
In the middle of a hearing talking about the seriousness of protecting covert CIA officers' identities, Congressman Tom Davis and Victoria Toensing had the following exchange.(Starting at 3:32:20 on CSPAN)
Davis: Once it gets to the press level, say someone inadvertently leaked this to the, to the press, what should the CIA do, notwithstanding the act, what should the CIA do or be able to do to protect their operatives and what do you think they did in this case?
Toensing: Well, they didn't do anything in this case. As anybody looking at it, as I view it, as I see all the facts, I have no reason whatsoever to believe that Ms. Plame was covert under the statute. I mean, they can call … I've represented a covert … officer, it's not an agent, actually, the statute uses that term but Ms. Plame was a covert officer, I've represented a covert officer uh, from the CIA, and let me tell you, in the course of my representation, the New York Times was going to print her name on its front page. And the New York Times reporter, a wonderful reporter, Tim Weiner called me and said the CIA had just called him and told him that they were going to go after him criminally if they printed her name. No such threat was ever given to Bob Novak. And, good for Tim Weiner, he went ahead and printed it anyway.
Huh?!?!?! There's a lot to balk at in this passage. Toensing helpfully points out that the IIPA–which she had been describing as a statute crafted with careful, accurate language–uses a misleading term, "covert agent" for arguably the most important term in the statute. Once again, Toensing makes claims to having all the facts about issues that remain under grand jury secrecy. And then–again, remember this is a hearing on the importance of protecting covert agents' identities–she says, "good for Tim Weiner, he published a covert officer's identity."
Now, before I examine what such a shocking claim means for Toensing's argument, let me explain that it's not (quite) as bad as it sounds. The covert officer in question was Janine Brookner, and Toensing was representing her in a bias lawsuit against the CIA.
What happened to Ms. Brookner, one of the C.I.A.'s first female station chiefs? The agency says she suddenly became a drunken sexual temptress in Jamaica. But six fellow spies say hers is a case study in male chauvinism at the C.I.A.
For her part, Ms. Brookner contends in a scathing lawsuit that she has been punished for challenging the agency's "pervasive atmosphere of machismo and sexual discrimination" by filing a bias complaint and trying to discipline a violent subordinate.
[snip]
Ms. Brookner's Federal suit, Jane Doe Thompson v. Woolsey, was filed in July by her lawyer, Victoria Toensing, a Justice Department official in the Reagan Administration who is also a former chief counsel to the Senate Intelligence Committee.
[snip]
Jane Doe Thompson v. Woolsey, filed under seal, was partly unsealed last week after the C.I.A. deleted large parts of it. The agency says it cannot comment on the case. Ms. Brookner's real name, career achievements and personal history, blacked out of the suit by the agency, ostensibly for reasons of national security, were detailed by six current and former C.I.A. colleagues. She declined to be interviewed.
In other words, Brookner was being screwed over by the CIA, and Toensing presumably applauded Weiner for publishing her name because it served to put a face on the pervasive sexual discrimination of the CIA (and, no doubt, helped her win a $400,000 settlement against the Agency). Toensing spoke repeatedly about retaining a way in the IIPA for CIA whistleblowers to expose wrong-doing, and it seems naming Brookner would be one way (but not a necessary way) to expose the CIA. Though that doesn't, presumably, change the fact that all of Brookner's contacts may have been compromised when her name was published on page A1 of the NYT.
(Brookner now defends CIA officers in personnel cases, but she apparently treats their covert identities with more discretion: "But she can't talk about many of the cases because they are sealed by the court. In fact, the names of some of her clients are classified.")
But here's the sad irony–or set of ironies. First, Toensing's defense then is almost a mirror image of her offense now. Then, she was arguing against the injustice of a talented female officer being screwed over and stuck in a desk job at CIA headquarters–and eventually, forced to leave the Agency.
The agency's inspector general investigated those accusations, took statements under pain of perjury and concluded in a December 1992 report that Ms. Brookner, then a 24-year veteran of the C.I.A.'s clandestine service, was an alcoholic minx who should be denied a previously offered job as chief of station in Prague. Instead, she was given a desk job with few duties at the agency's headquarters in Langley, Va. She then filed a Federal suit in July, seeking to regain her lost status.
[snip]
The settlement does not address the reinstatement of Ms. Brookner, who intelligence officials said today is likely to leave the agency.
Now, of course, Toensing seems perfectly content that a talented female officer would be forced into a desk job and deprived of her career.
Then, Toensing objected when powerful interests launched a smear campaign to retaliate against a whistleblower. Now, she finds such a smear campaign perfectly fair.
Mostly, a comparison of the two cases suggests that Toensing has an abiding dislike for the CIA that overrides any real assessment of the facts.
Finally, Toensing's comment–both her depiction of the event and her celebration that Weiner ignored the CIA–does one more thing. It reveals (as if her blathering already hadn't) her fundamental dishonesty about the efficacy of warning journalists not to publish covert officers' names. One of Toensing's key arguments is that the CIA should have intervened more strongly with Novak–and that such a warning would have worked. Well, first of all, Tim Weiner is proof positive that such warnings don't work. Weiner presumably judged that the CIA was covering up their own errors, which is precisely what Novak likes to argue (with less justification) about his own column.
But here's where the mirror returns. Because, of course, Weiner published Brookner's name in an effort to help her cause. She may not have bought off on the leak of her name–but those speaking for her best interest (including, apparently, Toensing) represented to Weiner he should publish her name.
With Novak and Valerie, it was the exact opposite. There is no way of imagining that leaking Plame's name and status to Novak would benefit her. Even the least malicious of the leakers–Armitage–was accusing her of nepotism. To Toensing, however, it is all the same, leaking Brookner's identity with some foreknowledge, and leaking Valerie's name even though her husband tried to stop it.
In the end, the purported author of the IIPA statute, Victoria Toensing, seems to think it is a good thing when a reporter ignores warnings against publishing a covert officer's names. Chew on that for a while.
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O V E R S I G H T !!!
Victoria Toensing luvs Republican treason.
emptywheel!
Waxman!
Leaking the lies of Toensing…
Dick Cheney Controls Tim Russert.
Oh my God, EW!
That’s just unbelieveable.
Thanks emptywheel,
you rock!
and prove Toensing is a piece of work, a bitter piece of work.
She shoots, she scores!
Again.
