
Nowhere in the coverage of Victoria Toensing’s testimony before Congress, where she echoed the same old defamatory smears against the Wilsons, could I find any mention that Toensing had argued substantially the same points two years earlier – as a lawyer representing Fox News, ABC, CBS, NBC and CNN, and just about every other major news organization.
Toensing, along with Baker & Hostetler, drafted an amicus brief backing Judith Miller’s and Matt Cooper’s efforts to avoid testifying. The brief argued that “there is ample evidence on the public record to cast considerable doubt that a crime has been committed.” Any law student can tell you this puts the cart before the horse. Grand juries are gathered to determine whether a crime has been committed. Since grand jury proceedings are secret, Toensing was obviously ignorant of the evidence being reviewed.
The brief never proffered any bona fide evidence. No judge would rely on the esteemed Washington Times, using anonymous sources who claimed Mrs. Wilson’s identity was first disclosed in the mid-1990's, as evidence. It’s clearly hearsay, inadmissible at trial. No judge would rely on Robert Novak’s claim that the CIA “failed to give him a serious request not to publish her name” as the basis for pre-empting a grand jury investigation.
The brief cited the usual red herring – Joseph Wilson publicly spoke about his travels to Niger on behalf of the CIA, as if that somehow that made his wife’s CIA-status an open secret and somehow newsworthy. So, ”there should be abundant concern that the CIA may have initiated this investigation out of embarrassment over revelations of its own shortcomings.” Huh? Judges aren’t stupid. They know the difference between fanciful speculation and real evidence.
Nor were Baker & Hostetler and 36 major news organizations stupid. No one expected the brief to affect the outcome of the case. But the filing enabled the Washington Post to report, “The 40-page brief [15 pages of substantive text], … argues that there is ‘ample evidence . . . to doubt that a crime has been committed' in the case.” And, ”Attorneys for the news organizations said yesterday that their decision to submit the brief underscores deep concern in the journalism community over special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald's tactics.”
In the interest of brevity, neither the ”ample evidence” nor the prosecutors ”tactics” were specified. The unstated truth was the brief had no legal basis; it was merely an attempt to neutralize the Wilsons in the media before the day of reckoning arrived. In 2007, let’s not forget that no one from the mainstream media has totally clean hands.
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FITZ!
JUSTICE!!!
Dammit egregious, you’re just too fast!
I was out of town for a few days, missed all of the hearings.
So what’s next as far as the civil case is concerned? (And my apologies if that’s already been answered)
Fitz! Marcy!
Tom Davis!KestrelBrighteyes @ 2
I have the Sight. Not always a welcome gift.
This is a great post.
Conflict of interest.
Just one more dollop of whipped cream on top.
Make sure somebody at American Lawyer Magazine sees this one.
And alla those people brung us the wars.
*&^%$#– nope, can’t listen to Ritter, Blix, Wilson or ANYONE with a brain.
nuh-uh.
egregious @ 4
*makes sign of the cross with forefingers*
BACK! BACK, I say!
Tweety lashing Andy Card: “Chimpy is the decider, but never to blame?”
The response is predictable…
Kestrel—
The sign of the cross has only a beneficial effect on me: I am a Christian. I think of the Sight as a spiritual gift from God.
Nice try.
BWAHAHAHAHA
Fairly soon this administration is going to run out of fall guys. With Gonzales almost historical, perhaps they already have.
I just heard on Iowa public radio that Valerie Plame Wilson had to cancel out as special speaker at an event next week due to ongoing unresolved legal issues. Joseph Wilson will be speaking in her place.
Is it the CIA preventing her from speaking? Issues from her own civil suit or Libby’s trial? Anyone care to hazard a guess?
newtonusr @ 8
I saw that. What a riot.
looseheadprop @
5
Fiderer has done great work on this story. I think he raises some extremely interesting questions regarding her relationship to the WaPo and others.
This is why the USAttorneys scandal makes for better TradMed — they aren’t entwined with the firings story. Libby’s felonies were always awkward for them, not knowing (still!) what might be exposed about their fellow wienie-eaters and wienie-servers. TradMed’s hands are (relatively) clean on AbuGate, so they are making the most of it — even genuflecting to TPM for staying on top of the story.
Victoria and hubby. This is what passes for smart Republicans?
A note on terminology – instead of “mainstream media”, I suggest the term “corporate media” – because they are, in fact, right-wing authoritarian media.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 10
like pulling out the keystone, methinks
Don’t want to toot my own horn, but I have made the main point of this post several times, including twice earlier today……
Oklahoma kiddo @ 15
Besides them, who do you have, Dan Quayle?
Odd as it seems, I wonder if BushCo’s current flailings are due to Harriet’s departure.
I don’t see how she gets any lawyering done in the first place, she is always flapping her gums on the tee vee.And talk about odious, that little performance in front of Waxman was awful.She tries to talk in circles but trips on her own talking points.
DBaker @
18
It was, for example, #128 at scarecrow’s post this morning.
Victoria Tonsillectomy is, alas! nothing but a worn-out whore to the politically powerful in the GOP and their fellow travellers. The sight and sound of her testifying before Henry Waxman were like fingernails and teeth being dragged across a blackboard mixed with the sounds of an entire fraternity ralphing after a toga party. It will take generations to clean up the mess she and her ilk helped create. What fresh and special hell will be carved out for them, I wonder?
Wow. Never knew about that connections. Thanks for the post and the digging, David.
Time to take a look at the amicus brief. Anyone have a cite?
TeddySanFran @
14
I had the same thought, only from the standpoint of certain democrats in the senate. As compromised and craven as they have been on Iraq and other issues, Feinstein and Schumer have really swung for the fences on this one.
Is she associated with the Libby Defense Fund?
btw check out Libby Defense Fund for a snicker.
Bustednuckles @ 21
ChimpCo motto: “Just keep flappin’, and keep raising the volume.” Doesn’t matter what comes out, as long as oppo views are obscured.
Yep, you did. I knew she wrote an amicus brief, but missed that it was for the media group. Do you have a cite for the brief?
David Fiderer
remember that!
nice post
angie @
6
In fact, they summarily dismissed all of those that disagreed, ala Richard Clarke.
Yeah, even if you die you can’t leave Scooter’s Trust!
Toensing is simply a distraction. She’s throwing sand in the eyes of the public like Scooter did to the FBI and Fitz.
How else can one explain how anybody with a brain stem can try to make the case that giving money to a presidential candidate somehow reveals you are an undercover agent? It’s just a shower of nonsense.
She needs to be shot down, disbarred and then ignored as the wheels of justice roll forward.
OT – Thinkprogress just posted that Politico.com is reporting that the WH is looking for a replacement for Gonzales.
Also, McNulty is also getting the boot.
Fox reports that Republican insiders say it’s complicated because Gonzo is such a good buddy of the President, so GWB doesn’t really want to get rid of another “loyal Bushie”.
Scarecrow @
24
I read that thing cover to cover when it first came out. It is on Pat Fitzgerald’s site somewhere – I downloaded it at work when it first came out.
