Jane on fire!

Thank you.

second?

Jane, EPU’d but important…
If you’re still around – I discovered what my “billing” problem was and it has nothing to do with FDL. A new feature of quicken got slick and started renaming all of my paypal charges to FDL. (I found the feature and turned that #$%@# feature off).

Michael Moore said it best: Clinton is the best Republican* president we’ve ever had.

When viewing him from that perspective, his seeming inconsistencies don’t seem so inconsistent anymore.

*Republican in the old-fashioned sense of fiscally conservative, socially liberal, corporate-friendly, etc.

“rake in some key sector of cash” – you got that right Jane. Great how you can “say things” without actually saying them, if you get what I mean.

I also become really “hinky” when faced with the argument that women should support Hillary simply because she’s a woman. I’d love to see a woman president, but she to get my money and shoe leather, she’s got to be committed to what’s important to me. Not simply have 2 x chromosomes.

Thank you, Jane.

The Big Dog can only skate so far on his past “good deeds,” and he’s gone out over the thin ice now.

Well, it was a lovely lunch — but I think that had a lot to do with the fabu Southern food and baked sweet potato fries and the gorgeous view of downtown from the office. But maybe that’s just me. *g*

Why is it so hard to understand that when we say the word “accountability,” that we really, really mean it for everyone?

Jane,

Trust you are doing well.

The Clintons are nothing but opportunistic, triangulating (translation:sell out working folks) DINO’s, and we can do better.

One need look no further for what America needs than to compare/contrast the Clintons to the Edwards.

For a guy with supposedly top notch political instincts, the Big Dog sure f–ked up this time. How could he have been so blinded into thinking that Smirk was telling the truth. Did he really think Captain Codpiece was being serious about the whole compassionate conservatism thing? Is he so enmeshed into the DLC thing he didn’t realize what Lamont and the challenge to Holy Joe was all about? Has Rahm been whispering into his ear too much? Does he not see how much anti-war sentiment there is out there? I think Bill has, in some ways, become more out of touch the longer he’s out of office.

Zee @
6

I also become really “hinky” when faced with the argument that women should support Hillary simply because she’s a woman. I’d love to see a woman president, but she to get my money and shoe leather, she’s got to be committed to what’s important to me. Not simply have 2 x chromosomes.

Agreed to vote for or against her because she is a woman is just sexism.

Oh, and amen, Jane.

But the fact is that Hillary has yet to take a real leadership position in challenging this president — has she ever really challenged this administration on its abuse of power in a meaningful way?

perfect and I am tres hinky and ticked off about so many dems taking Iran off the table.

With what military do they propose to attack? With nukes again? Perish the thought and damn the deed. We are close to pariah status already.

grrr.

Christy,

Next time you’re in the Carolinas, stop by and I’ll grill you a BBQ pork, with black-eyed peas, turnip greens and sweet tea.

Cooked by a real Democrat.

I have to tell you my Dog Jake is just don’t trust those Clinton’s.
He’d never enter a pond to swim with them for fear of some
underwater gator getting him. Make no bones about it,with Hillary
you’d be getting Republican bones in a Democratric dress.
About Bubba, Jake can be charmed but in the end he’d walk away
from Bill’s bscuits. There’s no integrity to them.

don’t know what “hinky” means…..but I don’t like Hillary. Used to…..respected her for her dignity in the face of Bill’s f****g around, and for making a political career of her own.
But when I hear her talk now, I can’t stand her……she may not be a Stepford wife, but she’s sure as hell a Stepford candidate. There is not an ounce of true conviction or sincerity in anything she says.

Another 2 bit draft dodger jes like georgie. Think his slick wife is any different? Yes. She’s more hypocritical.

Few of the “major” candidates for the Democratic nomination for President really do much to inspire me. Hillary least of all. I’m not especially impressed with Obama either. Rocky Anderson has a lot of potential; too bad nobody knows who he is (including me before last night). I wish Russ Feingold would run.

Let me get my Clinton creds out of the way. I voted for former President Clinton twice. And there was a time I would have walked through fire for Senator Clinton. No more. I am livid with Ms. Clinton’s hawkish views on Iraq and the Middle East in general. And I am still smarting from the Clinton’s behavoir toward Ned Lamont. Not to mention the Clinton’s coziness with Bush and other stalwart Republicans like Gingrich. Good post JH. Of course I realize I’m being presumptuous. You don’t need me to tell you that.

So, what will it take to convince Al to run?

Christy Hardin Smith @
8

Well, it was a lovely lunch — but I think that had a lot to do with the fabu Southern food and baked sweet potato fries and the gorgeous view of downtown from the office. But maybe that’s just me. *g*

Why is it so hard to understand that when we say the word “accountability,” that we really, really mean it for everyone?

The food was damn good, that’s fer sure.

Eli @ 19

So, what will it take to convince Al to run?

Did anyone ask him yet? Maybe that would do it.

I Love Jane Hamsher @
10

For a guy with supposedly top notch political instincts, the Big Dog sure f–ked up this time. How could he have been so blinded into thinking that Smirk was telling the truth. Did he really think Captain Codpiece was being serious about the whole compassionate conservatism thing? Is he so enmeshed into the DLC thing he didn’t realize what Lamont and the challenge to Holy Joe was all about? Has Rahm been whispering into his ear too much? Does he not see how much anti-war sentiment there is out there? I think Bill has, in some ways, become more out of touch the longer he’s out of office.

Me thinks he has known all along what he was doing. The Clintons don’t care a fig for progressive values. He “sista souljahed” us quite a while ago.

Ned’s supposed vacation after the primary was probably encouraged by Hill and Bill while they set the table for his demise.

Do not trust them. Ever.

Clearly nobody here knows what ‘is’ is. Or ‘or.’ And ‘and.’

A vote for war-funding is a vote against the war being funded.

it’s so clear.

sheesh.

oddmommy @ 16

don’t know what “hinky” means…..but I don’t like Hillary. Used to…..respected her for her dignity in the face of Bill’s f****g around, and for making a political career of her own.
But when I hear her talk now, I can’t stand her……she may not be a Stepford wife, but she’s sure as hell a Stepford candidate. There is not an ounce of true conviction or sincerity in anything she says.

Not sure that’s true. I think there’s a good chance she believes much of what she says. But what she says and especially what she’s done isn’t something I’m willing to support.

Bill sounds whiny to me.

Oh goody, I get to repeat my Hillary rant. I was 2 years ahead of her at Wellesley. I didn’t know her but I know the type well. Didn’t like ‘em then and still don’t like ‘em 40 years later.

The Clintons are living in a time warp. The 90s are over. Ds no longer have to do what they did back then to attract voters. The war has been the biggest factor in the change. The second biggest has been the widening income gap, and its gradually working its way into the common meme.

The Clintons are way too militaristic. Bombing the Balkans had as much to do with power projection as with humanitarian needs. (Remember Albright’s petulant snark about what’s the use of having a strong military if you won’t use it–she’s another Wellesley.)Hillary’s stuck in that mode, at a moment of history when that is the worst frame of reference the U.S. could have.

It’s just another classic example of carefully calculated triangulation. The Clintons will always position themselves somewhere to the right of progressives.

When I heard the “but “to characterize Hillary and Obama’s positions on the war as polar opposites is ludicrous” bit my only response was WTF?

egregious @ 21

Eli @ 19

So, what will it take to convince Al to run?

Did anyone ask him yet? Maybe that would do it.

I would be quite happy to beg him if I thought it would do any good.

egregious @ 21

Eli @ 19

So, what will it take to convince Al to run?

Did anyone ask him yet? Maybe that would do it.

1. A vision of the win.
2. Conviction that no one else will get meaningful work done on climate change.
3. That same cloud of forgetfulness women get about labor when contemplating another pregnancy.

The stance for Joe Lieberman by the Clintons is the tipping point. Hillary would have to weave miracles for me to support her in the primaries.

hawaiilaw @ 17

Another 2 bit draft dodger jes like georgie. Think his slick wife is any different? Yes. She’s more hypocritical.

Clinton ‘dodging’ the draft is entirely understandable given his opposition to the war in vietnam.

Bush ‘dodging’ the draft (Texas National Guard) while being ‘pro’ vietnam war is an entirely different matter.

Eli—

I don’t know how anyone could resist your begging.

So, what will it take to convince Al to run?

Did anyone ask him yet? Maybe that would do it.

Jimmy Carter said Gore won’t take his calls anymore b/c JC keeps trying to persuade him to run.

You can’t blame the man for not wanting to go through a hell like that again.

Hillary Clinton has a problem. She has to keep promoting the NeoCon agenda to keep those big campaign donations flowing into her coffers…and she also has to pretend that she is an anti-war candidate to get the support of the progressive community. Eventually most people will come to understand that this woman has no core convictions.

\\\\\\\\\\\

LindaR @ 28

1. A vision of the win.
2. Conviction that no one else will get meaningful work done on climate change.
3. That same cloud of forgetfulness women get about labor when contemplating another pregnancy.

1. I think that’s pretty damn easy to envision, actually.

2. That’s a bit of a question mark – the other Dem candidates don’t talk about the environment much. Hillary might actually be strong on it(!), IIRC.

3. I think if Al thinks it’s necessary to save the country and the planet, he’ll take one for the team. I don’t think a dislike of campaigning will be enough to dissuade him if he thinks it’s That Important.

egregious @ 31

Eli—

I don’t know how anyone could resist your begging.

Obviously you missed my high school years…

Eli @ 28

egregious @ 21

Eli @ 19

So, what will it take to convince Al to run?

Did anyone ask him yet? Maybe that would do it.

I would be quite happy to beg him if I thought it would do any good.

I recently had occasion to watch “School of Rock” with my 10-year-old son. The DVD has “extras” which include a bit wherein Frank Black begs Led Zeppelin to let them use “Immigrant Song” in the movie. It worked on Led Zeppelin, maybe the same approach will work on Al Gore.

Eli @ 37

egregious @ 31

Eli—

I don’t know how anyone could resist your begging.

Obviously you missed my high school years…

Alas. A cruel twist of fate.

Oh dear, Oh dear ….
It appears that our Attorney General has LIED to us.

Oh dear, Oh dear …

Email contradict Attorney General’s claim he wasn’t closely involved with firings …
link to article

egregious @ 37

Alas. A cruel twist of fate.

Tell me about it…

And didn’t somebody say there were going to be some more DOJ e-mails today?

Well, I guess the good news is that both political dynasties are soon over.

The bad news is that the same lobbies and neocons will be going after the rest of the candidates.

It’s got to stop. Our foreign “policy” is a complete and abject failure.

OT on Specter.

He is nothing but a specter. When asked how he voted on authorizing the subpoenas:

“Factually, I did not say a thing.”

This was supposed to be a clarification, mind you.

Arlen Specter, asked what he did in the face of Constitutional conflict, says, “I did not say a thing.”

Story of his life.

Kagro has the story.

All this “On the Table” or “Off the Table” talk really irks me. It’s a stupid cliche. On or off WHAT table, the dinner table?

sigh …. happen to like Sista Souljah!

She’s done great work with young women.

Is there a way to use the spotlight feature for say, my senators? All I see are media contacts.

AirportCat @
18

Few of the “major” candidates for the Democratic nomination for President really do much to inspire me. Hillary least of all. I’m not especially impressed with Obama either. Rocky Anderson has a lot of potential; too bad nobody knows who he is (including me before last night). I wish Russ Feingold would run.

I actually got to see Russ speak this past September at a Moveon.org thing. There was a short Q & A period. I really didn’t have a question, so when I was picked to ask a question, I told Russ that I wished he would run. I also told him that there were a lot more like me out there. When I was done, I was a tad embarassed because the crowd gave me an ovation. If Russ did run, I’d quit whatever I was doing and work for his campaign.

annx @ 39

Oh dear, Oh dear ….
It appears that our Attorney General has LIED to us.

Oh dear, Oh dear …

Email contradict Attorney General’s claim he wasn’t closely involved with firings …
link to article

Say it ain’t so! Are you telling me I can’t trust our government??

RevDeb @ 42

OT on Specter.

He is nothing but a specter. When asked how he voted on authorizing the subpoenas:

“Factually, I did not say a thing.”

This was supposed to be a clarification, mind you.

Arlen Specter, asked what he did in the face of Constitutional conflict, says, “I did not say a thing.”

Story of his life.

Kagro has the story.

I disagree with that “story of his life” remark. Specter says plenty; it’s just always the exact opposite of what he actually does.

I may be wrong in saying this. I believe Mr. Gore is a gentle person and an honorable man. I don’t know if Gore is comfortable with running against the Clintons. Perhaps it’s loyalty. I don’t know for sure. But I sure wish we could have a President Gore in Jan., 2009.

ReneND @ 46

Is there a way to use the spotlight feature for say, my senators? All I see are media contacts.

Hate to say it, but they are all in the “club.” I’d like to think it would make a difference, but . . . .

But the fact is that Hillary has yet to take a real leadership position in challenging this president

Actually I heard a clip of one of her speeches from the floor saying that an attack on Iran would be wrong. She was very very strong, I am sorry I can’t remember the specifics

I support Gore, but in the interest of fairness I just thought I should mention this

LindaR @
30

egregious @ 21

Eli @ 19

So, what will it take to convince Al to run?

Did anyone ask him yet? Maybe that would do it.

1. A vision of the win.
2. Conviction that no one else will get meaningful work done on climate change.
3. That same cloud of forgetfulness women get about labor when contemplating another pregnancy.

Here is the thing. While I am sure he doesn’t want to go through the meat grinder again, what bigger bully pulpit is their for his causes?

Arlen Specter is a coward who puts up some phony bluster and then invariably caves in at the end.

I posted this a few times before, but it never hurts to say it again.

“We represent management in all forms of state and federal litigation involving claims under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Age Discrimination in Employment Act, the American with Disabilities Act, and the Family and Medical Leave Act. We practice before governmental agencies, including, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, the National Labor Relations Board, the Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs, the Mine and Safety Health Administration, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration and other Department of Labor agencies. We also advise clients on union avoidance, organizing campaigns and union representation elections. Our specific areas of expertise include:

* Union organization, collective bargaining, arbitrations and NLRB charges
* Employment discrimination and fair employment litigation
* OSHA
* Employment contracts, trade secrets and covenants not to compete
* Affirmative action
* Wage and hour issues
* Personnel handbooks
* Supervisory training
* Compliance reviews and training
* Mediations
* Civil rights
* EEOC
* Harassment/retaliation
* Whistle-blowing”

http://www.roselawfirm.com/practice/management.asp

IIRC, when Hillary worked for the Rose Law Firm, she was rated one of the top attorneys in the nation.

