
Last night a little shiver went through the threads in reaction to the letter sent by Special Counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald to the Honorable Henry Waxman, Chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. Apparently, there was some confusion stemming from Chairman Waxman's letter of March 8th(PDF) inviting PatFitz to come in for a chat and people thought that meant Fitz was going to testify tomorrow.
No, my little chickadees, that's not how it works.
You see, our big guy is a real honest to gosh professional prosecutor. That means he is hemmed in by all sorts of restrictions on his conduct. Among those restrictions are two that deserve mention here and both form the underpinnings of the letter which Fitzgerald sent in reply to Chairman Waxman (PDF).
The first are the restrictions placed upon US Attorneys when they are asked to give testimony or briefings to Congress. They are required to get their testimony pre-approved, usually by the Counsel to the Executive Director of the Office of US Attorneys (CTD = Counsel to Director). This is a relevant excerpt from the US Attorney's Manual:
1-8.030 Reference of Other Requests to CTD
All other Congressional requests for information or assistance should be immediately referred to CTD either by contacting CTD or politely informing the requestor that you are required to refer all such inquiries to CTD and providing them with information on how to contact CTD by phone, mail or fax.
Examples of requests that should be referred to CTD include but are not limited to requests for non-public documents or information, discussion of or briefings on case status (other than as set out in 1-8.020), attendance at settlement conferences, specific suggestions on case disposition or other treatment, discussion of or requests for information on problems under existing law or suggestions for changes in existing law, requests for interviews, statements or appearances to or before Congressional, members, staff and committees. Follow this standard in both open and closed cases and never provide information on pending investigations, closed investigations that did not become public, that involves Grand Jury, tax or other restricted information, that would reveal the identity of confidential informants, sensitive investigative techniques, deliberative process or the exercise of prosecutorial discretion, or the identity of individuals who may have been investigated but not indicted, without consulting CTD and obtaining authorization from the proper Department authorities. Any Congressional request that involves Privacy Act considerations should also be referred to CTD as special rules apply to Congress in this area.
As you can see, no prior approval, no testimony. Fitzgerald's letter to Waxman (cc'd to former Arlan Specter staffer and former apologist for exempting the Department of Homeland Security from FOIA Richard A. Hertling now Acting Assistant Attorney General for Legislative Affairs, but NOT CTD) makes this clear in the 3rd paragraph:
Based upon consultation with the Department of Justice, I have been advised of its long-standing policy of declining to provide non-public information about pending law enforcement matters, including briefings.
More importantly, Fitzgerald is bound by Rule 6(e) of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure which requires that grand jury information remain secret, at least until after indictment. All true, and all in PatFitz's letter.
Several things that Congress needs to take notice of:
-Just as with the Pearl Harbor Day massacred US Attorneys who asked for and received subpoenas to testify before the Judiciary Committee, in the current climate the only way a DOJ employee can talk to Congress without being insubordinate (in which case they can legitimately be fired "for cause") is if Congress compels the testimony and frames the request in such a way that DOJ cannot refuse permission. Congress are going to have to peel this onion layer by layer and force DOJ at each step of the way. This is hard work. I get that. There will not be one glorious day of testimony tomorrow where all will be revealed and we will suddenly know the answers to all our questions. This is the real world. There will be months of backbreaking labor as day after day the steady drip, drip, drip of one awful revelation after another. Hill staffers are going to have to dig deep and work hard if these Committees actually want to get at the truth.
- Even without the grand jury material there may be a considerable body of evidence that Chairman Waxman can procure for his Committee's review. First of all, as The Fitzgerald response letter points out, there is a vast body of information already publicly available in the form of trial testimony, and exhibits including the wonderland of information included in the unsealed grand jury testimony of Scooter Libby-in fact Pat highlights that in his letter. Parsing that information will be a goldmine I'm sure.
- Remember the way Pat has framed the DOJ policy in his letter "non-public information about pending law enforcement matters" in a paragraph that is talking about Libby's motion for a new trial and planned appeal. So, I read that to mean any crimes not charged or any suspects not indicted are not involved in "pending law enforcement matters." Remember, Pat said unless something changed, they were all going home to their day jobs.
-This is where things might get good. You may recall that there is some significant information that came to the investigation outside of the presence of the grand jury and not as a direct result of a grand jury subpoena. So, even if the material was later presented to the grand jury, if you knew of its existence from another source you could ask for it. Shorter version- you can't ask for "everything you presented to the grand jury but got from a none grand jury method", but you can ask for "the notes of that interview I know you had with so and so before the grand jury was empanelled." See the difference? It's a little subtle, but very significant.
Let me give you an example, we know (because it was in the newspapers) that PatFitz interviewed the President and Vice-President outside the presence of the grand jury. IIRC there was no GJ subpoena. I assume, that the focus of the interview was not whether or not Libby had committed perjury, but rather the possible "underlying crimes" (OT- somewhere in the vast FDL post reservoir is a post from me explaining just how silly the "no underlying crime" canard really is. We may see it soon) so although "non public" the information would not at this juncture be related to a "law enforcement matter" and therefore would not fall under this DOJ policy-which BTW is ONLY a policy and does not have the effect of a rule of law and does not trump a Congressional subpoena-if Rep. Waxman or anybody else on the Hill was in the mood to show a heavy dose of testosterone.
I don't know how many FBI interviews and other interviews of this sort were conducted outside the presence of the grand jury and not in connection with a grand jury subpoena, but I am having a hard time thinking of a reason why DOJ would be justified in prohibiting PatFitz from briefing Congress about the existence of such material especially since some of it may never even have been presented to the GJ.
There may also be documents that were turned over in advance of the empanelling of the GJ or turned over voluntarily not in connection with a GJ subpoena. Do you see where I am going with this?
But, but you say with quavering voice and trembling lip, what about the Grand Jury testimony???? Fear not firepups, there is succor on that front as well!
-Rule 6(e)(3)(E)(i) Allows for the unsealing of grand jury material for use "preliminary to or in connection with a judicial proceeding"
In order to do that a motion would be made before Judge Walton and there would have to be a showing that Congress had a "particularized need" for the GJ information and that it would be used preliminary to or in connection with a judicial proceeding.
So now you are thinking, but how does that help Henry Waxman? Where is the trial? No, no my darling firepups, you do not appreciate how flexible the term judicial proceeding really is! I love being a lawyer!
There is prior case law, for example Halderman v. Sirica, and a bunch of "in re grand jury..." cases that hold that a Congressional investigation in furtherance of a possible impeachment is indeed a judicial proceeding. I'll give you a good analogy and if I were writing the brief on this motion (would I give my right arm to write that brief or what?) I would make an argument based on this analogy. Elsewhere in Rule 6 it says an Attorney for the government can (without asking anybody's permission) disclose GJ material to another GJ.
When Congress investigates impeachable offenses, it is acting like a grand jury. In fact, in the case of the President, the only body that can return an "indictment" against him, called a Bill of Impeachment, is the House of Representatives. So, a Congressional investigation which could lead to either impeachment or referral of cases for prosecution by DOJ or by a Special Prosecutor, is like a big non secret GJ. Rule 6 recognizes this, but since it is an unusual deviation from the normal GJ secrecy rules, quite appropriately, requires that an additional showing of particularized need be made.
