
(Book Salon is still on vacation while we get a new editor for the weekly feature in place. I think we'll have a book for community review next week at this time, so please stay tuned. — Pach)
A couple of weeks ago I asked our readers to complete a short survey. The summary statistical results are here. You told us what ways you felt you could support the work we do here at the site so we can keep doing it. Today I want to brief you on the results, a kind of community report. This is what you told us:
Who Completed the Survey?
We didn't do demographics, but 2962 of you completed the survey over a 24 hour period. 6% of you described yourselves as regular commenters, which says to me we got a good amount of input from people who don't usually communicate with us. Based on site visit stats, roughly 1% of you comment, so commenters still represent, in this sample, a larger proportion of respondents relative to our entire readership base, but they are also the people who invest the most energy and participation in the community. Of the rest of you, 28% said you do not comment, 30% said you occasionally leave comments and 36% of you said you read comments but don't make comments.
The survey was specifically about how we can generate funds sufficient to keep our work ongoing here, so we also asked how many people had already given some money through this site, either to the site directly or to any of our selected candidates in the Blue America list. 38% of respondents said they had already given before, while 57% said they had not and 5% said they don't remember. That was a high rate of past givers, and it meant to me that we have a pretty well established level of trust with our readers, since so many of you are willing to be responsive to our calls for financial support, one way or another.
44% of you said you read the blog multiple times per day, so this is a survey of our most loyal readers. This makes sense, as the survey was only active for a day. 36% of you said you read the site daily and 16% said you read just a few times per week. So, 96% of respondents read the site at least a few times per week. Again, this suggests the survey sampled what could be considered to be our base audience/community.
Are You Willing to Provide Continued Support?
Okay, a high proportion of you said you have already given money to support us or our selected progressive candidates before, but what about the future?
40% of you said you would be willing to provide us future financial support, a number comparable to the proportion who said they have given in the past. Okay, so we're at least maintaining our goodwill and community trust, based on the data so far. Only 6% of you said you would not be willing to provide financial support, and 54% of you said maybe you would be willing. We did not ask specifically for reasons behind all these choices, but so many of you chose to leave comments for us (more than a third of survey respondents), I think we know the answers. More on that later.
The bottom line is, you are willing to continue to give us support and almost all of you are at least willing to give it serious thought. What are the potential obstacles to giving? We did not specifically ask, but once again, your generosity in providing us comments (qualitative data) probably contains the answers.
What's the Most Preferred Funding Model?
We offered some different funding options to you, just some ideas, and you told us which ones you thought were good and bad ideas according to a five point rating scale.
Cumulatively, across all ratings, two options enjoyed virtually equal, top level support. For the whole sample, when you translate the number 3.75 into words, that falls just a tad below the rating of 4.0 ("a pretty good idea"). When you pull out the responses of those who said they would not be interested in supporting the site, those numbers rise but the overall pattern does not change. So, for those who are at least possibly interested in supporting the site, these top two funding models represent "a pretty good idea." Running closely behind these two is a third option: quarterly funding drives, something like the NPR model.
But let's focus on the top two funding models, since those are the ones you have told us you prefer. One option is the voluntary recurring subscription model, and the specific example in the survey was $5 per month. People like that idea. There was some input in the comments that $60 a year is a little high for them, and the key here is the subscription model is voluntary: content currently available to all would remain available to all. More on the price point issues in a little bit, but the main takeaway here is, the voluntary subscription model is popular.
The other top funding model involves targeted fund drives for projects, such as the Plame House to allow us to cover the Libby trial, or the current drive to help complete the creation and design of the Roots Project (see the thermometer on the right side of this page). This makes sense. People like to know what they're investing in.
Marginally, and these differences are slight, our more regular readers and/or our past givers are a little more enthused about the regular subscription model, relative to the project fundraising model, but the difference is not enough to change the overall preference pattern apparent in the generic results visible through the link above.
This makes sense. Those who know us the best, who have also given to us in the past, perhaps have a greater sense of or appreciation for the nuts and bolts that make the site run: paying for servers and bandwidth, trying to compensate writer, moderators and tech folks in a fair way, and so on. Those who may be a little less deeply immersed in the community very slightly, marginally, prefer the projects model over the subscriptions model, which is just fine with us, too. We need both, and there's far more agreement between these groups and no essential disagreement. It's all a matter of shaded preference rates.
Respondents told us they don't really like the Salon model of click through advertising to view content, which Salon uses as an alternative to a voluntaryo subscription model. In the middle preference range – reflecting a kind of ambivalence – comes the email mailing list model for funding appeals,projects, etc. Again, those who know us and like us best are much more comfortable with this model than those who do not.
What Did You Tell Us In Your Own Words?
1034 of you left voluntary comments, feedback and suggestions for us in the survey, or 35%. I read them all. I can count the number of comments that included criticism or any negativity about what we do here on my fingers. Across 1034 comments, I find that absolutely astonishing. I've done survey research before and I've never seen anything like it.
Your responses overwhelmed me, not in their volume, but in their depth of appreciation and enthusiasm. I wish I could open that part of the survey to you all because it would make an awesome set of testimonial quotes, but I can't because many of you shared personal email addresses and identifying, confidential information that I need to keep hidden.
You also had a lot of suggestions, too many for me to recount or summarize. Many of these suggestions are very good and we'll pursue them. For example, we may see about doing some audio podcasts of some kind for some as yet undefined level of higher end, generous support, as an added perk and way of saying "thank you." We want to keep all our current content freely available, but that doesn't mean we can't do things to thank and recognize our most generous benefactors, within the confines of our mission and values.
The overwhelming thing I take away from the comments is the willingness of people to provide support, but currently, we make it hard for a lot of you to do so. Many of you don't realize we already have a link at the right side of the page for you to donate via PayPal or through your credit card. We've done a lousy job of communicating with people how they can support us, and we need to make changes so those who are willing and able to support our collective work here can do so easily.
There were also a number of misconceptions about what it takes to keep the site going. For example, a number of people don't realize that our current income from advertising does not in fact support the site. Sometimes it covers basic monthly overhead (servers, bandwidth) but when it doesn't, Jane steps in to cover it. Even with our current advertising income, we are not able to fairly compensate the labor and energy of the writers and moderators who make the site function: the site is supported by generous people donating their time and talent, but we need to get beyond that, or we're not practicing what we preach.
