Wow.

Oh PLEASE shut up, Harry.

Get out the veto pen!

Holy guacamole, did I get zed?

I’m surprised that the Senate managed to keep the timeline in the bill. I also am happy to read that Cheney was rushing over to cast a tie-breaking vote, but that there was no tie to break. Hehehehe!

By the way, how did Holy Joe vote?

Alright, let’s get this thing passed so we can send it off to President Temper Tantrum!

Wow. Agreed.

So, does Harry Reid think it is better for him to kiss the ass of Lieberman so Joe doesn’t completely defect from the Democrats? I just don’t understand why he keeps fawning over Lieberman.

how long until this gets vetoed?

also, TPM linked to CLTV video of Gonzales 3 question press conference this afternoon in suddenly chilly Chicago.

This is great news. The U.S. Congress has never stopped a war going full tilt before. Kudos, props, and a heartfelt thank you to the Democratic leadership in both houses, and to the liberals and progressives who pushed hard to make this a reality.

Quote of the Day:
Michael Ware telling Wolf on SitRoom “I don’t know what kind of Neverland Senator McCain is talking about….”

Re: Senator McCain’s earlier insistence to Wolfie that they could stroll together thru a Baghdad neighborhood….

Tom @
2

Oh PLEASE shut up, Harry.

How do we get rid of Harry?.

I weep. Is Peace at hand?

Well, I do dislike me some Gordon Smith, but must send him a little thank you note.

Hagel and Smith deserve some love for putting country ahead of party

Moving right along. . . .

LandOfTheFree @ 8

So, does Harry Reid think it is better for him to kiss the ass of Lieberman so Joe doesn’t completely defect from the Democrats? I just don’t understand why he keeps fawning over Lieberman.

Fat lot of good it did him to kiss his ass today, LIEberman still voted against the troops.

What was it they say about the definition of insanity?

When does Pryor face re-election? Can I smell a primary challenge in his future? I mean, even Ben Nelson voted with the Dems this time. Could that have anaything to do with the fact that Hagel is his Senior Senator?

11/7 changed everything

bdu @
6

Alright, let’s get this thing passed so we can send it off to President Temper Tantrum!

Don’t count on Smirk vetoing this. I bet he’ll use a signing statement on it. He’ll take too big of a PR hit if he vetoes this. And we know he loves his signing statements

“President Bush vetoed a bill that would have provided vital funding to our troops, citing a nonbinding measure within the supplemental that he disagreed with. Ususally he takes care of this sort of disagreement with a signing statement, but this time troops were involved, so he felt it was important to grandstand to their detriment.”

-the media in my head

So despite Harry giving Holy Joe a rim job, Joe voted with the GOP…again.

For the love of God, just cut his ass loose.

Morris Sheppard @ 18

When does Pryor face re-election? Can I smell a primary challenge in his future? I mean, even Ben Nelson voted with the Dems this time. Could that have anaything to do with the fact that Hagel is his Senior Senator?

Hell, both Ben and Bill voted with the Dems. Who woulda thunk it??

Jane – do I understand correctly that the Senate still has to vote on the actual Iraq funding & timeline bill? This was a vote to remove the timeline from that bill, but they still have to give an upperdownvote on the bill, right?

Or, did they already approve the Iraq Appropriations bill, and this vote was to change the bill that already passed?

If the appropriations & timeline bill has yet to be voted on, what is the likelihood that the Senate will pass it? When it passed in the House, I thought the chance it would pass in the Senate was rather slim. Are things turning in the right direction? Is the nightmare finally starting to end?

Oh, do I wanna see The Decider TM veto this bill. It will show to every American that the President wants to put the US in a state of perpetual war.

Harry Reid: “In this chamber is Joe Lieberman and there isn’t a senator I have more respect for than Joe Lieberman.”

And it seems that Reid includes himself in that statement. Do fuck off, Harry.

My contempt for Joe Lieberman is infinite and eternal.

However, Mark Pryor is giving him a run for the money.

Primordial Ooze @ 21

“President Bush vetoed a bill that would have provided vital funding to our troops, citing a nonbinding measure within the supplemental that he disagreed with. Ususally he takes care of this sort of disagreement with a signing statement, but this time troops were involved, so he felt it was important to grandstand to their detriment.”

-the media in my head

Delusions of granduer… the MSM whores are going to start screaming about how the dems just lost the war.

Morris Sheppard @ 18

When does Pryor face re-election? Can I smell a primary challenge in his future? I mean, even Ben Nelson voted with the Dems this time. Could that have anaything to do with the fact that Hagel is his Senior Senator?

Good point — Hagel gave Nelson some homestate cover. Pryor is up in 2008.

This is an amazing victory. I can’t wait to see Junja stamp his foot. This timetable is what 70% of Americans want. But I still want

TROOPS
HOME
NOW

So, I guess 48 senators hate the troops, huh?

Much as I hate to point it out, at the moment what we have is a vote 48-50, to defeat the Cochran Amendment. The funding bill itself, with timetables, etc., isn’t up for a vote yet. Reid says over a hundred amendments have been offered, which have to be sorted as relevant or not, and there’s a cloture vote scheduled for tomorrow morning. So we’re not quite there yet.

“So, does Harry Reid think it is better for him to kiss the ass of Lieberman so Joe doesn’t completely defect from the Democrats? I just don’t understand why he keeps fawning over Lieberman.”

Yes he does and so do I. Unfettered control of oversight is worth some words. And yes, before the flames – I know that the Dems keep control in case of a 50-50 split, except that Tim J. is still recuperating and shenanigans happen. So keep those Dem committee chairs, even if it means choking back one’s gorge for the next two years

I Love Jane Hamsher @ 20

Don’t count on Smirk vetoing this. I bet he’ll use a signing statement on it. He’ll take too big of a PR hit if he vetoes this. And we know he loves his signing statements

On the bright side, that could call some attention to Der Shrubbenfuhrer’s egregious abuse of signing statements…

TeddySanFran @
13

I weep. Is Peace at hand?

I’ll admit to more than a couple of tears myself.

I was not able to face passage of this Cochran abomination this evening.

Feels like the most important change (no more dying, killing and occupation) may be coming… finally, maybe, hopefully.

NY Spotlight @ 30

Much as I hate to point it out, at the moment what we have is a vote 48-50, to defeat the Cochran Amendment. The funding bill itself, with timetables, etc., isn’t up for a vote yet. Reid says over a hundred amendments have been offered, which have to be sorted as relevant or not, and there’s a cloture vote scheduled for tomorrow morning. So we’re not quite there yet.

Still, we are in a better place than I would have expected. This is progress in the right direction. I’m not saying it won’t get undone in a trice, but it is still symbolic.

We should start calling Reid “McFly”

I never thought, when I was a teenager, that a Senate vote on an ammendment for a military spending bill would make me bite my nails.

Oy.

Harry Reid: “In this chamber is Joe Lieberman and there isn’t a senator I have more respect for than Joe Lieberman.”

He must really loathe the other senators!

EvilDrPuma @ 32

I Love Jane Hamsher @ 20

Don’t count on Smirk vetoing this. I bet he’ll use a signing statement on it. He’ll take too big of a PR hit if he vetoes this. And we know he loves his signing statements

On the bright side, that could call some attention to Der Shrubbenfuhrer’s egregious abuse of signing statements…

That would be fun to litigate.

CONGRESS is “supposed” to work for THE PEOPLE – not – the party – or as things go with this corrupt cabal… LOYALTY TO BUSH over COUNTRY.

Get the $$$ out of our fundraising system so we can crawl back to being a TRUE DEMOCRACY –

not the “bought & sold” variety of “something” that we have today.

“America is a quarter of a billion people totally misinformed and disinformed by their government. This is tragic but our media is — I wouldn’t even say corrupt — it’s just beyond telling us anything that the government doesn’t want us to know.” Gore Vidal

NY Spotlight @ 30

Much as I hate to point it out, at the moment what we have is a vote 48-50, to defeat the Cochran Amendment. The funding bill itself, with timetables, etc., isn’t up for a vote yet. Reid says over a hundred amendments have been offered, which have to be sorted as relevant or not, and there’s a cloture vote scheduled for tomorrow morning. So we’re not quite there yet.

I assume Tim Johnson didn’t vote, and if he had it would have been 51-48. Who else didn’t vote?

Bostontom @ 31

“So, does Harry Reid think it is better for him to kiss the ass of Lieberman so Joe doesn’t completely defect from the Democrats? I just don’t understand why he keeps fawning over Lieberman.”

Yes he does and so do I. Unfettered control of oversight is worth some words. And yes, before the flames – I know that the Dems keep control in case of a 50-50 split, except that Tim J. is still recuperating and shenanigans happen. So keep those Dem committee chairs, even if it means choking back one’s gorge for the next two years

Get well soon, Senator Johnson.

Every one of these victories moves public (and pundit) opinion in the right direction. Think of them as baby steps to stopping Commander Cuckoo Bananas’ war. It’s not the most desirable way, but it may be the most politically possible way.

Regardless of the language of the bill, the headlines will simplify it to the Democrats are stopping Bush’s war. And soon Bush will have to choose whether or not to veto funding or eat it, which will generate even more choice headlines.

OT via Raw Story:
WASHINGTON – Former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld cannot be tried on allegations of torture in overseas military prisons, a federal judge said Tuesday in a case he described as “lamentable.”
US District Judge Thomas F. Hogan threw out a lawsuit brought on behalf of nine former prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan. He said Rumsfeld cannot be held personally responsible for actions taken in connection with his government job.

I like this divided government stuff! Sure beats that stretch of Republican monopoly power!

Yay! Happy day for all sane Americans.

My inclination at this point is to change “Give ‘em hell, Harry” to “Go to hell Harry.”

Morris Sheppard @
26

My contempt for Joe Lieberman is infinite and eternal.

However, Mark Pryor is giving him a run for the money.

But … Pryor is for a timeline!

As long as it’s secret!

As I posted in the last thread, Mark Pryor is bad news. His vote for Alito and now this. I was hoping Gen. Clark would run against him but Clark endorsed his re-election. Gag-me!!

Priceless quote from Holy Joe:

The effect of the timeline would be to “snatch defeat from the jaws of progress in Iraq,” agreed Lieberman,

The jaws of progress… sounds kinda painful.

Bostontom @ 31

Yes he does and so do I. Unfettered control of oversight is worth some words. And yes, before the flames – I know that the Dems keep control in case of a 50-50 split, except that Tim J. is still recuperating and shenanigans happen. So keep those Dem committee chairs, even if it means choking back one’s gorge for the next two years

Of course, the only reason Lieberman is a committee chair at all is that Reid refused to punish him for telling Connecticut’s Democratic primary voters to fuck off back in August. The gorge-choking could be a lot less if Old Harry Balls had shown some back when it might have made a difference to the balance of power in the Senate.

pinson @ 49

Priceless quote from Holy Joe:

The effect of the timeline would be to “snatch defeat from the jaws of progress in Iraq,” agreed Lieberman,

The jaws of progress… sounds kinda painful.

“The jaws of progress”

You mean the ones that keep sending our troops home missing limbs? I’ll gladly snatch defeat from THOSE jaws, thanks Joe.

Swopa — Pryor quote from your blog:

“I’ve had a number of [Democrats] ask me why . . . but after I explain it they do understand where I’m coming from,” Pryor said.

They’re thinking, another planet.

Thanks Sens Hagel and Smith and supporting Dems!

(eleven years of Oregon timber wars – still not over – never thought I’d thanks Gordon Smith for anything.)

Woo hoo!

I would like to know what Liberman’s – or Bush or Cheney or any neocon’s- definition of Victory or even “Progress” IS?

pinson @ 49

Priceless quote from Holy Joe:

The effect of the timeline would be to “snatch defeat from the jaws of progress in Iraq,” agreed Lieberman,

The jaws of progress… sounds kinda painful.

Is that the jaws or the jowls?

Bostontom @
31

“So, does Harry Reid think it is better for him to kiss the ass of Lieberman so Joe doesn’t completely defect from the Democrats? I just don’t understand why he keeps fawning over Lieberman.”

Yes he does and so do I. Unfettered control of oversight is worth some words. And yes, before the flames – I know that the Dems keep control in case of a 50-50 split, except that Tim J. is still recuperating and shenanigans happen. So keep those Dem committee chairs, even if it means choking back one’s gorge for the next two years

I don’t mind the choking , so much as I do the swallowing…

So, if Enzi comes back from his sick leave (or whatever) for the vote on the bill, we have a tie for Darth to break? Unless we can beat some sense into Pryor, I guess…

Pryor is my senator. I called this morning and he is for a SECRET timeline to protect the military. The aide could not explain it in a way that made logic to me.

Scarecrow @ 52

Swopa — Pryor quote from your blog:

“I’ve had a number of [Democrats] ask me why . . . but after I explain it they do understand where I’m coming from,” Pryor said.

They’re thinking, another planet.

GoodMrsPuma tabled a proposal today that the middle finger should be the new peace sign. (I pointed out that this could mean traffic chaos in New York, but I like the idea anyway.) So let’s all wish Pryor and Holy Joe peace.

