
Yesterday, a defiant George Bush insulted, mocked and dared Conressional Democrats to issue subpoenas to White House aides over the investigation into his firing of eight US Attorneys. In the process, he signalled that he was circling the White House wagons around Karl Rove, while making Attorney General Gonzales stand on the perimeter to fight off the enemy, some of whom look curiously like Republicans. Should Gonzales worry more about arrows coming from outside or inside the circle? From yesterday's New York Times:
WASHINGTON, March 20 — President Bush and Senate Democrats clashed angrily this afternoon, as the president said he would not allow his key aides to testify under oath about the dismissal of United States attorneys, while the Democrats insisted they would settle for no less.Mr. Bush reiterated his support for his embattled attorney general, Alberto R. Gonzales, and said Mr. Gonzales would testify before the appropriate legislative committees. But Mr. Bush said he would only allow close White House aides to be interviewed privately by the lawmakers rather than be placed under oath.
“We will not go along with a partisan fishing expedition aimed at honorable public servants,” Mr. Bush said, vowing to fight any attempt by Congress to subpoena his top political adviser, Karl Rove; the former White House counsel Harriet E. Miers and others.
“Initial response by Democrats, unfortunately, shows some appear more interested in scoring political points than in learning the facts,” Mr. Bush said. “It will be regrettable if they choose to head down the partisan road of issuing subpoenas and demanding show trials when I have agreed to make key White House officials and documents available.”
Those e-mails we've been following only partly reveal the roles of Rove, White House Counsel Harriet Miers, and others in the WH; they apparently do not reveal the conversations the WH officials had internally with each other or with the President about the reasons for the USA firings and who actually made or influenced the decisions about who would be fired. That's what the Democrats want to know, because they're convinced that the firing decisions were motivated by the desire to remove USAs who showed either excessive zeal in prosecuting Republicans (as in Lam nailing Cunningham and threatening Lewis) or insufficient zeal in going after Democrats.
The President's offer is calculated to inflame the Democrats: Rove and his WH colleagues may be privately interviewed without recordings, but they will not respond to subpoenas nor testify in public or under oath. Jane explained how that works.
The Democrats will likely take the bait and move forward with subpoenas, because they can hardly back down after proclaiming that nothing short of testifying under oath would do. Do they know where they're going next?
As I mused last week, we may be looking at the opening moves of the end game that determines whether we are headed towards impeachment and/or possible resignation or whether the President's protectors can forestall that and "run out the clock," not just with the US Attorney investigation, as Kyle Sampson suggested in one of his e-mails, but with the entire Bush presidency.
I'm still surprised that of all the lies, crimes and outrages in the Bush/Cheney regime, the USA matter could become the vehicle for the Bush vs Congressional confrontation. The firings may yet become the major scandal we all suspect it is, a key piece of the political subversion of the Justice Department, but getting the underlying facts to support obstruction of justice charges will take more digging and some luck. And the President's end-game counsel, Fred Fielding, may well be betting Bush's presidency on the hope that there's not enough there there to take down a President. My guess is that he'd rather take his chances on this issue than the more obvious lawbreaking still being committed by, e.g., the FBI and NSA and the interrogators at Guantanamo.
There's no reason why the Democrats should allow the White House to define the playing field or limit the issues they can explore via White House subpoenas. My hope, FWIW, is that the Democrats announce they intend to use the full extent of Congress' investigative powers across the entire spectrum of Administration lawbreaking. Why not, for example, announce a broad investigation over the abuse of justice and disregard of the rule of law in the Bush/Gonzales Justice Department, and then fold the firing of the US Attorneys into that broader investigation. If the issue of subpoenas is headed to the Supreme Court, let the justices see the full pattern of lawnessness, including the DOJ's manipulation of the courts in the detention and NSA cases, the FBI's abuse of national security letters, Gonzales' complicity in quashing any investigation into the DoJ's role in NSA spying, the failure to pursue Rove's role in the Plame outing and on and on . . . Show them the whole egregious pile and then suggest we need to know whether Rove is one of the ponies, part of a pattern of coverups, not just whether Karl Rove should testify in public about the firing of US attorneys. To get the public behind them, the Democrats need to reveal the full picture of DOJ's lawlessness and show the USA matter was part of this broader pattern -- just as though they were laying the groundwork for an impeachment resolution, whether for Gonzales or Bush.
