
Yesterday afternoon, The Kid started sniffling, and by evening it had grown into a steady nasal drip. Last night, we finished off the last of the bottle of his cherry-flavored medicine, and so this morning we opened a new bottle. "What flavor is it, Daddy?" he asked. "Grape," I told him, to which he replied, "But what kind of grape?"
When you live next to a winery, that's the kind of questions your kid will ask you. At least he didn't swirl the medicine in the cup, take a sniff and a sip, slosh it around in his mouth, and spit it out. Still, he's got a wine vocabulary that I did not have until much later.
More proof, I suppose, that everything is local.
Which brings me to Pat Tillman. He's local news out here, because of the family's Bay Area roots. Today's SF Chronicle carries this news on page A-8:
The Pentagon has completed an 18-month investigation into the friendly fire death of former pro football star Pat Tillman in Afghanistan and has scheduled an unusual series of simultaneous briefings later this month to reveal the findings.
The long-awaited report will be released March 26, the Defense Department said Tuesday, with congressional and media briefings in Washington at the same time as the Tillman family receives the report in San Jose.
[snip]
Release of the Pentagon report is scheduled just days after an expected House vote on Iraq war funding. Findings of a cover-up in the Tillman case could further embarrass an already embattled Bush administration.
Could further embarrass? I'd say it's a sure thing myself. We're talking about avoiding embarrassment by covering up a report on a coverup to avoid embarrassment. Yeah, that'll work.
Jane waxed eloquent on Tillman a year ago, raising a bunch of questions (reformatted here) that perhaps — perhaps — will get answered on the 26th:
The crassness of this just goes beyond my ability to express anger. . . . Of course there needs to be a thorough investigation into Pat Tillman’s death. We owe that to his family, and if gross negligence was involved, those responsible need to be held to account. That goes without saying. But those responsible for spinning out the lies to a grieving family — lies that they also fed to the public and the press in a close campaign season — need some exploration as well.
- Who gave the orders to silence the Rangers on the ground?
- Who gave the orders to burn Tillman’s gear?
- Who gave the orders to falsify information contained on Tillman’s Silver Star citation — because it now appears that some of the information in the chain of events does not match up with later stories?
- Who fed Tori Clark the information she spewed from the press podium at the DoD?
- Who fed it to Donald Rumsfeld?
- Did Rumsfeld order this to be propgandized — or did that come from the President’s campaign staff, including from Karl Rove?
- Who gave the orders to start all of this ass covering — up the line to the President of the United States?
- And who made the decision for the President to use Pat Tillman as a campaign prop in Arizona — when the taped message the President gave was a lie?
- And did the President know at the time that his lovely public words about a fallen American hero were nothing but lies — and gave the taped message anyway?
- If not, has anyone been held to account for feeding the President false information that he publicly stated about the Tillman matter — and if so, who has been held to account and by what means?
This feels just like the manufactured story they used for Jessica Lynch, a story which she lived to correct, much to her credit. But Pat Tillman is not here to speak for himself today — he was killed in the line of duty, in our nation’s uniform, and then had his government lie outright to his family — repeatedly through four separate botched investigations into his death.
Everything is local — even governmental coverups aimed at spinning the media.
And the timing? The military "has completed" the report, but it won't be delivered until the 26th? Maybe Nancy Pelosi ought to delay that vote on Iraq war funding until AFTER the Tillman family gets the report. If they could wait for years to get their report, the DOD can wait another couple of days to get their money.
Related posts:
- CIA IG Report to be Released June 19; More Torture Revelations Coming?
- David H. Koch’s Americans for Prosperity: Health Care Bill is “The Final Solution”
- Did GOP Know Joe Wilson Scream Was Coming?
- Interview With Barney Frank: Why He’s Switching His Vote on the Supplemental
- Healthcare Reform is Coming, Whether the AMA Likes It or Not





Spotlight








Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search

First!
You really think the Pentagon or WH are going to tell the truth on this one?
Here is the link to send Looseheadprop’s advice to Waxman’s office.
*here*
Thank you.
{{{{Pat Tillman – Rachel Corrie}}}}
Peterr!
And the other dead keep coming home silently, in the middle of the night, unseen, unacknowledged, unheralded, wept for by family, swept under the rug like so many other “mistakes that were made.”
On Monday, March 26, the country’s sportsminded citizens will have just been pickled in four straight days of Sweet 16 college basketball. The DoD could not have chosen a moment of greater distraction among people who know Pat Tillman’s faux story.
Man, they’re going to have to kill the #2 guy in Al Qaeda AGAIN in order to distract the media from this one. Are there enough Hollywood starlets who can die enough tragic, scandal-riddled deaths to smokescreen the criminal incompetence of the Bush Administration?
You can add Who stole Tillman’s journal?
looseheadprop @ 5
It’s the busy season in DC, don’t you think? Glad to see the help you gave folks on the last thread.
