Apparently, Victoria Toensing still wants to argue what the meaning of "covert" is.
But according to Gen Hayden, current head of the CIA, Valerie Plame Wilson was a covert CIA agent at the time that her name was published by Robert Novak. Rep. Henry Waxman read a prepared statement today — prepared with the express approval of the head of the CIA and reviewed therewith — that substantiated the fact that Valerie Plame Wilson was a covert CIA officer, working on classified WMD issues for the CIA and the national security fo the United States.
Valerie Plame Wilson was able to go into a little more detail in her own testimony today. If you missed Valerie Plame Wilson's testimony this morning, the wonderful folks at PoliticsTV have YouTube'd it so that we can all watch.
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Christy!!
Christy, you’re back. Hope you’re feeling better.
roots !
Hey guys… I’m trying to get in touch with Marcy… the yahoo address on her blog isn’t working. Is there another address for her?
It was amazing to hear Vicky claim that she knew for a fact that Plame wasn’t covert, just from her silly law, a law she apparently never bothered to read (probably because she was too busy kissing up to Goldwater at the time).
Good ol’ Victoria–I guess the wingnuts hve come to the conclusion that it DOES matter what the meaning of “is” is. She certainly wanted to argue it with Chairman Waxman. Think of all the time and ink we’ve wasted.
Charles
Waxman!
Christy, don’t you know that Toensing knows better than anyone, especially the head of the CIA, what goes on in the CIA?
And she certainly knows the law better than anyone, too.
But she can’t answer for Scott McClellan.
I smelled sulphur thru my TV during Vicki’s testimony.
sucking
kissingup toGoldwater at the time).Yep… she is definitely an arrogant right wing #@#$% and there is no doubt about it. Arrogant isn’t even the word, but I am not sure what it is.
Get a load of Snow’s latest Snow job:
White House backs off on Miers scenario By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 21 minutes ago
WASHINGTON – The White House on Friday backed off its earlier contention that then-White House Counsel Harriet Miers first raised the idea of firing U.S. attorneys — an act that led to a firestorm of criticism of Attorney General Alberto Gonzales.
It has been described as her idea but … I don’t want to try to vouch for origination,” said White House press secretary Tony Snow, who previously had asserted Miers was the person who came up with the idea. “At this juncture, people have hazy memories.”
Miers said it in the goddamn e-mail, you tool!
And the AP reporter is a toolette (a moist toolette) from reporting Snow lies without letting the reader know that they’re lies.
Hey Rove- if you want to redeem yourself-
Please disclose the identity of the the woman with the short brunette hair on screen left when Ms. Plame is speaking. She’s a knockout!
“well, they can call it covert in the halls of the agency, but THE STATUTE doesn’t think so”
Bull. Toestink wants to be judge and jury, and she wants to confine the discussion to what things mean under her great statute (you know, the one with NO TEETH).
Sorry. Reality doesn’t mesh too well with your little world, Vicky.
let’s hear it for the firedoglake mods!
[Mod Note; you’re welcome.]
how long til I can find out when the replay of Valerie’s testimony might be?
(having foolishly gone to work this morning).
Note to self: trying to work when there’s live-blogging going on just doesn’t work. Luckily, I developed the onset of a bit of a cold… heh. Cough.
WOOT that was great.
Note to Toenails;
Henry don’t like it when you lie to him.
Just sayin’.
BWAAAHAAAAHAAAAAA!
She was Covert bitchez…[/Shakespears Sister]
What is the point of writing a law to protect covert agents when, according to the author of the law, it will not protect agents that the head of the CIA says are in fact covert?
Yea mods!
we love you!
Christy! Jane! a day like this’ll make you feel better.
Plame today: “While I helped to manage and run secret worldwide operations against this WMD target from CIA headquarters in Washington, I also traveled to foreign countries on secret missions to find vital intelligence.”
End of Vicky, er, story.
And am I hallucinating or am I correct that Toensing declared that Plame was NOT covert long before the trial started?
