
So the Democrats say they will subpoena Karl Rove and Harriet Miers, and Bush says he'll defy them. Mark Kleiman asks the question:
What leverage do the Judiciary Committees have over the Administration with respect to the Overblown Personnel Matter? Why shouldn't Fred Fielding just stonewall to his heart's content?
Answer: a Congressional subpoena isn't a request, it's an order. (Sub poena: "under pain.") If the order is ignored, the Committee that issued the subpoena asks the parent body to vote a Contempt-of-Congress citation. Contempt of Congress is like contept of court: defiance means jail. In principle, the Justice Department could refuse to prosecute but at that point even the Republicans in Congress would probably have reached the limits of their tolerance. In addition, either House of Congress has (though it seldom uses) the power to order its Sergeant-at-Arms to simply arrest anyone who defies a subpoena; that power, like civil contempt of court, is coercive rather than punitive. That is, confinement lasts only as long as defiance lasts.
The person subpoenaed can challenge the propriety of the subpoena on various grounds: for example, that the investigation doesn't actualy serve a legislative purpose, or that the material is covered by the attorney-client privilege. If the Congress has exercised its arrest powers, the person arrested can challenge the arrest by means of the writ of habeas corpus. (So far, Congress has no facilities at Guantanamo.)
Kagro X says that congress relies on the executive branch for its enforcement powers — in this case, the US Attorney from Washington, DC, who reports to Gonzales. In other words, no easy answers.
He also points to what might be on the stonewalling Bushian mind by quoting this piece from Time Magazine:
[W]hen it comes to deploying its Executive power, which is dear to Bush's understanding of the presidency, the President's team has been planning for what one strategist describes as "a cataclysmic fight to the death" over the balance between Congress and the White House if confronted with congressional subpoenas it deems inappropriate. The strategist says the Bush team is "going to assert that power, and they're going to fight it all the way to the Supreme Court on every issue, every time, no compromise, no discussion, no negotiation."
They've been planning for this kind of showdown? There certainly is a lot at stake. Kagro again:
Realize that the resolution of this stand-off will determine the extent to which the Congress is able to investigate everything that's still on their plate. If they lose this showdown, they lose their leverage in investigating NSA spying, the DeLay/Abramoff-financed Texas redistricting, Cheney's Energy Task Force, the political manipulation of science, the Plame outing… everything.
And that's why Bush is playing it this way. Remember, too, that his "administration" is populated by Watergate and Iran-Contra recidivists, chief among them Dick Cheney, who has wanted to relitigate the boundaries of executive power since forever. Cheney and others on the inside believe that this time, with a friendlier judiciary, these issues can be decided the "right" way, overturning the victories won against Richard Nixon's insane theories of executive power.
Their thinking is that they'll either win it in courts, or run out the clock trying.
And the day they get five Justices to say they're right, everything you thought you knew about checks and balances becomes wrong.
Chuck Schumer is talking tough now. With so much on the line, will he be able to back it up when things get ugly? Because it looks like that's where we're headed.
(graphic by Freaked-Out Canadian)



314 Comments





Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Jane!
Subpoenas — lots o’ them.
Hey! Whatever happened to the quick press reports that Cheney was having leg problems today?
oh yeah–Fitz! Jane! MT! Christy! LHP! Pach! Trex!
Oh, my stars and garters! The image of Rove being hauled off to the slams by the Sergeant At Arms is just too delicious!
Drag Karl and Harriet to Congress sporting tar and feathers, riding the rail. Bush the lesser with his personal troll Darth Cheney are next!
I’m scared. Really for the first time. If Congress doesn’t win this one, we can kiss off our democracy. It really is stand up and be counted time. In my fantasies as a younger person, I always asked myself what I would do when the time came. The time has come.
What happens now? First, you stay focused on healing thyself. Second, you revel in the glory of building a premier open source democracy site. Third, like good patriots throughout history, we don’t give up, we3 don’t listen to polling, We Speak Truth to Power.
Then we enjoy punaise.
Oh, as a side note, the guys at Sadly, No have been under DDoS attack again today. They’ve obviously REALLY pissed off the LGF crowd.
Knut Wicksell @ 5
Well, the only silver lining would be that it makes the Republicans even *more* unpalatable and unelectable than they are now, as they explicitly become the Above-The-Law Party.
Are we in for a velvet revolution to restore the Constitution?
Marion in Savannah @ 7
Sadly DoS. Sigh.
IMPEACH!
Pachacutec @ 9
Taffeta, apparently…
Thanks Jane!
But this is what is supposed to happen under these circumstances.
Counter the “Democratic Witch Hunt” meme… lets NOT forget that the US Attorneys are Republicans…
They canned 8 plus of THEIR best and brightest who usually go on to run for office, become judges and/or serve in Repug administrations.
Ya know – I am a NY’er and Chuck is my Senator and mostly I thought he was a blowhard, but maybe not? *slinks away*
I hope the will is there with the American public to stand up for their rights.
I don’t have faith in Schumer, but I have faith in Leahy and Feingold.
enjoin punaise?
two suggestions…..
1) promise Bush that no questions will be asked about conversations between Bush and his advisors during their public, sworn testimony (i.e. take the “president needs straightforward advice” argument off the table)
2) get Shumer to shut up about this, and let Leahy and Conyers handle it. (Shumer is proving a distraction…)
Millineryman @ 17
I’ve got my pitchfork at hand
smapdi @ 19
can’t say I’m enjoyin’ the prospect of a constitutional crisis…
“And the day they get five Justices to say they’re right, everything you thought you knew about checks and balances becomes wrong.”
And that is why I will vote for the Democratic nominee in 2008, even if he or she is not my favorite.
The Republicans have proven they can not be trusted with any governmental responsibility.
Period.
It actually is a very scary time.
However –
if Gonzo were to refuse prosecution of contempt of Congress charges, wouldn’t that be the time to begin IMPEACHMENT OF GONZALES hearings?
Or can’t we just go ahead and begin IMPEACHMENT OF GONZALES hearings right away?
We don’t just have the USAttorney scam to go after, we also have the NSA investigation shut-down.
And probably lots more that’s slipping my mind at the moment.
The DLC doesn’t want this fight for the same old reasons. They like their sinecure, and they’re afraid to lose.
As for me, I’d just as soon fight it now, and get it over before the elections. Democrats can use it to draw distinctions between us and Republicans. If the average citizen sees what is up, they’ll vote right in ‘08.
At bottom, that is the difference between R’s & D’s.
R’s think of citizens as units of production and consumption.
D’s (except the DINO’s) think citizens R Us.
punaise @ 22
and the alternative?
So if the Supreme Court establishes a precedent that presidential aides are exempt from all forms of subpoena and testimony…
How will the Republicans Whitewater the next Democratic president?
Eli @ 8
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 23
Or SCOTUS nominations.
This prez wants to paint this attorney firing business as a Democratic partisian thing. Won’t wash Bush. This is starting to remind of Watergate. Rove is Haldeman and Erlichman rolled into one.
The problem with the WH strategery is that there are so many people that Congress can supboena who are not in the White House who can submit very damaging testimony. Bush will be seen as simply obstructing justice. This is a political fight the Democrats should relish.
diogenes @ 25
That’s the difference between them and us. They like the sin, we like the cure.
p.lukasiak @
20
He just can’t keep his face away from the cameras, can’t he?
All I can envision is Schumer setting himself up as spokesman, inserting himself in the middle of the whole thing, and then backing straight down.
I hope I’m wrong.
punaise @ 22
Thought that’s what we’d been having since 2000 when the Supreme Court appointed the President.
can’t say I’m enjoyin’ the prospect of a constitutional crisis…
Elliott @ 26
none. bring it on. cartago delenda est.
CarthageBushco must be detroyed, and the fields salted.There truly is hope out there, though. My boss, a born-and-bred Savannah Republican surgeon, now is searching for one thing, just ONE thing he can agree with Republicans about. He actually submitted an Op-Ed piece to the NYT supporting national health insurance. With a well-thought-out plan of how to get there. If they’ve lost him, they’ve lost a LOT of the people they need.
At some point, you have to take a stand – after all, we have all that dry powder stored up.
This is messy, but this is the way our system was designed.
In my opinion, they should just start impeachment hearings and get it over with. That’s where we are headed anyway.
Paraphrasing a comment I made on the previous thread, perhaps rather than relying on a court enforcing a contempt citation, the Democrats should issue the subpoenas and when they are defied, begin a vigorous campaign to accuse the White House of obstruction of justice, and ask, “what are they hiding?”
I posted this earlier but it seems more relevant here. Kennedy’s DC judiciary staffer was working and answering the phone at 6:30 PM, the first time I’ve ever gotten anyone after 5.
I spoke w/ a Kennedy (DC) staffer after the president’s presser. They know where this is going. They will subpoena anyway. I asked if they were ready to pursue the consequences when the subpoenas were ignored. He told me they were ready to go the distance.
Got EPU’d previously, but my point holds for this thread too:– we need to position this whole thing properly… this is NOT about Dems picking a fight with the president over the right of the WH to hire and fire political appointees.. it’s about the WH attempting to intimidate government officials who supposedly serve the rule of law, into throwing or otherwise influencing the outcome of criminal investigations, and when they refuse to play ball, destroying their careers and reputations. It’s the same pattern of behavior we saw with Ambassador Wilson and Ms Plame, and, morally, its no different than Nixon breaking into the campaign office of one of his political opponents…
Oklahoma kiddo @ 30
punaise @ 35
YES! YES! YES!
wanna borrow my scythe?
