The White House says that they will let Harriet Myers and Karl Rove testify, but unsworn with no transcript and behind closed doors. Screw that. Schumer is on TV saying that they will move forward with subpoenas on Thursday because this isn't what Leahy outlined on Sunday.
Enough with this government by super-secret probation. Let's hope the Judiciary Committee sticks to its guns.
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Don’t agree to it!
Shrubby looks like he’d like to rub those shoulders, doesn’t he?
That’s one damn scary photo, Jane! God knows what you’ll find under that latex human face mask.
Balrog, no, he’s wondering what she’d look like bald
on super secret, double fudge, cross your fingers and hold your breath background.
Two simultaneous new threads?
I’m taking a deep breath to realize this is just the White House’s proposal and that the Senate Judiciary Committee has not accepted that offer.
I’m glad Schumer, with Conyers standing next to him, is clearly unimpressed by this WH proposal. He says he believes they still will give Leahy the authority to subpoena them. Use it, baby.
“Let’s hope the Judiciary sticks to its guns.”
Jane – What can we do to help them stick to their guns?
Who should we call?
Thanks!
He’s amazed that the wound healed so well when they replaced her brain.
shoot – sorry, bold stuck on.
Worst President in the entire history of the United States of America!!! Worst!!
((((jane))))
thanks for the word on Schumer above – cnn was reporting they would go for WH offer
Here it comes, the constitutional crisis is almost at hand. Bush will refuse to answer to Congress, and the subpoenas will be fought with everything. I just don’t see how Prince Prissy avoids impeachment if he keeps acting this way.
What exactly is the rationale or precedent for this sort of thing? It’s almost as if they are saying members of the administration are beyond the reach of congressional oversight……because why exactly?
Of course subpoenas are required.
What if they ignore them?
A nation of laws or ’some people more equal than others?’
Behind close doors just tells me Rove & Myers have alot to hide!
SUBPOENA! The precedent is recent and clear. The White House’s culpability is blatant and undeniable. Subpoena.
Whoa, got seriously EPUed in Pach’s dupe thread to this one. Now it doesn’t even exist!
Anyhow, of course the Bushies are stonewalling, it’s the only tactic they have left, as their machinations are laid bare to the public in the documents we’ve all seen over the last couple weeks.
Dems would be suckers if they took the counteroffer, so good on them if they subpoena anyway.
To be fair, Karl has a tendency to melt when he’s exposed to direct sunlight.
puppethead @
12
It does seem like it will be showdown time. Cross your fingers that the Judiciary folks have the gumption to hold tight, this is long overdue.
There is no reason or justification for secret testimony. Why not just demand it be non-sworn as well ? Actually — secret w/o transcript is essentially a proxy for unsworn. Who cares if it is under oath if nobody except 10 people are allowed to know what was said ?
Constitutional Crisis my ass, – even the idgits over at The Corner know there is plenty of precedent for WH ‘aides’ to testify, under oath, before Congress . . . the bulk of which come from Whitewater/Lewinski – tee hee
Oh great, now I will have to listen to Craig Crawford talk about Constitutional Crisis over and over.
After today, I think I will let Dennis Kucinich speak for me.
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/….._0319.html
Joe Blow: ‘I’ll appear in court for my drunk driving charge but NO TRANSCRIPT and totally OFF THE RECORD! have I made myself clear?’
Officer of the Law: ‘You talkin’ to me?’
queridobobo @ 17
hahahahaha
Bush administration staff have proven that there is ZERO reason to believe them if they aren’t under oath. Even when under oath they still lie, they just lie less.
Shut down the government. This is too important. Shut down everything.
“you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free”
Um,or not.
BTW, wholly off-topic, but what does EPU’ed mean?
BushCo has every reason to think the Dems will fold on this matter. And if they do, they will never be taken seriously again.
High noon. And 4:20.
Someone tell ‘berto to “Go MUCK yourself!”
Give him a Cheney greeting when he’s in Committee.
Under oath and in front of live cameras. If we have to pay the bill, we get to see
the pigswhat we’re buying.If Karl and Shrub don’t like it, they can
resignlook for new jobs. Hey, they work for us, don’t they?Millineryman @
8
Replace what? Mr Dylan noted, “when ya got nothin you go nothin to lose”.
Come on now, Jane. If they’ve backed off of “double super-secret probation,” I think we should applaud their willingness to compromise.
FWIW, I just tried to call my beloved (/snark) Sen Norm Coleman’s office to express outrage about Karl scurrying from the light. Line busy at the local office. That hasn’t happened before. Think others might be annoyed?
Do we start the phone tree now?
No oath
No consequences
No consequences
No truth
No testimony
No transparency.
I have a few suggestions about what might take place in “private” meetings with Karl Rove.
david baerwald @ 27
Evil Parallel Universe
ie: stuck on an old thread while everyone else has moved on.
Goddamit! Don’t cave, Dems.
DO. NOT. CAVE.
So what happens when the White House does not comply with the subpoenas?
Dems will have two choices that I can see, go to the courts, or impeach.
Going to the courts is going to take a long time with an uncertain outcome, but impeachment is scary.
queridobobo @
17
he does look like he’s made outta wax.
Looseheadprop said it. (paraphrase) tell me again, Nancy, why is Impeachment off the table?
When the Republicans blocked a motion to have Gonzales sworn in last year, and when they did the same with the oil industry execs, the obvious meaning was “please lie to us.” And whaddaya know, they did!