Here is Pryors reasoning in the WAPO today

Democrat Proposes Making Withdrawal Date Secret
Only Congress, White House and Iraqi Government Would Know Plan.

Jane Hamsher @
7

Wow. Agreed.

maybe i’m gonna get to tell eli that he was right and i was wrong… here’s hoping!

everhopeful @ 57

So, if Enzi comes back from his sick leave (or whatever) for the vote on the bill, we have a tie for Darth to break? Unless we can beat some sense into Pryor, I guess…

Never mind – it would be 50-49 – d’oh!

Jane Hamsher @ 7

Wow. Agreed.

I’m shocked that Hagel actually flouted Bush when it counted. Good for you, Chuck! I honestly didn’t think you’d do it.

This was especially important with Tim Johnson still out and recuperating.

I hope Deadeye had a nice drive.
F*cker.

yaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh……………..

nay! nay! nay!

for a minute there i was worried

we are in nail-biting times, hold ‘er steady……….next????????????

don’t forget to thank those senators who slammed down the ‘posers’………

thanks to those who live blogged, some of us don’t have cable or broadband, thank you thank you thank you.

Harry Reid: “In this chamber is Joe Lieberman and there isn’t a senator I have more respect for than Joe Lieberman.”

Harry Reid can read polling numbers the same as anyone. This doesn’t make any sense which leads me to conclude that there is something we’re missing.

Is this a mysterious way of calling him out somehow, or is BostonTom at 31 right?

What are we missing?

NY Spotlight @ 30

Much as I hate to point it out, at the moment what we have is a vote 48-50, to defeat the Cochran Amendment. The funding bill itself, with timetables, etc., isn’t up for a vote yet. Reid says over a hundred amendments have been offered, which have to be sorted as relevant or not, and there’s a cloture vote scheduled for tomorrow morning. So we’re not quite there yet.

You are correct. But the optics on this are huge.

I’m digging Hagel’s lip gloss.

kirk murphy @ 53

Thanks Sens Hagel and Smith and supporting Dems!

(eleven years of Oregon timber wars – still not over – never thought I’d thanks Gordon Smith for anything.)

Woo hoo!

Gordon Smith joined us, too?

Now I’m REALLY surprised.

when is the Webb amendment being voted — to put back in the Prohibition of attacking Iran.

If Bush does bomb Iran, once Iran has taken out the oil installations on the west side of the Gulf, the Gulf will become “somewhat impassable”.

At the same time the extensive border Iran/Iraq will probably be ‘visited’ by Iranian soldiers, a million or so, a lot more prepared to fight than the Iraqis. We might well find that we run out of munitions to throw at them and they will be too close to our boys to nuclear. Remember, we ran out of bombs just in bombing Kosovo!

The only way out for our lads will be overland to Jordan and to Aqaba —– think of the diplomatic ‘difficulty’ if we wanted to pass through Palestine into Israel— or across Syria, Ha! Ha! into Lebanon, or like the evil march from Kut in ?1916, all the way up Iraq and across Turkey.

No wonder the Pentagon is not keen on our attacking Iran…… just watch the death rate of US soldiers if Bush bombs Iran…..

Write to the Republican Congress dummies about that one!

I think Holy Joey, is like, needs to feel the love and Harry at this point knows it and willing to do almost ANYTHING for him,IMO. So, some people need it. These lifers in the Senate have forgotten what its like to be reg. folk. Its supposed to be a clicky place.

Alberto turns a promised 15 min. presser into the big skedaddle-

From the Chicago Sun-Times:
Gonzales Visits Chicago

Bostontom @ 31

“So, does Harry Reid think it is better for him to kiss the ass of Lieberman so Joe doesn’t completely defect from the Democrats? I just don’t understand why he keeps fawning over Lieberman.”

Yes he does and so do I. Unfettered control of oversight is worth some words. And yes, before the flames – I know that the Dems keep control in case of a 50-50 split, except that Tim J. is still recuperating and shenanigans happen. So keep those Dem committee chairs, even if it means choking back one’s gorge for the next two years

Even if Joe switches parties the committee chairs don’t change.

TeddySanFran @ 13

I weep. Is Peace at hand?

For the U.S., possibly. For Iraq, no.

You are correct. But the optics on this are huge.

Exactly. If we didn’t make this, nothing else would have mattered.

Now that we have made it, everything else is doable. Won’t be necessarily easier, but definitely doable.

I probably don’t agree with many of Hagel’s political positions. Nevertheless, his comments when he decided to delay a decision on running for President suggest that he has a much better sense than most about the deep social and political shifts that are occurring.

I don’t know whether any other commenters are familiar with the term ‘mind like water’; it comes from karate, and signifies a position of readiness. As I listened to Hagel delay his decision about whether to run, I wondered whether Hagel has ever taken karate. Hagel’s behavior was was like watching a martial artist; feint, avoid, wait for the right moment.

I don’t have to agree with a person to tip my hat when they do the right thing; good for Hagel and Smith. And good for the Dems.

maunga – while checking something on Iran mentioned last thread, noticed several stories like the following from Reuters:

Reuters – Syria

seems we’re rattling swords in both directions

Harry Reid: “In this chamber is Joe Lieberman and there isn’t a senator I have more respect for than Joe Lieberman”

Channeling Shakespeare here:
“For Lieberman is an HONEST man…”

So, how did George Allen vote?

Oh wait, he didn’t, because, with our help, Allen went down in flames in November.

Remember folks, we played a role in what happened today.

Take a moment, savor the progress we have begun, pat yourself on the back, and then keep working toward 2008!

Bustednuckles @ 64

I hope Deadeye had a nice drive.
F*cker.

I thought shooter had a cushy office in the capital building. Oh, yeah I forgot. Rangel kicked him out of it!

How can we make the whole country
repeat the mantra:
“Republicans voted against our troops”
?

Scarecrow @ 52

Swopa — Pryor quote from your blog:

“I’ve had a number of [Democrats] ask me why . . . but after I explain it they do understand where I’m coming from,” Pryor said.

They’re thinking, another planet.

Sorry it was such a long post you couldn’t read to the end. ;)

The vote is good … but we cannot let down our guard – what provisions are involved, how many troops left behind like in House bill (undisclosed in House bill), etc …

It is essential we stay on top of the next amendments and keep our eyes on them

If Peter DeFazio runs against Gordon Smith in ‘08 I will consider it a chance to vote against Lieberman

This must mean that Hagel a) wants to run for President and b) wants to stake out a position, early on, to show that he opposed enabling Bush any further than he had to.

Of course, Hagel still won’t get past the first primary (he won’t even come close to winning the money primary, not unless he gets serious about creating a GOP version of the netroots), because the GOP primary voters don’t like him precisely because of his occasional explosions of sanity — I’ve talked to a few, and they’re all behind Rudy; they openly hate McCain and think that Hagel’s little better than McCain.

everhopeful @
57

So, if Enzi comes back from his sick leave (or whatever) for the vote on the bill, we have a tie for Darth to break? Unless we can beat some sense into Pryor, I guess…

nope. the vote was 50 to 48.

enzi would (presumably) make it 50 to 49.

we’ve got to hold on to everyone of those 50 votes. i say, call ‘em all and say thank you.

Jane Hamsher @ 73

Even if Joe switches parties the committee chairs don’t change.

Yup. And in no small part, we have Harry Reid to thank for that. Because he respects Lieberman so damned much, you know.

I’m watching Tucker live right now. All of the reporters and analysts they’re talking with are talking about “when this bill is passed”, not “if this bill is passed”. They are also saying, “it will be vetoed”.

I read elsewhere that the Republicans have said they’re not going to vote for cloture, so a vote on this bill will likely come up in a few days.

Oh, I love this “breaking news” label on Tucker’s screen: “House and Senate Defy President, Vote in Favor of Troop Withdrawl”.

Hehehe! I expect a snorting, spitting, super-pissy press conference from The Decider TM tomorrow. Oh, he’s gonna be really, really, really pissed. Moreso than we’ve seen him yet.

Siun @ 83

The vote is good … but we cannot let down our guard – what provisions are involved, how many troops left behind like in House bill (undisclosed in House bill), etc …

It is essential we stay on top of the next amendments and keep our eyes on them

an NO to the permanent bases!

Marie Roget @ 72

Alberto turns a promised 15 min. presser into the big skedaddle-

From the Chicago Sun-Times:
Gonzales Visits Chicago

There’s a photo on HuffPo of Gonzo running off. It sure looks like he’s giving the press the finger. It’s believeable because it’s a stunt Bush loves to pull. Nice having dingnified frat boys running things. Republicans must be so proud.

EvilDrPuma @
32

I Love Jane Hamsher @ 20

Don’t count on Smirk vetoing this. I bet he’ll use a signing statement on it. He’ll take too big of a PR hit if he vetoes this. And we know he loves his signing statements

On the bright side, that could call some attention to Der Shrubbenfuhrer’s egregious abuse of signing statements…

Recall that unlike officials in the DOJ, NSA, CIA, Pentagon, EPA . . . money $$ cannot read “signing statements.” Money can only follow the instructions in the text of an appropriations bill.

This bill is not giving/limiting the authority of the executive by telling the administration how to run FISA, for instance. Rather, this is an appropriations bill controlling the use of funds. Signing statements are not worth the paper on which they are written. From the perspective of the greenbacks, they are even less significant.

slainte,
cl

Pryor: Democrat Proposes Making Withdrawal Date Secret; Only Congress, White House and Iraqi Government Would Know Plan.

Sane people: If the Iraqi government knows the plan, so does at least one group of insurgents. Make it public, so everyone knows.

I’ve stopped worrying about what Harry says about Joe. Joe is making himself irrelevant. It’s automatic now. I put it in the same category as . . .

“Raymond Shaw is the kindest, warmest and most loving human being I’ve ever known.”

“The jaws of progress.” That should be etched on his fucking gravestone. (When he dies of natural causes after a long and healthy life!)

Are we to have confidence, then, that President Little Boy Blew’s veto can be overridden?

wow.

i think the damn might be cracking.

if that happens, i would not want to be a bush loyalist in any high-level govt position in washington.

if the cracking grows, we may shortly have an answer to a central politico-biological question:

when the unitary executive turns tail and runs, does it run with one collective tail or with many?

does in run in one direction or many?

does it run solely to texas for cover? or take refuge also in mississippi, oklahoma, south carolina, kansas, idaho?

We can NEVER EVER let down our guard, that’s how we got into the mess we’re in now.

doG how I wish Lincoln had let the South secede.

I hope Bush pops a gasket on the Tee Vee, it would be so nice to see a public meltdown, maybe give the ‘Merkin public a version only his staff gets to see.

Maybe George will sign the bill, but put the famous signing statement saying he won’t adhere to the timeline BS or anything else he doesn’t like in the bill. You know how he is — the rules don’t apply to him.

YAAAAAHOOOO!

Bostontom @ 31

“So, does Harry Reid think it is better for him to kiss the ass of Lieberman so Joe doesn’t completely defect from the Democrats? I just don’t understand why he keeps fawning over Lieberman.”

Yes he does and so do I. Unfettered control of oversight is worth some words. And yes, before the flames – I know that the Dems keep control in case of a 50-50 split, except that Tim J. is still recuperating and shenanigans happen. So keep those Dem committee chairs, even if it means choking back one’s gorge for the next two years

Good advice.

South Orange County Democrat @ 78

Harry Reid: “In this chamber is Joe Lieberman and there isn’t a senator I have more respect for than Joe Lieberman”

Channeling Shakespeare here:
“For Lieberman is an HONEST man…”

To paraphrase Bubba “It depends on what the meaning of ‘respect’ is.”

Caoimhin Laochdha @ 91

EvilDrPuma @
32

I Love Jane Hamsher @ 20

Don’t count on Smirk vetoing this. I bet he’ll use a signing statement on it. He’ll take too big of a PR hit if he vetoes this. And we know he loves his signing statements

On the bright side, that could call some attention to Der Shrubbenfuhrer’s egregious abuse of signing statements…

Recall that unlike officials in the DOJ, NSA, CIA, Pentagon, EPA . . . money $$ cannot read “signing statements.” Money can only follow the instructions in the text of an appropriations bill.

This bill is not giving/limiting the authority of the executive by telling the administration how to run FISA, for instance. Rather, this is an appropriations bill controlling the use of funds. Signing statements are not worth the paper on which they are written. From the perspective of the greenbacks, they are even less significant.

slainte,
cl

the treasury?

Baghdad is lovely this time of year.

-John McCain(R)-Neverland

orionATL @ 95

wow.

i think the damn might be cracking.

if that happens, i would not want to be a bush loyalist in any high-level govt position in washington.

Of course you wouldn’t want to be. After all, that would mean you would likely be under investigation for possible criminal wrongdoing.

Badwater @ 90

Marie Roget @ 72

Alberto turns a promised 15 min. presser into the big skedaddle-

From the Chicago Sun-Times:
Gonzales Visits Chicago

There’s a photo on HuffPo of Gonzo running off. It sure looks like he’s giving the press the finger. It’s believeable because it’s a stunt Bush loves to pull. Nice having dingnified frat boys running things. Republicans must be so proud.

