No other quote sums up the Republican attitude towards government more perfectly, not even Cheney's other one (you know which). For them, governing is not a responsibility, it's not a duty, it's not a service. It's a reward for winning. Republicans look at the American government, at the prodigious capabilities and resources it has built up over the past 200+ years, and all they can think about is how to use it to their own advantage. How they can reward their friends, settle scores with their enemies, and consolidate power so they can go on partying forever. It never even occurs to them that the government was designed for other purposes, like looking out for the disadvantaged, or protecting the environment, or catching criminals.
These functions are all extraneous nonsense to the Republicans, which is why they're such believers in small government. They want to get rid of everything that's not part of the Department Of Giving The Republicans Everything And Then Some, so they can use the savings for top-bracket tax cuts, corporate welfare, and just-in-case-the-Soviets-come-back weapons systems. Sure, sometimes the DOGTREATS ends up being even bigger than the entire federal government used to be, but at least it's efficient. Plus it really pisses off the liberals.
The US Attorney firings are a perfect example of this Republican mentality at work. Except for the one pushed aside to make room for Rove's buddy, they were all fired solely because they weren't on board with the Republican plan, and wanted to actually prosecute cases according to the law, or some such nonsense. Obviously, zero tolerance is the only sensible policy here, because if you're not using the weight of the federal government to protect Republicans and cast suspicion on Democrats (and possibly manufacture a "Democrat Voter Fraud" narrative), then you're stealing from your employer.
I may be hopelessly naive (sunny optimist that I am), but I really do believe that this is a fundamental difference between Republicans and Democrats. For all their flaws, the Democrats genuinely do believe that the government is supposed to work for everyone's benefit, not just their own. Sure, the Democrats have their share of corrupt looters and pro-corporate assholes, but their core principles and policies are still more people-oriented than money-oriented. They just need to figure out how to turn eight years of material into the underlying narrative of the 2008 elections – something like: "Republicans believe the government works for them; we believe it works for you." And for God's sake, stop worrying about the 40% who want us to stay in Iraq, and start worrying about the 60% who want us to leave.



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Jane! Eli!
Well, not quite…
Late again.
They hate us for our freedoms. They hate our troops. They hate America.
Just saying.
Nice post, Eli. When I think about how close we came to having two more years of no oversight, it is really frightening.
brownandserve @ 5
Yep. Lack of oversight is as scary to us as oversight is to them.
“It’s a reward for winning.”
Wow Eli, you just hit the nail on the head with that one. Precise. Pithy. And oh-so-true.
Head’s up. Meme! Needs to be repeated.
This quote from Luke 12:38 was quoted by John F. Kennedy..
Does this sound like ANYTHING we would hear from the lips of Dubya?
Great work, Eli!
Wow, Eli! You got it exactly right.
bookwoman @ 8
With great power, comes great responsibility. – Spiderman’s Uncle Ben
Eli!
greetings from the other side of the parkway.
that clip always makes my eyes bug out of my head. i have to push them back in before i start foaming at the mouth and get them all covered with slobber.
Thanks, all. This is one of those things that’s bugged me for a long while now. The Attorney firings were just the latest manifestation of it.
Hiya, SH! It’s Bush in a nutshell. It may have been said in jest, but it couldn’t have been truer.
Eli @
6
Kind of a new axiom, wouldn’t you say?
Are there different hues of Republicans and Democrats?
Jane Hamsher @ 15
We just need to grind it for a while.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 16
Absolutely. But you’ll find a lot more Democrats than Republicans who believe government is for everyone.
It’s not the 40% (actually probably more like 30%) who want us to stay in Iraq that too many Dems worry about. It’s the 100% of corporate interests that finance their campaigns that they worry about.
There is only one way to fix this broken clusterfuck, and that is clean money campaigns via public financing. Of course those who now finance campaigns will fight this tooth and nail, because if it happens their influence will be severely eroded. This will be a tough fight, but it needs to be fought or everything else we champion will be undermined. Just look at the Iraq votes, or wonder why we do not have a single payer national health system which 70% of the public supports.