Heh – Andrew Sullivan on KO “The only one who can save the Republican party is Hilary”
Surely Tweety should be all a-twitter about the thought of the Democrats penetrating the White House with their big, throbbing subpoenas?
Jane Hamsher @ 33
Is it time for another wave of faxes and letters? I’m ready to go!
Wow.
There is a lot at stake, and I truly hope the Democrats (and the patriotic Republicans) in the House and the Senate have retrieved their integrity and spines from the escrow they had been placed in for far too long.
KagroX is right: this is the end game for the Watergate and Iran-Contra recidivists. It will take more than subpoenas to win this fight. They are cornered, and their last recourse — judicial protection and the construction of a compliant prosecution — wasn’t fully completed before the sheer number of illegal activities caught up with them.
Even if it means an impeachment on the last day of their terms, Bush and Cheney must — must — be prosecuted. This Administration’s criminal hijacking of the government for the benefit of a few must be prosecuted.
As TRex says, “Attack! Attack! AATTAAACCCKKKK!”
Hey, here’s a question –
If Georgie is allowing Rove to testify (behind closed doors, without a swearing-in) then how can he possibly argue LEGALLY that Rove shouldn’t have to answer a subpoena?
punaise @ 22
There are those of us who believe that even in times of “constitutional crisis” you will out with one of your “mad i sonnes.”
Jane Hamsher @ 33
Me too, Jane.. see me at 16, but it seems like he’s all we have now.
The president has no leg to stand on. Nixon didn’t either. He tries to shut down government he is going to lose. Congress has the authority. They can just play it out. Eventually to the point where the Sergeant-at-arms frog marches Karl right out of the White House.
We’ve had enough. The president backs down in the next 48 hours or finds out that the main order of business in Congress is removing him from power.
They may think they have planned this out, but they really haven’t.
They were afraid of the numbers of people in front of the White House the last time. You think Arlen Spectre’s people are going to put up with him enabling this kind of horseshit.
Bushie better fix his attitude and fix it quick.
Professor Foland @ 39
That’s VERY good news.
Do you think that’s as good as hearing the same stance from Leahy’s office?
scory @ 45
Is there any reason they can’t be prosecuted in an actual (i.e., non-partisan) court of law in 2009?
patience @ 49
So, no one thinks this is a big bait and switch?
Eli @
27
How would the Supreme Court overturn a precedent established in a 1927 case mentioned on two prior threads (McGrain v. Daugherty 273 U.S. 135)?
Haven’t heard who the 2 Senators were that voted against the Patriot Act clean up today, anybody know?
p. lukasiak @ 20: I agree on quieting Schumer. I’m hardly up to the task of opining on how Dems in Congress should play the high-stakes game they’re embarking on against a savvy and well-armed opponent. But I sure do understand what I see on my TV, and how it might affect opinions.
Let Schumer play behind the scenes, but he shouldn’t be the public face of the party on this one. Neither should Rahm Emanuel, who came across for all the world like a snake oil-selling politician on Charlie Rose last night.
Pelosi and Reid need to get their PR act together fast, figure out who’s going to represent Dems on this issue and make sure everybody else knows to lay low when the producers come a-calling. We need to have the media and the public with us.
Eli @ 51
only if we can extradite from Paraguay and Dubai
Eli @ 10
The wingnuttien can’t handle the truth…their Flock of Seagulls reunion in D.C. was thirty thousand if you remember to divide by 30 or so.
Interesting read here…According to the AP, President Bush made a statement a few minutes ago in which he apparently threatened a constitutional showdown if Congress turned down his offer to have top aides testify about the U.S. Attorney firings only in private and not under oath. I gather this means that if Congress subpoenaed White House officials, the White House would assert executive privilege and force a lawsuit over whether the subpoena could be enforced.
I wonder, though, wouldn’t Congress be simply delighted to have this become a constitutional showdown? It would keep the issue in the headlines for weeks, and litigation would be likely to narrow the scope of executive privilege rather than expand it. Given that, this seems like a weird warning to make (assuming that the AP is reporting the warning accurately).
http://volokh.com/posts/1174428726.shtml
patience @ 49
The plan was always simply to maintain control of Congress so this situation would never arise. They planned for this eventuality about as well as they planned for the flowers-and-candyless Iraq scenario.
One of the few things Dubya’s been successful at is manipulating the SC to fit his agenda. Congress can supboena the crap out of everyone involved, but if the SC pays their debt to Dubya, we’re screwed. I distinctly remember telling myself on 9/11 that I hoped the prez stepped up to the plate when we needed him. That didn’t work out too well. Will the SC step up to the plate now that we need them? I’m scared too.
here’s a post by SteveH from the same link above:
Can someone explain how the executive privilege argument could be used to prevent the United States Congress from issuing a subpoena to Harriet Miers, a private United States citizen?
I get how the privilege could be claimed to relieve her from having to answer questions regarding her conversations with the President, but I don’t see how that privilege could be used to prevent her from testifying at all.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 53
McGrain v. Daugherty is merely a historical document.
Diane @ 54
I’m betting Specter and Lieberman.
TOE TO TOE, BABY! The Dems can’t back down, and neither can Bush. But we can make them look so guilty on the way to the supreme court that everyone outside the “crawl over broken glass rethuglicans” (30%) will run, not walk to vote for Dems
Great post, Jane. I’ll be on pins’n’needles.
Slight correction: subpoena means “under penalty” or “under prospect of consequences,” rather than “under pain.” It isn’t about a physical threat; it’s more about reaction backed by authority. So, if you ignore a subpoena, you don’t suffer pain—you suffer consequences.
Bush and his crew will suffer political consequences for ignoring a Congressional subpoena, but it remains to be seen if the Democrats are willing to impose any congressional, legal consequences, and if the Supreme Court is ready to acknowledge the power of Congress to subpoena the White House. If not, the word should be replaced by something like “request.”
Zee @ 60
I don’t think Kennedy is completely in the tank, so there is some hope.
Carol Lam for Special Prosecutor!
(I understand she’s out of work anyway…)
Pachacutec @ 9
Where are American college students??? Too busy drowning in their debts to bother? There should be our own equivalent of the Ukrainian “Enough!” movement.
Eli @ 63
Nope: Hagel; (R) NE) and Bond (R) MO
thanks Jane!
hope all enjoyed their walk through the snow
my initial impression once the adrenaline levels stabilized was one of anxiety and dread – Kagro X and Scarecrow have expressed valid concerns
but in my third reading of this -
it dawned on me- You and what army ?!?!? by that I mean these are some blazingly incompetent dullards – how many Fred Fieldings are there ??? These folks have lost some major decisions with their own packed SCOTUS, and I’m willing to bet there’s pretty much nothing left at DOJ except for the Kyle Sampsons and Griffins, and any of them worth their salt are pissed off career folks
it’s not bluster, I understand they’re gonna bring it – but with so much precedent on our side and so many ‘good bushies’ on their side, I feel a lot less anxious
Blue Dido @ 65
Of course, “consequences for your actions” is something Georgie thinks of as extreme pain, to be avoided at all costs.
Diane @ 54
NAYs —2
Bond (R-MO)
Hagel (R-NE)
Not Voting – 4
Biden (D-DE)
Johnson (D-SD)
McCain (R-AZ)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Eli @ 63
Sadly, No! Chuck Hagel and Kit Bond.
I hope that settles any lingering Hagelography around these parts.
Leahy should grab the mike out of Chuck’s hand…
he has the gravitas and the experience and he roars beautifully.
not totally off topic, I was just reading a frightening expose by Jeremy Scahill of his book “Blackwater: The Rise of the World’s Most Powerful Mercenary Army” over at Democracy Now! and found this um, “nugget”.
(I highly recommend the interview, btw– talk about scary.)
(bold mine)
http://www.democracynow.org/ar…..20/1337226
Helen @ 69
Ah, everyone’s favorite antiwar Republican “maverick”…
The guy who voted to eliminate the minimum wage completely.
When is the Wilson civil suit?
Mrs. K8 @ 24
I don’t think Gonzo can be impeached (yet). I’m not sure there is enough proven evidence available today that would rise to the level of a Republican being impeached (note: the level of proven evidence needed for a popular Democrat to be impeached in a very pro-GOP congress is much lower than what would be needed to successfully impeach Gonzo).
That’s why we need these investigations.
George may be blowing smoke, getting publically huffy and then either canning Gonzo or letting them testify with immunity). Or, he really might fight tooth-n-nail. I don’t think he’ll go all the way in fighting this. The bigger he makes this, the more likely people sense that he’s lying. I think it’s a game of chicken, and he’ll run it this week, but then give up. There’s too much at stake, and I don’t think the public is gonna side with him, particularly with the precedents set in the Clinton admin (staff testified) and the fact that many in the media are calling today Bush’s “Nixon moment”.
If the WH is sure they can win this battle, why did Bush look so ferkin’ worried this afternoon?
not totally offthread, but completely within the scope of constitutional crises:
We can’t let our support for Valerie Plame’s work on WMD blind us from understanding the convoluted web in which the CIA works. Here’s a bit from German media (in english) about the dark side of Ms. Plame’s company.
We can not countenance this shit.
Helen –
Hagel!?!?
Good grief. I knew he was a super-duper arch-right-winger, but jeez louise.
He can’t possibly be looking for FORGIVENESS from the White House, can he?
It has always been about the justices. A Dem friend of mine voted for Bush in 2000, and I told him why I always vote the straight Democratic ticket, no matter what, was because of the justices. And events have borne me out.
And don’t forget about the Circuit Courts they’ve been quietly packing, too.
angie @ 74
Yeah, he comes across as a guy frustrated and angry with the bullshit, and Schumer comes across as, well, a politician.