Finally, a lot of you volunteered that you hate PayPal, that you don't trust it. While many people are uncomfortable with online commerce, even more of you shy away form PayPal. Since our basic donation pipeline to date has been through PayPal, this means we have to change.
There's a whole lot more in the comments, but I'll have to leave it at that for now, as a summary.
What Are The Next Steps?
As liberal as we are, there's some serious business experience in the team on this site, at a pretty high level. Hopefully, we can get a lot better at this. The survey results suggest to me a lot of room for growing in the stability and consistency of what we do here together, and doing it even better. A lot of your ideas were very good, and I'm exploring a few of them right away. But, in the immediate term, we can go a long way toward getting some basic things right by taking these next steps:
- We need to make it easier for you to support us if you want to. This may involve some front page redesign of some sort, since many of you don't even see the donation options on the page.
- We also need to be a little less apologetic and a little more professional about asking for your support a little more frequently and openly.
- We need to set up a merchant account to process credit cards and move beyond our reliance on PayPal.
- We need to invest in a good shopping cart option that will allow us to craft voluntary subscription models at varying donation levels and options, including options targeted to specific fundraising campaigns for projects, to accommodate the preferences you shared with us in the survey.
- We need to keep listening to your preferences and feedback about any new options we provide so that we can remain responsive to you. This survey was very helpful and very successful in garnering your input.
Thanks again for all your help, feedback and guidance. Supporting this site means supporting this community: whatever we get is channeled back into the site and the community, so we can all work together to bring about lasting change in our country. From Jane, Christy, TRex, Siun, our moderators, tech people, guest writers and myself, we all really appreciate you. You make everything that happens here possible.
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I did not have enough time to proof the whole thing, gang, so when you spot typos (as I’m sure you will!), please let me know.
So, 96% of respondents read the site at least aaa few times per week.
John Casper: yes.
We appreciate and support you and we are ALL over the world. Thank YOU.
Thanks, Pach. Very illuminating.
Well, one of the things that FDL already does well is to inspire us to take action.
Remember the high school in Connecticut there the students were prohibited from putting on a school play involving Iraq? Remember how the teacher and students were prohibited from even putting it on outside school and outside school hours?
Like many others, I wrote a message to the Principal. I just got this news that my letter:
edited by author
Prof: Thanks. I’d heard something was in the works to allow an off campus production to proceed. Glad it’s panning out.
Again, those who know us and like us bestare much more confortable with this model than those who are not.
Jane Hamsher @ 5
Jane I was just about to ask about you. I hope you are doing will, always in my prayers.
If you go google “will the U.s. attack Iran” in the last hour ten new articles have come up. Intelligence in Russia, Canada. Articles at JTA, Austrailian papers.
The Bush administration and the neo-cons are FUCKING WAR CRIMINALS. THEY NEED TO BE LOCKED UP AT THE VERY LEAST!
DOING WELL! BLESS YOUR BEAUTIFUL HEART, BODY AND MIND JANE!
We want to keep all our current content freely available, but that doesn’t mean we can’t do things to thanks and recognize our most genrous benefactors, within the confines of our mission and values.
And thank you, Pach, for keeping things humming.
Good on all o’ ya!
I’m ready to do a monthly pledge to the site, just as I do for church. It’s the best way to support the values I care about. I do hope others will see their way to doing something like it as well.
Great work, Pach, Jane, Christy and the whole lot of you!
A demographic survey should be next plus a survey of our interests. Since many of us are older a survey of our stock portfilos would give advertisers an incentive to advertise with a group who believes in their company enough to put their own money in it. Toyota, Honda, Alternative Energy for example should advertise at the Lake especially considering how concerned we are here about g.w’s mucking up the middle east. Freeing America from dependence on foreign oil is something we do seem to be concerned about. These companies should welcome then a chance if approached to advertise with a group so strongly concerned with the oil problem their products help solve!
Pach, this is a very intelligent summary of the data by someone who knows the community in all its diversity extremely well. Thanks very much.
Prof @ 6
Prof Great News Things like this make me want to fight for America even more Cassie and all the teen bloggers should get copied on this and maybe their comments/take on the issue could be featured in a post.!
Pelosi left the door wide open for a pre-emptive attack on Iran without congressional approval. She should be hammered.
CALL AND E-MAIL YOUR REPS THIS WEEK LET THEM KNOW “NO ATTACK ON IRAN”.
Senate bill 759 prohibits the use of funds for military operations against Iran, and yet remains bottled up in the Senate Foreign Relations committee
Hooray for the FDL readers, commenters and regular writers and all the support folks who make FDL work. I’m one of the poor elderly readers/occasional commenters, who is willing to donate occasionally, by check. Don’t have credit cards anymore and I also hate paypal. Really enjoyed the write up, Pach; I’d been very curious about your response rate and content, so this was really a very encouraging report.
Blessings to you all,
Sweet kairos!
Great post, Pach – thanks for collating explaining the results.
I completely forgot to do the survey before it expired, so here are some comments:
By all means, I think you guys should definitely be more direct in asking for money. I also think you should mention in every financial request/drive efforts that ads on this site do not pay for operations or staff. Heck, it wouldn’t even bug me if you put a link to paypal/credit card donation info in every major post (as was done during the Libby trial liveblogging threads). I think it’s good to be aware that most of us rarely even look at what’s on the left and right sides of the pages – we simply click on the main open thread and read it – and there is NO information about the Roots drive or regular donations in there (unless someone posts a request for donations).
On another site I visit (a non-political site), they have a special feature called “Community Supporter”. By levels of donation, you can be a different level of supporter. The only difference is that your name is a different color on the screen (”Gold” CS = gold text and displays “Gold Community Supporter” under the name; “Silver = greyish silver text with the “Silver CS”, etc.). I don’t think this type of bling for those who donate a little has caused anyone to be uncomfortable about a “class society” because there are no other perks for those who donate – you just get a little recognition.
