[FDL is thrilled to welcome Rep. Jerry Nadler to chat with us this morning. As with all Blue America chats, please stay on topic and be polite -- any off-topic conversations should be taken to the prior thread. Please join me in welcoming Rep. Nadler! -- CHS]
It could have been because we were born within a year of each other and not far from each other (in Brooklyn) but I think the bond I felt yesterday towards Congressman Jerrold Nadler (NY-08) had more to do with his ideas and his outlook. You're about to meet him this morning because he's joining us here for a chat from Manhattan. I want to fill you in on a little background first.
He went to Columbia University in the late 60s, campaigning for Eugene McCarthy, along with his roommate Dick Morris. He was elected — with a margin of 73 votes — to the New York State Assembly at 29 and in 1992 he was elected to Congress in similar circumstances. He immediately became the progressive point person to keep the hated bankruptcy bill at bay. He managed to do that for 8 years — despite the fact that all the Republicans and almost a third of the Democrats favored it. In 2000 when it finally passed, he was able to persuade Hillary Clinton to talk her husband into vetoing it.
One of the blessings that came with the Democratic victories last November was that Congressman Nadler, a senior member of the House Judiciary Committee, became chairman of the Subcommittee on the Constitution (immediately changing the name to the Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights and Civil Liberties). I asked him what he's doing with his subcommittee. Half an hour later, I said I had enough material for my story. He was just getting started.
First, what he hopes to accomplish with the subcommittee: a reexamination of the restrictions on habeas corpus, a re-examination of the Military Commissions Act, an examination into "extraordinary renditions," properly defining "enemy combatants," a look at what this whole business of "national security letters" is all about, warrentless wiretaps, torture, speedy trials… oh, and a look at the whole concept of evidence obtained under coersion and duress.
"There's so much to undo," he explained. And even if Bush vetoes everything, he hopes to use hearings to help re-educate the American people about why things like habeas corpus are important even before we have a Democrat in the White House to help restore it. "I never thought I'd be in Congress when it repealed the Magna Carta!"
What's more, with the Democrats controlling the congressional agenda, instead of playing defense again hideous Republican schemes to penalize gays and minorities and take away rights, it is possible to move forward. And Rep. Nadler hopes to do so by cleaning up the incredible mess made by the Bush Regime and its rubber stamp Congress and moving the public debate back towards the center.
Before the victories in November, Rep. Nadler often felt "very dispirited" going to work at the Judiciary Committee several times a week
"to know that no matter how horrible the proposal, no matter how good your argument, you're going to lose every single vote. And we were the first line of defense when they wanted to remove the right to sue for people in industrial accidents, to push through their anti-gay amendment, their 'fetal personhood' bills… I feel like I've been released from purgatory."
Now what about Bush's war? Jerry Nadler represents one of the most Jewish districts in the country — from Manhattan's upper West Side down through Chelsea, the Village, Wall Street, and over to Brooklyn all the way down to Coney Island.
I watched with dismay as other Jewish progressives around the country — from Henry Waxman in L.A., Shelley Berkley in Nevada, Tom Lantos in the Bay Area, Sander Levin in Michigan to Debbie Wasserman-Schultz in South Florida Robert Wexler — abandoned the Democratic Party on October 10, 2002 to vote with Tom DeLay and Denny Hastert to authorize the use of force in Iraq. But not Congressman Nadler. He was the only white Democrat in downstate NY to vote against the war and he helped draft the Spratt Resolution that could have prevented the war.
"Saddam was more of a nuisance than a menace. Iran was a menace and taking Iraq out of the equation unbalanced the Middle East to our detriment, as well as to Israel's."
Since then, as a member of the Progressive Caucus, he has been working hard to start the long, hard process of winding the war down. He was very instrumental in changing the terms of debate from "power of the purse" (which the Republicans and their media machine interpret to mean denying supplies to our boys and girls in the field) to funding the protection of the troops and the costs of bringing them home. He changed the rhetoric the Democratic leadership uses and helped convince them that timelines are essential.
Congressman Nadler isn't here to ask us to finance his bid for re-election. He usually garners around 80% of the vote — and last year, after his strong anti-war stand, it was 83%. But what I'd like to ask you to do is help fund the congressman's leadership PAC. Why? Because we want people like Jerry Nadler in leadership positions within the Democratic caucus.
To a great extent that is determined by his ability to help other Democrats running for office.
If you click on our Act Blue page, you can add one cent to your contribution to indicate to Rep. Nadler's committee that you want your donation to go to his leadership PAC.
Which reminds me…I did a story on one of the congressman's constituents last week, Jonathan Tisch, someone being touted by many Democrats as a good candidate to succeed Bloomberg as mayor of NYC. He wrote a book called Chocolates On The Pillow Aren't Enough — Reinventing the Customer Experience and he autographed a box of them for us to give away to the first contributors to Congressman Nadler's leadership PAC (in other words, if you want a book this week, add .01).
Related posts:
Spotlight
Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search
Welcome, Rep. Nadler — we are so pleased to have you here with us this morning.
Hello from Jerry Nadler
That was a great intro, CHS — welcome, Congressman Nadler! :)
Congressman, I’m not a constituent, but would like to thank you for all you are doing to bring a bit of sanity back to Washington.
Hello Representative Nadler. It is a great honor to have you here with us.
thank you very much I appreciate your comments
Its great to be here
Rep. Nadler — Just wanted to thank you for having such a wonderful backbone when it comes to sticking up for Constitutional and civil liberties issues. There are far too few voices standing up for the Constitution and the Bill of Rights these days — elected officials appear to think that those of us in the voting ranks don’t care about that issue — but they could not be more wrong.
Yours has been a consistent voice, and I wanted to thank you very much for that.
Good morning and welcome Congressman Nadler. I am a New Yorker, in Congresswoman Maloney’s district, but wish I were represented by you instead.
Welcome to the Lake. The water is warm. Come on in.
Rep. Nadler: Good morning from Battery Park City! Thanks for coming to talk today!
Welcome to Firedoglake, Congressman Nadler. There was so much we talked about that I didn’t include in the intro. Especially the stuff you told me about how the Bush Regime has politicized every agency in government. That’s something that has become a big topic at this blog.
Civil liberties are perhaps the cheif reason for this country’s existance and it is important not to sacrifice it in the name of the war on terror or anything else
Welcome, Congressman. For so long, it was a breath of sane fresh air to see you on television during the GOP’s impeachment power grab. Welcome to our community.
Yes, tying in with howieklein@12, I’m thinking that Ds need to tame the process of Rs turning the federal government into a gigantic R machine at taxpayer expense. How do you view the progress to date?
Yes, Howie, every agency of Govt from the EPA to the FDA to the Just. dept has been politizied the judgements of career civil servants on regulating drugs, or on climate change are routinely overruled by Bush political appoointees and Rt-wing political ideologues
jerry nadler @ 13
To what extent do your Republican colleagues share this view? Are any of them as dismayed by what’s been done to our Constitutional liberties as we are? And if so, are any of them now ready to make a public stand?
To date we are just starting the first step obviously, is to discover and publicize improper political actions and why they were done and who ordered them from various govt agencies
My question is rather unsubstantial so feel free to disregard. Who in your opinion are the most compelling congressmen making their arguments on the floor of the house, yourself excluded?
Building on what Howie said at 12 (and knowing you may be limited in what you can say due to ongoing investigations) — can you say a few words about the politicization of administrative agencies and the sort of “political fealty” that the Bush Administration has begun to require? And how that may differ from prior Administrations in your view? I have been particularly concerned about the USAtty mess, but have been told repeatedly about the push on electoral math and other political issues as an overarching question for agencies as diverse as the Department of Agriculture, the GSA, and many, many others. I’d love your thoughts on that.
mrsmarks @ 16
I suspect very little in reality. There are a few – very few – Repu’s who will exert any effort on this.
jerry nadler @ 20
Jeff Flake for one of Ariz.
Neil @ 18
Neil: Barney Frank – in a class by himself very persuasive and extremely witty.
That’s really staggering. What a terrible shame.
jerry nadler @ 22
Also very good in debate, Henry Waxman, Steny Hoyer, Ed Markey
Congressman, if there is any way we can help with the discovery and publicity, please tell us. From public review of large document dumps to in depth analysis, you will find people here eager to lend their effort.
Congressman Nadler, what are the chances that Financial Industry Free Lunch bill (otherwise known as the “Consumers can’t use Bankruptcy” bill) can be reversed or at least substantially modified to offer consumers financial protection against catastrophic events (serious health problems, unexpected unemployment, etc.)?
Given that our Leader, the Prince of Pampers will of course veto it (gotta protect his good ol’ boys with all the cash), can you tie a repeal of the existing law with something that he can’t veto?
I’m at work and won’t be able to participate in this discussion though I am proud to have mr. Nadler here at the lake and will surely read over the comment section when I get a chance
I would like to make a very important point;
the democratic net root constituents are NOT fringe, we are main stream, what we want is what the Majority of Americans want and we are NOT extreme in any sense of the word
in fact, WE are the concervatives, WE are for concerving our nationaly defense, WE are for concerging our national resources, WE are for concervative economics, WE are for lowering the tax burdon on the majority of Americans, WE are for concerving our envirnment, WE are for sound education for ALL americans
we are the concervatives, NOT this new republican party
I also want to point out that EVERY time a democrat goes on the record with SHARP critisism of the administration their poll numbers GO UP
oh, Halelujah! Thank you, Congressman Nadler!!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 19
Christie: We know all about the US Atty mess. In addition the substitution of politics for science for climate change and the “morning after pill” also Just. Dept. approving clearly discrimatory redistricting plans for Tx and Ga what the courts ruled was a poll tax in Ga. All against the advice of the career civil servants.
This may be impossible to answer, but which Congress member on the other side of the aisle do you respect for a combination of the courage to stand by their beliefs at the same time as having a respect for the role of government and the rule of law?
In light of the recent change in Congress, do you think there are any GOP members who could be convinced to switch to Democratic?
Hi Congressman,
I have been in contact with Barney Frank about the attack on Mexicans and their culture. It has gone over the line on the radio and needs to be challenged.
Any thoughts?
Good morning, Congressman.
What an incredible assignment your subcommittee has. How on earth do you decide where to begin? Have you set a list of “top priorites” that you are addressing first?