When Nixon tried to defy subpoenas by claiming executive privilege, the Supreme Court rejected his argument, 8-0 (with Rehnquist recusing). Sadly, on today’s Supreme Court, my guess is there are at least two votes in Bush’s favor, Thomas and Scalia, and I seriously doubt either Roberts or Alito would have been nominated absent being sounded out on the issue. I think we can count on Souter, Breyer, Ginsburg and Stevens to reject Bush’s argument. Which means we could be relying on Kennedy to do the right thing.
Eli @ 51
IANAL, but I think not. Criminal charges could be brought against them, although given the stated intention of quaranteening the Bush Presidential records, criminal prosecutors might face very special challenges with presenting cases to a grand jury and to discovery.
Elliott @ 56
They can’t be extradited from Paraguay for “political” crimes.
The president is obviously very, very afraid.
What is the president so afraid of? The truth?
What is the president so afraid of? Karl Rove under oath?
What is the president afraid of?
Repeat.
My overriding hope is that somehow this brouhaha will make it harder for this administration to start another war.
Alicia @ 81
*Every* time anyone tells me that the Republicans should have to clean up their own mess, or that they’re all the same so they’re just going to vote Green or stay home, I ask them how old Justice Stevens is.
Well, the other Senator from New York should chime in on this. I doubt she will, but I would expect her to weigh in strongly if she had any gumption.
The tennis game you describe between Congress and the President is important, but it is no replacement for impeachment. I think the wrangling between the parties going to the Supreme Court is the reason why. If the Dems think they have a chance of losing to a packed court, then they should go straight to impeachment and set no precedents.
The view here is that a Constitutional confrontation could be a required purgative. Like in unplugging the plumbing.
Zee @ 60
I’m kind of worried about this too.. a lot of us felt that the real reason for Alito’s nomination had to do more with his preference for presidential dictatorship and less for his conviction in pushing the social conservative agenda. What happens if they do something silly like stalling the process for months while enjoining Congress to use its subpeona power against the WH altogether? I’m not a lawyer, but I am suspicious.
“cataclysmic fight to the death”
Oh, sure. The White House is real tough. Meantime, their policy means certain defeat for dozens of Republican candidates nationwide.
“Go ahead and scream” — Dick Cheney to GOP.
Yeah Mrs K8 I had the same reaction to Hagel. My reaction to Bond: WHO?????
Crazy Horse @ 85
What if it’s just a performance issue?
neurophius @ 38
In what mainstream media outlet?
Tokyokie @ 83
We should be able to rely on all our representatives to do the right thing. Sadly, I doubt that many could pick the right thing out of a lineup.
Helen @ 93
“They know who I am! My plan is *working*!”
This “game” if you will, was played out over 30 years ago with Nixon. By the way, it’s a long game. One must have patience.
Once the subpoenas are issued and ignored the match begins.
The end result should closely resemble Nixon’s fate.
The clock is ticking, is there enough time?
I suspect Bush is being told that his stonewalling will delay the final verdict until after his term expires.
Chess anyone?
Blub @ 68
Judging by the ones here in Savannah who attend Armstrong Atlantic University, Savannah State and Savannah College of Art and Design the good ones are trying to study and work one or two jobs to keep from bankrupting themselves with student loans and the rest are too busy partying to notice what’s going on under their noses.
Slothrop @ 92
It’s their due.
Mwahahahahaha.
Blue Dido @ 65
‘penalty’ and ‘pain’ have the same root – the Latin ‘poena’. ‘Under pain of’ anything means that consequences will ensue, not necessarily physical pain.
Schumer is obviously enjoying every minute of the discomfort of the WH, he is smiling and smirking and yes! loving it all…just watch the faces of everyone, turn off the sound and check the body language.
Delicious
LandOfTheFree –
Doesn’t an impeachment (indictment) by the House begin with impeachment HEARINGS?
Isn’t that analogous to a grand jury gathering evidence?
Why can’t such hearings against Gonzo begin?
[I’m not trying to be challenging, I just want to understand — seems to me there ought to be plenty of suggestions of malfeasance on Gonzo’s part to justify HEARINGS into charges, no? And how would they get out of subpoenas then?]
He says one thing, he intends the opposite. He hopes the Democrats don’t want a fight – he means he wants a fight.
Eli @ 97
Arlen Spectre…err Specter…What is his deal? I don’t think I can trust him any more than Box Turtle Cornyn, or the rest of the rethuglicans.
Olbermann is discussing my ‘favorite Senator’ from NY. Is there no escape for this (me) liberal (some would say radical) Democrat? ;0)
Crazy Horse @ 85
They can’t be extradited from Paraguay for “political” crimes.
how about racketeering?
Hagel surprises me, Bond doesn’t. Didn’t believe Specter would have the balls, his rep at stake (I know, I know he’s a paper tiger) As mouthpieces for our fight, I pick Leahy & DiFi.
The supremes will be there in their chairs long after Bush is gone…think about it.
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 105
bwaaa-haaa-haaa! love it.
scory @ 84
I think the House just overturned (a week or two ago) the Hide-the-Records Order (don’t know where the Senate is on this).
Slothrop @ 92
The White House does not care about anything but the White House. Plus, Bush loves to pretend to be a tough guy.
Crazy Horse @ 85
Don’t we have intelligence agencies who engage in “extraordinary rendition”?
Now, THAT would be something, eh?
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 105
Arlen Specter is a sworn enemy of the Constitution who wishes to be perceived as “moderate”. So he beats his breast and rends his garment every time the Bush administration spits on the law, and then turns around and does everything he can to make their actions legal.
Eli, the extradition law w/ Paraguay doesn’t reference performance. “g” “Our” gubmint only references performance when it achieves the political aim (Fitz is middling), which in this case has backfired so beautifully. But you can still find safe haven in Paraguay, even though you post here revolutionarily, because you can argue your posts have some political end.
Spector likes the limelight. He gets all flumoxed when the Repugs do something bad and then he “forgets” about it and does nothing, Of course, here he was right in the thick of things; wasn’t he? He actually voted against himself today.
Elliott @ 21
Great! I had a pair, one for each hand.
One of the few things Dubya’s been successful at is manipulating the SC to fit his agenda. Congress can supboena the crap out of everyone involved, but if the SC pays their debt to Dubya, we’re screwed.
Dems should keep it out of the courts. If they supoena Rove and he doesn’t show up, cite Rove AND HIS BOSS for contempt of congress and obstruction of justice, then start impeachment proceedings against Bush. CONGRESS decides what “high crimes and misdemeanors” consists of… and Dems shouldn’t be afraid to force the issue with Bush.
There are two words to describe Bush.
Presenile Dementia.
This administration has, indeed, been preparing for exactly this kind of fight. Big Dick has wanted to relitigate his boss’s Watergate fiasco since 1974. The only thing he wanted more was a “do over” because Poppa Bush wouldn’t let him invade Baghdad and topple Hussein in 1991. He got his “do over” four years aqo, though he still refuses – like Junior – to admit that Poppa Bush was right the first time.
For Big Dick, this is Christmas in March. If he wins, he vindicates the Nixonians. If he loses, well, that’s George’s problem, he’s the president. See how much better it is when you have your hand in the sock puppet rather than the other way round?
Diane @ 108:
Agreed. I’m usually uneasy with DiFi. Never know how firm she’s going to be. But she’s been good on this one.
Crazy Horse @ 115
That was kind of the joke…
Eli @ 94
After seeing clips of Bush’s press conference, my thought was, “HE is having performance problems. HE is not faithfully executing the office of President of the United States, and is not, to the best of his ability, preserving, protecting and defending the Constitution of the United States.
ccmask @ 119
Looks a lot like “Presidential Dementia”.
ifthethunderdontgetya @
23
Bush, Cheney et al want a constitunional crisis to finish their power grab. If thats the way they want it then maybe when the Democrats take over they can facilitate a typical rethuglican rendition flight…you know pick up the retired Bush administration ( cheney, Georgie, Rumsfeld etc.) in the middle of the night and jet them off to whatever country wants to indict them on “crimes against humanity” charges. Now that is a threat worth following up on!
Alicia@101: of course. But the phrase “under pain of,” as equivalent to “under penalty of,” is so archaic by now that “pain” struck me as a slightly risky translation of this term. Though I don’t object to the discomfort of well-earned prison terms for administrative criminals….
spiderpaws @ 109
SPIDEY!!!!!
I have a question from last night: what exactly IS “your generation”?
Realize that the resolution of this stand-off will determine the extent to which the Congress is able to investigate everything that’s still on their plate.
Ah, the nub of the problem. However, playing cat and mouse with Rove & CO. assumes a fact not in evidence, to wit:
That the Dems have the ability, not to mention the will (Blue Dog Dems, e.g.), to mount an effective fight.
That means that in any proposed deals, like Fielding’s offer of allowing the Dems to have a nice little tea chat with Karl and Harriet, they’re going to get their clock cleaned.
Just look at Pelosi’s cave in to AIPAC on the Iran issue…
Might as well as try something totally out of character for the Dems– take a stand on principle. And, in the best tradition of The Eagles– take it to the limit.
Force a constitutional showdown. The worst that happens is that the Dems lose these fights but are identified as a party that stands by its principles.
A stretch, I know. But enuff of this freakin’ triangulation and compromise crap.
this is what I’ve been waiting for, a defiance of subpeona
when that happens palosi has her test, she MUST go straight to impeachment
NO SUPREME COURT CHALLENGE!
