
(Photo via Morgan Tepsic.)
Guess which story just sprouted a hundred new legs, all of them connected to media types within the Beltway that sat up and discovered it with one giant whiff of the Fifth Amendment yesterday:
The senior counselor to Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales will refuse to testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee in the unfolding U.S. attorneys scandal, invoking her Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination, her attorneys said today.
Monica M. Goodling — who is on an indefinite leave of absence from Gonzales's office — also said that at least one senior Justice Department official blames her for failing to fully brief him prior to a Senate appearance, leading to "less than candid" testimony.
That game of pass the political buck just isn't fun any longer, is it Mr. McNulty? Especially when flinging all that poo in the air ultimately meant that you wound up with a lap full. Especially when your boss, the United States Attorney General is floating the "pure heart empty head" defense. (Which, as any prosecutor worth anything can tell you, is useless — ignorance of the law is no excuse. H/T to Michael Froomkin for catching this bit of idiocy. One wonders how the GOP whisper set could possibly be floating rumors that Gonzales is incompetent, doesn't one?) And according to ABCNews this morning, it looks like Mr. McNulty may be the designated fall guy of the moment:
The official, Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty, ignored White House Counsel Harriet Miers and senior lawyers in the Justice Department when he told the committee last month of specific reasons why the administration fired seven U.S. attorneys — and appeared to acknowledge for the first time that politics was behind one dismissal. McNulty's testimony directly conflicted with the approach Miers advised, according to an unreleased internal White House e-mail described to ABC News. According to that e-mail, sources said, Miers said the administration should take the firm position that it would not comment on personnel issues.Until McNulty's testimony, administration officials had consistently refused to publicly say why specific attorneys were dismissed and insisted that the White House had complete authority to replace them. That was Attorney General Alberto Gonzales' approach when he testified before the committee in January.
But McNulty, who worked on Capitol Hill 12 years, believed he had little choice but to more fully discuss the circumstances of the attorneys' firings, according to a a senior Justice Department official familiar the circumstances. McNulty believed the senators would demand additional information, and he was confident he could draw on a long relationship with New York Sen. Chuck Schumer, a Democrat, in explaining in more detail, sources told ABC News.
In doing so, however, McNulty went well beyond the scope of what the White House cleared him to say when it approved his written testimony the week before the hearing, according to administration sources closely involved in the matter.
As a reader wrote to me this morning, "They're going after McNulty, tossing him to wolves. Selective leak of WH e-mail could be construed as waiver. If McNulty has any brains he'll demand release of all of them to show complete picture." Absolutely right. And I'd bet that McNulty has copies of quite a few of those stashed away for just such an occasion — because you don't work in a nest of vipers without keeping a little "antivenom" on hand, just in case. (Or, if you don't plan ahead, you are an idiot.)
Huge kudos go out to Sen. Pat Leahy, who had this to say after learning that Goodling would take the 5th before his Senate Judiciary Committee:
It is disappointing that Ms. Goodling has decided to withhold her important testimony from the Committee as it pursues its investigation into this matter, but everybody has the constitutional right not to incriminate themselves with regard to criminal conduct.
The American people are left to wonder what conduct is at the base of Ms. Goodling’s concern that she may incriminate herself in connection with criminal charges if she appears before the Committee under oath.
Sen. Leahy, you see, also used to be a prosecutor back in the day.
And Sen. Leahy is more than familiar with the 5th Amendment as a result, and knows that it cannot be invoked unless or until the person invoking it feels that they will be incriminating themselves with regard to specific criminal conduct, not just some vague possibility for the White House laying its own perjury trap for underlings to keep Rove and Gonzales safe — unfortunately for Goodling, having snakes as colleagues and being worried that they will stab you in the back in a heartbeat to save themselves is NOT a valid reason to take the Fifth. The text of the Fifth Amendment in its entirety:
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation. (emphasis mine)
No fear of criminal implication against oneself, no 5th Amendment. Which means that Ms. Goodling can only invoke this if she fears that she has done something which is prosecutable under the law. No taking the 5th because you might embarrass yourself, your boss, or your political cronies — there has to be a connection to some criminal matter in order for it to be properly invoked. And no invoking it as a means to avoid testimony that might be difficult because you might have to rat out folks higher up on the crony chain — the law does not make exceptions for the powerful, nor does it make exceptions for the vindictive and nasty. Truth is truth. Period.
And no taking the 5th just because the mean old Senators and Congresspeople want to do their sworn Constitutional duty and provide oversight in the possibility that you and your peeps at the DoJ, and all the various and sundry minions in Rove's political shop decided that you could run the United States government as your own personal electioneering machine, regardless of the laws of this nation. Even Boss Tweed had to pay the piper for his corruption and graft in the end, and just because you work for the President's bestest buddy does not mean that you don't have to follow the law, too. (Hint: You work at the DoJ. Try hanging out in the law library and actually reading the books there. Start with a text on the Constitution — you clearly need a refresher.)
What does this say to me? It says that Ms. Goodling's attorney, one John Dowd, will begin negotiations with the Senate Judiciary Committee regarding the potential for Ms. Goodling to put up under cover of immunity. (Note to Mr. Dowd: if your letter to the committee chair was as snotty as it is rumored to have been, it's a nice public act to put on for the GOP cronies of your client while you negotiate behind the scenes, but you might want to back that down a notch because Pat Leahy is not the sort to put up with a lot of posturing crap for very long. Just FYI.) It also says to me that Ms. Goodling either has a nice cash stash, that someone else is footing her legal bills, or that Mr. Dowd is an old family friend, because a man with this background does not come cheaply to the negotiation table:
Mr. Dowd has prosecuted and defended significant criminal matters at trial and in parallel proceedings before Congress and regulatory agencies for more than 30 years. His practice focuses on the trial of complex civil and criminal cases.
Mr. Dowd is noted for his representation of a U.S. district judge, a former U.S. attorney and two U.S. senators. In addition, he represented a U.S. governor in a lengthy, high-profile criminal trial involving 23 counts charging false statements, wire fraud and attempted extortion.
Mr. Dowd has represented a U.S. senator before the Department of Justice and the Senate Ethics Committee; a U.S. Army colonel in the Iran Contra Hearings; a U.S. senator before the Senate Ethics Committee; and a U.S. governor in litigation with the Resolution Trust Corporation and in a fact-finding hearing before the House Subcommittee on General Oversight and Investigations, Committee on Banking, Finance and Urban Affairs, which inquired into the failure of the savings and loan industry. He has served as an arbitrator for the International Court of Arbitration of the International Chamber of Commerce in Paris.
You tell me — do you hire an attorney with this level of legal experience for no reason, because you just randomly picked a name out of Martindale-Hubbell? I didn't think so. You hire this sort of attorney because you need all of what he knows and what he has done. Because a man with this level of expertise knows a lot about the law, and about how Washington works, and there is definitely some strategic dance in the works that will become more and more apparent as we watch it unfold. The lawyers in the audience can back me up on this: this sort of experience does not come cheaply, and it is often hired for very specific reasons — and, in Ms. Goodling's case, I can think of an awful lot of potential reasons. How about you guys?
But wait, there is more. Readers at TPM have reviewed the letter and come to the same conclusion that I have (H/T to Phoenix Woman for the link on this). Josh is absolutely correct that the best defense against a perjury indictment is to simply be honest, and I agree with him that Goodling's problem has more to do with the fact that the White House hasn't yet decided where the line for honesty lies on this one. From Josh:
Now, one more point. Above I said 'almost' the whole argument. On page two of the letter, Goodling's lawyer asserts as the fourth reason for her refusal to testify that "it has come to our attention that a senior Department of Justice official has privately told Senator Schumer that he (the official) was not entirely candid in his report to the Committee, and that the official allegedly claimed that others, including our client, did not inform him of certain pertinent facts."
His name isn't stated. But this appears to be a reference to Deputy Attorney General McNulty, the subject of this post from earlier this evening. Here we finally appear to have a bad act that Goodling believes or at least claims may expose her to criminal prosecution — lying to Congress by proxy by intentionally misinforming an official about to testify before Congress.
Just watching this from the outside, it looks as though that is the bad act she's afraid to testify about or — and somehow I find this more believeable — she's afraid of indictment for perjury because she has to go up to Congress and testify under oath before the White House has decided what its story is. And yeah, I'd feel like I was in jeopardy then too.
And that seems to me to be the crux of the problem for Ms. Goodling: the cover story hasn't been settled on this one, and in a fluid situation where telling the truth can get you in trouble with the vindictive pit of vipers that work in "Rove's shop," she'd rather not have to be honest, thank you very much. Except that isn't what the law provides, and I'm certain that her lawyer is more than aware of that — and that folks on the Judiciary Committees in both houses of Congress are more than aware of this as well. So, why the public feint? Again, I think it's a maneuver to buy some time for behind-the-scenes negotiations. But I'm going to do some more digging on this.
While we are at it: huge kudos to Rep. Henry Waxman who sent out a lovely note to the White House document folks reminding them of their legal responsibility to maintain and archive ALL e-mails, even those using an non-WH addy, and that Waxman would like to have a chat about just how many of those are being used. You know, while we're thinking about it. More from Justin Rood at ABC's The Blotter. And from emptywheel.
Ahhhh, I love the smell of oversight in the morning.
(Huge H/T to *xyz and to dzman49 for the heads up on some of this last evening. Much appreciated!)




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Surely you recall Christy that the Fifth Amendment has been expanded to include protecting Republicans not only against self-incrimination, but also to avoid being bothered?
And now for a bit of bad poetry: The Charge of the Wank Brigade
Yes, the smell of oversight in the morning.
Let’s all have a good one, starting with CHS.
Good morning Christy!
mornin’ Redd.
“No one could have anticipated consequences for the illegality of our actions.”
Wow. Just, wow.
Leahy and Waxman are doing a great job of showing the country what oversight is supposed to look like.
