
AP Photo by Pablo Alberto Monsivais
No sooner had House and Senate Judiciary Committees authorized their chairmen to issue subpoenas to White House officials to compel their public sworn testimony over the forced resignations of US attorneys than Tony Snow made the rounds Thursday playing the fair minded victim against reporters uncivil enough to ask why Administration officials should not testify openly under oath.
Tony’s talking points were: “show trial,” “Perry Mason moment,” “partisan grandstanding,” and “fishing expeditions.” The Democrats can get all the information they need, he insisted, if only they accept closed sessions, limited attendees, no oaths or recordings, limited topics and a promise not to call the aides again. That would be fair, I suppose, if White House officials were above the law. When Tony asked a reporter whether she wanted the truth or sworn testimony, the reporter asked, “why not both?”
C&L posted Tony’s exchange with CBS’ Harry Smith. Watch Tony dodge when Smith asks why, when he has a transcipt of Snow’s last presser, the Congress is not entitled to a transcript of White House aides’ testimony to Congress. But is anyone buying this?
I think Americans recognize stonewalling and sense the White House is hiding something, like more Abramoff scandals. Why shouldn’t Karl Rove testify in public when the Administration worked so hard to give his protege a USA slot held by Bud Cummings? The more Snow tries to defend their stonewalling, the more they’ll lose public support and convince the public they’re covering up something pretty awful.
On Countdown last night, John Dean concluded that since the WH position is indefensible, it must be only an opening offer. Fred Fielding has simply staked out an extreme position from which he can back down. Dean recalls Fielding made similar proposals about Nixon’s aides during the Watergate hearings.
Republicans argue that if Conyers and Leahy will just talk to Fielding, they can get the information and avoid a confrontation. As expected, the ever untrustworthy Arlen Specter offered his own compromise, but the WH has no reason to negotiate with the powerless Specter; when a reporter asked Tony Snow whether the WH would accept Specter’s compromise, Snow laughed and said “no.” Does Specter ever tire of looking like a naive lapdog?
Leahy knows that the WH has staked out an indefensible position, and the longer they maintain it, the worse they look. They’re offering “nothing, nothing, nothing,” Leahy declared. He seems quite happy to let the WH sit there and look like they’re covering up, while his Committee continues its investigation and lays the foundation for Rove by grilling Alberto Gonzales and other DoJ officials in the coming weeks.
By not issuing the subpoenas now, the Democratic Chairs are keeping their options open and can define the scope of the subpoenas once they’ve built a stronger record. That leaves the WH and Snow just twisting in the wind as the Committees fill in the 18-day gap.
Jane’s and Christy’s posts yesterday quoted from the WaPo article in which DoJ political operatives forced the assistant US Attorney in the anti-tobacco suits to scale back the prosecution, limit expert testimony, reduce damage requests and read a closing argument the political operatives wrote. That interference confirms Paul Krugman’s warning (Times Select): the scandal isn’t just the eight who were forced out but also the 85 who are still there and keeping quiet, or others who resigned earlier in disgust, but never spoke out. The money quote came from the 22-year former US prosecutor, Sharon Eubanks:
Eubanks said Congress should not limit its investigation to the dismissal of the U.S. attorneys.
“Political interference is happening at Justice across the department,” she said. “When decisions are made now in the Bush attorney general’s office, politics is the primary consideration. . . . The rule of law goes out the window.”
That quote echoes statements from other former prosecutors disgusted by what this Administration has done to the rule of law and the Department of Justice. Some of the eight USAs have been shown to be highly regarded and are speaking out to defend their reputations. In the meantime, the DoJ continues to make up stories about why these eight, but not others, were forced out.
We can expect more revelations. And I’d be surprised if we’ve heard the worst of the disrespect for law and obstruction of justice that became the tradecraft of too many in the Justice Department under George Bush and his pliant Attorney General.
UPDATE: Waxman letter now seeking information from DoJ on the tobacco case. (h/t emptywheel)
Related posts:
- McCain, Lieberman Schooled on Rule of Law by Kris, Johnson
- Jawad, Ghailani Cases Challenge US Torture Under Rule of Law
- Walid bin Attash to be Denied Day in Court Because al-Nashiri Was Tortured?
- OLC: Action, Finally? The Rule of Law Needs Your Calls
- CIA Torture Report Remains Under Wraps; Has Rule of Law Resurfaced?





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JUSTICE!
Good morning, Scarecrow.
ah, I love the smell of a zero in the morning!
all pretty astonishing, isn’t Scarecrow? you’d think we’d be used to it by now.
Good morning, FDL!
Chuckie Krauthammer is suggesting that Abu Gonzales ought to go, apparently for not competently covering up obstruction.
*Knew* this would get epu’d -
Here’s a linky for the new Pew poll on dropping self-id’ed thugs::
latimes link
Good interview w/Jerry Kammer re. his new book on Duke Dunningham on at C-Span 1.
I know it is unChristian, but I really hate these motherfuckers.
Good morning egregious, everyone. I see Pelosi may have the votes in the House to pass the supplemental funding bill with deadlines, conditions, etc. The vote expected today.
Anyone know the CSPAN schedule?
OldCoastie @ 3
What amazes me is they keep behaving the same way and looking like crooks, yet don’t even try to change their image. Why would you keep a Tony Snow as your point person? He must be the least credible Press Secretary ever.
Gates apparently wants to close Gitmo, but junya, shooter and gonzo won’t let him.
(from the NY Times)
Scotty McClellan wasn’t exactly credible either.
The 18-day gap:
I thought it was just a “lull.” Or an 18-day Thanksgiving vacation where, you know, nobody used their blackberry for email.
That’s a nice vacation policy, maybe I would like to work for the government.
Washington Journal -
From the call-in wingers……..all Sandy Berger, all the time. Geeeeeeez……I wish these people would get a new record; the ol’ one’s gettin’ awful scratched. Also, sounds like the new Jerry Kammer book on duke cunningham might be interesting.
ifthethunderdontgetya @
4
Another example of “there’s no underlying crime,” to describe the most lawless regime in our lifetimes.
Good morning, Scarecrow -
In your post, did you mean to say “That would be fair, I suppose, if White House officials were not above the law”?
18 day lull? DiFi noted yesterday during the hearing that there may still be some missing emails just because, oh – HERS WASN’T IN THERE.
ahem.
An update on Steve Gilliard, and the news isn’t good. Keep those thoughts and prayers coming!
newsblog link
Some of the eight USAs have been shown to be highly regarded and are speaking out to defend their reputations. In the meantime, the DoJ continues to make up stories about why these eight, but not others, were forced out.
ChimpCo must feel its treading water (& buying time for what?!?). The excuses that I read/heard for firing the attornies look so damn lame in light of, for ex. Lam’s investigations, I can’t believe anyone in the public who is following is swallowing. ChimpCo must know that, or non?
Re: 18 Day Gap, check out this must read from CREW. It coincided with a Bush trip overseas:
from Wapo this a.m. (barely):
Administration worked months to appoint Rove aide in Arkansas
msnbc link
That ought to piss Hillary off. Who do you suppose they were gonna go after?
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 14
Skirting normal procedures would be fair if they were above the law — /snark
Morning Scarecrow.
Question for anybody out there cause I am WAY behind on my threads, did the video of the Fitz presser yesterday (the one where he and AUSA Pat Collins talk about how the USAO NDIL will be able to carry on after Fitz is gone)
ever turn up on the net?
Anybody got a linky? I know Sparkles the Iguana couln’t figure out how to link yesterday, has someone else succeeded?
I am wondering if one of the reasons it was so important for Rove to maintain his security clearance was so that he could muck around deep in the bowels of the DOJ a la J Edgar?
And if this isn’t really all about a Sept surprise in 2008?
Arkansas….hmmm.
I love it that DiFi can say all the e-mails weren’t released because hers wasn’t. Gotcha!