Tom Toles had a great cartoon about Gonzo today.

Are the voters in CT happy with Lieberman? I can’t believe that he’s become the kind of Senator they wanted.

Siun @ 77

maunga – while checking something on Iran mentioned last thread, noticed several stories like the following from Reuters:

Reuters – Syria

seems we’re rattling swords in both directions

I listened to the Syrian ambassador to the UK in a BBC forum from March 20th (?) saying that the Syrians had 9000 troops and many, many police stations on the border and that there was virtually no American presence protecting that border.

Makes one think…

Since the notion that Iran is supplying Iraqis has been tamped down lately among those who know vs those that spew like Lieberman and the admin and the neocons and others…

Bushco et al does know how to fan the flames with the MEK, PKK, and endless propaganda.

argh.

Scarecrow @ 93

I’ve stopped worrying about what Harry says about Joe. Joe is making himself irrelevant. It’s automatic now. I put it in the same category as . . .

“Raymond Shaw is the kindest, warmest and most loving human being I’ve ever known.”

Right, this is what I was trying to get at. A backhanded compliment?

readerOfTeaLeaves @ 76

I probably don’t agree with many of Hagel’s political positions. Nevertheless, his comments when he decided to delay a decision on running for President suggest that he has a much better sense than most about the deep social and political shifts that are occurring.

I don’t know whether any other commenters are familiar with the term ‘mind like water’; it comes from karate, and signifies a position of readiness. As I listened to Hagel delay his decision about whether to run, I wondered whether Hagel has ever taken karate. Hagel’s behavior was was like watching a martial artist; feint, avoid, wait for the right moment.

I don’t have to agree with a person to tip my hat when they do the right thing; good for Hagel and Smith. And good for the Dems.

Well if it weren’t for Hagel and Smith this would not have passed. Votes are displayed here : http://www.senate.gov/legislat…..00116#name

As long as the Bush ship is sinking it should be possible to peel off a vote or two from the Rethug caucus, and overcome the Johnson D-SD(not voting) and Lieberman I-CT (not anything)at least where there is an opportunity to stand for something. Hagel and Johnson better get someone to start their cars for them. The Boy King does not suffer humiliation kindly.

Morris Sheppard @
40

NY Spotlight @ 30

Much as I hate to point it out, at the moment what we have is a vote 48-50, to defeat the Cochran Amendment. The funding bill itself, with timetables, etc., isn’t up for a vote yet. Reid says over a hundred amendments have been offered, which have to be sorted as relevant or not, and there’s a cloture vote scheduled for tomorrow morning. So we’re not quite there yet.

I assume Tim Johnson didn’t vote, and if he had it would have been 51-48. Who else didn’t vote?

Enzi, and I presume it was a courtesy non-vote.

orionATL @ 95

wow.

i think the damn might be cracking.

if that happens, i would not want to be a bush loyalist in any high-level govt position in washington.

if the cracking grows, we may shortly have an answer to a central politico-biological question:

when the unitary executive turns tail and runs, does it run with one collective tail or with many?

does in run in one direction or many?

does it run solely to texas for cover? or take refuge also in mississippi, oklahoma, south carolina, kansas, idaho?

At his secret ranch in either Paraguay or Uruguay)

The amendment in the Senate was S.Amdt 643 to HR 1591 (the House bill).

To strike language that would tie the hands of the Commander-in-Chief by imposing an arbitrary timetable for the withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq, thereby undermining the position of American Armed Forces and jeopardizing the successful conclusion of Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Lieberman (I-CT) and Pryor (D-AR) voted for.
Hagel (R-NE) and Smith (R-OR) voted against.

Enzi(R-WY) and Johnson (D-SD) did not vote.

Pryor on NPR saying that he is for a timetable but wants it to be classified. I expect he hopes that the Iraqis won’t notice when we start to leave. Idiot.

Caoimhin Laochdha @ 91

Recall that unlike officials in the DOJ, NSA, CIA, Pentagon, EPA . . . money $$ cannot read “signing statements.” Money can only follow the instructions in the text of an appropriations bill.

This bill is not giving/limiting the authority of the executive by telling the administration how to run FISA, for instance. Rather, this is an appropriations bill controlling the use of funds. Signing statements are not worth the paper on which they are written. From the perspective of the greenbacks, they are even less significant.

I couldn’t disagree more. Money has no perspective and does nothing; people use money to do things according to their perspectives. And that’s why signing statements have been worth a great deal to this administration: it allows them to ignore any law they choose or to twist laws to mean things Congress never intended to mean. Until Congress fights back on that…HARD!…we have no assurance that any money will be spent as we would like it, nor that any other action by this administration will be in accordance with the law, no matter what the bill says when Bush signs it.

roll call vote here.

tbsa @
43

OT via Raw Story:
WASHINGTON – Former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld cannot be tried on allegations of torture in overseas military prisons, a federal judge said Tuesday in a case he described as “lamentable.”
US District Judge Thomas F. Hogan threw out a lawsuit brought on behalf of nine former prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan. He said Rumsfeld cannot be held personally responsible for actions taken in connection with his government job.

This is the same standard that is likely to get the Wilsons’ lawsuit thrown out, btw. Apparently, if you do it on government time, it’s okay…

Now about that trip to Belgium Rummy was thinkign about…

Angie – yep, the Syrians are watching their border but that’s too fact based for our team.

btw, have you seen the documentary on pbs about Iranian pilgrims to Karbala … really stunning

Fineline @ 109

The Boy King does not suffer humiliation kindly.

maybe he just need some more practice? *g*

Phoenix Woman @ 85

This must mean that Hagel a) wants to run for President and b) wants to stake out a position, early on, to show that he opposed enabling Bush any further than he had to.

Of course, Hagel still won’t get past the first primary (he won’t even come close to winning the money primary, not unless he gets serious about creating a GOP version of the netroots), because the GOP primary voters don’t like him precisely because of his occasional explosions of sanity — I’ve talked to a few, and they’re all behind Rudy; they openly hate McCain and think that Hagel’s little better than McCain.

We’ll see. It looks like he’s staking out the so far unoccupied territory of “Republicans distancing themselves from Bush,” anticipating Bush becoming steadily more unpopular. Right now, they’re all caught between the need to stay in good with the Bush-worshippers, and the fact that Bush is incredibly unpopular with everyone else in the country. At some point in the next year, enough of the Bush-worshippers may well peel off to change that, and he’s gambling that if it does, it’s better to be ahead of the stampede than to be a part of it. If it doesn’t happen, he’s not going to win anyway, so there’s no point to going up against the current frontrunners.

(Heck, he may just be positioning himself to pick up the pieces in the post-Bush era.)

Betcha Lady Cheney’s making “other plans” for tonite, away from the Naval Observatory. Darth’ll be spitting fire.

heh

Swopa — you’re right; my mistake.

Every time the Republicans, and Liarman, lose a vote in Congress, another chink in their armor falls away.

Today was *another* good day.

selise @ 117

Fineline @ 109

The Boy King does not suffer humiliation kindly.

maybe he just need some more practice? *g*

It no longer seems like Bush would be much fun to have a beer with.

TeddySanFran @ 119

Betcha Lady Cheney’s making “other plans” for tonite, away from the Naval Observatory. Darth’ll be spitting fire.

heh

If I were a deer I’d be staying off the grounds too.

Is the hatred towards Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid for previous actions, his ongoing love-fest with Lieberman, or is there something more?

I have major difficulties with Reid on several issues, but the fact of the matter is that today — against many predictions, he cobbled together enough votes (with help from 2 Republicans) to defeat the Cochran amendment. So for today, I’m willing to THANK Senator Reid, even if the results could not have been achieved without help from Hagel (finally putting his vote where his mouth is) and Smith (feeling re-election pressure, no doubt).

Unlike the House, the Senate is not really in Democratic Party control (with Senator Johnson’s absence) even with committee chair control.

siun # 77

We have, though, been rattling rockets at Syria since 1970 — and those high jacks into the Jordan desert by the Syrian border (On PBS lately), and the Syrians are used to it. at bottom they just want their land down from the Golan Heights to the lake edge, and they’ll shuy up…. well thet’d probably like their bit of coast back which is now called Lebanon, taken from them by Sykes-Picot.

It is a pity they are such miserable people… popularly considered the most miserable together with the Sa’udis!

But we just do not have enough weaponry to do it all from the air, and we all know` we have not enough soldiers. When I was one we had about 450,000 in Germany alone.

TeddySanFran @ 119

Betcha Lady Cheney’s making “other plans” for tonite, away from the Naval Observatory. Darth’ll be spitting fire.

heh

Naval Observatory = Eye of Sauron

Sparkles the Iguana @ 123

If I were a deer I’d be staying off the grounds too.

If I were anybody at all I’d be staying off the grounds. Big Time isn’t exactly known for his fire discipline.

A secret deadline? OMG — sounds like Nixon’s “secret plan” to end the war in 1972, which turned out never to have existed. If a secret deadline falls in the forest, would Chimpy hear (abide by) it? Don’t make me laugh!

Here’s the picture of Abu running away from the press conference (front page of Huffpo):

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/

I Love Jane Hamsher @ 20

bdu @
6

Alright, let’s get this thing passed so we can send it off to President Temper Tantrum!

Don’t count on Smirk vetoing this. I bet he’ll use a signing statement on it. He’ll take too big of a PR hit if he vetoes this. And we know he loves his signing statements

Won’t his signing statement be made public? He only gets away with it if it’s not publicized.

“post-Bush era”

Redshift, that is music to my ears!

You can afford to heap lavish Democratic praise on Joe Lieberman when you have the votes to make him completely irrelevent.
He can’t swing the vote Republican and he looks like a completely unscrupulous individaul. But Harry Reid just made him a liberal by saying how much he respects him.
Must be fun to be Joe this evening.

Sparkles the Iguana @ 123

TeddySanFran @ 119

Betcha Lady Cheney’s making “other plans” for tonite, away from the Naval Observatory. Darth’ll be spitting fire.

heh

If I were a deer I’d be staying off the grounds too.

Or a very old man.

npr

pryor-against surge and for classified timetable

npr-how could you keep it secret?

pryor-yadah yadah—-THEN hasn’t been congress leaking, has been administration–look at the valerie plame matter……….(oh my……*)

support armor, ammo, etc., they need, etc.,

npr–if they knew didn’t have votes would you vote other way?

no, political situation, iraqis need to step up, etc.

*slipped a big one in there….said the words, administration leak, valerie plame……….all in the same sentence

so, he didn’t do one thing in the senate because he wants a secret timeline, but definitely did something else on the radio…….weird

mc @ 121

Every time the Republicans, and Liarman, lose a vote in Congress, another chink in their armor falls away.

Today was *another* good day.

Yeah. The wheels are falling off the “invincible juggernaut”.

TeddySanFran @ 131

“post-Bush era”

Redshift, that is music to my ears!

Hopefully that includes all members of the Bush clan. No more Bush eras.

dmac @ 134

npr

pryor-against surge and for classified timetable

npr-how could you keep it secret?

pryor-yadah yadah—-THEN hasn’t been congress leaking, has been administration–look at the valerie plame matter……….(oh my……*)

support armor, ammo, etc., they need, etc.,

npr–if they knew didn’t have votes would you vote other way?

no, political situation, iraqis need to step up, etc.

*slipped a big one in there….said the words, administration leak, valerie plame……….all in the same sentence

so, he didn’t do one thing in the senate because he wants a secret timeline, but definitely did something else on the radio…….weird

Pryor must be getting the bark stripped off him already by his constituents, if he’s doing that weird post-vote dance.

Siun @ 116

Angie – yep, the Syrians are watching their border but that’s too fact based for our team.

btw, have you seen the documentary on pbs about Iranian pilgrims to Karbala … really stunning

and the Syrians are taking in the millions of Iraqi refugees that we have forced out of their country without a care, concern, or financial aid. In fact, we have essentially shut down our borders to these refugees! The Syrians gave shelter to the Lebanese who fled for shelter and safety, too during the Israel/Lebanon war, too! They are a poor country and are trying to take care of their bombed and terrified neighbors. Don’t we have any obligation???

No, I have not seen the documentary– but thank you for the heads- up. I will look for it and watch it.

OT: More on Tony Snow’s cancer relapse. It’s in his liver–which is often a hint to a bad prognosis in my experience. As I said this morning, I wouldn’t wish this on anybody. I only wish I could offer better than my condolences on a wasted life.

EvilDrPuma @ 139

OT: More on Tony Snow’s cancer relapse. It’s in his liver–which is often a hint to a bad prognosis in my experience. As I said this morning, I wouldn’t wish this on anybody. I only wish I could offer better than my condolences on a wasted life.

I don’t like Tony Snow’s public persona and hate Fox News, but I sincerely hope that Snow can somehow beat his cancer.

portia.vz @ 132

You can afford to heap lavish Democratic praise on Joe Lieberman when you have the votes to make him completely irrelevent.
He can’t swing the vote Republican and he looks like a completely unscrupulous individaul. But Harry Reid just made him a liberal by saying how much he respects him.
Must be fun to be Joe this evening.