As Atrios notes we've been here before. More from digby and Glenn Greenwald, and a NYT editorial.
UPDATE: (h/t Frank Probst) Josh's rakers find an 18-day gap! Oh, Rosemary!
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thank you scarecrow, i was hoping you would expand on the comments you made yesterday!
Bring it on, Chimpy!
Hang on commenters, I need to get coffee.
How about a little fire, Scarecrow?
Josh already has the scoop. Those 3000 pages of e-mails have an 18 day gap in them.
Good Morning, Firepups,
Heading off to work. There’s a big pot of coffee, and Marion in Savannah baked banana bread for all of us, near the end of the last thread. Many thanks to all the diligent readers in Left Blogosphere for finding more reasons why this is the worst administration ever.
Help yourselves to coffee.
Work for peace, every day.
Mornin’ scarecrow.
You’re in good form today.
I’m still wrestling with Mary’s observation that only the President has the authority to fire USA’s.
Why is there a question of Bush knowing? It would be worse if he didn’t know, then they were fired illegally imho. Perhaps they should be rehired on the spot.
this issue has two things going for it that other issues (fbi and nsa lawbreaking) do not:
first, “national security” can’t be used as an excuse to refuse to honor subpoenas.
second, since republicans were the target, this issue is likely to be a wedge that will separate some republicans from the bush/cheney adminstration.
i wish outrages were judged on merits other than these (like lawlessness, the constitution, values trashed…) but that doesn’t seem to be the case.
Great post, particularly about Pres defining playing field and Dems taking bait. I’d kept thinking about be careful what you pray for - you might get it.
I’d love to get the whole sordid mess before cameras, multiple hearings day after day, witnesses hauled up and down Congress’ steps, newspaper, nightly reports about graft, corruption, theft. Government contractor fraud. Bush “Ranger” fundraisers and government contracts and hookers at the Watergate. Saudis flying out unquestioned by the FBI 9/12. And on and on. Broader scope’s a good idea. Let overwhelming weight of their criminality crush ‘em.
Because we haven’t seen the ugliest, yet. Not be a freaking long shot. Endless Congressional hearings under klieg lights a la Ollie North would be great.
Morning scarecrow! I was reading the post, but I hiccupped over, “then the more obvious lawbreaking “. Should be, “than the more obvious…” Sorry to be such a stickler. Delete this is you want.
Can we figure out the new talking point of the day? I’m guessing “show trials” now that “overreaching” has run its course.
Then we can amuse ourselves by seeing how many media people and politicians use the phrase in a 24-hour period.
If we get good we can try to anticipate the new propaganda.
from atrios’ post, it looks like nixon refused to honor a bunch subpoenas issued over months. maybe we are about to see only the first ones that president bush will not honor?
very well-put, scarecrow!
i think we, as a nation, are arriving
at a turning point this week.
so, let us compare and contrast, shall we:
“. . .I’m not going to let anybody come down at night like Nicodemus and whisper something in my ear that no one else can hear. That is not executive privilege; it is poppycock. . .”
– senator sam ervin, then the
chair of the senate select committee
investigating the watergate scandal
– vice president cheney, december 2005
[it is easy to recognize the rotting
fruit that fell from the above tree yesterday. . .]
i’ll have much more here, in a moment,
on all of this, related to yours, but. . .
at stake — being decided anew, for this
generation — is the continued vitality of
the idea that a transparent and accountable
presidency is part of the constitutional fabric
of our nation. that fabric was quite notoriously
tattered by president nixon during the watergate
break-in, and subsequent cover-up. the fabric
was only later mended by a bevy of legislative
reforms in the middle- to late-1970s.
mr. bush, somewhat disingenuously, it seems, has
asserted, without much logical foundation, that he
will be unable to obtain good advice if his people
may ultimately have to tell the truth about what
they said, after the fact. . . frankly, i don’t
get it — how is public veracity antithetical to
sound advice-giving and -receiving? [i assume, of
course, that mr. bush would not seek advice on the
pursuit of unlawful, but otherwise undetectable,
courses of action. perhaps that is my problem.]