Love the fact that Waxman spoke on the record that the only reason Toestink was there was due to a request by the Rethugs
Yes, the mods done good today! Many thanks to all for the effort. True patriots. Followed this all day at work and rejoined post commute. Excellent!
The replay is at the top of this thread in that YouTube clip courtesy of PoliticsTV.
Hmmmmm… cough, I think I caught it from you. Can’t wait to get home. Being in the MDT zone doesn’t help, either.
Vicki is really proud of that law that she wrote 30 years ago, the crowning achievement of her career.
The denial of reality is just breath-taking.
These people better hope there’s no such thing as karma.
Whose side was Zaid on? It wasn’t as clear as the second guest.
Jane,
It’s easy. To enforce the law, you just have to ask Victoria Toensing whether it’s been violated. Evidently, she’s the only one qualified to answer that question.
Why the hell would you want to protect spies overseas but not at home? Who would do that! It’s a stupid idea! Plus, just because something may not fit into a narrow interpretation of a narrow criminal law, doesn’t mean it is not in violation of an Executive Order, or that the person in violation should not have his/her security clearance and perhaps their job pulled.
When Vicki is the director of the CIA, then she can talk about who is and isn’t covert. Until then, she can shut up.
My toobz were tied during the hearing. Any one else with connectivity issues?
Drip Drip Drip. The floodgates are about to be opened despite all the right wing shills spinning themselves dizzy!
Tommy Yum, I’ve benn gigging solo for 20 years, take many deep breaths while your in the wings and it’ll be o.k. Break a leg, and remember, if you’re not appearing, you’re disappearing!!!!! Hang Tough, bro
Why the hell would you want to protect spies overseas but not at home?
The CIA ain’t supposed to operate in CONUS.
But just to make it abundantly clear, wouldn’t you love to see Waxman call Hayden to testify under oath, in public, that the official position of the CIA is that Valerie was covert?
Balrog @ 28,
Zaid is more of a civil libertarian. His specialty is representing current and former employees of the government against that government. A fair amount of that business has involved classified information cases, but he’s also involved in misuse of the polygraph, etc.
I would like to offer this song for Waxman and Co.’s reelection campaigns. H/t to TRex.
litigatormom says “PAUL”
He was my favorite Beatle, too.
Random thoughts
Toensing came off as partisan, arrogant, and lame. She arrogated to herself the definitive interpretation of a Congressional statute because she had helped draft it 30 years ago.
IANAL but the language of the law itself, remarks by Congress people in the Congressional Record at the time regarding their thoughts on it, and how it has been used since are what the Supreme Court considers in evaluating any cases that come before them based upon it. Toensing fits into none of these categories.
Moreover, Toensing’s interpretation of the law is to say the least idiosyncratic and conveniently lets Rove and the other White House leakers off the hook. Coincidence? I doubt it. Yet beyond this what is the point of a law to protect covert agents if, in fact, it does nothing of the kind? If the CIA says Plame is covert, not in some abstruse sense but in the ordinary commonly understood one, and the law does not cover her, then seriously what’s its point? Isn’t the lesson here that if Toensing’s interpretation is to be accepted she claims near authorship of one hell of an idiotic and ineffective bill? Either way it doesn’t look good for her. Was she stupid then or lying now?
Also as I said above, does anyone seriously question that Toensing would be giving this same “hairsplitting where there is no hair” testimony if Democrats had been responsible for the Plame leak? In the end, Toensing had a choice to defend either the national security concerns of our country or those of her political masters. It is clear which she chose.
Peterr I wholeheartedly agree, that would be a show for the ages!!!
The misleading comments of Victoria Toensing on the covert status issue are the perfect opening for the committee members to justify their oversight hearing. Waxman or his colleagues can say “Perhaps there is some strange mis-reading of the existing covert statutes which will allow stupidly negligent administration officials to leak the identities of undercover CIA agents. If so, then the Congress has to re-write the law to prevent such mis-readings from ever happening again. Good people can get killed by such by stupidly negligent officials.”
Definition of a stupidly negligent official: One who knows of a CIA agent but does not ask the CIA if it is OK to leak the agent’s name to the press.