My only other comment about the site is that I think we need to do a better job of inviting new people to comment. At times, this site seems a bit clique-oriented – but it’s only because of the commenting system. Occasionally, people will comment, and while their comments are read and considered, often they aren’t responded to because everything moves so fast here. That often gives very occasional commenters the notion that their comments are ignored. I certainly felt that way the first year or so I read the site and commented very rarely. Having monthly “come out and play” posts at different times & days is probably a great idea to get to know more of our regular readers who rarely or never comment.
Monica Goodling appears before the Judiciary Committee
Leahy: Do you promise to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Goodling: I do.
Leahy: Thank you for appearing here today. Is it true that you are a political appointee in the Department of Justice.
Goodling: Respectfully Senator, I decline to answer the question on the grounds that it may incriminate me.
Thanks for doing the survey and sharing the results. This is one of a very few go-to sites for me on the internet, and I continue to wish you the best.
First comment, but long time lurker. I love this site, and read it every day! But because I never post anything, I did not participate in the survey. I particularly liked reading the live-blogging commentary during the Libby trial. And in fact, even donated to show my appreciation. I wish to extend my thanks to everyone who participates into the blogging and maintenance of Firedoglake.com, Thank you!
Bluebird sings!
Thank you, Bluebird. Welcome to the comment threads!
Absent a specific need (e.g. support for Plame House during the Libby trial), I’m not planning on supporting this site.
I’m sure it works for a lot of people, but I’m not used to a forum where you’re apparently supposed to comment in the most recent thread, no matter what you have to say, rather than commenting in the thread that began with a post you actually had something to say something about.
(I’ve been told off a couple of times for commenting in a thread when there was a new one started. Who knew?)
There’s a lot of great social interaction in those threads, but it’s kinda like you’ve either got to be willing to dive in and read all the chitchat, or be an outsider. If you actually want to talk about the issues raised in a post, this place quite frankly leaves a lot to be desired.
Like I say, I’m sure there are people who work well within this format. I’m just not one of them. Fortunately, there are plenty of other places out there for a policy wonk to hang out at.
I hope you don’t get rid of paypal altogether. I’ve used it for at least a hundred small ebay things.(little handmade beads). You would think with so many little transactions I would have had a problem. But nope.
I refined a suggestion I made in this diary on Booman:
Fundraising for blogs
landofthefree:At times, this site seems a bit clique-oriented – but it’s only because of the commenting system. Occasionally, people will comment, and while their comments are read and considered, often they aren’t responded to because everything moves so fast here. That often gives very occasional commenters the notion that their comments are ignored. I certainly felt that way the first year or so I read the site and commented very rarely. Having monthly “come out and play” posts at different times & days is probably a great idea to get to know more of our regular readers who rarely or never comment.
I couldn’t agree more. I used to be able to comment more frequently, but the time frames have tilted to an eastcoastcentric modality which limits the type of posts and comments for those of us who do not sit in front of a computer for a living of live in another part of the country/world. Not sure how to fix it, I know it is not intentional.
FDL is a wonderful place, even wnen lurking…..
/waving to kairos, Bluebird and RT :)
Kathleen @
18
Kathleen -
Senator Joseph Biden is chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
I very much like the monthly subscriber option.
I don’t think that FDL will EVER (Jane, Christy, Pach, TRex, Scarecrow, Siun, Phoenix Woman, watertiger, Donita, Matt O., Tula, Jordan, Eli, EW, Hugh, etc.) stray from the truth and its origins or where the distortions of the truth will lead us.
I do like the idea of “choosing” to contribute and participate every month.
It is a choice and a movement after all.
Things can and do get weird at times and I just like the idea of attracting and holding folks and support all along the way while still ensuring and deserving their confidence.
(Snail mail is my definite preference, btw.)
Thank you Pach.
Neil @ 22
Yes! I like the angle embarrass the political hires by asking about their actual job, their qualifications for the job and then ask them if they are aware that in the Real World they are underqualifed for the job and or overpaid. If the bushies won’t answer questions that can incriminate them, ask them questions that will humiliate them! They can’t claim protection from incrimination for that! Then we ask them what they did to get these high paying heavy responsibilty jobs, contribute money, voulnteer for the bush campaign, have a relative hook them up. Then we ask them if they think its FAIR that they got these jobs. Then we ask them what they think about the fact that because of their incompetence the president is now in trouble over the Gonzo scandal.( I love reversing arguments and arguing against people from their own viewpoint) because by their incompetence, failure etc they have hurt the bush presidency. Monica, Kyle and who else can we question preferably as a group.
I dunno…getting EPU’d is an honor…plus it can be a nice backwater for backchannel backpedaling!
Pach-
Thanks for the report. I’m not really surprised – for me, this site feels a lot like some newsgroups I belonged to in the earlier internet days – mostly fairly narrow interests for each one, everyone getting to “know” each other pretty well.
I’d love to donate more than I probably can – am usually strapped for cash, but scraped up small donations for several Blue America candidates during campaign season. Always hoping my income will increase , and will do more when there’s more coming in.
But even I could manage a small regular donation if you set it up that way.
I’ve had no problems with PayPal, either (have used it about a dozen times).
I think the survey work was extremely well done.
Firedoglake has gradually increased it’s importance in my day. I would be willing to donate on a monthly basis to keep FDL in operating funds.
I would also be willing to occasionally put extra effort/funds toward special projects.
Thank you all so much for the important work you do for the rest of us.
There are people who like PayPal, and I think we can set up a merchant account that processes secure transactions while also accommodating those who prefer PayPal. But having PayPal as the baseline conduit turns a lot of people off. It was in the comments, and I’m guessing it’s because there have been so many phishing scams associated with faux-PayPal.
Thanks for this excellent summary of the survey results, Pach. I am interested to know: did contributions increase substantially during the time of the liveblogging, when there was an appeal at the end of each post? That seemed like an easy way to guide people to their preferred method of donating.
Also, a friendly, recurring reminder to click-through on the ads would help me remember how at least some of the bills get paid.
As for commenting being difficult because of the format – yes, it’s different from chats or newsgroups, but not terribly different from other blogs I visit.
It is true that threads have been going up fast lately, and I’ve been quieter than usual because of it, but I think that’s just because there’s been so much breaking news, especially since the Libby trial. IF we’re going to keep track of these evil people’s evildoings, we gotta move fast!
