Jane!

TRex!

Jesus!

hi pach

Pach!

Happy Easter, or Happy Spring-Holiday-of-your-choice!

And happy Passover!

Oops, Pach!!

My favorite cartoon is an Easter Cartoon of two Chocolate Bunnies.
One has it’s ears bitten off and the other has it butt chewed.
Butt chewed bunny says. “My butt hurts”!
Earless Bunny. “What?”
I will look for a link….

Evening, Pach. I wonder how many commandments Bush and Co have broken. I think we might have a case of ten out of ten.

And: Elisandra Elexy!!

Thanks, Pach. And best wishes to you & your partner in this exciting new move.

Peace, all.

Speaking of Easter, from WaPo:

Justice’s Holy Hires

By Dahlia Lithwick
Sunday, April 8, 2007; Page B02

Monica Goodling had a problem. As senior counsel to Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales and Justice Department liaison to the White House, she no longer seemed to know what the truth was. She also must have been increasingly unclear about who her superiors were. This didn’t used to be a problem for Goodling. Everything was once very certain: Her boss’s truth was always the same as God’s truth. Her boss was always either God or one of His staffers.

Last week, through counsel, Goodling again refused to testify about her role in the firings of several U.S. attorneys for what appear to be partisan reasons. Asserting her Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination, she somehow thought she might be on the hook for criminal obstruction. Then on Friday, she resigned, giving no reason.

….

Start digging, and Goodling also looks to be the Forrest Gump of no comments: Here she is in 1997 fielding calls from reporters to the admissions office of Regent’s School of Government. Asked whether non-Christians were admitted, she explained that “we admit all students without discrimination. We are a Christian institution; it is assumed that everyone in the classes are Christians.” Here, in 2004, she’s answering calls at the Justice Department about whether then-Deputy Solicitor General Paul D. Clement knew about the abuse at Iraq’s Abu Ghraib prison when he told the Supreme Court that the United States does not torture. Said Goodling, in lieu of taking the Fifth: “We wouldn’t have any comment.”

Goodling is one of 150 graduates of Regent University who have served in this administration, as Regent’s Web site proudly proclaims. Pretty impressive for a 29-year-old school. The university says that “approximately one out of every six Regent alumni is employed in some form of government work.” And that’s precisely what its founder desired. The school’s motto is “Christian Leadership to Change the World.” Former attorney general John Ashcroft teaches at Regent, and graduates have obtained senior positions in the Bush administration. The express goal is not only to tear down the wall between church and state in America but also to enmesh the two.

…

WaPo Link

i saw this and was very uplifted by the basic message that christianity is about a lot more than abortion and homosexuality. and it’s at cnn! yummy!

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/…..index.html

Agreed, this gang is so far from actual Chrisitanity it’s scary.

Good luck with the move, Pach. I hope it goes smoothly and you and your partner have many more happy years together. :)

These are the signs I put up today:

http://freewayblogger.blogspot…..ntest.html

From “Bush Condoms” to Easter . . . You’ve got to love this place.

And Mahalia . . . wow.

Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. (Verse 9)

Bunch o’ dang hippie peaceniks! Bunch o’ terrist appeasers! Blame Ameruhkuh first crowd!

Why does Jesus hate Ameruhkuh?

Hey gang!

Bil @
8

My favorite cartoon is an Easter Cartoon of two Chocolate Bunnies.
One has it’s ears bitten off and the other has it butt chewed.
Butt chewed bunny says. “My butt hurts”!
Earless Bunny. “What?”
I will look for a link….

Best I could find. It seems to have been commercialized into a million spam tshirt sites.
http://www.dork.tv/view/Conversation Between Chocolate Easter Bunnies.html

The Sermon on the Mount says it all for me. It is the reason I call myself a Christian. It may sound contradictory, but I don’t need the literal Jesus to be real in order to call myself a follower of Him. If it’s all a figment of human imagination, it does not make those truths about how to live and treat our brothers and sisters any less true.

There may be something in the human brain that responds to the need for a ‘power greater than oneself’. I think that it can lead to better mental and emotional health and an understanding that we are in control only of our selves and our actions. As babies, we think we control everything – that our anger or our fear can shatter the world. To realize that we are not in control of external things and people makes for a healthier and saner existence, so it may be a hard-wiring brain thing.

Whatever it is, it works for me, so it doesn’t matter whether it’s physically or literally true.

Happy Easter!

Happy Easter to you too Pach and to honor the occasion here is one of my favorite Peeps links:)

Peep Surgery

Thanks so much for including that Mahalia vid. Beautiful!

scarlet p. @ 15

These are the signs I put up today:

http://freewayblogger.blogspot…..ntest.html

STILL LOL. i hope it didn’t cause too many accidents from people laughing so hard!

Blessed are the Peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God.
“Course you saw what He did to His son, right?

Something I want on a bumper sticker or bracelet or whatever:

WWPPD

or, What Would the Prince of Peace Do?

I can’t help but think, not much of this. Wonder if it might actually make others pause for a moment. Hmmm.

Alternativly
http://youtube.com/watch?v=J2drE7DPBto

Christy had a great comment this morning on the Pull Up a Chair thread, replying to a comment about Headline News’ Glenn Beck.: “Christianity is something that you do. Beck thinks of it as something that you say. Very different concepts.”

Amen.

conniptionfit @ 24

Blessed are the Peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God.
“Course you saw what He did to His son, right?

You mean, what the religious leaders and occupying ruler did to God’s son, right?

Bill at #8–I love that cartoon. I got Demetrius to do that graphic for our Cafe Press store.

We’d planned to use the chocolate rabbit he modeled for some other things, like the “Make mine chocolate” theme–no pet live bunnies for Easter.

Alas, the holiday snuck up on me. I realized yesterday morning that, gee, I guess it’s too late to do more Easter designs at this point. Well, at least for this year.

“Blessed are the cheesemakers?”

“Aha, what’s so special about the cheesemakers?

“Well, obviously it’s not meant to be taken literally; it refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.”

Suzanne @
9

Evening, Pach. I wonder how many commandments Bush and Co have broken. I think we might have a case of ten out of ten.

Quick survey:
You shall have no other gods before Me/
You shall not make for yourself an idol - BROKEN, elsewhere in the Bible lust for power/ego is considered to be idolatrous
You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God – BROKEN, daily if not hourly
Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy – NOT BROKEN.. he so seldomly works anyway
Honor your parents – BROKEN.. has a huge daddy complex and ignores all parental guidance
You shall not murder – BROKEN, rather prolifically
You shall not commit adultery – NOT BROKEN, so far as we know
You shall not steal – BROKEN, from the poor, American taxpayers, Iraqi oil, etc etc
You shall not bear false witness – BROKEN
You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife - NOT BROKEN, so far as we know
You shall not covet your neighbor’s house – BROKEN, not sure how precisely, but what heck.

So 7/10.

Speaking of peeps, have you seen the photo gallery of Peep dioramas people created for a contest at WaPo?
Peeps, peeps, and more peeps!

Funny and scary at the same time.

Alicia @ 30

“Blessed are the cheesemakers?”

“Aha, what’s so special about the cheesemakers?

“Well, obviously it’s not meant to be taken literally; it refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.”

And how do you say “Romans, go home”?

;)

Blub @ 31

Suzanne @
9

Evening, Pach. I wonder how many commandments Bush and Co have broken. I think we might have a case of ten out of ten.