Pat Tillman’s death is the BIG turning point for AZ on support for the war. Tillman was a BIG hero and well thought of here. My college kids knew his friends from ASU and the Cardinals.
We have a memorial, an annual memorial event and even the wingers here really questioned BushCo when it comes to his death and the lack of facts.
Then you add the young woman who committed suicide because she would not participate in their interrogation techniques.
http://www.azdailysun.com/arti…..ews_30.txt
CNN – Senate votes 96-2 to approve resolution to support the troops.
On the Clock @ 7
Unless, of course, Arizona State University comes up in conversation, and some sports announcer happens to mention that it is Tillman’s alma mater. Then any attempt to hide it will have backfired. Big Time. (ahem)
These cover up people are all going to be rolling the same rock up and down the same burning hill in Hell FOREVER.
bingo
can you say highlight?
Still, he’s got a wine vocabulary that I did not have until much later.
why does your child support the terroir-ists?
epu’d but great news from the previous thread:
Yup, Pach and I are working on crashing the gates tomorrow. Still working on it, we shall see.
That and I’m meeting lots of nice interesting people.
Breaking news from ABC News:
NEWLY DISCLOSED E-MAILS SHOW THAT THE IDEA OF FIRING ALL 93 U.S. ATTORNEYS WAS RAISED BY WHITE HOUSE ADVISER KARL ROVE IN JAN. 200
Why, exactly, was there a cover-up? Friendly fire is not unheard of.
Is it possible that Mr Tillman was killed not by accident? Is it possible that his troops (or whoever) pulled a frazzing that went bad?
Would someone fill this in for me?
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 18
you’re such a tease
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 18
here’s the story
Oh please, oh please, oh please…
Nick Anderson cartoon on Halliburton/Cheney:
http://www.uclick.com/client/wpc/wpnan/
It’s krunch time Karl.
mweeheeheehee
bwahahaha
(jest in time to slime/hurt folks for the election, eh? January 2005)
le cochon.
“Further embarrassment?” It’s a scandal a day for the Bush regime. I hope the Tillman family soon gets the truth, which is the minimum they deserve after their son/husband/brother made the ultimate sacrifice for his country.
More details from ABC News:
E-Mails Show Rove Role in U.S. Attorney Firings
Fairfax @ 19
Most likely is that it was friendly fire, but in the early days of a less-than-popular war, the last thing the DOD/White House spin team wanted to deal with was a former NFL player turned ranger Poster Boy for the military getting killed by accident.
Much better for PR to have Tillman known as a dead hero than a dead mistake.
Elliott @ 20
I am? *g*
Why, exactly, was there a cover-up? Friendly fire is not unheard of.
Is it possible that Mr Tillman was killed not by accident? Is it possible that his troops (or whoever) pulled a frazzing that went bad?
Would someone fill this in for me?Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 18
this is no big deal. Staff turn-over at the beginning of an administration is standard practice.
“The e-mails directly contradict White House assertions that the notion originated with recently departed White House counsel Harriet Miers and was her idea alone.”
Oh, dear.
“standard practice” = never happened before?
Fairfax @ 19
Start here with Jane’s original post
Jane on Tillman
angie @ 24
We need to clone Congressman Waxman about fifty times to oversee all the investigations warranted by the Bush administration.
I’m thinking that a lot of DC media folks are going to be working overtime this weekend, what with Waxman’s hearings, the US attorneys mess, and everything else.
punaise @ 16
Because he loves playing in the dirt.
Elliott @ 32
thanks, E. I read Jane’s post, but it didn’t clear-up why a friendly fire was anathema as a cause for his death. I think Peterr may have cleared it up for me. I was thinking that there were more sinister reasons for not wanting to admit to friendly fire.
Why NOT cover it up? They create their own reality for everything.
Peterr @ 35
OK, enough Gallo’s humor.
Fairfax @ 29
It IS a big deal. This did not happen at the beginning of the Bush Mis-Administration but in the middle. For the most part, these USAs were appointed by Bush. Do you have any idea how many cases this would have disrupted?
And oh joy, Rove stuck in his thumb, but he didn’t pull out a plum THIS time…
It’s local to anyone who recognizes a true American patriot in stark contrast to the liars and thieves who started the war. Pat’s brother, Kevin, made a slightly more than local ripple on the blogosphere last year too: Remembering Pat
Fairfax @ 19
fragging
Brisingamen @ 39
I mes-read the initial post. I thought it said that Karl-baby suggested this in 2001. My bad.
Karl Rove is a – you know what! (feel free to fill-in the blank)
Fairfax @ 19
Ummm. I think you mean fragging, maybe?
Tillman was a fairly junior NCO, which would make him an unlikely target of fragging. Fragging is generally reserved for field-grade officers who spend the lives of their troops like a drunken sailor on shore leave.
