
Dear sleepy little Firepups,
Put on your footsie pajamas, get your warm blankie, snuggle under the covers and Looseheadprop will tell you a bedtime story about a mythical event called Insta-De-Classification. Unlike unicorns or Santa Claus or Sasquatch which have all had multiple sightings and for which there exist a vast treasure trove of both testimonial and documentary evidence, Insta-De-Classification is a fable made up to help the simple minded avoid nightmares.
Once upon a time there was a President. This President issued an Executive Order called 12958 (funny name that). Anyway, 12958 was a noble, though verbose Executive Order. It laid out the rules for classifying and de-classifying government documents.
Among other things, our friend 12958 created an Information Security Oversight Office which had as its job both making sure that the rules for classifying and de-classifying secret information were followed, but also for keeping the records that would let people know what was and was not classified at any given time.
You see, pups, section 5.1(b) of 12958 defined a violation of that Executive Order as among other things:
(b) “Violation” means: (1) any knowing, willful, or negligent action that could reasonably be expected to result in an unauthorized disclosure of classified information;
And section 5.7 (b) states among other things
(b) Officers and employees of the United States Government, and its contractors, licensees, certificate holders, and grantees shall be subject to appropriate sanctions if they knowingly, willfully or negligently: (1) disclose to unauthorized persons information properly classified under this order or predecessor orders[snip]
(4) contravene any other provision of this order or its implementing directives. (c) Sanctions may include reprimand, suspension without pay, removal or termination of classification authority, loss or denial of access of classified information, or other sanctions in accordance with applicable law and agency regulation
Now you may be wondering, what “applicable law?”
Well, our good friend Citizen Spook has a theory about that and excerpted and added emphasis to two sections out of Title 18 of the US Code. Title 18 is where they keep all the crimes BTW.
793:
(d) Whoever, lawfully having possession of, access to, control over, or being entrusted with any document, writing…or note relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it…
(e) Whoever having unauthorized possession…(followed by same as above)
(f) Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing…or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed… Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both. (g) If two or more persons conspire to violate any of the foregoing provisions of this section, and one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each of the parties to such conspiracy shall be subject to the punishment provided for the offense which is the object of such conspiracy.
—————————————————————————-
And now 794:
(a) Whoever, with intent or reason to believe that it is to be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of a foreign nation, communicates, delivers, or transmits, or attempts to communicate, deliver, or transmit, to any foreign government, or to any faction or party or military or naval force within a foreign country, whether recognized or unrecognized by the United States, or to any representative, officer, agent, employee, subject, or citizen thereof, either directly or indirectly, any document, writing…or information relating to the national defense, shall be punished by death or by imprisonment for any term of years or for life, except that the sentence of death shall not be imposed unless the jury or, if there is no jury, the court, further finds that the offense resulted in the identification by a foreign power (as defined in section 101(a) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978) of an individual acting as an agent of the United States and consequently in the death of that individual, or directly concerned nuclear weaponry, military spacecraft or satellites, early warning systems, or other means of defense or retaliation against large-scale attack; war plans; communications intelligence or cryptographic information; or any other major weapons system or major element of defense strategy.
So, as you can see puppies, if a person can commit a big ugly federal crime with up to A LIFE SENTENCE for “caus[ing classified information] to be communicated, delivered or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it…” this is a very serious matter. Consequently, under the authority of our friend 12958, the Information Security Oversight Office was created.
The current Director of ISOO is one William Leonard. Yes! That same nice Mr. Leonard who testified before BIG HANK Waxman’s committee on Friday. Wasn’t Mr. Leonard a credible witness? He wouldn’t let anybody left or right side of the aisle spin his testimony or get away with telling any fibs. Mr. Leonard strikes the Looseheadprop as a pretty straight arrow based on his performance in front of BIG HANK.
Well, Mr. Leonard set up a system for all the people who have authority under 12958 to report to ISOO what they had classified or what they had de-classified so that there would be one central definitive list. After all, if you want to throw somebody in jail for LIFE you better be able to prove that the thing they “communicated, transmitted o delivered” was actually classified at the time they did it. N’est pas?
Well in 2001 and 2002, everybody in the government was reporting every time they classified something or de-classified something. So far, so good. However beginning in 2003 (perhaps coinciding with that energy task force thingy?) the Office of the Vice-president decided it wasn’t going to comply any more. Mind you, the Office of the President still had to comply, but not OVP. Odd? According to the SeattleTimes:
A standing executive order, strengthened by President Bush in 2003, requires all agencies and "any other entity within the executive branch" to provide an annual accounting of their classification of documents. More than 80 agencies have collectively reported to the National Archives that they made 15.6 million decisions in 2004 to classify information, nearly double the number in 2001, but Cheney insists he is exempt.
[snip]
Bush has a partner — some say mentor — in Cheney, who from the start resisted all efforts to disclose the inner workings of a task force devising energy policy. He defeated an unprecedented lawsuit by the Government Accountability Office, the investigative arm of Congress, to unveil that task force and carried his fight successfully to the Supreme Court
The New Standard tells us:
In its 2005 report to the president released last month, the Information Security Oversight Office (ISOO), a branch of the National Archives, provides a quantitative overview of hundreds of thousands of pages of classified and declassified documents. But the vice president’s input consists of a single footnote explaining that his office failed to meet its reporting requirements for the third year in a row.[snip]
In a May 30 letter to J. William Leonard, director of the ISOO, the Project on Government Secrecy contended that Cheney’s rationale was illogical, because additional legislative functions should have no bearing on the vice president’s executive-branch obligations. Troubled by the continued non-compliance, the organization warned that if the ISOO did not act to enforce the vice president’s responsibilities under the executive order, "every agency will feel free to re-interpret the order in idiosyncratic and self-serving ways."
Each year, the ISOO publishes data on the amount of information classified by government entities, such as the Department of Justice and the Pentagon, and broadly analyzes how the bureaucracy processes national-security secrets. Mandated by an executive order, the report is intended to encourage greater accountability and minimize secrecy.
[snip]
In 2003 – around the time Cheney’s office stopped reporting to the ISOO – the Bush administration affirmed and expanded the vice president’s classification powers through a revision of Executive Order 12958, the same order mandating the yearly ISOO assessment. The amended order explicitly granted the vice president unprecedented authority to classify information "in the performance of executive duties," including the ability to label information "secret" and "top secret" on par with the heads of federal agencies and the president himself.
Critics also note another legal shield compounding the vice president’s reticence about how he handles secrets: Cheney enjoys general immunity from the Freedom of Information Act, which empowers members of the public with a process for demanding the release of government documents.
[snip]
Some question whether Cheney has wielded his power over secret government information to smear opponents.
[snip]
In a February interview with Fox News, asked whether he had ever exercised declassification powers, Cheney replied, "I've certainly advocated declassification and participated in declassification decisions," though he refused to elaborate on the nature of those decisions.
Aftergood said that the ISOO could try to compel Cheney to comply with the executive order through enforcement mechanisms. These could include sanctions, which under the ISOO’s mandate might entail "termination of classification authority" or "denial of access to classified information" – or officially requesting an advisory ruling from the attorney general to clarify the vice president’s obligations.
Since receiving the letter, Leonard of the ISOO told TNS that he is "currently pursuing the matter." Noting the novelty of Cheney’s defense, he added, "I am not aware of any other entity claiming any such ‘exemption.’"
Jennifer Gore, communications director for the watchdog group Project on Government Oversight (POGO), pointed to a precedent for public-interest advocates bringing legal challenges to curb executive secrecy. Referring to the Watergate scandal, which also involved a court battle over the White House’s refusal to disclose incriminating documents, she said, "In the past, when members of the executive branch have voiced privilege as a reason not to turn something over, then it’s time to go to the courts."
And then there’s the Chicago Tribune:
Vice President Dick Cheney again refused to report his offices activities in either classification or declassification of documents during 2005, as he has refused to disclose since 2003.
And from “National Security Archive”:
Only 14 of the full 93 pages of the National Intelligence Estimate that President Bush authorized Vice President Cheney's chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, to disclose to New York Times reporter Judith Miller has actually been officially declassified, according to a posting today on the Web site of the National Security Archive at George Washington University.
In May 2006, Steven Aftergood , Director of the Project on Government Secrecy, Federation of American Scientists wrote a letter to William Leonard at ISOO pointing out that Cheney was flouting the law and urging Mr. Leonard to excercise his authority under 5.5(b) of 12958 to sanction the OVP for failing to comply with the reporting requirements.
So, you puppies may be wondering what has allXGCFHDXthis to do with Insta-De-Classification? It’s like this, during the Summation in the Libby trial Wells said that only 3 people in the world knew that Cheney and/or Bush had Insta-De-Classified the NIE at the time Libby went to leak it to Judy Miller and Libby went jumping through all kinds of hoops to try to show that he wanted to be sure he had authority to leak it.
Two problems with that:
1) Libby had already leaked it to Woodward and Sanger (hat tip to Marcy for reminding me of that on the phone last night) before the Insta-De-Classification for Judy’s benefit
2) I don’t think anyone can find contemporaneous proof of the Insta-De-Classification anywhere or we would have seen Wells introduce it at trial.
Now, we know OVP doesn’t do the required reporting to ISOO, but there was no indication that the Office of the president wasn’t doing it.
So, here is an interesting possibility: What if Insta-De-Classification is a myth? What if it never happened? What if Libby leaked the NIE to Woodward, Sanger and Miller just like that? Without a thought?
What if, after the fact, they decided to “confess” to leaking the NIE to Miller to cover up the fact that the purpose of the 2 hour St. Regis breakfast was to leak Valerie Plame’s ID and they also gave her the NIE information?