Quick survey:
You shall have no other gods before Me/
You shall not make for yourself an idol - BROKEN, elsewhere in the Bible lust for power/ego is considered to be idolatrous
You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God – BROKEN, daily if not hourly
Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy – NOT BROKEN.. he so seldomly works anyway
Honor your parents – BROKEN.. has a huge daddy complex and ignores all parental guidance
You shall not murder – BROKEN, rather prolifically
You shall not commit adultery – NOT BROKEN, so far as we know
You shall not steal – BROKEN, from the poor, American taxpayers, Iraqi oil, etc etc
You shall not bear false witness – BROKEN
You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife - NOT BROKEN, so far as we know
You shall not covet your neighbor’s house – BROKEN, not sure how precisely, but what heck.

So 7/10.

Gods before him – BROKEN – The Gods of War & Power

Wow, Pach. That was a wonderful post. I am not religious, but grew up mainstream protestant. There are lots of Bible verses that the whole republican party might want to take a look at. Good verses.

I’m sure there are other Holy books they could learn from too.

Even though I’m not religious, I have the greatest respect for all religions.

greenwarrior @
34

Gods before him – BROKEN – The Gods of War & Power

Yep. Got that one covered.. it’s the same as the idolatory commandment for Catholics, Lutherans and Episcopalians.. I’m one of those :)

Bil @
19

Bil @
8

My favorite cartoon is an Easter Cartoon of two Chocolate Bunnies.
One has it’s ears bitten off and the other has it butt chewed.
Butt chewed bunny says. “My butt hurts”!
Earless Bunny. “What?”
I will look for a link….

Best I could find. It seems to have been commercialized into a million spam tshirt sites.
http://www.dork.tv/view/Conversation Between Chocolate Easter Bunnies.html

Well THAT Bil didn’t know what HE was doing. Try this one! Thanks Renee at 29! I have been passing this cartoon back on Easter day among some friends from college for maaany years. Obviously I don’t look for it until Easter…
Another hour and a half b4 resurrectin here!
http://smilesunlimited.net/photo5/bunny.shtml

I was raised Catholic and am now Episcopalian. I had been determined to stay Catholic and raise my kids in the church, even though I was marrying an “unbeliever”. And even though there were more and more things in the church that I was finding myself uncomforable with. And I’d been going to the same progressive campus church for years but had been utterly unable to make any real connections there–still felt like an outsider.

Finally, Godde dropped a giant clue on me in the form of my special needs/gifted son who fit in as well in Sunday school as a square peg in a round hole. The situation was no fun at the time, but served the purpose of moving me towards the place where I belong.

From my Blog Against Theocracy post…

On the most basic level, it goes against *my* understanding of what my faith (actually all major faith traditions) requires of me, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” *I* wouldn’t want to be treated like a second class citizen because of my beliefs or lack thereof, so how can I, as someone who tries to follow the teachings of Jesus, condone or accept it when others are treated that way? Also, as a parent, I have learned a little bit about persuasion–or, more specifically, the types of persuasion that are most likely to backfire. I know that if you try to force something on someone, it could end up being the *last* thing they will choose.

My son is almost 14, and there was never a time in his life that he believed in God in any traditional sense. But he has fluctuated to some degree between agnostic and staunchly, almost evangelically atheistic. What makes the difference? When he has been around people who seem to have an agenda and want to push religion, he pushes back, digging in his heels and becoming more anti-religion. But when he’s been in an environment, such as the local Unitarian Universalist church where his “I don’t believe in God” was met with, “A lot of us don’t either”, then he has been more open to the “maybe” of God. So if my ultimate goal is for him to embrace Christianity, I’ve learned that the approach with the best chance of success would be a *really* soft sell. As in, acting like I don’t really care that much. And I wonder how many people out there in the world might be more open to religion if there weren’t people trying to force it on them.

I just found this “Peep jousting” link a little earlier this evening.

Blub @ 36

greenwarrior @
34

Gods before him – BROKEN – The Gods of War & Power

Yep. Got that one covered.. it’s the same as the idolatory commandment for Catholics, Lutherans and Episcopalians.. I’m one of those :)

Interestingly, for fundies, it’s different. The Gods before him one is separate from idolatry and, instead, they merge the two commandments about coveting neighbor’s stuff into one

The late Senator Paul Simon wrote a piece on religion and politics in a journal for Lutheran clergy, that closed like this:

* * *
All of us can learn and grow. Each of us lives our lives of faith inadequately and imperfectly.

We are not always just, but we can be searchers for justice.
We are not always understanding, but we can pursue understanding.
We are not always right, but we can seek what is right.
We do not always hold the truth, but we can search for the truth.
We do not have peace, but we can come much closer to it.
We do not see the future clearly, but we can improve our vision for a better nation and a better world.

* * *

Peace to you all.

Pach, thanks for the soul nourishing post that has good thoughts for all, even us non-believers. In my view, there is only one commandment for humanity: that which is hateful to you, do not do to another.

To follow this commandment will keep you busy all day and out of trouble for a lifetime.

South Park- The Fantastick Easter Special. In which Bill Donohue gets what’s coming to him.
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/video/50192/
if you get the opportunuty to watch the whole thing, you should. Laughed my ass off.
Warning: South Park!

Oh, and BTW, blessings and good wishes on your new home. May affection, respect and peace abide there…

scarlet p. @ 15

These are the signs I put up today:

http://freewayblogger.blogspot…..ntest.html

scarlet, the link didn’t work tonight. I love your work!

Thanks for the lovely Easter thoughts. I am a christian but I don’t go to church any longer. I stopped going to when they began to tell me how to vote. Now every Sunday morning I go to the beach. Its my way of setting aside time for God.

I developed my liberal/progressive beliefs because of what I learned when I became a christian many years ago – that God is inclusive, not exclusive. The right wing may have usurped the church-going experience, but there’s no way they can usurp my faith.

itwasntme @ 44

Oh, and BTW, blessings and good wishes on your new home. May affection, respect and peace abide there…

and snugglebunnies..

Of course, talking about my home may not in fact be an “appropriate subject for this blog.”

I wonder how the wingnuts would react to my big ol’ homo quotation of the Sermon on the Mount?

Devil quoting the scripture for his own purposes, no doubt.

conniptionfit @ 43

South Park- The Fantastick Easter Special. In which Bill Donohue gets what’s coming to him.
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/video/50192/
if you get the opportunuty to watch the whole thing, you should. Laughed my ass off.
Warning: South Park!

it was excellent!

Joshua ben Joseph had important things to say to all of humanity for all time. Jeebus, the god of the fundies, has lessons for humanity that are best consigned to the scrap-heap of history.

Pachacutec @
48

Of course, talking about my home may not in fact be an appropriate subject.

I wonder how the wingnuts would react to my big ol’ homo quotation of the Sermon on the Mount?

Devil quoting the scripture for his own purposes, no doubt.

Hey, what could be MORE appropriate? Isn’t it all about making a loving home for us ALL? What most tickes me off about the Republicans is that they’re shitting in MY house.

Pach, Best wishes on your new family home.

non Easter but is anyone watching SNL with the chipmonks?

Pach, happy home! I wish you both the best!

I’ve never been very religious. One parent Methodist, the other Baptist, and neither too obsessed with getting to church. Years later and they are both shocked to discover that I am atheist. Funny, somehow the good and reasoned views they taught me just seemed at odds with all their churches were trying to teach me.

Pachacutec @ 48

Of course, talking about my home may not in fact be an “appropriate subject for this blog.”