She could have written her ticket and worked anywhere she pleased.

She could have worked for the poor, or the children, or for education. Or she could have represented little guys against insurance companies, like John Edwards did.

Bur she chose to work for a union busting law firm that worked to undercut the all of the worker protection laws on the books.

As a former union veep and grievance chair, I cannot in good conscience support Hillary.

Go post over at talkleft. They’ve got a Hillary lovefest going on.

Eli @ 49

RevDeb @ 42

OT on Specter.

He is nothing but a specter. When asked how he voted on authorizing the subpoenas:

“Factually, I did not say a thing.”

This was supposed to be a clarification, mind you.

Arlen Specter, asked what he did in the face of Constitutional conflict, says, “I did not say a thing.”

Story of his life.

Kagro has the story.

I disagree with that “story of his life” remark. Specter says plenty; it’s just always the exact opposite of what he actually does.

Specter is an ass. I hope he runs in ‘10. I will work tirelessly to defeat his sorry ass.

I Love Jane Hamsher @ 51

Here is the thing. While I am sure he doesn’t want to go through the meat grinder again, what bigger bully pulpit is their for his causes?

Exactly. I don’t think “making policy” and “getting the word out” would be mutually exclusive if he was prez.

Zee @ 6

I also become really “hinky” when faced with the argument that women should support Hillary simply because she’s a woman. I’d love to see a woman president, but she to get my money and shoe leather, she’s got to be committed to what’s important to me. Not simply have 2 x chromosomes.

Yup.

I think he’s found out just how badly her backing the war has polled and it’s scaring the crap out of him.

I’m glad he’s being a loyal spouse (just like I’m glad that Morton Halperin is being a loyal daddy and coming to his son Mark “Drudge rules our world” Halperin’s defense) but really. Honestly, Bill.

punaise @ 54

Arlen Specter is a coward who puts up some phony bluster and then invariably caves in at the end.

Bingo!!!!

punaise @ 53

Arlen Specter is a coward who puts up some phony bluster and then invariably caves in at the end.

Yep. and it looks like I will probably be moving to his state soon. Lots of work ahead to unseat the son of a . . .

what DOES “hinky” mean?

I Love Jane Hamsher @ 55

Specter is an ass. I hope he runs in ‘10. I will work tirelessly to defeat his sorry ass.

He’s already declared. However, if there’s no Constitution left by then, he may opt to retire, as his life’s work will be complete.

I was just thinking about Jane’s and other bloggers’ lunch with Big Dawg. That was supposed to be the Clintons getting it with the blogosphere. But there was as far as I know no follow up.

I was also wondering about Peter Daou. If there is ever a remake of the Invisible Man, I think he should get the part. I could see it if he were soaking up the Clinton largesse as he sat writing the great American novel on a nice beach on Maui, but otherwise, what gives?

And that bit about Obama and Hillary not being diametrically opposed? Big Dawg been sniffing up some of that Bush strawman stuff? For me, it’s seems just a way to direct everyone’s attention away from Hillary’s long time support of the war, her refusal to lead opposition to it, and her inability to apologize for it. Her Iraq problem has nothing to do with Obama, but with herself.

In other words, the Big Bubba might better spend his time preaching to Hillary than to us.

RevDeb @ 51

ReneND @ 46

Is there a way to use the spotlight feature for say, my senators? All I see are media contacts.

Hate to say it, but they are all in the “club.” I’d like to think it would make a difference, but . . . .

Maybe, but at least they would be aware of what we are talking about out here. And that we are kindly letting them in on the conversation.

Hey, Sam!! i missed you and your dog Jake! Glad to see you both.

Interesting article on McClatchy website on partisan records of the USAs. Here’s a quote:

” Last April, while the Justice Department and the White House were planning the firings, Rove gave a speech in Washington to the Republican National Lawyers Association. He ticked off 11 states that he said could be pivotal in the 2008 elections. Bush has appointed new U.S. attorneys in nine of them since 2005: Florida, Colorado, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Arkansas, Michigan, Nevada and New Mexico. U.S. attorneys in the latter four were among those fired.

Rove thanked the audience for “all that you are doing in those hot spots around the country to ensure that the integrity of the ballot is protected.” He added, “A lot in American politics is up for grabs.” “

Is it my imagination or is the pot starting to simmer?

Olbermann mentioned 100 new e-mails released from the DOJ today… any word on when they’ll be available to us?

annx @
40

Oh dear, Oh dear ….
It appears that our Attorney General has LIED to us.

Oh dear, Oh dear …

Email contradict Attorney General’s claim he wasn’t closely involved with firings …
link to article

que lastima! (sorry about the punctuation)

and from where did this little email pop up?

RevDeb @ 59

Yep. and it looks like I will probably be moving to his state soon. Lots of work ahead to unseat the son of a . . .

Really? Which side of it?

Eli @ 36

egregious @ 31

Eli—

I don’t know how anyone could resist your begging.

Obviously you missed my high school years…

We do tend to get a bit better at it as time goes along!

I Love Jane Hamsher @ 56

Eli @ 49

RevDeb @ 42

OT on Specter.

He is nothing but a specter. When asked how he voted on authorizing the subpoenas:

“Factually, I did not say a thing.”

This was supposed to be a clarification, mind you.

Arlen Specter, asked what he did in the face of Constitutional conflict, says, “I did not say a thing.”

Story of his life.

Kagro has the story.

I disagree with that “story of his life” remark. Specter says plenty; it’s just always the exact opposite of what he actually does.

Specter is an ass. I hope he runs in ‘10. I will work tirelessly to defeat his sorry ass.

moi aussi. I will put even more energy into defeating him than I did trying to defeat HoJo. That’s a promise.

punaise @ 55

Arlen Specter is a coward who puts up some phony bluster and then invariably caves in at the end.

you would too if you saw bullets reverse direction midair zigzagging wildly!!!

(re: his warren commission ‘work’)

Talk about a Friday news dump! My local Seattle news is leading with the new Gonzales documents!

I actually don’t think this is an appropriate subject for this blog.

Heh. Sorry.

I seem to have that in my head lately for some reason.

;->

don’t wait for Al to announce, just put him on the ballot. I am going to look up the law in Virginia, get some nominating petitions, and put Al Gore on the Virginia Democratic Primary ballot whether or not he announces, then I can have the pleasure of voting for him.

Breaking news:

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales approved plans to fire several U.S. attorneys in a November meeting, according to documents released Friday that contradict earlier claims that he was not closely involved in the dismissals.

MSNBC

It shows the power of the internets when both Snow and Clinton both slam the blogs within a 24 hour period.

Damn cheeky peasants!

RevDeb @
73
I Love Jane Hamsher @ 56
Eli @ 49
RevDeb @ 42
OT on Specter.

He is nothing but a specter. When asked how he voted on authorizing the subpoenas:

“Factually, I did not say a thing.”

This was supposed to be a clarification, mind you.

Arlen Specter, asked what he did in the face of Constitutional conflict, says, “I did not say a thing.”

Story of his life.

Kagro has the story.

—————————————-

I disagree with that “story of his life” remark. Specter says plenty; it’s just always the exact opposite of what he actually does.

——————————————

Specter is an ass. I hope he runs in ‘10. I will work tirelessly to defeat his sorry ass.

——————————————-

moi aussi. I will put even more energy into defeating him than I did trying to defeat HoJo. That’s a promise.

——————————————

Count me in!! I’ll even come back to PA in the off chance I don’t live there anymore by ‘10. How sweet it would be for Specter to go into retirement getting his ass handed to him.

Eli @ 69

RevDeb @ 59

Yep. and it looks like I will probably be moving to his state soon. Lots of work ahead to unseat the son of a . . .

Really? Which side of it?

East.

Quzi @ 75

Breaking news:

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales approved plans to fire several U.S. attorneys in a November meeting, according to documents released Friday that contradict earlier claims that he was not closely involved in the dismissals.

MSNBC

I think it’s time for someone to get out of DOJ.

Zig alert. Don’t want to upset the Margin Faerie.

Can anyone cite exactly what Gonzo told Congress? Is it directly contradicted by the e-mails, or is there semantic wiggle room/grey area?

WASHINGTON – Attorney General Alberto Gonzales approved plans to fire several U.S. attorneys in a November meeting, according to documents released Friday that contradict earlier claims that he was not closely involved in the dismissals.

The Nov. 27 meeting, in which the attorney general and at least five top Justice Department officials participated, focused on a five-step plan for carrying out the firings of the prosecutors, Justice Department officials said late Friday.

There, Gonzales signed off on the plan, which was crafted by his chief of staff, Kyle Sampson. Sampson resigned last week in the wake of the political firestorm surrounding the firings.

Are Hillary and Bill both trying to hop aboard the Bush treason-train before it leaves the station? Maybe they are both are getting sick and tired of being American political figures… Supporting the idiotic neo-cons at this late date, as the Bush crime family’s illegitimate regime is imploding and collapsing is probably a great way to get out of being “leaders” in the Democratic party.

Cheers.

watch the zigs, folks…

I mean, don’t watch them. deconstruct them.

RevDeb @ 78

East.

D’oh!

Oklahoma kiddo @
51

I may be wrong in saying this. I believe Mr. Gore is a gentle person and an honorable man. I don’t know if Gore is comfortable with running against the Clintons. Perhaps it’s loyalty. I don’t know for sure. But I sure wish we could have a President Gore in Jan., 2009.

rumor has it, Gore and Hil hate each other – prolly just be a bloodbath with both of ‘em in…

OldCoastie @ 85

rumor has it, Gore and Hil hate each other

I can’t imagine why that would be…

“trashing of Ned Lamont on Larry King.”

Well, I still say Bubba saw the writing on the wall with Lamont and made the best political calculation possible which brings us to now, a Dem majority in the Senate with Liberman.

Disclaimer: I contributed twice to Lamont

Disclaimer 2: I’m FOR Edwards in 2008 ; )

oddmommy @ 63

what DOES “hinky” mean?

I grew up in Louisiana. While eating oysters, if one was rotten and bad and smelly, we would say, “This one’s hinky.” And we would throw it out.

WDCRob @
84

Can anyone cite exactly what Gonzo told Congress? Is it directly contradicted by the e-mails, or is there semantic wiggle room/grey area?

WASHINGTON – Attorney General Alberto Gonzales approved plans to fire several U.S. attorneys in a November meeting, according to documents released Friday that contradict earlier claims that he was not closely involved in the dismissals.

The Nov. 27 meeting, in which the attorney general and at least five top Justice Department officials participated, focused on a five-step plan for carrying out the firings of the prosecutors, Justice Department officials said late Friday.

There, Gonzales signed off on the plan, which was crafted by his chief of staff, Kyle Sampson. Sampson resigned last week in the wake of the political firestorm surrounding the firings.

and Kyle Sampson testifies on the Hill next week. Under oath.

[cheshire grin]

diogenes @ 55

IIRC, when Hillary worked for the Rose Law Firm, she was rated one of the top attorneys in the nation.

But she chose to work for a union busting law firm that worked to undercut the all of the worker protection laws on the books.

As a former union veep and grievance chair, I cannot in good conscience support Hillary.

I was raised in a Republican household and was nominally anti-union — knowing nothing about it, honestly — until graduate school (”it’s not just a job, it’s an indenture”). I’m very much pro-union now. You keep posting this as many times as you like.

Since her time at Rose Law Firm, what (if anything, has HRC done to promote the well-being of working people?

Hillary Clinton is about as far removed from being a statesperson as any Republican I can think of. She is the consummate pol.

I have a perfectly good reason for putting off any Dem prez fundraising appeal: I’m waiting for Gore

(or, to borrow from Eli above, I’m Waiting for Gore: d’oh!)

…no gordo jokes allowed.

Hugh says:

“In other words, the Big Bubba might better spend his time preaching to Hillary than to us.”

Maybe he could spare her some of the time he has been spending with his BFF G.H.W.Bush.

Have been pondering the synchronicity of the Plame case with my own situation. It is cruel, but beautiful.

She has spent an inordinate amount of time and energy hiding the fact that she is an agent.

I have spend an inordinate amount of time and energy trying to prove to the intelligence agencies on both sides of the Atlantic that I am NOT an agent. Expletives deleted, alas.

it takes a village to raise a child.
and it takes only one union carbide factory to blind them all.

Does Kyle Sampson give anyone else a Karl Rove mini-me vibe?

Eli,
Are you in PA? If so, where?

Pachacutec @ 76

I actually don’t think this is an appropriate subject for this blog.

Heh. Sorry.

I seem to have that in my head lately for some reason.

;->

Why aren’t you talking about biofuels, dammit?

(/concern troll)

RevDeb @ 97

Eli,
Are you in PA? If so, where?

Pittsburgh.

Pachacutec @ 76

I actually don’t think this is an appropriate subject for this blog.

Heh. Sorry.

I seem to have that in my head lately for some reason.

;->

you SHOULD be sorry! heh.

Eli @ 99

Does Kyle Sampson give anyone else a Karl Rove mini-me vibe?

Oh, yeah. Which is why I’d love to see him go down in flames. Or in jail.

do you supose Hillary is going to pull a “Lieberman” and quit being a Democrat if she doesn’t get the nomination? Call herself an “Independent Dem” or whatever, and get all the Republican votes? Creepy.

annx @ 40

Oh dear, Oh dear ….
It appears that our Attorney General has LIED to us.

Oh dear, Oh dear …

Email contradict Attorney General’s claim he wasn’t closely involved with firings …
link to article

Wow. He had a meeting on Nov. 27, right in the middle of the “email gap”.

Eli @ 99

Does Kyle Sampson give anyone else a Karl Rove mini-me vibe?

Karl Rove: The Early Years.

punaise @ 54

Arlen Specter is a coward who puts up some phony bluster and then invariably caves in at the end.

Arlen Spector is a traitor. History will not be kind to him. He has advanced the goals of the neocons on every front.

Kathy @ 103

do you supose Hillary is going to pull a “Lieberman” and quit being a Democrat if she doesn’t get the nomination? Call herself an “Independent Dem” or whatever, and get all the Republican votes? Creepy.