OldCoastie @
10
I wasn’t aware that credibility was even in the job description. I thought the key one was being brave enough to stand up in front of everyone and cover for the lyin’ sacks o’ shit.
I’m guessing what the 85 remaining atty’s went along with will become a major scandal.
This admin. does an excellent job picking lackeys.
lhp – I was home sick yesterday and all over the tubes – didn’t see the Fitz presser anywhere (doesn’t mean it’s not there, but I was in all the usual places and it didn’t pop up)
OldCoastie @ 15
It occurred to me after hearing this that perhaps this is a tack every member of Congress needs to take going forward: send an email to the White House and the DOJ on key topics on a regular basis.
And then when document product starts, watch to see if they come back.
I can’t believe we let these morons in the White House use their puppets in Congress to legislate on any communications technology; they really are idiots.
I thought the President was REQUIRED to make the decision to fire USA’s. If he didn’t make the decision, it was illegal.
Scarecrow -
Does Specter ever tire of looking like a naive lapdog?
You’re cutting him a lot more slack than I do, darlin’. Think he lost his brains when he lost his hair. ;-(
***************************
OldCoastie -
Finally saw the rerun of that DiFi tidbit and it was choice.
***************************
Pach -
Don’t know whether it’s true or not but heard someone questioning yesterday why, during this period of time, bush signed some other bill (arcane) but not this one.
Woodhall Hollow @ 22
Just like Edwards should stay in for the good of the nation, Hillary really should drop out of the primary for the good of the nation, so we Dems don’t have to spend all our time defending against made-up Starr like charges, and can concentrate on fixing the country.
Btw, Waxman is on the tobacco case:
seeing the Edwards yesterday made me very wistful for intelligence, courage, commitment… we could do a lot worse than those 2….
Right now I think that the Dems are playing it just right. Authorize the subpoenas, then sit on them while you call Sampson next week (and don’t let him put off the testimony with this whole ‘gee there’s a lot of notes here’ crap. He’s a lawyer for Chrissakes. We work under tighter deadlines than one week plus, all the time). Use the break to go over what you have with a fine toothed comb and get your staff working on following leads. Then have Abu (and Sampson again, if he pleads bad memory or unfamiliarity from his first session) and whatever other DoJ officials you need. Get the info out to the public and THEN, if there’s no compromise, issue the subpoenas.
The only thing I would advise is that you should schedule these hearings so that they go at least 3 days a week, after the break. You can’t get public interest going with one-day-a week hearings.
egregious @ 11
hahaha. no you wouldn’t. you have enough to deal with when you go to Russia. 18-day “vacations” dont exist here. believe me. and there will be crackmail all over the place. guess when the busiest time of year is for most Feds involved in budget issues? You guessed it: Thanksgiving weekend. No one was on “vacation” for 18 days!
NPR this morning ran the attorney story and claimed that the only people caring about this are a few bloggers. Were they saying “and there’s no reason we didn’t push this story earlier since it’s really just a fringe thing”? I get more and more frustrated with them.
The Bush Administration is made up of “graduates” of Watergate and Iran-Contra. Make no mistake they’ve learned from their past criminal actions. They would like to have the outcome of the battle between Congress and the Executive played out in the court of public opinion. That’s why Snow is making the talk show circuit spinning the Party line, i.e. “fishing expedition”, “show trials”, “partisan grandstanding” et al.. They may be criminals but they are clever and devious. Don’t think for a minute they haven’t consulted Frank Luntz and his focus group work. It’s important that the Republican frame be countered with a frame that captures the attention and sense of justice in the minds of the American public. It’s time to contact MSM media outlets, Congressional Representatives, Democratic Party to demand accountability.
There cannot be any mud that hasn’t already been slung regarding Senator Clinton and her spouse. My guess is it is being manufactured and Griffith is the plant manager. By the way, Cummins says he is still a Republic.
OldCoastie @ 15
OK. everyone go back and check their Sent Mail for anything you sent to DOJ during the Thanksgiving vacation. You know, from November 1 thru December 31. Ready? Set? Go.
Dean recalls Fielding made similar proposals about Nixon’s aides during the Watergate hearings.
Ah. The nostalgic juices start to flow.
Modified Limited Hangout – The Sequel.
The hearings sould be public and have a transcript so ordinary citizens–who pay the salaries of these clowns–can know what’s going on.
I want to see it myself. I don’t want my info sifted thru Specter.
Link didn’t work. Was it for today’s LATimes?
Waccamaw @
5
sorry to be off topic but Bush/Cheney might have found a desired distraction from their current problems…
“Two boats, each with a crew of six to eight multinational forces, were searching Iraqi and Iranian boats Friday morning in Ras al-Beesha area in the northern entrance of the Arab Gulf, but big Iranian boats came and took the two boats with their crews to the Iranian waters.”
Im sure Cheney will somehow find at least 1 American soldier within this ‘multinational’crew to have his Gulf of Tonkin moment!
looseheadprop @ 21
oh, i sure hope so. sounded quite snarky. and we need a Fitz fix!
drinksforall – I heard that this morning and while I’m worried for the crew, I thought, “gee – what would we do if a bunch of Iranians were in our coastal waters boarding boats?”
Bluetoe @ 36
How’s this for a talking point?
“Watergate, Watergate, Watergate” It says everything, up to and including impeachment.
Tony Snowjob and Ari Fleischer both trained at the Ron Ziegler school for press secretaries. Scott McClellan not so much as you could tell he was uncomfortable with the lies. But Tony and Ari absolutely did:
“The previous statement is no longer operative”
They learned well.
egregious @ 28
this has not been clarified. Prez could have delegated authority to others. Statute grants him authority to hire/fire USAs.
Bluetoe @ 36
Hmmm, it shouldn’t be too hard to come up with a frame. Even people who don’t don a tinfoil hat should be suspecting the worse kind of abuse of our justice system nationwide for political gain.
I like your logic.
drinksforall @ 42
ooops..Forgot the linky:
washingtonpost link
egregious @ 28
That’s why Chimpy had the 5:45 pm presser the other day, where he got all Mr. Pissypants on us.
He used the word “resignations” four times in the course of the presser, so as to put up a firewall between himself and the exited USA’s.
looseheadprop — um, does this make him a material witness??
OldCoastie @ 26
Thanks. Sparkles said s/he was watching it on the Chicago ABC affilaite. I found a regular news story over there, but not the full presser anf the part I am interested in was not included in teh story.
Bummer
emptywheel @ 31
wow. Big Hank is gonna need a LOT of help with that pile. Get ready for a busy Easter weekend folks. Let’s hope we find lotsa eggs!
After the present inmates in Guantanamo are released, the prison should be used to temporarily house Bush and his lackeys while they are awaiting travel to The Hague.
OldCoastie @ 32
very hard to do better.
Politico just got creamed on Washington Journal……..unfortunately, the smell of that fauxpas is going to attach itself to *all* blogs, good and bad. Sounds like a new winger talking point to me. ;-(
————–
rxbusa -
Sorry. Please check “tale” of last thread; that one apparently worked for someone else. I’m on dial-up so you can probably get back to it quicker than I. Yes, LAT.
the captured sailors seem to be British (least that’s what I’m hearing on my local news)
yet they are making headway with their talking points…though “their position is indefenseable” there are actaully people defending it.
here’s the problem too…that the people that defend the whitehouses position get more media attention then the people that find it bizzarre
just as gonzales is doing a “publicity tour” of some kind the democrats has to do a “reality tour” in response.
and they have to do it right, they have to go straight to the jugualr, none of that “this is why they’re wrong” stuff, they have to go straight to;
“they are lying and they want to hide their lies, they are obstructing justice and they are impeding congress from performing their sworn obligation”
we can’t give their position any play to defend, we need to just attack their position
emptywheel @ 31
It’s a nice start. He left out all contacts between political aapointees ant DOJ and lawyers and/or lobbyist for big Tobacco.