Somehow, I don’t think that’s going to fly with the Dems, especially considering Leahy’s recent statement:
“Oh nice, her earrings are smaller today, I probably won’t choke on them…”
Dreamy
bdu @ 35
and sometimes they just leave you there to twist. . .slowly slowly.
If the administration officials refuse to testify under oath, Republicans could get clobbered politically.
Democrats (and the progressive blogosphere) just need to start asking elected Republicans to go on the record as to whether they think Karl Rove and his buddies should testify under oath about their role in the firing of well-performing U.S. Attorneys.
The Bush administration is radioactive right now, and Republicans who are up for reelection in 2008 are going to need to start distancing themselves from Bush in a significant way in the near future. They can read the writing on the wall.
And we have to force them to come out on the record in favor of law and order for the Bush administration.
I’m thinking of something like what Talking Points Memo did, when they got ever congressperson on the record regarding their position on Social Security.
Only this time, the question is whether Karl Rove is above the law or should testify under oath.
david baerwald @ 26
EPU, you say epu, WELL I will try to help.
EPU is Evil Parallel Universe. That is in essence a state of being. A state of being for a wholly relevent comment that no one will ever read. They will never read it because it was posted at or about the time a new thread appears.
Jane Hamsher @ 18
amen, jane. no real accountabilty is possible without the necessary gumption.
note to all watching cable tv news… please let us cable-less folks know how this is shaking out… are schumer/conyers/leahey saying they will subpoena?
just a wee ‘aside’ about Harriett Miers: She resembles one of those Christian TV Minister’s wives who sit on the sofa with a zipped up grin wringing her hands while the ‘head of the family’ talks about God’s blessings on their latest trip to……….oh I don’t know……a refugee camp, Ted Haggard’s rec room……..whatever…….
@35
Thanks. I think I’ve been EPU’ed for about six years, then. Actually, longer, cos I’m a Californian, and remember Gov. Reagan.
Not Acceptable!!!!!
Rove needed 5 times before he told the truth to a Federal Grand Jury so he would not be indicted by Fitzpatrick.
I don’t much care if I see what he says, but he has to be under oath.
Same for Miers
Dick Durata @ 38
Impeachment is only scary if you believe it is. There’s nothing to be afraid of here, people. This is the exact sort of president that impeachment was written to take care of. If not for this, then why have it at all?
To paraphrase, when it comes to impeaching Bush, the only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
A little shop on Fleet Street Karl ‘Sweeny Todd’ Rove
My seven-year old daughter delights in digging beneath the rocks in our yard. The object of her delight? She loves to find and hold the salamanders that live in the dark dampness. She has one set that she has created a narrative around — adventures, family entanglements, even salamander school. The kid has an imagination!
I’m going to suggest that she names the two leading salamanders Karl and Harriet….
OK EVERYONE – I just sent an email to the House Judiciary Committee website urging them not to consider this proposal. I also went to Leahys site and sent a letter there as well.
You all realize what’s happened – the WH has basically just admitted their guilt. TELL LEAHY AND CONYERS, THEY MUST SUBPOENA. If they subpoena now and the WH cites executive privledge, then we may have impeachment closer on the horizon than we realize.
What happened to the Pach post? Was I seeing things?
From reading the Federal law re: lying to Congress, it seems that being under oath is irrelevant. The problem is that the law is not enforced.
Could a person who has the link to the law re-post it?
So, Conyers (House) agrees to casual meeting and Schumer (Senate) says its got to be under oath. Could they be working in tandem with the old one-two?
THIS IS A CROCK OF CRAP!!!!AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGH!
I am so sick of these people! I don’t want them to mosey up to the Hill at their leisure for a friendly chat behind closed doors. I want I want oaths given, notes taken and hot glaring TV lights!!! I want answers! I don’t want them to be allowed to come in and lie their way through the GOP talking points!
GROW SOME BACKBONE, CONGRESS!
UGH! I am so angry!
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 13
How dare they?
How DARE they?
It makes me so angry that they think they are unaccountable for their deeds. It’s as if they think the country is their own personal property.
Light Em Up Firedogs
and start with Sanchez & Conyers !
fyi – calls and faxes carry more weight w/ staff
Scroom.
Newbies who want the meaning of FDL shorthands:
For acronyms, go here.
For definitions, go here.
I hope they start pulling the frigging trigger!
Twin Planets @ 52
Salamanders are way too cute. Now slugs on the other hand…
This is your moment, Arlen.
Trot them forth, under oath.
This is long overdue.
Biodun @ 59
How Dailykos of you.
Biodun @ 59
Thanks, always enjoy your posts.
We need Glaring TV lights on at these testimonies!!
No more under-the-covers BS!
NO CAVING TO THE WHITE HOUSE!!!!!
Steve @ 53
Just a guess, but since the comments are coming fast and furious, it’s gotta be hard to keep coming up with relevant content (new posts). I’m sure Pach’s post is just waiting for this one to hit the magic 200 comment limit.
It’s time for the dems to stand up and roar from the top of the Capitol that the WH shows nothing but contempt for we, the people.
Leahy, Conyers, Schumer, Sanchez– fight this to the finish and get those subpoenas flying forth, fast and furious.
I am not scared of impeachment. I am scared of this criminal gang.
That Harriet is such a good Bush soldier.
Tort the troops.
pwrlght @ 14
That’s exactly what it says! No… SCREAMS!! I’m a liar! A liar I tell you! LI – AR! Liar! Liar! Liar!
cbl @ 58
done!
Conyers and Schumer both need to wake up and smell the cesspool!
