
Dear Speaker Pelosi,
You have recently taken on a new and historic role as the first woman speaker of the United States House of Representatives. Please allow me to add my congratulations to the many others you have received.
I am sure that in preparation for your new role you have probably studied the actions of your predecessors to understand the powers and prerogatives of your office. However, you may not yet be fully sensitized to some of the restrictions and new ethical burdens placed upon you, in part because these particular burdens have come into play so rarely in our country’s history.
What I am referring to is the infrequent but very important role the House plays as the sole authorized prosecutorial body in the case of Presidential impeachment. I have seen it reported in the press that you have publicly stated that “impeachment is off the table.” As a former prosecutor of public corruption and fraud against the government cases, this statement is deeply, deeply disturbing to me. Predetermining the outcome of a criminal investigation prior to the completion of that investigation and the uncovering of all the facts, is one of the very worst abuses of prosecutorial discretion and a grievous breach of the canons of ethics for prosecutors.
When he was NY State Attorney General, Elliot Spitzer was oft heard to remark that “as a prosecutor, you must follow the facts and the law where ever they may lead you, even if it somewhere you wish you did not have to go.” His was a correct statement of the standard that all prosecutors, even intermittent prosecutorial entities like the U.S. House of Representatives, must follow.
You have only to look at the outrage and calls for resignation or firing of Alberto Gonzales from his post as US Attorney General for attempting to influence the outcomes of investigations through manipulation of the hiring and firing of United States Attorneys to appreciate the inappropriateness of announcing an outright pre-determination of the charging decision. In no way do I mean to suggest that you have made your statements in bad faith, I realize that the infrequency with which the House finds itself in the role of a prosecutorial entity makes it unlikely that the ethical strictures placed upon a prosecutorial entity will be a regular part of Congressional culture. This is an unfamiliar role for you.
Recent events, including the information that was revealed in the course of the trial in U.S. v. Libby, have opened the possibility that there may have been violations of the Espionage Act either in the release of the classified information regarding the identity of Valerie Plame Wilson and/or the release of the National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) to reporter Woodward, Sanger and Miller. Depending on the particular violation under the Espionage Act, statutory penalties range all the way to life imprisonment. This is an extremely serious crime.
During the press conference announcing the indictment of Mr. Libby, Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald indicated that the Espionage Act was one of the potential crimes he was investigating, and investigation stalled by the obstruction of justice committed by Mr. Libby:
QUESTION: … it's a little hazy I think for many of us — you say that Valerie Plame's identity was classified, but you're making no statement as to whether she was covert. Was the leaking of her identity in and of itself a crime?
FITZGERALD: …And all I'll say is that if national defense information which is involved because her affiliation with the CIA, whether or not she was covert, was classified, if that was intentionally transmitted, that would violate the statute known as Section 793, which is the Espionage Act….So there are people who should argue that you should never use that statute because it would become like the Official Secrets Act. I don't buy that theory… [emphasis added]
In the case of the decision to disclose the classified information that was Ms. Wilson’s covert status there are at least two possible perpetrators, Mr. Libby and Vice President Cheney, and impliedly a third in President Bush. In the decision to disclose the NIE to Woodward, Sanger and Miller, it has been alleged and Mr. Libby’s lawyers argued at trial that only three people in the world knew that the NIE had been declassified: the President, the Vice-President and Mr. Libby. However, no contemporaneous record of such declassification has ever made its way into the public record.
Although it is true that the President has the authority to classify and de-classify on his own authority, what he does not have the right or power to do is to lie and try to re-write history by belatedly claiming to have previously de-classified something when in fact no such event had occurred.
The grand jury testimony of Mr. Libby contains none of the self authenticating details that one would expect if indeed Mr. Libby were describing past event that had actually occurred:
Q. And the next question was, what did the Vice President tell you about his conversation with the President when the President gave you the green light to share some of the NIE information with the press which turned out to be Judith Miller?
A. He told me to go ahead and talk to — that we should go ahead and, and talk to the press about the NIE. I don't remember whether he said Judith Miller at that point or, or we should go ahead and talk about it. And, you know, I said, the President cleared it? And he said, "yes," or something. I didn't use those words necessarily, but that was — I made sure that, that he had talked to the President, the President said that we should talk about it.
Q. Do you know if he met with the President in person or spoke to him by telephone?
A. I don't know.
Q. And do you know if the Vice President was in town, in Washington, when he talked to the President about it or was out of town?
A. I believe he was in town when he talked to, talked about it.
Q. And do you know whether the President was in town when he talked to the President about it?
A. I think that he talked to the President — I believe they were both in town when they talked about it, but I, I don't know, but that was my impression.
Q. Any other detail that the Vice President imparted to you about his conversation that he had with the President?
A. No, sir.
I don’t know whether the decision not to seek charges under the Espionage Act was solely related to the “sand in the umpire’s eyes” resulting from Mr. Libby’s choice to engage in perjury and obstruction of justice or whether it was the result of a realization that with respect to at least the President, and possibly the Vice-President, the charging decision was not the Special Counsel’s to make.
You see, Madame Speaker, only the United States House of Representative has the authority — the prosecutorial discretion, if you will — to decide whether to seek indictment of the President of the United States. If that case involved a conspiracy with the Vice President, I suggest the same might hold true.
So, whatever the Special Counsel may or may not believe in his heart of hearts, under Department of Justice guidelines and the canons of prosecutorial ethics, he has little right to opine publicly about those beliefs, whatever they may be. Under ordinary circumstances he has only the option to indict and try to convict or else refrain from comment. In a unique circumstance, if the investigation reveals that the perpetrators are President in conspiracy with the Vice President, the Special Counsel would not even have the option of indictment, for that is the sole and exclusive province of Congress.
Further, bound as he is by grand jury secrecy laws, the only option open in such an unusual circumstance would be to carefully document the investigation and it’s findings, prosecute any related and ancillary cases, and hope that Congress would examine the information already in the public realm. To do so, Congress might consider making the necessary record and taking the necessary steps to unseal the grand jury information, and continue the investigation using its own investigatory powers and authority, and ultimately arrive at its own decision whether or not a prosecutable case exists and should be charged.
Ma’am, this is Congress’s non-delegable duty. And it is a sacred duty. I do not know how any such investigation will turn out, or what the reasonable conclusions flowing therefrom will be. I do know that the recent hearings conducted by the House Committee Oversight and Government Reform have added disturbing new facts to the mix. Although it is a sober and sad task to investigate one’s own President, you cannot shirk this burden, it came with your new role as Speaker. For the sake of the American People and the Constitution you have sworn to uphold, I urge you to find within yourself the strength to follow the facts and the law wherever they may lead you, even if it is somewhere you wish you did not have to go.
Respectfully,
Looseheadprop
Related posts:
- Open Letter to AHIP’s Ignagni: Meet with Victims of Insurance Industry
- Cheney’s Lawyer Already Leaked the Content of Cheney’s “Privileged” Interview
- The Fitzgerald-Cheney Interview: What Don’t We Know That We Don’t Know?
- Mitt Romney’s Love Letter to Dick Cheney
- Fitzgerald-Cheney Interview: A Comedy of Excuses





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FDL!
ZED?
Excellent!
rrrrrrufff….
Impeachment has to come from the people, not the politicians: it’s our job.
http://freewayblogger.blogspot…..-18th.html
Cardboard and paint…
Dang it! What did my daughter DO to my computer? I’m conniptionfit, not lovermine! Somehow she’s convinced my computer to substitute her address and screen name for mine. Anybody know how I fix this? …And WHERE did my daughter come up woth “lovermine” as screen name?
Well done, LHP.
Very nicely said.
lhp -
Does his aforementioned authority appear in either Executive Order 12958 or 13292? If so, where? If not, what is the statutory or regulatory authority that grants the President “the authority to classify and declassify…”? Doesn’t he have to leave a paper trail?
Well, we’ll see if Pelosi will change her mind.
We wanted grownups in charge again. One thing grownups sometimes do is not take drastic action if they can find another way, or unless they believe they have no other choice. Impeachment is supposed to be pretty danged drastic.
My hope is that she’s letting Waxman pull the strings of corruption together first.
Again, though, we’ll see.
LHP:
That is the stuff!
Criminal conspiracy sounds about right for Messrs. Bush and Cheney and their associates. Is it possible to use RICO against elected officials?
conniptionfit at 6 — just logout and then log back in as yourself. That should do it. The logout link is right above the box where you type a comment.
lhp: Great letter.
Related: From McClatchy Newspapers:
ok, how much does a full page add cost in the new york times?
can we raise enough money to place this open letter there?
want to send a chill to the administration?…get this open letter to Nancy Palosi as a paid for full page to the new york times
hell, they might even sponser some of the cost just for the action they’ll get
Mods — on previous thread, margins still busted.
