. Joe Lieberman be damned: President Pissy Pants just got on TV and said the Democrats wanted to end his pet war. Despite what may or may not be in the bill, that is what the average American is going to hear. With the gross unpopularity of this war and people already fleeing "Republican values" like it was a herpes infestation, I cannot see how this is anything but a very good thing. And thanks to whoever put up the shot of Nancy Pelosi on CNN while Dubya was throwing his hissy fit. It could not have been clearer — he so did not like having his ass waxed by a girl. Not one little bit.
. Move over Atrios, I think Dave Obey just named Fred Hiatt wanker of the day. Via Gregg Sargent:
Let me submit to you the problem we have today is not that we didn't listen enough to people like The Washington Post. It's that we listened too much. They endorsed going to war in the first place. They helped drive the drumbeat that drove almost two-thirds of the people in this chamber to vote for that misbegotten, stupid, ill-advised war that has destroyed our influence over a third of the world. So I make no apology if the moral sensibilities of some people on this floor, or the editorial writers of The Washington Post, are offended because they don't like the specific language contained in our benchmarks or in our timelines.
What matters in the end is not what the specific language is. What matters is whether or not we produce a product today that puts pressure on this Administration and sends a message to Iraq, to the Iraqi politicians that we're going to end the permanent long-term dead end babysitting service. That's what we're trying to do. And if The Washington Post is offended about the way we do it, that's just too bad.
More like this, please. Donald Graham's little neocon lovefest on the editorial page has needed someone to take the wood to it for a very long time. Hey Dave, ever hear of Judith "I was proved fucking right" Miller? I could hook you up with some links…
. I guess there were emails that didn't get turned over in that 18 day gap. Everyone surprised by this raise your hand, and then let us know how soon you are expecting to receive your Nigerian inheritance.
Related posts:
- Changing of the Guard: US Troops Withdraw from Iraqi Cities; Maliki Declares “Sovereignty Day”
- Brauchli to WaPo Readers: Lalalalalala! I Can’t Hear You!
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Dave Cullen: Columbine
- What Have We Done? Single Mothers Among New Homeless Vets
- Pete Hoekstra: US Shouldn’t Close Guantanamo — It’s a “Great Place”
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Hope you’re feeling OK Jane.
ZED?
Jane!
oh SO well said, Jane. I anoint Speaker Pelosi as the HMFIC (Head MotherFucker in Charge).
I think you’ll all be surprised to find out that the American people don’t want the troops out by a fund cut-off. I don’t think they like to see the partisan wrangling either. JMO…
“President Pissy Pants”
You got that right, that petulant little fuck.
I love how he always uses carefully chosen people as background props.
.
Guitar_Playing_Bastard @
1
Feeling very well, actually. Cranky enough to bitch about having to go on my damn walk.
Okay, I guess that’s every day.
So they’re beginning to learn how girls fight. Heh.
Keep up the good work, we love you.
“….and denounced the vote as “political theater.” Bush in presser today.
Political theater?? This from the man who is using troops as props behind him as he speaks!?!?!?
Anyone else see the irony here ??
I’m trying to figure out the spin here. President Pissypants is threatening to veto the bill funding the Iraq war, because he doesn’t like the details. I’m expecting a senior administration official (Hi, Karl!) to start gushing about Bush’s notorious attention to detail. He routinely interrupts the generals fighting in Iraq to point out subtle mistakes that they make in their PowerPoint presentations. (”I believe that ‘al Sader’ should be hyphenated, general. And there’s usually no ‘e’ in the transliteration. In fact, I’d appreciate it if you’d write his name using the Arabic character set. I’ve got the font right here on my laptop.”)
You mean Commander Codpiece hasn’t been entirely forthcoming? I am shocked!!! Of course, everything will be fine as soon as the wire transfer comes through from that nice Nigerian barrister . . .
Speaking of Digby, I posted this in response to her “Morning in America” comment:
Morning in America? mmm . . . not quite . . .
More like eyes blinking open in mid-afternoon, with a skull splitting hangover — from a toxic brew of GOoPer kool-aid.
The hard core GOoPer 20 percenters? Still drunk on Bush lies, they’ve moved on to the DTs — complete with red-hot codpiece dancing pink elephants.
Let him Veto!! He will look like a bigger idiot then he is.
Then the Dems push can push an even more liberal bill that gives only money for withdrawal!!!
snarkalicious
Well, well, well..looks like Georgie’s having a little hissy fit. I’ll veto and hold my breath until I turn blue, wah, wah, wah.
Ain’t that sweet.
The satisfying thing is that if everyone sticks to their guns in the House, it doesn’t matter what the Senate does…Georgie’s allowance will continue to be cut off and stuck in limbo. Hee, hee, hee. No bill, no moola.
Jane Hamsher @
8
Jane, it will get better when the weather improves. CT in the Spring and Summer can be quite nice and balmy even. (I usd to live in Wallingford and Manchester)…
Interesting that CNN had the graphic of Pelosi during the hissy fit. I commented toward the end a couple of threads ago that when David Ussery (NBC) did his very brief wrap-up, he made a point of discussing how Pelosi had held the Dem caucus together on the vote. Wondering if any other media outlets made Pelosi a part of the story, or just focused on Bush’s comments.
Iranian president to visit U.S. Saturday
Ahmadinejad will address U.N. Council ahead of vote on Iran nuke program
Updated: 33 minutes ago
UNITED NATIONS – Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad will arrive in New York early Saturday to address the U.N. Security Council before a vote on whether to sanction his country for refusing to stop enriching uranium, a council diplomat said.
Ahmadinejad was to arrive at 1 a.m. Sat
give david obey a call of support at 202-225-3365.
Great takedown of that stupid ponce at the Post. The only thing better would have been if Obey personally crammed every single edition of the post since 2003 right up hiatt’s weasely ass on the floor of the House. Using a sledgehammer if necessary for those big Sunday editions.
Topanga-lib @ 12
Indeed, doesn’t the bill have $$$ for our injured troops?
I can’t imagine that our President hates the troops so much that he would reject funding for our injured troops!
“he so did not like having his ass waxed by a girl. Not one little bit.”
jane, you make me laugh every day. thanks.
ooh, the chimpster does need a full body wax to keep up the impression he is a humanoid.
gogitem Jane. We got to keep hammerin those krauts over at the wuzpost, keep callin’ em out, keep hammerin, their lightweight spinners (can anyone spell m.a. akers?) and their bigtime liars (nowak). Donald graham, like sulzbergers @ Nytimes are yer typical 3d or 4th generational weakminded whores.
Code pink has a Pelosi watch at their website
Jane- you know I’d never think of criticizing you, but for the love of something, please don’t put images of georgies’ waxed ass in my head!
LibertyLee @
5
Well, Liberty Lee, the funding will only be cut off if Bush vetos the bill. So that kind of sort of makes HIM responsible if the funds get cut off.
And by the way, debate over differences of opinion in Congress is essential to a healthy democracy. I am really tired of Democrats being accused of political wrangling every time they happen to disagree with the GOP positions.
Jane -
Re. your post title: no, no….tell us how you *really* feel!
Love ya’, darlin’; and, tho’ you’ve heard it ad nauseam, take care of yourself.
Jazz on the green in New Haven, with a large apizza from Sally’s or Modern! Getcha right as rain in no time!
drinksforall @
9
OOOH–Snap!
drinksforall @ 9
Irony is something the houskeeping staff does.
apparently, the shrub didn’t look well on the high def, jumbo, wide screen tv that some people own.
Bob “groupthink” Woodward and many of the other group thinkers at the Wapo should have been listening the Diane Rehms show before the invasion. She had expert after expert telling us that the intelligence was hogwash and that we would end up in a QUAGMIRE if we illegally invaded Iraq.
Are we safer yet? We know the Iraqi people are not!
pachelbelle@24: The President must veto the bill because it contains the kind of message to our enemies and our allies that is unacceptable in a time of war. Whether you agree with the war or not, we have soldiers fighting it. You don’t have 535 Commanders-in-Chief; you have one. He has the right to set the rules and he will and it will be Speaker Pelosi et. al., responsible for the cutoff if they do not send him a clean bill. You cannot fight a war by bribery and unacceptable conditions.
The view I have is that the Bush macho boys think of woman as some sort of minority. And I would think that we know how the GOP in general, and the the Bush guys in particular relate to ethnics. I am just enjoying this to no end. That “little (progressive) woman”, from nutty Cali, the Speaker, is beating the socks off these imitation cowpokes who think women should be seen; not heard. It’s all so unbelievably delicious. And satisfying, too.
Jane Hamsher @
7
Tha’ts very good Jane, glad to hear it. I bitch about getting on the exercise bike so I’m with you.