Dover Bitch @ 32
Here’s to Waxman and staff – she’s on record.
David Corn Corrects Victoria Toensing’s False Testimony to Congress
http://www.davidcorn.com/archi…..lawyer.php
After he corrects the record, David sends this sweet little Valentine to Toensing:
“As a lawyer, Toensing is probably aware that knowingly making a false statement to a congressional committee conducting an investigation or review is a federal crime. (See Title 18, Section 1001 of the U.S. Code.) The punishment is a fine and/or imprisonment of up to five years. To say that I identified Valerie Wilson as a “covert” officer is to make a false statement.”
Cartoon idea for the artistically talented
Valerie Plame is standing outside of a house, holding a newspaper in one hand with the headline, “CIA: Plame Covert”, and her other hand raised to the door.
Inside the house sit Boris and Natasha. Boris is reading a copy of the same paper.
He says, “Victoria, there’s a kNOCk at the door.”
carmen @
11
When the hell does she get to start talking as freely as Larry Johnson or Bob Baer, and others that are now former CIA, like Tyler Drumheller?!! If this is not discrimination as punishment, I don’t know what is.
Nowhere in the coverage of Victoria Toensing’s testimony before Congress, where she echoed the same old defamatory smears against the Wilsons, could I find any mention that Toensing had argued substantially the same points two years earlier…
Nowhere? You ought to be reading Just One Minute:
However, there is a certain in-the-tank quality to the media not even noting there previous stance on this.
The media and the Bush Administration have “you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours” relationship.
Cheney et al would leak to Judy Miller who would write a story that Cheney would wave on Meet the Press on Sunday saying see even the New York Times believes this.
The Toensing amicus brief is the reverse of this. Here an extension of the Administration writes a brief defending Judy’s shilling for the Administration which the media can then cite saying, see the person who “wrote” the law says there was no crime.
This is a very good post. I was unaware of the brief and the collective interest of the MSM to file it “together.” Thank you.
Now I have a better understanding as to why the MSM has such a strong wingnut bias on this issue. (I’m still as pissed as hell at them, mind you, but at least I have a more complete perspective.)
will someone please explain the moniker
‘TradMed’?
The unstated truth was the brief had no legal basis; it was merely an attempt to neutralize the Wilsons in the media before the day of reckoning arrived.
Neutralize the Wilsons? Nonsense – the agenda was to avoid being subpoenaed and jailed. As you note, this amicus brief was part of the Miller-Cooper appeal.
Reflect – the press loved the David v. Goliath, truth-teller v. BushCo Wilson story; they hated going to jail and giving up sources. Motive, motive, motive.
Freddy el Desfibradddoro @
16
It took me quite a while to finally figure out what Teddy meant by TradMed; it would probably take me an equal amount of time to figure out CorpMed. MSM is easier to type.
dmac @ 42
Traditional Media.
Shock and awe seems to work both ways … in a lot of places.
carmen @ 11
What about her appearence in NY this weekend with Keith?
Tom Maguire,
You wrote, immediately after Plame’s testimony, that she denied any “involvement” in the decision to send Wilson to Niger.
You omitted the totality of her testimony in this regard, while criticizing media outlets for similar transgressions as you rated them on their treatment of that issue.
It’s no longer on the site. It was also linked via wikipedia, but no longer.
If you will e-mail me at the address provided (I assume that you are part of the hiearchy here, I will e-mail the pdf file so that you can post it here.
It really truly is a piece of crap, with circular logic and pages and pages of filler to make it a lot more seem a lot more scholarly than it really is.
[Mod Note; please do not requote more than once, or if you truly must, twice. Thanks]
david f -
nicely argued.
“..it was merely an attempt to neutralize the wilsons.”
that’s the heart of the matter. and that’s why toensing looked like a kid caught lying when congresswoman watson persisted in asking her about whether plame was covert or not.
toensing’s answer (in brief and in summary):
not by the particular meaning i attach to “covert”.
she then went on to engage in a little time-wasting, but very revealing, hocus pocus about her special meaning of “covert” re the law she helped fashion (in the ’80’s ?)regarding the public disclosure of a spy’s identity -
until watson recalled her (watson’s) time and continued with another revealing question to toensing.
Rahm Emanuel. On Hardball. Telling us how it is?
ot, sorry but abu torture news…I personally am surprised, I thought the president would be forced to ride abu to the end, I guess not
think progress;
linkerage
ok hi kiddo at 10
do you mean hysterical instead of historical????????????
O.T.- 3/19 Guardian Unlimited online story is a sad commentary by an average Iraqi on U.S. v. Saddam governance:
“The Regrets of the Man Who Brought Down Saddam”
Chertoff. God help us.
LS @ 55
My sentiments exactly.
Par for the course.
They never announce a resignation until the replacement has been found, as per Rummy. I suspected that is what is holding it up.
As well as the fact that the SCOTUS looked at Toensing’s amicus brief and said, “thank you very much, but no,” and compelled Miller to testify. I gotta believe that when this SCOTUS tells a right winger that they’re full of crap, they are really full of crap.
;0)
Maybe that D.C. Madam story will break and catch a bunch of these guys.
LS @ 55
And Ted Olsen? God really help us!
They should not be confirmed.
about the Abu Gonzales story – interesting how the admin leaks to Politico.com that they are shopping for a new AG and deputy at precisely the moment when they’re doing a massive document dump on the topic.
I smell something… it seems to be a mix of panic and chicanery.
I’ll try to find out more about it.
dmac @ 42
Traditional Media
From Rahm to Duncan on “Hardball”. Is this great television or what?
Clearly Boris and Natasha are ideal replacements for Abu as he’s pointed toward the door marked “Exit.”
ann in AZ@30 sez In fact, they summarily dismissed all of those that disagreed, ala Richard Clarke.
Did you know that Richard Clarke is personal friends with Judy Miller? She (& her husband, I think) was at his booksigning in NYC a couple of years ago. I told him I had heard on the radio that morning that she was a friend of his, but wished she hadn’t come to the signing. (She was standing behind all the chairs.) He was speechless but the BnN rep who was standing beside the signing table sputtered that everyone should be free to come. Anyhow, I made my point and haven’t liked Clarke much since. His book–a silly spy thriller involving Saudi Arabia with a totally implausible ending–further lowered my opinion. He peaked out with his apology at 9/11 Commission hearings. Such a waste.
Senate Dems should be very careful of to whom they give their Constitutionally required consent. A thorough vetting as to the candidate’s ability to prosecute even handedly and go after Rethug corruption should be front and center. Perhaps a question like, “Will you be willing to investigate wherever evidence leads you? If evidence implicated, say Karl Rove, in commiting a crime by leaking classified information, are you willing to follow that evidence, investigate and indict if neccessary?”
carmen @
11
Could be the civil suit, too, which is coming up?
Sorry I’m late: welcome, David!
Thanks. I’ve been scrambling about, looking for transcripts, video, even confirmation that it actually happened… We may know in 5 minutes.