Very Nice EW
I watched V.T. on Friday and was squirming in my chair. I still feel icky when I read about her. There is so much to do and too little time to punish all the perpe-traitors in this administration.
Does Marcy ever rest? I am in awe of her.
Gnome de Plume @ 9
so many crimes, so little time
nicely dissected, fileted, etc.
Well, that and the note of scorn and derision in her tone whenever she pronounces thos 3 letters together.
I got the distinct impression from her description of adding the 5 year limitation, that she has little respect for the Agency.
What confuses me most about the spin around this is the general acceptance that there was ‘no underlying crime’ if no one was charged.
So , if you see a body lying in the street with a knife protruding from it’s back, the death is debatable until someone is charged?
The other glaring omission is the assumption that, if the IIPA does not fit for some reason (provable intent comes to mind) that there is no problem.
Once again, I toss a knife in the air, with no regards as to the consequences. If the result is that body in the street, am I absolved of guilt just because “I didn’t mean it’.
Perhaps the knife just slipped while I was trying to impress my friends with my juggling skills.
Whatever.
More jokes from today’s press briefing with Tony Snow.
Snow is apparently now blaming al Qaeda for bad poll results.
looseheadprop @
8
Isn’t it? EW shows just how Victoria “I wrote the IIPA dammit!” Toensing can talk out of both sides of her mouth at the same damned time.
As a masterpiece of double-talk, it’s right up there with the arguments used to tout Social Security privatization.
Off topic – Kucinich wants people to tell him if it is time to impeach Bush.
Kucinich article and video
[Mod Note; fixed your link]
Are we talking about Mark Weiner, or Tim Wiener?
Great post, emptywheel.
Victoria Toensing is still trying to prove she has any relevance whatsoever in the post-OJ Simpson trial world.
-S
Sick Vicky writes laws and games the loopholes.
She’s a revolving door legal consultant.
Specializing in classified information, covert operations and treason.
.
Marcy-
Amazing post as usual. May I ask a slightly related question? I am preparing a letter and e-mail to Waxman (and bullet points for a phone call) regarding Karl Rove’s security breaches. I remember Christy saying that he had an affirmative responsibility to inform ISOO if he had knowledge of a potential unauthorized disclosure of classified info. Is that correct? I can’t find it in Exec order 12958, but maybe it’s somewhere else. I want to point out that Rove neglected to do this after he talked to Novak about the article, after he received a faxed copy of the article from Hohlt, and after he told Libby about the upcoming article. He had days to alert the ISOO of a potential unauthorized disclosure but chose not to. Waxman didn’t mention this, but I want this info on his mind when he pushes for Karl’s security clearance to be revoked.
BTW – these impressions com from listening to “Progressive” Matt Miller on his “Left Right and Center” podcast.
Essentially, I listen for Ariana’, and to hear Tony Blankley spout the Right line (Robert Sheer consistantly underwhelms me as a moralistic cat’s paw)
But the pain of listening to Miller’s “center” has gotten to be too much.
OT–but not really. Bush’s notion of the Beltway media (and its practices) and its relationship to the Administration:
TJ @ 10
I am in ewe of the rabid lamb.
Remember the George Clooney character in Syriana …Bob Barnes. It seems that Toensing would be all for those that exposed Barnes being exonerated of any criminal act. After all…Barnes was no longer “stationed abroad” when he was sent out on his covert missions.
Toensing seems to think that each and every covert agent that operates from the United States should be open to exposure…that any of the thousands of agents that operate from Langley should be unprotected by the law that she asserts that she authored.
I think that Toensing has actually EXPOSED HERSELF as one of the most radical and dangerous attorneys that exist in this country. She seems to believe that such agents are “fair game” for their names to be made public to enemy nations and terrorists through publication in the media.
And the REPUBLICANS seem to be supportive of her logic?
Just who are the PATRIOTS here?
Mack @ 13
If it’s politically convenient for Republicans, I guess the answer is ‘yes’.
But if a Democrat gives an evasive answer to a non-material question in a case that never makes it to court because there’s no ‘there’ there (you know — “no underlying crime”?), then that of course rates impeachment and removal.
So the circumstances of the case don’t matter … only whether the covert agent is outed.
Nice going, Miss Vickie. Watch out for agents – for the rest of your life.
—
One of my friends watched the beginning of the hearing. She said it was interesting watching Valerie doing the ‘adoring dumb blonde’ act while Davis and Westmoreland were droning through their questions, then going all business as she answered. My friend said it gave some insight into how Valerie may have been so effective as an agent.
Somewhat pertinent here, but especially so in regards to LHP’s awesome post last Saturday, Wayne Madsen (I know, I know) put a post up last Thursday about one Ali Reza Asghari, a former Deputy Defense Minister of Iran whose standing with the powers that be over there has had its ups and downs. Asghari disappeared last December while on an authorized visit to Istanbul and Madsen suggests that he may have been one of Plame’s CIA “assets”. His wife contends that he was renditioned by the USA.
There are a lot of possibilities here, beginning with whether or not there’s anything at all of substance behind Madsen’s piece. If he is in US custody or that of an affiliated country perhaps it wasn’t a “rendition” but an extraction of an exposed asset. (In such a case his wife and family are probably in danger.) But if he was indeed one of Plame’s assets and was grabbed by Iran, in a just world that fact should kick in the punishment of all who were involved in blowing her cover to the full extent of the law, as discussed by LHP. Any FDL reader who is in a position to look in to the facts behind Madsen’s assertions should consider passing whatever he or she finds on to Fitz’s operation and/or Waxman’s.
Madsen doesn’t link to individual posts, so scroll down from the top of his site to the first entry for March 15, which begins “Former Iranian Deputy Defense Minister Ali Reza Asghari may be . . “
alabama @ 17
Oops. Tim. Fixed that one reference to Mark, thanks.
It seems to me that it’s unlikely, if not impossible that Toensing would author a statute and then criticize the vagueness of the most important defining terms without prior knowledge that the statute itself would come under scrutiny…
And one more thing… why is the CIA taking all of this abuse? They are the CIA!!!
O/T – but it’s making me crazy. Iv’e been reading about the possible subponea of turd-blossom and whether or not the prez will “allow” im to testify Can shrub block a subponea?
Please tell us what we don’t know, Mr. President:
So Toensing herself is applauding giving aid and comfort to the enemy. TRAITOR!