-So, Congressman Waxman and his Committee or any other Committee that wishes to hold hearings into whether any of the underlying crimes may have been committed need only frame both their investigations and their requests for information with the strictures of Rule 6 in mind. Just make a record demonstrating why you have a particularized need and go place your proof in front of Judge Walton. Do a good job of it, and I believe the process, though slow, will be effective. And everybody will have the added satisfaction of knowing that we did it all without subverting the rule of law.
Login Here
Spotlight



Support this site!
Keep
up with news
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search


RSS/XML Feed
PROP!
Good Post LHP!
Fitz!
Sure hope they’re reading this blog in the Committee offices.
Sounds like tomorrow will be the start of fun popcorn munching times!
So in short, our Fitzgasm may be delayed, but if and when it comes, it’s gonna be a doozy!
So. There is reasonsable hope for impeachment and or indictment of others in the Bush admin.? ‘Reasonable’ is the operative word here.
This makes my day… Thanks so much
We will probably have a constitutional crisis
before we get the TRUTH…
Jack
Begs the question - Did Waxman know the procedure and send the letter for effect? Or did Waxman not know the procedure? Regardless, now that we know that Waxman knows the process, we are hopeful that he will follow through accordingly.
How soon after January of 2009 will Smirk and Shooter be leaving for Paraguay?
The Rule of Law is what’s going to get our a*s out of this jam.
This guy’s the umpire
Yay!
I have a question on ethics then. Do fired/retired USA’s abide by the same closed-mouth rules. I am thinking of Arlen Specter’s interrogation of Attorney Lam. There came a point in the proceedings when he asked her (paraphrase) …” and WERE YOU conducting politically sensitive investigations of other members of Congress that would cause your performance ratings to be so low?” Arlen has made a great show if wanting to get to the bottom of the scandal, but he seems intent upon proving Lam and others deserve to be fired. I read it as setting up a smear—others seem to see it as Arlen innocently saying to the White House “well, if you say the performance was bad, show me the evidence,please.” So why was he asking Lam?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 7
Reasonable? Not my call to make. Check with Speaker Pelosi. But entirely within the realm of existing law and precedent? You betcha
karnak12 @ 11
You mean Fitgerald?
hackworth @ 9
Well in case he didn’t know the procedure, we good patriot americans don’t want to keep this information to ourselves, now do we?
You know, we write to our Congressmen al lthe time when we want them to help us. I think it’s time we helped them. They have a big job to do and I’m sure extra help couldn’t hurt
dude @ 12
Even after you leave, you have some obligations to have your statements screened. It depends on what they are about.
“And everybody will have the added satisfaction of knowing that we did it all without subverting the rule of law.”
you mean, truth, Justice, and the American Way?
dare I relive my childhood?
Wow. This is a great post, LHP. Good to have all of you lawyers clarifying things for us all.
thanks lhp for trying to explain things to us…
a question for you… could special agent jack eckenrode (now retired, iirc), the special agent in charge of the FBI office in chicago who headed up the investigation, be called to tell waxman about what previous interviews / evidence there is?
Great post, LHP. It explains a lot. Maybe you should send Waxman a copy.
njr @ 17
Not for nuthin’ but I want Littleprop to grow up feeling safe from her government. Feeling the way I did, that the government was here to protect the American people and that the call to government service was almost akin to a religious vocation.
That’s not going to be possible if things don’t turn around and WE have to do the turning.
It’s not merely succeeding, it’s HOW we succeed. We have to do it the right way.
SharonRB @ 20
Hopefully by now he has a much more detailed, annotated copy
Really helpful and thoughtful, thanks!
LHP:
You and me both would love to be writing those briefs.
As to the “impeachment maybe” question at 7 - I’d say the impeachment of Clinton during one Congress, and the trial during another (remember - that took place!) is more than sufficient precedent to follow these folks into the next Congress (when, hopefully, a substantial number of the 21 Rethug Senators up for election in 2008 will, uh, lose). Go read my diary On impeachment at TalkLeft http://www.talkleft.com/story/.....5040/1017.
selise @ 19
Possibly. What Waxman needs is a briefing about what is out there that might be available before making the rule 6(e)(3)(F) motion.
scribe @ 24
Don’t you love the virtual think tank here at the Lake?
looseheadprop @ 25
Hell, why doesn’t Waxman just hire Eckenrode to work on the committee.
Waxman should hire LHP and EW as special consultants to the Committee and save himself a lot of time and effort.
looseheadprop @ 25
well, jack ought to know!
woo-hoo!!
Kudo’s for the Halderman v. Sirica reference. It had me laughing and crying all at once.
We’re there all over again.
OT — Leahy coming up on Ed Schultz shortly to talk about breaking news in the USA situation. Sounds like they may be subpoenaing Karligula, but wait to hear what Leahy has to say.
EPU’d from yesterday but on topic here:
From the BBC News website profile of Fitz:
BBC News cites Fitzmas, thinking he’s Patrick Fitzgerald. Sometimes they just don’t do research.
(Shout-out to powerline, who linked it first.)
scribe @ 24
My bad on the Link.
Try this:
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2007/3/15/15040/1017
Very interesting, LHP. Thank you!
I’m kinda partial to 6(e)(3)(D) myself.
Wonder what will happen when Americans realize that foreign intelligence agencies were in on the lies leading to Iraq.
hackworth @
14
yep
radarlady @ 30
Kinda OT- but you know what I found out reseachingthis? H.R “Bob” Halderman’s name was really Harry R. Halderman. I never knew that
What is it withthese guys who work at the WH, are afraid to use their own first names and go through their professional lives with a “nickname” in quotation marks like some kind of mafia boss?
Where is PAch when I need him? Is this some kind of constellation of psychological symtoms that produces an overwhelming deisre to destroy the Constitution? What’s up with that?
egregious @ 35
Eg, you going the treason route? Wow, you are tough one!
At this point, I am not confident the Speaker will support impeachment hearings. And I understand the ’super-majority’ thing.
Again, FDL provides some great authoritive insight.
Thanks, LHD, but there’s one line in your post that explains our laymen’s angst, and you lawyers know why.
“I believe the process, though slow, will be effective.”
I already know the answer, but the layman’s question is surely, “Why can’t the wheels of justice move as quickly as the criminals.”
LHP - Very nice work here. I can certainly see why fitz’s response to Waxman might depress a lot of people, but I was actually kind of encouraged by it. It exhibited that he was still the straight arrow professional we have given him credit for being and, although in muted tones, pointed the way for Waxman. You have done an outstanding job in explaining how this could be. One question, why are the Congressional committees not more up to speed on this? There ought to be basic templates for discovery of these various types from USAttys/DOJ along the lines of “Please provide all nonGJ material within your possession regarding_____” A letter or subpoena containing five to ten similar sentences for the different discovery areas available would be right on the mark. I understand your “baby steps” theory, but this step should have been attached to the first letter to Fitz. The committees and their internal counsel are not rookies, WTF?
