I was so happy that Henry Waxman opened the hearing up with remarks from George Bush Sr. regarding leakers (video here):
"I have nothing but contempt and anger for those who expose the names of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious of traitors."
I've always felt there was a strong father/son rivalry that was an element to this case that has largely gone unexplored, and that should certainly get Junior's (Pet) Goat.
Valerie Plame was luminous and helped in no small part by the fact that she is smart, sincere, professional and articulate (not to mention gorgeous). The administration was not done any favors by the Republicans defending it on the panel, most spectaculalry by Congressman Lynn Westmoreland, who came out and admitted he'd never questioned a spy before and then proceeded to act like he was chatting her up at a bar. Westmoreland had already given us a demonstration of his intellectual acumen on the Colbert Report, when — as co-sponsor of the Ten Commandments bill — he couldn't name them. He was in his usual resplendent form today.
The big news of the day, however, came from Dr. James Knodell, who — as Director of the Office of Security at the The White House — admitted that there has been absolutely no investigation into the leaking of Plame's identity by employee Karl Rove. To say the response from the committee was shock would be an understatement.
Toensing's testimony was rife with what could charitably be considered "inaccuracies." She claimed knowledge of Plame's status she freely admitted she could not have had, having not spoken to either the CIA nor Plame on the topic, and she also claimed that Grenier had given her name as Valerie Plame (he hadn't). Waxman seemed to be aware of this as he closed out the proceedings, thanking the administration's spokesman (and ComPost contributor) for her time, promising that her statements would be fact checked. I'm sure Marcy will be doing much the same here tonight.
Curiosly, the juror who was dismissed from the Libby trial — a woman in a short blond bob — was at the hearings, and spent most of Toensing's testimony glaring at the back of her head. Toensing may have spent most of her time dissembling at the request of the minority and trying to steal everyone else's time, but at least there was a nice visual metaphor about how the rest of us felt about the whole thing.
Update: How could I forget the NIE declassification? And the Niger forgeries? Committee members also expressed a desire to open up the shilling done by Republicans on the SSCI committee, who openly distorted what happened with regard to the Wilsons and Joe's trip to Niger. Let's hope they follow up on all of these things. I certainly did not see this as the last hearing necessary to get to the bottom of this mess.
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Valerie! Jane!
That hearing makes me want to buy everyone a round of martinis…who’s drinking?
JANE!
what a great day!
Waxman! Valerie!
Wow. Just. Wow.
ya’ll is da bomb
I wonder if Dismissed Juror had a copy of the Toensing op-ed mysteriously shoved under her door on the weekend before she left the case?
Toesuck’s moment in the spotlight managed to puncture the balloon of bullshit, showing that she haughtily claims authority on little more than Beltway gossip.
tell us more!
Thank you all for covering this!! I had neither sound nor the time to watch the proceedings. The many comments were illuminating, and, often, hilarious!
(((((Jane!)))))
Anybody got any info on the Pink Moron?
You’re right, Jane – Knodell’s admission was key. Closest yet to a Butterfield moment. I sense that when the hearing is continued we will have a true Butterfield event. I’d rate Knodell’s admission as .7 on the Butterfield scale.
VALERIE AND JOE, WE LOVE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Toensing confirms that those on her side of the debate believe that unless one is convicted beyond a reasonable doubt, by a jury of which she approves in a case brought by a prosecutor whose judgement matches hers, there is nothing to see here and we should all move along. So much for duty, honor and the American way.
Dog
Waxman!!
Also a shout-out to my rep Van Hollen — ya did us proud!
That Pink Dink is being used to make a visual farce of the hearing by Hack Drudge.
Nice work pink-hole.
-GSD
This means of following the proceedings serves me best of all the available options, and I really appreciate it. I’d never have be able to listen to or watch them myself, even recorded, and MSM would only serve up a soundbite. This way I can follow them as the occur, with the understanding that these are not transcripts, and while some editorializing is going to be part of the process I get a much more complete view of what’s taking place than I could any other way.
That having been said, IMPEACH CHENEY. Thank you.
Has the art curator been heard from yet?
Twisted I’m drinking Long Island Ice Teas as we speak, come on everyone-Bounce Your Boobies!!!
The Pink guy was just some dick.
See my deconstruction of the IIPA statute, and why Toestink’s claim that it only applies to CIA covert agents resident abroad, is incorrect, in the prior thread.
Time for a Loud Mouth Soup.
Rumor has it that Victoria Toensing has a fake tooth that contains a cyanide capsule to be used in an emergency. The capsules are provided to all Party loyalist.
Hey Jane:
Have a great weekend…Thanks much for founding FDL. There’s no other blog like it. Period. As LHP said: a virtual think tank.
Hey Jane! Hope you are comfortable and enjoying the post-hearing glow.
“……by the fact that she is smart, sincere, professional and articulate (not to mention gorgeous).”
A very nice description of Valerie Plame. The same words also describe you Jane!
I like the placement of the PoliticsTV logo.
Bluetoe- I am not surprised by that, but I am LOL
Jane, all the best to you. Hope you enjoyed today’s festivities.
Did I miss something or did Toensing just flat out lie under oath? Is there some legal interpretation of Plame’s status that I’m not understanding?
Toestink is despicable. I hope Waxman goes after her sorry lame butt!
David Baerwald- She lied about her age for one thing!! Love your music, too!!!
Well, thanks!
Henry Waxman did seem to question Toensing’s veracity. They gave her the rope and she put her head in the noose.
In honor of St Patty’s day, I’ll even buy a Guinness!
Did I miss something or did Toensing just flat out lie under oath? Is there some legal interpretation of Plame’s status that I’m not understanding?
OK lawyers, seemed to me she framed everything as her “opinion”. Can she be prosecuted for that?
It does seem that the point around which the hearing, that trial and those other disclosures are moving is simply impeachment.
After hearing testi-lying from Discredited Republican Operative Vicky “T-Bag” Toensing I have come to two conclusions.
Firstly her chair should be thoroughly Febrezed.
Secondly the hearing room should be exorcized by some Mayan Priests.
-GSD
EPU’d
hard to keep up today, wanted everyone to know=====
OT
just heard on NPR ari shapiro;
abu’s former cheif of staff kyle sampson has a new position,
in legislative section of environmental division
no kidding, they re=employed him
and thanks to all who live-blogged, i REALLY appreciated it…….no cable, on dial-up, a friend is taping it for me tonight, so i can see it later…….
now going back to catch up on comments
SWEEET! That was the juror?!?!
so i couldn’t see toensing’s testimony. she continued to say that plame’s status was noncovert even after the head of the cia confirmed she had been?
How. Is. That. Possible?
and why did the committee let her get away with it?
I loved Waxman’s categorization of Toensing’s testimony – that she would interpret the words so narrowly to make them fit her story.
Thanks, bluetoe. We’re getting snowed in here in CT, I’m trying to find someone to plow the drive before we get blocked in but it was a real boost to watch the hearings today.
Nap? Never heard of ‘em.
Is it me or does Mr. Waxman remind me of a character actor from the movies and tv?
No investigation into the leaking of Plame’s identity by employee Karl Rove? I’m sure Bush will be shocked! hahahahahaha
I loved the women in PINK. She stood up at just the right moments to get the message across. It was a wonderful tableau. Won’t be on POX News. But then again they won’t cover this. Frankly, I’m very surprised they allowed her in the room with something like IMPEACH BUSH NOW on her chest. She also had something written on her back and on the silly crown she was wearing. Before the Dems took over she would have been out of there.
There was also a guy who put up a sign written on a newspaper that said GOT IMPEACHMENT? And just after he showed it to the camera some one in the audience yelled IMPEACH CHENEY FIRST.
A far cry from when the protesters during the Iran Contra investigastion tried to yell info to the members and were escorted out.!!!!
Knodell was going to mount an investigation but he had first to arrange a golf date with OJ to learn how to seek out the real culprits.
Topanga-lib , She, you better adjust your tv.
Knodell looked he was gonna need one of those little hemorrhoid cushions for later.
I’m in upstate NY at the moment (out by Binghamton) and we’re supposed to get 10-22″ of snow during the rest of the day.
Humpty Dumptysville….
watertiger @39 –
Yep, that was the art curator. I think Pach talked with her afterward.
As soon as Marcy gets WiFi she’s gonna lay into Toensing. Popcorn!
Shorter T-Bag Toensing.
Don’t listen to the Director of National Intelligence on the status of CIA spies, listen to me because I knew Barry Goldwater back in the 60’s.
-GSD
I thought the Pink Guy was a gal.
spew alert!
(glad I’m only drinking mate…)
IIPA does not determine who is covert and who is not covert. The CIA grants that status.
The IIPA determines the conditions under which the leak of a CIA covert employee can be prosecuted. For example, if the CIA covert employee hasn’t not traveled outside the USA in five years, and therefore is considered inactive – the leaker cannot be prosecuted under IIPA BUT wait! Plame asserted she had traveled out of the country in the five years prior to the leak of her identity.
And what about this executive order that says anyone who leaks this information, even if only by accident or recklessly, they are subject to consequences.
With apologies to Rep Cummings and not to diminish at all what Valerie Plame’s been put thru by the outrageous conduct of WH operatives and their journalist-fellow travelers, we mustn’t lose sight that this isn’t about Valerie Plame. It’s about the work product. Not the covert officer, but that officer’s networks and intelligence gathering and information and future credibility.
That’s why the CIA referred it to Justice. That’s why this matters so much. That’s why hearings and accountability are long overdue. That’s why Scooter should burn in hell prison for throwing sand in Fitzgerald’s eyes.
Because Bush and Rove and Chee-knee and Novak and Libby and Matalin and the rest of the WHIG and their media apologists from Toensing to Hannity and Limbaugh and their ilk should be held to account and shame down thru history.
Because they didn’t just assault and betray one woman and her husband. They assaulted and betrayed America.
Raven.
LOL.
-GSD
I thought it was great how they made Noodle look so stupid, it was like he didn’t even know what his job is/was.
So Jane, who would you cast as Victoria?
EPU’d from below. Sorry to keep repeating this, but I figure with the accumulated Plame knowledge here, there’s a good chance someone knows it off the top of their head. If not, for the sake of completeness it might be worth tracking down if for no other reason than to add to the documentation of all the, ahem, factually challenged assertions by Toensing.