You know, this reminds me of something either Stoller or Bowers said over at MyDD.

Now that the Democrats are in power, it is more necessary to watch their legislative action than their rhetoric.

When they were in the minority, rhetoric was really all the Democrat leadership had.

Now the Democrats are in power, and sometimes they may use rhetoric in ways that seem off-putting towards us, but which is in fact part and parcel of a strategy that will get the best possible legislation passed. When this happens, we should be understanding – as painful as it may be.

That being said, I really can’t tell what Harry was up to in this specific instance. I’d need more information to really assess it. But I am quite happy with the legislative outcome today. For now, I’ll focus on that.

Dear Jane Hamsher,

I, as Secretary for the Connecticut for Lieberman Party would respectfully request a retraction to your above statement.

No official member of the CFL Party would have voted along the lines of Mark Pryor.

We actually haven’t figured out what political party Joe is, but he sure isn’t one of us.

Sincerely,
Sue
CFL Secretary

twolf1 @ 126

TeddySanFran @ 119

Betcha Lady Cheney’s making “other plans” for tonite, away from the Naval Observatory. Darth’ll be spitting fire.

heh

Naval Observatory = Eye of Sauron

I got pulled over for speeding late one night on my way home from work by the uniformed Secret Service police detail right there on Mass Ave, in front of the Observatory. When the first guy pulled me over the rest of them descended.

Best quote from the cop: None of you speeders think that we can pull you over – I guess you learned different!

Nor Cal John @ 124

Is the hatred towards Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid for previous actions, his ongoing love-fest with Lieberman, or is there something more?

Reid also worked with Bill Frist to get the Military Commissions Act passed with only pro forma resistance.

portia.vz @ 132

You can afford to heap lavish Democratic praise on Joe Lieberman when you have the votes to make him completely irrelevent.
He can’t swing the vote Republican and he looks like a completely unscrupulous individaul. But Harry Reid just made him a liberal by saying how much he respects him.
Must be fun to be Joe this evening.

Every time Harry says how much he respects Joe, it’s like Reid’s giving Joe a little more rope to hang himself. Harry the boxer knows when to pull his punches and when to jab, and of course, when to deliver the knockout uppercut. (excuse the mixed metaphors) Remember, Harry’s the head honcho-he’s still gotta line up all the Dems (and a few Republics) before he can cut Joe loose.

twolf1 @ 126

TeddySanFran @ 119

Betcha Lady Cheney’s making “other plans” for tonite, away from the Naval Observatory. Darth’ll be spitting fire.

heh

Naval Observatory = Eye of Sauron

There’s a little window up at the top of the Dick-house that looks just like the Eye of Sauron! (Or is that what you’re talking about.)

Nice pics of Cut and Run Gonzales.

Will the last coward out of the Whitehouse please turn off the lights…energy conservation ya know.

-GSD

Badwater @ 140

I don’t like Tony Snow’s public persona and hate Fox News, but I sincerely hope that Snow can somehow beat his cancer.

Cancer in any form is a horror that nobody deserves. If a cheap, accessible, sure-fire treatment was discovered tomorrow, everybody but the pharmaceutical and insurance bosses would be dancing in the streets.

EvilDrPuma @ 127

Sparkles the Iguana @ 123

If I were a deer I’d be staying off the grounds too.

If I were anybody at all I’d be staying off the grounds. Big Time isn’t exactly known for his fire discipline.

Specially now that the D.C. antigun law was ruled unconstitutional…..

CNN has reported that Tony Blair has said he will use other measures if diplomacy doesn’t work re: 15 sailors. Don’t know whether Tony Blair is using tough talk or whether MSM is reporting crisis after crisis in turgid mode to make war look “inevitable.” I sure do wish Congress would come up with a leash for ChimpCo re: Iran. I am beginning to think the media learned nothing from Iraq.

Whoa – Josh Marshall has a real teaser up at TPM:

“Remember that $140,000 contract Cunningham briber Mitchell Wade got with the White House back in 2002 for “office furniture.” We just found out what it was really for. Check back soon.”

EvilDrPuma @ 139

OT: More on Tony Snow’s cancer relapse. It’s in his liver–which is often a hint to a bad prognosis in my experience. As I said this morning, I wouldn’t wish this on anybody. I only wish I could offer better than my condolences on a wasted life.

Tony contributed support for an unjustifiable war that kills American men and women 30 years his junior. Perhaps an act of contrition would be in order. Maybe Katy Couric can interview him in the same manner as she did the Edwards’.

mui @ 149

CNN has reported that Tony Blair has said he will use other measures if diplomacy doesn’t work re: 15 sailors. Don’t know whether Tony Blair is using tough talk or whether MSM is reporting crisis after crisis in turgid mode to make war look “inevitable.” I sure do wish Congress would come up with a leash for ChimpCo re: Iran. I am beginning to think the media learned nothing from Iraq.

The corporate media bosses have made a lot of buckage out of this failed war. Of course they haven’t learned anything.

Runaway Gonzales and Fitz Photo here (sorry if posted earlier).
http://www.chicagotribune.com/…..;cset=true

EvilDrPuma @ 113

I couldn’t disagree more. Money has no perspective and does nothing; people use money to do things according to their perspectives. And that’s why signing statements have been worth a great deal to this administration: it allows them to ignore any law they choose or to twist laws to mean things Congress never intended to mean. Until Congress fights back on that…HARD!…we have no assurance that any money will be spent as we would like it, nor that any other action by this administration will be in accordance with the law, no matter what the bill says when Bush signs it.

I agree that they frequently flout the law, but I disagree that signing statements have much to do with it. They have ignored reporting requirements that they didn’t care for regardless of whether there was a signing statement or not. Can someone point me to an instance where they have actually cited a signing statement as justification for ignoring Congress?

I feel like signing statements are this big boogeyman that a lot of people are buying into (not you, my good Doctor, but this sentiment does get posted a lot.) “Oh, he’ll just use a signing statement and ignore it.” Signing statements have no force of law, and have never been upheld by any court. Until they get challenged and the Bushies say they’re relying on a signing statement, refusing to follow the law with a signing statement is exactly the same as refusing to follow it without one — it’s acting lawlessly.

They have actually backed down several times when this came close to happening, so I don’t think they actually want to test it. I think they know they’ll lose, and they want instead to get the signing statements into the record unchallenged, so the next Unilateral Executive can cite them when they’re further in the past and fewer people remember no precedent was ever established.

So I agree that they should be challenged vigorously, but it’s equally important the we not treat them as something that has any substance.

Of course, it could always be that Hagel’s conscience finally said: Enough. Hier stehe ich; ich kann nicht anders.

hackworth @ 151

EvilDrPuma @ 139

OT: More on Tony Snow’s cancer relapse. It’s in his liver–which is often a hint to a bad prognosis in my experience. As I said this morning, I wouldn’t wish this on anybody. I only wish I could offer better than my condolences on a wasted life.

Tony contributed support for an unjustifiable war that kills American men and women 30 years his junior. Perhaps an act of contrition would be in order. Maybe Katy Couric can interview him in the same manner as she did the Edwards’.

An act of contrition will assure that Tony cannot ever go back to Fox News.

hackworth @ 151

Tony contributed support for an unjustifiable war that kills American men and women 30 years his junior. Perhaps an act of contrition would be in order. Maybe Katy Couric can interview him in the same manner as she did the Edwards’.

The state of Snow’s soul is his problem. I won’t make it mine by wishing him ill in this.

EvilDrPuma @ 113

Caoimhin Laochdha @ 91

Recall that unlike officials in the DOJ, NSA, CIA, Pentagon, EPA . . . money $$ cannot read “signing statements.” Money can only follow the instructions in the text of an appropriations bill.

This bill is not giving/limiting the authority of the executive by telling the administration how to run FISA, for instance. Rather, this is an appropriations bill controlling the use of funds. Signing statements are not worth the paper on which they are written. From the perspective of the greenbacks, they are even less significant.

I couldn’t disagree more. Money has no perspective and does nothing; people use money to do things according to their perspectives. And that’s why signing statements have been worth a great deal to this administration: it allows them to ignore any law they choose or to twist laws to mean things Congress never intended to mean. Until Congress fights back on that…HARD!…we have no assurance that any money will be spent as we would like it, nor that any other action by this administration will be in accordance with the law, no matter what the bill says when Bush signs it.

Yes Congress needs to fight back hard. Harder than it anticipates and harder than it wants to. With that much I agree.

Signing statements are an excuse used by the Executive to break the law. They are not “authority” to do anything against the plain text/meaning of a law. Signing statements are not law nor do they justify/excuse criminality.

My point is that administrative official seek to use a signing statements for cover, with no legal authority, for illegal acts such as spying w/domestic wiretap or filing an affidavit to obtain a warrant with no legal authority. Spending money that does not exist or has not been appropriated or, most importantly, has been prohibited from being spent also cannot sloffed off with a signing statement.

That would be taking it to new level. Interpreting a law in a favorable, albeit illegitimate manner, is one thing. Printing money for an endeavor that Congress has expressly prohibited appropriations is a different ball game.

slainte
cl

Scarecrow @ 52

Swopa — Pryor quote from your blog:

“I’ve had a number of [Democrats] ask me why . . . but after I explain it they do understand where I’m coming from,” Pryor said.

They’re thinking, another planet.

I just spit ice tea all over the keyboard…

EvilDrPuma @ 153

mui @ 149

CNN has reported that Tony Blair has said he will use other measures if diplomacy doesn’t work re: 15 sailors. Don’t know whether Tony Blair is using tough talk or whether MSM is reporting crisis after crisis in turgid mode to make war look “inevitable.” I sure do wish Congress would come up with a leash for ChimpCo re: Iran. I am beginning to think the media learned nothing from Iraq.

The corporate media bosses have made a lot of buckage out of this failed war. Of course they haven’t learned anything.

I’m not sure how that’s so. They have certainly lost credibility.

orLaFourmiRouge @ 101

South Orange County Democrat @ 78

Harry Reid: “In this chamber is Joe Lieberman and there isn’t a senator I have more respect for than Joe Lieberman”

Channeling Shakespeare here:
“For Lieberman is an HONEST man…”

To paraphrase Bubba “It depends on what the meaning of ‘respect’ is.”

or what the meaning of “honest” is!

could someone explain the ‘enzi’ thing?

mulligatawny @ 154

Runaway Gonzales and Fitz Photo here (sorry if posted earlier).
http://www.chicagotribune.com/…..;cset=true

I love their matching suits.

bernhard (at moon of alabama – old off-site comments for billmon’s wiskey bar) has good summary up on why he’s nervous about iran situation….

*xyz @
151

Whoa – Josh Marshall has a real teaser up at TPM:

“Remember that $140,000 contract Cunningham briber Mitchell Wade got with the White House back in 2002 for “office furniture.” We just found out what it was really for. Check back soon.”

It seems Waxman has been busy writing letters again. The letter asks for document production regarding that $140K contract for computers and office furniture for the OVP. A link is provided to the actual contents of the letter on Waxman’s website. Boy, he’s good!

dmac @ 163

could someone explain the ‘enzi’ thing?

Rethug from WY not voting. Emptywheel, not surprisingly, knows why.

Been out of touch for last hour or so. What a nice surprise to come home to.
And it all started with Nancy Pelosi pulling it off in the House.
Now, I’m going to TPM for another surprise.

Fineline @ 167

dmac @ 163

could someone explain the ‘enzi’ thing?

Rethug from WY not voting. Emptywheel, not surprisingly, knows why.

A modern day Ida Tarbell.

Hugh @ 144

Reid also worked with Bill Frist to get the Military Commissions Act passed with only pro forma resistance.

Thank you for your response. Like I said, I have many issues with Reid — I just didn’t understand today’s hatred given the results of the Cochran amendment.

EvilDrPuma @ 139

OT: More on Tony Snow’s cancer relapse. It’s in his liver–which is often a hint to a bad prognosis in my experience. As I said this morning, I wouldn’t wish this on anybody. I only wish I could offer better than my condolences on a wasted life.

I was just looking. Snow has a Duke’s D staging which has a less than 5% 5 year survival rate. There is some indication that if the liver mets are small and few in number this rate rises to 20-30% but I do not think this is Snow’s case.

When I first heard this, I was thinking more along the lines of a year, possibly 18 months.

dalloway @ 128

A secret deadline? OMG — sounds like Nixon’s “secret plan” to end the war in 1972, which turned out never to have existed. If a secret deadline falls in the forest, would Chimpy hear (abide by) it? Don’t make me laugh!

I think the “secret plan” to end the war was what got him elected in 1968.

twolf1 @ 126

TeddySanFran @ 119

Betcha Lady Cheney’s making “other plans” for tonite, away from the Naval Observatory. Darth’ll be spitting fire.

heh

Naval Observatory = Eye of Sauron

Hmmm, I think of it more like Saruman’s tower; it was a perfectly nice place until it was turned to the purposes of the Dark Lord.