Remember, Ted wells is publicaly on record as saying that when he does not like the answer he is getting from the AUSA who is prosecuting a case, he never hesitates to go over that perosn’s head.
BIG HANK, you got to look at what how Big Tobaccoa was working their side of the street
emptywheel @ 31
Oh, that’s nice. I’ve put that in an update. Thanks, emptywheel.
RealWorld at 35 — I heard that story on NPR as I was taking The Peanut over to preschool this morning, and that wasn’t the impression that I took from it. The political commentator that was talking about it was saying it, I thought, as a “we in the media and the Beltway dropped the ball, and this is only moving forward because bloggers actually cared about this issue and the Constitution” sort of perspective. I thought it was a cautionary sort of statement toward the media, who really did drop the ball on the story until they were all pushed on it.
Good Morning
I just read John Deans article at Find Law. His last sentence is quite revealing.
“In short, all those who have wanted to see Karl Rove in jail may get their wish, for he will not cave in, either — and may well be prosecuted for contempt, as Gorsuch was not. Bush’s greatest problem here, however, is Harriett Miers. It is dubious he can exert any privilege over a former White House Counsel; I doubt she is ready to go to prison for him; and all who know her say if she is under oath, she will not lie. That could be a problem.”
Is this going to be a fight for the life of our nation?
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20070323.html
Story Time!
The teachers were used to settling playground disputes on their own. But suddenly the principal, without even gathering any information from the teachers, started to intervene. Apparently, some parents wanted their kids to never get punished – no matter what they did! And they were even asking that the good kids should get punished, instead of their kids!
The teachers who stood up to the principal, for their right to make decisions in their classrooms and for the right of fairness in handing play-ground disputes, were told they were being disloyal to the principal. And the teachers who went along with rewarding the bad kids and punishing the good kids, they got promotions and pay raises and extra time for themselves during school.
OldCoastie @
10
Ari was slicker, but just as much of a lying scumbag.
Waccamaw @ 56
Got it! Thanks! Here it is again:
latimes link
“Remember, Ted wells is publicaly on record as saying that when he does not like the answer he is getting from the AUSA who is prosecuting a case, he never hesitates to go over that perosn’s head.”
…Or, to just hire the AUSA.
TiredFed @ 47
I think Mary4 had this covered in her comments some time last week or so…she specifically cited Humphrey’s Executive. Even if delegated, the authority to hire/fire cannot be abused.
OT – CNN reporting Iraqi Deputy PM, Salam Zubaie, injured in suicide bombing… is in surgery now, not sure if he will survive… in “unstable” condition.
-also – 15 British sailors from HMS Cornwall ’siezed’ by Iranian Navy…
Old Coastie @ 32, ditto. I was greatly impressed with Gore’s conduct before the House and Senate about global warming but also saddened to realize what we had lost when we lost him. The comparison between Gore and Bush is painful.
snowbird42 @ 62
Nice quote. It puts me in a good mood to imagine Miss Piggy being froggmarched. A light at the end of the tunnel so to speak.
OldCoastie @ 57
“Two boats, each with a crew of six to eight multinational forces….”
Not to be argumentative but it sounds like a variety of countries involved in the picked up crews.
snowbird42 @ 61
Harriet Miers as the new John Dean? Who would know better? Could someone who knows John ask him for a definitive answer on whether or not Rove can be impeached?
TiredFed @
19
Hotflash recommended a wiki yesterday. I think that was a great idea. I’d like a ready reference that has a profile of the outgoing and incoming USAttorneys, that captures the chronology in this article. Is there a firepup friendly wiki around? Should we start a topic in DKospedia?
Christy Hardin Smith @
61
Well, that’s a horse of a different color. Good morning Christy.
Breaking, CNN -
15 Brit marines seized by Iran’s navy in Persian Gulf……O SHIT!
OldCoastie @ 15
Did you mean the one in which she was purported to have complained about the lack of prosecution of immigration cases in Carol Lam’s district? That’s what I had thrown at me when I called Trent Frank’s office to voice my support of the subpoenas. That and how Clinton’s administration had 67 (?) aides charged and found guilty, but this administration has had one…blah, blah, blah. I’m not in Difi’s district, obviously, but if I were, I’d have to think twice and possibly hold my nose to vote for her, if the letter that I heard was correct. Anybody got a viable explanation or rationalization?
TiredFed @ 43
TIredFEd
I am having caniption fits over that. People DO NOT talk about how their workplace will be when they are gone, unless they are leaving.
We already know that depite being smack in the middle of some really comlex sounding public corruption investigation, Patrick Collins recently announced that he is leaving to go to Perkins Coie.
I was really taken aback by that b/c it is unusal to put that much sweat equity into an investigation and then not see it through.
Now, a couple weeks later, Collins and Fiztgerald are talking about what USAO NDIL will be like after Fitz is gone?
Inquiring minds want to know:
Is Patrick Fitzgerld being purged?
I would not want to be Arlen Specter this morning. That little end-around he tried to pull on Leahy will not go unpunished.
I’ve met Sen Leahy on a few occasions – my father went to St. Michael’s College with him – and he is not the kind of person you want to anger. Great guy, but don’t EVER cross him.
ePluribus Media has “document dump” threads in their Community portion that FDL folks can use, too. http://scoop.epluribusmedia.org
edit: be sure to use the one set up for the specific USA in question — Cummins, in this case.
it will be interesting to see what Pelosi’s supplemental bill kicks loose. Arguments for and against will go on, but I think Bush vetoing it is going to make for a real push comes to shove situation. He is so weakened right now.
I want to see her get the bill thru just to see what happens next.
Waccamaw @ 75
That puts it more in the British corner for negotiation doesn’t it?
lhp – my impression about the presser was that Fitz and his buddy were kidding around about his poor evaluation from DOJ.
Here is the link:
latimes link
One of many interesting quotes:
absolutely cannot be abused. however, the question of authority is important, as it points to whether the Prez is directly accountable and whether forced resignations were legal (if Prez is the only one with hire/fire authority, he is in big trouble now).
Thinking along marketing lines, I think we need a catchy name. I propose Eightgate. It’s short, memorable, and to the point. :D
looseheadprop @ 59
Especially now that–per Libby trial, we know the Lobbyists are one of their means of laundering this stuff.
I’ll let Hank know if he asks…
8-)
Their mistake was resigning. The President didn’t fire them, they resigned, remember?
You all is barking up the wrong tree.
The President may have the power to fire them,but he didn’t use it. See?
What is relevant to a criminal prosecution for obstruction of justice is whether they were forced to resign under threats.
look for the threats. Do not be distracted by the bight shiny object of presedential perogative, because THAY WERE NOT FIRED.
We gotta focus.
Oh, and anybody else who gets “asked” to resign, please don’t be a patsy. Don’t give the WH cover by announcing what a great new opportunity you are going off to pursue.
Do you duty for the rule of law. Make him fire you.
In broad daylaght.
Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
You owe it to the rule of law.
Re a wiki — Cujo395’s friend Mash has put up[ a wiki at his/her site cor the Docudump called Gonzopedia.
There is a section called Related Scandals which could be used, a couple are already there. And it is set up with a lot of stuff already that c/b useful, re bios of the Main Actors — I just *know* we will see those names over and over.
It’s been around long enough that if you lose the link just google Gonzopedia.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 61
Was it Ari? He was one of the good guys from the Libby trial.
mui -
Think that would stop cheney? Besides, the Brits are basically the only part of the “willing” left there besides the US…….what a perfect excuse. We’re “just going to the aid of our friends.”
OldCoastie @ 79
you know, I kinda hope he does veto (what would that be, his 2nd ever?). then Nancy can get back to reality and fund only thru the end of the year.