Have you found that your Republican colleagues on this committee (Franks, Pence, Issa, King, Jordan) have been generally supportive of investigating issues facing your committee? I’m curious if there is a strong political bias in the committee regarding how to protect the constitution, civil rights, and civil liberties.
Thank you so much for your service to our nation.
TJ @ 25
Tj: You probably know better than I but helping analysis of large documents dumps would be a great help to Congressional committees or sub committees without huge staffs
perris @ 28
Excellent point. The corporations and super-wealthy individuals who have received the benefits in the last 6 years are not the majority of Americans.
jerry nadler @ 33
pointing out relevant nuggets of info in 1000’s of pages of documents can really help the Cong. staff and of course, publizing info on the internet has been shown to be able to bring grteat pressure on the mainstream media to print it.
Cong. Nadler at 30 — We’ve done some reporting on the poll tax issues, and the Delay redistricting in Texas. And quite a bit on the USAs as well. What a mess. I understand that the civil rights division at the DoJ has lost close to 60% of its former career staff — and I’m wondering if you can talk a bit about the impact that such a loss can have in terms of civil rights enforcement? And what plans may be in the works in terms of oversight on this?
And also if you have any thoughts about Alice Fisher, the head of the Political Corruption division that is currently leading the Abramoff investigation, despite her close ties to Tom DeLay and others who are at the center of that mess. I understand she was a recess appointment, but I wonder if any oversight is planned on why there has been so little movement on the Abramoff investigation to date?
I’ve noticed Frank, Waxman and Hoyer’s debate skills. Hoyer was particularly effective during the emergency appropriations bill. Waxman has been tremendous in Oversight hearings. He dispenses with disruption and keeps the committee on track. I’ll watch for Markey. I like his agenda; Banning Torture, Network Neutrality, Nonproliferation, America’s Energy Challenge.
jerry nadler @ 34
Congressman, What’s the best way to offer our efforts to official parties? Most of the efforts so far are documented on blogs. But we don’t know if the right people are seeing it.
Rep. Nadler,
How do you determine who will receive funds from your Leadership PAC? Is it someone’s stands on particular issues? Their own fundraising needs? Their past fundraising ability? Their opponent (primary or general election)?
Congressman Nadler @ 34
Are you aware of what some of the blogs have done wrt documents released for USA scandal? Talkingpointsmemo got volunteers to go thru the docudump & one found the 18-day gap, among other prizes. Another example, it seemed that some D aide was reading this site when we were live blogging during a hearing (Doan?) because questions posed here were subsequently asked in the hearing. Can this type of activity be coordinated better & if so how?
Mad Dogs @ 26
Dear MD: I don’t know. Since unforunately about 1/3rd of Dems joined all of the Reps. in supporting Brkcy Bill it is difficult to see at this point a good prospect repealing it. We are going to take a close look to see if we can cherry pick provisions that are really damaging That we can dramatize and assemble a majority for repeal or amendment.
. In addition the substitution of politics for science for climate change and the “morning after pill” also Just. Dept. approving clearly discrimatory redistricting plans for Tx and Ga what the courts ruled was a poll tax in Ga. All against the advice of the career civil servants.
There has also been systematic flouting of the law at the EPA, among other places–where political apppointees have directed civil servants to not comply with statutory requirements. The administration is unwilling to enact legislation reversing environmental protections because it knows how unpopular such legislation would be. So it simply doesn’t follow the law as enacted.
congressman nadler,
this brooklyn native has always been impressed by your stands. you have never disappointed me.
my question: we have seen the all but total takeover of nonpolitical agencies by corporate/political idealogues, everything from justice dept. to epa to the science/medical research arms. i fear it will take more than the 08 election to clean house. i.e., is this now a long-term problem, and if so, how best to solve it?
p.s. how about those mets?
Welcome Congressman Nadler. I don’t know if you have seen it, but the University of Virginia has a collection of Thomas Jefferson’s letters, and it is always enlightening to me to read them. He was such a visionary that it is sometimes like a bolt of lightening when I read them. Hope this is helpful. Jefferson’s Letters.
Congressman Nadler.
Thank you for your service.
You are one of my heroes. ;->
Christy Hardin Smith @ 36
the subcomm held a hearling two weeks ago on the subversion of the civ. rts. Div. at DOJ. All the obvious facts were brought out. It garnered a fair amount of publicity including about the 60% of carreer staff who have left. We will continue oversight. I am not aware of any leg. proposals that could materially affect the appointment process.
perris @ 28
Beautifully said.
welcome and thanks for all you do….wish you were my congressman. Wally Herger isn’t interested in anything I have to say.
Peterr @ 40
I’d love to hear an answer to that too. By the way, anyone who would like to help out with that effort, need only click here to get directly to the Act Blue page for Jerry. And there are still plenty of signed books.
eCAHNomics @ 40
The way this type of activity could be better coordinated would be to talk to relevant Cong. staff people on an ongoing basis.
jayackroyd @ 42
You are exactly right. We are currently scheduling hearings on the deprivation of substantive due process of law by the EPA when it lied to NY-ers about the air being safe to breath after 9/11 as an example.
nadler@52
Could someone senior at this site get the introductions?
One issue not yet mentioned here, but central to your subcommittee’s work, is Bush’s consistent practice of substituting a “signing statement” for a presidential veto.
As I view the dynamics of the recent battles over the Iraq supplemental funding bill, I can easily envision a scenario where the president reluctantly accepts some version of what was recently passed, but attaches a signing statement saying basically “I’ll do whatever I want in my capacity as C-in-C, including ignoring the end date in this act for redeploying troops.”
Where do things stand in your subcommittee, or the full committee, on examining Bush’s use of signing statements, and holding him accountable for actually enforcing and living by the laws that have been properly adopted by Congress and signed by himself?
dmg @ 43
Yes this is a very real problem. It will take two things to reverse it. 1) Wholesale new appoontments by a Dem Pres. in 2009. 2) Ongoing and energetic oversight by Congress regardless of which party is in power in the exec. branch. You can’t pass a bill to do this.
Congressman Nadler — Good on you for all you do. I’m fairly well represented in my MA district but I would prefer to be represented by Barney Frank (or you, were I from NY).
To the extent that you can, would you consider commenting on some views I’ve been expressing to other progressives (albeit those suffering more from “normaloia” than I am) :) To wit:
At that point, senior members of the “real” Repubs (remember Senators Golwater, Hugh Scott, Nelson Rockefeller et. al. walking to Nixon’s WH to tell him he must resign?) will realize that they must eject Bush/Cheney if conservatism is to have any chance for at least a decade.
Then if the Repubs can manage it somehow, some other Repubs would step in for the balance of the term, or Pelosi and the Dems would step in. Either way, I think the Repubs would accept it, given that they might survive to fight another day, and perhaps even pin more of the Iraq debacle on the progressives. I tell my friends that I think the probability of this is about .5 and rising, as more and more stinking revelations are exhumed. Whaddayathink?
howieklein @ 50
Thanks for the reminder, Howie. I just chipped in $25. Anyone want to match me?
Are NY reps planning on being helpful in revealing Giuliani’s post 9/11 shortcomings as he runs for prez? Digging up lower West St. to look for 9/11 human remains can’t do G. any service. Can we make that more of a national news item?
Congressman Nadler,
Thank you for all that you’ve done and continue to do. There are many reasons to be a proud New Yorker…you’re one of the top ones. I’m not in your district, but my heart votes for you every two years.
eCAHNomics @
53
Congressman, if that is possible, we will all take direction from whoever gets the introductions.
G’mornin’ Congressman! I don’t envy the mess you have to untangle, but I’m sure many people – myself included – appreciate your efforts.
Just a couple of questions asked from personal curiousity…Does the topic of the application of presidential signing statements to legislation fall within the bounds of your committee? If you can comment on that topic, what do you think of that practice?
jerry nadler @ 21
Are they worried about the GOP primary voters, then? Grover Norquist was quoted recently as saying that the issue for them isn’t Iraq, it’s Bush — and that they want their Republicans to obey Bush no matter what, even if it means they get their asses kicked in ‘08.
howieklein @ 49
It is a combination of factors 1) progressive politics, 2) need, is a Dem progressive incumbent in danger or is there a real possiblity of replacing a Rep. with a progressive Dem. 3) Obviously don’t waste money on candidates with plenty of money without help 4) influence within Congress. Can helping a certain candidate increase progressive influence generally or my own influence in Congress.
Congressman, thank you for your fine work. I was wondering if there is any real possibility that election funding can be addressed in Congress in the realistic future. I look at the amounts disclosed by the Presidential candidates and am appalled – we need representatives (like you) responsive to citizens, not well-financed interest groups. I think this is at the root of many of our problems, not the least of which is the Iraq war – contractors, mercenaries etc. Thanks for your comments.
eCAHNomics @ 52
Sure we could probably arrange that.
Which congressmen would be most receptive to a citizen inquiry about whether imported minimine-tainted food grade wheat gluten has found its way into our (human) food supply?
Rep. Nadler at 65 — Howie and I would be more than happy to help coordinate on that, I’m sure. And I’m certain that your staff has Howie’s contact information. Anything we can do to help…
Mr. Sunshine and I would like to know what can persuade your delegation colleague Hillary Clinton to stop triangulating on the Iraqle Debacle and speak out strongly for bringing troops home, alive and whole and soon.
Senator Edwards is showing real leadership on this and other issues… Senator Obama is showing leadership in vision, too.
Where’s Hillary’s leadership?
jerry nadler @
65
Christy, Can you arrange that with the Congressman?
TJ at 69 — Most likely, but it certainly won’t be on the chat thread. *g*
Christy Hardin Smith @ 57
Matched plus $0.01, of course.
Peterr @ 53
The Pres.’s misuse of signing statements is a real problem. The Judiciary Committee had a hearing on this 6 or 8 weeks ago, you cannot prevent a Pres. from saying anything he likes when signing a bill. First Amendment etc. On the otherhand, that cannon justify disobeying the law or ignoring his duty to enforce the law. That is contempt for the law and if egregious enough grounds for impeachment. Short of impeachment the only recourse is the court.
Congressman Nadler, as one of your constituents I just wanted to say Thank You! for all your work for us and your service to the nation!
Prairie Sunshine @ 68
I’m pretty disappointed at Obama’s statement that if Bush vetoed the spending bill, they’d pass one without timelines. That’s just inviting the veto. I’m behind Reid and Feingold.
