Students at American University tried to make a citizen's arrest of Karl Rove last night at one of his canned "invitation only" speaches in front of the College Republicans:
Student organizers say they organized the demonstration after compelling evidence that Rove violated an act stipulating that all presidential email be recorded on a White House server.
You can see the news report here and no, that's not MC Porky rapping the intro.
Looks like Henry Waxman isn't the only one who finds the GWB43 server issue peculiar. Emptywheel:
Now, as to the scope, just the campaign strategy sessions alone may well be a violation of the Hatch Act–which requires the person behind those sessions to be fired. (Then of course, knowingly leaking classified information to journalists usuallly requires the person to lose their security clearance, which, in Turdblossom's case, would get him fired too, but never mind that.)
But Waxman is looking for any GWB43 emails sent or received by Turdblossom relating to "the use of federal agencies or resourcs to help Republican candidates." Last I checked, DOJ counted as a federal agency. As did GSA. As did the DHS (remember the plane used to chase down Democrats in TX?). So this may well be a large universe of emails.
Regardless of the scope of the transgression, this one may capture the public's imagination because it implies Rove has been able to evade consequences for many of his actions by using illegal servers. It's nice that the Oversight Committee is poking around here this week, because it looks like the natives are getting restless.
Related posts:
- Karl Rove: That’s Why They Call It a Limited Hang-Out
- Washington Post: Rove More Involved in US Attorney Firings Than He Claims
- Karl Rove May Not Care About Muslims’ Opinion of the US, But We Should
- Al Gore’s Current TV Lays Off 80 Staff, Changes Direction
- Jim Cooper and Karl Rove Talking Health Care in Nashville This Saturday
Spotlight
Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search
Jane!
Waxman!
Oh yeah. This feels good.
Karl Rove: You have the right to remain silent. In fact, we insist.
I am a restless native.
Pretty soon, we will be flies on the wall.
AWESOME!
Turdblossom is now getting a first-hand sense for how much he is hated.
Is it possible that they may be starting to realize they’re in trouble?
As far as I’m concerned, Nancy Pelosi is my President. DC and GWB are just lame duck clowns.
tommy yum @
3
The videos are pretty satisfying. You wanna buy those kids a beer or something.
Avenging_Angel @ 7
As long has George W. loves him, he’s happy
My only regret is that they didn’t wallop him in the face.
Elliott @ 10
And maybe JimmyJeff GuckertGannon.
were they throwing sausages at him?
Liked the “go to jail Karl” voice. So we hope.
twolf1 @ 13
Rove looks like he loves sausages…which is practically cannibalism in his case, but why should that surprise any of us?
The above vid is great. I also like the one @ HuffPo- you can hear someone shouting “You suck!,” & later somebody else yelling either “go to hell” or “go to jail”…
Nice, Jane!
OT, but cool: C-Span 3 tonight
09:23 PM EDT
Forum – Progressive Movement and the Internet
YearlyKos Convention
Gloria Totten , Progressive Majority
Nathan Newman , Progressive States Network
I don’t know whether to call them brave or crazy but you got to love them students. I’m glad to see that students still have a lot of fight left in them.
It may make me a bad person but though I didn’t want to see Rove actually hit with anything I certainly hope that he was friggin terrified.
I’m thinkin’ I wouldn’t mind being somewhere that Porky Rove was speaking with a dozen rotten eggs. And maybe a few rotten apples as well.
OT. New Froomkin up at WaPo.
I hope they weren’t throwing sausages at him! What a waste of perfectly good sausages.
I certainly do! We’d get to see if DHS’s inspector general whitewashed the sucker the way we all figure he did.
Manimal @ 21
What about bad pet food? *s*
Speaking of students’ protesting, has everyone caught up on the BYU kerfluffle against Shooter’s speaking at commencement? BYU for crying out loud! Couldn’t be any more conservative college anywhere. (Well, maybe a few). BYU entrance requirements are not only Mormon, but also have to have straight As, I’ve been told.
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/….._0404.html
Reminds me of this:
-Oliver Wendell Holmes
Scenes like this.
For. The. Rest. Of. Rove’s. Life.
Or until he goes to jail.
Bet they used the RNC servers specifically so they can fall back on an “it’s all partisan politics/trying to steal our secrets” defense.
Anybody ‘member when the Monica hard drives were confiscated?
I’m savoring this moment.
Aaaaahhhhhhh!
Thanks, Hank!
Now if only Rove has a blue dress…
EPU’d…
In regards to the emails. Most companies will have at least one or more backup methods or media for their servers.
So even if someone destroyed the disk drives by drilling through them or they went missing — there should be at least one backup somewhere — maybe more. But I would want Waxman and the rest of them to be very aggressive in seizing the servers or media backup soon! Because sometimes you cannot restore data, even with excellent forensics.
There was a story not long ago about a computer technician accidentally deleting applicant information for an oil-funded account of $38 million and mistakenly reformatting the backup drive, as well. Their third-line of defense were the backup tapes — and they were unreadable. All gone. So time may be of essence.
Manimal @ 29
I’ll betcha Rudy has a blue dress.
eCAHNomics @ 24
OT- Isn’t it interesting to think that Neil LaBute & Aaron Eckhart went to BYU & did plays there…
Froomkin is back up. It’s so funny. I sent something to Jane yesterday that she didn’t use but it’s like Froomkin and I were channeling each other on Bush’s presser yesterday.
http://www.commondreams.org/ar…..04/04/302/
(Jimmy Carter presser on cspan1 now– 1st question on Katrina and then he goes on to support Pelosi’s trip and says that he was ordered by the WH not to visit Syria when he was monitoring the Palestinian elections)
Manimal @ 29
If he doesn’t I’m sure Rudy can lend him one.