Somewhat O/T (but related in that Fitz was (is?) on the chopping block( –
Emptywheel dissects Novak’s lies over at DKos (and The Next Hurrah).
I think here’s what needs to be done if they defy subpeona and they don’t want to arrest these fools
they need to try thes clowns in abtentia
BUT
they need to go STRAIGHT to impeachment, they CANNOT let the supreme court decide, the supreme court is DEFINATELY in their pocket and THEY WANT a supreme court test
THIS UNITARY PRESIDENCY HAS GOT TO STOP IMMEDIATELY
Didn’t Marcy say that one of the expurgated names had 10 letters. F I T Z G E R A L D
perhaps the person we should be looking at for our next president is Mr. Fitzgerald.
looseheadprop @ 87
Forced to resign, fired, shmired, whatever. In the court of public opinion (of which I feel I represent to some degree, not being of a legal mind) it’s the same ol’. Nice try, Chimpy!
The attorneys should show up at their old jobs. “Sorry–thought I was fired, but I guess i wasn’t. My bad. Please get out of my chair, asshole.”
More story telling:
Once there was a parent who ran the household like a dictator. Some children had to live in the basement and never come out. No one knew why. And no one dared to ask. Other children, who lived upstairs, were worried – but feared they’d be put in the basement if they complained.
Why didn’t the authorities do anything to rescue the children in the basement? Well, the father was a big bush contributor and had the justice system in his pocket.
I’m partial to the Gonzalez Eight, but I’m kinda old. Reminds me of all “gangs” in the 60s, like the Catonsville Nine.
TiredFed – I’m 99.9% sure he will veto it… what happens after that? we shall see…
Waccamaw @ 90
The why is LapDog losing it so bad, that British troops have to withdraw? I have a feeling that Cheney *must* feel the chill.
looseheadprop @ 86
As a former hiring manager, I can tell you that what I’ve already seen in the document dump does not in any way suggest these people willingly resigned.
They were asked to resign — which is the same as firing. IANAL, but there should be freighter-loads of precedent covering similar cases where employees have been asked to resign.
Being asked to resign means your status as employee is no longer desired and you’re fired.
Granted, every one of these folks should have clearly stated in writing that they would leave their post as requested; I still hope that testimony in front of Congress will compel them to say they were asked to leave.
Mr. Pissypants and his peeps know he’s in trouble, or they would not have bothered with that presser to innoculate them against this matter.
Forgive me if I haven’t found this amid all the crap flying out of Tony Snow’s mouth, but what exactly is their objection to speak under oath?
*Taking an oath too demeaning to honest guys like them?
*They always tell the truth, so what’s the diff?
*They could be prosecuted for perjury w/o oath
*No Big Deal, so why bother. Give Sgt. at Arms or whoever administers oath a break?
Let’s just attack each of the elements & ask what their objection is to each.
Rayne @ 102
That’s why they issued those resignation guidelines to all the USAs–complete with model resignation letters.
perris @ 91
you got it. go straight to impeachment. do not pass go. do not collect $200. SC can’t intervene. Gotta have 65 or 66 Senators for conviction, but in the meantime, no more Imperial Presidency.
Anyone having the time, might want to read the final report on Iran/Contra at
fas link
“Final Thoughts
The Iran/contra investigation will not end the kind of abuse of power that it addressed any more than the Watergate investigation did. The criminality in both affairs did not arise primarily out of ordinary venality or greed, although some of those charged were driven by both. Instead, the crimes committed in Iran/contra were motivated by the desire of persons in high office to pursue controversial policies and goals even when the pursuit of those policies and goals was inhibited or restricted by executive orders, statutes or the constitutional system of checks and balances.
The tone in Iran/contra was set by President Reagan. He directed that the contras be supported, despite a ban on contra aid imposed on him by Congress. And he was willing to trade arms to Iran for the release of Americans held hostage in the Middle East, even if doing so was contrary to the nation’s stated policy and possibly in violation of the law.
The lesson of Iran/contra is that if our system of government is to function properly, the branches of government must deal with one another honestly and cooperatively. When disputes arise between the Executive and Legislative branches, as they surely will, the laws that emerge from such disputes must be obeyed. When a President, even with good motive and intent, chooses to skirt the laws or to circumvent them, it is incumbent upon his subordinates to resist, not join in. Their oath and fealty are to the Constitution and the rule of law, not to the man temporarily occupying the Oval Office. Congress has the duty and the power under our system of checks and balances to ensure that the President and his Cabinet officers are faithful to their oaths.”
OldCoastie @ 82
I know about that, but according to Sparkle’s comment then they want on to talk about how others would rise up to fil the void left by Collins after he is gone and then (again according to Sparkles) Collins is supposed to have said that
USAO NDLI will go on like a great sports frnachise after PatFitz is gone.
WTF is up with that?
ew — No, it wasn’t Ari. It was two political editors whose names I didn’t catch. It wasn’t one of the NPR cew, but folks from the Beltway news crowd. I got the impression that it was some print folks, but I’m not positive. The Peanut was asking me a question at the start of the segment, so I missed the names. Anyone catch them?
That is the absolutely correct statement
lhp -
gallows humor?
Shouldn’t journalist’s noses start to twist when people in power act like they have something to hide? Shouldn’t their hearts be racing when people in power make it even more explicit? I mean, they’re saying: “I’ll give you everything I want to give you from over here to the left, everything I want to give you from over here on the right, but don’t expect any information about what’s right here in the center; don’t even ask about it unless you promise not to take notes and you allow me to tell the truth or a lie as I see fit.
At this point, does anyone in the world not know where we should be looking?
This should be easy even for the pillow-style journalists. Just keep asking the obvious question. Is it so hard to imagine Barbara Walters, leaning into the cloudy lens with intense sympathy, asking Bush, Cheney, Rove, Gonzales, or Rice, “Why are you acting so guilty?”
If they weren’t acting guilty, the question wouldn’t even come up. Even first-graders know how it all starts to come apart when you can’t hide the fact that you have something to hide.
Tired Fed @ 53:
They ought to be pretty easy to find, what with the incredible STINK each is emitting!!
emptywheel @ 103
Yup, butt covering. But if somebody hands YOU a copy of a model resignation letter and guidelines, and ALL USA’s appointed since the beginning of the administration haven’t received the same documentation, is it policy, or is it a follow-up to a specific request that you’ve been asked to leave?
I’m going to point back to comments from LHP in previous threads: did these USA’s get tipped that they should begin to look for a position prior to 07-DEC? Who asked, how did they ask, what other accommodations were made if any?
If the system makes an effort to move you after asking you to leave your position, or to prepare to leave your position, it bolsters the case that they were dismissed and did not resign of their choice.
snowbird42 @ 62: Thanks for sharing the Dean quote. I’ve wondered if Miers wasn’t the one they were most worried about. That they couldn’t count on her to lie under oath. Interesting that John Dean’s sources, who seem to know her, think the same.
Looseheadprop @ 87: Thanks for that comment. I asked the question the other day and was told that they were indeed fired because the resignations were coerced. I suspected the legal argument might be more nuanced, along the lines you laid out, but IANAL. I guess the responder wasn’t either.
Yeah she did. She’s been giving me nightmares
Rayne @ 113
And of course, in the case of Cummins and Chiara, we know that answer–yes. Cummins got asked way back in Spring. And Chiara got warned on November 4.
After Bush is gone (sans martial law of course) can his gang still be prosecuted? (stat of limitations?) Or can he do a proactive pardon– for crimes he and others might have committed?
Ah, but K E V I N R Y A N has 10 characters too.
Thank the gods for Waxman.
Who was it interviewed yesterday who said that we would shortly be hearing from current DOJ employees who are sickened by what Abu and Jr. have done to the rule of law in the US.