Mike at 71 — Thanks much! I’m sure Rep. Nadler’s PAC will put it to very good use. Every little bit helps!
Congressman Nadler, what do you think about Rep. Pelosi pulling out the language that would require the Bush administration to consult the congress before pre-emptively attacking Iran based on unsubstantiated claims being repeated by the “cakewalk in Iraq” radicals about an “alleged” nuclear weapons program in Iran?
I know that Senator Webb has now put forth Senate Bill 759 that would require that the Bush administration get an o.k. from the congress before pre-emptlively attacking Iran.
What is your thinking about this issue?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 70
Smiles. No, I didn’t think so. But I wanted to make sure that you were still here!
How is is legally possible for the administration to flout administrative law?
I understand that agencies create the regulations that enable the laws just passed. Once created and published – through the administrative process of hearings and so on – the regulations ARE law. That’s what we learned in Admin. Law. No administrator can decide willy-nilly to ignore or defy administrative law or a regulation.
Progressives love our rules. I’m outraged that this administration defies the rules as if they aren’t actual laws. They treat laws like suggestions and it drives me crazy!
jerry nadler @
63
Well said.
You might want to have a campaign staff person continue to check out these Blue America threads — both past threads and those to come. Howie brings a great collection of candidates around to chat, and I for one have found some wonderful progressives flying underneath the DC radar.
jerry nadler @ 63
The object of increasing Congressman’s Nadler’s influence in Congress– and the handful of others like him– is as important as electing generic Democrats. A Congressful of Rahm Emanuel clones catering to Big Business isn’t what we’re looking for. Helping Congressman Nadler take a bigger role in Democratic Caucus leadership is why I was eager to help raise some money today. Again, the Act Blue Page is here. Add a penny if you want to Jonathan Tisch signed book.
S.O.S. from MA @ 55
I tell my friends that I think the probability of this is about .5 and rising, as more and more stinking revelations are exhumed. Whaddayathink?
I think the probability is much less. The timing is wrong. The odds would be much better if this were the first half, not the second half, of Bush’s term. To pursue impeachment we would have to have all sorts of investigations to find impeachable offenses for the balance of this year. This we will do in any event. But I personally doubt that the country will have much stomach for actually persuing an impeachment next year in the middle of a Pres. campaign with only a few months left on Bush’s term.
congressman,
it would be a great service to the country if your committee could provide hearings on all the bushites’ faux logic and illegal activities masquerading as legitimate readings of the executive’s constitutional authority.
from yoo/gonzales “torture is ok” memo, to warrantless wiretaps, to signing statements that ignore the legislation they are attached to, it is at the very least time to show the nation just how discredited these power grabs are. and beyond the civics lesson, it is powerful material to assemble to thoroughly expel this type of behavior from future administrations as well.
Congressman Nadler,
I’ve become such a cynic during this administration. I cannot believe that anything they endorse or promote can be good for anybody other than their well-heeled corporate buddies.
A story in today’s NY Times about food aid to Zambia has me quite perplexed. The Bush admin’s proposal to send some direct cash to help alleviate a food shortage seems, on its face, to make sense. Yet business interests have been lobbying successfully against changing the law that requires all US food aid to be grown here, and shipped via US shipping companies.
So, part of my brain thought, wow, Bush got one right. Then the other part kicked in, “no way. what’s the catch?”
What do you think about this issue?
eCAHNomics @ 57
There will be hearings in several different committees in both the House and Senate on the environmental and health aspects of 9/11. Giuliani’s failure to enforce the OSHA laws and the consequent reality of 50,000 or more first responders suffering severe health consequences may very well figure in one or more of these hearings
When one’s state is small enough that the Congressman takes time from the state Dem convention to drop by one’s daughter’s wedding reception, it’s hard to visualize the disconnect that most people have with government.
From your perspective, Cong. Nadler, what are the best tools we can apply to involve people in their government? Is the “they all do it” “my vote [voice] doesn’t count” mindset too entrenched? What would you consider the top three in an action plan to restore integrity and honor to our federal government?
Rep Nadler @ 72
The distinction between what Bush says in a signing statement and what he does after issuing the statement is indeed a critical distinction.
Has your committee staff compliled a list of situations where Bush may have gone beyond simply “saying” what he believes the limits of a given law are and moved into the territory of disregarding a law’s provisions? Or was that recent hearing a starting point for this whole discussion?
Nadler@85
Bless you and all the Ds.
Phoenix Woman @ 61
I don not know. Rep primary voters historically have been very loyal even to disastorous republican Presidents. The pattern may very well hold.
howieklein @ 80
Done! And Howie, thanks for arranging for my Congressman to be here today. This is thrilling.
jerry nadler @ 81
I think the probability is much less. The timing is wrong. The odds would be much better if this were the first half, not the second half, of Bush’s term. To pursue impeachment we would have to have all sorts of investigations to find impeachable offenses for the balance of this year. This we will do in any event. But I personally doubt that the country will have much stomach for actually persuing an impeachment next year in the middle of a Pres. campaign with only a few months left on Bush’s term.
Congressman Nadler, If Bush and Cheney are not impeachable at this point. What about lower level officials in the Bush administration who have “allegedly” committed impeachable offenses. John Dean wrote a three part series (@JohnDeanfindlaw) on impeaching these lower level officials who have been able to move in and out of administrations (doing their dirty work) and have never been held accountable for past crimes.
Impeaching Rove, Feith, Perle, Wolfowitz and others so that they cannot hold any office in a future administration.
tom tom @ 63
Public financing of campaigns or even better the clean elections act introduced by Cong. Tierney of MA, is essential if our democracy is not to continue deteriorating into oligarchy. The current political financing system is a metastasized cancer on our democracy. We must have radical surgery. I think we have a fair shot if we have a Dem President and Congress.
Naddler @ 92
Sorry if I’ve missed it, but have you endorsed any of the Ds running for prez? If so, who? If not, why not & when will you decide?
if i missed it sorry , But How can the members of the republicain party ask gonozales (teach) him the answer the the question comeing up on the april 17 hearing? This can not be good for the country
The way this type of activity could be better coordinated would be to talk to relevant Cong. staff people on an ongoing basis.
What’s tricky about this is that staff, properly, try to stay in the background. It’s hard to know how and when to reach them, and who are the right people to talk to. And it’s also difficult to communicate successful interactions, because, generally speaking, staffers don’t want us talking about them.
Prairie Sunshine @ 67
I think Hillary, despite a slow start, is taking a reasonably good position. she supported the Senate Res. to impose a timetable to withdraw the troops. she has stated that the Dems in congress should stick to our guns and face down the Pres. if he vetoes a time lines bill. I think former Sen. Edwards has taken a similar position. I am more concerned currently about Sen. Obama who seemed to say the other day that the Dems should surrender in Congress to the Pres’s veto of a time lines bill. I hope he reconsiders or clarifies this comment.
Hello, Congressman Nadler. Welcome to Firedoglake!
Just wanted to thank you for your service and ask that you keep on standing up and giving hell to those crooks who broke all the rules and got away with it for so long – please put an end to that and make them accountable for their actions!
Jerry Nadler @95 – From your lips to Senator Obama’s ear!
jerrynadler@ 92: “Public financing of campaigns or even better the clean elections act introduced by Cong. Tierney of MA, is essential if our democracy is not to continue deteriorating into oligarchy. The current political financing system is a metastasized cancer on our democracy. We must have radical surgery. I think we have a fair shot if we have a Dem President and Congress.”
That’s very heartening to hear. Given that so many Dems seem to be DLC or DLC-lite, I’m pleased with your “fair shot” assessment if we get a Dem president and congress.
Kathleen @ 75
As a matter of Constitutional Law it is clear, in my opinion, that the Pres. cannot attack another country without advance Congressional authorization. Speaker Pelosi promised the Dem. Caucus that we would have a floor vote on a bill reaffirming that the Pres. cannot attack Iran without prior congressional authorization. Either as free standing bill or as part of the military authorization bill, in the next couple of months.
Congressman Nadler:
Isn’t Russ Feingold your opposite number in the Senate? Are the two of you co-ordinating as to issues to investigate?
And now here’s a tough one.
The policy in Iraq has been, from the outset, one that intended a permanent occupying force of about 50,000 troops, replacing the Saudi and Kuwait presence with a compliant client state. The compliant client state part isn’t working out so well, but as far as I can tell, the plan is still for a permanent occupation force, which is apparent from the statements of Clinton, Obama and Edwards.
There is no internal national defense force in place in Iraq–no air, no armor, no logistical capability that is not owned and operated by Americans.
There is a strong national consensus for complete withdrawal as soon as practicable.
This adds up to a serious problem that I don’t hear anybody discussing clearly and honestly in Congress or the White House.
What will it take to get out of Iraq? Are the bills that call for withdrawal actually possible to put into effect?
howieklein @ 80
Increasing Jerry’s influence is a way to benefit progressive causes across the board. There is no one serving in Congress today who is smarter or more principled than Jerry Nadler. Lower Manhattan residents have been engaged in an uphill battle to get EPA to conduct proper cleanup of homes, schools and offices contaminated with asbestos, lead, fiberglass and a host of other hazards that penetrated buildings from the collapse of the World Trade Center. Jerry has been our great champion–he was the first on the scene in the beginning, and he has never stopped fighting. He has sought out every possible opportunity to push for EPA accountability, to force EPA to act protectively, to compel the Bush admin to fund health care for all those whose health has been harmed. Now that Jerry will get a chance to hold a hearing, we will get some long sought answers!
Thank you, Jerry!!
jerry nadler @ 81
I think the probability is much less. The timing is wrong. The odds would be much better if this were the first half, not the second half, of Bush’s term. To pursue impeachment we would have to have all sorts of investigations to find impeachable offenses for the balance of this year. This we will do in any event. But I personally doubt that the country will have much stomach for actually persuing an impeachment next year in the middle of a Pres. campaign with only a few months left on Bush’s term.
If a Republican controlled congress had the stomach and nerve to spend a great deal of time on impeaching a sitting President for lying under oath about a B.J. Why did the Republican controlled congress refuse to accept responsibility for congressional oversight in regard to lies about WMD’s, record breaking oil profits, warrentless wiretaping, torture, etc.
I just don’t get it. If the congress and the nation had the “stomach” for that charade why not for an impeachment of far more serious crimes?