I wonder how the wingnuts would react to my big ol’ homo quotation of the Sermon on the Mount?

Devil quoting the scripture for his own purposes, no doubt.

Wishing you both lots of happiness, love and fun.

Rene,

I didn’t know you were CafePress! I’ve ordered from you before, and will again.

I’m signing off – so goodnight firebunnies and Happy Easter, Passover, Sunday or whatever else it is that makes you happy.

Wishing you both lots of happiness, love and fun.

That we have.

MADONNA: I am a Kabbalist. There is definitely a Kabbalistic approach to life or a Kabbalistic point of view, but it’s not different than a lot of other teachings. I study Hinduism; I study Buddhism; Taoism.

KING: You believe in a supreme being?

MADONNA: Absolutely. But I also believe that all paths lead to God.

http://www.cnn.com/SHOWBIZ/Mus…..donna.lkl/

Amen, and the sooner the politics and inseparable business of religion vanish from this earth the better. Not in my lifetime though.

Renee in Ohio @
38

I was raised Catholic and am now Episcopalian. I had been determined to stay Catholic and raise my kids in the church, even though I was marrying an “unbeliever”. And even though there were more and more things in the church that I was finding myself uncomforable with. And I’d been going to the same progressive campus church for years but had been utterly unable to make any real connections there–still felt like an outsider.

Finally, Godde dropped a giant clue on me in the form of my special needs/gifted son who fit in as well in Sunday school as a square peg in a round hole. The situation was no fun at the time, but served the purpose of moving me towards the place where I belong.

From my Blog Against Theocracy post…

On the most basic level, it goes against *my* understanding of what my faith (actually all major faith traditions) requires of me, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” *I* wouldn’t want to be treated like a second class citizen because of my beliefs or lack thereof, so how can I, as someone who tries to follow the teachings of Jesus, condone or accept it when others are treated that way? Also, as a parent, I have learned a little bit about persuasion–or, more specifically, the types of persuasion that are most likely to backfire. I know that if you try to force something on someone, it could end up being the *last* thing they will choose.

My son is almost 14, and there was never a time in his life that he believed in God in any traditional sense. But he has fluctuated to some degree between agnostic and staunchly, almost evangelically atheistic. What makes the difference? When he has been around people who seem to have an agenda and want to push religion, he pushes back, digging in his heels and becoming more anti-religion. But when he’s been in an environment, such as the local Unitarian Universalist church where his “I don’t believe in God” was met with, “A lot of us don’t either”, then he has been more open to the “maybe” of God. So if my ultimate goal is for him to embrace Christianity, I’ve learned that the approach with the best chance of success would be a *really* soft sell. As in, acting like I don’t really care that much. And I wonder how many people out there in the world might be more open to religion if there weren’t people trying to force it on them.

THANKS Renee, (peepjousting too, I think Christy put it up last year).
I missed the anti-theocracy weekend and relayed to DumpMicheleBachmann, my more regular anti-theocracy site.
Gods and Godesses bless everyone, no exceptions.

a friend of mine used to say in his stand-up act: “i was brought up cathoic…well, no, really, i was beat up catholic.”

Ann Coulter TP

Hm. On one hand, she deserves to be covered in shit at every possible opportunity, on the other hand, her abrasive face on my delicate bits == ewww.

Terry, we are not CafePress, but we (along with tons of other people) have a shop there. Demetrius is the artist, but I’ve learned enough Photoshop to be able to do some things with text. And stick bunny ears or pirate hats on pictures of our cat. :)

Pachacutec @ 48

Of course, talking about my home may not in fact be an “appropriate subject for this blog.”

I wonder how the wingnuts would react to my big ol’ homo quotation of the Sermon on the Mount?

Devil quoting the scripture for his own purposes, no doubt.

Sinner.

o/t I was bored and headed over to Redstate for a cruise. (sorry, wont link them)

Fred Thompson has a front page screed against Iran, and man is this guy a nut job. Same old shit we expect from the mouth breathers – the British were disgraceful, its all the un’s fault, we never should have negotiated, yadda, yadda.

My first introduction to him. He’s much more of a “bushie” than any of these other gop dopes, it seems. Good news is that in 2008 I dont think that will be an asset.

Sinner.

Hey, everyone has to have some kind of talent.

As you enjoy this Easter Sunday with your respective faith, family and favorite chocolate bunny, take a moment to contemplate the demented words of the indicted former House Majority Leader Tom Delay on the day of his booking last year: “let people see Christ through me.”

For the details, see:
“Happy Easter from Tom Delay.”

Pachacutec @
48

I wonder how the wingnuts would react to my big ol’ homo quotation of the Sermon on the Mount?

The wingnuttiest wingnuts would rather the Sermon on the Mount be forgotten entirely, regardless of who is quoting it, I think. It just doesn’t work with their worldview.

We will never know of course, but I wonder if the best parts of Christianity were cut out at the Counsel of Nicea? I’m just sayin’.

Pach,

I’m so happy about you’re getting a place with your love. How exciting!

Thanks for all the well wishes. It’s home.

from long ago, lord of the peeps.

Pachacutec @ 66

Sinner.

Hey, everyone has to have some kind of talent.

You have lots of talents. Very appreciative that you use so many of them furthering progressive causes.

ps – how about a-rod today? Thought for sure he was gonna whiff in the 9th, and instead he hits a walk off grand slam. Gotta admit, that man has SERIOUS talent too.

Need to get to sleep now, as we are all going to church in the morning (believers and unbelievers alike), and Daughter in Ohio will be singing with the children’s choir. Easter always makes me think of (and miss) my grandmother, who my daughter is named for. I shared some thoughts on the holiday which has for a long time been both emotionally significant and theologically challenging for me in this diary, written two years ago.

as to what the red-staters think about the sermon on the mount, about four comments down in the above referenced post I found this charming entry-

Jesus hated sin. He was violent toward his enemies. He was intolerant of their evil.
Jesus in the temple today would end up just as crucified as he was 2000 yrs ago.
If you believe for one second that crucifixion is a passive act your arrogance is exceeded only by your ignorance.
Jesus was a man of violence but not a man of evil. Show me where he rejected hate, violence, war and intolerance.
Thompson’s words are powerful because they demand more than a passive acceptance of evil. Jesus demanded a price be paid for evil. He sacrificed his life as an act of war against evil. Thousands of our young people have done the same in Iraq.
This girly man you speak of is not the Christ who died for me. I will die for my Christ. Will you die for yours?

Marx, Jesus, and Elvis; each of them good people in their own right. It’s their follower that give me the creeps.

The Bush administration is yet another demonstration of the astonishing wisdom of the Founders in establishing a separation of church and state.

Religion and matters of the spirit provide great depth to our human experience.

When those values are despoiled and exploited by authoritarians (Taliban or American Taliban alike) we all are the poorer.

A good holiday to all.

I always read this blog, but seldom if ever post here. If you read at Atrios, I am usually there. I have written my updated Beatitudes. I thought your readers might enjoy them. Sorry for the imposition:
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for they shall be called The Democratic Leadership Council
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be the stories on the evening news
Blessed are the meek: for they shall be taken advantage of
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be lied to and exploited endlessly through a series of us against them schemes to enrich Republican coffers.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain extreme rendition
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall be sullied beyond salvation
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be sent to Iraq or Afghanistan without proper equipment.
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for they shall find Gitmo and Echelon and the joys of the CIA
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake for my people will kick their ass (If they are brown and all)
Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: you didn’t think we would share here, did you?