Phoenix Woman @ 156

Of course, it could always be that Hagel’s conscience finally said: Enough. Hier stehe ich; ich kann nicht anders.

It could also be that if Hagel thinks he’s going to be the next president, that he sure as hell wants a timetable on the war. Why would he vote to inherit an occupation?

twolf1 @ 126

TeddySanFran @ 119

Betcha Lady Cheney’s making “other plans” for tonite, away from the Naval Observatory. Darth’ll be spitting fire.

heh

Naval Observatory = Eye of Sauron

I bow to your wit and humor in these troubled times. Alas, Frodo hath failed and the ring still exists. http://politicalhumor.about.co…..drings.htm

I wonder if Reid’s effusiveness about RGJoe was the price for Landrieu and Nelsons’ votes.

“Say something nice about our spiritual leader and we’ll vote with you this time, Harry”

tbsa @ 43

OT via Raw Story:
WASHINGTON – Former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld cannot be tried on allegations of torture in overseas military prisons, a federal judge said Tuesday in a case he described as “lamentable.”
US District Judge Thomas F. Hogan threw out a lawsuit brought on behalf of nine former prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan. He said Rumsfeld cannot be held personally responsible for actions taken in connection with his government job.

Looks like it’s up to the Germans now.

If the bill they send to Bush includes a rough draft of the articles of impeachment, W might just be less inclined to veto it.

Arianna Huffington has suggested impeaching Gonzales to get to the bottom of it all. In lieu of bigger fish, that might just be “doable.”

Whatever target the articles of impeachment pick, they should be drafted and sent right along with the bill to Bush.

At least he will know what’s next, if he refuses to support the troops.

Badwater @ 136

TeddySanFran @ 131

“post-Bush era”

Redshift, that is music to my ears!

Hopefully that includes all members of the Bush clan. No more Bush eras.

“Stay outta the Bushes!” — I think that protest chant is going to be around a long time.

mui @ 161

EvilDrPuma @ 153

The corporate media bosses have made a lot of buckage out of this failed war. Of course they haven’t learned anything.

I’m not sure how that’s so. They have certainly lost credibility.

The so-called journalists have lost credibility, but I don’t believe for one minute that your typical corporate media exec gives a twitch what happens to their so-called journalists’ credibility. They hauled off a gold mine while their consumers were sucking their thumbs while waving a flag in the other hand, and they’ll do the same thing again for Iran if they can. In lesser degree, perhaps, but I guarantee you that many of the same thumb-suckers who fell for the Iraq scam actually believe that Iran poses an immediate threat. And they’ll tune in. War is good for business.

Well apparently it’s not only John McCain living in Neveraland, but Admiral FAllon (you know the guy in charge of the region over there now)told reporters in Iraq that, “There is no civil war in Iraq”, Michael Ware reporting on CNN Lou Dobbs show tonight. And to give Mr. Ware a bit of credit when he reported that he kind of scoffed at it, and then went on to say, “that that certainly would be news to the Iraqi’s living here.”

Fineline @ 109

The Boy King does not suffer humiliation kindly.

117
selise says:

March 27th, 2007 at 3:13 pm

maybe he just need some more practice? *g*

oh, that made me smile….problem is, i think he’s had plenty of that, and sees his grand scheme as being redeemed…….but doesn’t see that he is being humiliated by his own ‘glory’…..sad, very sad.

In this chamber is Joe Lieberman and there isn’t a carbon-based life form I have less respect for than Joe Lieberman.

Reality is, removing thousands of troops is cumbersome, tedious, and takes some time. It makes the troops sitting ducks in the process. They will either have to drive their humvees and tanks all the way through Iraq or abandon them. Perhaps a “secret” withdrawal date is better as long as our government abides by that date. Basically, just tell them we are leaving to put pressure on them, and then do it according to an undisclosed date…I know it is controversial, but the logistics of disengaging is not easy. IMHO

Was just reading about the Senate vote in an AP story (byline David Espo) — when my eyes nearly popped out of my head as I read this little paragraph:

The effect of the timeline would be to “snatch defeat from the jaws of progress in Iraq,” agreed Lieberman, who won a new term last fall in a three-way race after losing the Democratic nomination to an anti-war insurgent.

Soooo…Ned Lamont is an anti-war ‘insurgent’ now?

David Ehrenstein @ 183

In this chamber is Joe Lieberman and there isn’t a carbon-based life form I have less respect for than Joe Lieberman.

I advise Henry Waxman to check into the assertion that Joe Lieberman is a carbon-based life form.

lisadawn82 @ 160

Scarecrow @ 52

Swopa — Pryor quote from your blog:

“I’ve had a number of [Democrats] ask me why . . . but after I explain it they do understand where I’m coming from,” Pryor said.

They’re thinking, another planet.

I just spit ice tea all over the keyboard…

Lisa — the thought was Swopa’s: read through his post to the end.

rufo_firenza @ 185

Was just reading about the Senate vote in an AP story (byline David Espo) — when my eyes nearly popped out of my head as I read this little paragraph:

The effect of the timeline would be to “snatch defeat from the jaws of progress in Iraq,” agreed Lieberman, who won a new term last fall in a three-way race after losing the Democratic nomination to an anti-war insurgent.

Soooo…Ned Lamont is an anti-war ‘insurgent’ now?

Good catch. And why isn’t it “jaws of victory” any more, hmmmm? Is St. John trying to lower the limbo stick of for our expectations just a tad?

Fineline @ 167

dmac @ 163

could someone explain the ‘enzi’ thing?

Rethug from WY not voting. Emptywheel, not surprisingly, knows why.

No I don’t. But sometimes Senators offer each other courtsey abstentions, to even off the vote to what it would have been. So, knowing that Johnson can’t vote, a nice Republican might agree to abstain from his pro-war vote.

That was a guess, but I don’t know if it’s true.

Nolan Finley – The Detroit News

US Attorney Story

The story is a curiousity, a scrap over a poorly chosen words by Gonzalez.

CNN’s Baghdad Correspondent: McCain’s Claim That Escalation Is Working Is ‘Ludicrous,’ ‘Way off Base’

But according to CNN reporter Michael Ware, who has been in Iraq for four years, McCain is “way off base.” He stated, “To suggest that there’s any neighborhood in this city where an American can walk freely is beyond ludicrous. I’d love Sen. McCain to tell me where that neighborhood is and he and I can go for a stroll.”

EvilDr.Puma @180
The so-called journalists have lost credibility, but I don’t believe for one minute that your typical corporate media exec gives a twitch what happens to their so-called journalists’ credibility. They hauled off a gold mine while their consumers were sucking their thumbs while waving a flag in the other hand, and they’ll do the same thing again for Iran if they can. In lesser degree, perhaps, but I guarantee you that many of the same thumb-suckers who fell for the Iraq scam actually believe that Iran poses an immediate threat. And they’ll tune in. War is good for business.

Watch MSNBC Squawk Box (its a stock market reporting show) or other financial market type teevee shows for plenty of war-mongering re: Iran.

They make war with Iran sound inevitable.

reid back up on senate floor. he’s proposing the schedule for amendments and debate for the supplemental funding bill.

EvilDrPuma @ 188

Good catch. And why isn’t it “jaws of victory” any more, hmmmm? Is St. John trying to lower the limbo stick of for our expectations just a tad?

That’s St. Joe, of course. Jeebus, if he and McCain weren’t trying so hard to be interchangeable, I could get things like this right.

Gordon Smith – Listen, as an Oregonian, I am thankful and appreciative of Mr. Smith’s, I think, heartfelt re-assessment of his stance on the Iraq War. I think he “got it” before too many of his fellow party members even thought of re-thinking their stance. Good for him. Right on…the problem is, he has consistently been too wrong on too many issues in the years that his party controlled this land. So, while I respect his willingness to re-think his stance on prior positions…I have a sorry feeling it has to do with the fact that he is up for re-election in 2008 in anti-war Oregon. OK – Call me cynical. The shoe fits.

David Ehrenstein @ 183

In this chamber is Joe Lieberman and there isn’t a carbon-based life form I have less respect for than Joe Lieberman.

That would include pond scum, would it not?

hackworth @ 196

David Ehrenstein @ 183

In this chamber is Joe Lieberman and there isn’t a carbon-based life form I have less respect for than Joe Lieberman.

That would include pond scum, would it not?

Hey, I got no grief with pond scum.

Scarecrow @ 187

lisadawn82 @ 160

Scarecrow @ 52

Swopa — Pryor quote from your blog:

“I’ve had a number of [Democrats] ask me why . . . but after I explain it they do understand where I’m coming from,” Pryor said.

They’re thinking, another planet.

I just spit ice tea all over the keyboard…

Lisa — the thought was Swopa’s: read through his post to the end.

Yes – Nice Swopa post. I’m backing away from my computer right now as I take another sip of ice tea….

does anyone (hugh?) know how binding the withdrawal timeline is in both the house and senate versions?

i’ll go try to figure it out on my own, but thought there might be a firepup who already knows the details…

thanks!

Guitar_Playing_Bastard @ 96

We can NEVER EVER let down our guard, that’s how we got into the mess we’re in now.

doG how I wish Lincoln had let the South secede.

Yahoo! I’ve been saying this for years. I’ve never known anyone else who thinks that way. Welcome to my little club.

OregonCindy @ 195

Gordon Smith – Listen, as an Oregonian, I am thankful and appreciative of Mr. Smith’s, I think, heartfelt re-assessment of his stance on the Iraq War. I think he “got it” before too many of his fellow party members even thought of re-thinking their stance. Good for him. Right on…the problem is, he has consistently been too wrong on too many issues in the years that his party controlled this land. So, while I respect his willingness to re-think his stance on prior positions…I have a sorry feeling it has to do with the fact that he is up for re-election in 2008 in anti-war Oregon. OK – Call me cynical. The shoe fits.

Nope, seeing reality isn’t cynical. I think it has everything to do with that.

TeddySanFran @
19

11/7 changed everything

My new favorite quote.

LS @ 184

Reality is, removing thousands of troops is cumbersome, tedious, and takes some time. It makes the troops sitting ducks in the process. They will either have to drive their humvees and tanks all the way through Iraq or abandon them. Perhaps a “secret” withdrawal date is better as long as our government abides by that date. Basically, just tell them we are leaving to put pressure on them, and then do it according to an undisclosed date…I know it is controversial, but the logistics of disengaging is not easy. IMHO

You are correct. Again, I refer folks to “Decent Interval” by Frank Snepp.

rufo_firenza @ 185

Was just reading about the Senate vote in an AP story (byline David Espo) — when my eyes nearly popped out of my head as I read this little paragraph:

The effect of the timeline would be to “snatch defeat from the jaws of progress in Iraq,” agreed Lieberman, who won a new term last fall in a three-way race after losing the Democratic nomination to an anti-war insurgent.

Soooo…Ned Lamont is an anti-war ‘insurgent’ now?

I am getting very sick of HoJoe’s turgid fake-Churchillian pose. I am getting sick of the suckers in the press who follow HoJoe’s language drift with no consciousness (or maybe just no conscience. period.)
So by implication Lamont supporters got called by left-wing lunatics, j*hadists, Al Qu*eda supporters etc. And our leader is Trostky’s little brother. At least anti-Lamont persons were more honest and shouted “communists” at us to our faces.

TPM has more about that $140,000 contract for office equipment.

Badwater @
106

Are the voters in CT happy with Lieberman? I can’t believe that he’s become the kind of Senator they wanted.

I’ve asked this in several threads, but no answer. Anyone in CT? Polls? Editorials?

Totally OT, and maybe this appears earlier in this thread, but here is the photo of the year, courtesy of the Chicago Tribune:

You talk and I’ll just listen.

Mauimom @ 206

Badwater @
106

Are the voters in CT happy with Lieberman? I can’t believe that he’s become the kind of Senator they wanted.

I’ve asked this in several threads, but no answer. Anyone in CT? Polls? Editorials?

Either not happy/& or state of denial.

OT but of interest, from TPM on what the $140,000 contract was for:

Well, we’ve found out what the contract was for.

Earlier this month, I told you about the upcoming book on the Cunningham scandal written by the guy who broke the story, Marcus Stern, and his colleagues at Copley News service, Jerry Kammer, Dean Calbreath, George E. Condon Jr, who as a team led coverage on the story for the next year.

The book’s called The Wrong Stuff: The Extraordinary Saga of Randy “Duke” Cunningham, the Most Corrupt Congressman Ever Caught. Today I got a glance at a key section of the book and it reveals that what that contract was really for was for screening the president’s mail.

That’s right, screening the president’s mail, presumably for Anthrax and other similar biohazards. Remember, this was in mid-2002, not long after the Anthrax scare that shut down several offices on Capitol Hill. So this is a pretty important contract, a pretty sensitive task on any number of levels.

….

more here: TPM

Oh, dear. Someone’s in trouble.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c…..013285.php

LandOfTheFree @
8

So, does Harry Reid think it is better for him to kiss the ass of Lieberman so Joe doesn’t completely defect from the Democrats? I just don’t understand why he keeps fawning over Lieberman.

Maybe he’s being sarcastic?