What does that say about our leaders priorities?
mrobinsong @ 77
In my opinion it is not legally possible but it takes law suits and court decisions to hold the administration responisble and that takes time. In addition, it is questionable that we can trust a bench stuffed with Bush Federalists types to enforce the law.
jerry nadler @ 99
That is good news!
Peterr @ 85
That recent hearing was intended to be a starting point for the whole discussion. Looking into all these instances is on the list of tasks for the Judiciary comm staff along with all the other priorities along with Habeas corpus, enemy combatants, warrentless wiretapping and a host of others.
Congressman;
Thank you for your time and initiative in participating in this new medium of communicating with constituencies.
Your mentioning re-education of Americans brings up a topic I’ve stewed about for a long time: that most people are hard pressed to make heads or tails of what even the local county representatives are all about, much less the bigger picture State and Federal level.
It seems a shame we have to resort to crisis mode of committee investigations to set the clock back upright. There has got to be a way to put the “WE” back into “WE THE PEOPLE” when it comes to participatory government. But I’m afraid that too many have been convinced that their vote doesn’t count or they don’t know enough to vote smart. It’s not enough to simply vote the party line, as your own voting record shows.
Mandatory voting like Australia has is just one of many structural remedies, and I’d like to see a lot more ideas put on the table for discussion that could help the health of our democracy.
Congressman Nadler: Who, in your opinion, are some viable candidates we have not yet heard of, who could win seats and push the progressive agenda forward?
Rep. Nadler, what is the current impression among Democratic Congressinal reps about the netroots? Do they buy into the talking about that portrays interested citizens as a bunch of far-left hippies in pajamas? Or are they starting to wake up to the fact that we’re regular folks who happen to care a great deal about are country and are using the internet as a tool to participate in what is supposed to be a participatory democracy?
You are my congressman. I have written and emailed you in the past about issues and always received a thoughtful response.
Next month I will be moving to another state, and I am saddened that I will no longer be able to vote for you (I have done so 6 times), but wanted to thank you for all the hard work you have done for the district and the country.
So thank you.
mrsmarks @ 109
Sorry about the typos. I spell-checked — promise!
eCAHNomics @ 92
Yes I have endorsed Hillary. She is a Senator from my state, and I have therefore worked with her very closely on a number of different issues such as 9/11 clean up and health issues for example. I think she would make a very good President. I also think she probably has the best odds of winning the general election against who ever the Rep.’s put up. I am also influenced by the fact that I have observed her taking a number of very progressive actions for their own sake without any publicity as for example, when she persuaded Pres. Clinton to veto the Bkrcy Bill that was signed into law by Pres. Bush 5 years later.
Congressman: sorry if I missed the answer to this question already.
What are the top priorities for your Subcommittee? What investigations or hearings do you have planned specifically for your subcommittee? As far as I can tell, even if there is some overlap of interest on different subcommittees, it appears this congress is very organized in deciding which subcommittees take the lead on specific issues.
So, what issues are on your specific subcommittee’s task list, and what are the top issues you are working on?
Kathleen @ 103
Right on. I have not been able to understand why even our liberal leaders have been so wishy-washy about impeachment. Impeachment exists precisely for this Constitutional Crisis we are now in.
Rep. Nadler: What more does the Shrub have to do before we begin impeachment proceedings?
Bugboy @ 107
National uniform voting standards is a must! A paper trail is critical, and I would like to witness International observance of the integrity of our voting process.
I believe anyone who stands against a national uniform voting system wants the voting hanky panky that goes on in many states to continue!
jerry nadler @ 104
I don’t know how we can fix this then. Sure, a Dem congress can drain the swamp and after ‘09 can turn things around on bills that are signed by our guy. But how do we fix the disrespect for law? Journalist and citizens don’t seem to know that disrespect for law is ruinous to a democracy.
sofistic @ 108
I am not familiar with all of the Congressional seats in the country but to mention a few that I know about, Dan Maffei is a progressive who got 49% of vote against Jim Walsh in Syracuse NY. Eric Massa almost beat Randy Kuhl also in upstate NY. Christine Jennings in Fl. had an apparent victory stolen from her by 18,000 votes not being counted by electronic voting machines in Sarasota Co. Fl. Mary Jo Kilroy almost beat Deborah Pryce in Oh. Some or all of these candidates will run again next year and ought to be supported. I am sure there are others.
I’m not opposed to impeachment, but please remember even getting rid of both Bush and Cheney doesn’t solve the conditions that allowed them to get in the driver’s seat in the first place.
Greetings Mr. Nadler,
As a supporter of Hillary Clinton for President, I’m curious as to what has led you there. Could you provide some insight into what she has done so far in congress to warrant her sitting in our President’s office?
p.s. personally, I don’t think this country wants to deal with another Clinton Whitehouse, considering the (Clinton )baggage that is sure to get in the way of progress.
Congressman Nadler, It has become painfully evident to me that too many US citizens have become uninformed with regard to the principles upon which our nation was founded. Would you support legislation to increase and enhance the teaching of more civics classes to our youth in school so that they might be more able to discern and avoid electing leaders who would stray off the path?
I’m glad to learn that Senator Clinton influenced her husband to veto the bankruptcy bill passed on his watch.
However, she was the lone no-show on the vote that DID pass the bill under Bush, if I remember correctly. She may have been ill, I don’t know. But it’s always been curious that she didn’t vote at all on this atrocious bill once she had presidential ambitions of her own.
mrsmarks @ 111
Mrs. Marks:
I think most members of Cong. Dems and Reps, now understand that the Internet is a huge medium of communications and will work a revolution in politics as great as or greater than the advent of television ads 50 years ago. They know that they have to understand it though most still don’t. Most Dems. I think now understand that the netroots are a major and growing constituency for the party.
Congressman Nadler.
You have been a leading advocate for securing our ports. Why do you think the President has placed such a small emphasis on one of the most vulnerable access points to the country and how can we move to protect them?
Congressman Nadler, do you think the National Security of our nation has suffered due to the heavily weighted influence of A*I*P*A*C on our foreign policy in the middle east?
I have talked with several representatives who have stated that many reps on the hill are afraid to talk about this out loud?
This may get me flamed, but I have to agree with Rep. Nadler on the subject of impeachment vis-a-vis the public’s appetite for such a move. Does this president deserve it? Absolutely. But do Americans want to re-live the ugliness of the last impeachment? I don’t think so. I look around my own family, which consists mostly of low-information unaffiliated voters with a couple of hardcore Dems here and a couple of can’t-blast-them-into-reality Republicans there, and I don’t see impeachment going down well at all.
In spite of being late to the party, I’m kicking in the most I can, Congressman Nadler.
Because we need real Democratic leadership!
Congressman,
I want to thank you for your straight talk with us. You give me hope that we can change the travesty the Bush administration has created.
I’ll be donating as soon as our financial situation reverses.
Kathleen @ 115
One of the things our subcommittee is going to be dealing with during this Congress is to attempt to develope a bill for national uniform voting standards for federal elections. Elections in the U.S. have alsways been considered a local responsibility but the Constitution clearly gives Congress the power to regulate federal elections. Prior to passage of the Constititutional amendment that granted the right to vote to 18 year olds Congress did so by law for federal elections. This was upheld in Court.
congressman,
i appreciate your candor and your sense of what is pragmatically possible in washington; surely you’re right in assessing that the timeline is too compressed for most legislators to seek impeachment proceedings for this lawless administration.
BUT STILL…
there is no question that this administration has committed impeachable offenses, and has done so brazenly, to keep the protectors of the constitution and our democracy back on their heels.
at the very least, there should b some effort to catalogue all the very many ways this administration has defied the rule of law in this country, to the betterment of the few at the expense of the many. history will honor those who try to bring these criminals before some bar of justice. whether that’s in a formal prosecution, or more likely in the public arena of the congressional chambers, it should be done.
Rushton @ 120
Yes I think this is essential.
I hope you will be mindful of Oliver North. He became a hero.
Congressman, is there any requirement that newly elected members of the House and Senate get a crash grounding in basic American civics, or be required to know the same info as people seeking to become American citizens?
Greetings Mr. Nadler,
As a supporter of Hillary Clinton for President, I’m curious as to what has led you there. Could you provide some insight into what she has done so far in congress to warrant her sitting in our President’s office?
p.s. personally, I don’t think this country wants to deal with another Clinton Whitehouse, considering the (Clinton )baggage that is sure to get in the way of progress.
Congressman Nadler:
Would you consider a move into the US Senate, if Hillary moves into the White House?
Congressman Nadler, I agree that timing for impeachment is lousy and that by the time we get through all the oversight hearings to exhume all the wrongdoing people will likely be suffering scandal fatigue. But I think we must take some action so that whoever is in office next doesn’t use W’s actions as precedent. What other action is there against bad actions of a president than impeachment?
jerry nadler @ 131
i too cannot understand what happened to a formal civics training. given that the federal government has become more involved with curriculum on a local level — i.e., no child left behind and the testing it requires — i would think it reasonably easy to fold in some requirement for civics training.
of course, then you’d have republicans arguing that any curriculum about checks and balances among the three arms of the government is hopelessly liberal, and bleating about the need to “teach the controversy.”
dmg @ 129
Agree. The other issue I see here is that if the Clinton impeachment is going to be seen as the one people remember, that effectively takes it out of the tool kit for which it was originally meant to be used. There can be no doubt that this administration has committed high crimes and misdemeanors. If we are no longer able to pursue justice at the highest level, then we might as well pack it in.
Whether or not there is time for this process to play out, it must be used or it will never be able to be used again. That’s just my humble opinion.
And welcome to the Lake. You have done extraordinary work on behalf of the country, Rep. Nadler. I can understand why you are backing Hillary, but I am sorry to hear it. I don’t think she’s the best we have got and another Clinton in the WH who has the backing of the DLC and Rupert Murdoch does not bode well.
Mike Rogers @ 123
The President and the Republicans in Congress have opposed legislation requiring (that I sponsored) that all shipping containers be screened for bombs, etc. before being loaded on ships bound for American ports. This would seem essential to our security. They have claimed that the technology to do this does not exist. This is nonsense. There are a half a dozen different technologies to do this. They have proposed “studying” the question instead. I said on the Floor it was good that Pres. Bush was not Pres. in 1942 because we would have “studied” building aircraft carriers and submarines instead of actually building them. The real reason I suspect that Pres. Bush and the Reps. oppose cargo screening is that mega-companies like Wal-Mart oppose it because it would impose a cost on them.
