Evening, Pups. So in my previous post, I mentioned that I’d done a little Hard Time in Divinity School. Tonight, I’d like to talk a bit about religions that aren’t so well known or popular these days, but some of which are making a comeback.
Forgive me if this is a tad sloppy, this is “niece and nephew” weekend for me, and as they are both under three, they are rather insistent that I continue to play “flying tractor pirates” with them as I attempt to write this post.
Anyway, I love to discuss individual journeys down the path of religious and spiritual belief. It’s true: I’m an atheist, but that doesn’t mean I hate spirituality or religion. My “faith” is in the human spirit; I don’t find this inconsistent with atheism, as I define the human “spirit” as something that science will one day be able to quantify, and once understood, will eventually replace the need for belief in the human-created mythological superbeing-substitute. Simply put, to me what people call “god” today is actually the limitless potential of the human intellect and creative ability.
Also, I believe that the universe is filled with unending wonder, more than enough to inspire a sense of awe and amazement in people and sentient beings, for all time. When I contemplate the range of human ability, and contextualize that within an endless, boundless universe, I don’t have any need at all for an ancient myth that informs my understanding of reality. There is so much to learn, to know, to appreciate- why limit myself to those questions that concerned a bunch of ancient tent dwellers without the simplest understanding of science? Science and what it has uncovered itself is awesome, and I grok why some fundies call it a “false religion.”
But still, there is much to appreciate when it comes to the mythology with which humanity has long concerned itself. One essential question that has consumed me for no small amount of time: the endless and eternal battle between the male and female elements of the divine.
Academic books and papers on this topic, of which I have read many, are quite boring. It’s a shame, but then again that is the Academe. So let me offer you some links via the eminently more accessible world of fiction and substandard “serious” writing. If you’re a Great Goddess fan in this age, there are two people you have to thank for your understanding of what that means. Bachofen and Gimbutas.
Both have been discredited in academic circles, for reasons that I more or less accept. But that doesn’t mean their work lacks value. The heart of the question: was there ever a time when goddess worship had a different value than it does today, and if so, what does that mean to patriarchal religions of today? Let’s back up for a minute and unpack that.
You are probably aware that “history” as we can understand it begins with the invention of writing. With writing, we can come closer to knowing what people of ancient times were thinking, where we can only guess for those periods of time before writing left a record. Writing began in the ancient Middle East, in Mesopotamia/Iraq, to be exact, and although it was later invented independently elsewhere, the “meme” of writing that spread from the cradle of civilization took hold in a way that has affected “history” ever since. The ancients understood, as our corporate masters do today: writing, and control of the written word, is Power.
It’s probably not a coincidence that the first writing was about…religion. Gods and mythology were everywhere in ancient writing, even those most early texts we have that are mostly about the accounting of sheep and grain. There is a lot of High Theorizing about this topic, but to me it’s pretty clear: the ancients understood that if you were to make something “permanent” by writing it (putting it onto a clay tablet), you had better be sure to give the immortals their due. So, from the earliest times of “civilization,” people understood that Someone was looking over their shoulders. And that Someone was a/some being(s) that Were Not to be Pissed Off.
Going before the invention of writing, we have all sorts of indications that people venerated superbeings that can be approximated with both sexes. Paleolithic “Venus” figures abound in the archaeological record, and to the modern eye, they are rather blunt and sexual. They have exaggerated hips and breasts, ubiquity in ancient sites, and there were giant shrines with female effigies. Many people theorize that in some way, the near universal Paleolithic veneration of the female form suggests that pre-literate humans worshipped the feminine ability to give birth. Without a clear understanding of how procreation works, I suppose that’s plausible. But I don’t buy it, because I think it’s a mistake to underestimate the intelligence of the ancient human. Simply, if they could breed cattle or sheep or goats, they “got” how sex and reproduction worked. The people who were making these figures were also husbanding and herding, so I don’t think a primitive need to venerate the female mystery is the reason behind these figurines.
Still, it’s an interesting question. The ancient world is chock full of more female-friendly mythology than is found in religion today. That, I no longer dispute or doubt. But still, even in today’s “feminist” reality, there are many who don’t want to look at the archaeological evidence and understand that the ancients had a different way of viewing gender and divinity. This is important to me, because as an atheist, there is little difference between basing policy upon an all-powerful Father god and an all-powerful Mother lifegiver goddess- neither should have any role in public governance. But it’s “ridiculous” to talk about the latter, where today, ~90% of the American population subscribes to one or another form of the former.
Here are some fun books that I recommend, which will expand your mind about these concepts.
Wraeththu. Evolution towards a third gender, inspired by a Goddess who gives birth to her lover/son/self and recreates that process in the evolution of humanity.
The Firebrand. What if Cassandra wasn’t really crazy? What if she was the pivotal figure between Old Goddesses and New Gods? What if we completely misread the ancient world, and the coming of the Greeks in it?
What is the dystopian conclusion of patriarchy? It could be like this. At the same time: how do women who are denied everything that could give them agency and independence find those things in themselves, in the face of horrible oppression? This book will change the way you think about the Fundies, I promise.
And finally, what would a matriarchal religion look like if the Goddess were a harsh, realistic and highly cynical figure so distant from human reality as to offer little more than the comfort of death? What kind of society would that create? Can science and religion ever become one, and seek to change humanity for the better by a process as brutal as is found in raw nature? Very few people, IMHO, grok the power of this book. But there is still a chance some will.
I have gobs to say about matriarchy and religion, but I’d like to hear your thoughts. It’s Friday night, and the Goddess has put Her hand on Her daughter, Valerie, who lays poised to slay the ogre of Republican/Authoritarian government and oligarchy. Goddess worshippers should rejoice, right alongside us atheists. As a side note: is it just me, or does it seem like the people who “blow the whistle” on the Rove Republicans are frequently women? Perhaps I’m wrong, and the Divine hand of the Goddess moves within us all still…
Update: I went to school with the author of this review of a grammar book, and if you’re looking for a true ancient Mystery, read this and begin to find out about “Emesal.”
Damn, girl. I am so proud of you. Good job.
Update Update: I will get to this later. Come join the fun.
Related posts:
- Live Blogging Ted Kennedy’s Funeral
- Late Night Pre Halloween Special: Wanna Get Scared? Contemplate What the Hell Glenn Beck Could Say That His Cretin Fans WOULDN’T Believe
- Late Night: We Must Be Nearing Halloween If The King of the Undead Is Back in Town
- Late Night: Obama Scandalizes Conservatives, Inexplicably Refuses to Cock-Slap Random Foreigners During UN Appearance
- Sunday Late Night: I want my MDTV!





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The Golden Rule!
Thank you.
Political Cartoon Idea:
Boris and Natasha are sitting at home.
Valerie Plame is standing out front, with one hand raised to the door.
Boris says to Natasha: “Victoria, I think there might be a kNOCk at the door.”
Fitz!
Valerie!!
JUSTICE!!!
Hi Chi!
Excellent post, CD.
Valerie indeed! Never underestimate the power of a woman.
Jane, Christy and Valerie.
Goddesses all.
And don’t forget Marcy!
Pectopah @2, good one – send it to Toles!
I wonder how TRex is doing on his date tonight.
CD, you done dropped me off in the Marianas Trench of cognitive thought tonight…Too deep.
;>)
So I’ll play a video instead, and stand in the corner with my pointed cap at a jaunty angle.
Great writing, there
Oops, Marcy too.
But what about TRex and Pach? Can they be goddesses if they want?
Interesting post ChiDyke. It’s too bad that I am on my last legs and off to bed. ;o(
One quibble I have to make about it though, is that the first writing was not about religion but bookkeeping.
I’ve been reading an interesting book by Robert Logan called The Sixth Language which has gone through the history of information processing basically from the first written language, written numerals, etc to the Internet.
Oh gah, I have to stop I am too tired.
Well said ChiDy – that’s where I’m usually coming from, too. “Atheist” Carl Sagan suggested as much in his Cosmos series back in the 80’s (ahh… where have those good old PBS days gone? Ancient history, I guess, having absconded with David Brooks and the schnooks at CPB, it seems).
This is why I want to throw my arms up in exasperation when I hear wingers like O’Reilly say (actual O’Reilly quote from a couple years back): “I don’t believe in the Big Bang” – as if a) it were a matter of faith and not evidence, and b) such “belief” threatened any appreciation for the awe and mystery–or even potential sacrality–of the universe.
It’s related to what Phoenix Woman was alluding to when she referenced “meta-competence” in comments on the last thread.
Nice post, ChiDy.
And, I’d like to know just who started this Babylonian custom? Women can be such schmucks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishtar
“Ishtar’s sacred harlots belonged to an organized hierarchy, painstakingly recorded by the Babylonians. In addition to the activities of the sacred temple whores, there were sacramental sexual initiations as well. The Greek historian Herodotus (3 BC) tells us: ‘Babylonian custom compels every woman of the land once in her life to sit in the temple of love and have intercourse with some stranger…the men pass and make their choice. It matters not what will be the sum of money; the woman will never refuse, for that were a sin, the money by this act made sacred. After their intercourse she has made herself holy in the sight of the goddess and goes away to her home; and thereafter there is no bribe however great that will get her. So then the women that are tall and fair are soon free to depart, but the uncomely have long to wait because they cannot fulfill the law; for some of them remain for three years or four. There is a custom like this in some parts of Cyprus.”
I only got to listen to Ms. Plame’s testimony while at work but it was very impressive. My cubefarm neighbors were wondering why I was saying “Wow” so often. I’d certainly vote for her if she ever decided to seek elective office.
As an aside, I think one side-effect of the Bush presidency is that the term “presidential” doesn’t mean what it once did.
I think religion would be better served with godesses than with gods, just as the country is better served by godess Pelosi than god Bush.
Kucinich! Very powerful from today–this video features Dennis Kucinich asking Valerie Plame about links to the White House.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0K-pSNw_O4
Kucinich: Did you know what happened to Secretary O’Neil . . . was falsely accused . . . investigated . . .