Mod: Please take us out of bold. From # 31 on.
[Mod note: We did, refresh your page.]
eCAHNomics @ 31
Sorry eCAHNomics, you posted while I was typing. Great minds… etc.
biodun @ 34–those hackers are never around when you need them. U.S. trying to extradite one from UK for getting into DOD stuff, IIRC. Let’s get ahold of him!
BTW, has anybody commented that naming that server “gwb43.com” was incredibly fucking stupid?!? Waxman would simply have to investigate a server with that name, even if it contained nothing but grocery lists. Using a server named that for clandestine communications is like trying to slip unnoticed through a crowd carrying an air horn that goes off every ten seconds.
MC Karl does the White Man’s Overbite…
Harry: …You just get to a certain point when you get tired of the whole thing.
Sally: What whole thing?
Harry: The whole life-of-a-single-guy. You meet someone, you have the safe lunch, you decide you like each other enough to move on to dinner, you go dancing, you do the white man’s overbite, you go back to her place, you have sex, and the minute you’re finished, you know what goes through your mind? How long do I have to lie here and hold her before I can get up and go home? Is thirty seconds enough?
Sally: That’s what you’re thinking? Is that true?
Harry: Sure. All men think that. How long do you like to be held afterwards? All night, right? See, that’s the problem. Somewhere between thirty seconds and all night is your problem.
Sally: I don’t have a problem.
Harry: Yeah, you do.
Dear Commander Codpiece, Dead Eye & Miss Piggy,
Somewhere between Shock-and-Awe and the 40-Year-Plan is (y)our problem.
lisadawn82 @ 18
There are busloads of students at all the antiwar protests. I always find it entertaining when the wingnuts try to spin out a line that today’s students are “more conservative” so the future will belong to them. I didn’t buy it at the time, and isn’t it funny how we’re not hearing anything about that one any more?
Steve T. @ 40
LOL I thought the same thing. But then it looks like stupid is with stupid in this case!
Hey, I’m wondering if Fitz has read gwb43.com emails.
I’m not into throwing things, even eggs or cream pies. Lying down in the street? Okay. Heckling? Sure. But if we throw things, they’ll feel free to fire bullets.
Morris Sheppard @ 38: Great minds think alike. Either that or: consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.
Wow. I love that video. While it’s hard to see what’s going on you can just FEEL the rage.
Breaking. WMD’s missing in D.C. E-mail servers were seen by satellite being transported by truck to…Cheney’s house?
In all fairness, the could have named it “constitutionshmonstitution.com”, “nobodywilleverfindtheseemailslol!.com”, or “hideyouremailshere.com”.
pwrlght @ 44
Me too. And I wonder if we will ever know.
Veritas78 @ 45
And Rover would not hesitate to have his “contracutal security personnel” open fire at the first sign of trouble.
LS @ 48
Can hard drives fit into a shredder? /snark
Blackwater?
In all fairness, they could have named it “constitutionschmonstitution.com”, “nobodywilleverfindtheseemailslol!.com” or “hideyouremailsregardindillegalactivitieshere.com”.
yellowsnapdragon @ 49
Just saying – if Fitz and his team never had access to the “private” accounts and it now appears that Bush & Co. have been doing government business on them. It adds a whole new element. MORE Fitzmas!
Steve T. @ 40
Well, I don’t think what they were going for was something that was totally secret, but using a system that at least some of them had plausible reason to be communicating with (sure, it was still illegal to do it on government time and from government offices, but that’s a relatively minor offense if you don’t have Fox News hyping it.) If they used an existing outside service or set up something solely for that purpose, it would have been much more obvious that the only reason they were doing it is to hide their communications. So it’s still a stupid plan overall, but I think it’s stupid in a different way than you’re suggesting. *g*
testing…
Hugh, with extreme humility I’m using a comment from the General’s to riff
in a really extended wayoff your comment above about Froomkin’s latest, which is excellent.Bold is mine.
It’s not the kind of thing that lends itself easily to a soundbyte, but a Khmer Rouge type leader is what the WH wants and what Bush’s occupation will bring to malevolent fruition. It’s critical that Democrats find some way to inoculate ourselves, right now, against this.
eCAHNomics @ 52
If I had to guess…yes.
Carter rips the WH on the attorney firings– says the Preznit has the right to fire, but asks if lies have been told… he calls for subpoenas since the testimony is not being given freely and not on the record.
Says abu should go.
In all fairness, they could have named it “constitutionschmostitution.com”, “nobodywillfindtheseemailslol!.com” or “hideemailsregardingillegialactivitieshere.com”.
(I hope this doesn’t appear like, three times. I’m having probs posting messages).
I’m picturing him in a form fitting gold lame, perhaps with a feather boa tossed saucily over the shoulder.
How do we know they don’t use all sorts of other email systems? Stupidity wouldn’t stop them. Heck, even getting caught doesn’t stop them
In all fairness, they could have named it “hideemailsregardingillegialactivitieshere.com”.
pwrlght @ 54
Seconded!
It’s not the kind of thing that lends itself easily to a soundbyte, but a Khmer Rouge type leader is what the WH wants and what Bush’s occupation will bring to malevolent fruition.