The one thing I’d like to see followed up is her claim that the CIA threatened another journalist (I heard “Winer”, but could have gotten that wrong, maybe Sanger?) with criminal prosecution if he published Plame’s name. She was claiming that the CIA was being negligent by not making the same threat to Novak. I’d really like to know what she was talking about. Likely it’s just another case of her saying something that isn’t true, but it sounds interesting.
This was at about 2:01pm EDT, for those with access to the tapes.
HE?????
That is even funnier!
Tap Duncan. Don’t know his name but in “Cold Turkey” (1969)Big Hank resembles the actor playing the right-wing head of the local milita caught up in his newly granted authority to police the smoking ban.
There was no investigation in the White House on the outing of a covert CIA operative because their true interest was not that of national security but trying to provide cover for their false intelligence. In that regard their ultimate goal was accomplished therefore no need for an internal investigation on the outing.
I thought the Pink Guy was a gal.
If you can stand it check Drudge, there are 2 screen caps up there.
oops – let out teh funny:
Snowing like crazy here in NY, mid-Hudson valley. But I have this warm glow….
Be well, Jane!!!
GSD @ 37
ROFL! (and that’s a good idea. Spray with holy water, too.)
I imagine seats for those hearing were pretty dear. How did the Libby juror manage to get one,I wonder.
.
If you do get snowed in Jane, can’t the poodles double as sled dogs?
The pink people at the hearing sucked. Period.
This was a day for truth, not grandstanding by protestors.
The protestors were a distraction from all that was important about the hearing.
I have no idea what organization they were associated with, but I suspect possible double tricks.
Exactly, JH: okay, interesting, now where are we again?
…because it’s all happening and coming down so fast that I’m pretty dizzy.
Highlights: JH mentions, by the way, gorgeous. Could obviously say a lot more, along with spy story central casting at Bond girl level, but let’s just move on.
To Rep. Davis. Showing that he knows how to ask questions and form coherent (biased, but still) thoughts, which begs the question: was this guy the chairman of the oversight committee this whole time? Assuming that he was, this guy is a truly disgusting disgrace of a human being.
Lynn, chatting up Val at the bar (lol) was purely comic, and another highlight was the big glowing smile she gave him, kind of like “you do know how highly skilled I am at this game, don’t you? You’re the one who ends up telling me everything you know, not the other way around.”
I guess I keep getting distracted, but in the end it was just so refreshing to hear the truth, real questions and statements, people who are angry and unwilling to listen to lies and spin.
Need to take a little break to get ready for the Friday afternoon doc dump, news dump, general spew that will go down over the next couple of hours…
Just checked Drudge
Your right it was a guy!!!!!
Victoria Toensing could not have made it more obvious that she was there to spin for the administration. Babs should have invested in a couple of acting lessons. When she beamed that aside about Barry Goldwater, the great libertarian, I thought I’d throw up. Not needin’ to telegraph your sympathies to the viewing audience much, eh Vicky?
Have long respected Mr. Waxman; after today, I love him.
As for the Pink Person, my first thought was that it was Judith Guiliani, as so few people wear tiaras these days. But she’s smaller, so I figured it was Rudy, playing dress-up again.
XYX,
I am with you. Prostesters are fine, but there is also a time to stop with the attention grabbing and let the facts and the process do the talking.
Pink Dink go home.
-GSD
AZ Matt- I say Charlize Theron, she’s the only blonde actress that might be prettier than the Valerie herself. IMHO, and I might be wrong, but I doubt it.
I wonder how much the going rate is these days for being a
paid Judas shill“witness” for the “it’s OK to betray covert CIA officers” dumfense?Vicki baby, you so earned your 30 pieces of silver!
‘Course, it beats having an honest job!
Go Marcy!
Hectic morning! Hated to go to physical therapy this morning – missed the beginning of Toensing. When I tried to get out of the driveway, there were three moose blocking the way. I honked and they just stayed, so I went back to my shop and let my faithful Strider out. He just stared at them, but they got the point and moved on.
When I got back, my shop roof was starting to blow off (it has been blowing between 25 and 80 here for WEEKS – coldest March and coldest winter on record in AK). But instead of getting up there and doing emergency repairs, I went back inside and turned on C-SPAN and firedoglake. My dog watched the end of the hearing with me.
Time to deal with the roof!
TBogg points us to the reaction of conservatard Dan Riehl:
It gets worse after that.
IANAL, but she sure as hell did.
And Waxman not only knew it, but called her on it — that’s why he said he was leaving her testimony “open” so it could be fact-checked.
Vicky’s spent the last couple decades of her life lying without consquence, to paraphrase Vince Foster. She’s now about to see what consequences look like.
So Jane, who would you cast as Victoria?
Veronica Cartwright. she does icky so well.
Toensing was forced into conceding that she is speaking only for within the very specific language of the IIPA, when she claims Plame was “not covert.”
There’s not much room for her to “stretch” in those confines – maybe she is wrong even in that small space?
I love the line Vicki T throws out that covert agents don’t have desk jobs. And every agent she talks to confirms it. Can’t you just hear that conversation…
“Desk job – I don’t have a desk job. I’m undercover. I don’t need no stinkin’ desk. I don’t even need a chair. All I need is a bed of nails and a blanket.”
Fascinating stuff.
I smell treason in the air.
Scooter Himmler, Dick Himmler, Karl Himmler and George Himmler.
Those wacky Himmler boys.
Releasing classified information yet again!
The pink people at the hearing sucked. Period.
This was a day for truth, not grandstanding by protestors.
The protestors were a distraction from all that was important about the hearing.
I have no idea what organization they were associated with, but I suspect possible double tricks.
I know there are folks here that think I’m nuts but I think there is great potential tommorow at the March on the Pentagon/Gathering of Eagles for idiots like the Pink Dope to start some shit. The message boards on the Rolling Thunder and GE sites have these people foaming at the mouth about “protecting the Wall”. I hope folks will be cool down there Saturday
Bluetoe says @ 33
“Henry Waxman did seem to question Toensing’s veracity. They gave her the rope and she put her head in the noose.”
Seemed to?? He asked her the source of the information on which she based those assertions. Did you talk to the CIA? Did you talk to the WH? How do you know? She had no answer. He then said the commite would fact check it and leave the record open.
He didn’t just “seem to”, he in fact questioned the authority of her claims and their accuracy.
Friday afternoon to do:
1. Call/email panel members in support;
2. prepare cocktails;
3. wait for Olbermann
AZ Matt, I’m just now learning how to read, sorry, for toesuck, I’d cast Doris Roberts. But that’s an insult to Doris Roberts, sorry Doris, I love you!!!
Googling I found that Toensing’s birth year is listed as 1941. This would make sense since her wiki says she graduated IU in 1962. This would make her 65 to 66 years old. I thought she said she was only 25 and had worked on Intelligence Identities Protection Act 30 years ago, suggesting that she is 55 years old. BTW the act was passed in 1982 or about 25 years ago. Toensing seems to have problems not only with the truth but with basic math.
Yeah, gotta keep that free speech contained in the proper zones, outside, in the weather, off in the distance. Because we don’t want the People to think that they have some role in these Congressional hearings…
Populism is messy: neat and tidy is how the Fascists operate.
For Jane,
Lance Mackey, the winner of this year’s Iditarod and Yukon Quest sled dog races, is a cancer victor.
I think poor Vicky needs a reality check; she mistook committee hearings for Fox & Friends.
What I want to know is why none of our team asked some very simple questions of that useless sack of sh*t Toensing:
– Was Toensing CIA at the time of Plame’s outing?
– Was she CIA at any time during this administration?
– If she wasn’t, she couldn’t be in a supervisory capacity over Plame, yes?
– If she wasn’t CIA and not Plame[s supervisor, she would have no direct knowledge of Plame’s status while Plame was with CIA, would she? Unless of course somebody leaked to Toensing?
– As an author of the IIPA, if a covert agent whose status has been confirmed by both CIA at large and DCI is not covered under IIPA as Toensing claims, who the hell did Toensing write the IIPA to cover? Nobody?
– If it didn’t cover or protect Plame from people who spent hours and days and weeks actively researching Plame and her spouse, actively disseminating information that they should have known by virtue of their roles to be classified, of what use was the IIPA? Resume padding?
– Toensing was a Bush Cheney transition team special advisor, theoretically having a management-like capacity in preparing strategy for the Bush Cheney administration. Is the outing of covert agents something the transition team planned, yes or no? Is the lack of investigation into destruction of intelligence assets something that was planned at inception of this administration, yes or no? If not, how can Toensing explain why Bush Cheney administration failed to adhere to either regulations or codes of conduct in this respect, let alone the advice of the so-called transition team?
Good God but that witch with the horrific abuse of hair color was sucking waste of oxygen.
raven @ 11 -
Ms. Redshift is sure the person was at the Code Pink meeting last night. She (as Ms. Redshift put it, he/she is “between genders”, so I’m being polite) is from out of town, and perhaps didn’t get that camera-hogging isn’t appropriate at a hearing as it is at a protest. In any case, I find the arguments of him/her being a Republican plant doubtful; there were several other Code Pink people at the hearing (including at least one other who wasn’t in pink), so if the person had been an actual crasher, they would have done something. Misguided, but not deliberately harmful.
2 Beers- I’ll be passed out by then, shit, oh well!!!
Victoria, who started off so confidently, looked like a puddle by the end. Loved it.
Casting Toensing?
How about Veronica Cartwright?
It sort of comes down to superficials, visuals and tones of voice; stuff like that. We get Valerie Wilson, they get Victoria Toensing. I can live with that.
Now we’ve gotta cast Westmoreland too. Who’s the guy who played Ernest? Oh, yeah – Jim Varney…
Great they didn’t just let Vicious Toestink ramble on and on, though she sure tried, and succeeded a bit. But she got smacked down a couple times. I sincerely hope they do the same to Condi the next time she sits before a committee.
Redshift, I also found he/she more than a little distracting, HOWEVER, don’t impugne the messenger for the message
Jane, you kick ass in every way.
If I were a casting director I would cast Roger Ailes in the role of Victoria Toensing.
That’s just me though.
-GSD
On chronicling and thereby exposing the corruption and decadence of the ruling elites of Rome, Roman Emperor Claudius at the end of his rule said, in the fictional biography by Sir Robert Graves, “let all the poisons come out”. The poison is coming out in the new Rome. Let the people know what the Republican Party has done to the nation, it’s citizens and the world.
zhiv @ 71
Yep, when he was in charge, he thought the really important subject for government oversight was steroids in baseball. Really.
Hugh- She lied- under oath!!
Jane, how are you feeling?