I’m not a big Obama fan, and certainly not ready to jump on his bandwagon but he did catch my interest when responding to a question about whether he would stick to spending limits in order to get matching funds, he brought up public financing, and said if he did decide to go over the limits like Hillary it was because the financing system was inadequate and only total public financing, which he would support although he thought it did not have much of a chance of passing, would solve the problem.
This is interesting. I recently heard an historian comparing the Kennedy and Bush clans. The similarities are more extensive than you might think (New England digs, Ivy League, old money from dubious dealings, politics, etc. Note, the Texas thing is a sham…)
The major difference can be summed up thus: one family has a “sense of duty” and the other a “sense of entitlement”. Guess which is which…
Eli,
I mostly lurk here (and deeply appreciate the smart, funny, and insightful writing of all front pagers, and belated kudos on the mindblowing Libby croverage) but had to comment on your posting tonight: I’ve been discussing this very subject with friends lately. I think this goes to the fudamental heart of what distinguishes the two parties, and why I, for one, could only be a Democrat. I believe absolutely that the goverment is here to serve us ALL, not just members of some exclusive club. Thank you for presenting the case so eloquently.
Are Republicans and Democrats the same as they were in, say the 60’s and 70’s?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 16
ok this is a crappy comment on my part, but, i like to think that republicans come in all the many colors of excr*ment.
Eli @ 17
Can a sharp axiom chop up a talking point?
Morris Sheppard @ 19
I was sure it was 30-70, but the most recent polls I could find were more like 40-60, so I decided to be conservative… so to speak.
I agree with you completely about campaign financing, of course. Democrats want to get elected, sure, but they want to have it both ways: get elected *and* please their corporate donors.
Or else they believe that pleasing their corporate donors is the only *way* to get elected, because money = votes and no other factors matter.
I’d forgotten that Ted Strickland was giving his State of the State address today until someone mentioned it in a previous thread. I just found a link to the text of it if anyone is interested.
Have you seen Fitz’ letter to Waxman?
“http://www.ohio.com/mld/beacon…..902460.htm”
ok, last time i am posting this, so be relieved, have never done such an annoying thing before……..wish you all could have heard the audio. what he said was soooooooooo important, i couldn’t believe my own ears………….please get him as a guest on fdl………
here goes, last time;
i promised myself that i would do this, and it is past my bedtime, so:
i know i am risking being a thorn in the side, but these issues right at home, in our own states, are the ones that matter, too…..i wish you all could have heard the speech from the new democratic governor of ohio, ted strickland, oh my how inspiring, please find it on the web..i will quit after posted for everyone to see for 24 hours, really…ha ha..please just bear with me, was really big here……
epu’d for 24 hours====
jane;
i completely believe that things are coming back around to a new day. have felt that way since jan ‘04……
my dad is a retired corporate acct-fdr dem, even people he knows are jumping the republican ship…..and they are way invested in the bush warship…..jumping ship, one by one….
and i am being annoying to get the positive word out—–
i promise this is a one time thing, and i keep promises…..
but am reposting this for an entire day and then i will stop…and am sending funds as soon as i get my reimbursement check…paypal will be hit soon……
((((fdl))))
egregious @ 191
dmac—
Am from Ohio and am so happy to hear the new governor is great!
I heard somewhere it’s only possible to post something once a thread, re your wanting to post it over and over. Does anyone know about that, am just going on gossip here.
A toast to a true progressive governor!! Hip hip hooray!!!!
me back
yeah, i remember you commenting about your mum being here in ohio, almost commented, but didn’t…..and i was only going to post in a little bit aggravating way, once a post, for a day’s cycle, so everybody can know that it can happen, change that is……not to be annoying, but to know that the hard work of people pays off..and this was a hard fought battle for ted strickland to win in this state….that’s all….it’s going to affect a lot of people…..not from any one class, but everyone, which is what it’s about….
i’ve seen people repost things off-topic and rant here and there, mostly angry moments–well, i’m in an ecstatic moment and really need to shout from the rooftops…..and have been all day to all my friends and family!!!!!!!!
FINALLY, A GOOD THING IN OHIO!!!!!!!!!! man, oh man, did we need it.
i wish i could explain what a big deal it is—we have had a governor, bob taft, yeah, you’ve maybe heard of him……he is worse than what you heard, he has dismantled our state over 8 years, in horrific ways, with the help of a republican legislature….it has been dark here…..