Nah, I think that would jeopardize Bills legacy.

rumor has it, Gore and Hil hate each other

I have a hard time believing that

that sounds like something the spite girls would put out

watertiger @ 104

Eli @ 99

Does Kyle Sampson give anyone else a Karl Rove mini-me vibe?

Karl Rove: The Early Years.

Maybe present-day Fred Savage could play him.

Although Peter Billingsley might be a better fit…

Eli @ 97

Does Kyle Sampson give anyone else a Karl Rove mini-me vibe?

Actually, he reminds me of one of the nerds in “The Office.” But yes, he does seem to radiate the aura of the turd blossom.

OT – hey Pach, ever heard of Pacha Massive? I heard a blurb on them today.

Finally, we end the week with Latin sounds peppered with a bit of New York buzz. Rhythms and energy generate from the duo Pacha Massive, composed of Maya Martinez and Ramon Nova. Martinez’s the bass player. She’s from Columbia. Nova’s roots are in the Dominican Republic. They met in New York, which is where they live today. It was New York, says Nova, that actually got them hooked on Latin music.

OldCoastie @ 88

Oklahoma kiddo @
51

I may be wrong in saying this. I believe Mr. Gore is a gentle person and an honorable man. I don’t know if Gore is comfortable with running against the Clintons. Perhaps it’s loyalty. I don’t know for sure. But I sure wish we could have a President Gore in Jan., 2009.

rumor has it, Gore and Hil hate each other – prolly just be a bloodbath with both of ‘em in…

I was thinking more along the lines of loyalty to his former boss Bill, who chose Al to be his veep. I have no doubt Hill and Al are not buddies. Might have something to do with Gore’s unhappiness with Bill’s dalliance in the Oval. Who knows? ;0)

I am 100% behind Gore for prez.

Eli @ 99

Does Kyle Sampson give anyone else a Karl Rove mini-me vibe?

you mean that creepy feeling?

yup.

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 98

it takes a village to raise a child.
and it takes only one union carbide factory to blind them all.

707!

Think Progress has the goods on Abu.

Toast anyone?

Eli @ 99

Does Kyle Sampson give anyone else a Karl Rove mini-me vibe?

inbreeding!

RevDeb @ 109

Actually, he reminds me of one of the nerds in “The Office.” But yes, he does seem to radiate the aura of the turd blossom.

A turdbud, perhaps.

Janie, if you ever come to SillyValley, J and I will make you some dee-licious slow-smoked (eight hours in the smoker) ribs, some tater salad, collard greens and some red beans and rice. Mild or blistering BBQ sauce, some good El Salvadorean beer and some Callebaut chocolate for dessert. :-)

You want Southern cooking, there it is.

RevDeb @ 117

Think Progress has the goods on Abu.

Toast anyone?

I think I smell something burning!

RevDeb @ 114

Think Progress has the goods on Abu.

Toast anyone?

Isn’t it Rayne’s husband who has a way with toast?

Alice @ 53

But the fact is that Hillary has yet to take a real leadership position in challenging this president

Actually I heard a clip of one of her speeches from the floor saying that an attack on Iran would be wrong. She was very very strong, I am sorry I can’t remember the specifics

I support Gore, but in the interest of fairness I just thought I should mention this

Really– she said that about an attack on Iran? Do you have a link?

I must have missed it; all I have ever heard/read from her wrt Iran has been antagonistic.

Cozumel @ 89

“trashing of Ned Lamont on Larry King.”

Well, I still say Bubba saw the writing on the wall with Lamont and made the best political calculation possible which brings us to now, a Dem majority in the Senate with Liberman.

But what was the calculation? If Bill Clinton had campaigned for Lamont in the primary against Lieberman (instead of the other way around), Lamont might well have won by a large enough margin to dissuade Lieberman from an independent run.

So was Big Dawg’s support for Lieberman either because his and Hillary’s positions on the war were much closer to Lieberman’s or did they want one of the few people to the right of Hillary on the war to win and deflect attention away from her (as I think someone mentioned above)? If Lieberman had lost would we now be pouring all the (deserved) vitriol we reserve for him on Hillary instead?

Pachacutec @ 75

I actually don’t think this is an appropriate subject for this blog.

Heh. Sorry.

I seem to have that in my head lately for some reason.

;->

Say what?

Eli @
99

Does Kyle Sampson give anyone else a Karl Rove mini-me vibe?

Check out TBogg’s take!

http://tbogg.blogspot.com/2007…..chive.html

Baby TurdBlossom!

The man has a way with words.

What primarily worries me about Hillary Clinton, is that I view her as a hawk, especially on the Middle East. Will she just continue the foreign policies of the Bush administration in that region and elsewhere?

HotFlash @
42

And didn’t somebody say there were going to be some more DOJ e-mails today?

oh yes we did! Looks like berto got some ’splainin’ to do. And maybe that “not under oath” shit needs get drop kicked out the window.

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales approved plans to fire several U.S. attorneys in a November meeting, according to documents released Friday that contradict earlier claims that he was not closely involved in the dismissals.

h/t atrios…

AirportCat @ 93

diogenes @ 55

IIRC, when Hillary worked for the Rose Law Firm, she was rated one of the top attorneys in the nation.

But she chose to work for a union busting law firm that worked to undercut the all of the worker protection laws on the books.

As a former union veep and grievance chair, I cannot in good conscience support Hillary.

I was raised in a Republican household and was nominally anti-union — knowing nothing about it, honestly — until graduate school (”it’s not just a job, it’s an indenture”). I’m very much pro-union now. You keep posting this as many times as you like.

Since her time at Rose Law Firm, what (if anything, has HRC done to promote the well-being of working people?

And she was on the board of that wonderful friend of the worker…Wal-Mart.

I can’t ever support Hillary or Gore. If Gore had the power of his convictions, he’d have announced by now. Didn’t respect the way Bobby Kennedy held back in ‘68 while Gene McCarthy led the anti-war movement and caused Johnson to “I will not seek nor will I accept….” Feel the same today.

There’s something to be said for a man [person] strong in his values and conviction who’s willing to put in the work and effort and offer the ideas and intellect to inspire. My choice is Edwards.

Jane, what is in those chemo cocktails? You are on fire and, as usual, dead on target.

Eli @
29

egregious @ 21

Eli @ 19

So, what will it take to convince Al to run?

Did anyone ask him yet? Maybe that would do it.

I would be quite happy to beg him if I thought it would do any good.

I’m all for Al hanging outside the fray till the others self-destruct or burn out.

diogenes @ 14

Willing to share general Carolinas location? Not b/c I might show up for dinner *g* but NC also. Quite a few of us at the Lake.

I do have at least one problem with Al Gore: Tipper. I remember the PMRC. The best thing to come out of that fiasco was Frank Zappa’s testimony before Congress.

Get Clean for Gene!!!

(McCarthy rallying cry)

one of McCarthy’s ‘quips:’ ‘People say I want to soak the rich. That’s not entirely true. I merely wish to ‘dampen’ them.”

Loved the guy

Thanks to Toolpusher@91 for translation of “hinky.” I’m a NY girl, alas…..didn’t know what “grits” were until I was 35, though I’ve lived in ol Virginny lo these many years.

Anyway……so what do you-all (STILL can’t bring myself to y’all) make of the fact that Gore chose ol’ fuckhead turncoat Joe for his VP pick back in the prehistoric era when none of this disaster was even imaginable? I saw a little kissy-kissy spot between them when Gore was testifying the other day…..something to the effect that Gore’s mamma told him what a GOOD pick that was…..

punaise: That’s a new one to me.

Airport Cat @ 93,

Hills does ok on noncontroversial stuff or the handful of things Democrats are supposed to vote for – Social Security, Medicare, etc. In that respect, I’m glad she’s in the Senate rather than a Republican.

But when it comes to making the fundamental changes needed to maintain a middle class, I can’t think of any.

oddmommy @ 130

Anyway……so what do you-all (STILL can’t bring myself to y’all) make of the fact that Gore chose ol’ fuckhead turncoat Joe for his VP pick back in the prehistoric era when none of this disaster was even imaginable? I saw a little kissy-kissy spot between them when Gore was testifying the other day…..something to the effect that Gore’s mamma told him what a GOOD pick that was…..

I think it was a mistake that Gore would never make now, and part of an disastrous overall campaign strategy of distancing himself from the most popular Democratic president since JFK.

Hugh @ 122

Cozumel @ 89

“trashing of Ned Lamont on Larry King.”

Well, I still say Bubba saw the writing on the wall with Lamont and made the best political calculation possible which brings us to now, a Dem majority in the Senate with Liberman.

But what was the calculation? If Bill Clinton had campaigned for Lamont in the primary against Lieberman (instead of the other way around), Lamont might well have won by a large enough margin to dissuade Lieberman from an independent run.

So was Big Dawg’s support for Lieberman either because his and Hillary’s positions on the war were much closer to Lieberman’s or did they want one of the few people to the right of Hillary on the war to win and deflect attention away from her (as I think someone mentioned above)? If Lieberman had lost would we now be pouring all the (deserved) vitriol we reserve for him on Hillary instead?

Hugh,

I was commenting specifically about what Big Dog said on Larry King Live which was post primary. ; ) Pre primary is troubling but just a general courtesy to support the incumbent I think. I really don’t give his endorsement (then) that much weight really. Lamont lost to Lieberman, that was the race.

I blame it on Donna Brazile and the Clintons, oddmommy.

He’s evolved so much since then.

Clinton Lieberman history- 2000 article

snips from the article:

Hillary Clinton: I want Lieberman to campaign with me

August 8, 2000

ALBANY, New York (AP) — Hillary Rodham Clinton, trying to court New York’s crucial Jewish electorate in her Senate race, said Tuesday she has already asked Democratic vice presidential pick Joseph Lieberman to campaign with her.

Polls have shown Clinton and Republican Rep. Rick Lazio running a tight Senate race, with the first lady falling below the 60 percent level among Jewish voters that is traditionally thought necessary for a Democrat to win in New York. Jews generally make up about 12 percent of the vote in statewide races in New York.

The first lady has been fighting a perception that she is overly sympathetic to the Palestinians, and Lieberman has already tried to aid her credibility on that front. In December, he accompanied her to a meeting with the Orthodox Union, which represents Orthodox synagogues.

Lieberman’s friendship with the Clintons goes back to 1970, when Bill Clinton — then a Yale Law student — campaigned for Lieberman’s state Senate campaign.

Look, I normally like Bill Clinton and don’t think he deserved to be persecuted the way he was as president over a blow job. If Hillary wants to play the long suffering wife, that’s fine. If the state of NY is satisfied with her representation, that’s fine too. But I think her whole position on the war was and is balderdash. As a lawyer, the idea that she would sign a blank check to Bush is bad enough. Hasn’t she ever heard the words, trust but verify? As a lawyer, I wouldn’t even trust her to write a decent contract. Worse yet, to say that she signed the AUMF but she didn’t expect the President to use it is really stupid. But the real icing on the cake to me is her backing of the bill to make flag burning illegal. Her backing of a bill to further erode our Bill of Rights by criminalizing freedom of expression was deliberate and calculating. It’s way over the line, and I will state again, I will never vote for Hillary Clinton. There will be no White House in the Clinton’s future if I have anything to say about it.

What gets me about Kyle Sampson is how Orrin Hatch and others portray him as an innocent bystander in all this. Yet as kirk murphy has pointed out earlier Griles and Sampson were doing dirty deals from way back.

We spend so much time on the Roves and Libbys and yet there are all these other cockroaches scurrying around in the dark, busy but unknown.

Waccamaw,

I’ve skied in Lake Waccamaw many times – it’s just up the road.

I’m just a bit farther east.

So now you know – the BBQ sauce will be vinegar based, not any of that tomato-based crap they use in Lexington!

oddmommy @
63

what DOES “hinky” mean?

It actually has an interesting etymology. See this Wiki listing for hinky

I think most of us (probably Gore too) know a lot more about Lieberman than perhaps we did when he ran for VP. Who among us has made no mistakes? I support Gore.

Cozumel #138,

I understand but if Bill Clinton was being calculating post-primary, I think he was also being calculating pre-primary.

rxbusa @ 144

oddmommy @
63

what DOES “hinky” mean?

It actually has an interesting etymology. See this Wiki listing for hinky

Regarding oysters, “not quite right” is REALLY bad!

oddmommy @
135

Thanks to Toolpusher@91 for translation of “hinky.” I’m a NY girl, alas…..didn’t know what “grits” were until I was 35, though I’ve lived in ol Virginny lo these many years.

Anyway……so what do you-all (STILL can’t bring myself to y’all) make of the fact that Gore chose ol’ fuckhead turncoat Joe for his VP pick back in the prehistoric era when none of this disaster was even imaginable? I saw a little kissy-kissy spot between them when Gore was testifying the other day…..something to the effect that Gore’s mamma told him what a GOOD pick that was…..

Now oddmommy, when you’re talking multiples, it’s all y’all. Y’all by itsownself is singular pronounciation. *g* :})

to be the leader of a vast corporate/military empire one must of necessity be desperately compromised, hemmed in by high-powered alliances, owe favours up the yazoo, watching one’s back at all times (think JFK) and have thrown away youthful idealism decades earlier.

powerful forces of greed are grinding incessant wheels.

altruistic people are visionaries with a religious/mythical/spiritual quest as part of their psychological makeup.

it’s hardly a fair matchup. in democracy the playing field is supposed to be level.

is it?

OldCoastie @ 121

RevDeb @ 117

Think Progress has the goods on Abu.

Toast anyone?

I think I smell something burning!

Another one thrown under the bus for good-times sake!

Hugh

But what was the calculation?

The calculation being that Lieberman was probably going to win and there’s no need to piss him off if we unfortunately will need him.

Cozumel @ 152

Hugh

But what was the calculation?

The calculation being that Lieberman was probably going to win and there’s no need to piss him off if we unfortunately will need him.

Talk about a poison pill!

Bubba trying to Sister Souljah us to get the middle, Why? the war is polarising voters bush’s base the less than 30%ers are NEVER, NEVER, NEVER going to support Hiliary. They hate her they still think she killed Vince Foster! Thanks to republican mindless repetition the Democratic Party IS identified as the anti war party in the public eye. When more people identify themselves as Democrats than republicans it is because of the antiwar issue. There is no middle ground the number 1 issue is the war are you for or against it? bush has been helping our numbers by losing the war nobody wants to be associated with failure but bubba now wants to get the less than 30%er we like failure vote. By throwing us overboard? Hilary needs to fire her campaign advisors

Having lived in CT, I knew more than I wanted to about Lieberliar– he’s a smarmy warmonger. I think Christy’s recent use of the word “unctuous” describes him to a T.