They’ve had the Khmer Rouge type leaders just no the Khmer Rouge type Army. I don’t like what we have done but it doesn’t excuse Al Zarqawi and his ilk.
pwrlght @ 54
“If information comes to light or if new information comes forward that warrants further investigation, we will do that.” P. Fitzgerald
(I had to go hunt up the exact quote.)
I don’t think the name is so dumb, the server was set up during the 2004 campaign, and thats when they started using it.
What WAS dumb was sending mails from the gwb43.com domains to addresses of people inside government system. If they had been rigorous enough to keep the two systems totally separate, we never would have found out about the off-site email addresses, which were discovered when the emails from the official systems were released.
Bullseye.
Didn’t Gore get in trouble for making one phone call for the DNC on the WH phone? And that led to Bush saying something about how disappointed at Gore’s response to it. I don’t remember it all now. But it seems like small potatoes compared to Rove.
carolyn urban @ 60
pink lipstick, blue eyeshadow
Poor Karl and his permanent revolution.
Karl and the Authoritarian party started renovations on our Republic before the close of escrow.
And now – no sale.
But – hey – what’s this is in the kitchen sink?
Oh – the Patriot Act. And the Total Information Awareness programs Adm. Poindexter started. (Congress closed the TIA and Adm P. got the boot – but the surveillance of US domestic telephone/internet traffic continues.)
Oh – look under the sink! The Echelon system – where the UK, US, and Australia evade their own laws baning domestic listening. SO they listen to their allies’ citizens – and then give the intercepted traffic to the their allies’ spooks. So the NSA gets the UK/Aussie intercepts of US doemstic traffic.
Oh yeah – the NSA. I wonder how much they love Karl…with his spoor traqcked all around the Plame treachery.
Damn – these Rethugs just don’t know how to pick up after themselves.
So they needn’t bother destroying their physical evidence – too late.
And even if the NSA won’t share – everyone who put sniffers on the traffic into/out of the gwb43 server farm has their own copies.
And they can get the copies to Waxman anytime they choose.
But with all these new secret programs – when Waxmans subpoena’d the NSA data – would you even know, Karl?
So you don’t know what they have on you already – from the servers and blackberry accounts and text messaging.
Guess a police state isn’t such a good idea after all, Karl.
We already knew that. You and your partners in “revolution” are about to learn why.
We’ll dismantle your little homage to Himmler, but it will take time to dislodge the “bitter enders” of the GOP from their need for tyranny.
So you’ll be on trial before your authoritarian laws have been repealed.
Did you enjoy your “permanent revolution”, Karl?
You only had six years to savor it. That must have been hard – your heroes got twice as many years to play with their thousand year Reich.
But we’ll make it up to you with double the trials: domestic and international.
When you’re taken to the Hague, do bring the jailers your very best quail wing recipes.
You won’t be needing them for quite some time.
Quzi @ 30
Redshift @ 64
and I appreciate the effort!
eCAHNomics @ 62
Good point. We heard reports during Fitz’s investigation that they were using prepaid disposable cell phones (just like the terrorists), so who knows what else they’re doing to hide their illegal activities.
The saving grace, perhaps, is that they tend to trip up on the technical details that could keep it truly hidden, because they don’t believe in expertise and their arrogance makes them certain that they’re smarter than everyone else.
OT– To a question as to why candidates don’t speak freely on Israel/Palestine, Jimmy blames a*p*c.
He’s says what they do is not illicit and they are very successful, but their pressure (financial and otherwise) is enormous on our pols and “this is the truth”.
close bold
eCAHNomics @ 61
I agree with you, surely the really really dam*ing stuff is buried a little deeper and more securely.
Georgesimian @ 69
Yup. They always loudly accuse their opponents of what they’re doing themselves (and unlike this case, usually what they’re doing openly.)
Great way to put it, kirk murphy @70. Anyone and everyone can get caught in a police state.
WH used GWB43 during the time Abramoff was doing his things.
WH used GWB43 during the time USA’s were being ousted.
DOJ used GWB43 during this time as well.
So, during the Plame outing period they most likely did as well. Does anyone think that the 12-hour delay by Gonzo at the time the WH communications re Plame had anything to do with that. What exactly did Fitz ask for and would it have covered something like this? We already know he found something irregular in the archiving of WH e-mail.
I work with kids, 16 to 18, and they are politicized. These kids passed cynicism long ago; they are filled with contempt for this administration.
Love your comment kid!
Love your comment kirk!
Personally, I like “incrediblyfuckingstupidgwb43.com”
from Waxmans site
Committee Requests Deposition of Former White House Aide Susan Ralston
Today the Committee sent a formal request to former White House aide Susan Ralston to appear for a deposition on April 5th. The deposition is part of the Committee’s investigation, begun last spring, into lobbying contacts between lobbyist Jack Abramoff and the White House.
Environment
Didnt Susan brag that she had a GWB43 Blackberry and could work out side the White House
Looks like hungryjoe broke the tubes with his double post. Yo, Joe, from “Catch 22″ or no?
snowbird42 @ 84
my, my!
Never been prouder of my Alma Mater! Go Eagles!
dakine01 @
19
Here in philadelphia, we prefer D-cell batteries.
Oh dear, sorry about the mutltiple messages. The tubes, they are a broken.
f#@king A:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..mp;search=
John Casper @ 56
I just can’t see a Khmer Rouge style genocide in Iraq, lots of killing yes, that’s already going on and could get a lot worse, but the dynamics, cultures, and regional politics are different.