Good day, goodbye Gonzo week to all!!
I am wondering if the strategerie by Madame et al is to pile on the charges via all these hearings, then when the public has had enough, whamo.
Go bloggers, team FDL!!
Emptywheel has a recommended diary up on DKos showing how Rep. Davis tailored questons to innoculate the VP about his legal authority to declassify, by sneakily and implicitly connecting the VP and President in his questions on Presidential authority to declassify.
I thought it was that my cat had busted my margins downstairs.
Does loosehead prop mean to say:
“perpetrators are (Insert “the”) President in conspiracy with the Vice President
“document the investigation and (delete) it’s (not “it is”) (insert: its) findings”
perris @
13
Why can’t it be submitted as a letter to the NYT editor?
Looseheadprop. We are not worthy. God this place rocks.
So. Imeachment is not an option, it is a duty. Not discretionary. Mandated. I’m off to phone and write. Mme Speaker, you have mail.
“You don’t have to be a weatherman to know which way the whistle blows.”
Completely OT, but Big Hank’s committee on the politics of global warming is running right now and Hanson is trashing Comey’s “edit” of the policy document he wrote.
Q. And do you know whether the President was in town when he talked to the President about it?
Did Fitz really say this?
Whoa! Right between the eyes.
LHP, excellent post. Clear, concise writing and a pleasure to read.
Firedoglake: where the grownups hang.
School is out for spring break here. Which means ‘the teach’ can catch up on some reading, etc.
From AP this morning:
“Bush to ask for patience in Iraq war”
Patience in this case equates to more dead bodies.
Bush was expected to issue a plea for more patience in the war, which has stretched longer with higher costs than the White House ever anticipated. The president was to make a statement in the Roosevelt Room.
“Patience”. This Democrat is fresh out of this sometimes elusive and intangible commodity. Speaker Pelosi, I have supported you with my vote many times back in the day when I lived in your district. I was so pleased when you became one of our leaders. Don’t let us down. Please.
LHP,
Will you send this letter and sign your real name??
I will happily donate to a fund that would publish LHP’s very important letter. She speaks for those of us who feel that just bringing these criminal acts to light is not enough!
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 19
well I’m pretty sure it would get in the opinion but I would much rather full page treatment, wouldn’t you?
I bet we can get some of the democratics campaign money to help finance the add too
Skilly @ 26
Why do you ask?
C’mon Nancy– follow the lies — to take this “off the table” is a grotesque and profound dereliction of duty. Great post lhp!
OT– Welch is slaying Cooney and bushco in his questioning.
I suspect the powers that be, represented by Cheney, are using every weapon to push back hard against oversight and any legal actions against them. Their money train is in peril, and they play to win.
I believe that’s why the Blue Dogs and the DLC members are behaving the way they are; playing the role of lineblockers for Cheney and the money men…the seduction and arm twisting must be peaking, the gifts and threats in full force. The moles have been contacted and given their orders.
I hope Speaker Pelosi and the Committee Chairs such as Waxman et al can start to beat them at this repulsive game, and soon. Time’s running out. People are feeling betrayed, which plays into the strategies of the evil Right Wing.
Impeachment why? just charge cheney with leaking treason etc and use a special prosecuter since we can’t trust Gonzo.Then tell the MSM that bush can’t pardon anyone being investigated and or charged because until the investigation is complete we won’t know if bush himself was involved/had knowledge of criminal acts that could lead to his own impeachment. Since Scooter went down dick knows he could face hard time. So if cheney delays the trial then he risks being found guilty AFTER bush has left office. Which means no pardon. Once cheney figures this out he will seek a deal and resign “for health reasons”
hey, this is a little off topic but I posted downstairs something I think we all need to do when in converstation so I’m posting it again
cheney is just such a moron as to ask toenail about the status of a cia operative
cheney seems to carry off that he has some kind of intelect when in fact he is a moron and I for one would like all democrats to start laughing when someone says his name
give a little chuckle like “you mean the moron” chuckle
like a slight gufaw holding back your laugh and ask with indredulity;
“you are using cheney as your authority?”
and then laugh it off like they are some kind of jokester
that would be great wouldn’t it?
angie @ 30
;0)
I ask because I wonder if the honorable Speaker Pelosi has thought about the impeachment issue in such terms. An open letter on a web page is all well and good, but a letter this well written coming from a writer with LHP’s credentials is not easily ignored. (if in fact she gets to see it.)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 25
I wonder if he gives any amount of friedmans
I douby it, he wants friedman times 100 I think
Stephen Parrish, CPA @
19
It’s way too long. And it wouldn’t run anyway. Better to have it run as an op-ed somewhere. While the NYT says it welcomes unsolicited op-eds, I don’t think it actually does. That doesn’t mean that somebody here doesn’t have a connection in to the editorial page staff. The Times editorial voice has been very good on these issues, so it’s not out of the question.
Buying the space is, I think, a non-starter. My recollection is that a full page is a five figure buy. Would be cool, though, if the dirty fucking hippies went mainstream.
[back of envelope calculation…..]
It took us a couple of days to sell 250 copies of a 12 dollar book. That’s 2500 dollars. I happen to think the concreteness of the donation–one donation, one book–made it easier to do. Perhaps if you sent in 20 bucks, you got to be a signatory…..
angie @ 30
Great post, indeed!!
and if you like to watch worms squirm, Cooney’s on C-SPAN 1 right now
Quebecois @
22
If he did, I don’t think he was being snarky. I think he was trying to determine if the conversation was in person or via telephone.
perfect
I have one friend who keeps saying that impeachment would take too long, so don’t do it. I keep looking at him and saying, but they have public statements and other public information that should be more than enough, why do they need a long investigation?
I don’t know which of us is not understanding the situation, but I want impeachment and I want it now.
Skilly @ 34
What’s wrong with it being submitted by “Members of The FireDogLake Community”?
Anybody else here have an objection to the premise of this letter?
Thanks Christy!
Seems like teh Congress reads the WaPoo. Maybe WaPoo is for sale? How much it costs to publish this there?
1,460 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen looseheadprop and the Firepup Patriots:
Another act of citizenship to advance truth justice and the American way, thanks… your writing is as clear as a mountain spring (at least the way mountain springs used ta be). How wouldja like ta be on the Senate staff prosecutin’ impeachment…now wouldn’t THAT be a kick??!!
But I have a question, can a House (or Senate) committee investigate a matter and uncover information and receive sworn testimony that could then be referred to a special prosecutor for criminal indictment and trial? I know, I know…this could be a long process carrying well beyond ‘08 but that is my point. I believe it is necessary to put a whole bunch of these folks in prison so we don’t end up with deja vu all over again like after Watergate and Iran Contra…and the historical record will be public and contemporaneous.
KEEP THE FAITH AND STOCK UP ON POPCORN…I TAKE MINE WITHOUT BUTTER!!
Skilly @ 34
This is a call-out by lhp. It’s a way of saying, very formally, that the Speaker has cover. Or, rather, that her excuses are running thin.
Believe me, Pelosi will see it. Her staff pays attention to the blogosphere.
P J Evans @ 40
it is the process that matters, really, we need to impeach this administration even if it starts after he is out of office (yes that can and should be done)
we need to make certain any precedence this president has set is disabused of historical significance
it does not matter how long the process takes, his actions against this country must be brought to account
bg @ 43
I’d go 100 bucks for the add
Why would it have to be a full page ad? How about half page? Still allows for larger point size and mulitple signatures. (Someone needs to find out why impeachment is off the table.)
A few days ago, just as an exercise in venting and strictly for my own personal consumption, I wrote an open letter to Nancy Pelosi. I wasn’t nearly as kind as you were, although she would be more likely to read yours. Just as an example, here is my first paragraph:
So you go girl!
I suspect the approach Pelosi was going to take was to NOT announce that they would be going after impeachment of the Chimpmaster, but that as time passed, and more facts came out from the House Committees on the criminal activities of this administration, that the nation would start demanding impeachment, and the House would follow…
Typical wimpy thinking of the Dems…the majority of the country has been out ahead of them on the war all along…as long as they are followers, they will NEVER be great leaders…
Grow some cojones Pelosi!
Whoo-wee– Al Gore is gonna testify before Congress wrt climate change on Wednesday acc. to a blurb on the screen of cspan 1.
Things are heatin’ up.
heh.
(Issa is such a loooooser and tool of the admin.
San Diego folks can do so much better!)
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 8
AS Mr. Leonard explained on Friday it is a Cnstitutional power under Article II.
The Executive Orders, require the record keeping.
12958 was signed by Clinton and set up the rules for how the process would work and the records that would be kept.
