Architects of the McCain/Lieberman war move to strike withdrawal provisions from the supplemental, because heaven forbid it should ever end:
“We will not filibuster the bill,” said Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz. “But we guarantee — the president has guaranteed his veto. And I’m sure there will be sufficient number of votes to sustain his veto.”
Still, it is a priority of Senate Republicans to remove the Iraq withdrawal provisions from the measure. The ranking Republican on the Senate Appropriations Committee, Thad Cochran of Mississippi, announced during the panel’s markup that he intends to try to strike the provisions, which would mandate the withdrawal of troops from Iraq starting 120 days after enactment, with the goal of completing the process by March 31, 2008.
Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman of Connecticut, an independent who caucuses with the Democrats but votes with Republicans on Iraq, predicted Cochran’s motion would prevail.
“I believe that we’re going to succeed in striking this harmful language from the bill on the Senate floor,” Lieberman said.
All those senators up for re-election in '08 don't seem too happy about the prospect of voting against an end to the war according to the NYT, in an article entitled "GOP Senators Lug the Weight of War Toward 08." Maybe they can get some advice from Joe. Because nobody wants to see our troops home more than he does, right Harry?
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Good morning Jane.
swine
Juck Foe!
*ssh*le.
Hi Jane!
Had your walk yet?
I think it is high time for Connecticuters to start their petition for a referendum to create a recall option for the good folks of Connecticut.
Can we dump Joe,please? Like, forever? Because, my contempt for Joe Lieberman knows no bounds.
McCain-Lieberman plan to ride their “dream-fusion” ticket in 2008 on this stupid war, I reckon.
Question is: Who’s gonna be on top?
mc @
3
And Buck Fush!
Bustednuckles @
7
Already done. Last year. Connecticut primary.
You nailed it, as per usual, that’s the pressure point.
Juck Foe and the McCain he rode in on.
God I can’t stand Joe Liarman. How the people of Con. voted this moran back into office is beyond me. But hey I’m stuck here in Oklahoma with Jim Inhofe GAG!
Oh. I just had a VICIOUS thought.
What if we started a “Draft Joe” movement?
And then used it for, well, used it for our purposes?
Heh.
[edit: oh man, I have to order me a bumpersticker that reads: Lieberman for Dogcatcher…]
Isn’t there a blue suit with NotHadassah’s DNA on it somewhere in his closet?
But wait, don’t you understand, the country doesn’t really want to get out of Iraq. The election in Connecticut proves it.
Put up or shut up, Senators. Harry needs to keep his caucus together and make sure there are 50 votes to keep the timetable in there. Let Dick Cheney break the tie.
Rayne @ 14
he’d dodge it
Frank, then why is everyone else confusing him as a Democrat?
Shit, his voting record alone should kibash that.
I heard a rumor that the more liberal Dems are going to tell Joe to support them on the attorneys or find some other party to caucus with. (The person I heard it from thinks that this will screw the Senate organizing motion too.)
No more Joe – Joe, go!
Yeah, let’s draft Joe now and send him here on April 6th:
steeelthing @ 13
Sucks to be you!
My nephew has just returned from Afghanistan and his morther said in an e-mail that she did not understand the stress she was under till she got the message from him that he was back in Ft. Lewis, WA. I can only guess at the stress of those families who have loved ones in Iraq.
John Casper @ 11
You nailed it, as per usual, that’s the pressure point.
Back to what I said a while ago. They want to obstruct everything… even the end of the war! That way they can duck responsibility and then blame everything on the Dems who have to clean up their mess.
COWARDS!!!!
Will Hagel actually vote correctly this time?
[oh and, enter my Lieber-sneeeear here.]
Bustednuckles @ 19
“…caucuses with the Democrats but votes with Republicans…” was a pretty accurate way of summing it up, I think.
How can McCain and Lieberman be more out of touch than the neocons? Do they really think they are winning any votes for “08?
the don’t want you to think that, because it doesn’t mean this. he won’t stop that, but he has to stop this. we think they want something else, but they won’t say what.
it is going to get more challenging to determine if syntax or sanity prevails in the musings of the soon departed gop’er erected legislatures across this country. we must thank them for destroying themselves utterly. it is kind of them to do this.
we must hope that we can recover the billions they stole from the treasury, and put those responsible for the war crimes in prisons in countries (formerly in what was called the Soviet Union) for debriefing as to what they stole, who they killed, and the bribery and coercion, conspiracy and outright violations of laws. (think we could get answers from congress people with the threat of torture?)
since it is pretty clear congress is enjoying this and will continue to do so until 2008, may as well lower our sights to removing ourselves of the plague in this country. Why? because congress must allow them to self-destruct. that’s decorum. people die, that’s decorum.
funny, what seems good for congress isn’t for anyone else in the world.
AZ Matt @ 23
Did you see this week’s Newsweek? The War in the Words of the Dead
Newsweek
Sorry Frank, wasn’t really aiming that at you.
I am just sick of this polyp in the large intestine of a tapeworm.
P J Evans @ 20
I don’t understand, what is an organizing motion? You don’t mean Dem majority status , thus, committee chairs, do you?
Why is it my party allows Lieberman to caucus with the Dems? Seems somewhat deceptive if not duplicitous (is the view here). There is a faction in my party who I am becoming somewhat impatient with. I think this wing of the Democratic party is called by some, “mainstream”.