Olbermann said, last night, that there were 666 days left in the Bush administration. Heh.
“Ahhhh, I love the smell of oversight in the morning.” Christy.
Yes and its going to get even better. I think I’ll pull up a chair and watch this one unfold. Its going to get good.
TPM has a post up about whether or not Ms. Goodling is appropriately claiming the 5th amendment protection…maybe Senator Leahy should be having his staff look into the same question.
Morning all — here’s to another day filled with the drip, drip, drip of revelations. Nothing is more intriguing than sitting back and watching Bush Administration cronies turn on each other to save their own skins.
And it kinda shoots down the wingnuts argument that this is all just so much chaff. Nice.
Boy, I sure would like to be a fly on the wall in Karl Roves office for the following reasons.
1. Oversight
2. Oversight
3. Email dumps (3000 pages) that are data mined overnight.
4. Abu Gonzales
5. You have your math, I have mine
6. Throwing bodies at the bus
All I can see is the crazy old coot in the cartoons with the smoke pouring out of his ears (as well as American Flags) going cuckoo at the same time!
Were it not for the internet, these matters might never have come to light or moved so swiftly.
After so many years of near totalitarian rule, it feels almost like a dream to see these events unfolding.
The gratitude of ordinary citizens, trying to lead honest and decent lives cannot be put in words – for the bloggers such as tpm and your site and others, who have lifted the dung and kept it steaming in the air.
Good Morning Christy and Firedogs,
that’s a grand slam of a breakfast platter there Ms. Hardin-Smith, ooh a little bite here, some more of this one here, um, yummy :)
Tommy Yum – bwahaahaa – posted somewhere else
“no one could have anticipated the hordes of dirty stinkin’ hippies poring over the docs like wingers on a Scaife check”
And as the older lawyer in the bunch let me just chime in with one specific on our friend Mr. Dowd. One of those ’senators’ that he represented? Why none other than John ‘Straight Talk’ McCain, during the Keating 5 scandal back in the day. Bet Ol’ Straight Talk is gonna love John’s puss (and history) cropping up on our teevees right now
dratty at 14 — Yes, Mr. Dowd has quite the lengthy legal resume. Which truly says to me that Ms. Goodling has something she might want to say…but she wants some assurances prior to saying it. You getting that feeling, too?
Attaturk at 0 — Oh yes, I forgot about the smarmy GOP exception to all rules. Ahem. *g*
Waiver!!
The lawyers in the audience can back me up on this: this sort of experience does not come cheaply, and it is often hired for very specific reasons — and, in Ms. Goodling’s case, I can think of an awful lot of potential reasons.
So Dowd is a big-deal crim lawyer? Well, I’ve never heard of him before. Sometimes I think that attorneys may take a big case just to keep the name out there. A loss-leader, if you will, for big fees and speaking engagements down the road.
“Note to Mr. Dowd: if your letter to the comittee chair was as snotty as it is rumored to have been, it’s a nice public act to put on for the GOP cronies of your client while you negotiate behind the scenes, but you might want to back that down a notch because Pat Leahy is not the sort to put up with a lot of posturing crap for very long. Just FYI.”
I’m curious. What could Leahy do to Dowd if he continues using this “tone”?
In terms of creating ‘cover storys’ I find the following rather fascinating.
Gonzales in defending the ‘truthiness’ of his statement ‘I was not involved in the firings’ clarified by adding ‘what I actually meant was I was not involved in their decision whether to resign or not.
That’s his ‘cover story’ right?
Isn’t that transparently ludicrous?
‘Your honour what I meant to say about not being involved in the hold-up was that I was not involved in their decision whether to give me the wallet or not’
wtf?
I’d commented over at DailyKos:
Something about this scenario still does not make sense. If Harriet “Bush’s BGFF*” Miers was coaching staff to avoid commentary about personnel issues, why did this handout include those emails??
This entire story could have blown up even faster if anybody had actually read and then furnished a copy of those handouts to bloggers…in fact, I think we still need those handouts regardless of what we’ve seen so far in the document dumps because most of the Congressional material we’ve seen is in the form of letters and not emails. What else was in those emails? Who would they vindicate or accuse?
[*BGFF = Bestest Gal Friend Forevah!!]
jayt at 17
Sure you know John Dowd. He’s the guy who prepared the gambling report that got Pete Rose thrown out of baseball.
Very interesting. It also occurred to me that they may have wheeled in Dowd to run this particular interpretation of the 5th Amendment up the flag pole to see if anyone salutes because if it does, a lot of people are going to be using it thusly. All the more reason to say “nyet” in a big way.
Seems like the train is getting off of the “nothing improper in the dismissals” track, and we are beginning the “pass the popcorn” phase of what Jon Stewart would call yet another administration catastrof#*&k.
And good morning to all – I woke up WAY too early here in LA…
Read the NBC Interview transcript here where the circular firing squad has begun. McNulty is about to be thrown under the bus, and combine him with Gooding and we have the makings of an impeachable offense by the AG to be followed by a trial and possible jail time. Flip him and get Karl Rove in the same position, then flip Rove to get Cheney and Dubya. Ms. Pelosi becomes President by 2008 and we have the “Iraq Victory Parade” down wall street as the last troops come triumphantly home.
Hey, I can dream, can’t I…
The new Republican rule on testimony:
“I don’t wanna!” [stamp feet and pout]
Perhaps I’m being a bit simple here. If one has nothing to hide, and appreciates the truth, why ‘take the fifth’?
Morning Christy -
Yeah absolutely, it’s got immunity written all over it. I’m concerned though, with Leahy letting this bogus 5th claim go unchallenged, even if he knows it’s a negotiating ploy. I wouldn’t put it past the WH to tell ALL of the Justice Dept. employees to start using this excuse. While those of us in the business know that it wouldn’t last a second in court, its just the typical ludicrous talking point that the MSM airheads will use as a ‘debating point’. Frankly, if I’m the WH and I’m seeing how Leahy is handling this right now, I’m really pondering whether the strategy would be to keep everybody from testifying and fighting the spin war on this crap, as opposed to having my dirty laundry held out for all to see.
I might be overly concerned, but I’m heging my bets as to whether Sampson still testifies Thurs., his confirmation of same yesterday notwithstanding.
jayackroyd @ 21
Oh.
Well, that’s kind of prosecutorial, isn’t it?
As I said to friends and family recently:
1. The 2006 election was nothing short of a revolution.
2. The internet has the potential to take back Democracy from the lobbyists.
Jane Hamsher @ 22
Kinda makes one wonder if there is a “Save Monica!” defense fund website being set up even as I type this…
Nyet up the flag-pole
Liar-liars’ pants on fire
Nyet up the flag-pole
Dawn’s early light
Purple
Jane Hamsher @ 22
Well, it seems like such a non-starter, notwithstanding the soon-to-be well known Attaturk addendum to Amendment number 5, and the Mutant Poodle corollary, which is that the amendment as a whole is only applicable to Republicans in good standing.
Jane Hamsher @
22
I wonder if there’s that much coordination anymore. It seems more like a burning building.
And yet, Charlie Gibson is on Imus right now, saying that the US Atty story is just “inside the beltway” stuff and no one really cares.
Sigh. Excuse me while I find a cleared-off hard surface to bang my head on.
Christy,
This is really good stuff. That Leahy has a real New England flintiness about him, doesn’t he? The kind that New Hampshire articulates as “Don’t tread on me.”.
I warn before I bite, but I can bite.
These guys have been caught with their pants down because they never thought the blogosphere was capable of piecing together the narrative that connects the story.
Never underestimate the power of distributed computing. Isolated events arcross the US, emerging over weeks, can be unified into a single story. 3000 pages are analyzed in a overnight shift.
Not by reporters paid to get a few column inches out the door about something that the WH send over the fax. But hundreds of American geeks in their jammies caring desperately about their country and serving in the best way they can.
These guys can’t imagine the power of an informed citizenry. Too late, too bad, bye bye.
Wonderful post. I’m curious if this means anything: Dowd refers to “firing” in his letter as opposed to “resignations” used by AG.
i absolutely think you’re right, christy.
i think ms. goodling knows that being fully
honest about what she was asked to do may NOT
result in a criminal charge (at least against
her), but MAY lead to charges in the oval
office, or rove’s shop. . .
so she’s lawyered-up, with a big-gun,
white shoe akin gump partner. . .
more here. . .
Nola Sue @ 34
On CNN, the one reporter basically said that gonzogate is obviously a political move by the dems.
I view “taking the 5th” as more of a public relations problem than a legal problem — at least for Republicans in general.
You just don’t want DOJ/White House folks taking the 5th — it’s bad television for the GOP. Hard to put any lipstick on it at all.
What a post!
Did you write that whole thing this morning?
WOW.
Great job of pulling this all together, Christy. This is no longer drip, drip, drip. It’s splash, splash, dunk, splash. I thought Gonzo would be gonzo by last weekend, but I’m never right, and now I’m thinking the longer he stays, the worse they look.
jayackroyd @
21
And as a lifelong Cincinnati Reds fan, that’s reason enough to dislike the man. He is a partner at Akin Gump and I don’t think partners at any law firm at that level bill cheap.
Christy Hardin Smith @
15
This is what I think too. Everybody seems to be saying bad things about her, but I think that, by doing this, she’s telling everybody that there is a crime here, and at the same time saying, I can’t talk about it. She may feel this is her best option. It doesn’t just allow her to avoid the public hearings in Congress, but it would also put her a step away from being dissected by the Rove publicity machine.
It seems to me that this,
“the cover story hasn’t been settled on this one”
truly is the crux of the problem. There are far too many yarns to spin.