Tomorrow is going to be the start of something beautiful I hope.
After Waxman starts his death by a thousand cuts routine, it will be very interesting to see what they try to slip in for the Friday news dump.
BTW, Great post LHP.
I love it when someone like you can show me the legal nuances available for back scuttling BushCo.
JEP @ 40
Outside the US Attorney’s Ofice in SDNY there is a big red sculture of intersecting wheels, like a complicated gear. The real name of the sculpture is “infinity”.
You know the way in HS upper classman would sell fake “pool passes” to the freshman? Well my little prank, and it’s very little was that I would tell all newcommers to SDNY that the name of the sculpture was “Wheels of Justice” and that it was a kinetic sculpture that turned so slowly that the movement was not perceptable to the human eye.
Every single one of them bought it. Justice is very slow, but in the hands of master practioners and can also be sure.
looseheadprop >
The path to Nirvana is difficult, long, never sure and winds hiter and yon but surely is worth the effort of the journey.
“The first lesson of democracy is not to hold the public in contempt.” - Ronnie Earle
scribe @ 33
So then it’s still the super majorty hurdle? Even assuming many Republicans lose in 2008?
hey, you want a republcian that can win the executive in 08?
the first one to say bush should be impeached and cheney should be jailed
if it’s a democrat it’s powerfull enough but if it’s a republican that person might well go to the white house
JEP @ 40
The wheels of justice grind slow, but they grind exceedingly fine.
egregious >
No tellin but first they have to grok it. Not sure that is reasonable to expect given the experience of the last oh say 50 or so years.
“Let everyone sweep in front of his own door, and the whole world will be clean.” - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
And so from the Republicans generally, and the Bush types specifically, it’s just a wait ‘em out deal? In less than two years, it’s who’s gonna care kinda thinking?
Looseheadprop,
Are you writing this article as advice to Henry Waxman regarding how he needs to proceed?
I hope so.
I certainly found it very informative.
Is there a Law School that gives constructive credit to those of us who have closely followed the Libby trial and such associated legal proceedings here at FDL? There should be.
Thanks again for the instruction.
bmaz @ 41
DOJ would not give templates to Congress.
First of all, in anormal world, DOJ would not be trying to muzzle people who have relevant information to provide to oversight committees.
Second of all, in a normal world, prosecutors fight hammer and tong to keep their investigations materials secret by any means possible so that the criminals will not be tipped off, so why would it be appropriate for DOJ to get in th e way of that.
No we are living in crazy world where the bad guys are the ones making decisons abot what can be disclosed.
OT–Read Murray Waas’s newest. I was so happy, I actually teared up. He shows how the work of honest career prosecutors has been consistently thwarted by malfesance at the very top of DOJ and the WH. Basically accused Gonzales of obstruction of justice and lays out some pretty compelling facts.
So, to answer you question. I don’t think too many Congressman keep a stable of middle aged ex prosecutors with years of experience in investigations on their staffs.
My impression is that Congressional staffer is a job for early in one’s legal career. Not that I really know that much about it.
Awwwww… an’ here I thought you guys weren’t paying any attention to me last night. Shucks. Thank you very much indeed, LHP. Big BIG hug. All better now.
melfeasance @ last night’s 40
Anyone know anything more about this?
Fitzgerald tells Congress he can’t say much about CIA leak
looseheadprop @ 22
First: refresh before you Spotlight, so you get the revised version without the few obvious typos. If you see others after refreshing, let the mods know.
Second, this is an extremely important post, because it provides a roadmap for Congressional investigations. Make sure your Congresscritters, especially Dem committee members, know about this post, and also Spotlight to media — editorial boards, legal correspondents, commentators, panelists, etc —
The right will spin Fitz letter to mean the investigations can’t go anywhere, so the media need to see that this is not necessarily true. Do your thing, firedogs.
Astonishing post lhp.
“Laws can embody standards; governments can enforce laws–but the final task is not a task for government. It is a task for each and every one of us. Every time we turn our heads the other way when we see the law flouted–when we tolerate what we know to be wrong–when we close our eyes and ears to the corrupt because we are too busy, or too frightened–when we fail to speak up and speak out–we strike a blow against freedom and decency and justice.” Robert F. Kennedy — United States Attorney General from 1961 to 1964
Just a question for all the serious Plame-ologists out there:
Does anyone know whether Fitz investigated the rnc.org and gwb43.com email accounts?
Because, from the doc dump in the US Attorneys’ mess, it appears the WH was using email through those accounts as a back channel to hide the political side’s tracks. Check the article at
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/002771.php
Seems this might well be a (serious) violation of the Presidential Records Act.
CREW has put a letter in to Waxman, but I gotta wonder whether Fitz (even though he’s really thorough) looked there.
Also, since they put this info through the RNC and GWB43 campaign servers, that would, I suppose, vitiate any claims of any privilege the WH could possibly make. It might even open them up to ordinary-person lawsuits, as the RNC and the campaign fon’t get any of the governmental immunities the WH would get, no?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 49
I prefer to think of it as two glorious years of putting every single instance of their perfidity under a microscope, disseccting it, and making sure it can never happen again
LHP, thank you so much for another wonderful post again. I know I would be hopelessly lost if it weren’t for you, Christy, Marcy, Pach, litigatormom and everyone else that are so willing to share their wisdom with the rest of us. Thanks to Jane for giving us the Lake in the first place.
In the meantime, I’ll be running out for more popcorn.
-S
lhp - thanks for a great post. I always learn something from you.
Rick B @ 50
I am writing this not just for Waxman, but for the rest of the folks onthe Hill and for the MSM, so that it can be communicated out to the Amrican people and maybe, just maybe enough support will build and Waxman will have enough cover, to do what needs doing.
But first they need a game plan. This was a good place to start
1,455 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Looseheadprop:
Bless your clever, lawyer heart counselor and may I say: “Holy Shit!!”
“…cases that hold that a congressional investigation in furtherance of a possible impeachment is indeed a judicial proceeding.”
Our Tall Man, Fitz, and some a the good guys on the hill (read this as Leahy, Conyers and Waxman) clearly are on the same page and they are all speakin’ the same language. I am old enough to have watched Watergate in all it’s glory (my son sat on my shoulders in a student saloon off campus while Nixon gave his resignation speech) and, though the wheels of justice and due process may grind slowly, the turbines of politics and impeachment can move VERY swiftly and inexorably. I think we’re jest about there…some a these old Nixon proteges are finally gunna get their due and lotsa folks are goin’ ta jail over the next few years.
KEEP THE FAITH AND THE LIGHTS ON, THIS IS GUNNA BE WELL WORTH SEEIN’!!!
Scarecrow @ 52
Thankyou Scarecrow. Especially thank you for cleaning up the typos.
I see the ad for “Addiction” on the left hand side, and I do not think of HBO’s new special.
lhp, hope this is okay to ask: did you actually send an annotated letter to Waxman?