Of course Victoria Toensing was at today’s hearing. She has always been a Party loyalist and has attempted to muddy the Plame investigation and Libby court proceedings. Undoubtebly she will be awarded the Medal of Freedom for her loyalty to the Party. Does anyone know if the Republican Party gives out cyanide capsules to their members in case of an emergency?
Super work here at FDL. The ‘tubes’ was clear all through the hearing. Many thanks.
Toensing and Knodell reeked of hubris.
Waxman, Cummings, Hodel, Holmes-Norton, and Van Holling opened up a big can of stink-off on ‘em.
Toensing perjured herself, IMHO. Waxman seemed to think that, too. And I thought Cummings was/is trying to set up the pins for allegations of criminal conspiracy w/r/t Knodell and the actions of the White House principles.
Vicki claimed that Plame was not covert according to law that she (Vicki) wrote thirty years ago, and not according to Plame (who presumably would know her own status at the CIA), and also not according to Admiral Haydn, who as head of CIA would presumably know who is and was a covert CIA officer.
But they come back, Raven. They can’t be in the field forever, or they’ll go into meltdown. So they go out, do part of their job, come back, fly a desk for a while, go back out, back and forth.
Of course, that doesn’t mean that the agent stops being covert, either side. Also, we have spies over there. Other countries have spies here–and they might learn about someone like Valerie. Such an agent can be hurt here, if she’s exposed, hence why her cover is protected here.
EPU’d to Ann In AZ.
Its from John Dean’s book Conservative Without Conscience. HIGHLY recommended.
(ps- I’m in AZ too. PHX).
Toestink is ghastly! On one hand the investigation wasn’t legitimate under the statute but it was legitimate enough for the WH not to investigate on its own because “there was an on-going investigation.” Is that your testimony Ms. Toesuck?
new thread from Jane…
Wow. Waxman looks so meek, so mild, but he is certainly Master of the Smack Down! I have to admit I absolutely love the way he allowed Vicky darling to wind rope around her own neck before hanging her out to dry with a firm yank.
Thanks so much to Team FDL for feeding my addiction!
It sure was a Laugh-Out-Loud moment when Toensing still insisted Valerie was not covert.
Vicious Toenails is fair game.
EPU’d from last thread:
The relevant portions of the IIPA provide:
PLAME QUALIFIES.
PLAME QUALIFIES.
and
PLAME QUALIFIES.
Section 4[B], unlike 4[A], as a residency requirement
PLAME DOES NOT QUALIFY — BUT SHE DOES NOT NEED TO, BECAUSE SHE QUALIFIES UNDER SECTION 4[A]. That she doesn’t qualify under 4[B] is FRAKKIN’ IRRELEVANT.
The “resides outside the US” requirement under [B] applies to a specific kind of covert agent: someone who is an agent of or informant to foreign intel services or the FBI.
Section [A] requires only “service” outside the US, not residence.
Toestink has not only been exposed as a skanky liar, but a really really bad lawyer. Heh.
Disappointed they didn’t ask her about her connection to the Libby Defense Fund
Thread theorist says,
“Definition of a stupidly negligent official: One who knows of a CIA agent but does not ask the CIA if it is OK to leak the agent’s name to the press.”
I would add, “or who discloses a CIA agent’s identity [for purely political purposes] even when the CIA asks them not to do so.”
Val = hot!
Vic = not!
Vicky’s petulance got her everywhere, didn’t it?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Bravo fdl
and bravo to my dreamy new hero BIG HANK!
Am I the only person thinking ‘Treason?’
litigatormom@54
Thanks!
facts, facts, facts.
OT
just heard on NPR ari shapiro;
abu’s former cheif of staff kyle sampson has a new position,
in legislative section of environmental division
no kidding, they re=employed him
and thanks to all who live-blogged, i REALLY appreciated it…….no cable, on dial-up, a friend is taping it for me tonight, so i can see it later…….
now going back to catch up on comments
All the documents that were passed from the CIA to either the State Department or the OVP regarding the meeting where Plame introduced heer husband to the Niger briefing panel, or mentioned her status, were clearly marked Secret or Top Secret.