And even though it was never ours to win, Iraq was ours to lose and Bush lost it. What our policy should be focused on now is 1)leaving and 2)minimizing the damage resulting from that departure.
The Murtha Plan or something like it is a reasonable way to go. It is only Bush spin that says there is no other way to go then stay the course or cut and run.
Remember RIM was almost out due to some arcane copyright/IP stuff?
Turns out they were at least partially saved by having so many US govt workers as users. Didn’t seem so important to me then.
Plus, RIM is CAN. Signals cross boundaries. Automatic NSA scans.
Servers could be tough to subpoena though.
OT but a big woohoo!
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..03044/7849
Time to put the pressure on Governor Lynch.
This is exactly the kind of action that I have been waiting for.
I remember the dramatic abuse Nixon suffered from the student anit-war movement with fondness.
I believe it was the “drama” (mass demonstrations, teach-ins, etc) that finally tipped the scales for the “silent majority”.
Make Rove a pariah! Wipe that smarmy smirk right off his face.
Let him rest his head on his pillow thinking to himself, “That was a close one. I wonder how many more times THAT is going to happen.”
angie @ 74
though not a talented politician, jimmie is one of the most intelligent presidents ever. i am not aware of jimmy carter ever lying. it’s certainly possible that he did, maybe even probable, but compared to subsequent presidents? not so much.
it was such an irony that we traded him for reagan. until now, one of america’s darkest manifestations of idiocy.
Hugh@91
John Casper@56
Somewhere I’ve seen a cartoon about skipping the civil war & going directly to the strong man.
There’ve been stories about how W’s shopping for one. Alawi’s name sometimes attached. But there’s never a good strongman aroung when you need one.
Now, if U.S. had a sensible policy, it would be talking to Iraq’s neighbors and
Dream on.
The Murtha Plan or something like it is a reasonable way to go. It is only Bush spin that says there is no other way to go then stay the course or cut and run.
NO BODY FROM NOWHERE @ 93
In the more innocent days of our country, bad eggs and rotten tomatoes would have been Rove’s constant companions.
Is anyone else having to close their window and reboot to see new comments?
if all the other stuff that Rovey has done hasn’t gotten him fired and arrested, this won’t either…
Latest FaBlog: Fait Divers — “Al Gore = Sanjaya”
And IIRC, LBJ was very upset by the constant chanting across 16th St: Hey, hey, what do you say? How many troops have you killed today?
Badly need more of the above.
I love all of the above, but I didn’t want to forget about old reliable, “it’sokifyou’rearepublicangwb43.com”
OT, let’s watch it wrt making statements that could be construed as advocating violence against anyone. Rove will probably plant someone at just such an occasion to hit him in the head with a rock, just so he can claim to be a martyr. In Rove we’re talking about
a G. Gordon Liddy typea guy who put himself in front of one of the wheels of AF1 on the tarmac tograb attentionshow his absolute loyalty to GWB.raven @ 97
pentagon billing requests?
*wave to Blank Kludge*
pwright @54
better yet, if during the investigation Fitz/FBI/Grand Jury was told something to the contrary (i.e. no other info/accounts/documents exist).
{doing my very best Homer Simpson hypno-donut-drool now.}
LS @ 79
Do we know conclusively what that irregularity was? IIRC there were 250 documents that Fitz got that were not archived according to normal procedures. Were any of those emails, and were they from WH servers? Does anyone know?
A HUGE THANK YOU to the courageous students at AmUniv for bringing it home to Rover. Know that you students are the first ones to serve any consequences whatsoever to him. Hopefully you’ve started a trend, a trend that will reclaim your country, present and future, from the claws of the criminals who aim to steal it from you.
ES –
Smilin’…
Pace accelerated to type lately..
lurkin’…
*waves back*
edit: didn’t Gonzo get the silent treatment when he spoke at Leahy’s alma mater a while back? Last spring maybe?
Pete Bogs @ 100
the times they are a changin’.
that was then. this is now.
you don’t have to be a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.
karl had better stock up on small animals or get fuckwad to teach him how to jog.
make that sprint …….
Oh, swell. Monica Goodling’s attorney just compared John Conyers to Joseph McCarthy.
GWB in my city today, kind of sneaking around apparently:
“Bush is scheduled to land at 4:30 p.m. at Los Angeles International Airport, where he will present a President’s Volunteer Service Award to 22-year- old Hannah Locke, a senior at Pitzer College in Claremont. He will then attend an RNC event at an undisclosed location, and depart from LAX at 7 p.m.”
Here’s what a student at AmUniv says really happened:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/4/4/131419/2198
Per my 12:06 Photo of Rove sitting in front of an AF1 tire on the tarmac
Props to emptywheel, first heard about this from her.
agreed fahrender at 95– he is a consummate diplomat and humanitarian.
ralphbon @ 110
Coming from them, we’ll take it as a compliment.
I completely agree – I’m so proud of these young people, and I am loving the growing rage that I see all around me.
I called Feingold and Reid this morning to thank them for their stand against chimps veto threat, and I found myself ranting, just so angry, a raised voice rant for a solid five minutes; in both cases there was silence on the other end till I finished, then each staffer warmly thanked me for my call. They really want to hear from us.
raven @ 96
It’s main mission would be containment and deterrence. Our presence would help squelch a regional conflict. It’s use in setting limits on the civil war would depend on what arrangements we had made with the Iraqi government during our withdrawal. Beyond this and depending on the situation, some limits could be imposed on Iraq, much as the No-Fly zones were.