Thanks for all your effort, I just sent in some Dinero (but you can’t have my Camaro) ;-)
dmg @40
Toensing changed her words a bit on the she was not covert…to she was not covert under the definitioin of the IIPA which she helped to write when she was 25 years old for Goldwater 30 years ago. And how does she make the assertion that Plame was not covert based on that legislation, well because under oath she said she can make that decision based on information from testimony that occurred at the Libby perjury and obstruction of justice trial..(a trial that Judge Walton strictly limited testimony about the testimony and questioning of her covert status). Toensing also under oath stated she made that non covert status based on the IIPA legislation claim even though she admitted the had never discussed with the CIA head or Mrs. Plame the facts of her covert status and for which both have stated under oath and for the record she was a classifed covert cia operative working at the cpd. In my opinion…Toensing is guilty of negligence as a lawyer …kind of like when Bill Frist diagnosed Terri Schiavo as being responsive based on video tape he watched from the Senate floor.
When any individual is dressed obviously as a woman, the proper pronoun is she.
If a “she” dresses like a man, she is still a she, unless she has a goatee. Then you use “he”.
FWIW :)
poor Jane. I hope Toensing’s testimony didn’t make the chemo worse.
The good thing is that Waxman beheaded her. She’s harmless now.
fashionpolice
says who?
I love Marcy. I can’t wait for her post!
Tom Davis on the other hand was a disgrace. His opening statement was an unfair and misleading assessment of the validity of the inquiry. He took every chance to undermine it, cast doubt, diminish the significance of important revelations, and characterize it as much ado about nothing. He served his party today: He certainly did not serve his country.
Anybody else tired of the obfuscation of Bush apologists and enablers?
Tom Davis can spend his first 1000 years of death in pergatory for what he did today, that is if you believe in port-mortem atonement. In the short term, I hope the people he represents in Virginia take notice.
Seems like Congressman Waxman’s office is fielding some calls. First I got a busy signal, then I got through and was hold for a short period.
Here’s his numbers in case you have a few minutes to thank him.
(202) 225-3976 (phone)
(202) 225-4099 (fax)
I’ve never read that Riehl guy before but I think he has the hots for Amb Wilson.
Aren’t credibility and integrity necessary qualities for a lawyer? Victoria Toensing must be convinced that Fox News and the Republican Party will always be willing to hire her as a commentator. Since she has willingly abandoned those qualities, how can she ever be a lawyer again?
the ‘missing blonde white woman’ meme just nicely reversed itself….
how do those ‘psychological blurs’ in the ‘whittled down white house’ deal with this?
Is the libby verdict was Fitzmas, is today proceeding Epiphany?
Casting Westmoreland? How about the guy that played Mr. Hainey on “Green Acres”?
Aren’t credibility and integrity necessary qualities for a lawyer?
You’re killin me over here!
Hugh @ 88: At least one other person thought that she was saying that she helped draft the IIPA law 25 years ago, correcting Waxman’s 30, rather than claiming to be 25 years old at the time. This is consistent with the fact that the IIPA is dated 1982: see Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982 (50 U.S.C. 421 et seq.)
This is probably the one factual detail that Waxman got wrong and VT got right. However, Waxman’s response, “we’ll check out that fact also”, was brilliant and hit exactly the right note.
Jane, from the sub-cockle area of my familys’ heart, Godspeed. You are truly a light in the tunnel.
If
Case in point, Anne Coulter.
What role do prominent Adam’s Apples play?
HI pups -
The “Pink People” are Code Pink.
Code Pink is a legit group (whatever one may say about their members’ level of tactical/ situational/ media awareness).
I wouldn’t have signed up with a Code Pink affiniity group for Seattle (IIRC they didn’t exist then, anyway) ’cause I prefer a higher level of tactical/media awareness: some Code Pink actions seem to be more about personal expression than about targeted advocacy.
Having said that, I’d feel quite safe strolling through a big “traditional” demo like Saturday’s with the Code Pink contingent.
Code Pink are definitely not purposeful disruptors or agitators.
They’re OK.
PS: If Code Piink is the most dissonant element Saturday, count your blessings – that can only mean ANSWER got lost and couldn’t hog the podium (or podiaa?)
I think the Pink Guy was a republican plant to make people who want Bush impeach look ridiculous.
I also seem to recall that Toensing referred to all the agents she had talked with. Is my memory correct? If so, did she have a security clearance at the time? Did they inappropriately and illegally disclose their covert status to her (compare to Valerie Plame who clearly went to great lengths to protect hers)?
I thought the pink man?lady wearing the impeach bush now was cute. Her presence was a distraction. I thought Waxmen handled it well.
Thank you Jane and all.
What a day!! If you dare RawStory has a link to the Freepers take on this.I read a bit and as expected they say Val lied. LOL
Raven (#118):
Only for some lawyers …….
On Yahoo – The White House on Friday backed off its earlier contention that then-White House Counsel Harriet Miers first raised the idea of firing U.S. attorneys…
oooops
Tap Duncan @ 99
Oh, absolutely. The message is worthwhile, and Code Pink are generally good people, it just wasn’t necessarily the right style for this venue. (My tone may not have come through; I wasn’t trying to impugn anything, I thought I was being gentle.)
Watertiger @91: “…she mistook committee hearings for Fox & Friends.”
My thoughts exactly. She behaved as if she was a paid pundit on a cable gab-fest, not testifying under oath to a congressional committee.
News from Josh Marshall
“We hear there’s another big document dump coming late this afternoon.
We’re also hearing the press briefing today was a doozy.”
Raven,
I agree with you that people must keep their heads right now. But anger in this country is deep and angry people do dumb things sometimes. I love aburdist theater, so I enjoyed Pink GUY as part of the show. Same with the guy with the sign and the shout out. The pink guy’s stunt was stupid but not truly harmful and I can’t wait to see what what the Daily Show and Colbert does with it all.
Why wasn’t Toensing asked if Plame wasn’t covert then why did she leave her job at the CIA? If no harm was done then why did she end her career? Toensing is one arrogant bitch and she spun every question to her narrow focus of the law she helped write. It was so refreshing to see her cut off and asked to just answer the question including just a yes or no.
Redshift, You were fine, right on. I agree, right place at the right time, this was not the time.
PS: If Code Piink is the most dissonant element Saturday, count your blessings – that can only mean ANSWER got lost and couldn’t hog the podium (or podiaa?)
I was really using today’s action of an example of “misguided”. I agree that the dudes in masks and hoods are the ones that present a problem. Mix them with some of the morons in Rolling Thunder and you have quite a cocktail. I have a Nam vet buddy who stands with CP at Walter Reed and he confirms your point about them.
Toensing COULD NOT have been one of the drafters of IIPA. It was introduced to congress early in 1981 (Jan & Feb). She didn’t move to DC and go to work for Goldwater until 1981. That bill had to have been written in 1980. She didn’t live in DC or work for congress in 1980. She is just full of crap.
She is a liar.
The White House didn’t investigate who leaked Plame’s name to the press. That’s a shocker, eh?
Probably because they already had Rove’s name?
Jane,
I would like to second Biodun’s and LHP’s comments on your founding this site. #24
There are so many smart,witty,compassionate, (in the real sense)people here that it made the dark days of ‘05,’06, bearable. Personally, I cannot thank you and all the able writers and commenters enough for what you have done, and are doing every single day.
the fact that Toensing is STILL spouting the old bullshit about Valerie Plame donating to Gore’s campaign and using Brewer Jennings as her company’s name…as if covert operatives are supposed to point out that they’re actually with the CIA every time they participate in some sort of social activity.
my too sense @ 107
thanks so much for taking the time to spell that out.
appalling, really, that she wasn’t escorted out of the hearing in cuffs and legchains.
Raven — there will be a line of police between them, so fortunately I don’t think there’s much chance of the two groups getting mixed.
If this was 40 years ago Jerry Rubin would have dressed up like a revolutionary war soldier and attended the hearings.
As it is I’d rather have a Code Pink ‘character’ than the ‘John 3:16′ sporting events guy show up…
Well, maybe he was up to no good and will somehow queer the whole deal (so to speak), but while I was watching, I found the pink guy cheery.
Jane, FDL has been instrumental in getting to the bottom of the treasonous actions of this Administrations. You and all your cohorts @ FDL are 21st Century patriots. If only those in the MSM had 1/4 of the integrity of FDL.
re the pink person being distracting – I did note that person was there, but I could not tear my attention away from Valerie Plame. She was riveting, and after all this time, Wild Horses couldn’t have kept me from hearing what she had to say.
um, it would be nice if i finished a sentence.
The fact that she and Novak are still trying to abuse the old fictions and nonfacts means that they got nuthin and they know it.
Pink Person is allegedly Midge Potts
http://myspace-444.vo.llnwd.ne…..2444_l.jpg
Don’t know if she is Code Pink or not
All the cable channels I looked at after the hearings neglected to cover the bomb = no W/H investigation into leakers…they did notice however that Valerie Wilson posed for Vanity Fair.
Wow! Mark Zaid is also a dealer in ‘investment-grade comics’.
Vicky T., Ann C., Michelle M., Mary M.,
Does the Republican Nazi Party cause women to become like this or are they just born that way ?
Neil at 12:19 pm
Thank you. That was the best synopsis I have read.
I know there must be something wrong with me but I did feel sorry for Knodell. It was as if he had a revelation during the hearing that his job title meant that he was actually expected to be doing something.
watertiger — yeah, it’s like the BS line that because people knew that Joe had a wife, that somehow meant she wasn’t covert. The way to maintain a cover company is to behave like it’s a normal company (such as stating that it’s your employer), not by trying to hide its existence.
re the pink person,
It was less distracting if you were listening to the hearings online like I was.
Waxman did everything but stuff her mouth with garlic.
No wonder Rove didn’t want the Democrats with oversight.
-GSD
Victoria Toensing testified at Henry Waxman’s committee today. She appeared wearing two watches, which reminded me of the observation that a person with one watch knows what time it is, but a person with two watches is never quite sure. Still, it did kind of make her look like a spy.
She testified that Mrs. Wilson was not a covert officer. This must come as a surprise to Mrs. Wilson, and to General Hayden, who approved language used by Congressman Waxman, viz., “Valerie Plame was a covert officer.”
Ms. Toensing comes to her surprising conclusion by redefining “covert officer.” Reminds me of a famous riddle that President Lincoln posed:
If you call a dog’s tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have?
Four. Calling a tail a leg won’t make it so.