McCain was on NPR the other morning and they asked him three questions. I think it was Wait Wait don’t tell me show….anyhow, he got 2 out of three wrong. If you get two out of 3 wrong, they call you “Rat boy” I think. He wasn’t crazy about the nickname before the show closed. wooohooo
From MSNBC.com:
Bustednuckles @ 30
No offense taken. :)
Leave it to the Senator from Hell to characterize a provision to end the war as “harmful language.”
Who exactly is permitting Lieberman to caucus with my party?
Biodun @ 34
Kerry? Gore maybe?
Eureka Springs @ 31
That’s what I understand it to mean. How change-proof it is, I don’t know; I’d have to read the thing and hope that I’m not missing any legal hair-splitting (as opposed to legal hair-pulling).
Oklahoma kiddo @
37
It may be a Catch-22 situation. In order to allow Bernie Sanders to caucus even though he’s elected as an Independent from VT, we get stuck with Joey Lapdogerman
just slightly OT;
From today’s “The Fix” blog in the WaPo;
“Rudy Takes Message to Talk Radio”
“Continuing his courtship of conservatives, former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani is running radio ads on the popular talk radio shows hosted by Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity.”
He might actually find some pliant minds using those mediums… And of course “The Fix” makes no mention,not even an offhanded reference, of Hannity’s or Limbaugh’s chronic, comic unreliability (lies?).
If there was ever a pair of goosey ganders in the radio business, this couple is it. Like a sneering, ignorant Batman and a fat, stoned-deaf Robin, this not-so-dynamic duo continues to bask in their delusions of grandeur and grandiose spin. SpongeBob and Comedy Central have more credibility with our youngest generation, if not for the onset of senility in most of their aging audience, they wouldn’t have their listeners fooled, either.
And most of their malarky is forever, and irrefutably available, in clips on YouTube and TIVO’ed tidbits, gleaned from their daily delusions. Children of the future will giggle and laugh when they watch re-runs of Hannity, he is the quintessential goof in newsman’s clothing.
P J Evans @ 39
pud pulling is more like it!
The desire here is to isolate Lieberman from the Democratic Party. And I think I’ve a grasp on the consequences of such an action.
AZ Matt @ 23
From personal experience, I will tell you it is very difficult. Our oldest is stationed at Baghdad airport now, he’s already been extended by a few weeks so far. He emails his father every few days with tales that are edited for me substantially but still hair-raising. We are not hearing all of the truth … there are constant mortar attacks and incursions onto bases by bomb-wearing insurgents at many locations. Things are not getting better. Joe Lieberman is a traitor to our children and ‘tho he represents my state, he is not my senator any more than the president is my president.
Well it is spring, I guess it’s time for Joe to bloom into a Turdblossom as well.
dakine01 @ 40
It may be a Catch-22 situation. In order to allow Bernie Sanders to caucus even though he’s elected as an Independent from VT, we get stuck with Joey Lapdogerman
Okay, but why do we have to let him head an important committee. Can’t there be consequences for his constant betrayal?
Another wonderful article in the virtual think tank.
Hurrah for the university of Hampsher and Smith
((((Hugs to you and Elizabeth))))
Even MyDD’s Matt Stoller thinks a McCain-Lieberman 2008 “dream” ticket makes sense:
Millineryman @ 45
My sub-peonies are coming up early this year.
Biodun @
8
Actually, I’d kind of like to see a McCain-Lieberman ticket.
I guarantee you that Joe would fuck McCain just like he did Gore, because he couldn’t stand to see McCain win (Joementum will think he shoulda been the prez candidate).
I think the battle going on now is for the ’soul’ of the Democratic Party. I have absolutely no illusions or delusions about on which side I come down on this.
Topanga-lib @ 46
It may be a Catch-22 situation. In order to allow Bernie Sanders to caucus even though he’s elected as an Independent from VT, we get stuck with Joey Lapdogerman
Okay, but why do we have to let him head an important committee. Can’t there be consequences for his constant betrayal?
Good ol’ seniority rights. If he didn’t get his way, he’d move across the aisle. In the rest of the world it’s called blackmail but just bidness as usuall for lapdogerman…
Oklahoma kiddo @ 51
Shit OK, you got more faith than I do, what fucking soul?
Montag @ 50
Bingo. Joe Liarman wouldn’t be able to let go of his vision to become president.
An then there is the DLC and Hillary. I do not view either as being in tune with traditional Democratic sympathies.
Eureka Springs, AR @ 49
My sub-peonies are coming up early this year.
Hopefully the roots are deeper then 3 inches.
Keep moving to the right Joe,the bus should be here any minute now.
Matt musta been smoking something last November (I looked hard for the snark, but didn’t find it):
Is it me?
Would someone else please read the AP’s Mike Glover article quoting Billary.
I cannot for the life of me tell how she stands on:
1 – Withdrawal from Iraq, and;
2 – The current DOJ Scandals..
Has anything really changed? Or, are the American people still so stupid as to look forward to quintessential talk-and-say-nothing about the burning issues candidates?
I just can’t for the life of me understand why someone can defend this sort of mealy-mouth “don’t offend anyone” speaking as a candidate.