“poppycock” does seem apt, no?
Good morning all. Lovely day here. I think it’s March Madness at the WH. We’re at the “sweet 16″ level in narrowing down the bill of particulars.
Can you find the missing egregious?
Bush is a monster.
Lindy @ 9
Well, you don’t get credit for that, cause I saw and fixed it already. Keep reading.
I was a high school student back on the Watergate days, and from what I remember Nixon was hanging on frustratingly well through the burglary and the bribery and the corruption, it was when he fired the Special Prosecutor and was seen as intentionally obstructing justice that all hell broke loose. By placing himself in that same position, where he can be seen to be blocking the path of justice, President Bush has taken his own first step into the firestorm.
Yep, I’m afraid the only way to fix what ails us is to hammer Rove et al repeatedly and quickly. That does a couple of things: it keeps the issues front and center, patterns start to emerge and it doesn’t give Karl time to catch his breath so he can mutate.
Karl gets a lot of time outs. And in those time outs, he plants the PR seeds that save his ass. He calls in favors, disappears the hard drives and sets up a fall guy. We have to keep the game clock going. Don’t give him time to strategize. Keep him on his toes and come at him from several directions. He’ll be frazzled before long.
Frank Probst @
4
18??
Now that’s a funny coincidence. Too bad Rosemary Woods is not around to comment.
Scarecrow @ 15
I did, and it was good reading! Thanks :)
precisely. that is what sam ervin rightly
thundered about whispering at night, in
mine, a little up the thread. . .
BTW, what did the swing voter ever see in Bush? Why were his deficiencies so easy (glaring, actually) for us to spot? How do we educate people to not fall for a guy like him again? We can write off the 30%. They’re hopeless. But that vast middle group is just as likely to fall for Giuliani as they did for Bush. And Giuliani is just as bad, if not worse. I hope someone starts coming up with some good ideas ‘cos it’s not going to be enough to be a Democrat.
Morning all.
The Missus and I were discussing this issue on the train this morning, to the amusement of nearby passengers.
It’s our gut feeling that unless a smoking gun emerges, one that points the way to some law that has clearly been broken, the president will be able to hold off Congress, at least legally. So far, I have not seen any evidence of actual violation of any statute. Please correct me if I have missed something, and I am certainly not as up to date on this issue as some of the other readers here.
What the Attorney General did was messy, immoral, unethical, and improper, but at least for now, it appears it did not cross over into illegal. Some guidelines regarding handling of US attorneys and their tenures may have been violated in spirit, but I still believe the president has the letter of the law on his side.
If Bush can stand behind that analysis, he can hold off Congress and the Supreme Court. At some point it becomes a political question, one in which the central issue is focused on the proceedings and operations of a single branch of government. The Court has been deferential to allowing each branch to conduct its own affairs up until the point at which they intrude on the powers or affairs of other branches. Since the attorney firings involve the White House and DOJ, it all comes under the Executive Branch.
This is not to say it won’t come at some cost to the president. Right now, he is having to defend himself against fellow Republicans who are joining the fray in asking for testimony from Rove and Gonzales. That cannot be done without some cost, either to the president personally, in the form of future initiatives (or vetoes), or to the party, which GOP members of Congress are loathe to inflict.
In the end, Gonzales is gone, but probably not for another three to six months, allowing enough time for the scandal to fade out, and permitting a graceful exit.
Yes, Scarecrow, I think they are trying to goad the Democratic leadership into a premature reaction. It would be worthwhile to take the time to get more of this story out in public, and to make the subpoenas bi-partisan. This stuff is indefensible. Iglesias is speaking publicly, and clearly. Griffin says in a piece by Jane Mayer in the New Yorker, in not so many words, that he would resign rather than face confirmation hearings.