“And if the Washington Post is offended by the way we do it, that’s too bad.”
I could never be a Congressmen.
The Bastard says: “And if the Washington Post is offended by the way we do it, that’s too FUCKING bad.”
Former Deputy Interior Secretary J. Steven Griles pleaded guilty Friday to obstruction of justice – lying to a Senate committee. Yellow georgie doesnt want this to happen to rove, gonzo et al:
“I am sorry for my wrongdoing. I fully accept the responsibility for my conduct and the consequences it may have,” Griles said in a statement. “When a Senate committee asks questions, they must be answered fully and completely and it is not my place to decide whether those questions are revelant or too personal. I apologize to my family, my friends, the committee and its staff.”
OT: (Sort of) The “USA 8″ scandal has already had one good effect. No doubt this isn’t news to many of you, but it was to me. From Tuesday’s NYTImes:
[emphasis mine]
Let’s hope that’s not the end of it, but at least some of the damage to our democracy over the last six years is being undone.
i heard this today.
thom hartmann describes part of our country’s problems as follows:
*an american man’s identity is based on his profession.
*today the american man has been robed of a meaningful way to earn a living and so his identity is in the toilet.
*He is angry and casting about for someone to blame.
*Right wing media tells him to blame women, liberals, al gore, jane fonda, and on and on.
*he does not understand that his own beloved party is the culprit.
And look at who the GOP is offering up as potential candidates for prez. Newt and Rudy.
Oooohhh Jane!
You’re on a tear this week. Just gotta love it.
The rest was so dandy, at 1st I read yer 3rd to last line to say “…18 day ga[s]p.” Heh. Fitting.
terrific work by the whole FDL crew. What a week this has been…. THANK YOU! ;->
LibertyLee @
5
I’m going to assume that you are new to the blogosphere and you still have the traditional media messaging system rattling around in your brains, but if you’re not, excuse this in advance:
For one thing, we aren’t cutting off funds. We are setting limits on the worst foreign policy blunder in American history. We are giving Bush a budget for his war and telling him he has until 2008 to end it. Seems reasonable. If he wants to veto the bill, that means he wants to cut funding himself unless we let him have his way and play war endlessley with our troops and taxes.
Plus, partisan wrangling is what you get when one party, the GOP, has been taken over by ruthless and greedy thugs and religious crazies. They had complete control of government for 6 years and they got everything they wanted by bullying, intimidation, stubborness and perhaps even criminality. As I recall, last November, the public you refer to, and of which I am a member, voted that they didn’t like that anymore so they voted the GOP out of power in Congress. They wanted the new guys to put things right. But the GOP is playing a very clever game and asks that you accept that Democrats are not compromising with them and agreeing to be like them. That’s because Democrats are not a party fullof ruthless and greedy thugs and crazy religious people. Democrats resist stuff like that. If you think that is partisan wrangling, what the hell has Karl Rove been doing for the past 6 years running the presidential and congressional campaigns from the west wing?
NO one plays partisanship better than the GOP. And realistically, the only way you are going to get the bi-partisanhsip the news media has convinced everyone they crave is for the Democrats to play hardball wiht the Republicans until they reach parity. Or until the Democrats govern effectively in spite of the Republicans. When the Republicans get tired of playing stupid political games because they see it isn’t getting them anywhere, then there shall be bi-partisanship and we will beat our swords into plowshares and the lion shall lie down with the lamb and there will be free ponies for all.
Hey Jane – glad to see you’re enjoying this! I’m with you part way – like seeing Nancy beat up George a lot and Obey taking on WaPo is sweet.
but …. it’s painful esp with the following:
Obey’s line – and it’s the sort used by most Dems:
” What matters is whether or not we produce a product today that puts pressure on this Administration and sends a message to Iraq, to the Iraqi politicians that we’re going to end the permanent long-term dead end babysitting service.”
really really disturbs me.
How is enforcing an illegal occupation with a puppet government “permanent long-term dead end babysitting service.” ?
I just so wish someone would own up to what we have really done in Iraq – this blame the victim approach from the Dems is dreadful and I fear we will not end the war or have real accountability until the scope of our crimes is acknowledged.
I guess it’s hard for Bush to adjust from being a tinpot dictator to having to answer to anyone. Presidenting isn’t fun anymore, huh?
Preznit running to Camp David as we speak.
The Point made by Daily Kos hits the nail right on the head — All money issues arise in the U.S. House of Representatives. No where else.
If our Benighted Emperor vetoes, he cuts his own funding.
The fight is on, and won’t be over for a while.
Nancy Pelosi shows so much more leadership than Hillary could ever show, it is pathetic. I am certainly glad someone has the “juevos” to stand up to this Mad Emperor.
As Donald Trump has said (No, I don’t like him, but he at least has the success level to give him credibility in the national dialogue) This Bush guy is the worst President he has seen in his lifetime.
I agree, and I passed 50 a few years ago.
We need to start having polls, constantly, every day, every week, as to whether this Emperor is worse than Nixon or not.
NOW THAT would be “framing the dialogue” for a change instead of being reactive to these Texas Fascists!
Has anyone seen a list of the 14 House dems who voted against the deadline bill yet? I really want to know who Lieberling’s allies in the House are…
Ooh, lookie. Talking points straight from the Mainstream Republican playbook:
LibertyLee @ 31
A flawless Republican simulacrum. Tony Snow couldn’t have done it better.
well said.
This sickens me as well.
EXACTLY, LibertyLee… EXACTLY!
portia.vz @ 38
Actually I’m inclined to vote for Hillary, though I detest the Senator’s policies, or non-policies (you decide) on the Middle East, just to piss the Republicans off even more. Would these guys totally hate a President Hillary, or what. Tempting. Very tempting.
BLub – the majority (though not all 14) of the Dems who voted No did so out of their conviction that *any* funding for the war beyond funds to withdraw the troop was wrong.
The most committed progressives like Woolsey, Waters, Lee and friends were the ones standing for a real end to this horror.
They sure weren’t standing next to Lieberman.
…wonder who polishes his codpiece for him?
Or is that one of the presidential duties he takes care of himself?
Jane, you mentioned some links you might provide to Damn Judith’s propaganda, I think you’re on to something there, we should put together a blog-powered linkfest to her and all the rest of the liars, and their PUBLISHED lies and gross anti-journalism, It would go on for quite a few pages.
Clicking through those links would be like watching Bob Greenwald’s first big expose’ (at least as far as the “war” is concerned), “The Truth about Iraq.”
I watched it over again, (it was made way-back-when,) and is still timely, accurate and ironically, tragically prescient.
Those links to the lies might provide an easy reference for Waxman et al, to dig up their old lies more easily.
And we would certainly not want for fodder, the list of apologists and war-mongers who wrote or published falsified and twisted information to get us into this quagmire is a long one.
Indexed properly, and listed both by lie category and byline, it would surely represent a virtual “Hall of Shame.”
I just hopped over to C&L to watch the video of the presser. Did you all catch that contemptuous little sniff he gave when he said “just passed by a narrow majority”? And he also referred to the ‘Democrat-ic’ majority a little later on. I don’t think I’ve ever heard him add the -ic before.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 48
I understand that. I was sitting at a red light a couple of days ago and there was a woman in a Volvo with a big “HILLARY ‘08″ sticker on her bumper. The redneck guy in the pick-up truck behind her (and next to me) was just fixated on that sticker, staring through eyes slitted with rage.
I thought, “Damn, I need to get me a sticker like that. I may not vote for her, but look how much it’s bothering that guy.”
Maybe we all need Hillary stickers.
From the Obey quote:
This is the important thing. This bill isn’t going to fix things. It may not pass the Senate, and the President will either veto it or, worse yet, ignore it. Either way, it’s really not going to materially change anything.
What it does, though, is send a mesages. That message is “Time’s up.”
Blame-the-victim is part of the political theater of getting out of Iraq. The U.S. voters want to leave but are still in a state of partial denial about how badly the U.S. lost the war. Thus, blame-the-victim is a intermediary step in the gradual realization of the magnitude of the calamity.
Iraqis, of course, don’t vote in the U.S., making them all the more convenient. And, I hate to say it but I think it’s true, not many Americans give a FF about Iraqis anyhow.
OK Kid, at 47
I respect your position, but Hillary cannot win. Period. She has too much baggage in the minds of the voter who will want to vote Dem unless we give them a reason not to.
AND, if a woman is going to win, the voter has to see her as a “Strong Leader” eg; Pelosi.
Hillary is no Pelosi. Ergo, she can’t win. Edwards should pick Nancy as his running mate.
I want my party to do three things. Get out of Iraq. Prevent anymore unprovoked attacks on other countries and promote a just settlement to the Palestinian-Israeli situation. I think Senator Clinton gets an ‘F’ in all three catagories.