I’m on it. I have a call in to the radio station and will report back as soon as they call. Feel like a cub reporter.
So the WH is searcing for a successor to Alberto. Loyalty? If I were you Karl, I’d be worried. Like… really worried.
“You have no idea… how bad it is here.”–Justice Dept. official. This latest is “note” at the bottom of TPM docudump story that links to USNews story. And TPM says, given the chaos at Justice, shouldn’t hold our breath waiting for documents either–now at least one hour behind schedule.
Part of the problem is that the “Bushies” at Justice don’t know how to form a strategy because they don’t know how to talk to each other when they have to turn in all their documents. Kind of like Tony Snow saying “I’m not going to be a fact witness here…”
The good news in the story is that they seem to realize that any new AG candidate–and they’re searching–is going to have to get past a Democratic congress. So no “Heckuva Job” Chertoff, I don’t think.
Rove is toast. He’ll be pursuing other interests soon.
LS @ 60
I think I saw that court restrained her from selling list, but same astricle mentioned the list was already out. Can;t remember where I saw it so don’t take my word.
However, aren’t these kind of guys the ones who look for more varied recreation outside their own BRs? Who is the DC Sanchez?
dmac @ 42
Traditional Media
Oklahoma kiddo @ 75
From your mouth to God’s ear. Hope it’s not just wishful thinking.
Woohoo! Carmen, intrepid citizen journalist!
looseheadprop @
5
I wonder why they haven’t been screaming about conflict of interest from the get-go, since it’s known that she represented Scooter Libby?
Breaking News!!! Karl Rove to replace Gonzales and will shortly be knighted as Sir Rovealot by King Richard and Crown Prince George.
tsf @20
she definitely added structure to him………..only so many things holding the straw man up………one by one, being taken down…….interesting……..see what happens…….i’m watchin’
Reports of Rove’s death have been greatly exaggerated.
That’s what I’m afraid of.
[Mod Note; please requote only once, or if must be, twice. Thanks]
The powers in the WH have concluded Rove must go. This, ‘they’ believe, will satisfy the sharks.
Sorry about earlier, Mr. Mod, I was searching the Internets for the brief and pushed post before looking at the “blockquote” code.
Anyhoo, I find it fascinating that this brief appears to have been scrubbed from the public Internets altogether. I’ll just have to look to Westlaw or PACER or check my computer at work for it. Credit where credit is due, I read about it on Just One Minute when it first came out.
LHP, you still out there from last thread? I can’t cut thru the clutter of the ABC website to find the name of ABC’s new legal expert.
Maybe somebody on the West Coast can watch this evening’s broadcast for the 30ish woman with the 3-word name who tells Charlie Gibson about the Dems creating apparent scandals…. unless they’ve done a quick edit from the East Coast feed.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 85
If true, which I doubt, wouldn’t the opposite be the case? Wouldn’t blood in the water embolden Ds?
DBaker @
86
And it’s still there. I just downloaded it from JOM.
The crawl on tweety’s program says Theodore Olsen is being considered as a replacement for Gonzales. That should be reassuring that the Justice Department will become non-political… Ha-ha-ha.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 85
I thought Karl was one of the powers. Who else is there?
Dick and the Bush family.
wasabi @ 90
Maybe they hope that Olsen would get thru confirmation on sympathy vote.
Off topic, I just read Norm Chomsky’s Failed State. It sort of made me want to crawl in a hole and give up, but luckily there is a ray of hope, the blogosphere, (which somehow reminds me of the WWII French Underground)…
Prairie Sunshine @ 87
Jan Greenberg
I’m looking at the DOJ Fitzgerald site, and I can’t find the amicus brief. Still looking (IANAL).
“embolden Ds”? My party? Now that is a novel concept.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 75
Save us!
Soltz sez, on KO, that the world looks at Condi “as a war princess.”
From the news orgs’ amicus brief, p.5:
Looks familiar.
wasabi @ 90
Who on the planet thinks this Senate would confirm such a sleaze?
OTOH, RGJoe, Salazar, Bachus, Nelson & Nelson, Mary L… we’re fucked.
ls @60i think
i am not a gossip by doctrine, but i am SO HOPING that list gets published, oh i am so hoping that list gets published…………lip lick.
yeah, i know it’s crude, i’m way prudent in every other area……..but this one i hope comes out………set everyone as equals, prudish harlequins set equal……….find out what the game is, and set it straight……..i’m waitin’ for that…….
Oklahoma kiddo @ 97
Fair enough.
Just now on Countdown, new moniker for Rice: War Princess.
You’ve probably understated the significance of this:
“…The unstated truth was the brief had no legal basis; it was merely an attempt to neutralize the Wilsons in the media before the day of reckoning arrived….”
It was more than simply an attempt to neutralize — it was trying to lay ground for the current, illogical, claim of ‘no crime’.
The Plame outing was PREMISED from its inception on the Bu$hCo assumption that no member of the US press would ever, under any circumstances, reveal their ‘confidential sources.’ When (under legal pressure) the press finally did reveal sources, it became obvious that the WH and OVP intentionally, methodically leaked Plame’s ID.
A crime may be committed, yet not prosecuted = true.
Plame was outed = true.
Plame’s outing was criminal = true.
Plame’s outing was not prosecuted = true.
To accept Toensing’s argument is to believe that: ALL crimes are always and everywhere prosecuted. But we know that to be false.
Her intellectual dishonesty needs to be exposed. She’s embarrassing.
Pectopah @ 37
hehe
OT from the last post, sorry. But I have to say it. Speaking of aiding and abetting the enemy and feeding right into their hands… Isn’t Cheney doing just that by weakening our homesoil defenses? They’ve always used the Tai Chi approach. Just sayin’
Scarecrow
this looks like the Amicus Brief (PDF!) link
Amicus Brief
included in this article by David Fiderer
Judy Miller’s 8 Bogus Arguments
Brel1 @ 94
I absolutely adore Mr. Chomsky. ;0)
Noam Chomsky tells the truth.
He’s worth listening to.
So does Juan Cole, John Nichols, Howard Zinn, Jane Hamsher, Katrina Vanden Heuvel, Jimmy Carter, Robert Fisk, etc.
@ 76..IIRC TMZ got the records gratis.
eCAHNomics @ 103
I am looking at it. Thanks. ;0)
Miss P, “They’ve always used the Tai Chi approach?” Explain, please. Push hands? Cloud hands? White bird stretches wings?
Miss P. @ 106
Yes. The Republicans like to say “we’re fighting the terrorists over there so we don’t have to fight them over here.”
In reality, we’re sending billions of dollars and underequipped and overworked soldiers to die over there so we can’t defend our borders here.
Bush & Cheney have done exactly what the terrorists wanted – they got us bogged down in a costly middleeastern war and turned world opinion against us. More Americans die and our country becomes broke and weak. Heckuva job, Bush and the “loyal Bushies”.
angie @ 109
To the head of Prof. Chomsky’s class w/you. ;0)
Whatever happened to the document dump ? Not seeing any updates at Josh or anywhere else
Jeb or Neil Bush of AG! It’s been done before.