There is absolutely no reason to negotiate!
Conyers and Schumer apparently need a remedial lesson in power politics: you ARE the Majority in Congress. You do NOT have to negotiate with these criminalistas! Just what part of Power don’t you folks understand?
Comity be damned! Full speed ahead and fire those subpoenas without regard for those poor ol’ Repugs’ feelings!
gotta go out -
all these calls for backbones and balls – we must do the same, especially those of us who normally don’t
y’all want glare, spine, intestinal fortitude ???
give it to ‘em
am on hold w/ Sanchez’s office as I type
CONTACT INFORMATION:
United States Senate
Committee on the Judiciary
224 Dirksen Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
Phone: (202) 224-7703
Fax: (202) 224-9516
Call
This is an interesting showdown.
Prezdint is offering apparent cooperation without the risk of accountability and of having their statements withstand further scrutiny.
Rejecting the offer makes the judiciary committee seem uncooperative to those who assume the Prezdint and his people are entitled to the presumption of integrity.
Bushbaby has to be informed with blunt instrument that his monarchy is over.
I hope the Senate sticks to their guns. Leahy and Feingold hold the winning hand here. I hope they call Smirk’s bluff. Let’s see John Roberts say that Smirk is above the law. I dare him. We might just get to see what whether Roberts is a man of the law or whether he’ll go down as one of the worst Chief Justice’s ever.
Waccamaw @ 84
Schumer’s already told Bush “no dice”. See my last comment.
So they didn’t cave!
Neil @ 75
And who would that person be?
Just called Conyer’s office and told them not to cave on this, make hearings as public as possible.
May I propose an all purpose slogan for the coming days? How about “No more BS!” It seems to be a sufficient answer to every administration gambit.
The Democrats might find it congenial and empowering. Any Republicans who want to repent are welcome to do so.
And then there’s Joe Lieberman: A party of one, wherever he goes. May he always be exceptional.
*xyz @ 43
We keep heaing this is a manufactured scandal. Well then, why doesn’t Turdblossom want to get the truth out?
Yum !
MMMMMMM Peach Mint !
And conviction the after taste.
Can`t happen too soon for the good of the planet & its passengers.
“Eventually, the truth will emerge. And when it does, this house of cards, built of deceit, will fall.” – Robert C. Byrd
Cave? Of course they will……..what else have we come to expect from our *democrat* politicans? And I mean that * * in the most perjorative way possible. They let this one slide and there’s no tomorrow.
david baerwald @ 48
That’s Gullyvornia now that our our Governator is in charge! *sigh*
It’s time for every democrat and honest republican to ask why they do not want to testify under oath?
*xyz @ 7
ROVE-Busters!
ah me, fifty yrs. old today. What a present ! A milestone in history.
The crumbling of this criminal cabel..who could ever ask for more?
Oh No closed doors and they will testify under oath. They are common criminals. Not above the law, dispite the fact they think they are a royal dynasty.
..They are our public servants,they serve at OUR pleasure.
Impeachment must always be on the table. Its our Constitution, we all get testy when they mess with it. They took an oath to protect it. And if one aspect of the Patriot Act can be deleted so can the rest of that pernicious document.
High crimes and misdomeaners…you betcha !
yeeeeee haa !
Tancredo also wants Gonzo to move on, but for different reasons:
My bold. Go figure.
Biodun @ 60
Tried it for EPU–wasn’t there. Thanks above for cluing me in. & thanks for the links for future use.
gah, the hubris is galling.
(bold mine)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..43878.html
Just who do these motherfuckers think they are? Under oath. On the TV. New rules. Don’t like it? Pack your fucking bags.
Maddy @ 74
Just called and registered my strong opinion that it’s time for the White House to offer a public presentation of the truth, under oath.
chimpy to make statement re: USAs at 5:45 PM eastern this evening from the White House
WASHINGTON – The White House offered Tuesday to make political strategist Karl Rove and former counsel Harriet Miers available for interviews — but not testimony under oath — before congressional committees investigating the firing of eight federal prosecutors.
Sen. Charles Schumer, D-NY, said he would still press for White House aides to testify under oath, saying that White House counsel Fred Fielding “indicated he didn’t want to negotiate” whether Rove and others would have to appear in a full hearing. “That doesn’t mean we’re not going to try,” Schumer said.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/fired_prosecutors
Spell check should be my friend, I meant to say democratic and republic
Has anyoe else seen this? From RS, with no additional details
“Bush to make statement on attorney scandal at 5:45 EST PM”
Is this a caption contest? Because I’d enter one saying “See? I can make her talk without moving my lips!”
Isn’t it still a crime to lie to Congress, regardless of whether or not the person is under oath?
To ward off subpoenas, White House offers Rove, Miers testimony behind closed doors
Ron Brynaert
Published: Tuesday March 20, 2007
Print This Email This
House Judiciary Chairman John Conyers, Jr. (D-MI) and Subcommittee Chairwoman Linda Sanchez called a meeting this morning to authorize subpoenas for five current and former White House and Justice Department officials, RAW STORY has learned. Later in the day, the White House offered to allow two officials to give limited testimony “behind closed doors.”
According to a press release, “The Subcommittee on Commercial and Administrative Law (CAL) will meet TOMORROW, March 21st at 10:15 am in 2141 Rayburn House Office Building to consider subpoenas for Kyle Sampson, Karl Rove, Harriet Miers, William Kelley, and Scott Jennings, as well as White House and Justice Department documents, which have not been provided to date.”