I’m also thinking along the lines of what others have commented about in terms of civics education, and not just in primary education. There’s lots of workplace education that could be dovetailed into a opportunities for civics classes.
Businesses have safety classes all the time; and are motivitated to for a variety of reasons. Why not civics?
I have heard many in the MSM describe bloggers this way. They are obviously terrified! They know (as we do) that the Internet has provided a healthy way for the public to go below the MSM’s superficial coverage of many issues. They created this need. The latest and very serious example of this is the “groupthink” of many in the MSM in the run-up to the invasion.
Chris Matthews along with Olbermann have been asking some tough questions since the invasion! I have yet to hear any of the mainstreamers ask the simple question “where is the verifiable evidence to back up the inflammatory claims about Iran’s “alleged” nuclear weapons program? These claims have gone unchallenged by the MSM, and have been constantly repeated by the “cakewalk in Iraq” radicals.
These unsubstantiated claims about Iran have been allowed to go unchallenged so often that polls report that 70% of the American people now believe that Iran posesses nuclear weapons.
Deja Vu! This did not happen through osmosis. This happenned because the MSM is still not doing their jobs!
dmg @ 129
With respect congressman . . . the Constitution provides for only one remedy for a president that abuses power. In this case the list is long and egregious. For something as serious as high crimes and misdemeanors, impeachment will ALWAYS be the right time.
jerry nadler @ 81
I think the probability is much less. The timing is wrong. The odds would be much better if this were the first half, not the second half, of Bush’s term. To pursue impeachment we would have to have all sorts of investigations to find impeachable offenses for the balance of this year. This we will do in any event. But I personally doubt that the country will have much stomach for actually pursuing an impeachment next year in the middle of a Pres. campaign with only a few months left on Bush’s term.
First may I say a big FirePup THANK YOU for participating in one of the most responsive and articulate Congressperson-liveblog-interview sessions that I (for one, and I haven’t seen ‘em all) have seen on any blog.
Your awareness and assessment of the present and future significance of the ‘net for our politics is refreshing (and I believe correct.) Thanks for staying “up” on this medium and for joining us at “the Lake” today.
With all due respect, Sir, I do believe you answered my #55 too quickly. (Ideas do come and go so quickly here, neh?)
I (with regret) have also concluded that the timing is not right for a (D)-instituted formal impeachment proceeding. This despite the fact that NOT impeaching that pack of thieves effectively turns the impeachment clauses of the U.S. Constitution into a dead letter.
Nevertheless, I hypothesized that the (R)s will come to their senses and force Bush/Cheney from office (by either private meetings or public abandonment of Bush’s positions) purely as a self-preservation effort.
It was that latter prediction about which I asked “Whaddayathink?”
jerry nadler @ 139
Thank you!
Curious…
Was putting “Repupblicans” in your reply a typo or your way of saying — we all know the guys are nothing more than lap dogs to their Dear Leader (Just kidding, no need to answer — hehhehe)
dmg @ 129
I agree with you one of the things many Congressional committees including certainly the Judiciary Comm., will be doing in the next two years is bring to light and cataloguing all of the misdeeds and lawless actions of this administration. As I said I think the timing is wrong for impeachment but I certainly do hope and will urge at the time, that the Attorney general and the U.S. Attorney’s appointed by the Pres. in 2009 undertake criminal prosecutions of former Bush administration officials, including perhaps the ex-President, for crimes that will have come to light. In my judgment the warrentless wiretapping that the President has admitted authorizing (45 separate times) and that the Attorney General has admitted participating in, is a clear felony (or 45 felonies) and ought to be prosecuted. I have on several occassions in public hearings reminded high justice Dept. officials that the statute of limitations on many of these crimes runs well past the expiration of this President’s term.
I’m sorry Congressman, if I’m repeating a question that’s already been asked. I came late to the thread and didn’t want to take the time to read it all lest you be gone by the time I finished. My question is about the power of the chairmen of the commitees, specifically Senator Leahy at the Senate Judiciary. I was astounded and appalled to watch the incredible bad manners of -gosh, I can’t remember his name- the republican “gentleman” Who ranted on about how well he had run the commitee previously and then shouted at Leahy that he was going to have to “Bite It!”. Does the Chairman have any recourse to putting up with this kind of disruption and rudeness? Can he discipline or ban the offender?
Jacqrat @ 134
Like most Congress Members I would love to be a U.S. Senator. But it is not up to me if Hillary moves to the White House Gov. Elliot Spitzer will appoint her successor.
Hi Congressman-
As a fellow New Yorker, who lived under the Giuliani era, and a former constituent (I used to live at 23rd/7th and even remember the Tom Duane primary), I was wondering if we could get your opinion on Rudy’s new found reputation and how soon, if ever, the rest of the country might get to see him as we NYers do.
So you’re a fan of Rome I see. THIRTEENTH!!!
2 Billion a day…
Nothing for the ports.
Boston, New York so very vulnerable.
Boston1775 @ 150
All of the largest ports are dem strongholds. Why would the republicans want to protect them?
Mike Rogers @ 143
apologies from the typist.
Congressman Nadler, it is an honor to hear your perspective in/on this venue. My question is:
What was your reaction as a New Yorker, and what are your thoughts on the inability or inaction of the air defense on September 11, 2001 to protect the city? Have measures, to your knowledge, been put into place so that scenario will not be repeated?
jerry nadler @ 145
thanks for this. you have always shown yourself to be someone who follows through. i and many millions of other americans will look forward to seeing at least this much.
Congressman Nadler, I’m flat out in love with you. There. I’ve said it. Have been ever since the MonicaGate coverage when I first became aware of you. Your soul glows.
Here’s what Jefferson said about education:
Jefferson on education
mrsmarks @ 125
The whole world is laughing that our nation would spend so much money and time impeaching a sitting President for the lies under oath about B. Job. Yet our representatives have not been willing to impeach a sitting President over a very serious and destructive INTELLIGENCE SNOWJOB.
Our reps owe it to themselves, to us, to the people of Iraq! It is imperative that they hold all of the individuals who lied to our nation about WMD’s in Iraq and actively created and dessiminated false intelligence about WMD’s ACCOUNTABLE.
This is the very least that our reps can do for the hundreds of thousands of both Iraqis and Americans who who have needlessly lost their lives and been seriously injured in a war of choice! There is a huge difference between lies about a B.J. and lies about WMD’s and the misuse of intelligence.
If the American people are unable to see the difference there is no hope for us!
Any integrity and soul that our nation clings to depends on the need for ACCOUNTABILITY.
Although I think more civics in the classroom would be a great idea, I’m almost as dismayed by how little some members of Congress seem to know about them and also about the nuts and bolts of the difficult issues they are addressing.
I can understand not knowing the ins and outs of the details of every bit of a massive budget or tax code, but it has been very discouraging to hear some of what has come from Congress, even on the Democratic side of the aisle, with respect to the “war on terror” and Constitution in particular.
And then there’s the media.
When the director of the NSA says his people are fully trained on the 4th amendment, but then “forgets” not just probable cause, but the WHOLE of the warrant clause, and when he can sit in front of Congress, under oath, during the 9/11 hearings and pretend that he is operating under the same rules as before, and with that lack of understanding and veracity then become the head of the CIA and without there ever being any ripples of consequences, it is a sad thing. That he could put his employees at NSA in the position of directing them, for YEARS, to engage in warrantless wiretaps of American citizens in America, despite the clearly stated felony penalities in FISA, and put this country and its civil servants in such a posture – I just lose heart that we will ever again be a nation of laws.
There doesn’t seem to be any will to do anything about the massive breaches of law and separation of powers, and whatever path is taken in the future, when there are no consequences for massive lawbreaking by the elite non-elected, the country doesn’t really recover. It is still the battered spouse, waiting for what happens the next time, behind closed doors.
I appreciate you efforts on what are, to me, the absolute core issues that need to be addressed: a reexamination of the restrictions on habeas corpus, a re-examination of the Military Commissions Act, an examination into “extraordinary renditions,” properly defining “enemy combatants,” a look at what this whole business of “national security letters” is all about, warrentless wiretaps, torture, speedy trials…
I feel a bit burned by PACS after the votes of some of those supported by them on issues like the MCA, but I have faith in your decisions.
I’m not sure how it would fit with your hearings, but tied ot the wiretaps, NSL, etc. are the provisions of our national security laws that were intended to prevent the use of planted stories for domestic propaganda purposes. In watching the story of the President’s decision to have cherrypicked NIE information planted covertly with US reporters to help with political propagandizing for the war and upcoming elections, it seems to me that the very element of the statute prohibiting this type of activity is undisputed and of record.
Misusing information may be for a different committee, but Presidential disregard of Congressional limits on covert domestic propaganda hopefully is on someone’s list, somewhere.
Conversations like this have me feeling good about being American again. It’s been a long time since I’ve felt this way.
Yes, bring back Civics classes, and federal regulation of elections, with a paper trail for our ballots! May Ken Blackwell’s nefarious deeds be proscribed forever.
If it hadn’t been for a charismatic High School Civics teacher in the 1950s, I wouldn’t be the well-informed, outraged and politically active citizen that I am today. My children didn’t have the Civics classes I did in High School, but my wife and I made damn sure they know American History and how this country is supposed to work.
No more “teach-to-the-test” No Child Left Behind act, which eradicated many useful teaching hours (including, in many cases, Civics!) and has proved a giant boondoggle for the testing industry.
My contribution for the PAC is in. Thanks for what you’re doing, Rep. Nadler!
dratty @ 148
It is almost inexorable rule of Presidental campaigns especially lengthy campaigns like this one, that the main stream press, will turn on who ever seems to be ahead, at some point. I think we are going to see a lot of the problems of Rudy’s mayoralty resurectted in the Press, starting with Bernie Kerik. I think it is likely that the weaknesses as well as the strengths of Rudy’s role in the aftermath of 9/11 will come out in Congressional hearings in next few months.
Kathleen @ 153, if you checked my website (I don’t have a blog, just a random collection of geocities pages), you would see I’m all about impeachment.
But we do have to be smart about it. Right now, the Senate is controlled by 50 Democrats and Joe Lieberman. Think about that, and think about how a failed impeachment trial would hand the initiative back to a discredited Bush-Cheney administration.