In another instance . . . Gen. Shinsecki . . . dismissed
The case of Richard Foster . . . told he would be fired if he told the truth . . . about drug benefits
These . . . seem to be part of a larger pattern . . .
brownanserve @ 16
She is moving to NM, so maybe she can run for Domenici’s seat! Or Heather Wilson’s (Wilson vs Wilson)
alison- all my love to you! for this:
But what about TRex and Pach? Can they be goddesses if they want?
there’s another way of asking that question:
can an all powerful, all knowing god, play a “real” game with its own creation? think about that for a minute. if the answer is “no,” why is there creation at all?
bionic, sleep well. still:
One quibble I have to make about it though, is that the first writing was not about religion but bookkeeping.
i’ve read the earliest writing. literally, in the originial languages. translated them. you are not wrong: they are “bookkeeping.” (which is one of the very few words in english which has double letters three times in a row [oo-kk-ee])
but the point i’m making is: why then, if these records were all about # sheep and # goats, did each being with dingir? for those who don’t know, that means, “god, i recognize you, i know you’re reading this text, i honor you. now i pray this count of sheep is accurate, and that you strike down those who falisfy my count?”
that, my friend, is the question. also: why did that question get addressed to a god or goddess, and not vice versa? does having a penis/womb mean you can count better?
I grew up in a home of different faiths and with aquaintances of many different faiths and varying degrees of their beliefs. My parents taught us of the different faiths (still do) and to never, ever exclude any of them from our thought.
All faiths struck me a long time ago as similar in many ways. The holidays are in synch– almost all of them. There is not much difference at all and so many are linked to the harvests and the planting, etc. Yet, many would like there to be a bright line between their faiths, as in a major superiority dance and being the chosen.
I much prefer not to dabble in the communal aspect of religion and that venue of “fellowship” that some find so reinforcing. I like to instead have it live inside me– however I choose to “believe”.
Finally, people often use their faiths in wicked, warring ways.
It’s not the religions; it’s the folks who twist and contort and seek the language that divides all of us, of all faiths/spiritualities.
(PS– loved Kucinich today, mm.
He’s a good man– his “faith” is in the department of Peace; how cool is that?)
Darkblack! That was an excellent video!
I am interested in both poetry and ‘cultural anthropology’ and was intrigued by Robert Grave’s ‘The White Goddess’ and currently I am reading (along with poetry by James Tate and Sam Shepard’s account of traveling with Dylan’s ‘Rolling Thunder Revue’ in the 70s) The Great Cosmic Mother: Rediscovering the Religion of the Earth by Monica Sjoo & Barbara Mor. So I look forward to tomorrow morning’s cup of coffee and your post above.
“Ishtar’s sacred harlots belonged to an organized hierarchy, painstakingly recorded by the Babylonians. In addition to the activities of the sacred temple whores, there were sacramental sexual initiations as well. The Greek historian Herodotus (3 BC) tells us:
folks, i’m here to tell you. herodotus = bunk.
the short version: he was a…well, to put it kindly, an “armchair anthopologist.” the kind of guy who heard second and from second hand of kingdoms ancient and foreign, and who came to the table with his own prejudices. not that any of us are free of that, but think “bernard lewis.”
herodotus was the Original Western Imperialist White Guy making fun of Those Funny Brown People Who worship a different god. his whole point was to make greek men, who knew most of what they understood had been developed and critiqued elsewhere by non-greeks, feel important.
bottom line: like a bush republican, herodotus just made shit up. of whole cloth.
there is a long, complicated explaination of the “hieroldules” of babylon. i won’t get into it now, it’s too late. but think of it this way: if all you knew of sex workers today came from dobson, passed down to you thru six languages and three religions over two thousand years, would you trust it? prolly not.
so take good ole H with a grain of salt. *I* speak sumerian (the ritual language of babylon) better than he did. nuff said.
Hey, Chicago Dyke,
You never know when this subject – early matriarchal societies – will come up. The dearth of spiritual books by women changed in the 19th century. My favorite spiritual book, the Kybalion, is speculated to have been written by three women at the beginning of the 20th century:
Other names frequently mentioned in connection with The Kybalion are Harriet Case (Paul Foster Case’s wife at the time), Ann Davies (who succeeded Paul Foster Case as head of B.O.T.A.), Mabel Collins (a prominant Theosophical writer), and Claude Brogdon (a well-known stage magician).
Whether or not written by women, the descriptions of what God might be and how we might act upon that are purely trans-sexual.
Speaking of sexual roles, was it males or females who put an end to development of the zigguret culture at firedoglake?
Even the mundane nature of totalling domestic stock in a pasture needs soul
;>)
ET, it was the live blog of the Waxman hearing. The quote button will be back I have been assured.
Off topic, but, just wanted to mention I wrote something up about the 60 Minutes segment on Daniel Tammet (who has Asperger’s Syndrome with savant abilities) and my own memories of coming to understand our son’s Asperger’s.
Let’s see. Female whistleblowers.
Bunnatine Greenhouse
Sibel Edmonds
Karen Kwiatkowski
…
I would postulate, as did Heidegger, that the concept of “history” begins in some degree with the spoken word. As such, it would seem reasonable that his concept of hermeneutics was first employed to bring the divine to the campfire as the poetry and thought expressed by shamen in religious observance. Then, no doubt, they got around to creating symbolism and written word to fill up the rest of the Golden Bough volumes; but I tend to think that gods first came to humans through the original shaman rap. That’s right, I said it. The concept of god came from cavemen doin’ the dozens around the fire.
Try this:
God is what happens. Divinity is what people do in response.
the kuchinich/plame video: glorious
The concept of god came from cavemen doin’ the dozens around the fire.
Or was it the concept of goddess?
If I missed it, I apologize. The frieze you are using I have always seen as this as the male god Mithras, popular with lower-ranking Roman soldiers.
http://agonist.org/don/2007031…..tal_damage
There goes my ergot poisoning theory…Drat!
;>)
btw in 2001 I stood in St.Peter’s Square watching the tourist/pilgrims straggle through; you know, nuns from the Phillipines, the faithful from Peoria, etc.etc..etc…
and boy did it strike me that that place was cold and dead. Like the int. hq of a cola company or some such.
but the kicker? we missed the Sistine Chapel by an hour!!!
Having assisted my wife through two doctor-less pregnancies and home-births, and then the infant years, I’m convinced that if there is a “higher power,” it’s female. The emotional strength I’ve seen from her is mind-boggling, and even though I consider myself very strong and disciplined emotionally, I’m a baby compared to her.
Our male-dominated society teaches us boys to be tough and manly (whatever the hell that means!), and this often leads very condescending opinions towards women in adulthood. This is a very sad and disturbing aspect of American society for me.
Instead of men making jokes about a woman President, with her finger on the nuclear button during “that time” of the month, being a dangerous thing, we should be celebrating the female spirit.
I’ve always thought women would be the best Presidents, Generals, etc. Most women, with or without children, can see pictures of blood-stained babies in foreign lands from American bombs, or hungry children here in America, and think this has to stop. At the same time, there is no more fierce protector than a mother protecting her child, hence making a woman the ultimate leader of the Dept of DEFENSE.
Hope this makes sense, since the aforementioned kids have got me totally sleep-deprived, but thanks for the excellent post!
Chicago Dyke,
I announced earlier that I was going to post the comments I had culled from FreeRepublic’s freeper live log of Friday’s Waxman hearing before today was over. I’m putting some up in memory of this important day. The hearing saw some vindication of the truth for Valerie Plame and government workers who were intimidated by the actions against Plame.
Today’s the 4th anniversary of Rachel Corrie’s death. I think she sought justice too, but like thousands of young people from whatever background in the Middle East, she was denied justice.
Freeper comment gallery, part 1:
There is a huge difference in the Dems treatment of Valerie Plame and of Terri Schiavo — both from Huntingdon Valley, PA, both born 1963, both married to liars who gave false testimony.
I love this Congressman from Georgia, Lynn Westmoreland
He is giving the good ol’ boy easy drawl impression while asking really sharp questions!!
Did Plame actually take the oath, or was it a promise to tell the truth to Waxman. Role it back and watch, compare it to the normal oath — It’s hilarious.
Victoria Toensing will clear that up in her testimony. She wrote the law.
You know what time she’ll be up?
Maybe B. O’Reilly will get the body language gal on this. Would take up the whole hour!
In his opening comments, Tom Davis said he was very reluctant to participate in this farce (paraphrased).
The really bad thing is that at this hearing she can pretty much say whatever the hell she wants to say because, since the Libby trial, the White House is too scared to fire back with the truth.
Sucks.
These people should be ashamed of themselves..the questions were obviously scripted, and given her in advance…
.the questions were obviously scripted, and given her in advance…
and rehearsed. I noticed a while ago, before I had to mute this for my mental health, that one congressman got confused and VPW had to coach him on his question: “Do you mean…” and he parroted her words as he “clarified” his question.
She’s not that dopey or unattractive. She is however a total left wing democrat who intends to have a position in Hilary’s administration. And I swear to you IF I were on that committee I’d say it to her. But they won’t.
WHERE THE HELL ARE THE GOP REPRESENTATIVES!!!!!
Why are the Rats asking all the questions?
The Reps are boycotting the hearing. That is why it is mostly Dems are asking most of the questions.
Here is Micrososmos, my favorite ’spiritual’ book (it does at least bring in the biological concept of Gaia hypothesis) and I had alway assumed that the author, Lynn Margulis, was female. But watching Lynn Westmoreland today makes me wonder. I hope she is female because Westmoreland is questionably human.
I’d love to get RevDeb in on this… very late back east, though…
Great topic, piece CD!
in honour of Rachel Corrie…
I’ll amend it to the concept of ‘divine.’ It’s easier to rhyme!
Hey ChiDy!
I don’t even know what in the fuck you are talking about.
But any friend of FDL and TRex is a friend of mine!
