nominate someone like Giuliani, it will make them more comfortable voting for the Democrat, because it takes an issue off the table for them.

Who came up with the idiotic phrase “America’s Mayor”? It’s so ridiculous. It sounds like they’re selling a hamburger franchise or something.

Also, when Rudy talks about the Global War on Terror (GWOT) why does he never criticize Bush for not catching the man who orchestrated the attack that killed so many of his constituents?! Rudy supposedly has this “law-and-order” reputation…except in this instance.

President Rudy Guiliani declared today ‘Honorary Haitian Immigrant Day.’

Free nightsticks for all law enforcement officers.

One of the things that used to be true, at any rate, about Catholics is that they didn’t tend to expect the government to make law to agree with their religion. Maybe it’s different, but Catholics felt that regular prople could do what they liked, but Catholics got married before sex (well, that was the story), didn’t have abortions (well that was the plan), went to Mass every Sunday. I’m so old I remember women wearing hats in church and not eating meat on Fridays. We didn’t think that Baptists or Episcopalians should have to do what we did. I mean really, that’s what made us (ahem) better than them.

Don’t know how it is nowadays.

President Hillary Clinton today declared ‘Code Pink’ an ‘Enemy Combatant’ association.

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 218

President Hillary Clinton today declared ‘Code Pink’ an ‘Enemy Combatant’ association.

What!!!!!! Linky please?

Riesz Fischer @ 209

This is our chance to dump Imus– he does an enormous amount of harm to the political discourse in this country. He’s largely responsible for the fact that derision and ridicule play such a decisive role in politics, and that is a distinct advantage for the lizard brains.

Don Imus reminds me of someone in a film called King of All Flea Markets

Unappetizing as a Hillary-Rudy race might be (and I think there’s a chance that that’s just what we’ll get, alas), as a wise man once pointed out, things can always get worse.

Rudy would be worse. If Matt above, Glenn’s article, the other Salon article that Glenn links to, some old Steve Gilliard posts, Wayne Barrett’s articles and books, and Giuliani’s behavior post-Louima, post-Diallo, etc., aren’t enough for you, there’s his race-baiting and cop-whoring behavior leading up to his first mayoral victory in NYC. This is what set the stage for those subsequent atrocities, and should be web-documented as a reminder to those who might think he’ll be “different once he’s in office.”

One, at least a non-authoritarian one, might also conclude that Rudy’s demonstrated open contempt for what anyone not a made reprobate might think about what he does puts him in line to race the current occupant to the bottom of any ranking one might compile.

If the rico party gop nominate Rudy I would knock people over to vote for whomever the Democrats nominate.

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 220

Riesz Fischer @ 209

This is our chance to dump Imus– he does an enormous amount of harm to the political discourse in this country. He’s largely responsible for the fact that derision and ridicule play such a decisive role in politics, and that is a distinct advantage for the lizard brains.

Don Imus reminds me of someone in a film called King of All Flea Markets

That would be interesting. Perhaps other Mouths on TV would take notice?

HotFlash @ 219

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 218

President Hillary Clinton today declared ‘Code Pink’ an ‘Enemy Combatant’ association.

What!!!!!! Linky please?

‘president’ not ’senator’ = ’satire’ :-]

newspaperbrat @
187

GSD @ 174

Newt may be a winner with the rightwing faithful, but he’s so unlikeable and so prone to say outrageous shit that I would welcome him.

Even though he’s shrewd, calculating and ruthless he’s got icky written all over him.

By the way. The latest Rasmussen Poll hade John Edwards beating every Republican in the field.

-GSD

Thanks for the news from the latest Rasmussen Poll – helped lift my spirits – now if we can just succeed in letting former Pres. Gore know we’ve got his back and Edwards would be a splendid choice for VP. And I don’t want to hear any of that mindless fussing that a southern democratic ticket can’t win the White House – Gore and Clinton already proved it can.