I think the first and best use of impeachment would be on Abu Gonzales, should he try to lie his way into remaining in office.
Your response @ 145 tells me the Operation Sunshine concept is alive and well in the Congress.
Seems to me that one of our best efforts should be cast toward maintaining the brawny freedom of the ‘net… and archiving that which the Bush Administration would like to “disappear.”
Isn’t one of the problems that got us into Iraq and wants us to bomb Iran the influence AIPAC has over US foreign policy?
I’m Jewish, but it seems in Israel, people can debate these issues but here, if you say anything about AIPAC, you’re an Anti-Semite.
Your thoughts on AIPAC’s influence?
Currently we are relying on the MSM to “educate” us on what is going on in DC. Does anyone see the problem here?
does this country have the appetite for impeachment?
excuse me, I’m sorry, this country is demanding it…it’s the very reason democrats won both houses
sofistic @ 154
Here in Ohio it has been determined by the Ohio Courts three times that the distribution of education funds is “unconstitutional”. Yet the illegal and unfair distribution of education funds continues. A student in a wealthy suburb of Columbus may have $12,ooo a year spent on them. Yet a student in Glouster (old coal mining town) Ohio will have $6000.oo a year spent on them . Now how in the hell can a person “pull themselves up by the bootstraps’ when you start out with holes in your boots.
Many of these young people find themselves joining the military to access a college education. So goes “justice for all”
LS @ 153
For all the money we spend on the military, it was appalling that fighter jets had to be sent to New York from Massachusetts and couldn’t get here in time. What they would have done had they gotten here in time is another question. But the failure to have planes over the city in time showed appalling disorganization and confusion. I trust some steps have been taken at least with respect to response time.
TJ @ 158
Hear, Hear! I’ve also felt this way recently when seeing Barney Frank, holding a loaned Speaker’s gavel, wiping up the floor with his debating opponents; or watching Rep. Henry Waxman or Sen. Patrick Leahy display their intellects, patriotism and statemanship as they lead their respective Congressional Committees. And so many more, including Rep. Nadler.
Excelsior! Please keep making us proud to be Americans again.
News Grinder @ 155
Thank you.
Kathleen @ 166
Strickland is setting out to correct that and it’s about time.
sofistic @ 156
I cannot improve on that.
Congressman 168, Thank you so much for your answer to my question!
Re Impeachement, I agree but YOU GOTTA IMPEACH CHENEY FIRST or both together. The main reason to NOT impeach (as much as I’d like to see it) is that you’d give Cheney the presidency.
Cheney could then “run” for president and, ala Diebold, probably win. (See Ohio recount fraud prosecutions as well.)
So impeach Cheney first; maybe Gonzo first, then Cheney then Bush.
No offense Congressman Nadler, bc I think you are doing wonderful work, but “… doubt that the country will have much stomach for actually pursuing an impeachment next year” seems to be a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy within the Beltway.
I think if you look at polls, people are ready for this President to have to answer questions and they by and large already believe that he should be impeached. They feel that he has been allowed to abuse secrecy and misinformation and the whole of government to the point where no investigation would really uncover the extent of what was done – because Congress (and granted it was a mostly Republican controlled Congress, but almost always with large chunks of Dems siding with the Republicans) has failed.
Congress will have a very difficult time being viewed as anything but a failed and milquetoast institution of lobbyists and corporatists if it never actually takes action to assert its power. There is a reason why Congress is viewed so poorly throughout the country and it is not because it has taken stands that were “too strong” for the American populace to stomache. It is because Americans thought Congress would act as a check and it pretty much refused.
Institutionally, a Congress that fears impeachment more than the President will never regain wide respect, IMO.
Congressman Nadler enjoyed this very much and looks forward to doing this again. He is sorry he has to cut this off but he has a family function to attend and he thanks Howie Klein for arranging this blog interview.
jerry nadler @ 144
I know this won’t fly as a sound bite yet, but is anyone thinking about war crimes in this context?
And so it goes…
Thank you very much, Congressman Nadler! We have appreciated hearing your views, and thank you for listening to ours..
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 161
Yet if Liebermann (who knows what party he’s in) or any other Republican or Democrat were to vote againt impeachment proceedings based on very serious crimes committed by the Bush administration, do you know how absolutely hypocritical they (are) will look. The whole nation (if they are honest with themselves) will see the difference in the past impeachment proceedings and the very serious need that we have now for such proceedings.
I do believe that impeachment of lower level officials would suffice. Like throwing a few bones to those of us (literally millions of Americans) who have lost faith in our reps, and our judicial system (the 2000 Supreme court coup).
There are very serious reasons for the crisis in confidence that permeates the American peoples attitudes towards our reps. And that reason is SOLID AS IRAQ.
Congressman Nadler, thanks very much for a great session. I think it was one of the very best we’ve ever had since we started doing Blue America last year. I hope you’ll want to come back and let us know how things progress in your subcommittee. Have a great day.
thank you congressman.
and thank you howie.
i love it when guys from the old neighborhood get it going on.
jayackroyd @ 102
It was great that the Congressman dropped by, and I too was impressed by his candor. However, he has joined everyone else in public office in not addressing the question of permanent occupation in Iraq.
We need a straight story here, and we’re not getting it, from anybody.
News Grinder @ 171
Kathleen @ 166
sofistic @ 154
Here’s what Jefferson said about education:
“I know no safe depositary of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power.” –Thomas Jefferson to William C. Jarvis, 1820. ME 15:278
Jefferson on education
Here in Ohio it has been determined by the Ohio Courts three times that the distribution of education funds is “unconstitutional”. Yet the illegal and unfair distribution of education funds continues. A student in a wealthy suburb of Columbus may have $12,ooo a year spent on them. Yet a student in Glouster (old coal mining town) Ohio will have $6000.oo a year spent on them . Now how in the hell can a person “pull themselves up by the bootstraps’ when you start out with holes in your boots.
Many of these young people find themselves joining the military to access a college education. So goes “justice for all”
Strickland is setting out to correct that and it’s about time.
30% of Republicans in Ohio voted for Strickland. He was our congressperson here in southern Ohio. We miss him but many of us put thousands of hours to get him elected as our Governor. He will set things on the right path, he is the real deal.
[Mod Note; Please only nest 2 or 3 quotes at a maximum. Any more may break the margins. Thank You.]
jerry nadler @ 168
Yeah, you’re kinda cute, in a save my constitution sorta way!
Great thread! Thanks Congressman, Thanks Howie, Thanks FDL! :)
Pups-
It was obvious that people were feeling like they got a lot out of this session. But the contributions were the lowest– by far– in our history. If everyone who read today’s session would have given $5, we would have brought in around $30,000. Those $5 contributions are meaningful. Anyone want to give me some insight on why we were unable to bring in a reasonable amount of money today? I want to have other progressive incumbents on but I’m wondering if everyone just thinks we should stick to challengers.
Thanks Congressman Nadler!
jayackroyd @ 185
that’s probably because the answer is contained in the question.
the bases were always part of the reason for going over there.
realworld @ 177
jerry nadler @ 144
dmg @ 129
congressman,
i appreciate your candor and your sense of what is pragmatically possible in washington; surely you’re right in assessing that the timeline is too compressed for most legislators to seek impeachment proceedings for this lawless administration.
BUT STILL…
there is no question that this administration has committed impeachable offenses, and has done so brazenly, to keep the protectors of the constitution and our democracy back on their heels.
at the very least, there should b some effort to catalogue all the very many ways this administration has defied the rule of law in this country, to the betterment of the few at the expense of the many. history will honor those who try to bring these criminals before some bar of justice. whether that’s in a formal prosecution, or more likely in the public arena of the congressional chambers, it should be done.
–
I agree with you one of the things many Congressional committees including certainly the Judiciary Comm., will be doing in the next two years is bring to light and cataloguing all of the misdeeds and lawless actions of this administration. As I said I think the timing is wrong for impeachment but I certainly do hope and will urge at the time, that the Attorney general and the U.S. Attorney’s appointed by the Pres. in 2009 undertake criminal prosecutions of former Bush administration officials, including perhaps the ex-President, for crimes that will have come to light. In my judgment the warrentless wiretapping that the President has admitted authorizing (45 separate times) and that the Attorney General has admitted participating in, is a clear felony (or 45 felonies) and ought to be prosecuted. I have on several occassions in public hearings reminded high justice Dept. officials that the statute of limitations on many of these crimes runs well past the expiration of this President’s term.
–
I know this won’t fly as a sound bite yet, but is anyone thinking about war crimes in this context?
–
I really think Hagel is thinking this way! Hagel will end up being the Republicans man! He is willing to bring up impeachment…..
That was terrific. Thanks to Howie and everyone who put this together.
It is a little disturbing though to hear that even the good guys won’t pursue criminal prosecution if the timing happens to be inconvenient. Sigh . . .
Howie—it may be the different model. Normally we ask people for direct support for the candidate we are talking with; this is more indirect for unknown recipients. Just a guess.
Also it’s (1) a weekend (2) a holiday (3) much earlier time, started 8am for the west coast. Those are probably all factors as well.
Sonoma Rus @ 192
I was glad he said he thought they needed to be prosecuted for crimes. I’d love to see a lot happen to Bush– more than I’d say on a public website– but being indicted for crimes, tried, convicted, punished is way high up on my list.
Congressman, I agree that impeachment is unlikely because garnering enough GOP political support in the short remaining time of Bush’s term seems unlikely. However, in light of all the evidence that is available about the bogus pre-War intelligence and the subsequent torture, rendition, etc., and what was withheld from the Congress and the American people, do you think there is a case against Bush/Cheney et al for War Crimes after his term?
Howie,
I work for a school system which is stretched so thin that I am doing a job two people used to do.
I make so little money (in the 20’s, it’s laughable) yet I will make less next year.
My health care costs will be shifted to me by 10% more. I will also double my copay and emergency room costs.
Why does this man need 30,000 to talk with us?
Kathleen @ 178
Joe Lieberman hasn’t been shy about looking/being a hypocrite. But my point is, you need 60 votes in the Senate to win. And the Republican Senators in this millenium have been far less statesmanlike than those in Nixon’s time.
We are the worse off for it, no doubt.
P.S. I’m a Buckeye Stater, myself (Columbus). We have a pretty good representation at FDL. :)
Congressman, I am amazed and very impressed with your honesty and candor. I never expected to see any politician give such straight answers in a public forum.