LHP@51 - Agreed. My point really goes to a basic list or group of discovery sources and items that are specifically proper to be sought. You hit the most important ones, there are arguably a couple of others as well. Template was a poor choice of words as far as the actual request; I meant template in terms of things the committee could ask for in it’s specific demand letter. Now I could easily be wrong here, but I think Fitz’s office is separate from the DOJ and that he invited such a request. If a properly limited and phrased request was made, of items and areas patently appropriate, I think he would comply without a bogus fight dragging it out and that he could do so because of the quasi-independence of his office. As I understatnd it, Fitz is the custodian of his records and files until his office is closed.
we know (because it was in the newspapers) that PatFitz interviewed the President and Vice-President outside the presence of the grand jury.
I don’t know if it makes a difference, but we also know this with regard to the VP thanks to David Addington’s testimony under cross-examination.
I’ll also add that there is almost no question that Libby’s at-that-point-possible crimes of obstruction, perjury, false statements were at least also at issue when Cheney and Bush were interviewed.
This is a great set of arguments, though I’m deeply skeptical we’ll ever see any of the material you’re talking about.
Thanks lhp, I learn a lot from you.
Thanks, LHP.
this clarification is exactly what i was thinking was going on when i heard the news of Fitz yesterday. There’s always something between the lines, i just don’t have the skill to find the correct things in such a legal manner.
It sounds like things are going according to procedure. Just like i thought they were. Slow, steady and deadly…
scribe @ 55
Holy Moley! Could this be? could it? The 250 emails “not archived in the normal way”????
Be still my beating heart!
So we’re interested in accountability? Like in, if one does this or that illegal act, then this is what will happen? That just because all or most of our politicos do it, doesn’t necessarily make it right. I can buy into that. Big time. I am sounding sanctimonious, I know. But I don’t care. I want to send a message. To any political party.
melfeasance @ last night’s 40
Anyone know anything more about this?
Fitzgerald tells Congress he can’t say much about CIA leak
malfeasance for You and only You I was up all night on Lexis and read 200 pages till my eyesight gave out.
Here is the witness list, for hearing tomorrow, just released by oversight committee:
Ms. Valerie Plame Wilson, former employee, Central Intelligence Agency
Dr. James Knodell, Director, Office of Security, The White House (invited)
Mr. Mark Zaid, Attorney
Ms. Victoria Toensing, diGenova & Toensing, LLP
Tithonia @ 63
I’m not sure, but I believe the good Chairman has recieved several detailed documents today. Couldn’t let all that late night reading go to waste
However, I cannot yet say I’m into the “glorious” part.
P.S. you can subscribe to get updates from the committee via email, they will also be putting up a link on their page tomorrow to listen and will also post video later.
bmaz @ 64
I think so too. Such a template has been written
jmba @ 71
WOOT!
Maybe we’ll get to see Valerie rebutt Toenails personally!
Jeff @ 65
you don’t ask, you don’t get. What have we got to lose by asking?
Ooops, here is the linky:
http://oversight.house.gov/
NorskeFlamethrower @ 60
Where ya been fu-gas, we were all callin for you last week?
jmba @ 70
Whaaat? NO Marcy? Are they crazy or just ill-informed?
lhp @ 72: That is awesome.
Bustednuckles @ 76
That would be a YouTube classic!
WOOT!
Maybe we’ll get to see Valerie rebutt Toenails personally!
I prefer “Toejam”…, because just saying it gives me the willies, just like her presence does.
LHP@75 - Well then, be still MY heart, you, LHP, have a new ardent admirer. Thank you.
looseheadprop @
61
Typos prove you are real professional. :-)
A fascinating post but one might wonder why Waxman needed the instruction. Didn’t he - or more precisely his staff - know he had to be rebuffed?
Best, Terry
Thanks so much lhp!
detail about Mark Zaid
http://www.jamesmadisonproject.org/markzaid.html
petedownunder @
28
I think there’s some extra-legal loop-de-doop in re buying the cow if the milk’s already free, but I’m just a simple country lass… ;->
LHP, This is just awesome! It’s all so new to layfolk like moi, I’m just stunned. Can’t thank you enough!
Ahem! DO TELL! In light of the terrific importance of this post, surely it WILL be read far & wide. That in mind, is there one lil’ typing oopsie, perhaps?? next to last paragraph: should the word before “indictment” be [an] instead of [and]???
Again. BRAVO! and Deep Thanks!
LHP, thanks for making this all so clear.
I have a question: Day before yesterday I called Conyers’ office to ask if he’d look into something related to the prosecutor purge. I got a call yesterday — a message telling me Judiciary would be calling me.
Does that mean my question/request goes into some sort of public document with my identity attached? And why would they want to call someone who merely asks them to check out a certain case? It’s one that Conyers knows well and I have nothing to add to what he knows. I was just reminding him of questions he asked in 2005, hoping to rekindle his desire to get to the bottom of it.
News Grinder @ 88
They know every move everyone makes.
I’d love to see what Sam Ervin, Peter Rodino, Elliot Richardson and John Sirica would do with this mess.
LHP - I LOVE the reference to “The Fitzgerald.”
I sure hope Waxman’s people know as much as you do.
LHP, outstanding post. Thank you.
Patrick Fitzgerald IS The Bowler!
Thanks, LHP. I love the Lake!!!!
Sorry, didn’t mean to bury this quite so thoroughly, so I’m repeating this little possible correction, in case it wasn’t noticed by others.
Is there one lil’ typing oopsie, perhaps?? next to last paragraph: should the word before “indictment” be [an] instead of [and]???
MrEddieb @ 92
They do now. *g*
Raven@89: Gulp.
OT: CSPAN 2 Senate voting on war now.
1,455 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Raven:
Thanx brother, I was on the beach in Negril with my bride and though I thought about a verdict once and awhile, I didn’t hear anything until I read a column from a Kingston paper on Thursday. I think that we are WAAAY past Scootergate and on the way to a complete cleaning of the cages that has been due since Ford pardoned Tricky Dick. Things are movin’ at a speed and force that even God can’t stop.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION THE BASTARDS AREN’T IN LEAVENWORTH YET!!!
scribe @
54
but they do get tax breaks which are tied directly to their adherence to the laws of the United States. This could get even more interesting.
I know this has been brought up cause I saw it here but,
I am LOVING me some Murray Wass today!
Double whammy on the POTUS fanny.
Note to Hugh,
If you have read it,is it on your list?
http://news.nationaljournal.co.....315nj1.htm
looseheadprop @ 70
For meeeee? Right answer! Nooooo not for me, melfeeeeasance, but for the malfeasance rampant in our government. So I just sent your post on to a wonderful woman I know who is one of Lynn Woolsey’s aides. Hopefully it will get to the right place in a timely manner. By the way, who did the fab picture of “fitz_jesus”?
Me always loves my Murray. Whatta guy.
The republic party is voting to continue to war unabated. This war should be tied around their fucking necks like an albatros for the rest of their pathetic lives.
OT but fucking HILARIOUS:
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/.....n-schmidt/
bmaz,
It seems to me you and LHP are kicking a#s on this issue. Kudos. Did you get my e-mail?
Liarman voted with the pukes.
Santana? Fitz? Dude that’s just wrong!
Oklahoma kiddo @
7
Remember “Impeachment is off the table?”
Let’s see — impeachment off the table, nuking Iran on the table.