VG’s article at 141 may make things a bit less fuzzy for some folks.

gak.

oddmommy @ 16

don’t know what “hinky” means…..but I don’t like Hillary. Used to…..respected her for her dignity in the face of Bill’s f****g around, and for making a political career of her own.
But when I hear her talk now, I can’t stand her……she may not be a Stepford wife, but she’s sure as hell a Stepford candidate. There is not an ounce of true conviction or sincerity in anything she says.

Right on, oddmommy!

diogenes @ 144

Waccamaw,

I’ve skied in Lake Waccamaw many times – it’s just up the road.

I’m just a bit farther east.

So now you know – the BBQ sauce will be vinegar based, not any of that tomato-based crap they use in Lexington!

Well, bless your heart, darlin’. Split time between e & w. Currently se of lake about an hour. Wonder if we can manage to meet up sometime. And there is no other BBQ sauce *but* vinegar. *g* Ever eat at Joe’s BBQ in assorted locations? Dang, the rate the posts are going up tonite, will probably get epu’d.

ok, off topic, I have no idea if anyone is reading or has post the latest from think progress but it looks like abu torture is gonna be up for some purjery;

BREAKING: Gonzales Approved Firings Of U.S. Attorneys
ABC News reports: “New documents show Gonzales approved firings of U.S. attonreys, contracting earlier claims he was not closely involved.”

UPDATE: The AP reports:

Gonzales approved plans to fire several U.S. attorneys in a November meeting. …

The Nov. 27 meeting, in which the attorney general and at least five top Justice Department officials participated, focused on a five-step plan for carrying out the firings of the prosecutors, Justice Department officials said late Friday.

There, Gonzales signed off on the plan, which was crafted by his chief of staff, Kyle Sampson. Sampson resigned last week in the wake of the political firestorm surrounding the firings.

UPDATE II: On March 12, Gonzales denied any involvement in the prosecutor purge:

I was not involved in seeing any memos, was not involved in any discussions about what was going on … That’s basically what I knew as attorney general.

now, if the democrats don’t indict this man for perjury they are a sorry bunch

g’night, gonna be a great manana

Here is a link to a site with a link for a 1986 episode of “Crossfire” featuring Zappa vs. Novakula. Zappa eloquently defends the First Amendment.

We really lost a great one when we lost Zappa.

I want my party to dump Lieberman. And I realize the possible consequences of such an action.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 154

I want my party to dump Lieberman. And I realize the possible consequences of such an action.

Lieberman becomes a powerless nonentity in 2009?

Yeah, that would totally suck.

Hugh @ 153

Cozumel @ 152

Hugh

But what was the calculation?

The calculation being that Lieberman was probably going to win and there’s no need to piss him off if we unfortunately will need him.

Talk about a poison pill!

LOL Calculating the calculation ; )

Gore Waxman 2008

san juan island artist @ 157

Gore Waxman 2008

Oh, I like Henry right where he is, actually.

Bill Clinton shot his wad in the Oval Office . . .

And now, through his wife — he wants a do over . . .

Been there, done that — don’t want to go back . . .

That’s true

san juan island artist @ 163

Gore Waxman 2008

sounds a ‘tad’ eerie though doesn’t it? :>)

Eli @ 161

Oklahoma kiddo @ 154

I want my party to dump Lieberman. And I realize the possible consequences of such an action.

Lieberman becomes a powerless nonentity in 2009?

Yeah, that would totally suck.

I think Lieberman is smart enough to know that he has just this small window to play power broker then he’s toast.

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 161

san juan island artist @ 163

Gore Waxman 2008

sounds a ‘tad’ eerie though doesn’t it? :>)

Not original to me, but “Gore Slaughter” would be the greatest ticket *ever*.

Cozumel @ 90

“trashing of Ned Lamont on Larry King.”

Well, I still say Bubba saw the writing on the wall with Lamont and made the best political calculation possible which brings us to now, a Dem majority in the Senate with Liberman.

Disclaimer: I contributed twice to Lamont

Disclaimer 2: I’m FOR Edwards in 2008 ; )

Hey there, Cozumel.

Was just thinking about you today. Been a while since I’d seen you and was wondering if you’d been around.

Great to see you’re still here.

As I read Bill Clinton’s remarks quoted above, what stands out to me is a strong sense of entitlement.

Now, why exactly, Mr. President, do the Democrats owe Sen. Clinton the presidential nomination, no questions asked?

Don’t forget Lannie Guinere and Jocelyn Elders. Bill Clinton left Lannie Guinere to twist in the wind and so all his corporate friends would never have to face her brilliant analysis and remedies on congressional district gerrymandering that allow them to play us all off against each other. A real progressive old Bill. A real “friend of the people.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 160

I want my party to dump Lieberman. And I realize the possible consequences of such an action.

Not just no but hell no! We need the prick honorable Senator for the time being ; )

dakine01 @ 168

Eli @ 161

Oklahoma kiddo @ 154

I want my party to dump Lieberman. And I realize the possible consequences of such an action.

Lieberman becomes a powerless nonentity in 2009?

Yeah, that would totally suck.

I think Lieberman is smart enough to know that he has just this small window to play power broker then he’s toast.

He doesn’t even have that. He has the chairmanship of a powerful committee, yes, but if he flips the rest of the committees stay the same with the dems still in control. If he flips the R’s gonna laugh their asses off. They don’t want him either and come the 08 election they will all be irrelevant. Joe’s got nothing. He’s a gnat.

This may have been commented on, but on KO it was stated that Hillary’s and Obama’s Iraq war voting record are not that different. Any comment or link to data?

Gore & Webb would be better.

Urban Pirate @ 170

Cozumel @ 90

“trashing of Ned Lamont on Larry King.”

Well, I still say Bubba saw the writing on the wall with Lamont and made the best political calculation possible which brings us to now, a Dem majority in the Senate with Liberman.

Disclaimer: I contributed twice to Lamont

Disclaimer 2: I’m FOR Edwards in 2008 ; )

Hey there, Cozumel.

Was just thinking about you today. Been a while since I’d seen you and was wondering if you’d been around.

Great to see you’re still here.

Good to see you too!

neurophius @ 171

As I read Bill Clinton’s remarks quoted above, what stands out to me is a strong sense of entitlement.

Now, why exactly, Mr. President, do the Democrats owe Sen. Clinton the presidential nomination, no questions asked?

Spot on! It’s that “no questions asked” part that got our country where it is now … mired in a sectarian civil war overseas, and the DoJ trashing civil rights at home. Asking questions is absolutely necessary to sustain a democratic form of government (cue Mr. Waxman!).

arkieology @ 176

Gore & Webb would be better.

Would like to keep Webb where he is. VA is not yet really friendly territory for dems. How about Clark instead? Or Sebelius?

Joe Who?

Edwards ‘08

Edwards-Richardson? Hmmmmmm. Thinkin’ ’bout that one….

RevDeb @ 174 “He doesn’t even have that. He has the chairmanship of a powerful committee, yes, but if he flips the rest of the committees stay the same with the dems still in control. If he flips the R’s gonna laugh their asses off. They don’t want him either and come the 08 election they will all be irrelevant. Joe’s got nothing. He’s a gnat.”

True. But he can do all his flirting and preening and get his ego stroked when he goes on MTP which I think is more important to him.

Can’t Connecticut do a recall? Please.

Interesting how the doc dump implicating Abu happens while he is traveling around the country and far away from DC. Someone took Fredo out on the boat to go fishing.

dakine01 @ 175

True. But he can do all his flirting and preening and get his ego stroked when he goes on MTP which I think is more important to him.

Joe Lieberman (R-MTP).

ccmask @ 182

Can’t Connecticut do a recall? Please.

Nope. We’ve been through this discussion ad nauseum. It is a federal office not subject to recall. yes, I know, it bites.

Waccamaw,

We don’t have a Joe’s in SENC that I know of.

A Taste of Country in Wilmington was the best- they recently closed. Jackson’s does ok, with a nice Brunswick Stew side. Flips still cooks theirs over wood. Mike’s Tree Farm outside of Jacksonville.

I’m far enough in the sticks it’s easier to do my own. Plus, I prefer to pull the pork myself and eat it on the spot, rather than have it chopped up.

If I’m in a rush (three hours versus all day), I’ll put a pork loin in a throwaway aluminum pan, pour in the sauce, and grill with oak and hickory chips.

Prairie Sunshine @ 179

Joe Who?

Edwards ‘08

Edwards-Richardson? Hmmmmmm. Thinkin’ ’bout that one….

Got’s potential…

RevDeb @ 179

Nope. We’ve been through this discussion ad nauseum. It is a federal office not subject to recall. yes, I know, it bites.

Not even if it’s discovered to be full of rat poison or fecal contamination?

ccmask @ 182

Can’t Connecticut do a recall? Please.

CT does not have any provisions for recall in their state constitution. But I don’t think it is allowed for federal offices such as senate or house anyway, even if the state has it. I believe only the bodies themselves can expel someone, usually for felony type convictions. I’m thinking Adam Clayton Powell and Jim Trafficanti as examples bbut it is rare. Of course, IANAL and may be a totally wrong on this.

Eli @ 188

RevDeb @ 179

Nope. We’ve been through this discussion ad nauseum. It is a federal office not subject to recall. yes, I know, it bites.

Not even if it’s discovered to be full of rat poison or fecal contamination?

That was kind of a given even before the election.

Eli @ 164

san juan island artist @ 157

Gore Waxman 2008

Oh, I like Henry right where he is, actually.

Yeah, me too. How about Gore/Feingold?

RevDeb @ 183

Interesting how the doc dump implicating Abu happens while he is traveling around the country and far away from DC. Someone took Fredo out on the boat to go fishing.

Was this actually released by wh/doj or was it leaked?

Any idea if its posted anywhere?

Almost unbelievable that he would get caught lying to such an extreme after all of this weeks bullshit. Almost.

Eli @ 184

dakine01 @ 175

True. But he can do all his flirting and preening and get his ego stroked when he goes on MTP which I think is more important to him.

Joe Lieberman (R-MTP).

Well, he’s in the basic crowd that Timmeh enjoys getting reach arounds from…

rxbusa @ 185

Yeah, me too. How about Gore/Feingold?

Sounds good to me, as long as you don’t mind them being dubbed “FeinGore”.

RevDeb @ 179

arkieology @ 176

Gore & Webb would be better.

Would like to keep Webb where he is. VA is not yet really friendly territory for dems. How about Clark instead? Or Sebelius?

I prefer Smetana to Sebelius.

Hugh @ 195

RevDeb @ 179

arkieology @ 176

Gore & Webb would be better.

Would like to keep Webb where he is. VA is not yet really friendly territory for dems. How about Clark instead? Or Sebelius?

I prefer Smetana to Sebelius.

He from Kansas too? Somehow I don’t think so.

How about Feingold and this Clinton in ‘08?

diogenes @ 186

Waccamaw,

We don’t have a Joe’s in SENC that I know of.

A Taste of Country in Wilmington was the best- they recently closed. Jackson’s does ok, with a nice Brunswick Stew side. Flips still cooks theirs over wood. Mike’s Tree Farm outside of Jacksonville.

I’m far enough in the sticks it’s easier to do my own. Plus, I prefer to pull the pork myself and eat it on the spot, rather than have it chopped up.

If I’m in a rush (three hours versus all day), I’ll put a pork loin in a throwaway aluminum pan, pour in the sauce, and grill with oak and hickory chips.

y’all are making me hungry… anyone ever been to Bubba’s in Hatteras?

AirportCat @
197

How about Feingold and this Clinton in ‘08?

Seriously now! Talk about gettin’ up for the down stroke!

Fern @
187

Prairie Sunshine @ 179

Joe Who?

Edwards ‘08

Edwards-Richardson? Hmmmmmm. Thinkin’ ’bout that one….

Got’s potential…

Agree. Big time (not to be confused with Cheney) ; )

The Catholic Church uses excommunication; why can’t the Dems come up with something like that for Lieberman?

AirportCat @ 191

How about Feingold and this Clinton in ‘08?

We want the Russ! Give up the Russ!
We *need* the Russ! Gotta have that Russ!

‘Edwards – Richardson’ has a certain ring to it.

a sort of solid ‘before everything was a mall’ type of feel.

dakine01 @ 193

Eli @ 184

dakine01 @ 175

Joe Lieberman (R-MTP).

Well, he’s in the basic crowd that Timmeh enjoys getting reach arounds from…

Another virtuoso of the Rusty Trombone?

diogenes @ 186

We don’t have a Joe’s in SENC that I know of.

Whiteville, Shallotte, & used to be one at the Lake but it closed. Any likely thread time I might see you again?

Specter and Durbin on MTP Sunday, also Iglesias and McKay.

Russert’s always bragging how he gets people on the record and showing previous statements. He could use some FDL fact-based love to counter the inevitable Bushie talking points blast faxes/emails.

Also, Bill Bradley with his book, The New American Story. I see that as kinda like the cleansing ceremony done after Bush left SA… Bradley can be the cleanser for the ultimate cockroach, Delay.

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 198

‘Edwards – Richardson’ has a certain ring to it.

a sort of solid ‘before everything was a mall’ type of feel.

LOL!

laurie9 @ 201

The Catholic Church uses excommunication; why can’t the Dems come up with something like that for Lieberman?

Come 08, HoJo will be persona non grata from both sides of the aisle. He will have nothing to trade.

Eli @
202

AirportCat @ 191

How about Feingold and this Clinton in ‘08?

We want the Russ! Give up the Russ!
We *need* the Russ! Gotta have that Russ!

Gotta turn that Mutha OUT…

Feingold – Kuchinich 08 !!!!!
campaign theme:

We May Lose but We’ll Lose with a Department of Peace!!! What have you got suckers? You talkin’ to me?

neurophius @ 171

As I read Bill Clinton’s remarks quoted above, what stands out to me is a strong sense of entitlement.

Now, why exactly, Mr. President, do the Democrats owe Sen. Clinton the presidential nomination, no questions asked?

So that on January 21, 2016 we can all wake up, looking back to January 21 1988 – the day the Bush/Clinton junta took power and welcome the next Bush onto the podium and calmly say to the omni-camera in our living room, “Thank you, big brother/sister!”