To bolster her case, Toensing asked a series of rhetorical questions, e.g., “Why didn’t the head of the CIA go to Novak, when he knew the article was forthcoming, and ask him not to publish it?”
Whenever I hear someone use the rhetorical device of asking questions containing untested assumptions in rapid fire, I’m reminded of the old saying: “A fool can ask more questions than a wise man can answer.”
Don’t forget that each one of Ms. Toensing’s rhetorical questions may have a logical answer. Why didn’t the Director of Central Intelligence call Novak to put the kibosh on the outing of Plame? Answer: Novak had already been told by the CIA not to publish the article.
In this case, Ms. Toensing’s questions threw enough baffle-dust into the air that you might come away with the conclusion that one can be a covert agent without being a “covert agent under the statute” covering unauthorized disclosure of a covert agent’s identity. But that doesn’t mean that Cheney, Libby, and Rove didn’t violate the relevant Executive Order relating to classified information. It’s clear that they did.
Visit the Schapira blog, “What we know so far …” at http://schapira.blogspot.com
“… and tell ’em Big Mitch sent ya!”
casting Toensing? Drag Carrie Fischer behind a truck for a few miles, face down, she might look like Toensing…
Watertiger: I seem to be keying off your comments this afternoon.
Yeah, that whole nonsense about VPW having the stupidity to donate under the Brewster Jennings affiliation made me sit up and screech. It was her COVER for crying out loud. This is the smartest shill they could find?
Lynn Westmoreland aka Mr. Hainey from “Green Acres”.
Curious – If Waxman’s committee uncovers new information that indicates criminal activity, either in the original leak or additional perjory,could Fitz come back into the picture?
Valerie Plame Wilson’s testimony was riveting.
Absolutely spy-thriller material.
The Republicans they showed reacting to her statements were like…’oh shit, how do I minimize this?’
And how can they?
Should not these hearings provide the legal basis for charges of treason?
OK, I’m done with worrying about Saturday.
wouldnt it have been something to see if Henry had put Valerie and Vicky on the SAME panel? I would have paid a month’s salary to see that.
Fitz isn’t the only potential prosecutor, but he’s certainly our favorite.
only if one of Valerie’s concealed darts and gone off
for those who are interested, here’s the linky for code pink
and raven – no worries! I hope my “ANSWER” PS didn’t seem like a slam on you (or your comment) – I just couldn’t pass up the opportunity to bang on the neo-Stalinists at ANSWER.
Conversely, I hope my observations on Code Pink don’t seem to slam their members as a group – I could point to individual Earth First’ers with no tactical/media awareness, as well.
I do respect Code Pink and their effective advocacy.
(guess I’m just picky about who I do direct action with….
but then I’m fond of being effective while avoiding unplanned jail stays)
I see a lot of talk about Toensing, legit and justified… but what about what happened with Knodell?
I almost lost it watching him squirm in front of the commitee! Will there be any investigation as to why there was no investigation by Knodell and his dept?
Thank god for a snowy day in CT… I got to watch most of the hearings at work. But I only caught the last half of Toensing when I got home.
Bluetoe,
That is patently unfair to Mr Haney
also, I think Davis needs the “macaca” treatment, he’s gotta go!
If the blogs can take out The Hammer and Mr. Macaca, we can surely take out this traitor.
“I did not recommend him. I did not suggest him. There was no nepotism involved. I did not have the authority,” she said.
That conflicts with senior officials at the CIA and State Department, who testified during Libby’s trial that Plame recommended Wilson for the trip.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..k_congress
It’s been great to follow FDL’s doings from our South American vaca. Even got a chance to join the FDL Gabbly on Libby Verdict Day (we were in Santiago Chile then).
Has FDL gotten its Pulitzer Prize yet??
Yay on the entire FDL Crew!!
(((JANE)))
Will there be any investigation as to why there was no investigation by Knodell and his dept?
Supposedly they didn’t do an investigation because of the special prosecutor investigation. Even though that tooks months to begin.
The fellow Knodel replaced, Thompson, is the one who should be up there squirming.
and raven – no worries! I hope my “ANSWER” PS didn’t seem like a slam on you (or your comment) – I just couldn’t pass up the opportunity to bang on the neo-Stalinists at ANSWER.
Not at all, I think you are right on. I watched that ilk co-opt the anti-war movement “40″ years ago and get a lot of good, well meaning people’s heads bashed in.
I’d like to see the woman who played the gym teacher in ‘Donnie Darko’ as Toensing.
Although she’s a dead ringer for Rep. Schmidt.
A well trained dog could play Westmoreland.
I am reminded of a line from LOnesome Dove spoken by Bobby D- when they hung Jake Spoon-
“When you ride with an outlaw, you die like an outlaw, I’m sorry Jake crossed the line”
A well trained dog could play Westmoreland.
A well trained dog would turn the part down!
Isn’t Yahoo staffed by former Fox newscasters?
Executive order 12958 sets sanctions for disclosing classified information or other breaches of the EO. To wit:
People, instead of torches and pitchforks, we will come for them with google and paper ballots. These are out tools, we must protect them while we still can.
OT.
Moqtada Al Sadr calls for resistance against the US.
-GSD
More on the Sunshine week theme: Leahy will be on Stephanopoulis on Sunday to discuss the firings of the US Attorneys.
My only wish about the pink person was that I would have preferred to see him or her during Toensing’s testimony as opposed to Valerie’s.
Valerie Plame is soo gorgeous, I’m jealous of her ; she’s sweet and just a nice American patriot.
yeah, VT, just said stuff like well according to statute, she’s not covert. Well, according to the CIA someone didn’t follow the rules in her classification. But didn’t the WH move to DE-CLAssify her status 10 days later?
James Knoll came out like the beaurocrat I detest of guvment employees. He couldn’t be bothered to investigate what if anything could be done after the outing of Plame(citing competing investigations of course). Worse, he didn’t seem to care. One of those gov.lifers I can’t stand.
SOS IN MASS- Great to see you back here, check out Bahia, good times!
This whole stance of trying to blame the CIA for not qualifying Ms Wilson’s status as covert and then not doing enough to prevent the actual publication defies belief. These are supposed to be the “adults” running this government. First, I would assume that just about all the information provided to senior officials during their regular briefings by the CIA to be classified. Before releasing anything I learned in a briefing, I would check first whether it’s classified. I mean these folks had been at their jobs for a couple of years and should have gotten the hang of it. Second, I learned long ago, I think I was 5 years old, that claiming a toy was now mine because my brother hadn’t used it in a while just didn’t work. I mean that’s really what they’re saying. Because the CIA didn’t do handsprings with Novak to prevent him from publishing, they couldn’t have meant it.
Another thing, Toensing claimed that they wanted to be sure the IIPA protected whistle-blowers. I would think that when someone is trying to reveal problems in an agency, that is when the agency would be most active in trying to prevent the publication. Her logic doesn’t make sense to me.
Also, as I think another commenter mentioned, is there anything online about the original legislation either documents or recollections from other staffers and legislators?
It felt good to see Valerie up there refuting all of the bullshit that the wingers have been spreading.
And Bushco took a solid right to the jaw today.
No investigation into Rove is politically like pouring gas on a bonfire.
The sh*t is going to hit the rotating blades at high velocity over that one.
My only wish about the pink person was that I would have preferred to see him or her during Toensing’s testimony as opposed to Valerie’s.
Yea, but then you wouldn’t have known which was which. . .witch!
Toensing provided the fireworks with her partisan gunslinging but the real substantial moments came from Plame’s solid testimony regarding her status and her not sending her husband to Niger and Knodell’s confession that the Office of Security has done nothing on over the course of the last 3 years.
if our main posters ever run short of topics, a Saturday or Sunday “How I stopped listening to ANSWER” post might bring out a lot of stories.
I’ve sure got mine, but I already know them. I’d love to read everyone else’s.
Hey Raven, maybe we could the lady in pink to play LYNN westmoreland, just a thought!
RAndi Rhodes is skewering Westmoreland’s are you a Demo or Rep question.
Like I said, the dog would turn it down!
The RNC’s ten worst lies about Joe Wilson.
OK, let me link together some roads that have yet to be linked;
every single step this administration has taken in Iraq was in direct defiance from their advisers
the head of their anti terror league told them attacking Iraq would exacerbate the fight against terrorism
the heads of the military said attacking Iraq would weaken our armed forces and would divert the necessary resources from the fight against terrorism
the CIA told them Iraq was no threat and not only had nothing to do with terrorism, but it would radicalize Iraqi’s into insurgents and terrorists
we were told we needed to go with no fewer then 400, 000 troops, well equipped
we were told we would need to prepare for an insurgency
we were told we would need to safeguard the Iraqi infrastructure
we were told we would need to rebuild their society in order to win their hearts
we were told not to disperse their army with their weapons
we were told to safeguard all Iraqi weapons stocks against stealing
all of the advice given concerning Iraq was defied, AS IF THEY WANTED TO FAIL
some of our covert operations intended to track and Identify actual threats against this country has been laid is laid to waste in the case we are discussing today
it SURELY looks like these defiant decisions against advise were deliberately intended to weaken our country
treason?
it surely seems even worse then treason
There’s a post up here asking one of us lawyers to comment on prosecuting Vicki for lying under oath based on her statements. I’ll respond;
Any person giving testimony before any government body can be tried for perjury, if commtted, and can be held in contempt for deliberate misrepresentations. In order to satisfy the burden of proving knowledge in the case of contempt, one can make the case she knew or SHOULD HAVE KNOWN, what she was saying was false. For perjury, you have to prove a knowing lie.
By holding herself out as an expert and being a lawyer, she is under greater scrutiny than most witnesses, as she has duties to the tribunal and to the State Bar independent of the tribunal itself. A lawyer can argue in good faith to change the law, a lawyer can argue in good faith that the law does not apply to their client or that it doesn’t cover the alleged actions. A lawyer cannot give an opinion he/she knows or should know to be a false interpretation of the law. Not to a client and especially not to a tribunal of any form. For example a lawyer cannot say the sun is black if the law says the sun is yellow.