That’s where I’d start. Amend the patriot act to remove this provision and have some retroactive confirmation hearings. Keep this in the news.
Wondering about the time and topic of Waxman hearings today.
egregious @
10
Good morning all, from L.A.
Overworked talking point on the local news here this a.m. seems to be “fishing expedition” with & w/out the “partisan” modifier…
Just read an op-ed by David Iglesias in the NY Times defending himself, headline bringing to mind that of Joe Wilson’s famous piece:
Why I Was Fired
“It is more important to get the information promptly than to have months or years of litigation,” Specter said.
NBC News.
Well, if they want to avoid the wait, IMPEACH! No lines, no waiting. Only takes an hour.
Good Morning Scarecrow and Firedogs,
did y’all see this ?
David Yglesias on NYT Op Ed page
What I didn’t find in Albuquerque
today’s a big day.
at 10:15 the house judiciary committee is having a hearing to decide if subpoenas will be issued to bush administration officials. i think this is the view live webcast link, but if that doesn’t work the committee hearing webpage has it’s own link (if you want to watch it).
the senate committee on the judiciary is scheduled to meet thursday to consider authorizing subpoenas.
and of course today is al gore day… with him testifying before the house committee on science and technology, energy and environment (9:30am on c-span3) and the senate committee on the environment and public works (2pm on c-span3).
Frank Probst @
4
Is that serious, or a Watergate joke?
MSNBC running a crawl on Imus saying that Joe Lieberman is announcing he won’t rule out switching to the Repub Party.
Old news?
I read somewhere once a quote that always stuck with me The price of freedom - Constant vigilance and a constant willingness to fight;
their is no other price!
Here’s some similar points I made in an email:
Frank Probst — 18 days? That deserves an update: Oh, Rosemary!
cbl @
27
Hey cbl, great minds think alike ;)
jayt @ 28
The gap is serious. Lieberman is going to be saying this for as long as they will run the crawl. But he’s not going anywhere except the margins.
Good post scarecrow.
It’s up to the Republicans to solve this impasse and quickly.
While this may not break right in the MSM, few members of Congress could run in 2008 standing with this administration.
For six years there was no Congressional oversight.
Instead, America got an unfinished mission in Afghanistan, a depleted military being used as an occupying force in a civil war, a deficit that will plague the next generation, no energy policy, numerous Congressional lobbying scandals, a failure to respond to Katrina, cover-up of a predatory Congressman, human rights violations, attacks on the Bill of Rights, a flawed environmental policy, wounded and forgotten heroes and an executive branch that will condone the outing of covert American agents for personal retribution, use the justice system to win elections, punish passive dissent, and re-write laws in the dark of night to cover-up greater scandals.
Bush is being told to tilt at windmills until a new AG can be installed. The White House does not want this confrontation.
The majority does not want this confrontation.
And the minority really doesn’t want this confrontation.
The minority will broker a deal with a new AG making nice on the Hill or this will become bi-partisan effort to run against the unitary executive.
jwc @
22
I’m sorry. What part of Obstruction of Justice don’t you understand? It is crystal clear that the Administration responded to Lam’s subpoena of Dusty Foggo. Therefore, firing her is an attempt to limit the damage of Republican practices of selling of our national security contracts to the higest briber.
does a class action lawsuit fit the bill here since Rove has infringed upon the rights of ALL Americans? This bastard has been a subversive since the Nixon days.
What IS with this edit thing?
The two USA’s in LA who were involved in investigating Jerry Lewis is also an interesting situation. Both resigned voluntarily and were hired by an LA law firm for $1-1.5 million first year compensation pkgs. The law firm also represents Lewis. Smells like bribery and obstruction of justice to me.
Maybe the trumpeted idea of Lieberman switching parties is supposed to be a shiny object.
We ain’t buying it.
cbl—Mornin’, do you have the Waxman schedule for today? Thanks for the help.