I’ve said it before, Edwards is the most ethical politician America has produced in my generation. Mr. Edwards, if you do not win the Presidency, please become a Canadian citizen and run for office up here, we also have a dearth of leaders with integrity. Elizabeth and the kids would love it here in Canada.

guiliani is our Benito goddammit!!!

edwards would be liberal leader and pm for two decades in canada

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 223

HotFlash @ 219

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 218

President Hillary Clinton today declared ‘Code Pink’ an ‘Enemy Combatant’ association.

What!!!!!! Linky please?

‘president’ not ’senator’ = ’satire’ :-]

Mable, you had me skeered! But I hear the Hill did say she would not Fox.

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 226

edwards would be liberal leader and pm for two decades in canada

Don’t want no more Liberals up here. NDP.

newt gingrich starring as ‘newt’ in ‘Older Gentleman Just Wants to help Aspiring Actress He meets on her Night Shift at the Coffee Place…’

Mabel’s Wig Shack @
225

guiliani is our Benito goddammit!!!

Giuliani is a liar. Steven Levitt & Stephen Dubner’s book FREAKONOMICS have statistical evidence on what really caused the drop in the crime rate for Noo York and all of America; which was happening before Rude-ee became Mayor. It is a great read and makes for insightful discussions, any thoughts of having them on the lake?

Edwards as NDP?………..ya think?

HotFlash @ 228

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 226

edwards would be liberal leader and pm for two decades in canada

Don’t want no more Liberals up here. NDP.

NDP will never rule Canada, I will take a Liberal government any day over Harper or any PC. If we keep expecting a ‘perfect’ Liberal PM, the PCs will keep winning, which is what happened in America. They kept hammering every Democrat for NOT being perfect, and look who they ended up with.

looseheadprop@161:

Rudy was different when he first started out although he was always authoritarian. Federal days were great and we all appreciated that work that prosecutors did with Manhattan North.

The weirdest things that happened were when DEA supervisors would drive through the neighborhood, see cars that they wanted as POVs and then call us at the precinct to get our guys to do car stops so they could come and impound the car when the driver couldn’t show a source of income for it. Then they’d give the guy a receipt for it on a paper towel and our guys were completely removed from it…no log entries, no nothing.

One supervisor I knew took an entire building with all the furnishings on W.116th Street and left a receipt on a ripped piece of paper.

Absolutely amazing.

Yes, Latagano was a disgrace especially when her salary was continually increased to astronomical amounts while the rank and file couldn’t get a fair contract.

Then again, there weren’t many of them on their knees in his office either.

Noticing people mentioning Catholicism on a few posts, and at least one observation that anti-abortion sentiments spring largely from misogyny, and, moreover, reflect a political aspiration to dominate and control women…well, I remember my Irish Catholic grandmother, who lived upstairs of us in Chicago back in the 50s, opining sotto voce that “if men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.” Her daughter, aka my mom, would devise her own version of this truth by announcing non-sotto voce that “if men carried every other child to birth, no family would have more than three kids.” Funny how cultural conditioning stuff works. They were telling me these things and I was a male. Not yet a man, but male. And now I give more credence to their perceptions than to most theologians. I mean, respectable theologians.

Did anyone see Fallwell on CNN the other night saying basically that he would vote for an atheist for president if he thought he was the right man for the job?

He was harping on the War on Terra and how the country basically has never been in such danger and what it needs most is someone who understands this.

He seemed to be modifying the Xtian Right stand on presidential candidates having to be anti-gay and anti-abortion as long as they were strong on security issues. Never thought I’d hear this from one of them.

He may just have been coming to the conclusion that if it isn’t Giuliani it is going to be somebody he finds morally offensive so he’s preparing the faithful.

Woo Hoo, once again Jane kicks some a**.

You tell it lady !

“Once you go through something you think will kill you and it doesn’t, every day is like a present.” – Elissa B. Terris

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 231

Edwards as NDP?………..ya think?

No.

Petrocelli @ 232

HotFlash @ 228

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 226

edwards would be liberal leader and pm for two decades in canada

Don’t want no more Liberals up here. NDP.