DBaker @49:
This should be good. Is it possible to convey flapping with words?
cbl @ 115
Just out.
cbl @ 115
Olberman said they’ve been delivered & they may be able to report on some before the show’s over–but more likely tomorrow morning.
thanks newtonusr !
waving to Mommybrain !
cbl @ 115
Keith Olbermann just said it is happening a few minutes ago and said we might hear some details within the hour.
Patience. :)
Craig Crawford on KO alluding to another DoJ scandal not yet unwrapped, in which career civil service prosecutors were subject to a litmus test for promotion by political appointees…
Mommybrain @ 112
:) Our freedom to travel, our planes, our fuel, our tall buildings. The approach is simply to use your opponents strength against him. Or her.
angie @ 109
Oh I like Ms. Vanden Heuvel and President Carter, Arianna and the rest!… kiddo.
I don’t believe it! Michael Chertoff being considered a possible replacement for Gonzo per Keith. Going from the frying pan into the fire!
FYI, US News has dribbled out a tidbit:
Exclusive: E-mail Shows Internal Rift At Justice Over Firings
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/b…..eating.htm
eCAHNomics @
93
I want someone to ask him if he’s a “loyal Bushie.”
Stuck at work all day and away from the toobz – so Abu still has a job, I take it? For however briefly?
Ann in AZ @ 125
That would perhaps be mildly delicious. No?
Instead of playing into Toensign arguement that Plame doesn’t fit the legal definition of covert, why not use Rove’s stategy of criticizing Toensign strength?
Toensing’s claim to fame is she drafted the IIPA law, so…
Victoria, why did you draft such an obscure law – do you hate America or love its enemies?
Victoria, why is it that only once in 25 years has it been used sucessfully to prosecute someone – are you afraid it will die from lack of use?
Victoria, is the IIPA the federal version of a stupid law – like in Ohio’s where it is illegal to fish for whales on Sunday.
Change the tactics to ridiculing Toensign for having written a crock of crap
Previous question: “This should be good. Is it possible to convey flapping with words?”
Nevermind. I hadn’t gotten to Scarecrow @ 100 when I asked. Answered nicely there.
“Ready for takeoff!”
Ann in AZ @ 125
OH. MY. GOD!!!
How dare Valerie Plame claime that she was a covert agent for the CIA?
As Toensing might have pointed out, she was clearly seen walking along streets in Washington and elsewhere.
Any real covert agent for the CIA is required to wear a long trench coat, hat, and huge dark sunglasses, and they live in secret underground lairs which you enter through secret doors in the subway tunnels.
The uninformed might believe that what was covert about her was the fact that her official employer, Brewster Jennings, was in fact a CIA front company, but we know this isn’t true because one time I heard some Republican guy on some radio show or something say that ‘everybody’ knew about it.
Why not bring in one of the Gotti family to replace Alberto?
bz @ 36
We could start guessing who should room with whom in prison. That could be fun!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 129
If he were to get confirmed, I forever disown the Democratic Party! At least he’s a former judge, but he’s shown himself to be totally incompetent as a member of the Cabinet. What, is total incompetence now to become a job requirement for AGs?!!! I want him to be impeached, not appointed the chief law enforcement officer of the land!!!
All these names – they’re not even trial balloons. I expect they will float Ed Meese next, but he could be an actual pic…
Courage, Dem Senators – we’re still fucked.
cbl @
107
cbl – did the amicus link actually work for you? It didn’t for me. Nor did the URL’s linked to from the winger sites (the PDF URL for amicus brief 032305 has been changed or removed from Baker Law site); same with wikipedia, which links to Baker Law. I’ve been hunting for a working link for this thing for 20 minutes. Any help would be awesome. (I don’t think it’s a Firefox/Explorer issue – tried both, have Acrobat, etc…)
Gotta give some nice kudos to a classy John Kerry. He sent out an email to supporters today on the anniversary of the war – not to ask for money or to ask us to sign yet another goofy petition – but to thank us for being there, being against the war and voicing our opinions about it from the start.
A nice snippet:
We all could use a little encouragement right now, and this was a nice way to do it.
He’s right – you support the troops by getting the policy right. Here’s hoping that more members of Congress will join the cause to get it right.
Ann in AZ @ 136
You sound serious. And I couldn’t agree more.
Fiyero — go back through Tom’s link at #39 to get the pdf file.
Thanks Rob Zuber !
bwaahaaahaaa – this is Rove misleading the AG about Cummins’ performance so as to install his little buddy – this is Rove treating the AG like some gullible child
btw – am really starting to admire Chitra Ragavan – using real shoeleather, doing real digging
OK kiddo, all I can say is NNNOOOoooooo!!!
Lindy @ 96
Scarecrow @
89
Funny, I can’t find that Amici Curiae brief anywhere else; everybody from “No Easy Answers” to Wikipedia seem to have referred to the same link at bakerlaw.com for the PDF of the Amici Curiae brief — and the link is shot, no document there. I suspect we broke the bakerlaw.com link making so many calls at the same time for the document.
Anybody got Lexis/Nexis, and can we get a text copy of the brief to post at somebody’s site?
edit: the link at JOM is also shot, FYI.
eCAHNomics @ 116
Bingo.
“disown the Democratic party”? I’ve been on the verge for quite sometime.
Scarecrow -, all I did was mouse over it thinking it looked ok – sorry
it’s also disappeared from some SCOTUS related sites but that may be for archival reasons
http://www.digenovatoensing.co…..032305.pdf
This it?
cbl @ 107 – It could also be that we’ve bombed that server at Scarecrow @ 141
Thanks – got it (as a Word file) – at least it’s the 15 pages of “substantive text” – I guess the other 25 pages are all filler ;)
LS @ 145
I think you have to be a lawyer, and I don’t think either of those has a law degree. Correct me if I’m wrong, you lawyer types.
Bustednuckles @
21
I loved Tommy Yum’s ascertainment :
oops – editing error in my last comment. my bad. the link works for Tom’s link @39.
When I feel compelled to think bad when it comes to AG’s, Nixon’s John Mitchell is the yardstick I use.
I double Firedog dare them to nominate Chertoff ! – bet he’d decline just to avoid Congressional Scrutiny in the spotlight’
they might get away with Ted Olsen – but they’re gonna have to go with a Danforth/Hamilton/Keane type
That picture…those smug stares. “We’re so right. We’re so cool.” God I hate that attitude.
The Bushies are blamestorming as we speak..
Bay State Librul – 707!
A Bushie is a man who will double cross that bridge when he comes to it…
With apologies to Oscar Levant
Oklahoma kiddo @ 153
He should be. I think he’s the only one to be prosecuted and go to jail!
Ann in AZ @ 150..In Bush world anything is possible..The acting Surgeon General of the Army doesn’t have an MD degree.
The Bush family is plotting their next move.
Nice photo of Joe and the wife.
Ought to be a law against too much smugness.
Ann in AZ @ 159
I think you are right here. As usual.