Bugboy—Not sure what your question is, you can use Edit within the first five minutes after your comment posts. Mine is working ok.
jayt @ 29
Joe wants attention. As long as he doesn’t get it, he’ll continue to threaten to bolt. I say let him go.
Folks, the toobz are not feeling well, this a.m. My “quote this comment” function is not working, so you’re all safe.
G’morning, all. Been up since before dawn. Guts in a spin. Bad enough BushCo interferes with daytime hours. Now night time, too.
Somewhere over these days, someone wrote about subpoena blow-off and the AG’s role in that. Is Bush hanging on to Gonzales to protect his butt when push comes to shove? Is that why he hasn’t resigned yet? Is AG-squared in a position to yet do BushCo some good?
Perhaps GWB is running a reverse-executive-privilege thing?
Maybe he doesn’t want it coming out that nobody bothered to talk to him about this at all.
It’s been flaky rather than not working entirely.
Arrows from the inside are flying at a break neck speed, George. Might I suggest you soon fire someone higher up in your administration. Oh. That’s right. You are feriously loyal to your toadies. Then, perhaps, you could do something more unthinkable; ask daddy for some advice or channel Nixon and do the opposite of what he advises.
When I try to edit, the edit window is blank. Dunno what the problem is.
hah - Kris Jansing (MSNBC) leads w/ Anna Nicole Smith over the coming constitutional crisis. heh.
What you are suggesting is so right.
The whack-a-mole White House knows the value of keeping the focus narrow. It allows them to concentrate their resources on defending (usually by obscuring) a few miscreants who have been caught in a few cookie jars. Even when some justice is done–e.g., one or two bad boys slink off into well-compensated retirement–it is drained of its significance and has negligible impact on the conduct of the jolly pirates who remain in control of the marauding ship of state.
Widening the inquiry brings context and meaning into the process. To call the Cheney/Bush effect on the Justice Department and other branches of government politicization is a serious accusation, but it’s provable. What the secretive, paranoid Cheney/Bush administration has been up to goes beyond politicization to conspiracy and organized crime. Their behavior has signaled their malevolent intent from the day they set out to steal the 2000 election, and they have been acting guilty ever since.
The context provided by widening inquiry will illuminate what has been going on behind our backs and under our noses, and it will help us decide–as a severely wounded democracy–what we need to do to remedy the situation.
The context provided by widening inquiry will also help democrats to remain motivated when the going gets tough, because the lawlessness continues. Our future is being frittered away as our present is being dismantled. Our savings and investments are about to disappear in a puff of smoke, only to reappear miraculously in the pockets of this administration and its very select and perverted group of friends. And people–many of them members of our families, but most of them “noncombatants”–are dying.
That’s the context. Now go get ‘em.
so, does Conyers have the House Sergeant At Arms on speed dial yet?
Good morning, all. My two cents:
Leahy, Feinstein, and, yes, Schumer, need to get their sound bites right to capture the debate. As of now, some of the web news front pages are picking up on the “Bush says no to show trials” because that’s the catchiest bite out there. They need to study the nice little slogans that the Repubs used against Clinton in 1998. For example, we should be using, “What’s Bush got to hide?” and “Executive privilege is meant for national security not to protect Karl Rove.” Etc.
twolf -
Tks for the photo from last thread; left to take out the trash & pick up supplies from corner store. No solid confirmation of breed tho’ I still think too much hair for German shepard.
Balrog -
Gandalf = neither white nor gray *g*.
mornin’ egregious -
ooh lookee -
Senate Judiciary Comm.
Wednesday
3/21/07 10am
MISUSE OF PATRIOT ACT POWERS: THE INSPECTOR GENERAL’S FINDINGS
Hey Scarecrow–
Nice post. I lifted the last long paragraph and sent it to Leahy and Conyers, because it sums up really well how all this crap fits together, and provides a strategy that might work really well against these criminals in the WH. I sent the link to FDL to them both, also. I bet Conyers’ staffers already read FDL, and maybe Leahy’s too, but still.
