Plame on!

OMG! I got a zed!

natalie!

JUSTICE!

I am sorry for Valerie, but hopeful that her sacrifice will be one of the camel’s noses under the tent of R corruption.

What was the result of the CIA damage assessment regarding the treasonous outing of Plame?

Specifically: Were any US or foreign agents or contacts killed? What was the dollar cost of doing a damage assessment? What was the dollar cost of the setback in time and manpower in replacing the Plame function? Has the capability to track WMDs post-Plame been restored at least to its levels pre-Plame outing?

Republican: the anti-intelligence party.

In any other time, or USA, it would be treason.
Why is this time different? Have we become generally more scared? scared enough to let an idiot run things like a child? Scared enough to have elected representatives that are still on their knees servicing the king?

and Obama, what a disappointment. Telling bushwa to veto the bill and we will give you what you want? that is treason as well. I am disgusted. does no one represent us?

For Jane:

With much love.

the AIPs, led by a chimp.

(don’t know how to edit my comment at #7)

oldtree @ 8

In any other time, or USA, it would be treason.
Why is this time different? Have we become generally more scared? scared enough to let an idiot run things like a child? Scared enough to have elected representatives that are still on their knees servicing the king?

and Obama, what a disappointment. Telling bushwa to veto the bill and we will give you what you want? that is treason as well. I am disgusted. does no one represent us?

I heard or saw the Obama statement too, but haven’t seen a link.

albert fall at 6 — No one on the outside is ever going to know the answers to those questions. At least, not for a very long time, I’d say. I know that Larry Johnson has said there was damage in things he has written, but he cannot be specific about what, if anything, happened, because of the need to protect assets that may have been involved. Every person who has spoken to Valerie or any of her CIA cohorts when they were in the field is suspect — even if it was a baggage handler at a hotel or a taxi driver. Every single one of these people — and their families — will have been checked out by foreign governments. And that is just for starters. Read the Bukowsky piece for a taste of what could have happened — but we cannot know for sure because none of us has the clearance AND the “need to know” to hear the information.

Sharon @ 7

Republican: the anti-intelligence party.

R–the no intelligence party.

Now I feel I ought to make a substantive comment. Did anybody else catch the NYT editorial this weekend about Rove? It was surprisingly blunt–all roads lead to Rove. He’s the spider at the center of all the webs, and it’s time for him to go.

It’s about frakkin’ time. Is there some sort of five-year delay the MSM is on lest they hear something…unpleasant?

There’s still more to come on this case. Waxman’s still holding hearings, and Scooter has yet to be sentenced. Does anyone know how sentencing hearings work? Are they open to the public? Can they be televised? Because that’s when the next big “boom” is going to come out in this story. Waxman has noticed that Fitz is already loaded for bear, and his hearings so far have been a way of saying, “Bear? No, no. Here, take my elephant gun instead.”

That is how I feel about Matthew Dowd’s change of heart. I am not ready to make nice.

When he works his butt of like David Brock I will look at him differently, but until that he is just a guy who helped up get into, stay into this evil war and didn’t care about the Iraqi’s and the Americans paying the price. However ONCE his son was on his way suddenly the war looked differently. Disgusting.

I have a son – I can’t imagine sending him off to war. I don’t mean to be cold about Dowd’s – but I hope if I was ever in a position of power I would do my best to keep all men from having to go fight in such an horrific war – not just my own.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 12

albert fal at 6 — No one on the outside is ever going to know the answers to those questions. At least, not for a very long time, I’d say. I know that Larry Johnson has said there was damage in things he has written, but he cannot be specific about what, if anything, happened, because of the need to protect assets that may have been involved. Every person who has spoken to Valerie or any of her CIA cohorts when they were in the field is suspect — even if it was a baggage handler at a hotel or a taxi driver. Every single one of these people — and their families — will have been checked out by foreign governments. And that is just for starters. Read the Bukowsky piece for a taste of what could have happened — but we cannot know for sure because none of us has the clearance AND the “need to know” to hear the information.

Even if we won’t be able to know the answer, we should keep asking the question. The question puts one of the central issues in the spotlight.

oldtree @ 7

In any other time, or USA, it would be treason.
Why is this time different? Have we become generally more scared? scared enough to let an idiot run things like a child? Scared enough to have elected representatives that are still on their knees servicing the king?

Same reason they didn’t prosecute Jane Fonda for treason, we are not at war.

I have been asking this question since this whole incident started.

Who first requested the information about Mrs. Wilson? And who gave the NOC information to anyone in the executive branch?

I know these seems so basic, but was it a fishing expedition to find out what… like… get me everything on Wilson and let’s see what skeletons he has so we can trash him in the press? O lookie here… it says Mrs W is in the CIA… How can we use that?

I know the story goes on about who said what when etc. But how did the entire thing start? If her status was classified, who were the people who had access to this information and where is that information “kept”? … a CIA file? Who conveyed the file to who? And why would the CIA pass this information to the executive… for what purpose? Just because they asked? Just like that?

Seems to me it would be a great idea for Michael Hayden to start stressing this point, publicly and pointedly. When the leader of an organization sticks up for his peeps, it does a lot for morale. I realize he probably doesn’t want to pick a fight with the White House, but at some point you have to stand for institutional integrity, and it starts with the people who work for you.

Frank Probst @
15

There’s still more to come on this case. Waxman’s still holding hearings, and Scooter has yet to be sentenced. Does anyone know how sentencing hearings work? Are they open to the public? Can they be televised? Because that’s when the next big “boom” is going to come out in this story. Waxman has noticed that Fitz is already loaded for bear, and his hearings so far have been a way of saying, “Bear? No, no. Here, take my elephant gun instead.”

I’m just hoping it will happen with time enough to actually do some kind of impeachment hearing or criminal trial. That this case has not already gone so far as to get several indictments is, well, troubling, to say the least.

I’m still going for 6(e)(3)(D).
Treason.

BushCo betrayed a CIA operative in an effort to maintain the lies leading to the war in Iraq, instead of focusing on the War on Terror and Al-Qaeda, specifically in Afghanistan and the northwestern border area of Pakistan. Now see what is happening:

WASHINGTON, April 1 — As Al Qaeda rebuilds in Pakistan’s tribal areas, a new generation of leaders has emerged under Osama bin Laden to cement control over the network’s operations, according to American intelligence and counterterrorism officials.

Leaders in a Resurgent Al Qaeda The new leaders rose from within the organization after the death or capture of the operatives that built Al Qaeda before the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, leading to surprise and dismay within United States intelligence agencies about the group’s ability to rebound from an American-led offensive.

It has been known that American officials were focusing on a band of Al Qaeda training camps in Pakistan’s remote mountains, but a clearer picture is emerging about those who are running the camps and thought to be involved in plotting attacks.

(snip)

[Modnote: to end a blockquote please remember the “/” thanks]

mmr @ 21

I’m just hoping it will happen with time enough to actually do some kind of impeachment hearing or criminal trial. That this case has not already gone so far as to get several indictments is, well, troubling, to say the least.

A criminal trial should still be held even if the criminals are no longer in office. These people must be held accountable for the devastation they have wrought.

Bush and Cheney and Rove will continue to throw people under the bus and use American troops as human shields for their pressers until the day they leave the Whitehouse, voluntarily or kicking and screaming.

They have not a shred of honor or decency in their courrupt hearts.

For them, to destroy honorable civil servants is as easy as stepping on a gnat.

-GSD

Scarecrow

Obama says Congress Will Fund Iraq War After Expected Veto by President Bush

Apropos not ready to make nice: that Dixie Chicks movie is excellent – don’t know its exact title – really touching. (although country is not my preferred music).

The public will revile the Repubs for this only if all the facts come out. The Repubs are still in total spin mode (as witness Vicky Toesuck showed) which makes the truth more difficult to penetrate hearts of Americans and the feeble minds of the MSM.

I’m unsure about the Dem strategy here. They should be 100% in attack mode here whenever a microphone is stuck in their face. Facts, history, and American traditions are all on their side. But Dems are still soft-pedaling the issue. My guess is that Waxman & Co. have decided that the drip-drip-drip of facts from is hearings will serve the same purpose.