Oh, wait… IOKIYAR.
Never mind.
Emptywheel:
Nice post Marcy!!! You show here exactly just how full of it Toensing was in the hearing last Friday (not that takes much doing, she did leave around a lot of ammunition and self inflicted wounds there IMHO) with this comparison, as well as how bogus her latest argument about how the CIA didn’t do enough to protect her covert status by leaning on Novak harder than they were able to legally do was. I am running across this argument more and more frequently recently that it was the CIA’s fault for not telling Novak she was covert or not telling the WH she was covert (like the CIA had any reason to expect/believe that any Administration official would leak the identity of any CIA employee without verifying first that it was not classified) with more intensity. What was the CIA supposed to do? Were they supposed to tell Novak she was covert thereby breaking the law? Were they supposed to assume that their bosses responsible for protecting national security would out a NOC just to try and discredit the criticisms of her husband? Yeah, right.
Of course not that this is news to you, I am just very frustrated at all the self proclaimed “experts” on intelligence and classification issues that show from the very first word they know nothing about the field save for the talking points mailed to them by their political associates. Toensing has done incredible damage to American national security and likely has been making a lot of money off her defence of Libby on all the media sources that gave her a voice. She clearly does not care first for the intelligence community given her amazing ability to be outraged in 1992 over the improper persecution of a CIA station chief because she was female and therefore was a sexist action which she clearly found so offensive she felt it necessary to leak her client’s classified position, yet is more than willing to aid a sexist attempt to brand Plame as no one of consequence despite all evidence to the contrary that she was a NOC both by CIA defintion as well as IIPA definition AND to belittle her and her accomplishments in her profession AND to make her out to be some sort of stereotypical female harpy instead of the patriotic courageous operations officer she was.
Again, nice post Marcy and yet one more nail into the coffin of Toensing’s professional credibility (although by this time the coffin seems made more of nails than wood given the amount already pounded in).
More Tony Snow in one of his favorite shtiks, showing how those who disagree with Bush actually agree with him.
You see the American people are a lot like children. They know they need to take their medicine even if they don’t like it. So they don’t like war because it’s icky but they like its results.
Do people still use straitjackets? And if so, why isn’t Tony Snow wearing one?
P J Evans @ 26
That was impression shared by many who attended the hearing. You likely don’t find spies with Valerie’s combination of intelligence, looks, and listening ability very often.
Though click through to the third link on Brookner–it does look like she was also very beautiful, in her youth.
can someone contact the actual authors of the statute and ask them toenails involvement?
I know larry johnson reports they said her interperatation is incorrect but I want to see what they think of her claiming party to the law itself
Mack @ 23
I saw it on ewe-toob
I just want to say it again: you guys rock. This Wiener guy and the threat to prosecute him criminally was something that really stuck out for me, and I asked about it in one of the threads following the hearing. Well, here it is the next Monday and there’s a full report on the story and how it actually undermines Toensing’s credibility. What took you guys so long?
Way to go!
so she should just keep talking (we can hold our ears). remember what happened when George did that with privatization?
TJ @ 10
Does Marcy ever get to go to work?
She`s doing this gig for America, for her own blog and for FDL. I sure hope she gets some billable hours soon.
Thanks, Marcy! We love you.
…Abunocchio will tsing…
Toensing is one disgusting excuse for a human being.
What I notice about Toensing’s long, rambling and mostly incoherent response to Davis is that she never came close to answering his very simply question: what should the CIA do to protect an agent when someone is trying to expose that agent?
At most, we have an implicit answer that says, “well, if they’re trying to silence a whistleblower, then then should do nothing and let the exposure occur.” But since Plame was not a case of a CIA whistleblower revealing CIA misdeeds, we still have no idea from this answer what Toensing thinks CIA should have done in Plame’s case.
Thanks EW for exposing this traitor.
here’s another one in his own words:
linky
Our race-savvy President, quite knowledgeable about foreign affairs and international cultures:
*groan* as always. Punaise – question – how do you pronounce your name? When I see it, my reading voice says Pew -nace, but it has finally occurred to me that it might be Pun-ace. I know, I am kinda slow sometimes.
justintime @ 19
That’s what’s so disturbing, it isn’t about protecting America’s covert/classified assets. It’s about gaming the loopholes.
Toensing said in her testimony that the CIA made no effort to stop Novak from exposing Plame. My recollection is that a CIA staffer did actually urge Novak not to mention her name. Unfortunately he was hampered by a Catch-22: he could not tell Novak that she was covert because such confirmation would in itself been a violation of the secrets classification rules.
um, i know i’m going to take flak for this, but it needs be said: she’s pretty hot right now, too.
There’s a reason it’s called SOTU, Mr. President:
Looking at Toensing’s testimony, I think it’s easy to surmise that Fitzgerald decided it was useless to try to prosecute anybody under IIPA. It’s crap law written by a crap litigator, and an object lesson in the hazards of passing laws that are meant to be nothing but a feel-good, politically useful title with nothing but packing foam underneath. Did Fitzgerald look at the statute and think, Do I want to fight against an op-ed campaign led by the partisan clown who wrote this misguided lump of crap and try to get a conviction under this misguided it? Better to stick to perjury. And I think the best riposte to Toensing would to get some competent legislators to write a new law that protects covert operatives instead of providing Toensing with lifetime employment as a second rate lawyer picking apart her own legislation.
Marcy-
Re: my question @20- is that obligation listed in Exec order 13292?
And then he goes to tsing tsing?
Brookner? Yes, she is. I’m guessing she’s about 10 years older than Valerie (and both look about 8 years younger than they must be).
In any case, the two women have curiously parallel roles, around the evil Toensing (who was clearly never beautiful). I do intend to ask some folks about Brookner, but I wanted to get this out as is, for now…
ChimpCo & friends have been slicing their rationales into manageable chunks. Every time a crime or political embarrassment pops up, they have to slice the parts thinner & thinner.
Marcy proves in Anatomy of Deceit, and on blog pages that the slices are so thin that translucent is becoming transparent.
Keep up the great analysis!