What I believe Wax has done, in a subtle manner, by leaving the record open is he can submit items showing the lack of merit in the minority party requested expert witness’ testimony and leave it at that. Or he can call her back in and ask her questions to make her testimony conform with the law as written or explain how it is that she came to her conclusions absent any of the evidence she calimed to know at the beginning of her testimony. He backed her down on what she knew because versus what she thinks because her representations would make her a fact witness rather than an expert. But, without that personal knowledge and with the facts as known, she would be hard pressed to defend her opinion that Plame is not covered by the statute. She can be held in contempt of Congress if she is found to have used her status as an expert to deliberately mislead the panel. Basically, it comes down to exposing Ms. Toensing for lack of a good faith reason for her opinion. I think Wax will keep his eye on the ball and just whack her good in the record as a completely discredited witness rather than play whack a mole with her. Should the State Bar investigate her actions in writing an article calling for the prosecution of Fitz DURING the trial and a day before deliberations as well as writing a brief for the defense she did not disclose in her article or to the panel today? Yup. Should she get more than a slap on the wrist from the Bar? Yup. Will she? Nope.
The fellow Knodel replaced, Thompson, is the one who should be up there squirming.
True, but Knodell should’ve been briefed or something when he took over the job. Outing a CIA agent is a big deal, the prez said he’d investigate it, and nothing from the “Director of the Office of Security” past or present? Knodell seemed pretty clueless considering the high profile of the leak. To me, it’s just one more example of ineptness or incompetence or cronyism.
BTW, (and someone correct me if I’m wrong) Toensing was only there as a favor to the Republicans on the commitee. As far as I can tell, she had no real business being there.
“it surely seems even worse then treason.”
Treason once meant betraying “Kng and Country”, but when the usurper king and his crew are the ones committing treason, it can only be against the Constitution, our real King.
Dang it, I missed Sharkbabe on the last thread.
HIYA Sharky!
“True, but Knodell should’ve been briefed or something when he took over the job.”
Think about that for just a moment, wouldn’t it behoove the Bushes to replace Thompson with someone who was intentionally KEPT IN THE DARK, just so they would have very little to say at this point in history?
Pelosi promises vote on Iran war measure
“Curiosly, the juror who was dismissed from the Libby trial — a woman in a short blond bob — was at the hearings, and spent most of Toensing’s testimony glaring at the back of her head.”
Just a wild guess.
But I wonder if the juror was dismissed from the jury as a result of exposure to the Toensing (jury tampering) op-ed.
That might explain the juror’s interest in Toensing’s testimony.
Just for grins, I went to Freeperland and got some quotes from their live blogging of icky vicky’s testimony.
COMPARE AND CONTRAST:
RESOLVED: there is proof of the existence of a parallel universe!
OT-I got deleted yesterday for saying something I should have kept to myself and I realize statements like I made are damaging to this site which works so hard to do the right thing
I sincerely apologize.
I think we can all agree that Valerie is a very attractive woman. I think we’ve come to believe that all the beautiful women are in Hollywood, I’m just glad that we have others in DC doing a hell of a lot more important things. I’ll bet my left nut that there are actresses dying to portray her. Think “Band of Brothers”
Maddy- apology accepted, behave yourself!
To play Vicki Toensing -> Roseanne Barr
“BTW, (and someone correct me if I’m wrong) Toensing was only there as a favor to the Republicans on the commitee. As far as I can tell, she had no real business being there.”
Boy, that one backfired on them.
“there is proof of the existence of a parallel universe!”
No it is just proof that some brainwashing can’t be overcome with reason and logic.
JAYT- too over the top, IMHO, LOLOLOLOLOLOL
casting for tonguestink- emperor palpatine. both have the same lapels under their eyes.
van allen (sp.?) did a great job asking whether the admin officials bear any responsibility for due diligence to verify status when dealing with a CIA employee, and that threw tonguestinks assertion of CIA responsibility out the window. In the republican wishful worldview of a 1984 police state where the thought police knows everything going on, then the CIA would have had the responsiblity to confirm to every single person who could possibly have leaked or been leaked to, the status of Plame and forewarn them that they should not leak… In any other rational universe, it’s the duty of the government official who thinks of leaking…
tonguestink kept going on about how she drafted the law (there has been a consistent right wing tendency to embellish resumes, no?) and how plame did not qualify as covert under that criminal statute. she says that it would be almost impossible to prosecute a journalist or employee based on the wording of the statute.
well then what’s the fucking point of the criminal statute? if the definition has been so tightly woven so that no one can get prosecuted, then the definition is meaningless.
waxman waxed tonguestink when he distinguished the criminal statute and the executive order.
waxman aint no wolf blitzer. he sees through her bullshit.
How about Jack Black to play Toensing, as he probably can’t play Wilson?
ummm. . . didn’t Fitz say Plame was covert in his post verdict newsconference?
Or how about just leaving Toensing out of the movie? That would get her (pet) goat.
“Jack Black to play Toensing?”
You’d have to drag Jack behind a truck for a mile or two, while I imagine he’s pretty ugly as a woman, he’s not that ugly.
What are you talking about? I love Roseanne Barr!
I guess Fitz just doesn’t know the law. Yeah, that’s it.
JayT — Roseanne wiped the floor with a couple of RWers last week on Maher’s show.
She’s one of us.
-S
fitz said it and the judge confirmed her covert status BEFORE the trial, I am amazed they want to hang on to the “she wasn’t covert” crap, but they will hang on to anything, they will lie to your face in defense of their puppeteers, they are marionettes
Gary Oldman could do a bang-up characterization of Tonguestink…smarmy and lying and narcissistic and all. And he’d get the grating voice and facial expressions perfect, of course.
Shout out to Victoria:
AND
Why did you go out of your way to make sure to repeat ad nauseum that Novakula did absolutely nothing wrong? WE DON’T BUY IT.
this entire affair is like one of those historical dramas that take place in palace hallways and shadowy cathedrals.
very powerful people behind the scenes trying to destroy each other.
what we are seeing may or may not indicate what is actually going on.
I certainly know whose political/criminal/torturing/warmongering/pedophiliac career I”d like to see destroyed.
Sharon Stone as Toensing.
Mable, is that all one person? That would be one very busy person.
*xyz makes a very insightful speculation at #201.
Remember how Libby replied that if the VP thought something was important then it was important to him. The President stated that finding the leaker was important. What’s clear now from today’s hearing was that was for the press only. The President early already knew or didn’t care. No one inside the WH thought it was important to really do anything. I’ve worked in various levels of local government for over 30 years and believe me they had time to do a preliminary investigation if nothing else then to find out what their exposure was. This wasn’t a DOJ case until referral from the CIA which, if I remember correctly, was being criticized at the time for not moving quickly on the referral.
casting VT: cruella deville
like jacqrat, i HAD to visit freeperland’s 1000 comment threads….amazing. “VT for prez”, “why prosecute this and not sandy berger?”, confident assertions that everyone who said plame was covert was lying and should be thrown in the slammer, outrage at the ending when waxman basically put VT in her place by leaving the record open to factcheck her…astounding conclusions from the delusional right.
thanks for the blogging and live links FDL; i got to watch on a RealPlayer feed.
Somebody, Jane? March? said that Pach had interviewed the dismissed juror today. Looking forward to that!
If Waxman wants to appoint a Special Counsel, I hear there are plenty of good former US Attorneys looking for work. Carol Lam sure seemed to be doing a good job.
yellowsnapdragon:
Fizgerald said “her cover was definitely blown” in his post-indictment conference. After the conviction he said he was “100% certain she was a covert agent.”
With Hayden’s testimony that’s moot, huh?
Hotflash, you’re right!
Maybe it’s a ten-headed monster spawning in vile pits while trying to escape….
JEP, you’re not wrong. Toensing was there on the request of the Republican minority. They needed someone there to carry water for the Party. Boy it feels good to say “the Republican minority”.
ooooh-the idea of putting Carol Lam up against this cabal….what a karmic, delightful thought!
I hope Waxman gets the CIA memo soon about the officer who said his words were twisted by the Repub Senators. Anyone know who those 3 were?
Plame is being re-run on cspan, right now
According to Medea Benjamin, co-founder of Code Pink, the pink person in court was indeed codepinker Midge.
Great coverage today, FDL heroes!
I worked today and missed all of the testimony, so it was great to come here & get a good roundup of what happened.
I’m watching “Tucker” right now, and he’s actually pretty belligerent about how Armitage is the one (he) believes leaked Plame’s identity, and he wants to know why Armitage hasn’t been called to testify or has been charged with any crime. Curious what you think of it.
Oh, and Hugh Hewitt blowhard is just a hoot – saying defiantly that “nobody is interested in this story whatsoever. It’s going through one news cycle, and that will be it.” Even Tucker laughed and said, “well, she did get over a million dollars to write a book, so I think people are paying attention to it”. Heh!
Perhaps someone could get Toensing and Hewitt to do their own altered reality TV show. Those two would probably work very well together, saying things that are so obviously false while people laugh in their faces.
Jane – here’s hoping you’re feeling as well as can be expected right now. I’m amazed & inspired by your endless strength & courage.
thanks Kewalo
EPU’s from the last thread…
“Would it have been a defense under the Act to try to show the defendant did not know Plame was covert?”
That’s the gist of this entire cover-up at this point, and Davis was setting it up all the while, with Toensing as a co-conspirator.
Doubtless they discussed her testimony before the hearing, she may have even provided Davis with the “proper” questions and tack.
See, the problem is, since the Libby trial, they can’t deny the actual outing, it is on public records they can’t classify as “top secret.”
So they have to claim ignorance of her covert status. Right now, that is their only out, but in many ways, it suggest strongly that there is still a very active, an ongoing cover-up that is getting deeper every day.
For everyone who thinks the Dems aren’t doing enough, ponder what the world would look like to us today if the R’s still held all the gavels.
Was I dearming or did anyone else notice this too?
When GOP mouthpiece rep Davis asked the man from Archives who has the power to declassify stuff he allowed the guy to say that the president has the power and then cut him off when he tried to mention the VP.
Donita thread upstairs for the party minded.
My guess is that Rush Limpballs takes a lot of time to say bad things regarding Code Pink: once when my sister was wailing on me about how stupid I am to be a liberal, she started foaming at the mouth when she spat out…” .that… that… medea benjamin!!!!”
flashback, wallstreet journal, 2005
puke alert
a women shameless wouldn’t you say?
I think I’d like to see the toothless guy on Deliverance play Westmoreland but I think he’d need to pack on a few pounds (and teefs).
Raw Story linked me to Free Republic’s live blogging of Waxman’s hearing. I’m at #231 of more than a thousand comments. Best so far:
There is a huge difference in the Dems treatment of Valerie Plame and of Terri Schiavo — both from Huntingdon Valley, PA, both born 1963, both married to liars who gave false testimony.