I hope he is correct, but I have doubts. The landscape has changed dramatically since Watergate where the MSM of the 1970s reported facts. The MSM of the 21st century reports Repub spin only.

egr–there was an obit in the paper here for Dr. N’s mother. Do not know if you know him or want this info.

This was discussed a bit in an earlier thread, but do we know one way or another whether Fitzgerald knew of and/or subpoenaed WH emails to/from Rove/Libby/1×2×6/whoever that were transmitted over the parallel, RNC-based system?

And if not yet, why not now?

Late yesterday Bradblog had this:

UPDATE 11:13pm PT: In comments here, “Truth” posts a CNN interview with Wolf Blitzer as proof that Obama never said what AP has charged him with saying. As mentioned above, I wouldn’t put anything past AP these days. That said, it seems that was not the interview AP was quoting from with Obama. Over at dKos, Markos was similarly outraged about Obama’s comments this morning, apparently, saying that “Obama just surrendered to Bush” and excoriating his negotiation skills as we did. Kos has now followed up the original post with another pointing out that there are two different interviews in question. One with CNN and one with AP. I’ll refer you to Kos’s newer post, for now, on the difference between the two and the Obama campaign’s apparent lack of effort to correct the AP story if, in fact, it was wrong.

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=4352

(links to Kos available in the original at the link above)

The more we find out about Bush and his minions, the more I come to think that the U.S. is a long way down the road to becoming the old Soviet Union.

GSD @ 25

Bush and Cheney and Rove will continue to throw people under the bus and use American troops as human shields for their pressers until the day they leave the Whitehouse, voluntarily or kicking and screaming.

They have not a shred of honor or decency in their courrupt hearts.

For them, to destroy honorable civil servants is as easy as stepping on a gnat.

-GSD

You’re clearly right. Take the minion Sampson, with a sieve-like memory, so cavalierly “aggragating” names, little caring the effect on untold numbers of lives.

Mod @ 23:

My bad. Thanks.

Christy Hardin Smith @
12

albert fall at 6 — No one on the outside is ever going to know the answers to those questions. At least, not for a very long time, I’d say. I know that Larry Johnson has said there was damage in things he has written, but he cannot be specific about what, if anything, happened, because of the need to protect assets that may have been involved. Every person who has spoken to Valerie or any of her CIA cohorts when they were in the field is suspect — even if it was a baggage handler at a hotel or a taxi driver. Every single one of these people — and their families — will have been checked out by foreign governments. And that is just for starters. Read the Bukowsky piece for a taste of what could have happened — but we cannot know for sure because none of us has the clearance AND the “need to know” to hear the information.

Remember Schmall’s testimony.

F What was said about Novak article.

S Invited to offer opinion about leak

F Did you know Plame

S No

F Have you ever met her?

S No

F Had no idea about damage caused by her being named.

S Noted that the press and pundits talking about Valerie Wilson and her career, People were saying this was no big deal. I thought there was very grave danger to leaking name of CIA officer. Now that Valerie Wilson’s name in press foreign intell in countries she worked have an opportunity to investigation all the people she worked with can be harrassed, lose their jobs, arrested, tortured, or killed .

F did anyone say anything in response?

S No

CHS @ 12

Agreed that disclosure of the damage assessment is unlikely.

However, does anyone doubt that if the assessment had been that there was no problem, Bush would have released it in a heartbeat?

The fact that it remains under wraps demonstrates that damage was done.

Even a broad description of the damage assessment (we lost X man-months of intelligence; it will cost Y dollars to reconstitute the program) would help drive that point home—Rove et. al. damaged national security in pursuit of a political payback.

bg—I think I’ll be meeting him in a month. If you have a link or just info that would be nice.

Thank you!

kirk murphy @
68

RT, I very much regret that you or anyone was told off for EPUing. I can’t understand anyone’s reson for doing that, and I apologize you were treated that way.

Over the last year, the Lake has made a deliberate effort to let “epu’d” threads know a new thread had started. [This began when those unknowingly “left” on an epu’d thread asked to me informed of new threads.]

I do see commenters observing a new thread has started and invited folks “up”.

When this happens, I sure hope it doen’t send the message that sharing on EPU’s threads is somehow not OK.

I do admit I’m not neutral hers – I like being able topost comments on epu’d threads. With comments as wordy a smine can be, I fear putting them on current thread would be rude – too much text!

Thanks for letting folks know of your experience – hope you might consider stayin about and continuing to play inou public policy discussions.

Kirk – thanks, I appreciate. But there’s just a lot about this place I don’t ‘get.’ For instance, I can’t respond to you in yesterday afternoon’s thread, which is less than 18 hours old. And why would it matter to people that there’s a new thread started if they wanted to address the points raised in the old one? And why can’t they find out there’s a new thread by refreshing the main page, like I just did?

And what does ‘EPU’ stand for, anyway?

You can’t impeach Rove, can you? Because as powerful as Bush/Cheney are, I doubt they could fire Rove if they wanted to. Let’s just impeach all of them. It’s not like Cheney didn’t tell Libby to out Plame.

Christy Hardin Smith @
12

albert fall at 6 — No one on the outside is ever going to know the answers to those questions. At least, not for a very long time, I’d say. I know that Larry Johnson has said there was damage in things he has written, but he cannot be specific about what, if anything, happened, because of the need to protect assets that may have been involved. Every person who has spoken to Valerie or any of her CIA cohorts when they were in the field is suspect — even if it was a baggage handler at a hotel or a taxi driver. Every single one of these people — and their families — will have been checked out by foreign governments. And that is just for starters. Read the Bukowsky piece for a taste of what could have happened — but we cannot know for sure because none of us has the clearance AND the “need to know” to hear the information.

Christy, I know I asked this yesterday, but wouldn’t one way to get at least some idea be to check the CIA Memorial for any new stars added since the outing?

My $.02

for anyone who missed it – Bill Maher on Valerie Plame

I am not a big Maher fan – but he hits all the right notes on this one :)

Treasonable Doubt

mmr @ 21: There have already been 5 felony indictments and 4 felony convictions.

Ya’ know, I kinda get the feeling that the Waxman hearing was just a way the Democrats found for Valerie to speak her mind before she was expected to fade away into obscurity. Waxman asked Josh Bolton for details of the WH investigation of the leak but he didn’t ask for a specific deadline for the results to be presented, unlike his other requests to Bolton. I don’t know what’s going on here but I’m not sure I like what I see.

But how did the entire thing start? If her status was classified, who were the people who had access to this information and where is that information “kept”? … a CIA file? Who conveyed the file to who? And why would the CIA pass this information to the executive… for what purpose? Just because they asked? Just like that?

Sadly, yes. Just like that.

Only the rat bastard Cheney would have sufficient knowledge of CIA’s plumbing to acquire NOC bios.

His Langley contact is probably still feeding him stuff.

More Repub spin from Weisman at WaPo…
“Democratic leaders appear to believe there is hardly any territory they cannot stray onto, a development that has Republican political operatives gleeful and some Democrats worried. Rep. Tom Cole (Okla.), chairman of the National Republican Congressional Committee, warned of a “political price” at the polls: “If they let their constituents and their ideology drive them past the point where the American people are comfortable, they will find how quickly the voters will react.”

What utter bullshit!! The American people already reacted by giving Dems a 7 million vote majority in the ‘06 elections — double the margin by which Shrub beat Kerry (if the count was honest). We want the dictatorship to stop! We want the war to stop! We want our rights restored! There “is hardly any territory” that this administration didn’t completely screw up! Weisman, go Cheney yourself!!!

I believe John Prine has resurrected a few of his songs from the ’60s and ’70s. Especially “Flag Decal”.

“Well, your Flag Decal won’t get you into heaven anymore
It’s already overcrowded by your dity little war”.

Frank Probst @ 15

… Waxman’s still holding hearings, and Scooter has yet to be sentenced. …

Please consider taking the time to write to Judge Walton. I sent this via the USSnail. The salutation and physical address is the correct one, from that previous FDL thread at
http://www.firedoglake.com/index.php?s=reggie .