Waxman, Leahy et al have been in training for this for years. A good analogy is the training and practice for track and field events (i.e., when your event is the 400m, you train and train and train at 800m. Then when it’s race time, you sprint the 400m). The pace of the current events (read scandals)has accelerated like never before, thanks to the likes of Waxman, Leahy and other congressional oversight patriots, the internets, electronic technology, bloggers and, above all, the obnoxious arrogance of BushCo.
Harriet may have had the best plan. Who’d a thunk? I’m curious about what Monica earns and who’s paying the bill.
Christy Hardin Smith @
9
“The hard-nosed super-executives Nixon chose to run our country for us turned on each other like rats in a slumfire when the going got tough…” Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
‘morning, all… coffee is ready…
tastes good with a little oversight!
Alfred Kelgarries @
24
I’m not sure that Rove would ever flip. But who’s doing the BushCo wet work these days besides Rove?
Oklahoma kiddo @
26
One would think so anyway…But don’t forget, she got her law degree at Pat Robertson U.
dratty at 27 — There’s a very good reason that I wrote about this to start off the day today. Sometimes, some folks need a nudge.
Hi all!
Christy, while agree completely with your analysis — I really think it is a bad thing to go behind invocations of the fifth amendment. It is one of the striongest tools available to individuals who are facing a tyrranical power (executive or legislative). In Ms. Goodling’s case — I see a very real underlying crime which is the conspiracy to obstruct justice. That is, she briefed the AG amnd McNulty knowing that what they would testify to was a lie. This particular possibility is burried deep in her letter regarding her invocation — a strategy any good defense attorney would employ.
Of course, the response by Congress ought to be a simple grant of immunity. Actually, this may be what her defense counsel is actually angling for in his letter. Once immunity is granted, she has to testify or face contempt of Congress proceedings.
However, I would not grant any immunity until after Sampson testifies. Congress should let this soup boil a bit more before cutting testimony deals. With more informartion — her grant of immunity will ultimately be much more valuable.
FWIW
Oh, and Christy:
Turns out the GSA breaking-the-Hatch-Act scandal is tied to the US Attorneys’ purge scandal.
I love the smell of oversight in the morning! It smells of — accountability!
dakine01 @ 49
Logic reigns supreme: SHE HAS SOMETHING TO HIDE.
Nola Sue @ 34
Gibson doing his kindly grandfather-slightly-dotty routine this morning on that issue. Likewise on the v-armored vehicles…not knowing how effective they are. Maybe you should listen to your own news broadcast, Grandpa Charlie!
Don’t fret about the inside-the-beltway meme. That’s just shallow-thinking media stenoing the Rovian spin.
Also this morning on Imus, Rob Bartlett parodies “Fredo Gonzales” in a funny bit drawn from “The Godfather.”
Greenfield on this morning also, missed part, so I’m going to wfan.com Instant Replay later this morning to hear the full conversation. A grownup. No shallow puddle thinker he.
The Bartlett bit will be worth a listen, too!
Media types can muse this is just inside the beltway, but t’ain’t so.
Will Sampson’s testimony pull down the pillars?
sorry about all the typos, I am lefty hunting and pecking these days with a right elbow injury. Just pretend I am LHP. :~)
Good morning all,
I’ll catch up with ya’ll when I get to work, where I will get *nothing* done.
Again.
;-)
Alison @ 35
You know, it’s like they never heard of “open source” or “collaborative computing” before. These people are too inept and backwards to have been given the keys to our country; if they can’t keep up with average American citizens (a.k.a. “dirty f*cking hippies”), how are they going to outwit enemies of state with real whizbang know-how?
And 3000 pages combed overnight by tens of thousands of readers…I’ll bet they thought that only tens of thousands of folks were following the case, let alone tens of thousands actually “dumpster diving” through documents, hundreds of thousands reading and blogging the analysis the next morning, and MILLIONS reading those blogs before the end of the day’s news cycle.
Didn’t they learn anything from their own TANG document project?
Immanentize!!!!
Great to see you! Calendars at the ready for mid-April.
Redd,
Thanks for pointing out the obvious, which the establishment media is (predictably) overlooking:
I heard this from the reluctant witness’ attorney on Nice Polite Republicans (NPR) this a.m. and was absolutely pissed that it was reported completely out of context
In other words, she won’t testify because if she lies, she may be prosecuted. Hello!, THIS IS MERELY A STATEMENT OF THE LAW, IT IS NOT A FACTUAL BASIS SUPPORTING A 5th Am. CLAIM.
The letter cites cases where people have been prosecuted for the crime of perjury and obstruction, AFTER they testified under oath and lied. Since she has yet to testify, she has yet to commit the crimes for which she is seeking 5TH Am. protection. Rather, she is essentially preserving her Republican Entitled Right (RER) to obstruction by silence. In other words, she is doing contemptuously – withholding testimony – that which she is prohibited from doing under oath. She wants to affirmatively commit a crime rather than protect herself from a crime previously committed.
slainte,
cl
did we remember to buy our popcorn stock?
McNulty seems to be in quite a bit of legal jeopardy here. He’s claiming that everybody else didn’t tell him what was going on. Miers seems to have told him not to say anything at all. At this point, he really has to either go back to Congress and explain himself under oath, or he has to resign and take the fifth. I don’t see any other viable options for him, especially since Goodling seems to have dibs on an immunity deal.
He is a partner at Akin Gump and I don’t think partners at any law firm at that level bill cheap
Agreed. I assume that it’s easily accepted that a govt employee cannot afford those fees. Who could possibly be footing the bill (if there is one)? This is a disaster for the R’s – in no way in the interests of the ususal wingnut welfare suspects.
That’s why I floated the idea that Dowd is taking this one to re-establish name-recognition.
Jane Hamsher @
22
Exxxactly.
One should never, ever make the mistake of being “nice” to these clowns. They see civilized norms of behavior as weaknesses to exploit.
Alison @ 35
Not to misunderestimate the power of an informed citizenry, or Josh Marshall for that matter, but the primary reason this is all blowing up is the sheer arrogance of the perps.
Not only are we going to fire Republican prosecutors for bad reasons, we’re also going to malign their reputations. Because we can do anything and get away with it.
Hey egregious — got your email and I am just a million years behind at work. I will write soon.
xxox
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 55
Depends on how closely Delilah shaved his locks.
twolf1 @ 38
First of all, Gibson deosn’t know what he’s talking about, as the recent USA Today poll
( http://www.usatoday.com/news/p…..6-poll.htm ) shows.
Second, Roberts crap about the scandal being political is borne out by the poll, but the way I’m reading the poll is this. Yeah the majority of the country thinks the Dems are doing it for political advantage and you know what? THEY DON’T CARE!!!!! So long as the information comes out and the bad guys are caught, America doesn’t care what the motives are. Says to me that America is just sick and tired of the GOP bullshit that’s been going on for the past 6 years.
immanentize @ 51
I agree with the last part. No immunity deals this early in the game. There are still quite a few rocks to uncover.
jayt @ 63
Not really. All he has to do to get his name out as blast Pete Rose every now and then. Since Pete IS an idiot (though I loved him as a player…), it gives Dowd publicity every time, albeit in the sports pages rather than the front pages.
imm at 51 — I was having the same exact thoughts on the slow simmer this morning, myself. *g* And yes, you are absolutely correct that a true 5th Amendment claim is not only useful, but a necessity in our criminal system. Have had clients invoke it for any number of reasons when I was doing defense work — for legitimate purpose. But that’s the crux of the issue with Goodling in my mind — the letter from Dowd is far too slippery around the edges for me to get a good handle on whether there is a legitimate purpose in the background on this, or whether it’s posturing for public consumption.
Either way, though, it definitely reads to me like an opening negotiation gambit. (And good to see you, imm. I’m guessing you can finally see over the top of your huge project. Good on ya!)
Imm at 56 Just pretend I am LHP. :~)
You are so busted.
Hey congratulations and keep us posted! xoxoxo back atcha.
CocoaBeach @ 36
Now THAT is an EXCELLENT catch!! She’s signaled to the DOJ and White House that they are on the hook and that they’d better get her back or else!!
oooh. i’m so looking forward to hearing what sampson has to say to leahy on thursday.
and leahy is moving fast on other topics, as well. today (9:30 am on c-span3) leahy has mueller testifying on what the fbi has been up to (NSL abuse?).
i hope all this oversight will reign in the iran war-mongering… which does seem to be heating up.
Christy on fire.
Thank you so much.
FWIW, more on Dowd The Dowd Report on Pete Rose for MLB. I think it’s the same guy.
Christy, only if you have time or the interest, I am interested in what warranties Goodling implied by cashing her government paycheck every two weeks. If the GOP and Grover Norquist types were going after a Dem, I think that is the soundbyte you would hear from every GOP talking head and I think it’s a good one. You, Ms. Goodling, cashed your
goddamnedgovernment paycheck every two weeks. At what point, exactly, did you, as an officer of the Court, and a DOJ employeeat one of their highest paygradesthink that you had the right to cash a paycheck from the taxpayers, despite the fact that you knew about evidence of ongoing criminal activity at the WH? Per Jane above, I think it’s important for Dems to not only meet this abuse of the 5th Amendment, but actually gain advantage from it. I would have to think that as a condition of employment, all DoJ employees sign documents that commit them to a very high standard of ethics.joe sixpack can smell a rat when his neighbour’s kids are sent and resent to an endless war and there seems to be ’stuff’ all the time now about ’scandal’…..
“We have always been at war with Iraqonia”
Has anyone here seen this?
From today’s Chicago Tribune:
Rayne @ 58
Alison @ 35
…3000 pages are analyzed in a overnight shift.
Not by reporters paid to get a few column inches out the door about something that the WH send over the fax. But hundreds of American geeks in their jammies caring desperately about their country and serving in the best way they can.
—————
You know, it’s like they never heard of “open source” or “collaborative computing” before. These people are too inept and backwards to have been given the keys to our country; if they can’t keep up with average American citizens (a.k.a. “dirty f*cking hippies”), how are they going to outwit enemies of state with real whizbang know-how?