Then, no doubt, they got around to creating symbolism and written word to fill up the rest of the Golden Bough volumes;
frazier: another hack.
i don’t mean to be all elitist on folks, especially since my own akkadian and assyrian are weak these days from lack of use, but i get pissy about the “armchair” generation.
let me put it in a modern form. once, not so long ago, “great” tracts were written about “primitive” peoples, still living (and dying) in the face of Modernist Imperial oppression. those “Primitive” peoples didn’t venerate a monotheistic god, they didn’t “wear clothesl,” they were “inscrutable.” why were they described that way?
plainly: because a bunch of rich, old, white guys at oxford and in germany etc., decided they were “not civilized.” those same rich, mostly old, mostly white guys wrote a bunch of books, and everyone knows them now. frazier, etc, never bothered to learn even 10% of the languages of the peoples upon which he presumed to “explain” to all us “civilized” people. “look, this is what their primitive belief really means” he said. and for decades, smart people have just accepted that he must’ve been right- it’s not like people are going to take the time to figure out the remaining ancient and non-Western languages and traditions themselves. no, let’s let some white guy with tenure at some fancy school speak for them, and we’ll “trust him.”
same dif today: who here speaks any one of the dozens of languages of afghanistan? no one? right, didn’t think so. but somehow, people here feel qualified to speak about “why the war is/is not going well” and of why the taliban is or is not popular, depending on your political orientation. i could drop a scary list of all the “smart” people who presume to explain to you the strange and odd ways of the darkies neoliberalism seeks to control, and you’d be shocked to learn how few of them have, like, actually been to those places or speak their native tongues or have read, in the original, their sacred texts.
as a former philologist, i condemn my own field. for i know just how much imperialism informs it, and racism.
(waving to balrog) how’s the skiing?
Friday Night Alternative Belief –
Bases of Tantra Sadhana
BUY THIS BOOK —
If you like it, buy more — and give them away . . .
during the vietnam war a general (american, white) informed us that the ‘orientals’ (or did he say ‘asians?’) did not feel or experience grief as deeply as ‘we’ do.
so i guess its okay to bomb and burn the living bejesus out of them
“The future is female.” And it will be a better world.
oops. i should have said ‘a general (white, american, male) said _____________
Hi Suzanne!
Well I’ll be honest. I had a great time, but threw out my back lifting miniature Balrogs onto chairlifts.
That is a common problem for Balrogs.
That, and being fascist trolls.
Thanks for inquiring!
Obivously, we’re talking generalities here, since….well, you know…there’s Hillary.
I just basically have come to hate religion. Look what the Islamic radicals have come to. Look at the American religious right. (Seen particularly clearly in “Borat”.) Look at the Terri Shaivo nonsense. How about the freakin’ revivalist-can’t remember his name-gay prostitute/crack example of religious fraud. It’s all well below what an ordinarily educated person should accept.
I do have good friends who find comfort in their religion, but I just don’t get it.
Heya ChiDy, some fascinating stuff going on here. Of all things it made me think of (you non-TV watchers are going to have to trust me on this) the GEICO commercials with the caveman. There’s one in the series where the Main Caveman is being interviewed in a typical cable format on a 3-way splitscreen, interviewer and Snide Opponent and him. Snide Opponent (blonde woman) says “Well, you folks just arent’ too smart, are you?” or words to that effect.
Caveman musters his dignity and calmly says “Yeah, we just discovered fire, created agriculture, domesticated animals and created all the building blocks of civilization. Real bunch of dummies we must be.”
SO comes back with some crushing snide comment and she and Interviewer laugh as Caveman rolls his eyes until he falls backwards nearly off his chair. End.
Beginnings of things fascinate me, I suppose because we never know when we’re doing them what the result will be: success, failure, changing the course of human existence or forgotten before the end of the week. The people who made those “Venus” figures may just have been admiring/attempting to control/trying to fucking figure out women, real ones, girls next door as it were, with no thought whatever at the time of mysticism or imaginary invisible Big Females In The Sky or any such thing. Those interpretations came very very very much later by people who tried to fit them into a concept of Early Religion which, as you note, we have no documentation for whatever.
And Herotodus can bite my shiny metal ass, as it were. I consider him the Tom Friedman of his era, prone to believing, or at least writing down, any load of hooey he picked up from the local oxcart drivers which he could then recount to the credulous citizenry back home in exchange for credit at the local taverna. Pfooey on his accounts of “temple harlots”, a term which in and of itself suggests to me he was trying to fit a custom he didn’t understand into terms he, or at least his audience, was familiar with.
/rant.
Enjoyed this greatly. Be sure to keep us back home appraised of your schedule over here. Or crosspost…a shame to let writing of such quality languish on a little-read site like this one. :)
(snark! Snark, really. I swear. Never type with a cat draped over one arm and under the other, while drinking cheap box wine. Leads to overstatement and misunderstandingations.)
Angie Says!!
Who is Kno…. who knows…???
bonkers @ 52….well, um, yes….point taken…
Balrog,
Are you lurking? New baby? I know you’re busy, but I’m wondering!
LS– I am spooked by that man in that suit!
He’s a real nowhere man,
sitting in his nowhere land.
This is bugging me no end.
Is he a NOC– deep undercover and classified?
Or did they find him in Gold’s Gym?
LS: Knodell —> no tell.
where is punaise when we need him??
All the better to instruct them in the counterrevolutionary spirit…The basic building block, nepotism, followed by a rising sense of entitlement as they ascend the powdery slopes in a paid-for ride.
;>)
seems like it’s male ideology/religion/patriarchal power that has gotten us into our environmental/nuclear/warmongering/injustice mess/
christianity/judaism/islam: where’s the love people where’s the love? oh sorry. you have to burn out your neighbour? oh okay I’ll come back later.
ET–Re: Freepers.
It’s always amusing to read their remarks–in isolation, of course–it’s simply too much to immerse one’s self in what’s going on over there.
It’s also interesting that the comments aren’t that much different in tone than here. There’s always a certain amount of that sort of cheerleading that occurs.
What’s interesting are the remarks about Toensing. They were impressed with how she talked back to Waxman, reiterating what Toensing said–it was her law and she knows it.
But, the record and the law itself shows that she doesn’t know it completely, that she was describing one clause of the definition of covert agent when there are actually two, conjoined by “or,” and that can be easily checked by them as anyone. From that, one can only assume that what was most important to them was that she talked back sharply to Waxman with some appearance of truth. That it wasn’t the truth–and was in reality a distortion of the law to obscure the truth–isn’t part of the equation.
And, therein lies the major difference between their world and ours.
ET,
I don’t know Rachel Corrie. I wasn’t around at the time she was known here. Who was she? I respect you enough to want to know.
CD,
as a former philologist, i condemn my own field. for i know just how much imperialism informs it, and racism.
What’s your take on (Friedrich) Max Muller? I read some of his sacred text translations when I was a lot younger. I’ve never read one of his original philology books, though
yeah yeah and those same pissants today have moved over to other metaphysical pursuits under the guise of science and are pulling the same crap, call themselves astrophysicists and astronomers. and those bastards are not even bothering to go to the horsehead nebula, but they write tomes about it. pricks!
Terry– go here:
http://www.rachelcorrie.org/
and here
http://www.democracynow.org/ar…..22/1435259
and then you may realize how distorted her beauty became by power.
by NY and Nicola.
Let’s see. Female whistleblowers.
Bunnatine Greenhouse
Sibel Edmonds
Karen Kwiatkowski
Add Teresa Chambers to that list. Her situation may not seem as “big a deal” as the others (she was chief of the US Park Police, first woman to hold the post after a sterling career in police work) who was just shitcanned for having the temerity to tell a WaPo reporter that her troopers were being fucked over by the Interior Department.
She’s still fighting to get her job back, or at least her name cleared. I think when the time comes to investigate, fumigate and straighten out the cesspool that is Interior (Jack Abramoff’s base of operations, keep in mind–and the footdraggers in the case of the hundreds of billions of $ in Indian trust funds that mysteriously can’t be accounted for, much less paid), anyway, I think she’d be a good person to help with the straightening out of things.
Terry Olson:
Thanks for asking; Mother’s Day is the date.
That said, it’s tough for a Dirty Hippie to surrender his freedom. On the other hand, it’s the 4th kid, so what am I whining about?
Cheers!
“folks, i’m here to tell you. herodotus = bunk”
Agreed. Thucydites is far superior.
“frying tractor pilates?”
I’ve recently found comfort in a lovely cathedral here, because it’s empty except for older ladies praying. The sight and smell of the candles is very touching. The sound of the prayers and beads is comforting. I join in, and there is peace.
“frying tractor pilates?”
Guaranteed to give you gas….
Terry,
Rachel Corrie was a student at Evergreen College in Washington state. Her senior year’s practicum was to go to Rafah in the Gaza Strip, to form a sister city relationship between Rafah, the second largest city in Gaza, and Olympia, WA. While there, she began to volunteer for the International Solidarity Movement, walking kids to school past rough checkpoints, preventing ongoing ancient well demolitions, and protect houses from bulldozing. She was killed four years ago, failing to perform the last of those tasks.
At the end of the 2003 school year, her parents received her degree for her at Evergreen. A play about her is being presented in Seattle, beginning this weekend.
Here is a video on Rachel Corrie–
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa_WFZyN2l8
and here is her interview–
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..mp;search=
This is a drive by before bed. It will such a treat to read this with coffee and a fresh brain in the am. Thanks for posting this chicago dyke. It’s a great topic. I’m a huge fan of mythology, folklore, etc.
To me, my spirituality is connected to intuition, which is a feminine energy. I think the pre-historic tribes knew this. They didn’t have any definitive source of knowledge to get them by. Nor did they have organized religions that imposed an order or structure on them for control.
They got the influence of the moon, they knew it was a feminine energy, most likely from the correlation with menstrual cycles, and the power to create life by giving birth I’m sure inspired awe.
They tuned into their senses, and followed the lead that it provided them.
john swifty- please expand. i’m not speaking of the metaphysical, when i critique the armchair quarterbacks. the physical sciences of the universe are something i respect. that includes the babylonians, as well as the modern post-einsteinians. and sagans. i’m tired and worn out from babyblogging. your point is?
Why you Godless heathen! (joking)
I had no idea you were so deep, CD. Personally, I am deeply conflicted by religion and seek to find my answers internally. The study of religion often coincides with the struggle for power, much as we are seeing between the Shia and Sunni split that occured after the death of their prophet. One side felt the church elders should lead, while the others felt it should be the progeny of the prophet.
So we fight.
Unfortunately I have become so cynical towards agendas, I do not trust any source whatsoever for the answers to spirituality. Therefore, these matters, for me, must be resoved internally and organized religion currently is failing miserably in winning this person as a convert.
DarkBlack:
Excellent advice. However, they appear to need no convincing. They love it.
All day lessons seem to be the answer!