Also, don’t forget that it was Specter who allowed the secret midnight inclusion of the Patriot Act provision that allowed this to happen in the first place. Lapdog. Quisling. He ought to be booted off the committee. I would still like to know exactly who at DOJ (or was it Rove?) pressured the ‘aide’ to insert that provision.
looseheadprop @ 108
Mr. Heffelfinger has been a champ, so very careful in his parsing.
Just wish he’d been a little less cautious after he was exited pre-Gonzo 8.
OldCoastie @ 98
yes. it “impinges.” Nancy probably does not have a veto override in her pocket (but then, who knows after the drubbing Gonzalez took the other day). so, next steps are: a new supplemental that Bush will sign. But guess what, they have him over a barrel (can the bear be far behind?) cuz he needs the $. Ain’t it nice to hold the purse strings, Nancy?
Two images of Ari Fleischer in my mind:
(1) Talking about bombing Iraq like he had a heart of ice.
(2) Walking up to journalists like a ding-dong and in a cold caller manner, trying to get them raise an eyebrow in Africa about Joe Wilson’s wife.
Can’t agree. Too many ‘Gates’ and I don’t think this will stop with 8. Go back to the original, every time. Say, “This is just like Watergate” “This is Watergate all over again” “This is worse than Watergate” “This will make “Watergate look like a croquet match”
It says the mother of all Govt scandals in living memory, it says Republicans, it say illegal, it says conspiracy, it says justice. It says the president is involved and he will be impeached. Really, Watergate. The outcome is known.
It can get its own name later, right now we talk it up *everywhere*. Everytime they say show trials, we say, yeah, like the watergate trials. Everytime they say no crime, we say, just 9 billion cash missing, not like the Watergate burglary. NSA? Nothing like the Watergate office buggings.
Watergate. Started little, got huge, ended in impeachment. Watergate.
Anything they say, we say Watergate.
Yes, I agree with you. The thing is, that record has to be made. And the threat (admittedly post resignation) that the USA from (maryland was it?) testified to is critical.
The record must be made that these resignations and the others that I suspect will come to light, we NOT VOLUNTARY.
Then you get into obstruction of justice issues.
My point being, whether or not the president has the perogative to fire is a red herring. Don’t be ditratced by the bright shiny object
A lapdog is is what a lapdog does. Leahy scolded him like he just peed on the rug. ‘Bout time.
maholo. good one m-mom.
TiredFed – I suspect Nancy will smack Bush around after he vetos… maybe give just a little and turn the screws VERY tight in the other direction… like you say, she has the money he needs.
egregious @ 28
As lhp has pointed out: this is why they were asked to resign. I’ve seen some comments that forced resignations are generally treated legally as firings in the private sector, but I don’t know if that’s true.
But someone (I’m sorry I don’t remember who) has pointed out several times–the appointments of the new USA’s DID need to have the president’s signature. Did he sign?
And let the citizens say:
Innocent people are not afraid to testify under oath and in public.
Innocent people are not afraid to testify under oath and in public.
Innocent people are not afraid to testify under oath and in public.
Amen and amen.
Good Morning Scarecrow, Christy, & Firedogs,
perris,
I will give you that the spin delivery systems are far more pervasive and sophisticated than they were 34 years ago but, I remind everyone that until James McCord gave Judge Sirica his letter in the sentencing phase, most of the ‘liberal press’ poo-pooed all our concerns about the break in as ‘conspiritorial bally-hoo’ driven by ‘Woodstein’s’ ambitions :)
Remember The Cornwall !!
Churl @ 115
he can be, but he wont be. Dems will say “let’s put it behind us.” that’s why we have to IMPEACH.
Bush’s Commissariat
“Experts see a continuing pattern that began long ago: A Bush White House seizing greater executive power to the detriment of democratic principle.”(Salon)
Today’s executive branch more closely resembles a Communist/Soviet form of government than a form espousing democratic ideals.
The Bush style, motivation and form of government continues to appear modeled on establishing a Commissariat.
Place a commissar, (an official in any communist government whose duties include political indoctrination, detection of political deviation, etc.), at the head of as many agencies and functions as is possible.
The product of America’s science agencies is vetted and amended by commissars. Now, after a massive firing of well qualified but politically suspect U.S. Attorney Generals, justice will be need be blessed by Bush’s commissariat.
Under communism, reality is what the commissariat says is reality. In terms of business management, the marketing division takes control of the corporation. Sales may be plummeting, the engineering division in total disarray, financial resources hemorrhaging and investor confidence at an all time low but, but by controlling all public relations’ releases, the CEO is free to promulgate a false reality.
I was once invited to participate in a boar hunt in Eastern Europe. I asked my prospective host; “if under communism all citizens are equal how does one rationalize that a peasant class would be beating the woods while we sat with shiny loaded weapons waiting for the boars to appear?”
He smiled and said, “ah, under communism some citizens are simply more equal than others.”
The ‘have’ class allied to Bush feel entitled to lead America. If controlling the message that emanates from America’s government branches and agencies includes elevating political imagery to primary goal status, uncircumscribed by truth, then establishing a network of inexperienced, hack commissar-like appointees is the way to go.
# posted by cognitorex
mui @ 122: “Two images of Ari Fleischer…walking up to journalists like a ding-dong and in a cold caller manner, trying to get them (to) raise an eyebrow in Africa about Joe Wilson’s wife.”
Good observation and good for a chuckle. Ding-dong, indeed. Didn’t Condi also tell reporters to look for who sent Joe Wilson on that same Africa trip? Nah, they weren’t coordinating talking points or anything like that.
Don;t know if it will hold legal water in the US but here (Canada) a forced or coerced resignation is called a constructive dismissal and treated as a firing. The ‘asked for resignation’ is treated as a legal fiction, similar standing as ‘contribution’ for an extorted pmt, etc.
Via @ 119:
Chuck Shumer on KO Wed. night. It sounded very “Godfather.” I’m licking MY chops!!
Edit: actually, Shumer was talking about the documents — that “disgruntled employees” over @ DOJ would probably be releasing them, so WH might as well. Don’t recall his talking about DOJ folks testimony.
Which is why I am wondering if PatFitz got a purge call and has alreay been supplied with a copy of the sample “resignation” letter
Too bad he didn’t specify that he wants the pertinent communications from all sources, including GWB43.com. Would be great to let him know that everyone is now aware of how they’re subverting the system. BTW, I was wondering, don’t we have some great hackers on our side that could look into what’s contained in those e-mails diverted to that site because they didn’t want anyone to know about certain information, like election stealing, and abuse of power and such?
emptywheel @ 104
Yupper.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 61
I heard just a snitch of an NPR interview with Josh last night, so they are getting on the case. Right before that they had a Republican hack (I could tell not just by what he said but by the sound of his voice — why do the young ones all have the same cadence and intonation?), who was saying something about the USA’s ‘resignations’ being no big deal. It was one of those many moments that was another kick in the gut, like when you know your love affair is really over, to realize how many people out there really do hate the idea of the United States as a Constitutional compact.
looseheadprop @ 123
Oh, definitely not…I really want to know what happened with every investigation the Gonzo 8 plus a bunch more USA’s were working on that was halted because Bush FIRED them.
But it’s like Capone, not prosecuted on his racketeering but on his tax evasion. We start somewhere.
We may go after Bush on his illegal firing…but then as his entire crew is subpoenaed to testify to the legality, the rest of the story is pulled out. I’ve already asked that ALL the USA’s affected are subpoenaed, along with their AUSA’s. The AUSA’s need to answer not only the question of whether they interviewed and were rejected by Rove, but whether they perceived the departure of the USA to whom they reported as a forced exit. Oh, and by the way, what do they think it was that caused the exit…
lhp – could be…
all righty, all… I’m up, I’m off – have a lovely day!
I know, I know, but I still worry
Celtic Music @ 133
Yeah because of the conversation they had at the back of the plane, I think. Right?
HotFlash @ 134
Ah but you Canucks are, like, civilized.