And 3000 pages combed overnight by tens of thousands of readers…I’ll bet they thought that only tens of thousands of folks were following the case, let alone tens of thousands actually “dumpster diving” through documents, hundreds of thousands reading and blogging the analysis the next morning, and MILLIONS reading those blogs before the end of the day’s news cycle.
Didn’t they learn anything from their own TANG document project?
———————–
Hell, no.
And for the reasons another reader has already mentioned:
That’s how Nixon’s people thought. That’s what got them caught. And remember, Cheney and Co. are Nixon holdovers.
jayt at 63 – Trust me when I say that Dowd does not have to do one thing to re-establish name recognition within the Beltway. He’s at the Wells/Bennett level of representation of political criminals — he just isn’t a camera hog, so folks outside the Beltway won’t know of him as much. I have it on good authority that his name is very recognizeable, however, for folks on and off the Hill around town.
Rayne
Didn’t they learn anything from their own TANG document project?
I’ve been riding this hobby horse for the last few days. The fact that they didn’t learn anything is compelling evidence to me that the whole affair was a Rovian Ratfuck. It cannot be a coincidence that this story came out just in time to spike a 60 Minutes story on yellow cake that Josh Marshall was working on.
Attaturk @ 1
That’s a great bit of poetry parody there (and I speak as a connoisseur of the genre, vide my (and Wolverine’s) http://tinyurl.com/yvu7pa — pls let it load, it’s way down the FDL page… tnx LOL) … that there “Charge of the Wank Brigade” comes highly recommended by me!
I just love what’s happening to W these days… I can just hear him saying “no-one could have anticipated the breach of my political levees…” Yep, no-one — except someone with a nice tract of land already waiting for him in Paraguay…
:)
dratty
First of all, Gibson deosn’t know what he’s talking about, as the recent USA Today poll
(http://www.usatoday.com/news/polls/tables/live/2007-03-26-poll.htm) shows.
What he’s saying may not reflect what the poll says. But you can be sure he knows what it says.
Think about that.
What name should we call his scandal ? Prosecutor-gate? Fredo-gate? But Keith Olbermann displayed a great name for this scandal. GONZO-GATE. Last night, Chief torturer Gonzales said the following during yesterday’s MSNBC interview:
“Also about public corruption. Our public corruption record has been tremendous. So we’ve done some great things. I believe that that can still continue.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17801927/page/3/
“Doing the people’s business” Our Benighted Emperor’s favorite obfuscation phrase, should be shortened to:
“Doing the People..” Who, according to the USA Today poll posted by Greenwald on Salon, give the Emperor about as much credibility on this as OJ Simpson in an anger management class:
This in the NYTimes Article caught my attention:
(emphasis mine)
Since when does one have to get advance approval to assert a consitutional right?
Phoenix Woman @ 46
GONZO JOURNALISM!!!
Terry Olson @ 45
My thought exactly. Who is paying for this (literally, not metaphorically).
Alison @ 35
Oh God I hope youre right.
A Serenade for Mr.Waxman:
there’s a hole in the bucket dear henry dear henry
a hole in the bucket dear henry a hole
Plug it with subpoenas dear henry dear henry
Plug it with subpoenas dear henry a hole
Frank33 @ 83
Gonzogate, I ‘ll take it. Put me down for the complete set — Gonzogate, Cheneygate and Dubyagate.
jayackroyd @ 80
You know what they don’t get? Nobody sent us.
They only grok push media, using talking points dispatched from Central Services to wake their clone army to battle.
We don’t need no stinkin’ talking points, though (with the exception of the eponymous website), to simply perform our function as self-informed citizens.
Alison @ 35
Terriffic post. Loved it. Couldn’t agree more. Yayyyy! Make sure ya read and heed, other pups — and NSA lurkers too. In its glorious and correct entirety.
Excelsior, USA!
My letter to Senator Leahy
Senator Leahy,
I want to thank you for the great job you are doing for us, the American People, in finding out what is really going on in the DOJ. For the first time in six years, I have faith that criminal behavior won’t be swept under the rug.
I trust you to do whatever is necessary to get the truth from Monica Goodling. I have no doubt that when she tells the truth, the Bush administration will effectively end her career. She will face consequences, even if given criminal immunity.
Having said that I trust you to get the truth, this email is slightly redundant. However, it is always appropriate to express gratitude to people who serve the American people rather than political interests.
Again, thank you.
Apologies, I screwed up my link to John Dowd and his
DOWD REPORT ON PETE ROSE BETTING ON BASEBALL above.
Per Christy’s comments above about what a very significant player John Dowd is in DC, Major League Baseball retained him to investigate Pete Rose.
The Freepers have gotten to the bottom of what is going on:
From Free Republic.
“We are getting dangerously near the point where the Democrats might attempt a military coup and take over the White House and Congress.
Mercenary troops from Pakistan or Norway or some other Blue-helmet soldiers would have to be imported, but it is a very real possibility.
I am perfectly serious.”
If you see a battalion of blonde haired, blue eyed soldiers wearing blue helmuts coming your way, batten down the hatches, the coup has begun.
-GSD
Frank33 @ 82
The “Republican DOJ scandal” as is “Destruction of Justice.”
I’m sick of “gates.” They have come to trivialize serious criminal conspiracies.
When “Christmas Card-gate” and the “Systemic destruction of the federal justice apparatus-gate” receive equal idiomatic billing, we have a real problem. I fear the “gates” have lost their punch and act as a media signal for too many people that all this is just a D.C. political fight rather than serious underlying criminal activity.
slainte,
cl
well, if Gonzo’s testimoy to Congress on 4-17 is anywhere near as ludicrous as what he bumbled out to NBC’s Pete Williams yesterday – I probably need to let ‘em know at work that I’m planning on ‘having a cold’ April 17.
Popcorn is good for colds, right?
jayt @ 97
Jesus, that was pathetic. If you are going to run a ruthless and corrupt government, you better get some more competent lackeys and toady’s.
Gonzo was pure amateur hour in that interview.
-GSD
Effwit @ 77
Kowabunga, peanuts. Schadenfreude oh schadenfreude.
[Mod Note; please remember to close blockquotes, thanks]
jayt—
My phrase is “I will have been not feeling well.”
Dang! The first thing that came to my mind when I heard about her “invoking the fifth” and hiring an attorney was, “Where’s the money coming from?”
It reminded me of the Watergate days, with its “follow the money” hint from Deep Throat.
Who, exactly, is footing the bill for her defense?
Speaking of talking points, check this wingnut’s spin (and no, I’m not linking this idiot):
This is exactly why Christy’s post is so important — it gets in their face on their deliberate misunderstanding and blatant misuse of the Fifth Amendment.
I so hope to hear Leahy say into a camera, “There is no Constitutional right to avoid testimony, only a right to self-incrimination.”
It also needs to be said the Goodling flouts the will of the American public by refusing to testify in front of Congress if she is wrongly taking the Fifth.
I don’t get it.
“It is disappointing that Ms. Goodling has decided to withhold her important testimony from the Committee…”
As others have said, the 5th isn’t a free pass. Leahy should subpoena her and start asking questions. If she refuses to answer, cite her for contempt and let the court sort it out. If Monica gets a pass with this, without any pain, others will do the same.
GSD @ 95
I, for one, welcome my studly Nordic overlords.
Puesto,
Those poll numbers hew awfully close to the wingnut base numbers that have been bandied about the blogosphere for a few years.
There is a rump of Americans who believe that the President is King and the people are serfs to be ruled.
-GSD
Smells like … freedom.
“And that seems to me to be the crux of the problem for Ms. Goodling: the cover story hasn’t been settled on this one, and in a fluid situation where telling the truth can get you in trouble with the vindictive pit of vipers that work in “Rove’s shop,” she’d rather not have to be honest, thank you very much.”
After watching clips from Gonzales’s exclusive NBC interview, I have to think that they will never get their story straight unless they write it on the back of Alberto’s hand before he testifies again. I can’t picture the guy who was stumbling through that interview as a state Supreme Court judge, even in Texas. And concocting something gets increasingly difficult as more emails and other crumbs of reality get out.
I hope Leahy inverts this bogus attempt to illegally hide behind the Fifth Amendment right back on Goodling and Dowd. How can Leahy make immunity decisions about her case until he knows how far back in her tenure she will claim her 5th Amendment priveledges. Since she and Dowd raised the 5th Amendment, it seems to me that Leahy has an obligation to know how far she and Dowd thing that it extends back in time.
dakine01 @ 42
and as a baseball fan, as far as i’m concerned that’s a get-out-of-jail free card for mr. dowd, even when he does the well-compensated work of the dark side.
GSD @ 95
I ‘understand’ the blonde Pakistani blue-helmeted troops are digging a tunnel under the Mexican border as we speak.
Anyone else think it’s funny that we have another MONICA at the center of a scandal??
That name is off the “favored” baby girl’s names list for years…
S.O.S. from MA @
92
Terriffic post. Loved it. Couldn’t agree more. Yayyyy! Make sure ya read and heed, other pups — and NSA lurkers too. In its glorious and correct entirety.
Excelsior, USA!
I beg to differ in this respect: I think some of them CAN imagine the power of an informed citizenry which is why they’ve done everything they could to keep us uninformed. That’s why they’ve done all they could to co-opt the corporate owned media and the punditocracy. They just do not yet understand the power of net roots. They’re still working from the paradigm that has reich wing talk radio driving everything rather than understanding that far more intelligent people than the ditto heads have been sitting all over the country waiting for a means to connect with likeminded citizens (THANK YOU FDL, TPM, Pandagon, C&L and all the other communities…)
Another stellar post Christy
Damn, just as it really starts to heat up…
Off to work
Jane Hamsher @
22
I’m with you, Jane. I think Monica has no interest in immunity. Particularly the mention of Libby–who after all was convicted of impeding an investigation, not just of lying–suggests they’re experimenting wiht a new strategy of firewall, the silence firewall.