Anybody know whatever happened with Lieberman’s missing $387K petty cash? or that false report he filed with the FBI about being hacked?

I’m disappointed in Mrs Clinton. I give her a lot of slack, because she’s in the business and I’m not, and that’s why we have financial advisors rather than trying to ruin our portfolios all by our lonesomes. But I’m still disappointed. I was originally attracted to her because I read somewhere that she had been inspired as a young person by reading Neibuhr, who is one of my heroes. But she must have lost that idealism under the punishing life in the White House.

The Clinton’s are survivors. I live in a tgown with probably largest contingent of living survivors outside Israel. They are f*cked up. You can understand. But you don’t want them to be running your government.

Eli @
194

rxbusa @ 185

Yeah, me too. How about Gore/Feingold?

Sounds good to me, as long as you don’t mind them being dubbed “FeinGore”.

I’d pound the pavement for that ticket!! And give money too.

Clinton was not the worst President ever, even before Bush 43, but he was far from a progressive dream.
Lots of today’s social illness incubated under his triangulating watch.

My question for any Hillary supporter is simple:
What accomplishments does she have to show?
All I think of is the failed Health Care initiative from Bills earliest days (a noble abject failure) and her side by side with Joe LIEberman cheerleading of our Decider.

I will not deride her for these shortcomings. Perhaps in time she could be a very good Senator, Governor even. But President?
Nah. To repeat the Dems lamest motto ever:
We can do better.

Dru @ 212

Anybody know whatever happened with Lieberman’s missing $387K petty cash? or that false report he filed with the FBI about being hacked?

Don’t know about the money but the “hacking” got shot down soon after it was filed. It was basically shown that his IT provider was incompetent and under powered. His stuff was riding on a server with a lot of smallbusiness and just didn’t have the power.

Eli @ 188

RevDeb @ 179

Nope. We’ve been through this discussion ad nauseum. It is a federal office not subject to recall. yes, I know, it bites.

Not even if it’s discovered to be full of rat poison or fecal contamination?

In the context of Joe Lieberman, the latter may simply be an antidote.

Dru @ 212

Anybody know whatever happened with Lieberman’s missing $387K petty cash? or that false report he filed with the FBI about being hacked?

The US Department of Justice is on the case…

Eli @
99

Does Kyle Sampson give anyone else a Karl Rove mini-me vibe?

Yeah, in fact I used that same description somewhere…and for the life of me I cannot remember who the other Karl Mini-Me is, there’s another one besides Karl.

Jeebus. Couldn’t the brown-shirted Perfect Race [TM] actually make an attempt to look like one?

Rayne @ 213

Yeah, in fact I used that same description somewhere…and for the life of me I cannot remember who the other Karl Mini-Me is, there’s another one besides Karl.

Jeebus. Couldn’t the brown-shirted Perfect Race [TM] actually make an attempt to look like one?

But putting lipstick on pigs is what the Republicans are best at!

I think Obama is a solid choice for VP.
I could comfortably, even enthusiastically support either
EdwardsObama or GoreObama

Ed*ard Teller @ 218

Dru @ 212

Anybody know whatever happened with Lieberman’s missing $387K petty cash? or that false report he filed with the FBI about being hacked?

The US Department of Justice is on the case…

Boy, that fills me with confidence! *g*

Waccamaw @
205

diogenes @ 186

We don’t have a Joe’s in SENC that I know of.

Whiteville, Shallotte, & used to be one at the Lake but it closed. Any likely thread time I might see you again?

Next time I’m in Whiteville I’ll give it a whirl.

For the time being, I’m reduced to getting brief FDL fixes in the evening (sigh).

AirportCat: I SO well remember Zappa vs. Tipper back in th ’80’s…..the way he just radiated contempt….told her to kiss his ass at one point, I believe. Absolutely, a priceless moment in American history.

All of this, in my HO, just shows how far BEHIND we have come in the last 6 years…..from the days when people were complacent enough to diss Al Gore…..when ol’ Joe was, like, a decent guy……

Finally, whoever proposed Jim Webb for president or vp — totally agree. His response to king G’s state of the union was the best speech I’ve heard in recent memory. Unlike Hillary, unlike Obama……spoken from the gut, not canned politics.

Unfortunately, also agree that it is too soon for him to aspire to such a thing.

Rayne @ 219

Eli @
99

Does Kyle Sampson give anyone else a Karl Rove mini-me vibe?

Yeah, in fact I used that same description somewhere…and for the life of me I cannot remember who the other Karl Mini-Me is, there’s another one besides Karl.

Jeebus. Couldn’t the brown-shirted Perfect Race [TM] actually make an attempt to look like one?

I want to call ‘em Pencil-neck geeks but whatever they are, it ain’t pencil-neck…

Eli @ 220

But putting lipstick on pigs is what the Republicans are best at!

It’s what they do with the pigs after applying the lipstick that scares me.

rxbusa @ 68

Interesting article on McClatchy website on partisan records of the USAs. Here’s a quote:

” Last April, while the Justice Department and the White House were planning the firings, Rove gave a speech in Washington to the Republican National Lawyers Association. He ticked off 11 states that he said could be pivotal in the 2008 elections. Bush has appointed new U.S. attorneys in nine of them since 2005: Florida, Colorado, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Arkansas, Michigan, Nevada and New Mexico. U.S. attorneys in the latter four were among those fired.

Rove thanked the audience for “all that you are doing in those hot spots around the country to ensure that the integrity of the ballot is protected.” He added, “A lot in American politics is up for grabs.” “

Is it my imagination or is the pot starting to simmer?

Oh. My. God. [You’re allowed to invoke the name of God if it’s something truly enormous and frightening.]

FDL research people? We’ve got a live one here.

toolpusher @
148

rxbusa @ 144

oddmommy @
63

what DOES “hinky” mean?

It actually has an interesting etymology. See this Wiki listing for hinky

Regarding oysters, “not quite right” is REALLY bad!

Ewww! Your comment gave me a wicked flashback. In a previous life my ex-brother-in-law ate some hinky mussels at a family dinner outing. We were woken by a call from his wife about 2 in the morning saying he was crawling around on the driveway puking and did we think she should take him to the hospital.

naaahhh. No hinky shellfish! spit ‘em out! spit ‘em out!

dakine01 @ 219

I want to call ‘em Pencil-neck geeks but whatever they are, it ain’t pencil-neck…

No, they’re the kind of geeks who can swallow pretty much *anything*.

Thanks dakine01; The blogosphere figured that out in no time; Lieberschmerz knew it too, but he filed a (false) complaint anyway. I’m wondering what the FBI’s official determination was.

Tithonia @
122

Isn’t it Rayne’s husband who has a way with toast?

Yeah, my spouse, the charcoal maker.

But I’m biting my tongue today. The man took off my brakes and a rotor this morning before he went to work, dropped off the rotor for turning, picked it up and came home at lunch to install the new brakes and turned rotor, showed me how to bleed the brakes, and put it all back together inside an hour. Then he went back to CEO-land for the afternoon.

[sigh] I do so love a fix-it kind of guy.

Even if he does burn the f*cking toast every damned chance he gets.

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 210

Feingold – Kuchinich 08 !!!!!
campaign theme:

We May Lose but We’ll Lose with a Department of Peace!!! What have you got suckers? You talkin’ to me?

When I found out that Dennis had a pre-election conversion to the pro-choice position when he ran for house that popped him off all my lists. That he could ever have been anti-choice and then changed for political reasons frosts me. Kos had a piece on him a couple of weeks ago with quite the laundry list, none too flattering. Sorry.

oddmommy @ 224

AirportCat: I SO well remember Zappa vs. Tipper back in th ’80’s…..the way he just radiated contempt….told her to kiss his ass at one point, I believe. Absolutely, a priceless moment in American history.

All of this, in my HO, just shows how far BEHIND we have come in the last 6 years…..from the days when people were complacent enough to diss Al Gore…..when ol’ Joe was, like, a decent guy……

Finally, whoever proposed Jim Webb for president or vp — totally agree. His response to king G’s state of the union was the best speech I’ve heard in recent memory. Unlike Hillary, unlike Obama……spoken from the gut, not canned politics.

Unfortunately, also agree that it is too soon for him to aspire to such a thing.

Reid gave him a script and he trashed it. Don’t ask me for a link I’m giving it to you quietly downthread and direct.

I just want to say that I agree with 78% of the above statements which concur with positions I hold dearly 68% of the time.

so thanks.

ccmask @
182

Can’t Connecticut do a recall? Please.

AMEN

Dru @ 230

Thanks dakine01; The blogosphere figured that out in no time; Lieberschmerz knew it too, but he filed a (false) complaint anyway. I’m wondering what the FBI’s official determination was.

Bury it deep and hope no one notices. I mean what’s some more crooked activity amongst friends right? And we know LIEberman is one of the Chimpy’s BFF…

Can the good people of Connecticut organize a recall campaign? Forgive my naivete but it is hard for me to accept U.S. Senators are not subject to minimum checks and balances for their electorate.

angie @
198

diogenes @ 186

Waccamaw,

We don’t have a Joe’s in SENC that I know of.

A Taste of Country in Wilmington was the best- they recently closed. Jackson’s does ok, with a nice Brunswick Stew side. Flips still cooks theirs over wood. Mike’s Tree Farm outside of Jacksonville.

I’m far enough in the sticks it’s easier to do my own. Plus, I prefer to pull the pork myself and eat it on the spot, rather than have it chopped up.

If I’m in a rush (three hours versus all day), I’ll put a pork loin in a throwaway aluminum pan, pour in the sauce, and grill with oak and hickory chips.

y’all are making me hungry… anyone ever been to Bubba’s in Hatteras?

Hey Angie,

Hatteras, boy it’s been a while! I have contented myself with the local waters the past few years, but I have promised myself a OB trip this fall when the drum are running.

Dru @ 212

Anybody know whatever happened with Lieberman’s missing $387K petty cash? or that false report he filed with the FBI about being hacked?

I’m sure it’s on the top of the DOJ’s list of things to follow up on. *g*

Rayne @ 231

Tithonia @
122

Isn’t it Rayne’s husband who has a way with toast?

Yeah, my spouse, the charcoal maker.

But I’m biting my tongue today. The man took off my brakes and a rotor this morning before he went to work, dropped off the rotor for turning, picked it up and came home at lunch to install the new brakes and turned rotor, showed me how to bleed the brakes, and put it all back together inside an hour. Then he went back to CEO-land for the afternoon.

[sigh] I do so love a fix-it kind of guy.

Even if he does burn the f*cking toast every damned chance he gets.

You are so busted. You love this guy admit it.

Sunday Blitzer:

As Capitol Hill debates deadlines and dollars, insurgents in Iraq are not backing down. So, is the “surge” working? We’ll ask the Iraqi ambassador to the U.S. Guests:
•Samir Sumaidaie: Iraqi Ambassador to U.S.
•Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah: Judiciary Committee member
•Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Florida: Armed Services Committee member
•John Bolton: Former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations
•Lanny Davis: Former Clinton special counsel; author, “Scandal”
•Joseph DiGenova: Former United States attorney
•Donna Brazile: Democratic Strategist, CNN Contributor
•Ed Gillespie: Former RNC Chairman
•Dana Bash: CNN congressional correspondent
Video podcast

Ipecac me.

Prairie Sunshine @ 235

Sunday Blitzer:

As Capitol Hill debates deadlines and dollars, insurgents in Iraq are not backing down. So, is the “surge” working? We’ll ask the Iraqi ambassador to the U.S. Guests:
•Samir Sumaidaie: Iraqi Ambassador to U.S.
•Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah: Judiciary Committee member
•Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Florida: Armed Services Committee member
•John Bolton: Former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations
•Lanny Davis: Former Clinton special counsel; author, “Scandal”
•Joseph DiGenova: Former United States attorney
•Donna Brazile: Democratic Strategist, CNN Contributor
•Ed Gillespie: Former RNC Chairman
•Dana Bash: CNN congressional correspondent
Video podcast

Ipecac me.

But… but they’ve got three Democrats and a Neutral Journalist!

This just in…Gonzo was in on the firing of 5 of the attorneys, despite denials.

Gonzo in deep shit.

RevDeb @ 181

Interesting how the doc dump implicating Abu happens while he is traveling around the country and far away from DC. Someone took Fredo out on the boat to go fishing.

I think you got that one right… it did seem like an odd time for a road trip.

newspaperbrat @ 237

Can the good people of Connecticut organize a recall campaign? Forgive my naivete but it is hard for me to accept U.S. Senators are not subject to minimum checks and balances for their electorate.

As said before, CT does not allow recall and it would not apply to US
Senate or House anyway as they are federal offices with different rules.

Eli @ 220

But putting lipstick on pigs is what the Republicans are best at!

Paging darkblack, paging Mr. darkblack…

dakine01 @ 225

I want to call ‘em Pencil-neck geeks but whatever they are, it ain’t pencil-neck…

‘Member those big fat squatty pencils they gave you in school in kindgergarten when you first started to learn to print, those big stubby things?

Yeah. Them. Just about as sharp-looking.

•Joseph DiGenova: Former United States attorney

Feh

Rayne @ 240

Eli @ 220

But putting lipstick on pigs is what the Republicans are best at!

Paging darkblack, paging Mr. darkblack…

Possibly not necessary…

RevDeb @ 232

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 210

Feingold – Kuchinich 08 !!!!!
campaign theme:

We May Lose but We’ll Lose with a Department of Peace!!! What have you got suckers? You talkin’ to me?

When I found out that Dennis had a pre-election conversion to the pro-choice position when he ran for house that popped him off all my lists. That he could ever have been anti-choice and then changed for political reasons frosts me. Kos had a piece on him a couple of weeks ago with quite the laundry list, none too flattering. Sorry.

My business partner, now in New York, was born and raised in Cleveland. He says when Dennis was mayor he filled city government jobs with college drop out frat boys and nearly bankrupted Cleveland.

I dunno and I’ve never heard that anywhere else!?

Prairie Sunshine @ 241

Sunday Blitzer:

As Capitol Hill debates deadlines and dollars, insurgents in Iraq are not backing down. So, is the “surge” working? We’ll ask the Iraqi ambassador to the U.S. Guests:
•Samir Sumaidaie: Iraqi Ambassador to U.S.
•Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah: Judiciary Committee member
•Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Florida: Armed Services Committee member
•John Bolton: Former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations
•Lanny Davis: Former Clinton special counsel; author, “Scandal”
•Joseph DiGenova: Former United States attorney
•Donna Brazile: Democratic Strategist, CNN Contributor
•Ed Gillespie: Former RNC Chairman
•Dana Bash: CNN congressional correspondent
Video podcast

Ipecac me.