Please Billary. What exactly do you stand for?
It seems we already have one too many Liebermans in your neck of the woods.
raven @ 53
Shit OK, you got more faith than I do, what fucking soul?
Well… some in my family and circle of friends do call me a radical. Not in so many words mind you. ;0)
Dakineo1 @ 52
Part of it is senoirity. But I also have a theory that Holy Joe knows where some bodies are buried. And we know he isn’t afraid to stong arm someone if it serves his ego I mean his career.
OT –
The parallels between the Bush and Nixon administrations continue to develop.
The discovery of the use of non-governmental e-mail addresses by White House staff to avoid leaving a paper trail of their communications is strikingly analogous to the discovery that the Nixon White House was taping conversations in the Oval Office.
In both cases (the White House Oval Office recording discovery and the outside email address discovery), Congress and the American people suddenly became aware of an unexpected and game-changing new information source regarding potential crimes within the White House.
Here’s the latest:
link
Eureka Springs, AR @
49
My sub-peonies are coming up early this year.
Your sub-peonies should be blooming from now through 1/20/09
I was sort of wondering if there would ever be a thread where this would be appropriate but here is something I wrote up a few days ago for my own records on the House passed benchmarks. I can’t give a direct link because the Thomas system doesn’t allow one, but the pertinent legislation is:
March 23, 2007 the supplemental HR 1591 passed 218-212.
Part 1: The American side: Conditions on US deployments
Readiness
SEC. 1901. (a) Congress finds that it is Defense Department policy that units should not be deployed for combat unless they are rated `fully mission capable’.
1. The chief of the military department must certify 15 days before any deployment of a unit that it is “fully mission capable” “consistent with the guidelines set forth in the Department of Defense readiness reporting system”
2. If this can not be certified, then the President may waive this requirement on a unit by unit basis but must certify that the unit’s mission is necessary for national security and detail the particular reason why this is so.
Duration of deployment
SEC. 1902. (a) Congress finds that it is Defense Department policy that Army, Army Reserve, and National Guard units should not be deployed for combat beyond 365 days or that Marine Corps and Marine Corps Reserve units should not be deployed for combat beyond 210 days.
This limitation is not meant to reduce troop levels below the pre-escalation ones of January 10, 2007. The President can apply the same waiver as in SEC.1901.
Subsequent Redeployments
SEC. 1903. (a) Congress finds that it is Defense Department policy that Army, Army Reserve, and National Guard units should not be redeployed for combat if the unit has been deployed within the previous 365 consecutive days or that Marine Corps and Marine Corps Reserve units should not be redeployed for combat if the unit has been deployed within the previous 210 days.
Same as above. This limitation is not meant to reduce troop levels below the pre-escalation ones of January 10, 2007. The President can apply the same waiver as in SEC.1901.
Part 2: The Iraqi side: Benchmarks
July 1, 2007
SEC. 1904. (a) The President shall make and transmit to Congress the following determinations, along with reports in classified and unclassified form detailing the basis for each determination, on or before July 1, 2007:
1. Authority to pursue all extremists, including Sunni insurgents and Shiite militias
and substantial progress (as opposed to done deals)
2. Delivering necessary Iraqi Security Forces for Baghdad
3. Protecting such Forces from political interference
4. Intensifying efforts for even-handed security for all Iraqis
5. End making false accusations against members of the Iraqi Security Forces
6. Eliminating militia control of local security
7. Establishing a strong militia disarmament program
8. Ensuring fair and just enforcement of laws;
9. Establishing political, media, economic, and service committees in support of the Baghdad Security Plan; and
10. Eradicating safe havens
And substantial progress in reconciliation initiatives
1. Enactment of a hydrocarbon law
2. Legislation for provincial and local elections
3. Reform of de-Baathification laws
4. Amendment of the Iraqi Constitution
5. Allocation of Iraqi revenues for reconstruction projects
And finally substantial progress toward
1. Reducing sectarian violence.
If the President determines that any of these conditions have not been met, then “the Secretary of Defense shall commence the redeployment of the Armed Forces from Iraq and complete such redeployment within 180 days.” (i.e. by December 28, 2007)
After the conclusion of the 180-day period, the Secretary of Defense may not deploy or maintain members of the Armed Forces in Iraq for any purpose other than the following:
(1) Protecting American diplomatic facilities and American citizens, including members of the U.S. Armed Forces.
(2) Serving in roles consistent with customary diplomatic positions.
(3) Engaging in targeted special actions limited in duration and scope to killing or capturing members of al-Qaeda and other terrorist organizations with global reach.
(4) Training members of the Iraqi Security Forces.
October 1, 2007
The President shall certify to the Congress that the Government of Iraq has enacted (i.e. done deals)
1. A broadly accepted hydrocarbon law
2. A law setting up and scheduling provincial and local elections
3. A law reforming de-Baathification
4. Amendment of the Iraqi Constitution
5. A law to spend $10 billion on reconstruction and begun equitable dispersal of it.
As above, the President must certify by October 1 all this has been done or the 180 day deployment with its exceptions begins. (i.e. by the beginning of the fiscal year 2008 which would mean by March 29, 2008)
Part 3: Other matters:
If the President refuses to make the October certifications 50% of monies for the Iraq Security Forces Fund, some from the Economic Support Fund, and International Narcotics Control and Law Enforcement shall be with held until he does.