BUT NOT ANYMOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRE!!!!!!!!!!!!
SO, EXCUSE MY RANT, but i really need to let people know, that yes, it can happen in your state……a good thing….can happen.
and this is only a highlight of the speech, also is freezing college tuition, and a long list of other things…..and he’s wantin’ to make it worth the republican’s ‘while’ to do it…..
here’s a letter i sent to my mom–part of which i posted earlier today—i am so excited with what’s FINALLY goin’ on in our state………wow
hi mom;
today’s subject is politics=======
did you hear the governor’s state of the state speech????????
oh mom, it was wonderful………see if you can find it on the web and listen to it……..when he was done, i was overwhelmed, really, had tears in my eyes………
i wish everyone could have heard OUR new OHIO GOVERNOR ted strickland’s state of the state speech!!!!!
every child in ohio gets health coverage up to age 21
family of 4 making 62,000 gets medicaid–that’s those at 300% of poverty level, those earning above that but with no health coverage can buy into medicaid coverage…
pregnant women at 150% get coverage
anyone age 65 and older and disabled don’t pay property taxes on first 25,000—that’s 1 in 4 people
adding to program that allows elderly to stay in their homes instead of going into nursing homes….
significantly adding to preschool programs—which were almost nonexistant thanks to taft in office…..said where you start out in life and where yuo go to school shouldn’t determine where you end up in life….. said that a few times in his speech.
ending vouchers, freezing charter and for profit charter schools….
tobacco settlement money going into schools…infrastructure and general funds== that’s 5 billion there.
almost a billion into alternative energy projects… 250 mil a year…..
break for businesses that provide training for untrained young workers..
expanding training for older workers and offering training to make it more accessible, i.e. location and time of day offered…
too many things to list…
is offering carrots to republican majority legislature to get policies changed…..
basically is already undoing what taft did…has been dismantling many many things since he took office..i know that cuz i’ve been following it, that part wasn’t in today’s speech, unless you read between the lines..
and adding on more changes for working poor…..and middle class that don’t want to say they’re poor-but they are and struggling. mostly because of health care, took care of that one listed above…
i can’t articulate what a pleasure it was to hear him coming over the airwaves, i have tears in my eyes…..really….
i knew he was for real, but was waiting to hear what his plans are..and if he really had any………boy does he, has surrounded himself with some really smart people….
please take a moment one day and listen to his speech, it was incredible.
forgot one of the best things in the speech=
people who are officially on medicaid-disabled/mentally/wheelchairs, etc., can now work without losing their medicare….this is one main reason keeping people down and limited financially, who are disabled but can work, if they work, they lose their benefits===now can work and keep coverage….
wow
now, when this stuff hits the state legislature, people are gonna need to be writing letters in support of all of these things…..many people need these programs…..so, get ready to write……..
wow, still can’t believe what i heard on the radio, live, it wasn’t taft and it wasn’t some democrat blowhard with good things to say but who doesn’t have a plan……..he’s definitely an organized, smart man……..finally………
love,
dayna
O-K @ 22.. NO..All of the sane Republicans were purged and the Dems lost the racist/segregation wing to the Repubs. It was very painful the see Democrats filibustering equal rights laws in the 50’s and early 60’s.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 22
I don’t think so. My mom was a Republican, Eisenhower all the way. She was upset by Nixon and I am sure she’d not ondone what is going on now. She had a strong sense of right and wrong, I learned it from her.
kemo @ 20
That’s it right there. I was also struck by the difference between Bush and Kerry (and probably would have been by the difference between Bush and Gore if I had been a bit more tuned in at the time).
I’m not the world’s biggest Kerry fan, but there is absolutely *no* doubt in my mind that he is in government out of a desire to serve, and it’s sad that that was not obvious (or relevant) to everyone.
Oh, and thanks, kokoro! I am honored to be the vehicle of your delurkitude!
Class war!
Let’s rumble.
HotFlash @ 30
Goldwater wouldn’t have much use for these creeps.
http://www.ohio.com/mld/beacon…..902460.htm
And Repugnicans believe government doesn’t work, then when they get elected, they set about proving it. Hence the destruction of our entire form of government as we knew it.
