
Donate to the Wilson's Defense Trust.
Here's Waxman's committee hearing page. Here are the witnesses:
- Ms. Valerie Plame Wilson, former employee, Central Intelligence Agency
- Dr. James Knodell, Director, Office of Security, The White House
- Mr. Bill Leonard, Director, Information Security Oversight Office, National Archives and Records Administration
- Mr. Mark Zaid, Attorney
- Ms. Victoria Toensing, diGenova & Toensing, LLP
Feed the comments with updates, gang, and we'll try to send in some hearing room color for the main page post on fifteen minute intervals.
_________________
"I don't have any knowledge of any investigation in my office of this matter." Mr. Knodell, director of the WH Office of Security for the Executive Office of the President and Vice President. And, in case you were wondering, Mr. Knodell is unaware of any action being taken whatsoever with regard to Mr. Rove's security clearance or otherwise.
_________________
Rep. Watson: Under the requirements of classified information handling, there ought to have been an investigation as to the disclosure of classified information. Watson points out that Mr. Knodell has worked for this office since August 2004, and that there is still no knowledge as to how Rove found out about Valerie Plame Wilson's identity. Has there been any investigation? No.
12:55 pm ET:
Rep. Van Hollen — get to the point that the WH would not run a collateral investigation. So it is the policy of the WH to take no action, to not ask any question, to see if, at the very least, that the security clearance should not be revoked? Mr. Knodell says no, an investigation should be done.
VH asks: why aren't you undertaking an investigation today? This is all now publicly disclosed classified information. You've said it is not the policy to look into an ongoing investigation. This information is now public — why aren't you doing this today? Mr. Knodell says he'll take this back tothe office and review it with "senior management." VH asks: So then it is the policy of the Wh not to undertake any internal investigation so long as there is any criminal investigation ongoing? Knodell says he thinks so. Leonard talks about the competing interest priorities in an investigative matter — competing interests in an administrative inquiry and criminal investigation. (CHS notes: he is correct here, because you don't want anything compromising the criminal investigation — but generally, you coordinate with the agency doing the investigation — in this case, it would have been the FBI — and I'm wondering if that was EVER even attempted?)
1:00 pm ET:
Rep. Tom Davis goes back to vouch the record that 5th Amendment privileges for people potentially under criminal investigation that could potentially thwart an internal administrative investigation, presumably, according to Davis. Davis and Waxman are now going back and forth on the internal investigation issue — and the competing priorities and interests question.
Now onto Rep. Hodes.
Pach reports from the hallway: Valerie walking down the hall, and mobbed by photographers before she entered the elevator.
1:05 pm ET:
Hode is now getting into the NIE and the instadeclassification. (CHS says: boo yah!) Leaking classified information is a crime — yes. Getting into the Libby testimony regarding Cheney's authorization to disclose NIE portions to Judy Miller by the Vice President and President.
Hodes asks: have you ever seen such selective classification before, in your experience in government? No. NIE was not formally declassified until July 18th — even though Libby claimed it was declassified on July 8th. Does this raise questions for you? (CHS says: It does for me. I'm just saying…)
Hodes says: Is it your testimony that the President could choose to selectively declassify the NIE portions for only three reporters, but that it could stay classified for everyone else? The President's order allows for him to declassify on his own, according to Mr. Leonard.
On to Eleanor Holmes Norton, who is asking whether the security office can do independent investigations or whether they have to get a sign-off from someone to complete an investigation? Knodell says he would report if he started one.
Fresh thread to complete questioning of this panel.
Related posts:
- HJC Schedules “Get Democrats to Cave on PATRIOT” Hearing
- Blue Dog Letter to Waxman Wants PhRMA Deal to Replace Chairman’s Language in Health Bill
- PATRIOT Renewal Hearing, Day One Wrap Up: Who Protects Us from the Protectors?
- Silvestre Reyes Announces Investigation into Violations of National Security Act
- Breuer’s Claims about Future Investigations Undermined by Cheney’s Claims about the Past





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Yay, Watson!
Pach!
AG Fitz!
zed
J U S T I C E !!!
Is it good for y’all? *G*
Knodell is definitely doing damage to BushCo at this point
hey gang, drive by from work and CSpan cut out – did Toesuck spew yet ???