One of the most classic ways to distract from liability for one crime is to confess to another crime. It acts almost like an alibi “I couldn’t have murdered the victim at 10 AM on April 12th because at 10 AM, I was robbing the bank!” When using this method of false alibi, the criminal usually tries to choose to confess to a crime that either carries significantly less jail time or, better still, a crime he knows the prosecution will have a hard time proving.
So, Libby cops to leaking the NIE, a crime not within Fitzgerald’s mandate. Now, I suppose Fitz could have referred the leaking of the NIE to, to, to –who? Alberto? Scratch that. Hmmmm? Who to refer to?
Well, if there is a conspiracy between Bush and Cheney to lie after the fact and falsely claim that an Insta-De-Classification happened when so such thing ever occurred, the only place to refer a high crime like that to would be????????
First person to answer correctly gets a lollipop. Oh, extra hint for you all, Pat actually alluded to it at the post verdict press conference and he specifically talked about believing that violations of the Espionage Act may have been committed during the indictment press conference. Anybody got a guess yet?
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Fitz!
I’m more cranky than sleepy, really…
ESTEN!
Big Hank says “Hey Nowwww!”
OH!! I LOVE that pic!! It’s Mama Christy and the Peanut!!
Okay, back to reading the post…
How about the House Judiciary committee?
Rayne @ 5
Me too. Pach found that. I started with a picture of a unicorn and a fairy.
This is so much better.
Well, I finished watching the Waxman hearing today, and almost all of the Dems were great; either very pissed off (Watson, Cummings, Hodes), or very prosecutorial (Van Hollen, Hodes).
Twisted Guinness @ 6
Getting very warm. Think a little bigger
How about Congress?
Ever wonder how the US blood spilled in Iraq compares to other US wars?
Well it’s well below the “Big 5″, WW2. Civil War, WW1, Vietnam, and Korea- but it’s in number 7 placed currently- just ahead of the revolutionary war in which just over 4,000 were killed, and the War of 1812 that killed over 2,000.
This war is historically significant.
Congrats Mr. President.
Gonzo is still the proper person to report such violations of law to. Isn’t that sweet? Does this diabetic get a lollipop?
Best, Terry
looseheadprop -
I’m sleepy – can we just skip ahead to the part where the stuffitupalous vaporizes Darth Cheney and the planet lives happily ever after?
House Judiciary Committee- for impeachment!!
FISA court?
ok, the House of Reps.
The House of Representatives.
Twisted Guinness @
6
Go figure. ON St. PAtrick’s day, the Twisted Guinness gets the gold star.
Oh, me, me, me, I know [waves hand wildly in air]:
The House of Representatives, where articles of impeachment originate?
Just knew as I was getting fired up on the last thread that I was gonna get epu’d. Better to just settle down.
I’m more tipsy than sleepy. But I might have to trek to Byrnes before St. Patrick’s day is done.
Chimpeach!
The speaker of the House?
And the reason I was so late was because i did the reading first.
No fair to have to compete with the speed readers.
snowbird (if you followed over from the downstairs thread) -
Yup, used to be some stores by that name; don’t know if they’re still in existance or not. As mentioned in earlier thread today, I took the name from a large natural lake in SE NC & river that flows on thru’ the SC lowlands………..homage to my home at FDL. *g*
lhp -
What are the substantive differences between Executive Orders 12958 and 13292?
Curious in Central Texas @ 10
CAn you be moe specific? Very warm
And a fitting St. Patrick’s Day topic indeed.
Mor than a few members of the Executive Branch will be wearing the green (pallor).
terry hallinan @ 12
Not this violation of law.Or at least not for these defendants
IIR, Any member of the House of Representitives can introduce Articles of Impeachment.
Can we impeach the bastards yet????
This was fascinating reading. I hope someone sends it to John Conyers, who I just heard speak this very morning.
And FWIW, this is what I think happened.
Cheney told Libby to start seeding the leak of Plame’s ID just after June 19 (when Eric Edelman suggested it). At that point, they were going to push journalists to figure it out. THey got Duberstein to set up a meeting between Armitage, known leaker, and Novak. And Libby told Judy that maybe Plame worked at the CIA.
But then Joe’s op-ed happened, before the Novak meeting, and before Judy asked enough people to get the Plame story. So on July 7, as they were comparing their underlined copies of the op-ed, Cheney said, “Go.” And Libby said, “nossir. I can’t leak a covert operative’s identity.” And Cheney said, “I’ll make sure it’s okay.” The next day, Cheney said, “go, now.” Libby double checked with ADD, who said, “sure, go ahead.” And then Libby leaked Plame.
When it came time to do the cover-up, they thought up what they could use to explain it away. I know!! The NIE!! We were leaking it at the time!! THat’s why we met with Ms Judy.
Only their story doesn’t make sense. Not at all.
And speaking of the House, and Bush’s latest “threat” that he will veto any DOD supplemental that contains limitations [like timelines for withdrawal]: why don’t the Dems call his bluff, pass the bill with timelines and LET HIM VETO IT.
Now who’s “not supporting the troops”?
Waccamaw as a lake is better. (g)
Could the Pres AND Veep be Impeached and Convicted jointly?
President Pelosi anyone?
And before 2008 too.
(I can dream….)
Libby double checked with ADD,
Dubya?
John Conyers
rwcole @ 14
Actally it is the full house that votes for impeachment.
You see, if
and this is a big if,
if the srime is a conspiracy between Bush and Cheney to leak the NIE (and out a NOC) and when they got caught red handed they made up this story after the fact…..
Makes me think of that John Lovits bit that ends “that’s my story and I’m sticking to it”
TATS
This was a classification level that appeared on at least one of the documents that came up in the Plame trial. It was said to mean “Treat as Top Secret”.
I hold a clearance and none of my security procedure reviews have ever mentioned any such class of documents.
It piques the curiosity whether the OVP is running a parallel classification scheme.
And I hesitate to ask–is the ISOO non-reporting that you’re talking about here part of the OVP view that it is a fourth branch of government?
terry hallinan -
Thanks for the e&p link downstairs; hadn’t checked them today & appreciate the nudge. Right on article.
looseheadprop @ 29
Shucks. Now I can’t kill myself with sweetness, you old sourpuss. :-)
Best, Terry
looseheadprop @ 37
“And so says my wife, Victoria Toensing… who I’ve seen naked!”
ifthethunderdontgetya @
21
Hey, you are in Columbus. Is there still a joint called Brennan’s on Broad-Nel? I knew John Brennan many moons ago.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 26
The fas has an annotated version of the Bush EO showing the differences.
Twisted Guinness @ 16
Give the man a Lollipop!
What flavor would you like?
looseheadprop @ 44
Peach.
Hi all,
I was looking around at various sources and ran across the line
First, I want a special counsel to indict Waxman for perjury – the relevant Executive Order is 13292, which amended and supplanted 12958 in March 2003, and which was effective immediately (except for section 1.6, related to markings – what are the odds the violation to which he refers is there? Groan. I want a lawyer…).
on Tom Maguires site.
I happen to find that he is completely off the deep end in how he embarrasses himself about Icky Toesuck as a know it all ( you know cause she wrote it, sort of.) But the point about the Bush executive order superceeding the one LHP is talking about. Can anybody clarify?
Bille
But Marcy, this suggests that the leaking of Plame’s identity as a smear of Wilson was planned [June 19] BEFORE Wilson’s article came out [July 6]?? Or were they planning to smear Wilson in response to Kristof’s article [May 6]?
LHP — No, I don’t really know for certain. It seems tricky because it involves the President and Vice President —
Thanks for great lessons.
the lollipop should be peach mint
Thunder, I guess not:
Brennan’s Broad-Nel saloon sold – U.S. Realty Consultants, Wagenbrenner Co – Brief Article
Nation’s Restaurant News, Jan 31, 1994
COLUMBUS, Ohio — An era ended here this month when Brennan’s Broad-Nel, a 70-year-old saloon that had changed little over the years, was sold.
John Brennan, who owned the restaurant and saloon for the last 10 years, said he decided to sell because of his other interests.
He sold the business to U.S. Realty Consultants and Wagenbrenner Co., which plan to reopen it as a diner.
The tavern’s extensive sports memorabilia collection has been auctioned, with part of the proceeds going to the central Ohio Radio Reading Service for the sight-impaired.
Brennan kept an autographed photograph of Woody Hayes as a memento.
Advertisement
COPYRIGHT 1994 Reproduced with permission of the copyright holder. Further reproduction or distribution is prohibited without permission.
COPYRIGHT 2004 Gale Group
1 – 2 – Next
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 26
Can we make a deal? Cause that post was almost obnoxiously long. If it becomes important, I will do you a post on it. But I think I hit eye glazing with this one and don’t want frighten folks away with even more excessive geekiness.
Eli @ 46
How about Peach-Mint?
Mmmmmm! Peach-Mint!
Kathryn in MA @ 52
Mmm, peach-mint…
Today, I want a Guinness flavored lolly. Or maybe Jameson’s.
lhp -
This is one of those Grimm stories, isn’t it?
Heh.
LHP
Yeah- the whole house votes- but the articles are voted out of the house judiciary committee as I recall.
Mack @ 35
If there was a conspiracy count, I don’t see how you could avoid it.
LOL!
A round of Guinness flavored suckers for the whole house!
Eli @ 36
Sorry. Liveblogspeak. Libby’s abbreviation for David Addington, Mr. Unitary Executive, is ADD.
lhp -
This excerpt appeared in Josh Marshall’s TPMmuckraker on February 4:
Mmmmm! Joint-Conspiracy!
here I thought I’d get a bedtime story that would put me to sleep, but instead MY HAIR IS STANDING ON ENDS once again!
prolley time to go drink a Guinness…
Twisted Guinness @ 62
I think the House has more than enough suckers already. But a lot fewer than last year…
can we call the paddy wagon, now pleeeeeese?