NDP will never rule Canada, I will take a Liberal government any day over Harper or any PC. If we keep expecting a ‘perfect’ Liberal PM, the PCs will keep winning, which is what happened in America. They kept hammering every Democrat for NOT being perfect, and look who they ended up with.

Gimme a break. Like who? Cretien? Martin? They are little c corrupt, the Conservatives are capital C corrupt. And what does this have to do with who the US Supreme court appointed to the US presidency?

Thanks Jane,

Your words that I have just read are probably the best I have ever read on the subject.
Your hammer hit every nail squarely.

Thanks for keeping me sane.

Rudy’s abortion comments give cover to the Democrats who just will not vote for Hillary, Obama or Edwards.

That there was some good analyzin’.

Great stuff and some great comments. I don’t know what happened to Rudy, either. He seems like he was once a basically good and intelligent person, but power has corrupted him utterly.

I do believe that in the lizard brain calculus, being an authoritarian, vindictive bastard wins out over the abortion litmus test.

What I really want to know is, which Catholic bishop is willing to call Rudy out on abortion? Or does the Catholic church only get involved when it’s a Democrat?

fahrender @83

It is indeed a small little TN world. I was happy to be gone after the year. Sure there are some good folks there, but its just a little too insulated for me.

Really interesting analysis of Rudy… not sure I agree with it all, but I agree with a central premise that people like him because they think he’s going to stick it people they perceive as enemies.

My own theory is that Rudy is using a real-life variation of the George Costanza “Do the Opposite” strategy. The comment in South Caroline about how he won’t work to change abortion law was deliberate and who knows, maybe it really will work. Your analysis that a lot of voters won’t honestly care does make a lot of sense.

I hadn’t thought about it this way before, but I suspect Jane is right. It has never made sense that they don’t give a hoot about full-grown people but care deeply about a fetus. What they care about is authority and money. And Rudy appears to be leaving plenty of room for the wing-nuts on abortion, such as the expectation of appointing conservative judges who will change the law. There is an opening now for a bit of a “maverick” too, with McCain flaming out, just as long as he is also an authoritarian. And there’s no competition. So playing both side of abortion could be a vote-getter, especially when he says he hates it (he’s just a law and order man and just has to follow the law as it is, you see).

And Rudy can’t distinguish the motives of Sunnis and Shiites. They’re all the same to him.

He was mayor of New York, so, from what circle would he draw his aides, advisors, etc.?

He was dumb enough to recommend Kerik (he had knowledge of Kerik’s background) for Sec. of DHS can you imagine what kind of an inner circle this guy would dredge up.

So, the maximum mayor keeps his wingnut base despite making public his contrarian views on roe v. wade. Is that really enough to make him a contender?

I’ve never seen any television footage of 9/11, including anything having to do with Rudy, so I can’t relate to the allusions in your blog entry to that period. I guess whatever transformation lhd observed in the public persona could be attributed to that, but more likely it has to do with his presidential ambitions.

All in all, he’s an extremely unlikely candidate for president for most people, but the logical successor to GWB if indeed into the abyss is where the country should be headed.

I have to go with Josh Marshall on this. A pro-choice Republican candidate? Where are the supporters of that? In the GOP, symbolism is a big part of the game–with a pro-choice candidate, a large part of the famous base will be supporting someone like Same Brownback–this year the Christian right is far less concerned with winning for the GOP, and much more concerned about showing themselves, if no one else, that they really are the incarnation of their (usually nutty) values.

alank @
248

So, the maximum mayor keeps his wingnut base despite making public his contrarian views on roe v. wade. Is that really enough to make him a contender?

I’ve never seen any television footage of 9/11, including anything having to do with Rudy, so I can’t relate to the allusions in your blog entry to that period. I guess whatever transformation lhd observed in the public persona could be attributed to that, but more likely it has to do with his presidential ambitions.

All in all, he’s an extremely unlikely candidate for president for most people, but the logical successor to GWB if indeed into the abyss is where the country should be headed.

The only people that he will genuinely appeal to is the non-religious right segment of those thirty percenters. Independents for Rudy? i doubt it, not in significant numbers.