Late afternoon, White House counsel Fred Fielding offered to allow Rove and Miers to give unsworn testimony behind closed doors, according to a report on MSNBC, and later confirmed on CNN. The pair would not be testifying under oath, and the White House also doesn’t want transcripts made of the testimony.
Not very happy with the offer, Senator Chuck Schumer (D-NY) called it a “very clever proposal,” and said that it will be considered by the Congressional committee leaders. Democrats have been calling for on-the-record testimony by Rove, Miers and others, and the Senate may issue its own subpoenas.
“We’ll proceed with subpoenas on Thursday,” Schumer told MSNBC.
snip
My bold.
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/….._0320.html
Let’s do more than hope — act!
Ask the House Judiciary Committee to subpoena: Here’s the link:
http://judiciary.house.gov/
How is Issa connected to Rove’s Shop?
Froomkin
Wil @ 96
CNN just announced it too.
The executive branch should stand by the facts in this matter, whether the facts cause embarrassment or not.
This potential scandal in the context of the other executive branch scandals calls for an open and public airing of the facts. Remember that democrats were elected into the majority on the promise of transparency in government.
No more secrets. No more lies.
The termination of the US attorneys is a matter of public record. If the decision-making process was ethical and legal, it should be able to withstand public scrutiny. If it was not, the public has the right to know and the consequences of unethical or illegal acts must be enforced in a just way.
Rove.
CNN reporting that Bush will have a statement at 5:45 ET at return from WH. The chess match continues. Can we say “Nightly News” stunt?
Even staunch conservatives [Fein, Barr, et al] say today that this president has gone too far in shredding the Constitutional protections we should hold dear.
Why do Bush and Rove and their minions hate America and democracy? What more are they hiding?
I’m predicting Abu will be Gone-zales by the end of Wednesday’s business…
I’m confused. A poster at Kos, quoting Raw Story, says that Conyers and Sanchez WILL issue subpoenas. Yet here, it sounds like they’ve agreed to Fielding’s terms. No cable. Clarification, anybody?
lolo @ 103
Fucking Bastard isn’t gonna weasle out this time
SW @ 92
Exactly. Someone needs to remind these dirtbags that, under the constitution, they work for US, the people. And as such, they are required to appear under oath when testifying about important subjects like ethical lapses at the highest rung of the government ladder and obstruction of justice.
Bustednuckles @ 100
Go get ‘em, Chuck!
Celtic Music @ 107
nothing has been agreed to. subpoena power to be granted tomorrow AM.
Bustednuckles @ 100
The Dems stay firm, and don’t blink.
So now it’s Bush’s move.
twolf1 @ 93
Heckuva job, Gonzo.
Bustednuckles @ 79
Some of the 30% of the US population that gives Bush a favorable job rating.
Ed*ard Teller @ 106
at 6pm today (if reports of bush’s presser at 5:45pm are correct).
Bush: vaya con dios, cuz you is Gonzo~
A sudden prime time news statement from Bush the Lesser? Does anyone else feel the echoes of Nixon in this?
Wil @
71
I did it too… (btw, John Campbell in CA-42 is such a right wing tool – he makes me flipping crazy.)
emptywheel @ 82
Exactly.
So we have three complementary strategies, as I see it:
1. Keep pressure on the Democrats on the Judiciary Committee to force an open hearing, under oath. This is done by FDL’ers (and the progressive blogosphere) making calls to as many members of the Judiciary Committee as possible, as well as to their local representatives.
2. Get Republican and Democrats on the record regarding whether Rove and his colleagues, who are known to be involved in the firing of well-performing U.S. attorneys, should testify under oath. This would be similar to Josh Marshall’s Social Security campaign, where he got nearly everyone to commit to a firm position on the matter, and publicly called out everyone who waffled.
3. Keep asking, asking, asking why the Bush administration is afraid of the truth.
Why are they afraid of the truth and what else they hiding?
Why are they afraid of the truth and how can we trust them if they won’t speak before the public?
Why does the Bush administration have a problem with the truth?
angie @ 91
Schumer says subpoenas will go out on Thursday. See Phoenix Woman at 76
lolo @ 103
“Effective immediately, I and my entire cabinet are resigning. Go ahead, have your government back, but I’m warning you, it’s hard work.”
Gawd, I wish.
selise @ 115
Intereting thought. But wouldn’t that take way his exective privilege status? (if he has it)
Just emailed and called…oh there must must be supoenas …they have lied and proven their disregard for the law many times already.
Enough of the boy king thinking he and his court of scoundrels are above the law.
light em up is right…jam the phones , send those emails
Bush presser at 5:45?
Gettin’ mighty close to your bed-time there, aren’t you George?
Bush is too late in trying to stop the bus with Gonzo’s body.
Looking at that photo it occurs to me that I really don`t want to know where Mr. Bush`s hand is.
What a puppet she is.
“Those who make peaceful change impossible make violent change inevitable” – John F. Kennedy
The termination of the US attorneys is a matter of public record. If the decision-making process was ethical and legal, it should be able to withstand public scrutiny. If it was not, the public has the right to know and the consequences of unethical or illegal acts must be enforced in a just way.
Rove.
Bush is trying to shield Rove. Gonzo is the fall guy.
Zee @ 118
Try having Heather Wilson (NM-01)
CHIMPY is prepared to say he wants this political witchhunt over so that he is willing to let Rove and Miers clear their name. If that doesn’t work he’s going to announce that we invaded Iran.