{{{{Rachel Corrie}}}}
Truth being revealed today, the fourth anniversary of her death in Rafah.
I sure hope the Dems doing the questioning are having as much fun as we are. I’m doing a Snoopy dance here. Lovin’ this!
Waccamaw, I think I need a smoke. *g*
I’m getting some anguished email from my conservative relatives and friends that maybe she was a real undercover agent.
Toesuck not up yet.
Watson reminds me of Barbara Jordan.
Van Hollen is nailing Knodell!
Ohlbermann is going to be loving on this tonight! Hee…
Get ‘im, Van Hollen!
Toesuck not on yet, cbl. You got time to get to a TV or laptop.
I would say that “no investigation” serves as a bombshell.
Knodell: Rove’s next “fall guy” Bank on it! He’ll be in Dubai by next week!
EPU’d from last thread:
From Matt Apuzzo’s AP story, concerning Valerie Plame’s NOC status:
Bullshit.
a) It was made crystal-clear during the trial, as Marcy and Jane have explained during the Libby liveblogging.
b) The defense wanted to muddy the waters WRT this is so their enablers in the Mighty Wurlitzer can keep screaming “she was never shown to be covert so there was no crime!”
OMG.
This is just NUTS.
CIA won’t investigate leaks? Bullcrap!!!!!!!!!!!
” cbl says:
March 16th, 2007 at 9:53 am
hey gang, drive by from work and CSpan cut out – did Toesuck spew yet ???”
If your computer is able and ready go to:
http://www.oversight.house.gov/story.asp?ID=1205
(You got it, in your face, live web broadcast)..
Not to be missed….
VanHollen – dat’s my Congresscritter! He also took over [Wretched] Steney Hoyer’s role w/DCCC.
Interesting to watch Chris [Van H]. I believe he has a background as a litigator. Sure sounds like it from his questioning.
Will review with senior management when returns to office about doing administrative investigation Nodell
i promise, mr chairman, i’ll hand my homework in on time, next time, honest!
I’m wondering if he’s going to ask who told him not to investigate.
Knodell: when I get back to the office I’ll review this with senior management
priceless!
I loved it when the lady said ‘Dereliction of Duty’.
Slam!
But W. is going to fire anyone who leaked classified info, right?
Or (at least) who broke the law, right?
Can Rep. Waxman prepare him a list of those who should be gone by now?
Would W.’s name appear on that list?
Knodell looks to lawyer-up – “I’ll take the question of the lack of an investigation back to my supervisor”, to paraphrase…
You’re office is supposed to look into any disclosure of classified, whether intentional or not. Yet still no investigation even up to this point.
Response: I will take it up with my superiors.
“Why aren’t you investigating this right now?”
Oh, oh, oh. Yeah!!
“I’ll take this back to the office and discuss it with upper management” or something like that.
Oh, dude, you are SO toast.
Leonard is trying to bail out Knodell
Leonard feeling sorry for Knodell.
Mr. No Tell is going to take this back and review with senior management as to why the fuck we have not been investigating.
Van Hollen clarifies that there would be no investigation internally as long as there is a criminal investigation. “Is that written down somewhere.”
No Tell looks like he has an Excedrin headache.
Bill Leonard: When there are competing administrative and criminal investigations, “it can be awkward. Someone could say that an administrative investigation could be an obstruction of justice.”
Yes, I’m sure that someone made that considered judgment. Because no one in the White House would EVER want to obstruct justice.
Knodell- Get Me Outta Here.
medaka!
Great to see you!!
Phoenix Woman -
I was at the trial, and yes, it was clear to me too.
“The dog ate my homework, but I’ll see if I can get him to barf it up, and I’ll deliver that to you.”
White house rules supposed to be the same as any other organization? Van Hollen
Just brought up guy who spoke up about AbuGraib and his security clearance was cancelled.
Investigation must be launched.
There was plenty of time before DOJ took the case when they could have started an internal investigation.
Hogwash.
I’d love to see someone ask about other conversations with “senior management,” starting with a simple question: To whom do you report?”
Waxman: That appears to be a double standard..LOL
observation: two Dems from MD on this committee
Here we go with security clearances!
hi egreggy! hard to stay awake here — getting it’s 2am…
“That certainly appears to be a double standard.” Ya think? It’s called IOKIYAR.