LibertyLee @
31
Let’s get one thing straight…The only thing to do here is pull the troops out.
Now.
Right now.
No other course of action can possibly produce a better result.
If you can’t see that, please go here.
Like-minded people there. You won’t find any supporters of your views among the regulars here.
Blub @ 44
From DailyKos, the 14 are:
John Barrow
Dan Boren
Lincoln Davis
Kucinich
Barbara Lee
John Lewis
Jim Marshall
Jim Matheson
Michael McNulty
Mike Michaud
Gene Taylor
Maxine Waters
Diane Watson
Lynn Woolsey
To be fair, a number of them wanted a tougher bill (like Maxine Waters, Barbara Lee and Lynn Woolsey). I wouldn’t automatically assume all Dem no votes were from Liebermanesque politicians.
“No money shall be drawn from the treasury, but in consequence of appropriations made by law.” U.S. Constitution, Article 1 (Congress), Section 9, Clause 7. It’s called the power of the purse. And it’s Nancy’s purse!
Blub @ 43
Some of them voted from a progressive’s point of view, they aren’t all toadies. But in some ways, imho, this ideological intractability borders on Naderism, the dissenting progressives and liberals need to realize that sometimes you just have to take a baby step to set up your triple-jump.
There was a stubborn little cocaine rock lodged in his left nostril. Notice how much more animated he became after that.
I’m watching the rest of the presser now. What a dickhead. I don’t even think he believes what he’s saying anymore.
TRex @
61
I bet that fucker’s snorting a couple lines every half hour.
JEP @ 59
JEP, it’s not ideological intractability. It’s conscience. A lot of those people have voted against every bill funding the war and could not bring themselves to vote for this one either.
I don’t necessarily agree with them, but I definitely respect them.
My mamma used to say, “He would cut off his tongue to spite his face.” I understand better now what that means. Cut off funding the troops to spite Pelosi and the Dem majority. Not smart. Mamma Pelosi – very smart to walk bad boy into her trap. Hahahahah.
drinksforall @
9
Two words: Mission Accomplished
eCAHNomics @ 54–I fear that you’re right– most Americans don’t care about the Iraqis or the Afghans.
Here’s evidence and a very sad story at the link.
http://www.informationclearing…..e17385.htm
This of course does not take into account the ones left behind trying to survive and defend their country.
egregious @
8
Double Ding!
TRex @ 59
TRex, it’s either that or vi*gra, his face was flushed and his pupils were quite animated…
“If you have an election lasting more than 4 hours, call the supreme court…”
MSNBC – iranian prez calls off scheduled visit to US
This is Great Speaker Pelosi is standing up to the big bully! Even though she knows she can’t ” win” in the normal sense by ending the war with a vote. She can achieve her objective by denying her opponet a “win “. Although after years of a GOP congress giving bush EVERYTHING he wanted and he still couldn’t win I think the game is over. bush makes Pelosi look better by getting angry and threatening a Veto. After all after the Veto WHAT is bush going to to get money for the war? bush is hoping that Pelosi went to far and that the silent majority will rise up and save his Poll numbers/war. If that doesn’t happen bush will want a face saving comprimise. The comprimise should be that bush pay for the war, or at least half the total cost of the war before he leaves office. Obama, and Hilary should lead the charge in the Senate unless they want to get stuck cleaning up all of g.w off the books war budget and the bush/greenspan subprime mess.
ooohh, lookee, the trolls have found FDL! Remember folks, don’t feed the trolls.
eCAHNomics – what I see is that not many democrats give a fuck about Iraqis either …
You know, we talk all the time about framing, etc yet on Iraq, we are oh so happy to use our victims as pawns in some stupid game to avoid accountability … after all, we wouldn’t want to own up to being the bad guys in this.
As long as we frame as “babysitting” etc, we miss the essential fact that the violence in Iraq is caused by *us* and that provides the excuse for Bush and so many others to keep this war going.
The supplemental itself provides a complete pass on actually removing all troops and instead calls for retaining combat forces in Iraq to do all the things Bush claims they are there to do now.
While I am sick about it, I’ve given up the argument against the supplemental but folks shouldn’t sugarcoat it rather than face up to what is really in it and what it tells us about the lack of will amongst Dems to actually end the war.
If we don’t look at reality, our future strategy will be screwed.
Ah.. OK. Sorry. I didn’t know they were going to do that. btw, does anyone know what this Dept of Peace proposal is all about? I think it’s Kucinich and Lee. I got an email from my rep, Susan Davis, who’s co-sponsoring it, apparently.
- asw
I agree that it’s fun to watch the rightwingnuts froth when Hillary’s name is mentioned, but she lost me when she said we have to stay in Iraq.
I hadn’t made any decisions as to which Democratic candidate I would vote for in the primary next year, until yesterday…
I saw an act of grace and courage, an example of what you do when the breaks don’t go your way, and I have no qualms about voting for John Edwards.
Yes, Tired…
And, as I’ve said, if I remember my civics lessons, ALL money bills must originate in the House. Period. So, the Senate will now debate this for a while. Which is good for the dialogue. The audience is the American people.
Then, if they reject it, or change it and send it back to the House, the House gets another shot at re-writing it, or originating another.
The point is, the dialogue is on. Bush can’t win the dialogue any more because people don’t trust him, he has lost credibility, is a snake-oil salesman who will continue to show his ass, and the Repugnican supporters of his will all show their ass as well.
Everyone knows his war is a folly, a civil war and is perpetual. Just let the Emperor keep talking. He is his own worst enemy…
MEANTIME, he has to keep defending his power moves to protect his house full of liars over the “whoring of the American Justice system.”
Let the idiot talk. He is his own worst enemy.
TiredFed @ 57
Charles Krauthammer says Gonzo has to go. “Because he allowed a scandal to be created where there was none.” Michael Kinsley, however, quoting David Brooks approvingly, still thinks Purgegate is much ado about nothing.
eCAHNomics @ 54
We *didn’t* lose the war. As a matter of fact, if we just restarted the draft, raised taxes out the wazoo and dropped a couple of nukes in the right places, we could tidy the middle east up pretty nicely in a couple of decades.
The military won the invasion and the military can be beefed up to squash every fricking Muslim in the ME if we wanted to.
The question is, do we want to? And the answer, as registered by last Nov 2006, appears to be no.
By and large, americans finally see how our invasion touched off regional instability that we can’t control without scorched earth tactics.
So, there is your choice: nuke the place or get the hell out. Most people chose door number 2.
Wise choice.
JEP … please don’t go there. Some of us vehemently oppose this legislation because it is bad legislation and it does nothing, nothing to end the war.
While I understand that many feel it was a smart maneuver … others of us think it’s just more of the same disaster.
I had a post that was up near the top that seems to have been eaten by the toobz. It was a little nasty, but I didn’t think it was THAT bad. Just suggested hanging the bad guys by a body part is all… Oh well. :})
[Mod Note; comments that advocate violence, including hanging, will be removed.]
Pelosi in ‘07. Start with Gonzales and work up.
conniptionfit @ 72
Ahhh, yes, you are right. No use engaging them in rational conversation. They are immune. I won’t feed the trolls anymore.
“Lies” from a Washington Post editor from back in the day.
JEP @ 59
I don’t know what was going on in the minds of those legislators. I doubt they’ve written much yet about why they voted as they did, and I distrust mind-reading arguments. They may have voted the way they did because they don’t think that Congress has the right to try to limit the executive branch the way it’s trying to do. In some ways I think that’s a valid argument, although there’s certainly precedent for what Congress is doing.
In an ideal world, Congress would undeclare the war it declared in 2002 with the AUMF on Iraq, and it would do it over Bush’s veto. That’s something that’s well within its authority, and it’s good grounds for impeachment when Bush refuses to comply. Unfortunately, that kind of bill isn’t going to pass by a veto-proof majority, so they’re doing this instead.
Considering that we got into this mess by ignoring some longstanding principles of government, I think sticking to principle is a good thing. If that’s why they voted as they did, more power to them.
Watching rerun of Pelosi presser -
Loved response by Obey? when asked about all the “pork” included in the bill……….(paraphrased) “We were just taking care of emergency budgetary actions that the republics couldn’t/wouldn’t complete last year.” Not a bad job of “framing”. *g*
Howie has a very good post giving a breakdown of the 14 Nays … read it before taking uninformed shots at progressive heroes:Down with Tyranny
portia.vz @ 81
Good on you, portia! (whispers: but they are hard to resist, aren’t they?)