Dems should have two taglines about this from here on out:
“Rule of law” – a simple echo for anyone who remembers Clinton Crazytown.
“The President and his appointees are accountable to the good people of this country, and as such need to be questioned about this matter under oath and in full view of the American people.”
selise >
That was the conclusion I drew as well.
“…This is not a game.” – Lorie Van Auken (2001.09.11 widow)
“We’ll proceed with subpoenas on Thursday,” Schumer told MSNBC.
snip
My bold.
Schumer is my senator. Just send him an email saying offer of secret conversation is evidence of guilt and that Americans’ trust in government will take a hit if the testimony is not in public under oath.
cnn – chimp will NOT be announcing that gonzo is fired
In that photo Georgie looks like he’s had a couple of drinks & his innate cockiness is showing.
The President’s appointees can (with the approval of the President) assert Executive Privilege and that’s that. The Committees ought to take what they can get…
CNN is reporting part one of my statement at 129. Still no news in Iran though..
BTW,
Dismissed US Prosecutor Bud Cummins is on MSNBC right now….
OT – from TPM:
funding the occupation for another 18 months? – stupid and immoral.
No transcript, no public scrutiny? NO WAY! Subpoena Rove and Meirs and have them testify ON THE RECORD AND IN PUBLIC!!
Neil @
75
[my bold]
And aside from Joe Who and Hagel, just who would that be?
twolf1 @ 133
this is why i don’t make bets on my guesses!
Senate Judiciary Committee
Patrick J. Leahy (202) 224-4543
CHAIRMAN, D-VERMONT
Edward M. Kennedy (202) 224-4242
D-MASSACHUSETTS
Arlen Specter (202) 224-4254
RANKING MEMBER, R-PENNSYLVANIA
Joseph R. Biden, Jr.(202) 224-5042
D-DELAWARE
Orrin G. Hatch (202) 224-5251
R-UTAH
Herb Kohl
D-WISCONSIN (202) 224-5653
Charles E. Grassley (202) 224-3744
R-IOWA
Dianne Feinstein (202) 224-3841
D-CALIFORNIA
Jon Kyl (202) 224-4521
R-ARIZONA
Russell D. Feingold (202) 224-5323
D-WISCONSIN
Jeff Sessions (202) 224-4124
R-ALABAMA
Charles E. Schumer (202) 224-6542
D-NEW YORK
Lindsey Graham (202) 224-5972
R-SOUTH CAROLINA
Richard J. Durbin (202) 224-2152
D-ILLINOIS
John Cornyn (202) 224-2934
R-TEXAS
Benjamin L. Cardin (202) 224-4524
D-MARYLAND
Sam Brownback (202) 224-6521
R-KANSAS
Sheldon Whitehouse
D-RHODE ISLAND (202) 224-2921
Tom Coburn (202) 224-5754
R-OKLAHOMA
Crooks and Liars looks like it has been hacked.
Could it be the overwhelming demand that subpoenas be issued today, in the face of the stonewalling?
The whitehouse has no leg to stand on here, since the McGrain v. Daugherty decision of 1927 (fallout from the Teapot Dome scandal). No one can deny a request from congress to testify under oath. No one.
Witney @ 53
There IS a Constitutional crisis. It is already here. It’s called the theory of the Unitary Executive. The only issue is how that crisis will be resolved.
Both the House and Senate Judicairy Committees need to subpoena. They MUST force this issue, or else Checks and Balances are gone forever and the “noble experiment” that was once our constitutional system will be gone forever.
Modest Mort @
81
Cozumel @
95
Remember, Feingold is on the Judiciary too. Call him. He loves hearing from us. ;-) His staff is awesome(They treat a poor out of state schmuck like me better than Arlen’s does.. and Arlen is my damn Senator)
bdu @ 109
We also need to remind them that they made Clinton testify under oath on TV about his personal business. What we want testimony on is the American people’s business. Hell yes we want it under oath and on TV. I want it on the jumbotron in Times Square!
Breaking from TPM, presidential statement at 5:45PM.
Smaller fish issue, I bet Elston is a goner. He’s the one that made the Cummins phone call, and also has the “will this allow us to unlink” note wrt
Margaret’sChiara’s resignation.Jumping into the thread midstream here. Sorry. But I was thinking that this issue is catching fire because there is no way that Bushites can say that firing the US attorneys was terrorist related. They can’t claim that national security will be harmed if they testify publicly. All those cover issues are gone. Refusing to testify in public clearly shows that they don’t want to show what they are doing and that they disdain answering to the public. Finally, it is clear enough that those who don’t ordinarily pay attention can get the gist of it.
Just got off the phone with Elijas at the House Judiciary Committee office (202-225-3951). Told him that I thought they SHOULD BE SUBPOENAED and he said to hold tight because the vote would come tomorrow on their decision. You can tell they are getting clobbered over there.
I just pulled up to the lake a few minutes ago, but I did see Schumer and Leahy on C-SPAN earlier. Has anybody here covered Schumer’s remark that since some of the info on how DoJ and the White House co-ordinated the US Attorney firing’s has come out the way it did, the WH can no longer claim executive privilege regarding compelled, sworn testimony by Meirs and Rove?
So…do we set up a pool?
Whadya give me for odds that Bush announces he will speak to Judiciary in a closed door session, in order to try and cut off the Judiciary from seeking subpoenas?
Whadya give me for odds that Bush brings us us the figurative head of Alberto Gonzales in an effort to staunch our blood lust for the truth?