I haven’t gotten to their take on Westmoreland yet. I think I’m going to pour a beer first…
Tap Duncan says:
March 16th, 2007 at 1:07 pm
Maddy- apology accepted, behave yourself!
Thanks Tap
“Yet it was the CIA’s bizarre conduct that led inexorably to Ms. Plame’s unveiling.”
Bizarre? Ironic, that comes from one of the most bizarre characters we’ve seen since Watergate.
If Toensing has conspired to aid the cover-up of this outing, can’t she be charged for it.
All they have to prove is that more than one person made up these plans to deceive Congress. Who’s Toensing’s co-conspirators?
Wonder if she’s talked to Rove lately?
Toensing is full of it. The IIPA description of an agent simply states that they have to work for the CIA, and be in a classified position that the CIA goes to some lengths to keep secret. If you come across information during the course of your government service that identifies such an agent, and you give that information to someone who is not authorized to receive classisfied information (i.e. BOB FREAKING NOVACK) you have committed a criminal offense and are subject to $50,000 fine and/or 10 years in jail. This is why Valerie went on at some length about how the CIA “at taxpayer expense” maintains her covert identity, and how she DID IN FACT WORK OUT OF THE COUNTRY IN THE PAST 5 YEARS!! Ergo, she meet criteria for the IIPA. She IS a covered agent. Toensing is typical of republican ditto heads who, when faced with information that conflicts with what they want to be true, simply keep reiterating the lie, hoping to convince the dittoheads that they are right. Waxman should have her arrested for lying.
ET at 242
Thank you for your service to your country, I couldn’t, could.not stand to read that. Are we that slanted? I should look at it just to see. But not right now.
Freeps are beside themselves. Eat it, little sticky keyboarders.
Interesting. Free Republic had Midge Potts identified with a big set of photos from code pink events by 8:01 a.m. PDT. Comment #286. Has anybody here suggested that Potts has been planted in code pink?
Here’s a question I don’t see asked much: How did Novak get the name “Brewster Jennings”… the cover agency she was “working” for? I think Congressman Waxman should look into that a little more.
Poor Terry Schaivo.
In death, as in life, the wingnuts won’t let her have any peace.
I’ve always felt that modern medicine, not God, kept her alive artificially, denying her the comfort of death.
Now they use the poor woman’s name to vilify another innocent victim.
Mandrake! (waving) How are you? It’s snowing here (Toronto), they say 2cm before it stops. I may make myself a hot chocolate to watch it by, shall I make one for you? And I may put a splash of rye (Canadian whiskey to you Yanks) if liked.
Anyone else?
“Potts has been planted in code pink?”
or she is sincere, but just not very wise in the ways of media-driven politics.
But there aren’t many other options.
I haven’t posted in a while. We moved from Connecticut to Savannah (where it’s pleasant, sunny and crowded with St. Patrick’s Day tourists). Sorry for your crummy weather. But don’t fear FEMA is on the alert.
I did watch the hearings (although missed Plame). I kind of felt sorry for Knodel. He just left me there wondering:
“What the f*** exactly is it that you do all day Mr. Knodel? And when do you do it?
I’m sure he’ll be transferred over to FEMA
C’mon guys let’s not be trashing that old “Libertine” Barry Goldwater. In his old age Barry came around to some very liberal views. And he had something going for him that these neocon clowns don’t have.
He was an honest guy. Goldwater would have fired every one of these jerks and taken any heat personally.
Free Republic finally gets to Westy:
I love this Congressman from Georgia, Lynn Westmoreland
He is giving the good ol’ boy easy drawl impression while asking really sharp questions!!
Hey, Hot Flash, thanks for the salute, but where I live, FreeRepublicspeak is a common dialect.
Bozo at 249, we know “shiny object-ions” when we read them…
What does that have to do with anything?
Well HotFlash wew/ve quite a bit more than that in the Globally-warmed south. we were about to break the record for the least snow, but tant pis(te).
Hey Hotflash! *waves*
Definitely spike that hot chocolate and watch that lovely snow come down. After today’s hearing, I say, start St. Patty’s early!
OOps, sorry, I misread, my apologies to Bobonze, that really is a good wquestion, I misread it completely!
HotFlash — sorry, missed the edit moment
Well HotFlash, we’ve quite a bit more than that in the Globally-warmed south. We were about to break the record for the least snow, but tant pis(te).
Are you one of those wonderfully beautiful people who ride about Toronto on bikes smiling?
I though you were asking where VALERIE got the name “Brewster Jennings.” Missed Novacula completely.
Interesting. During Westmoreland’s initial questions, after a few excited Free Republic comments about how he was going to really dig into Plame, the comments. just. stopped. for. several. minutes…
Hotflash – hi! I could go for a drink right now!
BTW, I drove to & from Buffalo this week – I thought of you as I rounded the QEW curve near Burlington. Hope all is well and you don’t get too heavy of a storm. Believe it or not, it’s beautifully sunny in Detroit today. :)
RE: Pink
Thank you so much for your concern and for your support of CODEPINK.
That person in drag you are referring to is most definitely with CODEPINK and
served in the US Navy during the first Gulf War. She, like you, is a veteran.
Although we may not all agree on tactics, we are all working for peace, and
Midge works tirelessly for peace everyday. She is her own person, and I would
never presume to tell her what to do or not to do.
Once again, thank you for your concern.
Peace,
Samantha
CODEPINK
The whole time I was watching today I kept thinking, about plausible deniabillity, especially given this probably reaches up as high as it can. Could these {insert your favorite expletive} leakers have simply not wanted to know her status, therefore not done the due diligence Valerie spoke of, so that they could claim later they didn’t know Plame was covert? Maybe I’ve watched too many movies but it seems to me there was a calculated recklessness here. The main point was to send a message to potential whistle blowers in the Agency, and hell, if VPW was covert, bonus!
“Bozo at 249, we know “shiny object-ions” when we read them…
What does that have to do with anything” at 255
Ya got me wrong… it just seems to me that it should be pushed further. Valerie Plame was covert, as, I would think Brewster Jennings is a covert cover co., therefore, not only the leaking of Plame should be investigated, but the leak of her cover company should also be. To me, the WH should have had no question whether or not Val was covert… she was.
And it’s Bobonze… not Bozo… nice try though
Novak got the brewster jennings from the whos who.
“OOps, sorry, I misread, my apologies to Bobonze, that really is a good wquestion, I misread it completely!”
Apology accepted… disregard my last post (well my last corrective line anyway)
Peace JEP! :)
These freeper comments on the hearing are hysterical. I’m beginning to think they were born missing a gene.
ironranger,
i think I’m going to go back through and collect them for TRex’s show tonight.
AAARRRGGGHHHH David Gregory just said on Hardball that “Clinton did the same thing” re the USA firings, with no mention of the differing circumstances.
Ed*ard Teller I have been wondering why I prefer to hang about with you folk instead of my old Attilas. It is because they are all so thick in Wingnut Territory!
It is distracting, though, this afternoon, to know that while Australia murdered Scotland yesterday, today New Zealand is in the process of beating England down there in the WI. It is the cricket World Cup!
Why do we love Joe Wilson so much?
Here’s a few good reasons, taken from Wikipedia;
From 1988 to 1991, he was the Deputy Chief of Mission at the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad, Iraq. He was praised by George H. W. Bush after sheltering more than one hundred Americans at the embassy, despite Saddam Hussein’s threats to execute anyone who refused to hand over foreigners. As a result, in 1990, he also became the last American diplomat to meet with Saddam Hussein.[10] When Hussein sent a note to Wilson (along with other embassy heads in Iraq) threatening to execute anyone sheltering foreigners in Iraq, Wilson publicly repudiated the dictator by appearing at a press conference wearing a homemade noose around his neck and saying “If the choice is to allow American citizens to be taken hostage or to be executed, I will bring my own fucking rope,” a flair for public appearance that has become a trademark of Wilson.
JEP @ 1:02 pm -
This United States Supreme Court decision from 1807 discusses treason:
Ex parte Bollman
Wikipedia summary of Ex parte Bollman:
Jane – you have mail. ;~)
Here’s a question I don’t see asked much: How did Novak get the name “Brewster Jennings”… the cover agency she was “working” for? I think Congressman Waxman should look into that a little more.
I recall two sources:
1.) Bob Novak looked up her campaign contributions, public? FEC info. By law has to state employer, Valerie listed Brewster Jennings. Excellent procedure re ‘living the cover’ btw. Novak said “there is no such company, I’m convinced,” although it appeared in D&B. But if he really believed it, wouldn’t that have set off an alarm? Not to mention that he was asked not to print it by CIA spokesman Bill Harlow.
2.) Ah yes, Pincus and Allen in Oct 4, 2003 WaPo. Article says ‘admin confirmed’ it was on her W-2 forms for 1999, which, I do believe, are confidential.
re raven @ 84
i’ve let the codepink people know both about the drudge report photos and the potential for disruption by rollingthunder types on sunday.
not sure if this is how to post on this site, it’s my first time. i learned about the site yesterday from comments at talking points memo and have hardly slept and eaten since from reading what all’s here. it’s a VERY FINE site.
what does EPU’d mean?
Re the Yahoo news quote at 170 – that’s an AP report and quite slanted.
“Only about half of the committee’s members attended…”
– but no mention than it was Rethuglicans that were the missing half. I loved it when Davis said he didn’t know why they were there, couldn’t find anything out in open session, and then at the end Wetmoreland said quite pointedly to the chair that he was sorry they weren’t able to spend more time asking questions. Not that he had asked any intelligent ones.
>
– and no mention of the internal memorandum Plame cited that supported her contention, written by the CIA guy whose testimony on this was misrepresented by 3 Rethuglican senators in the “bipartisan” report, and which will be sought by the committee.
The AP writer decided to tell us that the Wilsons had a falling out with their first publisher. WTF? That’s only there to diminish the Wilsons. Thank You, AP (or is it Fox P?).
Stephen Parish;
“although giving away military secrets might.”
Wouldn’t willfully revealing the identity a CIA agent in wartime constitute “giving aid to the enemy?”
I’ve tried to make the point at this site before in various postings that maybe Plame was the real target of the leak because she was not giving Cheney etal the intelligence they wanted, rather she was telling them there weren’t any WMDs in Iraq. Todays testimony from the administrations friends leads me to think it is even more likely that I am right. Specifically they are trying to make the CIA look bad, saying the agency didn’t do enough to hide Valerie’s identity. Well maybe they wanted it to leak out on orders from Cheney and Bush. Maybe they deliberately weren’t too vigilant. Maybe ending Valerie Plame’s tenure at the CIA was their aim and Joe Wilson was a Machievellan bonus.