TeddySanFran @ 32
Uh, I’m class of ‘67. Who am I fighting?
What are the traits (ideology or philosophy)of ‘mainstream’ Democrats? That is, what do ‘mainstream’ Demos advocate? Who are good examples of ‘mainstream’ Democratic politicians?
From a diary over at KOS
UPDATE: Edwards campaign evacuates due to White Powder.
Ann in AZ @ 35
I think they’re being disingenuous. The government works just fine for *them*.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 37
Ok, OKK, here’s a challenge for you. You tell us. You like to ask us questions. Now, you respond to your own question. ;)
Where does the DLC fit into all this?
in some ways, it’s the same old: “all about the money, stupid.” Except, with Bush I it was the taxes that he begrudgingly had to increase, for Clinton’s it was his ability to balance a budget and keep the economy ticking over — but for this crowd, it’s the blank check syndrome. It’s the “well, some other schmuck’s kid is payin’” approach to spending. And this is from the very party that has always claimed to “own” the fiscal responsibility mantra. Of course, history has shown that they’re notoriously the biggest spenders and the most fiscally irresponsible of the two parties, and that the economy in fact does better, on average, with a Dem. at the helm.
But it is glaring how this bunch have simply considered the coffers theirs, and have assumed that the American tax payer’s hard-earned money was somehow just loose change that they could squander on various insane project (”reshape the middle east”, “faith-based initiatives”, “tax cuts for the ol’ boys,” etc.)
Even with current abysmal approval ratings it’s not immediately clear that the average GOP’er is revolting for anything more than the dismal failure that is Iraq. Are they as pissed off about the fact that the country has been laden with debt so thick it’ll take generations to deal with it, while our infrastructure and basic services have been ignored or phased out to pay for it all?
actually on a very basic level, the fact that most of these yahoos haven’t worked for what they’ve gotten, either at a real job or in the military to defend it, is the foundation not only of their supreme sense of entitlement, but also their incredible short-sighted incompetence.
it’s true that you value what you work for far more than what is given to you. and you know more about how the world really works, too.
and my new mantra in the ok kiddo style==
only thing that could make me happier is to hear that gore has finally decided to kick some asses colored red…….and finally use that brain that he has to take no prisoners…..
g’night all, bedtime
thanks for puttin’ up with my elation
Oklahoma kiddo @ 41
Club of purchased Democrats?
Oklahoma kiddo @
22
I would say at bedrock, no…Corporatization, institutionalized ignorance, and the acceptance of style over substance and jingoistic dogma as acceptable discourse have warped the visible ideals in that time of both ‘ideologies’.
OT: Let’s have a little bipartisanship, shall we?
;>)
G’nite, dmac. Happy Ohio.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 41
Almost mentioned them; I believe they’re trying to talk the Democrats into taking the Republican view.
thingwarbler @ 42
No. This has been another edition of Simple Answers To Simple Questions (I believe Atrios holds the trademark).
Oh, and before I forget, is Evil Dr Puma around? And isn’t it his birthday? Pi day!
HotFlash @ 49
He’s turning 31.415926535?
Eli @ 25
My current hierarchy is this:
First, get the rethugs out of power. Until that happens nothing can be accomplished. We’ve partially accomplished this in November and may go further to completing the job in ‘08. Having a positive program, exposing corruption and stressing themes like the one you posted can go a ways to making this happen.
Second, insure the integrity of elections and voting machines. This goes directly to point #1.
Third, attempt as much as we can by pressuring both the media and Congress to pass at least parts of a progressive agenda which will benefit the majority of Americans. Be aware that this will be hampered by their allegiance to, and dependency on, corporate money, so making clean money campaigns the next biggest thing is what will actually free up Congress to get done what needs to be done and feel that they can still be re-elected.
And I know that this won’t happen tomorrow, but look how far we have come in three years.
Atrios. :p Okay, I’m officially coining BlogMart unless it turns out someone coined it before I did. I’ve just *got* to coin *something* of my own.
Eli @ 50
That’s all he’s admitting to, I think.
I think the biggest difference between now and then (60s, 70s) is the money factor in campaigns. Big media buys.
The phenomenal amounts of money raised for campaigns now is obscene.
Everyone has to sell out to the ones that pay for the campaigns.