It was friendly fire, which happens in combat. But for Bush’s Gang That Can’t Shoot Straight, an authentic NFL Hero was more useful than a guy who was in the wrong place at the wrong time and took several from his comrades-in-arms.
BC
Peterr@13 – ASU will not come up in any March Madness discussion unfortunately. Pathetic does not begin to describe our basketball program, although hopefully new coach Herb Sendek will turn it around. Also thanks for the Tillman post. I met him a few times at a restaurant in Tempe we both used to frequent. A really incredible, intelligent and thoughtful guy. He would have been absolutely killing the Bush Administration if he were alive today.
NEWLY DISCLOSED E-MAILS SHOW THAT THE IDEA OF FIRING ALL 93 U.S. ATTORNEYS WAS RAISED BY WHITE HOUSE ADVISER KARL ROVE IN JAN. 2005
http://abcnews.go.com?CMP=EMC-1396
To paraphrase Fitzgerald, to this administration, there are no people, only things to be pushed around to insure political power remains with them.
Valerie Plame Wilson is a person, and her outing ruined her professional life and endangered many other people with whom she worked.
Pat Tillman was a real person, and the coverup of his death has made life hell for his parents, family, and friends for lo these many years.
They are people, not things.
They are made of flesh and blood, not ink on a page.
raven @ 41
right. fragging. fragging gone bad.
frazzing is what Karl-baby does after a supper of quail wings, sausage, and beans.
Pat Tillman’s parents have stated they think it was covered up to protect recruiting efforts and to use the “he died heroically” angle instead of “he got blown up by his own men” to distract from the at-the-time recently broken Abu Ghraib story.
Bargain Countertenor @ 43
Field grade officers and dumb-ass butter bar LT’s with a compass!
Sorry Peterr, to OT on your thread
BUT but but
Could it be MORE EMAILS NOT ARCHIVED IN THE USUAL WAY?
Where is my fainting couch?
Peterr @ 46
Peterr, you must be a very very good pastor. I wish you were my pastor
In the Senate
SJ Res 9 The Reid resolution on withdrawal from Iraq by March 31, 2008 leaving only troops for training, border security, and anti-al Qaeda was defeated 48-50.
Republicans voting for:
Smith (R-OR)
Democrats voting against:
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Independent Democrats from Connecticut voting against:
Lieberman (ID-CT)
Not voting:
Johnson (D-SD) recovering
McCain (R-AZ) campaigning
“Pat Tillman was a real person, and the coverup of his death has made life hell for his parents, family, and friends for lo these many years.”
As Fitz would say, Pat Tillman is NOT an argument.
looseheadprop @ 50
On this one, no apologies are necessary.
And the same thing was going through my head: hmmm . . . wonder what other emails might be lying around?
What was it Fitz said? Something like “unless something new comes up. . .”
looseheadprop @ 50
AHA. Traitorgate might have just taken on a whole new dimension…
mc @ 53
Pat Tillman is the tip of the iceberg, no more or less important than any of these people be they a son, daughter, mother, father, Iraqi or American.
This may be getting ahead of the story, but if this report shows that the DOD and/or White House was playing games with Tillman’s death, the sh*tstorm from every military family who lost a loved one in the last 6 years is going to be something to behold.
If you thought Cindy Sheehan was something, just wait.
This is going to sound harsh, but the Pat Tillman story is just one in a long line of friendly fire incidents perpetrated by US troops on its own and on its allies.
The Sun, a conservative (yes really) tabloid in the UK, has been at the forefront of investigating a particularly egregious incident where US National Guard pilots shot up a British Army convoy. This story marked the real turning of conservative parts of Britain against the war and the Bush administration.
See for example this article.
Another article in the Guardian quoted a British soldier on the subject of US troops:
This story was probably not widely published in the US media.
Republicans and Democrats alike in the US fall over themselves to “support the troops” as they understand it. (Yellow ribbons or actual body armour respectively.)
But neither side will face the harsh truth that US troops are not just ill-equipped in terms of body armour and so on, but ill-trained and thus ill-disciplined for the purpose they are being deployed for. It is a flaw in the US’s basic imperial military culture. Sending National Guard and reservists for actual combat duty is nuts. Sending regular army personnel with the training and the culture that the US military perpetuates is not much better.
As a foreigner, it’s not for me to tell Americans how best to support their troops. But it seems to me a bit of honesty about these ostensibly brave and noble souls and the culture instilled in them would actually be supportive.
Moderator(s) –
If it’s possible, please edit my comments in which I mentioned breaking news from ABC: 2005 should appear where you see January 200. (No, Rove and those e-mails don’t go all the way back to the reign of Septimius Severus.) *g*
Fairfax @
19
Pat Tillman’s wikipedia article hits the high spots.
downunder girl @ 58
All the training in the world won’t prevent this stuff.