I totally do not get Harry Reid. Who decided this guy is a leader?

twolf1 @ 191

CNN’s Baghdad Correspondent: McCain’s Claim That Escalation Is Working Is ‘Ludicrous,’ ‘Way off Base’

But according to CNN reporter Michael Ware, who has been in Iraq for four years, McCain is “way off base.” He stated, “To suggest that there’s any neighborhood in this city where an American can walk freely is beyond ludicrous. I’d love Sen. McCain to tell me where that neighborhood is and he and I can go for a stroll.”

I just saw this video on C&L. I think McCain has lost his brain. No really – he was trying to convince Wolf that taking a stroll through Bagdad is a perfectly fine thing to do.

Now that’s some stupid shit.

barbara @ 207

Totally OT, and maybe this appears earlier in this thread, but here is the photo of the year, courtesy of the Chicago Tribune:

You talk and I’ll just listen.

That *is* photo of the year. Not photoshopped?

hugh 171

I was just looking. Snow has a Duke’s D staging which has a less than 5% 5 year survival rate. There is some indication that if the liver mets are small and few in number this rate rises to 20-30% but I do not think this is Snow’s case.

When I first heard this, I was thinking more along the lines of a year, possibly 18 months.

was refraining from commenting on this but——my 82 yr old uncle had/has colon, intestinal and liver cancer—surgeries, and liver spots, chemo, now just a little spot left on his liver……..friend, eaten up inside, stomach, kidney, liver, etc, surgeries, chemo………..both doing great…….uncle’s last cat scan only a little iddy biddy spot left, they don’t know why……..friend, amazing, she should be dead……..you never know, you just hope you have a good doctor and do what they say……….and eat right…….everybody eat right……..i command you……..food is fuel……eat right……..

barbara @ 207

Totally OT, and maybe this appears earlier in this thread, but here is the photo of the year, courtesy of the Chicago Tribune:

You talk and I’ll just listen.

WOW. That is Amazing! I’m saving that one! Thank you for sharing the link :-D

Guitar_Playing_Bastard @
96

We can NEVER EVER let down our guard, that’s how we got into the mess we’re in now.

doG how I wish Lincoln had let the South secede.

Millions of slaves would have disagreed, I’m sure.

At 159 EvilDrPuma says:

“The state of Snow’s soul is his problem. I won’t make it mine by wishing him ill in this.”

And there you have it. That’s why I read this blog, that’s the spirit of this community. Thank you for reminding us. That spirit we want to enlarge in this nation.

selise @
199

does anyone (hugh?) know how binding the withdrawal timeline is in both the house and senate versions?

i’ll go try to figure it out on my own, but thought there might be a firepup who already knows the details…

thanks!

This doesn’t directly answer your question, but Senator Feingold released a statement

Today marks an important step toward ending the war in Iraq. For the first time, the U.S. Senate will pass binding legislation requiring the President to begin withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq. While this is long overdue, it is a big step in the right direction and it brings us closer to ending our involvement in this disastrous war.

Mui @ 208:

Either not happy/& or state of denial.

Thanks.

I’d appreciate hearing, every so often, of stuff in the CT media on Holy Joe. I know there’s a big passel of CT voters who voted AGAINST him, and I’m wondering if they’re able to stir up some trouble. We’d love to help them!

LS – There is plenty of time to secretly withdraw early.

mc @ 210

Oh, dear. Someone’s in trouble.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c…..013285.php

Or maybe the contract was *ostensibly* for screening mail.

epu @ 148, big pharma and insurance bosses are dancing in the streets because there is no cancer cure in sight to affect their bottom line.

mui @ 213

barbara @ 207

Totally OT, and maybe this appears earlier in this thread, but here is the photo of the year, courtesy of the Chicago Tribune:

You talk and I’ll just listen.

That *is* photo of the year. Not photoshopped?

Straight from the Chicago Tribune. Do you think Fitz’s homing device is fully engaged?

Sally @ 222

epu @ 148, big pharma and insurance bosses are dancing in the streets because there is no cancer cure in sight to affect their bottom line.

Yah, that seems to be the logical corollary, doesn’t it? Bastards.

RE: “you talk & I’ll just listen”

Could someone please Photoshop a thought-bubble over Fitz’s head with “You lying sack of crap” in it?

Gonzo – in the Chicago Sun Times, sitting next to Fitz, says this:

“Certainly even before the disclosure of those memos, what was public was the fact that there was this review process. What was also public was that I had made the decision as to the designation of these individuals,” Gonzales said. “I look forward to working with Congress. I believe in keeping accountability.”

This guy is absolutely amazing… Just incredible! What did he just say? Would someone explain in 5 words or less what he just said?

Does he actually believe this shit? Does he actually think the American people, not to mention politically savvy politicians are going to believe this? How long can this vacuous simpleton keep talking this horse-shit?

Amazing!

Mauimom @ 225

RE: “you talk & I’ll just listen”

Could someone please Photoshop a thought-bubble over Fitz’s head with “You lying sack of crap” in it?

“‘Undistinguished,’ my hairy white Irish ass!”

Mauimom @ 206

Badwater @
106

Are the voters in CT happy with Lieberman? I can’t believe that he’s become the kind of Senator they wanted.

I’ve asked this in several threads, but no answer. Anyone in CT? Polls? Editorials?

I looked into that yesterday and his JAR there is 52%. Sorry, no link

Guidelines for Letters to Court on Behalf of Scooter Libby

Almost as effective as their foreign policy.
-

Goodling “plug-in aide”.

Abu Gonzalez’ new ad campaign to protect children — like, say. a bunch of 35 year old kids — from online predators:

Think Before You Post

Bwahahaha!

Scheduled to take 15 minutes of questions, Gonzo cut the press conference short after less than 3 minutes.

Gonzalez has got to resign soon. It’s clear that he can’t even do the basic PR functions of his job any more.

Video at:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/…..;cset=true

Guitar_Playing_Bastard @
96

We can NEVER EVER let down our guard, that’s how we got into the mess we’re in now.

doG how I wish Lincoln had let the South secede.

You know, I LIVE in the south, and I’m doing everything I can to change it. And I’m getting really tired of that particular comment from you. A lot of the “southern strategy” people are nothing more than descendants of carpetbaggers who came here from points north and stole everything they could lay their hands on during reconstruction and ever since. That includes the Bush family.

And now that the Northeast is depleted, the rest of them have descended on us like a plague of locusts. Just like now…all the northern contractors have been given all the work here by their political cronies and are ripping people off right and left, and bringing in their own subcontractors and workers or using people who are here illegally, after we were promised that all the work would stay here. My local contractor husband and his local contractor friends are PISSED. My husband was born and raised in NYC but has lived here since before we met. In a lot of ways, he says, the south is MUCH better than the north, especially in the way every-day folks treat each other. You didn’t see southerners running to New York in such organized numbers to rip you off after the WTC disaster.

Thanks for reaching out GPB. You’re a real sport.

(Mods, you can delete this if you want. I don’t like starting shit in the threads, but this really made me angry)

Nor Cal John @ 217

thank you!

mui @ 213

barbara @ 207

Totally OT, and maybe this appears earlier in this thread, but here is the photo of the year, courtesy of the Chicago Tribune:

You talk and I’ll just listen.

That *is* photo of the year. Not photoshopped?

Reports are that Gonzo may have called off the USAs on the West Texas State School, (see http://www.boston.com/news/edu…..le_system/) in which case “Project Safe Childhood” has an irony that just makes you cry.

Someone better detain Gonzo now — he has demonstrated that he is a flight risk.

I think we’ll be seeing a lot more of Hagel. It’s a turning point. He gets it, unlike the Senator from CFL.

Big tent, people, we can argue the details after we have prevented WWIII and preserved the Constitution.

selise @ 199

does anyone (hugh?) know how binding the withdrawal timeline is in both the house and senate versions?

i’ll go try to figure it out on my own, but thought there might be a firepup who already knows the details…

thanks!

Both the July 1 and October 1 dates require a Presidential certification to prevent the 180 day redeployment from beginning. The difference is that for the July 1 date only substantial progress needs to be asserted. The October 1 date OTOH has a list of things that need to have been done by that date or the redeployment begins.

epu @ 224, throw in diabetes, too. Lots of money to be made from those checking sugar levels.

Mauimom @ 219

. . . I’m wondering if they’re able to stir up some trouble. We’d love to help them!

I haven’t really kept up a lot. It has really taken a while for my post-election bitterness to wear off. I really think a concerted effort should be made to keep at Holy Joe with op-eds etc. and put up a holy stink to shake the complacency out of the people of the State of steady habits.Former supporters are still writing the occasional op-ed. CT media tends to be very very lazy. Hartford Courant, Colin Macenroe and MyLeft Nutmeg, CTBob are good sources to look. In fact, I should check in with CTBob.

emptywheel at 189

No I don’t. But sometimes Senators offer each other courtsey abstentions, to even off the vote to what it would have been. So, knowing that Johnson can’t vote, a nice Republican might agree to abstain from his pro-war vote.

That was a guess, but I don’t know if it’s true.

didn’t quote the whole recourse, you’re welcome margin fairies–see 189 for the rest—-thank you marcy for supposing an opinion, i don’t get the enzi thing, and wondered the specifics…….don’t know much about him, and wondered…….

I’ll bet there is something the Dems can offer say 11-12 Repubs to get them to override a veto….

Yes, that is correct. I was watching and tuned in. But, I was not yet 21, so I couldn’t vote. My draft card said 1-A, but I couldn’t vote.

Never confuse your government with your country. They are two different things.

laurie9 @
172

dalloway @ 128

A secret deadline? OMG — sounds like Nixon’s “secret plan” to end the war in 1972, which turned out never to have existed. If a secret deadline falls in the forest, would Chimpy hear (abide by) it? Don’t make me laugh!

I think the “secret plan” to end the war was what got him elected in 1968.

Hugh @ 235

selise @ 199

does anyone (hugh?) know how binding the withdrawal timeline is in both the house and senate versions?

i’ll go try to figure it out on my own, but thought there might be a firepup who already knows the details…

thanks!

Both the July 1 and October 1 dates require a Presidential certification to prevent the 180 day redeployment from beginning. The difference is that for the July 1 date only substantial progress needs to be asserted. The October 1 date OTOH has a list of things that need to have been done by that date or the redeployment begins.

thank you hugh!

how about in 2008 – any loopholes in either (house or senate) version?

IEvilDrPuma @
227

Mauimom @ 225

RE: “you talk & I’ll just listen”

Could someone please Photoshop a thought-bubble over Fitz’s head with “You lying sack of crap” in it?

“‘Undistinguished,’ my hairy white Irish ass!”

I’m thinkin’ he’s getting his playback retort ready. Maybe not “Madness! Madness!” this time, but “Drivel! Drivel!”

Lindy,

You seem to have been quite offended by generalizations about the South, yet your response is full of generalizations about the north.

From your diatribe it would appear that the South would be just hunky dory if it wasn’t for the “locusts” from the north coming down and making the world tough on all the nice folks down there.

I am sorry but that is a boatload of horseshit.

-GSD

AZ Matt @
209

OT but of interest, from TPM on what the $140,000 contract was for

Jeepers, I just had a really crappy, scary thought…I think I need to check the tinfoil, get it reseated.

What if the anthrax “attacks” were just an elaborate extortion scheme?

Cozumel @ 228

I looked into that yesterday and his JAR there is 52%. Sorry, no link

As a life- long resident of CT though, and person thoroughly versed in queer New English habits, I really, really question the polls. People in CT tend towards reticence over the phone talking about politics. An “o.k.” answer can mean, “I don’t want to get into detail” and explains why people were o.k.. with our criminal ex-gov and o.k with our tainted-by-association-with-Rowland current gov. o.k. is kind of nominally o.k.

Rayne—what, just because they targeted Congress and those journalists who opposed them? Plus decoy samples to people like Miller.

And an investigation that suddenly went underwater. I dunno call me old-fashioned, but I think the FBI knows more than they have been allowed to say.

selise @ 242

how about in 2008 – any loopholes in either (house or senate) version?

Yes,

After the conclusion of the 180-day period, the Secretary of Defense may not deploy or maintain members of the Armed Forces in Iraq for any purpose other than the following:

(1) Protecting American diplomatic facilities and American citizens, including members of the U.S. Armed Forces.
(2) Serving in roles consistent with customary diplomatic positions.
(3) Engaging in targeted special actions limited in duration and scope to killing or capturing members of al-Qaeda and other terrorist organizations with global reach.
(4) Training members of the Iraqi Security Forces.

Lindy and others, could we PLEASE stop fighting the War Between the States and FOCUS on the upcoming very possible World War III?

My people were Confederate. I would love to talk about the egregious acts of the aggressors but we don’t have the luxury. Need to make the current war in Iraq stop, in order not to have yet another 3,000 dead—disproportionately from the South—and yet another 50,000 crippled. And desperately need to prevent the Deciderer from ignoring Congress, the military, the diplomats, and basically the entire civilized world in his mad rush to begin ANOTHER war of aggression, against Iran. Time’s a wastin’.