13292 puports to extended declassification authority to the VP. I may try to day a whole post on these twp later in the week, but I just got slammed with 4 Summary Judgement motions all on the same day, and may go blind just trying to read them all, sooooo
Send the letter to Frank Rich and tell him it would be great if it appears on the Op-Ed page of the NYTimes. He dips into the Lake from time to time. (Second-hand knowledge.)
angie @ 51
are they allowed to ask him about other things he might have information they need?…you know, Iraq type things?
is he allowed to offer without their asking?
We all go round and round on all of this evidence. No one doubted that Al Capone was a murderer, even though his conviction was for tax evasion. Given the political implications of the impeachment proceedings, especially during “wartime”, the most linear path should be pursued, one where the executive prerogatives aren’t the issue.
Rather, it is the “unitary executive” concept that must fall, whether or not the office holders do or not. This is ultimately what we owe those who struggled before us and those who will follow.
It appears that Gonzo and GeeDubya obstructed justice when they blocked the DoJ Office of Professional Responsibility (OPR) clearances for the NSA wiretapping investigation. This may turn out to be the cleanest, most direct case for impeachment. We will all learn more if and when Gonzo answers the letter from Senators Durbin Kennedy Feingold and Schumer regarding the timelines. Here we have the reason why oversight can protect the executive. If the proper congressional briefings had occurred, and FISA had been followed, they were covered. But by declaring themselves above the law, and wrapped in “national security during wartime” bovine manure, they have left themselves open.
Expect a 5-4 decision in favor of Leahy et al from SCOTUS on executive privilege. Ah the irony of it all as the cherry blossoms bloom.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 8
Oh, most important part. All of these acts leave a peper trial. The post from Saturday is about that point.
There is NO EVIDENCE in the public record as of yet that insta-declassification in fatc happened when they said it did.
You can bet Libby’s lawyers would have put it into evidence if they had it.
It is possible that there NOTHING>NADA>ZILCH to ccorroborate the fertilizer Bush and Cheney are slinging.
And do we doubt that Shrub will shirk from throwing Cheney under the bus?
jayackroyd @ 8:05 am -
I agree. The Huffington Post, having printed posts by Jane, Christy, and Pachacutec, is one possible online publication that readily comes to mind.
Skilly @
34
I am just suggesting that the reason looseheadprop uses a nome du blog may be because, well, what do you think? Put it together. Why might she not want to have her name made public? I also expect that she has sent this to Mme Speaker, and further that Mme Speaker and/or her staff do monitor this blog.
There is nothing stopping you from sending a copy of this to Speaker Pelosi and/or your own rep under *your* own name, and I urge you to do so. I have.
OT ~ Ned Lamont @ HuffPo:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..43747.html
Glorfindel @
16
Yup, and here’s the link.
LJ/Aquaria @ 9
All I’m asking her to do, is stop saying she has decided the outcome before all the facts are uncovered. I’m not asking anybody to impeach anybody, just for an open mind.
From AP (hope it ain’t so):
If our primary objection to this administration is the continued U.S. military presence in Iraq, and a prevention of further unprovoked attacks on other countries (which not incidentally might lead to a world war), and a deep concern for the protection of Mother Earth, then what Democrat is best suited to our purpose? And what Democrat is least suited to our purpose?
Skilly @ 34
there is no bio on lhp, I would love to know her credentials as well
It seems to me that there is an obvious tin hat back story.
The vast right wing conspiracy hummed along, building its ideological power through various institutions (universities, think tanks, churches, etc.) and its manpower through various domestic and foreign police and military organizations.
It worked really well at capturing places like Honduras and Nicaragua, less well at capturing Iran. But they were pretty careful to stay incognito in the US.
Without control over all of the executive and legislative powers in the US, there was value left on the table. The risks of doing more were great, but the take was greater.
The well disciplined covert ops like Iran-Contra were replaced by more and more ambitious schemes that could be attributed to the Republicans more easily.
So they needed to take over the DoJ to ensure that no cans of works ever got opened. They needed to censor scientists to ensure that no truth be told. They needed to dominate
Congress so that no oversight would ever be exercised.
And it worked until November 2006. There was only Fitz until then.
Now Congress is subpoenaing the hell out of these guys. It seems to me that the Bushies didn’t cover their tracks well enough because they never thought that they would be subject to the rule of law. I read a quite from a senior democrat that said, “We’ve had the power of the subpoena for 6 weeks now, and it seems like every tree we bark at has a cat in it.”
The Republicans overreached. Oliver North might have warned them, but he didn’t have the moral substance. John Dean has their number.
Let us hope that the sunlight now falling on the DoJ will illuminate the deeds that Gonzales was hiding through his manipulation of the USAs.
Is this when the house of cards will come down? Are Schumer and Waxman ready? What about the media and the military?
This could get tough.
How or should I ask how much has Issa benefited from energy interests?
perris @ 54
You mean such as how his boss Bill Clinton had learned from the 1999 “Desert Crossing” wargame exercise that it would have taken at least 400,000 troops (three times what Rumsfeld used) to have a prayer of taking and holding Iraq — but that Bush and Rumsfeld and Cheney ignored that little warning, preferring instead to trust “Curveball” and Ahmad Chalabi?
looseheadprop @ 56
lhp -
Please look at this:
http://www.antiwar.com/prather/?articleid=10507
perris @ 64
There are many reasons why some of us write under pseudonyms. I think it’s entirely up to the discretion of the writer to reveal more information depending on their personal situation.
I, for one, write under a pseudonym because of my kids. It’s not airtight, but it keeps the worst elements from attacking my kids since they attend a school with children of many right-wing supporters.
Does the letter make sense? Is there a flaw in the rationale? if not, then what does it matter the actual identity or the credentials?
Frank Probst @ 38
I think it was both. Search for info and snark inside his one head.
Phoenix Woman @ 67
‘zaktly
plus I’m sure he has information we DON’T know about too
can he volunteer this or does he have to be asked?
can they ask questions not assoiciated with the case at hand if he allows it?
Biodun @ 62
This means that he’s gone.
See, it’s Team Bush’s way of trying to publicly distance themselves from his eventual resignation “to spend time with his family”, while privately pressuring him to leave. Bush might as well have gone up and pinned the Medal of Freedom on Gonzales’ chest and then kissed him on the cheek.
Condoleeza Rice. Have you ever seen a more appropriate example of the “peter principle”? (George Bush?). From NSA to Secretary of State.
Great work, lhp.
Thaks for sharing your efforts with us. I appreciate your work, and I respect whatever reasons may lead to use of your pseudonym.
NorskeFlamethrower @ 44
Actually it the House that prosecutes the impeachment, the Senate is the Jury.
I would kill to work in this investigation. I am allergic to fraud. It drives me nuts. I hate it when people try to game the system.
Phoenix Woman @ 72
I don’t think so
I believe rove understands that gonzales will become a pox if he is removed from his office
every single decision or opinion he posed will be challenged and held to ridicule, he only gets some kind of credibility because he is still on staff
I think they understand abu torture will be the corner stone removed if they “resign” him
imo, he’s staying as long as possible
Zig alert.
Please limit re-quoting, 2-3 max, we already somehow broke the margins once this morning.
LJ/Aquaria says @ 9
“My hope is that she’s letting Waxman pull the strings of corruption together first.”
I hope that you correct. In December, John Dean noted that
“Democrats, when they undertook to impeach Richard Nixon, moved very slowly, building bipartisan support for the undertaking. Nixon, of course, resigned, when it became apparent that the House had the votes to impeach and the Senate had the votes to convict, with his removal supported by Democrats and Republicans, and conservatives and liberals alike.”
But he also noted that impeachment is a political process, and I believe that LHP is right to remind Pelosi that she would show courage to bring her stance into focus by examining how the political landscape has changed since she said that.
Thanks, LHP, for this clear and cogent post!
Good letter, lhp. While not a big proponent of impeachment right now from a strategic standpoint, it’s hard to watch Democrats become so intimidated by the right wing noise machine that they publicly commit to refuse to engage in appropriate oversight, should it become apparent that such oversight is needed.
We’ve got a long way to go.
…the plameteenth wheel has come off…
perris @ 64
Truth Needs No Credentials….
Sachem515 @ 55
You are a very wise Sachem. Very wise. I agree with you.
Larry @ 81
I don’t need credentials to love the authors here, all are just plain unbelievable
I do however like to bask in the accomplishments of others…tiz vicarious I know but there it is
IANAL but I am in advertising media.
It would take more research to confirm, but an initial look at NYTimes ad rates shows:
$175K for a full-page
$94K for a half-page
(This is a weekday national placement, 1.13 million circulation. There might be a better rate structure available to non-profits or media, if we can qualify.)
Another option would be to run in the NY region only (600K circ).
LHP, this is great, and it needs to reach a big audience. Do we suppose we could get more support via D Kos, TPM, et al?
Count me in to help with getting it negotiated & placed.
perris @ 47
Unfortunately you would need a lot more to outbid the current owners, the RNC.