We need a new table.
mc @
106
707
Waxman looks like a very intelligent man and shrewd operator. I have no doubt he will put to good use any relevant information his committee recieves.
I mean, it could be Ted ‘The Tube’ Stevens running this committee in which case all important information would be……..would be…………a truck!
Great post LHP
NorskeFlamethrower @ 100
Arie
Funny, I was in Negril, up on redground, during the 72 convention. I was in VVAW and my crazy buddy Karl the door gunner was afraid the FBI was on our asses (which they were) so he talked me into going to Jamacia. All of these folks from Champaign-Urbana were there and I was listening on the radio. I finally couldn’t take it anymore and I went back to Mo-bay and caught a plane to Miami. When I got to Flamingo Park the encampment has dispersed and I was on my own in th middle of a riot! There were all these old folks in front of their houses letting us rinse the teargas out of our eyes and talking about “those Nazi’s”! And that is my story of Negril. My next trip there was when Elvis died, I hear it’s changed.
tbsa @ 107
so did Pryor.
Excellent post, Looseheadprop. Thank you! Thank you!
from this morning’s WH Tony Snow show:
Q Do you think the White House made any mistakes in this whole matter of the discussions over the firings? And particular, I’m wondering if Attorney General Gonzales was making statements to members of Congress, beginning in January, that later proved to be not exactly in line with the facts, weren’t people in the White House aware of that?
MR. SNOW: I’m not going to get into extensive sort of fact witnessing….
how interesting…
JC@107 - I did. Sorry I haven’t responded quicker; got lots of questions and info. Might be going to a Cactus League game with poorten while I am down in Tucson in about ten days. will try to get an email out to you tonight!
Why is V Toensing part of the process? Is this because of her supposed writing of the IIPA laws?
Or do they want her to discuss jury tampering?
Morris Sheppard @ 110
I know. What is the rationale exactly, behind the “off the table” business?
angie @ 114
gdmfsob!
lhp, great post, as per usual. You are such a great gift to the lake.
There goes Ben Nelson voting with the thugs.
sorry ESAR.
Warner talking about both sides of his ass, saying how terrible the war is, yet voting to “stay the course”
Patience? Sounds like a Republican talking point to this Dem. As for “off the table”? Don’t quite understand that. Is it the super majority thing? And if so, is this just cover for something more sinister?
angie @ 122
Nelson of FLA voted yes. There are two Nelsons.
News Grinder @ 88
They may just be calling to see if you have any ideas for them.At times like this whistle blowers ocme out of the woodwork
looseheadprop @
25
And I believe I know just the person to do that. Two, in fact. Henry could save a *lot* of time by putting you and/or Marcy on staff.
From FDL to Henry Waxman’s e-mail, which, BTW is *here*, for anyone who wants to send a nice suggestion. That is him in his persona as Chairman, House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, not his Representative e-mail, ie, doesn’t not snub you if you are not from the ‘right’ zip code.
yes - 48
no - 50
Bill is shot down!
I am a firm believer in choice. Of all kinds. I’d like some choice on Iraq between my party and the Republicans.
Wow, LHP, what a great post. thanks a bunch.
Maybe Fitz, Republican or no, should consider running for office.
lhp -
I see just one correction to make in your fine and very informative post:
LooseHeadThoughts: Rule 6(e)
By: looseheadprop
Hill staffers are going to have to dig deep and work hard if these Committees actually want to get at the truth.
Let us hope they do and thank you for the hard work and elucidation.
bmaz says:
March 15th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
LHP - Very nice work here. I can certainly see why fitz’s response to Waxman might depress a lot of people, but I was actually kind of encouraged by it. It exhibited that he was still the straight arrow professional we have given him credit for being and, although in muted tones, pointed the way for Waxman.
That was my thought also.
Balrog @ 118
I have this little fantasy, where the committee does the same thing to her that PatFitz did with that cross examination question “If Scooter Libby took two hours out of his very busy day, that would be unusual wouldn’t it?”
And turned the defense witness into a fabulous witness for the prosecution. Vicky’s been playin’ fast and loose and so, maybe she’ got some ’splianin’ to do?
More on Zaid;interesting other job.(Wonder if he has any Boris and Natasha ephemera!)
http://scoop.diamondgalleries......amp;si=124
Bustednuckles @ 102
92. Refusal to grant security clearances to OPR (Office of Public Responsibility) lawyers investigating the role of Gonzales in NSA wiretapping thus quashing the investigation
So all Republicans one Lieberman (I-CT) and one Pryor (D-AR). voted to continue the escalated occupation of Iraq.
We lost ground on that vote.
Remember Wes Clark wholeheartedly endorsed Pryors reelection bid last weekend. Pryor raised 800k in one night and at this point in time is running unopposed.
looseheadprop @
21
This is absolutely true.
Back during the Watergate era, much of the good vibes at the time was Constitutionalism– that no one was above the law, and that our Constitution was virtually our Holy Writ.
Nowadays, there aren’t all that many public figures who place the Constitution front and center. Chris Dodd is one of the few. I’m hoping that the forthcoming hearings will bring back some of that reverence for the rule of law and our Constitution that burned so brightly during Watergate.
Bob in HI
Michael @ 131
For the ten millionth time:
Patrick James Fitzgerald is NOT a Republican, nor a Democrat.He is registered “blank” party and has forfeited the right to vote in party primaries in order to keep his butt out od partisan politcs.
HotFlash @ 127
I humbly encourage everyone at FDL to please send an extremely polite, short email to Waxman’s office, which includes a link to this post by Looseheadprop.
Please let Waxman know that Americans care deeply about what happened to Valerie Plame and Brewster Jennings, and we want to help him to bring sunlight to this matter by sharing Looseheadprop’s brilliant legal advice.
Sheer numbers matter a lot, so I really hope everyone takes a few minutes to do this.
Thank you so much.
Eureka Springs, AR @ 137
Pryor is just another DINO. How do the people of Arkansas feel about the war?
One part of me goes along with antiwar.com type libertarians and thinks of the Republican/Democratic parties at ‘The War Party.’
And then we have these Waxman hearings…
looseheadprop @
134
Why would she want to be there, subpoena or not? I agree with your explanation. Sounds like a lose-lose situation for her. What are the consequences of her not showing or refusing to testify?
Eureka Springs, AR @ 136
I disagree. Yes, this vote failed, but now every one of the GOP is on record supporting Bush and his war. Between now and Nov 2008, as things continue to go nowhere in Iraq, that’s going to be a tough vote to sell, no matter where you live.
bmaz @
41
Well, they haven’t actually been doing a lot of oversight, now have they? Leahy says he ‘hit the cailing’ when the USAtty firings came down, seems Gonzo’s ‘briefings’ had not mentioned any such thing.
I have this mental image of Senor Wences oversight committees. “S’alright?” “S’alright.” And then they go home.
Dru @ 135
I love it! He’s a geek!
Eureka Springs, AR @ 137
I have been such a huge Wes Clark fan from the very beginning. Huge! Monster huge! Till this Prior endoresement. Talk about selling out.