Steve @ 160
Does he have an acting degree?
ding7777 @ 130
Hey, let’s get Oklahoma on that, too:
Speaking of whales, in Ohio you cannot do any whale fishing in any of the state’s lakes, streams, or rivers on Sundays. In Oklahoma, whale fishing is specifically banned any day of the week in the state’s inland waters.
Meanwhile, Ohio does have a sensible dynamite fishing law: In Ohio, fishing with explosives is illegal.
Oklahoma kiddo @
85
And who, pray tell, are the “powers at the White House,” other than Bush43? That phrase used to mean Karl Rove. It also used to refer to Abu Gonzo. Who’s left? Darth Cheney?
I think there’s going to be a fight to the death between Cheney and Rove. But we may not hear much about it until the body is spotted, perhaps in “an Undisclosed Location,” with a knife in his back.
The trouble is, they’re all co-conspirators. There’s gotta be a Rico case here somewhere.
Bob in HI
McCain just got second place for Worst Person in the World on Keith. Seems he couldn’t remember what his position was about whether condoms help to avoid AIDS. Just a touch of Alzheimers.
eCAHNomics @
116
They aren’t lawyers.
Ann in AZ @ 159
So far.
Toensing for AG.
HotFlash @ 164
I heard he bought one at Sears!
TeddySanFran @ 170
Gaaaahhhh!!!
I think the powers that be in the WH house include, but are not limited to, the corporations here, and abroad, (oil companies, Halliburton)) the Carlyle Group, and the Bush political dynasty.
Ann in AZ @ 150
you don’t have to be a lawyer to be a judge, do you?
Sorry, gang, I need to vent.
Oklahoma kiddo, I love ya, but unless you are actively participating in the Democratic Party locally and making a point of getting engaged and literally in the face of Representatives and Senators, you are part of the problem. You’ve not been there to walk away.
See my comments last night in Eli’s thread. You, me, WE are the Democratic Establishment; we have the Democratic officials we voted for and we have to hold them accountable. Bailing now means not holding them accountable; bailing now means one more vote for Republicans even if you don’t pull the lever since it’s a vote that won’t nullify one of theirs.
I don’t want to get pissy about it, but I am beginning to take it personally when you continue to make comments every single day about disowning a party that I don’t hear you actually doing anything to support. Meanwhile, I’m busting my chops giving 30 hours a week on average last year to try and turn it around, hanging at places where people like Jane and Marcy also put themselves almost utterly and completely on the line to get this ship righted. The last thing we really need is to be badmouthed and disowned as well if you really expect this grassroots effort to save this party and this country. If you have a beef with a particular member of the party, focus your anger on them and for God’s sake, actually take action about them, because when you badmouth the Democratic Party, you badmouth me and people like me.
/vent
As much as Lady MacBeth ever did. The MSM are in this thing hook line and sinker. I wonder what they think when movies are made about Eward R. Murrow. I wonder what they think when they hear Keith Olbermann’s righteous special comments only to have him end his night with the same sign off.
Did they go to journalism school to be lemmings? Is there a Lemming-101 class?
I wonder, when did they all decide to be so utterly disappointing; and to abdicate, so completely, any professional ethic or responsibility.
If A doctor sat and watched a person choke to death, would it be any more ethically desolate?
HotFlash @ 164.. The he would be a she..Maj. Gen. Gale Pollock.
eCAHNomics @ 169
Don’t forget Richard Kleindienst.
ding7777 @ 130
Yes. I agree. Especially the, “Why do you hate America.”
Then maybe she’ll admit she didn’t have so much to do with drafting it afterall.
Plus, she could be eligible under IIPA since she likely outed the name of her covert CIA client to the NYT. Wouldn’t that be poetic justice. Kind of like what got Guiotine in the end.
From ThinkProgress:
Justice Department documents released
Rayne @ 175
Well you have said a bit. And I certainly hear what you’re telling me. I respect that. Do want me to respond? ;0)
Steve @ 177
Thanks Steve. Just went and googled her. Looks like she is a pretty good actress:
“I know that your families and loved ones are affected by this event as well — please reassure them that the media makes money on negative stories not by articulating the positive in life — though that is something I will never understand.” (from Think Progress article.
Joe scar up with Rather and Jane?
Steve @ 160
Holy shit. I believe you – but do you have a linky?
What a great symbol for BushCare – the surgeon general who never went to med school. Oh – please – let the Acting SG’s bio show they once applied.
Then we have the Acting Surgeon General who couldn’t get into any medical school.
No wonder the Rethugs run against Hollywood: they’re jealous. The Rovians secretly want to be sitcom writers.
Who else would come up with this?
Henry Waxman is scheduled to be on Charlie Rose tonight. Check your local PBS stations or watch on Google (go to Charlie Rose’s homepage and click on the link). And, if you like the show, make sure to email Charlie thanking him for the coverage, ’cause hopefully there’ll be more to look forward to …
Rayne @ 175
Thank you for saying that. I’ve always felt the same when someone says things like that. I don’t have the eloquence, and I thought it was just me thinking that. Whew.
Rayne @ 175..I agree, If the Democratic party (as screwed up as at is) goes down; this country will be truly fucked. Work for change in the primaries. The third party talk is even worse..think Ralph Nader and the damage he has done.
ABC News:
More E-Mails in Fired U.S. Attorneys Controversy
Scarecrow…
Thank you for recalling Mr. Kleindienst to me. A real piece of work he. ;0)
ok kiddo
Quo
and just when you think it’s gotten bad…………..
Thanks, Rayne.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 181
You’re not obligated to respond if you don’t want to. I appreciate that you heard me.
And if it’s a case that we need to get you in touch with activists on the ground closest to you, I’d be glad to help.
Don’t get me wrong, there are people who desperately need to be spanked within the party ranks. Emmanuel, Liebermunch, Clinton, Hoyer, for starters. But these are specific individuals who are NOT the entire Democratic Party. Frankly, if the grassroots were up to full strength, healthy and participating fully at local level, these guys might not have had a chance to win a primary, or might have had to act like real Dems. But these are specific individuals and I am not about to cede to them my party for which I have worked so damned hard.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 180
about 2000 documents released. A very interesting note by ABC News (as reported by ThinkProgress:
How convenient that Gonzo doesn’t use email – less proof of what he knows & what he orders and approves.
(OT Arianna on Joe Scarborough, ripping on Bush’s war management. You tell ‘em, girl!)
David Addington……………..EW if you are here……..Mr.Unitary Presidency blech…..
Rayne @ 177..I saw that comment last week..and thought of all of the brain damaged, blind, multiplied amputated kids..What a piece of crap she is.
1,460 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizens oklahoma kiddo and Bob Schacht:
“I think there is gunna be a fight to the death between Cheney and Rove.”
