
(Photo from Reuters via The Age.)
By now we have come to expect our President to present a dishonest defense of his Iraq occupation and escalation. He will blame everyone but himself for his policy disaster, while showing no willingness to compromise to avoid a confrontation and accept the growing public sentiment that our occupation should end. And it’s pretty much settled that his staunchest supporters will destroy their own credibility and shamelessly misuse the military to further the charade that progress is occuring even as affected eye witnesses contradict it.
Yet even those who value the truth and are not afraid to say it may nevertheless shrink from reaching the obvious conclusion. Retired Army General Barry McCaffrey teaches at West Point and appears regularly on NBC and cable networks news as a respected military analyst. In Wednesday’s LA Times, McCaffrey’s op-ed, No Choice: Stay the course in Iraq, looks deep into the abyss but argues that no matter how bad conditions are in Iraq, we have no choice but to remain in Iraq and “support the U.S. leadership team in Iraq for this one last effort to succeed.” To support his conclusion, McCaffrey marshals the arguments and evidence on each side. Here first are his arguments for staying [with my comments in brackets], comprising what McCaffery calls “the basis for hope.”
– Failure in Iraq at this point could generate a regional war among Iraq’s neighbors that would imperil U.S. interests for a decade or more. [Perhaps, but so will an indefinite, bloody US occupation of a country in the heart of the ME.]
–Petraeus’ strategy is sound, and the situation is not hopeless. [But keep reading.]
– U.S. troops continue to show determination, discipline and courage. [Okay, but keep reading; we're abusing the Army.]
– We will have organized 370,000 members of the Iraqi police and army, in 120 battalions, by the end of the year. [Yes, but they can't/wont' move without our transporting/covering them; if left alone they don't show up to fight and don't fight against their own sects, but may brutalize members of the other sects; and if these guys were doing so well, why are we still needed?]
–The Maliki government has finally gotten its nerve and allowed joint operations by its police and U.S. special operations forces to arrest Sadr militia members in Baghdad. [True, but the militias have simply gone underground or moved outside the Baghdad area.]
– Petraeus has placed more than 50 Iraqi/U.S. police and army strong points throughout the city. [Okay, but the militias and death squads have gone elsewhere and continue to murder Iraqis outside Baghdad, and now the bombings and killings in Baghdad and elsewhere return the moment we leave and are now worse than before.]
– The murder rate has plummeted in response. [If true, only for Shia on Sunni murders in Baghdad, but murders have increased elsewhere, according to French sources.]
– The Sunni tribes in Anbar province have turned on the foreign fighters. [If we have so many friends there, why are so many US casualties still occurring in Anbar and other Sunni areas?]
That’s it. That’s the “basis of hope.” On the other side, McCaffrey lists the following negatives:
Iraq is being ripped apart by a low-grade civil war compounded by a dysfunctional, Shiite-dominated government. As many as 3,000 Iraqis are being killed or kidnapped a month, and American forces have suffered more than 27,000 killed and wounded.
Our troops face thousands of attacks each month from Sunni and Shiite Arabs employing improvised explosive devices (more than 2,900 a month), snipers, rocket and mortar fire, mines and, recently, suicide truck bombings rigged to release noxious chlorine gas. The “burn rate” on the Iraq war is $9 billion a month. The Iraqis are in despair. Three million are refugees or have fled the country. The ill-equipped Iraqi police and army suffered 49,000 casualties in the last 14 months. There is no security in most of the country under the government of Prime Minister Nouri Maliki.
The threat we face is huge. More than 100,000 armed militia members and insurgents confront central authorities. A handful of foreign fighters (about 500) and a couple of thousand Al-Qaeda-in-Iraq extremists provoke sectarian violence through murderous attacks on the innocent civilian Shiite population and their mosques. This provokes a response of brutality and ethnic cleansing against the vulnerable Sunni civilian population.
U.S. forces have arrested more than 120,000 suspects and hold more than 27,000 as detainees. We have killed about 20,000 of these armed fighters. However, the armed struggle shows few signs of disruption.
Iraq’s neighbors, with the exception of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, have intensified the civil war as an extension of their own larger Shiite-Sunni conflict for power — or as a reaction to the presence of a foreign presence in Iraq. This war is primarily an internal struggle, with the preponderance of the leadership, fighters, money and armaments generated inside Iraq.
The American people have walked away from support of this war. The Army is beginning to show signs of great strain. Many units are now on their third combat tour, and the tours are being routinely extended. Recruiting standards are being lowered. Our equipment is shot. By the beginning of the coming year, we will be forced to downsize our deployment to Iraq or the Army will begin to unravel.
Only through the success of reconciliation talks can the bitter civil strife be moderated. We are running out of time. . . .The United States is now at a crossroads. We are in a position of strategic peril.
That’s quite a sobering assessment. One wonders how McCaffrey can accept all of that and still arrive at this conclusion:
We will know by the end of the summer if Petraeus’ strategy is going to prompt an adequate political response from the Iraqis. . . . [even though there is nothing to link the evidence he cites nor the US strategy with this desired outcome.]
We need to support the U.S. leadership team in Iraq for this one last effort to succeed.
It seems that even comparatively credible, realistic military analysts cannot bring themselves to accept the painful conclusion that sometimes it’s better to just back away from an unmitigated distater, and rethink what we’re doing, than to continue trying to fix it with the same approaches that failed before.
If there is another approach, it’s impllcit in the Democratic funding bills, which fully fund the escalation strategy for about a year — a period the general claims is sufficient to determine whether it’s succeeding or not. But the bills also address the deteriorating conditions of the Army, while putting increased pressure on the Iraqis to make the political accommodations that McCaffrey says are essential. And if that doesn’t work, we’re out.
It’s that bottom line that McCaffrey can’t reach, even though it flows directly from his own analysis. He promises this is the “last effort.” We’ll know about progress by “end of the summer,” he says. I’m counting on Andrea Mitchell to remind us when that time is up.
There’s been a lot of discussion about how the Democrats should respond to the President’s recalcitrance. Unlike Obama, whom some have criticized for apparently throwing in the towel on the Bush veto threat, Russ Feingold shows how to respond, in this interview on NPR. [UPDATE: C&L also has the video of Feingold on Countdown last night.] Pretty easy to pick out the real leaders, isn’t it? This response also works.
Related posts:





Spotlight








Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search

Fitz!
I haven’t had a zed in a long long time, and I even stopped to red the post first!
Sucks, don’t it?
I feel for the troops and their families… and by extension for all of us.
There’s a hot griddle in hell for Bush and Cheney.
So did I, LHP, grin.
looseheadprop shoots!
She scores!
G’morning scarecrow.
Quickie “topy cop”:
One wonders how
McCaffrey’sMcCaffrey can accept all of thatGood mornin’ all,
That picture personifies the term fuckwit(s).
Now back to read the post.
McCaffery has been and always will be a paid mouthpiece for the Bush misadministration. He longs for the days of yore when the military, of which he was a huge part, stormed beaches, infiltrated the enemy or simply carpet-bombed the shit out of a geographical area. Afterward, he and his ilk would smile at each other, noddingly approve of the overwhelming success of the operation, exit their secured viewing location and then go to the Officer’s Club for celebratory drinks. Barry et al, in case you haven’t been notified yet, your antiquated warfare models are no longer effective. Step aside old man and STFU!
Scarecrow – I herald all your posts!
Prairie Sunshine @
6
Thanks. It’s fixed.