Whadya give me for odds that Bush does one of his cocky up-yours speeches that all but tells the Judiciary to piss up a rope and that he thinks Gonzo’s done a heckuva job?
Whadya give me his speech is slurred?
I figure 2-1 on the first and third, even odds on the second and fourth.
You?
JPL @ 129
Good prediction. I think he will announce Gonzo is gonzo, try to lay it all on Gonzo, and try to finesse a way out of further investigation. Ever since the announcement (selective leak to select journalists) that candidates for the next AG were being interviewed, we knew Gonzo was gonzo. The question is whether the hounds get called off Rove’s malodorous scent.
uuhooh Temper tantrum at 5:45.
Precisely. Ignoring the existing crisis would do the greatest harm. It is long past time to bring the unitary excutive concept itself into the sunlight as well.
Rove was fired from the 1992 George H.W. Bush presidential campaign after he planted a negative story. How ironic if Rove’s underhanded manuverings now end up costing George W. Bush what’s left of his credibility and his presidency.
This is all lovely and is likely to lead to the offing of Abu and to bang in another nail to Rove’s coffin, but only about 63 have posted on Eriposte’s brilliant post about the Yellow Cake which leads to Cheney/Bush, and even peerhaps to the Baby Bliar poodle.
The YC forgeries have CPD and thus Plame connections. The actual forgers have never been investigated and could well leasd direct to Cheney via the WHIG. There is thus a real suspicion of a great treason, which would nail both Cheney and Bush.
Maddy @ 141
I beg people, please call Arlen !!!! Seriously, swamp his office with calls. Be nice, but be a pain. ;-) He already got away with passing the law that caused this in the first place. Make him atone for his stupidity.
P.S. In the interests of full disclosure, Arlen is my Senator. Sad, I know.
eCAHNomics @ 90:
For EPU’d, go to the second link for definitions. FYI, EPU is actually named for a regular FDLer:
Bonus: EPU’d also means a comment anywhere on a previous thread that you quote on a current thread.
JPL @
86
And get the views of every Senator and Congressperson who doesn’t think Rove and Co. should testify under oath out in public, so their constituents can remind them of their own job security.
Heard Schumer live a little before 3pm EST; said subpoenas are going out.
I’ll be shocked if they don’t. Arlen’s not in charge anymore.
No, I dumped my post because I was mistaken to post it. I thought Jane was out and so I posted the breaking news item, but Jane was home and she was on it, so I dumped mine for hers.
Heh. Dirty minds, same political gutter.
If Rove testifies, he’ll throw anybody within reach under the bus. Remember the first WH spin on this, that it was all Harriet Myers’ idea?
Rut roh. Put ‘em both on the same panel and watch the fur fly.
I predict that Rove will eventually be compelled to testify before the committee under oath, but he’ll bring an “I am not a potted plant” lawyer who will obstruct and deflect inconvenient questions.
5:45 pm is Bush’s blame the democratic party time. Tonights paper dump must be bad if he’s trying to get on the evening news.
JPL @ 135
The target date for Iran is now the end of the third week of April. It probably can’t be moved forward.
Move over a little, wouldya?
Quebecois — here, your cheat sheet:
In thinking that a document dump in the age of the internet and bloggers would help their cause, the Bush Administration shows a suprising lack of real world experience and perspective. It’s on par with George H.W. Bush’s suprise at seeing a supermarket scanner.
posted ph # @141 members of judiciary
all of senate ph #s here:
http://www.senate.gov/general/…..rs_cfm.cfm
Are these document dumps voluntary or in response to a subpeona? If its the former, the good stuff will not be released.
The Dickster was probably reading the Dogposts and he started feeling ill (and rightly so), so checked himself into the hospital to hide until this all blows over. YOU WISH!
Ed*ard Teller @ 164
please tell me you’re joking and that this isn’t based on any informed speculation?
Witney @ 148
Just called them too.
looseheadprop @ 143
A Constitutional crisis indeed.
An interesting emergence of normally divergent groups converged in today’s news cycle…
[1] the Senate’s 94-2 vote cancelling the AG’s power,
[2] the showdown between the House/ Senate Judiciary Committees and the White House,
[3] today’s news conference with conservatives Bob Barr, constitutional scholar Bruce Fein et al announcing the launch of their launch of their campaign to “restore checks and balances and civil liberties protections under assault by the Executive Branch”.
my, my.
Dammit. Got thru to fax on the first try. My POS fax machine jammed. Now can’t get through. Maybe that’s good news, though.
Reading about Tim Griffin. Fascinating stuff. They are talking about his start date in Mid-November. His interview is December 8th.
I mean, talk about being INSTALLED.
NZ Expat @ 147
Excellent point.
omg jeff sessions office just hung up on me. All i said was the american people insist on subpoenas…then click ! can you believe that sh*t. Feingold’s office totally polite.
call em all people
call em all !
Ralph Kramden @ 162
You mean, like Robert Luskin?
I wouldn’t put it past Bush to rollout a new and bright shiny object, perhaps a new crisis involving national security. It would an extremly risky move though, and that’s why I think he might try it.
Pat_AlexVA @ 175..Tim Griffin is to involved in the muck to survive. There is also the issue that he is totally unqualified for the job.
Neil @ 127
Gonzo is this week’s scooter libby
Prairie Sunshine @
105
Chess? I doubt Bushie could play checkers, and frankly, the rest of his crew don’t strike me as all that bright either.
And nothing Cheney’s done is all that smart either — just evil.
I still don’t know what we’ve been afraid of all these years.