“what does EPU’d mean?”
Greenwarrior, Welcome!
It’s nice not to be the lone Puppy anymore!
I recently had to ask about “EPU” too, it means something that was left on the last thread when a new one gets posted, named after an FDLer whose insightful posts tend to be lost in a previous thread…
JEP @ 273: Wow, sounds a bit over the top, but if that’s true, it sure as hell beats strutting around on an aircraft carrier with nothing more to offer than a stuffed codpiece.
greenwarrior
EDU is a comment from a previous thread (I’m pretty sure). As far as the codepink person, I guess she has every right to say and do whatever whatever she want to. Doesn’t thrill me but as long as she wasn’t a plant. . .screw it.
clamberlite;
I stillthink they outed Plame to shut up all the other CIA agents who knew the run-up to war was based on bogus info.
THink about it, if they would out someone like Plame, who wouldn’t they out? Every agent in the world was put on a short leash by that outing.
Re JEP at 278. perris was wondering that very thing, way back when Fitz did his summation before the jury. Fitz used that phrase, we all got quite excited, asyou can imagine.
perris pointed out that treason in time of war is a capital offence. And it would seem the the Espionage Act would apply, even if the CIIPA does not.
Mandrake, just click the link I added to the first line, it goes to Wikipedia. Even more impressive is Joe’s resume, anyone who suggest he wasn’t qualified is just plain lying, if they know him at all they know his history, it wasn’t secret, like his wife.
clamberite:
No. Occam’s razor. Follow the testimony in the trial, the obsessive marking of the Wilson op-ed, Wilson’s publicity, etc. Your asking for an amazing coincidence (them being married) as an alternative explanation to what is obvious and attested to by everyone at trial, as well as the broader context.
perris pointed out that treason in time of war is a capital offence.
We are not, nor have we been since WWII, at war. If we had been Jane Fonda would be on ice.
“with nothing more to offer than a stuffed codpiece.”
…which I’m sure W spends a lot of time polishing…
greenwarrior – welcome! This place is a wealth of knowledge and highly addictive!
EPU means “evil parallel universe” – it actually is an acronym created because one of the FDL regular users, “Evil Parallel Universe” had the uncanny knack of posting questions or comments at the end of a thread at the same time a new one had been created. Because most users had moved on to the new threadm EPU would repost it into the new one. So, if someone posts something saying “EPUed”, it means they’re reposting an earlier comment into a newer thread.
elements of the seeayeeh seem to be wanting to deal with this ‘little’ matter…
it’s been said before that the Karl KKKrew have picked the wrong enemee
Hot chocolate is ready, made with real cocoa. Optional toppings include mini marshmallows, real whipped cream and/or a shot, recommendations are Cdn Club (House Std) or Bailey’s Irish Cream in honor of St. Patrick Fitzgerald’s Day.
I’ve been reading Tom Maguire’s posts today and let me just say delicately… he’s a freaking embarrassment.
He asks two questions and rates how the media treats the answers:
First, he asks if she was “involved” and then uses her testimony that she didn’t suggest him or have the authority to send him to argue that she is claiming to have zero “involvement” in the entire situation. He completely omits her testimony regarding her “involvement” in the genesis of the decision. AND he criticizes certain media outlets for cherrypicking testimony.
He points to Grenier’s testimony (per EW) and says that contradicts Plame, even though all he said was that Wilson was sent “because his wife worked there,” which is
basically truearguably not directly false and not disputed by any of her testimony.Not that any of this matters anyway because even if she did have the authority or did recommend him, Wilson never said Cheney did and it wouldn’t have justified outing her.
As for (2), what can I say? The facts speak for themselves and anybody continuing to argue that her status is still in question is being willfully obtuse.
Then, in a follow-up post, Maguire suggests that Waxman should be charged with perjury because he referred to an outdated executive order in his opening statement. Probably snark, but if you parse language the way he and Toensing have, then Waxman is technically correct because his statement:
is technically true. Her status was classified for a period under that provision.
Seriously, I haven’t read Maguire before, but if this is the caliber of talent the right is putting up against Marcy…
Am I the only one here that doesn’t drink?
ET-oh goody, late nite freeper snacks.
i dont either
David Gregory is covering for Tweety on Hardball right now. ALERT – David Shuster is up after this commercial break to talk about Plame’s testimony & the other events in the congressional hearing today. Yay!
greenwarrior
run away now while you can
“We are not, nor have we been since WWII, at war.”
I want to hear Bush say that, then I might agree. Officially he’s not a War President, we have never actually declared war.
You are technically correct, and isn’t that another issue we should address?
Why are we at war without a declaration of war? And isn’t that the very core of many of our misgivings.
Has FDL gotten its Pulitzer Prize yet??
You guys are the greatest–thanks for your work
Mable at 290,
M’dear, cocoa and Baliey’s?
Yes indeedy. I think they looked at who the wife was and figured they’d hit the jackpot. Little did they know!
Same as the USAtty’s. Do *not* piss off several hundred prosecutors! That one’s gonna be fun. Popcorn! And Justice!
They have been surrounded by toadies for so long they don’t realize what angry honest people can do.
jep
I’m whitcha
raven i am a ’social’ drinker. 2 drinks a night max. 2 nights in a row max.
preferably irish whiskey on the rocks with a bit of water.
Purists will be horrified at the ice and water: unless they are Scotch fanatics in which case the mention of Irish whiskey already indicates impurity!:)
Raven, you aren’t alone…
I’m hoping the good ambassador stops by some time today or tomorrow to discuss the hearings
/would love his wife to say hello as well
JEP @ 2:11 pm -
You’ve raised a good question, which, in turn, inspires other questions: (1) does wartime include engagements in undeclared wars? and (2) what distinction should be made between unlawful dissemination of military secrets and of other secrets?
When time permits, please read Chief Justice John Marshall’s opinion (especially his comments concerning treason) in Ex parte Bollman and look at 18 USC 793, especially subsections (d) and (e) to see what those two subsections of 18 USC 793 have to say about divulging classified information to those not authorized to receive it.
Mabel. . .a comfort. Actually one of my favorite bars in Champaign was Mabel’s!
Raven,
No you’re not, lots of folks here who don’t, and for lots of reasons. So, plain hot chocolate? Lessee, I also have diet cola and soda water. Or I could squeeze you some orange juice or make you a smoothie. We aims ta please.
Good Grief! I’m up to # 609 in the FreeRepublic live blog of Waxman’s hearing. Here it is:
A question I wish someone would ask.
Mrs. Plame, prior to the Niger incident, did you or your husband receive any money or other compensation from the government of Iraq or any agent acting on behalf of the government of Iraq?
OT -
US Army sez Sunni death squads broken (can’t find the link, but it was in today’s propaganda feed)
Today in his Friday prayer message, Shia leader Sadr told believers: “No! No! No! to America”, saying “I’m confident that you consider them your enemies.”
Mission accomplished?
Latest on the Atty purge scandal via TPMmuckraker: WH tells Democrats they won’t give them any info this week:
info from Conyers
HotFlash @ 292
I’ve gotten a new bottle of Jameson’s, seeing as the old one has just about enough for one drink left in it. St Paddy’s, after St Fitz’s.
HotFlash:
How about some Jameson’s in lieu of St. Patty’s Day?
ET @ 309
They ought to be asking that of Darth and his company. (But they won’t. Because Darth is a ‘patriotic Amer’can’.)
Topanga lib @ 238– I noticed and it was almost eerie; it happened more than once, iirc but I saw it as Leonard saying it was only the preznit, he would NOT say the VP does.
thank goodness twolf1 @ 200!
Wow – just catching Shuster’s report, and I’m seeing Toensing for the first time. Wow. I mean, wow. That’s some hair color and makeup.
OOOH – Matt Cooper on Hardball to comment on today’s events!
Thks Flash, it’s been 13 years so you’d think I’d be used to it!
LandOfTheFree
Two bagger ain’t she?
Ed* @309
Ha ha ha ha ha! Really? I try to avoid looking at the wingnuttery, but that is too cute! Really?
Joe Wilson was personally saving Americans from Saddam Hussein when George Bush was busy doing coke off his dad’s ‘hunting’ knife.
Sure Bobonze,
Just don’t set the stuff on fire. Raven, I don’t mean to make anyone uncomfortable. The drinks here are sort of like the synthehol served in Ten Forward. Sociable, non-toxic and cheap. :)
Flash, I’m cool, didn’t mean to make no fuss.
Ron Brownstein on Hardball says the only people interested in the Plame case are the left blogosphere.
Matt Cooper said “Look” three times in his first 4 sentences. I’m sick of the over use of this term. What does it mean, “now I’m going to stop the bullshit”?
Joining the queu late, Ms. Toensing’s talking points suggested she had been retained as counsel for Unindicted John Doe*s in the White House. She was on tne agenda only at the insistence of the Republican minority on Mr. Waxman*s committee. Her talking points had obviously been worked out with them ahead of time. She insisted that public testimony was the unassailable truth, and skipped over that she considererd it an adequate substitute for investigation or direct knowledge. Hers were the words of a zealous advocate, not an expert witness. Testimony is limited to questions asked and answered. It reveals only part of a story from one perspective. Ms. Toensing seemed as resistant to true facts as Mr. Bush. How she could then claim to apply these *facts* to the law in order to conclude, eg, that Ms. Plame was not cover, is anybody*s wild guess. Mr. Waxman was appropriately skeptical in putting into the record that Ms. Toensing*s claims would be fact checked.
Brownstien’s such a hack.
Why do Dems have to choose their battles, they had the battles handed to them by Bushco and the lilly-livered Republicans who wouldn’t protect the public or our Constitution..
Raven, Mr HotFlash has you beat by 10. But I think he’s older than you. He wants to go to CA (his old stomping ground) for his 25th. Great excuse for a long trip!
323Raven says
March 16th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
Matt Cooper said “Look” three times in his first 4 sentences. I’m sick of the over use of this term. What does it mean, “now I’m going to stop the bullshit”?
I think it means “Look, you idiots, I’m going to have to spell this out for you in simple terms because otherwise you are too stupid to understand”
At least that’s how it comes across to me.