Eli @ 67
Not those fuckers, they can get their own. I mean you guys and gals.
O’OldCoastie @ 68
This is certainly the right day for it…
this white house has discovered that they can claim any half witted legal theories they want about their own power- and there is no mechanism to stop em. Cute.
Eli @ 42
What an awful fright that must have been.
John McCain seems to be having a simply dreadful problem figuring out whether condoms work better than sermons on abstinence to prevent STD’s.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes…..revention/
Maybe if somebody told McCain naked pictures of Victoria Toensing would stop STD’s cold, he could be Republican nominee after all.
Best, Terry
excellent analysis…thanks much! This is the main reason I keep returning to Firedoglake. Keeps me informed beyond anything that would ever appear in the MSM.
rwcole @ 71
Well, no mechanism that they don’t control. But that kinda took a hit when the Democrats took Congress – which they did not anticipate when they were merrily breaking every law in sight while making only token efforts to cover their tracks.
Professor Foland @ 39
Actually, I think that’s as fruitful an object of inquiry. I had to duck out of the hearing yesterday, but as I was walking back in, I heard Mr, Leonard say that declassification/classification could never be used to hide a crime. Which appears to be what CheneyCo was doing with teh “Treated as Top Secret/SCI” stamps. And yes, Addington agrees with you–there’s no such thing. Testified to that in the trial.
terry hallinan @ 72
Best to put a condom on *over* your sermon, just to be on the safe side.
An Irishman walks into a pub with a sheep under his arm. The bartender looks at him and says “Colin, are ye gonna shear that sheep?”
Colin replies, “No, I’m gonna fook it meself!”
looseheadprop –
Heh. Jon Lovitz.
Makes me think of that bit he did as a ham in the smoking jacket that would shout, “ACTING!!!”
Toensing. Ham. Acting. *Blergh.*
Anyhow…the Energy Task Force documents were created as early as January 2001. I don’t believe there has yet been a definitive decision on the status of the documents after nearly constant demands for the release of the documents since 2002. Judicial Watch was only able to get a portion of the documents. Think DeadEye was eventually told he had to give up the documents, but he appealed and there they sit, still waiting somewhere for another decision.
One more reason why having a Republican friendly judiciary is so very important to these racketeers in office. (But I’m preaching to the choir on this one…)
Professor Foland @ 39
OVP has offered this cocamamy(sp?) sounding excuse that becasue the Veep has both executive branch and legistlative branch (as president of the senate) that somehow that means he does not have to follow statute passed by Congress or Executive Orders issued by the President.
He is somekind of super branch of government in his own argument. I don’t think he actually believes any of this fertilizer for a nanosecond, I think he cynically believes he can just stonewall.
Mr. Leonard seems to have been trying to fight the good fight (without enough success) for several years now.
Hey- I just got off a long phone call from my mother.
So, I’ll say the answer is Cheney!
Professor Foland @ 39
No reason for hesitation–Cheney’s adopted the Nixonian view: “Anything the President (or his designate–the Vice President) does is legal.”
It’s a very sensible extrapolation from all the other available evidence.
Congress doesn’t have a police force- and is therefore pretty helpless in enforcing their judgement about executive branch extra-legal enterprises
They can cut off funds and close down the govt.- or impeach- so it’s all or nothing
Did someone already answer LHP’s question, BTW?
Is anyone discussing the possibility that Valerie was the real target and that Joe’s Op-ed was collateral? Maybe her professional findings were contrary to the info Dick was trying to generate during his visits to CIA Hdq.
Too late for the last thread, but I don’t want to miss out on telling Diane that my Mom died on my birthday shortly after Sept 11th, 2001. Bush’s election and the attack took the wind right out of her. It took about two years for my grief to subside. I am thinking of you and hoping you heal well.
Karen
It’s been many a moon since I had a belt but back in the day, on this day, it was Tullamore Dew
Looks like we’re all having a very exciting Saturday night, huh?
After getting home from seeing Conyers and going to a rally I was just too cold to feel like going out again.
Reading this post was well worth staying in the house for a quiet evening at home.
I never ceases to amaze me how much I learn here. Thanks LHP for the amazing lesson.
Eli @
76
Over your sermon or your semen?
Just askin’.
Looseheadprop @52: Didn’t find your post obnoxiously long at all. It was thorough. I plan to go back and re-read it, as there’s good stuff there I need to grasp. Won’t speak for anybody else, but sometimes pithy summaries don’t tell the tale. Menopause may have compromised some things, but I can still read more than a few sound bites without twitching.
rw – I say fire up the impeachment grill…
raven @ 86
Do you wear suspenders now?
Valley Girl @ 83
yes, the answer is “The House of Representatives”
Pelosi gets the nod.
Violence is fine. As long as we’re doing the violating. I suppose. The hypocrisy of the Israeli government is so disgusting.
Palestinian unity government takes office
Israel won’t work with Hamas-Fatah coalition that condones violence
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip – Palestinians installed a new, more moderate coalition government on Saturday, in hopes of persuading the international community to end its isolation of the Palestinian Authority and lift a year of bruising sanctions.
Israel promptly announced it wouldn’t deal with the coalition, because governing partners Hamas and Fatah stopped short of explicitly recognizing the Jewish state or renouncing violence, as the international community has demanded.
But the new alliance, which replaced the militantly anti-Israel government led by the Islamic Hamas, appeared to implicitly recognize Israel by calling for a Palestinian state on lands the Israelis captured in 1967. Norway immediately recognized the new coalition and announced it would lift sanctions. Britain and the U.N. signaled flexibility — suggesting money could start flowing again if the coalition keeps anti-Israel activities in check.
The U.S., traditionally a major donor, has been cool to the coalition plan.
karen @ 84
It’s possible, but the machinations that came out in the Libby trial make it sound pretty clear that it was a response to Wilson’s op-ed. If Valerie was the real target, then they took their cover story to quite an extreme (i.e., behind-the-scenes actions that they never thought would see the light of day).
raven @ 86
Egads. Mr emptywheel is from the home of the Dew. That’s not really the whiskey you’ll want to be drinking, lad.
rwcole @ 59
OK, OK lollipops all around
So if we actually impeach these guys and Pelosi becomes President (interesting how life sometimes can imitate art), and we have an incumbent in the WH, all of this early campaigning could be for naught. This could be one reason all those early, early primaries are a bad idea. Things can change so much between February and convention time.
I know it’s still a long shot that this will actually happen, but it’s a nice dream to have.
sent this to Congressman Waxman yesterday
I hope you know how very appreciative a good portion of America is today after listening, watching or following the live blogging of your Oversight committee hearing today. You and your fellow Democrats have left people like myself with a feeling of hope that the rule of law might be restored in this country before the Bush Administration pulls out the next catastrophic illegal and immoral action.
I hope you use your subpoena powers to call all those who have not voluntarily responded to your “invitation” to appear.
In the meantime, I recommend to you and the committee members the following blog essays:
THE NON-GRAND JURY MATERIALS by emptywheeler (Marcy Wheel, author of ANATOMY OF DECEIT, and blogger at thenexthurrah.typepad.com and firedoglake.com)
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..materials/
LOOSEHEAD THOUGHTS: RULE 6(e) by looseheadprop (an attorney and blogger at firedoglake.com)
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..s-rule-6e/
These people have been following the case of Valerie Plame Wilson since it first hit the newswires and Marcy has written THE BOOK on helping us understand the underlying motives that led to actions on the part of high administration officials in outing a CIA agent for political reasons. Their live blogging, along with Jane Hamsher, Jeryln Merrit, Christy Hardin Smith, Parachutec, Trex and others, of the Libby trial, have become the new source reading in American Political History. Some of the media (most actually) have been complicit in covering up what I view as a treasonous cabal. So thanks also for leaving the record open on Victoria Toensing’s testimony. I know you’ll find some real lies that this ATTORNEY is spewing on behalf of Bush et.al. She should really be disbarred.
Please keep digging and know that WE THE PEOPLE support a return to sanity in government rule.
Sincerely,
barb [edited]
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 64
Srephen Parish
your research skills never cease to humble and amaze me
Eli @ 95
I think these guys are pretty good at hiding their tracks (they have a lot of experience with that sort of thing), and, as long as they can maintain secrecy, that gives them some time to arrange fall-back scenarios. What better way to avoid a staffer making a slip to a reporter than to just not publish the names of OVP staff?
Being that Pelosi said impeachment was “off the table”
I guess she will just have to be drafted.
O’OldMcCoastie @ 92
Thanks- I had to jump w/o reading comments (the Cheney guess). Maybe my irony generator is working overtime. I just got off the phone with my 90- year old mother- always long conversations- relating her travails in trying to get her drivers license renewed in CA. She is a very good driver. I think they were freaked out because she drives a 1967 VW bug- stick shift of course. And, the seats have not been err… restored.
emptywheel @
75
Suggest taking it up with John Dean…. heard him speak at an ACLU Townhall and he was telling us about the separate Security/Intell office that the OVP had which was so much better and more powerful which ran parallel with Condi’s group. As I remember, Condi’s group was for show and the OVP had all the power.
Mack @ 102
I think as soon as impeachment is winnable, Pelosi will set the table and call everyone to the table.
LHP,
The really dark thing about that David Kurtz post Stephen Parish quoted is the way OVP has used that reasoning to make themselves completely unaccountable by claiming they are part of the legislature to avoid executive regulations and vice versa.
It’s like Cheney reinterpreted the least powerful position in government to be supremely authoritative and above all accountability.
I wonder if this scenario is the one Kurt Godel imagined when he told Einstein he looked at the Constitution and found a loophole that could make it a dictatorship.
Mack @ 102
She may have to buy some new china if enough evidence comes out to support impeachment.