707 Scared the cat!

Jane said:

We saw how pissy the Boy King became today when Nancy Pelosi got under his skin. He clearly doesn’t like it when women publicly spank him. If Hillary ever chose to do likewise, I’m sure we’d hear about it.

I watched Gore’s appearance before the senate committee yesterday evening. I was struck by how carefully Sen. Clinton said absolutely the least possible that might cut her off from any corporate donor anywhere.

diogenes– Hatteras Island is such a wonderful and peaceful place even now. Sadly eroding faster and faster though. ;( (yo, President Gore!)

Nags Head and Kitty Hawk, et al have ’sploded, yet they all remain a valued refuge in my mind.

Happy fishing!

True that, ET at 251! She was kewl as a kukumber to him as well. He was genteel and engaging. The contrast was stark, imho.

Re. Sunday Blitzer -

Somebody! P.L.E.A.S.E tell me, this is a joke, right?

egregious @ 240

You are so busted. You love this guy admit it.

Yeah, hopelessly addicted. But the toast thing has got to stop, going to have to use some dog training methodology or something.

If that stupid b*tch ex-wife can teach him not to leave the seat up, I’ve got to break him of the charcoal habit.

If Bill wants to really do Hillary a favor, he’ll step back and keep his thoughts to himself. She’s a big girl, let her make the case on her own or not. All else will convince people that she’s simply the surrogate candidate. Back off Bill, you sound whiny, as you campaign with pastry under both arms.

Great graphic over at C&L. The Unsweet 16

My personal fantasy ticket is Feingold / Franken. The serious plus snark ticket!

Ed*ard Teller @ 218

Dru @ 212

Anybody know whatever happened with Lieberman’s missing $387K petty cash? or that false report he filed with the FBI about being hacked?

The US Department of Justice is on the case…

Ah, DOJball.

Rayne @ 254

egregious @ 240

You are so busted. You love this guy admit it.

Yeah, hopelessly addicted. But the toast thing has got to stop, going to have to use some dog training methodology or something.

If that stupid b*tch ex-wife can teach him not to leave the seat up, I’ve got to break him of the charcoal habit.

Sounds like a new toaster maybe?

Rayne @ 254

egregious @ 240

You are so busted. You love this guy admit it.

Yeah, hopelessly addicted. But the toast thing has got to stop, going to have to use some dog training methodology or something.

If that stupid b*tch ex-wife can teach him not to leave the seat up, I’ve got to break him of the charcoal habit.

Everyone needs a Life Dream. You’ve found your destiny. In addition to saving the nation.

And frankly we’d like to learn more about how the ex did it.

Rayne @
231

Tithonia @
122

Isn’t it Rayne’s husband who has a way with toast?

Yeah, my spouse, the charcoal maker.

But I’m biting my tongue today. The man took off my brakes and a rotor this morning before he went to work, dropped off the rotor for turning, picked it up and came home at lunch to install the new brakes and turned rotor, showed me how to bleed the brakes, and put it all back together inside an hour. Then he went back to CEO-land for the afternoon.

[sigh] I do so love a fix-it kind of guy.

Even if he does burn the f*cking toast every damned chance he gets.

He must love you madly, ’cause brake jobs are usually nasty/aggravating/frequently curse-provoking.

Eli @
194

rxbusa @ 185

Yeah, me too. How about Gore/Feingold?

Sounds good to me, as long as you don’t mind them being dubbed “FeinGore”.

Gore/Edwards/ ‘08
Edwards/Obama ‘12

Waccamaw @ 253

Re. Sunday Blitzer -

Somebody! P.L.E.A.S.E tell me, this is a joke, right?

The far right and the DLC Triangulators. All would be worthy according to the great Dean of punditry Broder. Which means I’ll be watching a movie on Sunday AM. Don’t know what movie but I’ll find something.

mrobinsong @ 256

Gore/Edwards/ ‘08
Edwards/Obama ‘12

Why only one term for Gore?

Marcy’s on the Abu case:

Everyone is excited about the fact that Abu Gonzales is done. He has to be:

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales approved plans to fire several U.S. attorneys in a November meeting, according to documents released Friday that contradict earlier claims that he was not closely involved in the dismissals.

The Nov. 27 meeting, in which the attorney general and at least five top Justice Department officials participated, focused on a five-step plan for carrying out the firings of the prosecutors, Justice Department officials said late Friday.

People, people, people. Beware the shiny objects!!

more at TNH

angie @ 252

diogenes– Hatteras Island is such a wonderful and peaceful place even now. Sadly eroding faster and faster though. ;( (yo, President Gore!)

Nags Head and Kitty Hawk, et al have ’sploded, yet they all remain a valued refuge in my mind.

Happy fishing!

True that, ET at 251! She was kewl as a kukumber to him as well. He was genteel.

She burns me! Which reminds me – I got the worst sunburn of my live in July 1967 at Cape Hattaras. Scraped almost all the skin off my chest body surfing too. Sgt. Hicks threatened me with an Article 15 when I tried to go on sick call the following Monday.

LoudounLib @ 247

•Joseph DiGenova: Former United States attorney

Feh

Isn’t he Mr. Victoria Toensing?

Dru @ 258

Ed*ard Teller @ 218

Dru @ 212

Anybody know whatever happened with Lieberman’s missing $387K petty cash? or that false report he filed with the FBI about being hacked?

The US Department of Justice is on the case…

Ah, DOJball.

Funny and true!

Ed*ard Teller @ 251

Jane said:

We saw how pissy the Boy King became today when Nancy Pelosi got under his skin. He clearly doesn’t like it when women publicly spank him. If Hillary ever chose to do likewise, I’m sure we’d hear about it.

I watched Gore’s appearance before the senate committee yesterday evening. I was struck by how carefully Sen. Clinton said absolutely the least possible that might cut her off from any corporate donor anywhere.

The Senator can be so aggravating sometimes. ;0)

dakine01 -

Every Sunday ya’ think, “Well, it can’t get any worse.”………and damned if it don’t. :-(

Hugh @ 267

LoudounLib @ 247

•Joseph DiGenova: Former United States attorney

Feh

Isn’t he Mr. Victoria Toensing?

Yeppers!

laurie9 @
201

The Catholic Church uses excommunication; why can’t the Dems come up with something like that for Lieberman?

We did. It was called the 2006 Democratic Primary.

RevDeb @ 259

Sounds like a new toaster maybe?

No, he actually wants his toast blackened. Can’t see spending more money on the same result, even though I wouldn’t deny getting a Dualit would be groovy.

egregious @ 260

Everyone needs a Life Dream.
And frankly we’d like to learn more about how the ex did it.

I’m pretty sure being an inutterably whiny, selfish wench had something to do with it. Cripes, I’d just about give her anything myself to get her to stop with that nasal whining. That, and withholding sex. I’m not so good at either whining or withholding, think both are inhuman things to do to one’s life partner.

Waccamaw @ 270

dakine01 -

Every Sunday ya’ think, “Well, it can’t get any worse.”………and damned if it don’t. :-(

I’ve pretty much bailed on the corporate owned media excepting Countdown. Otherwise, it’s just too damn aggravating and I just can’t find the good buds like I used to get in Hawaii to calm the blood pressure

Eli @ 264

mrobinsong @ 256

Gore/Edwards/ ‘08
Edwards/Obama ‘12

Why only one term for Gore?

Two terms for Gore. Two terms for Edwards.

God, Alberto is so incompetent his spokespeople can’t even get their stories straight …

NY Times on the new documents

No joke.

Contact Us button right under Wolfie’s picture.

I’m trying to imagine Gonzo as the guy arrested for murder on “Law & Order”.

Gonzo: I had nothing to do with the murder!

Sam Waterston: Mr Gonzales, we have you on videotape pulling the trigger!

Gonzo: Yeah, but I wasn’t involved with the planning of it or anything! I didn’t even know the guy I was shooting!

Rayne -

No, he actually wants his toast blackened. Can’t see spending more money on the same result, even though I wouldn’t deny getting a Dualit would be groovy.

can you negotiate the Dualit for somewhat less blackening?

fskinr01 -

Mine just shot up 10 points *reading* that list.

ooh, ET @ 266– I am sorry for your pain. I got very, very, very many mosquito bites one night, then sunburned and tumbled badly by a pre-Hurricane wave there the next day once as a adolescent.

I feeeel your pain.

I grew up and have found insect repellent and sunscreen since and my best memories triumph.

‘course I was not threatened with an Article 15, either.

diogenes @ 261

He must love you madly, ’cause brake jobs are usually nasty/aggravating/frequently curse-provoking.

He makes it look pretty easy.

Oh, I know he’s into me if he’s still here all these years and brake jobs later. But I don’t kid myself; the quote for the brake job was several hundred dollars and he’d be damned if he was going to pay that much for something he could do in under 2 hours. ;-)

annx @ 276

God, Alberto is so incompetent his spokespeople can’t even get their stories straight …

NY Times on the new documents

he previously undisclosed meeting appeared to contradict Mr. Gonzales’s previous statements about his knowledge of the dismissals. He said at a news conference on March 13 that he had not participated in any discussions about the removals, but knew in general that his aides were working on personnel changes involving United States attorneys.

Dead meat

TRex singing upstairs

ET and Angie – fellow Hatteras lover here. Every summer I make the trek down there and stay at a great little beach shack, last left turn before the Ocracoke Ferry. Heaven!

You are so busted. You love this guy admit it.

Rayne: Yeah, hopelessly addicted. But the toast thing has got to stop, going to have to use some dog training methodology or something.

If that stupid b*tch ex-wife can teach him not to leave the seat up, I’ve got to break him of the charcoal habit.

Aw come on, wet butt/pile of ashes? no comparison!

OldCoastie @ 279

…can you negotiate the Dualit for somewhat less blackening?

If somebody handed you the keys to a new Porsche, what would you do? Take it for a spin some place where you could put the pedal to the metal?

Ditto Dualit. Hell, he’d probably burn 4 slices instead of two just to prove he could.

Does anybody know when and where the new documents will be made available to us proles?

oddmommy @
63

what DOES “hinky” mean?

“Hinky” is copspeak for the squirrely way criminals act just before they’re about to commit a crime. They’re twitching, they’re on edge. When cops see that, it’s a dead giveaway.

It’s a word Sergeant Friday used on Dragnet to describe a suspect. “We can’t get close to him, he’s hinky.”

Jane used the term very precisely to describe the way Hillary announces positions on controversial issues. She twitches and hedges, wrinkles her nose, gets all herky-jerky. She acts like she’s crossing from Mexico into Southern California with a lid of pot in her blouse. Hinky.

RevDeb @ 232

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 210

Feingold – Kuchinich 08 !!!!!
campaign theme:

We May Lose but We’ll Lose with a Department of Peace!!! What have you got suckers? You talkin’ to me?

When I found out that Dennis had a pre-election conversion to the pro-choice position when he ran for house that popped him off all my lists. That he could ever have been anti-choice and then changed for political reasons frosts me. Kos had a piece on him a couple of weeks ago with quite the laundry list, none too flattering. Sorry.

Kos is a great blog but he sort of has an over the top reaction to Kuchinich I think… I don’t think he’s completely privy to all of Dennis’s inner thoughts…

Okay. So what’s a “lid of pot”?

Unfortunately, I don’t trust Hillary, and I don’t know much about Obama. Maybe Pelosi will run. I could vote for Nancy. It’ll never happen. Sigh. But to me, more important than getting out of Iraq and not going into Iran is “GIMMIE MY CONSTITUTION BACK!” whether they want to talk about it or not. And Bill did almost as much to undermine the Constitution as Chimpy (maybe not the 4th amendment), but maybe we should just impeach the SOB and Shooter and then Pelosi would be the president anyway, just in time to have to run her own campeign, and take a stand on some of these issues.

ChickenMan @ 291

Okay. So what’s a “lid of pot”?

It’s what covers the kettle, sort of.

a ‘lid of pot?’

I’m gonna score a lid man.

Is that still ‘grass’ ‘lingo?’ or did that disappeaar with Wavy Gravy’s free breakfast on Yasgar’s farm?

OT…..I’m a novice here……and a techno-retard……how DO you get the comment you are responding to into the little box??? Clicking “quote this comment” doesn’t work.

Chickenman, back in the 60’s, a lid of pot was an ounce of marijuana rolled up into a plastic sandwich bag (pre-ziplock).

oddmommy, if quote this comment is not working in your browser, you can cut and paste. What browser are you using?

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 294

a ‘lid of pot?’

I’m gonna score a lid man.

Is that still ‘grass’ ‘lingo?’ or did that disappeaar with Wavy Gravy’s free breakfast on Yasgar’s farm?

Wow. I’ve never heard that term before.

Leave it to Jane, Jane, Jane!

Thank you!

ChickenMan @ 298

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 294

a ‘lid of pot?’

I’m gonna score a lid man.

Is that still ‘grass’ ‘lingo?’ or did that disappeaar with Wavy Gravy’s free breakfast on Yasgar’s farm?

Wow. I’ve never heard that term before.

Why do people do this to me? You make me feel like I’m 100 years old.

Dennis ….

I’ll just say I remember the term too … and pre-ziploc days.

and I am not 100!

oddmommy, if quote this comment is not working in your browser, you can cut and paste. What browser are you using?

well, the quote part works….only it doesn’t appear in those neat little boxes like y’all’s does (there, I said it!)

Maybe it’s b/c I have a Mac. iBook. whatever, it’s what I have. All I want out of life is word processing, e-mail, and internet, with as little effort as possible.

the Beatniks and Allan Ginsberg were an influential movement in the 1820s…

:>) ….sorry if anybody feels ‘dated’…:>)

Mabel – It’s not that you’re old. I was a sheltered lad.

ChickenMan @ 298

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 294

a ‘lid of pot?’

I’m gonna score a lid man.

blockquote>

Wow. I’ve never heard that term before.

So, Chicknman — just how young are you?
Two people not recognizing the phrase makes me feel re-e-ealy OLD.

oddmommy, it will put the coding for the neat little boxes – you will see this coding as the word blockquote

also, use the preview button – the neat boxes don’t appear where you type – the code works after you click the submit comment or the preview button will show you what your comment will look like

hey being sheltered has some advantages….he said…having never wanted to be sheltered…but seeing shelter as a ‘good thing’…

and then we ride…
a shelterland pony….