Put Fat Bastard and Frau Farbissina under oath; I want to watch them sweat as they contemplate prison time for perjury.
Buy some brooms, we have a lot of trash to sweep up, maybe some mops and shovels, the tossers have shite all over everything.
proudprogressive >
Take that as a good sign. They are under extreme pressure they can not handle and are coming apart.
Not time to back off because the wall is beginning to crack and crumble. Time to step up the pressure setting to 11 !
Rout them & show NO MERCY
AATTTTTTTAAAAACCCCCCKKKKKKK !
“A house of cards can stand for a long time in a glass cage. But not when exposed to the elements.” – Z.globalguerrillas.typepad.com
who’s democracy is it, anyway?
we need a strike.
something really huge and country-wide, cross all cultures. a nationwide sit down stop work strike on this govt. how about all govt workers walk off their jobs?
Dick Durata @
38
Impeachment is *not* scary. He is not a King, he’s a guy with a job. Killing a head of state, now *that* is scary. Beheading Charles I, or hanging Saddam Hussien, or a firing squad, like the Ciaucescu’s — that is seriously heavy busniess and not to be undertaken lightly.
But impeaching is not a revolutionary act of any sort. It is not a ‘constitutional crisis’, it is perfectly constitutional. It is housekeeping. It is firing. Like the USAtty’s who got ‘pushed out’, he’ll get over it.
Neil @ 180
Which is why it matters if you think they did it the first time.
Both the House and Senate Judicairy Committees need to subpoena. They MUST force this issue, or else Checks and Balances are gone forever and the “noble experiment” that was once our constitutional system will be gone forever.
I agree with LHP. The US is now a dictatorship. It will continue to be one until Congress has the balls to stand up to these traitors in the executive branch.
tommy yum @ 161
I’d pay to see that!
lhp @ 182 “Gonzo is this week’s scooter libby “
I think so.
Why bush? why don’t you want your people to testify under oath (cause their guilty of course) but you can’t say that. You need a reason why they can’t testify to the American people, now the exectutive privledge thing might work with the less than 30%ers who are submissive to your alpha chimpness. However Executive Privledge sounds like YOU then have something to hide! Stonewalling congress and hoping the Supremes save you is a possible way out. However the Supremes would be wary of giving the NEXT PRESIDENT most likly a democrat such power to ignore congress. You need to tell America a GOOD reason why Gonzo can’t testify. Or you can just admit you lied and fired some A.G that you didn’t like and then give them their jobs back. But that would involve YOU admitting a mistake before getting stuck in an other mess like you have in Iraq, Afghanistan, and (coming soon Iran). Tell the truth or face impeachment Alpha Chimps seem to see truth as a challenge to their authority!
Neil @ 191
Line up the Buses!!
This was my email to Judiciary Committee:
Rove, Meirs, Sampson ET AL
SUBPOENA – TESTIFY UNDER OATH BEFORE COMMITTEE – TRANSCRIPTS
All of you serve at the citizens’ pleasure!!!
maunga @ 154
I agree with you in principle. The yellowcake and Niger forgeries are the big story. However, I don’t see Congress or the media getting very excited about it. It’s a very complicated story with lots of details. We know how the MSM loves details.
Deal or No Deal?
CNN reporting this as WH offer to the Dems…
Let’s get one thing clear. This is the WH offer to we, the people. And we are sick of being stonewalled. We are sick of the coverups. We are sick of the lies. And we are holding Dems’ feet to the fire demanding they do their constitutional oversight duty.
Bush and Rove have given the finger to the American people too long. We demand testimony. In the open. Under oath. Truth. The whole truth. And nothing but the truth.
I just sent an e-mail to Sen Cornyn, who is my senator here in Texas, requesting that he do his duty and support the subpoena, forcing Miers and Rove to testify under oath. I did remind him that he is up for re-election in less than two years but I ain’t holding my breath on his complying. I just got myself on record is all…
Biodun @ 60
Thank you Boudin…
Badwater @ 167
Or JoeLieberBlog discovering *comments*, oh horrors!
proudprogressive @
178
Is it suprising? Feingold’s office is the nicest. I don’t know where Russ finds them. They treat you the same whether you are calling from Cheese land or anywhere else. Power to the People!!!!!!!!
Quick phoning report (if I did this from New Zealand, you can do it from wherever you might be in the US).
Got tepid responses from Hatch and Cornyn’s offices (but I figure that their phones need to ring…they need to get the message).
Decent response from Brownback (my senator).
Good responses from Feingold, Kennedy, Leahy, Grassley, Schumer.
Best from Biden’s office, who took time to advice me to request being transferred to the Switchboard operator and ask for next senator to save time and dialing all those numbers.
On hold for Feingold, Feinstien (never got through to her) and Schumer….no trouble getting through to Republics….I think we should hammer the R’s on the judiciary committee….the dems may already be on board.
Neil @ 179
He’s a sucker for double down and why not, we and our grandchildren will pay the bill. How do we impress upon him that this would *not* be a good time to start a war?
All of the principles aside–important as they are–I REALLY want to hear how Rove responds to questions. He’s a good spinner in friendly audiences, but has anyone ever heard him in a hostile environment? Does anyone know what his “tells” are?
daCascadian @
185
Right on!!! Call Sessions some more. It’s obvious that he’ll cave. If his staff is hanging up on people, that’s the best sign. From the frying pan into the oven!!
Take that as a good sign. They are under extreme pressure they can not handle and are coming apart.
eCAHNomics @ 203
Rove strikes me as a “sweater”. Under a vigorous examination, I think he’d be dripping wet.