SHE MUST NOT WAIT FOR THE SUPREME COURT TO RULE
plain and simple, tell him in no uncertain terms;
COMPLY OR YOU ARE BROUGHT TO THE COURT OF IMPEACHMENT
then she marches INTO the republicans office and advises them;
the next president WILL be a democrat, do THEY want a democrat to have this kind of power?
stike a deal with the republicans, give them some seats, promise them vots, promise no contest in re election
WHAT EVER IT TAKES
THEN IMPEACH
/me been saying this is where it’s going for a while, a subpeona that is defied by the president
NANCY PALOSI, THIS IS YOUR TEST AND AMERICA CHARGES YOU TO TO PROTECT HER CONSTITUTION
now for the popcorn
Celtic Music @ 121
She seems to be sticking up for Lam. Anyone give any consideration to running Lam against Hunter? Or Bilbray? for Congress.. in ‘08… or, given that we’re a recall state….
Rove has spoken publically on the record about this case.
He claimed in front of cameras that Lam was let go because of lack of immigration enforcement. The record shows he is lying.
His statements should form the basis for the subpoena, and wave his claims to exectutive privilige since he chose to go public with statements.
DFA re: “Bush, Cheney et al want a constitunional crisis to finish their power grab.”
Somehow, that reminded me of their attitude about “the surge”. Gambling language. Was it “double up” or “double down”? Something like that, anyway.
ccmask @ 119
Bush is grasping desperately: Prehensile demon, sure…
p.lukasiak @ 118
I like how you think!
Valley Girl @ 132
“going for Baroque”
as admittedly nutty as it sounds, I think the JAG’s can come at him as Commander In Chief – war crimes, dereliction of duty, conduct unbecoming, violation of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell -
ok, the last one doesn’t count but under UCMJ I believe his title is more than ceremonial
p.lukasiak @ 20
punaise @ 135
Oh, Punaise!
I believe Supremes can be impeached also.
I;m no fan of my senator DiFi Inc. (DFINK on the NYSE), but good for her if she grabs on to this issue.
I’m still kinda hoping that there’s a WH memo from Rove to be surfaced somewhere, dating from sometime during the height of the Plamegate investigation, telling Abu to fire Fitz forthwith in order to, in as many words, stop the investigation. If that doesn’t impeach, nothing will..
I presume that folks caught this from Bush:
Please note that he asked the press to get off this story, and asked the press to “join us.”
Pretty straightforward, huh?
punaise @ 140
Just saw results of a poll on CA senators. DiFi scored higher than Boxer by a couple of points. Go figure.
This sounds like chess. I say screw this and just impeach them for getting us into war based on lies, and any number of other impeachable offenses we can find. Also, we need an independent investigation of 9/11 while we’re at it. These people need to be exposed.
Ms K8 – baby steps.
IANAL, but my assumption would be that if the Democrats just started formal impeachment hearings before having any legally proven information at hand, it will look like a partisan witch hunt.
Think about how the salivating GOP-run Congress impeached Clinton. They waited until they had ample information from a prosecution and a trial. If they had tried to go after Clenis before the Starr report, the GOP would have fallen on their faces.
We don’t have a trial yet – just a lot of allegations and a LIMITED amount of paper trail. Nothing that pins anything definitively illegal directly to Gonzales.
Best way to proceed, IMUO, is to subpoena Gonzo, Rove, Miers, Sampson, and any other deputies. Call the President’s bluff. If he refuses to have them cooperate with the investigation, then request Contempt of Congress be filed. If the US Attorney in Washington will not support Congress in those charges, then you appeal to Gonzales. If he refuses to act, then you may have reason to impeach him – he is derelict in his duties to support the Constitution and laws of our nation.
drinksforall @ 125
Hey! That’s what I said at #113.
But that’s good — the more repetition, the better. I’d like this idea to catch on — and scare the crap outta the Bushies.
When you don’t get enough sleep at night, your decision-making skills are worse than usual.
And that’s saying something!
Prof @ 142
Yes. I heard it.
Valley Girl
YGM.
1,461 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Eli @ 114
Yes, he is.
When the day comes for “Nuremberg Trials Part II” at the Hague, I want to see Specter in the dock, too.
Jacqrat @ 148
will go look
Prof @ 142
That *is* remarkable. I had thought they were already there.
Tonight on Frontline
Stories from the Soldier’s Heart
I think Fearless Leader is just daring Congress to impeach him at this point.
LS @ 144
No matter what my wet dreams desire, I think this analysis is closer to the truth of how it will go. Shrub will make noises about resisting subpeonas, Congress will make noises about a constitutional confrontation, pundits will hyperventilate and then the whole thing will be defused with Abu’s ’staged’ resignation (for personal stress and the damage we dems are doing to his family, yadayada…) and then this whole thing will just die.. and we move onto the next shrubco scandal (of which there are many). And this might not be a bad outcome… we will have forced out yet another top cabinet official, shrubco would be that much more weakened, and we will not have given ground in time to focus on the next impeachable offense…
punaise @
135
…and possibly ending up with more than they can Handel.
Scarborough sticking up for the Bugman, imagine that.
Undermining the Constitution is what this struggle is about.
Mrs K8 @ 150, and drinksforall,
At the Hague, on trial for war crimes, is exactly where Cheney, Bush, Gonzales, Yoo, and Addington should end up.
LandOfTheFree @ 145
Yes, that was my original suggestion.
If Gonzo won’t support contempt of Congress charges, THEN you can impeach him.
But in the meantime, I got impatient about it.
Can you blame me?
;-)
Jacqrat
YGM
Blub @ 155
He just doesn’t want to be a distraction from all the good work Bush is doing…
Probably in EPU land
The Bush speech on the attorney firings March 20, 2007
The problem. It was all a PR mistake.
Confusing: Even we couldn’t follow our own stories
Incomplete: we lied
The Solution. Act like we’re helping but stonewall, stonewall, stonewall.
First, Gonzales has a history of lying to the Congress. Look at how many times he has had to correct his testimony. Second, a 3,000 page docu dump is so much misdirection if it doesn’t contain pertinent information. Third, interviewing White House advisers not in public and not under oath is merely an invitation for further lies and misstatements from the Administration on this issue.
OK, the king has made his offer to the unruly peasants. Now he’ll tell you what he really thinks
And if you think I’m mistaken in the kingship language. Note the following use of the royal “we”.
So tell me again, George, how important you think this is.
I also found the first question interesting because Bush didn’t answer it. He was asked the question again and simply repeated his same non-answer.
Bush refuses to say that his Administration did not exert political pressure. My take is that Bush doesn’t understand what all the fuss is about. He sees it as perfectly all right for his Administration to staff US attorney offices with hacks, hatchetmen, and cronies. He sees no problem in them administering the law in a partisan way (as long as they are good Republicans). At the same time, he dismisses Democratic inquiries into this stacking as nothing but political gamesmanship although they involve important questions about law and governance. This is just another example of the philosophy that IOKIYAR. It is also an example of what happens when you elect a dope as President.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news…..320-8.html
Oklahoma kiddo @ 158
“Undermining”? More like dynamiting.
College students, shit you must be kidding. In Georgia Zell engineered the “Hope Scholarship” that allows middle class and up kids to go to college tuition free. Guess where the money comes from? The lottery. Athens is full of huge SUV’s with “W” stickers up and down frat row, the bars are full and the students have virtually no chance of being asked to do a goddamn thing. A couple of grads have been killed in Iraq and when they ask for a moment of silence at football games the drunk morons can’t shut the fuck up for one minute. Draft their pampered asses and you’ll get some action.
NorskeFlamethrower @ 149
it sure does.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17691609/
we engineered this “sectarian war”
sickening.
Diane @ 157
did we ever figure out what the status of his texas case is?
Mrs. K8 @ 160
Assuming he’s still AG. I think his remaining tenure is measured in days.
1,461 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Patriots:
It seems that Estelle the computer server is havin’ an episode of post traumatic stress syndrome…do ya need traffic control?
To the topic at hand, is there an echo in here? I been warnin’ folks since December that subpoenas, claims of executive privilege and our constitution are gunna rest on the vote of one Mister Justice Kennedy…if Rove has enough on ‘im I’m afraid we’re gunna hafta go inta the streets ta get rid of these bastards.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, WE’RE GOIN’ DOWN TA THE MAT ON THIS THING!!
Blub @ 155
And I’d love to see who they think would win nomination for the AG slot in the Senate.
Bush could win this showdown with Congress if it were not for Iraq. With Iraq in flames and no resolution in sight, his approval rating in the 30’s, Bush has no political capital left. His own party is ready to desert him, and they could not on Iraq because of 9/11 and the fear of being called cut-and-runners. The more he stonewalls on AttorneyGate, the more his party will desert him as 2008 approaches.
My call is that Bush loses big time.
We have Delay, Gingrich and people like Ralph Reed, all disgraceful role models for our children, very active in Republican politics.
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 159
It’s my dream.
Still, I wouldn’t mind seeing Specter added to the list as a prime enabler.
dreamcatcher @ 171
When he said he had political capital and meant to spend it, no-one realized he intended to spend *all* of it.
Blub 155
God, I only hope you’re right!
Mrs. K8 @ 173
Perhaps Rice and Rumsfeld too?
on the dimensions of executive
privilege, when the president’s
staff is called before the house
(or senate) committees to testify,
under oath — some case law, from
the 1997 espy decision:
[this would be particularly relevant
when the house judiciary committee gets
around to asking cheney about plame. . .]
now — it is time to go to the mat.
the continued vitality of the
separation of constitutional powers
won, at great cost to this nation in
1973 to 1974, in the nixon-post-watergate
days, are at stake — which is to say, the
very future of checks and balances; nay, the
future of ordered liberty, is at stake.
it is very hard to overstate the
importance of getting this moment “right”.
but what do i know?