Nola Sue @ 84
ekk, we couldn’t raist that…err…about that full page add idea
never mind then
Biodun @ 62
Code for> ALberto start drafting your own letter of resignation
Bush coming up live on NPR – was this scheduled? Supposed to be about the war, but…..?
Jane Hamsher @ 79
Seems to me like all roads lead to it; there’s no hurry. Especially if, as has been the case, the administration is kept on the defensive.
Lying about the firing of US attorneys leads to information that one was possibly sacked for looking into Dusty Foggo, which is going to uncover a whole bunch of wriggling worms under that rock.
All roads lead to Jeff Gannon. I mean impeachment.
lhp — incoming.
Larry (81) — excellent.
Unfortunately, Truth needs to pack brass knuckles and a cudgel when dealing with this administration. It shouldn’t need a stinkin’ badge, though.
Yee haw! But this sounds like treason to me – anyone know if such a crime is in the U.S. Code?
HotFlash @ 58
While I have my suspicions, as to her (LHP) identity, that is neither relevant, nor the intended focus of my post. LHP certainly can deliver (w/o public inspection) her letter privately over signature. To make it clear, I LIKE this letter.
One can argue philosophically about the truths contained in an argument are self evident, and there is no need to provide the name of an originator to give it weight. Conversely, putting on a real name adds a human-ness that further validates the message. IMHO
I will take your suggestion and I will reprint the message and mail it today, assuming I have permission to do so by its writer.
Detainee confesses to USS Cole bombing
The WH is trying to push some more good news out but all they have is confessions from tortured suspects. Soon, all cases will be solved and we’ll no longer need Guantanamo.
“Petrolium fox” in the NOAA henhouse hearings now on at Cspan1.
looseheadprop @ 87
I read that differently. I thought it was code for: We don’t yet have a Repug-approved Administration-happy replacement for Abu G. in the queue yet that will also survive the sh*tstorm that will pass as a Senate confirmation process…
could someone through me out please?
I have work to do today
Ed*ard Teller @
89
This is Bush’s “I am not a crook” presser . . .
Either that, or he will announce that he just nuked Iran . . .
Re Gonzales—
“We -hope- he’ll stay”
HAHAHAHAHAHA
He’s toast.
[sorry Rayne]
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 69
12958 does not give Cheney any declassifaction authority, but 13292 purports to.
13292 is the driective signed by Bush
Skilly @ 26
And will you post her response please…
and also send it to the NY Times:)
Pheonix Woman and lhp:
I think you’re right. He’s Snow later on (from AP):
“We hope he stays”? That’s not a strong vote of confidence.
All roads lead to Jeff Gannon. I mean impeachment -
tommy yum
that’s hilarious. I thought all roads led to Rome. Oh okay. Jeff ‘The Roman’ Gannon then.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @
57
Bingo!
and make sure KOlberman gets a copy!
Oklahoma kiddo @
25
Ditto. I was out of patience on 09/12/2001/
Democrats who go spineless are the last thing we need. We need people who will understand what the right thing is, and do it, and let the chips fall where they may.
perris (96) — it’s all about the billables, baby. You don’t have billables, it’s hard to pony up another 100 bucks for the next full-page ad in NYT. Now get to work.
Who, me? I have a telcon at 3:00pm, only billable work today. Nothing at all until then. ;-)
BTW, Darryl Issa’s campaign contributions since 2000 show Electric Utilities being the industry sector making the largest amount of contributions. You are seeing a corporate whore at work today.
looseheadprop @ 99
“purports to”
if you don’t mind, elaborate please, what is the passage, how does he interperate it and what would common interperation be?
ironranger @ 66
go to http://www.opensecrets.org, they have all reported donations and a good search engine & presentation. Here is their page for Rep Issa.
spoonful @
92
Look at 18 USC 2381.
looseheadprop -
While we’re on the subject of treason (and habeas corpus will appear in the case that I am about to mention), please look at Ex parte Bollman and see what you think of John Marshall’s opinion rendered in 1807.
If the president chokes on a pretzel what he is thinking of is instantly declassified!
If the president falls off a bicycle what he is thinking of is instantly declassified!
If the president writes a note asking Condi’s permission to use the washroom what he is thinking of it instantly declassified!
Guitar_Playing_Bastard @ 104
I was out of patience as soon as DeLay’s goons stormed the Miami-Dade Board of Elections and illegally stopped the recount in Dec.’00.
perris @ 97
Get your work done; We will wait for your return.
One note of contrition, I apologize to LHP if I gave the impression that I do not respect her privacy/anonymity. Absolutely, I understand the desire to write with a nom de plume. I would neither ask nor would I reveal if I knew a bloggers real identity. If I contributed to a “chilling effect,” I am truly sorry.
Magnificent job lhp!
perris @ 107
It will take an actual researched post to answer your question correctly. Give me a couple days, please. Pretty please
Professor Prop, you are so much more civil than ol cbl, ’cause I’m about ready to put Madame Speaker’s manolos to the fire in my impatience . . .
ok, somewhere in these threads I picked up something about somewhere within the arcane bowels of 18 US Code – wherein it’s a violation – if you’re in possession of criminal evidence and fail to turn it over to proper authorities – n’est-ce pas ?
and didn’t you quiz us all the other night about a possible crime and a very specific legal remedy, i.e. US House of Representatives ???
so in my twisted logic, isn’t she in violation of the statute and therefore better get a move on ???
Well, that was quick!
Even shorter George W. Bush – “stay the course”…..
They’re letting Nina Totenberg report again. Was she on vacation for the past two weeks? They’re letting her handle the very, very important Bong hits for Jesus case. Actually, it IS an important case. welcome back, Ken.
1,460 dayz and the killin’ goez on and on and..
Citizen looseheadprop and the Firepups:
Yes, thanks for the clarification…but what about as a parallel strategy to impeachment, to take testimony, develop information on specific events or actions and then establish a special prosecutor to charge the purps and send ‘em ta jail. This would NOT get in the way of impeachment if that became politically viable but would insure that those who aren’t covered by the cloak of presidential immunity to prosecution would be held accountable before the bar of justice.
And how would this work….would it be possible to empower several special prosecutors or establish jest one BIG legal Samurai. In any case, impeachment or not, there need to be many criminal trials for a multitude of acts over the last 6 years. And it would be better for these trials to take place over the course of several years beyond ‘08 in order to send a message to the minions of the oligarchy that their rich bosses can’t protect ‘em.
How could such a coordinated attack on the evil doers be accomplished?
KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T BUY A USED CARD FROM ANY OF THESE NAZIS!!
Nancy Pelosi does not have the authority to take impeachment off the table. If it’s in the Constitution it’s in effect, Goddammit; when are these people gonna learn? It’s not a suggestion, it’s the law.”Preserve,protect, and defend” is your oath and if you violate your oath it’s impeachable and when you are convicted you go to jail. Until that happens this scenario will continue to repeat itself. It will not send a shockwave through America; everyone out here already has someone in their family in prison or on parole. The shockwave needs to go through Washington. More than once.
No strings on this money!!!
I hope Congress doesnt back down. They need to really stand up for the end of this war.
alls I can say is, hell yeah!
Quebecois @ 22
Yes.
Consider the reason why: Cheney ordered Libby to leak
the NIEPlame’s identity to Judy on July 8–though they may have arranged the meeting on July 7. Bush was out of town by evening July 7.So when did Cheney talk to Bush about it?
Nola Sue @ 85
Great idea.
I also wouldn’t mind if this excerpt were faxed directly to the White House:
Someone needs to tell this to George.
lhp @ 8:36 am -
I will, when time permits, look at EO 13292 again. I don’t recall that it gives the Vice President declassification authority.
Let us momentarily revert to Article II. Where does it explicitly state that the President possesses powers, inherent or otherwise, to classify and declassify information?
Executive Order 13292
OT–
Souder v Waxman
Big Hank wins.
Ms. Norton nailing Deutsch now on his “intelligent design”.
A big bang, indeed.
Talk about “the kiss of death”:
White House hopes Gonzales will stay on
WASHINGTON – Amid bipartisan calls for Attorney General Alberto Gonzales’ resignation in a scandal over dismissals of eight federal prosecutors, the White House said Monday, “We hope he stays.
When asked if Gonzales will serve for the rest of President Bush’s term, White House press secretary Tony Snow said, “Well, we hope so.”
Skilly @ 113
Don’t worry about it. You know, the one thing Vicky T said on Friday that was true, is the rule of 38. When 38 people know who you are, you ain’t covert no more.
For a long long time only Christy and Littleprop knew. When I started front page posting, that circle had to expand quite a bit because there are back stage discussions about schelduing and stuff.