OldCoastie @ 80
It’s not going to get past the Senate. Hopefully, the Dems get a supplemental passed in Senate and they put the House language back in in Conference, republican-rules wise.
Celtic Music @133
But wait, we can ask Marcy.
New AP report about a former Interior Deputy to plead guilty in Abramoff case, but won’t be required to give up additional info as part of his plea agreement and will serve minimum sentence?
yahoo link
Sorry, I haven’t tried to post a link before.
Craig Johnson @ 132
Are you Craig Johnson recently elected NYS Assemblyman? Or another Craig?
Doesn’t KEVINRYAN have 9 characters?
Here in Canada, at any rate, the fact that the letter of resignation was the exact *form lett provided* would constitute good evidence that the resignation was requested. And I have read Margaret Chiara’s e-mails. Is there any question that she was fired? I mean, if you resign, you choose your own date, no?
[Mod Note; please don’t re-quote more than twice, thanks. The Margin Faerie]
Ohmigawd, schadenfreude overload! I was already in permanent Snoopy dance mode over the Libby convictions! I never could have dreamed of bonus scandals like this, and in such rapid succession!
Can we get Sharon Eubanks a bodyguard?
As for Kyle Sampson, he seems to be looking for some wingnut welfare to keep his mouth shut. What kind of benefits package is Karl going to have to cobble together to get him to politely decline a subpoena?
Leahy and crew should be very careful to not let these witnesses stew too long. Any extra time that Karl gets he is going to use to call in his chits, mutate to a more virulent form and spread a nasty message. Best to get him while he’s still mid-machination.
Couldn’t Bush just insert a signing statement to the bill that congress seems to be going to pass that nullifies the action?
Bluetoe at 149 — You forgot to count the space between the first and last name, which is the tenth character.
You guys are missing my point. Do not worry about the “firing ” angle because it leads to into the red herring “presidential Perogative” debate.
Skip over that!!!!
Go directly to the “forced” part. which will get you down to t=road to obstruction of justcie and interfering with governmental operations.
Kapeesh?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 154
Need more coffee!
Emma @ 147
Ut oh. The fix is in on the Abramoff scandal–they’ll have that one cleaned out of DOJ by the end of the week.
Emma @ 6:43 -
Ya done good. *g*
looseheadprop @ 155
Aye, aye captain!
Emma @ 147
That’s interesting, especially this part:
cathy @ 153
I believe that would constitute a Constitutional crisis. I am prepared to defent the Constitution. Watergate, Watergate, Watergate.
Scarecrow @ 160
And Woodbridge leads right to Gayle Norton (CO connection).
Another sweetheart deal between DOJ and Abramoff ally Griles reported in TPM’s Muck:
“And it sounds like a very good deal for Griles:
Prosecutors dropped earlier allegations that Griles did anything improper to help Abramoff or gained anything of value from the former Republican lobbyist, the AP was told. The agreement does not require Griles to help investigators with their grand jury probe….
In exchange for the plea, federal prosecutors will seek no more than a 10-month prison sentence for Griles — the minimum they could seek under sentencing guidelines — but they will agree to let him serve half that in home confinement, according to one person involved in the case.”
tpm link
How about a little spotlighting action?
That doesn’t even come close to passing the smell test
Emma,
your link above – I was already praying “oh please don’t let it be Griles” as I was clicking on the link @^#!%&$!
she was supposed to be his ethics babysitter !
f’ing vipers
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/002611.php
looseheadprop @ 165
Well, tehy’ve cleaned up their tobacco mess, now they’re cleaning up their oil and gas mess, really quickly like, before DOJ gets shut down.
This is BILLIONS of dollars that was stolen by taxpayers. ANd this is just two degrees of separation from Bush.
Marcy,
I have some info that I want to send to you…could be quasi-related. It bounced back a few days ago. (I sent it to the TNH yahoo address.) Do you have a new e-mail address or should I try re-sending it?
It Seems Likely Bush, with Fielding, Will Go to the Wall on Executive Privilege
This time, it is my belief that Bush — unlike Reagan before him — will not blink. He will not let Fielding strike a deal, as Fielding did for Reagan. Rather, Bush feels that he has his manhood on the line. He knows what his conservative constituency wants: a strong president who protects his prerogatives. He believes in the unitary executive theory of protecting those prerogatives, and of strengthening the presidency by defying Congress.
More from John Dean.
Im wondering if Bushco will go to these ends to secure an all powerful Pres. Why would they give it all up to a Dem Pres in 08?
malachy mccourt at an iraq war protest
youtube link
Emma @
147
I know this is a lame question, but for us newbies, can someone explain how to put text on top of the link?
looseheadprop @ 154
So…let’s go over the questions you would ask, hypothetically speaking, if you were able to subpoena every USA who left their role since Bush took office…
I have you down already for these questions:
What, theoretically, should one communicate to Senator Waxman and Representative Conyers as essential questions?
Too many comments to refer back to. But between the Abramoff news yesterday and the Griles/Woolrich news today, they really are pulling out all the stops, in a very public way, aren’t they? And fast. Mehopes they’re getting sloppy.
Emma @ 147
Hey,
This hasn’t been approved yet by the judge. How do we convince hte judge that it’s a piece of shit plea deal?
Here’s the judge:
U.S. District Judge Ellen Segal Huvelle
Emma @ 168
emptywheel at gmail dot com
So we see with pathetic repetition the angle the Bush Machine is using to defend themselves.
*Terrorists are getting school-bus drivers licenses for use in attacks against American children.
*Al Qaeda/insurgents using children as decoys.
*Gonzales is standing his ground for the children.
Logical extension:
The Democrats are attacking the defenders of children.
-GSD
I watched Griles lie in his testimony before Dorgan and McCain. It was a sight to behold. As I remember, there was a woman there, too, who was openly hostile to the Senators. Can’t recall her position or name.
Absolutely doesn’t pass the smell test. I’m glad the reporter included the bit about Wooldridge connection. Give me a break! The guy obviously knows a helluva lot that needs to be shared. DoJ doing the very least they can while saying they addressed the issue? (Kinda like the tobacco case after the ‘big boys’ stepped in and took control from Eubanks.)
Sally @ 37
Don’t forget Clark or Huckabee or large areas of predominantly black voters…Rove hasn’t.
Which is why I spend so many otherwise billable hours working on election monitoring programs.
Trying to go national. Howard Dean gets, it. Middle management at DNC is more cautious b/c the Kerry folks did it so badly when they tried last time and DNC lifers don’t want another fiasco like that.
Election monitoring is the key to preserving democracy. Both parties hould be doing it. an adversariel process keeps both sides honest.
I am glad to see Marcy posted again the Waxman letter to Gonzo in regards to Eubanks. Below is the letter to the judiciary committee chairs the Henry sent on March 21st in regards to precedent for the Prez’s goons to spill the beans:
Dear Chairman Leahy and Chairman Conyers:
Yesterday President Bush asserted that the White House would give Congress
“unprecedented” access to information regarding the Administration’s recent dismissal of U.S. Attorneys. This statement is misinformed. As you continue discussions with the White House regarding your investigation of the U.S. Attorneys matter, I wanted to bring to your attention relevant precedent.
The President said yesterday that he would not allow White House aides including Senior
Advisor to the President Karl Rove, former White House Counsel Harriet Miers, deputy counsel William Kelley, and political aide J. Scott Jennings testify under oath and on the record about the dismissal of the U.S. Attorneys. Contrary to the President’s contention, there is extensive precedent for officials in these positions to appear before Congress.
Here is a link to Henry’s Funhouse! Check it out!
Of course, the question is, whois the judge? Gotta run, you guys have a nice time storming the White House, and don’t let that bastard bomb Iran while I’m away.