Marie Roget @ 111
Good luck driving from LAX to Claremont at 4:30 pm. You’d be lucky to be in Claremont by 7:00 p.m., let alone back to LAX. He must be travelling by helicopter and I hope the RNC is picking up at least part of the tab.
brendancalling @
88
How very five-pointsian of you! (Yeah I know Five Corners is in NYC, but it just seems D-cells are would be the modern day projectile of choice for Bill the Butcher)
ePluribus has some article (that I can’t locate now – Rayne would know, I bet) that outlines some shadowy IT contractor connection RNC/govt/gwb43.
I’m not certain wiping the info is that far-fetched.
That Hatch Act business may be tough to move on. Isn’t politics defined as the art of taking as much credit as possible while accepting responsibility for as little as possible? I imagine things in Presidential administrations are delegated as far and wide as possible so as to diffuse any ability for blame to be placed.
ralphbon @ 109
IANAL, but a scorched earth policy is maybe not the best way to defend your client’s interests.
OMG. My son went to Pitzer. Graduated just 5 years ago. Was looney left back then. Find it hard to believe it went over to the dary side since.
ralphbon @
110
you know a guy is really smart when he:
1. jumps to conclusions and
2. assumes that he knows what’s going on in someone else’s
head.
John Dowd might be channeling Joe McCarthy. It’s him that is acting like Tailgunner Joe.
So from reading the Dkos report – the students didn’t actually throw anything at Rove – shocking the MSM got something wrong. It would help if they would stop getting tips from Drudge.
It is refreshing to see that there are young people today that are protesting the posioning of minds that Karl Rove was providing the other young people at their University.
Hugh @ 117
Hmm, sound like what I was doing just South of the DMZ oh so many years ago. Shitty duty.
Ah, but the media continue to provide the feathery soft landing–which prompted my mini-rant in a yesterday thread about Grandpa Charlie.
And likely stirred the same reaction from Froomkin as he considered the broad range of media he sees:
Civil disobedience against the current establishment is the only form of protest that is not hypocritical. We here at the lake know the MSM machinations.
In a four-page letter today, the lawyer for Justice Department official Monica Goodling again rebuffed Democrats’ efforts to hear her testify.
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/002950.php
FWIW, according to wikipedia, Bill the Butcher’s character was based on William Poole
eCAHNomics @ 96
Dream on.
Their very first candidate for strong-man in Iraq was Ahmed Chalabi.
How’d that turn out? I remember looking at photos and video of him in a cheesy bright green suit and thinking, man, he looks like he manages a used car lot.
And where is that son-of-a-bitch these days? Last I remember info was coming out that Chalabi had been trying to play ALL sides against the middle. Selling out the Americans to Iran, selling out the Iranians to Israel, selling out the Iraqis to the contractors, selling out the contractors to his family members, selling out his family members to…well, you get the idea. Round and round we go.
Kinda like “Our Man in Havana” with multiple personality disorder.
“Hmm, sound like what I was doing just South of the DMZ oh so many years ago. Shitty duty.”
Forty years ago this day arrived at Fort Knox Reception Center for basic training. Boooo. (Yeah.)
Fuck. Fuck. FUCK!
via C&L:
“Truck bomb kills Iraqi schoolchildren
James Hider in Baghdad
April 03, 2007
A NEWBORN baby was one of at least 14 children and adults killed today when a suicide bomber detonated a truck laden with explosives close to a primary school in the northern Iraqi city of Kirkuk.
The latest massacre of Iraqi children came as 21 Shia market workers were ambushed, bound and shot dead north of the capital.
The victims came from the Baghdad market visited the previous day by John McCain, the US presidential candidate, who said that an American security plan in the capital was starting to show signs of progress.
The Kirkuk bloodshed erupted when a bomber driving a truck full of explosives hidden by sacks of flour targeted an Iraqi police station that US soldiers were visiting. The full force of the blast hit a nearby primary school.”
What have we done to that country? How will we ever undo the damage we have wrought? I’d like to blame Bush, Rove, and the neocons, but we all bear responsibility for the hell on earth created in Iraq.
Veritas78 @
45
Nah. Organic compost is good. Lands with that satisfying splat, and leaves the lingering odor of je n’sais quois..
Forty years ago this day arrived at Fort Knox Reception Center for basic training. Boooo. (Yeah.)
Went in at Ft Campbell, 10, Nov 66. My 17th Birthday. As the Boss say, “got in a little home town jam”!
Actually I was at Knox for AIT just about then. Got to Korea in late March. Dang.
Maddy @ 90
Is that the rappin’ of Karl’s knees I hear?
Hugh @
122
Especially since Conyers hasn’t even asked any questions yet! Way to make sure that you clients questioner is pissed off at her before they even start!
Congrats Phoenix Woman!
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/4/4/122921/8438
mc @ 134
How can they justify doing this to each other?
Or just doing it to others?
Steve T. @
40
I don’t think they ever expected anyone to ever be in a position to investigate anything. I think we really caught these folks with their pants down. (An ugly image I know, but then then view is really really ugly)
raven @ 136
Went in at Ft Campbell, 10, Nov 66. My 17th Birthday. As the Boss say, “got in a little home town jam”!