LibertyLee @ 30
Cutting off funds for Vietnam led to the end of that terrible war. Or do you believe that war was winnable as well?? By the way you can catch up on the rest of Limbaugh’s show (1/2 hour left to go) and brush up your GOP approved talking points!
mrobinsong @ 81
God, she’s brilliant! All we really needed was a leader with something different, like two X chromosomes. Her toughness and leadership skills were completely unanticipated by the Goopers. Why didn’t we think of it before?
Siun–I said Americans, not Republicans. Yep, Ds want to get out for selfish reasons & won’t acknowledge any sins on U.S. part.
Which raises another topic. How do those of us who are concerned about bad U.S. policy escape from the blame-America-first label? One effective retort I’ve used is: if you believe in “my country, right or wrong,” you are guaranteeing your country will be wrong, because no human endeavor succeeds unless it acknowledges cogent criticism.
Any other suggestions?
angie @ 46
Take the old pottery barn line and put it something like this: We are the bull in the china shop, mayhem cannot stop nothing can be repaired or paid for until the bull (US) removes itself.
I agree with angie and siun (no secret there) but its time to support this plan wholeheartedly in terms of pushing our senators, imo.
I think the bill was HR 1591 but the vote is not yet listed.
sure hope the FDL crew blogs from the Aipac trial coming up in June. This is at JTA.
Calling out Satterfield
By Ron Kampeas
USGO-2 will be taking your questions now.
If that sounds cryptic it’s not entirely inappropriate – USGO-2 is kind of cryptic. He’s otherwise known as David Satterfield, the top Iraq adviser to U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. But, as U.S. Government Official no. 2, he’s the unindicted co-conspirator in the classified information case against Steve Rosen and Keith Weissman, respectively the former foreign policy chief and top Iran analyst for the American Israel Public Affairs Committee.
Count one in the August 2005 indictment includes meetings between Rosen and USGO-2 as an “overt act,” in which Satterfield – then second in charge at the State Department’s Middle East section – allegedly relayed classified information to Rosen, and which Rosen allegedly re-relayed to colleagues at AIPAC and to Israeli officials….
[Mod Note; In order to keep the FDL servers running smoothly and to avoid any potential copyright issues, please keep excerpts from articles to a few sentences in length and provide a link. Thank you.]
Behold – the birth of a new talking point!
Now to strangle the latest spin-zygote in its sordid little Rovian flask.
LibertyLee, you got one thing right. The majority of Americans want the war ended sooner than the fund cut-off provides for. In that narrow sense, you are correct: the majority of Americans prefer to end the Iraq war sooner than the House Resolution specifies.
The majority of Americans also want functioning government services, not shells of FEMA, the VA, the EPA, the FDA, and the DOJ hollowed out by years of partisan appointees from the Authoritarian Rovians (and the partisans from Reagan/Bush who also sought to destroy Federal restrains on megacorps’ power).
And Liberty Lee – with your deep and abiding concern for the majority the GOP keeps having to suppress when elections roll around – no doubt you’ll be pleased to know that only 35% of Americans identify with the violent, radical Authoritarians who seized control of the GOP and attempted the same with our Republic.
The failed Authoritarian cult won’t go away. It seems destined to become a small Deep South party defined by hating our Constitution, clinging to love of failed wars (Iraq and our Civil War), and burning with desire to start the next one. So long as they don’t have to fight it.
A perfect place for those who identify with General Lee.
While the rest of us defend and celebrate our liberty and our Republic, the rump Authoritarian party will continue to hate democracy and try to overthrow our Republic – the same way they took over the Southern Baptists and the GOP.
And we’ll kick the shit out of them whenever they try.
Just as Pelosi did today.
Must be hard for the traitors who celebrate armed insurrection upon America to tolerate – but I really give a flying fuck about the emotional comfort of the virulent racists who consider the traitor Lee a hero.
The problem with concern trolling, Liberty Lee, is that the catch bites.
As do your puported concerns.
Siun @ 49
Yeah, I was really torn about which way this vote should go… but in the end, as with so many things in politics, decided a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush… so to speak.
Or how does it go?… don’t let perfect be the enemy of the good?
This bill is FAR from perfect… but geez louise, we’ve been waiting for SOMETHING since January… and I really feared that if this didn’t float, then nothing would. Altho I definitely supported the Lee bill.
Now I hope that the Dems can continue to pressure the neo-convicts to get us out even sooner… at least it is a start, altho flawed.
conniptionfit @ 87
I should know better. My own family has been resistant for years. I keep saying I’m going to give it up but I keep coming back to it. It’s like an addiction. But I can stop at any time, really.
blub @ 44
someone posted this earlier-but i don’t think they’re all lie-bermans’ allies
Democrats voting against the measure:
John Barrow, Georgia
Dan Boren, Oklahoma
Lincoln Davis, Tennessee
Dennis Kucinich, Ohio
Barbara Lee, California
John Lewis, Georgia
Jim Marshall, Georgia
Jim Matheson, Utah
Mike McNulty, New York
Mike Michaud, Maine
Gene Taylor, Mississippi
Maxine Waters, California
Diane Watson, California
Lynn Woolsey, California
Republicans voting for it:
Wayne Gilchrest, Maryland
Walter Jones, North Carolina
The defense wants him (Pollack) on the stand.
Old News? MSNC reporting that Tony Snowjob will have surgery for something in his lower abdomen Monday…I know, I know, the jokes write themselves.
Will be away from WH 3-4 weeks.
I won’t wish him ill, or heavenly justice, because we are a cancer survivor family and understand the anxiety of such times. Just, that his good buddy Rush Limbaugh–the rightwing answer to The Iceman–shows him all the compassion and dignity he showed…John Edwards. Or has the small modicum of a heart to look himself in the mirror and be very ashamed.
Edwards ‘08
cc in nm … genuine question here: if *this* was the best we could get, how does it lead to better or pressure to get out, etc? I really cannot follow that logic.
We’ve just been shown that the only legislation we can get passed is a supplemental that gives Bush *more* than he asked for, authorizes the war for 18 more months, does not demand something as basic as congressional approval for war on Iran and then provides a massive loophole to allow permanent bases under the guise of leaving an undisclosed number of combat troops in Iraq past Sept 08 to fight al quaeda or whatever.
How does that lead to actual, real legislation that is stronger?
I support those that voted nay.
I think that lives mean more than political gamesmanship. I look forward to more investigations by Leahy, Waxman and Conyers, but war crimes are being perpetrated in our name as we speak.
The occupations must end and Iran needs to be taken off the table. NOW.
And even the whisper of nukes makes me want to puke.
1. We lost the war the day the looting occurred.
2. COIN (counterinsurgency) books suggest that the only successful COINs relate to special factors (i.e, Malay insurgents were ethnic Chinese, 10% of pop, and rest wouldn’t support them so they nearly starved), or Total War (your suggestion)–e.g., So. Africa, Chechnya, U.S. on Indians, many other examples. Otherwise the insurgents win. BTW, Total War isn’t always successful. It pretty much describes what the Soviets did in Afghanistan, with known results.
Now even, the neocons didn’t go for Total War yet–though they might wrt Iran.
dmac @ 94
Maxine Waters spent considerable time and effort campaigning against Joe Lieberman in the last election.
Prairie Sunshine @ 97
Rush appears to be incapable of feeling shame.
By the way, portia, it was a great smackdown!
When I saw the title of this post on my RSS feed, I knew Jane Hamsher had written it! YEA Jane!
tony snow presser on Cspan
GPB @ 33
I worked for Obey in the early 70’s, and I can assure you that that’s what he said away from the cameras/mikes.
That list of Democrats who voted against and Republicans for was posted at Josh Marshalls “Talking Points” website.
(March 22, 2007 — The exchange between Spector and Leahy at the Talking Points website is worth the watch. Leahy has had enough of the Bushshit!
Take what we can get, says Arlen. Check out this exchange this morning between Sens. Specter (R-PA) and Leahy (D-VT) on whether the senate Judiciary Committee should issue subpoenas.
baby steps…. baby steps
they can multi-task (congressional investigations) and chimpy’s house of cards is gonna crash loud
Siun @ 98
Siun, I think it’s as fundamental as changing the framing of your question. Not that this is the best that we can get. But that it is the first we can get. One small step for mankind…
I think those of us against this war need some very easy, short quips –
One, was already posted by way of explaining the end of the Vietnam War..
The Vietnam War was ended by Congress pulling the purse strings away from Nixon.
Support your troops. Stop the war by taking the Emperor’s money away.
There have been more deserters than US soldiers killed.
Bush wants money for bombs, but to hell with the wounded soldiers. They are turning on his ill conceived war.
Bombs are not toys for idiots from Texas.
TRex @ 62
Did he ever? Click on Part 4 first to see the old Tony at work. He’s since denied he ever did this particular program.