SEC. 1905: The President shall appoint a Coordinator for Iraq Assistance with the rank of ambassador to oversee all this and see that it is handled fairly and provide accountability.
SEC. 1906: Notwithstanding any other provision of law, none of the funds in this or any other Act may be used to close Walter Reed Army Medical Center.
Topanga-lib @ 61
Whichever it is, it still includes blackmail…
Get your letter in.
wapo link
A headline at Raw Story:
Hillary will vote for this bill, if for no other reason than the fact that there’s no downside to it for Dems. If it actually meant something (i.e., if the Dems could override the veto), she’d be her usual equivocating self.
Send Joe Lieberman’s young son and Senator Clinton’s young daughter, and the “First Twins” to Iraq. In a ‘grunt’ military uniform. Same with Cheney’s kid.
1,467 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Patriots:
Thanks for focusin’ light on the articulated strategy of the fascist shills in the Senate with regard to the Iraq supplemental… it appears that the fight over mandating the date of withdrawal is gunna force the last wheel offa this administration’s bus. If the Republican senators up for re-election hold together in support of the administration, they will insure that the Democrats will take enough seats to get to 60 votes in the ‘09 session.
The supplemental passed over much opposition from some on the anti-war left, is the beginning of the end both for this administration and, more importantly, for the war. Things are now moving too fast for the fascists to save themselves or their war, the future of our democracy now turns on who gains the Democratic nomination for president…
KEEP THE FAITH, PASS THE AMMUNITION AND KEEP YER EYES ON THE TARGET!!!
webb also said he was against a withdrawal timeline during his speech at the national press club on wednesday (3/22/07). you can watch the streaming webcast at c-span
iirc, he said he was working with hagel to come up with an alternative to the house bill.
i should listen to his speech again to get his actual language, instead of my memory of it.
…
at this time… i just don’t see how a bill with withdrawal in it gets through the senate. anyone see how this can add up?
To add to my #33, Sen. John McCain answered the question correct about drive-through topless joints….
No, no snark:
Speaking of those senators up for reelection in ‘08, I haven’t been able to get through to Warner’s office yet this afternoon. Gonna (politely) give him a piece of my mind about having a deadline for the war in the Senate bill.
(He doesn’t have to know I won’t be voting for him either way.)
Topanga-lib @ 61
Umm, nope, don’t think so. When Lieberman ran as an independent, all that went out the window as far as the Dem caucus was concerned.
I believe that he had to negotiate with (read: hold up) Harry Reid for committee assignments. They gave him chair of government oversight, and he’s being his pissy little self by not wanting to investigate his friends in the administration.
The best thing that could happen is the Dems pick up two or three seats in the Senate in `08. Then the Dems can pick him up by the ears and drop him in the trash can.
I just can’t for the life of me understand why someone can defend this sort of mealy-mouth “don’t offend anyone” speaking as a candidate.
Please Billary. What exactly do you stand for?
Nothing. She’ll sell her soul just like Joe did. I’m seriously looking at Edwards this time around, because my guts won’t let me vote for Hillary.
Sparkles the Iguana @ 66
link
How about those of who think judge Walton should throw the book at scooter for being the lying sack of shit he is writing some letters too.
AP – Investigators probing the friendly fire death in Afghanistan of former football star Pat Tillman found no criminal negligence, a government official said Monday.
“Criminal” is the key word here. Of course that’s not the case. But “negligence”? That’s another matter. This report won’t do anything to pacify Mr. and Mrs. Tillman. Our prez is a criminal. A war criminal.
Sparkles the Iguana @ 66
link
If I recall correctly, you do NOT have to be a friend of Scooter to write to the judge.
In the case of Tom Noe, the judge got a lot of polite, well-reasoned letters stating why they believed he should throw the book at Noe.
Here’s a link to an article on the subject. The judge discusses some of the negative comments in the blue-highlighted text on the left side of the story.
http://www.toledoblade.com/app…../609130428
[snip]
I am familiar with Mr. Noe’s contributions to his community; to his caring for and sharing with others, not just economically, but as a human being in times of distress, illness, and death. And that is reflected in some of these letters. A few of those letters have demanded harsh treatment, and they’ve been given publicity in the press. And as I’ve noted, I understand that because, as I fully recognize, he has risen in the past to positions of respect and power, and he violated the trust of those who placed him in those positions, not directly, but indirectly. And so I’ve taken into consideration the good and the bad of his characteristics in crafting this sentence.
[snip]
Frank Probst @ 26
Isn’t that what spies do –
infiltrate one, but support the other?
angie @ 67
angie – do you recall jim webb’s position on this? he spoke about it during his national press club speech last week. as i recall, he said he would vote AGAINST as withdrawal timeline. he might be one of the two?
am listening to the speech again now… will post actual language if you don’t recall it.
And Blair is saying to Iran, it’s just a matter of days until we bomb you if you don’t give us back our guys.
P J Evans @
20
Yeah, I heard that, too. Seems encouraging, though it’d be nice to apply more pressure on him to come around to the side of sanity on the war, and on energy policy, too, for that matter. Pull him off committees, if need be.