In fact, several had a special marking on them indicating the discussion of a COVERT OPERATION within them. This special designation is so SECRET that it is ITSELF CLASSIFIED and was redacted from the documents that were made public in the Libby Trial.
To think that the CIA didn’t undertake due caution in attempting to maintain the secrecy of Plame’s covert identity flies in the face of this evidence. The passage of this material to those Not-In-The-Need-To-Know (Nitnik’s) that resulted in the leaks occurred at the OVP and WH level…not by the CIA.
Cheney, Libby, Armitage, Rove…all knew that this info was classified. Recall the latter said to Cooper “I’ve already said too much”…and implied that there was soon going to be a DECLASSIFICATION of Plame’s status with the CIA.
To make such a statement clearly indicates that Rove was well aware that Plame’s CIA relationship was classified. Libby attempted to conceal his leak by asking Miller to cite him as a “Former Hill Staffer”.
These folks KNEW! It’s disingenuous to think otherwise. If Plame was an overt employee of the CIA they simply could have gotten the CIA Public Info Office to provide that to the media. They wouldn’t have to act so clandestinely…esp. if Wilson’s trip were actually a boondoggle arranged by Valerie Plame.
But they knew if wasn’t and they knew that her job was classified (if not covert). They knew the sourcing for that information discussed covert missions and had the highest classification levels possible.
I haven’t seen this said anywhere, but you would normally want a high-level spy to have an office in the US. Otherwise their files, documentation, and other papers would be at an insecure foreign location. Even if they had an office in a friendly nation like France or England, the local spooks would always want to find out what was going on. Someplace like Egypt, Pakistan, etc., would be impossible.
Having a US base with a cover story also makes it easier for an undercover agent to justify comings and goings. It’s really hard to be convincing if you’re pretending to be a local or some kind of innocent expat.
In short, the fact that Plame had an office in the US does not necessarily diminish the undercover nature of her work at all.
Personal to the Toensing/deGenova family dog: Careful, baby. Mama’s on her way home, and she hasn’t had a great day.
In the meantime, I didn’t think anything could equal Verdict Day. I’ll probably need to be sedated for Rove’s testimony.
-S
LM at 54: Thank you.
Um, having worked for a non-intelligence agency with foreign operations (that’s Peace Corps, for those who might want to know), one does not have to reside outside the continental United States to serve outside the continental United States. It’s the concept of “Temporary Duty location” or TDY for short. I repeatedly was on TDY outside the US during my five year tenure as a Peace Corps employee, but I resided in Washington, DC.
Ms. Plame presumable would fall under the same criteria for service abroad.
Take that, Vicious Toe-suck!
Thanks litigatormom & montag from the previous thread (re: double high authoritarian types.) Guess I’ll have to buy John Dean’s book now. Actually two books. I’ve been wanting Worse than Watergate, too. By the time I’m done, I’ll be broke and Amazon will have all my money.
Litigatormom @ 54 –
That post of yours would be worth sending directly to Waxman and other members of the committee.
I understand they didn’t want to get into the nitty gritty of legal interpretation with Toensing on the stand, but her clear misinterpretation of the law is important.
I’m sure every single covert agent sits behind a desk at some point. I doubt any, including Ms. Plame, would describe it as a desk job. BTW, where did that come from? Who testified to that? Who testified Plame had a desk job? No one. That’s pure GOP spin crapola. Blood from ears almost up to my waist now.
that horrid woman was the most combative, argumentative, obstructionist, bullying, querulous, petty, irritable and irritating person. I wanted to slap her! Did I mention annoying and irritating?
Damn, what a childish piece of work.
I love Waxman,
He just let her put her foot in her mouth and BAM!
ligatormom at 54: You nailed it!
In fact clause 4(b), which deals with SOURCES actually enforces the distinction between a SOURCE and an EMPLOYEE and OFFICER of the CIA.
It’s clear that the law was written WITH the knowledge and INTENT that CIA OFFICERS AND AGENTS be given BROADER protections than “sources” residing abroad.
Plame, being covered under 4a was COVERT at the time of exposure even under the law.