Michael @ 131
I read that he’s a registered Independent.
looseheadprop @ 147
Oh but he HAS to do it, it’s the way it is done!
Oh, please let someone from Waxman’s staff be reading FDL!!!!!!!!!!
I don’t have any poll info… Nobody argues for this war anymore.
Wendy @ 150
I already emailed him with a link to the article. ;)
Wendy @ 150
You can send a link to Looseheadprop’s article to Waxman’s office by using this link:
*here*
ed teller
I have a buddy at American Lawyer who says Vicky does not care one little bit what you write about her flattering or not, so long as you DO write about her and spell the name right.
I think she just wants to be a “player” in this little drama.
You know, if this is one on one trial by combat between Valerie and Vicky, my money’s on the classy blond babe!
BTW Ambassador, if you are lurking. This would be a good night to be an especially thoughtful husband. Maybe do the dishes without being asked?
looseheadprop @ 147
Agreed. It certainly negates his show of support for Ned last year. He wont stand up in his home town against his own Lieberman.
Tiny correction (if this great post is to be sent about): Haldemann, not Halderman.
Love to see those Watergate criminals get recalled to living memory!
jmba @ 71
Curious he wants Toensing in there. She helped write the IIPA (right?) so that may be germane, but she’s also a shrill apologist of all things Bush/Cheney/Libby.
These may be stupid questions, but I’ll ask anyway:
Is Waxman allowed to subpoena Libby, despite his ongoing proceedings?
The Wilson suit is going ahead despite them, and so why not Waxman?
Also, can Waxman serve subpoenas to Rove and Cheney if he wants to? What if they just refuse to honor them?
looseheadprop @ 154
I have a buddy at American Lawyer who says Vicky does not care one little bit what you write about her flattering or not, so long as you DO write about her and spell the name right.
I think she just wants to be a “player” in this little drama.
You know, if this is one on one trial by combat between Valerie and Vicky, my money’s on the classy blond babe!
BTW Ambassador, if you are lurking. This would be a good night to be an especially thoughtful husband. Maybe do the dishes without being asked?
Ah, helpful hints. Must write these things down for next time.
looseheadprop @ 139
Is it possible to have the above made into a rubber stamp of some sort? I get tired of typing it on other sites as well.
Thank you, LHP.
-S
*xyz @ 153
Done.
Nelson (D-NB) also voted with those ghouls.
Now, here’s a refreshing voice:
more here:
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/....._0315.html
angie @
86
thanx for the link. i had never heard of zaid before. hopefully he will have also add to our knowledge of the hearing process someday.
Hello there pups. I hope you are all well. I escaped Plame House for the day, so I’ve seen nary a half-drank bottle of wine nor a cockroach nesting in the coffee filter.
But that means I’ve been running around all day. When is nap time, again?
just got my cspan daily email:
Tomorrow
Hearing on CIA Agent Valerie Plame Wilson’s Identity Leak (10am) - LIVE
Marcy– you’re in DC? Thank you, thank you.
OMG……..that picture!!! Hope that Fitz’s efforts end up doing to Bu$sco, what Jesus said he was going to do to John Goodman……………CLICK!!!
emptywheel @ 163
:)
Sorry, I missed it - Why are you back in DC?
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 132
As a former spelling champion, it always grates on my sense of propriety when typos on a blog get corrected by another commentor, as if the mistake was out of ignorance instead of expeditiousness.
I would wager, as one who turned his spell-check off long ago to improve my typing skills, that most of the typos you obsessive people are so concerned with were typed by people who could outspell most of you critics, but they aren’t sitting around publicly correcting others’ trivial, meaningless typing mistakes, they tend to concentrate on REAL issues like election fraud, government corruption, and media obfuscation.
Too many profreaders.
Marcy!
Oh shit, what am I doing? I’m way too noob to be using the lingo yet. Sheesh. LHP scratches me behind my ear a little and I’m droolin all over the place. I’ll go sit now.
LHP - great post! You tell it with enough humor and common sense as to make us forget that we’re reading legalese that we’re not supposed to be able to follow.
stingray @ 157
Waxman could subpeona Libby but Libby would not appear, he would just send a letter saying he has 5th ammendment problems.
The civil suit may be going forward, but I haven’t heard that Libby’s depistion has been scheduled, have you?
Cheney has repeatedly said he will not honor subpeonas. karl would have to move to quash
new thread
angie @ 165
Yup, Pach and I are working on crashing the gates tomorrow. Still working on it, we shall see.
That and I’m meeting lots of nice interesting people.
Terrific news, emptywheel.
I am glad you’re having some fun.
looseheadprop @ 171
The first hearing the civil suit is on May 17. It’s still a long shot for the case not to be dismissed. But it would still be the best way to force the entire cabal to start singing.
You can support that effort here.
JEP @ 168
Thank you for the defense, but I am famous for my totally terrible typing (say THAT 3 times fast!)
I appreciate all the proof reading ,but have to rely on the kindness of the mods to actually make the corrections b/c I also lack tech skills. Sigh.
Will just have to stick with the lawyer stuff.
JEP @ 168
That wasn’t directed at staff…
emptywheel @ 175
I’m going to go over there and donate right now. An extremely worthwhile cause. I’ll end my donation in .07 so they know it is from an FDL person.
emptywheel @ 173
I hope the nice interesting people are soaking up everything you have to say.
I think it is important to see precisely how Waxman has constructed this hearing. His question (no don’t fizz your keyboard) assumes that the White House understood its legal obligation to protect the covert identity of Valerie Wilson Plame, and he is asking “What did they do to protect her and her identity as well as the body of work at CIA for which she was responsible, and which was and is classified.”
This goes to the executive responsibility to take care that laws are faithfully executed — as in laws about how classified information is to be protected — not to other things that much interest us. Waxman is being very clever here in the way he is inserting his committee’s interest into this whole subject… He is laying a quite different predicate for why his committee is interested from the one we focused on at trial.
I would remind everyone that the Ervin Committee began with a 77-0 vote in the Senate to establish a select committee to investigate how the recently passed Campaign Financing Law was working. That was the clear Legislative intent — review and perhaps modify an existing law.
It appears Waxman is approaching this as an investigation into how well a Security Classification System is working in this administration. How much protection does Toesing’s 1982 Intelligence Identities Act actually provide to covert officers? Waxman will use Toesing as an “expert witness” on the 1982 legislative intent, and show in the process that her Act actually provides something of a roadmap for policy makers who want to leak in an operational sense — or who want to play political games with persons and materials that are classified. I predict this will destroy Toesing, and it will open up some vistas for Waxman to persue. If your initial finding is that the Security Classification system is not working in the Bush WH — the rules are not being observed, with the result that major investments over years in covert operations are compromised — you have a hell of a basis for doing deeper investigations, and ultimately writing workable laws.
Fitzgerald’s letter is also clever and instructive. As LHP points out, there are ways a committee can get to his materials, but they have to first lay their predicates so they can show the legislative necessity for specific information. Remember in Watergate the Judiciary Committee did not get Jaworski’s GJ materials until March of 1974, long into their committee impeachment investigation, and then it was a roadmap through the tapes they had accessed (relatively few), and some documents. It was only handed over after Jaworski had brought his indictments.