In more ways than just a few, every American killed in this war has been both misrepresented and fragged.
They’ve been misrepresented by the government and the media as “heroes,” yet their deaths are not about bringing “Democracy to the Middle East,” or about heroics. They are about protecting our assets there – oil, corrupt Arab regimes and Israel’s far-right regime.
They’ve been fragged by the neo-cons and Defense Department incompetents who see no purpose in equipping, training or backing up a military they deem to be of a lesser class in our society than they themselves represent.
Pat Tillman, whether or not he was fragged by his unit to keep him from publicly becoming a poster boy for a growing resentment in the ranks about the conduct of the war, WAS fragged by the perpetrators of this awful series of events.
Peterr @ 35
Because he had chocolate on his nose I gave him a flinty look.
OTOH
In the Senate
The other meaningless drivel S.Res 107 A resolution expressing the sense of the Senate that no action should be taken to undermine the safety of the Armed Forces of the United States or impact their ability to complete their assigned or future missions passed 96-2.
Voting against:
Corker (R-TN)
Hatch (R-UT)
Not voting:
Johnson (D-SD) recovering
McCain (R-AZ) campaigning
We need some great patriot to come forward and leak this stalled report ASAP
Raven,
I acknowlege that friendly fire incidents will happen. But read the stories. This was egregious. Part-time soldiers should not be put in these situations to begin with.
You do not see UK troops in Iraq creating friendly fire incidents at the same rate (proportionately) as US troops.
The same was true in the first Gulf War. The imperial US military culture is flawed, part of the same dysfunction as militaristic GOP mentalities.
DUG
downunder girl @ 66
FYI, in my opinion there were no better trained troops than the RAR in Vietnam:
Dr Bob Hall (Platoon Commander 12 Pl D Coy 8 RAR, Second in Command A Coy 8 RAR, author of Combat Battalion: The Eighth Battalion in Vietnam) is conducting research for the Defence Science and Technology Organisation (DSTO) into how and why friendly fire incidents occur in infantry combat operations, and would like to hear about friendly fire incidents that did not result in casualties. The aim of the study is to try and reduce the number of such incidents in the future.
We all know that for every incident that resulted in one or more casualties and was therefore reported and investigated, there were a number of incidents that were “near misses”, and therefore there is no file. If you were a witness to, or a participant in a “near miss” friendly fire incident, would you please complete the questionnaire below to the best of your recollection.
HotFlash @ 63
and when he scrapes his knee in December, Peterr applies, oh, tannin balm.
Nancy Pelosi will not delay the funding vote. She has converted in secret to the Republicrat party.
Friendly fire accidents happen.
Training accidents happen.
Covering them up, on the other hand, takes work.
A coverup takes sustained effort, by a number of people that grows exponentially with the fame/notoriety of the victim.
Tomorrow is the 4th anniversary of the death of Rachel Corrie in the Gaza Strip. The myths about her death are every bit as false or misleading as most information about Pat Tillman. This evening the Seattle Repertory Theater begins a run (with a weekend of preview performances) of the play “My Name is Rachel Corrie,” based on Corrie’s journals.
Had Tillman’s journals not disappeared immediately after his death, we might also be going to a play “My Name is Pat Tillman.”
Myths about Rachel Corrie are debunked here.
. looseheadprop @
51
Psychopaths never consider the rest of us as human beings..just tools to manipulate, and throw away like garbage.
punaise @ 68
You’re crushing me here.
downunder girl @ 66
In addition, as you know, Pat was not “part time” nor was he in Iraq. He was in a well trained ranger outfit that fucked up.
off topic but important for discussion concerning the attorney firings, this from the excellant site memeorandum;
so when the conversation goes to “they weren’t doing their job prosecuting voter fraud” the answer was, “yes, they were”
no defensiveness either, attack in response, always, “of course they were, do not forget there were NO reprimands for failure to perform, none”
Peterr @ 73
I’ll put a cork in it.
Peterr @ 70
Yes, it is the lie, the cover-up that is the real evil. As with BJGate. And possibly one instance more recently.
Fairfax @
19
They always cover up on friendly fire. It may or may not make you feel better to know they cover when Brits are killed as well. This week, the coroner (judge in charge)of the inquest (English enquiry into a non-natural death) on Corporal Matty Hull, complained bitterly that the US was refusing to release either the rules of engagement which applied or the findings of the investigation into why two National Guard pilots of A10s shot up a clearly marked British armoured convoy.
Peterr @ 73
Ding! and zig.
Dear raven,
Like I said, as a foreigner it’s not my place to push this too far. It’s a matter for Americans to resolve.
But I fail to see the relevance of a study to reduce friendly fire following the Vietnam war, to the current situation. RAR may have been the best troops then, but that doesn’t mean that Vietnam-era troops are better-trained then present-day RAR troops, or even present-day regular British troops. The UK military has learned a few things since then.