Conyers said today that we don’t really have enough time for impeachment with everything else that has to be done and it could actually backfire and hurt us in the next election. If the evidence is overwhelming, though, I disagree with him and think they may change their minds. If it’s so overwhelming that they get bipartisan support and support from a majority of the voters, I could see it happening.
VG – your mother sounds like a riot…
me old mum is 87 and still driving well… I figure as long as she can see, hear and respond appropriately (and doesn’t have a car covered with dents), she should be allowed to get to the grocery store without having to beg her children.
Dover Bitch @ 106
We got a powerful VP one administration too late…
Good read on a green day! Not too long at all me matey!
I have seen some significant huffing and puffing from my party, the Demos. But’s so far, that’s about it.
lhp:
Being a “process junkie,” I want to thank you for providing us with the nuts & bolts details & references that I & those like-minded crave.
Your 6(e) post a couple of days back was inspirational. Truly!
Please, please, don’t ever stop.
This administration is so criminal it is amazing. And their buds in the press… this is rather depressing if 10% of what we are reading here about these people is true.
This really is sickening.
katymine @ 104
Others have said the same thing. During the transition period, Cheney seeded many agencies with people of his choice, and there have been some anonymous comments from lower-level NSC staffers that Cheney’s people have dominated the NSC process from the very start of the Bush administration. Anything that did not conform to Cheney’s view of things, his staffers would shut down as a non-starter.
lhp @ 6:43 pm -
Thank you very much :)
DefJef @ 113
Can’t have one without the other.
Impeachment is like an indictment.
It should be pursued if the prosecution feels they have the evidence to win a conviction.
All things are political now. What with being so close to Nov. 2008 and all.
Mack @ 117
With an impartial jury, or a partisan one?
O’OldMcCoastie @ 108
She is- mostly to other people’s children, and on this occasion, to me. Is you mum in CA? If so my mother discovered something interesting about the CA DOMV. We can take this up later, bec. it is def worth knowing about.
rwcole @ 82
Remember that Iran Contra wass about cutting off funds. Congress said no $ to give to the Contra, so Bush Sr. STOLE US ORDINANCE AND SOLD IT ON THE BLACK MARKET and gave the profits to the contras.
Yes, it is an all or nothing when you are dealing with immature fools who insist on playing “chicken”
Eli @ 109
Agreed, but this is what happens when you have an administration and DOJ that looks at the Constitution as an obstacle rather than something to be revered. I’d rather have a funeral attending figurehead as VP.
Especially since you really don’t vote for VP (at least not directly).
Valley Girl @
103
So your mother still handles clutch situations very well – right? :)
yup, VG, we be in CA…
BTW- LHP, I actually DID read your post, and thought it was brilliant. And, it looks like there are plenty of stellar contributions from the usual FDL suspects. Thanks all.
Dover Bitch @ 122
I have been saying almost those exact same words for at least a year. I think it’s 90% wanting to be able to do anything they want, and 10% the sheer joy of getting over on everyone.
holy crow!!!!
this is GREAT WRITING CROW!!!
I HAVE NEVER BEEN FOR THE DEATH PENALTY IN MY LIFE
however I am for holding people to account, we DO know that Cheney AND Bush ARE FOR the death penalty
have to say it again;
THIS IS GREAT STUFF CROW
emptywheel @
75
(emphasis mine)
I quite agree. I’ve been hoping some enterprising young reporter would start pulling on this thread to see what sweater falls apart in his hands.
montag–the OVP position is a little more “nuanced” than the Nixonian one. It’s based on an argument that because the VP is president of the Senate, the OVP is exempt from executive orders (because it’s part of the legislature) and exempt from legislation (because it’s part of the executive.) It’s the Catch-22 of executive privilege theory. And I agree with lhp none of them actually believe in it as anything other than a way to make it to 1/20/09.
Professor Foland @ 128
Unless Lieberman’s the veep in 2009, I suspect the Republicans will suddenly be clamoring for the OVP to be cut down to size…
Eli
Erm – there is no way the Senate is impartial.
From either side.
But, if direct evidence comes to light, the process should follow.
We have some evidence and a very good working theory.
(I know, I am convinced)
lhp, is the standard for conviction by the Senate the same as a normal criminal trial: beyond a reasonable doubt?
Celtic Music @ 89
For a while when Littleprop was very little, I used to teach (contracts and a survey course called “business entities”) I learned early about information dosing
You make the dose too big and the info does not get absorbed
Eli @
42
Eli, Please be kind. I’m trying to eat my cheesecake and berries.
with all this OVP power, the one place Hillary would be entertaining is in the VP position – might be worth it just to see the wingnuts heads spin off…
Bush is gone in a little more than a year and a half. I’m turning most of my attention to winning the White House with a good (center to left) Democratic candidate.
Stephen Parrish- let’s hope so- it was really looking like she wasn’t going to get her drivers license renewed- a lot of total bureaucratic bullshit, imo. She is a really good driver, if a little cautious. All of the car insurance claims came from me- when I was under the underage umbrella- had a bad habit of backing into cars, I did. Never an accident when driving forward, however.
Light bulb!! So that’s the Armitage-Novak meeting took place when Armitage had in the past refused to meet with Novak.
Armitage comes off about as well as Tim Russert on this.
Mack @ 130
You’re more optimistic than I am. I think they could have videotape showing that Bush and Cheney had advance knowledge of 9/11 and consciously decided not to act on it, and you *still* wouldn’t get any Republicans to vote in favor of impeachment or conviction.
emptywheel @ 75
Oh, mos’ def, in light of Elliott Abrams thoughts on Iran-Contra learnings:
This is the game plan they used since Day One, why Cheney was at work on the Energy Task Force from the first days of the Bush Administration in 2001 — and not Bush himself.
Terry Olson @ 132
Just making sure everyone was awake.
Just a related aside. Today at our rally, I talked with someone who had spent a lot of time at the NM legislature (adjourned today). We discussed what may have happened to the impeachment resolution that got hijacked by Democratic leadership at the last minute. Several Senators who had previously voted (in committees) to support it, changed their votes on the floor.
The speculation is that orders from DC shut it down. This would be orders from our elected Democratic Senator and our elected Democratic Representative.
So, I am not holding much hope that Pelosi will set a new table any time soon.
To take this one step further, if Fitz does turn over non-GJ docs to Hank, would there be a smoking gun that would target OVP for leaking the NIE?
Outstanding post, lhp !
I got a sense from BIG HANK that the subject of your post is where this might be headed. I wish I didn’t miss Mr. Leonard’s testimony due to work, it sounds significant.
On Friday under oath, it was kind of odd to hear Valerie state that she did not know about, in a legal sense, certain aspects of her position -only that she lived her cover consistent with her belief that that was her ongoing duty at the CIA. At second glance, it’s almost as if she was saying, “I know what I thought, but maybe you should ask Dick in case I somehow wasn’t legally an undercover agent when they decided to have reporters write about me.”
This makes sense, yes. Also wasn’t Pincus on this before the Wilson op-ed?
barb in montana @ 99
That’s great. Thank you
Members of the House Judiciary Committee
http://judiciary.house.gov/Com…..rship.aspx
emptywheel @
63
I thought you said he has Asparger’s…..
I want a presidential candidate who realizes the folly of Iraq and wants to pull out. I want a candidate who won’t start unprovoked wars. I want a candidate that wants a fair settlement to the Israeli-Palestinian situation and I want a candidate who wants to protect Mother Earth.
Professor Foland @ 128
I think most Constitution scholars have already pooh-poohed the “nuance” in Cheney’s position, because it assumes powers not stated in the Constitution. It’s a huge usurpation of power of the same sort advocated by Addington for other executive branch surpations of executive power. His legislative power is reserved to breaking tie votes in the Senate and acting as President pro tem of the Senate. No other legislative powers are designated or implied.
The simple way to fix this problem, if Congress really wanted to, is to simply defund that office. Not even give a Cheney a telephone. His salary is mandated constitutionally, and he could be shut down by giving him that, and nothing else.
If Cheney has determined unilaterally that the office of the OVP is a constitutional loophole, Congress could fix that, if not directly, then indirectly.
O’OldMcCoastie @ 124
I don’t know all the details yet, but my mother discovered that there is some sort of “special needs” provision- sounds like it allows people to drive locally- on their usual rounds to the grocery store, etc. And, the DMV sends a person to the house to give the driving test. I couldn’t get more info than this… but it is something she discovered quite by accident (so to speak), by talking to someone at DMV who was actually *nice* for a change. I will keep you updated, and then find a way to email you if you are interested in knowing the details (once I learn them).
this thread needs a highlight and a fax campaing, with proper highlighting and emphasis
this is a great post looseheadrop
off to sleep, am hoping for a wild sunday manana
Mack @ 102
More on that on Monday. Tune in. Same Bat Channel. Not sure what Bat Time
looseheadprop @ 60
And even if you didn’t, a VP replacement has to be confirmed by the Senate, so as long as you either do both together, or impeach Cheney first, it works out fine.
jayackroyd @ 146
Asperger’s in my cereal bowl…
Asperger’s in my cereal bowl…
LHP- please forgive the OT stuff on my part. But this driver’s license thing has been very stressful, personally. Oh, yeah, my mother hates Bush. And, part of her conversation was an OT bit about how much she dislikes Swart-zinger, as she calls him.
Dover Bitch @ 106
This could never happen unless he President allowed it to
oooooooooh!! can’t wait! if i go to sleep, will the day arrive sooner?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 147
Run, Al, run!
looseheadprop @ 155
Or was too obtuse to notice?
EDIT: But, yeah, I agree.
Kathryn in MA @ 156
Not for the rest of us.