Good morning everyone. Cold, windy, rainy in Boston. Last throes of winter.
The Feingold interview is excellent; he wouldn’t let the interviewer shift the blame back on Democrats.
McCaffrey is a fucking arshole as I said
on a previous post.
He is an ex-General, talks out of both sides of
his mouth, and can spin a story.
He talks with bluster and is an idiot…
We CANNOT win this war. End of story.
Jack
How about, Bush got us into the most screwed up war ever for no real reason that is costing us billions more than he said it would and is filling the coffers of corporations with close ties to Bush. At worst, this is seriously criminal – at best, seriously incompitent. But whichever it is, why should we listen to anything this guy has to say, or allow any policy he directs to go unchecked? He’s a total disaster! Following him anywhere just leads to more disaster!
IMPEACHMENT IS THE ONLY ANSWER!
Good morning.
These people define “success” as “not failing” and “victory” as “not losing.” It would be hilarious if not for the enormous cost.
All McCaffrey is doing is articulating the Republican-as-distinct-from-Bush talking point: Due to enormous public and political pressure, we’ve arbitrarily decided on…uh…August (yeah, that’s the ticket) to see if this works before we give up on the Codpiece. That will give us sufficient time to appear independent for the upcoming campaign.
How many kids are going to die for this?
my response
Went to an interesting meeting last night. U.S. Rep. John Kline had his first town hall mtg. in his seven years in office. SO much to say about that event, with its carefully planted questioners and commenters.
But what it illustrated best was the deep, deep division(s) between and among Americans. It was palpable, even when no one was speaking. So. Much. Tension.
Generally folks were fairly well-behaved, but as the two hours wound down, we were closer to eruptions and angry outbursts, and several times, Kline’s famous short fuse got lit but extinguished.
My first chance to see “the enemy” up close and personal. I am not encouraged. Party line, party line, party line. Hut, two, three, four.
Mornin’ all.
BTW Trex, the caption you put with the picture of Quail? pricelss.
So was the quote from the article
George Bush=Dan Quail in cowboy boots.
A keeper
kdy22 — I picked McCaffrey because his assessments are rarely rose-colored. Note that he doesn’t say, “and losing is so unthinkable that if this doesn’t work, we have to keep doing the same thing, no matter what the cost.”
OT…Students PELT Miss Piggy Rover at Am. University, after Rover gives a speech to college ReTHUGlicans……..I see the citizens at large are now on to Miss Piggy and lashing out…..GOOD ON THEM!
http://www.rawstory.com/showar…..dlineclick
This reminds me of Einstein’s definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. There’s no question that we ‘broke it’ (as Colonel Powell previously stated), but continuing occupation/combat isn’t remotely ‘fixing it’. There is no doubt that we will be reaping the consequences of this debacle for years (if not decades) to come, but better that we change course now and face these challenges rather than later. Our government is throwing our hard earned tax dollars away and that of our children and grandchildren. When this is all said and done, history will not look kindly upon our generation.
How do you lose an occupation?
tommy yum @ 12
It’s kinda like criminal defense lawyer syndrome. As long as you guy in not actually in jail, it counts as a win.
so mistrial=win
hung jury=win
out on bail while case on appeal=win
Ken Lay dies while out on bail pending appeal=total victory because he will never see the inside of a jail cell now
That’s how they see the war. Keep it going until there is a Dem in the WH so that Dem Presidnet can “lose” the war
Feingold was his usual serious thoughtful self on Olbermann last night. He pointed out that when he first called for a timeline, he was derided. Now he has support, and is keeping the pressure on.
Obama sounds great but lacks gravitas when it comes to tough issues. Like Hillary, he seems to be polling, then deciding what he believes. Watching an Edwards rally in NH on CSPAN, the biggest applause line was when he told people that he was not going to speak in generalities, but was going to stand up for what he believed in, and say what he would do as president. I am not an Edwards supporter, but he really hit a chord with me, too.
The most depressing thing in this post is the thought that our leaders are going along with something they do not believe in out of “respect for the generals.” Give me a break. Petraeus is there because his predecessors thought the current strategy would not work and said so. If they had any respect for the generals, they would listen to them.
Scarecrow @ 16
But give him a chance, as we draw closer, he wlll change his mind… he is a weasel.
I loathe McCaffrey because he is a model of
what’s wrong with our military elite…
They love war….
Peace now.
Jack
Bush has been so cynical lately it’s even sicker than usual. Screaming about Pelosi going to Syria when he had nothing to say about the Repugs going there. Saying that Congress is slacking on their Easter break when he was steps away from his own Easter break. Claiming that when he vetoes the spending bill for Iraq, it will be Congress that cut off the funds. Claiming that the spending bill will make the troops have longer tours of duty, after he’s fought this war using the longest tours of duty ever.
It’s all Bushit doublespeak.
tommy yum @
12
Yes, the willingness to experiment with other people’s lives is appalling. But that is what McCaffrey is defending. I wanted to hold up that mirror to the MSM, because he represents so well their view of an “expert.”
GWB at yesterdays’s presser:
“Victory in Iraq cannot be gained militarily – why is preciesly why I sent in more troops!”
(sorry for the paraphrase – but I was stunned by teh stupid)
As Upton Sinclair put it: “It’s difficult for them to see whose paycheck depends on not seeing.”
The outcome of this war has been inevitable (and predicted) since long before it began. It all follows from the demographics: 60% Shiite, 20% Sunni, and 20% Kurd. By ballots, the Shiites will dominate the country. They will ally themselves with their fellow Shiites in Iran. And they will heap punitive payback on the Sunnis. That will be the outcome whether we stay or leave.
The CIA and State Department went through all of this in late 1990 during the run-up to Desert Storm. Because of their analysis President George H.W. Bush decided not to topple Saddam Hussein and wrote in 1998:
The only thing we are fighting for now is GWB’s vanity. And General McCaffery knows that. But his paycheck depends on not admitting that he knows.
Logically, McCaffrey should not be credited as a respected military analyst if his final conclusion remains “stay the course”.
Why should we even be drawn into these arguments of success or failure in Iraq? BUSH GOT US IN THERE. THIS IS ALL HIS FAULT! When he thought that the mission was accomplished, he had no problem trying to take all the credit for this stupid war. And I don’t think too many people think that this was anyone else’s war but his.
These arguments about, we’re in there now, what are we going to do, would be fine if it wasn’t coming from Bush or his lackies! You can’t kill someone and then say, well, wishing it didn’t happen isn’t going to change anything, what should we do now. You go to jail, and then the family and friends of the murdered person has to mourn and get on with their lives. There can’t be any reasonable dialog while Bush is supposedly running the country.
ding! — ring that bell!
perfectly put, georgesimian.
now, here is my very humble video mash-up
(only 1:38 long, to boot!) of the bush-
cheney-rove-war-is-good, war-is-great machine. . .
Bush is running the country…into the ground.
Accepting Defeat was always going to be a tough slog for the United States public, who aren’t used to it. I’m actually encouraged by the degree to which the American public has accepted that defeat. They are ahead of the elite on this point, who are still locked into a kind of Cold War manicheism with respect to our place in the Middle East. Defeat is unthinkable to our ‘respectable’ leaders. Too bad. They ought to think some more about it, because it’s going to happen, and it’s always better to be prepared than unprepared for things that have to happen, like death and taxes.
http://www.capitalnews.org/
Fight the freepers. Go to the website and vote your approval for Speaker Pelosi’s trip. The freepers are way ahead.
jayt @ 26
Yep. I think that’s in the transcript.
barbara @ 14
Thanks for blogging it, Barbara. Sounds like they’re working the crowd alright.