So there were some friendly fire incidents in Vietnam. They had inquiries on how to reduce the incidence of friendly fire, and adapted their training accordingly. So the best got better.
Contrast this with the refusal of US military top brass and civilian leadership to even admit that friendly fire is a problem.
Please understand that I mean this with great respect for this site and its regular commenters.
perris @ 75
oopps, I meant the side show, not memorandum
Chetnolian @ 78
I guess my suspicions come because this WAS a well-trained Ranger force. Rangers are those troops that are sharp-shooting, stealth-killing, grub-eating, belly-crawling, testosterone-oozing soldiers. They don’t make mistakes that stupid. Do they?
Speaking for myself only, I have four people whom I consider to be giants in my lifetime for fighting for peace in the Middle East. Only one remains alive, and that would be President Carter. The other three, Yitzhak Rabin, Rachel Corrie and Anwar Al-Sadat, are gone.
raven said:
Yes I know. But it should have been clear from my posts that I am referring to the incident where UK troops were shot up by pilots who were not regular troops, they were reservists. According to the Sun article, the pilots in question had never been in action before. Clearly their pre-action training was insufficient.
I implore you to read the articles I linked to.
Peterr @ 27
That excuse only works for the first investigation. What’s the excuse on the last 2?
Sorry again Peterr, but Lotus sent this to me and it’s jsut too good not to share
The e-mails also show Attorney General Alberto Gonzales discussed the idea of firing the attorneys en masse while he was still White House counsel — weeks before he was confirmed as attorney general.
The e-mails directly contradict White House assertions that the notion originated with recently departed White House counsel Harriet Miers and was her idea alone.
Two independent sources in a position to know have described the contents of the e-mail exchange, which could be released as early as Friday. They put Rove at the epicenter of the imbroglio and raise questions about Gonzales’ explanations of the matter.
Hee hee
Whoever is on Mod duty my comment in moderation is NOT the entire article. It is a fai use except and includes the author’s name
looseheadprop @ 86
Hee hee
MSNBC broke into Hardballs with Schumer talking about this. With any luck and due diligence, Karl is going down,
I want my party to cut off funding for Iraq. I want my party to prevent Bush from attacking Iran or starting any other unprovoked wars. And I want a fair and just settlement to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. And I want these things soon.
I’m curious as to whether any other media outlets picked up on this story, as the SF Chronicle did. As far as I can tell, they and the San Jose Mercury News are the only places that have this story.
Yet.
Anyone seen it elsewhere?
LHP –
Got any more magnums laid down, ready to open?
I do not want members of my family, in the Army ,serving in Iraq, to die for the egos of Bush or Hillary.
FINALLY, we may GET Karl Fucking Rove!
I want him to go down so hard his ancestors feel it.
RevDeb @ 88
add to that this from the side show to help the story along and suffer their pitiful talking points;
perris, linky?
Peterr @ 91
I think it may be time to go to the wine store my friends
Joe may get to see his frogmarch dream come true yet!
See yah later pups have to go to a parent teacher conference
so is this really curtains for Rove? he’s always managed to squeak through one way or another…
SO looking forward to St. Henry’s hearing tomorrow. CSpan1 is planning on televising it. selise, Kathryn and I will be on the threads having fun with it. Scarecrow will join us when he can. FUN time!
looseheadprop @ 96
grape minds think alike
perris @ 75
Good post. That is exactly what this is all about. Voter suppression is the real goal and the real fraud.
I live in Washington state and the local RNC chair (Vance) was in constant contact with Rove during the close governor election, as was the shrill bastard behind the RNC-supporting Building Industry Association. Both were fuming because the local USAtty (MacKay) didn’t consider their evidence of voter fraud solid. They wanted to throw out tens of thousands of votes. Took it to a trial in a heavily Republican County, and still lost the case. Rove agreed that that the USAtty should have supported the RNC suppression effort – and that’s exactly why he ultimately got him fired.
It’s so Rovian to do something, while simultaneously pinning it on the other guys, such as:
Accuse Iraq of being a threat us.
Accuse Kerry of being a war coward.
Accuse Democrats of subverting democracy.
I hope the breaking ABC article about the emials is true. I hope Rove goes down for having lied about the Atty firings.
I really don’t care any more what gets him!
GSD @ 103
The reason I think this is because Rove used the point in his defense today. “Bill Clinton canned 123 attorneys”…Nothing to see here…..a clean sweep, not a targeted attack on those USA’s that were getting too close to the Bush Family Crime Machine or unwilling to politicize their decidedly non-partisan jobs.
-GSD
looseheadprop @ 96
The Kid and I may just stroll down the street and see what our neighborhood vinter has on sale ourselves.
RevDeb @ 100
What time will this start tomorrow? I’m setting my alarm.
Funny thing – Jay Carney On MSNBC talking about the USA scandal – didn’t he say us liberals were blowing the significance of the firings out of proportion?