I’ve been worried forever that W will declare martial law so he doesn’t have to leave office, so he can continue his war on terror bullshit. Do you think the generals would go after him in that case? Do you think we’d take to the streets? I’ve got a 21 year old and a soon-to-be 18 year old and I’m almost always worried under the surface about the country those bastards in the WH are trying to remake, for the sake of my young adult kids.
Scarecrow @ 32
Rosemary’s baby
Yo FireDogs — Just got back from a 2 week vaca in South America during which time I kept up as much as possible (via blogs like the blessedly informative FDL and the Gabbly.com/firedoglake.com realtime webchat) with the Libby trial, verdict and subsequent brouhahas about the USAttorney long-delayed-in-coming-to-public-notice scandal, upcoming subpoenas from Congress and the like.
Most of the good hotels we stayed at, even in South America, have free ‘net access. There were many times that I was chatting with other FDLers in the Gabbly chat window (To Gabble with other FDLers, set up a separate window from this one — point it at http://gabbly.com/firedoglake.com — and NEVER refresh that Gabbly window, while continuing to use and refresh this one normally) that the response time was just imperceptibly slower than when I’m home in MA! Truly our world has changed. Tnx to Rayne for publicizing Gabbly to FDL.
As I happily discovered from Chile, Argentina and Brazil, there’s still a bunch of FireDogs who congregate to chat “there” in the USA’s PM hours…
I kept telling the US citizens on my tour that they would be returning to a fundamentally changed America — because our ship of state is really turning away from the Bush side and is accelerating towards Truth and Justice, mercifully and finally.
And it looks like I was right (about our returning to a changed America)! It’s feeling more and more like Watergate’s denoument. When Rove is drawn and quartered in front of Leahy or Conyers or whoever dragoons him to sworn testimony before Congress — and that is inevitable given the clear Obstructions of Justice that he and the rest of the Bushies have been committing in this outrageous case (and thousands of others) — the game will be up.
We will have both Bush and Cheney’s impeachments and/or resignations real soon now.
You hoid it second here. (I know there’ve been many others who have predicted it too) :)
President Nancy, do right. :)
Has FDL gotten its well-deserved Pulitzer Prize yet? If not, why not?
(((JANE)))
emptywheel at 30: — all good points. We also need lhp/Christy to do a post on the case law on executive privilege.
It looks like the New York Times is on board this time. Today’s editorial comes down strongly for testimony under oath, and it comes down on a broad front, not just the particular issue of the DA’s. I’m more hopeful this morning than I was last night that the Dems will play this correctly. Look how Waxman is spanning the gamut of government operations. Friday is the deadline for Ms Rice to hand over the information he asked for on her handling of the Yellowcake material. That’s another subpoena in waiting. We will hear from Bolten on whether Rove got another security check, soon.
Pile on.
egregious @ 54
Funny!
About Guiliani. He’s being seen by some in my area as the (next!) Great White Hope. The MSM will not be telling the public what it needs to know about him. Our Bush-battered country would not survive Rudy and his thugs.
Chick Shumer needs to back off and let Leahy run the show. The whole good cop/bad cop thing is getting tiresome.
Also, as predicted on TPM, Bush is pulling the “but look at all the documents we turned over to Congress” bit. Absent major chunks of email from Carol Lamm I might add.
It’s time to cue the scary music just a little bit. Not the pounding rhythmical stuff yet, but something that makes you realize your knuckles are white and your breath is shallow.
This movie is heating up.
Sally @ 59
Bush-battered. Dipped in sh*t and eaten whole.
My memory from Watergate is that the opposite was the case. Congress started investigating the (relatively) small issue of the break-in (which, after all, had been public knowledge even before Nixon got elected.) It was during the course of this investigation that all else emerged–the enemies’ lists, the illegal campaign contributions, the money-laundering, the “plumbers,” the anti-semitism, the paranoia and the overstepping–the break-in at the Watergate was only one example.
I think that the USA scandal has the same potential. Through it we can see how the Administration misuses the FBI and the USAs and the mechanism of the law in general(phony voter fraud cases and NSA wiretapping), uses money to award friends and fear to overcome potential critics (USAs, Wilson, Plame, O’Neill, etc.), how it all seems to center on “Karl’s shop.” The USA scandal is a small window, admittedly, but if used correctly, it can give us a larger view into a brittle and barely standing house of cards.