Osama Bin Laden and Mahmoud Abadinejad are big fans of the surge. It gives them comfort and aids them in rallying support. In fact, GWB and OBL are the best things that ever happened to each other.
“I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever.”
— Thomas Jefferson
[i’m pretty agnostic, but somehow scarecrow’s post brought this quote to mind]
biff diggerence @ 28
Scarecrow, I believe you chose a fairly respectable (ALMOST unbiased) observer in McCaffrey. He gives both sides and, while I believe his conclusion is seriously flawed, he seems to know “the score.” Certainly, his timeline for success is no worse than either house of Congress, i.e. the end of the summer. The truth will be seen if he changes his mind come, say, July or August when, there is no change in the situation. But I wouldn’t characterize his position as “stay the course.” Or so I see it…
-MS
Knut Wicksell @ 32
Perhaps the American public noticed that our defeat in Viet Nam did nothing to hurt U.S. global interests. Again, we had nothing at stake except vanity, and spilled a lot of blood and treasure trying to achieve “peace with honor.” And, indeed, Nixon was able to keep the war going until he was out of office and congress pulled the plug.
On the NPR interview and the news coverage, it is amazing that Bush can contemptuously dismiss the role of Congress in governing this country, and have the media respond by saying to the Democrats “Aren’t you being stubborn?” Feingold was great, as always, but why does the media continue to insist that Bush has a defensible position here?
He’s demanded a bill with no strings. There’s no room for compromise there. He’s, idiotically, promised to veto anything that interferes with the decider’s absolute rule. All this business about hurting the troops is going to backfire on him. As Feingold points out, this bill fully funds the occupation.
The Feingold-Reid bill represents sound strategy. It sends Bush the clear message that the bill that’ll be on his desk will be the least restrictive bill he’s gonna get. He’d better cave on this bill, or he’ll end up either overridden, or forced to begin withdrawal.
tommy yum @ 12
And how many Iraqis?
Hey guys-
Did you see the WSJ op ed today?
I don’t understand what they are inferring.
Fitzgerald’s Cover-Up
Any insight would be appreciated. (since all the great Fitz minds are here)
Michael in Park Slope @ 38
McCaffrey uses the terms “stay the course.”
“I have not come to praise Caesar . . .” McCaffery was interesting to me because of how he is perceived by the networks who use him as an expert. I agree he’s put a timeline on himself. We should be making a list of those who have done so. Atrios is skeptical they’ll stick to it.
would love to see some of McCaffrey’s quotes arrayed alongside share price of his portfolio on that day – wonder if a pattern would emerge ?
Paddy @ 42
Probably keeping his cards close to his vest for “Fitz II.”
-MS
Paddy @ 42
I read that too. I guess they feel that any hint of secrecy discredits him, somehow. But they love Bush and Cheney, who hide behind the secrets acts at every opportunity. They’re always coming up with new ways to distract and disinform.
I’m a little suspect of the idea that the WSJ editorial page is totally separate from the news, which, so the argument goes, is unbiased and good. I don’t buy it.
Iran’s pres just “granted amnesty to the British sailors” – CNN
Knut Wicksell @ 32
Knut Wicksell @ 32
Defeat? What is winning in this situation? From the point of view of the Bush Criminal Enterprise, they have and are winning. The price of oil has risen. The cronies corporations to service the war have made obscene amounts of money for obscene acts and the obscene oil contracts between the corporations and the “Iraqi government” have been inked.
…
what is with the questions from NPR?
talk about the WH talking points.
Russ is on message and gettin’ after it
every time all the time.
nice.
..
On MacCaffery’s cognitive dissonance, he’s actually right.
A US withdrawal would leave Iraq without a national defense–no air, no armor, no logistical capability, a fractured internal security force and continuing civil conflict.
But remaining in Iraq doesn’t fix any of those problems.
Any course of action is catastrophic–and it turns people who are trying to actually figure out what to do into gibbering idiots.
Take Kissinger, yesterday. He said the US cannot win, in the sense of achieving a militarily decisive result. But the US will nonetheless have to remain in theatre into the indefinite future. Take Obama and Edwards. They don’t say it outright, but their positions would entail the presence of at least 50,000 troops in Iraq, just as Clinton’s does.
Now take Phoenix Woman’s response to that idea–50,000 isn’t enough. I think she’s right. But the US doesn’t have the capability to retain these force levels indefinitely without a draft. And nobody wants a draft.
Long story short, we’re fucked. And our president is a moron in denial. So it’s just gonna get worse.
The bottom line on Iraq is this:
IF BUSH DIDN’T WANT US TO FAIL IN IRAQ, HE SHOULD HAVE DONE A BETTER JOB! HE IS THE ONE WHO FAILED US.
The idea that now, after four years of giving him everything he wants, that somehow the Democrats are to blame for losing this war is absurd. He should have never invaded Iraq, but if he was going to do it, he should have at least had a plan. He didn’t. He displayed incompetence at every turn. He mismanaged the reconstruction effort to the highest degree. His policies have been a total failure.
wellstoner @ 49
That’s exactly how it seemed to me; talking point questions, great responses.
jayt @
47
Iranian leader pardons detained Britons
Scarecrow @ 43
A month or so ago, General Patraeus was quoted as saying that the surge had an one-in-four chance of success and that it would take six months to know whether it would succeed. He didn’t sound like he was a big fan of his assignment.
Paddy @ 42
Sounds like Libby’s team wants the info for their appeal.
Bay State Librul @ 23
I’ve met a handful of people in the Army who after experiencing war actually love it. When I was in Bosnia in 96 the chief of USAEUR chaplains was visiting Camp Kime. He was a grizzled old colonel who had been an infantry officer in vietnam, combat infantry badge the whole nine yards. I and a handful of other soldiers got to eat breakfast with him. I don’t recall how we got on the subject but one of the young captains who had been in Somalia said being shot at is kind of exhilirating. The colonel said “Captain that’s because you haven’t been shot at enough.” And that is the attitude of people who have really experienced war.
McCafferey’s thinking doesn’t reflect a love of war it reflects the conventional mind set of senior military officers. These guys are all very smart, they wouldn’t have gotten where they are if they weren’t but not a one is an original thinker. Original thinkers tend to top out at colonel. Their whole lives as adults have been focused on folowing orders and “winning.” The idea of not “winning” whatever that means is a foriegn to them as not breathing. He says “Stay the course” not because he loves war but because his whole world view lets him see nothing else.
Paddy @ 42
Fertilizer.
The stuff under seal was al seen by the courts. If the judges didn’t think it should have been sealed, they would not have placed it under seal. judges have the right to review GJ testimony, so if the WSJ is suggesting that PatFitz cherry picked bits and pieces from the GJ record to mislead the courts, then the WSJ must think he is a nincupoop (sp?) who would risk cescure by the court and possible disbarrment if he got caught doing that and in a set of circumstances where it would be highly likely he would get caught.
Oh, and and Pt didn’t put anything under seal — the judges did. And the 8 pages of Judge Tatel’s decision that are under seal?
Judge Tatel did that on his own.
That was just a slime. Pure simple slime. And not even high quality slime. It’s like a Vicky T slime job, so obviously untrue you gotta wonder what were they thinking?
So, somebody at h WH is still jonesing to know what has been redacted?
That’s intriguing. Somebody thinks there is an Act 2. I wonder why?