Re the question of Fitz and Assistant US Atty Patrick Collins talking about how the office would be when they are gone, did someone actually hear them talking together? I just looked at the (granted) clips on the websites of the Chicago media of the press conferences announcing the Sanchez indictment, and I heard a reporter ask Fitz about Collins leaving, and he said, basically, that it was always hard to lose someone with so much experience, etc. The clip then cut off, but the two were not up there together, and I sort of doubt that Collins would be at a press conference for what will be a future trial. This is where I heard it, but I do not know how to do links, and this is mostly off topic.
nbc video
It was more a feeble attempt at humor, hence the silly smiley face at the end. I couldn’t agree more with the sentiments that have been expressed that most of the power players on the Right now are survivors of Watergate and Iran Contra, and they’re still as corrupt, only with more experience now. It does deserve more attention.
The final smash and grab is quikening. Bush will turn the US into Zimbabwe before he is outta here.
Heckuva job.
Also, nice of Specter to offer his ass for Tony Snow’s boot one more time. A true masochist, that Specter.
-GSD
*Also, things are heating-up to boiling in the Middle East again. Iranians have taken 15 Brits off the seas and into custody.
Sally,
That was the combative Italia Federici.
-GSD
Rayne, you are the best.
These questions should be asked of every single USA and every single acting USA that has left since the day GWB was elected.
Including Mary Jo White who publicly asked to stay on B/C of 9-11. Her office waas the ONLY place that had any Al Quaeda expertise.
RealWorld @
35
What you’re hearing on NPR is part of the covert marketing campaign by the WH to the media. There was a variation of this on Imus tnis morning. “This is an inside the beltway story.” “Nobody cares.” “Overreaching.”
As I emailed the Imus Show, the DOJ story and the Walter Reed/treatment of wounded and veterans are all pieces of the same puzzle. Just start putting the pieces together instead of buying the WH spin.
Because you can bet they’ve got every bit as aggressive a marketing campaign to reporters and MSM as they have going on to the public. Likely more aggressive, because if they can influence the media and manipulate their language and the coverage, they think they can ride out the problem. PR. It’s what they know best. To them it’s all about the perception. And as long as the MSM play along, it works.
I suggest we nominate the anti-Pulitzers [think the Razzies]…those reporters, media who most shame themselves and their profession by simply spitting out the …. s**** the Cult of Bush is giving them.
Draft your text first. Highlight it. Hit LINK and paste in the link URL. Hit OKAY, twice. That imbeds the link in the highlighted text.
GSD @ 176
You can take the wind out of the Gonzales hot air by asking in public if he is channelling Michael Jackson. There was a picture of AG with the story that just cried out. yo, monk? watertiger? darkblack? anyone?
Emma @ 146
Oh nice. Griles will spend time on landscaping and painting before they put the place up for sale to liquidate their ill-gotten booty.
How To -
Text Over Links -
highlight your link and click on the ‘link’ box above comments
paste the url, click ok
2nd box appears where you can “name” – type in whatever suits ya
Celtic Music @ 173
I don’t hink it is sloppy, so much as fratic. Tehre is no time for covering their tracks. once this guy gets the slap on wrist sentence e cleaned up DOJ cannot go back and ask for a more normal sentence.
So…let’s go over the questions you would ask, hypothetically speaking, if you were able to subpoena every USA who left their role since Bush took office…
I have you down already for these questions:
What, theoretically, should one communicate to Senator Waxman and Representative Conyers as essential questions?
you don’t suppose any of the Gonzo Eight filed for unemployment? if any of them did, there would be a State determination as to whether the separation was involuntary (despite the letter of resignation). that would be nice.
SOmetimes members of the public write letters to the judge, sort of like a layman’s version of an amici brief. The judge will say that he is not inlfuenced, but sometimes, it provides an insight to the judge and prevents a hasty rubber stamp.
Reminds the judge that he still has a role to play in the sentencing process.
Love your title because The Rule of Law has never applied to this corrupt WH!
On the Abramoff topic from today’s news:
“Former Deputy Interior Secretary Steven Griles will plead guilty to one count of obstruction of justice in the Jack Abramoff corruption investigation…
Griles, an oil and gas lobbyist who became an architect of President Bush’s energy policies while at the Interior Department between July 2001 and July 2005, is the highest ranking Bush administration official implicated in the Washington lobbying scandal.”
MSNBC
It’s time to bring all of Jack’s scandals to the light…and nail the big guys at the WH!
Griles commnity service sentence will be to sand and repaint The Dukestir and re-name it the Lady Lynn or Deadeye’s Booty.
-GSD
looseheadprop,
this little hippie is kapeeshin’ loud n clear and again I express my respect for the highly ethical and professional nature of your ‘hints’, how very Fitz-like of you :)
lhp—
Capisco.
Eureka @ 179. I worked with a self-described yellow dog Democrat from Arkansas and she told me with amusement and amazement how small the bank was where the Clintons allegedly pulled their bank heist. We worked in “red” territory so she was very careful when talking about her political leanings. So, as you indicate, there is no limit to what the Griffiths will delve into to satisfy their masters.
TiredFed @ 193
Ah. Add that to the list of questions:
– Did USA’s file for unemployment in their respective state?
– Did they provide the state unemployment agency with any documentation to support their case?
– What was the determination of the state agency — and by the way, can we have all copies of the decision and the documentation you provided to the state agency for your case?
recovering lurker @ 183
Yesterday long time commentor Sparkles the Iguana posted a comment and said that botu Collins and Fitzgerald were at the presser together and were making these comments.
I have been trying to get my hands on the footage ever since, but it does not seem to be anywhere on the net.
I would like to be able to evaluate these statemetns for myself. It’s making me buggy
diane rehm show–replacement host
on npr, friday news roundup
david corn
byron york
andrea? sullivan, must be andrew, it’s a guuy
snickles408 @ 170
That was great. I love the McCourt brothers!
dmac @ 203
Ugh. What a waste of bandwidth.
Just IMO, Snow is doing a fine job of representing the administration’s approach to being questioned about anything which might put them in a negative light. He’s the perfect person for a job in which the main objective is to obfuscate, withhold as much information as possible, and denigrate those who dare to ask tough questions, which is what this administration is all about.
Of course, it might be fun to see replacement suggestions from readers on this thread!
By the way, thanks scarecrow for your analysis on Leahy’s long-term strategy. It was most enlightening
GSD @ 186, thank you. A female GW.
Why does the mafia run our country?
Gates reportedly sought to close Gunatanimo because he feared the international community would look at the proceedings as “show trials”.
Right, of course. Bush and Rove are talking about “show trials” a week after the story of Sheikh Muhammad broke…The ultimate show trial in Guantanimo.
What a bunch of sick bastards. They are ruining this nation.
-GSD
I agree that the DOJ scandal is a red herring. Rove is going to “fight the fishing expedition” and save America. It will take a long time, Gonzo will be ultimately fired. Nov 08 will arrive, and they can pass the smoldering hulk called USA to the Dems to clean up. The good news for Rove and the Idiot Child? Nobody will ever find out the really good stuff…BTW, is that Jeff Gannon floating fsce down in the Potomic?
emptywheel @ 89
Well, I’ve got to say I can’t find the segment I thought I heard on the NPR site. This may have been an insert from our local station. The reports from Ari Shapiro and Nina Totenberg were actually quite good as was last nights piece on TPM. So my apologies NPR.
On another note, do any of the lawyers here have a take on the claim in the WH memo on the tobacco case that the appeals circuit ruling in the tobacco case necessitated reducing the penalty request from 200 B to the 10B? Is that a smokescreen?
Was it Ari? He was one of the good guys from the Libby trial.
I wish we could find out about this too. I’ll try looking also.
thanks much scarecrow @189 and cbl @192!
Here’s a test run link to John Dean’s column today at FindLaw’s Writ.
on Fred Fielding and executive privilege. (and Harriet Miers under oath)
I dunno,
Bush, Cheney and Rove show trials in Gitmo has a certain appeal.