In terms of defeating the Republicans in the coming elections, it is my firm belief that patience is not a luxury that can be afforded. The Republicans would love for us to be patient though. But let me assure you, the opposition is not being patient.
lhp, excellent job! When I go to sleep tonight there should be dreams of more hearings and testimony and justice.
Liberal-at-large @ 112
Ok blushing so hard my face will break out
looseheadprop @ 151
I’ve always taken the “off the table” remark to mean that the Dems are not intent on impeachment as a primary goal (a la the GOP with Clinton), not that they rule it out regardless of what other investigations turn up. In other words, as with so many other functions of government, they’re going to try to make it work right, not just do what’s best for them (not to mention the state of the Senate — making the GOP vote bills down or Bush veto them can be helpful in defining them; losing on impeachment accomplishes little or nothing.)
But I’ve always been an optimist.
I fond Cheney’s super-branch argument intriguing. Although I think it is bullshit, consider that it is only political tradition that has the president and vp run on the same ticket. There is no requirement that they even be of the same party and recall that president and vp were once first and second place finishers in the electoral college.
So being that the veep was in the beginning not envisioned to be an assistant president or even a political ally of the president but “merely” the second most electorally popular vote getter, any definition of what exactly the office of the veep is is pretty squishy.
I think I would take the Cheney/Addington theory of a 4th branch one step further. The OVP having any Constitutionally relevant authority other than to wait around for the president to die/become incapacitated and to preside over the senate (arguably the same thing) is clearly an extra-constitutional abrogation of power.
Dover Bitch @ 6:47 pm -
I would have thought that after looking at the Constitution that he would have mentioned his (Godel’s) incompleteness theorems to Einstein.
This is why the Bush cabal won’t fire Alberto Gonzales. The Bush cabal can’t take the chance that anyone the Democratic-controlled Congress approves will actually follow the “rule of law” and expose the actual, underlying crimes behind the outing of Valerie Plame-Wilson. The Bush cabal believes in the death penalty and for what they did in compromising national security in the Plame case, they definitely deserve the death penalty themselves, or at least life imprisonment, and a hefty fine.
A similar instance occurred in the first term of Bush II, during the initial outing of Plame. Attorney General Ashcroft stonewalled any investigation into the outing of a covert CIA operative, but then he became ill. He chose Comey as his temporary replacement and Comey then selected Patrick Fitzgerald to investigate the Plame outing, finally starting what the CIA demanded be done months earlier.
Oooops, the Bush cabal cannot allow this to happen again. Any replacement for the corrupt and conniving Gonzales would have to pass Democratic muster, and the Bush cabal can’t risk having another Comey-like (at least in their mind) debacle.
With Gonzales remaining as Attorney General, the top law enforcement official in the land, then the Bush cabal can continue to keep hidden all of their traitorous acts and the countless laws they’ve broken in pursuit of these traitorous acts.
Scarecrow – the rest of you guys will just have to use the Time Forward machine.
Redshift @ 163
I’ve often wondered why Pelosi hasn’t chosen exactly the same language Bush and his minions have chosen for dealing with Iran: “All options are on the table.” :)
VG – I think she’s in pretty good shape for now – she got the other cataract done last summer and renewed her license for 5 years (!)… I think we will cross the next DL bridge when we get there… she drives a half mile to the grocery store and 3/4’s to the hair dresser and is getting so she really doesn’t want to do more than that anyway. I have a feeling she will be “self-selecting” to let the license go next time around.
But thanks! that’s good info to know. I don’t want her to stop driving before she needs to, but I must admit (I live about 6 blocks away), I do follow her when I see her driving just to check up on her skills… not too fun, but I sleep well at night.
Redshift @ 163
As with the war, I can live with a loss so long as:
A) They are unified and committed, and
B) The public is behind them.
Even if it is impossible for them to achieve the primary goal, they will achieve the secondary goal of putting the Republicans on the record as being opposed to the will of the voters. It can be a very powerful club for the 2008 elections.
Of course, the secondary goal can also be achieved even if the primary goal is achieved as well, although there won’t be as much popular resentment towards the Republicans (no harm, no foul).
Stephen Parrish,
It’s a funny story. Here’s how Wiki describes it:
Another thing Conyers said this morning — Gonzales is fireable, but they’d just as soon he stuck around another few months so he can lie to Congress. When we all said he’s already liked to Congress, he responded “He’ll like some more.”
LHP Thank you; it is brilliant, and understandable even by me.
To temper our glee…… am I the last to see these?
Raw Story: http://rawstory.com/news/2007/….._0317.html
Salon:
http://www.salon.com/news/feat…../16/aipac/
If we get President Pelosi, one of the more heavily-supported Members by AIPAC, she will stay in Iraq and “do” Iran, trust me! So we are still screwed economically and will go backwards as Russia, India and China cut our lunch.
Dover Bitch @ 171
Hey, at least it shows his familiarity with it…
Eli @ 119
If he American public is educated and public opinion goes the righrt way, The jury may become impartital.
We have to help the jury, in this case the senate to become impartial.
We have to help them remember tha once, when they were young, they weree patriots
O’OldMcCoastie @ 169
That’s good that you are so near. I am 3000 miles away. Apart from the “grocery store” one of the special needs was also “hair dresser”. Our mothers must be different. Mine got a good laugh about this one.
looseheadprop @ 174
Well, it’s like the war. There’s probably roughly as much support for withdrawal as there’s likely to be for impeachment. But the Republicans still aren’t budging.
terry hallinan @ 72
I have two words for McCain. The second one is “off.” Ya think that talk is straight enough for him?
emptywheel @
96
Not to worry, I hung it up 13 years ago! As Mickey Mantle said, “If I knew I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself!” I am.
BTW, my folks were from County Clare. . .
this Senate can’t even pass a nonbinding resolution.
I notice that the past Nov. elections has not seemed to slow the Bush gang. This is why it’s so very important that the Republicans be denied winning the White House in 2008. We must have a winner.
I’m hungry – what’s for dinner?
mommy! tell me the story of how nancy became a 1st woman President! Will you tell me the story about President Pelosi? Pleeeeease!
O’OldMcCoastie @ 182
I don’t know. BTW, what “town” do you live in?
Valley Girl @ 125
Thanks for spending your Saturday night on Mad patrol
Mack @ 130
There is no standard as far as I know, but if we get to a point where that question becomes immenet, I promise to go research it for you
I’m south of Irvine.
looseheadprop @ 185
I have to confess that I am not doing that (sorry rbg et al). Or, are you are speaking of conversing with my mother? That would be apt. Did I say she hates Bush? Often says “Bush and his money men.. etc.”
Evening Professor Prop and Firepups
Eli -
ding ! ding ! ding !
said it about a month ago- doesn’t matter which nether world Darth inhabits – cut off his funds
or better yet
request his presence to justify (staffing numbers anyone ?) OVP Budget- I mean come on, per Addington, it doesn’t fall under POTUS so go ahead on. Now I know he would probably send someone from OMB, but they would still have to come across with headcount and all kinds of other interesting stuffsubpoena his ass
Curious in Central Texas @
105
Can I sit with at the grown up table?
President Pelosi 2007!
O’OldMcCoastie @ 187
thanks. Somehow thought you might be in The Valley.
The Valley is about the other end of the world from here… ’specially during “drive time”
looseheadprop @ 185
I think the standard is whether your vote could cost you re-election…
This sure isn’t what I expected when I voted the str8 Democratic ticket last November. And please, don’t hand me this patience business.
Rayne @ 138
This probably deserves much more notice. Tom Engelhardt wrote about it, as have I.
It’s very possible that the OVP is operating way beyond the pale, with money stolen from various Iraqi sources, and no one has a clue to the extent of that problem.
cbl @ 188
I would love to see the Dems somehow maneuver Cheney into admitting that if executive obligations don’t apply to the OVP, then neither does executive privilege.
Huh?
Eli @ 195
Good point.
Eli sez: I think the standard is whether your vote could cost you re-election…
absolutely. Or your failure to vote for… just depends on how big the shitstorm in going to turn out to be. (edit- be not me)
jayackroyd @ 146
Well, he certainly seems like it.
Though I got accused by someone the other day of having ASpbergers, only w/o the bad side.
Valley Girl @ 198
It works both ways, depending on the color of your state or district. Although I think most states and districts will be trending a lot bluer than usual if more shit hits the fan.
1. Didn’t Bush get Cheney separately allotted funding for his Office….. in which case could it not just be de-funded.
2. I seem to remember reading that Wurmser and Ledeen are involved with ‘The Office of the VP’….
emptywheel @ 199
I have Asshatparger’s, which is similar, but without the upside.
maunga @ 201
All funding derives from Congress–even that for the EOP and OVP. Congress has the power–they just won’t exercise it.
Well… I’m off to Tahlequah (Ta’ligwu) Ok. Should be there in about six hours. Good night. Happy trails. ;0)
montag- Congress needs more exercise.
montag @ 203
I guess they don’t want to be accused of not supporting the troops…
Valley Girl @ 205
Gee, they’ve got that great state-of-the-art gym in the basement…. :)
Valley Girl @ 205
And exorcisms.
Eli @ 208
Guess that explains the pea soup Mean Jean slipped in….
20 Questions About Impeaching a Vice President
21. If the Senate is deadlocked for conviction/acquittal, who breaks the tie ?
I got a big laugh during the live blogging when emptywheel described Addington deciphering Libby’s handwriting: “he has ADD, but I think it refers to me..” or to that effect. For an instant, it sounded like Addington was apologizing for Scooter’s hyperactivity. good memory, that.
have a good one, OKK…
cbl @ 211
Now that is a great question!
I just clicked on the link to 12958, it is signed,
Doesn’t that mean we’re going to soon be hearing, “CLINTON DID IT!” and that it’s all his fault for signing it?