Why aren’t they asking this security officer if anyone told his office NOT to investigate the leak? That could be an interesting answer….
Mrs. Knodell (aka, The Wife): “So, how was your day, honey?”
Davis again
Davis: There was an immediate investigation…
Does that include the 12-hour-shred-everything heads up Ashcroft gave the White House?
Waxman: Thank you, Mr. Van Hollen let me sum that up: yes that appears to be a double standard.
Go Henry, for the record
Obviously Davis made sure his roots were taken care of for this. /snerkin’
and *getting* hard to type… and without drinks! heh!
Davis: “There was a criminal referral almost immediately, right? So there was no reason for you to stop buying stuff on eBay in order to do your own investigation, right?”
Holy crap. Are there that many Terminally Stupid People in Davis’ district that he keeps getting re-elected?
“The professionals in the DOJ” — y’mean, like Abu G?
Waxman back to Bush’s bs about firing anyone involved with the leak. And he actually did nothing. Waxman is mad, though smiling.
Waxman: prez said he was outraged, heads would roll
“…AND THAT PERSON WOULD BE FIRED!!”
Go HENRY!!!!!!! WOOOT!
Didn’t want top officials to be embarassed by the truth. Waxman says
Waxman: so why didn’t the prez ask anyone to do an investigation?
Luv me some Hank!!!!
Waxman going after the Shrub for his obvious lies about an investigation, and lack of firing afterwards…
“…the professionals at the abunocchio department…”
Leonard: “When you have those competing considerations, you have to work that out.”
Waxman: “Sounds like the competing priorities were not to embarrass senior WH personell.”
SNAP
Waxman is great!
Nope, sure wouldn’t want his top hatchlings to be embarrassed by the truth! Hehe.
Quick, someone find Jeffery Townsend!! (friend of Fran?)
Jeffrey Thompson predesscor at Nodell’s job – Nodell doesn’t know where he is now. Paraguay?
Waxman is clearly a hopeless snarkaholic.
Knodell: IANAL
Jeffrey Thompson was No Tell’s predecessor at the White House!!!
Mr. Thompson, call 1800 LAWYERS!!!! That’s 1 800 LAWYERS!!!!
who was your predecessor at the WH ??
“Jeffrey Thompson” — I believe he moved down to GA…
GOOGGLE!
WHO WAS YOUR PREDECESSOR AT THE WHITE HOUSE? Jeffrey Thompson. AND WHERE IS HE NOW? Apparently left without leaving a forwarding address.
Hodes! Hahahaha!
Can Tom Davis ask an honest question?
Knodell: I have had discussions with no one about investigations
Republican perspective: That would lead to an awkward situation
Democratic perspective: The truth might have been embarrassing for you.
Knodell: I’m senior management
Hodes is killing them!
Hodes firing on all cylinders.
(Mebbe they can hire me for Knodell’s non-job.)
Here’s the Butterfield moment! “Who do you report to?”
So you’re going to report to yourself?
“You’re going to go back and report to yourself?” I am DYING. This is too damn wonderful.
Biodun, Isn’t that actually three reps from MD? Cummings, Sarbanes, and van Hollen?
Hodes is on a tilt. It’s a thing of beauty.
This is fucking beautiful!
You’re senior management aren’t you?
Yes
So you’re going to take it up with yourself???
Hodes is asking if Knodell will be taking him up with senior management, and if senior management is him?
Sandra Evans is CEO of OA, reports to mr. allan swampen (?).
They don’t even want to know who is responsible – obscuring as fast as he can – they can.
Oxide @ 71:
Yes, indeed.
When you say you are going to go back to talk to senior management, YOU are senior management.
WHO DO YOU REPORT TO.
Tom Drier. Report to anyone else. He is my direct report. He reports to Sandra Evans. Mr. Sweneman. He is a political appointee.
Mr. Sweneman, call 1800 LAWYERS!! That 1 800 LAWYERS!!!!!
Knodell is caught in deerlights
I sense the forming of a support group, Snarkaholics Anonymous.
This is awesome.
Looks like all traces of gloves are long gone! It’s spring, and freshness is in the air!
It’s so good to see the opposition being handed their pants, and all of that was done with no smears, lies or fabrication.
angie
I promise to do it at least as well.