GSD @ 209
looseheadprop -
believe this is what Sparkles was alluding to -
found it by googling Fitz’s snark about Jeter :)
Chicago Tribune
How many of these Bush adminstration lackeys are coming to into the legal system for malfeasance right now?
Yet that centrist tool David Jergens-Gergen says Bush reign has been “scandal free”?
Jergens for the hand release he tends to give to the power-elite.
-GSD
Fresh thread, up and running, including a bit from the Fitz presser from yesterday for anyone who is interested.
barbara @
129
I appreciate what you’re saying in spirit, but the reality and the “rubber meets the road” content of this statement is something else again. We are talking lawyers and legal language here.
This same idea was put out during the McCarthy HUAC hearings 50 years ago and we are still paying for that mistake.
Would you like to be questioned without limits on everything you’ve ever done? Since you’re innocent you have nothing to hide. Right?
TiredFed @ 34
Which department, TiredFed? For HHS our biggest budget push comes in August/September when our financial people are trying to get enough into the budget for the next fiscal year. (October/November is second, that’s when they try to figure out what they can cut because we’re on a continuing resolution…)
brillian day to day= FDL!
To see Rover or Shooter reminds me of:
The Vogon Captain in charge of overseeing the destruction of the Earth, Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz is sadistic, even by Vogon standards. When not shouting at or executing members of his own crew for insubordination, Jeltz enjoys torturing hitchhikers on board his ship by reading his poetry at them, then having them thrown out of an airlock into open space.
Physically, Jeltz is described as being unpleasant to look at, even for other Vogons. Given that Ford Prefect describes Vogons as having “as much sex appeal as a road accident”, one can only imagine how much worse Jeltz must appear. This may explain his disposition.
It is revealed in The Restaurant at the End of the Universe that Jeltz had been hired by Gag Halfrunt to destroy the Earth. Halfrunt had been acting on behalf of a consortium of psychiatrists and the Imperial Galactic Government in order to prevent the discovery of the Ultimate Question.
LHP, Patrick Collins was not at the Fitzgerald press conference yesterday. From the official Press Release:
“The charges were announced by Patrick J. Fitzgerald, United States Attorney for the Northern District of Illinois; Robert D. Grant, Special Agent-in-Charge of the Chicago Office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation; Kenneth T. Lag, Inspector-in-Charge of the U.S. Postal Inspection Service in Chicago; and James Vandenberg, Special Agent-in-Charge of Investigations for the U.S. Department of Labor Office of Inspector General in Chicago.”
link to press release:
http://thecapitolfaxblog.com/s…..elease.pdf
There are serious reasons for the crisis in confidence that permeates the American publics confidence in congress. The main reason for this crisis is “solid as Iraq”.
If Republicans do not get on the demand that Bush administration officials testify under oath bus. They will lose even more support by honest Americans who will be left with the example of congress requiring a standing President testify under oath about the hanky panky taking place in his life. Yet the Republican controlled congress did not make serious efforts to hold anyone in the Bush administration ACCOUNTABLE for the WMD INTELLIGENCE SNOWJOB conducted on the American people and the continuing illegal war that the Iraqi people are suffering from.
In fact Republican Senator Pat Roberts did everything possible to divert and delay Phase II of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. Let’s hope and pray that Senator Rockerfeller completes Phase II of the SSCI and we witness those responsible for the creation and dessimination of false pre-war intelligence held ACCOUNTABLE.
The American public is starving for justice and holding those responsible for the false intelligence and a criminal war accountable is the very least that our congress can do for those who have needlessly lost their lives in this war of choice.
We are waiting.
Gonzales’ stated wish to protect his kids — is that another way of saying he is about to resign “in order to spend more time with his family?” Actually, he will be extremely fortunate to get away with just a forced resignation. Gonsalez is staring straight down the business end of an impeachment cannon.
Sadly, Gonzalez is a low-level tool in this travesty. The transformation of the DOJ into a branch of the Republican party is the brain child of Karl Rove, with the blessing of Bush and Cheney.
And in some inexplicable irony, the infamous John Ashcroft probably resigned because the stench was too much even for him. Either that or he was afraid of being one day impeached.
HotFlash @
123
I like it. A lot.
Anna Belle @ 85
I like “The Pearl Harbor Eight” … it evokes emotion, conjurs up images of a stealth attack, and reminds those who are aware of the PNAC’s master plan. I wonder if it was coincidence that they “executed” the firings on that day?
I propose JusticeGate.
I think we can’t break the MSM’s Gate-diction, and I agree w Zee that the #8 has built-in obsolescence (as does Gonzo, fwiw).
JusticeGate describes what’s really under attack here.
As Mark Twain noted, “History doesn’t repeat itself; at best it sometimes rhymes.”
18 days of missing emails?
18 and a half minutes of missing tape. Just for reference, I reviewed a Watergate timeline from WaPo last night.
July 23, 1973 — Nixon refuses to turn over the presidential tape recordings to the Senate Watergate Committee or the special prosecutor.
It took another year before the Supreme Court ruled no executive privilege and the House started impeachment proceedings.
Since, as I age, time seems to move faster, perhaps it won’t take that long this time around.
Good. um. Afternoon. Scarecrow!
I’m insanely late to the Lake today, running way behind the pack. *puff puff*
But I just had to log on to thank you for yet another incredible post.
JUST the kinda thing this puppy wants to read.
Go get um!!! ;->
I noticed in today’s news that the former Deputy Interior Secretary has pled guilty to a single count of Obstruction of Justice in Abramoff-related matters. He’s been offered the minimum 10-month sentence, half of which can be served at his home. Other charged have been dropped. This apparantly does not require “cooperation”.
I like the two combined – Pearl Harbor Justice Gate – .
Brisingamen @ 219
OMB Mark comes around Thanksgiving. When the folks at OMB are feeling especially Scrooge-like, they give us the mark on the day befor Thanksgiving and ask for appeals by Monday! Nicer folks wait til just after Thanksgiving, but you can bet we are all running around like preoverbial headless chickens all during the time period.
Frederic Royce Perez @ 230
and then there were 9 (probably soon to be 10). so the Gonzo 8 wont work. I like the JusticeGate so far the best.
Re: diane rehm show–replacement host
on npr, friday news roundup
Diane returned to her show Monday of this week after a bout with pneumonia. Hopefully, it’s just continuing fatigue that took her out today. My skeptical self has doubts.
This site has heaped deserved praise on Ms. Plame. Put that in context in another brewing scandal.
Ms. Plame ended twenty-two or so years as a GS-14 (at least, that was her admitted rank). Within sixteen years, Sharon Eubanks had become a member of the Senior Executive Service. That’s at least two ranks and a big promotion hurdle higher than Ms. Plame.
Ms. Eubanks was at the helm when the govt won complex, multi-year litigation that no one thought it could win. She had been on the team for years. Now, she, too, is out of government. She deserves recognition and support denied her by Mr. Gonzales’ DOJ.
The motto on the Philosophy of Government wing of the Karl Rove Museum: “If you can’t corrupt it, shut it down. And always use private e-mail servers.”
Other investigations:
Wasn’t Ken Lay prosecuted by the Feds? Who was the U.S. Attorney in that district? And why on earth did it take five years to bring charges against him?
this time it’s a kinda happy sort of anger fortunately. It’s really rallied the base and given passion to a lot of people (especially in the house) that we slaughtered in the midterms and we seem to be about to go into 08 with a least even more victories in the house and more senate seats. I wrote my own blog about the legalities and why we should seize rove with the sergeant-at-arms method, my mom asked me to read it back to her. I was obviously pissed, but GOD did it feel good to say it in such a loud bold strong and passionate voice. Roaaaarr. I’m a liberal, even a far leftist you might say, but god damn it, HEAR ME ROAR!