If you follow suit, please put the “In Re:”… on the bottom of the envelope too, to facilitate the sorting of the Judge’s mail.

Judge Reggie B. Walton
United States District Court for the District of Columbia
E. Barrett Prettyman United States Courthouse
333 Constitution Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20001

In Re: Sentencing of I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby Jr.

April 1, 2007

Dear Judge Walton,

I am just an American Citizen with no other relationship to my Government or anyone in it. I feel it is my patriotic duty to express an opinion in this matter.

Libby was convicted of obstruction of justice in an extraordinarily important case, one involving the probable treason (as I see it; legal definitions aside) of exposing a covert CIA operative and her network, for the purposes of political revenge. If he or anyone were to have been convicted of the latter crime, a judge would probably be mulling the death penalty.

For obstructing the probe into that heinous crime (which MUST have been committed by someone) I say that he should receive the heaviest possible sentence, irrespective of prior record or previous position.

Thank you for your consideration of my views.

Very truly yours,

sonate @ 45

More Repub spin from Weisman at WaPo…
“Democratic leaders appear to believe there is hardly any territory they cannot stray onto, a development that has Republican political operatives gleeful and some Democrats worried. Rep. Tom Cole (Okla.), chairman of the National Republican Congressional Committee, warned of a “political price” at the polls: “If they let their constituents and their ideology drive them past the point where the American people are comfortable, they will find how quickly the voters will react.”

What utter bullshit!! The American people already reacted by giving Dems a 7 million vote majority in the ‘06 elections — double the margin by which Shrub beat Kerry (if the count was honest). We want the dictatorship to stop! We want the war to stop! We want our rights restored! There “is hardly any territory” that this administration didn’t completely screw up! Weisman, go Cheney yourself!!!

It’s called projection, and the GOP are its past masters.

Christy -

Of all the things Ms. Plame said during her testimony, this statement…

“We in the CIA always know that we might be exposed and threatened by foreign enemies,” Plame said. “It was a terrible irony that administration officials were the ones who destroyed my cover.”

…is the one that most felt like being hit up ’side the head w/a baseball bat.

We may not live to see it but, if there is a hell, the “accountability and consequences” *will* be there. And it couldn’t happen to a more deserving bunch of non-humans.

OT, but in keeping with the general theme of disgust over the antics of the current maladministration.

Apparently, the otherwise inexplicable way the Hicks case played out at Gitmo last week was the result of a deal between Cheney and Australian PM Howard, who is facing an election soon and has been getting killed in the Australian media for years over this thing. Said deal implemented by the convening authority for military commissions, with the prosecutors assigned to the case left completely in the dark.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlan…..ey_ho.html

I would have thought that if these people had one principle, it would be that they don’t cut sweetheart deals with alleged terra-ists. So much for that. Politics really is the only thing that matters.

RT-
EPU= Evil Parallel Universe

FDL newbies can go to urban dictionary.com for definitions of FDL shorthands.

Digby has a good piece about Republican oppo research and how so many of the newly appointed Justice flacks and hacks were members of the Bush Bullet Battalion used to cultivate and fire opposition artillery at political opponants.

The reason why Red Faced Adulterer Dan Burton was douchey during the recent Waxman hearing is because Barbara Comstock was one of his top hatchet girls for a long time.

Incest is best with this crowd.

-GSD

portia @ 43-
Waxman is doing a brilliant job. Maybe he’s planning things out so that Bush cannot pardon the criminals.

Christy: That’s right, lady. Give no quarter.

Zealously apply ideological boot to right-wing buttocks at regular intervals until they finally get the point. From what I’ve seen thus far (see McCain/Graham reports from Baghdad), they’re gonna need a whoooole lotta cock-roach stomper applications to the posterior before seeing the light.

burnspbesq @ 50

OT, but in keeping with the general theme of disgust over the antics of the current maladministration.

Apparently, the otherwise inexplicable way the Hicks case played out at Gitmo last week was the result of a deal between Cheney and Australian PM Howard, who is facing an election soon and has been getting killed in the Australian media for years over this thing. Said deal implemented by the convening authority for military commissions, with the prosecutors assigned to the case left completely in the dark.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlan…..ey_ho.html

I would have thought that if these people had one principle, it would be that they don’t cut sweetheart deals with alleged terra-ists. So much for that. Politics really is the only thing that matters.

It explains one thing, though…how the hell, after all the illegal incarceration, torture, and denial of rights, one of the (allegedly) most dangerous people in the whole wide world can only get a 9-month sentence.

From that wapo article:
Rep. Jack Kingston (R-Ga.). “The Democrats’ honeymoon is fixing to end. It’s going to explode like an IED.”

Made me vomit a little in my mouth, not in a good way either.

Terry Olson @ 53

portia @ 43-
Waxman is doing a brilliant job. Maybe he’s planning things out so that Bush cannot pardon the criminals.

Especially when the one doing the pardoning is a criminal too.
IIRC, it worked out for a KY Governor to pardon his entire administration.
That should not have stood.

egr, sorry cannot post at your place. link

Anyone else curious why the administration was not able to plant WMD’s in Iraq? And then “discover” them to prove their case. I haven’t seen this question asked or speculated about much.

I’ve always wondered if one reason was that Brewster Jennings was very effective at what they did — i.e. interdicting the flow of weapons and materiel into Iraq.

bg, Thanks for the link. I’ll take it from your comment. Much appreciated.

dakine01 @ 46

I believe John Prine has resurrected a few of his songs from the ’60s and ’70s. Especially “Flag Decal”.

“Well, your Flag Decal won’t get you into heaven anymore
It’s already overcrowded by your dity little war”.

Prine- what a master. He’s still doing concerts despite having had throat cancer some yrs. back:

Flag Decal- Philly Folk Fest ‘04

The media is parroting the mythical backlash in regards to alleged Democratic overreach.

The backlash that supposedly damaged the Republicans so severely during the Clinton impeachment.

The backlash that kept them in power in congress from 1994 to 2006 and allowed them to game 2000 and squeak by in 2004.

Ah that backlash…those Dems had better step lightly.

-GSD

burnspbesq @ 50

OT, but in keeping with the general theme of disgust over the antics of the current maladministration.

Apparently, the otherwise inexplicable way the Hicks case played out at Gitmo last week was the result of a deal between Cheney and Australian PM Howard, who is facing an election soon and has been getting killed in the Australian media for years over this thing. Said deal implemented by the convening authority for military commissions, with the prosecutors assigned to the case left completely in the dark.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlan…..ey_ho.html

I would have thought that if these people had one principle, it would be that they don’t cut sweetheart deals with alleged terra-ists. So much for that. Politics really is the only thing that matters.

Would someone plz do a post on that so we can discuss it?

As Rep. Paul Hodes pointed out so clearly during the hearing, one inadvertent statement might be a mistake, two or three might be sloppiness, but twenty or more directed slips of the tongue exposing a CIA NOC indicates a concerted effort on the part of a whole lot of folks.

And calling a CIA NOC “fair game” is . . .

smapdi @ 57

From that wapo article:
Rep. Jack Kingston (R-Ga.). “The Democrats’ honeymoon is fixing to end. It’s going to explode like an IED.”

Made me vomit a little in my mouth, not in a good way either.

Yadda, yadda, yadda. The House GOP doesn’t have the votes to turn up the AC in there, and they know it.

Great work, Christy.

I don’t use the term treason lightly – for fifty years, the Republican goon sqaud “enforcers” hired themselves to the megacorps and used that term to smear anyone working for social justice in defiance of corproate greed.

But the outing of a covert CIA agent for inside the Beltway revenge – in furtherance to a conspiracy to preovide false testimony to Congress – is indeed treason.

I look forward to seeing that term necklaced around every GOP operative, talking head, and GOP-owned “reporter” who carries the Rethugs’ big lie campaign against Valerie Plame and Joe Wilson.

oregondave @ 60

Anyone else curious why the administration was not able to plant WMD’s in Iraq? And then “discover” them to prove their case. I haven’t seen this question asked or speculated about much.