Renee in Ohio,
I’m back and forth with the computer today but I did follow your links. Two people independently said to me this week that they thought my husband was mild aspbergers. Sort of startled me (not that I hadn’t thought it myself). He is the uber engineer type. When we walked the Queen Charlotte Track last week, one of the days we ended up walking with three other men, all engineer types, who happily chattered together while I sweetly trailed behind, able to have my own world, only occasionally interupted by drifting words like “nitrates” “percolation fields” etc engineering etc.
We used to joke that we should tattoo people’s social security numbers on their foreheads as when we would drive up to houses, he would say, “now who are these people and how do we know them?” “This is my sister’s house and your nephew is John and your nieces are Sally and Jessie.”
But he can call and ask me to look on page 43 of a 300 page document and go to item 532.14 and check whether he was remembering a number accurately. He is always accurate about numbers.
Another female whistle blower – Marla Ruzicka. She was attempting to create a useful data base of Iraqi civilian casualties, when she was killed April 16, 2005, in Baghdad.
“frying tractor pilates?”
i spent about six hours today with Black Ken and Weebles of the Medieval period battling the stuffed flying eagle muppet. speaking the language of the less-than-three year olds.
Black Ken in the plastic chinese made dumptruck fighting with the fluffy eagle puppet, aided by unfalling weebles of foreign manufacture: it’s a special language, this i know now.
To the manor born.
;>)
That’s great, though.
How do you manage it on a ‘fascist troll’s’ salary, presupposing you are one, of course?
:)
g’nite.
bless Rachel Corrie and all those suffering and working towards health and peace and safety.
hoping to hear all good things from the march tomorrow and from Ramsey Clark– will be participating in our little vigil for 3 nights starting tomorrow.
Point is all thought starts somewhere. Aristotle had some really shitty ideas about optics; but it gave Newton something to chew on. I don’t throw out Aristotle’s contribution because he screwed some stuff up; I just consider the source and the time frame and move on.
Edward Teller @ 73: Rachel Corrie was trying to prevent ancient well demolitions?
So the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians what Saddam did to the Kurds: Cement up their springs.
i spent about six hours today with Black Ken and Weebles of the Medieval period battling the stuffed flying eagle muppet. speaking the language of the less-than-three year olds.
Black Ken in the plastic chinese made dumptruck fighting with the fluffy eagle puppet, aided by unfalling weebles of foreign manufacture: it’s a special language, this i know now.
Try working in the best representatives for male idoltry in there somewhere.
Beavis and Butthead.
I had no idea you were so deep, CD.
if you would understand this post: we are all “so deep.” but thanks.
Personally, I am deeply conflicted by religion and seek to find my answers internally. The study of religion often coincides with the struggle for power, much as we are seeing between the Shia and Sunni split that occured after the death of their prophet. One side felt the church elders should lead, while the others felt it should be the progeny of the prophet.
religion *is* the language of power. understand that, and you understand half “the problem.” we here on the freethinking intertubes are the minority. ask yourself why that is, and why that has been totally true for thousands of years, and you begin to understand why an atheist like me views religion to be The Enemy. on the order, indeed, beyond and greater than, Rove, Bush or any of the puppets who lead the unthinking ranks that oppress us today.
“the rich succeed because they convince (with relgion) one half of the poor to kill the other half of the poor, for them.”
I can understand how access to water makes people unreasonable.
the Goddess has put Her hand on Her daughter, Valerie, who lays poised to slay the ogre of Republican/Authoritarian government and oligarchy.
DEADEYE DICK: “I am Cheney the WitchLord King, and no man can defeat me!”
PRINCESS VALERIE THE SHIELDMAIDEN: “I am no man!”
THWACK!!
(with apologies to JRRT, Peter Jackson, Fran Walsh, Philippa Boyens, and Miranda Otto.)
Twit now, prick before.
-
*falls out of her chair laughing*
So the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians what Saddam did to the Kurds: Cement up their springs.
And what the US has done to the Afghans.
Cost is a huge issue for skiing.
I was able to justify skiing when I was in college at Boulder by eliminating needless expenses. Like tuition.
Somehow I just can’t deny my kids the rush of gravity freaking. It is a blast.
Point is all thought starts somewhere. Aristotle had some really shitty ideas about optics; but it gave Newton something to chew on. I don’t throw out Aristotle’s contribution because he screwed some stuff up; I just consider the source and the time frame and move on.
that’s a ‘hole nuther post, my friend. that chained in a cave crap, along with what the A-man did to merge the twin evils of western imperialism with (you’ll all hate me now) the ideology of the Slave, gack. how i hate it.
and newton: three words for you. “died a virgin.” ahem.
Actually, it was Plato that had the whole chained in a cave meme. He would have luuuved Sir Issac!
Sorry, C-D, religion is the bane of human existence.
That’s my story and I’m stickin’ to it. I can think for myself. I don’t need a book or a deity or some guy in a black dress with a collar to tell me how to be moral or how to think.
Wow. Overtime work on “covert”:
http://corner.nationalreview.c…..NkOTgyYzE=
Go with what you know, I guess.
So the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians what Saddam did to the Kurds: Cement up their springs.
Yes. The IDF has been using water as a weapon for virtually all the time they’ve occupied the territories.
Every time the Palestinians lose flow from a well and try to dig it deeper, the IDF or the police chase them off or simply drop a bomb on it. There was one in the extreme south of Gaza, near the border, that border guards simply shot at every municipal crew that tried to get near it.
In the West Bank, the water is simply diverted to the illegal settlements and/or turned off except for a few days a month in the summer. It’s a growing business in the Palestinian areas to deal in black-market municipal plumbing items, because if someone can locate a water main, they’ll find a collar and flange somewhere, dig up the pipe at night and weld the flange on, add a valve and get a little water for a while. Then the police discover it, turn off the water and tear up the pipe.
It’s a very catch-as-catch-can existence there these days.
montaq @ 98: i thought I was reasonably informed but didn’t know how water was being denied.
Khoda hafez, y’all! (see ya)
Actually, it was Plato that had the whole chained in a cave meme
sigh. do i have to lay out for you where it is the A-man gets his creds? please tell me you know the ideological geneology of plato thru the neo-aristotilians. hint: aristotle- in between.
there is no idea, or ideology, which is “singular.” grok that, and we can go somewhere.
pups, i must retire.
if you like/hate me, come by http://www.correntewire.com and have some fun. they only let me off the leash here once in a while. i’ll come by after SuperFlying with the slave labor produced PlasticToy PyramidRobot when my adorable, First Black President niece/nephew are done with me tomorrow.
sleep well, lakers.
Thanks for the girl powered post, chicago dyke. Excellent. Nighty night.
g’nite, cd. sleep well
one last hit:
Sorry, C-D, religion is the bane of human existence.
That’s my story and I’m stickin’ to it. I can think for myself. I don’t need a book or a deity or some guy in a black dress with a collar to tell me how to be moral or how to think.
um, did you even read my post???
please, pass whatever you are smoking. i’m sleepy, but it would be nice to float off to where ever you are before i shut down.
tryggth @
97
Sheesh. What do you expect though from the Corner? Byron York is pulling the same crap as Tom Maguire: Claiming that Plame denied having any “role” or any “involvement” in the agency’s decision to send Wilson, when she detailed her role and simply denied that she recommended him or had the authority to send him. And of course they omit the full scope of her testimony in that matter.
Losers.
Frazier a hack? Good grief, that’s insular. And marvelously contemptuous of the complexity of surviving ancient beliefs.
Speaking of emesal, UPenn has the most spectacular Sumerian language website, I half-faint with joy every time I’m there:
UPenn Sumerian Dictionary
It’s kicky to discover how many Bible stories and other myths are based on Sumerian puns. Like the words for “woman” and “salt.” Then there’s “pes” which means “fig” among other fun things. You can look up Sumerian, emesal, Akkadian, or English.
Excellent post!!! Thank you!! More like this, please!! It has brought me out of the FDL lurker closet.
I soon will start my own div. school hard time; I hope to someday approach the level of knowledge and eloquence of ChiDy.
Hey CD,
Like the new spot. There you go with that woman god thing again.
Work it girl,
X
domma, welcome out of the lurker closet. am looking forward to more comments from you. jump on in – the water’s fine.
(see #39 for explanation)
freeper comment gallery, part 2:
Westmoreland has questioned also..he is trying his best again now..Is your husband a Dem or Repbu? Now how about youi Ms Wilson..She says she is
Why do I have a feeling Westmorland is about to expose something new???
Williams wrote: She’s not that dopey or unattractive
They say it is easier for an attractive person to get away with a lie, than one who is not as attractive. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder anyway. I think Valerie Plame looks like an evil witch, who has had her hair died blond, her teeth capped, her face waxed , and looks dumb.
What a stupid, libelous statement against former President Bush. Is that you, Maxine Waters? Or is it you, Louis Farakhan??
agreed.Westmorland is lawyerly laying down a track
of Gotcha me thinks.
Westmoreland is smooth. He got on the record the fact that he was given a list of questions that “could not be asked.” Can we start using the expression Stalinist!
The Reps are boycotting the hearing.
Thanks for that info. I hadn’t been aware of it. Do you know the specific reason they are doing so?
A question I wish someone would ask.
Mrs. Plame, prior to the Niger incident, did you or your husband receive any money or other compensation from the government of Iraq or any agent acting on behalf of the government of Iraq?
This makes me want to vomit when I hear Waxman LIE THROUGH HIS TEETH about Wilson’s NY Times piece. Will any “R” refute this nonsense and ask why Wilson LIED in either that piece or his Senate hearing???!
WHY are the Republicans boycotting???
Is it because they want to throw Bush, Cheney and Rove under the bus also??
“I think Valerie Plame looks like an evil witch, who has had her hair died blond, her teeth capped, her face waxed , and looks dumb.”
Lee’sGhost wrote: Yeah, but other than that, she’s hot.
So is Hell!
Can we get a transcript of this blonde idiot’s testimony?
In essence she is a fading wannabe vamp who is angling for a job in Hilary’s administration, and is loving her day in the sun. Honey, you don’t pose in your PJ’s when you are miss serious secret agent.
I watched all the testimony, and then the news on it… it was so much easier to see the media making shit up and ignoring key items (that they have avoiding ensuring the public know) after seeing some of the fact (under oath).
I think the moment when Waxman closed the panel with Plame with words of truth from a chair of authority was a great moment (truth is not Demcratic or Republican). You could see the tears well-up in a person who was actually outed from doing WMD work at the CIA —-by her own governement—.