News flash, that fight has been goin’ on since Scooter got his papers. It appears that things are speedin’ up faster than even a true Norseman ken keep a handle on. I believe that Darth Cheney is gunna go first (resign with “health” considerations) and Rove will be forced out after one or more subpoenaed appearances before one or more congressional committees…when that happens, the Chimpenfeurer will pardon the whole lot of ‘em goin’ back to Prescott Bush and resign. Then the Chimp will retire ta the ranch and tell us all ta “Bring it on, suckers”.
In the meantime Haliburton and the Carlyle folks will have relocated to Dubai and the United Arab Emirates after looting the stock market and the US treasury, the military will not have enough left ta send a PFC after their luggage and there will still be 125,000 mercenaries and contract workers in Iraq and Afghanistan.
And if ya come after me I’ll hitcha over the head with my tin hat…
Seriously though, I think we may see pardons and resignations like I described above and in the chaos the purps hope ta disappear into the Texas sunset.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE POPCORN!!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 189
Yeah, it was guys like him that convinced the California Bar Assoc to institute an “ethics exam” on the bar exam. They asked interesting questions about keeping your money separate from the client’s money, but had no way to measure your allegiance to the Constitution.
Re the Demo party issue, I used to share your frustration, but coming here made me realize that you can’t “disown” something if you haven’t made the effort to “own” it first. FWIW.
LandOfTheFree @ 193
You know, I thought that very same thing about Libby when he said he doesn’t use email much now.
Plausible deniability: how very Nixonian.
edit: Okay, show of hands, middle and upper managers only, especially those in government. How many of you DON’T use email or text messages?
Cripes, I have to hot glue my spouse’s Crackberry to the nightstand or he’d bring it to bed with him. I can’t imagine anybody in a position of authority not using email or text messaging.
I will continue to hold my party’s feet to the fire. Seems I recall someone once saying, not very long ago, that they “had my back on this”. Oh well, sometimes people forget and I suppose change their minds. And then I feel let down. But that’s the way of ‘things’. We all do what we have to do. ;0)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 181
I love both of you so much. 2 of my favorite pups.
Scarecrow at #178 says:
True, but Kleindienst was convicted of misdemeanor perjury and got a suspended sentence for it, whereas Mitchell “was found guilty of conspiracy, obstruction of justice, and perjury and sentenced to two and a half to eight years in prison for his role in the Watergate break-in and cover-up, which he dubbed the White House horrors.” per wiki
Oklahoma kiddo @ 140
Total incompetence is a job requirement for any position in the Bush administration except for the political dirty tricks division.
Over at politco, a commenter suggested Joe Lieberman for AG.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 199
OK, I still have your back. I spent half my week last week and half the week before on the phone and faxing Reps. and Senators’ offices to make things happen. I’ve spent more than a half dozen hours in meetings this month, attended a convention last month, doing my part to get this party back on its feet. But I AM the Democratic Party as much as anybody else is that’s doing the legwork. If we bail out now, we don’t stand a snowball’s chance in hell of stopping one of those moronic Republicans from taking back the Senate and possibly the White House as well.
Gads, and that doesn’t include the days of research I’ve done in the last several weeks on the USA dismissals…
Oklahoma kiddo @ 65
I wish I had cable. Some of this stuff I can’t bear to watch…or only in fits and starts, but some of it, I would love to see.
dmac @ 190
and just when you think it’s gotten bad…………..
Yeah, Gonzo’s certainly running up there with the big bad dogs now, isn’t he. He may well win the race with no fewer than three simultaneous scandals in the works at the moment.
Let me me be clear about this. I started voting the str8 Democratic ticket with McCarthy and McGovern. And I never looked back. I do what I can. I am dismayed with situations like the DLC, and people like Senator Clinton and Rahm Emanuel. And when I see stuff like this I will object. Right now I am trying to get my local Demo organization to endorse a letter of support for Al Gore for prez. Want to come down and help. It’s a daunting task. A real lot of fun.
Commentary on working within the system; ala Magnum Force
Rayne @ 204
I understand. ;0)
LandOfTheFree @ 193
Two Bush administration rules:
1. Never use email.
2. Always wear gloves.
1,460 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Rayne:
“…I am not about to cede them my party for which I have worked so damned hard.”
Yes indeed, don’t quit, don’t get mad…get even! I have been able to keep some semblance of sanity these last 6 years by workin
my tush off for the Democratic Party and we have been doin’ in our county what elected progressives are doin’ at the national level…hackin’ up and burnin’ the dead wood.
Now, when we are on the threshold of the biggest crisis in our country’s history, we can not concede the field to the corporatists jest when we have won a victory that has not yet been declared.
Hey Oklahoma kiddo, don’t quit and don’t compromise…ORGANIZE!! I know it’s been a long while since you folks have had a sane elected official represent Oklahoma in the congress (senate)…that’d be Fred Harris, remember him??!!
KEEP THE FAITH, DON’T COMPROMISE…ORGANIZE!!
Morris Sheppard @ 202
The only thing in memory that Bush has criticized KKKarl for is the fact that his dirty tricks didn’t win the past year’s elections for the GOP.
/blockquote>
Well you have said a bit. And I certainly hear what you’re telling me. I respect that. Do want me to respond? ;0)
I love both of you so much. 2 of my favorite pups.
I always fuck up the format of these, sue me
OK Kiddo – I hear you, and have thought about telling the Dem’s to go fuck themselves on numerous occasions. I had Patsy Madrid v. Heather Wilson, for fucks sake. We had that race and the party (and Madrid) lost it. Wilson DID NOT WIN, we lost it. If there was an alternative, I would have left at that point.
Rayne – you are totally right. I was hurt, pissed off and disillusioned, but needed to pull my head out of my ass (no offense OKK, this is just me). I had to get involved and change the way the party in NM works. The avaerage age of folks at local meetings in somewhere in the 70’s. I am far from young (37), but there has been ZERO participation in party poliics from my demographic, much less generation Y (or Z, whatever we are on).
The netroots have been an amazing opportunity to change local patry strategy, and that is where we need to be. Rahm Emmanuel and Howard Dean can do good, ut I can’t count on that. I want the school board, city council and the state lege back. We have the Congress for now, but without the local offices, we are not going to effect the level of chancge that we need to get our country back.
May be a rant, may not make a damn bit of sense, but there it is
lolo @200…
“I love both of you so much. 2 of my favorite pups.”
You’re wonderful. ;0)
NorskeFlamethrower @ 211
Fred Harris? Lord, I loved that man. ;0)
lolo @ 200
FUck the zig alerts, I second that in a big way. You 2 have brought me out of lurk status, and happy to be here
DBaker @ 86
I’m looking forward to seeing this brief, and keeping a copy of it. I have a rather extensive pdf collection :)
rayne
And if it’s a case that we need to get you in touch with activists on the ground closest to you, I’d be glad to help.