Waxman is not the proper committee for impeachment. We need to keep that clearly in mind. What is expected of his committee is reform of Government Operations. Of course in order to reform anything, he has to get at the root of what went wrong. If he finds serious security violations in the WH — he can send them over to DOJ for possible indictment. He can also draft new law, and send it to Judiciary and Intelligence for review before bringing it to the floor.
If Gonzoles does not resign, I suspect we will be hearing interest on the part of Conyers in impeaching him. Look in ten days or so for some resolutions to be dropped in the hopper in the house to this effect, which will mean Conyers has to get the machine out, oil it up, and see if it still works. If there are more Senators like Sunnu out there dissing Gonzoles in the press room — keep count. Are there enough to potentially convict? They won’t move the process forward unless the votes are potentially there — and one thing Cheney and Bush don’t want to see is a well staffed, well oiled working impeachment machine under Conyers careful custody and nurture. If the moves are made, I suspect Bush will arrange for Gonzoles to spend more family time with his family. Then Bush will have to find a new AG who can pass muster with Leahy and company.
Today at noon, Minnesota Public Radio did an hour long interview with two former USA’s from this state, (it’s archived, one can listen) and one nugget of information — apparently a whole host of former USA’s have been meeting and teleconferencing over the last week, and it seems as if plans are moving to make some key demands on congress and call for Gonzoles to step down or be impeached. It is apparently very bi-partisian — USA’s going back to Ford and Carter. So one more drop in the bucket.
looseheadprop @
56
The trouble with this approach is that it gives them two more years to conduct more perfidy (is that the right phrase?) You know they’re not going to stop until they’re out of office. And remember, Bush can now declare martial law. All he needs to do is wag the dog a little to create a crisis.
Its a bit like allowing a known pedophile to live near an elementary school for two years, without even any track record of recent good behavior, on the grounds that in two years they’ll be gone and it won’t matter anymore.
Bob in HI
emptywheel @ 173
Oooh, are any of them that nice Rep. Waxman?
looseheadprop @
68
Brings to mind the famous gap in one of the Nixon tapes. Could this be the electronic version of that?
Bob in HI
looseheadprop @
77
IIRC, those interviews were not under oath. Does that make a difference?
Bob in HI
Wow! LHP
My head hurts from trying to read that. ;-)
I think you quantified my thoughts that he was not going to testify because he may have more indictments up his sleeve (not that that’s what you’re saying, I’m just reading the tea leaves)
Ouch! My head still hurts ;-)
Between this post and Mary’s buried post about Humphrey’s Executor (which I’m googling now) a few days ago I’m going to need an aspirin
HotFlash @ 182
Shoot. I knew I forgot someone important.
No. Sorry.
looseheadprop @
171
A little publicity on Libby getting out of hearings on the 5TH grounds surely would make a pardon just a wee bit more difficult to give out, wouldn’t it?
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics.....amp;page=1
Bob Schacht @ 184
I think it might
emptywheel @
175
What are the likely causes for it to be dismissed? Greymail?
I am not a lawyer but I was wondering why these legal formalities regarding restrictions of conduct been clarified prior to the invitation to speak to Congress. Why wasn’t the homework done, please clarify.
Still wondering about the Plame investigation regarding Rove non-indictment…
Wasn’t there about five times the Grand Jury spoke to the guy?
Still waiting to hear what was said by Bush, Cheney and Rove to the Grand Jury regarding the affair…
Thought this would of been a great opportunity..
I guess the most important question is that will we ever know?
john in sacramento @ 185
Sorry John, I was trying to say that he was not going to testify because a) some of it he cannot discuss w/o a court order, and b) some of it ABU won’t give himpermission to discuss.
chaboard @ 190
I’ve never read the litigation papers in this case, but I have heard there is some some agrument being made about “standing” to sue. Can’t give you any details, I haven’t read the docs
Looseheadprop-sensei, Marcy-sensei, Sara-sensei.
I’m sitting here like an idiot with tears running down my face. Thank you. Words fail.
My, my @ 191
I think you should read Sarah’s very nuanced comment a few slots upthread. It answers you question better than I can.
Sara, I am praying you are a Hill staffer in a position to affect this process!
looseheadprop @ 192
And if Abu were to be impeached… This is three-dimentional Vulcan chess.
HotFlash @ 194
If you really want to cry happy tears, read Muraay Wass’s newest for The Nation
looseheadprop @ 197
Or this - from TPM -
—————————-
Uh-oh. New from ABC …
New unreleased e-mails from top administration officials show the idea of firing all 93 U.S. attorneys was raised by White House adviser Karl Rove in early January 2005, indicating Rove was more involved in the plan than previously acknowledged by the White House.
The e-mails also show Attorney General Alberto Gonzales discussed the idea of firing the attorneys en masse while he was still White House counsel — weeks before he was confirmed as attorney general.
The e-mails directly contradict White House assertions that the notion originated with recently departed White House counsel Harriet Miers and was her idea alone.
Three lies and you’re out, Alberto.
Hotflash
And if Abu were to be impeached… This is three-dimentional Vulcan chess.
———————–
Oh yes, this is not a game for ametuers.
*xyz @ 188
Holy Sh*t.
NEWLY DISCLOSED E-MAILS SHOW THAT THE IDEA OF FIRING ALL 93 U.S. ATTORNEYS WAS RAISED BY WHITE HOUSE ADVISER KARL ROVE IN JAN. 2005
http://abcnews.go.com?CMP=EMC-1396
Hey EW — I see the witness grew by quite a bit…everything still cool schedule-wise?
Also see the CREW folks on top of the emails from non-government domains in the document dump. If you run into Melanie and gang, would you please point out there were many other domains in use earlier in the administration, particularly those belonging to the Bush-Cheney ‘04 campaign? The parody site WhiteHouse.org had gotten a few emails from folks that might also give clues about the domains in play.
Good stuff.
I second what Hotflash says. It’s a privilege to be around you people: Marcy, lhp, Sara. Many thanks to Jane and Christy for providing this forum.
Tithonia @ 203
Agreed.
Rayne @ 202
Please note this:
scribe @ 55
Sorry, didn’t catch my edit in time:)
LHP @ 192
I know. Wishful thinking on my part. I’m just not very articulate when I’m rushed or multi-multi-tasking ;-)
looseheadprop @
75
I think so too. Such a template has been written
A good thing has been done :-9
john in sacramento @ 185
I missed it and would very much like to see it if you find the link.
*xyz @ 197
Ruh-roh. TeddySanFran, did I not peg it? That was innoculation, that stupid, desperate Hail-Mary pass that Rover threw all by himself about “Clinton Did It” in Arkansas. He’d had to use this because HE was going to do it, too.
Rover tried to obstruct Fitz’ investigation. He tried to derail any further questioning he may have been facing.
It must be Springtime in America; man, is that the smell of pork barbecuing?
;-)
Neato!
My academic advisor told me I should have been a lawyer, but I can’t stand all of the detail work. Luckily I have you, Christy and all of the other legal eagles to do that for me.
Thanks Sara!