Bay State Librul @ 22
“Only through the success of reconciliation talks can the bitter civil strife be moderated. We are running out of time. . . .The United States is now at a crossroads. We are in a position of strategic peril.”
This is a very telling statement from McCaffrey. For ardent military people such, reconciliation talks are very last optionMichael in Park Slope @ 38
I believe McCaffrey is able to contemplate the possiblity of defeat in Iraq. His acceptance of defeat, however, remains to be seen. I don’t think he will ever admit it even when it is staring him the face. When the military rewires enlistees, the concept of defeat is excluded.
sunshine @ 54
This sounds like a fishing expedition to find out what Fitz has on Cheney and others who may be liable in Wilson’s civil suit. The WSJ editorial page has never been interested in the truth of the Plame outing.
Talking about timelines, if Bush doesn’t want timelines, what DOES he want? Indefinite and infinite financing of 100 million dollars a day? With no tax increase, draft or any other feasable way of sustaining this war, eventually the money is going to run out. Imagine what that money could be spent on!
IANAL but I thought appeals go on the record & no new material can be intorduced?
McCaffrey uses the terms “stay the course.”
“I have not come to praise Caesar . . .” McCaffery was interesting to me because of how he is perceived by the networks who use him as an expert. I agree he’s put a timeline on himself. We should be making a list of those who have done so. Atrios is skeptical they’ll stick to it.
I didn’t for a moment think you’d come to “praise Caesar.” But one’s credibility soars if the “other side” is cited (as you did), and you gotta admit that as far as the other side goes, this guy (full disclosure: previously unknown to me) is fairly leftist, no? I Agree that we must watch these guys.
-MS
SOP for WSJ editorials. They make me puke so I seldom read them, but I’ve never read on on economics that came close to reality. Creates stuff out of whole cloth.
jayt @ 47
Not surprised, figured it was a bartering tool.
sunshine says:
April 4th, 2007 at 6:17 am
Paddy @ 42
Hey guys-
Did you see the WSJ op ed today?
I don’t understand what they are inferring.
Fitzgerald’s Cover-Up
It’s time to hold the special prosecutor accountable.
Wednesday, April 4, 2007 12:01 a.m.
For a prosecutor who claims to be a truth-seeker, Patrick Fitzgerald sure can be secretive. Even now that the Scooter Libby trial is over and his “leak” investigation is all but closed, the unaccountable special counsel wants to keep his arguments for creating a Constitutional showdown over reporters and their sources under lock and key.
Any insight would be appreciated. (since all the great Fitz minds are here)
Sounds like Libby’s team wants the info for their appeal.
Paddy @ 42
Judith Miller testified to the fact that Scooter Libby leaked classified information (Mrs. Wilson’s affiliation with the CIA) and some allegedly insta-declassified information (parts of the NIE). In preparing a case, prosecutors need to know these things. There no secret or mystery except in the self-induced confusion of the right-wing pundits.
eCAHNomics @ 61
Yeah except on appeal you can also attack the indictment itself. So, you would certainly beinterested in any GJ abuses. Not that there are likley to be any to be found in this record.
eCAHNomics @ 63
However, (and this is so shallow) I LOVE that pen and ink illustration of Pat that they always use. I think it is a wonderful rendering of him. If they had any class at all, they would frame the original drawing and send it to him as a keepsake.
o/t
just got back from Gillard’s place – he is making some progress towards recovery
his blogging partner Jen has the latest
Jen’s Progress Report
prayers and good wishes are appreciated
WSJ makes me sick. Sometimes I read it when I feel too good and need something to ruin my day and make me grind my teeth. I still can’t get the headline “Thank You for Spying on US” out of my head. What a bunch of sickos.
#17
Thank you for this info! AWESOME, TOTALLY AWESOME! That fat pig is getting what he deserves. May it happen to him regularly. Why it hasn’t happened sooner is beyond me. Even Bill Kristol has gotten pie in the face.
I can’t remember if it was Tweety or Timmeh who said that Joe Average wouldn’t know Rove if he looked them in the face. Apparently, people now know who the man behind the curtains is!
sunshine says:
April 4th, 2007 at 6:17 am
Paddy @ 42
Hey guys-
Did you see the WSJ op ed today?
I don’t understand what they are inferring.
Fitzgerald’s Cover-Up
It’s time to hold the special prosecutor accountable.
Wednesday, April 4, 2007 12:01 a.m.
For a prosecutor who claims to be a truth-seeker, Patrick Fitzgerald sure can be secretive. Even now that the Scooter Libby trial is over and his “leak” investigation is all but closed, the unaccountable special counsel wants to keep his arguments for creating a Constitutional showdown over reporters and their sources under lock and key.
Any insight would be appreciated. (since all the great Fitz minds are here)
Sounds like Libby’s team wants the info for their appeal. . . .
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ack at 65
could not catch in edits — here is
what i WANTED to post in response:
the journal’s opinion page is simply
tryin to jaw-bone its way around rule 6(e),
and the secrecy of grand juries — it DOES
have an interest in newsworthy cases, and
it wants to be able to report them, but
branzburg v. hayes stands in the journal’s
way — among other precedents. . .
from branzburg [forgive the ALLCAP]:
“. . .THE FIRST AMENDMENT DOES NOT RELIEVE A NEWSPAPER REPORTER OF THE OF
THE OBLIGATION THAT ALL CITIZENS HAVE TO RESPOND TO A GRAND JURY
SUBPOENA AND ANSWER QUESTIONS RELEVANT TO A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION, AND
THEREFORE THE AMENDMENT DOES NOT AFFORD HIM A CONSTITUTIONAL
TESTIMONIAL PRIVILEGE FOR AN AGREEMENT HE MAKES TO CONCEAL FACTS
RELEVANT TO A GRAND JURY’S INVESTIGATION OF A CRIME OR TO CONCEAL THE
CRIMINAL CONDUCT OF HIS SOURCE OR EVIDENCE THEREOF. . .”
fitz MAY be watching the machinations
of rove — including rove’s taunt at the
correspondents’ dinner last week — and
biding his time. . .
Paddy @ 42
The stuff that’s still under seal relates to Rove, I believe, which is why it’s still under seal–Rove hasn’t been charged with anything. My take on this is that it’s Babs Comstock trying to do something, anything, that will take the spotlight off of Libby prior to his sentencing.
Thanks, scarecrow — great read. :)
Am sitting here with the HDTV on “Sunrise Earth” from the Discovery channel. This morning’s is the Everglades waking up — and our kitty is mesmerized by all of the birds. I’m having as much fun watching her as I am watching the show. The Peanut has been playing “spot the alligator” this morning. Whoever thought of doing this show in HD is a genius, and I just needed to say that.
frank probst @ 73
ding!
exactly.
Here’s what I don’t get. They want us to stay and keep doing what we are doing. But since progress is slow or non existent, it could be years until we leave. So do we keep borrowing money, billions, to keep this up, and do we keep those in the military there, like it’s their new permanant job maybe until they are old enough to retire, and then their kids could take over the business? And in say, ten years, we will be 5 trillion more dollars in debt and still see no end to this war?
The WSJ ought to know full well that every grand jury investigation is secret except for the circumstances where charges are brought via indictment. They are being disingenuous by saying otherwise — it’s a public feint. And I smell a Comstock.
cathy @ 76
That was the plan!!!!
Not shallow at all. WSJ did a whole article on their pen&ink drawings sometime within the last decade. It’s a separate art form & I’m sure Fitz can get a good, large copy of the original, sutiable for framing. I no longer subscribe to WSJ, don’t pay for it online, so I’m missing it.