Campaign finance reform is at the top of my list of to dos in DC, right behind ending the war. The money is destroying our democracy–and the corrupt regime in there now is the penultimate.
I’ve been looking but unable to find, so—
Does anyone know of a summary (with citations) or just the citations to any statutory and/or regulatory authority concerning non-partisan conduct of DOJ employees and/or U.S. attorneys.
I was interested in looking at the specific language.
Thanks.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 37
I think most Repugs believe in the trickle down economic theory (which has mostly been disproven and debunked, I think, although most GOPers won’t admit it.) I believe, and I think most Dems also believe, in a bubble up economy where you start with more money in the hands of the masses, and with more money circulating through the system, it bubbles up throughout all levels. Maybe I’m wrong; I’m not an economist, just a citizen. But with more money, we can solve more of the problems of the have-nots and generally do the most good for the most people, including the haves.
Morris Sheppard @ 51
I find myself wondering how many of the pro-corporate assholes in the Democratic Party would stop being so if they didn’t have to suck up to corporations any more. Or if they would just continue out of habit or fundamental assholishness.
Regardless, I would really like to primary the corporate shills out of the Democratic Party. Even if they claim to be reformed, it doesn’t speak well of their integrity that they were so beholden in the first place.
It’s not efficiency Eli.
It’s guilt.
The only, singular difference between Republicans and Democrats is Republicans don’t feel guilty about building a government dedicated to giving them everything they want: the pork, the abuse of power, the patronage, the flacks, the sycophants and the weasels.
Democrats do. The core is exactly the same, they just add in all the extra government for everyone who’s not a white male so they can sleep at night.
Valley Girl @ 40
We could start by discussing things (which may be perceived as mainstream by some) like Nafta, Cafta, and the DLC and how these Democrat supported concepts do or do not benefit the people. By that I mean labor. Just for starters. Then we might want to think about Demos Middle East philosophy and then move back to the domestic arena. We will need a long time. I realize of course I am having my own question(s) pointed back at me. And perhaps I shouldn’t allow that. Not good debate form and all that. I’ll be careful though. ;0)
O/T, but… Fitz says he doesn’t have anything to say to Waxman’s inquiry re the Plame Leak:
So, that’s really IT? The end of the story, everything? The criminal white house gang gets off yet again? How many crimes is it now?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 41
Thew DLC not only bows to corporate interests at the expense of people, they think it’s a good thing and ought to be the model for the party. That, and they sort of like war.
UGH!!
The question remains. What is a mainstream Democrat?
Morris Sheppard @ 61
I’m about 60% certain that the DLC is playing for the other team.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 62
A mainstream Democrat believes in Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, a social safety net in general, protecting the environment, balanced budgets, science, education, choice, gay marriage, rule of law, staying out of idiotic wars, and actually protecting us against terrorist attacks instead of just using it as an excuse to accumulate absolute power.
I’m sure I’m missing a whole bunch, but those are some that come to mind. Based on Democrats’ voting history, there seems to be a core of about 20-25 Senators who don’t fall for the Republican bullshit every time.
Millineryman @
38
Just popped over here to report this. It surprises me that no one in the diary thought of THIS scenario (at least in the comments there SO FAR):
What would be the fastest, easiest way to gain access to a campaign’s computers?
Have the building evacuated, maybe?
Or is my tin-foil hat adjusted too tightly?
[One of these days I’m going to finally sign up at dKos , as I’ve been lurking there for years, since the very beginning. The rules just seem so damned complicated, and I barely have time to post HERE at the Lake, my favoritest place on the toobz, as it is. Still I could stick my 2 cents in over there if I had an account….hmmm….decisions…]
As I read the Fitz quote, he’s saying he won’t offer opinions. It does not say he won’t offer facts developed through the investigation, though I defer to the attorneys. We’ll see how this plays out.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 59
OKK!!! Thanks so much. It is good to see you out of the question mode, and into the specifics. I wish you would elaborate more on your views. Even start doing links. I happen to agree on the three points you have mentioned. You have such strong views. Of course I do too. And, I am always looking for extra information at FDL. Links, more extensive discussion. It helps me get my talking points together with the locals. Thanks, and best wishes.