If I had to choose someone for the Dem prez in 2008 it would be either Gore or Lynn Woolsey. Gore/Edwards. Gore/Woolsey. Edwards/Woolsey. Or Woolsey/Edwards. I need to watch my fantasies. Lest they gain the upper hand.
lolo @ 105
thanks for the heads-up
Prairiesunshine-
One small step for mankind…. one giant fall for nitwits?
the points been made but I want to say it again
if we initiate articles of impeachment it doesn’t matter that there aren’t republicans on board right now
all that matters is the process, lies will be exposed, stealing will be exposed, buying law will be exposed, giving our treasure to their pals like haliburton will be exposed
stock in haliburton will be exposed
the sick fraternity known as the PNAC will be exposed
it will be almost impossible for any politicitian that expects re election to vote against impeachment
we must begin the process of accountability and these crimininals must be brought to the bar of justice
TRex @ 51
Same rage I feel when I see “Bush/Cheney” on a humvee!!
I’m starting to develop a thing for Nancy Pelosi, kind of like when some feminist bloggers were offering to have Patrick Fitzgerald’s baby, you know?
Anything I can do for you, Nancy?
Siun @ 97
I’ll just put in my $0.02 here. I think that in the end this won’t work. When it doesn’t work, it will, hopefully, be up to Congress to step up and do what will work. As the hopelessness of the Iraq situation sinks into the few remaining minds in America that are actually able to understand reality, that pressure will become greater.
Perhaps I’m too optimistic, but the alternative is that we spend three more years fighting this damn war and I’m not ready to give up.
Puesto @ 76
All taxation bills must arise in the House of Representatives. Spending can originate in either House of Congress. (Article I, Section 7:
BC
hawaiilaw @
34
Careful. Griles is Mr. Fall Guy #3 (after Libby and Sampson). He will serve a very light sentence, half of it at home doing the gardening, and he doesn’t have to cooperate with the ongoing investigation. Even though his now girlfriend is the kingpin of a plot to sell taxpayer gas at reduced rates, for kickbacks to her own little pocketbook.
This plea deal is NOT a good thing, IMO.
“Groupthink” WaPo. Wonder why WaPo wanted Nixon gone?
Siun @ 99
My thinking is that at least it gets the issue out on the table… as someone else mentioned, if the Senate doesn’t pass it, or the Idiot vetoes it, it goes back for re-writing, and maybe congress will have grown some balls by then as the concept of *truly* exiting Iraq grows.
As I said, it’s not perfect, but let me as you something genuinely…
How would Lee’s bill not passing have been better?
emptywheel @ 120
WHO is the USA in charge of this “prosecution”?
Of all the Democrats, I’d have to say that Lynn Woolsey and Al Gore are the ones closest to me.
Prairie Sunshine @ 97
I was thinking he looked a little gaunt in the last couple of days. I don’t like his politics and the other day he sounded like he didn’t like his politics himself. It still makes me very sad when I hear about someone’s tragic health issues and I can’t stand to see anyone suffer. In 100 years – there (hopefully) will be all new people – so while living this precious brief life, why spend it promoting and supporting war and the suffering of others. It makes no sense at all.
Slothrop @ 119
I’m about the same age as Nancy Pelosi, and if she’s anything like me, you can fix her meals, carry her bag, make sure her edevices are charged, etc. Leave the baby thing to her children–they seem to be very good at it.
Slothrop @ 118
We’re all suckers for foot massage. Hope I haven’t given away one of our deep dark secrets.
twolf1 @ 70
…shades of Armageddon!
Siun @ 79
I’m in complete agreement with you, but I am also a chess player, and I also did the triple jump, and kicked field goals, my analogy was meant quite purposefully, SOMETIMES you have to take an extra little step because it is NECESSARY, not because you choose to do so.
If I had my way about it, we IMMEDIATELY would redeploy ALL WILLING troops to Afghanistan and Darfur, but let those who want to come home to do so NOW.
But I also know that if I move my chess pieces according to my own game plan, in complete disregard for what my adversary is doing, it is nbothing more than ignorant hubris, and I mighT just lose the whole game.
So I stand by my observation, and I implore my fellow progressives to consider Pelosi’s work as monumental, not insufficient.
We can’t all be expected to walk in lock-step like the R’s have done, so I don’t hold anything against those who remain unconvinced, but pragmatism is a word you all need to look up, it defines this moment.
Just one last comment on this issue; if you trash Pelosi for not being liberal enough, you are ignoring the incredible progress we have made in terms of oversight since the 110th was seated.
It has been less than 90 days, after 6 years of unltimate corruption, if you can’t see the progress we have made, you are simply blinded by ideology.
While I absolutely share your ideology, I also refuse to let it blind me to this obvious change in the nature of DC.
And I often wonder if there are members among the uber-left, like those who infiltrated Nader’s organization, who are not sincere in their criticism, and they drag a lot of honest liberals down a primrose path of complaint that is only counter-productive to the future of these advances in oversight and representation.
Cujo … guess I just don’t see the logic … when I negotiate fees with clients, I ask for more than I want and bargain down …. this is asking for way less, expecting to get a no, and then thinking client will come back and offer double.
not trying to be difficult here … just feeling mighty heartsick
this “one small step for mankind” certainly leaves Iraqis out of the picture
the point being, George can’t spend a DIME unless Congress lets him. They legislate. He executes. With oversight (finally).
Jane Hamsher @
7
Hey, I’ll let you know when I figure out how to mount my laptop on the treadmill. Maybe that’ll make the walk less tedious.
Gotta’ keep them lymphatic fluids moving, though.
Jane Hamsher @
7
Cranky is good. Cranky means you’re fighting.
Cranky is Elizabeth Edwards elegantly doing a Benihana chef move on a troll online, then going off energized to get her medicine.
I like cranky. :-)
Now that he’s finished his Grecian Hair Formula for Men treatment, he needs to dye his eyebwors & eyelashes dark. That’s why he looks so weird.
(brb … work calls for a few)
But seriously there are women who are doing amazing things that need more support. I wrote about the total lack of food at Plamehouse but it goes beyond that. Watching to make sure that people don’t leave their cell phones behind. Providing transportation. Being there to take notes and make routine phone calls.
I observe a sharp gender difference in willingness to hire a personal assistant. We superwomen feel that we can handle everything, and usually that’s right. But men in similar circumstances would hire a PA and delegate lots of stuff, to preserve their time and energy for higher matters.
I don’t have the answer, just the sociological observation.
Back from my walk. My basketball privileges restored once again for the night.
Tyrants.
I’m sorry. Mother always said “If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all”. So I don’t have anything to say about Mr. Snows’ health. Except this: Isn’t it a wonderful and lucky thing that he has such a terrific GOVERNMENT healthcare plan?
ET—
Seriously is Benson running???
TRex @ 52
I made my own PELOSI 2007 sticker yesterday. I’m putting it in my rear window next to my brand-new BENSON 2008 sticker after the current snow storm ends. I LOVE to see the expressions of these guys who can’t compute all that female support sitting right above a Veterans’ licence plate.
This from americablog:
The miltary regs forbid Bush using our troops as political props
All the details at http://americablog.blogspot.co…..g-our.html
cc in nm @ 123
Or as more Senate Republicans realize that they can’t back the war and win in 2008.
Remember, 2006 was supposed to be GOOD for Senate Republicans. They had far fewer seats to defend than the Democrats did.
And they lost the Senate anyway.
2008 is much, much worse for them: Far more Republican-held Senate seats are in play. The temptation to break from Bush and Rove will only grow with time, and the life ring of a funded and sensible withdrawal will look ever-more appealing.
Exactly.
The GOP has a talking point about the how the “wrong ” message will be sent if we pull the troops out of Iraq. The wrong message was sent already to the world when we let Ossama get away into Pakistan. The message we sent to our enemies is that if you have nukes we will forget our dead. The wrong message was sent when we invaded Iraq a SECULAR MUSLIM COUNTRY that has as much to do with Al Queida as Firedoglake has to do with the fundeMENTAList christian right (they are both Arabs and we’re both Americans but we all really don’t get along). The wrong message was sent when our corrupt president proved his incompetence by being UNABLE to get control of Iraq’s oil. I mean come on a Texas oil man letting the control/deed to Iraq’s oil slip from his hands? This is g.w’s passion folks the thing he cares about most to fail so horribly at the thing you care about the most is enough to render the judgment on his life as a failure. So failure is the message STAYING IN IRAQ SENDS TO THE WORLD. Its up to our next President to redeem/restore our reputation.
Kathleen @ 121
The WaPo was SO different then [1974]: Katherine Graham as publisher, Ben Bradlee as editor, many decent reporters and editorial writers.