I mean, what happens if she doesn’t testify. Perhaps McNulty can build a case against her, to save himself. Barring that–and assuming silence from everyone–then what are they going to do? Slap Monica in jail for contempt, a la Susan McDougal? Who??? Who is going to slap her in jail? Without DOJ, we can’t PUT people in jail.
drunkenhausfrau at 6:24 am
Nice catch. I missed that.
Rayne @ 104
mmmm… Me too. Blue helmets make me feel all fluttery.
Better them than what the Department of Homeland Facism has in store for us , after they get through with the immigrants.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 50
Nudge Away!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 15
I hope she sings like a canary! And my coffee is tasting muy delicioso this morning in the bright light of oversight…
Apparently the first target for the blue helmeted overlords is the baseball hall of fame…
and Pete Rose will conveniently ‘take the 5th’ as he ‘forgets’ gambling on when and where the Norwegian-U.N. ‘coup’ would begin….
CocoaBeach @
36
Ooh, nice catch. If Monica is referring to this as a firing, that has totally different legal implications.
emptywheel @ 114
Astounding to see actually how close they are to achieving their objectives. Is this panicky cynicism?
One hopes there are enough Fitzgeralds out there, or disgruntled types, to stall the plan -
i hope leahy and the committee push this around a bit — you can’t use the fifth amendment because you don’t like the questions or the people asking them.
that’s why the incessant meme by inside beltway media that this is just dems playing politics — to set the stage for shrugging off the entire USA affair.
What I think is one of the more interesting aspects to this whole matter is the Machiavellian angle.
Rove’s strategy seems to work in a come from behind situation and in a total domination situation.
It doesn’t seem to work so well at maintaining status quo or hanging on to power after having been knocked from the top of the heap.
-GSD
I thought we were dirty fucking hippies. Damn but I’m disappointed.
cbl @ 13
Not to nitpick, but just to keep people from making overbroad statements, there are 5th amendment protections for innocent as well as guilty behaviour.
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/colb/20010328.html
Apparently Ms. Goodling didn’t seek out a 33 yo graduate from a recently accredited law school to be her representative – perhaps showing more good sense than the man who appointed her to be his Sr. Counselor.
Still, the popcorn money almost has to be on Sampson. Even though Pryor is not my favorite, he and Lincoln ought to make a big effort to show up for that testimony and sit close by – since Sampson’s emails pretty much show an intent and plan to lie to them about how the Dept will handle the Griffin appotinment and string them along under the form, but not substance, of “good faith.”
dakine01 @ 111
I beg to differ in this respect: I think some of them CAN imagine the power of an informed citizenry which is why they’ve done everything they could to keep us uninformed. …
… Tnx for the reply dakine01. Imho we’re in agreement; despite their best efforts to “bread & circus” and “control the media” us to death, Left Blogistan is there to protect and fan the sacred flame of Liberty.
Christy,
Here is the Goodling press release and the letter sent to Sen. Leahy.
Goodling press release,Letter to Leahy
Christy – wonderful post, as always! One point, the links to Josh’s site, however, point to the wrong place.
If one actually looks at the letter that Dowd wrote, one thing that struck me was the case law that they were using.
Look at the parties involved who were using the Fifth Amendment: Savafian, Poindexter, North…… While the first might not ring any bells unless you are a Muckracker reader, you can connect the dots – they are all people who, in one fashion or the other, have admitted that they lied to Congress! (They’re also all Republicans of course)
IOIYOR!
DBaker, was Safavians conviction for lying to congress?
-GSD
[[[[[Mary4]]]]]
Thanks for the link.
Incredible times we are living in.
I am wondering what sort of enforcement capabilities–in terms of tracking down and uncovering WH emails sent and recieved from GOP/yahoo/gmail email addresses–the Congress has with an uncooperative DOJ?
And if DOJ employees continue to lie/refuse to testify, would that be grounds to instigate impeachment proceedings of Gonzalas?
The problem is, of course, protecting Rove–and hence Bush–at all costs? With this DOJ scandal brewing who will be watching the machine he is setting up to undermine the 2008 election, of which the new USAs are just a part of? Does Congress have what it takes to really launch a frontal assault on Rove in this regard?
I keep thinking of that scene in 2000, when Gore was certifying the election which had just been stolen from the American people, as Maxine Waters objected and objected and objected. She new what was about to be. And she was right.
GSD @ 129
No, he obstructed justice in the Abramoff matter and took a plea.
In a nice twist, Savafian was the guy who procured the office furniture from MZM. The same procurement which Waxman is now looking into.
[EPU’d from late night … ]
OT: I have minimal actual knowledge of the details of this case, but I’m going to vent anyway …
CNN is reporting that one Abdul Malik, accused of an Al Qaeda-claimed hotel bombing and attempt to down an airliner, has been transferred from US military custody to Guantanamo Bay.
Assuming that Malik is guilty of planning or participating in the bombing and attempted airplane downing, I have no doubt that he is a bad person. Assuming that Al Qaeda was actually behind the events it has claimed (and that Malik is associated with Al Qaeda), I have no doubt that he was seized because of his probable knowledge of Al Qaeda structure, personnel, plans, targets, etc., and that the US government was salivating during his capture and interrogation.
And — again, assuming that he *is* linked to the bombing and attempt on the airplane — I also have no dobut that the world is a safer place now that he is safely locked up in Guantanamo Bay.
Now, as far as I know (and as far as the American public has been told), everyone that is or has been incarcerated at Guantanamo has been accused of either taking or planning to take action against US citizens. The accusations take various forms and charges, differing locations and conditions and reasons, on or off the battlefield, etc, but they all come down to one of two things: the person is accused either of actually attempting to hurt a US citizen, or is accused of planning to hurt a US citizen.
But, here’s the thing: that hotel that Malik is accused of being involved in bombing? The hotel is in Kenya; it’s owned by Israelis; the bomb killed ten Kenyans and three Israelis. There’s no evidence that US personnel or assets were ever threatened, much less any action actually taken. And the airplane that he’s accused of being involved in the attempted downing of? It happened the same day as the hotel bombing; it also occured in Kenya; it was an Israeli plane. AFAIK, there was never any list of nationalities of the passengers or crew, but I think it’s safe to say that any Americans on the plane were not the primary targets.
Now, the Al Qaeda link may, in some warped Bushian fashion, have given sufficient cause to lead to his (presumed) kidnapping and (presumed) torture. However, that’s where it should end. As far as I can tell, Malik’s never been accused of targeting US personnel or assets. If he’s never targeted the US, then we have no right to indefinitely detain him, and he should be turned over to the authorities in either Kenya or Israel. Otherwise, Guantanamo becomes loses whatever microscopically small infintesimal shred of legitimacy it had and becomes simply a place that the US interrogates and warehouses anyone that the US government dislikes.
Thank you, SOS for making this critical point. This mantra, served to the corporatists over, and over and over, will pay off in the end.
Good on ya’
dakine01 @ 112
[Mod Note: please don’t re-quote more than twice, thanks, The Margin Faerie]
I am crossing my fingers for this… also for supoenas to be sent to Yahoo for the accts of these people. If the White House deletes emails, or “can’t find” them, my hunch is that Yahoo CAN.
P.s. Not to be persnickety… but isn’t it “antivenin?”
Nice:
Rayne @ 58
They haven’t. These are people who are “too important” to bother with those little details; CEO’s don’t have to know anything about anything except “managing” — all that tech and actual work stuff is for little people.
Reminds me of Iran-Contra, where they thought they were so clever, because they’d deleted all the emails. The FBI came in and pulled the automatic backups. North and his people literally had no idea such a thing existed.
Question for the lawyers — if all these creatures of Gonzo’s and Rover’s who are lawyers are actually found to have been lying and obstructing, are they stripped of the ability to practice law in the future?
Redshift @ 137
i remember when he said, “i thought when we hit delete, that that was it.”
Is there a chance, though, that this isn’t totally about self-preservation for this woman? Maybe I’m not understanding all the trains of thought, but is there a chance she not only thinks she’ll be incriminated for her part in something, but that whatever she knows will zap right up the chain to Bush/Cheney, Nixon tapes-style? Just send your responses to my tin foil hat.
senate judiciary committee hearing – “Oversight of the Federal Bureau of Investigation“, with direct mueller. (on c-span3 now)
leahy opening statement – improper and illegal use of national security letters.
go pat!!
Attaturk says:
Surely you recall Christy that the Fifth Amendment has been expanded to include protecting Republicans not only against self-incrimination, but also to avoid being bothered?
****
Must be one of those “signing statements” to the Constitution.
rayne at 102
“I so hope to hear Leahy say into a camera, “There is no Constitutional right to avoid testimony, only a right to self-incrimination.”
I think that Leahy would say that it would be a right against self-incrimination.
I smell Freud here :)
Not only the Gonzo cabal, but the MSM is having trouble getting their Republic talking points straight. Pete Williams is such a honey. And Gibson never seems to have a clue about what he’s regurgitating.
Nyet to immunity, Democrats. A conclusion of the Iran/Contra debacle is that no one should be/should have been granted immunity. No immunity, Democrats.
I’ve seen newsreels of mobsters taking the 5th against bobby kennedy.
did anybody take the 5th against joseph mccarthy?
AZ Matt @ 138
Short answer – if convicted, you betcha. See Watergate, disbarment etc.
CL @ 96 – I think “Destruction of Justice” about wraps it. Thank you.
Hi John! [waving]
Maybe someone who speaks more prettier can decipher this from Goodling’s lawyer:
The hostile and questionable environment in the present congressional proceedings is at best ambiguous …
I never thought of a hearing as a questionable environment, but I guess that would be one way to describe it.
dratty @ 143
Freud, fraud. Whatever.
This was an interesting tidbit:
Is this the McNulty-Goodling conflict?