Pach–

I have said, more than once, that if all Christianity had to work with was chapters 5, 6, and 7 of Matthew (the Sermon on the Mount, including the Beatitudes you quote), the religion might actually be in better shape. These are supposed to be the core teachings, and it saddens me that the most loudly politicized Christians don’t see them as such. Believe this or not, I once read a post on an AOL board that quoted the Beatitudes without citing chapter and verse, and a fundamentalist so-called Christian quickly posted a reply: “I don’t know where you get that liberal crap.” Seriously. Couldn’t even recognize his self-proclaimed Savior’s standard homily.

Maybe the reason we don’t hear a louder uproar about that is because there really are Christians out there walking their talk…and who know what they’re talking about. I guarantee you’ll find that kind of Christian around here–and sometimes that kind of Christian doesn’t even believe in God.

Thanks, Pach. Since I’m an agnostic who makes a point of listening to Bach’s St. Matthew’s Passion every Good Friday and Handel’s Messiah every Easter, it’s nice to feel I have company. Explaining why I do this generally takes so long that I rarely bother. Maybe the best clue is to say that the Book Of Job explains human existence in this universe better than anything else I’ve ever encountered.

Ever since Rathergate, the media has been less than complimentary toward blogs, when it pays them any attention. Derogatory comments abound, such as the idea that bloggers are losers in their pj’s typing in their mother’s basement

http://networdblog.blogspot.co…..media.html

“That has meant ordering new furniture, painting, and lots of work to prepare the space in the basement of our home.”

Sorry Pach, I thought that was funny ; )

Rushton @ 69

We will never know of course, but I wonder if the best parts of Christianity were cut out at the Counsel of Nicea? I’m just sayin’.

No, they’re in there. It’s just that the loudest Christians prefer to read John without the context of the synoptics and to put Paul’s sometimes blinkered interpretations over Jesus’ own words.

Pachacutec @
66

Sinner.

Hey, everyone has to have some kind of talent.

Oh, I thought urban pirate was talking to me…urban pirate @
75

as to what the red-staters think about the sermon on the mount, about four comments down in the above referenced post I found this charming entry-

Jesus hated sin. He was violent toward his enemies. He was intolerant of their evil.
Jesus in the temple today would end up just as crucified as he was 2000 yrs ago.
If you believe for one second that crucifixion is a passive act your arrogance is exceeded only by your ignorance.
Jesus was a man of violence but not a man of evil. Show me where he rejected hate, violence, war and intolerance.
Thompson’s words are powerful because they demand more than a passive acceptance of evil. Jesus demanded a price be paid for evil. He sacrificed his life as an act of war against evil. Thousands of our young people have done the same in Iraq.
This girly man you speak of is not the Christ who died for me. I will die for my Christ. Will you die for yours?

Wow. That’s just nuts. Reminds me why I skip church and just go to the beach.

If only I wore pajamas. . .

Pachacutec @ 84

If only I wore pajamas. . .

Dang. I thought FDL front pagers all wore Kobe approved pajamas while at the Lake.

to put Paul’s sometimes blinkered interpretations over Jesus’ own words.

And we don’t know how much of that was “really” Paul. (Currently studying that in my second year of EfM, so I just had to pipe up before going to bed.)

And then, John’s Gospel is dated to the time when the Jewish Christians were essentially being “excommunicated” from the synagogue, so that kind of colored his perceptions, one would think.

My roomate and I were talking earlier about how the two of the most popular holidays in America – Easter and Christmas are actually a mashup of Pagan and Christian symbolism and tradition. Years ago I went to a Spiral Dance in SF with Z.Budapest and she remarked that she thought it was how the Goddess got the last word – because of the commercialism of western holidays the Goddess and Christianity were forever married…

Blub @ 31

You shall not covet your neighbor’s house – BROKEN, not sure how precisely, but what heck.

IIRC, that commandment covers any property of one’s neighbor–so, broken, over oil.

AZ Matt @
12

Speaking of Easter, from WaPo:

Justice’s Holy Hires

By Dahlia Lithwick
Sunday, April 8, 2007; Page B02

Monica Goodling had a problem. As senior counsel to Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales and Justice Department liaison to the White House, she no longer seemed to know what the truth was. She also must have been increasingly unclear about who her superiors were. This didn’t used to be a problem for Goodling. Everything was once very certain: Her boss’s truth was always the same as God’s truth. Her boss was always either God or one of His staffers.

Last week, through counsel, Goodling again refused to testify about her role in the firings of several U.S. attorneys for what appear to be partisan reasons. Asserting her Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination, she somehow thought she might be on the hook for criminal obstruction. Then on Friday, she resigned, giving no reason.

….

Start digging, and Goodling also looks to be the Forrest Gump of no comments: Here she is in 1997 fielding calls from reporters to the admissions office of Regent’s School of Government. Asked whether non-Christians were admitted, she explained that “we admit all students without discrimination. We are a Christian institution; it is assumed that everyone in the classes are Christians.” Here, in 2004, she’s answering calls at the Justice Department about whether then-Deputy Solicitor General Paul D. Clement knew about the abuse at Iraq’s Abu Ghraib prison when he told the Supreme Court that the United States does not torture. Said Goodling, in lieu of taking the Fifth: “We wouldn’t have any comment.”

Goodling is one of 150 graduates of Regent University who have served in this administration, as Regent’s Web site proudly proclaims. Pretty impressive for a 29-year-old school. The university says that “approximately one out of every six Regent alumni is employed in some form of government work.” And that’s precisely what its founder desired. The school’s motto is “Christian Leadership to Change the World.” Former attorney general John Ashcroft teaches at Regent, and graduates have obtained senior positions in the Bush administration. The express goal is not only to tear down the wall between church and state in America but also to enmesh the two.

…

WaPo Link

Thanks! WaPo pisses me off so much that it’s hard to remember that they have some really good people on their staff.

Renee in Ohio @ 86

And we don’t know how much of that was “really” Paul. (Currently studying that in my second year of EfM, so I just had to pipe up before going to bed.)

Good for you. And good point, too–but whoever he/they might be, sometimes didn’t know their Jesus very well. On the bright side, there is that lovely bit about love in 2 Corinthians, which was definitely one of Paul’s better moments.

urban pirate @ 65

Fred Thompson has a front page screed against Iran, and man is this guy a nut job. Same old shit we expect from the mouth breathers – the British were disgraceful, its all the un’s fault, we never should have negotiated, yadda, yadda.

My first introduction to him. He’s much more of a “bushie” than any of these other gop dopes, it seems…

I was wondering how long that would take (for the REAL Fred Thompson to show his face). Yes, he’s as fanatical as they come. My introduction came a few years back. He was out of Washington, but not yet prime time in Hollywood. As I recall, he was doing little guest blurbs on evening newscasts & the like. Took all of about 3 realtime minutes to realize he was a raving lunatic. I was hoping those old clips would re-appear if he announced, but it looks like he won’t make us go digging. He’s gonna provide fresh moments of idiocy for us.

There’s a lot in the Old Testament that doesn’t jive too well with “Supply-side Jesus” either…

Woe to you who add house to house and join field to field till no space is left and you live alone in the land.

The LORD Almighty has declared in my hearing:
“Surely the great houses will become desolate,
the fine mansions left without occupants.

Wigwam, the author’s not wapo staff. she writes for slate. it’s an op-ed.

I thought the same until I saw the by-line. If only their news crew and editors were so honest.

These Talibangelicals are frightening.