I’ve always wondered if one reason was that Brewster Jennings was very effective at what they did — i.e. interdicting the flow of weapons and materiel into Iraq.

I’ve wondered about that a lot.

oldtree @ 8

In any other time, or USA, it would be treason.

No more than selling arms to a rogue state in order to finance a secret war, in express violation of a law specifically passed to prohibit such activity…Another ‘neat idea’.

More on the Hicks deal, from today’s Sydney Morning Herald.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/wor…..80767.html

Wow. This is stinky, even by the standards of the current regime.

ECah,

That is one of my prime reasons to vote against the grand 9/11 conspiracy. Had they been crafty enough to devise that attack, they would have been crafty enough to have pkanted WMD’s.

They simply believed that they would find somthing…old artillery, blueprints, etc….Which is why their spinners trumpeted every little widget that was buried in some scientists rose garden.

They figured the frenzy and fanfare for their great victory would be enough to carry them through any problems.

They didn’t figure on a five year occupation with thousands of US dead.

-GSD

Everything old seems new again when it comes to protest music from the Vietnam era. Sadly, Phil Ochs is no longer w/us, but great vids still show up on youtube using his songs (explicit war photos advisory):

One More Parade- Phil Ochs

Thanks Christy for keeping the spotlight on this critical issue.

To think that a person robbing a corner grocery store will do more prison time than any of the traitors who outed Plame will ever even have to consider is absolutely absurd. Fleisher, Libby, Rove, Cheney, Robert Novak etc. should be tried as traitors to our nation. They have undermined National Security. Instead they run free, Rove and Cheney have National Security clearance
and millions have died and been injured due to the unending lies that have come out of this corrupt administration.

Why does anyone wonder why there is a crisis in confidence that permeates Americans attitudes towards our elected and selected (Bush) officials. We witnessed a Republican controlled congress hold a President accountable for lying about a B J under oath. Yet that predominately same Republican controlled congress allowed the Bush administration to destroy any integrity that this nation was clinging to by being a rubber stamp for the corruption. The Democrats and “some” Republicans seem to be stepping up to the plate, let’s hope it’s not too late.

It is too late for the dead and injured Iraqi people and 3200 dead American soldiers and 50,ooo injured.

These guys are war criminals and traitors to our National Security. They should be treated accordingly.

Does anyone know what the status of the investigation into the effects that Plames outing had on other agents and intelligence recovery capabilities around the world?
What ever happenned to that investigation? Will there be a report?

Some oaths of office are a statement of loyalty to a constitution or other legal text or to a person or other office-holder (e.g., an oath to support the constitution of the state, or of loyalty to the king). Under the laws of a state it may be considered treason or a high crime to betray a sworn oath of office.

Bustednuckles @ 58

Terry Olson @ 53

portia @ 43-
Waxman is doing a brilliant job. Maybe he’s planning things out so that Bush cannot pardon the criminals.

Especially when the one doing the pardoning is a criminal too.
IIRC, it worked out for a KY Governor to pardon his entire administration.
That should not have stood.

You remember correctly. He pardoned everyone inovlved in a Merit System (KY version of civil service) EXCEPT for himself. He wound up indicted for his actions then got his pet judges to decalre he couldn’t be tried while in office as he was too busy. State AG (dem) wound up settling without admisison of guilt other than admission that wrong had been done. Fletcher is trying to paint himself as victim now but will most likely lose in R primary to Ann Northup R, McConnell (she lost her congressional seat to John Yarmouth).

EvilDrPuma @ 66

“The Democrats’ honeymoon is fixing to end. It’s going to explode like an IED.”

Just occurred to me that IED’s aren’t like missiles or RPG’s that are aimed and fired.

This “honeymoon IED” might well go off inside the Republican’s fenceline. Like Abu G’s testimony in a couple weeks…or the transcripts of Elston’s testimony this past week…or like the already exploded 3000-plus pages of documents dumped that we’ve combed through in mere hours, along with the testimony of dismissed USA’s , Sampson, Lurita Doan.

Come to think of it, the honeymoon ended after the first 100 hours, and there’s been nothing but detonations inside Republican’s Beltway Green Zone.

“But Mr Howard said it was “ridiculous” to suggest the sentence had been framed with the election in mind. “We didn’t impose the sentence, the sentence was imposed by the military commission and the plea bargain was worked out between the military prosecution and Mr Hicks’s lawyers, and the suggestion … that it’s got something to do with the Australian election is absurd.”

The sentence was “fixed around the election”.

All politics, all the time.

-GSD

darkblack @ 69

oldtree @ 8

In any other time, or USA, it would be treason.

No more than selling arms to a rogue state in order to finance a secret war, in express violation of a law specifically passed to prohibit such activity…Another ‘neat idea’.

With many of the same players back for an encore since they weren’t punished for their actions the first time. Elliot Abrams and John Poindexter specifically.

Rep. Jack Kingston (WH Stooge. GA). “The Democrats’ honeymoon is fixing to end. It’s going to explode like an IED.”

smapdi – ooh that pissed me off – am busy writing a LTE to newspapers in his district (Warner Robbins and Waycross)

more Bring It On! bluster from this oh so reliable WH stooge –

and he has never worn the uniform – I wonder how the 93 Georgia families of Iraq Occupation Dead feel about his use of the term IED

GSD @ 71

ECah,

That is one of my prime reasons to vote against the grand 9/11 conspiracy. Had they been crafty enough to devise that attack, they would have been crafty enough to have pkanted WMD’s.

They simply believed that they would find somthing…old artillery, blueprints, etc….Which is why their spinners trumpeted every little widget that was buried in some scientists rose garden.

They figured the frenzy and fanfare for their great victory would be enough to carry them through any problems.

They didn’t figure on a five year occupation with thousands of US dead.

-GSD

Incompetence has always been the most cogent argument against the 9/11 conspiracy theory. That and the dumbstruck look on W’s face when he heard the news.

Marie Roget @ 62

dakine01 @ 46

I believe John Prine has resurrected a few of his songs from the ’60s and ’70s. Especially “Flag Decal”.

“Well, your Flag Decal won’t get you into heaven anymore
It’s already overcrowded by your dity little war”.

Prine- what a master. He’s still doing concerts despite having had throat cancer some yrs. back:

Flag Decal- Philly Folk Fest ‘04

I saw him here in San Antone last summer.

mmr @ 21

Frank Probst @
15

There’s still more to come on this case. Waxman’s still holding hearings, and Scooter has yet to be sentenced. Does anyone know how sentencing hearings work? Are they open to the public? Can they be televised? Because that’s when the next big “boom” is going to come out in this story. Waxman has noticed that Fitz is already loaded for bear, and his hearings so far have been a way of saying, “Bear? No, no. Here, take my elephant gun instead.”

I’m just hoping it will happen with time enough to actually do some kind of impeachment hearing or criminal trial. That this case has not already gone so far as to get several indictments is, well, troubling, to say the least.

Sentencing hearings are generally open to the public, but they will not be televised. Presumably, folks like David Shuster will be covering it. Perhaps even a certain empty wheel….

BTW the right wing talking point on outing Valerie Wilson is that what Sandy Berger did is 10x worse and more treasonous. (I heard this on one of the shows over the weekend.) Fox had a special, “Socks, Scissors, Paper: The Sandy Berger Caper….”

Perhaps Bushco was shocked and surprised not to find WMDs. In the beginning they probably believed their own lies. Just think of the pretzel logic they have had to use concerning their entire reign.

portia.vz @ 43

Ya’ know, I kinda get the feeling that the Waxman hearing was just a way the Democrats found for Valerie to speak her mind before she was expected to fade away into obscurity. Waxman asked Josh Bolton for details of the WH investigation of the leak but he didn’t ask for a specific deadline for the results to be presented, unlike his other requests to Bolton. I don’t know what’s going on here but I’m not sure I like what I see.

When Fitzgerald ended his press conference by saying that this case was closed unless new information was brought forward. he also offered congress access to the evidence (I believe) used in the trial. Just what kind of “new information” would Fitz need to reopen this case? Is congress doing their job to meet his request?

dakine01 @ 8:22-

So lucky. I haven’t seen him in a long time.