The closer we get to 38, the sonner I’m gonna have to kill off Looseheadprop. I’m trying hard not to have to make that decision any sooner than is absolutley necessary.
followup to 123 (re: NolaSue’s suggestion of an ad) – any word on what a 1/2 page ad in WaPo would run?
I think we could raise quite a bit of money for this between the major leftie blog sites. Not $175k, but probably enough to get it in WaPo or NYT for a limited distribution. It would, itself, generate news buzz.
excellent letter(!) — loved this bit:
nor does the vice president.
that much is plain, as well. we — the
people — are owed answers. and either
conyers, pelosi, leahy, or waxman
ought to be/are helping us get them. . .
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 124
I do believe I read in one of these orders that the president in instance of emergency can declassify
I do not believe I read anywhere that the vice president can do the same
AND
I cannot believe the president can transfer his power of declassification no matter what he signed, that would be up to congress
Jane Hamsher @ 79
What is up my nose is ‘off the table’. A lot of us voted Dem and shook heaven and earth to get as many other folks to do so as possible, and one big selling point in Mich was impeachment, as evidenced by Rep John Conyers’ talk, petition, and book (which disappeared very quietly, has anyone heard?). OK, ok, I understand about not telegraphing to the enemy, but you don’t need to insult your friends. The R’s will fight and resist in any case, her ‘off the table’ stmt struck me as as gratuitous a gesture as Debbie Stabenow (D-Mich) voting for Torture when it was gonna pass anyway. Feh.
That struck a big dull thud with me when I heard it. It meant that not only was the House of Reps (the only body that *can* impeach) going to pursue impeachment, the only form of oversight that works on , um runaway presidents, but it marginalized any of us who spoke up in favor if it. We cannot even discuss impeachment without seeming disloyal or flaky. And that is not right or just. Double feh.
Jane Hamsher @
80
Which is why it’s good that we’re pushing from this side, to counter the RWNM.
looseheadprop @ 115
thanx lhp, I would love to see the arguments from both sides
you’re great…did I say it yet?
Coincidentally, I just wrote to Speaker to argue the same…only not as eloquently.
How much of the Valerie Plame leak was not pursued because (the holy) Patrick Fitzgerald was protective of his job? Sure, he proved what he could, and accepted the offering of the Bushies.
Doesn’t it appear obvious that there was a conspiracy which continues to this day…to reveal the identity of a CIA agent and escape any culpability for it. Why does Rove still have security clearance? The scrawlings on Cheney’s issue of the Times, the six reporters who were contacted, the calls from AirForce One…none of these leads were really pursued in depth.
NorskeFlamethrower @ 118
Any of those ideas might work. They all have complicated details. It’s always the details that get ya.
Right now, the various Congressional Committees can and, hopefully will, investigate these various matters.
If impeachment is NOT “off the table” and a Committee can build a record to support the need to unseal the evidence, a motion can be made before Judge Walton to unseal all the GJ info.
Pelosi needs to stand down, PUBLICLY, from her “off the table” statement, or the motion will fail
I like this from Frank Rich. From his “Ides of March” column yesterday:
(NYTimes link behind TimesSelect firewall.)
Biodun @ 137
OH BABY…I hope the democrats are behind the firewall…do they get free subscriptions?
Please, please actually send this letter to Pelosi.
emptywheel @ 122
Hee hee hee. Like I said, we haven’t seen any contemporaneuos records of this.
Mr. Leonard has been fighting with OVP for years trying to get the records…….
LHP:Have you seen Man of the Year yet?
looseheadprop @
61
That came through loud and clear in your beautifully crafted letter. Great work. Thanks.
Oklahoma kiddo @
126
From Raw Story:
New e-mails to fuel scandal over US attorney firings
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 124
I swear, I will find the time to do this properly later in the week, but for now, this is the first passage that extends the authority to the VEEP. I’m not going to do the rest of the analysis now. I promise to do it in a couple days.
Thanks hotflash-my questions are usually cynical (should label) about this mob. I don’t think I can come up with a repub legislator that is a real public servant by any stretch. They interpret that to mean the public serves them.
in my rather rich fantasy world, I often wonder if JAG’s have the power/duty to prosecute their Commander in Chief for war crimes and obstruction of same
New thRedd for y’all.
The Lunch Bunch
The Republicans always make me nervous and angry. But I don’t expect this from my party. But the Democrats are having the same effect on me.
perris @ 130
Hence my choice to use the word “purports”
A fund raiser might be successful if you provide some verification that the donation was used to publish that letter (as in something to show my grandchildren some day).
It might make donating more attractive if the donor rec’d (by email) a copy of the letter and something like ‘your donation made this possible’. Or something like that. Wouldn’t mind something to show the grandkids.
My father donated to Statue of Liberty fund (he was an immigrant). He Framed it and displayed it proudly for a year or two!
thatlldopig @ 118
Yes! Everyone talks about impeachment is if it were some huge, scary thing like beheading a monarch. Geo W is not Charles I, impeachment is not beheading, it’s not even prison, it is *firing*. From a very important job!
You know, like what happens to the ordertaker at BurgerMonarch the 8th time she screws up an order, like what happens to PizzaDeliveryGuy if he lets the pizzas get gold while he visits his girlfriend, like the DayCareLady who leaves the diapers on all day ‘cos it’s cheaper, like the Purchasing Agent who gets the contractors to repanel his rec room. You know, can his ass outta there!
“. . .you can blow out a candle — but
you can’t blow out a fire. . .
once the flames begin to catch,
the wind will blow it higher. . .”
– peter gabriel
what is needed now, is the wind. . .
the wind of all of our voices. . .
congressional fact-finding hearings — in
public, under oath, and for the world to
see — and if there is no candor, then. . .
my favorite flavor is. . . hmmmmmm. . .
peach-mint!
p e a c e
Sarik @ 134
Heh, Please do not accuse PatFitz of nonfeasance in front of me. It gets my Irish up, and not in a good way.
Last Friday in a live-blogging thread, questions were raised (the passive voice, in the spirit of BuschCo) about Waxman voting for the Iraq War. This from Frank Rich should clarify things a little bit:
(NYTimes link behind TimesSelect firewall.)
IANAL and correct me if I am mistaken, doesn’t the simple act of bringing impeachment proceedings to the president, immediately remove the ability of the president to pardon? Any committee inthe House investigating wrongdoing in the conduct of the office would be working on impeachment proceedings to a Bill of Impeachment for consideration of the Senate. Once in the Senate, the Bill of Impeachment has priority over all other business. But the impeachment investigation can take as long as necessary to obtain facts. The important thing would be that the Power of Pardon is tied up and unusable all the while. Irving all the while, strung up, slowly, twisting, in the breeze, and no manna from the WH.
ruffian @ 140
Er, no. What is it? a movie?
looseheadprop @ 53
When you get to it, can you also cover classification vs. declassification? As I read it, it extends classification power to the VP, but not declassification, but I could be wrong. It seems obvious to me that classification authority does not automatically confer declassification authority (at least not for information for which someone else is the classifying authority.)
looseheadprop @ 61
Baby steps. That’s how this works.
BTW, folks, keep in mind how the republicans operate. They have a crazy drug addict say outlandish things on the radio for a couple of months, and then have not so crazy people write things up in out of the mainstream print media and then have kinda crazy people at a certain financial publication run the ideas, and then it makes its way to the popular newsweeklies.
The blogosphere is the equivalent of the talk radio phase of an action. We’ve got the good fortune of not being crazy or drug addled, so this should go faster for us. But we need to carve out this position so that there’s room to move towards it. In the real world, this starts with a judiciary committee investigation motivated by material that comes to light from hearings held by other committees.
LHP,
One thing to note is that upon impeachment a president loses his pardonability, so there are reasons to resign, a la Nixon, while one is still pardonable.
perris @ 47
Yes, that is very much the point. And for anyone who thinks it’ll take too long, how long do you think it will take to write laws covering everything we used to think was so obviously wrong that no one would try it, like pressuring US Attorneys to target your political opponents?
As you said, impeachment means that nothing this administration did should be used as a precedent.
HotFlash @ 132
I took it a little differently. I took it as Pelosi trying to say that Impeachment wasn’t the top priority of the Democratically-led House right now. She wanted to put the attention on accomplishing change and being perceived as people who were elected to pass legislation to fix our nation’s problems. Now, if, when going about the business of fixing problems, they happen to run into information that shows illegalities and improprieties by Bush and/or Cheney, well, then impeachment ends up on the table, front & center. This way, it doesn’t look like they’re being vengeful – they’re just following the public’s lead.
I know, this may sound like an apologists answer, but I have a feeling it was a shrewd move on Pelosi’s part. If she started her term screeching about Impeachment, then the political media machine would have made certain to eviscerate her from any appearance of being thoughtful and serious about addressing real problems most Americans feel. Now, many of the skeptical independents have a higher opinion of her than they may have if she put impeachment front & center as the top priority. Her gamble is paying off – she has more street cred, support of the President and the Veep is dropping, and these investigations have to happen before impeachment can be seriously considered. It seems less like partisan hackery.