Besides, there are often comments continuing on an earlier thread – I sure wouldn’t “tell off” anyone. I’m often the EPU’d one myself – especially when I’m at work.
Somebody correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that if you take the fifth, you can’t answer any question at all. It’s all or nothing. You can’t choose what questions you will answer or will not. It’s the fifth on every question.
Egregious welcomed me officially to the lake which she does so often to others.
I do not always expect a reply. Oftentimes I am reporting to fellow citizen reporters vital info from my point of view or to serve the fellow community.We are all in this together… which this site thoroughly exemplifies.
I just want to say that I love FDL, its community and writers.
itwasntme @ 42
IANAL – But I beleive that is incorrect.
Ms. Gooding’s counsel has (I think) indicated that she will respond in this manner though.
ReneND @ 28
Me either. We’ve used paypal for hundreds of e-bay and other transactions, and we’ve never had a problem.
angie @
33
the web is changing so fast, it might be near impossible to find a model that will work for very long. But I agree with angie, and hope to be able to contribute REGULARLY to this great place – as soon as I see how much I have left after the taxman! (Yikes!)
{{{{Jane}}}}
I like and trust PayPal (though it takes its cut of stuff passing thru it). It’s easy and clean for a webbie like me.
Until you folx figure a way to have PayPal “do” subscriptions, I’ll just try to keep remembering to send you my pittance via PayPal every month.
One way I’d like to see it be done is to have PayPal send me an email reminding me that it’s time for me to approve the current month’s pledge to FDL. After receiving it, I would then login to my PP account and approve the invoice… That’d work (for me at least) :)
I’m covered for March… but hey, it’s April already!
Has FDL gotten its Pulitzer Prize yet? And if not, why not? :)
Let’s put it this way…we CANNOT afford to lose you. What you do is way too important!
TSF: I’ll defer to jane for most of your questions, but my understanding from the last time I spoke with her was that the automated slug at the bottom of the CIA Leak case posts generated a wee bit more donation, but not all that much. That’s separate from the question of what came in after any specific appeals from the body of a blog post, and I just don’t know.
The anecdotal feedback, and the history suggest, that if we don’t talk about it, it doesn’t happen. Putting “wallpaper” appeals into the site help, but are not enough.
Once nice thing about the voluntary subscription model is that is means we can ask at a point in time and not have to ask again for a while, so we’re not interrupting the flow.
I think what I’d like to do is experiment with autorenewals but with a reminder notice when renewal time is coming, so people can click through and opt out again, but maybe I need to survey that, as some people might not want that level of automation.
The other option is an email when it’s renewal time to ask for an affirmative renewal action, but that also has its downsides: people miss their emails, etc.
But if honoring the value of the contributions of the people who make this place run is going to be more than talk, we have to talk about the importance of it, and not just rely on accessible but effectively invisible buttons on the page, etc.
Plus, if we can do something like, for example, pay a sales agent to drum up better advertising revenue, perhaps sharing that person with a few sister sites, then we could do even more by way of projects, book publishing, speakers bureau, etc.
There are many additional options we can pursue, but it all begins with the first steps I outlined above.
The main thing I worry about with a subscription model is that if done badly (as at Salon) it will close out the access of this information to a wider audience. And we need the wider audience. The grassroots work, labor projects, etc etc. A subscription model might well hamper that. On the other hand the per-project appeals would dovetail with the grassroots work. Give even casual readers a chance to get involved at least at some level.
The other thing about moving beyond paypal is its structure makes it very hard to be more proactive in thanking people or notifying them of new initiatives.
A new backbone would give us the infrastructure to more easily manage our communications with the support community. I’ve heard some people express a little frustration that they don’t hear back from us when they contribute, and they’re right, we need to get that part right. But we lack the infrastructure to do that well at this point.
Pach — thank you so much for putting all of this together. It’s truly illuminating in so many ways. One of the strengths of our community is that so many caring, wonderful, very hard-working people are willing to roll up their sleeves and pitch in to do work that desperately needs to be done. That we can find people willing to do this without all the bells and whistles that the right-wing think tanks and big money foundations provide so many on the other side of the aisle is a testament to this being something to which we are all committed…whatever it takes.
But the businessperson in me, as well as the committed progressive who wants people to be valued properly on all levels, wants us to be able to pay a living wage for the enormous amount of work that people put in here every day. I know this is often an anathema thought on liberal blogs — but having had a granny who had to work three jobs to buy back her own home when my grandpa ran off with his secretary has given me a very keen appreciation for how important it is to have a decent paycheck for a hard day’s work doing something that can make a difference can change someone’s life.
Personally, I am very lucky in that Mr. ReddHedd and I have worked hard and put ourselves on decent footing financially, so I’m not destitute doing this full time. But financial stability does not mean that my ideas are better than someone else’s, and I don’t want us to lose the voices of those folks who cannot afford to put in several hours a day writing about their needs and the political processes that need to be put into play in order for them to be acheived. (It’s my same gripe about internships in the halls of power — that we need the voices of all levels of society, not just the folks who have the resources not to starve themselves — merit, not financial standing, ought to be a big factor in that. No one should have to starve to participate in political discussion. Not that they are forced to here, or anything, but too often that sort of ascetic ethic is put up as wonderful — well, it sucks if you have kids to feed, let me tell you.)
Anyway, all this to say, this is a great first step in us taking a look at all of the many possibilities. And the best part is getting everyone’s views in the process. Thank you, everyone. And huge thanks to Pach!
I think Pa ypal should be an option.
The objective would be to find other options for those less comfortable with it.
I am toying with setting up a regular autopay from my bank to the snail mail address.
(My bank offers free ‘bill pay’.
Pachacutec @ 52
could actblue be extended to include progressive blogs and other projects (that are not candidate fundraising specific or PACs)?
selise: there are, as I understand it, legal barriers. Not that I understand it, but there you go.
Pachacutec @ 56
thanks for the response…. too bad, since alot of the work (technology-wise) has already been done… i’m a great fan of not reinventing the wheel. and if a wheel needs to be invented, it might as well be a wheel everyone can use.