OT but short. Josh’s one liner about today’s WaPo:

This just in from The Washington Post: Democratic victories bad for the Dems, good for the GOP.

Thank you for reminding me, CHS. Perhaps you should re-post it every month for short attention spans like myself. I am going to package up your posting and FAX it to the Unlovely Kingston (R-Ga), to remind HIM what company he keeps.

Christy, Thank you for using the word “betrayed,” as opposed to “outed” in reference to what happened to Agent Plame. “Outing” seems more appropriate to revealing furtive recreational mischief than to betraying the identity of an intelligence officer’s identity and that of Brewster-Jennings who were in all likelyhood trying to provide information vital to controlling the spead of nuclear weapons technology into Iran and other parts of the middle east. The words we use matter, so “betrayal” should be substituted for “outed” when discussing this crime with others so that the magnitude of the crime begins to register with the American public.

A friend suggested I Googled “Eve of Destruction”: one can listen to it right there. It is extraordinary how up-to-the-minute it still is!

o/t

btw Congressman Kingston – those 93 Georgia Military Deaths in Iraq -
only 5 were privates, and 4 of those were PFC’s – the majority are Sgts, Staff Sgts, Corporals, and Lance Corporals

none of the deaths matter more than the other but these losses to the institutional intelligence and wisdom of our military are beyond devastating

GeorgeSimian @
39

You can’t impeach Rove, can you? Because as powerful as Bush/Cheney are, I doubt they could fire Rove if they wanted to. Let’s just impeach all of them. It’s not like Cheney didn’t tell Libby to out Plame.

Since Rove is a civil officer (if I am not mistaken), he can be impeached. When you state that “…I doubt they could fire Rove if they wanted to”, are you referring to Bush/Cheney? Rove’s appointment was apparently not subject to Senate confirmation, and you know who appointed him.

For the latest PlameGate news, email archives, hearings, legal filings and other essential documents, see:
“The CIA Leak/PlameGate Resources.”

“I doubt they could fire Rove if they wanted to.”

Cause he knows where ALL of the bodies are buried.

maunga -

Kingston (R-Ga), to remind HIM what company he keeps.

Voting Record

Campaign Contributions
Open Secrets.org

What has been the result of Waxman’s inquiry to Josh Bolten requesting the details of the required investigation into the leak of classified information at the time of the Plame outing? Mr. Knodell confirmed at the hearing that nothing was done to investigate the breach from his office. Has there been any information about what Mr. Bolten replied? Has he replied?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..ouse-gases
Look! some sanity 5-4 decision and guess who the dissenters are.

egregious @ 22

I’m still going for 6(e)(3)(D).
Treason.

I agree.
Yesterday, while y’all talked about Orrin Hatch, I (as a habitual non-teevee-watcher) could find only a station with Arlen Spector. When Bob Schieffer made his summary statement, I wrote a comment, but the new thread had already begun. So, I want to repeat it here. It fits.

While Bob Schieffer gave his summary statement
(have the politicians not learned their lesson after Watergate and Iran Contra that lying, in Positions of Trust, does not pay?), I was thinking to myself: I wonder why the Constitution recommends the death penalty for certain acts of treason.

Maybe it is so that traitors who never suffered from too short of a memeory in the first place, but rather from a very long plan to subvert the Constitution cannot come back time and again and do their nefarious deed anew and ever more fiercely.

Hm, I never supported the death penalty, but I cannot find fault with the Constitution either.

Raven from the last thread. Mine all get turkey necks for breakfast every day and sometimes chicken thighs and legs. There are lots of raw meaty bone options. Yes it is the cooking that makes bones dangerous. Hope you see this.

it is nothing short of amazing cheney and the other traitors who committed this crime are allowed to just walk…nothing, absolutely nothing to happen and they just laugh and laugh

I know everyone here is proud of Fitzgerald, I for one am not

I think he is remiss, I think he has much more then enough evidence to indict

I want the charges filed, I don’t care if cheney invokes executive privilege, I don’t care if he uses gray mail defense

I want the charges leveled and I want him to dance his dance in front of planet earth

sorry, Fitz was charged with finding out who exposed national secrets, he has evidence and as far as I am concerned, he is remiss

these crimes need to be addressed and those that committed them need to be brought before the bar of justice

a record needs to be etched in the marble walls of historical account

while I respect the ability of Fitz, I am not a great fan of his and won’t be until I see “sealed vs sealed”, IF it exists

Well fitz rolled over – made libby the scapegoat and left the rest of the affair alone – nothing to rejoice about that.

He gave rove at least 5 opportunities to “fine tune” and “correct” his testimony – something that is extremely unusual and probably totally unjustifiable.

dakine01 — There was a star added. But there is no way to no whether it was attached to Valerie’s outing or something else, since action in Afghanistan and Iraq was hot and ongoing at the time.

eCAHNomics @ 86

OT but short. Josh’s one liner about today’s WaPo:

This just in from The Washington Post: Democratic victories bad for the Dems, good for the GOP.

That repeats the meme that it’s always good for the Republicans, always bad for the Democrats. It was especially prevalent before and just after the November elections. It’s interesting how the media remains in the pocket of a deeply unpopular President and his party. This is part of that.

I just watched that video with the sound off and it looks ridiculous. How exactly do they pitch that to the musicians? “So, you’re going to wear a puffy white dress and you’re going to slither in black ink. Then, you’ll stand in a chair, dressed in another puffy dress and Emily and Marty will grab yo uand make you sit down. But that’s just the beginning. Then we’ll…”
What a difference the sound makes.

charlietuna @ 101 sounds like troll. (I probably wouldn’t have been so generous with Rove myself, but I don’t think there was a deal of the kind our fishy friend is implying.)

Hugh @ 102:

Absoulutely. Just when, when is it ever bad for Repugs, according to MSM? And just what has been good for BushCo especially in the past two years or so?

GSD @
53

Digby has a good piece about Republican oppo research and how so many of the newly appointed Justice flacks and hacks were members of the Bush Bullet Battalion used to cultivate and fire opposition artillery at political opponants.

The reason why Red Faced Adulterer Dan Burton was douchey during the recent Waxman hearing is because Barbara Comstock was one of his top hatchet girls for a long time.

Incest is best with this crowd.

-GSD

Incest is best. Twenty million Americans can’t be wrong. About how many voters still support El Presidente, and Mr. Bush.

OT–

This is interesting, especially with the dissenters: a harbinger of things to come:

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Supreme Court ordered the federal government on Monday to take a fresh look at regulating carbon dioxide emissions from cars, a rebuke to Bush administration policy on global warming.

In a 5-4 decision, the court said the Clean Air Act gives the Environmental Protection Agency the authority to regulate the emissions of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases from cars.

Greenhouse gases are air pollutants under the landmark environmental law, Justice John Paul Stevens said in his majority opinion.

The court’s four conservative justices — Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Samuel Alito, Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas — dissented.

(snip)

cbl @ 90

o/t

btw Congressman Kingston – those 93 Georgia Military Deaths in Iraq -
only 5 were privates, and 4 of those were PFC’s – the majority are Sgts, Staff Sgts, Corporals, and Lance Corporals

none of the deaths matter more than the other but these losses to the institutional intelligence and wisdom of our military are beyond devastating

What I’ve been able to observe about this is that the deaths and injuries among young NCOs – in their mid-20s – IS quite high.

Many of these young men and women had been attending college whenever possible between operational deployments before the pace of the cycle got out of hand two years ago. Since then, the percentage of NCOs enrolled in higher education in Alaska has probably plummeted. This from talking to other profs who, like me, had high military enrollment in their classes. Such enrollment in my big lecture class has dropped from about 12 to 15 percent down to about 1 percent. This is anecdotal, but I’d like to see a national study on this, and on how lack of higher education will have a negative impact on these peoples’ future earning potential.

Some ex-students serving in the military that I’ve met in the community have gotten PTSD to the point they no longer care about their future like they did when I met them.

Mr. Rove is not subject to impeachment and removal from office. He is simply a personal aide to the president.