“the Democrats genuinely do believe that the government is supposed to work for everyone’s benefit”
– I’m gonna pissed off if that’s not the case.
Eli @ 57
There is only one way to find out.
The time to start doing that is now. Identify challengers, put together locol organizations, raise money. I know I’m still watching Harmon closely. She has improved, largely I think because of the scare she got in the primary last year, but I haven’t ruled out helping Marcy make another run at it.
OK kiddo, it’s my personal opinion that those of us here who are Dems *are* mainstream. The DLC and the Blue Dogs are way too right wing to be mainstream.
Lefties have been tagged as “radicals” and “extremists” for so long too many have accepted that as truth. I don’t think so.
In a country that has been yanked so hard to the right I think we’re the “regular people”, and I think we outnumber the righties. They just have more money and more access to the MSM.
David Robinson @ 68
As will we all.
Morris Sheppard @ 69
Absolutely. Why wait? If we do it enough, it’ll even send a message to faithless Democrats who *weren’t* primaried.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 16
Yep, and this is a strategic opportunity (and vulnerablity) for progressives.
We saw the vulnerablity during Reagan/Bush I in the “Reagan Dem” voters pulled towards R by the Reichwing’s Kultur War.
Opportunities?
As prominent as the neo-cons/fundies have become, they’re not the whole of the Republican party.
The “Rockefeller Republicans” were/are pro-environment, favored New Deal programs, and make lots of Dems look conservative. Shrub embarrasses and threatens them.
Another strand of the Republican party – at least in So Cal – was/is the “little old lady(man) in tennis shoes” Republican party. Monied, landed, Republican since conception, yet progressive in values. These people abhor Bush and the neo-cons.
“Fiscal” Republicans. Most think the fundies and neo-cons are certifiable (insane). All for slashing taxes – but want their assets safe. Really, really frightened by Shrub – he took Clinton’s surplus (with negative balance of trade) down to a yawning federal deficit (with far more negative balance of trade). T-Bill demand was down, housing is down, and the war spending is inflationary. They’re pissed.
Neo-cons. Pass. I haven’t eaten.
Dominionists. Pass. Ditto.
Social conservatives. Substantial proportion with worsening economic conditions. Many resent the worldly “fiscal” Republicans, and once rejected political participation.
This rejection was the norm before Republican strategists deliberately brought evangelical Christians out of political non-participation in the 1970’s. The Republican strategists – knowing the party could never win on minority-based economic policy – crafted social policy hooks for previously non-voting evangelicals.
almost forgot – oh – the flames averted.
The Republican strategists’ minority-based economic policy?
The policy is crafted for a minority of 0.5% –
that’s one-half of one percent of Americans –
that’s five Americans in…..and nine hundred ninety-five Americans out.
Party of Lincoln, the Republicans really have been defending minority rights.
The minority with trust funds.
Eli @ 31
Amen to both of you!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 62
These days nothing but a Republican or an Independent in denial. Either that or they are a plant in the party…more will come now that the pugs are losing.
Only thirty Senators (all Dems) voted against A*PACish legislation to cluster bomb civilians in Lebanon last September. It’s one of my favorite lists along with brownandserves excellent compilation here to remind me of who the good ones are.
modthinglet @
55
Please start with this from Wikipedia:
Hatch Act of 1939
kirk murphy @ 72
This is what pisses me off the most: That money carries so much weight in the campaign process that 0.5% of the population can essentially *buy* (or dupe, through their pet media) the votes of 51%.
Which is why campaign finance and media reform are so essential.
I like OK Kiddo’s question mode.
It makes me think.
Pachacutec @
66
But Waxman, et all have security clearances. They could have a frank talk with Fitz in a close session. But who knows? It’s already been close to 4 years since the investigation started. Seems to me that indictments would be made by now.
I know I worry too much. But WHAT IF Fitz really is a bush player? Got their fall guy on a crime other than the crime he was investigating. Don’t mean to doubt that wonderful irishman, but no one seems to be paying for this treasonous crime. NO ONE. I have a problem with that. FOUR YEARS LATER! Ugh.