Looking at Toensing’s testimony, I think it’s easy to surmise that Fitzgerald decided it was useless to try to prosecute anybody under IIPA. It’s crap law written by a crap litigator, and an object lesson in the hazards of passing laws that are meant to be nothing but a feel-good, politically useful title with nothing but packing foam underneath. Did Fitzgerald look at the statute and think, Do I want to fight against an op-ed campaign led by the partisan clown who wrote this misguided lump of crap and try to get a conviction under it? Better to stick to perjury. And I think the best riposte to Toensing would to get some competent legislators to write a new law that protects covert operatives instead of providing Toensing with lifetime employment as a second rate lawyer picking apart her own legislation.
Bush on depth and expansion in the Middle East:
more seriously, marcy’s post is exactly why the toobz are indispensable for journalism today. to toensing, and official washington, friday was a one-day story — that’s it. maybe it went badly, or well (and the absence of msm coverage suggest the latter), but to the beltway it’s OVER.
not so out here in the larger nation, and online, where one such as marcy can follow the dizzying doublespeak and show toensing for what she is.
i hope waxman makes good his vow to check out what toensing said. time to start taking names and collecting pelts.
Peter Lee @ 51
I think Fitz didn’t go after IIPA for four reasons. 1) He needed to clarify that Cheney–and not Russert–was the source of Scooter’s info (and therefore Scooter found it out through classified channels), 2) He needed to prove that David Shedd (who, btw, was in the WH at the time) was Cheney’s source, and I’m not sure he ever did that, and 3) He needed to find a charge that wouldn’t be shot down with greymail, and 4) His proof that Libby knew Plame was covert–which existent–was circumstantial.
If CHeney or Rove or Libby ever decided they wanted to start telling the truth, however, things might get interesting.
Toensing helpfully points out that the IIPA–which she had been describing as a statute crafted with careful, accurate language–uses a misleading term, “covert agent” for arguably the most important term in the statute.
This follows up on her account in her opening statement, and it’s at once hilarious and very telling. It’s on p. 4 mainly of her statement, and it’s hilarious because she tries to blame the media for getting confused before suggesting that the IIPA addressed the difficulty by simplyfing and using the term in a confusing way. But it’s also telling because I think what’s she’s trying to do is to evade the point that when the statute does distinguish between an officer and an agent, it talks about an agent (who is effectively a source or informant, not an employee), the agent has to be residing and acting overseas to be covered (and maybe within five years); whereas an officer or employee has to have served overseas within five years. The point is that this might suggest that the legislation is distinguishing serving overseas from residing overseas, precisely the reading Toensing is set against. (This is something that p. lukasiak pointed out over at JOM this weekend.) Instead, though, Toensing appears to twist the statute and its legislative history by saying on p. 5: “Notably, the legislation limited coverage of U.S. citizen informants or sources (agents) also to situations where they ‘reside and act outside the United States.’”
Like the rest of the legislative history she cites, it is not convincing evidence of her reading of the definition of the “serve overseas” part of the IIPA, and tends in fact to undermine her interpretation.
I know this isn’t the main point of this post, but I couldn’t resist.
i also think Toensing’s acknowledgment that the statute doesn’t map very easily at all with the reality of what’s the case at the Agency makes sense of the fact – much seized on and misused by the right this weekend – that Plame explained that no one at the CIA sat her down and explained that under the goofy, technical, even bizarre definition of covert agent in the statute, she was a covert agent, or covert under the statute.
I’m sure she was just told, you’re covert, you’re under cover, your status is classified.
Is it just me or does Sessions sound a little sloshed there on the Senate floor?
Toestink is a pathetic excuse for a woman. I’m convinced she is Novakula’s secret bride (read mistress). Yuk!
Elliott @ 61
No, because I have the mute turned on. I was wondering when the gentleman’s time would expire.
smapdi @ 63
It can’t be soon enough for me !
As long as the neocons are in power, irony will be an inexhaustible resource. Nice article, emptywheel.
Okay, it is 4:15PM – where the hell is that document dump?
e’wheel
you’ve just did some great heavy lifting here – hoisting toensing on her own petard.
her misleading and dishonest characterization of plame as “not covert”, a claim that she herself has bruited widely,
and which proved convenient fodder for the arguments of other right-wing propagandists writing about the plame-wilson matter
has been intolerable.
and now we find she has two sets of “principles” which allow her to walk on whichever side of the fence suits her purposes.
It’s not just you, Elliott– spiked Koolaid courtesy of the WH and Abu.
He just said that the purge was not a “holocaust of US attorneys.”
ick.
He’s no gentleman, smapdi.
emptywheel @ 59
and who was david shedd’s source?
P J Evans @ 26
I was thinking the same thing. I was thinking: “Whatever this woman did for the CIA, she musta been damn good!”
Marcy-
Heidi @
20
Gnome de Plume @ 46
well its a French word (means thumbtack, among other things) so something like “pew-nezz” where pew is what you sit on in church. accent on second syllable. thanks for asking!
I don’t see how Toensing could possible have written IIPA. IIPA was introduced to congress in 1981 (House-Jan, Senate-Feb) Wouldn’t this mean to most thinking people that it was written in 1980?
If you check Toensings resume, she lived and worked for the justice dept in Detroit in 1980 and didn’t move to DC until 1981. So, if the bill was written in 1980 how in the hell could she be an author?
She may very well have worked on amendments and/or help get the bill through congress, but I don’t see how she would possibly be an “author.” And BTW it was the House bill that finally passed, not the Senate bill.
I’ve obsessed about this for a couple of years now. Does my reasoning seem off to anyone?
selise @ 69
David Shedd used to work with Plame. He had firsthand knowledge–far beyond believing “she sent Joe to Niger.”
Wil @ 30
Executive Privledge–doesn’t mean he will win
punaise @ 72
well its a French word (means thumbtack, among other things) so something like “pew-nezz” where pew is what you sit on in church. accent on second syllable. thanks for asking!
I thought it was an amino acid that had something to do with puns.
As for sessions, I was being uber polite. Wouldnt want to get the non-serious tag.
I’m with you on 3) and 4), but I’m skeptical of 1) and 2). 1) doesn’t really make sense: he hasn’t clarified it for the purposes of the investigation now any more than he had it before. He’s just convinced a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that Libby heard it from official channels first. And anyway, Fitzgerald is done with Libby unless he gets new information; no clarification apart from new information would change that.