Good morning Christy. Ah, the wonders of HDTV. I may have to get me a cat.
Fund of WSJ Opinion on MSRNC right now – able to evade any questions on Iraq by saying it’s all about 08 – on both sides of the aisle – oooh, how very balanced
agree — also agree with lhp and
scarecrow above — using their ed.
page as a bully-pulpit to, erhm. . .
bully. . . fitzpatrick?
bad idea, for the neo-cons. . .
i think it likely he is still
watching cheney and rove. . .
General Barry McCaffrey proved what a liar and political hack he is when he was Drug Czar. Anyone who thinks the truth is more important than the agenda to this guy is drinking the cool-aide
Thanks Scarecrow for the link to Feingold’s remarks on NPR. Feingold is so solid. Don’t forget to give him a call, folks, and your own Senators and Congress Critters too. Let them feel some political will.
kdh22 @ 78
I should say…that was a big part of the plan. The other components were, if the conservatives were to be defeated in ‘08, as it appears they will be, then the libs are left with a whole lotta baggage. In the meantime, the military/industrial complex and big pharma and corps make a mint to leave to their heirs. NeoConservatives then begin their theivery of the next election with the $$ bequeathed to them and the cycle begins again. And, from the cons perspective, that’s the second best thing that could happen.
kdh22 @ 78
But how sustainable is borrowing trillions, year after year?
Georgesimian @ 51
We should label this as “Bushs’ Iraq”, “Bushs’ War”, “Bushs’ Battle” or “Bushs’ Never Ending War” they have been trying to pin it’s failures on Dem’s every since we won the election.
Gene Osteen @ 83
Wait just a darn tootin’ second, there! We WON that war, remember? It was such a great victory, particularly the parade at the end!
Veritas78 @ 88
LOL!
-MS
C&L has the video of Feingold on Countdown last night. I’ll add a link to the post.
military music is to music as military justice is to justice as military logic is to logic. figure it out.
cathy @ 86
kdh22 @ 78
cathy @ 76
Here’s what I don’t get. They want us to stay and keep doing what we are doing. But since progress is slow or non existent, it could be years until we leave. So do we keep borrowing money, billions, to keep this up, and do we keep those in the military there, like it’s their new permanant job maybe until they are old enough to retire, and then their kids could take over the business? And in say, ten years, we will be 5 trillion more dollars in debt and still see no end to this war?
That was the plan!!!!
Michael in Park Slope @ 89
Veritas78 @ 88
Gene Osteen @ 83
General Barry McCaffrey proved what a liar and political hack he is when he was Drug Czar. Anyone who thinks the truth is more important than the agenda to this guy is drinking the cool-aide
Wait just a darn tootin’ second, there! We WON that war, remember? It was such a great victory, particularly the parade at the end!
LOL!
-MS
Yeah thanks Ronnie and Nancy for Just Say No. Maybe if Ronnie had smoked a little weed, he wouldn’t have fallen so fast. But no, drugs are death. The irony!!!
[Mod Note; Please only nest 2 or 3 quotes at a maximum. Any more may break the margins. Thank You.]
sunshine @
87
They were blaming the Democrats before the election saying that they voted for the war. And they blamed the Iraqis too! They’re still at it. As if it was anyone’s fault but theirs. It’s sick.
Never buy into the “I have no choice” trance. We always have choices. What we are really doing is excusing our violence towards others because we don’t want to take the consequences — often painful –for choosing otherwise.
Abunocchio! sitting on a wall
Abunocchio! taking a fall
And all the Bushcronycheneymen
Couldn’t pull Abunocchio’s! nose again
Paddy @
42
They’re not inferring squat. They’re simply accusing Fitz of being evil because he actual follows the rules on Grand Jury secrecy.
Someone ought to tell them to get in line after Henry Waxman. They want details? First Henry gets all the details about Turdblossom’s and Dick’s leaking.
That’ll shut them up.
Gene Osteen @
83
He, of all people, should know the value of not pissing upwind. The WOD was pretty analogous to the WOT in the inherent futility of it all.
What it did, however, is expose ‘ole Barry as completely delusional. Why do we put people like this in charge of soldier’s lives? He has the reasoning capacity of a plate of spaghetti.
To my loving mods:
Again, my bad. Will clean up my act. Have a great day!
Just a quick note to all… I have been reading here for some time, but rarely have I posted. I DO feel at home with you all, especially because I have not been around political people since my college days (to long ago to mention!). Thnx.
-MS
One, just lovely, comparison is with U.S. efforts in Philippines. Good recap in http://www.spectator.org/dsp_a…..t_id=11244
Short version: If we stay 50 years, we might get something with a nodding acquaintance to democracy, but only if we fight total war and completely subjugate them first. Sounds like a plan.
Frank Probst @ 73
Did Fitz know that Rove was using the GOP committess e-mails? Is there a reason for him to go after those e-mails at this late stage? His case is still open as I understand it. Waxman & PJ going after what should have been in the WH records. Interesting…
Eh? McCaffrey says Saudia Arabia has not joined in the fray? What does he base that on?
My impression was always that Saudis were a major player.
I have a wingnut brother who still argues that the left “lost” Vietnam, that we could have brought Hanoi to their knees if only the antiwar, America-hating libs would have kept their mouths shut. This from a guy who Fled to Canada to Avoid the Draft! I kid you not.
We need to accept the fact that we will have to live with these 30%-ers all our lives; they will never change, nor ever realize their own myopic hypocrisy.
Ed @ 97
Totally agree with the WOD/WOT comparison. Same concept, different “evils”. They always need something to instill fear in the citizenry. It is akin to the role of religion in the early empires. Religion? Funny how they still use that tactic today!!!
LaFourmiRouge @ 103
I can live with them, as long as they don’t control the government and our schools.
Whoops! Looks like Georgie just lost his reason to invade Iran:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/…..index.html
eCAHNomics @ 100
When we freed the Philippines from Spain and the Philippino population wanted us to leave we killed 200,000 of them in about 6 months. I’d say it was just like Iraq
emptywheel @ 96
Wah! I like that sound of that.
LaFourmiRouge @ 103
Feingold rocked last night.
Also on Olbermann, former CIA analyst Larry Johnson rips McCain/Graham for not only placing troops in harm’s way to support their sad little photo-op, but also endangered the lives of Iraqi merchants there who might be branded as traitors for selling their wares to the enemy. Considering the market got bombed 36 hours later, I believe that assessment holds up pretty well. As Mr. Johnson pointed out, former military men McCain and Graham should know better.
And how many of our tax dollars went to pay for this farce I’d like to know?
As for the now tiresome but classic Republican approach to all opposition, namely, “Do as I say, not as I do,” the msm fixation on the Pelosi/Syria trip highlights their penchant for enabling pathological Republican hypocrisy by ignoring this tidbit of relevant information.
Gene Osteen @ 107
Yep–Total Warfare–”doctrine” by which you do whatever you need to do, meaning in practice, kill as many civilians as possible, to subjugate the country.
eCAHNomics @ 100
Interesting quote from that article:
It sounds like “the wild west” prior to the genocidal pacification of the indigenous population.
oregondave @ 94
Those that rule us have made the decision to try and keep the high energy,wasteful life-styles of the indebted and clueless,as the norm.This requires resource extraction on a massive scale,and the control of the peoples who,by accident of fate,have the misfortune to be in the way.It does not matter if its in the niger delta,or Iran
The one bright light I see now is the truly grassroot movements to beguin developeing 21st cen.lifestyle….the organic farming ,alternitive energy,and the new economy/new progressive movements that are forming under the nose of those in power…without their awareness or realization that they are as obsolete as a 8-trac tape.