Plus, if we don’t have the votes to be able to stop the surge or limit the war in Iraq or prevent an attack on Iran, we surely don’t have the votes for impeachment right now.
Frankly, I would be surprised if impeachment happens. I don’t think they’ll find enough of Bush and/or Cheney’s fingerprints to make a clear case for impeachment in the next year. Rove’s team will continue to complicate the issue, and it’s more likely legalese will go to the Supreme Court for clarification before impeachment could begin to muster enough votes.
Love the letter with one small comment: The paragraph that ends
“In no way do I mean to suggest that you have made your statements in bad faith, I realize that the infrequency with which the House finds itself in the role of a prosecutorial entity makes it unlikely that the ethical strictures placed upon a prosecutorial entity will be a regular part of Congressional culture. This is an unfamiliar role for you.”
This struck me as condescending/patronizing and I think you can make the point better.
Otherwise I totally support publishing it as a full page ad in the NYT, LATimes and WaPo. I think it would get more attention as an ad than as an op-ed.
New thRedd.
I hope people are watching/listening to CSPAN on the hearings on global warming. Republicans are smearing the scientist for his criticism of the Bush Administration censoring scientific reports. It’s unbelievable what Republican Issai (sic)of California is trying to do to Mr. Hansen.
LHP: yes a movie-I think you will enjoy. Robin Williams as Comedy Central type star who runs for President~LOTS OF ISSUES OF RIGHT/WRONG/FRAUD ETC
rxbusa @
161
I had no problem with the tone.
Just to add to Rayne’s link earlier:
Issa’s biggest contributors
Note that the biggest individual contributors are in security, defense, and telecom. Also some of these are headquartered in San Diego, so he’d be local for them.
Bluetoe @ 163
Not Spencer but Hansen. Sorry bout that.
[Mod Note; all fixed]
looseheadprop@127
The closer we get to 38, the sonner I’m gonna have to kill off Looseheadprop. I’m trying hard not to have to make that decision any sooner than is absolutley necessary.
I know a prop who lost a bit of weight and moved into the 2nd row.
I always played flanker (7) – you have another 14 positions to go through before you have to change your “nom de plume”.
A fantastic letter – have you noticed that since the “live blog” the quality of the threads and the commentaries has reached a new high?
If impeachement is off the table and phase 2 is off the table then our Ms president is over a barrel…and being approached by a highly trained BEAR!
The suspense is terrible…I hope it lasts.
( Btw I use a nom-de-guerre. Pseudonyms are for sneakers. My dogs bark and the segue moves on)
lhp:
You have managed above to say what I have been thinking but been unable to express, maybe because IANAL.
btw, not to be nit-picky (I feel like Professor whoever) but I think that “and impliedly a third in President Bush.” should be either be “implied in” or “implicitly.” I just want you to sound EVEN more awesome.
Also by the way regarding:
Shouldn’t there be some burden to use this authority ONLY in the interest of National Security and NOT just to save the asses of RePukes?
I really, really, really hope that Ms. Pelosi reads this and gives it DUE Consideration!
Fresh thread up and running for everyone, including a bit of amusement for you all.
This letter is great.
I live in the Haight Ashbury in San Francisco and thus am a constituent of Nancy Pelosi. I can’t say that she would respond to someone named “looseheadprop” no matter how well the letter is written. You see, in this neighborhood (and in hers) we have a lot of crazy people who yell at bushes, cars and invisible friends. We also have a lot of hobos with made-up hippie names who shoot up heroin over in the park. In this neighborhood, sadly, we learn to avoid the weird: people without real names or who aren’t real people.
I’d suggest, when dealing with a City Council person or anyone higher than that, you use your real name as a sign of respect.
Just a suggestion.
LHP, Great letter. Whether Speaker Pelosi should be taken literally or not for her post-election statement ‘Impeachment is off the table’, your present the NEW INFORMATION which a reasonable decision maker would take into account. You argue, investigate this, use what Fitzgerald has done, and if it rises to law breaking by the Pres and the Vice Pres, the house has the unique authority and responsibility to prosecute; no one else can. Your case is made in how your present the new information.
I don’t have any deeper or intellectual comments to make that are not already stated here.
I do wish that the Ms. Pelosi would inform the Congress that it certainly has the information and the right to consider impeachment of the President, VicePresident, and their senior staff members.
It is integral to the honest and critical performance of the government.
Can the Republican party be outlawed as a criminal enterprise?
Superb letter, LHP, and I wholly concur with its thrust and intent.
However, I’m disappointed at the misleading way you used ellipses in quoting from Fitz’s 10/28/05 press conference. You specifically redact comments demonstrating a much more nuanced and (appropriately, I think) reticent attitude on Fitz’s part toward the Espionage Act.
Here are the passages you quote, with the language you very selectively omit boldfaced:
And all I’ll say is that if national defense information which is involved because her affiliation with the CIA, whether or not she was covert, was classified, if that was intentionally transmitted, that would violate the statute known as Section 793, which is the Espionage Act. That is a difficult statute to interpret. It’s a statute you want to carefully apply…. [my ellipses here]
So there are people who should argue that you should never use that statute because it would become like the Official Secrets Act. I don’t buy that theory, but I do know you should be very careful in applying that law because there are a lot of interests that could be implicated in making sure that you pick the right case to charge that statute.
With the Espionage Act, what’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Do we really want the whistle blowers who tipped James Risen to the NSA eavesdropping program to face prosecution?
lhp, when you do that post, don’t forget that Clinton did add the VP after he issued his EO. He didn’t do it by EO though, but it is public record. Bush then changed the language some and did that in his EO, but the original reference to inclusion of the VP was from Clinton. This gets misstated enough that I want to point it out.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/clinton/oca.html
LHP:
Just wanted to add my praise for your wonderful letter. The logic is compelling and the tone is respectful. I hope that Pelosi would be persuaded.
Mary4 @ 177
cut and paste passage please where clinton transferred presidential discretion onto the vice president
man, if this is true I am liking clinton that much less
Ms. Pelosi has a duty to use House time effectively. She has no duty to use the House’s authority to impeach if she is convinced that the Senate jury has insufficient votes to convict. Chokin’ Joe Lieberman, for one, would never vote to impeach.
The consequence of impeachment, trial and conviction is limited to removal from office. Fortunatley, the Constitution does not bar subsequent federal or state prosecutions for the underlying crimes that led to impeachment, or for other crimes.
The problem is obtaining sufficient evidence to prove these crimes beyond a reasonable doubt. Like a good prosecutor, Ms. Pelosi might better use the House’s time by laying out the administration’s many “high crimes and misdemeanors” via serial investigations such as Mr. Waxman’s. By then, Mr. Bush and company may be out of office; they will not be beyond the law. They know it full well; hence, the USA scandal.
Mr. CheneyRove and gang have a passion for disrupting government. That which cannot be outsourced or otherwise bent to garner partisan gain is made dysfunctional. That’s the crux of the USA scandal.
Disrupt ten percent of USA offices directly, the best even, and you disrupt ninety percent indirectly. Add a nightmarish load of retried cases to underfunded and understaffed offices, taint them all with the possibility of political corruption, and you create a mess that takes years to fix. Sweeten that by hypocritically arguing that the disruption – surfacing when the next administration rightly puts its own people in place – is actually caused by the new administration, and you may delay your own reckoning. Karl Rove 101.
I would be happier with a dozen hearings like Waxman’s instead of a single impeachment. Evidence that might be destroyed or memories that might be bought off by January 2009 may still be recoverable and fresh, and hence documented. And other work that has gone undone may also get done.
looseheadprop @ 126
The irony, of course, is the more effective you are, the harder it is to keep the circle small.
Thank you, thank you for writing what I’ve posted here at fdl a number of times. This is of utmost importance.
BAM!
mbbsdphil @ 180
this is the tail waggin the dog however
nobody knows how depraved the evindence is yet and believe me, it will be more substantial then we can guess right now
“theorhetically” we wouldn’t know if there are enough votes to impeach untill the evidence was presented
we could create such a hugh and cry when the facts are made public that the neo fascists would have no choice but impeach if they wanted to preserve any hope of re election
“there aren’t enough votes” is premature, we don’t know how many votes till discovery
nancy has an obligation to eliminate prescences that have been set by this administration, impeachment does the trick
ralphbon @ 175
Oh, I gree with you that it is much more subtle than that.