Bitch.
Got any more magnums laid down, ready to open?
magnum Opus 1, only $999. such a deal!
If the Bush/Rove were really concerned about “voter fraud” why did they not push for an investigation of Florida?
-GSD
TeddySanFran @ 105
10 am EDT. I’ve got the popcorn and cocktail weenies ready.
RagingGurrl @ 106
He did apologize to Josh Marshall, but I want him to apologize more.
-GSD
Somewhat OT, but for those who were pleased abt the Waas article TPM Muckraker now has this up from Paul Kiel
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/002777.php
Following up on National Journal’s story earlier today, House Judiciary Chairman John Conyers (D-MI) sent a letter (pdf) to Alberto Gonzales asking him to respond to the story’s allegation:
YAY! These guys must be having oversight whiplash!
GSD @ 110
He did? Where can I read it? And was he on his knees when he typed it?
Bitch.
:-)
Peterr @
90
I skimmed through something a few days ago, but can’t remember where … probably The Chron
This is another story that you may have seen, cover-up again by the WH.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6453365.stm
British “friendly fire” victim Matty Hull’s widow has appealed to US President George Bush to help find out the truth about her husband’s death.
1,455 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Peterr and the Firepup Patriots:
Over the course of the last five years I have had to find different strategies to deal with the constant pain this war has inflicted on my heart. Involvement with FDL and local political action have been my primary survival tactics but there are certain subjects which raise the hurt beyond my threshold of tolerance. The Pat Tillman tragedy is one such, so please allow me to unload. Maybe I ken find a space for jest a bit of the grief and maybe the telling will fuel some righteous anger that can help power the arrows of justice which need to fly swiftly into the heart of the malignant beast that oppresses us all and continues to kill thousands as we speak.
When it was first exposed that Tillman’s death was “friendly fire” and that there was a cover-up, there were several days of discussion here on FDL about all things involving war and military and morality and justice and the meaning of Pat’s death. As usual, the discussion was intelligent, heartfelt and meaningful. During the course of the conversation however, many folks began to get a real charge from discussions of ordinance and rules of engagement and the technology of battle. (Cujo, are you there?) There were those who in their desire to make sense of Pat’s death, even tried to make a distinction between “accidental death” and death as a result of combat. At the time, I made the statement that in war there are no accidents, every death is the result of the war and actions taken in response to war. I’m not certain that I made myself clear or that I adequately expressed the truth that the confluence of my experience with war and Pat’s death exposed for me. So let me try once more.
Pat Tillman died a soldier, doin’ what soldiers do. His death was just a piece of the ongoing tragedy of war and was neither more nor less unnecessary or tragic than the hundreds of thousands that have died in this conflict. There is no morality in war and there are no good or just wars. There may be arguments for necessary wars but we must never succumb to the temptation to justify the war or the deaths in any latticework of moral reasoning. Pat’s death has meaning only insofar as it exposes us to the truth about war and only insofar as it commands our actions to end the war.
All the deaths in this conflict are but a piece of the larger horror that has been inflicted on us by the corporatists, militarists and profiteers. Ending this conflict in Iraq will not end the war…I am convinced that if there is a God, she has given us this one more chance to get it right. We must do what was not done after 1975, we must eradicate the war criminals from our social order and we must bring our not insignificant power to bear with the rest of the world to rid the planet of the forces that cultivate and feed on war and death.
That is the meaning of Pat Tillman’s death, that’s the message, if we don’t heed it this time we won’t have another chance.
KEEP THE FAITH, THE ONLY ONES WE CAN SAVE ARE THE CHILDREN…WE ARE BEYOND REDEMPTION!!
Attn., Raging: Here’s the Jay Carney apology to Josh Marshall you mentioned…
http://time-blog.com/swampland…..s_due.html
beautiful, Norske.
Thank you.
;(
With all this sh*t going down with Karl, Gonzalez, Miers, etc., it really might shift the pardon dynamic for Libby.
Libby is betting a couple years of his life in jail on the fact that the Bush administration has the political capital and will to pardon him.
As scandal after scandal engulfs the White House, the likelihood of this bet paying off has got to be altered.
Scooter – there’s still time to cooperate…
NorskeFlamethrower @ 116
And yet, your eloquent words and your obvious anguish would lead me to disagree with your last sentence. You wouldn’t be here if you believed “we are beyond redemption” — and neither would the many of the rest of us.
Keep on keepin’ on, Norske!
Excellent Norske.
Peterr…for sniffles and colds (I raised three daughters) I always used powdered slippery elm mixed with honey. Make a paste, eat it by the spoonful or pour hot water over the paste and serve as a tea. Kids love this mixture it really taste great and breaks up mucous. I am one of those people who only believes in herbs when I witness them work.
Norske: Amen. Beautifully said.