I see a lot of pain in the transition,but the dirty fuckin hippies will win…eventually
Avenging_Angel @ 106
Thank G*d! And if cooler heads (than addled Lapdog) successfully negotiated with the Iranians, well, they deserve a big thanks.
Avenging_Angel @ 106
It’s been interesting to watch how the media has played this down, not wishing (I assume) to exacerbate the tensions. But if the UK sailors are released, as I hope, I expect to see a few articles/op-eds arguing that all the Bush blustering and intimidation of Iraq IRAN not only backfired but was shown to be hollow when the Iranians seized a few sailors. I’ll bet Tony Blair told Bush flat out: shut up while I deal with the mess you helped create — or else.
welcome “home“, then michael. . .
cheers!
snuffy @ 113
That’s why BushCo wants us to continually “go shopping”.
mui @ 114
I really adore Ahmedinejad, only in the sense that he is so much better a propogandist than W. You just gotta laugh at what he sez and how he sez it. (Israel stuff excluded.)
mui @ 108
Marcy eats Wheaties for breakfast. Just so you know.
It’s worth noting here that Bush’s war in Iraq and isolation of Iran has strengthened the leadership there, not weakened it as they might have hoped. Just more incompetence, but it’s pretty amazing how damaging a bad President can be.
Correction: Woops, Larry Johnson was a CIA Officer, not analyst. I can’t edit comments from my computer, sorry.
sunshine @ 101:
i think you have that about
right — fitz probably did not
know about rove’s “other” e-mail
accounts at the time. does cheney
have one, too? were i a betting man,
i’d bet that fitz is checking this
out [or, at least watching CSPAN-2
feeds of the leahy/conyers/waxman
hearings for information. . .]
speaking of which — there’s one
of those tomorrow, right?
eCAHNomics @ 118
Brilliant tactics.
He comes out of this appearing to be a reasonable man. In contrast with the angry, constipated individuals depicted in the above photo.
Wigwam @ 112
Yes another great reason to redeploy. I almost think I would rather see the Iranians get Iraq, quite seriously, than have this country become guilty of what the Nazis did to E. Europe.
I don’t recall Cheney saying anything about the British sailors — which if true, is a clear sign that Blair told the US to shut up.
EPU’d now, but Israel’s leaders WANT Pelosi to talk with Assad: http://www.reuters.com/article…..edType=RSS
Scarecrow @ 125
I think Cheney said that he’d like to get Ahmedinejad on a hunting trip.
Christy has a new thread up, with a nice pic of some friends of mine.
Fresh thread, up and ready for the reading.
Susan in Iowa @ 21
I am so glad Feingold never fails to point out his prescience in August of 2006. Dems need to be reminded of their shameless cowardice in running away from him at that time.
Listening to him last night, calling things as they are, namely, that this administration has completely lost touch with reality, and doing it so eloquently and without equivocation, I’m sitting there thinking what an excellent President this man would make! Oh lord, I could be proud to be an American again!
Great post, Scarecrow.
I’ve also found it ironic that some in the admin are admitting (and the Republican conservative members of congress have also admitted) that they’ll support the war through the summer, and if Iraq isn’t just peachy by then, they’ll push for withdrawal. The bi-partisan bills that passed Congress do just that – keep funding in place even longer.
How does Bush think he’s going to keep his little war going? Is he under the delusion that Iraq will magically get so much better by the end of the summer, despite all evidence to the contrary? Or, does he expect he can get Iran into a confrontation and just start moving into their country by then?
I hate to think about what sinister plans he has. Every day, he puts our soldiers in harm’s way with no justification of defending America. Heck, they don’t even have a discernable military objective. It makes my stomach turn.
eCAHNomics @ 118
Yeah I see what you mean. He seems to like to trumpet these pompous proclamations, almost a little like a Ch*n*** official on his high horse. Hopefully the British will allow him to take credit. That would be wise and face-saving, even if there were serious negotiations behind all this.
‘We need to support the U.S. leadership team in Iraq’ !
It’s the ‘US leadership team’ who got ‘us’ into this mess in the first place.
Why would/should we support the ‘US Leadership Team?
mui @ 132
He knows how weak America looks to the rest of the world right now and is exploiting it. He has made fools of the WH and is enjoying every minute. So, although we have only the WH to blame for this, we continue to be subjected to their fear-mongering against Iran.
On the Bush presser yesterday, he’s beginning to sound even more shrill, pampered, petulant, and fish-wifish. How much worse does it have to get before we get some relief? How much worse does it have to get before Repubes realize they’d better distance themselves from an administration utterly divorced from reality lest it come back to bite them in the @$$ in 2008?
Bush: “Just think Dickie, by the time we’re through, we’ll be sitting on a beach earning zillions of dollars in interest. Heh, heh.”
Cheney: “And to think we owe it all to gay people. Ha! God I love the religious right! By the way Rover said the folks at Haliburton were complaining that the last payment was a little light.”
Bush: “I’ll take care of it. Heh, heh.”
Last night I was rather surprised and encouraged by an ABC “Nightline” report on how we’re funding Sunni terrorists in Baluchistan (Pakistan) to attack Iranian targets. Meanwhile, we’ve already known for a few years about the MEK. The reporters couldn’t bring themselves to call them “terrorists” (it was “military actions inside Iran” or “guerilla warfare”), but to have a critical exposure of the administration’s Iran provocations at the same time the Iranians were holding the British sailors (and even to sympathetically report on Iran’s fears of “Anglo-American attempts to foment separatism) seems to be a sign sign that the media aren’t going whole hog for an attack on Iran.
Mandrake @ 134
That’s probably true. But as a matter of diplomacy, I think all people who were involved in the release should let him enjoy his crowing, until this all cools down (next decade perhaps?) I get the feeling that saving face is as important to Iranians as it is in E. Asia.
Scarecrow, in truth it’s been the mandarins at the Foreign Office who have been telling Blair to cool it and let the adults deal with the problem.
This episode really ramped up when Downing Street went on an ill-judged public relations offensive with claims that the British sailors were “clearly” in Iraqi waters — a claim even the tame Iraqi government has notably failed to back, in view of the absence of a settled boundary between Iraq and Iran in the Gulf.
The jingo press in the UK have been trying to whip up some public outrage about Iranian “barbarity”, but Coalition treatment of detainees in Iraq and Afghanistan has succeeded in “defining deviancy down” — the Iranian videos of the sailors have a “quaint” quality to them, as something from a more “gentlemanly” age of warfare. There is further the recognition in the UK that the U.S. have seized five Iranian officials who had legally entered Kurdistan and have held them incommunicado for over 10 weeks.
It will be very interesting to see whether the new Prime Minister attempts to distance Britain’s foreign policy from the U.S. — I think both front benches in the House of Commons are hoping for a Democratic victory in the 2008 presidential election so that they don’t have to face the logic of a rapprochement with France and Germany and the strategic reappraisal that implies.
“Someday, lad, all this will be yours”
“Wot, the curtains?”
“No (smack!), the Iraq occupation”
Scarecrow:
I forgot to add a point to my #136 post. All our politics in the region is focused on an eventual attack on Iran, even if it takes ten years to get in motion (like the Iraq war). That report I mention cleared something up for me: our interest in Pakistan as an “ally in the WOT” has nothing to do with catching Bin Laden, but rather using Pakistan as a terrorist base against Iran.