Topanga-lib @ 61
Could be, but I don’t think seniority even enters into it except as a formality. The deal was, he gets his chairmanship, and we get the Senate majority. Seems pretty simple to me, and annoying as it is, I would have taken that deal, too.
montag @
75
Given that the Republics have to defend almost 2/3 of seats up in ‘08, we Dems should pick up more than 2 or 3 I would hope. But Lapdogerman “negotiating” with Reid is still based on his “promises” to caucus with Dems and blackmailing after the election to get his way.
No more spending bills with Iraq war funding should go to the floor. Block them.
That ends the war.
He is not for a timetable, selise.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..44268.html
full article up now at RS
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/….._0326.html
Perhaps Russia and China are not looking forward to a world war started by the United States.
AP – The presidents of Russia and China on Monday called on Iran to fulfill the U.N. Security Council’s demands over its disputed nuclear program — a sign of impatience from Iran’s two closest allies over its continued defiance.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 82
It’s the bush and blair reunion tour…
“Clusterfuck the Middle East”
angie @ 67
Didn’t Mark Pryor (AR), Ben Nelson (NE), and Lieberman (self) vote against the last Senate Iraq resolution?
Who’s Scripting Gonzales?
By Dan Froomkin
Why did Attorney General Alberto Gonzales go before the television cameras two weeks ago and deny that he knew anything about last year’s firings of U.S. attorneys, when — as we just learned from yet another Friday-night document dump — he approved them during an hour-long meeting in November? LINK
raven @
18
Ba-dum DUM!
That dessicated little turd still thinks he’ll be president someday. Or at least should be.
Hugh @ 90
Yup.
angie @ 87
Damn. I’ll make sure to call him, too.
my profound contempt for Lieberman thrives.
Redshift @ 94
Do it!
angie @ 87
thanks angie – i knew that you were following webb more closely than me… (thanks for the heads up last week on his NPC speech).
btw, the bit on the supplemental funding bill (withdrawal, working with hagel) starts at 28 minutes in. says there has to be a diplomatic solution first.
angie @ 67
lemme guess..Pryor and Nelson..gang of two
in fairness to webb, iirc, webb has been pretty consistent about being against a withdrawal timeline.
Lieberman is not worthy of my contempt!
Redshift @ 83
Yes, it is formality. But you wouldn’t know it by the way he acts. Fortunately we can give him the door when we get a few more seats in two years. At least that is my prayer.
Sparkles the Iguana @ 66
I don’t know why I’ve never noticed this before, but when I opened the link above, it suddenly hit me that the little miniature logo in the URL for the Washington Post is not “WP,” which would make sense, and be immediately identifiable, but, rather, is, “W.”
Subliminable fuckers….
and won’t the decideer just use a signing statement to tell congress to insert fastening devices into their rectal regions?
has before, so why all the dust up with these twits talking as though this is an issue? are they protecting him from having to veto it? thus committing political suicide at the same time? what a show. I am only sorry I have be like all of us and pay X billion dollars ever week or two to support such a crappy movie.
Of course, the difference this time around is that the supplemental is a must pass spending bill, not a toothless sense of the Senate.
198 Republican House members voted against funding the troops. As I have said before, this is the story that is not being told. Senators of both parties face a similar dilemma. Vote against the supplemental and they vote against the troops. It’s that simple.
Monies from the supplemental will be needed fairly soon 3-6 weeks so the timeframe is short. Republicans and wishywashy Democrats should have their feet held to the fire on this. No amount of breast beating can trump a fact. And the fact is the vote. They can not and should not be allowed to vote to defund the troops and just walk away from it under some cover of Bush wants it that way.
Does anyone know what happens when an individual is considered in contempt of Congress?
Here’s a bit more background regarding sentencing letters to the judge in the case of Tom Noe:
Even Robert Bennett, chairman of the Ohio Republican Party who once worked closely with Noe on GOP fund-raising and the campaign to re-elect President Bush, weighed in. He sent a letter to Judge Osowik calling for a harsh sentence, accusing Noe of engaging in “self-enriching schemes that defrauded the people of their money and the government of its credibility.”
“As his name has become a symbol of political corruption in Ohio, his punishment must become a symbol of the retribution imposed on those who violate the public trust,” Mr. Bennett wrote.
http://www.toledoblade.com/app…../611210392
Lieberman: It’s that whiny voice (inter alia) that I really can’t stand.
selise @ 98
that’s true– he has been pushing for regional diplomacy and unlike Joe, Nelson and Pryor, etc– he’s been consistently anti Iraq war.
I actually missed the replays of his NPC speech and for some reason cannot play archived stuff @ cspan. weird. ET had good things to say about it.
tbsa @ 105:
Type “contempt of congress” in the search at wiki.
tbsa @ 105
From previous reading here, the first step is a vote of the entire body. If approved, the order for detention is sent to the DoJ for them to carry out. If the DoJ refuses (a likely situation these days), the Speaker/Majority Leader can instruct the Master-of-Arms to seize the individual in contempt.
tbsa @ 105
“Can be a year in jail and a $10,000 fine”
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb…..t_8-6.html
Biodun @ 109
Thanks!
That’s our girl and boy, Bush. Taking The usual leadersip role and the ‘high road’. The neocons must be pleased.
Rice: “I have no intention of taking over peace talks between Israel, PA.”