The most effective criticism of Mr. Rove would be through Congressional or special counsel investigations that expose his conduct. He did not assume command of Republican Party electioneering in Texas, or become the President’s constant companion, without orchestrating at least one dirty trick.

Christy, great post (as usual:)

One of the things I was struck by in reading the transcript of Valerie’s testimony was when Waxman asked her what the impact was of the 10-12 visits to the CIA by Cheney/Libby on agents in general … is it possible Cheney was hanging over Val’s shoulder, didn’t like her conclusions re WMD and that she was the actual target of the outing and Joe’s column was the cover?

just a thought … barb

Confirmed, that Kennedy is now the swing vote in SCOTUS:

“EPA has offered no reasoned explanation for its refusal to decide whether greenhouse gases cause or contribute to climate change,” Stevens said. He was joined by his liberal colleagues, Justices Stephen Breyer, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and David Souter, and the court’s swing voter, Justice Anthony Kennedy.

My bold.

Or perhaps Cheney was able to kill two birds with one act treason.

Christy Hardin Smith @
101

dakine01 — There was a star added. But there is no way to no whether it was attached to Valerie’s outing or something else, since action in Afghanistan and Iraq was hot and ongoing at the time.

thanks for the info Christy. Regardless, I agree that it was a treasonuous act and cost us resources, even if not directly.

ot

Frank Luntz was in town over the weekend preaching to his choir and according to him, it “stinks” to be a republican “these days.”

http://www.fresnobee.com/490/story/38954.html

He sez:

Talk radio is going the way of the dodo. Liberals rule the Internet.

Republicans should dress down, appeal to their base.

And…

Learn the power of words. For instance: “personalize” Social Security versus “privatizing” it. The word “privatize,” he said, conjures up images of exclusivity. Use spirituality instead of religion. Instead of a troop “surge” in Iraq — which conjures up images of escalation — use reassess or realign instead.

My personal favorite:

“Our own president is undermining his own case by the language he uses,” Luntz said.

Oh, where to begin!

smapdi @ 57

From that wapo article:
Rep. Jack Kingston (R-Ga.). “The Democrats’ honeymoon is fixing to end. It’s going to explode like an IED.”

Made me vomit a little in my mouth, not in a good way either.

It might help you iirc, that this is the same fellow that bitched about having to spend the entire week working in the new Congress instead of the three days that he was used to working in the old Republican regime.
Family values was his problem, less time to spend with the family on Mondays and Fridays.

Biodun @ 111

Confirmed, that Kennedy is now the swing vote in SCOTUS:

“EPA has offered no reasoned explanation for its refusal to decide whether greenhouse gases cause or contribute to climate change,” Stevens said. He was joined by his liberal colleagues, Justices Stephen Breyer, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and David Souter, and the court’s swing voter, Justice Anthony Kennedy.

My bold.

How interesting! The tide rises and the tide falls on the SCOTUS. The misadministration isn’t gonna like this at all!

His Langley contact is probably still feeding him stuff

have long thought it would be easy for those within the Agency to figure out just who this person(s) is – suspect he/she doesn’t have many lunchroom buddies

OT

DiFi takes Kit Bond to task about regime change in Iran. Interesting to note that Kit Bond drops Obama’s name, at the very end as he’s back peddling from over the edge.

Feinstein Rebukes Regime Change in Iran

OK, re impeaching Rove. He is a civil officer in the Executive branch. He draws a paycheck from the government. So he can be impeached. I have posted this before but here are the relevant citations:

Re impeachment of civil officers,
Article II, Section 4.

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

Civil officer applies to any employee of the federal government, including judges, excluding those in the military and legislators. From The Constitution of the United States of America, Analysis and Interpretation 2002 edition, the annotated text put out by our government:

During the debate in the First Congress on the “removal” controversy, it was contended by some members that impeachment was the exclusive way to remove any officer of the Government from his post, but Madison and others contended that this position was destructive of sound governmental practice, and the view did not prevail. Impeachment, said Madison, was to be used to reach a bad officer sheltered by the President and to remove him “even against the will of the President; so that the declaration in the Constitution was intended as a supplementary security for the good behavior of the public officers.” While the language of section 4 covers any “civil officer” in the executive branch, and covers judges as well, it excludes military officers, and the precedent was early established that it does not apply to members of Congress.

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/const…..02/012.pdf (p.608)

BuggyQ @ 14

Now I feel I ought to make a substantive comment. Did anybody else catch the NYT editorial this weekend about Rove? It was surprisingly blunt–all roads lead to Rove. He’s the spider at the center of all the webs, and it’s time for him to go.

It’s about frakkin’ time. Is there some sort of five-year delay the MSM is on lest they hear something…unpleasant?

I saw that and did yu see Michael Powell’s article about the end of the era of the “swaggering princes of prosecution”?

Talk about hyperbole.

Frank Probst @ 15

There’s still more to come on this case. Waxman’s still holding hearings, and Scooter has yet to be sentenced. Does anyone know how sentencing hearings work? Are they open to the public? Can they be televised? Because that’s when the next big “boom” is going to come out in this story. Waxman has noticed that Fitz is already loaded for bear, and his hearings so far have been a way of saying, “Bear? No, no. Here, take my elephant gun instead.”

yes, open to public

No, will not be televised

Don’t know if they will close circuit for live blogging, but I assume somebody backstage at FDL is working on that?

New thread from Christy.

Pattern of Corruption

barb in montana @ 110

One of the things I was struck by in reading the transcript of Valerie’s testimony was when Waxman asked her what the impact was of the 10-12 visits to the CIA by Cheney/Libby on agents in general … is it possible Cheney was hanging over Val’s shoulder, didn’t like her conclusions re WMD and that she was the actual target of the outing and Joe’s column was the cover?

This is something I’ve been wondering about too. It’s not hard to imagine that Bushco didn’t want too much light shed on its activities.

Betrayed…

That’s the operative word….

To put so much on the line and how this all went down….

God….

I feel so bad for the Valerie, her family, and all those people who can’t be named who worked with her…

Family values was his problem, less time to spend with the family on Mondays and Fridays

hey Apple Canyon2 -

I got yer Family Values right here Jack !

voted against the minimum wage
voted against lowering student loan interest rates
voted against Medicare re-negotiating drug pricing

oh and, horrors !

voted against adopting 9/11 Comm recommendations

just last week -
voted against Vote 186: H R 1591:

offers supplemental appropriations to help the United States fight the global war on terror

Biodun @
107

The court’s four conservative justices — Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Samuel Alito, Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas — dissented.

Roberts and Alito were put onto the high court more for their VERY pro-corporate past opinions than for their ardent Christianity. I’d like to see the dissent. Anyone know where that might be posted and who wrote it?

Washington is a small town. On Friday I was taking a walk with my little boy. We had stopped, ironically enough, at the statue of Ghandi there when I saw Judith Miller walking towards. She uncomfortably noticed me looking directly at her and tried to do deflect me by smiling towards my son. I said, “Thanks for the war, Ms. Miller”, at which her face curdled over, with the hint of a smirk. As she walked past I said, “It’s amazing you show your face in public”.

In the past my heart might have leapt to my throat, I would have been silent, and spent the remainder of the day in a state of rage. But, starting with a corner encounter with Tom Friedman last fall (he was profane and combative when I said pretty much the same thing to him), I’ve begun confronting these warmongers when I have the chance. It’s liberating. These people think they will never have to answer to the public, so it’s nice to see the dismay they feel at having their anonymity stripped away.

I think you’ll find it here ET @ 126

http://www.supremecourtus.gov/…..inion.html

brendan @
127

Washington is a small town. On Friday I was taking a walk with my little boy. We had stopped, ironically enough, at the statue of Ghandi there when I saw Judith Miller walking towards. She uncomfortably noticed me looking directly at her and tried to do deflect me by smiling towards my son. I said, “Thanks for the war, Ms. Miller”, at which her face curdled over, with the hint of a smirk. As she walked past I said, “It’s amazing you show your face in public”.