OT: For people who want to see exactly how REAL NEWS is done, check out this video podcast by Air America’s Rachel Maddow.
NEWS PEOPLE WHO BROWSE FDL: More of this, please!
The Bush adminstration feel embarassed (that would imply having a conscience). Impossible for psychopaths.
OT again, and EPU’d on a previous thread, where there was some discussion of where the missing Plame emails might have got to:
Re the non government email addresses, and the possible connection w. the missing 250 emails in the Plame case: William Ockham just picked this up
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/002771.php
Can somebody please tell CREW that Karl Rove is doing it, too? kr@georgewbush.com. Check out the email that Domenici’s staffer sent. He cc:ed Rove.
righteous, Norske.
Pat Tillman and all his fellow GI’s did not have to perish in Iraq. I am really angry.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 18
Rove needs to be… [Mod Note; Comment edited to remove reference to an act of violence directed toward a public official.]
Norske,
you said it better than I ever could. But I agree with Peterr, there are some glimmers of hope, not as much as I would like to see, but keep the faith.
*xyz @
119
Bang!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 89
Ditto!
The members of my party, the Democrats, who voted to let Bush have his way in Iraq have much blood on their hands. And I will be damned if I’ll forget this.
CD @
117
Arghy. I just spent too much time over at TPM trying to find that….thanks though.
-GSD
CD @
117
Thank you.
I don’t know if anyone else has read this, but it’s a very good article on Pat Tillman from Sports Illustrated
and that pups, is why Norske is in the FDL pantheon. (Where’s Sharkbabe been anyway?)
Conyers Letter to Gonzo: Link
GSD @ 133
Thank you too anyway :-)
Fairfax @ 112
Let’s hope so. It’s about time!
Can I just say that I love it when bad things happen to bad people?
Heh, I got burned out on popcorn during Scootergate so I got some Fritos.
Cue the heartburn in 3….2….1…
Gonna have to find something else.
RG,
Gracias.
-GSD
Norske, as always a ray of light and the cold slap of truth.
please don’t give OTC cough or any type of medicine to a child. There are more and more reactions causing major nervous disorders due to their untested and unintended effects.
sorry, but they are harmful. I don’t want to assume that this is what you are giving them, but honestly, look into the problems with this. Some teenagers get high chugging these “medications” and statements without qualification like this are dangerous
just my two cents, as I have a young friend that went through 12 weeks of hell due to cough syrup poisoning
*xyz @ 140
yes.
Pups, downundergirl has been commenting about the play over the friendly fire attack on british convoy. She gave several article cites. i have seen the cockpit video of the whole fiasco, though i can’t imagine how that was released. (perhaps it involved the british courts, but that still wouldn’t explain the release.) i don’t have a cite.
But the video was chilling, because the guard pilots knew exactly what they’d done afterwards. You can hear them going “oh shit.” and more.
These are only incidents in the real story. The real story is the horror from so many angles unleashed by the bush war criminals.
Fairfax @
82
I think it was Jessica Lynch all over again: the desire to create an instant hero to get the public rah-rahing about the war effort.
Cat Stevens* – Tea for the
TilmanTillermanBring tea for the tillerman
Steak for the sun
Wine for the women who made the rain come
Seagulls sing your hearts away
cause while the sinners sin, the children play
Oh lord how they play and play
For that happy day, for that happy day
*yes, that one
downunder girl @
80
My point was that it happens to every Army and the study was simply cited to reinforce that point.
Pat Tillman was killed by “friendly fire.” What a bunch of twisted hogwash! Pat was killed, it was a very serious and brutal mistake, not “friendly fire”.
When you threaten to destroy everyone, over and over again, sometimes they begin to fight back.
Bush and Rove have abused too many people and destroyed too many people. From Val and Joe Wilson, to John Kerry, to Paul O’Neill the list is long.
Schumer also revealed that the emails leaked today came from a disgruntled Bush administration official. “One of the reasons everything is getting out here is that there are people, particularly in the Justice Department, who have been so disgusted with what’s happening that information is getting out,” Schumer said. “And I think the White House and the Justice Department know it’s gonna get out whether they release it or not.”
-GSD
“there rides a peace train
Oh peace train take this country,
come take me home again”
Wonder what we’ll be discussing this time next year.
NorskeFlamethrower @
116
Glad you are back bro.
GSD @ 151
The names on the list number in the trillions.
Schumer: White House Holding ‘Active And Avid Discussion’ Over Gonzales Resignation
Crazy Horse @
146
I believe this tape was “leaked” too. There are thousands and thousands of honorable, decent and dedicated Americans in the armed forces and in the public sector who are tired of being played and are tired of seeing America ruined for the simple vanity of 3 men.