From Haaretz today.
((((SusanM and Family))))
only b/c wimpy, wobbly, washed up wizened wankers™ wouldn’t fit :)
tbsa @ 105
basically he or she can be jailed (in the Capitol if necessary) until he or she decides to get out of jail by complying with Congress’ request. if a contempt charge is enforced by the Congress, it expires at the end of the term (the 110th Congress ends at the end of 2008).
edit. @14:
Sorry, I wouldn’t even want to send a dog to Guantanamo. With his record I’m afraid my dog, not his of course, would end up there.
oldtree @ 103
Signing statements have no legal standing. They’re obnoxious, but don’t buy into the idea that they’re the magic want the Bushies want them to be. So far the administration has never actually cited them when refusing to follow a law, or defended them when challenged. They clearly know that they would lose if they did; they’re trying to establish a precedent by putting them in the record, but avoiding losing that precedent by actually allowing them to be challenged.
Refusing to follow a law after issuing a signing statement would be exactly the same as refusing to follow a law without doing it, as long as you have a non-rubberstamp Congress, which we now do.
Neil @ 91
Even Navarette is having second thoughts
a little more clarification on Webb
(bold mine)
http://www.dailypress.com/news…..columnists
Biodun @ 107
Ain’t that the truth?
Look up the word Unctuous or Smarmy in the dictionary. Both entries have a picture of Lieberman posted to illustrate the meaning of the words.
I do not believe Hillary Clinton is committed to seriously searching for peace between the Palestinians and the Israelis. And the Senator is not the only Democrat that strikes me as being grossly deficient on this matter.
Hugh @ 104
hugh (or anyone else) – do you have any ideas on how many alternatives may come up for a vote? besides stripping out the withdrawal timeline, webb and hagel are working on their own completely revamped version.
but neither webb or hagel are on the appropriations committee, so i’m not sure how that will work – maybe as an amendment offered on the senate floor (if that will be allowed?).
also, how are votes on the appropriations committee affected by tim johnson’s illness (that seems to make it 14 for both Ds and Rs).
Off topic – Swift Boat Donor will be voted on for Ambassador this week
Sam Fox, of St. Louis, was nominated by George W. Bush in January to be the new U.S. Ambassador to Belgium. It’s not unusual in either party for a guy who pumps a lot of money into political campaigns to be rewarded with such a post — and Fox is certainly a big-time Sugar Daddy for the GOP — but this guy took that standard up a few notches by donating $50,000 to the Swift Boat Liars, who used fabrications and smears to help derail John Kerry’s (D-MA) 2004 presidential campaign.
Bob Geiger’s article and committee members
angie @ 108
i thought it was very good also. will give you a link to an mp3, if you want to give it a listen… let me know.
raven @ 118
Navarette was just whining that how folks were interpreting him was not what he meant.
Re contempt of Congress: in an article last week the WSJ mentioned that a contempt of Congress issue would be referred to the U.S. Attorney in D.C., Jeffrey Taylor, who has served as Counselor to both Gonzales and Ashcroft….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_A._Taylor
Hmm, shouldn’t he recuse himself?
Hugh – Thanks for the usual fabulous summary with text of the bill in its House form.
Nice to see restrictions included for militia. I wonder what wonderful Dems insisted on that little inclusion. The Senate must be laughing at that with a few gallons of white out in hand.
Rice has no intentions of taking over talks between Israel and PA because she doesn’t have a fucking clue where to start!
Useless unfunctional , less than dignitary.
Thanks selise– I will have my tech person check it out tonight or tomorrow and may take you up on your kind offer.
Byrd on Iraq now cspan2– he’s just getting started. Talking about the Constitution and Congress’ powers.
Eureka Springs, AR @
127
Seconded.
ooooh, sign me up for McCain/Lieberman! (not):
o/t
pssst. . .hey kids, Congressman Darrell Issa is over here blogging about Carol Lam – just in case you wanted to express your sentiments :)
Issore
Byrd is attacking boosh’s veto threat and his barbs about politics.
Bustednuckles @
128
Rice is indicative of how this entire admin has continued to fight the “last” wars. Her academic speciality was Russia. It’s why Chimpy and the neo-con artists are still in love with Star Wars. It’s why the neo-con artists went after Iraq in the first place and want to go after Iran. They refuse to accept that the world has changed in the last twenty years and believe that we can impose the American Empire by brute force.
TJ @ 123
Umm, as I recall, Fox and his wife also gave checks to Lieberman’s campaign totalling about $21,000 the day after the election… wonder if Joe’s gonna vote to confirm him?
at TPM:
.
Nancy Pelosi and team have done a great job of reframing the issue. The House vote is now forcing the Senate to appear to be voting affirmatively to extend the war indefinitely. She’s changed the debate and move it to a position much closer to where the public is.
Pelosi for President, by whatever means works fastest. Heh.
1,466 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen oklahoma kiddo and the Firepup Patriots:
You comment on Mrs. Clinton and her dishonesty with regard to Israel and the Palestinians just emphasizes my point for the last 2 years that there is only one person who is capable intellectually, courageously and politically to lead this country from here on out…can you pronounce Al Gore?
Go get ‘em Senator Byrd!! (Go watch a 90 year old man put some a these young pussies on the spot!)