I think you’ve got it right in your post, just backwards. A broad investigation will make this seem like a “fishing expedition,” like Bush says. But a narrow one with an established meme that encompasses the larger problems might just blow that house of cards down.
Without testimony under oath and the release of all related documents, we won’t know whether the law was violated.
OT- John Yoo in L.A. Times op-ed tells us that new limits on the Patriot Act are a mistake in fighting the war on terra. Instead Yoo makes the helpful suggestion we should…
Break Up the FBI
I have gathered all of the information on Daniel Bogden from all 3000 documents and have listed it with other relevant information on my website http://misterapologist.blogspot.com/
I have direct copies turned into pictures of ALL Daniel Bogden information…
Highlighting all inaccurate statements plus identifying files and emails that are still missing (One Email from Daniel Bogden was conspicuously damaged to remove several lines)
Visit http://misterapologist.blogspot.com/ for this story and Updates.
Unless Republicans now put the country ahead of their party, Bush is an albatross that they will wear around their necks for years to come.
It’s time for the Senate and House Judiciary Committees to subpoena e-mails of WH appointees (like Rove, et. al.) regarding the DoJ — and US Attorneys and assorted relevant matters — from gwbush43.com, and the other RNC websites hosting such accounts.
These are NOT official WH records, and Bush can’t make any reasonable argument of executive privilege to protect them.
Scarecrow @ 57
and if they’re reading, I’m very interested in the issues of waiver - both with regard to the 3000 pages and the idea that he *would* send them over to “talk”, but refuses oaths and transcripts.
I think his position is weak - very weak.
Just heard rerun of part of shrub’s tirade yesterday and he said, “The proposal I put forward is the proposal.” Well, duh.
Bruce Fein on C-Span 1 re constitutional checks & balances.
O/T
Happy New Day/ Spring /Vernal Equinox FDL!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgeZEdbv_m8
CityGirl, right on about sound bites. The bites should include:
“Obstruction of justice” “Rule of law” and “Aid and comfort to the enemy in time of war”
Scarecrow,
thank you for this - even though I was snarky, I share the concerns you expressed after Chimigula blathered yesterday
just like BlueUU, I sent that last paragraph on to Leahy, Schumer, Conyers, and Sanchez - via fax
and JGabriel, my note included the same suggestion on the gwb43 addy and Rove’s public remarks from last week
Wiki has the lowdown on “show trials” and mentions Stalin and uh, Saddam Hussein. Poor Bushie. He has lost control of his authoritarian train.
Oh it IS spring already, March 21 at 00:07 UT! Thanks Dru. [skipping thru the daffodils]
New life, new hope.
From the front page:
“I’m still surprised that of all the lies, crimes and outrages in the Bush/Cheney regime, the USA matter could become the vehicle for the Bush vs Congressional confrontation.”
Keep in mind that it was a ham-handed burglary that laid Nixon low, not the secret bombing of Cambodia or the seemingly endless propagation of the Vietnam war.
That being said, this is increasingly looking like a profound abuse of the justice system. Its a sad commentary on where we are that this doesn’t look that profound compared to some of the other travesties foisted on us by Bush.
Zach Edwards at 68: Great effort; thanks for the hard work. What have you found so far?
Let’s not lose the forest in the trees. These firings happened in a context. Per Krugman:
The question is whether the highest law-enforcement officer of this land has been (ab)using his office to harass his political opponents of his party and protecting rackets conducted by members of and donors to his party. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence that he has been. If so, he must be impeached for malfeasance.
egregious @ 77
Yes.
Credit where it’s due. Here’s the 18 gap day post in Josh’s comment thread:
In case you missed it, here’s Chimpster’s presser from yesterday evening:
Chimp Presser
and
Reporter’s questions
Scarecrow @ 32
HeeHee — my thoughts exactement, Scarecrow! One can only hope that someone these days has attempted some digital skulduggery that could be uncovered and verified; that would add yet more to the obstruction of justice cornucupia we are now seeing.