In the past my heart might have leapt to my throat, I would have been silent, and spent the remainder of the day in a state of rage. But, starting with a corner encounter with Tom Friedman last fall (he was profane and combative when I said pretty much the same thing to him), I’ve begun confronting these warmongers when I have the chance. It’s liberating. These people think they will never have to answer to the public, so it’s nice to see the dismay they feel at having their anonymity stripped away.

Was she mailing any anthrax laced letters at the time?

Terry Olson @
54

portia @ 43-
Waxman is doing a brilliant job. Maybe he’s planning things out so that Bush cannot pardon the criminals.

Well, I’ve been pretty impressed by him so far. Still, the lack of a ETA date on the WH security investigation report is very troubling to me. I hope to be pleasantly surprised.

Ed*ard Teller @ 126:

You’ll see the SCOTUS dissenting opinion here. (PDF)

cbl,
You said it much better than I did on the “family values” issue.
I did not know about all those negative votes.
Thanks, and good to see you.

What the media/white house/congress/house etc are missing with all their ’spin’ IS;
The trial of these people has already started, they ARE being judged by their ‘peers’, just not in only one location.
Each day more people (americans and the interested) are aware of MORE facts, MORE secret conversations, MORE deliberately hidden actions, MORE hidden truths.
We already know there was a deliberate covering up of these peoples actions, this has been proven.
‘Everybody’ is saying ‘We can’t impeach them’ HELLO….
These are ‘PEOPLE’ committing known and suspected criminal acts..READ THEM THEIR RIGHTS, CHARGE THEM, ARREST THEM..
peace.

Kathleen @ 84

portia.vz @ 43

Ya’ know, I kinda get the feeling that the Waxman hearing was just a way the Democrats found for Valerie to speak her mind before she was expected to fade away into obscurity. Waxman asked Josh Bolton for details of the WH investigation of the leak but he didn’t ask for a specific deadline for the results to be presented, unlike his other requests to Bolton. I don’t know what’s going on here but I’m not sure I like what I see.

When Fitzgerald ended his press conference by saying that this case was closed unless new information was brought forward. he also offered congress access to the evidence (I believe) used in the trial. Just what kind of “new information” would Fitz need to reopen this case? Is congress doing their job to meet his request?

I hope they are.

Ed*ard Teller @ 126

Biodun @
107

The court’s four conservative justices — Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Samuel Alito, Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas — dissented.

Roberts and Alito were put onto the high court more for their VERY pro-corporate past opinions than for their ardent Christianity. I’d like to see the dissent. Anyone know where that might be posted and who wrote it?

ET: How right you are! All hail the Chief???

Biodun @
52

FDL newbies can go to urban dictionary.com for definitions of FDL shorthands.

Of course! It should have been obvious to me that that was the place to go.

Sarcasm aside, AFAICT, this is the only blog for which the term ‘EPU’ is defined, and it’s the only one I know where it would have meaning.

The idea seems to be that there’s one big discussion that moves to the newest thread whenever one begins, rather than different discussions about different things in different threads.

That’s gonna work for some, I guess, and more power to them.

egregious @
22

I’m still going for 6(e)(3)(D).
Treason.

YUP! It sure as hell was!

Christy:

the people who exposed Valerie and distorted intelligence to their own vision of how they wanted to view the world are not patriots:

You’re right. They are traitors.

albert fall @ 6

What was the result of the CIA damage assessment regarding the treasonous outing of Plame?

Specifically: Were any US or foreign agents or contacts killed? What was the dollar cost of doing a damage assessment? What was the dollar cost of the setback in time and manpower in replacing the Plame function? Has the capability to track WMDs post-Plame been restored at least to its levels pre-Plame outing?

emphasis mine

I recall that a very reliable source ( perhaps Plame or Wilson ) stated that it would probably take 10 or more years to restore the network that has been destroyed.

Furthermore, note that this destroyed not only the info about WMD that Iraq might possibly have had but also the evaluation of WMD in Iran. Thus it was a three for one hit by the POTUS. Moreover, it sets up the scenario to BS the world about Iran WMD just like the crap about Iraq that was the cover to invade that country.

charlie tuna @
100

Well fitz rolled over – made libby the scapegoat and left the rest of the affair alone – nothing to rejoice about that.

He gave rove at least 5 opportunities to “fine tune” and “correct” his testimony – something that is extremely unusual and probably totally unjustifiable.

You need to remember that in order to prosecute someone, you first need to get a Grand Jury to indict that person. If you can’t get an indictment based on testimony, it’s unlikely you’ll get a guilty plea or a conviction on whatever charges you might think should be brought. Otherwise, you would just spinning your wheels and wasting you time as well as the courts and the jurors. I would have liked to see a trial of Rove myself, but I’m not into lost causes. We need to move on.

portia.vz @ 129

brendan @
127

Washington is a small town. On Friday I was taking a walk with my little boy. We had stopped, ironically enough, at the statue of Ghandi there when I saw Judith Miller walking towards. She uncomfortably noticed me looking directly at her and tried to do deflect me by smiling towards my son. I said, “Thanks for the war, Ms. Miller”, at which her face curdled over, with the hint of a smirk. As she walked past I said, “It’s amazing you show your face in public”.

In the past my heart might have leapt to my throat, I would have been silent, and spent the remainder of the day in a state of rage. But, starting with a corner encounter with Tom Friedman last fall (he was profane and combative when I said pretty much the same thing to him), I’ve begun confronting these warmongers when I have the chance. It’s liberating. These people think they will never have to answer to the public, so it’s nice to see the dismay they feel at having their anonymity stripped away.

Was she mailing any anthrax laced letters at WYthe time?

Good for you! While I attended the Libby trial, one of the other peasants ( a retired school teacher from New York) who was attending the trial, wondered out loud. “Why is it that when we have the opportunity to confront Libby (we were often seeing him in approachable circumstances) that the public did not confront him with his crimes, by being as brave as you were with Judy Miller and Friedman for their parts in pushing for the invasion of Iraq. Libby, Miller, Friedmann and many more have the Iraqi peoples and American soldiers blood on their hands. More like they are up to their necks in this blood.

You should be proud of yourself that you had the “chutzpah” to tell it like it is. Thanks

brendan @
127

Washington is a small town. On Friday I was taking a walk with my little boy. We had stopped, ironically enough, at the statue of Ghandi there when I saw Judith Miller walking towards. She uncomfortably noticed me looking directly at her and tried to do deflect me by smiling towards my son. I said, “Thanks for the war, Ms. Miller”, at which her face curdled over, with the hint of a smirk. As she walked past I said, “It’s amazing you show your face in public”.

In the past my heart might have leapt to my throat, I would have been silent, and spent the remainder of the day in a state of rage. But, starting with a corner encounter with Tom Friedman last fall (he was profane and combative when I said pretty much the same thing to him), I’ve begun confronting these warmongers when I have the chance. It’s liberating. These people think they will never have to answer to the public, so it’s nice to see the dismay they feel at having their anonymity stripped away.

brendan – Thank you from a fellow citizen for this wonderful act of holding Judith Miller personally accountable for her actions, to her face. Members of Congress could learn a thing or two from you about applying pressure to their conscience-suppressing colleagues.

That is the sort of face-to-face encounter that’ll linger for Ms. Miller, while all the anonymous angry blogging comments she’s heard about/read make barely a dent. What an excellent way of putting it to her, as well. And we learn – surprise, surprise – that the multi-millionaire Tom Friedman gets profane and abusive when quietly confronted by a citizen on the street about his gratuitous warmongering in multiple public forums. Their lack of character is exposed in a flash by your simple, yet profound, comments about their behavior on the job, democratically and directly relayed to them in person by a fellow American. Bravo, brendan.

extremely epu’d – not time to read comments – wonder if I missed something. Not sure why “Fitz is loaded for bear.”
I mean, I’d like to think he is, but is there something I haven’t heard that tells us he is?

Thanks – if anyone is still here!

George Bush put Alito and Roberts on the Supreme Court so the ax wouldn’t fall on this administration. The Plame leak case alone is only one unpunished scandal for Bush/Cheney. Those two Supremes would keep Bush from a long vacation in, say, Abu Girab. He should lose his status as an American and bend over.