Can we just talk about the South-North stuff later please? Posted with great love and affection for people on both sides.

Thank you.

About those letters for Libby’s sentencing @229, a commentor at the link notes:

I did some criminal defense work when I practiced and really what is being asked for is not out of line. It is standard on sentencing hearings for the defense to present well organized letters of support. And, btw, it is a no-no to take out the nasty ones. You cannot hide them from the court because one would be misleading the court. At least that was the rule where I practiced ~~ mostly state trials in Calif.

So…it might not be a bad idea to send any letters to BOTH the court and to defense counsel. That way, the judge would know if the lawyers were on the up and up about what people were saying about their client. And on your letter, be sure and note that you did send a copy to counsel and the court.

http://www.democraticundergrou….._id=516134

Just sayin’.
-

*xyz @ 79

So, how did George Allen vote?

Oh wait, he didn’t, because, with our help, Allen went down in flames in November.

Remember folks, we played a role in what happened today.

Take a moment, savor the progress we have begun, pat yourself on the back, and then keep working toward 2008!

Clap, clap, clap for us dfh’s!

mui @ 246

As a life- long resident of CT though, and person thoroughly versed in queer New English habits, I really, really question the polls. People in CT tend towards reticence over the phone talking about politics. An “o.k.” answer can mean, “I don’t want to get into detail” and explains why people were o.k.. with our criminal ex-gov and o.k with our tainted-by-association-with-Rowland current gov. o.k. is kind of nominally o.k.

If this is so (I don’t doubt you, just being subjunctive for the sake of argument), then 48% baldly saying they don’t approve would imply a much lower actual approval. Needless to say, the current corporate-media-whore pollsters aren’t going to bother worrying about nuances like what “OK” might actually mean in a New England context.

GSD @ 244

Lindy,

You seem to have been quite offended by generalizations about the South, yet your response is full of generalizations about the north.

From your diatribe it would appear that the South would be just hunky dory if it wasn’t for the “locusts” from the north coming down and making the world tough on all the nice folks down there.

I am sorry but that is a boatload of horseshit.

-GSD

Which is why i put in the note to the mods. I just got sick of hearing it from that quarter. And some of the generalizations are not that general. Go take a look at the southern coast…and the tex mex border. And no. The south won’t be hunky dory until the people here who actually are productive citizens get organized and change things…just like ordinary citizens in the rest of the country. I’m trying to be part of that, but that one particular comment burns me EVERY time GPB says it.

Michael Gordon is at it again flogging the Pentagon case for Iranians supplying arms to Iraqi militias. Full of unnamed sources and thin on critical thinking and analysis.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03…..ref=slogin

egregious @ 249

Lindy and others, could we PLEASE stop fighting the War Between the States and FOCUS on the upcoming very possible World War III?

Thank you.

I guess we are guilty of regional bias from time to time. It’s not nice.
I agree. I am very concerned over Chimpy and MSM’s Iran-baiting, and Iran’s perhaps less than wise rx. I think we better get congress to put a leash on chimpy before China gets mad and knocks out another satellite.

egregious @ 247

I dunno call me old-fashioned, but I think the FBI knows more than they have been allowed to say.

You mean the same FBI that handles investigations prosecuted by a highly politicized USDOJ?

Oh, I am absolutely certain the FBI knows more than their overlords permit them to disclose.

I see Andrew Sullivan (via TPM) has been laying off the Kool-Aid for a bit. He articulates what has concerned me for a while now about a particular case related to Abramoff that concerns $100 million dollars nearly wired offshore. Why did the Bayou Fund scam get prosecuted by a state AG’s office and not the feds? Who kept it from going to the feds in either AZ or NY??

Lindy, no harm, no foul. If someone rankles you, let ‘em know.

I must concur with Egregious, with 2 wars morphing into 3 it is not the time to refight one from 150 years ago.

-GSD

According to Politico, Pat Leahy says “No Immunity” for Monica Goodling – even though her attorney seems to be angling for it.

EvilDrPuma @ 252

mui @ 246

As a life- long resident of CT though, and person thoroughly versed in queer New English habits, I really, really question the polls. People in CT tend towards reticence over the phone talking about politics. An “o.k.” answer can mean, “I don’t want to get into detail” and explains why people were o.k.. with our criminal ex-gov and o.k with our tainted-by-association-with-Rowland current gov. o.k. is kind of nominally o.k.

If this is so (I don’t doubt you, just being subjunctive for the sake of argument), then 48% baldly saying they don’t approve would imply a much lower actual approval. Needless to say, the current corporate-media-whore pollsters aren’t going to bother worrying about nuances like what “OK” might actually mean in a New England context.

I am not sure where you got that. It’s the opposite. (And please don’t start getting into semantical logic.) CT folks are *wildly* unhappy with Chimpy and when those people start talking and see HoJoe as part of the picture, the curse words fly.

I’m incredibly conflicted about Reid. On the one hand, I can’t stand his thing with Lieberschmutz. OTOH, I have a feeling that this triumph of unity is due, in large part, to Harry. I guess my personal jury is still out on ‘em.

Really! I know many people in the South, and though they have their regional pride… and bias, like ALL REGIONS, they deal in modern cultural differences and resultant problems.

In many ways, the South is much more color blind than other parts of the United States – eg Orange County, Calif.

I am very familiar with Colorado Springs, home of a very militarish and fundamentalist evangelical population. Now THERE is a problem culture that needs to be confronted in its bigotry and hate. BUT, it has nothing to do with Pikes Peak or the Gold Rush…

egregious @ 249

Lindy and others, could we PLEASE stop fighting the War Between the States and FOCUS on the upcoming very possible World War III?

My people were Confederate. I would love to talk about the egregious acts of the aggressors but we don’t have the luxury. Need to make the current war in Iraq stop, in order not to have yet another 3,000 dead and yet another 50,000 crippled. And desperately need to prevent the Deciderer from ignoring Congress, the military, the diplomats, and basically the entire civilized world in his mad rush to begin ANOTHER war of aggression, against Iran. Time’s a wastin’.

Can we just talk about the South-North stuff later please? Posted with great love and affection for people on both sides.

Thank you.

Or we’ll all be in deep Macaca.

-GSD

everhopeful @ 258

According to Politico, Pat Leahy says “No Immunity” for Monica Goodling – even though her attorney seems to be angling for it.

Wonder if a few folks wouldn’t like to scrape up the cash to hire a PI to find Goodling right about now…?

everhopeful @ 258

According to Politico, Pat Leahy says “No Immunity” for Monica Goodling – even though her attorney seems to be angling for it.

Watch out for Politico, they have a very poor record on the truth. They are a glammed-up Drudge Report that should be viewed with a jaundiced eye.

-GSD

puesto @ 241

Yes, that is correct. I was watching and tuned in. But, I was not yet 21, so I couldn’t vote. My draft card said 1-A, but I couldn’t vote.

Never confuse your government with your country. They are two different things.

never confuse your government with your country……….i had a relative tell me that once, i never forgot it, it is what got me interested in what goes on in washington……..i was a cspan addict from when it started from that insight…….now i don’t have cable, or broadband, so i delight in the updates……never forgot that insight…….my country, my mind implodes at the visions you inspired in bringing that up……….thank you

mui @ 259

EvilDrPuma @ 252

mui @ 246

As a life- long resident of CT though, and person thoroughly versed in queer New English habits, I really, really question the polls. People in CT tend towards reticence over the phone talking about politics. An “o.k.” answer can mean, “I don’t want to get into detail” and explains why people were o.k.. with our criminal ex-gov and o.k with our tainted-by-association-with-Rowland current gov. o.k. is kind of nominally o.k.

If this is so (I don’t doubt you, just being subjunctive for the sake of argument), then 48% baldly saying they don’t approve would imply a much lower actual approval. Needless to say, the current corporate-media-whore pollsters aren’t going to bother worrying about nuances like what “OK” might actually mean in a New England context.

I am not sure where you got that. It’s the opposite. (And please don’t start getting into semantical logic.) CT folks are *wildly* unhappy with Chimpy and when those people start talking and see HoJoe as part of the picture, the curse words fly.

I think you might want to reread. What I wrote was that a 48% disapproval under the circumstances you describe is probably the result of pollsters ignoring cultural context to make “OK” sound more favorable. I’m agreeing with you.

New thread from Jane.

It’s Hard Out Here for a Crook

Enjoy.

Rayne @ 263

everhopeful @ 258

According to Politico, Pat Leahy says “No Immunity” for Monica Goodling – even though her attorney seems to be angling for it.

Wonder if a few folks wouldn’t like to scrape up the cash to hire a PI to find Goodling right about now…?

MONICA GOODLING
GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE
DOJ

George W. Bush
$750

5311 CHIEFTAIN CIRCLE
ALEXANDRIA, VA 22312

http://www.fundrace.org/neighb…..rch=Search by Name

; )

Hugh – I guess if Gordon/NYT keeps repeating himself someone might start believing….lies.

beyond pathetic

GSD @ 264

everhopeful @ 258

According to Politico, Pat Leahy says “No Immunity” for Monica Goodling – even though her attorney seems to be angling for it.

Watch out for Politico, they have a very poor record on the truth. They are a glammed-up Drudge Report that should be viewed with a jaundiced eye.

-GSD

That’s why I didn’t post a link, GSD – just thought I’d state where it was from and let the reader be the decider…

And Rayne @263 – LOL – is she still missing?

Cozumel @ 268

There was a report on CNN earlier today that said nobody’s seen her, neighbors don’t know where she is.

She’s skipped.

From reading extensive comments – much from attorneys – in the TPM blog, it seems a claim of 5th amendment is up to the forum for each question – ie; not to whether they appear or not – to determine if there is a basis for this protection. In other words, I believe Goodling has to appear, and take each question, consider it against her rights and plead the 5th for each question.

For example, they may ask her if the light bill in her office was paid. In this instance the appearance is not protected under the 5th. Only the question, each and every one standing on its own scale.

Besides GREAT THEATRE! Like watching The Untouchables with Elliot Ness [ many years ago..]

Rayne @ 263

everhopeful @ 258

According to Politico, Pat Leahy says “No Immunity” for Monica Goodling – even though her attorney seems to be angling for it.

Wonder if a few folks wouldn’t like to scrape up the cash to hire a PI to find Goodling right about now…?

egregious @ 249

Lindy and others, could we PLEASE stop fighting the War Between the States and FOCUS on the upcoming very possible World War III?

Thank you.

egregious, i’m not fighting civil war. I live in New Orleans, and I’m fighting to survive here and now. I don’t need you to tell me about the possible war that’s coming. On top of everything else, it’s another thing to add to the reasons I don’t sleep at night. But of course, there are much more important considerations than the shambles my life has turned into, and I keep volunteering, donating, working, writing and all the things all of us are doing. Thank you for your understanding. /snark

EvilDrPuma @ 266
Er, o.k. pardon the testiness. I am a little testy when it comes to CT, because a lot of dumn yokels voted for him out of the usual compacency, and yet I can’t bear to see others bash CT yokels. I guess I am with Lindy on regional sensitivity, although I am not accusing you in particular of bias. It’s just a general testiness. I lashed out. Sorry.

I believe this is a paraphrase from a Michael Gorbachev quote..

Mark Twain said; A patriot serves his country all of the time, and his government when it deserves it.

This is a distinction which the right needs constantly be reminded, I have found.

dmac @ 265

puesto @ 241

Yes, that is correct. I was watching and tuned in. But, I was not yet 21, so I couldn’t vote. My draft card said 1-A, but I couldn’t vote.

Never confuse your government with your country. They are two different things.

never confuse your government with your country……….i had a relative tell me that once, i never forgot it, it is what got me interested in what goes on in washington……..i was a cspan addict from when it started from that insight…….now i don’t have cable, or broadband, so i delight in the updates……never forgot that insight…….my country, my mind implodes at the visions you inspired in bringing that up……….thank you

Grandma Millie @ 12

Tom @
2

Oh PLEASE shut up, Harry.

How do we get rid of Harry?.

We don’t. Harry is just being a politician. You know what politics is, right? It’s the art of saying “Nice doggie” while you’re looking around for a big ol’ stick.

Whatever reasons he has for playing nice with Joe “Every Man For Myself” Lieberman, Reid put the coalition together that kept the amendment from passing. He’s doing what he’s supposed to. Most of the time, anyway.

EvilDrPuma @ 266
Umm, yeah also you’re right. I was spitting mad when I saw that director of the Quinnipiac polls smirking smiling on TV a few weeks ago, saying that Rudy Giuliani would be CT’s choice across party affiliations. I mean WTF?

I encourage everyone to let Harry know how much support he’ll get if he continues to support LIEberman

cheers

Rayne @ 271

Cozumel @ 268

There was a report on CNN earlier today that said nobody’s seen her, neighbors don’t know where she is.

She’s skipped.