McNulty did testify factually to a limited degree when he said the issue with the USA’s was performance; it was performance according to Bushie objectives, mind you, which they do not see as politics but as obedience to an ideology. This can be parsed a bunch to go either way.
Goodling tries to mask the reason for the USA’s separation with spin; did the spin come from her and not from anybody else? And do other as-yet unreleased documents confirm this, so that it can’t be parsed?
Christy
Thanks for this post. I had many of these questions, and wondered if the 5th could be used to refuse appearing before congress just because you didn’t feel like it.
Could invoking the fifth unneccesarily cause other legal jeopardy such as perjury (lieing that you may have committed a crime that you didn’t) or contempt of congress.
Does she have to appear anyway.
Redshift @ 137
I’m counting on the fact they don’t know how Blackberry devices work, either.
In a word: hubris.
Drunk with the stuff.
Rayne @ 149
Isn’t Nov 15 the first day of the e-mail gap?
i have assumed that the clause “shall not be req
This is going to be interesting to listen to the morons who asked “what do you have to hide?” regarding domestic spying. To them concealing your thoughts was equated to guilt. Let’s see how many of those same people end up on the other side of the argument this time.
The Rolling Stone has this article up this week on Democratic campaign consultants. A favorite topic here at the Lake.
RS article
Mary4 @ 147
the legitimacy of congressional oversight as ‘questionable.’
maybe john hagee hasn’t revealed Christ’s blessings on this matter yet.’
Snark aside it’s certainly all out in the open now isn’t it?
Rayne @ 91
Yes. That’s exactly my point.
When we did our FDL inspired senator visits last Easter, one of the most striking things about it was how difficult it was for the staffers we were talking to to wrap their heads around the idea that we weren’t representing anybody.
It apparently never occurred to Rove that this could spontaneously happen, which is why I am now morally certain that they set up the TNG thing, from forgeries to planted blog stories.
OT – MSNBC – growth in Tony Snow’s abdomen is cancerous
The HEAT is ON! This is very good news. It suggests that the Judiciary committee is not letting up or backing down. That is making Rove mutate under pressure. When that happens, the organism, er, presidential advisor is bound to start making mistakes. There are too many moving parts for him to keep track of. Without a time-out, one of these moving parts (in this case Goodling) is bound to jam the mechanisms. If Leahy and Schumer can resolve the 5th amendment issue with Goodling quickly, and I mean, make her testify toot sweet, the whole thing will start to spin out of control for Rove.
And to you trolls out there who think this is vengeance, give it up, guys. This has *nothing* to do with vengeance and everything to do with stopping a destructive element in the White House from doing anymore damage to the country. History will be kind to Leahy and Schumer when all the facts are known and it will villify this administration’s actors for centuries. They will become the example that everyone will refer to as what we must guard ourselves against.
I love the entire name–Monica Goodling. Maybe not so good after all.
testaroo @ 135
No, it isn’t antivenom *or* antivenin. It’s called a sony 1GB keychain thumb drive.
I think this White House can’t get enough spackle on the cracks in their ’stories’ and everytime they turn round, there is more light coming in from even more cracks.
The more ‘practical’ can see the long arm of the law getting closer and closer.
The more ‘delusional’ ones either, don’t seem to understand/believe that they are not really ‘royalty’ and are getting peeved at the peasants,
OR, are on some sort of time-line to get to their ‘god’ and ‘we’ are just getting in their way and might make them miss a deadline.
They are NERVOUS and will make more and more mistakes. They are being pushed from all sides. They are still dangerous, but no-longer unstoppable and they know it too..
Thanks to ALL who kept up the pressure for the truth, this Country would have been lost without you.
twolf1 at 158 — That’s such a shame. It is good that his docs were cautious and recommended the surgery as a “just in case” measure. How awful for him and his family.
twolf1 @ 157
more info – cancer has spread to his liver. He has vowed to fight it aggressively.
No, it isn’t antivenom *or* antivenin. It’s called a sony 1GB keychain thumb drive -
portia.vz
——-
Now watch this drive!
twolf1 @ 157
that’s very sad news– best to him and his family.
They are saying Tony Snow now has Liver cancer.
Best to Tony Snow and his family.
To all those who say that the DOJ won’t assist Leahy if he presses Goodling on the Fifth issue:
Fine. LET THEM REVEAL TO ONE AND ALL JUST WHAT WHORES FOR BUSH THEY ARE.
Think that they’re willing to risk that?
Also, bear in mind that there are still some good eggs at DOJ, as Schumer has pointed out. Otherwise, none of this would have been made public once the Democrats took over.
By the way: Atrios gave you props this morning, Christy!
Mabel’s Wig Shack @
19
It looks like one of those carefully crafted sentences that seems to impart one meaning, but actually says something else and so is deniable. (”I never said Saddam had anything to do with 9/11.”) These guys are expert at it…and it contributes to our impression that they are stupid or inarticulate because when you examine what they actually said it is, as you say, ludicrous. But I have never completely believed that they are as dumb as they seem, I think they do it all on purpose. Same deal on the incompetence…I think they are specifically interested in governing badly, sticking the siphon in our treasury, and absconding with our money and everything else. Like frat boys trashing the place.
That’s sad about Tony Snow. My prayers are with him and his family.
Rayne @
30
Maybe there was some money left over from Libby’s defense.
twolf1 @ 158
Shit. Hope they got it all out.
i have always assumed the phrase
“shall not be compelled … to testify against himself ..”
was a prohibition against good, old-fashioned english torture, i.e.,
you can’t put a person on the rack and then drag him into court and have him confess to something he did not do, like “date” the king’s mistress.
so the torture-loving bush gang are invoking the anti-torture section of the u.s. constitution.
ah, corruption breeds irony.
Noticed on TPM a picture of MS. Goodling….Regent University….you know, Pat Robertson’s school of bigotry and wingnuttery.
Sally: When I first read about Monica Goodling’s background, I had to chuckle at her name. If I were a bad novelist, looking to name an evangelical Christian character who would find herself in a pickle involving the White House, I might come up with something as obvious as Monica Goodling.
Franco @ 168
From me too. And a big sympathy card to Dana Perino. Girl, you just got thrown in the deep end for a long swim.
Interesting thread on this over at DailyKos, too:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/3/27/7153/12598
Frank Probst @ 173
God, I f*cking HATE cancer. That really sucks. Best wishes to him, hope his surgery went really well.
OT- Someone sent this vid to me yesterday. Phil Ochs was a friend of my older brother, an amazing composer who I remember as a kid having the voice of an angel. It’s good to see anti-war activists putting this heartbreaking ballad to new use:
One More Parade- Phil Ochs
Sad news about Tony Snow. Prayers and best wishes to him and his family.
OT, but important news — I’m glad Tillman’s family is not backing down. On with the subpeonas…
“Pat Tillman’s family firmly rejected the Defense Department’s findings…calling for congressional investigations into what they see as broad malfeasance and a coverup.
‘Perhaps subpoenas are necessary to elicit candor and accuracy from the military,’ his family said in a statement Monday night, after hearing the results of the latest probes.”
Link
350,000 dead Iraqui children under clinton/gore/albright sanctions (unesco estimates).
600,000 dead iraqui civilians under bush/cheney/rice/powell/rumsfield.
and the legal game in washington concerns keeping quiet about self-incrimination.
astounding.
EW–
On how close they are to achieving their objectives–
They seem to be banking on stacking the Supreme Court and confidence that nobody in the administration can be convicted following an impeachment.
It is getting kinda terrifying just how broadly they are attacking American institutions. The role of the legislature becomes advisory and promotional. The purpose of the justice system during elections is retention of the current party in power. The role of the Supreme Court is reinforcement of the executive will. The role of elections is to create the illusion of representative government.
And if the US Attorney’s office won’t prosecute a contempt citation by the Congress, what alternatives are there?
Celtic Music @ 181
Seconded.
A letter from Ira Levin
Required Reading for all Firepups.
twolf1 @ 158
My mom had colin cancer last year. I told her to read the list of tests Tony Snow had had and to get the same ones done.
His docs are using good sense and good resources.
Text of the Dowd letter is quite instructive.
A lot of political smokescreen and talking points for Fox, but boiled to its essence it looks like a trial run for a “We don’t have to testify before the Senate because they are politicians who made political comments” reading of the Fifth Amendment, which as the main post notes, is nonsense.
You could see this mis-reading of the Fifth being a new PR line of defense for the administration for a while, unless it gets knocked down promptly.
Just a note: I was on a plane last week with an Akin lawyer, and we chatted some about Scooter. He knew as much about the case as any FDL devotee, and he knew Fitzgerald ripped Hannah and cooked Scooter’s “too busy” defense. My impression was, very sharp guy, and he sure knew a heck of a lot.
dratty @
177
To Tony, and all his family, caring thoughts that you surround yourself with serenity and the best healers you can find.
Bad stress and cancer is not a good mix. Best wellness wishes.
jay at 184 — LHP was talking yesterday about the House Sergeant at Arms having delivered summons from the Congress to various WH folks during the Teapot Dome scandal when the DoJ refused to participate in the investigation. There is apparently quite a bit of precedent for end-running a politicized DoJ, if need be.
Ready; get set…
U.S. launches show of force in Persian Gulf
Aircraft carriers, warplanes feature in maneuvers off the coast of Iran
DUBAI, United Arab Emirates – The U.S. Navy on Tuesday began its largest demonstration of force in the Persian Gulf since the 2003 invasion of Iraq, led by a pair of aircraft carriers and backed by warplanes flying simulated attack maneuvers off the coast of Iran.