RT @
38

kirk murphy @
68

RT, I very much regret that you or anyone was told off for EPUing. I can’t understand anyone’s reson for doing that, and I apologize you were treated that way.

Over the last year, the Lake has made a deliberate effort to let “epu’d” threads know a new thread had started. [This began when those unknowingly “left” on an epu’d thread asked to me informed of new threads.]

I do see commenters observing a new thread has started and invited folks “up”.

When this happens, I sure hope it doen’t send the message that sharing on EPU’s threads is somehow not OK.

I do admit I’m not neutral hers – I like being able topost comments on epu’d threads. With comments as wordy a smine can be, I fear putting them on current thread would be rude – too much text!

Thanks for letting folks know of your experience – hope you might consider stayin about and continuing to play inou public policy discussions.

Kirk – thanks, I appreciate. But there’s just a lot about this place I don’t ‘get.’ For instance, I can’t respond to you in yesterday afternoon’s thread, which is less than 18 hours old. And why would it matter to people that there’s a new thread started if they wanted to address the points raised in the old one? And why can’t they find out there’s a new thread by refreshing the main page, like I just did?

And what does ‘EPU’ stand for, anyway?

I share your frustration with this. For example, some excellent comments were posted near the end of the Plenary Powers thread, long after looseheadprop had retired from the scene, that are now lost in EPU-land, the black hole of FDL blogspace. Those comments would have been out of place on any of the subsequent threads. And now they languish, unread and unanswered.

BTW, “EPU” stands for Evil Parallel Universe, the moniker of a commenter who often found himself (as I often do) posting a comment that few people will read on an old thread, after the herd has moved up top to a new thread. It has even become a glossary item in some Internet dictionaries. It is a a frustrating experience.

My problem with this is exacerbated by living in Hawaii, so that by the time I get to reading some comments, the writer has long since gone to bed, and everyone who has not retired has moved onto a new thread. By the time I’m having my first cuppacoffee in the morning, we’re already 3-4 threads into the new day, so if there’s an interesting comment on the first thread of the day, by the time I get to it, no one will read it if I reply because the herd is already gone upstairs and is 2-3 threads ahead of me.
Bob in HI

dakine01 @
46

I believe John Prine has resurrected a few of his songs from the ’60s and ’70s. Especially “Flag Decal”.

“Well, your Flag Decal won’t get you into heaven anymore
It’s already overcrowded by your dity little war”.

Ah, John Prine!

There’s a hole in Daddy’s arm, where all the money goes;. . .

One of the saddest songs I know.

Bob in HI

Valerie Plame was the CIA’s operational officer in charge of counter-proliferation. Which means she tracked loose nukes. So, when Bush said, as he once did, that his absolute, number-one priority was preventing terrorists from getting loose nukes, okay, that’s what she worked on. That’s what she devoted her life to, staying undercover for 20 years, maintaining two identities every goddamn day. This is extraordinary service to your country.

Bill Maher isn’t ready to make nice

For a long time I have thought that Palme’s outing was also a premeditated attack on the non proliferation infrastructure, within the CIA of course, and outside it as well.

Motive, who knows? Cheney and the old Regean hawks and their neocon fellow travelers always had a lot of contempt for the CIA.

There is no outward evidence that they take non prolifertaion at all seriously. They are begging India to build up. The don’t seem to have a care in the world about Pakistans very well proven weapons and delivery systems. They bungled N Korea so badly one might guess that they wanted them to go ahead and make some bombs. They are not doing a very good job defusing Russias nukes and I don’t even know if that program of decommssioning them is still going on. It never gets talked about by them, and thus nobody does. They have abrograted nuke related missle defense treaty. (A move absolutely and unquestionably unconstituional) They are dying to test again but won’t be there long enough to pull it off.

Add it all up and you have a de facto pro proliferation agenda.

I’ll repeat. They outed Palme because she was working on non proliferation. If she had been directly invovled in anti terrorism it would never have happend. People understand that. I don’t have a single doubt that what she was working on motivated them to out her.

Hey Bob in HI — just to let you know – someone read your comments – rushing out of work, now. but “old” threads do get checked on by some for awhile. welcome.

Hi RT -

I don’t speak for FDL (merely a commenter), but IIRC each open thread poses a real demand on servers, so the capacity to keep old threads “open” has finite limits.

As for why it would matter (to those who wished to stay on an old thread) to know of a new thread: to thos ewho wish to stay, it would not matter. The request for the “new thread announcemetns” came from commenters who DID wish to know of the next thread. Neither is better – they are merely different.

Refreshing the page (as opposed to “refresh comments”) also eats more server resources, so folks refrain in order not to swamp the Lake’s servers.

[When I want to let folks know of good stuff on old threads, I just post a “pointer” comment on the most active thread(s)…..]

Hope this helps!

Kirk

So, I take it the Waxman committee has not obtained classified evidence from the Agency regarding the consequences of the exposure of Valerie Wilson. That is most unfortunate.

Having served in the U.S. military years ago, with a top secret clearance, and after having had our nation’s security classification system drilled into my head on a daily basis, it is important to reiterate that the identity of a covert CIA operative is one of those security classifications that literally goes beyond top secret.

Very, very few people, including at the CIA itself, would have been privy to this information, especially since Valerie Plame was a covert CIA NOC agent operating undercover in a highly sensitive Cold War field…nuclear proliferation.

Thus, I’d like to offer an analogy of the seriousness of disclosing Valerie Plame’s identity.

Remember when Geraldo Rivera, embedded with an advancing U.S. military unit in 2003, was kicked out of Iraq after he drew some lines in the sand, which may have given Saddam Hussein’s retreating army critical tactical intelligence about U.S. military operations? At the worst, Geraldo Rivera could have been charged with aiding and abetting the enemy. However, he was slapped on the hand and sent packing.

Now, imagine if Geraldo Rivera had written “Valerie Plame – CIA operative” in the sand instead of roughly sketching out military deployment positions inside Iraq while on national television.

Or maybe someone wrote in the sand “Joe Wilson’s wife – CIA operative” and instead of Geraldo Rivera it was Robert Novak? And Robert Novak got his little “scoop” about Joe Wilson’s wife being a CIA operative from top officials in the Bush administration, who violated their national security oath in the process?

Now, compare the penalties for each of these security breaches. Not much difference is there?

Geraldo Rivera was sent packing for his little indiscretion in Iraq, told his embedding days were over, but otherwise no punishment has ever been assessed for what he did.

In the case of the betrayal of Valerie Plame’s covert CIA identity (and the further disclosure of her covert CIA network), no Bush administration official has ever been specifically punished for this serious breach of our national security. And most of the top Bush officials complicit in this major security breach are still in place, not having been given their walking papers and sent packing.

(Scooter Libby is the one exception, but he still has not been held accountable for his complicity in betraying the identity of a covert CIA operative for purely political reasons. And no matter what the outcome of Scooter’s appeal’s process, he’ll always have a cushie job waiting for him in the “culture of corruption” Republican Party…and probably someday even get a security clearance again).

Thus, I’m not ready to make nice either.

None of the Bush officals responsible were sent packing immediately after July 14, 2003, nor did they have their security clearance stripped from them. One Bush official resigned only after federal charges were filed that he lied and obstructed justice, but he was not charged with the much more serious crime of endangering our national security and betraying his public trust. Furthermore, no internal investigation was initiated immediately after the leak occurred in July 2003, and apparently none has occurred since.

Anyway, can you imagine what Geraldo Rivera’s punishment would have been if he had written “Joe Wilson’s wife – CIA operative” in the sands of Iraq instead of what he did scrawl? The Bush administration would have left no stone unturned to discover how Geraldo had learned of such sensitive information, and he would have been punished to the maximum extent of the law, as well as anyone else found complicit in outing a covert CIA operative and betraying our national security.

The culpable Bush administration officials should not be treated any less.

Nope. Not ready to make nice. Justice must be served first before any thought of making nice can ever be entertained. But even then, no neo-con Republican can ever be trusted again in matters of national security.