Oh – and so sad that when Toensing came on after that and (likely – we shall see) lied, and surely attempted to evade questions and answer with (as she was called on it) such narrow constraints and definitions that she attempted to not commit pergury, while being dishonest.
The Republican questioners were also fairly pathetic.
It also shows how great it is that these things will now be on the record. And in fact the Repblicans are lying and making up their version of “truthiness”. It also shows how they got away with this stuff in doing nothing for the last 6 years by controlling what gets done, who gets called to speak, what they can ask, and how they write information up. I loved that these panels are going to disclose the lies and half-truths of these Republican Senate/House panels from the last few years.
As for McCain and those like him – get a friggin clue… you think America is going to elect a president from the WORST Senate in living voters history? The Republican Senate from 2000 – 2006 is not a stain on a blue dress…it is a stain on the glory of the flag. (Though I am sure some of the crap that Regan started that lead to Enron and what we have today must have come pretty close – but they served that with ice cream and the working man thought it tasted good so that was under the radar).
As for the idiot Republican Senators questioning they take it a step beyond and in the days of High Def that idiot is waving around the “do not ask” question list.
Nice, maybe there is a name/secret on there that someone with a 20 megapixel camera 15 feet away can capture.
I was shocked the White House never investigated the leak; I mean, never even pretended to investigate the link.
This shows me that George Bush himself knew just what happened when it happened.
::blinks sleepily:: I want to comment intelligently and discuss one of my favorite subjects, but I’m too braindead. ::yawn:: I need to read FDL sooner in the evening.
Freeper comment gallery, part 3:
She was probably what the Russians called a “Swallow.” And it ain’t got nothin’ to do with birds!
Isaw about 30 seconds of her testimony w/o sound, which is as it should be.
When are they going to be prosecuted for helping terrorists in Iraq? When will our ace Justice Department get going?
These questions are no longer about Plame being a CIA agent
Saturday Night Live will have a field day with this hearing and how they ask the same damn question over and over and over and over
Victoria Toensing is the only reason this farce is still on my TV.
Everyone needs to be aware that these two seemingly ignorant men testifying are CAREER employees…they have NO reason to be loyal to the White House…
Hodes reminds me of every negative connotation of a lawyer that exists.
I hope Victoria can help us out here.
We can only pray that Victoria Toesning has the nerve to call out these people for the liars they are.
If you could see me now, you would know that is exactly what I am doing.
The Admin has not fought back with classified intell, which is the problem, the Dems in the CIA and on intell committees do leak classified intell to reporters routinely, and the admin has to declassify to fight back, which is really rare.
Finally! Toensing says the two words we’ve been waiting for: Richard Armitage!
And I bet no Democrats ask her a single question!
Toensing for President. She is really giving it to them. Bringing out the ugliness and rudeness of Waxman & Co. too!
Lordy, I do, too! Wonder if she would run for president?!?
Pig fatwa on Waxman.
Someone should slap the hell out of Henry Waxman! He should not be allowed to testify! He’s testifying and refusing to allow Victoria to answer!
Fitzfong will never willingly subject himself to any scrutiny on Plamegate because his own charlatanism will be too fully exposed. The only way he’d come in front of such a body would be under subpoena and the ‘Rats certainly don’t want to rock his boat. Plame was happy to “testify” under the fraudulent show-trial atmosphere of a cabal of Demagogues framing the WH and determining what questions and issues are off-limits. She was assured of protection by the Demagogues from needing to answer any tough questions, and they spoon-fed her their own questions so that she could be sure to arrive with cooked answers.
WHAT A FARCE!!
jeez louise, et. thanks for doing that so i didn’t have to.
Hilarious Irony Alert!
We all heard Valerie Plame say this today:
And anybody who has been paying close attention and who is familiar with DoughBob LoadPants and the knuckleheads at NRO’s Corner know that was a response to DoughBob, who wrote this in 2003:
So how do the hopelessly self-unaware Cornerites react to this obvious reference to their shwag analysis? Cliff May:
Boneheads. They are still trying to parse everything for some sort of technical acquittal and they don’t even know they’re being called out as dolts.
Ed*ard Teller @
110
It is HI-LARIOUS to me how afraid of Hillary these people are. Where in the world did they get an idea that Valerie is “angling for a job in Hilary’s administration”????? If they are so obsessed with her, at least learn how to spell her name.
And if they could read a calendar, they’d learn when the photos came out – after her cover was already blown.
Suzanne @ 116
do I get to build the first zig? awesome!
I had to throw a good pair of hipboots away when I got through.
damn – I missed a Zig Zed by a Zip.
yes, et – you were the first to notice almost an hour after they were restored. was wondering who would notice and when.
retracting… jacqrat got the zig zed! sorry, jacqrat…. no slight intended.
Ed*ard Teller @ 120
So sorry, I interrupted. I had to quote those idiots. Thanks for the laughs, Sir.
chicago dyke @
101
I’m not such a stranger in that strange land, I grok that Socrates informed Plato informed Aristotle informed Alexander and consequently I imagine this is where you conclude that Western philosophy necessarily arrives at imperialistic results, since Alexander conquered nearly everything except the West Nile Virus.
The Cave deal is still Plato’s though, regardless of a notion of accreditation through association. The master would take credit for the pupil’s work but the pupil wouldn’t take credit for the master’s. Sigh, that’s just the way I understand the philosophical school concept to work.
Besides, the A-man was busy on his own shit. He was writing Physics and when he got done with that he wrote the book that came after, a really good Greek semantical joke called Metaphysics which I know you have professed a degree of respect for:
The A-man abides.
hey jacqrat. how’s the other side of the hill?
thanks, ChicagoDyke.
Freeper comment gallery, last part:
“SHE WAS A COVERT AGENT”.
Stand your ground, girl.
Plame committed perjury, Plame committed perjury!!
I demand an immediate Grand Jury investigation!!!
They are Stalinists. They only want the party line.
VT just mentioned that it was David Corn that first reported in the news that she worked for the CIA
This is all smelling very foul .. like they’re setting up to use the DOJ state atty firings, getting Rats in their place, and readying indictments against these alleged Executive Order/WH leakers, etc. to go after Rove, Cheney, maybe even Toensing, et al.. destroy all Bushies.
What an ASSHOLE; he put in the record that her statements might not be true………what an ASSHOLE.
Great conservative minds think alike! We may have a real winner here. I’d love to see her debate Hillary! LOL.
A caller to Rush just said it looks like Armitage is a covert agent — everyone’s doing all they can to protect his identity! LOL!
A caller to Rush just said it looks like Armitage is a covert agent — everyone’s doing all they can to protect his identity! LOL!
A caller to Rush just said it looks like Armitage is a covert agent — everyone’s doing all they can to protect his identity! LOL!
Val looked slightly “druggy,” today.
is it my imagination or is this case alot like leaking Plame’s sleep number?
The only hope is if the main stream reporters are now confused
Anybody recording this? I was looking for a video clip of when Plame was outed as a democrat
Dont forget to be identified she would have had to have been a covert agent in the first place. I didnt know she was outed as a dyke though thats news to me.
She was never in danger, never covert, was never outed.
“The only hope is if the main stream reporters are now confused”
The Dems will send them press releases. What the heck, the overwhelming majority of them are Dems, anyway
Valarie……….how was the botox?
This is what happens when Democrats run Congress. Republicans and conservatives should stop playing, because it’s certain the Democrats aren’t.
Why is Congress wasting our time with Valerie Plame’s natterings, when we have Khalid Sheikh Mohammed’s testament as to how serious Al Qaeda is about killing us?
Suzanne @ 125
Finally cooling down. I am about to go watch Maher. IT just amazes me how hard the freepers are clinging to their beliefs, after the trial and this hearing. It’s crystal clear what Cheney and Rove did to start the war so they could recoup Halliburton losses and repay their oil baron friends.
angie @
30
Sherron Watkins.
Colleen Rowley.
Cynthia Cooper.
Well, that was great.
What delightful people.
I don’t know if Keith thought I was cute or not, but I had a marvelous time.
TRex @ 129
Dinner with the B-52s! Awesome.
Awesome, TRex. I’ve been thinking about you.
TREX!!!
TRex, details, please. Living this one vicariously through you since I’ll never get anywhere near a rock star with my luck.
CD wrote a spectacularly interesting post, but I still miss the TRex brand of late night snark.
All I know is that I can’t wait for the Bill Maher/Jerry Seinfeld/Larry David documentary to come out, called “A Spiritual Journey.”
One of Maher’s cleverest comments, imho, was the part about how the religious lore reflects the culture (and is a weapon in culture wars). In Islam (and yes, this is going to be totally unPC), a bartering culture, they came up with a number like “72 virgins”. (his schtick on this is poignant).
The same striving for airtight lore is evident in the “I dare you to prove a negative” aspects attributed to Jesus’ life — immaculate conception to resurrection. These aspects just cry out the lines of an ever popular Jesus Camp tune, “Our God Reigns.”
It all does seem to me to be “collusion to delusion” – when the paradigm is the simplistic product of “strength in numbers” multiplied times “might makes right”.
We have the same forced-loyalty dynamics going on now (can’t compromise numbers, yanno), multiplied by technology, which is the only thing that seems to have evolved (well that, and we freethinkers ; )
I appreciate the post by Renee in Ohio, regarding Asperger’s, which is completely on topic, and related to the Male-Female God/Goddess dialectic ChiDy cited. In my experience as a counselor and consultant (micro and macro), much of these dynamics seem completely Hard Wired. And while I think traditionally male-female attributes can be debunked as belonging on either side of the spectrum (i.e., Kali/Ares are destructive fem/male archetypes), it almost seems like a more constructive discourse would look at communication styles. In this regard, Autism truly Speaks.
Just as psychology is now arriving at the notion that “meanness” is hardwired, our collective is becoming aware of how we’ve allowed the OCD/perseverating/angry types dictate the discourse and have their way for far too long (out of empathy, of course). We’ve a marketplace that medicates gentler-reflective types to be more like the mean ones, and speedy, too (no time to reflect — FOCUS FOCUS).
One can only hope that as we understand the full scope of what we are genetically inclined to do (nepotism is ingrained, just ask ants and bees), that we will understand better the fragile balance and interplay of “altruism” and self-preservation.