Imagine if more politicians did this! It would be a revolution in and of itself.
Anyone want to give me some insight on why we were unable to bring in a reasonable amount of money today
I’d say people may have been busy reading – give it some time. I also normally expect actblue stuff to be more in the afternoon and not so much in the morning, and the Sat morning of Easter weekend is a tough time slot, esp if there wasn’t a lot of pre-buzz.
That’s just my take, but I think as the day goes on and esp if people in later threads send people back to this one, you’ll get more pop.
Sonoma Rus @ 193
i wasn’t gonna say, but you could make a case that the timing ISN’T such a problem.
the timeline on the clinton impeachment was pretty swift, and even the nixon impeachment hearings were held less than a year after the ervin investigations.
timing, um, could always be invoked as an excuse. it’s a matter of the will to press ahead.
Later this afternoon I have to write a check for $15,000 for my taxes. Believe me I would rather send that to the Blue Club. But I’m just pain tapped out right now. Ramen noodles for me again.
egregious @ 193
I think you may be right. I’m not sure what to do about it. In the past week both Rep. Hilda Solis and Senator Frank Lautenberg said they’d like to come on. If people would just rather we stick to challengers, though, we can. I know everyone was very enthusiastic about that model. Anyone who wants to share their ideas about it can write to me at downwithtyranny@aol.com
egregious @ 191
I have to say, I agree. After the 2004 election I stopped giving except directly to candidates of my own choosing. I am all finished with letting Schumer or Emanuel or other beltway elites decide who is best to be my representative. I have a limited amount of money to give, so I have to be choosy about where I can make the most good with it. ps. I live in Tancredo’s district
howieklein @ 185
I don’t know what to say about that, Howie. I kicked in 100.01 and the usual 10% tip. Usually I’m good for 50 to 100, and I try to make sure I get to your forums, whenever they are (although Tuesdays are a lot tougher, thanks to teh job).
howieklein @ 189
howie, at some point the pendulum will swing on my personal financial situation — and when it does, i will gladly disburse — but right now, i honestly don’t know anyone who would want to trade places with me.
Howie—I added more ideas on the 10:12 comment.
Ralph @ 196
Hell, it ought to be REQUIRED!
Boston1775 @ 196
He doesn’t. And he spoke about the need for fixing the electoral system so that it doesn’t degenerate into an oligarchy. But if our congressmen and candidates can’t raise money from the grasssroots they will either be defeated by Big Business-owned candidates or they will be forced to take money from Big Business interests themselves. I know there are plenty of people who can’t make ends meet and I don’t want to guilt anyone who doesn’t feel comfortable giving into giving. Period. There’s no shame in that– especially not from people who share their ideas and feelings. People who can give, for whom $5 isn’t a big stretch, could consider it.
conniptionfit @ 200
But that is the whole point of donating to Jerry Nadler’s PAC…so that we have Democratic leadership that isn’t Republican Lite.
(Note that my comment is in a thread about Harold Ford and the DLC. Harold Ford lost a race for the Senate in the most Democratic election year in recent history. So they put him in charge???!!!???)
$25.01 10%
howieklein @ 187
Hi Howie, I can’t say for sure, but it may have been the disclaimer in your introduction. Perhaps rephrasing it next time would be better. Or using a bit of sales pitch there?
I thought it was great, btw. Perhaps the time change had an affect as well. Some of our usual strong promoters for contributions weren’t present. HTH
dmg @ 198
Look guys, I’m impatient, too. But you MUST gather evidence before you can impeach. It has to be solid and overwhelming-and we just aren’t there yet. But we will be. And while I would prefer impeachment before the end of his term, I am very happy to hear Nadler suggest that he would push for criminal charges to be brought even after Bush’s term ends
Howie- FOr me it’s the direct thing-control and all that-as well as funds. Talking to non contenders is great but my funds will go directly to an FDL project or a TPM project or a candidate directly.
Just have been burned too many times-even when I think (as in this case) he will do good with the funds~his PAC is not the same as giving to candidates I beleive in
howieklein @ 190
Howie,
FWIW,
My next check to FDL will be for the Roots Project and will be written out in the next week. I, for one, plan to pledge a monthly amount to FDL and give to candidates that are good progressives. The promo for Nadler’s PAC sort of came out of the blue and this, like most things requires some education for us all. It’s an off day and a “holiday” weekend and was pretty evident by the population of a few regulars and lots of relatively new people on the threads.
Perhaps we need some coaching with a series of posts of where the most effective fund raising should be directed. I would suggest that Sat. afternoons are probably not the best to attract a wide audience since many folks are out doing errands. The series also needs to be cross posted at C&L, DWT, Kos, and MyDD for starters.
With all of the expertise around here, there’s still lots to learn about how to be most effective. For example, TRex did a great post a while back on writing LTE’s and to our congresscritters.
So much to do, so little time. And also, many folks here are on a limited budget which has been mentioned often.
Keep coaching us. Sooner or later we’ll catch on. And THANK YOU for all you are doing to help us help the country. Now I’ll go over and send a few bucks.
But Howie, surely there are non-money reasons for people to come talk with us? I hope that’s not the driving force.
howieklein @ 187
Howie – I vote for other progressives invites that you have in mind in addition to challengers who clearly warrant our support. And FWIW I know I am going to hit the Blue America link as soon as I get a second cuppa coffee.
Don’t be discouraged cause it is Easter weekend and this post was early and will surely pick up more donors throughout the weekend when pups like me will keep the donor message going on following threads thru the weekend.
Blue America is a national treasure and so are you!
Mary4 @ 199
Tnx for the reminder and the great thread. I just kicked in $X.01 plus a tip. Wish it could have been more. C’mon other Pups (if you’ve got the scratch), this was a truly worthwhile thing.
Howie,
As you say, it was one of the best! So thank you so much for all the hard work and for creating these events for us. Don’t let an off week deter you. Please.
thad matta @ 163
Honest dialogue on this issue is critical. How can Israelis feel safe, and the much needed Palestinian state become a reality!
Israel needs to stop with expansionist agenda, (James Baker actually said this at an A*i*p*a*c conference in the early 90″s) pull back to the internationally recognized 67 border, build the wall on this border not on Palestinian land, release Palestinian prisoners sign the non-proliferation treaty and abide by UN resolutions.
Palestinians have become desperate, and desperate people use desperate means.
[Edited daily ** by Mods] [ Please be kind and add your own *]
Kathleen @
124
I must have missed Nadler’s response to your question. Sadly, he offered less than nothing about our problems in the Middle-East.
It bothers me that A*I*P*A*C’s man at the State Department, Elliot Abrams — a convicted liar, continues to stymie peace in the Middle-East.
Thank you are having Congressman Nadler on, I am sure that his work will restore America to a democracy soon. And I will urge all of you to spend a couple of hours every week working to uphold your constitution, whatever your political views may be. Perhaps Christy, Jane, et al, can provide a list of these organizations.
I disagree with Mr. Nadler’s statement that the public will not stomach impeachment hearings in ‘08. On the contrary, I think it will put the Republican candidates on the back foot and cause a rout for the Democrats in the ‘08 elections.
The current hearings are causing major migraines for Republicans and when they continue into the November elections, will demoralize them and weaken their message.
Run Al Run !
PLovering @ 218
Most of our Reps avoid touching this issue. It would appear Nadler falls into that category. It is a sensitive and tough issue to discuss, openly, honestly and without people qualifying questions about the Israeli governments policies and our blind support of those policies into an “anti-Jewish” issue. This card is too often played to shut down the dialogue. Playing this card is ultimately destructive.
This has been slowly changing the last five years.
jerry nadler @
81
I find this just so disappointing. How can Congress just sit there when our Constitution is being trashed??? Haven’t you taken an oath to defend it? Especially since Cheney and Bush have made clear that they will keep on pushing the envelop to the very end, the only way to push back on this is to impeach them!!! I am coming to the view that opposing impeachment amounts to complicity in the crimes of Cheney and Bush. For the sake of our Democracy, these assaults on the Constitution must be smacked down but good!
Your committee has the responsibility to get out in front on this issue, just like the committees of Henry Waxman and Pat Leahy. The issue is not Bush-bashing; it is protecting our Constitution!
Please help us by finding out who is responsible for these unConstitutional policies, wherever the trail may lead, so that FDL can provide some good coverage.
This is something I feel very passionately about, and it is crazy-making to me to hear Democrats shrugging off impeachment in this way.
Bob in HI
I read fdl regularly but had no clue you did these chat/fundraising gigs. So it came as complete suprise to me to read at the end about the lack of response. To the other comments about it being morning, easter, etc, I’d add that it took me 5 minutes of searching to go back and find the web address. I did, though, and kicked in $50 tip. But so none of the rest of you have it as an excuse, here it is again (I hope I get it correct):
http://www.actblue.com/page/blueamerica08#12807
Well, it’s not an active link but most Democrats I know can cut and paste.
Ah, the chat program converted it to a link.
Cheers.
newspaperbrat @
216
Just donated $25.01 plus tip – and if there are any books left I’d love a copy and will share it with my circle of readers. Thanks for all your hard work and inspiration Howie! Any updates on the e-bay auction idea – think it is a winner but am not sure the email I sent you with our non-profit org success with quarterly ebay auctions awhile ago made it thru the tubes.
Hello Kathleen,
I have said this here before. I agree the issue needs to be discussed; and I agree that for sane, rational people, anti-Israel doesn’t equal anti-Semitism. But there are plenty of people in the world for whom they ARE the same thing, and a lot of them live in the middle east. So I don’t think the anti-semitism issue should be glibly dismissed — and perhaps that is why the subject makes so many people uncomfortable.
There is something about your position that I don’t understand, and so I am asking sincerely: How do the Israelis dictate policy to the US…..when they are, in reality, totally dependent on us?
oddmommy @ 224
The anti Palestinian Aid bills just recently pushed by Rep. Ros-Lehtinen in Fl and Rep. Lantos of Calif. This legislation pushed by these reps and the A*P*C lobby punished the Palestinians for the fair (Carter and other groups observed the latest election) election of Hamas.
If any other nation were building a wall on confiscated lands our reps would be going wild. If any other nation had sold highly classified weapons technology as Israel did to China and Russia, our reps would have gone mad, and one would have read about this endlessly in the press.