How about a thermometer that reflects the monthly funding goal to run the site. That would include infrastructure costs plus paying the people. I would guess that very few of us have any idea how much it costs to run FDL. It would start at zero at the beginning of each month and have a number at the top with a needed dollar amount for that month. Also continue the special projects thermometers.
I also think that some financial feedback on how the operational money is spent would also help to motivate people to give. The social/political value of FDL should now be obvious; and to expect Jane, Christy and the others to continue to subsidize with money and time isn’t right.
I think Jane hates to ask for money, so I guess Pach is going to be the money nag. I know, for me, nagging helps to overcome inertia.
neokneme @
35
And if there’s an interesting thread going, you can blow off the new one and stay with the old. As a number of us did last night while we talked/reminisced about life in Hawaii.
I don’t think that this is an appropriate topic for this blog. ;)
This is just one of the very many, very large reasons we need FDL so much!
How else do we address the issues as a citizenry as opposed to powerless victims of an authoritarian regime?
Folks who take the time and effort to speak out can stop the Republican power grab. It takes a country!
(Not that a merchant account is bad or anything! “~})
Kathleen -
I love your idea. Alas, as I live in the Speaker’s district, I don’t think she will be persuaded by our contacts – especially those from outsside her district. Speaker Pelosi knows she will win re-election, no matter what the House does with funding for Iran.
War is the continuation of politics by other means
Though I hope Congress finds the wisdom to forbid funds or resources in military action against Iran, we need a plan B.
Fast.
Impeachment hearings won’t happen fast enough to shut the April – June Iran attack window.
I don’t see Justice Stevens granting standing for citizens or legislators to pre-emtively forbid military action without formal Congressional Declaration of War, so the Judiciary doesn’t have much to offer us.
Hmm –
Legislative: no go.
Executive: no go.
Judicial: no go.
We’re fucked, right?
Nope.
War is the extension of politics by other means.
Sy Hersh and others have honorably carried warning from General Staff level Pentagon offciers for over a year warning of the looming Iran War.
A significant proportion of senior Pentagon staff oppose the Iran War. The unusual dissent shown up in reports that Iran War planning s unusually centralized in the JCS – thus cutting down on internal dissent.
The Pentagon is so divided on this issue that senior staff couldn’t fully trust other senior staff.
Great news for us.
We don’t need to ask the General Staff to violate the law or – Goddess forbid – take military action (or coups) against duly authorized civilian leadership.
We just need – we merely need – to remind them to
- Honor the Uniform Code of Military Justice and the United States Code.
- Honor their Oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States (and all the dry bits about binding treaties).
To put it broadly, the General Staffs’ Oaths to uphold the Constitution bind them to honor international treaties forbiding agressive war and crimes against humanity. The Constitution also demands Congressional Declaration of War.
We the people can come to the aid of the honorable General Staff officers surrounded by the Bushies.
Not by marching on the Pentagon, but by beseeching them.
Hundreds of thousands of emails, thanking our senior officers for their service, explicitly outline their obligations under Oath and international law, and concluding with the citizens reminder that their Congressional Representative has never voted for a Declaration of War against Iran.
Closing with the reminder that our officers’ duty and sacred honor REQUIRE THEM NOT TO OBEY ILLEGAL ORDERS TO KILL.
Leave off the obvious threat about Nuremberg-style trials (making people defensive won’t serve this purpose).
The purpose of individual emails to the General Staff and senior planning commands is to provide support to those who oppose the Ian War and to those who have not yet dared oppose it.
They let Sy Hersh know of their war. Let’s support our General Staff – in keeping us out of Iran.
Hard to plan for the extension of politics when the voters personally tell you the plan is illegal – and they never voted for it.
And they remind of your values, cause they believe in them – and you.
And that’s why they know you won’t help attack Iran.
_________________________________
Tech note -
This sort of public campaign is easy, and can be started in one working day. Easily available ingredients:
1. Collection of relevant DOD email addys.
2. Interface where Mary T. Voter and Bob D. Resident can just ask for a Pentagon decison maker’s email addy – any addy.
Interface window pops up with addy, Mary/Bob enter their message, hit send, and someone at DOD finds a citizen email – or many emails.
Interface keeps track of contacted officers, and ensures equal emails/officer.
(Ideally, interface has profanity filters).
3. “Keep your Oath for America” campaign/publicity. Some good title with a hook (better than my cheese), then let it go out over the progressive orchestra.
Complaints from DOD about “intrusive email” will help with publicity. So expect this assistance from our allies within the Pentagon.
4. Inform military based allies of the “Keep Your Oath For America”
5. Treat benign off-message participants briefly as allies. Should they persist or turn toxic, block their IP’s. The more success you have, the more disruption you’ll get. Planning for disruption now helps protect the message and plan the interface.
6. Have fun! Who knew you’d be coming to relieve surrounded Generals and Admirals and Colonels and Commanders?
[Oh yeah - except for message specific content, all the other tools ahve already been created, tested, and used by progressive social change groups. The interfaces were designed for use in corporate campaigns, but can just as well use DOD emails. Labor groups seemed to have the best interfaces (compared to enviro groups.]
Kathleen @
18
OT, but I am SO disgusted!
US House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Sunday evening that she would not rest until the kidnapped Israeli soldiers return home.
During a speech she gave at the Knesset in the presence of the families of soldiers Ehud Goldwasser, Eldad Regev, Gilad Shalit, Guy Hever and Zachary Baumel, Pelosi presented the soldiers’ ID tags, which were given to her by their families.
According to Karnit Goldwasser, wife of Ehud Goldwasser, Pelosi “said that she carries the chain and tags with her to all of her meetings and starts every conversation by presenting the tags and talking about Udi (Ehud) and his friends.”
Since those soldiers were captured in territory disputed between Syria, Lebanon and Israel (so like what happed in the Shatt al-Arab last week, eh?), the Israeli military has killed about 1,300 people in Lebanon, Gaza and the West Bank. Over half were women and kids, the vast majority innocents caught by IDF bombardments or crossing IDF mine or clusterbomb fields. Pelosi voted to re-stock Israel’s cluster bomb inventory, even after the IDF used 90% of their existing cluster bomb inventory AFTER terms of the August, 2006 cease-fire were agreed upon and announced. Those bomb fields have now killed over 25 people and maimed many more. None were Hizbollah, by any accounts.