Check the basement of Dick Cheney’s undisclosed location.

lindy 273

ou.

egregious, i’m not fighting civil war. I live in New Orleans, and I’m fighting to survive here and now. I don’t need you to tell me about the possible war that’s coming. On top of everything else, it’s another thing to add to the reasons I don’t sleep at night. But of course, there are much more important considerations than the shambles my life has turned into, and I keep volunteering, donating, working, writing and all the things all of us are doing. Thank you for your understanding. /snark

be heartened to know that tavis smiley just did a segment with one of your reps last night…….and not everyone has put your situation aside……….and the north south repetition will always drum to those that hear it, the rest of us see each other as people………livin’………is there something specific that i can do to help you? if so, would be willing

1,467 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..

Citizens LS and raven:

“Reality is, moving thousands of troops is cumbersome, tedious and takes some time. It makes the troops sitting ducks in the process…”

Brothers, the reality is that after the first 6 months of this occupation, a withdrawal would’ve required another couple a battalions probably to secure Baghdad and the air strips and another couple ta cover the other two er three egresses. Most of the brass who have been talkin’ about this over the last couple a years have worried that we may need a division jest ta run cover and shoot our way out…we ken get ‘em out fairly soon (remember the ‘Nam) but it it will be bloody unless there is diplomacy includin’ the Iranians and the Syrians.

But this is why, of course, attackin’ Iran and/or Syria is criminal…because it places our troops in more danger than they already are or hafta be: “Madness! Madness! Madness!”

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, WE OWE IT TO THE KIDZ HUNKERED DOWN IN THE SAND OUT THERE!!

dmac @ 280

…..is there something specific that i can do to help you? if so, would be willing

Your kindness brought tears to my eyes. Thank you. All I ask of anyone is that they pay attention to what is happening here.

Kathy @
54

I would like to know what Liberman’s – or Bush or Cheney or any neocon’s- definition of Victory or even “Progress” IS?

“Progress” is keeping the war going, so they can continue to make money from it, despite the public being against it.

“Victory” is handing the war over to the next President (presumably a Dem), so they (and the party) can stop it and then be labeled ‘traitor’ by slimey off-the-books swiftboater types forevermore.

It’s all politics.
It’s all about winning.
It’s all about POWER and MONEY.

They certainly don’t care about the general public.

I do not think you can just have your lawyer send a letter and be a no show under the 5th Amendment. I really think she is in contempt IF they issue a subpoena.

NOW, all the articles I have read say they have only AUTHORIZED issuing subpoena’s not ISSUED them. Big difference.

Anyone have more facts on this?

Omir the Storyteller @ 278

Rayne @ 271

Cozumel @ 268

There was a report on CNN earlier today that said nobody’s seen her, neighbors don’t know where she is.

She’s skipped.

Check the basement of Dick Cheney’s undisclosed location.

perhaps with this vote tables are turning at least i hope so – chimpy thought the vote would fail – but no such luck chimpy so we know he’s going to veto who knows it may get over-ridden………….

well, i was trying to post, and my browser quit, tried to get back in the mode, looked to see if it posted and saw that lindy had commented that she had tears in her eyes, so i guess my comment made it in……i have dial-up, takes a while to catch back up……..but if there is something that people can be doing, please say………….

proxima123 at frognet dot com let me know what is happening down there, really want to know. really, email me, want to know…..harry shearer got me hooked on new orleans and the area and what is happening there…….and other reasons i won’t get into here.

dmac @ 280

lindy 273

ou.

egregious, i’m not fighting civil war. I live in New Orleans, and I’m fighting to survive here and now. I don’t need you to tell me about the possible war that’s coming. On top of everything else, it’s another thing to add to the reasons I don’t sleep at night. But of course, there are much more important considerations than the shambles my life has turned into, and I keep volunteering, donating, working, writing and all the things all of us are doing. Thank you for your understanding. /snark

be heartened to know that tavis smiley just did a segment with one of your reps last night…….and not everyone has put your situation aside……….and the north south repetition will always drum to those that hear it, the rest of us see each other as people………livin’………is there something specific that i can do to help you? if so, would be willing

Ditto. I would like nothing better than to put ChimpCO behind us, so we can rebuild New Orleans and make it the city that all its residents want it to be.

Lindy at 273:

egregious, i’m not fighting civil war. I live in New Orleans, and I’m fighting to survive here and now. I don’t need you to tell me about the possible war that’s coming. On top of everything else, it’s another thing to add to the reasons I don’t sleep at night. But of course, there are much more important considerations than the shambles my life has turned into, and I keep volunteering, donating, working, writing and all the things all of us are doing. Thank you for your understanding. /snark

Wo. Somehow this has gotten way off track. First of all I was trying to DEFEND you. Did you catch that my people are Confederate?? Second I would be ashamed to add to your post-Katrina burden, my church and I personally have tried very hard to assist with recovery efforts in New Orleans. Third, I am not trying to add to your troubles by suggesting that you become involved in the anti Iran war efforts.

Somehow I have badly miscommunicated. I am sorry. Please accept my apology for adding to your considerable burden.

I sometimes see the discussion here busting thru the guardrails and getting extremely off track, and the idea that we might get embroiled in another South-North discussion worried me in the context of things that are happening now wrt Iran.

I also keep volunteering, donating, working, and writing, in my case for small children in yet another enemy’s country. We are not on opposite sides, it pains me to think you have interpreted my words that way. I am truly sorry.

mui @ 287

dmac @ 280

lindy 273

ou.

egregious, i’m not fighting civil war. I live in New Orleans, and I’m fighting to survive here and now. I don’t need you to tell me about the possible war that’s coming. On top of everything else, it’s another thing to add to the reasons I don’t sleep at night. But of course, there are much more important considerations than the shambles my life has turned into, and I keep volunteering, donating, working, writing and all the things all of us are doing. Thank you for your understanding. /snark

be heartened to know that tavis smiley just did a segment with one of your reps last night…….and not everyone has put your situation aside……….and the north south repetition will always drum to those that hear it, the rest of us see each other as people………livin’………is there something specific that i can do to help you? if so, would be willing

Ditto. I would like nothing better than to put ChimpCO behind us, so we can rebuild New Orleans and make it the city that all its residents want it to be.

Thank you, mui.

egregious @ 288

Lindy at 273:

egregious, i’m not fighting civil war. I live in New Orleans, and I’m fighting to survive here and now. I don’t need you to tell me about the possible war that’s coming. On top of everything else, it’s another thing to add to the reasons I don’t sleep at night. But of course, there are much more important considerations than the shambles my life has turned into, and I keep volunteering, donating, working, writing and all the things all of us are doing. Thank you for your understanding. /snark

Wo. Somehow this has gotten way off track. First of all I was trying to DEFEND you. Did you catch that my people are Confederate?? Second I would be ashamed to add to your post-Katrina burden, my church and I personally have tried very hard to assist with recovery efforts in New Orleans. Third, I am not trying to add to your troubles by suggesting that you become involved in the anti Iran war efforts.

Somehow I have badly miscommunicated. I am sorry. Please accept my apology for adding to your considerable burden.

I sometimes see the discussion here busting thru the guardrails and getting extremely off track, and the idea that we might get embroiled in another South-North discussion worried me in the context of things that are happening now wrt Iran.

I also keep volunteering, donating, working, and writing, in my case for small children in yet another enemy’s country. We are not on opposite sides, it pains me to think you have interpreted my words that way. I am truly sorry.

Apology not necessary. GPB pissed me off and my filters are not working all that well. I blew off in every direction. I’m sorry about that. I really try hard not to do that.

Liddy Dole, and Susan Collins voting for no end date on Iraq. DailyKos says they’re vulnerable in ‘08 and now I believe more so by this vote.

Liddy especially since she didn’t deliver the RNC fund raising goal expected in the last election cycle. So they’re not too happy with her.

The more I see what is happening in a Dem. Congress,the Karl Rove strategy seems to work only if the Am.people are not paying attention.

lindy-
i meant it about emailing me

proxima123 at frognet dot com

emptywheel @
115

tbsa @
43

OT via Raw Story:
WASHINGTON – Former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld cannot be tried on allegations of torture in overseas military prisons, a federal judge said Tuesday in a case he described as “lamentable.”
US District Judge Thomas F. Hogan threw out a lawsuit brought on behalf of nine former prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan. He said Rumsfeld cannot be held personally responsible for actions taken in connection with his government job.

This is the same standard that is likely to get the Wilsons’ lawsuit thrown out, btw. Apparently, if you do it on government time, it’s okay…

Now about that trip to Belgium Rummy was thinkign about…

It’s called Sovereign Immunity

Who is Enzi (R-WY) and why did he not vote?

Jane Hamsher @ 73

Bostontom @ 31

“So, does Harry Reid think it is better for him to kiss the ass of Lieberman so Joe doesn’t completely defect from the Democrats? I just don’t understand why he keeps fawning over Lieberman.”

Yes he does and so do I. Unfettered control of oversight is worth some words. And yes, before the flames – I know that the Dems keep control in case of a 50-50 split, except that Tim J. is still recuperating and shenanigans happen. So keep those Dem committee chairs, even if it means choking back one’s gorge for the next two years

Even if Joe switches parties the committee chairs don’t change.

I keep hearing this here. Yet when I personally asked my Senator from Vermont, he said this is false. If Joe flips, the majority changes.

DairyMaid @
295

Jane Hamsher @ 73

Bostontom @ 31

“So, does Harry Reid think it is better for him to kiss the ass of Lieberman so Joe doesn’t completely defect from the Democrats? I just don’t understand why he keeps fawning over Lieberman.”

Yes he does and so do I. Unfettered control of oversight is worth some words. And yes, before the flames – I know that the Dems keep control in case of a 50-50 split, except that Tim J. is still recuperating and shenanigans happen. So keep those Dem committee chairs, even if it means choking back one’s gorge for the next two years

Even if Joe switches parties the committee chairs don’t change.

I keep hearing this here. Yet when I personally asked my Senator from Vermont, he said this is false. If Joe flips, the majority changes.

The majority changes, but the committee chairs do not.

The times they are a changin’….

Pelosi to Bush—-

Who’s your Mama!

(Yeah!!!)

i love it when a plan comes together….. dems got their testicals back – now lets stiffen that spine……

ohhhhhhhhhhh its wonderful to be home and have my boat anchored in the lake ;o}

alank @
293

emptywheel @
115

tbsa @
43

OT via Raw Story:
WASHINGTON – Former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld cannot be tried on allegations of torture in overseas military prisons, a federal judge said Tuesday in a case he described as “lamentable.”
US District Judge Thomas F. Hogan threw out a lawsuit brought on behalf of nine former prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan. He said Rumsfeld cannot be held personally responsible for actions taken in connection with his government job.

This is the same standard that is likely to get the Wilsons’ lawsuit thrown out, btw. Apparently, if you do it on government time, it’s okay…

Now about that trip to Belgium Rummy was thinkign about…

It’s called Sovereign Immunity

This goes into the discretionary functionary exemption of the FTCA

Possible pitfall

If Plame sued Rove or any other White House aide for redress under the tort laws of the District of Columbia, she would have to confront the “discretionary function exception.”

The FTCA authorizes a broad waiver of the government’s sovereign immunity for claims in tort. But the statute exemptsexternal link “any claim . . . based upon the exercise or performance or the failure to exercise or perform a discretionary function or duty on the part of a federal agency or employee of the Government, whether or not the discretion involved be abused.”

article continues

Lieberman shoots himself in the foot! Says “for the first time in a long time, we have reason for cautious optimism in Iraq” What about all the incautiously optimistic statements he’s been spouting for years?
Check it out:
http://electioncentral.tpmcafe…../lieberman

If anyone saw Wolf Blitzer’s “Situation Room” tonight, Wolf and CNN scored a rare (for them) moment of my respect. He had McCain on there talking about how f****g GREAT things are going in Iraq……how there are now places in Baghdad where Americans can walk w/out fear…..that Peteraeus himself travels around in like, a top down convertible or something. Then they cut to CNN’s Baghdad reporter, who basically said 7 ways to Sunday how totally full of s**t McCain is…..that if McCain know a safe street in Baghdad the reporter would love to strolll down it with him……that no Westerner in their right mind — least of all Petraeus, would go anywhere unprotected…..etc. etc.

I heard on the radio today that we should say it that the democrats want to be the first to declare peace.

njprogressive @ 10

This is great news. The U.S. Congress has never stopped a war going full tilt before. Kudos, props, and a heartfelt thank you to the Democratic leadership in both houses, and to the liberals and progressives who pushed hard to make this a reality.

And they’re not about to start now. This bill is not going to stop the occupation of Iraq and enables Bush (or his Dem successor) to invade Iran. The only withdrawal is of “combat” troops by August next year; bases, and troops remain indefinitely.

The timeline is NON-BINDING. Bush will either use signing statements to nix the “symbolic” timetable and take the funding and run full bore; or veto it as undermining the troops.

orionATL @
95

wow.

i think the damn might be cracking.

if that happens, i would not want to be a bush loyalist in any high-level govt position in washington.

if the cracking grows, we may shortly have an answer to a central politico-biological question:

when the unitary executive turns tail and runs, does it run with one collective tail or with many?

does in run in one direction or many?

does it run solely to texas for cover? or take refuge also in mississippi, oklahoma, south carolina, kansas, idaho?

Or maybe Paraguay.