Renee in Ohio @ 91

There’s a lot in the Old Testament that doesn’t jive too well with “Supply-side Jesus” either…

That’s because there are no capitalist societies depicted in the Bible…not even the Romans, not even the Phoenicians.

Pachacutec @
71

Thanks for all the well wishes. It’s home.

Tec. I think “whenever 2 or more are gathered” still holds up. Best wishes.
The Robe is on here.
“Christianity hasn’t failed. It has just never been tried”.-Chesterston

Okay, one more thing with regard to Paul. It’s something I just learned about with regard to the injunction that women have their heads covered in church. I did a quick Google and found and explanation that’s pretty close to what I just learned.

‘Night, everyone.

EvilDrPuma @ 88

Blub @ 31

You shall not covet your neighbor’s house – BROKEN, not sure how precisely, but what heck.

IIRC, that commandment covers any property of one’s neighbor–so, broken, over oil.

I was thinking more along the lines of our commandeering of the Iraq Royal palaces.

Alicia @
20

The Sermon on the Mount says it all for me. It is the reason I call myself a Christian. It may sound contradictory, but I don’t need the literal Jesus to be real in order to call myself a follower of Him. If it’s all a figment of human imagination, it does not make those truths about how to live and treat our brothers and sisters any less true.

Thank you. I’ve never heard that truth spoken more precisely! (And damnit, I’ve tried.)

Renee in Ohio @
38

I was raised Catholic and am now Episcopalian. I had been determined to stay Catholic and raise my kids in the church, even though I was marrying an “unbeliever”. And even though there were more and more things in the church that I was finding myself uncomforable with. And I’d been going to the same progressive campus church for years but had been utterly unable to make any real connections there–still felt like an outsider.

Finally, Godde dropped a giant clue on me in the form of my special needs/gifted son who fit in as well in Sunday school as a square peg in a round hole. The situation was no fun at the time, but served the purpose of moving me towards the place where I belong.

From my Blog Against Theocracy post…

On the most basic level, it goes against *my* understanding of what my faith (actually all major faith traditions) requires of me, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” *I* wouldn’t want to be treated like a second class citizen because of my beliefs or lack thereof, so how can I, as someone who tries to follow the teachings of Jesus, condone or accept it when others are treated that way? Also, as a parent, I have learned a little bit about persuasion–or, more specifically, the types of persuasion that are most likely to backfire. I know that if you try to force something on someone, it could end up being the *last* thing they will choose.

My son is almost 14, and there was never a time in his life that he believed in God in any traditional sense. But he has fluctuated to some degree between agnostic and staunchly, almost evangelically atheistic. What makes the difference? When he has been around people who seem to have an agenda and want to push religion, he pushes back, digging in his heels and becoming more anti-religion. But when he’s been in an environment, such as the local Unitarian Universalist church where his “I don’t believe in God” was met with, “A lot of us don’t either”, then he has been more open to the “maybe” of God. So if my ultimate goal is for him to embrace Christianity, I’ve learned that the approach with the best chance of success would be a *really* soft sell. As in, acting like I don’t really care that much. And I wonder how many people out there in the world might be more open to religion if there weren’t people trying to force it on them.

Good to see another Episcopalian at the Lake.
My church is open-minded enough that they let the local chapter of Americans for Democratic Action meet in one of their buildings. Today we held a joint meeting of ADA and Progressive Democrats of Hawaii for the purpose of discussing impeachment with our Representative. Most churches in my experience treat anything political as if it were radioactive and hazardous. Of course, I tend not to hang out at Jerry Falwell type churches. Maybe things are different over there.

Anyway, thanks for this graceful post. May y’all receive an extra dose of spiritual enlightenment on Easter Sunday!

Bob in HI

I’m a follower of Jesus the revolutionary and a foe of the Christ myth and of the evil that has wrought.

Happy easter, Paschal Lamb Sacrifice or Festival of Venus, everyone!

ET, any signs of spring yet?

I just put out all of the Easter decorations.
Funny, my daughters are 18 and 20, but they still love the “Easter Bunny” stuff. Now, though, it’s Nordstrom pretties!

Alas, they’ll probably return what the Easter Bunny brought and exchange.

Pachacutec @
48

Of course, talking about my home may not in fact be an “appropriate subject for this blog.”

I wonder how the wingnuts would react to my big ol’ homo quotation of the Sermon on the Mount?

Devil quoting the scripture for his own purposes, no doubt.

What’s homo about it? what am I missing?

Bob in HI

Here in Hoopa, California the peach blossoms have faded, cherry blossoms are on the wing and apple blossoms are in full flower. Shafts or sunlight highlight dogwood blossom. Bees make each tree a tuning fork, humming. New life is everywere. All disappointment and sorrow is forgotten or forgiven.

We look forward to new fruit, heavy on the bough.

As the days grow longer, we wish you all a happy spring equinox. May love take the place of bitterness and may positive action take the place of guardation.

The future is ours. Let us take it!

Or as Mao put it, “dare to struggle; dare to win.”

Happy Easter, Pachacutec.

Renee in Ohio @ 86

to put Paul’s sometimes blinkered interpretations over Jesus’ own words.

And we don’t know how much of that was “really” Paul. (Currently studying that in my second year of EfM, so I just had to pipe up before going to bed.)

And then, John’s Gospel is dated to the time when the Jewish Christians were essentially being “excommunicated” from the synagogue, so that kind of colored his perceptions, one would think.

Renee, you’re getting a very good education. Acts of the Apostles is by the author of Luke. Luke/Acts is very good on his Churches, which have a lot in common theologically with Paul. As a source on Paul’s life, however just stick to Paul’s authentic letters, Thessalonians, Galations, Romans, Phillipians, Corinthians, Philemon.

One of the dirty little secrets of Xtianity is that Jesus was a man of his time. He preached the end of the world. The earliest surviving docs about Jesus are 2 and 1 Thessalonians. Jesus is coming back, fire and brimstone and boy is he pissed. Academically, that’s called imminent eschatology.

I’ll come back with a longer comment in a few minutes, but I wanted to get this one out, so you’d know someone understood what you were talking about.

The fact that you are learning about the antipathy among Jews and against those who followed Jesus encountered cannot be overestimated. People who don’t understand that tension don’t understand Xtianity.

Goodnight, folks. Another busy day tomorrow. Catch y’all later.

Ed*ard Teller @ 100

I’m a follower of Jesus the revolutionary and a foe of the Christ myth and of the evil that has wrought.

Happy easter, Paschal Lamb Sacrifice or Festival of Venus, everyone!

Me too, ET.

Renee in Ohio @
96

Okay, one more thing with regard to Paul. It’s something I just learned about with regard to the injunction that women have their heads covered in church. I did a quick Google and found and explanation that’s pretty close to what I just learned.

‘Night, everyone.

Renee, this guy gets it. Paul was a Roman citizen. Under Roman law in the first century, ce, it wasn’t against the law to kill your wife. It was impolite. It wasn’t something you wanted a neighbor to do, but it was not against Roman law. Only men had standing under Roman law. For his time, Paul is a raging feminists. The introduction to all his letters are filled with caring greetings to women all over Greece.

Suzanne @
101

ET, any signs of spring yet?

Spring is about to bust out everywhere! We’ve gone from below to above average temps and the meltoff is trememndous. Planting 3 kinds of arugula and repairing roof today. Off to have a lamb dinner with Ms. ET while we watch Blood Diamond, With a small glass of wine – darn! – ’cause I have to drive to Anchortown to pick up ET, Jr. after his DC trip.