As for 2), what makes you think the very brief questioning about Shedd at the end of the grand jury testimony was anything more than just sort of covering his bases? Is there any indication that Fitzgerald ever really believed that about Shedd – and we can’t count the early reports about Agency officers detailed to NSC as one possible way word got to the White House as evidence here, I don’t think, since those would just be what flagged the issue, not anything that gave substance to a supposition. Moreover, I tend to suspect that that initial suspicion was just that, a suspicion told to reporters by those familiar with but unfriendly to Shedd. Not based on any knowledge of his actions or even his knowledge whatsoever.
Who is going to be the first to have Nick Kristoff on record about his breakfast with Plame? Hume and Krystal carried on about how she “outed” herself to Kristoff even though she testified under oath that she was only there as Mrs. Wilson and did not join the conversation. Kristoff should be willing to answer that don’t you think?
Crap, I was afraid of that. Thanks
They read a statement from the Director of the CIA that flat out stated that Valerie was covert. Anything out of Vikkies mouth to the contrary should be met with, STFU and STFD.
emptywheel @ 75
oh, right… thank you for refreshing my memory!
angie @ 68
I can’t help it, whenever I see him, I wonder how many swirlies he’s suffered.
selise @ 69
Like this, maybe...
Lieberman is at it again.
Just watch the C&L clip below. It is nasty.
You’ll seem him flirt with a move to the Republican party.
You’ll see him discuss the possibility that he may endorse a Republican candidate for President in 2008.
And you’ll see him use the famous “Friedman Unit”.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/…..can-in-08/
Hey Marcy—
Ygm.
Egregious is always very serious. :)
I found another Plameologist today who didn’t know about FDL (but does now!). He is an American citizen originally from India and he picked my brain over lunch. It’s really a shame I didn’t know he was one of us during the Libby trial but I expect him to come to FDL to catch up from now on.
There are more out there. We just have to find them and show them the way.
I think Fitz didn’t go after IIPA for four reasons. 1) He needed to clarify that Cheney–and not Russert–was the source of Scooter’s info (and therefore Scooter found it out through classified channels), 2) He needed to prove that David Shedd (who, btw, was in the WH at the time) was Cheney’s source, and I’m not sure he ever did that, and 3) He needed to find a charge that wouldn’t be shot down with greymail, and 4) His proof that Libby knew Plame was covert–which existent–was circumstantial.
If CHeney or Rove or Libby ever decided they wanted to start telling the truth, however, things might get interesting.
I’m with you on 3) and 4), but I’m skeptical of 1) and 2). 1) doesn’t really make sense: he hasn’t clarified it for the purposes of the investigation now any more than he had it before. He’s just convinced a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that Libby heard it from official channels first. And anyway, Fitzgerald is done with Libby unless he gets new information; no clarification apart from new information would change that.
As for 2), what makes you think the very brief questioning about Shedd at the end of the grand jury testimony was anything more than just sort of covering his bases? Is there any indication that Fitzgerald ever really believed that about Shedd – and we can’t count the early reports about Agency officers detailed to NSC as one possible way word got to the White House as evidence here, I don’t think, since those would just be what flagged the issue, not anything that gave substance to a supposition. Moreover, I tend to suspect that that initial suspicion was just that, a suspicion told to reporters by those familiar with but unfriendly to Shedd. Not based on any knowledge of his actions or even his knowledge whatsoever.
One of the reason I believe the Shedd thing is because Libby is clearly lying when he attributes it to Tenet. THere is a friendly source there, they’re trying to hide it. And remember–that question was in March, after the bulk of the investigation, pre-journalist, was done.
Finally, if the date of the Cheney informing Libby note is accurate (I’m completely agnostic on that), then it would put it within days of when Bush said he was interested. The interest in further research came from the WH, you see. And there are suggestions that COndi was involved/aware later in the process.
Juck Foe and the McHorse he road in on.
my contempt for Joe Lieberman will never subside.
*xyz @ 84
LOL! Someone should walk up to him and say, “Have you seen Domenici? His lawyers were looking for him.”
Marcy: Great piece. Thanks again.
BTW, I’m also interested in your thoughts on Heidi’s question (@ 20 &72) when you have a chance…
Heidi @ 71
Heidi,
I’m not ignoring you. I’m cleaning my desk, and as a result seem to have misplaced the goldmine document that has your answers. So I’m just going to keep cleaning away in hopes I find it.
Driveby — The logic structure of her statements is weird — she sometimes argues for inclusion AND ALSO exclusion at one and the same time. (”Well, if ‘leak’ is not defined to my liking in this itty bitty statute, then it’s too tiny to exist UNLESS it’s over there in that thingamajiggity UNLESS it’s in some more obscure and hard-to-locate spot that only I, in all my greatness, happen to know about …”)
Keep the light on this harpie, please! She’s all sophistry; no coherent logic.
Elliott @ 61
Ya mean Henry Gibson?
readerOfTeaLeaves @ 92
There is no there there.
Kewalo @ 73
Oh, maybe she will want to correct that in the record then
readerOfTeaLeaves @ 92
Funny. I was explaining her to someone in DC last week. He used precisely the same term: “Oh, is she the sophist.”
*xyz @ 95
None that I can decipher.
Kewalo @ 73
Actually, I think she worked on the conference bill
Forgive me if I am a bit slow on the uptake, but do I understand this correctly?
In the quote, Toensing clearly confirms that Valerie was a covert officer. But her rationale for why Ms. Plame was not “covert under the statute” (IIPA) is that the statute applies only to “covert agents“, not “covert officers”.
Just hair-splitting about the wording of the statute, spun via the fools in the media into a doubt that Ms. Plame was actually covert. Bastards.
She’s cuddling up to Barry for the K-Street cred?
Marcy-
You’re a sweetie and I can’t thank you enough.
Th @ 78
Sure, but it’s just another bright shiny object. If the wingnuts don’t believe her when she says he wasn’t told she was CIA, they’re not going to believe him if he says the same thing. If the statement of the only people who were actually present conflicts with what they “know” to be true, those people must be lying. It’s a waste of time.
hugh
-snip-Do people still use straitjackets? And if so, why isn’t Tony Snow wearing one?
Mendacity. For obvious reasons, that’s the two dollar word that comes to mind in all of this.
Great work as always.
What I’m wondering about in this context is the current state of the CIA, the FBI, and the Justice Department, just to name a few. The more the US Attorney scandal unfolds, the more obvious it becomes that the level of politicization isn’t just significant, it’s off the charts. As we get to know characters like Iglesias and Lam all too well, the clearer it becomes that they’re… well let’s just say they’re not exactly our kind of folks. So that puts us in the position of being happy that they actually had the shred of decency to want to do their jobs.