“We were soldiers, once. And young.”
Mrs. K8 @ 132
Yeah Chalabi flunked out as a strong man. He’s still in some Iraqi govt position. No long oil. Thinks it’s making sure country remains debaathified.
The fact that they have to keep recycling Alawi’s name (ex CIA) shows you how much they’re scraping the bottom of the barrel for a strong man. If there were one, he’d be there already.
retirin’ in five @ 142
“We were soldiers, once. And young.”
Cherries. . .fng’s
ell on earth created in Iraq.
How can they justify doing this to each other?
Or just doing it to others?
Religion, of course.
mc@134 – Bush, Rove, and the neocons are to blame. If you want to include more, include their Republican enablers. Everyone else is trying desparately to rid this nation of these people. Saying we’re all to blame lets Bush off the hook yet again.
Lovely. Isn’t he planning to ask her about administering loyalty oaths? Projection, thy name is Republican.
OT to Raven. Though drafted, never left the states. Pure random luck. Hats off to you guys that weren’t so lucky.
SamFromUtah @ 147
makes the head spin
EH @ 121
No it won’t — the Hatch Act is VERY specific as to what is a no-no, and it’s part of the Ethics course Federal employees take every year. That course gives specific examples of what we can and can’t do.
The people involved in this are already known to the Honorable Mr. Waxman, and were stupid enough to do a Powerpoint presentation and the Committee already has a copy of that.
I’m given to understand that it even laid out which House and Senate seats would need the most “help” from GSA. I’m just wondering how many Federal agencies got their own special presentations…
Jane Hamsher @ 9
I’d get them to buy me a beer. Then I’d spend the time telling them how much they kick ass.
Regarding Goodling’s lawyer’s strategy, I’ve been trying to find a definitive version of the adage that starts, “If the facts are on your side, argue the facts. If the law is on your side, argue the law. If neither are on your side….”
But at that point, versions of the adage diverge greatly. I’ve seen,
“…holler.”
“…pound the table.”
“…change the subject and go after the motives of your opponent.”
Not sure which, if any, is definitive, but they all apply to attorney Dowd.
Badwater @ 146
There’s something especially morally corrupt in those who take advantage of a person’s good nature,
which is something we rely on, it’s at the heart of society.
retirin’ in five @ 148
It was all blind ass luck. I got assigned to an Honest John outfit at Lewis when I came home from Korea. Lookin at 18 months in a chicken shit outfit stateside was too much. Three of us payed a guy in post replacement to get INTO an outfit shipping to the Nam. In retrospect that was really smart, huh?
Elliott @ 153
It’s trust.
“The latest massacre of Iraqi children came as 21 Shia market workers were ambushed, bound and shot dead north of the capital.
The victims came from the Baghdad market visited the previous day by John McCain, the US presidential candidate, who said that an American security plan in the capital was starting to show signs of progress.”
What did Larry Johnson say about this on KO last night- wasn’t it that those in the market for McCain’s photo op would be viewed as American agents?
OT to Raven @ 154. I repeat myself — “We were soldiers once. And young.”
For the last decade, I’ve been planning/attending at least a few “arrest” civil disobedience events a year, and working with attorneys and other activists doing the same.
CD is NOT self-expression.
CD is a tool of political intervention. When we do CD, we will (done properly) always get public attention – as will those we target. The art is how we shape that attention.
Touching someone else without their consent is a crime (for demonstrators). Touching someone by throwing objects is another crime. Attempting to touch someone by throwing objects is a crime. Touching a cop by accident is a possible felony. Striking a cop – plainclothes or undercover – with projectiles is a possible felony. And all these charges are “crimes of violence”.
I wasn’t part of the AU demo planning, but he students planned well: no violence.
In the very widespread net of activists in the Global Justice protests of the last decade, the group norm is to exclude anyone who persists in suggesting physical violence (newbies may suggest it – but will also be excluded if they persist). When those once excluded show up again, the affinity groups will continue to exclude those who are known to have advocated physical violence as a component of civil disobedience.
In that setting, our working assumption is that those advocating physical violence are law enforcement or servants thereof.
I’m glad the students were smart.
Rove invented the “thrown objects” story about last night ’cause it framed the encounter to favor him.
Which illustrates the other reason we ban physical violence form CD – the physical aggression sabotages our CD.
conniptionfit @ 135
John Casper @
131
Bill the Butcher (and sorry for the five-corner’s ref. I have a goofy memory. I realize it’s five Points.)
Marie Roget @ 156
Chilling.
Marie Roget @ 156
He stated that they would be considered collaborators — which means their own side may have offed them as a security measure.
retirin’ in five @ 157
Don’t worry about topic, they are used to me babblin on and hardly ever tell me to STFU!
raven @ 126
I suppose it depends which DMZ we’re talking about, the one in South Korea or the one between North and South Vietnam. South Korea’s, knock on wood, has worked quite well for more than 50 years.
Even so the situations are not analogous, our current presence in Iraq is destabilizing both that country and the region. No US presence in the region would probably be even more destabilizing because our absence would create an enormous power vacuum. The policy goal of a saner Administration would be how to keep a presence in the area and have it be stabilizing.
Brisingamen @ 150
Yes. And from the questioning directed to Lovely Lurita, it appears that they not only received training on the Hatch Act, they also had to sign off on documents stating they understood and were responsible for the material in the training.