Shame on you, Nancy Pelosi! I sympathize with those soldiers’ families, but when, when, WHEN will an American political leader in power, ever, ever EVER acknowledge the humanity of Lebanese and Palestinian civilians caught in this awful game in a way similar to what Pelosi did yesterday in Tel Aviv?
Never… Being Arab (or Moslem) IS the new Anti-Semitism.
Mack @ 45
I believe that used to be the rule for Congressional Committees. That’s when during the Commie witch hunts and the Mafia hearings people couldn’t even answer what their name was. If a person answered one question and refused another, they could be held in contempt of Congress. It was a very abusive practice. The rule was changed 70’s?
By way of example of how much good FDL does, I’d like to briefly resurrect an important matter from a previous thread… I wouldn’t have conceived of the notion of writing the following letter if it hadn’t been for the inspiration and community of FDL. That previous thread may have resulted in hundreds of letters like mine. Thank You FDL.
I just sent this via the USSnail. The salutation and physical address is the correct one, from that previous FDL thread at
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..-to-reggie .
If you follow suit, please put the “In Re:”… on the bottom of the envelope too, to facilitate the sorting of the Judge’s mail.
In Re: Sentencing of I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby Jr.
April 1, 2007
Dear Judge Walton,
I am just an American Citizen with no other relationship to my Government or anyone in it. I feel it is my patriotic duty to express an opinion in this matter.
Libby was convicted of obstruction of justice in an extraordinarily important case, one involving the probable treason (as I see it; legal definitions aside) of exposing a covert CIA operative and her network, for the purposes of political revenge. If he or anyone were to have been convicted of the latter crime, a judge would probably be mulling the death penalty.
For obstructing the probe into that heinous crime (which MUST have been committed by someone) I say that he should receive the heaviest possible sentence, irrespective of prior record or previous position.
Thank you for your consideration of my views.
Very truly yours,
i commented on a previous post about this-
don’t mind paypal, i use it, no problems yet.
don’t want anything that i have to click through ads if i’m not a ‘member’
don’t want anything that takes too long to load (slate)
i contribute when i can, and feel it should be free for others, i wouldn’t have stayed if i had to jump through hoops to do so.
don’t want anything by my name denoting that i’m a ‘member’
‘members only’ stuff is a turn-off and wouldn’t entice me to donate, if i already didn’t and would make me think twice if you do that here. it’s either for everyone or it isn’t.
i like the free-flowing comments section and different subjects of posts, agree that a de-lurk once a month would be a good idea….
i read things a lot of times well after they’ve been posted, so the epu comments are a part of the dialogue as far as i’m concerned..
donate 2.95 to astrofish.net, a friend who does horoscopes, any monthly donation much above that, i wouldn’t donate money above and beyond if i’m already tied in, so i suggest you keep the monthly low, and can donate when i have more money each month above and beyond the monthly.
many people are on limited incomes, i am one of them, but there are times when i can maneuver money in a direction that matters. i would aim it toward fdl, and have. i know that there are many on here who are in the same boat, but contribute much/only through their comments, that is as good as money in my book, and they ought not to be forgotten here and not excluded in what the site offers to people.
and an acknowledgment when you donate (email confirmation) would be nice. did a person actually get my money????????????? did it matter?
and i want a roots project t-shirt for me and my dad and will keep bringing it up until i get them………ha
Ed*ard Teller @ 63
amen, amen, amen.
and this after her speech at a*p*c…. she is NOT helping the cause of peace for israelis and palestinians.
RT, I very much regret that you or anyone was told off for EPUing. I can’t understand anyone’s reson for doing that, and I apologize you were treated that way.
Over the last year, the Lake has made a deliberate effort to let “epu’d” threads know a new thread had started. [This began when those unknowingly “left” on an epu’d thread asked to me informed of new threads.]
I do see commenters observing a new thread has started and invited folks “up”.
When this happens, I sure hope it doen’t send the message that sharing on EPU’s threads is somehow not OK.
I do admit I’m not neutral hers – I like being able topost comments on epu’d threads. With comments as wordy a smine can be, I fear putting them on current thread would be rude – too much text!
Thanks for letting folks know of your experience – hope you might consider stayin about and continuing to play inou public policy discussions.
RT @ 27
Well call me cynical if you wish, but I don’t see an evenhanded approach to the Isreali-Palestinian issue whether the Democrats win or lose in 2008. Gore might do it, (be more fair) as would Kucinich, but as for the rest, forget it.
clue me in, why would Kos of DailyKos attack Obama, see
“Obama caves to Bush
by kos”
??????
It’s a marvelous image… I want one too…[cafe press meet roots project]
Oklahoma kiddo @ 69
sadly, i would call you realistic. looks like it is up to us to educate our congress critters and and fellow citizens that we are NOT helping anyone with our current bipartisan policy. but, ultimately, it make require addressing the military industrial complex directly.
Ed*ard Teller @ 63
This is partially, or, exactly why I am not on the Speaker’s bandwagon.
It is unjust. More genocide and apartheid.
and i forgot to say–
my subscription to my friend’s website-astrofish.net
is through paypal, it is automatic and i have to cancel if i don’t want it to be deducted, i get an email saying that it is going to be deducted from my checking acct……..i would want the same thing here……i don’t want to go in and say ok each month and seems you would lose people doing it that way….
Am reading Richard Clarke’s new “fiction” Breakpoint. Very disturbing. Highly recommend.
kirk murphy, thank you your 62
Thanks, Pach, for doing all the work that makes such a survey possible.
angie @ 73
Speaking of which, we have this little gem.
Frankly, I can only think of one man alive today who might conceivably be less qualified to call for a regional peace conference in the Middle East. No, no prizes for guessing.
Anyone else see this? Has it been discussed yet? Is it true? If so, the implications are horrific.
http://rawstory.com/showarticl…..1828/16663
Our Speaker, carrying water for the Israeli government (message to Syria saying the Israelis won’t deal w/Palestinians until Syria stops supporting Palestinian freedom fighters) is a bit unsettling. Besides, isn’t that a little like the Palestinians telling the U.S. to stop it’s financial and weapons support for Israel, and that Palestine will not deal with Israel until the Israelis stop what they’re doing in the West bank and Gaza? Former President Carter has it right on this whole mess.