Don’t get me wrong, there are people who desperately need to be spanked within the party ranks. Emmanuel, Liebermunch, Clinton, Hoyer, for starters. But these are specific individuals who are NOT the entire Democratic Party. Frankly, if the grassroots were up to full strength, healthy and participating fully at local level, these guys might not have had a chance to win a primary, or might have had to act like real Dems. But these are specific individuals and I am not about to cede to them my party for which I have worked so damned hard.
one of the reasons why this site intrigues me so much is——the different viewpoints………….
standing in the alcove waiting for the gathering of people to hear peggy gish peace advocate who was in iraq speak…….hearing dems from my region talking to each other in the lobby, completely emabarrassing…….want nothing to do with them……what to do…..so i hold my own beliefs, talk to those i come in contact with…….and make change from my own front door……but organizing with my own dems here, no fucking way……..pretentious twits, want nothing to do with them, they cause more harm than good and don’t speak for me…….so i get the ok kiddo point of view—see what they’re sayin’ and ‘no go’ from here….where is the party that represents the people???????….so, where to go from here? well, as i see it, keep bein’ informed and look at change as the opportunity arises…….but caucasing with the dems here, nope………….freakaziods…….want no part of them………
1,460 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizens oklahoma kiddo:
Feel the love, brother, feel the love…I know it’s exhaustin’ but hang in there, Fred Harris didn’t live to see the folks that smeared ‘im brought to account, but you will be there to testify (so ta speak) on his behalf if ya don’t quit.
KEEP THE FAITH BROTHERS AND SISTERS AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THE BASTARDS AREN’T IN JAIL YET!!
dmac @ 218
one of the reasons why this site intrigues me so much is——the different viewpoints………….
standing in the alcove waiting for the gathering of people to hear peggy gish peace advocate who was in iraq speak…….hearing dems from my region talking to each other in the lobby, completely emabarrassing…….want nothing to do with them……what to do…..so i hold my own beliefs, talk to those i come in contact with…….and make change from my own front door……but organizing with my own dems here, no fucking way……..pretentious twits, want nothing to do with them, they cause more harm than good and don’t speak for me…….so i get the ok kiddo point of view—see what they’re sayin’ and ‘no go’ from here….where is the party that represents the people???????….so, where to go from here? well, as i see it, keep bein’ informed and look at change as the opportunity arises…….but caucasing with the dems here, nope………….freakaziods…….want no part of them………
is over-postig a sin?
dmac – change your local party, it can be done
readerOfTeaLeaves @
104
I would have to agree with this myself. It is essentially the same thing I have been saying over and over for I’ve lost track of how long. This WH used the first amendment in the most perverse of manners to do this act of treason against the American intelligence community specifically Plame and the national security of the USA itself. They deliberately wanted this via these reporters because they were big enough fish that they should have been able to prevent from being called, and that is if it ever got that far in the first place. Does anyone really think that those Bushco members involved in this ever thought it would seriously come to a criminal investigation given the perceived and unfortunately actual control they had over the federal government at the time? I sure don’t. The sloppiness in how this was done as well as the recklessness indicates an underlying arrogance regarding facing any “real”/serious consequences for doing so, and that in itself is supposed to be a major red flag as a security threat/hole.
This WH took one of the most special of all the qualities of America that have stood her in such high regard throughout most of her history, free speech and the free press and the right of reporters to protect their sources implied within it and used it to commit one of the blackest of treacheries. In some ways I would actually be happier if this was done to neutralize not Wilson but Plame herself and/or BJ&a, because at least then there would be a rational pragmatic reason underlying it, whereas if it was done for the reasons it appears to have been done a political damage control spin/deflection point then this was something even worse. I know that may seem odd to some folks, but the idea of this being done to eliminate someone in the great intelligence game because they are a threat there at least seems no less evil than the “official” reason of spin control but at least would carry some true deeper meaning to it than if it was all to get at her husband alone.
This is not to say I am condoning any of it of course, just that I could at least have a tiny bit of grudging “well, ok, at least it was related to her professionally” feeling to this as opposed to her simply being collateral damage because she was a useful tool in their minds to bludgeon him with since they didn’t have the facts to rebut him with on the substance. Still though, they twisted and perverted one of the most beautiful concepts in human civilization, and used it for this purpose. Not to mention the media stooge who was willing to actually run with it of the several that had been offered it that douchebag of Liberty (thanks Jon Stewart) Robert Novak. He is no less complicit in this to my mind; the others all chose to withhold it for varying reasons of either relevance or concern of security. Novak though was quite willing to do the hit, my one satisfaction was how swiftly he folded up for the special prosecutor and the FBI, I wonder how his sources felt when they realized that.
I am so tired of the “no crime was committed” argument. I have heard it over and over and over again to the point that listening to fingernails down a blackboard has started to become a preferable choice. There was a monstrous crime committed here, and I pray to God that history will be able to show that to have been the case, because this case from the outset has been nothing short of horrific in its nature and implications to those that cherish the intelligence community and the needs by which they must operate. They are the ones that were sold out, they were the ones any message of intimidation beyond Wilson himself was being sent to, and they are the ones least able to come forward and defend themselves. It is for those that have had such inability to truly speak for themselves on this that I think of whenever I hear garbage like no crime committed being spewed. I consider how that must make their blood boil and run cold simultaneously, especially if they too are covert. I keep thinking that thank God my relative is no longer alive to see this travesty and was not when it happened, and I loved that relative so much that their death all but shattered me completely. My wife was the only person and thing that could and did keep me together then. This is the *ONLY* thing I have ever felt that way about where this relative is concerned, I miss them still so much, and will tp my dying day. That relative would have been even more infuriated by this betrayal and the means by which it was both perpetrated and then covered up as much as it has managed to be to date than I am.
Sorry, I know I have said this stuff before; it is just that this really infuriates me. Those that work without official cover have the most dangerous profession going. They have no protections save their own wits and the resources initially used to establish the cover and to maintain it provided by their employer. They have to entice foreign assets to work for their governments, thereby exposing them greatly to risk of discovery by the very nature of such contacts and the risks inherent within them. They have to live double lives from all but those closest to them (if even then) and their professional colleagues, not an easy way to live a life and are a great sacrifice of not just oneself but those that care for the operative. They run these risks because they believe in what their nation, their society stands for and believe it to be worth defending even at so great a cost and risk. Look what was done to them in this affair and by what means at that, that has got to go right through the heart of all that actually run the risks of that profession instead of those that claim to respect/admire from afar. They are the ones still being actively harmed by this; Plame has unfortunately already suffered the bulk of her damages, aside of course from an old score wanting to settle accounts with her in some nasty and potentially fatal manner with her or those close to her. They though are still out there risking it all with even less reason to trust in their own leaders to protect them if it becomes “politically” inconvenient and have to try to maintain networks destabilized by this outing/betrayal not to mention develop new assets with the job of convincing them they can trust them to be able to let alone willing to protect their identities made so much harder. They are the ones being maligned most by those advancing such insane claims as no underlying crime in this case nonsense. They are one of the main reasons I feel the outrage that I do, because I respect their sacrifices and know they are not free to speak up for themselves when they need defending. I value their sacrifices and therefore feel it important to do what I can, as little as that may be, to make sure others know of it too and to defend against those that would belittle them, just as is true of the FDLers and all those affiliated that share this outrage for this atrocity.