KEEP THE FAITH, PASS THE AMMUNITION AND DON’T SHOOT YER BUDDIES IN THE FOXHOLE WITH YA!!
Breaking…
A Webb staffer has been arrested for carrying a gun in the Senate building, or trying to!? Loaded gun.
Cozumel @ 139
Oh yea, dat’s nuthin
Quick O/T:
And another Reagan Admin jerk gets indicted!
This time it’s David Stockman, Grover Norquist’s spiritual father.
NorskeFlamethrower @ 138
;0)!!!
Phoenix Woman @ 141
May you rot in hell, Stockman. And where’s Voelcker? Dead? (I’m not bitter. Much.)
Latest FaBlog: Fait Divers — Rush vs. Sondheim
Dear Reg,
Just thought I would drop you a line about my good friend Scooter. While I haven’t actually met him, I do not see this as posing any impediment to my writing about him. After all even if we had met, he would probably have forgotten me because of his lamentable memory. All of us have memory problems now and then. I bet you too have occasionally forgotten where you put your car keys or that you couldn’t recall having outed a covert CIA agent. It happens to us all.
Often quite innocently I will tell a little white lie to cover my embarrassment at such a lapse or when I want to start an unjustifed war. I’m sure you have too.
It is times like those that teach us to be humble. I ask that you be humble now and accept that sometimes others know more and better than you do. You are, after all, just a federal judge whereas Scooter was and is a very important man. Unlike you, he had to work long hard hours and deal with many different subjects.
It just goes to show what a wonderful man he was that he would take 2 hours out of his busy, busy schedule to see an old and dear friend over breakfast. But that’s the kind of man he is.
He is a great man worn out defending our country and if you sentence him, then the terrorists win. Is that really what you want, Reg, the terrorists to win?
I didn’t think so. Give me a call sometime. We can have lunch at my country club. Not to worry they let your people in, although it’s still ixnay on the membership.
Signed
Rich G. Oper
Also OT, but it appears that Waxman has the RNC email server in his sights. He’s ordered that no emails be destroyed…
Capitol Police: Webb Aide Arrested With Handgun
http://www.nbc4.com/politics/1…..p;psp=news
OT – Pentagon’s presser re: Pat Tillman death on now… on MSNBC and CNN
–no criminal negligence in death of Tillman
punaise @ 136
woo hoo. it’s started!
punaise @ 136
Darn, there goes the “no underlying crime” defense.
Another Monica. Karma?
retirin’ in five @ 150
I hope she wears a blue dress to
testifyobfuscate in.Phoenix Woman @ 141
Oh my god.
Stockman, eh?
Great. Why in the hell would anyone of such stature commit fraud?
No need to answer. They are criminals.
And they are stupid.
“Ah did not have email with that woman!”
Rayne @ 154
…cleaning coffee off my screen…
Rayne @ 154
Uh, it depends on what the definion of e-mail is is is….
(bold mine)
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/…..p;refer=us
Oh, by the way…Waxman’s office heard me, emailed me back.
;-)
Yeah, we’ll see who didn’t email the chick in the blue dress now…
Rayne @ 154
Ah, well, maybe it’s time for a few revelations of the electronic epistolary relations variety….
CNN and MSNBC still fixated on Anna Nicole. Will they just let that poor woman rest in peace?
Rayne @ 154
Another denial of service issue.
Rayne @ 158
good on you, Rayne. way to be persistent. now let’s just hope some truly talented geeks can get a hold of that server (and probably several others – can you Yahoo?)
angie @ 157
Now isn’t that interesting?
Monica done lawyered up!!
And a specialist in white collar crime, too. How nice!!
TiredFed @ 160
ah. MSNBC has it as breaking news now. no linky yet.
selise #122,
I’m not sure exactly where the Senate bill is right now. In some ways it doesn’t matter since the supplemental will eventually end up in conference committee and it is there that the final text should be hammered out. Then it comes down to vote for the President or vote for the troops.
TiredFed @ 160
Depending on your spiritual orientation it really doesn’t matter to her.
MSNBC has it up. Clueless New Network still clueless. no, that’s not a blonde joke.
It’s difficult to to choose which raises my ire more. Nixon, Reagan or Bush. I’m leaning toward Bush.
TiredFed @ 162
Now, what I want to know, besides all the other crap we suspect, if they find those servers, turn `em upside down and give him a good shake, do a bunch of emails between Lieberman’s campaign and the RNC fall out?
Monica pleading 5th per CNN won’t testify.
raven @ 165
so true. I sure would like a little rest from it. sick and … you know the rest.
CNN—-
Monica Goodling will plead the 5th before Congress
from the AP story via TPM:
http://tpmmuckraker.com/
Oklahoma kiddo @ 168
It’s an easy call for me. Not even close.
Hugh @ 165
listening to c-span now…. it sounds as though the supplemental bill has already been through the senate appropriations committee and is now replaced with an alternative version.
does anyone know what’s in the replacement version? is the timed withdrawal still in it? i’m having trouble following along today….
… my expectation has been that conference committee is where the action will be… but this is so very important, i am trying to follow along (at least a little bit – thanks for your summary above).