Where Fitz ran into his roadblock came under the need to establish INTENT and KNOWLEDGE of he status by the leakers. Quite simply, Libby’s perjury and obstruction played a not small part in his capability to investigate those aspects of the law.
The law…as (supposed) written by Toensing…is flawed in THOSE RESPECTS! It fails to prevent a conspiracy of perjurors from concealing their intent and knowledge…and allows a “daisy chain of disclosures” (a whispering campaign) to expose agents and operations without meaningful checks.
But the issue of her COVERT STATUS is a closed case…she WAS!
The NIE with her name and every other document with her name was marked N/F – not for foreign dissemination which is code for “this is classified, only folks with security clearance to know, can know.” Markings ignored by people who knew what they meant.
Vicki just can’t imagine that the CIA would assign NOC officers to anything other than full time residences abroad. The world has changed, Vicki, and if someone is supervising multiple employees and sources in multiple places, it makes sense for them to have reason to travel in and out of those areas.
We now fly in jets. We have the Google. We have the Internets. Barry Goldwater would have loved it. And he would have adjusted to the new realities of a post Cold War world. Vicki, you remind me of Beaver Cleaver’s fussy neighbor.
Seems like someone should tell Toesning that the reason she has a job and the reason that judges exist is because reasonable people may differ on interpretations of various laws. She may have participated in writing that law, but others have to apply it. Maybe she should have written a law that’s less ambiguous. Ya think.
Also the law says 4(A) OR 4(B). So either one is relevant but both are not needed to prosecute. Right?
No need to get to nitty gritty of the law. Toensing testified under oath as a lawyer and expert on the law, an expert witness requested by the minority party. Wax knows the law, he doesn’t need to argue with her and give her a chance to get out from under her statements. All he needs to do is insert in the record everything that contradicts Toensing and then ask her back to explain herself. If she sticks to her guns, she could be held in contempt and/orprosecuted for perjury. Given how much she supposedly knows about the law, she’d have a hard time arguing she was making good faith arguments to change or modify existing law and she held herself out as an expert, a person who should have known her interpretation of the law and the facts were wrong when she said them.
Right bellesouth
Knodel has a case of what Lincoln called the “slows” in his failure to investigate a serious security leak that happened years ago and one he is still not investigating. Doubt he’ll return to his office this afternoon, if ever. He showed so much pain from falling on his sword I almost felt sorry for the thug.
Guess it proves that Vicki can’t write worth a damn, negotiate ground rules that are beneficial to the United States and it’s citizens, or answer yes or no questions. This committee needs to re-write the law that has demonstrated ineffectiveness.
De-lurking to say that this is another in those wonderful moments when it is clear that this FDL community is changing the course of our history in many ways on many levels. I’ve just watched c-span and followed this incredible FDL discussion, all on dial-up!! My long departed Irish grandfather was obviously sending good St. Pat’s vibes through the toobz for me. I feel the luck of the Irish is with us — and with me for being able to just tag along. And Mabel (#58) you are NOT the only person thinking TREASON!!! Disclosing the identity of a spy in a time of war (their war, even) for personal political gain? Soldiers have been shot for much less…..
Hayduke says
March 16th, 2007 at 12:04 pm
EPU’d to Ann In AZ.
Its from John Dean’s book Conservative Without Conscience. HIGHLY recommended.
(ps- I’m in AZ too. PHX).
Hey, Hayduke, thanks for the information.
Well, that makes four of us that I know of that are from the Phoenix area (I’m in Glendale.) Katymine, and Mrs. K8 are also from our area.
It’d be great if we could all go somewhere sometime and have a mini-FDL conference. Mrs. K8 suggested the same the other night, but when I left her my e-mail address, she never said another word. My address can be found on Eli’s thread entitled “It’s Our Due” at #198.
Could we get our edit and quote function back now? I make too many mistakes to travel without an eraser.
Ann in AZ….Mrs. K8 and I met at a PDA meeting and I am chair of our local DFA group …next meeting April 4th.