FWIW, Leahy and the committee are ready to go with subpoenas.
And he was not impressed w/Fielding’s “offer”. I posted this a couple threads back in EPU land’ Probably happen again.
Comments Of Senate Judiciary Chairman Patrick Leahy
After A Private Meeting With White House Counsel Fred Fielding
Tuesday, March 20, 2007
“I was glad to meet Mr. Fielding and I welcome the fact that these issues have his full attention.
“I don’t accept his offer. It is not constructive and it is not helpful to be telling the Senate how to do our investigation, or to prejudge its outcome.
“Instead of freely and fully providing relevant documents to the investigating committees, they have only selectively sent documents, after erasing large portions that they do not want to see the light of day.
“Testimony should be on the record, and under oath. That’s the formula for true accountability.
“I hope the President will agree to be forthcoming.
“The straighter the path to the truth, the sooner we will finally know the facts.”
(found on Leahy’s website)
Boise on Scarborough: (kinda quoted) The Pres had figntin’ words. He should tell them to talk and we should just get over it.
OH MY NO This is just the beginning
Oklahoma kiddo @ 176
Much as I despise Condi, I don’t think she can really be nailed for anything more than gross incompetence, or maybe criminal negligence.
I want to see Karl Rove testifying publicly, under oath before Congress.
Negligence, *not* negligees. Important distinction.
IMO, here are the facts we ought to be talking about day and night to get the MSM to pay attention
One reason the President is going to wall on the US attorney scandal is because of the risk of significant new corruption exposure.
Josh Marshall has documented the timeline of Mr. Sampson’s expressed concern about Ms. Lam in an email. He has also documented the $140k movement of funds from the Vice President through the Duke-stir’s good friend Wilkes’ hands.
That corruption needs to be highlighted. It’s the kind of corruption that that the media loves and the American public would change the channel to watch.
The key words: Vice-President, Office equipment and furniture, $140,000, Wilkes, Cunningham, yacht, US Attorney, Carol Lam, jail term…
Day and night, night and day, we should ask major media about that $140,000.
IMPEACH!
oh Eli– Ms. Rice is not just negligent, she is a prime enabler of all things booshco.
Including extraordinary rendition.
‘ere
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/….._0320.html
Ms. Mushroom Cloud.
On a lighter note–and apologies if this is widely known–Keith Olbermann mentioned tonight that Dubya’s nickname for Gonzalez is “Fredo.” KO’s advice?–don’t go fishing in the lake, and watch out if he kisses you.
Could you make this up?
Well, well, well. I just watched the video of Bush’s hastily organized presser. I’d call his performance pugnacious, bodacious and almost devoid of substance. I can’t wait to see what the Supremes do with him and his US attourney shenanigans (that’s an Irish word that I threw in in honour of St. Patty’s Day last weekend!). And here’s another word. Smirk. Bush smirked long and wide while he was talking about his promise to provide Congress with “the truth”.
punaise @ 35
repeating what i posted earlier and then going to bed=====cuz i wonder if anyone else noticed=======
and way off topic==
but has anyone else noticed the shoulder pads that they started inserting into gw’s suits around 2001????????????????
very noticable today in press conference…………
my mom used to call them power pads back when they inserted them into women’s suits around 89
Blue Dido @ 126
Me neither! :-)
angie @ 185
Fair enough. I still think she’s an amateur compared to the rest of ‘em.
Canuck Stuck in Muck @ 187
The Truth is a quaint and humorous notion that other people believe in.
Tokyokie @
83
I have a sense that Roberts actually loves America and respects the Constitution. He has his kids to think about…
Tell me where I’m wrong.
Mrs. K8 @ 173
Don’t forget Perle, Wolfiwitz and Kristol!
Bush’s John Wayne act today is one of his many defining moments like continuing to read a children’s book during 9/11. Our Congress has been sheep-like for a time now. Surely they are not going to be lemming-like too. I know it’s embarrassing that our president is a buffoon. Dang, hurry up and put the mutha in a straight jacket.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 180
Yes OKK and I sent an email to everyone in my address book today telling them to say exactly that to their reps.
Tucker just reported that Joseph Lieberman (I-NOTHING) is a frontrunner to replace Abu…
The Secretary of State must have known full well about the lies which led us into the Iraq attack. And as a consequence led to thousands of American GI’s being killed and maimed. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilian deaths. And Ms. Rice said nothing.
Terry Olson @ 193
My guess is that a few Supremes may have the opportunity to surprise us.
Hpoing and praying for the best at that time.
something that needs attention …
“In DOJ documents that were publicly posted by the House Judiciary Committee, there is a gap from mid-November to early December in e-mails and other memos, which was a critical period as the White House and Justice Department reviewed, then approved, which U.S. attorneys would be fired while also developing a political and communications strategy for countering any fallout from the firings.”
Does anyone know which faction of the “Bush team” came up with this plan? Is it an actual legal strategy or a Rovian game of political chicken?
OT, I saw Henry “Big Hank” Waxmann (sp?) on Charlie Rose today. He was music to my ears. The man has a voice for radio, and kept saying magical things like, “We’re not going after any person, we’re going after facts.” Someone needs to get him on the weekly Dem radio address sooner rather than later.
Blub @ 197
I doubt it. Turning his seat officially R wouldn’t affect the balance of power in the Senate as I understand it, and it means we can put a D in that seat in 2008 instead of 2012.
The Congress may very well need the support of the people in the several weeks depending on the direction this takes. 3 million people on the streets of Washington D.C. would send a message!
annx @ 200
Someone probably accidentally stuck their elbow all the way across their desk and hit the delete key.
Oklahoma kiddo @
198
she said a lot– a veritable passel of lies.
“And the day they get five Justices to say they’re right, everything you thought you knew about checks and balances becomes wrong.”
Mission of Burma seems relevant now…
1,461 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
oklahoma kiddo and the Firepup Patriots:
Your point about Gingrich, Delay and Ralph Reed is worth expandin’ upon…none of these folks are in jail (yet) and look at the folks who have been exposed for and some even convicted of felonious behavior who haven’t served a moment and are still active politically. Good God, the senior staff of this administration is full of Nixon dirty tricks folks includin our dear friend Karl the Hutt. And our constitution will rest on the vote of Justice Kennedy…this has gotta be outta one of Freddy Krueger’s worst nightmares.
KEEP THE FAITH AND GET READY TA HIT THE STREETS…WE’RE GUNNA HAFTA SHOW OUR KIDS WHERE THE MONEY IS!!!
The president is not sweating this constitutional crisis because the looming mushroom cloud will create an effective diversion.
dreamcatcher @ 171
Plus he’s lame duck. His shelf time is about expired, and he is pulling down the thugs with him. They get no return for their loyalty. His political position is weak. Plus, his stamina is weak. I think he’ll crack if the Congress can keep the pressure up. To hell with impeachment. Just take him out in a strait-jacket! Isn’t there a Constitutional amendment (#25 I think) that allows an incapacitated President to be replaced?
I firmly believe that if one holds that the former Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld, should be held accountable as a war criminal, then the present Secretary of State is also a person who should stand trial for crimes against humanity.
OKkiddo, Rice was National Security Advisor – not Sec of State (that was Powell) – when the Iraqi war began. Still, she said nothing.
Heard Tony Snowjob is on the list when Gozo goes, didn’t know he had legal creds.
aspTrader @ 183
Dear Major Media,
Carol Lam had put Duke Cunningham behind bars for corruption. US Attorney Carol Lam was investigating the Dukestir’s contacts including Brett Wilkes. The Vice President had hired Wilkes’ firm by contract for “furniture and office equipment” for $140,000. A few weeks later, Wilkes bought Duke Cunningham a yacht for exactly $140,000.
When US Attorney Carol Lam wrote Justice in Washington that she was taking the Cunningham investigation further with search warrants in Washington DC itself at the CIA and in Congress Kyle Sampson wrote in an email that Ms. Lam was “a problem”.
Ms. Lam was one of the 8 fired US Attorneys.
Do you think that your media organization might do a bit of investigative journalism and look into this further.
Web links below.
Writing these kinds of notes is what we should be doing.
We do not have to worry about extradition from Paraguay or Dubai. It is currently legal to go and take the war criminals in there sleep, haul them off to a secret prison and torture them to death. (Not very bright of them to make it like that and then try to run away.)
Blub @ 130
Good thought. Wonder if she would be interested…
NorskeFlamethrower @ 207
Arite flame, you tell me. All Nixon’s chumps went to the joint. . .so what did it mean in the long run? Same old shit.
Yes! I want to see Rove frogmarched to jail! Yes! Yes!
creon @ 208
And don’t forget, The Rapture is always waiting in the wings.
Eli @ 202
Eli, if the Republicants were actually as smart as they try to pretend….
It would be nice to have another chance to put a real Democrat in Ho Joe’s seat that soon.
Knut Wicksell @ 5
Didn’t take long to find a comment that was right on. We all need to be taliking to our elected representatives tonite and daily from this point on. What we are trying to do is save our wonderful country from becoming a dictatorship. I never thought I would see this day in my lifetime.
People get busy…….Wasn’t that part of a Marvin Gaye Song??
Blub @ 197
His name was mentioned as a possible replacement for Rumsfeld. I think the same negatives apply from Lieberman’s perspective. He can be a Senator, even if a pain in the ass, backstabbing one, for 6 years or in the Bush cabinet for about 20 months. Now factor in Joe’s ego and I think you have your answer.