Mabel’s Wig Shack @
290

RevDeb @ 232

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 210

Feingold – Kuchinich 08 !!!!!
campaign theme:

We May Lose but We’ll Lose with a Department of Peace!!! What have you got suckers? You talkin’ to me?

When I found out that Dennis had a pre-election conversion to the pro-choice position when he ran for house that popped him off all my lists. That he could ever have been anti-choice and then changed for political reasons frosts me. Kos had a piece on him a couple of weeks ago with quite the laundry list, none too flattering. Sorry.

Kos is a great blog but he sort of has an over the top reaction to Kuchinich I think… I don’t think he’s completely privy to all of Dennis’s inner thoughts…

As nuch as I don’t agree with Kos’ bashing of Dennis, Dennis has a bad habit of shooting himself in the foot.

Hugh @
267

LoudounLib @ 247

•Joseph DiGenova: Former United States attorney

Feh

Isn’t he Mr. Victoria Toensing?

Yes, he is.

Glad to see someone take it to Bill “I Wanna Be a Republican” Clinton. Clinton’s 1990 strategy of triangulation, trashing (or “sister souljahing”) the base, and helping the GOP (in the name of “centrism”) is not going to work this time. The Democrats are way too fed up with the BS.

Rob Zuber @
257

My personal fantasy ticket is Feingold / Franken. The serious plus snark ticket!

I could seriously go for that. Franken wants to continue the Wellstone tradition. Maybe Franken can get Pearl Jam to play a fundraiser for him. They played one for Jon Tester, and I know the bassist for Pearl Jam still has a Wellstone bumper sticker on his bass.

oddmommy

OT…..I’m a novice here……and a techno-retard……how DO you get the comment you are responding to into the little box??? Clicking “quote this comment” doesn’t work.

quote box doesn’t work for me either—

i was taught to copy the text i want to box, then go to comment box,

then hit quote (will say blockquote), paste my comment, then hit quote button again(will say blockquote again)……..the comment you want in the box has to be inbetween the blockquote tags

then i type the name before the ‘blockquote’ parameters and my comment after them……

you’ll get the hang of it…….someone suggested one day to someone to practice in an old thread till you get the hang of it, but i think you can do ok

g’night all

Lieberman is Hillary’s DLC buddy. And Obama wanted nothing to do with DLC.
And we dislike Hillary for so many reasons it’s hard to list all of them.
With leadership, well, since Oct. she’s pretty much been playing ‘me too’ to anything Obama does. To me that is following not leading. Obama is the one leading.
Bill needs to quit whining and bitching and realize that we want change. complete change and Hillary is not change.

AirportCat @
133

I do have at least one problem with Al Gore: Tipper. I remember the PMRC. The best thing to come out of that fiasco was Frank Zappa’s testimony before Congress.

But it can’t beat Zappa taking on Novak on Crossfire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ISil7IHzxc

I’m a youthful 41.

BEES. Not the BeeGees. BEES.

AgBusiness Giants like ADM have made huge donations to BushCheney. They have made an equally huge bet on genetically modified crops.

To paraphrase Conan Doyle, I draw your attention to the curious incident of the bees in the night-time. The bees did nothing in the night-time. That was the curious incident. (Apt, given Sherlock’s avocation in retirement.)

Research reports suggest that AgriBusiness giants’ genetically modified crops – such as those that contain foreign genes that result in crops killing pests that usually feed on them – may inadvertently be killing thousands of bee hives, especially on the US East and West coasts. Also in Europe.

No bees. No crops. No food. No joke. Google it. Compare, especially, the differential bee deaths in the US v. Europe, which plants a tiny fraction of the GM crops allowed in the US.

mbbsdphil-kirk murphy commented on this earlier

kirk murphy says:
March 23rd, 2007 at 11:20 am

EPU’d

(last thread touched on the cancer epidemic in the US….)

Industrial ag’s serial poisonings and vicious practices threaten us all….wildlife, pets, bees – all of us.

The results include lakes of pig shit fouling streams and rivers, reproductive difficulties, developmental disorders, cognitive impairment, cancer survivors and those who perish from cancer….

We see an epidemic of cancers now “common” which were vanishingly rare a century ago.

Now, one-third of women and one-quarter of men can expect to have cancer in their lifetime.

Humans have pretty much the same genes we collectively had a century ago.

THE INCREASE IS NOT GENETIC.

The massive increase in (non-tobacco) cancers exactly parallels the introduction of synthetic pesticides and similar industrial toxins in the post-WW II period. Within a generation, US cancer incidence increased.

Best info on this for laypeople is Sandra Steingraber’s lyrical book Living Downstream .

__________________________________________________

Today’s industrial ag victim: honeybees.

So who cares about honey when we have white sugar, right?

Er – uh – anyone who eats.

Those bees aren’t just filling up the little plastic squeezy bears on your breakfast table.

Without bees, we lose one-third of our food supply.

Gone.

Bees aren’t just used to produce honey. They play a vital role in the food chain, helping to pollinate one-third of food crops. In California, more than 50 crops — from almonds to avocados to squash — with a gross value of $6 billion are pollinated by bees, said Eric Mussen, a bee expert at UC Davis.

Mussen said it’s possible recent cold, dry weather that squelched the life out of plants that produce pollen and nectar to keep bees healthy could have left bees even more vulnerable to whatever is killing them.

Press-Enterprise

Oops – turns out industrial ag’s GMO crops with BT (bacillicus thuringiensis toxin) help kill honeybees.

BT is a toxin found in soil microbes – not found in the honeybees’ natural diet.

The honeybees go to the flowers, not the soil.

Industrial ag’s genetically modified organisms (GMO’s) include plants that make BT toxin, ’cause some Frakenstein put soil bacteria genes in our food crops.

Turns out the Frankenfoods with BT help kill off honeybees.

Walter Haefeker, the German beekeeping official, speculates that “besides a number of other factors,” the fact that genetically modified, insect-resistant plants are now used in 40 percent of cornfields in the United States could be playing a role. The figure is much lower in Germany — only 0.06 percent — and most of that occurs in the eastern states of Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania and Brandenburg. Haefeker recently sent a researcher at the CCD Working Group some data from a bee study that he has long felt shows a possible connection between genetic engineering and diseases in bees.

The study in question is a small research project conducted at the University of Jena from 2001 to 2004. The researchers examined the effects of pollen from a genetically modified maize variant called “Bt corn” on bees. A gene from a soil bacterium had been inserted into the corn that enabled the plant to produce an agent that is toxic to insect pests. The study concluded that there was no evidence of a “toxic effect of Bt corn on healthy honeybee populations.” But when, by sheer chance, the bees used in the experiments were infested with a parasite, something eerie happened. According to the Jena study, a “significantly stronger decline in the number of bees” occurred among the insects that had been fed a highly concentrated Bt poison feed.

According to Hans-Hinrich Kaatz, a professor at the University of Halle in eastern Germany and the director of the study, the bacterial toxin in the genetically modified corn may have “altered the surface of the bee’s intestines, sufficiently weakening the bees to allow the parasites to gain entry — or perhaps it was the other way around. We don’t know.”

Der Spiegel – h/t Raw.

Wonder what BT crops and other Frankenfoods on our dinner plates do to us?

Keep wondering – the FDA never bothered to answer the question.

The FDA scarcely looked.

Bon appetit – while you still can.

Without the bees, we’ll all be hungry.

extra nerd credit –

Unlike typical nerve-poison insecticides, Bt acts by producing proteins (delta-endotoxin, the “toxic crystal”) that reacts with the cells of the gut lining of susceptible insects. These Bt proteins paralyze the digestive system, and the infected insect stops feeding within hours. Bt-affected insects generally die from starvation, which can take several days.

Occasionally, the bacteria enter the insect’s blood and reproduce within the insect. However, in most insects it is the reaction of the protein crystal that is lethal to the insect. Even dead bacteria containing the proteins are effective insecticides.

thanks Colorado State U Ag ext for the mechanism

there was a link to col state u ag on original

Why is anyone surprised that Bill Clinton is covering for Hillary’s pathetic stance on the war?

Together they compromised the Democratic party to advance a corporate agenda and their personal careers. Bill has his good points, but good God in heaven, can we dispense with the willful ignorance that keeps people thinking that either Bill or Hillary are liberals?

Please?

Rayne @
273

RevDeb @ 259

Sounds like a new toaster maybe?

No, he actually wants his toast blackened. Can’t see spending more money on the same result, even though I wouldn’t deny getting a Dualit would be groovy.

egregious @ 260

Everyone needs a Life Dream.
And frankly we’d like to learn more about how the ex did it.

I’m pretty sure being an inutterably whiny, selfish wench had something to do with it. Cripes, I’d just about give her anything myself to get her to stop with that nasal whining. That, and withholding sex. I’m not so good at either whining or withholding, think both are inhuman things to do to one’s life partner.

Well if he likes burnt toast, he likes burnt toast. Why bother to fuss with it? And personally I never quite got the concept of the ol’ vaginal wrench…bitin’ off your nose to spite your face as far as I can see. Musta’ missed some lesson somewhere.

Thanks for the site. I’ve read several of the cited articles and others, which is why I’ve repeated the warning.

Given the lobbying power of AgriBusiness and the huge bet they’ve made on GM crops, this could be a major problem within a few years, rather than decades, as with global warming. We can’t even get the Bush Admin. to admit the science of that, or even something simpler, such as the science of ergonomics.

what sucks is I don’t believe for a second that Hillary really is the centrist she’s trying to make herself out to be. It’s just the only election strategy she knows. Unfortunately for her there really aren’t that many centrist left. I’m nearly positive the base of America is the far left. Why don’t we call her and let her know that and that we think she’s pandering and really isn’t taking the stances she says.

I hope that Hillary wakes up to the fact that people want someone “real” this time around. She ranks #1 as the greatest political kabuki dancer around, barely nudging out McCain as someone who will say(or not say)or do anything to get elected. What worked in Bill’s time (pre-Iraq) is simply not going to cut it. Jane nailed it.

What’s funny is that Bill was the fresh new face in 92–as Obama is now. Hillary is not, and her policies and ideas certainly are not.

I want Edwards–both him and her : >

Off subject but no where else to put it:

Wow! If you didn’t see Bill Maher’s Real Time tonight on HBO, you must make a point to see it — esp. his closing remarks. Eloquent!

He spent most of the time defending Valerie and Joe Wilson, talking about what patriots they are, how they’ve been wronged, how it is
T-R-E-A-S-O-N, etc. etc. I was cheering….and clapping….and stomping my feet! WOW!

And, the expression on David Frum’s face (on the panel tonight) when he was finished….. PRICELESS!!!

All of you here — really MUST see it!

Jima @ 322

I hope that Hillary wakes up to the fact that people want someone “real” this time around. She ranks #1 as the greatest political kabuki dancer around, barely nudging out McCain as someone who will say(or not say)or do anything to get elected. What worked in Bill’s time (pre-Iraq) is simply not going to cut it. Jane nailed it.

Thanks. It’s true, too. Bill’s triangulation cost the Democrats dearly, because he would always do what was best for him, party 2nd, and the party suffered. I don’t know if Bill would have gotten elected without Perot in the race. His political strategists, Carville and Begala, aren’t the brightest bulbs either (and are both working for Hillary).

Bottom Line: the Clintons don’t understand the power of the internet … oops, I mean the “anti-war crowd on the internet.”

They are too far behind and are campaigning like it’s 1996.

Sorry, Bubba and Hil … that was 10 loooong years ago …..

Elizabeth Edwards GETS it. The Clintons don’t.

Antiwar people occupied Senator Clinton’s Manhattan office the day before the authorization vote, but they couldn’t get a commitment from her staff. The next day, her statement on the Senate floor began as if she intended to vote against authorization. But then she voted for it. She’s never explained why.

Maybe there’s more nuance here than I’m capable of understanding. However, I just lost interest in her career. Too bad New York didn’t have a surplus of candidates to challenge her re-election in 2006. I’d have voted for almost any of them.

Observation:
1. If Hillary voted for this war and her inability to say it was a mistake is all it takes for me. She is not qualified, has not enough wisdom to be president.

2. When she talks she is trying to make you believe she is in earnest, which tells me she is not giving us all the picture, and that she is just speaking in terms of what she has been advised to say by the various spin merchants she employs.

3. She can’t win, I may be mistaken but I don’t think she can pull it off, there is too much of a bullshit factor in her and not enough substance. Gee I am typing words……zzzzzzzzz

Siun @
46

sigh …. happen to like Sista Souljah!

She’s done great work with young women.

Siun — I so agree.
And this whole Gore thing is getting to be a real bore. It’s like some surreal flick where there’s No Exit from the endless carousel of dynasty politicians. Yeah, it’s great his using the bully pulpit and all for drawing attention to the Big Fry, but there were a lot of others out there screaming in the wilderness about the mess modernization was making long before he was.
Here’s an idea: how about no one over 30 gets to vote for the next Prez? Then let’s see what we get — after all, if the world continues to spin on its axis, they’re the ones that will be facing the biggest blowback ever.

Bill, your wife’s inability to admit error is the problem…

“What mistakes have you made?” is a question Every candidate from dogcatcher to el Presidente must be FORCED to answer in the future or we won’t have one.

Notice she has to use the big gun (Bubba) to campaign for her, as if their juxtaposition has to be ingrained in our minds. I say poo to her.

Triangulation may have made sense in 1992. But it seems that in Clinton/DLC/TNR-world, the success of triangulation in 1992, the crushing of universal health care in 1994, and the ’smallball’ win of 1996 still define the proper Dem approach to politics.

It isn’t the mid-1990s anymore, but the ‘centrist’ Dems haven’t learned that yet.

However, based on the supporting link, I’d hardly describe Clinton’s comments on Larry King as a ‘trashing’ of Lamont. According to Tagaris, Clinton said he’d be good with either Lamont or Lieberman winning. He had no business saying that, but it still doesn’t constitute a ‘trashing’ of anyone.

When has Obama confronted Boy King? Saying that Bush has strengthened the hand of Iran — that’s a safe one.

Boy King gets confronted by 4 politicians: Kucinich, Rocky Anderson, Pelosi, and Gore. Isn’t that about it?

Oh Bubba, what were you thinking? Our lunch…it was so beautiful…are we being “Sistah Souljah’d” already?