The biggest difference I’ve seen so far, is where each person draws the line of who is considered to be “family.”
peace out, FirePups. got love
TRex is gonna be all blais on us now… Glad you got to go!
Hi TRex,
Hope you had a splendid evening. Missed you, large and gentle’saur.
Ed*ard Teller @ 126
It ought to be increasingly apparent that this bunch, much as the apolitical in the country, will only see what’s happening when it profoundly affects their own lives (although I suspect that a fair number of them would go meekly to abject poverty or into the internment camps without much complaint–and with a belief that it was for the greater good).
The remainder will be signing up for jobs running those camps….
Perish the thought that science will be able to quantify human spirit. It won’t happen because human spirit is not computable. If it were so, then once science has it quantified, just plug in the parameters and computers become human.
Starbuck @
139
But Starbuck, why didn’t you tell us you’re a Cylon?!
TRex,
You deserve a great time, all work and no play…
But you could never be dull!
BTW, I’m not any longer a person with no Kultur. You are absolutely right, it’s a great pen. Thank you very much for the recommendation.
Okay, so My Night With the B-52’s:
It was a routine pub-crawl. It was Keith, Fred, Kate, and a bunch of producer/engineer types, my brother, and me. We started out at a bar called The Globe and went on to the famous 40 Watt club where there was a band called Ca Va was playing. Then we went to two other bars, the last of which was the gay bar.
Town is totally dead because it’s spring break. It was a nice evening. Several of the studio guys are British and they were hilarious.
For some reason, British people seem to find me hilarious, which I consider to be a compliment of the highest order.
Keith and I talked alone a couple of times, but he has a hell of a poker face. I can’t tell if he was just being nice or genuinely thinks I’m a babe.
Fred is a hoot. Kate is angelic and soft-spoken. She’s teeny! And Keith is…Keith. Tall, handsome, deep-voiced, marvelously dressed.
Sigh.
He has really big hands.
Aren’t they great?
What color(s) did you get?
(sigh) that sounds wonderful, TRex.
Want to know more above Victoria Toensing? Check out this:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/reports…..toria.html
Starbuck @ 139
Actually, I believe that humans are computers. Or I should say the are components in a much larger computer. But the computer is so vast and complex that it is computationally irreducible; we may approach duplicating a rather tiny portion of it as we create AI using human’s fuzzy logic, but as we do so we become a more complex component of the computer in which we are already a component. In reproducing our intelligence, we create our own upgrade.
Besides, we are already trans-human; we take for granted that many of us will have a non-human component to repair our capacity (ex. hip or knee replacement); within the next ten years I think we will see exo-augmentation of our capacity as well.
But no matter the extension — you are right that spirit cannot be quantified or calculated, just as my computer cannot understand that which operates the keyboard.
TRex @ 143
I got a marbled green one for myself, it’s gorgeous. I bought a transparent blue one for my brother. I’ll of course want another one, the transparent-transparent one looks like fun.
I inked it with Waterman blue (cartridge). I think I’ll get a converter for it too.
Big Hands – does he play the piano? Rachmaninov, Scriabin, romantic stuff?
Rayne, are you a Singularitarian?
Geez, ET,
I’m going to go back and read you at 126, but for crying out loud…where do these people come from?
I have one of those. Fine or medium?
I have one of those, too.
Waterman cartridges hold a LOT of ink. But for really fun colors, you’re going to need a converter.
I dunno. I know he plays guitar and writes the lyrics.
What a great day.
Dover — nope. I believe there already is a greater-than-human intelligence, if that’s the crux of Singularitarianism.
We’re part of it whenever we are connected to the internet or other network. But already have another network, I just don’t believe that we are ready to understand and make use of it. Some might refer to it as spirit; I personally believe we are at some level one organism, one mind.
I believe that every person is an angel and an animal. We’re brains floating in these flesh machines. Sometimes when I’m smoking too much, not eating, and otherwise abusing my body, I try to remind myself that my body is my animal, just like Gus and Juan Carlos and I should take care of it with the same diligence.
Or maybe this is all just me.
TRex, How old are you if you don’t mind?
Actually, you are Gus and Juan and they are you and we are all together.
coo-coo-ca-choo…
Heh.
It amazes me that we are made of stuff that is mostly not there; the lack of real substance, the enormity of gaps between the mass of which we are created, it’s just so vaporous. Theoretically, you can drive a truck through me; I’m more gaps between electrons than anything else. If we are merely widely spaced gaps between bits of energy in various states, really, what the hell are we? Even our cells are nothing more than recording devices, hardware and wetware that replicate ancient programs between those massive gaps in space; what the hell is this, what are we?
Where does this cat end and TRex begin? Isn’t that really just an illusion?
TRex @ 150
Fine, which suits my writing style (too many closed loops)
Guitar is good, does he have a nice voice? what range? did he sing to you?
fucking funny
Rayne @ 151
I had a reader on my (very much covered in cobwebs) blog suggest a book to me that was very interesting. Co-written by Carl Sagan’s son, Dorion, and Eric Schneider (no relation to Fred, TRex — as far as I know at least), the book is called Into the Cool.
You have to be pretty science-nerdy to get into it, but if you are, it’s an interesting book. The basic thesis is that life is essentially a thermodynamic process, not unlike, in some respects, a storm or weather system.
From the main…
BINGO!
Give that girl a cigar!
Terry Olson @ 149
Places that elect people like Don Young and Lynn Westmoreland.
Terry Olson @ 153
I’m just asking because I’m 54 and it’s so interesting to see how and what is important to us in different stages of life.
Terry Olson @ 153
I will turn 39 in May.
newtonusr @ 156
I actually think about that all the time. Before I went out tonight, Juan C and I were laying on the couch and I pulled up my shirt so I could feel his fur against my belly.
Ahhhh.
Ed*ard Teller @ 159
“Val looked druggy”. Please.
chicago dyke @
104
You’re an “atheist,” yet you approve of religion.
I do NOT.
Religion and spirituality, in all forms, is evil and should be purged from the human condition.
Dover Bitch @ 157
Interesting. But after reading a rather large chunk of work by Dennett, Chalmers, Wilbur, I can’t subscribe to the thermodynamic approach. Read some Bell, Bohm and it gets too difficult to say life is merely a chemical reaction.
I’ll have to check it out, though, maybe there’s something in there that will fit like a piece in a puzzle.
GPB, do you have to always be so confrontational? I understand the need to stand up for what one believes in, but why is it that for you to be right, the other person always has to be wrong?
It makes it unpleasant to discuss things with you. Whenever I post music I really like, you inevitably come along and explain to me that blues guitar is the only good music and the music I like is shite.
And that ain’t right.
Perhaps you mean it more gently than it comes across in print, but on line your words are all we have to go by.
Rayne @ 165
Check out the site and see what you think. I had never explored that line of thought before, so it was interesting to me.
What I find absolutely fascinating is the idea of phase entanglement and the freaky truth that two particles arbitrarily far apart can be connected in ways that make it appear they are able to share information instantaneously.
It occurs to me that the elementary particles in each of us can become entangled with counterparts in others, and in this way, we can remain connected to people even when they are not with us.
OK… gotta crash in a few. Can’t believe I woke up in time to catch the entire hearing today.
Hey TRex, check out my comment 117 (if you would).
I’m all in as well.
Good night, everone.
Sleep tight.
Don’t let the wingnuts bite.
Guitar_Playing_Bastard @ 164
Here’s a theory I have about religion:
Humans are roughly parallel to the computers they build.
Genes = hardware
Knowledge (memes) = software
But there is more than just a chip and harddrive, and some software on top of it. There is machine-level programming, BIOS and operating system, too, that allows the hardware and software to communicate and to do so not in a closed system but across a network of similar entities.
Religion is something above machine-level, perhaps a hybrid between the BIOS and operating system. Like the proprietary and open source software we know so well, different BIOS/OS offer greater success than others, allow a different area of differentiation besides that offered in hardware.
Is any BIOS or OS “evil”? You might think so if they f*cking crash on you in the middle of something important on a regular basis, or if it simply doesn’t work. But can a BIOS/OS be “good”? Highly subjective, probably within certain limitations.
I’ve decided I’m bigger and badder than the software I came bundled with at birth, so I’m slowly wiping my drive and upgrading to a different BIOS/OS. ;-)
Dover Bitch @ 168
Ah, yes, the Cornerites.
Shorter Cliff May:
I’m so stupid. T.
http://www.uoregon.edu/~smuell…..t/trex.jpg
Heh. A last dash of snark before bed.
Niters, TRex.
TRex @ 171
So busy being idiots they’re scrutinizing something without realizing it’s a declaration of their idiocy.
Glad you had fun tonight. Catch you later.
Nite
I don’t like the designation – atheist. The term seems to be defined in terms of religious beliefs – as non-belief in what they believe. I do not have a good term for not believing someone else’s beliefs.
Christians are atheists regarding Norse Gods – no?
When someone asks me if I believe in GOD, I generally mention that it is unlikely that I believe what they do.
hpschd @
175
And that’s where the analogy of a BIOS or operating system comes in handy. It’s not that I don’t believe in anything at all, or that I don’t have values; I just express those same universal values through a different program.
I’m more like Linux in a Microsoft world.
Alright, enough for me. Stayed up late working on taxes and I think I’m finally wound down enough to go to sleep.
Niters, ‘Pups.
Rayne,
Your values are impeccable.
time for me to turn into a pumpkin myself. g’nite all.
Rayne @ 176
I like the analogy.
Sometimes I feel like Commodore GeoWorks
I’ve been taking this mind blowing course on Sacred Geometry and Coherent Emotion. It pretty much comes down to the idea that the the universe is made up of a single substance that’s called the unified field. The substance that makes up this field is called Love.
Now as Meher Baba implied, this unified field (Love) has nothing to Love but itself. So Love must imagine a Lover to Love.
This is the beginning of Fractal Geometry. Love is the end. Love imagines a Lover and animates it at the speed of light. z=z*z(plus)c.
So the trick of immortality is to bring the harmonic waves your consciousness in alignment with the waves of the primary, unified substance. Love.
Apply this globaly, and Humanity becomes pan dimensional.
I’ve wondered many times about music being a key to spirituality for some people, and about major and minor key music.
I’m thinking of the carol in a minor key, “O Come O Come Emmanuel.”