But I’m not suggesting that Pat should have charged. I’m saying that these things are implicated and that it is Congress’s decision to make.
mbbsdphil @ 179
I did not ask her to impeach. I asked her to stand down from the “impeahment is off the table”. That’s all. it is a very ,imited letter
God, I wish I could type!
looseheadprop @ 186
Fair enough. Selectively investigate the most egregious cases of corruption and maladministration. That should reveal lots of evidence for prosecutors to digest and for voters to consider. It also sets the bar for those Democrats who like it warm and comfy rather than straight up. Like those voting Not to correct the serial failures of the Army Corps of Engineers.
VJB @
175
RICO! RICO! RICO!
Oklahoma kiddo @
64
My primary objection to this administration is the notion of the unitary executive with nearly unchecked power. The Iraq War is the most ghastly expression of this underlying philosphy, but you see it manifested in everything this administration has undertaken. This is why impeachment is necessary. Unless Congress acts decisively to draw some very bright lines demarcating what the executive branch can and cannot do, this administration will have succeeded in establishing a precedent that will be increasingly difficult to undo over time. I do not care which party is in control, absolute power corrupts absolutely and our democracy will fail (just as our predecessors failed) if we don’t actively restrain the overreaching of this executive. The way the investigations and possible impeachment proceeds is an area I am unqualified to comment on, but allowing this administration to continue conducting its affairs as it has for another two years establishes a very dangerous precedent indeed.
P.S. I would be delighted to chip in for a full or half page ad to share LHP’s letter with a much broader audience…
This is FANTASTIC… I want to copy it and send it to her. LHP, did you really send this to Pelosi?
Sincerely, this is amazing.
Please help me out. After all this time I still don’t understand:
Is it true that it’s confirmed, that they admitted, and that it’s in the public record that
1) Armitage leaked
2) Rove leaked
3) Libby leaked
If so, then why can’t they be charged with the leaks and convicted, as well as Libby being charged with perjury?
j.cro @ 191
No, I did not send it to her. An open letter is a letter you publish in an open forum.
Feel free to print out and send
this post (as with pretty much 2 out of every 3 posts at the site) needs editing. it’s too long and loses its focus. it is therefore less effective as polemic and as a vehicle for change.
seriously, someone needs to hire an editor around here. so many posts just make the same point over and over and over, and no matter what new person comes in to blog, it just keeps getting more prolix.
stop it.
elef @ 192
Read Ralphbon at 175 above. Especailly the end paragraph. and then Phred at 190
It’s all about creating the RIGHT precedents
looseheadprop @ 193
Thanks, I think I’ll link to it from my blog as well.
Robert Green @ 194
It’s deliberate. You have to hammer it over and over again until it breaks through.
When you said I needed and editor, I thought you were referring to my really bad proofreading. I always end up cringing when I see the mistakes I did not catch before I sent it off.
One of the problems with being anonymous is I don’t have a second pair of eyes to proofread for me and it’s hard to proof your own work becasue you tend to “see” what you meant to type instead of what is actually on the screen.
lhp we were off line until now—
Thank God you You were not tight head and running the risk of getting punch drunk. BRILLIANT.
Forwarded.
emptywheel @ 122
Thanks to LHD for a great article, To Frank and Marcy for the clearing this out for me.
j.cro @ 196
Thank you
Robert Green @
194
We have been brainwashed into thinking everything can be summarized into tiny little bits, hence the plague of sound bites. I started reading blogs out of desperation, because it is so difficult to find well posed arguments in the MSM. I don’t mind reading long pieces so long as they are coherent and well argued. Kudos to looseheadprop and all the folks who post here. This has become my favorite site for discussion of our broken political system. Keep up the good work…
looseheadprop @
197
not at all. spelling and grammar, while important, pale in comparison to getting a point across precisely and without wasted motion. and the net is a more unforgiving medium in this regard as well. you really would have had a far more effective piece at half the length, and one that would more likely have a real chance at getting done what you want done. your point that one has to pound things home over and over is right and wrong–yes in terms of volume of attempts to get power to listen, but no in terms of how long you are spending on each individual attempt.
looseheadprop @
200
Anytime!!
YOU ARE FANTASTIC!!!
I’d love to see this an NYT times ad and I’d be willing to send some money for that when my SS check comes on the 28th.
For those interested in the impeach 07 movement, go to BuzzWatch today and click on
handy dandy guide to impeaching in 2007. Sorry I lost the url info.
Blessings,
It is no political exaggeration to say that these events reach the standard of “high crimes and misdemeanors” in the strongest possible terms.
Thomas Jefferson said in the Declaration of Independence that the public will suffer a lot, while such crimes are sufferable, before they turn their government out of office. I think we have almost irreparable damage to the country and the fact that we do not yet feel it is no excuse to wait until the president’s term in office expires to start to put things right.
We have been right about so many things:
Bush was bad news in 2000. The fact that Cheney appointed himself as VP caused us concern. The fact that Bush/Cheney were appointed to the WH through the Supreme Court and Bolten instigated shenanigans alarmed us.
Then there was the California energy crisis. We suspected the corporate friends of the GOP were taking advantage of deregulation loopholes. We were right.
Then 9/11 happened and we saw the president fail to rise to the occasion. We saw the Nationa Security Advisor’s “failure of imagination”. We were shocked by the lackadaisical response to the warnings. We felt there needed to be a strong investigation. We got the 9/11 commission instead.
Then there was the Patriot Act. We felt they were giving away the store, that our civil rights were in jeopardy, that we were creating a police state. Then we found out they were bugging our phone calls.
Then there was the IWR. We didn’t see convincing evidence. We predicted the sectarian violence. We urged our Congress to vote no. We went to war anyway and now have a disaster.
We saw a CIA covert operative and national security asset exposed. We suspected malfeasance at the highest levels. We got no coverage and no investigation.
We knew they would subvert the law someday. We saw the start of something unsavory with Ashcroft. Now we know that the justice department was used against Democrats and for Republicans.
We have been right again and again. We aren’t crazy. We are just more informed than most. So, if we predict that our nation is now more in danger from outside forces than before, that our foreign policy is in shambles, that our military is broken, that we are in debt up for many generations to come and on the verge of a collapse in our housing market, that we are in danger of a two class social system with a severely crippled middle class and that our police state is becoming a menace to freedom and democracy, can we please get the House of Representatives to do something before we become a burnt out cinder of a once powerful and prosperous country?
They have 22 more months left to wreck havoc. That is too long to let the criminals run amok on our Constitution.
emptywheel @ 122
Let me guess: He didn’t?
Robert Green—
I disagree with your main point. The posts here cover difficult situations that the traditional media are refusing to cover. We are serious, but busy and amateur journalists who are trying to piece together the real story.
If that leads to long posts, it works for us.
I like looseheadprop’s work exactly the way it is.
Mr. Green,
You may be right. Let’s see how things turns out.
I would, however, be interested to see how you would propose to edit it down. I have much to learn.
stingray @ 206
Let me guess: He didn’t?
That’s what we want to know. but there is the rpoblem of the sand in eyes and all that
EG, thanks for the defense.
What are you doing back here in EPU land?
looseheadprop @ 210
Playing rugby ;)
Mr. Green,
I respectfully disagree with your premise that the letter was too long. You provide no sample of your proposed edit, so it is difficult to see what you imagine a more persuasive paragraph to look like. When printed in standard form, it is 3 and 1/4 pages long. The purpose of this letter is to inform and persuade. It is more of an essay in letter format.
I find this letter flows nicely. A highly edited essay might look more like a propaganda piece if it does not contain a fair measure of anaylsis. Effective, persuasive writing sweeps the reader up and compels them to ride along with the argument. It is a joureny that reader and writer take together to reach a mutual destination. Conversely, an argument that is too conclusory may only push the reader to a conclusion in which he or she shares no stake.
In Summation, Show me what you got Mr. Green. And if it is as persuasive as this letter, I will send it to Ms. Pelosi too.
lhp:
that was eloquent, and with just the right tone.
as far as editing is concerned i have just one tiny quibble: after “you cannot shirk this burden” a period, not a comma. Then, “This burden came with your new role as Speaker.” So, unlike Mr. Green, I would not take anything out but, au contraire, indulge in a wee bit of repetition. But we southerners do like our rhetorical flourishes.
thank you, again, for a beautiful piece of writing. it would take me a week to do as well if, even then, i managed to do so.
I did not ask her to impeach. I asked her to stand down from the “impeahment is off the table”. That’s all. it is a very ,imited letter
Fair enough. Selectively investigate the most egregious cases of corruption and maladministration. That should reveal lots of evidence for prosecutors to digest and for voters to consider. It also sets the bar for those Democrats who like it warm and comfy rather than straight up. Like those voting Not to correct the serial failures of the Army Corps of Engineers.
I do not take “… impeachment is off the table …” to mean that she would never consider impeaching Bush, anyone who listens to Nancy talk about Bush must be tone deaf not to hear the contempt she has for him.