Rayne @ 204
Well, Rayne, I just gotta say, I know you’ve done a lot, as have some of the rest of us. I’ve done as much as I could, given my financial and physical limitations. But I also have a problem with the way some of us attack one another. For instance, I’ve said for a long time that Dems deserve the phrase, “Democrats eat their young.” We don’t get people’s backs as much as we should. As an example, for all his faults, Biden has been out there for several years throwing the flames that people have been begging someone to throw. Instead of saying, “Gee, that’s a flamethrower! Thank you!” instead all I hear are ignorant remarks about his hair plugs and his smile and his ego being too big. Yes, he bloviates, sometimes too much, and I don’t think he’ll survive as a candidate for Pres. for long, but is all the criticism really necessary. There are others, and sometimes I thinks we’re more of a runaway gang out to bust people for the pure joy of it. But since I’m not writing a book, I’ll get off my soap box now. Just needed to vent.
Unbelievable… the more I hear from and about V. Toensing, the more of a monster she seems. And I thought I’d lost the ability to be shocked.
OKKiddo and Norske, I went a-googling for Fred Harris. According to Wiki he is still alive, but apparently a NM resident now. SOunds like a hell of a guy.
Lindy, the brief turned up an another thread, here is the link http://www.digenovatoensing.co…..032305.pdf
They are going to wonder where all the traffic is coming from!
1,460 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Ann in AZ:
Bless your heart, it is true that the further left you get the less tolerance there is for corporate shills and political opportunists…and make no mistake, that’s what Joe Biden is. He is a shill for the bankin’ and credit card industry and fully capable of makin’ himself sound like a real progressive (at times) but when it comes to the crucial votes or the politics of conscience, he’s way out in front of the wind.
That doesn’t mean we don’t appreciate his wearin’ the mantle of “Democrat”, it just means we don’t trust ‘im and we won’t follow his leadership into corporatist hell.
KEEP THE FAITH AND KNOW WHO THE ENEMY IS…IT GETS COMPLICATED SOMETIMES!!
NorskeFlamethrower @ 219
Norske, the peace maker. Who’d have thunked. I like your stuff, pal. You’re OK. ;0)
Rayne @
175
Thank you Rayne for saying what I have been thinking and feeling in recent posts by OKKiddo.
I am an avid reader, sometimes commenter, and monetary contributor to FDL fo a couple of years, at least. But I didn’t feel I was a ‘regular’ here enough to say what you did.
We all feel strongly about the right for everyone to speak our piece – but when someone comments almost every other comment on a post, and only has negative things to say – well, I feel it is somewhat abusing this site.
But – who am I to say?
I do want to thank all commenters for their brilliant and knowledgable contributions – and the liquid-spewing-causing humor! You all make my day (evening and night)! Of course, my gratitude to Jane, Christy, MT, Swopa, Trex, and Prof. Prop – and all others who make this place my one-stop news source!
john swifty
Did they go to journalism school to be lemmings? Is there a Lemming-101 class?
I wonder, when did they all decide to be so utterly disappointing; and to abdicate, so completely, any professional ethic or responsibility.
If A doctor sat and watched a person choke to death, would it be any more ethically desolate?
Quote Thi
john, the same channel that carries your show, sponsors a school of journalism here, woub……scripps howard school of journalism…supposedly elite and hard to get into..they have their moments, but are mostly concerned with learning to read the news on air……they all rotate, so they learn to read it all right…..they even rotate doing the weather, that’s the training they’re getting…….offer to come and speak here, ohio university, and explain it to them………
Fred Harris is an Oklahoman. His much accomplished wife, LaDonna Harris is an Oklahoman, and a Comanche.
dmac @218, I’m facing something like that in a couple of months when I move. The local democratic party is pretty well kept inactive by a few. I’m looking at ways to make contact with like-minded individuals there. I’m thinking about publishing a newsletter, having discussion groups, and trying to get progressive speakers for the area. I might even have a building :). Any and all ideas welcome. I keep a log of those. Rome wasn’t built in a day, but it sure as hell fell apart fast, so I have to keep moving *g*. What makes all this so ironic is that I’m a very shy person.
1,460 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Hoflash:
What great news…thanx for the work on Google (I’m gunna hafta learn ta use that tool before they make us pay for it). Fred Harris was Oklahoma’s version of the Texan Ralph Yarborough and came out of the same political meliu of southwestern rugged individualist, take no shit populists. Been a long time since we’ve had a progressive Texas or Oklahoma senator.
KEEP THE FAITH AND TAKE CARE OF EACH OTHER, THE BASTARDS CAN’T LIVE FOREVER!!
HotFlash @ 224
;0)
Probably get EPUed
Black Adder on confidential information (Plamegate-like))
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..mp;search=
i wrote this to ok kiddo a while back and felt the need to repost it due to the turn of conversation
NorskeFlamethrower @ 225
Norske, I understand what your saying, and I don’t believe he’ll make it to the Presidency. I just think that when he doesn’t, it should be for the reasons you so eloquently stated and not due to all the silliness about hair plugs and his smile is too big. I’m not necessarily a big fan of his, but I believe in giving credit where credit is due, and I don’t hear that nearly enough.
Also, just as you mentioned that you don’t trust Biden and won’t follow his lead, so too has it been shown, to the great disappointment of most of us here, me included, that other members of Congress won’t follow Feingold, even when he’s right. He’s probably too progressive for them. Or for that matter, Howard Dean, or Kucinich. I love Dean, and Kucinich is looking better to me every time I hear him speak. I thought Tammy Duckworth was an impressive candidate during the election and even since. But I’m not that familiar with her politics, since I’m not in her district. However, I’m assuming that she’s not progressive enough to suit us, because I’ve heard a lot of criticism of her. How are we going to pull this party together with everyone at odds with one another? I guess that’s my point.
dmac @ 234
I remember that.
;0)
lindy @230
like-minded, therein lies the doofus factor…….i would have settled for like-minded vision……..where we want to head, that should be something people are able to have in common, but no, they’re hung up on ideas, ideology and the personas that ritualize their ideas………..no thanks……..so good luck in making something come alive, personalize what people need and want to see happen…and then it can…that is what i hope for you………
smapdi @
148
Lindy @217 This is it.
The quotes and end-notes are quite Coulteresque. If you are a reader of old The Daily Howler, you will understand what I am talking about.
I had forgotten that 24 (out of the total 40) pages span the bona fides of the 36 media organizations – I skipped it the first time and had completely forgotten about that.
sleepy time-
nite ok kiddo-i get where you’re comin’ from although it’s the opposite hill from where i reside………….but it’s a nice valley inbetween that we both see………
If all is indeed going to Hell in the proverbial for them…. Cheney to go, Rove going, the Republican Party just might “persuade” W to appoint Poppy as VP and then quit…….
It is late and fantasy is fun.
As noted above, the link to a Word version of the amicus brief is here; the last page of the file offers a link to a full .pdf version, but that link is not working for me (OK, “Word” is not working for me either, so maybe my problem is with the text editor I am using.)