It’s a 2/3 majority – no deadlock possible
cbl @ 211
Valley Girl @ 213
But don’t they need two-thirds? How could there be a tie?
Sorry, I forgot, or never remembered.
Not, wait, it could be 66-33, with JLie not voting.
Eli @ 95
I think that Valerie was an infinitely more valuable target than Joe. She likely knew enough to debunk almost every initiative favored by AIPAC or the oil industry viv-a-vis the Middle East. She knew the lies and she knew the liars.
I can’t imagine why she would not have been identified as a target early in the game.
Valley Girl @ 213
Not really. The VP is only allowed to break ties. 50-50, etc. In the case of impeachment, the Senate must vote a two-thirds majority (67 votes minimum), so there is not a tie to be broken. The VP, in that instance, cannot vote.
Some might argue that a tie is a deadlock, but they are not, fundamentally, the same.
Oh, never mind 66-33 is 2/3.
Cheney is exactly the despot the founders feared for their fragile republic.
time for me to defer to those who know.
TeddySanFran @ 221
Even the founders could not have predicted a Cheney… or a Bush, for that matter.
ccmask @ 145
Thanks,I didn’t realize there were so many members. Why were there so few asking Valerie questions on Friday? Do they choose among themselves who will be present?
cbl @ 211
It’s a two-thirds vote that’s required; either we get the two-thirds or we don’t. No tie to break.
Who presides, however? The Chief Justice presides over Presidential impeachment trials in the Senate; the Veep in his role as President of the Senate over all others.
oh please VG – I’m the ding dong here X~(
sorry y’all
hungrycoyote @
215
Executive Order 13292, which President Bush signed, superseded Executive Order 12958, which was apparently in effect until sometime in 2003.
Boy oh boy, the more I think about it, the more I like it.
Cut off funding to the OVP. His rather sketchy and light duties according to the Constitution make it clear that there is very little funding necessary to sustain the office to the letter of the Constitution. One guy with a desk and a secretary.
Defund everyting else. Jeepers, the man already sucks down an enormous amount of resources because of his health; let’s just tell him because of his healthcare costs, we have to trim the rest of his office expenses.
And then watch the f*cker sit and spin as he does all kinds of illegal stuff to counteract the lack of funding.
Should be an easy sell to Republicans; they don’t like him much more than we do if his JAR is any indication. We’ve already got the justification financially, U.S. Comptroller already said a year ago that discretionary spending was out of hand…and the OVP, by virtue of the nature of its quasi-executive but not fully executive position, is discretionary beyond that called for in the Constitution.
this is excellent, detailed and thoughtful
analysis of the smoke-screens offered by
our sitting vice president to hide his
plame-related activities. . .
i’ll have much more to say here, but to
grossly oversimplify, it can be said that one
important aim of the federal law in this area
is to maintain a centralized-index of all that
the various offices of the government deem
secret, or classified. in this way, there
can be an entirely sensible, coordinated and
orderly approach to making sure that state-
secrets. . . stay that way.
vice president cheney’s office has asserted, in
writing, that his office is, in effect, a fourth
branch of government, and as such, is largely
exempt from the law that governs the other
three “ordinary” branches. the claim
is that the vice president is extra-constitutional.
the sheer audacity of this lie: creating a branch of
government, from whole cloth, out of what most
serious scholars acknowlege is largely a
ceremonial office — the vice president’s — is
breath-taking. the size of this prevarication,
as well as the confidence with which the vice
president’s office asserts the same, suggests he
expects little or no reprobation or correction
from the chief executive.
we — the american people, on the other hand — may not
go along quite so quietly, mr. vice president. . .
excellent work here, looseheadprop!
Valerie testified before the House Comm. on Oversight and Govt. Reform
http://oversight.house.gov/
cbl @ 227
I didn’t know the details either. No apology needed. One of the great things about FDL is that there are so many people who are willing to educate the ignorant masses. ;)
oh and Ms. Rayne – meet your new BFF
http://www.house.gov/spratt/
should have included – this is the guy who brought forth how many support troops would be needed for the so called surge (and is probably Murtha’s closest assoc. in House)
Rayne @ 228
Yup. Remember the flap three years ago about him grossly exceeding his travel budget, and nothing was done about it?
I wouldn’t even give him a desk or a secretary.
Take away his chair and we’re good to go.
One more example of rampant excess gone sour. :)
Oooooh! Nice catch, LHP!
Oh, I like the idea of Darth sitting up in the Naval Observatory, snarling at Lynne as she calls a cab to take her to the Heritage Society or FuxSnooze — “Why can’t I GO anywhere?”
“Well, dear, they’ve cut off your funding, and we need you near the non-portable defibrillator! Besides, the new grandbaby and her mothers are coming over this afternoon to visit. Buh-bye.”
looseheadprop @
52
Oh no sirree… your post did not cause eye glazing. It absolutely brought sunshine to this entire issue, and makes me also want to say Big Hank!
As I was reading this informative post, I was thinking that maybe there should be a link on one side of the page or the other for immediate reference purposes.
LHP, sorry to get here so late, and I haven’t had time to read any of the other comments yet, but I thought this is where Fitz “plenary powers” came in. I thought it was made plain by Comey that he could investigate with the potential to charge any crime that he came across in the pursuit of who and how Plames name was dislosed publicly. I thought that included conspiracy, possible treason, etc., as well as obstruction and perjury. In fact, I was also wondering about something else today, that is: some cases that are investigated never make it to the Grand Jury due to lack of credible evidence. Do you think that this case made it to the Grand Jury because, when he started, Fitz thought he would be able to make a conspiracy case or prove an IIPA case, but that was literally obstructed and permanently derailed when he couldn’t pin Rove down and could only prove perjury and obstruction re: Libby?
TeddySanFran @
227
Please look at question 8 in the link cbl provided for an answer to your question.
Another note:
“As to what the experience taught them, in terms of future covert operations, the participants found: “One, you can’t trust our friends. Two, the C.I.A. has got to be totally out of it. Three, you can’t trust the uniformed military, and four, —-it’s got to be run out of the Vice-President’s office”——a reference to Cheney’s role, the former senior intelligence official said.
(This is also an indictment against the first Bush who ran an illegal, covert operation out of his vice-presidential office, who then became president and pardoned all of his Republican partners in crime. Hmmm, shades of Watergate, except Ford just pardoned Nixon and left all the other criminal Republicans to twist in the wind).
So, what else did the Republicans learn from Iran-Contra and Watergate, two instances in which a whole lot of “culture of corruption” Republicans had to “lawyer-up” and spend a bundle on legal defense?
Starting in the Clinton administration and after the Republicans gained control of Congress, a whole lot of Democrats, including Clinton, had to “lawyer-up” and spend a bundle on legal defense.
This, in my view, is the whole purpose behind the smear campaigns of Democrats by Republicans that began in earnest in the early 1990s…and continue to this day. And it doesn’t matter if the charges made against Democrats have merit or not. Gonzales-controlled U.S. Attorneys? Voter fraud cases?
No, no, no, the purpose of this insidious Republican tactic is to tie-up Democrats in litigation, requiring lots of money, no matter how specious the charges really are. The more money Democrats have to spend on defending themselves against spurious, right-wing concocted charges means less money for political campaigns.
Hillary Clinton got it right in the early 1990s and reaffirmed it just the other day: there is a vast, right-wing conspiracy…meant to subvert our democratic institutions and replace them with an authoritarian, monopolistic, totalitarian Republican-run police state.
This EVIL that has taken over the Republican Party, and permeates our freedom-loving democratic society, is centered in Dick Cheney and all the neo-con Republicans in government intent on being Public Masters instead of Public Servants. I’ve got their number. Have you?
cbl (233) — ooooh. Sexy. Just loves me a man with a receding hairline, a big (D) after his name and a thing for cutting costs. Mmm-mmm.
Will have to write him a love letter right away, telling him how very hot it would be to cut costs in the OVP’s shop…
Oh, and on the Armed Services’ Committee, too. Bet you he could see the sense in shifting monies from the overweighted OVP to, oh, say, veteran’s care. Watch Cheney the chickenhawk with the best medical care in the world try to pitch a bitch about that one. Heh.
This reminds me of LHP’s earlier discussions about discouraged legal patriots within DoJ:
John Solomon’s got a ways to go to be rehabbed in my view; but maybe his writing teammates are pushing him in the right direction.
Rayne @ 229
Oh! I LOVE THIS!
Tell him his job could be offshored for a third the cost.
The authority and secrecy arguments are part of the facade Mr. Cheney has built to cover the obvious. He runs the government. Mr. Bush is the manipulable ego that struts and frets, but because of his weaknesses – he is emotionally dependent, he doesn’t or can’t read, he doesn’t know Washington, his connections are really his father’s, etc. – cannot operate independently of Rove and Cheney.
Mr. Cheney’s vulnerability is that his powers are derivative. The president must have unlimited power so that Mr. Cheney can act without disclosure or accountability.
Mr. Waxman’s hearings, on top of the Libby conviction and its release of facts, may be the kryptonite we’ve been looking for. SuperC belongs in jail. A good start would be to take away his invulnerability. His violation of law regarding the treatment and reporting of classified info may be key.
Anticipating this, Cheney will rely on a “color of law” argument. He relied on advice of counsel: any actions found to violate the law were not intentional, and therefore do not constitute crimes. His ego and his need to exact payback may ultimately gut that defense.
Still smiling from Friday’s oversight committee broadcast.
I was proud to watch Valerie Wilson torpedo the Republican talking point lies yesterday.
And it was so nice to listen to a witness speak plainly. No need for us to second guess the message, for once.
Annoyed that one of the Republican Representatives seemed to be asking questions with an eye toward the Wilson’s civil suit: were you impaired from advancing to the next pay grade at the CIA? What?!