I’ve mentioned this before but in those far-off daze of Watergate, it was I who first “officially timed” the gap (in that former life I was then a researcher for BBN, birthplace of the Internet). We (well, mostly in my lab) also analyzed that White House tape and others to see how the erasure was done. I’m proud to say that our conclusions marked the first irrefutable scientific proof of evidence tampering in Nixon’s WH and lent credibility to the rest of the probe that ultimately brought Nixon down.
Of course, I deeply regret having played that part since St. Nixon was greatly the moral superior of W and his minions…
… not so much though :)
Just a question to throw out to those more knowledgable, those investigations that got sidelined due to these firings, do they just get dropped? I was wondering why we never heard more about hookergate, and whatever Abromhoff spilt.
Can anyone fill me in?
Wigwam — yep, thanks for that reminder. It’s the stuff we don’t know yet that may be the worst.
Wigwam @ 79
I really think this is the meat of this matter. IMNAL, and so I cannot fathom how this can be rooted out to light of day. Missing 18 pages?
CNN Wash. man (Mike Allen?) just said the Democrats are behaving “politically”, and chuckled.
They just look stupider and stupider. They thought we’d miss this gap.
OTOH, this illustrates something I read over at myDD (I can never remember whether it’s Stoller or Bowers). The republicans don’t understand the tubez. It should have been very clear to them that releasing these documents be like putting a carcass on an anthill. The netroots would pick it clean, one tiny bite at a time.
TiredFed @
50
And make reservations at a suitable facility for — how many?
egregious @
24
Oversight committee schedule here.
The usual IANAL disclaimer applies, but I really don’t see how there is any question that the subpoenas are upheld, assuming, of course, they are written correctly.
1. The evidence is now overwhelming that officials of the Justice Department gave false testimony under oath to Congress in the past few weeks.
2. Emails (esp. from Miers), the authenticity (if not veracity) of which have been stipulated to by the executive, have been released by the executive. As I understand it, once you start talking, you waive your privileges.
3. Same emails refer to Rove in ways that specifically contradict Justice officials’ testimony to the committee.
As an investigation into the legality of the US Attorney firings, I can see an argument that the subpoenas may be dubious. But if the subpoenas refer to investigation of false testimony before Congress, I don’t see how the subpoenas are legally anything other than a slam dunk.
Am I missing something here?
OT - waccamaw - as per CNN, Gandalf is a Shiloh Shepherd
Badwater @ 69
Make no mistake Republicans always put Party before country. They’ve taken a page out of history by emulating the Bolshevik and Nazi model of consolidating and holding on to power. Party loyalty will always trump loyalty to country for today’s Republicans.
Open a second front.
What about the USAs who were not gonna get the ax? What were they up to?
Via the NY Times a study by two retired professors of communication (Donald Shields and John Cragan) compiling a database of investigations and/or indictments of candidates and elected officials by U.S. attorneys since Bush came to power.
“Of the 375 cases identified, 10 involved independents, 67 involved Republicans, and 298 involved Democrats…. in which Democrats were seven times as likely as Republicans to face Justice Department scrutiny.”
http://select.nytimes.com/2007.....nted=print
From Shields and Cragan’s report:
“…of the U.S. Attorneys’ federal investigation and/or indictment of 375 elected officials. The distribution of party affiliation of the sample is compared to the available normative data (50% Dem, 41% GOP, and 9% Ind.).”
http://www.epluribusmedia.org/.....iling.html
In statewide and federal cases they found a total of 66 investigations. Here’s the breakdown:
Democrats: 36
Republicans: 30
Corruption and power go hand in hand. Remember, for the majority of the period in question the Republicans controlled all the levers of national power, and did so in a very partisan manner excluding Democrats wherever possible.
The numbers for local cases paint an even more striking picture. They found 309 investigations, broken down as follows:
Democrats: 262
Republicans: 37
Independents: 10