CNN = Certified Necrophilia Network
Starring ANS 24/7
TiredFed @ 167
Funny. Drudge doesn’t have it. However, Webb’s aide with the pistol is in bright red text. (now washing eyeballs)
And there are members of my party, the Dems, I dislike intensely too. What I get from the Republicans I expect. But when I am on the receiving end of my own party’s subterfuge, I become somewhat irritated and agitated.
TiredFed @ 162
I’m pretty sure that a number of truly talented geeks have been snapping pics of that RNC server for quite a while.
In fact, I’m positive of this.
And you can bet if white hat hacker-types have been, black hats and enemy spies have gone much, much further.
I think this might just end up doing the job for our Patrick Fitzgerald. Any group of people who are this sloppy about many different topics that should be internal-government only would have absolutely no compunction about deliberately outing a covert agent. And I can’t wait to see what kinds of evidence will eventually be produced that will not have ever gone in front of a grand jury…
That in brief is the story of this whole Administration: If they told the truth, they would be in jail.
angie @
173
Can’t she be held in contempt – she works for Justice not the White House doesn’t she?
Wolf: 5th raises the stakes…yee haw.
Can we please have an orange jumpsuit perp walk now for Bush and Chee-knee and Rove and Monica [what irony that name!]and Fisher and Sampson and the rest of the BushCo crime family a la the cable tv family?
Ms. Monica has every right to assert 5th Amend. privilege, but this sure makes it harder for the WH to claim that Admin officials are willing to answer any/all questions if only in private — “except when it might incriminate them, in which case . . .” Wouldn’t want Snow’s job at the moment.
Howie Kurtz thinks press have been picking on Snow, but he ain’t seen nothin’ yet. Sharks/blood/water.
NH
New Hamsher
They Just Don’t Get It
scarecrow @ 184
I’m sure the timing is Snow’s silver lining right now.
OT – Today’s Cafferty File questions:
4 p.m.: What does it mean if Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel is using the word “impeachment” when it comes to President Bush?
5 p.m.: Alberto Gonzales is scheduled to testify before Congress April 17. Will he last that long as Attorney General?
7 p.m.: How should Britain go about trying to win the release of its captured sailors and marines from Iran?
respond here
Pleading the fifth, tells me invariably, someone has something to legally hide, and would rather not go to jail.
scarecrow @ 184
Makes me wonder what that growth is in his lower abdomen. Wouldn’t be Cheney’s hand, would it?
At any rate, mighty convenient time to be medically indisposed….
newspaperbrat @ 181
Only if she refused to show. What she will do is show and invoke the 5th as is her Constitutional right. However if she were granted some degree of immunity then as far as that immunity applies she would have to testify. And then if she didn’t she could be held in contempt as well.
newspaperbrat @ 181
She cannot be made to incriminate herself, it’s a Constitutionally protected right (as in the Fifth Amendment).
However, somebody at this level of the foodchain who is already declaring via legal representation that they intend to take the 5th is a likely opportunity for a immunity deal.
Oh. Baby.
woohoo – c-span is reporting that alternative senate version of supplemental iraq funding bill DOES include timeline for withdrawal.
.Eureka Springs, AR @ 176
Heh,Heh! Will never think of CNN differently. Thanks for making me laugh out loud Eureka Springs on an otherwise cold and cloudy afternoon.
And at end of every week I think they can’t possible have another week worse than this — and it’s only Monday.
egregious @ 185
That means a new thread, folks.
Rayne @ 191
She cannot be made to incriminate herself, it’s a Constitutionally protected right (as in the Fifth Amendment).
However, somebody at this level of the foodchain who is already declaring via legal representation that they intend to take the 5th is a likely opportunity for a immunity deal.
Oh. Baby.
Woo Hoo – thanks Rayne – and thanks too to Hugh at 190.
Rayne @ 190
She cannot be made to incriminate herself, it’s a Constitutionally protected right (as in the Fifth Amendment).
However, somebody at this level of the foodchain who is already declaring via legal representation that they intend to take the 5th is a likely opportunity for a immunity deal.
Oh. Baby.
hahaha. rubs hands together. smile getting wider.
newspaperbrat @ 193
lol If my brain didn’t come up with that one quickly a brick would have surely been launched at the tele…) [It would fit on a T-shirt *s*]
scarecrow @ 193
Mondays are the new Fridays. The work week starts on Friday night, when we get the docudumps. We work all weekend, then we party starting Monday night! dang. I gotta retire soon. my day job is killing me.
Rayne @ 179
I’m pretty sure that a number of truly talented geeks have been snapping pics of that RNC server for quite a while.
In fact, I’m positive of this.
And you can bet if white hat hacker-types have been, black hats and enemy spies have gone much, much further.
I think this might just end up doing the job for our Patrick Fitzgerald. Any group of people who are this sloppy about many different topics that should be internal-government only would have absolutely no compunction about deliberately outing a covert agent. And I can’t wait to see what kinds of evidence will eventually be produced that will not have ever gone in front of a grand jury…
I think these email servers will be a gold mine! Let’s hope somebody has preserved the data.
Rayne @ 158
Rayne,
I’m a little behind on my reading. Can you give us a quick summary of what you sent and how they responded?
Thanks
Eureka Springs, AR @ 176
I have seen it used thusly — CNN = Certainly Not News.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 37
Answer: Harry Reid.