{{{{Suzanne}}}}

Renee in Ohio @
86

to put Paul’s sometimes blinkered interpretations over Jesus’ own words.

And we don’t know how much of that was “really” Paul. (Currently studying that in my second year of EfM, so I just had to pipe up before going to bed.)

And then, John’s Gospel is dated to the time when the Jewish Christians were essentially being “excommunicated” from the synagogue, so that kind of colored his perceptions, one would think.

Yikes! I can’t believe it! another EfM’er at the Lake! I’m a “mentor” for EfM at my church! Of course, we’re all awash in metaphors here, being Firepups at the Lake and all.

Bob in HI

well here in rural NY, it looks like a white easter…..very prety drive home from school tonight.

John Casper,

Like you, I’ve been at the Lake since 2005. I just wanted to say that your posts about religion have been extraordinary and educational. Thank you so much!

I just learned the other day that one of my BFF’s and business partner from years ago died recently, he was my age. I’m searching for a reason I guess. Totally bummed out at the moment

- Coz

((((((((Cozumel)))))))

We love you.

Coz, I am so sorry for your loss.

No one can really understand Xtianity without understanding the impact that the Romans destroying Jerusalem in 70 had on everyone. When Jesus was alive, there was a healthy pluralism within Israel about how to be a Hebrew. The closer to 70 you get, the less tolerance there is. Peter, Paul and all of Jesus’ other followers were observant Jews who went to Temple.

What will later become so important is the Council of Jerusalem 49ce. Paul hammers out a deal with James the Just, Jesus’ brother. James took over control of Jesus’ movement after his brothers death. No Peter was not the first pope. Also James the Just was not one of his brothers “apostles.” He was just his brother. Paul had a lot of wealthy Greeks who really liked Jesus’ preaching, but they were not going to submit to adult circumcision. After much haggling, James the Just finally allowed Paul to baptize these Greeks without circumcision in return for Paul sending back money from his Churches. James the Just got the ok from the Rabbis in the Temple, who had not been fond of his brother, but were definitely NOT responsible for his death. They could have stoned Jesus anytime they wanted. The fact that Jesus was hung on a cross proves it was Roman execution. Pilate wants crucified 800 guys at once. The whole spiel about Pilate washing his hands was made up later, because Xtians didn’t want to get fed to the lions.

As I said above, the closer to 70, the less tolerance there is. Around 67 the Rabbis throw James the Just off the top of the Temple. That’s what stoning was. They throw you off a cliff, splat. Then they finish you off, if need be, with stones. After 70, what was left of the religion would not tolerate anyone who found Jesus’ preaching helpful. That’s when the canonical Gospels, Mark, Luke, Matt, John were written. They were catechisms for separate Churches, because followers of Jesus could no longer worship as Jews, something they had always done. It’s hard for us to imagine what that was like, because there’s no separation of Church and State in the first century. If you will not renounce Jesus, you are “out” of the Temple. If you don’t go to Temple you are impure and no one will associate with you. Good luck finding a job or feeding your family. Much of the anti-semitism in the New Testament is in Matthew and then John. They both are more familiar with people who are really pissed, because they had to choose between Jesus and Judaism. (Jesus never had to make that choice. Although he didn’t agree with everything in the Temple, especially the money changers, he died and observant Jew.) Judaism a lot better that Mark and Luke who were more Greek.

The Lurking Mod @ 114

((((((((Cozumel)))))))

We love you.

Seconded.

If you read the Gospels, it is obvious that Jesus challenged the status quo and paid for it with his life. The authorities saw him as a threat and had to take action. What got him in trouble was his association with “undesirables”, like tax collectors, prostitutes, the poor and unclean, etc.

In the current environment, I suspect that Jesus would be crucified all over again.

Condolences on your loss Coz. You’re probably already familiar with these Five Stages of Grieving.

Good morning from London! Just a quick note to say happy Easter before I’m off to the next country.

Cozumel I’m so sorry to hear about your friend. That must be really hard for you. Was it unexpected?

I just found out that my best friend is moving, that is difficult enough but to contemplate never seeing her again…

You are in our thoughts and prayers Coz. {{{{{{{{Coz}}}}}}}}

egregious @ 120

You are in our thoughts and prayers Coz. {{{{{{{{Coz}}}}}}}}

In mine, too.

AZ Dawn @ 118

If you read the Gospels, it is obvious that Jesus challenged the status quo and paid for it with his life. The authorities saw him as a threat and had to take action. What got him in trouble was his association with “undesirables”, like tax collectors, prostitutes, the poor and unclean, etc.

In the current environment, I suspect that Jesus would be crucified all over again.

Yes, this was a big part of it. Ritual purity was a big money maker for a lot of guys in the temple, charging people to make themselves pure. The fight in the Temple definitely happened.

Jesus was a healer. Whether we believe it or not, is irrelevant, the people of his age saw him as a healer. Jesus really pissed off his family however, because he wouldn’t do what other healers did, set up a thriving practice. Instead he “went on the road,” and gave away his healing to whomever needed it. (He expected you to pay him if you had money, but he’d heal the poor as readily as the wealthy). That was not the way it was done. It’s something that stands out as unique about Jesus of Nazareth.

Thanks John, and all.

He had stomach cancer that spread after surgery and weighed just 98 pounds when he died 8 months later. Can’t stop crying. Thanks all

Goodnight

scarlet p. @
15

These are the signs I put up today:

http://freewayblogger.blogspot…..ntest.html

SP: you are a true American Patriot. i especially like

IMPEACH BUSH FOR BLOWING THE JOB

and there are so many others…….

The Lurking Mod @ 114

((((((((Cozumel)))))))

We love you.

So sorry, Cozumel.

For anyone who is interested, all that I know comes from a group of great scholars known as the Jesus Seminar.

They will definitely sell you their very readable books if you are interested. Whether your theist, atheist or agnostic is irrelevant. These scholars are not taking a position on Jesus’ relatinship with the transendent. They are experts on the first century Palestine and sifting through the available evidence. For instance no one in the Israel could say that they were the Son of God without getting killed. It’s ludricous to think that Jesus actually said those words and survived. The canonical Gospels are simply wrong on that, because it’s too incongruous with what we know about that time and place. “Son of Man,” however, which is also in some of the Gospels is a lot more likely. The New Testament sources are not 100% accurate, but in the hands of great scholars, looking at other non-Xtian documents from the time, a lot emerges. For example, Jesus evidently was something of a Jay Leno/Chris Rock/David Letterman, comic of his day. Thousands of people did not flock to see him, because he was boring.

Alicia @
20

The Sermon on the Mount says it all for me. It is the reason I call myself a Christian. It may sound contradictory, but I don’t need the literal Jesus to be real in order to call myself a follower of Him. If it’s all a figment of human imagination, it does not make those truths about how to live and treat our brothers and sisters any less true.

There may be something in the human brain that responds to the need for a ‘power greater than oneself’. I think that it can lead to better mental and emotional health and an understanding that we are in control only of our selves and our actions. As babies, we think we control everything – that our anger or our fear can shatter the world. To realize that we are not in control of external things and people makes for a healthier and saner existence, so it may be a hard-wiring brain thing.

Whatever it is, it works for me, so it doesn’t matter whether it’s physically or literally true.

Happy Easter!

it’s all about ideas and trying to understand them …….