Victoria T. was a trip. Glad to hear Waxman bluntly tell her at the end that they would fact check her!
SPCPA,
#8 -
Iran Contra – a not so veiled threat to Bush 41
TeddySanFran @ 237
HAAAAA!
cbl @ 210
Jane *g*
Rayne – I actually did write Congressman Spratt a mash note (fax) cc’d: Murtha – suggested OVP budget cut or threat of same to bring the beast to heel :)
given the fact that Cheney won his round in the Supreme Court re the Energy Task force, I can’t see anyone taking away his power short of impeachment by the Congress. And seeing as how this Congress is made up of scared little rabbits, I’m not hopeful of removing Crazy Dick. There’s 21 months left on this nightmare.
LHP- thanks again for all of your great great FDL contributions.
Valley Girl @
219
That’s conviction. It’s senators voting, not the ones in attendance.
I’m pretty sure of this. 65-33 with Joe abstaining and Johnson still in the hospital is the acquittal scenario.
When you’re entertaining these joyous speculations, do recall that there are 21 class II (up in 08) republican senators. A couple of them–Sununu (NH) and Smith (OR) are already bleeding pretty badly. Hagel may not run. Warner (VA) may not run. Collins (ME) will hear a lot about Bill Cohen’s role in the Watergate House Judiciary meetings. And her flipping on term limiting herself. Mainers hate stuff like that.
If hearings show persistent, consistent wrongdoing, the President may get a visit much like Nixon did from, I believe it was, Goldwater, saying that Bush doesn’t have the votes.
Domestic events could lead to this. But so could, say, an attack on the Green Zone. Or just no apparent progress in Iraq by October, coupled with domestic events, could well lead to a number of Senators concluding that if they want to keep their seats, they have to throw him under the bus.
The way that would probably play out is that they’d make Cheney resign, replace him with the preferred presidential candidate by the string pullers, and then have Bush resign. Or put in a placeholder like Scowcroft or Hagel who would promise not to run for reelection. There’s no way you’re gonna get President Pelosi.
But there’s a lot of scandal out there. EW, digby, kagroX and others have mentioned that the Gonzalez 8 looks bigger and more damaging to the nation than Libby. Literally the entire US attorney system could be called into question. And we haven’t even started with who got wire-tapped and why.
Bush is in a very great deal of trouble, and the Senate republicans may have to choose between him and losing their supermajority check. (This is also why we’re stuck with Lieberman for the duration. There’s a good chance of picking up enough seats to get a supermajority, which would leave him powerless.)
You won’t see me talking much about the presidential candidates. Except maybe grumble at Clinton. But there’s a lot going on in the Senate. You can’t gerrymander a Senate seat.
thanks, lhp, for yet another fine post that translates legal into plain language.
lina @ 249
The only upside is if we can tie Bush & Cheney, and the enabling thereof, around the Republicans necks in 2008.
I wonder if that might be part of the drag on McCain’s poll numbers. Rudy *hasn’t* been enabling Bush for the past six years.
Pach has his Gaydar on upstairs
Professor LHP – if you are still here
recall soon after the verdict and just before the USA story completely blew up
you made a comment in the threads about 3 situations DOJ and/or former DOJ had issues with – egregious guessed one of them – do you recall what I am talking about ?
have been burning up memory cells trying to find it in threads w/ no luck to date, but you are looking prescient as all get out
LHP,
I have been catching up on the comments here. Good information and thread that will be valuable down the road as we get Waxman and Conyers to corral these critters.
cbl @ 247
Thanks, SP,CPA — and I wondered at the timing of this as well. Could there have been thoughts about Bush1, or was this a housekeeping item? How did it come to pass?
SharonRB @ 87
Ditto… LHP, this was a wonderfully enlightening post, you just keep impressing me, along with the rest of the FDL posters, and many of the commentors. Also, just a note to let the whole FDL crew know I started a blog, (photos onthe bottom)and linked it to this site, along with some of the other “usual suspects,” I’ve got it listed as my website in the entry box provided, and linked it here in the text, so you should be able to get to it. If you get a free moment, “click me…”
I hope to add my voice to the many who blog for “the cause.”
Thanks again, to everyone at FDL, you folks have made history.
Oracle, Wow! Good stuff. Now I’ll bet OklahomaKiddo is prepared to vote for Clinton.
Seriously, this is SO scarey.
Eli @ 253
Umm, Rudy’s a lying asshole. That’s why `pugs love him. He’s an even bigger liar than McCain, hence his popularity….
Rudy: “I’ll whore myself out to anybody that will help me win, and I’ll do it better than any of my opponents.” [Cheers and huzzahs in the background]
Terry Olson @ 225
Friday was Government Oversight not Judiciary
Hey lhp — you’ve got another post already in the request queue, right after addressing Stephen Parrish’s query comparing the two different EO’s.
How about one on Section 793, the Espionage Act? We could whack that mad dog Miss Vicky with it and make sure that Congress and the corporate media were on notice that the public is fully aware of its applicability.
;-)
I would like to bring attention to The New Standard, from which Loosehead quoted extensively.
This is a fantastic online paper. They are 100% non-profit. They don’t have ads on their site. They are fully reader-supported. And they have some excellent news stories, such as the one in this original post.
They have been in operation for over a year (not sure when they started up…), and I had NEVER heard of them until someone happened to link to them on another politico board this week.
They are in serious need of ideas on how to get the buzz about them.
Disclaimer: I am in no way associated with TNS. I really would like to see them be successful!
Here is their blog with contact info for anyone interested in giving a few brain cells to their quest for buzz ideas:
New Standard Request for Buzz Ideas
I sent them a letter with a few ideas and got the nicest warm response from them. My main idea was to allow people like moi to print out articles on paper and distribute them in my community (they have a toy on the site that allows you to click the articles you want to print all at once to take with you on the train or whatever.)
That’s my thing — I want to reach the people who aren’t looking for the real news. You know… the regular parent who works one or two jobs, isn’t registered to vote (yet!), is just really too removed from their civic responsibilities to even have an opinion on what is happening to their country. Cause IF THEY KNEW (via people like us giving them the news/information in printed format, they would BECOME civic heroes. I believe that.
Give The New Standard some love! The article in the OP is EXCELLENT.
Just an idea: Since FDL has quoted so extensively from TNS, I would sure like to see an OP giving them props and some attention some time.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 147
That would be the man who won your State in the 2004 Presidential primary. ;)
perris @
127
I wonder if bush will brag about this execution too! The press needs to ask why Scooter isn’t being tried for treason. It does not matter who leaked first Scooter Rove Armitage, Novak they are all guilty and should fry! Yet I’m sure the bushes,dean brodurs,bobo brooks of the world will all cry for mercy seeing themselves reflected as Scooter. Empathy and mercy for themselves but none for those who are differnt. This human is like us the rules apply to control other people atitude suggests socialPATHETIC behaviour.
pdaly @ 246
Turn that smile into rip-roaring laughter and watch this clip of Rep. Westmoreland:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/…..html#a8728
Colbert destroyed the guy so bad, you almost start feeling sorry for the Georgia Congressman…ALMOST. Westmoreland even referred to himself as a “Do Nothing-er.” I think we should just refer to him by that name from now on. I wonder if his “tough guy” performance at the hearing on Fri was somewhat prompted by his performance on The Colbert Report? His male ego musta been hurtin’ after that embarrassment!
TeddySanFran @
259
I don’t know.
Ann in AZ @ 238
I get into this in posts on Sunday and Monday.
No, th eplenary powers ae not nearly as vast as you beleive
What a great post. More like this, please.
mbbsdphil @ 245
And Rumsfeld still has an office and staff in the Pentagon. How does this fit in?
Okay, I’m glad your doing a post on this, because I’ve been wondering about it for a long time. But what about the second part of my question. Do you think that Fitz took this to the Grand Jury because he was hoping to prove, say conspiracy? How do you think that got derailed, just due to Libby?
Rayne @
264
She’s already started on 18 USC 793 to some extent in her post above; subsections (d) and (e) are quite relevant.
looseheadprop @
151
I will hold my breath! It will be worth it. The looseheadprop Institute of Constitutional Law for Firepups. Yeah! Our thinktanks look different than theirs.
cbl @ 256
I keep the crystal ball in my sock drawer
CitizenSpook also points out that Fitz alluded to these being crimes committed in a “time of war” during his closing… for which there is a mandatory death sentence.
Just thought I’d mention that.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 273
She did…and you can tell, can’t you, that she has more to say on the topic?
lhp held back because she could have written a book on this stuff once she got started. Can’t wait for the next installments!
Rayne @
277
Will Vaster Books publish the book? :)
Rumsfeld continuing to have an office in Arlington, staffed by Pentagon people, is supposedly a “transition office”. This is unusual. Former SecDefs usually leave the building and become as hard to find as Elvis.
Rumsfeld has tens of millions. He could easily make more by hitting the AEI lecture circuit. His office is really about Cheney protecting his own and showing that he can.
Cheney has a hundred or more others in his DC patronage network, and this is very important to do. Otherwise, cooperation thins and the data on those hard drives suddenly becomes recoverable as people scatter and start worrying about their families instead of their careers. Like Scooter.
lhp, anytime you apologize for a long or geeky post, it almost is a guarantee that you’ve just written something especially interesting. The kind of analysis that you and the rest of FDL provide is the reason I turn on my computer most days.
Thank you for shining sunshine on some of the dirtiest government dealings this country has ever known. Which reminds me, next protest I go to, I’m bringing some pots and pans to bang for Molly.
jen @
266
Kucinch won Oklahoma in the 2004 primaries?
zhiv @
20
Well, if it’s any consolation, I read and appreciated what you had to say :)
looseheadprop @
52
My eyes are still bright.