Fran’s husband is John Townsend
Hi, my name is ???? and I’m a Snarkaholic. I’ve recently been on a “snark binge”
Knodell: leaking classified info is a crime, yes
Down Goes Frazier! Down Goes Frazier! Down Goes Frazier!
Now for the instant declassification matter.
Hodes is putting every one of the dots on the page, for “someone” to connect.
Is Knodell’s job to investigate, or to be told to investigate?
Hodes is trying to set up a RICO scenario …
Ohhh…proper declassification procedures. You can see it giving Knoedel cramps…
YES!!! Disclosure of NIE! That’s the next big bug in all of this. Who can/did authorize this?
Bring on the Depends!!
Hodes: could be a criminal conspiracy?
We’re within two questions of having sworn testimony that cheney committed a crime in leaking select portions of the NIE. JEEZUS.
Can we say
“CRIMINAL CONSPIRACY”?
Knodell has been completely demolished. BushCo will have a bad weekend. This on top of everything else this week
My my: Thanks for posting that video feed, it’s much better than c-span. :-)
CRIMINAL CONSPIRACY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
now we’re getting to the good stuff. the NIE gets magically declassified, classified again, then declassified.
FYI “snarkaholic” is a Trex construct. Showed up on a Late Nite thread a long time ago.
And hey, I think we’ve found at least one GS-15 who played Minesweeper.
KO will need the whole hour on this tonight.
NIE declassification: Got a clue?
Both: No.
Depends won’t cut it, get NASA diapers!
no one has first hand knowledge of anything. perfect for this do-nothing, know-nothing gang of criminals…the wheels are coming off the bus!
*xyz – Howard, is that you? lol
These hearings are the best reality TV ever!
I wonder if Henry, Hodes & Van Hollen coordinated their areas of questioning prior to the hearing.
I am lovin’ this!
but what about the VP’s authority to declassify?
Why would Snarkoholics ever want to stop?
Does anyone else get sick when they hear “President’s absolute authority?”
Norton D-DC
Wrt overlap between administrative investigations and criminal investigations, I’m confident there’s a Security clearance equivalent to “administrative leave.” Allowing Rove, Fleisher, and many others to retain their classified status, prior to resolution of the criminal investigation, could become the real problem.
Oh Eleanor — cut right to the chase!
And how is Victoria doing, watching all this unfold, knowing she’s up next . . .
Knew Henry had big party plans for today’s hearing, but this is sooooo entertaining…
blogger buggered?
Breaking -
“mysterious package” just outside WH gates
redefining anemic and pathetic on a daily basis
These chucklehead witnesses are just a couple of sacrificial lambs. If Rove/Cheney get real lucky, their witnesses might say something that appears to get them off the hook. If not, no biggie.
Well, they’re clearly on Yoo’s e-mail list: [Absolute power of the President. . . .}
Knodell: cannot initiate investigations on my own
I smell barbecued pig roasting over a spit
Why didn’t this man initiate an investigation?
Great moments in TeeVee: “Got Impeachment?”
I’m sure Toensing is is frantically searching her purse for a bottle of Valiyum that she can swallow whole.
oooh! a science film!
The Wilsons’ civil case is getting so much fodder today.
Oh, boy, I sure hope Knodell used his super duper uber deodorant today. He’s GOT to be sweating bullets.
rolling the videotape of Scottie.
Christy – per a conversation I had with marcy last weekend, I sent you an email at your reddhedd email address. Did you get it?
showing clips of McLellan presser
Scotty Scotty Scotty we miss u so!!! Bahahahaha
Ask the question – why was there no investigation? Who told you not to investigate?
It’s so good to see the opposition WITHOUT ANY PANTS!!!!
Knodell sweating bullets and shitting bricks. Good thing for him it wasn’t the other way `round….
Oh frabjus day. She asked about Rove’s security clearance.
Sgt. Schultz for President!
(He knows what he “doesn’t know”)
I can’t wait to hear Toensing now that Plame has testified that she qualifies as a protected classified covert agent. Will she say Plame is wrong? Will the Post print a retraction and will she apologize for suggesting the prosecutor should be prosecuted. Will her State Bar disciplinary board be listening? They should, writing an article clearly designed to tarnish jurors and to call for the frivolous prosecution of others to gain an advantage in a an ongoing criminal case is, I’m sure, a violation of the rules of conduct in her state.