Apologies if I unintentionally offended any of the many FDLers I treasure who I know are atheist and agnostic. No one believes 100% in a God or the transcendent. Although most won’t admit it, all of us are atheist and agnostic to at least some degree.

John Casper @ 117

The Lurking Mod @ 114

((((((((Cozumel)))))))

We love you.

Seconded.

Third. Sorry for your loss.

Thank you Pach, and thank you to everyone who posts here.
Big hugs.

And a Happy Passover to those in the middle of that holiday! 3 more days until we eat bread again. :)

I like the Jesus Seminar’s translation (and they lean towards the historicity of Luke on this occasion). Though I’d offer my rendition, because ‘blessed’ was meant to shock:

Yay poor! You own the kingdom of God. Yay, hungry! You’ll get a feast. Yay, weepers! You’ll laugh.

Yeshua the itinerant rabbi was a radical bastard, and he’d have precious little to say about Christianity.

John Casper @
128

Apologies if I unintentionally offended any of the many FDLers I treasure who I know are atheist and agnostic. No one believes 100% in a God or the transcendent. Although most won’t admit it, all of us are atheist and agnostic to at least some degree.

I have many questions in my mind about religion and its practice, but no doubts about the existence of God.

I am atheist, and am well aware that it will be many years before we have a voice politically.

I really wish I could believe, sounds dreamy to live with clouds and harmony. But why do all the Popes go to such lengths to stay alive? If heaven is dreamsville, why suffer in life through all of the medical procedures?

But, just can’t believe any of it. Too many wars over religion over too many centuries. Always with religious “goals”. Not right.

And the iTunes audio lectures on the Historical Jesus by Thomas Sheehan are just great.

ahhhh if only those who profess christ would practice the faith he espoused particularly here in america this would truly be the home of the brave and free….. as a former churchmember but still christian it hurts me to see so many “christians” spew such awful venom. and christ taught us to be at peace with all people and love our neighbors as we love ourselves… i guess thats not taught anymore unfortunately…..

Just a couple more tidbits. Crucifixtion was not supposed to be invasive, because it was intended to be slow. The statements that Jesus only hung for three hours are probably more about the hope of his followers than about what actually happened. They used nails because the body wasn’t coming down. You hung up there until you died of exposure, suffocation, or hunger. This is why it was against Roman Law to crucify a Roman citizen, it was considered too horrible. Afterwards in most cases, the birds and the wild beasts consumed the carcass. Crucifixtion was state sponsored terrorism, aimed at pacifying the occupied citizenry.

There are archeological examples of crucified men being buried, but it was the exception not the rule.

This morning I woke up thinking, “What if Jesus is alive on earth right this minute, right now?”

Beyond the obvious, “Boy, would he be, like, so steamed at Bush/Cronies,” the thought encouraged me to treat each person I saw as kindly as the momentary interaction would allow.

What a difference — what an appreciation for others I was given. I hope this becomes a daily gentle shove toward increased thoughtfulness, patience.

Thank you, Pach.

This has me wondering who this guy is:
Forecaster Blasts Gore on Global Warming.

Now, we know that there are people being paid to undermine the science in all this. I wonder if this is a WWR (wingnut welfare recipient).

Pat @ 138

This morning I woke up thinking, “What if Jesus is alive on earth right this minute, right now?”

Beyond the obvious, “Boy, would he be, like, so steamed at Bush/Cronies,” the thought encouraged me to treat each person I saw as kindly as the momentary interaction would allow.

What a difference — what an appreciation for others I was given. I hope this becomes a daily gentle shove toward increased thoughtfulness, patience.

I like that. Thanks for sharing it.

Lindy@139 – The nutbag you are referring to has been around for years spewing the same line. He has been thoroughly discredited.

bmaz @ 141

Lindy@139 – The nutbag you are referring to has been around for years spewing the same line. He has been thoroughly discredited.

Yes, well he’s being touted as a “top hurricane expert”, so I guess the wurlitzer is doing its thing. Thanks for letting me know. I googled, and every source that comes up looks legitimate on the surface and I’m too sleepy to dig deeper tonight.

Lindy@142 – Oh, he is a legitimate hurricane expert/climatologist and most all of the raw data and evidence he cites are accurate; but they are cherry picked (heard that before, with horrible results, haven’t we) and it is the extended conclusions as to global warming, and it’s cause and effects, that he has extrapolated that have been discredited by most all of his peers.

OT
Interesting article in Mother Jones:
http://www.motherjones.com/new…..ntent.html

John Casper @
126

For anyone who is interested, all that I know comes from a group of great scholars known as the Jesus Seminar.

They will definitely sell you their very readable books if you are interested. Whether your theist, atheist or agnostic is irrelevant. These scholars are not taking a position on Jesus’ relatinship with the transendent. They are experts on the first century Palestine and sifting through the available evidence. For instance no one in the Israel could say that they were the Son of God without getting killed. It’s ludricous to think that Jesus actually said those words and survived. The canonical Gospels are simply wrong on that, because it’s too incongruous with what we know about that time and place. “Son of Man,” however, which is also in some of the Gospels is a lot more likely. The New Testament sources are not 100% accurate, but in the hands of great scholars, looking at other non-Xtian documents from the time, a lot emerges. For example, Jesus evidently was something of a Jay Leno/Chris Rock/David Letterman, comic of his day. Thousands of people did not flock to see him, because he was boring.

I’m very familiar with the work of the Jesus Seminar. I have a lot of their stuff on my bookshelf, including The Five Gospels. However, these guys (including some women) had their own axes to grind. The founder of the Seminar, Robert Funk, was a publicity hound, and would say provocative stuff like “Jesus never said the Lord’s Prayer” just to get press coverage.
Their methodology stacked the deck in various ways. But this is not the place to argue about stuff like that.

My experience with this has been as assistant moderator of a scholarly e-mail list on the historical Jesus, a list that I’ve been active on since 1996, with a break of 6 months once. In its current incarnation, it is a Yahoo group called XTalk (the original name was CrossTalk). Membership is screened to keep the loonies out. And believe me, in the early years there were plenty of loonies. We have also regularly enjoyed participation by Jesus Seminar members, including J.Dominic Crossan.

I have learned a lot from the Jesus Seminar, and from the XTalk. And I still enjoy Easter! :-)

May everyone have a blessed Easter, or Spring Celebration, and may hope spring eternal here at the Lake!

Bob in HI

I was raised Episcopalian, did the Acholyte thing for all my high school years and even seriously thought about becoming a priest, had my own born again experience even.

But i joined the air force, read much on religion and when i went to college took many history courses and became a non-christian searching eastern religions for meaning. luckly with a physics degree and a history minor and a growing interest in the way things work in the real world, i became an athiest with a deep feeling of reverence and spirituality for the oneness of the world and life.

then i read the bible again – and when i read the new testiment i realized that i had become an atheist for jesus (not christ) when i went ad saw Gibson’s “the passion” i realized that the Romans had become the Global Corporations and the High Priest Caiphas who sent Jesus to Pilate was the Bushie one and Barabbas was like one of the Corrupt buddies.

When Jesus overturned the tables of the money changers he was offending the corruption of the Pharisees that were ripping of the poor who had to change thier mney to get a pure offering.

Matthew chapter 23 says it all.

Jesus would have found himself in Guantanamo as an Enemy Combataent or a Terrorist, no Habbius Corpus for him.

After a Military Tribunal, Jesus would be strung up by the Burning Bush.

Bush is no follower of Jesus, Bush is like the High Priest, using his followers to line his pockets and the poclets of his Elite group of Thieves.