The FBI seems to be emerging as the next big mess.
But in the context of unbridled mendacity, let’s look at the recent history of the CIA, where, as they say, the twain shall meet. Cheney was obviously not real happy with George Tenet running the CIA; hence the repeated drives over to Langley just to check up on things. The neocon and wingnut crew believed that there was a liberal cabal within the CIA; that’s one of their continuing talking points about Plame supposedly sending Wilson to Niger.
So Tenet gets the Heckuva Job Medal of Freedom and Porter Goss goes to run the CIA. From all accounts this was a disaster of epic proportions, even by Bush administration standards. It ultimately came undone because Carole Lam’s (reluctant, relatively slow) investigation of Duke Cunningham finally got around to Brent Wilkes and Dusty Foggo, Goss’ #3. And so Goss was gone.
But the politicization of the CIA under Goss appears to have been extreme. Even extremely extreme, as in a joke, or intolerable.
Sound familiar? I’d love to see somebody who knows more about this lay it out in some detail, but if you think the Justice Department took a political hit, the CIA is probably worse.
Is Toensing Novak’s personal lawyer? Did she counsel him in his decision to release Valerie’s name? Anybody know?
Do we know who leaked Brookner’s CIA status to Weiner? ‘Cause if we don’t, based on this quote it sounds transparently obvious that Toensing did it, which makes this piece of testimony self-serving at a whole new level.
Apologies, this is off-topic, but worth mentioning for those who haven’t heard of it.
Last night the CBC Newsworld program The Passionate Eye ran the full movie The Ground Truth
instead of a regular news segment. It won a number of awards at the Sundance Film Festival,
and is a harrowing account of the casualties accumulating in the War on Terror in Iraq and
Afganistan. For those of you who haven’t heard of, or seen this movie, its worth watching.
Not that there aren’t horrors enough to motivate opposition to this war, but knowing this
kind of harm is occurring, is a grim reminder of what has been done, especially to the troops,
and provides a stirring reminder of the ‘troop support’ that is required now.
For the record, sophist, as a pejorative term, is a more recent usage, and I stand by my moniker
as meaning ‘one who pursues wisdom’, rather than ‘one who practices rhetorical abuse in the
interest of ambition’.
Sadly its one more example of the upside down modern world that sophism has come to mean
dishonest argument.
Tortoise @ 99
No.
Her “arguments” about why Plame is not covert show up elsewhere–they amount to claims that the CIA did not do enough to protect her identity, based on alleged evidence that she can’t tell Waxman about.
Here’s she’s just awkwardly acknowleding that the language used in the statute is wrong. But really, it was carefully worded, honestly it was.
emptywheel @ 59
I personally think that Fitz was actually quite close to satisfying the requirements of the IAPA…he COULD show that Plame was Covert, he could show that the individuals were involved in INTENTIONAL leaks.
What he couldn’t demonstrate was whether there was conspiracy or fore-knowledge of Plame’s COVERT STATUS. That was the result of statements (probably false) made by those that testified before the Grand Jury.
The documents that exist certain suggest that they were cognizant of her classified status…why else would Rove say to Cooper “I’ve already said too much. Wait until it’s been declassified.” Why would Libby want to attribute his leak to a “former Congressional staffer” rather than to WH sources if the material at issue was the National Intelligence Estimate that was going to soon be fully declassified anyways? It simply makes no sense.
All the documents in the trial indicated that the materials were known to be Top Secret and even carried an ultra-secret “Covert Operations” header- so secret that it was, itself, redacted from the documents presented at the Libby trial.
looseheadprop @ 99
Would that make her an “suthor?”
More Toensing memories here:
Enter the Secretive Victoria
couldn’t the House then impeach Rove (who, after all, betrayed a CIA agent), thereby removing said protection of Executive Privelege? We have evidence (uncontroverted testimony) that Rove violated the terms of his top secret clearance, don’t we?
Talk about your multitasking, I just got off the phone with Larry Kissell, NC-08.
He is running for Congress for ‘08, and said he was very grateful for all the support from people in his last election, where he came within 300 votes of winning against the incumbent.
Yay Kissell NC-08 in ‘08!!
Can we talk about hair color?
That shade of red is very popular at my neighborhood NW Chicago polish deli.
I have seldom seen it outside of the NW Side.
…
Sadly, XOX Salon’s Gallery is not yet active
Biodun @ 22
we need the other glove. we are actively lookin’ fer it.
Here’s the email I sent Friday. I know I should have faxed it, and I’ll try to do it in the future.
Chairmain Waxman,
There are not enough words to express my gratitude and esteem. You and your fellow Democratic committee members were brilliant at Friday’s hearing regarding the unauthorized release of classified information. There is still much work to be done to fix the situation, but for the first time in six years I have hope that the work will be done.
I laud your attention to the larger issue. While the damage to Mrs. Wilson personally was unforgivable, the damage to our country is incalculable. Intelligence networks were irreparably damaged in the area posing the biggest immediate threat to our nation, nuclear counterproliferation.
Congressman Davis’ assertions were apalling. I could spend pages refuting every one of his statements, but I’m sure he would ignore it. Still, I would be grateful if you would give a copy of this message to him.
Finally, having read the passages from the IIPA that Victoria Toensing ignored, I see that it only requires that a person serves outside the country. It does not require residence or out of country assignment. I respectfully request that you get a statement from the CIA saying that Mrs. Wilson was covert under the terms of the IIPA. We need to stop the people clouding the real issue of disclosure of classified information under the fog of misinterpretation of the IIPA.
Thank you for making a difference.
zhiv @ 104
Goss openly said that the CIA wasn’t politicized enough, and that the purpose of intelligence gathering was to “support administration policies.” A lot of seasoned professionals have left, but I think even more than with the generals, intelligence folks have been stuck between staying and trying to make the damage less bad, or leaving and knowing that they’re likely to be replaced by people who will knuckle under. Bad stuff.
David Corn on Toensing’s statement that he was the first to expose Plame as a covert agent:
David Corn, the Nation
He also explains the confusion over the term “covert agent” which Toensing apparently exploited.
egregious @ 113
Money out of my pocket to Kissell was an excellent downstream investment. Keep passing the word, egregious.