DeWitt Grey — thanks for that perspective on UK. I think you’re right about the Foreign Office pulling Blair in. The fact that the jingo press got worked up there is interesting, because I did not see the WH trying to get our own jingo press worked up here. They were rather tepid, by normal WH standards. That’s why I think Bush was told not to inflame this. It’s just a guess.
tommy yum @
12
Actually, I keep pointing out that August is not at all abritray. If you look at the monthly trend of casulties theay are always lowest in June-Sept. Why. It is too damned hot and dusty to fight in the Iraqi summer. Sure, well see reduced casulties then and declare victory but wait unto Oct-Nov.
brendan @ 140
Wonder if the State Dept will list the US as a “state sponsor or terrorism.” Nah.
I’m at work and can’t trudge through 150 comments, but regarding McCaffrey, we ought to be asking why anyone should attend so eagerly to the words of a man Sy Hersh exposed as a likely war criminal.
ralphbon @ 144
Thanks for the link.
McCaffrey:
From http://www.theledger.com/apps/…../704040507
That remark – the proposed measure has the support of the United States government, which has made it more difficult for many Iraqis, including the marjaiya, to embrace it – speaks for itself. Here in the UK you could hear the groans all around when Bush stepped into the hostage situation with his demand for our sailors’ release, and it’s interesting to note the flurry of diplomatic activity that followed immediately *after* Iran’s security chief (a rather more powerful figure than their foreign minister) granted a lengthy and measured interview with John Snow of Channel 4 (UK TV) News.
I have contacted my US Senator, Mary Landrieu, and asked her to investigate the possibility of employing the tactic, used by the rethugs wrt the Terry Schiavo and during a congressional recess, to ensure a two-thirds override vote of the presumed veto of the Emergency Supplemental Appropriations bill by King George the Lesser. I heard, via Air America and earlier today, a caller alluding to old Rovian maneuvers the rethugs used to get certain pieces of legis passed.
Wrt to congressional override of a veto: on Mondays, Tuesdays, and Wednesdays, rules can be suspended and the presiding officer can call for a vote despite the objection of even a single congressman. So the Honorable Nancy Pelosi would need to hall the dems back on a Sunday during the recess and she could, I think, get the vote to override the self-annointed king’s presumed veto at 12:01 a.m. Monday. The senate, however, might require more musceling by Reid in order to accomplish the feat.
Since IANAL, can anyone tell me if this might work?
mui @ 124
Yes another great reason to redeploy. I almost think I would rather see the Iranians get Iraq, quite seriously, than have this country become guilty of what the Nazis did to E. Europe.
Phoenix Woman @ 126
Isn’t Israel part of the reason were in this mess?
I hope Pelosi or Reid follow Cheney every time he comes out of hiding. Kinda gets the true story for us & we don’t have to depend on what the WH spins.
I hate that picture!
how about one that isnt a victory lap from the campaign.
one where he is tired and worn out and shrugging his shoulders…or that odd dress up one from yesterday where he looks like a fake cowboy headed to Fire Island?
I’m really confused. What time is it? I just posted on the next thread, about 20 minutes ago now, and it suddenly disappeared. There were about 60 comments on the thread already. I’ve seen posts disappear before, but never this far along. Is something wrong that took the system down? Anybody know?
Thinking Southerner @ 147
Couldn’t both Reid and Pelosi call “emergency” sessions to vote on overriding fuckwit’s presumed veto? Using the Shrub’s own words, they could say that the troops need the resources now and that they can’t afford the President’s veto of the spending package.
King clusterfuck is so wounded right now, and Reid and Pelosi are master politicians, that the Congress has a chance to do “the right thing” while driving another stake into the heart of W’s corrupt regime.
mui @ 137
Agreed. I was just pointing out how the WH has consistently played into the hands of the very people/nations they have labeled our enemies. So I’m really sick of hearing from the WH how evil and uncivilized they are. Iran is looking good right now, considering their basic adherence to the Geneva Conventions in this instance, as opposed to Abu Ghraib.
Anybody got an opinion or updated information on Obama’s controversial statements re: caving to Bush’s veto?
I’ve said it before, McCaffrey is wildly inconsistent. His views and evaluations of US progress in Iraq change weekly. He’s called the surge “a fool’s errand.” He’s praised the hard work of contractors: “Without that contractor effort, this war would have ground to a halt two years ago”. Now it’s “We need to support the U.S. leadership team in Iraq for this one last effort to succeed.”
McCaffrey is a seriously conflicted individual in every sense of the phrase. It’s not surprising that a decorated Viet Nam vet wants one last push towards victory. It’s well documented that many hawks of that war (ex-soldiers and current politicians) are adamant that we don’t “lose” this one.
McCaffrey is also an NBC military analyst. He needs to express some criticism of US military strategy in Iraq to maintain credibility. He also feels it’s his duty to support the war effort not just as a retired US general but also as a businessman. It wouldn’t be prudent for him to be too critical of the Pentagon.
McCaffery is on the board of: Dyncorp International (supplies security personnel and police trainers in Iraq and Afghanistan), McNeil Technologies ($4.6 billion dollar Army contract thru a joint deal with Dyncorp for Iraq translation and and interpretation services), HNTB Federal Services (military engineering contractor), and The Wornick Company (provides meals-ready-to-eat AKA MREs to the military).
McCaffrey’s making a serious chunk of change from this war while appearing to play both sides of the fence. Barry would take a hit in the wallet if the Iraq war ended any time soon.
AF
Malkin and her ilk have grown both fat and crafty suckling at the teat of Rove.
nolo @ 122
Did he have some of those e-mails?
Were any of them used as evidence?
If he knew about them and didn’t get them, then why?
McCaffery is on the board of: Dyncorp International (supplies security personnel and police trainers in Iraq and Afghanistan), McNeil Technologies ($4.6 billion dollar Army contract thru a joint deal with Dyncorp for Iraq translation and and interpretation services), HNTB Federal Services (military engineering contractor), and The Wornick Company (provides meals-ready-to-eat AKA MREs to the military).
Thanks for that info! Didn’t know his connection to the military/industrial complex but knew there had to be one. So my theory that his life-long military mindset is what causes him to say these conflicting things is debunked by his life-long commitment to worshipping the almighty dollar?
Well, I’ll be
said in Pvt. Pyle voice
Mandrake @
130
It seems to me that Russ Feingold is the kind of bold, tough, smart leader that we need as President of the United States of America. Americans would be proud of him as he would give them genuine reason to be proud.
kdh22 @
156
AF — really interesting. You’d think NBC would feel obligated to reveal McCaffrey’s conflicts whenever they bring him on.
McCaffery calls “the basis for hope.”
“We need to support the U.S. leadership team in Iraq for this one last effort to succeed.”
Bullshit
The war a lie=Insanity
The Surge=Insanity
(War)(Surge)(bush cheney)=complete and utter incompetent chaos
Re Paddy @ 42, and follow-up comments:
I’ve been tracking the Dow Jones & Company’s Motions to Unseal (thanks to cboldt’s efforts to get the December 2006 Motion and the government response on-line). Their third such Motion – regarding the same redacted Circuit Court Tatel opinion the others addressed – was filed by Dow Jones and the Associated Press on March 7th – the day after the Libby verdict was announced (the Appeals Court had denied their second, very untimely 12/06 Motion without prejudice pending the outcome of the ongoing Libby trial).