I treasure my autographed copy of Conservatives without a Conscience…
# 54 litigatormom
“or has within the last five years served outside the United States”
I guess the legal issue is whether Valerie Plame’s travels outside the US within the past five years on intelligence matters (at a time when she was I believe admittedly stationed and resided INSIDE the US) constitutes “service” outside the US.
I fully agree that the 4b use of “resides” might imply that the meaning of “service” in 4a is something different than liuving outide the US, and that travel outside the US would suffice.
I just wonder whether there is any case law interpreting its meaning (doubtful)–very few cases under this law have ever been brought.
Also, do you think Fitz was concerned about this ambiguity–and that might be a reason no action on the underlying crime was brought?.
Finally, the criminal act under the statute requires:
Whoever, as a result of having authorized access to classified information, learns the identify of a covert agent and intentionally discloses any information identifying such covert agent to any individual not authorized to receive classified information, knowing that the information disclosed so identifies such covert agent and that the United States is taking affirmative measures to conceal such covert agent’s intelligence relationship to the United States, shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.”
Would it have been a defense under the Act to try to show the defendant did not know Plame was covert? Just musing about problems Fitz might have faced under a prosecution for violation of the IIPA.
robinhood @ 82
Paragraph 4 is an choice: Either she was working outside the US (without residign there), or she was residing outside the US. Since we know officially – now – that she was covert, it applies.
Vickie is dim. Also toast.
Well what does the head of the CIA know? Wolf Bliltzer said that “there are some who say Plame was NOT covert.”
Toensing was intentionally confusing the “resides” clause for non-CIA intel sources with the “serves” clause for CIA agents. The “serves” clause presumably emcompasses “secret missions overseas” (considering the statutes’ purpose). I thought the big bombshell today was Plame’s straightforward statement that she did “secret missions overseas” within 5 years from today, during the runup to the Iraq War (2002-2003).
“Would it have been a defense under the Act to try to show the defendant did not know Plame was covert?”
That’s the gist of this entire cover-up at this point, and Davis was setting it up all the while, with Toensing as a co-conspirator.
Doubtless they discussed her testimony before the hearing, she may have even provided Davis with the “proper” questions and tack.
See, the problem is, since the Libby trial, they can’t deny the actual outing, it is on public records they can’t classify as “top secret.”
So they have to claim ignorance of her covert status. Right now, that is their only out, but in many ways, it suggest strongly that there is still a very active, an ongoing cover-up that is getting deeper every day.
For everyone who thinks the Dems aren’t doing enough, ponder what the world would look like to us today if the R’s still held all the gavels.
Not to give Vickie any slack, but from a lawyers perspective, she is correct that the key issue is whether Valerie Plame was a “covert agent” as specifically defined under this narrowly drawn criminal statute.
That is one obstacle Fitzgerald certainly would have faced
It is not necessarily good enough that Haydn may characterize her as “covert” generally –that may have a differnt meaning under CIA lexicon. Haydn’s statement would help more if he said she was a “covert agent” as defined under the IIPA.
I agree knowledge of covert status would have been an important defense–did Cheny, Libby et.al know that Plame had “served” outside the US within the past 5 years etc. These are the type of details that would have made prosecution of the underlying crime difficult–but it is also why Fitzgerald characterized Libby’s lies as throwing sand in the face of the umpire and casting a cloud over the VP. As Fitz said–someimes the truth removes the cloud, sometimes it doesn’t, but you must have the truth the know. Fitz did not.
Robinhood,
She was correct that whether Valerie Plame was covert was an issue. She was wrong when she claimed, with certainty, that Plame was not covert because she hadn’t been “stationed overseas”.
That’s not what the law says, and she wouldn’t be in a position to know, regardless.
PJ @ 83,
That’s exactly right. The statute clearly applies if one of two cases applies to the person in question, and they’re listed in 4A and 4B, separated with an “or”.
I believe the term “serving” would reasonably be interpreted in terms of normal government service: one can go overseas on official assignments of either a permanent or temporary basis. In both cases, you’re “serving” overseas.
CSPAN will rebroadcast tonite:
House Oversight Cmte.