Is music a connector? Or an unlocker? or neither or both, i guess…
Good night all!
Margot.
Music is essential to the bliss process. Even the music found in silence.
hpschd @ 180
By that example, Shooter is HALO, or maybe POSTAL… I like it!
Margot @ 182
Interesting choice. The tune is a 12th century plainsong modal chant, 1st mode responsory.
Basically, it’s Gregorian Chant and neither major nor minor.
But it certainly is in a Church mode and goes deep into what moves us spiritually.
SubwaySerenade @ 183
bliss, or this….
I usually finish the night @ Jill’s place… JESUS FUCKING CHRIST – Harold Ford…
I’m glad he lost.
Ed*ard Teller @ 186
Hey, I’ve got an autographed copy of the score around somewhere (Peters Edition, 4′33″, $.50). I spent the day with Cage when he visited RPI way back in 1967.
newtonusr @
188
Oh my FUCKING doG…You’re right…the Music Row Democrats must be shitting themselves.
Guitar_Playing_Bastard @ 189
Hard to imagine Harold’s path to forgiveness now…
hpschd @ 188
that’s great. was he tempted to just put a long dash where his name should be?
I treasure his book _Notations_. I loan it out to students who only know Finale.
SubwaySerenade @
183
That’s something a few of us know instinctively and live it every moment of our lives. *grins*
I tried a few times to set up a prepared piano – often incurring the wrath of whoever looked after the piano. Lost those scores years ago.
Cage had a lot of interesting ideas, but little of his music gets played anymore.
HPSCHD is, of course. Cage’s abbreviation.
Congratulations, you’re actually a Pagan, whether you realize it or not.
Goddesses and Gods don’t live in clouds. Even the old Pagans knew that, at least the smart ones did. Ask Iamblichus.
When you sit at your computer and “Goddess Blogging” comes out, or anything that displays the craft of writing, THAT IS THE GOD(DESS). It’s Thoth or Minerva or Odin or whatever image that says, “WISDOM IN WORDS” to you. The names and images are just labels.
tryggth @
97
The NRO needs to STFU about all matters having to do with Valerie Plame. The Libby conviction drew neocon blood, and the fools think that if they slice the baloney finely enough, people won’t notice that they were dead wrong:
But all the facts anyone needs to render a definitive judgement are in the Wikipedia entry on “Valerie Plame”:
Emphasis added.
Christy, Jane, posters, & firepups everywhere -
“Blogs can top the presses” – http://www.latimes.com/news/na…..-headlines
Breaking my self-imposed rule to always read all comments before sending linkies to avoid duplication. The above is a *really truly* fair and balanced picture of blogs, focusing on Josh over at TPM. You’re gonna love it; sorta like a scoop of ice cream on top of an warm apple pie Friday.
Mornin’.
Happy St. Patrick’s Day!
Of course that’s every day for many of us here :)
Why, yes, I am wearing green from top to toe.
WaPo Makes Shit Up About Valerie Plame
At the very top of the front page, too.
They say “she savors her revenge” against the Bushies. They don’t substantiate that anywhere.
Details:
This morning’s WaPo has a pic of Plame at the very top of its front page this morning, next to its story on yesterday’s hearing.
The caption: “Valerie Plame strolls into the hearing room, the only sound the paparazzi’s shutters. For three years, she kept a public silence about the Bush Administration; now she savors her revenge. Washington Sketch, A2.”
Dana Milbank’s Washington Sketch piece gives no hint of a suggestion that Valerie Plame Wilson was seeking, let alone savoring, revenge.
The front-page editor was Making Shit Up.
I left an angry but civil message on WaPo Apologist Debbie Howell’s voicemail. 202-334-7582, for anyone who wants to join in.
Happy St. Patrick’s Day, pups! Here in Savannah it’s a HUGE deal. It’s guest columnists in the NYT today, Judith Warner and Rory Stewart:
http://mgpaquin.wordpress.com/
There’s coffee ready, and Irish Breakfast tea (of course!) and Irish soda bread fresh out of the oven. Help yourselves, and have a wonderful day.
[holds out green mug]
Thanks Marion!
Waccamaw, thanks for that link at 197. What a great way to start the weekend!
Marion in Savannah @ 202
Amen, sister! Just a small repayment for all your NYT linky work in the early a.m. How’s the weather down your way? Heavy rain yesterday morning blowing out the sat tv & making me very fearful of missing the hearing but let up in time. Lots of wingers on Washington Journal today slamming the testimony – talk about the deaf, dumb & blind ;-(
Joe Max @
194
Good morning to all early risers.
So agree w/you, Joe Max.
Also, I’m sure this was covered somewhere in the comments above, but the image @ top depicts Mithratic cult creation myth in which Mithras, um, a male, starts life on earth by slaying that bull. Mithras cult began in what’s now Iran, many followers in Roman Empire. Quite a few cults in ancient times centering on goddesses/female interceders w/the gods (Cybele, Persephone). Mithratic cult not one of ‘em, although it’s a great image…
I think you would be interested in the results of studies reported in this article:
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_…..020507.php
Following are first four paragrpahs of the article.
Women have played major role in history — from the start, authors assert
CHAMPAIGN, Ill. — Hold on to your bearskin hats and your macram snoods, readers: You are in for a wild verbal ride through your deep, deep past.
The authors of a new book have fashioned a 16-chapter prehistory theme park worthy of Disney, but in their confection, lame, even egregious, past assumptions about our past are hunted down and slain, and stars – in the form of womankind – are born.
The Invisible Sex: Uncovering the True Roles of Women in History” (Smithsonian Books/Collins) is a roller coaster ride through Homo sapiens’ unsteady past. No stone tool is left unturned to bring us up on what is – and what is not – probable about our long and miraculous journey.
The authors are archaeologists J.M. Adovasio, the founder and director of the Mercyhurst Archaeological Institute; Olga Soffer, a professor of anthropology at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign; and Jake Page, a freelance writer. Adovasio is an expert on perishable prehistoric artifacts; Soffer is an expert on the Paleolithic Period and peoples of the Old World.”
Juan Cole’s blog this a.m. targets Plame outing- Prof. Cole gets to heart of it (treasonable offense, impeachment) as per usual:
http://www.juancole.com
The conventional wisdom seems to be that to punish Joe Wilson for whistle blowing the White House went after his wife. IMHO, that’s backwards. I think it was Valerie they were after. She was a high-level manager in counter-proliferation. She knew they were making shit up, and they knew she knew they were making shit up. But they were smug in their knowledge that she couldn’t say anything. So she put her husband up to spilling the beans, which upset Cheney a whole bunch.
Waccamaw, it’s a tad cooler here than it was the last few days (48 now, probably up to the mid 60s or low 70s later) and sunny. We got the rain out of the way Wednesday night! I hear in New York they had to shovel snow off 5th Avenue for the parade. (I remember as a child going to one St. Pat’s parade in New York after it had snowed 19 inches the night before…)
This will probably be EPU’d but CNN is running w/the latest “be afraid, be very afraid of all the foreign nationals applying for jobs as school bus drivers.” UGH! Will be interesting to see how much more press this bright, shiny thing gets.
RT @
198
I hope this comment has legs.
i’m calling now.
Marion…..forgot to tell you -
Made a special run to the new Fresh Market Thursday…….heaven. Quite different from the ones I’ve been to in rehab stores; open layout w/very limited aisle format. Cooked some sauted French green beans & a beef/brocc stir-fry for a Dem neighbor down the street which turned out pretty tasty, if I do say so meself. ;-)
New thRedd.
Wigwam @ 206, that’s how I see it. Mrs. Wilson had much more real intelligence that disproved the WMD fable and was much more dangerous to the cabal. Then when Mr. Wilson had the audacity to question the war premise after his trip to Niger, it must have seemed the Wilsons together could decimate the 16 infamous words. Mrs. Wilson wasn’t supposed to talk, but what if she did? Cheney must assume everyone is as much a dick as he is. I confess I did not see any inkling of my theory in Mrs. Wilson’s testimony.
Also, I’m sure this was covered somewhere in the comments above, but the image @ top depicts Mithratic cult creation myth in which Mithras, um, a male, starts life on earth by slaying that bull. Mithras cult began in what’s now Iran, many followers in Roman Empire. Quite a few cults in ancient times centering on goddesses/female interceders w/the gods (Cybele, Persephone). Mithratic cult not one of ‘em, although it’s a great image…
yeah, i know that. but i was pressed for time and couldn’t find a suitable jpg to upload. i’m not so good with that whole images on blogs thing.
Frazier a hack? Good grief, that’s insular. And marvelously contemptuous of the complexity of surviving ancient beliefs.
Speaking of emesal, UPenn has the most spectacular Sumerian language website, I half-faint with joy every time I’m there:
frazier had a nice writing talent. but he spoke about world religions without actually being able to read most of the languages or speak those which weren’t written. i could do that about say, ancient chinese belief, based on english translations that were second hand accounts from modern chinese writers…but i’d probably get a lot wrong, factually. like frazier did.
i’ve been working with the UPenn online dictionary, the oxford dictionary, and the chicago dictionary, of sumerian, emesal and akkadian for over ten years. i know a lot of the authors. i’m very glad that they are online. sumerian is one of my languages.
mm @ 74
What Rachel said near the end of her interview, about “referring to it as a ‘cycle of violence’ disregards the imbalance of power in this situation…” was extremely insightful. I had only read of her a few times back then, from the MSM. I remember feeling the “what the hell are you DOING over there” contempt for this beautiful soul. It haunts me now that I understand that her brief life held more truth and honor than mine, and that she almost was barely a blip in my consciousness. Thank you, people here, for remembering her to those of us who found our outrage late.
squirrel hiller @
209
Thanks!
Here’s an image of today’s WaPo front page. (This link is only good for today, btw.) You can see the photo at the top of the page, but the caption underneath is unfortunately too blurry to read in the image, which is already at max resolution. (So you still can’t read it if you enlarge. I tried.)
You’re an “atheist,” yet you approve of religion.
I do NOT.
Religion and spirituality, in all forms, is evil and should be purged from the human condition.
guitar: i make a clear distinction between organized religion and mythology as literature and exercise in human creativity.
the former is a form of political and social control, masked in the inarguable claims about the supernatural. i oppose it, in all forms.
the latter is an interesting way to explore ideas, and a demonstration of the human potential which i venerate. i think of mythology this way: if we can dream it, we can do it. thus, i am consistent in my atheism, because i believe it will be humans who achieve what current discourse describes as “godhood.”