Now it’s just birdcage liner. Yesterday they very efficiently had Novak (”Was she covert”), Broder, George Will & Krauthammer all on the same page. Don’t even have to look; just thrown the thing away. (Eugene Robinson still writes there & is quite good, but mostly, bleech.]
This is sweet. I’m on a temp assignment, boring, my boss just told me to surf the net for the rest of the afternoon!!!
eCAHNomics @ 140
He’s done it forevah though!
(Jane — thanks for the giggle from the delightful title!)
Obey was a thing of beauty this a.m. Inspired me to phone my rep, the Grand Wingnut of them all, Michele Bachmann. (Usually the very thought makes me weak. Not to mention dispirited.)
I put on my best suburban mom voice and told the sweet young thing on the phone that I’d been watching and was so pleased to see such common sense. Then told her what I wanted Hot Mrs. Bachmann to do. Er, how to vote.
Anybody noticed that Kyle looks like a young Rove?
Lots of anger today, from Bush and those angry at his war.. Murtha took every question from Blitzer and used it to blame Bush. Guess the prez won’t be invited to the next Demo retreat.
Jane Hamsher @ 137
Only the best kind of tyranny for you, Jane.
Murtha replay on CSPAN now…
Siun @ 129
Analogies can be perilous logically. In your analogy, you have something your client wants, and therefore some power in negotiation. Over time, the client may find other potential vendors/servers, in which case your power diminishes and the price lowers. In this case, Pelosi (and Reid) don’t have the power they need to pass the sort of bill they ought to pass. So, we get this instead. The pressure to do something useful will increase over time, which, to return to your analogy, will raise the price. It’s as if you were later able to say “My expenses have gone up in the meantime, here’s the new fee schedule.”
I hope I haven’t created a marketing monster here …
egregious @ 136
I think it’s the female version of the men’s “don’t ask for directions/read instructions” taboo: It’s all something that as women we feel we should do for ourselves and feel ashamed when we don’t/can’t.
Jane Hamsher @ 137
Who are you rooting for, Jane?
angie @ 146
Jane Hamsher @ 137
As in watching NCAA, or as in one-on-one vs Kobe? I think he has a reach advantage.
the other day on the radio, bill richardson said the iraqis should have a vote on whether they want us to stay or to go, said that was one thing that hadn’t been done yet……….paraphrased
and i don’t necessarily agree that all those who enter here brainwashed and uninformed are trolls, just brainwashed and uninformed…and obviously looking for something they don’t have, you can tell by their tone……..
i can think of one that genuinely wanted to engage in intelligent recourse at the end of the libby trial…i liked some of his points….he pops in here and there, and admitted he was influenced by all…….where you gonna go if you’re a repub and start to have questions? well, you’re gonna come here……convert one mind at a time if you can, with open arms, if they’re really just a troll, it’ll show when they get mean instead of using discussion and exchange of ideas…..
JGabriel @ 45
Thanks for cleaning this up JGabriel ;-)
LibertyLee,
I’m sure you’re very informed, watching cable news (Faux) and reading all the news editorials (WSJ, Compost) but there are a few things you’ve stated that are incorrect.
1) Whatever you implied in your first statement is too ambiguous to even respond to.
2) Agreed
3) True statement; but your definition of “Commander-in-Chief” is far different from that which was common in the 18th century. Commander-in-Chief was a temporary appellation to only be used in times of DECLARED war, and as I’m sure you know the AUMF is sadly deficient in this regard. I suggest you google George Mason and Elbridge Gerry in their opposition to the war making powers at the constitutional convention and what was actually agreed upon, or better go to your local library and and actually read the notes of James Madison.
You also may want to read up on Charles the 1st and what led to his downfall and why he was on the minds of those like George Mason and Patrick Henry.
I could go on with this but I won’t right now
4) I’m sad to say this is completely mistaken as the Congress is to set the rules regarding the military: example
5) Ambiguous
Thanks for playing, LibertyLee
Topanga-lib @
12
That’s not possible. ;o)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 125
OKK – I know Rep Woolsey slightly, she and my ex attended the same church, and while she is a lovely person whose heart is certainly in the right place, I’m not sure that she has the background or experience to be President or VP; that said neither does the current one.
Jane Hamsher @ 138
UCLA!
twolf1 @ 149
Murtha was awesome. Best I’ve seen him. He got a standing O when done. Great debate today in the House.
emptywheel @ 121
Not to mention, look at all the other charges they dropped.
apologies, Jane. (shamefaced)
mauimom @
143
Wapo never covered the Israeli Palestinian issue fairly. Ever. They were really not that different then just appeared to be via the Watergate smear.
While the Congress is working better, lets start cutting off some of the funds for the White House and all of its pathetic junkets. Bush is acting more like a busy Miss America opening a new shopping mall every day with our troops as backdrops for his pathetically failed policies. Just what does a trip to get him out of Washington cost so the real President Cheney can do his dirty work? I want a figure from them! And I want them put on an allowance and have to ask in writing for permission for a trip that means nothing but an opportunity to get President pissy Pants out of town.
Scarecrow @
148
Yeah Murtha was pretty on fire, huh? That was a good clip. He wasn’t taking any lip from either Codpiece or the Beard.
Who ever named it the ComPost was right on
I think this is the tipping point for Shrub (although how I wish I had a nickle for everytime I’ve thought that)
If not the producers the line reporters can no longer spout the gooper line with a straight face. And they are just pissing off Democrats and they angrier we get the worse off they will be –they will be down to Patrick McHenry Moron NC as their only safe seat.
Pelosi for President 2007!!!
Now, all we have to do is convince 20 GOP Senators that the only way to save the Republican Party is to make Bush/Cheney walk the plank — which has the added benefit of being true.
Second, we need to whisper that nothing would screw up the Democratic Presidential Primary more than throwing a San Francisco Liberal Grandma in the mix as an unelected incumbent President.
Pelosi for President, by the 4th of July!!!
eCAHNomics @ 90
Well, I don’t advocate trying to respond directly; something that’s so ludicrously wrong can’t be handled logic, only derision.
“I blame Bush and the other leaders who got us into this disaster. Can anyone who loves their country possibly support a president who has wasted half a trillion dollars and three thousand lives on a military project that has done nothing to make our country safer? Or do you think it’s more important never to question the president or fight to change his policies, no matter how much damage you think he’s doing?”
Siun says @ 73:
If we don’t look at reality, our future strategy will be screwed.
*****
But the Dems under Pelosi’s leadership did look at reality and decided
that 18 months is better than never-ending.
“Compromise is the art of the possible”
said Bismarck
and while I completely hold with the high moral principles of the 14 opponents, I also know that perfectionism causes terminal paralysis or, as someone recently put it:
the best is the enemy of the good.
Dems need to make it crystal clear to the American people that we aren’t going to get out of Iraq with Republicans in the White House AND in large minority in Congress. So regardless of who wins the Presidency in 2008 (which could easily be a Republican if Hillary is the Dem nominee), we need to get rid of a whole lot of Republicans in the House and Senate. Nancy is playing with the cards she was dealt: a warmonger in the White House, slim majorities in Congress (slim being not veto-proof), and the power of the purse. The AUMF took away the power to declare war (or at least rendered it moot). I think she’s doing great. Baby steps, folks. These are baby steps. And only the first few. I know it’s hard to be patient when men and women are dying in Iraq. But this is the hand we have right now. I, for one, am glad Nancy is in the game.
Lynn Wolsey is my member of Congress and while she is a consistent liberal vote and a lovely person she does nothing to provide leadership in the district and does nothing but the minimum to help the district. I find her position today annoying -she should have voted for it and spoken out to say she really wanted more. You can count on her vote but after that she is a big blob
not many democrats give a fuck about Iraqis either
You could be right, but this is one American who believes EVERY single death in Iraq is tragic beyond belief. The Iraqi people who’ve been killed are no less precious to their family and friends as our own American soldiers are to theirs. Senseless death, no matter where they live or the color of skin is still tragic.
petedownunder @ 159
I understand what you’re telling me. I was mostly speaking philosophically. But I’ll take Gore or Woolsey over Senator Clinton for prez. Perhaps I’m just an idealist. Whatever that means. ;0
That explains a lot. I listened to Graham’s bio on tape & wondered how she could, with all those hi falutin connections, take the right side in Watergate. Thanks for pointing me n the right direction–exception that proves the rule.
New thread.
Pach up your bags and head upstairs for Te Presidento El Mocoso Ruben Navarrette Jr
Thanks Pachacutec!
Please don’t think Snow’s upcoming surgery is a scapegoat.
What’s to stop him from attaching a signing statement voiding the mandatory end date?