Fitzgerald was right to be cautions; many of these violations are obvious, but very hard to prove. The NIE de-classification, for example, may have been after the fact or not documented, but if Shrub backs Cheney up, there’s no case.
Unless Shrub is squeaky clean, unlikely, and suddenly develops emotional independence from his faux daddy, equally unlikely, he would never give up Cheney. If nothing else, like Stalin’s chauffeur, Cheney knows where too many bodies are buried.
The classification problems should give Cheney more vulnerability. But as discussed above, the clock is running, and its a hard sell to the public that these are serial violations worth toppling the govt over. Even if they are considerably more important to our structure of govt than Bill Clinton’s extra-marital sex life.
I still think their conduct is deeply wrong and deeply embarrassing, and worth documenting and exposing. But the Dems just have to crank up the PR machine, along with the investigators, to explain why.
Along the way, Dems are upping the ante for their own govt. They will be held to higher standards than anything they hold Republicans to, because the Repubs are betting at smearing.
More importantly, Dems cannot lose sight of their need to make clear what kind of govt they are for, not just the excesses they are fighting against.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 181
—————————————
There is an article in WaPo today about the Pentagon’s plan to have the war on terror finished in time for the 2008 election. (sorry I don’t have the cite). Wonder how they plan to do that. But it was just another example of the Bushies’ cynical manipulations and attempt to manipulate any and everything to their advantage. Makes me sick.
Thanks to Barbara in Montana for epistle to
“Big Hank” and thanks to LHP for this fascinating post.
Regarding the assertion that Pelosi would keep us in Iraq and attack Iran was startling; I wondered what the writer was basing his assertion on; surely not, for all our sakes.
Here’s my hope: Defunding of the war; return of the troops by end of year; no permanent bases in Iraq, no attack on Iran, end of coddling Israel and give support for Palestinians, impeachments of Bush/Cheney very soon and the dismissal of all the cabinet and all of the VPs’s/Bush’s appointed minions across the board. That’s what I want
and I really don’t think it’s too much to ask in my world. And how about all of it happening within a month? Well I can dream, can’t I.
Blessings to all,
Pat actually alluded to it at the post verdict press conference
Care to elaborate on or at least even cite the relevant passage of that?
cbl @ 211
The 20 questions are fascinating! Hooray for Dr. Mary Maxwell. Question no 1 suggests that
VP could be impeached and tried in one day between the house and senate proceedings, provided that political conditions are right.
Qustion 20 has to do with Rodriguez VS. Bush, Cheney and others, that accuses the government of committing crimes related to Sept. 11. Will have to look that up on the internet.
Is there a comparable 20 questions document for impeaching a president?
lhp/Parrish re #100
The OVP as separate entity not clearly part of exec branch is subject of Sy Hersch in New Yorker, to wit:
“The Bush Administration’s reliance on clandestine operations that have not been reported to Congress and its dealings with intermediaries with questionable agendas have recalled, for some in Washington, an earlier chapter in history. Two decades ago, the Reagan Administration attempted to fund the Nicaraguan contras illegally, with the help of secret arms sales to Iran. Saudi money was involved in what became known as the Iran-Contra scandal, and a few of the players back then—notably Prince Bandar and Elliott Abrams—are involved in today’s dealings.
Iran-Contra was the subject of an informal “lessons learned” discussion two years ago among veterans of the scandal. Abrams led the discussion. One conclusion was that even though the program was eventually exposed, it had been possible to execute it without telling Congress. As to what the experience taught them, in terms of future covert operations, the participants found: “One, you can’t trust our friends. Two, the C.I.A. has got to be totally out of it. Three, you can’t trust the uniformed military, and four, it’s got to be run out of the Vice-President’s office”—a reference to Cheney’s role, the former senior intelligence official said. …snip
http://www.newyorker.com/printables/f…..fact_hersh
at 289 that is 3-5-07 New Yorker
Oklahoma kiddo @
147
ReElect President Gore in 2008. Accept no substitute.
Oh dear – where did everybody go – hope my repetitious blogwhoring for the winner of the first Bush election hasn’t bored everyone to sleep.
Heroine Marcy – any news afoot that you might do a west coast book tour. The Friends of the Stowitts Museum are waiting with bated breath to welcome you as special guest of honor at their weekend Salons for authors in our beautiful galleries. Markos and Jerome were here last spring for a salon and it was standing room only, plus sales of a whole bunch of their book.
We’re between LA and SF/Berkeley on the tip of the beautiful Monterey Peninsula.
I wrote to Waxman talking about 13292, and how Davis blurred the distinction between the declassification authority of the Prez and Veep under that order. Shooter claims he has insta-declassification authority — at least, he did to Brit Hume — but that’s never been properly scrutinised.
E.O. 13292 is important because it changes the powers of the Veep from that of an agency head to (in classification terms, at least) that of the Preznit’s equal. And because it was issued in March 2003.
chuteh >
I would suggest that this idea of the VPOTUS being involved in intelligence “activities” also goes back to Nixon as VPOTUS (can you say Bay of Pigs ?)
“Politics is just high school with guns and more money” – Frank Zappa
looseheadprop @
60
Wow. Maybe someone has already covered this downstairs from 60, but I can’t wait to plow through them all:
If this is the case, then the only way this administration could AVOID the chance of a President Pelosi is for Dick to retire real quick– at any rate, before any such charges could be brought before the house, and in time for Giddy George to select a new Veep. Of course, they probably think they could beat the rap. But this argument raises stunning prospects for several very tumultuous months!
Now to finish reading…
Bob in HI
There is a delicious string begging to be pulled. “Treat As TopSecret/SCI” is a direct line either to source of authority or fraud impinging on National Security statutes.
Any outsider familiar with Security nomenclature will quake having an “/SCI” appendage Sensitive Compartmented Information in his hands.It will be taken, at the very least, as a test of the reader’s own bona fides and so he MUST report that his eyes saw the doc. He will not dare to fail to report the [apparently] obvious breach, thus getting others involved. He will get smoothly “handled” by others from afar.
Very clever gambit to invent “Treat As…”. Too clever, bec this points to professional level operation, originating beyond OVP.
Redshift @
152
This only underscores the urgency of my theory @ 295 about what the WH must do to head off a Pelosi presidency. The sooner Cheney “retires,” the more chance Bush has of getting a Republican successor to Cheney as VP installed before the deluge. I’ll bet this is becoming a Pepto-Bismol week (month?) for the WH.
Bob in HI
I’m sorry I got to this thread so late, LHP. That’s a very good summary of the rules as I understand them. I was unaware that Cheney had not reported the documents he classified or declassified. As I stated many months ago, he’s allowed to classify and declassify documents (in the latter case, only the documents he’s classified, in contrast to the President), but there are procedures he must follow when he does it. To say I’m shocked to learn this is an understatement. I suppose I really shouldn’t be, but I’ve worked with that system for two decades – it’s hard to believe anyone could get away with this.
EO 13292 is the superceding document, BTW. Maybe someone pointed that out already. That’s the document that gave Cheney the power to classify and declassify documents. Before that, the President had to do it for him.
I would suggest that this idea of the VPOTUS being involved in intelligence “activities” also goes back to Nixon as VPOTUS (can you say Bay of Pigs ?)
You’re a hoot. Indeedy, VP Nixon under Ike and VP GHWB under Reagan established and demonstrated the viable path.
I can recall FDR’s death and Truman’s succession under which, I learned much later, Allen Dulles [mostly] wrote the draft charter for the CIA [Truman approved in 1947] expecting his cohort Dewey would be elected 1948. Truman surprised and Dewey lost. So the legalese and Table of Organization flowed from Office of Strategic Services/lawyer Dulles, ready for use under cohort Dewey, but there was a 4-year impediment until Ike came and his VP Nixon learned about covert possibilities.
montag @
195
Previous sources I’ve read says that the slush fund is primarily Saudi money, but you could be right.
Say, have you ever wondered what Elliot Abrams is doing in the WH? Remember during Iran Contra they were hard pressed to come up with funds to support the Contras. You can’t run a decent black bag operation without adequate funds that Congress cannot touch. My guess is that Abrams’ chief portfolio is managing the off-budget slush fund that I heard about: ensuring a steady stream of income from Saudi or Iraqi sources, positioning funds for Cheney’s Dark Forces to use, etc. Wouldn’t you love to have Abrams’ phone log and email dump?
Bob in HI
montag @
204
Except for the off-the-books slush funds that OVP has established with Saudi help, that do not depend on Congressional authorization, and so are not vulnerable to Congressional oversight and de-funding. Unfortunately, I can’t remember where I read about that recently.
Bob in HI
cbl @
211
The Chief Justice, who presides at any impeachment in the Senate.
Bob in HI
Eli @ 76
hysterical! just what i needed to know!
No-one could have predicted
kindest regards and deep gratitude for your delicious post, LHP. i feel confidant that our fire pups have high info dose tolerance for your wonderful and inspirational articles.
i like your stuff a lot and look forward to more.
you rock.
thanks.
looseheadprop @
60
“Simulpeachment” is the word you’re looking for. I invented it a couple years back just for these two assclowns.
N’est-ce pas? S’il vous plait.
newspaperbrat @
292
Ohh, I love that area.
Will you email me: emptywheel at gmail dot com?
Hey Marcy—
Not sure newspaperbrat is going to hear you, her comment was from last night. We’re over at the bird thread, er, Sunday talking heads thread, join us there.
————egr
awww. is it too late to guess? just catching up from yesterday. will leave my 2 cents up thread for LHP.
looseheadprop @
7
Agree. perfect picture of mommy and pnut.
This is so much better.
Dover Bitch @
171
Oh, so late and will probably not ever get an answer… but what is the loophole?
It’s that the amendment clause can be amended.