Raven…a bar named Mabel’s…….
we here at the wig shack appreciate that!
here’s a little ‘tanka’ in homage:
down at Mabel’s Bar
exhausted from free pretzels
a slouched monkey dreams
painting a commissioned scene
President Joe Hill smiling…
(oh well, it was a thought!!!)
way OT but for all the petlovers here:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17650075/
Since PJ Evans is buying, I’ll have one on the rocks, thanks.
raven et al —
Me too — not even Jim’s Koolaid
Or, the way Biden and others use “look,” it means “ok, i just figured out what I really want to say.”
Something like:
Q: Is that what you think?
A: It is what I thi… Look, we all know, blah, blah, blah…
Biden does that all the time.
Ed*
how can you even read that stuff, I’d need to START drinking before I logged on, but you told us that already didn’t you.
You do have a shower at home, or at least a bath?
Pryor’s on Hardball now, saving his ass for the Senate vote he just screwed up, exposing Gonzo for the lies he perpetrated…
“Ron Brownstein on Hardball says the only people interested in the Plame case are the left blogosphere.”
Whaddaya expect? Another mouthpiece for the RW (Brownstein that is.) The outing of a CIA agent IS important, and should be considered as such by more than just “left bogospheres”. God those people who consider themselves “journalists” piss me off to no end!
Imagine if Pres Clinton did the same… there’d be a right wing lynch mob!… in the literal sense IMO.
BTW, OffTopic: I’m new posting here, and I want to give total Props to Jane and FDL for all there work… Ms. Hampsher has been great throughout the Lamont campaign(where I first heard of her) as well as her coverage of the Libby trial and today’s hearings. Way to Go!
Pryor says, “I am the Senator problem” with regard to USA firing/appointment in Arkansas
It’s a dirty job, but somebody has to do it. Just cracked open another beer. I’m up to FreeRepublic live blog comment #751:
When are they going to be prosecuted for helping terrorists in Iraq? When will our ace Justice Department get going?
So many alternative universes, so little reality…
I’m watching Valerie on C-Span now and she has some patience. I would stand up and be screaming–I was covert already!! Are you all deaf or what!!
Alaskans sure are are tough (said in small, awed voice).
Welcome, Bobonze.
Jane’s name is spelled “Hamsher,” just fyi.
Come back often!
ROFL – their side, the Freeper side, wants to cast the movie too. #761:
When they make the movie, Dakota Fanning should play Valerie.
So are Canucks! Tough, that is.
Boggles the mind, doesn’t it Ed*ard Teller?
Crawl line on Hardball says Edwards is calling for cabinet level “poverty czar.”
About time!
Good idea, and it needs some serious consideration.
Wonder what the fundies and Evangelicals think about feeding the poor?
Seems I remember reading something about that “feed the poor” concept, long ago, in the Bible.
Question for Attorneys:
What if someone were to digitize the hearings from C-Span, and give DVD copies to friends – copyright violation?
You know, just asking…
jep @ 299
Only Congress can Declare War and it has not, so GW is doing all sorts of things he could be slapped for.
“Mission Accomplished” was strictly correct, even though the Mission was Accomplished incompetently, in that the invasion had been successful. Of course, we then discovered that the Bush WH had made no plans for Occupation and Aid Of The Civil Power, so now we have a Resisted Occupation, counter insurgency and a civil war which we are witnessing.
This is not semantics, but we went to war, not War, when we invaded, but we are not At War now. The War On Terra is another crock, because Bush’s rabbiting demonstrates he does not understand. Terrorism is a way of resisiting and conducting warfare, like ‘blitzkrieg’, ‘bombing’, or ‘trench warfare’. Another piece od=f meaningless GW Bush bullshit.
JEP says,
“Wonder what the fundies and Evangelicals think about feeding the poor?”
They think it’s fine, as long as the government pays them to do it and they are free to prosletize.
They’re starting to wilt:
These questions are no longer about Plame being a CIA agent
Larry Johnson will be on Countdown tonight.
Liberals are the only ones interested in the Valerie Plame affair but Freeper Republic is up to post #751.
newtonusr,
Giving is not a problem. Selling is a potential problem
IINAL ; )
So this is where everyone’s been!
A Republican operative on Fox stated that V. Plame was a “3rd rate analyist”. Good Party loyalist to the bitter end. In a matter of months many of these same Party aparachiks will be bitting down on the cyanide capsules issued by the Party when their Leader and his entourage are frog marched out of Washington.
Cozumel – thanks.
Thanks Neurophius (#339)… my bad… I keep thinking “Hampshire” as in the state New Hampshire, and didn’t correct myself thoroughly… my apologies to Ms. Hamsher for the misspell.
Ed*ard Teller, you are some kind of hero. Who else would have the fortitude to read through all that lunacy? I’m really looking forward to reading the cream of the crop later tonight. I’m almost weeping with laughter already, just at the thought of it. Many, many thanks.
Albatross at 17:
Amen, amen!!!
I think it’s interesting that Ron Brownstein specifically mentioned the YearlyKos panel that was moderated by Jane, and which included Christy and Marcy, as well as Murray Waas, Joe Wilson, and Dan Froomkin. Good job FDL!
p.s. ET, do you get the feeling, as you read, that the wingnuts can’t believe that Valerie Plame really worked for the CIA? I think they believe that no Democrat could be so patriotic as to put herself at risk for her country. They must be just squirming at the evidence of their complete idiocy.
Have a drink on me—I wish I could supply you with the very best single-malt. You have earned it.
Bluetoe:
So Republican operatives on Faux have access to CIA employee evaluations?
Even if they did, wouldn’t that probably be classified?
Another right wing lie.
watching Valerie Wilson’s testimony now.
She sure knows a lot of detail about what came out at the Libby trial.
I think we had a rather famous lurker around here for the live-blogging.
A reminder that Donita’s thread is upstairs and that 300 plus comment threads make the servers groan badly. Its ok to take the Plame convo with you there, we have some nice tunes for the background music this week and would love to have you all drop by.
“A Republican operative on Fox stated that V. Plame was a “3rd rate analyist”.
From the school of “What do we do when the lies run out?”
Character assasination…
raven — The Class of 93 also counts, and yup it gets me too oftenish.
New thread: emptywheel.
Lou Dobb’s is covering Val Plame now
After this, I’m moving to Donita’s place. I think we just wanted to let you guys groove on her sounds. One last freeper comment, though:
Isaw about 30 seconds of her testimony w/o sound, which is as it should be.
Republicans are loyal to the Party before they are loyal to the nation. They are traitors to the American democratic ideal and need to be excised from the body politic. Someone once said their is a cancer in the White House. Today that cancer, Republicanism, has metastized throughout the land.
George: So what the hell do we do now Turdblossom?
KKKarl: Send out the lying zombie and we’ll wait this thig out.
Upstairs two threads, people.
I didn’t realize why my comment on a previous thread was removed, but now I understand that I was urging action that wasn’t strictly legal, so I want to apologise here for myself.
Snark is my first reaction to most things, and it gets out before I can control my fingers. I will try to clean up my act.
Hugs to all Fine Firedogs.
CHS et al, please have a relaxing evening. You must’a busted your energy supply today.
Hey HotFlash, I live in Toronto as well. I have been reading the great posts here since the Libby trial and have been telling people this is by far THE best site for reporting and comments.
Sorry to disagree with you, but why are you wasting fine Canadian Whisky by adding Hot Chocolate to it ;-)
Yeah this is a big story and all but what is really important is who the father of Anna Nicoles child is, any news??? Has Ms.Spears shaved any more hair off her head?? I am really concerned!
I hate to admit my ignorance (and personal meanness of character, and superficiality, and agism and, yes, sexism) regarding one of the current cast of characters in this latest White House coverup, but during a committee break in prep for testimony by Knodell and the other guy, there was this dumpy woman with poor posture in rust 70s stretch pants and a matching fallen do gabbing to no one in particular in front of an open camera, displaying the classic, pretend self-importance of an ordinary citizen impressed by ‘being on TV’ during the committee’s short recess.
I had no idea who she was, but she drew my offhand assessment as a mildly neurotic staffer who was soaking up her brief moment in the glitter of a C-span live feed but who’d neglected to obey even minimal fashion and runway tips before facing away from her ‘audience’ with her hand in said stretch pocket, smearing her pants across a Curves™-forgotten derriere for all the world to fight or flee (or confess to masterminding 9/11).
You can imagine my surprise one panel later.
I did not know who Toensing was until today, and looked up on the internet as much as I could, and it seems to agree with the comments here.
Still I think Waxman and his Dems looked rather weak against her. They were not prepared to dispute her idea of covert being different under the Act, which they had to know would be her point, how about a slide with that part of the act? Also cutting her off, made them look bad, though I see the point about filibuster.
I thought we knew something about how the info got from the CIA to the White House?
Still all in all the Dems made some powerful points, may have lost some for Unnecessary roughness against the white house security guy who seemed perhaps just at unease before a committee rather than inept?
incontext at 373 – I’m sure you’ve been EPU’d, but that was a priceless observation, just priceless.
Not to give Vickie T. any slack, but from a lawyers perspective, she is correct that the key issue is whether Valerie Plame was a “covert agent” as specifically defined under this narrowly drawn criminal statute.
That is one obstacle Fitzgerald certainly would have faced in any prosecution of the underlying crime
It is not necessarily good enough that Haydn may have characterized VP as “covert” agent generally –that likely has a different meaning under CIA lexicon. Haydn’s statement would help much more if he said she was a “covert agent” as defined under the IIPA.
I agree knowledge of covert status would have been an important defense–did Cheny, Libby et.al know that Plame had “served” outside the US within the past 5 years etc. These are the type of details that would have made prosecution of the underlying crime difficult–but it is also why Fitzgerald characterized Libby’s lies as throwing sand in the face of the umpire and casting a cloud over the VP. As Fitz said–someimes the truth removes the cloud, sometimes it doesn’t, but you must have the truth the know. Fitz did not.
I’m wondering if I said something wrong… I mean did something wrong when I called VT a bunch of stuff like obstructionist, irritable, annoying, irritating, querulous, bullyng, etc?
I don’t see my comment. (vanity vanity) lol
actually looking for conversation.
Anyway.
She sure was a horror.
oops… wrong thread.
duh.
Waxman was fabulous.
On March 16th, 2007 at 2:25 pm, Raven @ 294 wrote:
“Am I the only one here that doesn’t drink?”
Nope. Unless you count O’Doul’s as drinking.
Hey, anyone else notice that when Vicky Toenails “smiles,” she looks remarkably like a cat. I can almost see the whiskers.
Bob in HI