[Edited by Mod. Please take note]
Bob at 221. It is extremely discouraging that our reps are not willing to approach the impeachment issue. Hagel has been willing to bring it up.
Phil @ 224
[Geek Alert]: The website we are using is not technically a “chat” but a “blog,” a special form of “threaded bulletin-board-system (BBS).” The only way you know about what anyone’s said after your most recent post is to Refresh the browser screen.
“Instant Messaging (IMing)” (quite common these days) and “Gabbly” (among many other variants) are what’s known as “chats.” You can type something into your chat window, possibly more than a line’s worth, but the instant you press ENTER, that line of text appears in a window seen by other participants.
FWIW, it was the nasty comments in IM sessions that Congressman Mark Foley wrote, that done him in. [/Geek Alert] :)
hmmm. I don’t actually MIND being ignored, but it seems to me that those who demand discussion ought to be willing to engage in it.
Old mommy I submitted a comment, was not posted. HMMMM I will try again. Here goes
The latest evidence of the lobby is Rep Ros Lehtinens( Fl) and Rep. Lantos (calif) efforts and success to cut off aid to the Palestinians after the election. These Anti-Palestinian aid bills were passed. This was passed to punish the Palestinians for voting for Hamas in a fair election.
Why was it that it was discovered that Israel had been pushing the sale of military technology to both China and Russia are mainstream news barely covered this issue. If this had been any other nation there would have been a riot in congress.
Israel did finally have their hands slapped for undermining U.S. National Security.
Another example is our congress unwillingness to criticize Israels continued building of a wall on Palestinian land. If Israel wants to build a wall build it on the 67 Internationally recognized border.
If any other nation had the massive stockpiles of nuclear, biological and chemical weapons that go unchecked as Israels do and that nation continued to expect sizable economic support from the U.s. there would be outrage.
all one needs to do to follow the influence of the lobby is to go to to the A*P*C website which I have done and follow what they are demanding and how fast legislation is passed that they have demanded.
[* Edited by Mod. Please take note]
oddmommy @ 230
I have now submitted two comments I hope they make it they were both reasonable responses
Kathleen @ 227
Here it is. Not sure why I should take note!
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/n…..E_ID=49009
OldMommy another article, to prove my point.
http://www.zoa.org/2006/03/zoa_strongly_su_3.htm
oddmommy @ 229
Hello — if it is interaction with Rep. Nadler you were interested in, his real-world schedule required him to stop blogging with the rest of us quite awhile ago (See #177). Since then, this thread has had some post-discussion but for the most part, as in most blogs, it has become inactive as the “crowd” moves on to later thread(s). HTH.
Kathleen,
A*P*C without asterisks sends your comments to moderation because of search engines and past problems. So they ask us to use the asterisks to cut down on trolling.
Appreciate the responses Kathleen….but with due respect I don’t see how this does prove your point. The articles demonstrate that there actually WAS vigorous debate and discussion about the anti-Hamas (to use shorthand) measure. And Hamas IS a terrorist organization, freely elected or not. If my tax dollars shouldn’t go to Israeli defense, why should they go to suicide bombers?
It’s a complex and tragic situation. I am not an Israel apologist but I also don’t believe that it deserves to be blindly demonized. It is as big as New Jersey. Suppose you lived in New Jersey and everyone in New York, Pennsylvania, Delaware, and beyond hated you and wanted to kill you? And there’s a psycho governor next door who not only wants to obliterate you from the planet but also convenes international conferences to deny the murder of 6 million of your grandparents only 60 years ago?
Which is why Israel formed in the first place….and on a sort of emotional gut level, I do feel that Israel’s existence is justified by the Holocaust, if nothing else.
oddmommy @ 238
Old mommy I do not believe everyone in the middle east wants to kill or injure Jews. I believe you are the one demonizing the diverse thinking in the middle east about the P/I issue.
I have personally been verbally attacked by a Rabbi and his congregation at a Palestinian conference that took place at Ohio State University in Columbus Ohio. As people were approaching the building where the conference was being held, a Rabbi stood out in front (roped off) with a megaphone yelling at every single person who went in calling them “murderers”. When I went over to the Rabbi and asked him to come in and discuss the issues, he picked up his megaphone and began calling me a “murderer”. Thank goodness T.V. cameras were there to document the exchange. Later after the conference I spoke with 7 Jewish students who attended Ohio State when I asked them how the situation should be dealt with. Every single one of them responded, “bus all of the Palestinians off to Jordan, or put them in camps”. I heard this with my very own ears.
Also at Ohio University in Athens Ohio a conference was held on the I/P issue several years ago. Three Jewish professors kept ARt Gish a member of the Christian Peace Maker team who has been to Israel 14 times and has lived with Palestinians and stood in the path of bulldozers knocking over Palestinian homes and businesses off of the panel discussion. These radical responses do not promote honest and healthy dialogue
There are radicals on both sides of this issue. I consider some of the actions of A*I*P*A*C and these radical Jews counterproductive to real solutions. I have witnessed some of this radical behaviour with my own eyes and ears.
Later Odd Mommy….Have to get some work done. appreciate the honest and respectful dialogue.
Support Israel based on the 67 borders! Support a Palestinian state! Peace to both!
dmg @ 129
———————–
congressman,
i appreciate your candor and your sense of what is pragmatically possible in washington; surely you’re right in assessing that the timeline is too compressed for most legislators to seek impeachment proceedings for this lawless administration.
BUT STILL…
there is no question that this administration has committed impeachable offenses, and has done so brazenly, to keep the protectors of the constitution and our democracy back on their heels.
at the very least, there should b some effort to catalogue all the very many ways this administration has defied the rule of law in this country, to the betterment of the few at the expense of the many. history will honor those who try to bring these criminals before some bar of justice. whether that’s in a formal prosecution, or more likely in the public arena of the congressional chambers, it should be done.
———————-
RevDeb @ 137
Agree. The other issue I see here is that if the Clinton impeachment is going to be seen as the one people remember, that effectively takes it out of the tool kit for which it was originally meant to be used. There can be no doubt that this administration has committed high crimes and misdemeanors. If we are no longer able to pursue justice at the highest level, then we might as well pack it in.
Whether or not there is time for this process to play out, it must be used or it will never be able to be used again. That’s just my humble opinion.
And welcome to the Lake. You have done extraordinary work on behalf of the country, Rep. Nadler. I can understand why you are backing Hillary, but I am sorry to hear it. I don’t think she’s the best we have got and another Clinton in the WH who has the backing of the DLC and Rupert Murdoch does not bode well.
————————
Greg L. @
171
Strongly agree with RevDeb here. Congressman, regardless of the timing, there must be consequences for the illegal actions of those in the Bush Adminstration. If you seek confirmation that they fear legal actions, simply look at the actions of their polital leader Rove, who went before Prosecutor Fitzgerald FIVE times, in order to avoid being charged.
Without any deterrent, they’ll keep popping up in later administrations, covered in a fine, respectable veneer, from time spent in some impressive sounding think tank, only to start all over again. (Wolfie, Rummy, Feith, et al.)
———————
I agree!!!
But if we postpone real accountability until after November 2008, then people would be saying that we should let bygones be bygones, and will trivialize accountability merely as “gotcha” politics. Accountability needs to begin NOW!
As for those nervous nellies who don’t think we have the votes in the Senate to impeach, they are counting on all Republicans to vote “no”. I am confident that well-drawn articles of impeachment, and coverage of the hearings involved in impeachment would, like during Watergate, build a case that would get some Republican votes. After all, we only need to ask them if they really want Democratic presidents to rule with the powers Bush & Cheney have appropriated for the President.
Congressional Democrats should also remember that they control the clock in House impeachment hearings: There is no limitation on debate that I know of, so the hearings could continue until the articles of impeachment can be built on rock solid foundations.
If you’re not for impeachment now, I wonder about your commitment to our Constitutional Democracy. Our founding fathers put impeachment in the Constitution for a reason, and if we don’t use it when that reason arises, I’m afraid that we’re heading down the road that Hitler took Germany in the years before WW II.
Cheney-Rove-Bush democracy is not really democracy at all; its a plutocracy (See Kevin Philip’s book Wealth and Democracy). And a plutocracy led by Democrats is only marginally better than a plutocracy led by Republicans.
Bob in HI
I posted four more articles together about the I/P issue not sure where they went? Later
Mary4 @
176
YES!! AMEN!!!
Bob in HI
Kathleen @ 240
Roger that.
Appreciate the dialogue too….adios for now.
Hello moderator did you get the four articles that I posted about the I lobby? One was a link to the Mearsheimer/Walt paper? Wonder where those went?
[Mod Note; Do you mean the ones at 234 and 235?]
Kathleen,
Did you try refreshing the whole page, not just the comments?
conniptionfit @
212
But that’s what impeachment is designed to do– gather evidence!!! The House gathers the evidence, the Senate does the trial. The Libby Trial, the Waxman hearings, the Leahy hearings, and hopefully soon the Conyers hearings are currently gathering evidence, but don’t forget that half a dozen books have already been written compiling the evidence against Bush & Cheney! Why not appoint a Select Committee of the House, with subpoena power, to rehearse the evidence in those books to rally public opinion?
That would be important, but impeachment now is even more important. Who knows what other evil schemes Cheney-Rove-Bush have in mind to implement in the next two years?
Bob in HI
Sorry I missed this!
Rep. Nadler, if you’re still reading, check out http://ministryoflove.wordpress.com to learn more about our ongoing protest of the Military Commissions Act.
Regards,
O’Brien
Boston1775 @ 131
After he was tried and convicted of a felony and it was turned over on appeal. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised by Republics who choose heros that subvert the laws of the US and lie to Congress about it.
Debbie Wasserman-Schultz was not elected to Congress until 2004, so you probably did not watch her vote for the AUMF in Iraq in 2002. It’s those pesky little details that just kill you, dude.
Rep Nadler, as the author and sponsor of the Permanent Partners Immigration Bill, do you believe there is any chance of including it as part of a new try at a comprehensive immigration reform?
As one half of a long distance, long term gay couple I’ve waited for the Democrats to take charge and hopfully push this along. What do you think the chances are? It would be good to see some real progress for gay americans rather than more talk about what will be done someday.
Good luck and thanks for your efforts!
I think highly of Nadler, but I wish he would apologize for those insinuations he made that we Lamont supporters were motivated by anti-Semitism.