Chicago Dyke, btw, BEAUTIFUL post. I had a really hard day yesterday, and went for my “late night,” and the lack of snark, and gentle quest for meaning was actually what I needed. Thank you for joining as a poster.
CD, Fascinating post, thanks — you are part of a longstanding tradition, for women, in constructing your own spirituality… see:
Things Of The Spirit: Women Writers Constructing Spirituality (Paperback)
ed. by Christina K. Groover
This list of contents from FIND IN A LIBRARY (WorldCat)
http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/55149404?tab=details
Contents: The architectonics of desire : pageantry, procession, and protagonists in Teresa of Ávila’s Interior castle (1577) / Elizabeth J. Adams — Religious reconstruction of feminine spirituality : reading past the praise in Salve Deus Rex Judaeorum / Sue Matheson — “She is but enchanted” : Christianity and the occult in Lady Mary Worth’s Urania / Sheila T. Cavanagh — Reflections on the sacred : the mystical diaries of Jane Lead and Ann Bathurst / Avra Kouffman — Ritual and performance in Christina Rossetti’s “Goblin market” / Debra Cumberland — The mirroring of heaven and earth : female spirituality in Elizabeth Prentiss’s Stepping heavenward and Elizabeth Stuart Phelps’s The gates ajar / Rory Dicker — “Who has not found the heaven, below, will fail of it above” : Emily Dickinson’s spirituality / Roxanne Harde — “Nothing but spiritual development” : Mary Butts’s Ashe of rings, and, Scenes from the life of Cleopatra / Roslyn Reso Foy — Marvelous arithmetics : womanist spirituality in the poetry of Audre Lorde / Sharon Barnes — The spirit of a people : the politicization of spirituality in Julia Alvarez’s In the time of the butterflies, Ntozake Shange’s sassafrass, cypress & indigo, and Ana Castillo’s So far from God / Holly Blackford — Faces of the Virgin in Sandra Cisneros’s Woman Hollering Creek / Jacqueline Doyle — Beginnings are everything : the quest for origins in Linda Hogan’s Solar storms / Ellen L. Arnold — Nuala Ní Dhomhnaill and women’s sensual spirituality / Kimberly R. Myers.
One thought – the paleolithic Venus figures to which you refer I believe long pre-date systematic agriculture and animal husbandry – I don’t think domestication of horses and cattle had begun 30,000 to 20,000 years ago in Europe and Eurasia when at least some of those Venus figures were made. So I wouldn’t dismiss the notion that the peoples of those times worshipped in some way female reproductivity without knowing exactly how it happened.
chicago dyke @ 45
Coming back on Saturday for a bit. Totally EPUd I know but maybe someone will read this.
I am totally jealous that you can read these languages and I bow to your greater knowledge wrt my comment earlier.
I have an Iraqi friend who is Assyrian. I find it fascinating that there are people today who self identify with such an ancient country.
Anyway, according to him and several of my other Middle Eastern friends, most Assyrians are Christians (bet W didn’t know that).
He gave me this link to learn Assyrian if anyone is interested. This is modern Assyrian, but is an interesting read on the background.
And wrt this post, I sometimes think how much of our worldview is still coloured by the musings of 18th century European gentlemen, which they in their closeminededness couched as fact.
And much of our view of the Middle East is further coloured by a subset who called themselves Biblical scholars. I get so tired of reading about the past jigged up to fit the Bible rather than a telling based on what has actually been found.
And let’s all reference, when we have time, Robert Graves’ “The Greek Myths” & “The White Goddess.”
Pre-history, as inferenced through contemporary & later artifacts that seem to be religious icons, would dictate the existence of a completely matriarchal society in pre-historic times. Society began ruled by women, using a king or sometimes his tanist as the original straw man, one who was sacrificed prior to each change of season in a contest, ritual burning, chariot crash, poisoning, name it, to ensure the continuation of prosperity & the royal matriarchal line.
Myths, tales, artifacts, religious art in early historic times surely seem to point in that direction, according to Graves…
I found “The Chalice and the Blade” to be a very enjoyable book. It had the single best explanation of the Garden of Eden story I’ve ever read.
SubwaySerenade @ 181
May I just say ‘Whoa!’
note to freepers who need some new ideas:
Valerie Plame was a ‘taste-tester’ at Ben & Jerrys.
She smuggled psychedlic albums into Albania.
She invented the rocking horse.
there ya go!
Rayne @
146
You might be interested in what Roger Penrose, in “Shadows of the Mind” has to say about this, especially in what he sees needs to happen in order to get to the next level in computability. It’s quite rigorous.
geordie @
219
the venus figures show up in much later times as well, that was the period to which i referred.
susan @
15
chicago dyke @
24
This may be bogus Herotodus (!) but the Devadasi and similar Indian temples are absolutely verified as doing permanent temple brothels.
In the Middle East marrying first cousins is a very common custom (a first cousin is a first choice!) and recessive genetic disorders run rampant in small villages. (If you study a recessive disease, somewhere in Saudi is Your Village.) This practice would force genetic mixing.
As to strict matriarchy, some societies report that young men have little stake in society and women end up doing all the work. I got this from an article on a matriarchical society in Western China. Not ethnic Chinese (more properly, not Han).
TTFN!
i love graves work, and “the chalice and the blade.” not exactly academically rigorous, and occasionally wrong on the archaeology and dating, etc. but still both full of great ideas that deserve consideration.
As to goddess/fertility cultural survivors, check out Sheela Na Gigs! These date from early unknowns, but were preserved when building xtian building in the Middle Ages.
Sheila NaGig is my porn name.
Did anyone catch that totally mindless piece by some airhead gossip columnist on the wuzpost on what Plame was DRESSED IN at the hearing fer godsake?? Sort of a subversive putdown.
On Robert Graves – a poet who claimed to be Muse/Goddess inspired and to have “channeled” his wonderful historical novels “I, Claudius” “King Jesus” and “Wife to Mr. Milton” — Graves also wrote a channeled novel of the future, a future which seems more plausible by the day: “Watch the Northwind Rise”. In it, anthropologists have set up a Goddess-Culture for the post-apocolypse remnant of humanity, but there is Trouble in Paradise. I love this work, which I read when a teen, and had hoped to live long enough for it to go out of copyright so that I could do a dramatization– preferably a musical one, since music and magic are themes. But with the recent extension of copyright long past the century mark I have lost hope: not only will I be dead before this out-of-print masterpiece can be revived and reworked, civilization will probably be dead too and unable to benefit from the prophetic poet’s vision.
“religion” and “science” are simply two different long-standing narrative consensus’s and to possibly understand them one has to understand the culture of their constituents – and “democratic government” is yet another. What does it mean that masculinity seems to be exalted?
Geralyn Horton at 231: Watch the Northwind Rise.
I’ll look for it.
Are you sure the rights would be ‘prohibitively’ expensive re: dramatization?
Is there a God?
This thread has been broken and in likelihood there won’t be very many people viewing my “two cents” and that’s good. It doesn’t matter, this is mainly for me.
In my family there are a few members that have let’s just say capacity for “instinct” or “coincidence”. I would not consider the word “psychic” that would appear to me as a conceit, like somehow people (there are quite a few) with this “talent” are somehow better, superior than other ordinary people. It doesn’t mean that this “instinct” works all the time, that people who have this capacity can’t be fooled especially when you are blinded by your own “wishful thinking”. Everybody at some time has been tricked by their own perception of what is hoped for and it doesn’t matter if you have any kind of “instinct”.
One particular instance I can remember regarding this “instinct” or “coincidence” was a dream I had a couple years ago. It was a horrifying dream. It wasn’t about me it was about a woman. It was like I was there with her seeing everything through her eyes and feeling everything she was feeling.
It was a room I believe it to be warm and she was bound tight, can’t move arms laying flat. There was this man leaning over. His description was a Caucasian fair complexion, relatively young male, dark hair, dark eyes, medium build and no mustache. His hands were around her neck, choking. But he wasn’t doing this to kill yet but to see how long it would take to kill. He would stop choking it was just an experiment several times and was taking a lot of pleasure in this process. That person fed off that poor woman’s fear. I cannot fully describe the look on his face when he saw the fear in her face. It wasn’t human. The closest I can even come to is twisted, ugly, gleeful abandon. Evil like I have never seen evil before. At some point she was so very afraid she was hallucinating, there something about a plastic bag over her head, she wanted to get away from this man, even if that meant dying.
I woke up from this terrible dream, I told my husband immediately details of this dream then my mother-in-law, my grown children, and my sister later that day. It was so frightening that when my husband left for work I locked the windows and doors.
Over a week later there was this serial killer BTK Dennis Rader who was arrested (February 25, 2005) in the news. That is the first time I have ever heard of this person or his activities. Initially when I saw his face I thought well he’s an older man and he had a mustache so it couldn’t be him. But apparently he had been at this ugly business for a long time. There was a picture of him when he was a young man. Dark hair and eyes, no mustache, it looked like the dream but his face in the dream had the terrifying essence of his true nature.
I still do not want to speculate any further regarding this dream to say that it was either some terrible coincidence or was truly my instinct. I can thankfully say that have never had a dream regarding getting murdered prior or after this event. There are other times my instinct has kicked in but usually it is not about such a terrifying event.
I hope there is a God because of the people who are trying to protect the rest of us from that kind of evil will need all the help they can get. Also if that dream about that poor woman is true, she and her family are safe now, nobody can hurt them anymore.
Long time reader, first time blogger.
I was wondering if anyone has read, “When God Was a Woman” by Merlin Stone. I thought it very interesting.
I also think that religion is part and parcel to human’s evolution. However, we seem to have hit a lazy streak in which the majority fails to exercise due diligence in questioning dogma and discerning probable fact from obvious fiction. We cling to the familiar even if the familiar is toxic.
Surprised by no mention of Kramer and Wolkstein’s book-
Inanna-Queen of Heaven and Earth
http://www.amazon.com/Inanna-D…..0060908548
Earliest written record of Sumerian feminine deity worship. Also very moving.
If you are serious about this strain of thought, you have to begin here since it is the closest to the grave goods and pre-literate archaeological figure findings and give insights beyond their physical form
Ridge