I just went to the Toyota and Honda stock pages on google and left them my take on why they should advertise on FDL, KOS, America Blog and Crooks and Liars I tried to make each message different and I’m hoping someone in managment reads their own stock pages occasionaly and responds. I’m trying to think of other companies to target and what approach to use. I’m also testing to see how media savy these companies are the faster they reply even if its in the negative the better I will feel about owning these companies stock. Of Course I will feel MUCH BETTER if they advertise here!
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqc…..s2007aqbk/
Earthquake……
Tsunami Warning Hawaii…west coast ok
Pakilolo
A’57 @
79
The Dems need to get on the stick and stop this NOW!
I’ll subscribe on one stipulation…more Gaydar posts! ;)
here goes…
Why did Great Britain and the US/UN have any right to assign any lands belonging to others (who hold now meaningless deeds in the eyes of the mighty– they are refugees and their children and grandchildren are too) now?
Why on earth would we continue to sit by while others occupy and imprison them anyway?
If our collective guilt was so great after the H*locaust, how come we didn’t welcome the survivors of that tragedy into our own homes with open arms?
How come a religious state was established with our assent and we still call it a democracy?
Why don’t we embrace the Iraqis, Afghans, Palestinians, Lebanese, Sudanese, Somalians, and so many others that are fleeing for their lives?
btw, @ 8pm EDT on cspan:
In case I didn’t say this when I had the chance to comment while doing the survey:
I start my day with the blogs. FDL is the last one I read because it is the one whose posts usually require my complete attention. The others blogs? I can skim through them quickly and go on my way.
If for some reason I don’t have time to read this blog in the morning I feel lostand uninformed the rest of the day:-)
Keep up the good work and thank you.
I would definitely support. A one year subscription (suggestions for diff amounts by diff annual income, based on people deciding what they can do) would be great.
What I have to do now is go over to the paypal/visa ad on the right and go through whatever to support you guys. What I’d like to do instead is hit a button at the bottom of each post so I can contribute when I’ve read something that keeps me coming back to this site and, at the same time, let you know when you’ve struck a chord.
Pach- thanks for all of your work on this survey.
A couple of people here, and on the thread when you did the survey, mentioned the idea of having names be highlighted according to subscription level. And, a few said no to this.
Knowing FDL as I do, I doubt that distinguishing between subscribers and non-subscribers was ever in the mix of thinking behind the scenes.
I would like to add my voice to those who have objected to this idea- it gives the wrong message. The value of the commenters and the comments has nothing to do with their financial ability to support FDL.
So, I just read all this, and noticed that I didn’t even know this survey took place. Also, I had no idea there was a PayPal link. Not that it would have helped me donate in the past; I loathe PayPal.
How could I overlook something so obvious (to me anyway)? Well, to be frank, I only use Google Reader to read blogs. I read a lot of them, and it’s really frustrating to me to have 99% of the content available in the feed, but then to hear something like “the current drive to help complete the creation and design of the Roots Project (see the thermometer on the right side of this page)”. I don’t get to see that (unless I click through, which I generally do NOT).
Am I willing to donate? Yes indeed. Paypal? Not on your life. So, I respectfully suggest doing fundraising via articles (that subscribers don’t need to see, unless they want to).
Thoughts?
I forgot to mention that I have no problem with Paypal. I have been using it since it was first created and use it now mainly for Ebay payments (both to and from me)although I also have a monthly subscription to another blog of sorts. Would love to do a monthly to FDL as well as needed fundraisers.
inmymind’seye @ 76
thank you for seeing it that way….
I’m concerned about clutterin’ up the Lake…
____________________________
things come undone @ 83
The Dems need to get on the stick and stop this NOW!
Thank you both for bringing this up today.
A few days ago egregious and others predicted Abu’s “kiddie ‘net p**n” campaign is really a feint to suppress the ‘Net.
After seeing that article, I completely agree.
Thanks for keeping this in view at the Lake.
eyesonthestreet @ 70
I believe because Obama said something like: Congress will continue funding the war without the withdrawal date for troops if the chimp vetoes the bills that were passed. Chump. Chimp’s chump.
If this has already been said, I apologize: I skipped down to comment rather than reading my way down.
What you’re doing here is reinventing journalism as a cooperative, community endeavor. (I’m sure it’s already been said many times, and probably more felicitously.)
This is good. It may be our salvation. I hope so.
gbearMN @ 60
‘gbear’, as in ‘golden bear’?
Thanks for the reminders Pach, I know it’s not glamorous to ask for funding. But I agree completely with the comment above that we cannot afford to lose this site. Though I run on the broke side, I’ve squeezed out funds before and intend to do so again. I would also be willing to donate something monthly.
And Kirk Murphy, I really enjoy your comments too.
Obama’s pledge
Here’s a link (sorry not too elegantly done) to Obama’s comments re the budget and troop withdrawal.
I love it here. What ever you decide. I humbly bow to the lake. lolo
Oh….thanks so much for all the hard work…..
bonkers @
84
ROFL.
wini @ 95
Nope, I don’t live all that far from Concordia, but the g is for garden (althought I’m the type of bear where the g could be for gaydar too. More gaydar postings!).
Also, thanks to the powers that be for this great site. I did donate for the first time a couple weeks ago. I’ll try to make it a habit. Maybe I’ll just do it once a year when I renew my MPR membership. That’s the system that would work best for me.
Another survey-taker/non-commenter delurking to say thank you, Pach. It’s nice to see the results and heartening to know the willingness to give is out there.
One thing I wanted to respond to, because I feel strongly about it, is the proposal to denote “more generous” contributors with some sort of special recognition or premium content. Like dmac @ 66, I hope FDL can reach its goals without going this route.
It seems as though that kind of dollar-based stratification, even in thanks, can only undermine what FDL is doing. It’s what we’re working to end, in a way, and this site gives me hope every day that we’ll succeed. Thanks for all you make it possible for us do, and for asking us how best to support it.
I missed the survey, but thanks for reminding me to send in my donation. You can consider me delurked.
Hey NewOrleansLady! Welcome aboard!
And thank you for donating – we really appreciate the help!