What is the name of the dead reporter at the WaPo that the F.B.I was so interested in looking at his notes and his records?
Scarecrow @ 159
Wow what a man. Now the jackass Jerry Lewis R CA. What a idiot
Murtha thundering in the House:
“We live on this earth to make a difference. We need to bring our troops home.”
… We cannot keep sending them to Iraq without the right equipment and sufficient rest in between tours [not verbatim I don’t transcribe well when I’m crying]
Rare and overwhelming applause in the House of Representatives. Truly an emotional moment.
Judging from many posts here, most see Speaker Pelosi’s strong push and win in the House as long overdue success.Couldn’t agree more. How about considering another strong woman, Hillary Clinton for the top job in 2008? There’s so much chatter over the last 14 years about her ‘baggage”, that I submit that most of it is a myth. We have over 20 months to study candidates and listen to their own words and positions. Just keep an open mind about the dynamics of a new force to explode the status quo. We must think as individuals and vote for a winner to leave the Republicans in the dust. Can’t we all just get along again?
Alice B @ 162
How about we start with the Office of the Vice President? He doesn’t have much to do over there, and his real job is breaking ties in the Senate. What does he need 25 staff people for?
kathleen @ 179
Art Buchwald?
Jo-Ann @ 182
Hillary is Bushlite. I just don’t trust her.
JEP @ 128
In a fight you throw a punch and then try and Deny your opponet a move against yourself while you throw your next punch. Your movment is dictated by your opponts move. It’s like dancing only instead of moving with a partner to have fun. You move against them to harm them. I like your sense of Strategy dude!
dakine01 @
80
Gotcha…
LS @ 184
Jack Anderson.
Jason @ 176
No no, it is for real. As John Roberts on CNN was concerned for Liz Edwards, and said last night:
See I don’t think 3 to 4 weeks recovery he is planning is good enough. I think he should take 3 to 4 months, and if that, consider not coming back to the rigors of politics. There is more to life outside the beltway, you know.
LS @ 184
No, Jack Anderson
TiredFed @ 183
I read that he has a staff of 88! And he refuses to reveal who they are or what they do.
OKK,
What did you say?
tbsa @ 170
I could not agree more. All of these deaths are our fault. The sooner we stop this war, the better.
egregious @ 181
I saw it live this morning and have to say I haven’t been so proud in the last 6 years. I’ve been waiting for someone to stand up and swat down the pathetic line from the republic party. Murtha, did a fantastic job.
Cujo359 @
35
A senators ability to recommend USA appointments is a prized spoil of office. Appointments, like influence and access, are tradegoods. Senators of any stripe will never give up this valuable bit of tradegoods.
At WaPo
A Chilling FBI Fishing Expedition
By Mark Feldstein
Saturday, April 29, 2006
In an earlier life I spent 20 years as an investigative reporter, getting subpoenaed and sued in the United States, and censored and physically harassed in other parts of the globe. But when I switched careers to academia, I thought such scrapes would come to an end. I was wrong.
On March 3 two FBI agents showed up at my home, flashing their badges and demanding to see 25-year-old documents that I have been reading as part of my research for a book I’m writing about Jack Anderson, the crusading investigative columnist who died in December.
I was surprised, to put it mildly, by the FBI’s sudden interest in journalism history. I asked what crimes the agents were investigating.
“Violations of the Espionage Act,” was the response. The Espionage Act dates to 1917 and was used to imprison dissidents who opposed World War I.
Siun @
99
Patience is virtue.
Read the full legislation, it has complicated language to stump Shrub, but I am sure the deviants in his inner circle understand that it is the start of a checkmate and they cannot avoid it.
The “18 months” is the maximum, not the minimum, which itself is a smackdown to his “endless occupation”. And now, I’m thinking Gore/Pelosi ‘08 has a nice ring to it, but I would prefer her remaining as House Leader.
I consider myself a feminist. But I don’t want Hillary as President. I trust her about as much as the three stooges: Bushie, Cheney & Gonzo. And I don’t want someone who is still in favor of this war and cannot admit a mistake when she made one — that’s what we have in office now.
Let’s make the 1st woman president someone we can be proud of like Pelosi as Speaker…
But I may have to get a Hillary bumper sticker just for the tease effect on the highway.
Jo-Ann @ 179
no, no and no. Al Gore. Accept no substitutes.
Just one thought about impeachment; the Senate determines the final outcome, but the House issues the articles of Impeachment, and in the process, they can get to the bottom of all the “information” we yearn to uncover.
Whether Bush/Cheney actually get BOOSTED is secondary to whether we uncover their misdeeds, so it can never happen again.
While most of us would want those transgressions to lead to removal, it isn’t likely considering the current make-up of the Senate, which will no doubt change in 08′, but for now the twoo-thirds we need just isn’t there. So that leaves us with what the Reps can accomplish, adn anyone who thinks the threat of impeachment from the house wouldn’t make Bush buckle doesn’t know how badly he wants to go into history without a Clintonesque asterisk attached to his name.
Removal from office is not likely (unless the truth comes out that even Senate R’s must asknowledge as high crimes, which is actually something worth hoping for) but it is the House that initiates the impeachment process.
We have less than two years before W goes back to the ranch, if you think removal from office is the only goal worth reaching for, you disregard the fact that impeachment itself represents ultimate failure to someone like W (his daddy NEVER got impeached) and he is much more likely to bend to Democratic majority demands if he perceives his name will go down in history with an impeachment asterisk attached.
Petrocelli @ 197
Not to mention it will be bush who vetos the funding of the troops.
brendancalling @
26
Sal’s is the bomb!!!!!
Oklahoma kiddo @
48
OKiddo! You are in a good mood today!
mauimom @
144
For some reason, they do still seem to tolerate Froomkin although they place a lot of obstacles sometimes…
pachelbelle @ 188
could be. I’m only counting the ones that he gets $ for from the OVP appropriation. He probably has a bunch more over at the Senate. So he can break tie votes. Damn.
This whole dialog on Pelosi, Hillary, Feinstien, Boxer… [Mrs..] Edwards is just great, great stuff! Really!
Nothing makes these authoritarians look more stupid, nor show their ass more when a strong, female leader lets them have a sound-bite or two right in the juevos…
Americans watching this can see their authoritarian spirit in all its ugliness.. The only women Bush has around him — well, hell, the only men for that matter — are lap dogs and supplicants!
Go, girls, go! Pelosi has been on my most admired list ever since she got the leadership post long before the Nov. 2006 elections.
She is just great. And, it makes stupid, look stupider when he has to debate her on sound-bites.
Why didn’t we think of this before? Hmmm..
Just a drive-by but caught the bottom few and JEP @ 201 is absolutely on the money.
Jo-Ann @
182
Who isn’t getting along?
Cujo359 @ 35
HotFlash @ 193
Nevertheless, that’s how things are supposed to work. I can’t remember the exact quote, but John Adams once remarked that he didn’t write the Constitution assuming the people who ran the government were angels. He assumed that they would all be working in their own self-interest. Divided power is power that is harder for one individual to abuse.
JEP @ 198
and the House (or Senate) can hold Rove in contempt until the current terms ends (when they adjourn in late 2008)! if nothing else, at least it would keep him out of trouble.
lolo @
185
If HRC is so great, why did she cave and vote for the war. While I always point out that Obama, Gore, Feingold and Jim Webb thought it would be a clusterfuck from the beginning, lets not forget Madame Speaker voted against the clusterfuck as well. The DLC is the pro-war edge of the Democratic party. I can never vote for someone who puts her own political career ahead of the country, especially in such a serious matter as this. Are you telling me that Pelosi, Obama, Gore, Feingold and Webb had any more information then HRC had? Hell, Webb and Obama weren’t even in federal government at the time and yet they knew.
JEP @
60
No, I think what you have here is a display of Mme Speaker’s genius. The *center* voted for the bill, the *extreme* rights and lefts did not, for different reasons. She was able to get enough support from R’s to allow the invested anti-war reps to vote with their conscience and their constituents wishes. Now, that contingent will continue to drag the House to their view.
Pelosi is a master strategist. My hat is off.
The important part of Hillary’s image is that “I don’t trust her” is exactly what many voters are thinking and have thought. I don’t know if she is “Bush Lite” but as John Cougar Melloncamp said;
“You must stand for something, or you will fall for everything..” [paraphrased from this old memory]
Americans know she just cannot be trusted, and does not have a steadfast, simple, articulate position. Quintessential politician, and American’s are sick and tired of that!
The DLC is a tired, old image. There is a fight going on with these greedy, authoritarian right wing, religious nuts — who, by the way, only use religion as a tool for power — who need to be FOUGHT, and FOUGHT hard. Not “gumbed to death” like bland Hillary likes to do.