I’ve also tracked back the underlying affidavits at issue. Here’s what I’ve deduced:
About 4 of the 8 pages of Tatel’s redacted original 2/05 Opinion were released 2/06 after Dow Jones filed their first Motion to Unseal in 11/05 right after the Libby indictment. At the same time, the Circuit Court asked Fitzgerald to release as much of his sealed affidavits from which Tatel drew his information as possible. Fitzgerald did so, and the result was that about half of one of two affidavits at issue was also released 2/2006.
That partially released affidavit is dated 8/27/04, and was filed under seal in the District Court in opposition to Judith Miller’s and (I believe) Walter Pincus’s Motions to Quash grand jury subpoenas (and would involve Libby testimony and Fleischer testimony as their sources). The portion released related to Miller’s testimony about Libby (and vice versa), much of which was revealed by the Libby indictment. The rest of that affidavit would appear to primarily relate to Pincus, and may or may not include grand jury testimony that did not come out at trial.
The second affidavit that Tatel (and the District Court) relied on, is dated 9/27/04, and none of it was released in 2/2006 – apparently because its contents very much related to still-secret grand jury testimony. That affidavit appears to primarily relate to testimony by Karl Rove and Matthew Cooper, and was filed in response to Cooper and TIME’s Motions to Quash their (Rove-related) grand jury subpoenas.
I haven’t read the latest Motion or the government’s response [the government responded 3/22 with another sealed ex parte affidavit (which piques my interest, if the government is not ready to release those older affidavits), and Dow Jones replied on 3/30]. So this WSJ editorial is the first hint of what the government’s response was to Dow Jones’s third Motion. I’ve assumed that a great deal of the second, unreleased affidavit is still unable to be released by Fitzgerald, under, and due to, grand jury secrecy rules about not-yet-public testimony – in this case from Rove, and from Cooper about Rove (and maybe others). So that would prove nothing one way or the other, about any investigation-related reason the government might have for objecting to the release of more sealed testimony from the 2004 affidavits. The same Rule 6(e) reason may apply to the portion of the other affidavit that apparently relates to Pincus (who I believe may never have publicly ‘confessed’ to moving to quash his subpoena, although that’s apparently what he did). The 4 remaining redacted pages of Tatel’s Opinion are simply reciting information contained in one or both of the underlying Fitzgerald affidavits.
The point that needs underscoring, however, is that these efforts by Miller, Cooper, TIME, etc., to avoid complying with grand jury subpoenas under cover of the “First Amendment” never had a realistic chance of succeeding due to the clear, binding precedent of the Branzburg SCOTUS decision (as nolo points out at #72). The (admitted) m.o. of the media, however, is to make endless objections and appeals should any reporter get subpoenaed, in order to try to discourage the government from requesting testimony from reporters in the first place. So they try to run out the clock, and run up the legal bills, even knowing their chances are slim to none to carve out a dangerous exception for the 54,000 “reporters” in this country who would be excused from providing testimony to grand juries in good faith federal criminal investigations. The “free press” ought to be held accountable for this cynical abuse of our justice system. But Dow Jones & Co., Inc., has the money to play this game for just as long as they feel like it, and then some.
nolo’s very clear Branzburg excerpt drives the point home:
http://noeasyanswer.blogspot.c…..libby.html
A great post and I agree about Mcaffery–a pretty intelligent guy who still can’t seem to see the nose on his face when it comes to Iraq. But you state:
“It seems that even comparatively credible, realistic military analysts cannot bring themselves to accept the painful conclusion that sometimes it’s better to just back away from an unmitigated disaster, and rethink what we’re doing, than to continue trying to fix it with the same approaches that failed before.”
Actually, I think there is a somewhat bigger problem at work here: Americans (especially military type Americans have a very hard getting their minds around the idea that there are some things that are so fucked up that they can’t be fixed, even by us can-do Americanos. I know–I worked at the Pentagon with these folks (as the house liberal in the OSD General Counsel’s Office). The by-word is and has been for a long time “mission oriented.”
Still in all, if McAffery is saying stay the course. one can only imagine what lapdogs like Pace and Patraeus are saying.
Their is a huge gap between them todaely and between the likes of Charlie Rangel. Rangel was asked by a caller on NPR yesterday whether we can’t still win by pouring in more troops (this guy suggested 270,000!). Rangel responded:
“WIN WHAT??”
What so many of you see to fail to grasp is that it is not the GOAL of the US to fix Iraq.
The goal of the US is to train Iraqi security forces and THEY along with their government will fix it. THEY will fight the sectarian violend, not US forces.
US forces will stay in Iraq to help the Iraqis fight the foreign jihadists (Al Quaeda), and to provide logistical, air, medical, training… support to the Iraqi military in their effort to end the sectarian violence.
And in achieving this goal the US is about 70% there and within a year will have achieved success.
Scarecrow @
158
If NBC doesn’t mention that James Carville has consulted for Hillary Clinton when he’s on MTP criticizing Obama, why would they mention Barry McCaffrey’s multiple ties to the military-industrial complex when he comments on Iraq? Then there’s the unsettling fact that can never be mentioned enough: wholly owned by General Electric, NBC is part of the military-industrial complex too. Considering NBC in that context, maybe that’s why they’re so lax in stating conflicts of interest and avoid disclaimers.
Perhaps NBC News feels that pointing out the conflicts if interest of their guests and consultants would only serve to call attention to the inherent conflict of interest in their very existence. It’s equally possible that NBC is just plain lazy.
AF
Malkin and her ilk have grown both fat and crafty suckling at the teat of Rove.
Ed @
97
Woo hoo! I love that mental image.
All the futility of the drug war with all the criminality of the war on Iraq twisted around like snakes on the plate with all the constant spewing of lies from the Right and topped off with the arrogant smirk of Dubya and Rover.
It’s a wicked meal nobody can consume and when the check comes the Repubs are nowhere to be seen, having distanced themselves. But, wait…is that Hillary coming up to dig in for more of the garbage.
It’s definately a wicked meal.
To be more precise, re my #160, about the contents of the 2004 Fitzgerald affidavits:
Because obtaining the grand jury testimony of Miller (for the first time), Cooper (for the second time), and Pincus (for the first time) was the object in pursuit of which the affidavits were filed, the affidavits obviously do not contain the secret grand jury testimony of Miller, Cooper (or Pincus) which they were resisting giving. Rather, the 8/27/04 affidavit would/does contain Libby’s (and Fleischer’s and probably Kessler’s) grand jury testimony as it related to conversations with Miller and Pincus, and the 9/27/04 affidavit would contain Rove’s grand jury testimony (as of 9/04) as it related to his conversation with Cooper and perhaps Cooper’s grand jury testimony as it related to Libby (which Fitzgerald had already obtained from Cooper on 8/23/04), possibly along with testimony about Rove from other reporters we don’t yet know about and/or from other government sources that Cooper may have spoken with. I blurred this distinction between the pre-2005 vs. post-2005 state of the government’s knowledge with regard to Miller’s and Cooper’s testimony to the grand jury, in my first comment.
I’ll just add that the WSJ can’t even accurately characterize its own company’s legal filings that are the subject of today’s editorial hackery… The full rationale and legal underpinnings for Fitzgerald’s grand jury subpoenas for testimony from Miller and Cooper are already very much in evidence in the partial 8/2004 affidavit and long Judge Tatel and binding Circuit Court opinions that are already on the public record. The WSJ definitely, and deceptively, protests too much…
Referring to the foto of Darth and Chimpy, I’ll quote the line from ‘Animal House’:
“A wimp, and a blimp!”