I wonder if Turdblossom is watching today.
We want Vickie!
Ya, why does KKKarl have his clearance?
Even if a matter could risk USA or covert agent, the admin process stands back until a higher standard of proof has finished its course. Wouldn’t that risk security not to even begin?
What he saw in the press told him there was no wrongdoing? IN THE FUCKING PRESS?
Knodell: haven’t seen criminal investigation reports
Was that “Jeff Gannon” in the pink suit?
for those of you doing blow by blow info, thank you……..
i am—no cable, on dial-up—hanging on your info……..loving every gory detail beyond words…..
You’re not even trying to plug the leak while a USAtty conducts an investigation.
Whammo!
Back to the chart.
Holmes asking whether Knodell could plug leaks
Who’s dat that you’re protecting?????
The Pres VP, at the expense of the rest of the country???
next panel coming up
Waxman: Members want a 2nd round
No Tell: Oh sh*t
Cummings up
Cumings: we’re trying to help you do your job
Knodell sweating bullets and shitting bricks
I’m sure that Knodell will find that shitting bricks is a lot easier with his spiffy new asshole….
Second round. Come out of your corners. Oh, wait, Knodell is climbing over the ropes, out of the ring. Back to the office to seek advice from his superiors. Wait, wait. He IS his OWN superior.
Waxman and the others smell blood, so they’re keeping this doofus on the hot seat for a while longer.
Cummings: Davis kept making a point that Rove and other Admins knew Wilson was NOC. If they knew, it would be a serious matter. But the regulations cover negligent disclosures.
OH OUCH!
Norton was excellent, not just from answers she got, but for the lack of them.
cummings – investigate even negligent leaks, is that not correct?
Just a quick observation: can you imagine how fast a physician or a lawyer would be sued in this country if they disclosed the confidential medical condition of a patient, or if they revealed the details of a client’s legal situation?
I just know too many people who in their own work would be sued if they revealed confidential info that is FAR less significant than info about WMD. One conservative that I know said, “If I revealed confidential information, I’d lose my practice.”
Congress needs to clean this up so the nation can move on. The prosecutor’s was the last straw. Plame is icing.
Lawyer Smith says:
These are very good questions.
Did you brief anybody about security procedures?
Did you use Plame as an example?
HAH HAHHAHAH!
NO SIR! He actually said No, they didn’t.
He is his own
superiorposterior.Asshole.
One huge thing that no one seems to have picked up on (though admittedly they’ve already got some tremendous nuggets) — that the WH has tremendously dissed Waxman’s Committee by sending someone (Knodell) who’s a career sacrificial lamb who’s three levels down from a political appointee who no one has ever heard of.
This is how the WH wants to deal with accountability moments.
Norton is a very wise woman. She plays her hand very well despite what some may think!
I really believe Vicki was played by some clever people.
She still deserves what’s coming.
This just a preliminary hearing. Just wait till they digest this testimony and then
go in for the kill!
caerbannog @ 168
I am convulsing with uncontrollable laughter.
Not until 2005.
Even if they didn’t know disclosure not authorized to receive it could have been a violation of executive order.
President set up rules, people will have to answer…but no action when his people did it.
daily show!!!!
Someone please provide link to better reception than cspan
Cummings – when you give security briefings, do you use this case as an example of what should not happen? Because its out there!! Its Here!!
Knobell – no ..
Waxman – we’ll leave that up to The Daily Show (!!!)
waxman — “the daily show!”
woot!
I hear ya valletta 183. Definitely a snarkaholic.
Waxman: Daily Show will show clips of prez saying heads would roll
Fresh thread, for Panel I.
Go to the Daily show to get the heads will roll tape. Mad props to Stewart. Ha ha. More reliable than the MSM.
Zemog,
http://www.oversight.house.gov/story.asp?ID=1205
“I really believe Vicki was played by some clever people.”
please, don’t treat us like children…
Waxman: I’m sorry we don’t have that clip of the President calling for an investigation, I guess the we’ll see that on the Daily Show. Hilarious!
http://oversight.house.gov/story.asp?ID=1205
Republicans asking for civility from Watson?
GIMME a Break!
Daily Show ref in Congressional hearing. The first, but not the last?
Waxman to Watson: let’s not make things personal
Oh oh. “Have not been notified the investigation is over”.