Not that these people care about their own signatures on paper, swearing they will do the right thing. The cult believes that lying for Dear Leader is a righteous act.
it’s not all about religion at all. It is about much more and we instigated it and nurtured it. There has been not much said about the death squads that we have backed….. I really would encourage people not to buy the MSM and WH spin about “sectarian” and “religious violence”– it obfuscates our own starring role in this disaster and slows down our quest for truth, imho.
angie @ 165
raven @ 145
ell on earth created in Iraq.
———–
How can they justify doing this to each other?
Or just doing it to others?
———–
Religion, of course.
———–
it’s not all about religion at all. It is about much more and we instigated it and nurtured it. There has been not much said about the death squads that we have backed….. I really would encourage people not to buy the MSM and WH spin about “sectarian” and “religious violence”– it obfuscates our own starring role in this disaster and slows down our quest for truth, imho.
Yes, our hands are very bloody, too.
ralphbon @ 152
I believe it’s “charge by the hour.”
Late last night I heard the “pelting” story about AU students, and also heard that no arrests were made.
That second bit of the story convinced me that the first part couldn’t possibly be true.
Okay Raven — but still, apologies OT.
Had orders cut for Nam during sixth week of combat engineer AIT at Ft. Leonard Wood. Falling out for additional training after supper with M-16, Nam orientation, etc. At the last karmic god-damned minute, got sent to three weeks additional school after AIT. Followed by assignment to Ft. Belvoir Va for the balance of my two years. Had to sweat coming down on levy until first year completed. Many of my friends got caught up in levy’s during that time.
I suppose it depends which DMZ we’re talking about, the one in South Korea or the one between North and South Vietnam. South Korea’s, knock on wood, has worked quite well for more than 50 years.
Even so the situations are not analogous, our current presence in Iraq is destabilizing both that country and the region. No US presence in the region would probably be even more destabilizing because our absence would create an enormous power vacuum. The policy goal of a saner Administration would be how to keep a presence in the area and have it be stabilizing.
Well, I’ll tell you this. When 30 North Korean Commando’s came across the Z on Jan 31, 1968 (date sound familiar, can you say Tet) after they had already taken the Pueblo it didn’t seem like it was working all that well. But what do I know, I was a punk kid.
There is a rumor that Nancy Pelosi has something to do with the release of the 15 sailors, since she was there when the Syrians allegedly urged Iran to release them.
ralphbon @
110
Hate to say it, but these guys are good.
There really is reason to worry if the Fifth is unavailable for innocent people–and McCarthy is that reason.
Curious–it really appears she’s not shopping for immunity, she’s serving as a firewall. We’ll see what happens when Schumer proves his case that she was administering loytalty oaths. She might not eb indicted for perjury, but that’s not the only possible route to bring her in.
tommy yum @ 166
You guys are killing me here. LOL
Jacqrat @ 160
Jacqrat, I just appreciated the reference to Bill the Butcher. I had forgotten it.
new thread upstairs…
Sounds as though Dowd is calling McNulty a liar, though…
retirin’ in five @ 169
You stepped across the line and raised your hand. Hell of a lot more than most people ever do, especially now.
Ps
That’s how they get me, New Thread. I loves me some FDL!
Mrs. K8 @132
he’s Deputy Prime Minister of Iraq, and was Oil Minister until last January (despite the fact that he garnered less than 1/2% of the vote for his INC shill party at Chimpy’s Purple Thumb democratic elections.
[har! the idea of Bush running a legitimate election in Iraq, or anywhere for that matter, just cracks me up every time.]
p.s. he was also behind the “Curveball” intell on Niger Yellowcake, and we all know where that led.
raven @ 169
Well, that’s my point. Stability is not about perfection. It’s about balancing competing forces so the whole thing doesn’t blow up. Incidents are better than wars.
Mrs. K8 @ 164
Mrs. K8, the agency I work for keeps those training modules up year round, so that any employee can go in and refresh their memory at any time.
Now, if they did a presentation to HHS, word hasn’t reached me, but maybe they only trolled the HQ of each agency?
Hugh @ 179
One man’s incident is another man’s war but I hear you
The DMZ War
emptywheel @ 172
Hate to say it, but these guys are good.
There really is reason to worry if the Fifth is unavailable for innocent people–and McCarthy is that reason.
Curious–it really appears she’s not shopping for immunity, she’s serving as a firewall. We’ll see what happens when Schumer proves his case that she was administering loyalty oaths. She might not eb indicted for perjury, but that’s not the only possible route to bring her in.
That’s nice to hear, extra nice when its emptywheel we’re hearing.
LS @ 171
Wow! Link?
Elliott @ 153
Perhaps I shouldn’t use the royal “we” when expressing my anger. What I mean to say is I should have done more to counter the run-up to the war when I KNEW it was coming. More letters to the editor, more calls to my Reps and Senators, more loudly voiced my opposition.
But, as a country we bear responsibility for how “we” behave in the international arena. In my view, that doesn’t let Bush and the neo cons off the hook, though. I think we can take responsibilty for our country’s leaders’ actions while still opposing them.
A returned Peace Corps Volunteer once told me that he justified teaching English (the imperialist’s tongue) to his host country counterparts, “so they can say ‘no’ to the U.S. government.”
angie @ 176
Maybe. Maybe they’ve just gotten their story straight. And McNulty will back off of his, and this little scandal will all go away.
Brisingamen @ 180
At Lurita Doan’s agency, GSA, the powerpoint presentation was specifically for employees who were political appointees.