TiredFed @ 112
They could, but the Senate would have to convict, and I doubt our party-before-country Republicans would go along. In any case, I suspect the privilege claim applies to the testimony, not the office. That is, the claim would be that the Executive Branch is allowed to keep the information Rove knows about its operations away from Congress, not whether Rove is immune from being called to testify based on his position. But I don’t know for sure.
looseheadprop @ 93
yes! that’s who he looks like! Thanks for the jog.
(ps you rock!)
On a previous thread, someone was talking about Bajagua and wonderign what might have been going on last fall. A couple of links:
…”nothing is typical about this project.”
and
The Politics of Contracting: Bajagua’s No-Bid Deal (scroll down for the table of contents, with names)
XYZ @84:
As a nutmegger who has been nauseated by this little man of no character I am getting a twisted feeling that LIEberman may be a consideration for the next attorney general. After all, he was our CT Attorney General before he ran for his senate seat. He’d be perfect for the job, sucking up as he does to the right wing freaks, with kisses for Shrub.
Victoria Toensing, seems to think it is a good thing…but only so long as a Republican Administration is in power.
egregious @ 114
I just got an appeal from Charlie Brown, who is weighing another run at corrupt-to-the-gills John Doolittle in CA-04. http://www.charliebrownforcongress.org
David Corn on Toensing.
http://www.davidcorn.com/
Off topic again…
There is a lot of bashing about VT’s appearance. While I understand the blogosphere is full of snark, her appearance is the least of our problems. Let’s hit her with issues instead of schoolyard taunts.
And it would make her criminally complicit…under the IAPA. So, of course, she would be adament that the law allows leaking an agents identity.
But there is one other distinction that Vickie seems to ignore. An agent can reveal her own relationship to others, as long as it is necessary for their work, or if it doesn’t serve to expose OTHER agents or operations.
That’s also in the IAPA. So Vickie’s client COULD tell Toensing…and could even tell Weiner, if she had done so in a manner that protected other agents/operations.
But Plame didn’t voluntarily expose herself…it’s criminal for others to do so.
And if Plame HAD (to, say Kristoff) it would still have been allowable if done so in a manner that protected her covert identity and others. If she had demanded from Kristoff absolutely confidentiality and his promise not to reveal the information (which he never has…except after the Novak exposure and the CIA “clearance” of the basic element of her employment).
Quite simply…IF PLAME HAD told Kristoff that she worked at the CIA (and there is no evidence that she did) it would be legal under the IAPA.
who is this victoria? Is every former staffer on the Senate Intelligence Committee of the lack of quality of Tenet, Toensing. I really fail to understand why Tenet and Toensing are allowed to strut. Do you remember it was Tenet who blamed the “accidental” bombing of the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade on an out of date tourist street map embedded in the CIA data bank. It was a bright green building standing out. This is the same slam dunk stooge who was kissing the ass of Bush. It is just disgusting that we have these stooges and bimbos in positions of importance. Remember who appointed Tenet.
On the Joe LIEberman prospect of replacing AbuGonzo as AG – The Governor of CT then appoints his replacement. That would be a Rethug, since the governor is an R. Does that person then get what is left of the six year term, or is there an election sooner because of the vacancy?
new thread from Jane.
angie @ 131
Which is here.
Aw shucks.
Would that be Elliot as in Ness?
Isn’t it true that when a person speaks out in public (like on TV) about the information that the Congressional investigation wants to ask him about under oath, they weaken the claim of executive privilege. (Not to mention the fact that KKKarl’s name is all over the evidentiary e-mails, which also weakens the claim of Executive Privilege, if it is asserted at all.)
What I really wanted to mention is that I saw Dana Priest asked if she was worried about being prosecuted for publishing classified information, she replied that no law makes it illegal for a reporter to publish classified information. It is illegal for the person that gave her the information to tell it to her. If she didn’t have to worry about her source, she would have no fear of jail or reprisal at all.
That’s what I’m thinking. So does this mean that the Oversight or even Intelligence committees might eventually get around to having hearings about this? Remember, Plame’s testimony is about political use of faulty intelligence, which led to outing a covert agent. In the hearing they reminded all of us of Cheney’s repeated CIA visits and she even had a chance to talk about the “chilling effect” and intimidating nature of her treatment.
People/MSM are finally starting to focus on Lam and May 10. The first pass at it was the LATimes report that the investigation was going after Rep. Lewis, but that was the wrong path: I believe that in the same week the Foggo and Goss dominoes were falling. (How do they not see this/mention it when it’s right there?)
The case against Foggo and Wilkes will bring it to the fore (although there’s a notable lack of updates on this–who replaced Lam? what’s the next step?), but that’s “just” corruption within the CIA and Pentagon. Politicization is the bigger, perhaps more important issue. Unlike Gonzalez and Sampson, Goss and Foggo (like Harriet Miers) are already gone.
There have to be tons of links on this story, the CIA purge, for lack of a better term. Some of the CIA people have to be watching the USA scandal and seeing the same dynamic. I guess my overall point is that as politicization is gaining traction and attention, it would be great to put politicization into a larger context.
left dc in 72 @
129
Ummm, I think it was Clinton who appointed Tenet, wasn’t it?
You know, I don’t think we have the whole story about what Tenet did or didn’t do. Maybe he truly was an asskisser par excellance. Or maybe the WH made up a lot of the stuff about ’slam dunks’. Something tells me that he did not convince them that he was a ‘Loyal Bushie’ and they were probably glad that he resigned because he wasn’t taking the hint.
We may never know until this set of Republicans is out of office and the true story can be told.
And there are suggestions that COndi was involved/aware later in the process.
emptywheel
What are the indications other than the note where Libby reports Hadley reporting that Rice is comfortable? And isn’t that more likely evidence that the NIE thing is bs – as the conversation appears to be about declassifying the NIE, which Tenet had said had not yet happened at CIA, and then Hadley reports that Rice says that the president is comfortable, that is, apparently, comfortable with the CIA declassifying the NIE, which would be a little weird since the president had already declassified it, or at least significant portions of it. But maybe they were all hiding it from Tenet, including the president; and maybe he was hiding it from Rice too. Whatever.
By the way, here’s a delightful item from Victoria Toensing, circa October 2005, courtesy of Tom Maguire:
So why didn’t Patrick Fitzgerald, the special counsel investigating the “leak,” close up shop long ago?