Eli @ 63
I was going to say “you mean they’re gay?” but I won’t. Seriously, some of those folks like Marshall Wittman, who now serves his new overlord Holy Joe, used to play for the other team, and likely still do in a way. Some may be just on a team of one. Whatever, they sure don’t seem like they are on our team.
Morris Sheppard @ 79
There is certainly no doubt in my mind that *Joe* plays for the other team. There may have been a time when he was on our team (barely), but he’s been solidly on the other side throughout the Bush administration.
angie @ 77
Yes, but imo the question mode and the answer mode need to be better balanced. Okk, you listening? It’s pretty easy to pose questions. Not so easy to find answers. That’s my sticking point with Okk.
SusanD @ 70
I am an unashamed, unabashed, left-wing radical. I believe in truth, justice, fairness, and a hand-up for the weak, the meek, the sick, the old, the poor, and the children. I believe in peace. I believe in accountability. I believe in saving Mother Earth. And some other things. And I dislike greed. And am suspect of the powerful. ;0)
They absolutely do NOT support small government. They say that, yes, but it’s a lie. No republican president, senate or house has ever offered a federal budget that was smaller than the budget that was offered the year before.
There has been no attempt, in the post war period, to reduce the size of the federal government by any elected republican body. None.
The entire republican bumper sticker program is transparently false. when in power, they make government bigger. This administration is the worst ever in part because they could make government bigger, by paying private sector vendors for goods and services that had previoudly provided more cheaply by government employees. It’s also the worst ever because they have funded every defense boondoggle that comes down the pike, while simultaneously being unable to reduce the costs of entitlements–as well as making the US health care system the most expensive and least user and doctor friendly in the OECD–so that big Pharma and insurance companies can benefit.
The republican party, in action, does none of the things that it says it supports.
Except cut taxes.
yesterday i had a colonoscopy and it was great! the doc let me stay awake and watch with just a tiny hit of fentenol(not sure of the spelling). well, when we started going through the “tunnel of me”, i thought it was like seeing “raiders of the lost ark” then as we traveled on and around my appendix opening and farther and farther i decided it was like living through the dark days of the bush cheney administration. around every dark corner there lurked pockets of f*cal matter and sludge. finally, we burst into daylight, which i hope is around the corner for our country, free from president f*cal matter and vice president sludge.
From Thomas Jefferson –
“In America, no other distinction between man and man had ever been known but that of persons in office exercising powers by authority of the laws, and private individuals. Among these last, the poorest laborer stood on equal ground with the wealthiest millionaire, and generally on a more favored one whenever their rights seem to jar.”
“The most sacred of the duties of a government [is] to do equal and impartial justice to all its citizens.”
“The only orthodox object of the institution of government is to secure the greatest degree of happiness possible to the general mass of those associated under it.”
We need to purge the money and the special interests out of politics, VG.
Not the McCain way, but a new American way, for both parties.
That’s my answer, and I’m sticking to it.
jayackroyd @ 83
They just want to shrink the parts that don’t benefit them.
Really, I think “small government” is just code for “No more Social Security/Medicare/Welfare/social services of any kind”.
Amen, Eli
Excellent post.
I’ve always thought that those that say ‘Bush is incompetent’ just don’t understand his goals.
Valley Girl @ 81
You could say I’m listening. ;0)
solai @ 88
Thanks, solai. I still think he’s incompetent, though.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @
75
Thanks. I’ve been through some of the regulations discussing non-participation in partisan activity, but was looking for more discussing non-partisan conduct of duties.
Besides the whole entitlement view they have, the way they have embraced hate and prejudice blows my mind.
From Thomas Jefferson –
“In America, no other distinction between man and man had ever been known but that of persons in office exercising powers by authority of the laws, and private individuals. Among these last, the poorest laborer stood on equal ground with the wealthiest millionaire, and generally on a more favored one whenever their rights seem to jar.”
“The only orthodox object of the institution of government is to secure the greatest degree of happiness possible to the general mass of those associated under it.”
“Of distinction by birth or badge, [Americans] had no more idea than they had of the mode of existence in the moon or planets. They had heard only that there were such, and knew that they must be wrong.”
I don’t think GWB understands much at all.