Hillary cannot hold a candle to the likes of, say, Pelosi and Murtha. THERE is passion.
lolo @ 185
Ditto… DITTo!!
I Love Jane Hamsher @ 212
Dear Jane,
I love your way with words. But I’m wondering, how did a ‘girl’ like you, full of sunshine, optimism, youthful innocence and a general love of the left AND the right, ever make a movie like Natural Born Killers?
Puesto @ 214
Errm, that would be Aaron Tippin ;-)
Jo-Ann @ 182
You know what — anybody can post just about anything here — but the more I look at this post, the more I suspect it was typed on a computer at a campaign headquarters.
“I submit…”
Who talks like that?
Blub @
74
I’m working my way down the thread, apologies if this has been posted before. Larry Johnson, Ray McGovern and several other former intelligence professionals have been offering intelligence analyses as Open Letters. This one, called First Stop the Bleeding, is addressed to Mme Speaker and in it they endorese Rep Barbara Lee’s proposal.
Excerpt:
LibertyLee @
31
Some people don’t understand the title “Commander in Chief”. Notice first it isn’t spelled the same way as “dictator”. Second, notice the commander can recognize when we’re in immediate danger and responds but when there’s a greater long-term threat he has to have approval of Congress to go to war. Then, when we’re at war he Commands (usually with the military advice of many advisors).
Commander is not equal to Dictator. Got it?
If Congress decides there shall be no more war, then that’s it. It’s their decision whether to fund a war effort. Of course, their legislation takes the signature of the President too. But, if they don’t pass legislation, then the President can’t go ahead and spend money because, as I reminded above, he is NOT a Dictator.
If Bush tries to use deficit spending to continue the war he should be tried for treason and sent to some dark dank cell in some far-away South American country or maybe Kazakhstan.
He is not now, nor has he ever been the Dictator in Chief. No matter how much he wanted to become that when he said, (paraphrasing) American would be a much easier place if it were a dictatorship…
Hey, folks, I’m an Edwards supporter. But I also have respect for just one thing about Ronald Reagan, and that was that he refused to trash his fellow Republicans.
All this back and forth trash-talk between the potential Democratic candidates’ campaign staffers only makes us look like we are so divided that we can not make up our minds.
The fact is, the Democrats in 2008 will have one of the most qualified lists of potential candidates in our political history, and if all these candidates, and those of us who support them, were willing to promise each other a modicum of Reaganeaque respect, it will make the inevitable schism in the Republican party look just like the ideological split it really is.
So keep that in mind, when you attack or support any given candidate, it makes all the sense in the world to tell us why you support your choice of candidates, but it only looks bad when you tellus why we shouldn’t support another candidate.
I always suspect the most vehement anti-candidates, because sometimes they are actually working for the Republicans to try to divide the Democrats into factions.
Lincoln staffed his cabinet with political adversaries, for one very good reason that still holds true today: they tend to be the most qualified people in the world for the positions they are appointed to.
When you start appointing political allies, as rewards for their loyalty, to positions of power in the cabinet or elsewhere, we get the Gonzales’ and the Miers’ and the Griffins.
With the exception of maybe Texas’ Ron Paul, I have yet to find a Republican I could vote for, but I have a great deal of pride and confidence in EVERY Democrat on the event horizon, and intend to vote willingly for whichever one of them wins the primaries.
Hotflash …. thank you for that link!
Glad to see that at least some like McGovern and Johnson continue to speak up.
let us know how soon you are expecting to receive your Nigerian inheritance. [the scam]
And some in this administration are going to get their NIGERAN* inheritance. [pushback from scamming us into a war of aggression]
Did I mention the Geneva Conventions?
*Difference between Nigeria and Niger.
portia.vz @
82
I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing to engage the trolls. These are the questions that we will have to answer from our friends, rellies and co-workers, it’s nice to have a bit of preparation. Every martial artist knows the value of a good punching bag. And it’s fun!
Nice work pachelbelle, kirk murphy and portia, it was lovely and inspiring to watch you guys in action.
Puesto @
55
Without Gore in the race the issue of a ticket does arise. I think Richardson of New Mexico might be a good choice. Who are the obvious candidates for VP, regardless of whom the prez candidate is?
Kitt @
158
Well…..he could put on high heels to look taller. woooeeeeeiiiieee!
HotFlash @ 204
I do not like Hillary’s vote for the war resolution. I did not like her stance on Iran a year ago (she has changed her tune on this issue).
One thing for sure Hillary will make sure our nation gets a national health care coverage plan once and for all. She is not talking about this issue much due to the pounding she received during her husbands adminstration. She will make sure there is National Health care and that is HUGE!
Slothrop @ 218
Slothrop@218
I’m as much of a political junkie as the rest of you. Using the word “submit” in proposing a point of view shouldn’t be a hanging offense. I know that we’re involved in what has become a blood sport, but I’m so tired of Dems, progressives and liberals eating our own. The McCalls fighting the Hatfields will do our push forward no good at all.
Kathleen @ 204: You have far more faith in Clinton on health care than I do. So far, she’s playing this one pretty cautiously, and has recently stated that she wanted to have Universal Health Care by the end of her second term. That’s 10 years.
From what I’ve read, Edwards has the most aggressive plan for UHC, with a bridge to single payer, and he’s laid it out in some detail. Obama hasn’t laid out a plan, but has said we should have UHC by end of the next president’s first term. Kucinich’s name is already attached to the Conyers-Kucinich bill for single payer. Don’t know where that stands.
Oops, typo. Meant Kathleen @ 227. Had 204 in mind because I got a giggle out of Oklahoma’s Kiddo’s “endorsement” of Hillary today.
kathleen @
227
Sorry Kathleen. Hilary’s a moral lightweight & rank opportunist & not fit to lead. Obama can get you your healthcare as well as she can. She is not fit to lead.
Re: Hillary — with her stance on staying in Iraq, I can’t, in good conscience, vote for her. Which is a pity…
I hope you don’t construe this statement as bashing HRC, since it isn’t meant that way.
Brisingamen @
232
Why apologize? People like Murtha, Obama, Nancy P — reveal Hilary for what she is…
Siun @ 99
Siun @ 222
Hi Siun,
You’re welcome. Larry in that article says it is the 7th they have done, I am hunting around for the previous ones. What a valuable resource, intel analysis *better than the WH gets*. I want to find out a lot more about what they think is the proper course of action since we have made such an effing mess in the world.
wrt the not-good-enough-but-passed bill, one of the things it is good for is to give us an opportunity to support the reps who are getting better about this sort of thing. Send ‘em $5 everytime they do something good, it’s like a doggie treat. Eventually they will jump through that hoop.
Another thing is that it can reassure the reps that the world will not come to an end if they vote against the war and against Bush. I think there are a lot of pressures on reps that we don’t understand. I am *not* excusing them, since I don’t thinbk it’s principles or even funding, it’s blackmail. Mama Nancy has to let them know that going with R’s is certain death, but if they throw themselves on her mercy she might be able to save them a little bit.
What do I mean by blackmail? Probably just that. I khave no knowledge just hunches. For instance, you’re a press type. Didja ever wonder why Jannon/Guckert was so easy to rumble? As if they wanted someone to see him and know who he was? I have a nasty mind, I put it together with child prostitution rings. Was there anyone on either side of the aisle who made any unexpected concession around that time? I hope someday to hear what that was all about.
americanvoices@mail.house.gov
Nancy’s e-mail for out-of-state constituents
I just sent her a GO GIRL! We’ve got to ‘have her back’ on this. It’s tremendous what she’s done today. She herded cats!
David Brooks on the News Hour, characterizing Bush’s fight with Congress over allowing his aides to testify, and the possibility of Congress issuing subpoenas:
“When two guys fight over a woman, it’s the fight they want, not the woman.”
The Times pays this guy a million a year?
JEP @
201
Also consider that the Senate would not get the Articles of Impeachment for another 10 – 12 months, smack dab midst an election that the tag Republican doesn’t bring much credit and hitching a goodly number of Republican seats at risk to a sinking “are-busted” administration, voting against impeachment isn’t in the best interest of most seeking re-election. I wouldn’t be surprised if at least 80% were for impeachment. The reputation of this administration is just not going to improve as information is gained by the public. Just a thought. All the best……
Always reward good behavior, If you will send obey a thank you note or call. Let him know (even if you don’t live in his district) you would be proud to send him a bit of money for this. Make your senators and congressmen work for every donation and every thank you note. Even if you won’t send money, a simple thanks never hurts.
EH? You got into a country, overthrow the leader, disband the army, trash the civil service and ’shock and awe’ the populace and call it a baby-sitting service?
What is wrong with this picture?