Yo medaka, I’m a danio!
They keep trying to fall back on the criminal proceedings to CYA.
Waxman: Other examples of leak disclosures. Bob Woodward dragged in, book based on contemporaneous notes during NSC meetings. Written record classified unclassified. War-making involving secret information he had used without jeopardizing security.
Woodward had access to classified data. Was this unique? Was it part of a broader pattern, or selective disclosure?
The White House HAD NO RIGHT to defer a determination of whether classified information was leaked to a determination of whether a crime was committed. The standards are different, and it is possible that a leak would be a violation of regulations prohibiting such leaks regardless of whether it rose to the level of a crime, especially since the purpose of an adminstrative determination is to (a)revoke security clearances for anyone who’s violated that clearance, and (b)prevent future disclosures.
The fact is, Rove leaked classified information, but still has his clearance, because the White House has COVERED UP his responsibility by, among other things, not investigating it.
THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!
Waxman asking about Woodward’s access to classified info-WTF?
Answer: No info.
this is like too much good sex, I can’t take it…errr…stop…don’t…stop…don’t stop
ARGGHHH
Vicki-kins and her hubby Boris Badenov DiGenova spent most of the 1990s on cable TV telling God and everyone why Clinton’s trying to evade a badly-crafted perjury trap was a hanging offense.
Screw them both.
Now Waxman going to how O’Neill was instantly investigated. President having concerns about the media having data about pre-9/11 data saying an attack was imminent. Is it political? Critics? Go after. Allies, let ‘em slide.
YES HENRY.
merry Waxmas one and all!
Davis equating the retention leaks–as if those are in any way the same.
Oh, and we will be using the Boris-and-Natasha graphic when Vickie-kins comes up to talk, right?
Marksters @ 200 —
Thank you for clarifying that *huge* point. Will Waxman et al?
Outrage, indeed.
President has “absolute” authority to declassify at will. That turns my stomach.
they keep falling back on “no criminal finding” to excuse rove’s continued security clearance
a -president has a PRO ACTIVE responsibility to REMOVE anyone that even MIGHT have disclosed classified information, REGARDLESS of criminal findings
I wish someone in the congress would have pointed that out
Oh jesus–Davis just called Fitzgerald Fitzpatrick. What a fucking moron.
waxmas — yeah!
Perris–they’re trying to have it both ways.
a president DOES NOT have that authority
he MIGHT have the authority to declassify IN AN EXTREME EMERGENCY
is power to declassify is FAR from absolute
wow. Leonard was great there. hope there’s a transcript of this soon. he seemed to say that there was an obligation to report the “possible” disclosure by Rove/Libby/Armitage/Fleischer. Davis did not like that answer. TS!
Van Hollen: McClellan, before the DOJ criminal investigation, that they had no information of anybody being part of outing Plame.
Shouldn’t they have investigated it?
Knodell: Yes. You’re obligated.
Perris: I’m saying that saying it turns my stomach. The Executive Order does not say what they think it says. They’re just making it up as they go along.
these guys are permanent civil service. seems like Leonard is doing his job; Knodell not so much.
Had Knodell heard of any attempt to investigate, even office scuttlebutt? No.
ah. the SF312. (and every year they are reminded of their responsibilities).
new thread, everyone
haha. the 2006 ROVE SF312. should be still have one?
hahaha. candor? from Rove?
Now details about establishing Security Clearances. Hodes going after Rove still having a security clearance. Now hinting Rove may not be considered eligible about his right to keep it.
who signed off on Rove’s SF312?
Hodes is a pleasant surprise.
Had any question been raised if he needed to ask if Rove needed to keep his clearance. Will he do it? Will he get back to them? Leonard says yes. Libby does not have clearance, as of the day he resigned.
Norton addressing middle row of chart. (Can’t read it.) Wants to know if they have the need to know about any covert agent.
Leonard says he doesn’t know.
Norton: Does it depend on what they [his superiors] say? Can he think of any reason any of them would need to know?
Leonard still doesn’t know, doesn’t know the day-to-day.
Norton: So anybody could find out, day-to-day? OUCH
Leonard still doesn’t know.
Norton: Given Knodell’s testimony, you’re the fall guy.
ah, now I understand
Damn,
I’ve was in EPU land for long time last thread
lhp
ROFL
you’re in it again, lhp