-GSD
*xyz @ 154
Ooops. I meant billions.
new thread up by Phoenix Woman: “But Clinton Did It Toooooo” Uh, No He Didn’t
twolf1 @ 155
I think Murray Waas’s article and the new e-mail dump has done in Gonzo. Conyers is one pissed off guy right now. Caught in more lies that can be explained away and dragging KKKarl into the middle of it again. Back to Texas for Gonzo.
punaise @
76
Stop wining. Nobody likes a cru baby.
david baerwald @ 159
that’s the lees you can do.
sorry, mod(s)
Remember this one….Gen. Petraeus and a High-Profile Suicide in Iraq
Col. Ted Westhusing, a West Point scholar, put a bullet in his head in Iraq after reporting widespread corruption. His suicide note — complaining about human rights abuses and other crimes — was addressed to his two commanders, including Gen. David Petraeus, now leader of the U.S. “surge” effort in Iraq. It urged them to “Reevaluate yourselves….You are not what you think you are and I know it.”
By Greg Mitchell
(March 14, 2007) — The scourge of suicides among American troops in Iraq is a serious, and seriously underreported, problem, as this column has observed numerous times in the past three years. One of the few high-profile cases involved a much-admired Army colonel named Ted Westhusing.
punaise @
162
The mods asked me to let you know that as long as it’s about zigfandel…it’s cool.
oldtree @ 144
There are a lot of old ones that have been tested ages ago. Some of the new ones i’m leery about. But the issues with it mostly come with bad dosing. When you don’t consult a pharmacist on exactly how much to give a small child, you risk overdosing and the toxicity effects that cause so much grief. Dosing is not something you guess at. It’s all the difference between helping a symptom and an accidental poisoning. Other reactions are from not checkign to see if there’s a reason for the reaction. IE: Other medications and allergies. Some are truly unexpected but i think said reactions are rare. Very rare. It’s not a reason to cut out something that might actually ease a painful cough.
I’m not naysaying natural remedies, i’d use them if i had better knowledge of them. But i don’t. So i go with what i know, and use it wisely.
Sorry to go OT, but i had to say my piece.
GSD @
156
Somebody leaked for sure. The timeline goes like this. The British MoD said for months that there was no tape. Then they admitted there was but refused to let the Coroner see it. Then the Sun, a Murdoch paper believe it or not, got the tape somehow (we don’t know where from)and let everyone see it. It played on prime time TV. My reaction was to feel heart sorry for the pilots, who had clearly been told from the ground that there were no friendlies there.
Then it gets really odd. The Coroner was allowed to see it and show it to the family of Cpl Hull IN PRIVATE.The US Govt. said it could still not be seen in open court, tho’ the world and his wife had seen it on TV.
Is anyone listening to the telephone interview of a nine year old Canadian child on the phone from inside a prison?
edit: on Democracy Now
oldtree @
144
All done under the care of an extremely medically-conservative pediatrician, according to the recommended dosage. Teenagers getting high off of cough syrup (and sufferring poisoning) comes from major doses, not from following the directions on the box. No chugging around this house (of cough syrup, wine, or anything else), and it’s not given at the first sign of every little sniffle.
But thanks for your concern.
The reports are scheduled to be released on March 26, which happens to be a Monday. If the news were truly, awfully bad for the Army, wouldn’t they release it on a Friday?
GSD @ 150
From my humble point of view..besides the deaths of our children and the deaths of Iraqi citizens, we as a people have have not been subjected to the physical violence to our persons, but have been subjected to an abuse of our psychological well being in a very real damaging manner. The sadness at what we see and hear is tremendous, our frustration, our seeming inability to stop this madness takes a very great toll on our psyche, what makes it bearable for me is reading and writing and taking whatever small action I can take.
Thanks
I thank Pat Tillman for opening my eyes to a whole politcal system of corruption. I have avoided listening to the news most of my adult life, until Pat Tillman’s death and cover-up. Now I read whatever I can. Thank you FDL.
Sometimes I just want to open my handbag and throw up in it!
I can hear the White House spin on Pat Tillman’s death now:
Pat Tillman died in Afghanistan, on a dark and stormy night, in hand-to-hand combat with Osama bin Laden.
Hey, it’s just as plausible as the initial lie spun by the White House about Pat Tillman’s death, while the info-gangsters in the White House desperately sought to cover-up that they were lying, going so far as to lie to Pat Tillman’s family about the circumstances surrounding his death in Afghanistan.
The “culture of corruption” Republicans in the White House have proven time and again that they will lie about anything and everything, with their telling the truth representing a rare cold day in hell…like never.
RBG @
164
cheers!
Brilliant Pace and this piece, Peterr. Just so well done. I’ve been otherwise occupied, and it does my heart good to read you and this writing upon returning. (no hypen beween adverbs and adjectives, however, medically conservative) Keep on it; you’re inspriring. Thank you.
Verdict in the inquest on the death of Corporal of Horse Matty Hull, the videoed British friendly fire incident, is just in. “Unlawful killing”.