@ 193..I think Scalia might vote against Bush. The vote..7-2 with Thomas and Alito in the minority. My opinion is predicated on the hope that Scalia will be having a sane period when the case is heard.
Hey Alton – that’s what Fitz said in the Libby indictment presser. Something like “If you send someone into a bank thinking that wire fraud has happened and then you find embezzelment happened, you do not walk away.”
DoodooHead @ 214
I think you first need to strip them of their native-born citizenship first.. oh, but I forgot, we have that precedent now too! (Hamdi)
OT – Some bozo on NPR was saying the reason the former do-nothing rubber-stamp Congress, (which he described as simply “Republican-led” or some such), failed was because they tried to spend like the Democrats and clearly, he said, that doesn’t work.
Simply mind-beding.
NorskeFlamethrower @ 207
These things you are telling us, especially about this administration being full of Nixon re-treads are so true. My God, Henry Kissinger has a WH house pass and is advising Bush, Cheney and Rove on foreign policy, and who knows what else.
Steve @ 222
Scalia better decline any duck hunting invites from Cheney, then. Read that however you like.
it’s the little things that kill
tearing at my brains again
the little things that kill
the little things that kill
Bombing Cambodia at Christmas? Nah. Third-rate burglary at the Watergate? That’ll do. Illegal war in Iraq? Nope. Snarky memo about an unpopular prosecuter? Yeah baby! It’s always the little things that get them. Or the seemingly little things. That turn out to be big things. Thank God for the little things.
1,461 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Firepup Patriots:
With the direct connections to Iran Contra, Watergate, America First and Nazi Germany…is there anyone out there who wants to argue that what we are experiencing is not a well organized and institutionalized fascist takeover?
I wanna hear from some a you lawyers out there…tell me how our justice system has worked to protect the common citizen and safeguard individual rights under the Constitution.
That silence I hear is deafening…
KEEP THE FAITH WITH YOUR HISTORY AND YOUR CHILDREN…YOUR TURN IS COMIN’!!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 226
Rummy
Blub @ 130 and Terry Olson @ 215: I’m assuming Carol Lam is a Republican. Wasn’t she a Bush appointee? Hmmm…maybe she’ll switch.
Ok, mind-bending. Bending. Bending.
I’m sittin’ on the dock of the Hague
Watching the tide roll away
Ooo, I’m just sittin’ on the dock of the Hague
Wastin’ time
(snip)
Look like nothing’s gonna change
Everything still remains the same
I can’t do what ten people tell me to do
So I guess I’ll remain the same, yes
Sittin’ here resting my bones
And this loneliness won’t leave me alone
It’s two thousand miles I roamed
Just to make this dock my home
(good luck George et al).
NorskeFlamethrower @ 229
You forgot the “Gathering of Eagles”. Makes a vet proud.
Terry Olson @ 193
From your lips to God’s ear…
Terry Olson @ 215
I hope somebody in the local party is giving this some consideration, although she may have to switch parties if she’s a Republican. But running a competent (and not obviously criminal) conservative tough-on-crime, tough-on-immigration, tough-on-corruption ex-US Attorney against Hunter might just do the trick, even in East County. And, oh, the irony of possibly running Lam against Bilbray would be stunning… the prosecutor ends up with CA-53, whose former incumbent she jailed for corruption. Oh.. that would be lovely. What would the Copleys say?
Yes, Rahm was terrible on Charlie Rose last night. I kept expecting him to tear off the suit, have his ballet tutu underneath, and begin doing a couple of pliets.
Miss P. @ 231
UM – we got your “bending” The guy on NPR? not so much
Miss P. @ 225
This is a variation on the line that it’s always good if it’s Republican. So if there is a failure and Republicans were involved, it had to be that they were acting like Democrats. QED.
Celtic Music @ 231
Probably, but given how she’s been kicked to the curb and how her primary defender now seems to be DiFi, maybe she isn’t, she’s switchable or she’s already switched. Who knows. I say run her anyway.
Suzanne @ 211
I know. But that might even make Ms. Rice’s case even worse. And she sure didn’t, as far as I know, advise Bush of the folly of invading Iraq while at NSA. And unless I’m missing something, Ms. Rice has not advised the prez, in her present capacity, to leave Iraq. ;0)
Knut Wicksell @
209
Yes, to answer your question, it is the 25th Amendment, but please be careful about what you wish for; think of who is presently next in line.
Hugh @ 239
See: Foley, Mark.
Helen @ 223:
Maybe it’s time for Hankmas? Waxmas?
It’s just such a relief to hear the adults stand up and say the obvious after years of partisan spin. He also mentioned that he’s been requesting hearings on Valerie Plame and the White House’s handling of classified info for the last three years.
alton @ 244
Hankukkah?
Eli @ 245
Perfect!
Terry Olson @ 193
Roberts is a member of the Federalist Society. He believes that the government should be of the rich, by the rich, for the rich. He may love that but that is not my country.
There are a lot of people lobbying Congress to have a hearing on Sibel. Lukery has worked hard to spread the word. When and if it hits the fan the frogmarching will begin big time. That is the big picture
Steve @ 222
That seems to be an AWFULLY slim reed to hope for or rely on…
OK Kiddo– I am with you on the USS Petroleum Tanker Ms. Rice.
I think her fancy ways and highfalutin’ bootheels gave us the dreaded “no one could have imagined” thingie that they continue to spew.
No mercy for her.
1,461 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizens oklahoma kiddo and Suzanne:
With regard to Secretary Rice, remember when Senator Mark Dayton tossed a luggie on her lap in a Senate committee hearing sayin: “I don’t like being lied to.”
She could go for lyin’ to congress and she could be a co-conspirator in charges at the Hague.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THEY’RE GUNNA HIT BACK!!
angie @ 233
Oh, if only we still had Otis to sing it!
Healthcare Hustle Upstairs
Tula has the Health Care Hustle upstairs
Blub @ 236
I love it Blub, even Issa’s seat would be good. But I don’t know if she would be interested or would run as a dem. Wouldn’t matter. If she could beat out these repub in a primary, I’d take her as a republican over Duncan Hunter, Brian Bilbray or Darrel Issa. She has shown honesty and integrity. Now you have me thinking about the other USA’s that were slammed.
For over 30 years, PA’s Arlen Specter has been playing his own little two-step game. First, in front of the cameras, he is outraged…Huffs and puffs…He’s going to get to the bottom of this, etc. Secondly, he goes into the chamber and quietly follows the Repug meme, voting the Repug main line. The Evil Spectre.
angie @
250
This one?
alton @244. It’s true — and much more. Check out the Committee on Oversight @
House Oversight Committee
Bluetoe @ 194
And Feith
Well, guess what? The Bushies outsmarted themselves — they can’t fall back on habeas corpus because they dismantled it!
Hugh @ 247
I don’t know about the Federalist Society and will check it out. There are so many right wing organizations it’s hard for me to keep track. Thanks.
As Norske was saying above – look at the plan Gates recommended during Iran-Contra. This is our new Secretary of Defense:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/N…..10/3-Gates Memo 12-14-84.pdf
1,461 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Firepup Patriots:
For those who are smokin’ the good stuff and are callin’ a 7-2 Supreme Court decision against the Chimp on executive privilege…no, the only chance we have is if Alito and Roberts recuse since both worked in the WH. Then we get a 4-3 majority decision to save the Constitution. I don’t believe that Kennedy would bolt in that case.
However, the major hope we have is that Kennedy will want to secure his place in history and break 5-4 for the good guys.
KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T LET YER KIDS DATE FASCISTS!!
john in sacramento @ 257
That’s the one. Is that disgusting or what?
Well, I’m EPUed but I read a recent Atlantic interview with Roberts and came away feeling better about him. One of his issues is developing consensus. He feels the Court strengthens itself in the long run when it figures out the common elements that everyone can agree on. He thinks 5-4 decisions diminish the court into a personality contest, while big-majority decisions strengthen the role of the Court overall. (I have to agree with him on the idea.) So he’s even willing, in some cases, to side with the majority to make a decision more emphatic, even if he might disagree.
That sounds like a guy who is looking at a lot longer timeframe than the next two years, so spiderpaws @ 109, Roberts may agree with you.
It also suggests that he wants to strengthen the Court. Such a guy will not take kindly to the Unitary Executive idea, nor to elevating the Executive above the legislative. He’s also probably aware that the public elected this Congress to do something beyond rubber-stamping.
However, Alito, Scalia and Thomas probably have no such depth.
Marion in Savannah @ 252
I hear it in my head all the time ;)
and yes, john in sacramento @ 257– she’s part of the petrocriminal cabal.
yech.
Blub @
68
Should it come to that, we needn’t wait for the college students.
We can do it ourselves – if need be, we will.
We did it in Seattle against the same enemy (megacorps & their courtiers) when the issue was far more abstract, and the assymetry far more daunting.
_________________
On a practical level, we at the Lake have the skills and capacities to plan a mass mobilization in DC for the Supremes’ Congress v Bush case – or what comes after.
Skill Requirements:
I) Speakers – take care of themselves (well – they fight to get on the podium, and then demaand to be taken care of. Easily handled).
II) Message/image – from the skills at the Lake? Done.
III) Media contact/launch – from the Lake and allied blogs? Done.
The above is basically “free” – from very expensive people power, but available in our community and for some (the blog dependent)a “fixed cost” – they are giving the time already.
Logistics:
I) Transport –
Locals hire buses or use public transport (where it has survived Rethugs) or private tranport. Dismally un-egalitarian, but progressives don’t have an air cargo wing.
Yet.