The conversation has moved upstairs – hope you’ll join us!
I’m a retiree who is no longer working. I have cut my political financial contributions considerably since my retirement. I have, however, given to Firedoglake, and will continue to do so.
I can’t tell you how much your timely, honest, and on-the-mark reporting is appreciated. Thanks so much from an “inside-the-Beltway” person who is so fed up with the MSM and the mess we are in.
Susan – Thank you so much for your support of FDL! It’s great to have you here!
Wow, have I been in a cave? I missed the survey!? I’m glad you did it. I’m very glad to hear you’re likely to put a subscription model out, and also continue with the special projects fundraising. I’m sure to subscribe, and would also give to special projects.
Christy, great comments above, agree whole heartedly.
Thank you all for developing and sustaining this wonderful place.
Thank you for this condensation of the results of your survey. I will give as much as I can as often as I can to FDL. I am intrigued by the results of this survey, in part because I see where I “fit” in the FDL readership.
Thank you, Pach. Best wishes, Jane.
I missed the call to complete the survey, it appears, but I agree about Paypal being a problem. There are enough reports about them out there that I was already suspicious. Then, when I was filling out the credit card form, I noticed that the phone number is a required field. In this state, and quite a few others, they disallowed that requirement years ago. Yet Paypal still insists on you giving it to them. Yet another reason not to trust them, I’d say.
I have used a credit card online several times before, and PayPal are the only ones to require your phone number.
I love your site, or is it a blogsite? I especially have a warm spot for the excellent coverage of the Libby trial.
I love Atrios, Rising Hegemon, DailyKos, and others.
I also like John Edwards, Hilary, (sorta) Frank Rich, Paul Krugman, Truthout and a lot more sites.
So many places need money. I carry two newspaper subscriptions, three magazine subscriptions, and want to support everyone.
If I can figure out how to not pay my income taxes and support you and all these other fine freedom loving spokespersons, I intend to do so.
One way to recognize donors is with a separate page, like the way the opera and the symphony do, with pages of donors in the program. Arts groups usually segregate by level of giving.
1) Tip Jar: Sounds like a good idea to me. Use a little icon, then its not intrusive to those who don’t think its a great idea. Pretty cool. Monetary measure of the scoring like DailyKos or the “was this review helpful to you” at Amazon.
2) Yes, get a credit card merchant account. When I donated during Plame House I was dismayed that PayPal deducted directly from my bank account even though I had a “primary” card registered with them. This is because at some point(ebay?) they forced me to setup a verified bank account, and that is considered, what, primary primary? Screw their inflexibility and their close relationship with ebay.
vox clamantis in red state @ 109
I hear you. But maybe all you need is The Nation, and your localy independent media website…and FDL!
I responded, but did not comment and I’m glad to see the results. Maybe because I’m in advertising/PR, I’m comfortable with the Salon model; I read Greenwald there all the time now. But the other options are fine, and I agree about PayPal, easier-to-find donation spot, shopping-cart options for donation levels (ACLU does this in mail campaign), etc.
I’m a multiple-daily viewer, rare commenter, love the site, love the snark, love the passion, love the great research, love the values, truly love the writing.
Please keep up the great work….oh, LOVE Jane, hope she’s doing well…would it be wrong to mention what a hottie she is, too? Oh well, too late. Thanks.
Pach we use Click and Pledge for our donation and membership. They want to support Democratic organizations.
http://www.clickandpledge.com/
Subject:
The play.
Okay, so they do it off campus….how about way off campus….like off Broadway? If it’s really that good, why not?
Guess I’ma dummy; I thought the ads generated sufficient income. How DOES clicking through the ads generate income? A cut to FDL if one makes a purchase?
To those who missed the survey, it was only up one day…brief.
Pach, as I read down through the comments, I realized that this is not a bad medium for a brainstorming session. There is so much interplay, and ideas are developed in fruitful and sometimes unpredictable ways. In the survey you invited our ideas about ways that FDL could drum up funding. Why don’t you open a thread so we could all brainstorm it together? We might go some interesting places, with each other to use as sounding boards.
One option is the voluntary recurring subscription model, and the specific example in the survey was $5 per month. People like that idea. There was some input in the comments that $60 a year is a little high for them, and the key here is the subscription model is voluntary: content currently available to all would remain available to all.
How about this (if the site software could be made to handle it, that is): Assign each $5 donor a password, valid for a month and linked to their username. Then, whenever an identified donor posts a comment, the software tags the comment with some sort of “Donor” identifier — an image of a gold star or a medal or a moneybag or a glittering coin or a pile of dirty greenish paper, whatever. No other special privileges, just the icon attached to comments, and the icon stays with the comment whether that person donates again later or not.
I’m thinking that if there were some tangible reward for donating, privileged access to the site for instance, I’d be forced to consider each time whether the reward was going to be worth it: “Well, I haven’t really felt like commenting much lately — so why don’t I wait to donate till I’m more likely to get my money’s worth?” If the “reward” is something totally worthless, however, like a hokey little icon next to my username, I’m going to be a lot more likely to donate just for the fun of it.
I don’t have any problem with Paypal. it is convenient for me and I’ve never had problems in the past. (Is there something I should know about?)
I would be unlikely to pay through any other method. But on the other hand, since my family is having some financial difficulty, I can’t say that I’m going to be contributing gobs. However I would like to have the option if/when things improve. thanks
kirk murphy @
68
Thanks, Kirk, I appreciate. But isn’t it pretty easy for people to tell that a new thread has begun? All one has to do is refresh the main FDL page. And why is it important to know? Why should it matter?
I mean, there’s no point in commenting on two-day-old posts, because nobody’s reading the comments anymore. But other than that…
There’s something about the way this community operates that is just sideways to me. There’s nothing wrong with that, I’m kinda sideways to a lot of things. It just means I should hang out somewhere else. So I read the posts here that interest me, but pretty much skip the comments.
But if you don’t mind, WTF does ‘EPU’ mean?
Pachacutec @
39
Yes, that is one big reason. No sooner had I opened an account with them then I was bombed by both real and phising email and junkmail. Then, when the credi card expiration passed (their “security”) I was bombed twice as much by both. There is just something wrong with their system. It LEAKS email addresses.