Fun to watch, and maybe Karl’d shed a few unnecessary pounds too. Everybody wins.
Think Progress is reporting that Rove was a bit touchy this morning.
Called Sessions office and began with a real bright Hi! How you doing today!
Then continued in a confusing sort of accent to say my piece about nobody should be hiding behind closed doors cuz this isn’t about terrorism or national security.
Then Ya’ll tell him this now won’t ya? Please?
He seemed taken aback but cooperative.
sonate @ 188
Ed*ard Teller @
164
ET, if this is accurate (linkies?) we’ve about four weeks for some rather largish public organizing tasks. Still, weather in third week of April in DC would not preclude mass mobilizations (and out of area protesters camping in back yards to sustain a DC mobilization).
ET, I’m not seeking to put you on spot, but additional data regarding the window would be most helpful. Is that week the week in which the fourth carrier group takes up position? On that topic, does anyone have info about how long the four carrier groups could remain before one must be debarnacled (or whatever) and has to leave?
Hopefully, this is the tip of the ice berg. We are after all speaking about the People’s atty. He is supposed to uphold OUR constitution. The firings are egregious and political..but let us not forget the NSA, The Patriot Act and of course the Torture memos and the Unitary Excutive theory.
These are our disgrace as a nation, brought to us by an inbred boy king part of a long standing Bushco Dynasty for which my contempt knows no bounds.
This is hopefully just the beginning. As LHP has said and others as well. Our Constitutional Crisis is here today..long overdue from the yr. 2000…and man karmic pay back is a bitch.
just sent to Cong. Conyers (hope I was polite enough)
Dear. Congressman Conyers,
Please do not take the Bush Administration up on their bogus offer to permit Karl Rove and Harriet Miers to stop by and “chat.” Please subpoena both of them. If they refuse to testify under oath, you can hold them in contempt until they comply. Please conduct the public’s business in public. We all deserve to hear the truth.
Yours,
(Name withheld)
Fellow public servant
Attention Iowans:
Got right through to Senator Grassley (though I don’t imagine that Republican was glad to hear from me).
Call now!
Charles E. Grassley (202) 224-3744
R-IOWA
OT from TPM:
“The approval rating of the Dem-controlled Congress is starting to slip — is the culprit sluggish action on Iraq?”
– Greg Sargent
How many lies, how many lives lost ! Why because this corrupt bunch owned by the lobbiests think they are a law unto themselves. The dems are slipping, and will slip further if they do not give up on their military industrial benefactors and start protecting the citizens of this country by stopping funding to this illegal occupation. Disclose that indeed there are permanent military bases in Iraq and that going into Iran is simply UNACCEPTABLE and contra indicated for safety of the entire planet.
Please this nightmere must end. We must IMPEACH.
Keep up the pressure! I just realized that I need to be standing in front of the class I’m teaching in 25 minutes.
Whoops!
No oath
No public appearance
No transcripts
WELL NO!!!
I agree with 213. IMPEACH
Anything less than straight-on subpoenas, requiring testimony under oath and transcripts, would be “softpoenas,” and wouldn’t that be an appropriate term?
Jean2k @ 217
Yep, completely useless.
I just called Conyers office — they said they are going to stick to the subpeonas, and that it will be announced tomorrow. She asked me to “get it out to the wire.” I guess they got one too many calls this afternoon!
Quzi @
219
PHEW! Thank god they’re not backing down. Enough, already!
Quzi, have you posted this on other blogs?
Who’s gonna live blog that testimony?
Called the Judiciary Committee. The staffer was glad to hear from me, said he expected Leahy was going to push for subpeonas. Also called Leahy’s office, and am working my way down the list.
As soon as I read the above comment about a hangup at Sessions office, I called him next. The staffer I got was reasonably polite. I’m getting restrained silence from the rethug side.
Deacon Blues @ 183
I bet he can play checkers, he just never WINS!
stagemom @ 186
ok. I’m walking now. er. it’s already 5 oclock. ;)
Quzi @ 218
Called:
Patrick J. Leahy (202) 224-4242
CHAIRMAN, D-VERMONT
Edward M. Kennedy 202-224-4543
D-MASSACHUSETTS
(btw, Kennedy & Leahy numbers transposed in list @ 8 above)
Benjamin L. Cardin (202) 224-4524
D-MARYLAND
Sam Brownback (202) 224-6521
R-KANSAS
Sheldon Whitehouse
D-RHODE ISLAND (202) 224-2921
Tom Coburn (202) 224-5754
R-OKLAHOMA
and it’s nearly 5pm so I’ll get the rest of them tomorrow. Vote re to subpoena or not is Thurs? or is that House?
If these guys really believe they did the best thing for the country, they should have no qualms with testifying under oath and in public. Even Haldemann and Erlichmann testified in public.
They can hold the meeting behind closed doors if:
The interrogators get to use torture tactics to bring about a confession which can then be used against them.
fuck bush bitch and his whores
After reading some of the Justice/White House emails earllier today and reading some of this web this evening, I wondered what’s in the emails about this issues now and in the past. I also wondered what good acts might have come from all the energies that went into the firing planning, had they been used for righteous endeavors that built up America rather than continued the destruction of it.
BuzzFlash had an interesting piece on Carol Lam’s dismissal connecting the CIA official about to be indicted and Dick Cheney that was rich.
I’m weary of all this. But glad that the FDL has the stamina to stay on top of all the crap.
Blessings to all!