That will do it for me tonight. G’nite all.

Bob Schlact (#99):

tell your church people they’d better be careful. the IRS is under orders to revoke tax-free status to any church (liberal of course) that allows anything that even relates to political activity to occur at church.

Fahrender@148 – Well, that is unless it is Republican activity, right?

Hey from Heathrow.

egregious @ 150

Hey from Heathrow.

hi there eg!

headed to bed now, g’nite all.

Cozumel @
123

Thanks John, and all.

He had stomach cancer that spread after surgery and weighed just 98 pounds when he died 8 months later. Can’t stop crying. Thanks all

Goodnight

very sad to hear, Cozumel. my comment at #124, although genuine, was inappropriate in that spot. i was posting as i read (back at #15) and not checking to see where it would land.
my daughterinlaw died of cancer three years ago. she was 36. it’s very difficult for surviving family…..

((((((fahrender and family))))))

Re yr comment, Coz has been around fdl for a long time and well knows that we have multiple conversations simultaneously. I doubt he took offense at yr comment.

Sorry to hear about your son’s wife. How sad.

Hope the upcoming generation of smart kids get busy working on a cure in time for many of us.

spacibo, egregious.
you and i should chat sometime. i lived in moscow from 1990 – 97. i loved it there. yesterday i came across two russian women chatting in the supermarket (i live in dresden now). it was music to my ears but i didn’t try to speak with them. i never got fluent in russki yazik.

fahrender—I was a self-taught Russian language speaker before making the first of my 30 trips to help support congenital heart surgery in newborns there.

Have to laugh thinking about people looking at me in the car talking to myself in response to the language cassettes. My then four year old egrSon in the back seat once said, Mom, you forgot to say “spacibo” well I guess he was listening to the cassette too!

Then I took berlitz lessons to become fluent out of respect for the people I work with at the hospital. Figured I could help them more if I could speak with all people on the staff, in the city government, et al.

May I state for the record it’s not so easy to learn a new language as a grownup. And the Russian language has 20% more words than English, good thing I didn’t know that when embarking on learning a new language.

egregious,

boy, do i know that! i had about five words when i moved to moscow. my job had me using english all day and, in 1990, not allowed free access to socialize with russians. i had a private teacher for russian after the first year. my big hindrances were (1) a less than stellar memory and (2) no real comprehension of grammar.
it was tough to find a good teacher. most were just pedants. i did find one, an ethnic korean who had grown up in tajikistan. she spoke not a word of english. unfortunately, after a few months with her she took a job in korea teaching russian. i felt kak chorny sneg.

i went to your website and read the post about music. my degrees are in music but i too went in a different direction after chasing that star for seventeen years. i once was at a concert with karel husa. i know “music for prague” and “the apotheosis of this earth” ……

Back from picking my son up at the Anchorage airport. He had a great week in DC.. Wants to major in PoliSci now. Anybody up?

Uh, any mods awake? You’ve got a bunch of porn spam downstairs at this thread: http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..love-mydd/ – I’m thinking you’d want to do something about that…

From the airport, with minutes to go before the machine logs off: thanks, Pach, for the reminder about the beatitudes. I’d like to add another of my favorite lines: “inasmuch as ye do to the least of my brethren, so do ye to me.” So what does that mean for W’s assault on the helpless and innocent citizens of Iraq?

OT
Egregious, are you involved with Adi Roche’s Chernoble Children’s Crusade out of Cork Ireland? They attempt to asuage the damages done to the children from the accident and a lot have serious congenital problems from the radiation which is still apparently high. Have a wonderful Easter, thought the beatitudes the perfect way to express the real christian belief. All the best…..

Happy Easter to any pups just stirring from sleep. Marion? Twolfster?

Mornin all!

Happy Easter to you too retirin’

twolf1 @ 162

Mornin all!

Happy Easter to you too retirin’

So far it looks like it’s just you and me, pal. Weather here hardly befitting a giant bunny bearing gifts of candy. If he’s hiding eggs on our front lawn, he’s trodding through snow to do it.

retirin’ in five @ 163

So far it looks like it’s just you and me, pal. Weather here hardly befitting a giant bunny bearing gifts of candy. If he’s hiding eggs on our front lawn, he’s trodding through snow to do it.

We don’t have any snow on the ground but there is snow in the air. Strange to see it snowing while the goldfinches, that are now fully yellow, eating away at the feeders. I blame Al Gore ;)

Happy Easter, pups! I’m going to have to speak to the Easter Bunny about brining Bobo back in the NYT, however… Today it’s Bobo, Kristof and Rich. Rich is rich, writing on “Sunday in the Market With McCain.”

http://mgpaquin.wordpress.com/

Coffee and tea are ready, and today it’s a full-out breakfast buffet. Help yourselves to eggs any way you like them, French toast, English muffins, biscuits, or whatever at all strikes your fancy. It’s eggs Benedict for me!

Hi, twolf and retirin’. It’s unseasonably cold here too. The temperature got down to 34 degrees where I am, which is fairly close to the coastal marshes, and it went down to the 20s farther inland. Weird. I’m with twolf, except I blame the whole Clinton/Gore administration… DFHs, the lot of ‘em…

Truck bomb kills 15 south of Baghdad

A pickup truck packed with artillery shells was detonated Sunday near a hospital south of Baghdad, killing at least 15 people. The blast left a crater 10 yards wide, the Iraqi military said.

…happy easter

Talking Head Thread upstairs…

Happy Easter, Pach. I hope your first Easter sharing your home together is lovely.

thanks for the wishes.

gotta love mahalia!

myself, i consider myself a christian still, for some reason. i was raised in the congregational church (ucc), but stopped being a churchgoer when i found that going to church was actually getting in the way of my spiritual life (long story).

so maybe i’m sort of a “lapsed congregationalist.” which seems silly–i wonder if that makes me an honorary unitarian?

anyway. i love easter. easter was always the big holiday. in our church, even christmas had a strong easter subtext.

best wishes for rebirth for all!

p

I was raised Christian and still am, and its obvious to me that there is little that is of Christ about Bush and his followers who proclaim the loudest that they are.

They make a huge spectacle of their faith, and that to me is the first sign that they are not sincere. Jesus himself said that when you pray, go into a closet, and that the people who pray loudly out in the open to make spectacles of themselves are not of faith.

There is little in the Bible that anyone can honestly say they these people adhere to. They lie with imputnity, their policies are steeped in hatred for people not like them, they work against the poor, they are warmongers who celebrate war, yet are cowards who don’t do their own fighting.

If you look at everything they do, and ask the popular, what would Jesus do, it would not be any of the things that they have done. The leaders of these people — Dobson, Falwell et al, are false prophets if there ever were any, and people who are sincere in their faith need to think twice about following them.

Lastly, what is most disturbing is their cult-like worship for George Bush. They see this deeply flawed man as a walking, breathing incarnation of God’s Word, that if Bush says it, it must be of God. Such fanatacism is dangerous, in that it has been this kind of blind allegiance to evil that has been behind all of the pogroms the world has seen. I say “evil” because any policy that seeks to legitimize death, destruction and deception, and portray it as God’s Word is the essence of evil.

Bless you, Mr. Pach, and that post was the highlight of my Easter!

Ckark @ 171…thanks for your post!

I heartily recommend “10 Propositions on Political Theology” written by Kim Fabricius at Faith & Theology.

Comments are good too — including the text of MLKing’s “A Knock at Midnight” sermon