Hearing on Valerie Plame CIA Leak Case (8pm)
Robinhood @ 82,
That’s a good discussion, since the term “serving” doesn’t seem to be officially defined. However, the fact that the term “residing” is used in the second set of critieria implies that the first set was NOT intended to convey that someone would have to be stationed overseas on any sort of a permanent basis.
Could these leakers have simply not wanted to know Wilson’s status, and not done the due diligence Valerie spoke of today only so that they could claim later they didn’t know she was covert? Maybe I’ve watched too many movies but it seems to me there was a calculated recklessness all along (and I’m heartened to learn that reckless disclosure counts too). Their main goal was to intimidate other people of conscience in the Agency, and hell, if VPW was covert, oops! Bonus!
I don’t know whether they knew she was covert or not, but I know one thing – they did not care one wit about her status, what she did, or why she did it.
As Fitz said, she was a person to them, she was not an American serving her country – she was an argument. And they were as careless with her “as an argument” as they are with the truth every time they speak.
I don’t know whether they knew she was covert or not, but I know one thing – they did not care one wit about her status, what she did, or why she did it.
As Fitz said, she was not a person to them, she was not an American serving her country – she was an argument. And they were as careless with her “as an argument” as they are with the truth every time they speak.
I’m sorry that no one asked Toensing if she had ever commented about the damage we suffered when Brewster-Jennings was exposed. The answer is: for someone with superb media access, she said NOT ONE WORD.
Clinton’s bj? Reams of print and video. The B-J that mattered? Not one word. I think we know what secrets were important to Victoria.
P.S. — can we call her a “henna-haired hussy” yet?
Just heard that the Fox News is characterizing V. Plame as a “3rd rate analyst”.
Waxman is beyond cool. He certainly handed Toensing her head on a platter at the end of today’s inquiry. He’s double-checking EVERYTHING she says, even her age. I love you, Henry.
And I also loved the black woman who wouldn’t let Victoria rattle on about Barry Goldwater. Toensing usually controls whatever is going on by simply overwhelming those who question her. Not today, sister.
Valerie said she had been working during the run-up to the war in Iraq. So, I’d guess she meant more to them than her relationship to her husband. In fact, it’s simply amazing that here she was working on the WMD from one direction and her husband was in Niger on a one-off trip to check on the WMD from the other direction. It’s one of those amazing coincidences that just don’t happen. I’d speculate that it might’ve been set-up that way so they could use their argument against Joe to take her out of the picture — opening the way for the Irak War and Preznit Bunnypants to be a 2-termer.
All those lies and deaths to satisfy one man’s ego. Sigh.
Bluetoe,
Fox News has been exposed as a partisan Republican operation. They can’t even get a Presidential debate without running afoul of their own biases.
Anyone who takes them seriously at this point is partisan, too. If I were Plame, I’d be honored that they insulted me.
Ellen G at 85
Great observation “I don’t know whether they knew she was covert or not, but I know one thing – they did not care one wit about her status, what she did, or why she did it.” And you are right about Fitz characterization. BTW, such indifference, for legal purposes, could satisfy an intent standard.
Jonathan, there may be a differnce between a temporary assignment and a
“business trip” that Valerie Plame likely took overseas to further her intelligence work, in terms of whether she was “serving” overseas. I think its obviously a matter of interpretation, but to lawyers these ambiguities present problems and potential reversible error. Again, no slack to Victoria Toensing, but I assume it is correct she was involved in writing that law, and her interpretation that service means “stationed” is not totally implausile. Even if this nuance made a criminal prosecution somewhat problematic, it still does not excuse Cheney/Libby/Rove conduct–they clearly leaked “classified” information at a minimum, and as Ellen G observed, they did not care that they were ruining the undercover career of an important CIA analyst.
So when does the cuffed Rove frog march begin?
I only wish I could come to DC and watch it in person – it would be like the best parade ever!
Veritas 78: I love it! It’s perfect for a bumper sticker.
Brewster & Jennings —- the BJ that matters!
Then on the other side of the bumper
Impeachment – Not Just for BJs Anymore!