II) Venues -
Places of worship are ideal. In DC Houses of worship threw open their halls on a few hours notice when we woke up the Saturday of the 2000 IMF/WB protests to find the DC PD had occupied our convergence warehouse/logistical center.
We re-generated our physical infrastructure needs in a few hours for the abstract IMF/WB fight.
For this fight, we’ll again have the unions and the places of worship, but we’ll have new social allies – some of them wealthy – welcoming the Constitution Protest of 2007.
Ideally we’ll be able to rent/use with permission/lease a largish space (or adjacent spaces) with at least one big meeting hall, several smaller meeting spaces, and a moderate sized warehousish area fo a mass of large visual/logistical projects. Public health approved food preparation area reallyhelps, but not a requirement. Bathrooms (lots of ‘em) or space for indoor porta potties a must.
(Trust me.)
III) Lodging -
This is a rate-dependent variable.
Doing this guarantees massive turnout.
This requires a (web) interface to match local housing offers with out of town guests. ANd a few people with
saintlypreistessly dispostions to handle the human interface. Houses of worship can help big on this in a crisis – a widely distributed network of hosts is so dispersed as to be untargetably, and thus not disruptable.Planning on any DC college/university for logistical/ residence space has been a major vulnerablity. For strong protests, the schools close out protest related activity. Security, doncha know.
IV) Medical/Security/Communication/Systems -
If you’re daunted about organizing the “boring bits” for massive non-violent DC action, no worries – you don’t have to bother.
My friends in the social justice/enviro movement will do it for you.
Really – we’d love to.
We’ve been sitting around for some years working our day jobs and helping our communities and families and loved ones and friends. Some of us make art and some babies and some food and some houses and some are reclaimng New Orleans and some crewing the Sea Shepherd and some….
And protecting the forests and scuppering empty whalers in harbor and forcing corporate change are fun – but they’re all hacking away at symptoms.
And we’re more than ready to put the stake forged of reverence for our Constitution and popular rage against tyranny through the megacorp vampires killing our families, jobs, and communities.
We’re ready to take back our nation, and we’re here to help you.
We’re burners, cooks, nurses, carpenters, sound techs, physicians, farmers, electricians, herbalists, parents, plumbers, structural engineers, artists, and attorneys. And college students. And grandparents.
And we’ve been waiting for you – at the Lake and elsewhere – to come out and play with us.
Together, we’ll make the systems needed to bring hundreds of thousands to DC.
We can do the preparations in weeks, and the final physical work in days.
Our nation is still a beautiful land, a lovely idea, still filled with great people. Together, let’s take America back for the people – away from Bush and the megacorps.
We’ve been waiting to welcome you – we’ll have fun together.
And no offense – we so hoped we never would. Not for this. Not for a fight.
We hoped to come together in joy, not to fight together against the Rethugs.
Hey – after we win – we’ll have more time together to explore the logistics of joy.
OK @ 264
Yup
————-
Veritas78 @ 265
Federalist Society
I still don’t see how there can be a privilege argument here. Congress doesn’t want to ask about what Rove and Miers told Bush. They want to ask about what Rove and Miers told people at the DOJ. What am I missing?
Frank Probst @ 269
PLUS — they already said they COULD testify. The disagreement was about HOW.
How can you make a legal argument that your staff can testify to Congress as long as they don’t have to make the representation that they’re telling the TRUTH?
kirk murphy –
I really, really like how you think! (and express what’s in your heart!)
Frank Probst @
269
Damn it, just came in and you’ve already said it!
Looks pretty straightforward to me:
1. Subpoena Rove and Miers to testify about Gonzales’s possible perjury before Congress.
2. File Contempt of Congress charges if they don’t show up.
3. Refer charges to Gonzales.
4. If Gonzales fails to instate the charges and/or fails to recuse himself, he gets impeached.
They can certainly fight this up to the Supreme Court with respect to Rove and Miers, but the threshold for impeachment of Gonzales has more or less been met already. He lied to Congress.
Eli @ 180
Crimes against humanity: war of aggression.
kirk murphy @ 267
:)
I’m ready, willing and able.
angie and Mrs K8, I’m blushing
(behind the gas mask)
Democrats should also subpoena former rep. Mark Foley (R-FL). What?
The timing of the firing of the eight USAs is highly suspicious, one month after the November 2006 elections.
One month before the elections in late September/early October, a news story broke upon the pre-election scene with a fury: FOLEYGATE.
You just know that Rove and the Republican Party machine went into damage-control mode, with one of their “pushback” gambits involving having USAs flooding our nation’s news cycles with charges being made (voter fraud?) and indictments being returned against Democrats, in an attempt to bury the FOLEYGATE scandal under an avalanche of negative Democratic reporting.
The corrupt Republicans couldn’t use the “Clinton did it!!” meme, for obvious reasons, even though I seem to remember them trying to equate Monica Lewinsky to the House pages that Mark Foley apparently viewed as his own personal stable of call-boys.
Anyway, Democrats should subpoena Foley to find out if anyone in the White House talked to him about what they planned on doing to address this “little” scandal of his and theirs, that blew onto the political scene one month before a highly important mid-term election. Did anyone in the White House or Congress (Hastert?) talk to him about using U.S. Attorneys to “swift boat” Democrats in an attempt to supplant negative Foleygate news coverage with fabricated negative Democratic Party news coverage?
I just bet this is what happened, this is why the eight USAs were unceremoniously canned in early December (they didn’t play along) and why the Bush administration is so afraid of this mis-use of the USAs coming to light.
kirk murphy @ 276
707!
ccmask @
58
I watched the speech… It was mostly straight out of the movie cowboy script, but in the face of a few pointed questions he quailed visibly. He did make it clear, in a blustering and not terribly convincing fashion, that he would fight subpoenas “to the mat”. The bluster is weakening, though, as his inner circle is cut away from him.
FREE The CLOT!
david baerwald:
The bluster is weakening, though, as his inner circle is cut away from him
Bluster’s Last Stand
1,461 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Veritas 78 :
Golly, I wish I could be as credulous as you are but I can’t… the tint of lipstick the Atlantic Monthly puts on that pig just doesn’t arouse me. Roberts is a Federalist Society member, is smart and was groomed from his last year in law school for work in the fascist machine. He knows which side his bread gets buttered and his overseers have a ton on ‘im…count on it. What you see is what you get with him, trust me he’s our worst nightmare: a true believer with a clever mind. (And he’s gunna live for at least another 35 years.)
KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T SWALLOW EVERYTHING THEY FEED YOU!!
perris @ 129
In hopesthis thread is not dead —– That horse will not run, Perris, as for DiFi, when push comes to shove The New Best Congress Money (AIPAC/neocon) Can Buy is bought and sold!
Firepups & Firepitbulls – Check out Jack Balkin’s blog – balkinization – there’re a bunch of underchallenged but well meaning (anti-admin) constitutional law professors who shld be able to address some of the legal points raised here.
hawaiilaw @ 284
Mahalo! sounds good
linky, please?
thanks for the heads up.Eureka Springs, AR @ 287
Yes.
The bulk of the work doesn’t rquire specific dates.
First step is to set forth needs (succintly) and bioregion. Invite volunteers. Then step baak and let the connections form.
Except for speakers/media/message details, this can all start tonight.
Not for rebellion. Not for protest. But to join in affirmation, celebration and non-violent defense of our Constituion.
Eureka Springs – if you’re willing – should we ask the Lake to jump in and start planning tonight?
Knut Wicksell @ 5
Me too, but I can’t take any more of this. I’m done. The time is now.
lolo @ 248
Exactly!
and thank you kirk murphy. can we start tonight?
EllenG @ 37
Hello, and 100% agree. Don’t think I’ve seen you here before, EllenG, ic which case welcome. Otherwise, hi!
Wordsmith @ 286
Bingo. Call ‘em all. Tell ‘em all.
Senate Judiciary Committee
Patrick J. Leahy (202) 224-4242
CHAIRMAN, D-VERMONT
Edward M. Kennedy (202) 224-4543
D-MASSACHUSETTS
Arlen Specter (202) 224-4254
RANKING MEMBER, R-PENNSYLVANIA
Joseph R. Biden, Jr.(202) 224-5042
D-DELAWARE
Orrin G. Hatch (202) 224-5251
R-UTAH
Herb Kohl
D-WISCONSIN (202) 224-5653
Charles E. Grassley (202) 224-3744
R-IOWA
Dianne Feinstein (202) 224-3841
D-CALIFORNIA
Jon Kyl (202) 224-4521
R-ARIZONA
Russell D. Feingold (202) 224-5323
D-WISCONSIN
Jeff Sessions (202) 224-4124
R-ALABAMA
Charles E. Schumer (202) 224-6542
D-NEW YORK
Lindsey Graham (202) 224-5972
R-SOUTH CAROLINA
Richard J. Durbin (202) 224-2152
D-ILLINOIS
John Cornyn (202) 224-2934
R-TEXAS
Benjamin L. Cardin (202) 224-4524
D-MARYLAND
Sam Brownback (202) 224-6521
R-KANSAS
Sheldon Whitehouse
D-RHODE ISLAND (202) 224-2921
Tom Coburn (202) 224-5754
R-OKLAHOMA
EllenG @
37
The problem here is that the Senate is then the jury and the Dems are going to really have to paint the publicans into a corner before there is a chance there will be 2/3 to convict. And w/o 2/3 in the Senate it is really just staging to 2008. Given that perspective perhaps the best thing to do is draw it out long and slow. BTW: I didn’t hear Bush say that waterboarding Rove was off the table. I heard that that was not torture the other other day.
oh father in heaven please help me.
my daddy told me he can”t save my ass anymore.