What “… off the table …” meant was she did not have impeachment foremost on the agenda. This way, the other side cannot prove that she came into office predisposed to impeaching Bush.
The Dems must be working with attorneys from ACLU and ABA to gather enough evidence for prosecuting Bush & Co. This will take time, and will reach a head next spring & summer, just in time for the election campaign ;-) With Chuck Shumer & Rahm Emmanuel orchestrating the show, this is very likely.
What I would like to see is ongoing litigation even after they have been removed from office, resulting in imprisonment and foregoing their wealth.
Yeah, I know … I’m a dreamer. Did anyone catch Real Time with Bill Maher last Friday? He did a fantastic piece in his “NEW RULES” about what Americans have sacrificed for this war.
Way off topic, but Canada might be in an election soon, mind if we borrow Shumer & Emmanuel to counter our rising neocons up here?
perris @179 ???
I did put in the link, so I’m not sure what you mean. ??
It’s not a matter of “where clinton transferred presidential discretion onto the vice president” anymore than it is a matter of where clinton transferred presidential discretion onto the head of the CIA, so I don’t understand what you mean.
The power of the Executive to classify (to the extent that it has that power) is exercised in the underlying EO by Clinton, which was then modified under a separate EO by Bush (and Clinton’s, for that matter, superceded a prior longstanding EO on classification).
There is no delegation of presidential discretion anywhere. But Clinton, in a clarification of his EO and NOT AS an EO (so it is often overlooked) further spelled out who has classification powers under his EO. That was my link.
Declassification powers devolve from classification and supervision/superiror officer status, under both the older Clinton order and the BUsh order. The Bush order is the first appearance of the reference to VP directly in an ExecOrder, but Clinton’s Exec Order had been modified to incorporate the Vice President.
Read the orders linked already and my link, which is the between step, and you should be able to follow.
If you are saying that I am arguing that Clinton gave away all discretion to the VP, I am not, but neither can you argue that Bush’s order does that either. It is relatively similar to Clinton’s and the language “in the execution…” might even be read to say that it is more limited than Clinton’s language re: the VP.
-uh, mrgreenjeans 194 – as in envy?
prolix?
stop it?
NO!
aw whadda i know… *g*
Petrocelli @
214
edited to remove the words of others as the previous post (214) had my post running into the back of someone else’s … not that there’s anything wrong with that …
I do not take “… impeachment is off the table …” to mean that she would never consider impeaching Bush, anyone who listens to Nancy talk about Bush must be tone deaf not to hear the contempt she has for him.
What “… off the table …” meant was she did not have impeachment foremost on the agenda. This way, the other side cannot prove that she came into office predisposed to impeaching Bush.
The Dems must be working with attorneys from ACLU and ABA to gather enough evidence for prosecuting Bush & Co. This will take time, and will reach a head next spring & summer, just in time for the election campaign ;-) With Chuck Shumer & Rahm Emmanuel orchestrating the show, this is very likely.
What I would like to see is ongoing litigation even after they have been removed from office, resulting in imprisonment and foregoing their wealth.
Yeah, I know … I’m a dreamer. Did anyone catch Real Time with Bill Maher last Friday? He did a fantastic piece in his “NEW RULES” about what Americans have sacrificed for this war.
Way off topic, but Canada might be in an election soon, mind if we borrow Shumer & Emmanuel to counter our rising neocons up here?
elef @ 192
I think the problem is that the IIPA calls for standards too tight to avoid reasonable doubt, and the Espionage Act has standards so broad that employing it opens a can of nematodes in terms of justifying why it shouldn’t be used in many, many other cases.
In that regard, I have very mixed feelings about the Larry Franklin/A*P*C case brought under the Espionage Act. Happy to see neocons caught in the screws for once, but those screws are a slippery slope, greased with gander sauce, if you follow the mixed greens of my metaphor.
Ok,
Way off topic, but, I didn’t raise it.
Does any one know if Fitz played rugby for Harvard in 1984? That was the year they won the collegiate championship.
Robert Green @
194
Hmm, The Declaration of Independence probably didn’t meet your criteria either.
The nice thing about blogging is that you get to say everything you want to say *without* an editor. I rarely post anything that doesn’t need editing. I’m never satisfied with what I have written. all of my comments/diaries could stand to be pared, rephrased and reprioritzed. But lhp has written a sample letter to Pelosi that makes a lot of good points. We can all write similar letters in our own voice and we can fish through the comments section to find points that support our arguments and make them stronger.
This isn’t a newspaper. It is something far richer than that. This is a community of people working together to keep important stories from dying. It is part of the netroots that is using the right of free speech to make government accountable. It may not be your cup of tea but we like it.
LHP,
marvelous letter!
Violating anonymity, a canon of blogdom, is a choice. You are LHP (so clever and offbeat as a moniker) but WTF? You’re writing to Pelosi with credentials! Send it to her by snail mail and sign your real name! WTF!? Get serious!
She won’t honestly respond, but at leat she’ll realize the profound FDL crew is on her. And she may suppport you, but can’t say it now. Perhaps she’s waiting for Waxman to do shock and awe to arouse the public and MSM, then impeachment, which the Senate would not condone, will be demanded.
Skilly @ 219
Pat played undergrad rugby at Amherst. I don’t know if Harvard Law even had a team from 82-85.
WOW!
Oh, I would pony up $20 if someone starts a collection for a NYT ad.
I’ve been toying with acronyms for a grassroots organization to light a fire under the Dems on impeachment. Best I could come up with so far is Back on Our Table — Impeachment, or BOOT-IM!
conniptionfit at 6. If Christy’s advice doesn’t work, (especially if you get that on other sites), you have to adjust your automatic fill in prefrences. That’s browser dependent, but it’s not hard. The autolog in is held in a special cookie (file). You can (on mozilla and Opera) specifiy that those autologin cookies are deleted.
If you leave yourself logged on, I’d get into the habit of logging off. It can save all sorts of grief.
Finally, if you’re using windows, make a user for your daughter, and one for you. One where she can’t see or change your settings.
Luck!
Thanks, lhp and ralphbon. It seemed like such a straightforward idea – that Libby, Armitage and Rove were self-confessed leakers, and therefor could be indited for outing Plame. Oh, well – maybe Congress can do something about the Leakers-in-chief.
Wow!
Where do I sign?
PEACH
presidential excesses actionable as constitutional harm
Yea, yea, I know. Way EPU’d but …
LHP in your post last week I didn’t do very well in articulating that I think/know(?) that Fitz is still holding some very interesting hole cards; what got me thinking again was your post on Sat. when you mentioned Spook, which started the old hamsters in my head to start to spin again, which caused me to remember this post from Spook … scroll down to “Mystery #2″
There’s something there.
Fitz knows something.
Here’s more of a full quote of the opinion from Judge Hogan
I really think Fitz knows something but doesn’t feel he can prosecute without more than enough evidence because of who’s in his crosshairs.
Fitz knows that Libby knows something that will lead to someone higher up, and he’s just gotta let time turn the screws on Libby.
Maybe this mystery got covered in the trial and I missed it, but, I smell a there there
I have emailed LHP’s open letter to my Congressman Lloyd Doggett and asked him to deliver it to speaker Pelosi for me.
This is a really great letter, IMO, except for one thing: recycling that complaint about her “off the table” remarks. That remark, originally made in May ‘06, was obviously an attempt to keep the focus on issues that would be winners for the Democrats, and away from issues that would be losers for them, in the mid-term election. Then when she took over as Speaker, it would be extremely unseemly for HER to appear to be leading the charge. Remember, when Bush and Cheney are impeached and removed (you do want to impeach them BOTH, don’t you?) she’s next in line for the presidency.
Impeachment is absolutely necessary if we are to retreat from the brink of having a totalitarian government, and to restore some kind of representative democracy. So how is that going to happen, and what should we be doing to further it? I propose that beating up Pelosi over that silly phrase is useless. Impeachment will happen when these oversight hearings bring out so much undeniable wrongdoing that the entire nation is ready to say “Enough!” Then it won’t even be a partisan impeachment, Republicans will join in because their constituents demand it…as it happened with Nixon. So it’s up to us to keep the pressure on, write letters of support to all the chairs of all the committees that are doing oversight hearings, keep de-spinning the public discourse wherever we can, write our own reps, and yes even write Pelosi letting her know how we feel. Eventually a tidal wave of disgust and outrage is going to wash this “Gang Who Couldn’t Shoot Straight” out of the White House.
And if you think that Pelosi isn’t already doing her part, I suggest that you aren’t paying attention. Right now oversight IS the Democratic agenda in Congress, and that is exactly what’s going to get us there. Also, did you see the video clips she posted on her own blog: all the key parts of the Waxman hearings from Friday, plus his letter to the White House. She’s keeping the pressure on. So should we all.
PS, I do live in San Francisco, but not in her district. My rep is Tom Lantos.