Found the Weissman person, as quoted in the Dowd letter:
“Weissman was Chief Financial Officer of Empire Blue Cross/Blue Shield (”Empire”). His convictions stemmed from an investigation by the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations (”PSI”) of the United States Senate Committee on Government Affairs. In 1993, the PSI was conducting an investigation of a number of Blue Cross/Blue Shield health care providers, one of which was Empire. Empire retained the law firm of Willkie Farr & Gallagher to represent it. Weissman was asked by attorneys from Willkie Farr and Alan C. Drewsen, Esq., Empire’s General Counsel, to assist them in presenting information to the PSI. Weissman apparently cooperated and met with the PSI staff through the Spring of 1993, although, as it later turned out, some of the information Weissman gave was false.”
So the case law consists all of people who have lied to Congress and in some cases have admitted to it (Savafian, in his plea agreement and, of course, Oliver North, who wears it on his sleeve as a badge of honor). [Poindexter was pardoned by Bush I - so he might have admitted to it as part of the pardon arrangement]
Dowd wants to use this case law as precedent to say that someone can plead the fifth because they might incriminate themselves, before that they testify …….
That’s quite a diplomatic effort, eh OK @ 191?
Nancy — where is your promised stand alone legislation wrt Iran???
More bullying and provocative behavior/words… that’s all this cabal knows.
JF @ 152
Why yes it is!
[2-1 page 15-18, Posted by: Donp Date: March 20, 2007 02:19 AM]
New thread by Christy.
But Will They Be Serving Toast?.
Hey Rayne!
And a toast to commenter “wondering,” who got us all to talk about toast to divert a tr*ll attack some time ago.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 191
The UK wants its soldiers back.
David Ehrenstein @
186
Thanks, David. I don’t normally read the NYT letters when reading it online, so a great heads up for me.
Really appreciated your op-ed piece on Obama candidacy & image in the LAT last week, BTW.
Does Bush even know that his father stopped an embarassing trial cold by using pardons? The current Administration appears to be collapsing before our eyes. Yet the Preznit is happy to just go on his regular bike rides. Is he even aware of what is happening? Republicans should flee. Bush is not sane.
What a beautiful place is Firedoglake. One day we’re calling Tony Snow a complete lapdog and a tool (when he more than deserves the verbal abuse), but when real life intrudes with devastating news we could not be more compassionate.
Strength and hope flowing to Mr. Snow and his family.
David at 186 — Fabulous letter — thank you so much for the heads up on it.
Rayne @
104
Okay, my tangent brain led me from that post to listening to Led Zepplin’s “Immigrant Song” Thanks y’all, perfect tune to get me fired up this morning!
“Immigrant Song”:
http://www.iit.edu/~marrjam/vi…..fault2.htm
OT…on Pat Tillman
“The Army continues to deny the family, and the public that pays for the Army with its taxes, access to the original investigation and the sworn statements from that investigation, conducted by Capt. Richard Scott, former commander of Headquarters and Headquarters Company, 2nd Ranger Battalion. His investigation contained the unaltered statements, taken when memories were still fresh, by witnesses to the events surrounding Pat’s death.
We know from subsequent sworn statements that more than one of the original statements was altered, after Captain Scott’s investigation “disappeared.”
This is not a misstep.
It is evidence-tampering.”
They are outraged, and I believe justifiably so. They think that Rummy is behind this. I would not be surprised.
A colleague of mine is helping his friend, whose company had a horrible truck accident not even close to being covered by $5 million in insurance. There are complex issues of bankruptcy and piercing (or not) of the corporate veil.
Anyway, my colleague helped his friend shop for sophisticated bankruptcy counsel. He interviewed a firm (Reed Smith) where the senior partner was at about the level of experience as Mr. Dowd. The hourly rate for this partner was $750 an hour. Even the senior associates are billing out at $300 – $400 an hour.
On the other hand, perhaps Ms. Goodling and Mr. Dowd were classmates at Regent U or the Pat Robertson College of Law or whatever.
But I doubt it. Dowd’s resume doesn’t make it look like he went to a matchbook law school. And he doesn’t seem to need the publicity of a high profile case enough to offer reduced rates.
Methinks Barbara Comstock will rear her, um, pretty head before long.
Oy. Best wishes and healing vibes to Tony Snow, and for his dear ones.
Can Ms. Goodling assert her 5th amendment right against self-incrimination and refuse to testify about her role, and the role of others at the White House and at the Department of Justice, regarding the US Attorney firings?
snip
Second, the right against self-incrimination doesn’t prevent you from testifying because you might perjure yourself. Unless there is some past act which could lead to an indictment, some underlying crime in other words, in which you could be incriminated as a result of what you might disclose on the witness stand, the mere fact that you might lie under oath while being questioned is not a sufficient reason to invoke the privilege. If that were so, everyone could lawfully refuse a subpoena on the grounds that they might conceivably lie on the witness stand.
Third, the privilege does not apply in situations in which the witness is given immunity from prosecution arising out of his or her testimony. At law, there are two types of immunity a tribunal (a court or a Congressional Committee) can give a witness.
continued
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/3/27/7153/12598
On C-Span 3, Feinstein just told Mueller that her office contacted the FBI director’s office in San Diego, who reportedly had said that Lam was essential for ongoing investigations, and that their office confirmed it and told her office that they had been told to say no more. A few minutes before she told him that, Mueller said his office had contacted that office and they had said the director had been misquoted. So, then she asks Mueller if he knew that they had been told not to talk about the matter, and he said yes he had decided that the FBI should not comment on personnel issues of the Justice Department. Damage control…
OT:
Just occurred to me that Bush will NOT veto the war money bill with strings that is going through Congress now.
He will use a signing statement to declare that he can ignore the parts that he claims Congress has no authority on (such as running a war).
He will take the money and ignore the constraints, because a veto would be failure to “support the troops”. And so we will stay fullly engaged in this mess until he is long gone.
For those saying “best to Tony Snow and his family”:
Look, the best thing to do here is for us to say absolutely nothing. For us to express sympathy means that we have to believe that the recipient will accept our sympathy and will be supported by it. This is not true here. Expression of sympathy to Bushies is interpreted by them as weakness on our part and as something to be used against us in return. They’re not going to feel better, they’re not going to thank us, and they’re not going to change their attitudes. I’m sorry to have to go against a basic and ordinarily commendable reaction of people here, but we have to realize, after years and years of this, the kind of people we are dealing with.
Bill @ 208
Exactly. Of course.
I think the attorney’s attorney is gonna need an attorney.
Hi Christy,
Great post. My first thought about Goodling’s legal bills was that she might have some assistance from a religious organization. Both of her alma maters, Messiah College and Regent University are Christian Evangelical institutions. Run Hutcheson reported on the above for McClatchy, today. John Dowd’s resume is impressive; he even represented John McCain, once. Could be some confluence of religious and political benefactors behind Goodling…who paid Fawn Hall’s bills? ; )
Cheers,
Adam
Cassius at 209 — I refuse to play by their screwed up world view. In my family, decency is still a virtue.
More obsturction of justice:
“Questions about political pressure in the Justice Department are spilling over into the New Hampshire phone-jamming case….
Democrats allege that Justice Department officials in Washington interfered in the case, and they want Congress to investigate.”
NPR
We don’t have enough hours in a day to document these crooks and lairs crimes…It’s 9:20 am here and I am exhausted with reading aobut all of their scandals, obstruction of justice and malfeasance…
Again, I think it’s a maneuver to buy some time for behind-the-scenes negotiations.
Yes, BUT. . .if you are Pat Leahy, before you give anybody any immunity, wouldn’t you have to weigh which is better realpolitiks–actually getting Moncia Goodling’s truthful testimony that, we assume, she was instructed by (1)Harriet Miers (?); (2) Abu Gonzo(?); (3) Karl Rove(?)to “misinform” Paul McNulty so as to cause him to purposefully mislead Congess and frustrate their oversight responsibilities, OR having Goodling and others at DOJ all claim their 5th privilege when subpoenaed to Congress to talk about the circumstances of the firings? Now you’ve got the world talking about how the highest levels of the Bush Adminsitration US DOJ-charged with the responsibilities of prosecuting and enforcing federal criminal laws– are all claiming they realistically believe themselves to be criminals!!! I think if I’m Pat Leahy I’m going to enjoy all those claims of 5th A privilege for awhile before anybody gets immunity.
Otis at 215 — Absolutely. *g* But then, sitting back and watching the Bush Administration folks turn on each other like rabid raccoons in a cage match ought to be a spectator sport.
The DOJ is now facing the same problem the Iraqi insurgents have to deal with every day. Who wwill be selected to strap on the belt? Goodling? Sampson? Gonzales?
Maybe they’ll draw straws.
“ignorance of the law is no excuse”
well, if Bush represents “The Law” does that also mean that “ignorance BY The Law is no excuse?”
And would that not make the contrivance of a situation where W can claim “plausible deniability” tantamount to conspiracy?
ps @ 211
legal catharsis!
Christy – Late to the game, but just wanted to thank you for this post. I saw Josh’s post last night and was hoping you would weigh in on this issue. The only question now is whether Leahy will pursue the testimony.
Cassius Chaerea @
209
Just because we may dislike the way Snow does his job for the Bushies, it does not follow that he would not accept or appreciate expressions of sympathy and encouragement.
Salon has a quote up by Tony on Elizabeth Edwards from last week.
nolo @
37
Could Leahy offer immunity about testimony on OTHER acts that Goodling may fear may be used against her by the White House?
It seems to me that quickly revising her testimony NOW would NOT result in PERJURY charges as the investigation is really in it’s very early stages. Unless the statements were made DELIBERATELY and in COLLUSION with OTHERS…but that is CONSPIRACY.
So Leahy could simply say that she will be given a chance to revise her testimony and any statements made EARLIER would not subject her to PERJURY charges. That should be the immunity deal she is offered. But any false statements made now or subsequently must be sworn and truthful.
But if she is involved in CONSPIRACY its a whole different issue…but I’d say that Leahy should also pony up THAT OFFER.