One possible answer is that someone lied about a material fact when testifying before the grand jury or obstructed justice in some other way. If that is the case, the prosecutor should indict.
I can’t help but wonder where Icki Toe found a color blind hairdresser.
Has there been any followup on the mysterious juror who showed up at the hearing last Friday? And any Toensing angle?
It is ever so refreshing to see the knowledge and research history exhibited on this site daily, both in the posts and the comments. In spite of my hope to see regime change as soon as possible in the executive branch, I harbor hopes that oversight might extend into this presidency into the rather distant future. Any thoughts on what accountability can be brought to bear by Congress (my perhaps idiosyncratic capitalization is deliberate in all of this) on the executive once it is out of office?
if you imply so mush as a doubt about the incompetence of Tenet, remember he was the guy who sat behind Powell at the UN speech when that bs was issued. Actually it seems that Tenet was more comfortable with Bush than with Clinton. I suppose Clinton could be considered smarter than Bush in some ways. Tenet is out with Cheney because Tenet made the criminal referral in the Libby (then only a disclosure issue) case to DOJ (probably thinking that was the best way to cover his ass), but well before Tenet had any sense the WH was involved. Do you know that Tenet is reported to have driven to the WH every business morning to brief Bush. The amount of waste of time, ass kissing and incompetence by this guy is just beyond cavil.
Victoria T. has no conscience, like the Neocon kabal, they just don’t care, as long as they win… At any cost.
How can any employee of the CIA, the ones who are serving your country, and there surely are some, ever trust this administration and their NeoCon buddies???
Something tells me that Madame Plame/Wilson must have been one of the best out there. The disservice to your country by Bushco can only be construed as Treason.
Jeff @ 137
Yes, that’s one of the things that makes me think Condi–and Bush–were more aware of this than we make out.
Remember, of course, the Novak claim (in his column) that there were calls back and forth from AF1. This Condi mention is about teh only sign of that. While Fitz strongly implied that, if Ari had made a proffer, it wouldn’t have anything to do with Libby (making it likely it related to someone on AF1), there’s really no other evidence of discussions back and forth from DC to Africa.
Marcy, you know I love you, BUT… pairing the phrase “drunken sexual temptress” and the name Victoria Toensing in the same post just made me throw up in my mouth.
sophist @107
i really like how you use the english language
left dc in 72 @
141
Maybe, maybe not. We’ve only had part of the story. How you go from running around with your hair on fire pre 9/11 to selling out in front of the UN is anyone’s guess. What Powell and Tenet did at the UN damaged their credibility enormously but that doesn’t mean they were team players or that statements attributed to them are true. We just have no way of knowing. We see through a glass darkly right now. Someday, the events in question may look completely different.
I remember Condi’s appearances on the talkingheads shows the Sunday after Novak’s column when she was trying to do damage control. Someone said she looked like she was having an “Oh, Shit!” moment. She did look very uncomfortable and I thought for sure she was involved somehow.
portia.vz @ 147
And while he can’t be trusted, Armitage certainly blamed COndi for the 16 words.
Go back and read Tenet’s statements about bombing the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade. Either the Chinese had radar on their roof aiding the Serbs in shooting down the US Stealth bomber and the bombing was intentional or Tenet is a complete fool with no spotters. What Tenet did pre 9/11 was hardly pulling his hair out or shouting alarms. HE NEVER STARTED THE ARABIC LANGUAGE RECRUITING AND TRAINING PROGRAMS THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN STARTED UNDER THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION AT THE CIA. HIS BIN LADEN DESK CONSISTED OF ONE PERSON, IF YOU RECALL. THE GUY IS HORRIFIC, THE BANALITY OF EVIL IF YOU WILL.
I’m sitting here wondering why Novak had that on-air fit on CNN with Carville if Armitage (who Novak is happy to disparage today) was who was being protected.
I’m also confused about the “Flame” story, I first heard of Valerie as “Flame” on NPR. Did Novak change the spelling in his article, after someone reviewed it?
TJ @
127
Snark is like salt: a little flavors the food, a lot spoils the taste. Restraint is the best policy.
Bob in HI
Heidi @ 20,
if you go back and look at looseheadprop’s 3/17 essay on INSTA-DE-CLASSIFICATION maybe it will help answer your questions …
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…../#comments
left dc in 72 @
149
Remember the book Tenet is writing? Seems that he’s about 98% done with it, months ago. Apparently what’s holding it up is that he’s not sure how to spin his relationship with key figures. For example, there is a little distance between defending himself against Bushco, and a frontal attack on Bushco. Tenet knows where all the bodies are buried, and is trying to figure out how to best use that knowledge, because this book will probably shape the rest of his life, not to mention his legacy. But if he lets it all hang out too soon, then he becomes a material witness, and he probably doesn’t want that.
Bob in HI
Remember, of course, the Novak claim (in his column) that there were calls back and forth from AF1. This Condi mention is about teh only sign of that.
Messages, to be exact. And there is certainly one other piece of correspondence, and almost certainly another, that fit the bill as well. First, and most certainly, the fax from Grossman to Powell of the INR memo and who knows what else; Armitage probably recounted the story to Novak too. Second, the briefing book Rice got in preparation for the Sunday talkshows, which almost certainly contained lots of information on Wilson’s mission. I’m sure there were other things as well.
Victoria Toensing…She-Wolf of the SS!!!
I believe I saw this in a double-feature, with Vicky starring in a feature opposite her SS sister, Ilsa.
VT is just another piece of moisture in Bush’s fog of war.
Her argument about Plame’s covert status was simply an out right LIE, no other words for it. She only droned on about requirements of the law under part B, deliberately ignoring part A and of course that tricky word OR in between them. To add to all of that her tone was smarmy and disrespectful of the importance of the hearing. I hope they do check on her inability to speak the truth under oath, add it to the record and then slap her with a perjury charge.
She keeps saying “under the statute” whenever Waxman was asking her what Hayden was saying about Plame’s covert status, WTF is that all about? Does she claim to have more authority than the CIA Director as to one’s covert status?
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..cas-spies/
Sorry I posted the above before I saw this link, there’s just SOOO much to read this week, isn’t there?
Anyhoo, the question still bears asking: Do these guys intend on legally challenging their own CIA Director?