First, he fed you, sized you all up, discounted and dismissed all of you, and now he’s fucking you over. Typical Clinton, which is why no Clinton will ever get my vote. Bubba and Bubbette can go vote for more NAFTA and WTO while they support traitor Joe, attack welfare babies and protect their corporate donors. Hear me Bubba! Hillary will NEVER get my vote.

Your claim that Bill Clinton trashed Ned Lamont on Larry King is not supported at the link you provide to Daily Kos…in fact Kos’ own tamer comment is not supported by the facts he gives. Quoting Kos:
“President Clinton, on the other hand, probably provided the singular destructive post-primary moment of anyone outside the campaign. He provided every national Democrat the cover they needed to stay out of the race in one single moment on Larry King Live. He said he wasn’t too concerned about who won the election between Ned and Joe. Mind you, this was post-primary…”

Realy now, Bill Clinton saying that after Ned won the primary that he wasn’t too concerned about which man won, just doesn’t do what either you or Kos claim. And your claim he “trashed” Lamont is just bogus.

Lacy @
335

Your claim that Bill Clinton trashed Ned Lamont on Larry King is not supported at the link you provide to Daily Kos…in fact Kos’ own tamer comment is not supported by the facts he gives. Quoting Kos:
“President Clinton, on the other hand, probably provided the singular destructive post-primary moment of anyone outside the campaign. He provided every national Democrat the cover they needed to stay out of the race in one single moment on Larry King Live. He said he wasn’t too concerned about who won the election between Ned and Joe. Mind you, this was post-primary…”

Realy now, Bill Clinton saying that after Ned won the primary that he wasn’t too concerned about which man won, just doesn’t do what either you or Kos claim. And your claim he “trashed” Lamont is just bogus.

Every link is not going to give an encyclopedic rundown of the events that happened. Feel free to look into the story a little closer, it was actually a big controversy at the time that you must’ve missed. Bill Clinton’s words on Larry King gave permission to every big Democrat to deny support to the duly elected Democratic candidate and back, either tacitly or openly, the CFL candidate.

Sometimes we assume we’re writing for those who follow events closely and we’re not always correct in that assumption, but it doesn’t alter reality.

We have republican lite Bill to thank for all the ‘made in china’ crap filling our closets and shelves. And a real big thank you for helping ship american industry and jobs to China. American wages depressed, job lost, industry lost, unions weakened, US Citizens indentured servitude to China as we borrow, spend and rack up staggering debt. “Clinton said the US-China agreement on China’s entry into WTO reached at the end of last year was “a good deal for America” as American products will gain better access to China’s market in every sector, from agriculture to telecommunications to automobiles.”
http://english.people.com.cn/e…..1W137.html
China won as greedy corporate CEO’s packed up their companies and moved to China for slave labor.

And then there’s NAFTA…….

She’s gotcha on an awful short leash, hey Bubba?

Jane Hamsher @ 336

Lacy @
335

Your claim that Bill Clinton trashed Ned Lamont on Larry King is not supported at the link you provide to Daily Kos…in fact Kos’ own tamer comment is not supported by the facts he gives. Quoting Kos:
“President Clinton, on the other hand, probably provided the singular destructive post-primary moment of anyone outside the campaign. He provided every national Democrat the cover they needed to stay out of the race in one single moment on Larry King Live. He said he wasn’t too concerned about who won the election between Ned and Joe. Mind you, this was post-primary…”

Really now, Bill Clinton saying that after Ned won the primary that he wasn’t too concerned about which man won, just doesn’t do what either you or Kos claim. And your claim he “trashed” Lamont is just bogus.

Every link is not going to give an encyclopedic rundown of the events that happened. Feel free to look into the story a little closer, it was actually a big controversy at the time that you must’ve missed. Bill Clinton’s words on Larry King gave permission to every big Democrat to deny support to the duly elected Democratic candidate and back, either tacitly or openly, the CFL candidate.

Sometimes we assume we’re writing for those who follow events closely and we’re not always correct in that assumption, but it doesn’t alter reality.

I’m a supporter here, but I follow events very closely, and reality is my specialty. Bill Clinton gave somewhat qualified support to Ted Lamont in that Larry King program (CNN transcript below), but absolutely did not trash him as incorrectly claimed. The “netroots” did want a strident rebuff of Lieberman by WJC, and maybe that would have influenced some prominent Democratic leaders to attack Lieberman, and as a result we could maybe now thank them all for the Lieberman switch and a GOP Senate. Reality is that the more prominent Democrats trashed Lamont, the more CT Republicans would have turned out to make Lieberman win. Clinton played it middle of the road possibly for that very reason. Quoting:

KING: What do you make of the Lieberman race?

CLINTON: It’s a complicated thing. There were reasons other than Iraq which caused problems, and now it seems to me that there are reasons other than Iraq which are muddying the water there. But, you know …

(CROSSTALK)

CLINTON: …most of the independent voters are against our Iraq policy, but most of the Republican voters are for it. So it just depends on how many Republican votes Joe gets, as opposed to the Republican nominee, and how many independent and Democratic votes Lamont gets. It’s really sort of an unpredictable race.

KING: Are you supporting Lamont?

CLINTON: I am but, you know, my — I don’t have the same view of this as some people do. My view is Connecticut is an unmitigated blessing for the Democrats because Lieberman has said if he wins he’s going to vote with us to organize the Senate. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRA…..kl.01.html

Lacy — Clinton did a lot to undermine Lamont, both before the primary and after. His basic message to Connecticut was that the war on Iraq was not important enough to decide how to vote, so CT voters should not reject Lieberman merely because he supported the war. That position was calculated to help Hillary, because she was in the same position as Lieberman in support for the war. Clinton thus hurt anti-war dems all over the country, not just Lamont, and he discouraged Dem voters from voting for Dems vs Republicans based solely on the war.

Clinton then allowed himself to be used in expensive robo-calling efforts in CT, all designed to help Lieberman win and/or lose by a small amount. That had the effect of encouraging Lieberman to remain in the race as an independent. This too was designed to help Hillary, because if Lieberman could be beaten by an anti-war candidate in CT, then Hillary was also vulnerable in a natinal election. So Bill did everything he could to make sure the war was not an issue on which Dems would determine their votes.

That selfish strategy turned out to be the opposite of what was best for the Dems being able to retake the Senate and House, but it was the best strategy for Hillary. Bottom line, Bill undercut his own party to help his wife, and in doing so helped prolong the war and defeat anti-war candidates, mostly Dems.

What Clinton did after the primary was consistent with this pre-primary pro-Hillary strategy. He had to convince voters nationally, not just in CT, that they should not vote against candidates based on their pro-war stance — so when he told Larry King that CT were in the happy position of being okay even if Lieberman won, he was undercutting not just Lamont but all Democrats running against pro-war republicans.

Clinton trashed everyone who thought the war was important; he undermined Lamont at every step; he enabled Lieberman’s independent run and now we are saddled with Lieberman’s blackmailing the Senate Democrats with his monthly threats to bolt the party. Clinton trashed principle, trashed the Democratic party, trashed anti-war candidates including Lamont.

Now he is doing it again, this time with Obama. He’s saying again that there is no great difference in candidates on the war issue, so voters should not judge on that basis. It’s the same message and the same motive.

Interestingly, almost 60% of Senate Democrats voted for the Oct 2002 resolution. And even more Democrats voted to shut off Robert Byrd’s filibuster of the bill. So for all of us, backing many so-called “supporters of the war” was necessary just to back most Senate Democrats. Denouncing those who voted for the resolution would be suicidal for a Democrat. And WJC is not politically foolish. The confabulation that WJC was “protecting Hillary” somehow is stretching to make a questionable point.

I deeply admire those who did vote against that bill as I advised them to do. But many Americans only a year after 9-11 simply did not perceive the diabolical nature of GWB. And, in fact, H. Clinton is one of the few who is on record with a Senate speech just prior to that vote that shows her understanding and expectations from GWB. I defy any objective person to read that speech and still say she wanted or was in favor of what GWB did.

Meanwhile, the issue I brought up here was the claim that WJC “trashed Lamont” on Larry King. I posted a link and quote that disputes that. Everything said by WJC is online. So why not just put up a link, or admit the error like honorable people would do. And the fact WJC did not say what the “netroots” supposedly wanted does not change what he said. Not in the world of reality.

Until that AIPAC speech, she was my candidate.

Now, the only way Hill would ever get my vote or support would be if she was somehow able to win the primary.
In that case, any Dem will do.

Gore/Obama or Richardson ‘08

http://clinton.senate.gov/spee…..01002.html
Link to Hillary Clinton’s Senate speech the day prior to the resolution vote Oct 2002. This vote led to the UN Weapons Inspectors reentering Iraq Nov 2002 and finding there were no WMDs. GWB invaded anyway.

Lacy @
339

Jane Hamsher @ 336

Lacy @
335

Your claim that Bill Clinton trashed Ned Lamont on Larry King is not supported at the link you provide to Daily Kos…in fact Kos’ own tamer comment is not supported by the facts he gives. Quoting Kos:
“President Clinton, on the other hand, probably provided the singular destructive post-primary moment of anyone outside the campaign. He provided every national Democrat the cover they needed to stay out of the race in one single moment on Larry King Live. He said he wasn’t too concerned about who won the election between Ned and Joe. Mind you, this was post-primary…”

Really now, Bill Clinton saying that after Ned won the primary that he wasn’t too concerned about which man won, just doesn’t do what either you or Kos claim. And your claim he “trashed” Lamont is just bogus.

Every link is not going to give an encyclopedic rundown of the events that happened. Feel free to look into the story a little closer, it was actually a big controversy at the time that you must’ve missed. Bill Clinton’s words on Larry King gave permission to every big Democrat to deny support to the duly elected Democratic candidate and back, either tacitly or openly, the CFL candidate.

Sometimes we assume we’re writing for those who follow events closely and we’re not always correct in that assumption, but it doesn’t alter reality.

I’m a supporter here, but I follow events very closely, and reality is my specialty. Bill Clinton gave somewhat qualified support to Ted Lamont in that Larry King program (CNN transcript below), but absolutely did not trash him as incorrectly claimed. The “netroots” did want a strident rebuff of Lieberman by WJC, and maybe that would have influenced some prominent Democratic leaders to attack Lieberman, and as a result we could maybe now thank them all for the Lieberman switch and a GOP Senate. Reality is that the more prominent Democrats trashed Lamont, the more CT Republicans would have turned out to make Lieberman win. Clinton played it middle of the road possibly for that very reason. Quoting:

KING: What do you make of the Lieberman race?

CLINTON: It’s a complicated thing. There were reasons other than Iraq which caused problems, and now it seems to me that there are reasons other than Iraq which are muddying the water there. But, you know …

(CROSSTALK)

CLINTON: …most of the independent voters are against our Iraq policy, but most of the Republican voters are for it. So it just depends on how many Republican votes Joe gets, as opposed to the Republican nominee, and how many independent and Democratic votes Lamont gets. It’s really sort of an unpredictable race.

KING: Are you supporting Lamont?

CLINTON: I am but, you know, my — I don’t have the same view of this as some people do. My view is Connecticut is an unmitigated blessing for the Democrats because Lieberman has said if he wins he’s going to vote with us to organize the Senate. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRA…..kl.01.html

The name is “Ned” Lamont. Not “Ted.”

Bill Clinton was defending Hillary. So what? She’s been crucified for a vote that carried many conditions before hostilities could occur. All the bluster has made it hard for media and even blogmasters to listen and understand that. She’s strong, well-informed and capable of promoting more progressive programs if elected. Bill would have moved much faster in that area, had he not been impeached for 2 years. He paid the price. Hillary is a policy wonk and can work accross the aisle. She will be more successful because she knows how to play the game. The world is a dangerous place and the left is frothing at the mouth. Milktoasts need not apply.

Lacy says: “Interestingly, almost 60% of Senate Democrats voted for the Oct 2002 resolution…“

And a majority of Democrats in the House voted down the October 2002 resolution – your point?

“…And even more Democrats voted to shut off Robert Byrd’s filibuster of the bill…”

The filibuster with DLC Lieberman working behind the scenes isn’t significant imo. But, the amendments presented to the floor were significant? Why not discuss them rather than fly to the conclusion that —

“…Denouncing those who voted for the resolution would be suicidal for a Democrat…” Huh ???

It’s more than admiration you should be giving to those that voted no … it should be recognization of their damn GOOD JUDGMENT, in fiscal accountability, military strategy, even Patriotism, rather than … ?

I suggest it is you that looks closer at what was happening with Hillary and the rest of the DLC during those months where the PNAC’ers were laying the foundations for war.

I dare you to compare and contrast what the blank check war resolution was going to allow Bush to do (confirmed a) by his immediate actions, and more importantly actions PREDICTED by the NO voters), versus what her floor speech thought/hoped the resolution would allow him to do!

Look up the fierce debates (er… more than just Byrd’s) — esp. Levin’s. Levin, who was on the Intelligence and Armed Services Committee at the time who VOTED NO…,,,

He was just ONE of many – both in the Senate & House that saw the truck sized loopholes in that pre-emptive, without threat, regime change invasion resolution.

Hillary and the other DLC’ers weren’t duped they went along for the ride and got screwed when the mission appeared to fail miserably? An expensive judgment call, both in lives, reputation and money (ours).

Statement of Senator Carl Levin (D-MI) Final Passage of Lieberman Amendment
http://www.senate.gov/~levin/n…..?id=210045

Also, imo some particularly interesting exchanges between Tenet and Levin (pages 80-82…) (note. large pdf)

SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE
FEBRUARY 11, 2003
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.go…..7.wais.pdf

(August 20, 2002)Wes Clark: “…Privately even the hawks within the US government lobbying for war acknowledged that President Saddam was no threat to America, according to the general…”

If Wes Clark knew what the Administration were up to who the hell else do you think knew, and was even in ’slam-dunk’ agreement with?

Nah… I don’t want her anywhere near our foreign policy with possible plans to hit Iran next (shiver). Plus, her close friendship with the ‘current’ Israeli neo-con crowd, and the fact that at one stage she and Shumer were hesitating whether to filibuster John Bolton for the job at UN (…I didn’t want a Lebanon cease-fire… John Bolton ) – just plain creeps me out!

Bill appears to be getting more involved in the campaign because Hillary is just too clueless. You could see that in the response to Geffen when he pointed out what liars the Clinton crooks are.