So, if I read this correctly, it’s like asking Fitz to play twenty questions with you. If you ask the right questions, the rewards could be significant.
Rayne @ 210
But Rove is a master manipulator and all around unethical guy. He’s going to throw someone under a bus. Or he will subtly threaten Bush into keeping him on until the whole ship sinks.
scribe @ 204
Yes, I saw that, that’s the article I was referring to when I meant CREW. But they are referring to the domains that appear in the document dump from Monday — and I am absolutely certain I saw emails in the Abramoff documents that Waxman released that contain domains other than RNC.org and gwb43.com.
Specifically, they were campaign-related domains; I think this makes some of what they were doing even worse, because their conspiracy can’t be readily separated from campaigning.
This means that Alberto probably gave a very narrow search request to whomever pulled document populations for the Fitz investigation, explaining that mysterious 12-hour head start the staff got.
And that’s what somebody needs to jump on — this is much bigger, goes back much farther.
Eureka Springs, AR @ 209
Here’s what she said.
Here’s where I cleaned it up a little to make it more aesthetic
And I’m googling Humphreys Executor which eventually leads you to Morrison v. Olson among other cases - which is also giving me a headache ;-)
By the way, looseheadprop, fabulous work.
I’m assuming I don’t need to push this any further at this time…let me know if you think we need more coverage.
Did anyone catch Roves talk shown on CNN today?
He looked and sounded very nervous, very unsettled, imo.
Well, I said at the time that Fitzgerald wasn’t going to handover stuff bc of all the constraints, but I can’t see any grounds for withholding, if requested (and I asked Waxman and others to request) the letter from Fitzgerald to Rove though.
Whether they get it from Rove or from Fitzgerald, it’s not classifed, it’s not GJ, it’s not work product, it’s not Exec Privilege or internal deliberations (at least, not once it leaves Fitzgerald’s hand to go to Rove’s lawyer). Is there some other grounds to withhold?
I’m hoping that Waxman goes into the whole NIE situation and that’s what I let him know as well. But he has to start with a targeted enough topic that they can structure round I.
john, tyvm..)
Mary4 @ 218
If I were to set up a private Google Group for key players to hash out tactics, are you game?
portia.vz @ 213
He’s painted himself into a corner, portia. There’s not any more bodies left.
Sara @
180
Thank you so much looseheadprop for directing me to Sara’s informative post—-
Let’s see if I have this correctly, Waxman’s investigation and it’s ultimate reformation of Government Operations can be considered ground work for multiple investigations.
Quite a tango, I’d say….
Rayne @ 210
Mary4 @ 219
Sorry to intrude, but are you “THE” mary? The original big-brain of FDL?
portia.vz @ 213
It’s also about following the letter and the spirit of the law. Grand Jury secrecy is one of our precious civil liberties. I’m glad Pat doesn’t treat like some annoying nuisance
Rayne @ 217
Someone (was it sara–I have been drowning in email about this and forget who told me what) but somewhere I read that former USA’s going back through several administrations have been burning up the phone lines and are gonna start kicking ass and taking names
Rayne, honey, I think you did it. You kept it going until the cavelry arrived.
We gotta get you a ceremony!
Mary4 @ 219
Damn! I left out the letter! thanks MAry
Jacqrat @ 225
This IS the amazing MARY
looseheadprop @ 229
YAAAY~ I am so glad to know you are here. The “4″ threw me off.
I am so damn happy we have y’all big brains (EW, Swopa, lhp, rayne, jane, christy, etc, etc) to help take our country back.
A BIG THANK YOU to all y’all. You all get KARMA HUNTER KUDOS today!
LHP - I saw somewhere upthread that you folks might put together a discussion group to work on this issue. I don’t have a lot of time to devote (still have mouths to feed etc), but know a few things about the law and would be happy to offer any assistance I could, Both Valley Girl and RBG have my contact info; feel free to use it if I can help in any way.
Yes, LHP — it was my post, 180 that referenced a program on Minnesota Public Radio this noon. It was an interview with two USA’s about the whole case, and the teleconferencing was described toward the end of the program. MPR Archives if you want to listen.
And no, I am not a Hill Staffer — just a retired History Teacher, with a long time interest in the power of Congress to investigate. (among many other interests.)
Jacqrat @ 80 said (in re tomorrow’s witness list):
I’d prefer to see Marcy sitting quietly behind Waxman, murmuring the Questions of Death-dealing Interrogation into his ear…
Probably EPU’d, but
Re the non government email addresses, and the possible connection w. the missing 250 emails in the Plame case: William Ockham just picked this up
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/002771.php
Can somebody please tell CREW that Karl Rove is doing it, too? kr@georgewbush.com. Check out the email that Domenici’s staffer sent. He cc:ed Rove.
Where can one watch the hearings tomorrow. I can not find the prior story which listed the site?
melfeasance @
148
Not even that. He was an Independent until he found out that was also a political party and not a “none of the above” category.
That was a great and very perceptive comment @180, Sara!
LHP — I haven’t seen this question asked, but wanted to know what in your view would be needed from a House inquirer to trigger the “judicial proceeding” threshold to get GJ info from Fitz (I assume he remains the custodian of the GJ files as long as the case is not final).
Would it be enough for Waxman, in a request to Fitz for GJ material, simply to invoke or refer to the House’s constitutional authority to impeach executive branch officers; or would he have also to say that his committee is properly and specifically engaged in an inquiry into executive branch activities in connection with Fitz’ inquiry, which could reveal potentially impeachable actions which could in turn produce a referral for impeachment by his Committee to House Judiciary; or do you think only House Judiciary (as the committee of jurisdiction for any potential impeachment proceedings) would have the authority to invoke “judicial proceedings” on behalf of the House?
I’ve got to run so I may get EPU’d here, but think a response could be useful for Waxman and Co. to frame their inquiries. Thanks!
Re: Getting Plame’s case thrown out:
looseheadprop @ 192
I think more colloquially it is the doctrine the monarch can do no wrong.
A government subject to casual lawsuits could not function.
Best, Terry
epu’d but
Does anyone else think that picture makes him look like a Vulcan?
Live long and Prosper!
Larry @ 234
from CSPAN:
Hearing on CIA Agent Valerie Plame Wilson’s Identity Leak (10am - est) - LIVE
Witness list for hearing tomorrow, (From the Congressional Oversight Committee):
Ms. Valerie Plame Wilson, former employee, Central Intelligence Agency
Dr. James Knodell, Director, Office of Security, The White House (invited)
Mr. Mark Zaid, Attorney
Ms. Victoria Toensing, diGenova & Toensing, LLP
The Committee on Government Oversight and Reform’s website lists this as the place to watch a live webcast of the hearing:
http://www.oversight.house.gov/
The Oversight Committee’s web page on this hearing is found at:
http://oversight.house.gov/story.asp?id=1205
terry hallinan @
238
Didn’t the Supreme Court bury that argument back in ‘97 or ‘98?
So, who at firedoglake is the “Lady in the Lake,” with hand rising above the shimmering surface, firmly wielding the sword Excalibur, bringing into the light that which was hidden, and smiting the liars and evil-doers in the name of truth, justice and the American way?