Imagine what that would signal to the DOJ and the White House if Leahy packaged these two offers TOGETHER! Heck, he could offer this and then have some of her testimony in CLOSED SESSION!
Panic in the West Wing!
Cassius Chaerea @ 208
Well, you do have a point. But it’s funny how when you have cancer, sometimes you find yourself changing your mind about what’s important in life.
meep! @
133
The Bush Administration has argued that “enemy combatants” also include those that attack or have made plans to attack not just US citizens, personnel and assets…but also those of its “allies” in the War On Terror.
So any STATE (ranging from Khazakhstan, the People’s Republic of China, Saudi Arabia, to Pakistan) that the Bush Administration DEEMS our ALLY is ONE. And any critic or opposition group (labor activists, legitimate revolutionary groups unaffiliated with al Qaida, human or womens rights proponents, etc.) can all be hauled off as “enemy combatants.
It makes me wonder why nations like Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe or Myanmar don’t simply pony up a handful of troops for the Iraq “Coalition of the Willing” and then hand over a list of their oppositionto be “handled” by the US.
@ 95:
“We are getting dangerously near the point where the Democrats might attempt a military coup and take over the White House and Congress…I am perfectly serious…If you see a battalion of blonde haired, blue eyed soldiers wearing blue helmuts coming your way, batten down the hatches, the coup has begun.”
Silly Freepers…the revolution will not be televised; the hippies will not be wearing bellbottoms.
DBaker @
192
I don’t recall that Ollie was ever convicted of Perjury based on his Congressional Testimony. In fact, the Special Prosecutor attempted to sheild his investigation from any taint of being INFORMED by Norths’ IMMUNIZED testimony. Unfortunately, the Appeals Court ruled that there was some testimony that may have been tainted and had to be thrown out…and so a retrial was ordered (either without that potentially tainted testimony…or with evidence demonstrating that the testimony was, in fact, untainted).
North, Poindexter, Weinberger and the others involved were all pardoned before the retrial occurred.
LS @
207
How would Mueller know that the FBI San Diego officer had been misquoted BEFORE Feinstein told Mueller what he said about LAM?
In fact, how would he know that the SD Officer had even spoken about this to Feinstein’s staff?
It seems clear that Mueller called with the order to “clam up” and the staff said “But we’ve already said to Senator Feinstein that Lam is an essential Attorney”…
…then Mueller said that he would take care of it and claim that they were misquoted. There is no way that they would have said that Lam was fired “for cause”…a lack of capability…and this would be misinterpreted. And there is no way that the Office in SD would have been told to “shut up” if they had, in fact, told Feinstein’s staff that Lam was fired for “cause”…which was precisely what the “official story” that was being formulated was supposed to be. The embargo only makes sense if the WH and DOJ realized that people weren’t on-board with that set of Talking Points.
So, why is it you suppose that in this toxic cesspool of amoral scum that Susan Ralston has skated scott free of any scrutiny? Speaking of females in this vat of corrupt white males!
This girl’s bio is a steamer. I’ll bet she knows a little bit about every crime that’s been committed and probably a good bit about Herr Rove’s planning for 08. You know this isn’t over. Before the polls closed last Nov., Karl was long terming for 08. Get this girl under oath and I’d bet the meltdown would come in a hurry. Just a thought. The Abramoff scolding over her slipping an email onto WH email system should be a four alarmer. Gov email, even in agencies not “mission critical”, is used with great caution even by mid level mgrs/bureaucrats with regards to any issue with even a hint of sensitivity(if they have any sense. mid level bureaucrats? 50-50). Get the outside domain emails!!!!
Karen M @ 220
I would like to express my sympathy to the Snow’s as well. I’d also suggest that given his difficult and stressful job of lying and obfuscating for Bush that he step down. I don’t think that he would think it reasonable that the Press not ask the hard questions necessary for the public to be informed about the Administration simply because they are sympathetic to his illness.
There is a very real difference between the situation of Elizabeth Edwards, who is NOT the one that needs to face the media daily and deal with critical policy questions regarding her husbands Presidential run, and Tony Snow. These stresses can’t be good for him, or his ability to deal with the course of treatment he will need to undertake.
This is just great writing, the equal of any political commentary being done in this country right now. What a funny, well crafted, on target piece. Damn to be able to write like that. . .
Christy Hardin Smith @ 190
yesssssssss.
I’m an attorney and I place myself in the camp of people who think the 5th can be invoked to avoid the threat of unfounded prosecution. Think, for example, of those who invoked the 5th during the McCarty hearings.
That said, however, the privilege has to be invoked in good faith. And it appears to me that this was not the case. I say this because the letter says, in essence, that the lawyers believe their client (Goodling) might be subject to unfounded prosecution like Scooter Libby.
The question of whether Scooter Libby was unfoundely prosecuted was put to rest when a jury of American citizens (NOT Democrats, NOT a partisan panel of elected representatives) found him guilty of perjury. Invoking the Libby conviction as a reason for Goodling to avoid testify is, in my view, a bad faith justification for the 5th.
EVERY witness, regardless of situation or court, faces a POTENTIAL for being brought up on perjury charges, and sometimes (like in the case of Libby) those charges stick. But that potentiality alone is NOT reason enough to invoke the 5th Amendment. Josh is right – if she’s worried about being prosecuted for perjury, the thing to do is — quite simply — tell the truth.
Standard conservative response #1; Nothing to see here, move along.
Standard conservative response #2: We didn’t do it.
Standard conservative response #3: Okay, we did it, but the people who ought to be fired for doing it didn’t know about it.
Standard conservative response #4: While, yes, it does now appear the people who ought to have been fired for doing did actually know about it, but there was nothing illegal about what they did.
Standard conservative response #5: Clinton did it, too.
Standard conservative response #6: Only if you’re interested in facts and what the “liberal media” has to say can you believe that Clinton didn’t do it, too, and isn’t at-fault now.
Standard conservative response #7: We’re in a war on terror, 9/11, Saddam Hussein was THE biggest threat the US faced, Iran …
Standard conservative response #8: It’s in the Bible, so, because the the Constitution is based on the Bible, you’re wrong and probably an atheist.
Standard conservative response #9: Questioning us is not only anti-Christian, it’s un-American, you godless commie DFH.
Standard conservative response #10:
We’ll fund a by partisan committee to review this.
Phoenix Woman @
52
‘Do you hear that Mr. Anderson? It’s the sound of your death. It’s the sound of … invevitability.’ — paraphrasing Agent Smith from The Matrix
The unaccountable urge of these people to continue to do outrageous things DOES make it inevitable they will have to be brought down. They leave the rest of us no choice. They’re taking what they want and they’re asking for trouble and they don’t have what it takes to take on the whole of America. They’re going down hard; as hard as a Texas ‘hard case’ can go down.
Rayne @
104
Somehow I can only imagine an army in rows and columns marching toward me like Barbie dolls, all wearing silk pajamas like Abba used to do, wearing blue UN-like helmets and just beautiful. Maybe they’d be a Stepford-Army and dangerous, but you’d be helpless to oppose them as your instinct wouldn’t be to hit them.
Hey, let’s get Valerie Plame on this. She’s beautiful and blonde and could psychologically oppose an army of cloned Barbie dolls! Heh.
Only in this surreal time would this idea ever enter the political discussion. It’s the bizzaro world of Georgie Boy.
dratty @
143
At least the 1st Amendment guarantees they retain the right to self-recrimination.
Cinnamon Ape @226:
I was just trying to point out that all 4 of the people cited are all, in some shape or another, admitted liars (I was picking up on my earlier post up thread) While Ollie indeed got away with what he did, it still does not mean that he didn’t do it. File it under the chapter of OJ, Karl Rove re: Plame, etc.
BTW Mr. Mod: the links to “Readers at TPM” and “Josh” in the post still point to the wrong place.
I believe that all government employees who invoke the 5th amendment for their conduct, within the boundaries of their position, should be forced to resign–and should no longer be able to hold a government position again.
Absolutely, KLM. There is no accountability if you won’t make account.
“Sen. Leahy, you see, also used to be a prosecutor back in the day.”
And he is having a hell of good time with this case.
You go, Pat!
Bill @
208
I assume this was tongue and cheek; a signing statement is not going to cut any ice in this case.
Bush can veto the bill that comes to his desk.
But what the hell does he do then? Go back to the House with a bill that is minus the withdrawal date and the pork? Pelosi will just say, “You can have the money, Mr. B., but only with the same conditions as before.”
And then what?
Remember this:
“Dowd says Rose should not be allowed back into baseball under any circumstances. “The issue is protecting the game, not protecting Mr. Rose and his reputation,” Dowd says. “That’s the judgment that’s been made on anyone who’s ever bet on the game and I think we ought to honor that.
“In my judgment, I don’t think there are any circumstances that justify his return to the game… If you let Rose back in, then the message to anyone who gambles and gambles on the game is that if you throw enough of a public relations tantrum and admit that you did it, then you ought to be back in the game.”
Dowd notes that no one who’s been declared permanently ineligible to participate in baseball has ever been readmitted. Commissioner Selig is “coming up against a great deal of powerful history on a rule that has been time and again demonstrated to prevent the corruption of the game.”
The force of the rule is “remarkable,” Dowd says. The best evidence of that is the day that then-Baseball Commissioner Bart Giamatti banned Rose, the commissioner “got calls from ballplayers all over the country” thanking him for “protecting the rule because they obey it. It’s posted right on the clubhouse door and they get reminded every spring what it is because experience has taught us that (gambling) really does undermine the game and it can’t be ignored.”
Mr. Dowd the issue is protecting the country and our system of justice, not protecting Ms. Goodling and her reputation
TheraP @ 12
Damn straight! And it steams and steams. And you aint seen nothin yet.
Any baseball fans out there remember John Dowd, Goodling’s attorney?
He wrote the famous Dowd Report in 1989, which laid out the case against Pete Rose for gambling on baseball.