G.W.
Hi Eureka Springs -
Loved your question!
My response went upthread…. so I’l repeat:
Yes.
The bulk of the work doesn’t rquire specific dates.
First step is to set forth needs (succintly) and bioregion. Invite volunteers. Then step back and let the connections form.
Except for speakers/media/message details, this can all start tonight.
Not for rebellion. Not for protest. But to join in affirmation, celebration and non-violent defense of our Constituion.
Should we jump in the Lake to and start planning tonight?
RealWorld @ 290
Turdblossom would probably enjoy it.
LandOfTheFree @
123
Great. Spewed dinner all over my keyboard. Gross. But funny.
Kirk Murphy @ 284 – balkinization site:
http://balkin.blogspot.com/
ptrig @ 294
Must be all those USA’s who were not serving at his pleasure.
1,461 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Firepup Patriots and fellow old dogs:
I just visited “Balkinization”…whatta great site. I got it on my “favorites” and it’s gunna be on my twice a day schedule.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THEY’RE STILL BREATHIN’!!
Eli @
180
WHIG, if that’s ever cracked. Rumors of her being involved in some renditions, possibly including Abu Omar (Milan).
Still, she probably has been mostly a glorified cut-out.
Kirk – I loved your list and really for the most part know where to take it. Like you, I am in a community that is at the ready.
Not quite sure this scandal is it. I think this is a warm up. Critical mass and all that stuff.
Sure wish you could put that comment in a post…)
Eli @ 51
They can be impeached even after they leave office. If convicted it’ll cut off their pensions.
Not one word on ABC’s Nightline on the impending battle between Congress and Bushco Inc.. Not only does Bushco have to be taken down but the MSM as well. I fear that they will be an ally/enablers to the Repubs in the coming struggle.
Eureka Springs, AR @ 299
Thanks, ES! (more capillary dilation)
I’m so glad you’re in a good place.
Of course, I don’t know what will happen next either.
Part of our asymmetrical warfare against the magacorps (and their Bushco servants) is threat projection.
I don’t want individuals to out themselves or their capacities, but I do want our capacity for mass social assembly to have a seat at the political table.
[’Cause without a seat, we’ll just have to hang out in the aisles. Apologies to all official Washington diners for the disruption….]
The other reason to describe our capacity is to inform progressives and liberals about the immense logisitical base available for mass assembly.
Lest we forget…and surrender.
Marky @
31
rightown! foggo, jerry lewis, dukestir, cheney?
come on conyers!!!
Useful excerpts from U.S. vs. Nixon (418 US 693), an important Supreme Court precedent that would apply to Mr. Bush’s claim that executive privilege bars Congress or the federal courts from compelling disclosure of certain information in his possession:
The most important point is that U.S. vs. Nixon explicitly did NOT deal with the conflict between the President’s “generalized interest in confidentiality” of his communications and general “congressional demands for information”. It also explicitly did not deal with civil (as opposed to criminal) actions or claims regarding “state secrets”.
The case dealt with the President’s claim that he had an absolute privilege that would prevent disclosure of information in his possession, in a criminal action, in which a grand jury had already indicted several of the President’s advisers (and in which the President was an unindicted co-conspirator). The Supreme Court rejected the President’s claim and compelled disclosure under subpoena of specifically identified tape recordings containing statements by the indicted conspirators.
Regarding privilege, the Court said that the Constitution implicitly affords the President a “presumptive privilege” of confidentiality regarding his communications. This privilege is considerable, especially with regard to military, diplomatic and national security issues – to which courts must give “the utmost deference”. It extends even to, “idle conversations with associates in which casual reference might be made concerning political leaders within the country or foreign statesmen.” But it is a privilege subject to “our historic commitment to the rule of law.”
President Nixon asserted a “generalized privilege of confidentiality” as a bar to disclosure of “relevant evidence” in a criminal trial. The Supreme Court rejected that claim:
“To read the Art. II powers of the President as providing an absolute privilege as against a subpoena essential to enforcement of criminal statutes on no more than a generalized claim of the public interest in confidentiality of nonmilitary and nondiplomatic discussions would upset the constitutional balance of ‘a workable government’ and gravely impair the role of the courts under Art. III.”
“[T]o ensure that justice is done,” and that the courts could function, the Court deemed it imperative that “compulsory process be available for the production of evidence needed either by the prosecution or by the defense.”
Under U.S. vs. Nixon, Congress will have an uphill battle to compel disclosure, unless it can frame their demands for information in the context of investigating possible criminal wrongdoing.
See, David Iglesias’ editorial in the New York Times.
Oklahoma kiddo @
241
Nor has she resigned. It is not unreasonable to assume she approves.
Eli @
8
You assume there will be an election.
I know nobody is listening in on this thread anymore, but I am so stunned about today’s Bush press conference that I must post something somewhere! The internet equivalent of running outside and yelling for joy at the top of my lungs!
What the fuck was Bush thinking when he spoke today?????????????????????????????
I believe that today marks the beginning of the end for Bushco. And the line that Bush drew in the sand today that was so extreme that he cannot possibly back down from today’s position. If he does back down, which he will be forced to do because the NYT has just landed a haymaker on the middle of his chin, he will have lost all face and credibility for even staking out today’s obscenely ridiculous position…much less for backing down to the fucking Democrats in Congress.
It’s over folks — it’s over.
Since he always like to bring everything back to 9/11, let me offer this analogy: Bush just flew his Administration into one of the Twin Towers (The Congress of the United States of America and the United States Department of Justice). We saw it – we saw it live – we saw or heard it through many different forms of communication. Remembering back those long hours until each of the Twin Towers fell, we all really knew that it was only a matter of time until those Towers fell. And they did.
George W. Bush, 43rd President of the United States, just flew the Bush Administration into oblivion. It’s now only a matter of time until the Bush Administration collapes. I’m thinking months, definitely by the end of this current year. Wow.
What the fuck was Bush thinking????????????????
Following up on Professor Foland @ 39’s update about the next steps per Senator Kennedy’s office (thanks for that information), and in line with occams hatchet currently recommended DKos diary:
This is the time for the Congress to remind the President, his speechwriters, the media, and the country, that the elected members of our Legislative Branch of government are the American people, and represent everyone in the nation by acting as the heart and soul of our federal government under the Constitution’s inspired design. There’s no ‘third person’ in the equation, as Bush tried to pretend in his statement Tuesday evening, when he warned “partisan Democrats” not to keep him from doing the “people’s” business. [The “people” Bush speaks of are those same “Democrats” and their fellow citizens represented by each Member of Congress - Bush doesn’t get to decide what business of the Congress should be or will be conducted - the Members of Congress (otherwise known as We, the People) decide that for themselves, under our Constitution.]
The Democrats Bush belittles as partisan politicans (from his assumed position of apolitical ‘purity,’ of course) are the same “American people” whose business Bush claims to have uppermost in mind. The people through their Congress must beg to differ with his disingenuous rhetoric, as we are quite capable of knowing which business of ours we find it most urgent and necessary to conduct. [In other words, it is time for Congress to reclaim the principled high ground of actually representing the people who elected them, rather than the corporations who fund their campaigns, and to proudly stand up and represent us, with flags flying.]
Bush, as the elected head of the Executive Branch, was chosen by the people to faithfully execute our will as expressed through the votes of our representatives in Congress. First comes Congressional will, then comes Presidential veto or execution, not the other way around.
[Senators, I now know you are capable of this, after reading many of your floor speeches last Wednesday about Iraq. Use the same script, adapted to the occasion; Senators Schumer and Feingold, in particular, covered the Constitutional fundamentals clearly and powerfully, and Senator Durbin asked some profound rhetorical questions about the vital role our Legislative Branch plays in our system of government. Please maintain your momentum, in the democratic spirit of our Founders.]
I wouldn’t worry too much about the current Supreme Court altering the eternally cloudy tenant of Executive Privilege.
If neither side backs down and this reaches the Supreme Court, I expect the court will craft a very narrow ruling favoring one side or the other. If they rule by precedent, they’ll find for the Congress.
But whichever way the court rules, I expect the ruling will be so narrow as to neither confirm nor deny Executive Privilege. The court will do its best not to set any precedents at all. The sole aim of this (cowardly) court’s ruling would be to get this specific issue off their plate as quickly as possible.
And if there is any opening for them to rule on (or punt) the case without specifically addressing Executive Privilege, they’ll jump at the chance.
raven @ 165
what % are the the judicially drafted serving(kicking doors vandalising getting shot at ill eqi etc)in the theatre of occupation now.
they won’t be reserve units.
army instead of jail?
As for Bush The Lesser’s offer of letting Harriet and Karl “talk” in a closed door session without cameras, recorders, note taking and definitely NOT UNDER OATH, it simply means that Karl and Harriet are going to LIE to their hearts’ content and they can’t be indicted for perjury. THEY’RE TELLING US UP FRONT THAT THEY ARE GOING TO LIE TO US!!! It’s the same thing as when CHENEY/ROVE/BUSH/GONZALEZ did all that wiretapping without subpoenas. THE ONLY REASON TO NOT GET A SUBPOENA FROM THE FISA COURT IS THAT WHAT YOU’RE DOING IS ILLEGAL AND WOULDN’T BE APPROVED BY ANY REASONABLE JUDGE. Say, spying on Democrats, Liberals, anit-war people, Quakers, the Girl Scouts, Brownies and Bluebirds.
Helen @ 16
Helen, I think you would be mostly right about our Senator Chuck. Good time for both of us to encourage him in writing or phone calls.
Crazy Horse @ 85
I believe the term is “extraordinary rendition.”