Not that being a political appointee exempts you in any way from the Hatch Act, as I’m sure you’re aware. They just presumed they were preaching to the Loyal Bushie Choir.
Which makes it actually even more interesting that somebody ratted out Lurita & Bushco Inc. to Congress, no?
Not all the Bushbots are thorough Bushbots, eh? How many loyalty oaths will they have to administer? LOL.
When Karl Rove – and others at Team Rove’s White House franchise – prepares and delivers these partisan programs, he uses Secret Service and other US Govt resources. Who foots the bill? And who audits the accounting to confirm that the RNC or whomever has reimbursed the US Govt in cash? Does that include reimbursement for the pro rata time Karl is not earning his taxpayer paid one hundred sixty-one thousand buckaroos?
EW @ 172
I thought she was going for immunity, but, as you have pointed out, maybe not. One cannot underestimate the power of the fundementalist propaganda that has been absorbed by the followers. *sigh*
For the last decade, I’ve been planning/attending at least a few “arrest” civil disobedience events a year, and working with attorneys and other activists doing the same.
CD is NOT self-expression.
CD is a tool of political intervention.
When we do CD, we will (done properly) always get public attention – as will those we target. The art is how we shape that attention.
Touching someone else without their consent is a crime (for demonstrators). Touching someone by throwing objects is another crime. Attempting to touch someone by throwing objects is a crime. Touching a cop by accident is a possible felony. Striking a cop – plainclothes or undercover – with projectiles is a possible felony. And all these charges are “crimes of violence”.
I wasn’t part of the AU demo planning, but he students planned well: no violence.
In the very widespread net of activists in the Global Justice protests of the last decade, the group norm is to exclude anyone who persists in suggesting physical violence (newbies may suggest it – but will also be excluded if they persist). When those once excluded show up again, the affinity groups will continue to exclude those who are known to have advocated physical violence as a component of civil disobedience.
In that setting, our working assumption is that those advocating physical violence are law enforcement or servants thereof.
I’m glad the students were smart.
Rove invented the “thrown objects” story about last night ’cause it framed the encounter to favor him.
Which illustrates the other reason we ban physical violence from CD – the physical aggression sabotages our CD.
conniptionfit @ 135
In light of the bloodshed today, this is why McCain & Co. should have opted for a ridearound w/U.S. troops instead of the market visit. Last night’s KO w/Larry Johnson commenting:
OLBERMANN: This particular market, Ashorja (ph), has been previously the scene of terrible bloodshed. They had more than 60 deaths in two car bombings in February, and a roadside attack as well. One of the merchants told reporters that visits like this, trying to show that things are safe, actually wind up making things worse. Is that, is that jibe with your experience?
JOHNSON: Yes, that‘s absolutely correct, because what happens here is that the merchants who were seen selling the rugs, they‘re assumed to be collaborators, that somehow they‘re cooperating with the Americans. And it puts them in a very difficult situation. It would have been one thing if there were actually Iraqi troops there interacting with those Iraqi merchants. Then they might not be under that suspicion of being American agents.
kdh22 @ 188
I don’t (and didn’t, when I first suggested this) think it’s a matter of blind faith. I think they’ve calculated that the best way to squelch this is to have the key person, Monica, refuse to testify. While there is plenty of circumstantial evidence that the firings were political, they won’t tie it back to Rove and Miers without Monica, I bet, at least not directly. Now, as I’ve said, it sounds like some people have testified that Monica was issues loyalty oaths, which may bring her down. BUt I suspect someone may have calculated that ehs would make a good firewall and has made it worthwhile
Mrs. K8 @ 186
(Grin) Goes back to an earlier statement I made, “don’t tick off the hired help.”
If the attitude of General Schedule Federal employees at a course I took two weeks after Katrina is any indicator, I’m guessing a goodly number. Even the instructor was aware of the smoldering anger in that room.
emptywheel @ 191
I need to read her attys ltr of today. back later. I might have questions. I love your insight!
mc @ 184
I sure can’t argue with a word you say.
Marcy if you’re still around…
Did you notice any connection among the cases that Dowd cited in his letter to Conyers and Sanchez? Do you know of any other cases that may contradict those cited? Or any others that may in some small way rebuke the cited cases? CHS, any help here?
If you look at page 4 of the letter from Monica’s lawyer it looks like he may be positioning for immunity after all. I just wonder why he would do so so publicly.
You guys got punked, Coptix had a marketing idea and you rubes fell for it hook line and sinker. They admitted they photoshopped a picture with their logo on a folder. Even put a screen cap from land of the lost on the T.V. behind Rove. Of course the comments on that one are closed because it was a spectacle of mouth breathing conspiracy theories and when she realized she’d been had she closed the comments section. Apparently afraid of an opposing view. Aww, that’s allright, keep trying guys you’ll get him eventually. Oh, by the way, DiFi resigned her comittee from Milcon because she sent about a billion worth in no bids to her husbands companies. Oh well. Never mind, nothing to see. Please return to your KKKarkl Rove dartboards and conspiracy theories. Have a nice day.
A citizen’s arrest is all well and good, but the para-constitutional exigencies call for extraordinary rendition. I’ll show you a cellar you can use as a safehouse–it’s soundproofed!
You guys got punked, Coptix had a marketing idea and you rubes fell for it hook line and sinker. They admitted they photoshopped a picture with their logo on a folder.
Actually, I just took it to be mean’t as ‘A Clue’!!!!