Millineryman @ 92
don’t forget fear– it’s a trifecta!
alla those “brown people” *grumble* *shreik* *horror*
the cradle of civilization is what they are wrecking, folks.
angie @ 86
I couldn’t agree more. I remember that both of us have huge concerns about the tax exemptions for religious organizations. To name only one special interest. I would guess that only 5% of these organizations are free of politics. No time right now to do this research, so that’s just my biased guess.
And I support civil disobedience.
Squirrel: Have you had enough?
Millineryman @ 92
This is something I want to see the Democrats call them on. Not so much, “Look how bigoted and hateful the Republicans are!” so much as “Look how bigoted and hateful the Republicans think *you* are!”
Ditto for the perpetual fear: “They think you’re all cowards!”
Appeal to their pride in themselves as Americans, and what Americans are supposed to stand for – no reason Democrats can’t appeal to patriotism too.
squirrel hiller @ 84
707!
Morris Sheppard @ 51
Hopefully, this strategy will include getting many if not most of the currently weak-as-hell incumbents out of office and bringing in the newer and fresher candidates (like Obama and Tester, to name a few.) The weak-as-hell incumbents would include the DLC.
Came across this blast from the past wrt AG’s and prosecutions. This is Viveca Novak reporting on the MicroSoft anti-trust prosecutions in 1999. Time Mag.
There’s a link to Fitz’s letter on a previous post but I can’t find it…
Basically what he says is that because the Libby trial is ongoing (Libby has not been sentenced yet) he cannot discuss it.
Also, he is under certain laws, as a prosecutor, that restrict him from saying anything.
He also directs Waxman to all the trial info that is now public domain.
He’s not talking because he can’t, not because he won’t.
I’m wondering if I should take Friday off for the Plame hearing. How long will it last?
AZ Matt @ 85
No doubt Jefferson was one of our greatest thinkers, in large part the architect of our liberties and the quintissential American. One of the fascinating aspects of his life and thought was his relationship to slavery, an instittuion diametrically opposed to all he seemed to hold dear. Caution! Shameless plug coming! If you are curious about America’s relationship to blacks and slavery in the formative years you may wish to read my niece’s new book, Race and Liberty in the New Nation: Emancipation in Virginia from the Revolution to Nat Turner’s Rebellion by Eva Sheppard Wolf.
squirrel hiller @ 84
Um, gosh, cool. I think. ;)
This is a good technique from a communications standpoint. It puts the Republicans on the defensive. It would also require an aggressive stance on the Democrats part, without triangulation and mealy mouth speak.
AZ Matt @ 93
Not only does he probably not understand it, if he did he wouldn’t agree with it.
joysness– here’s the link to the letter from Fitz.
http://oversight.house.gov/story.asp?ID=1205
I want a new, fair, square deal. I want the honesty of President Carter. I want the compassion of FDR. I want the intellect of JFK. And I want the resolve, common sense, and ability to change course when necessary of a Harry Truman. This is what to me, is a mainstream Democrat. Am I being clear? This is not a question. ;0)
Great post and comments!
All Democrats need to internalize the fact that the one core narrative that is stronger than “Democrats are weak on defense” (which has lately lost its power anyway) is “Republicans are crooked.” It goes back way further than any slurs against the Dems (which date only to the post-Vietnam era), and has the advantage of being true.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 109
I want the decency and honesty of Carter, the brains of Clinton, and the balls of LBJ.
joysness @ 102
Here’s your Fitzletter right here. (.pdf)
angie @ 94
The “cradle” (the Middle East) is being destroyed. I am sad. So very sad.
angie @ 108
Thanks Angie,
got it downloaded. :)
Mrs. K8 @ 65
If my vote means anything, I say jump on in, the water’s fine.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 109
Yes, you are being clear. This is exactly what I would like Democrats to be. Unfortunately, this does not equate to the “mainstream” Democrats we have now. Almost makes we weep.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 114
You’ll never convince the Republicans that the Middle East has anything to do with civilization.
Look how much of a shit they gave about Iraq’s museums and libraries.
LBJ did know how to kick butt. And he brought free text books to the children of the poor in Texas public schools.
Eli @ 63
Along with a great many Republicans (Rockefeller/fiscal), the DLC support the Money Party.
NAFTA – DLC loves it
WTO – DLC loves it.
Iraq War – DLC loves it.
Genetically modified foods – DLC loves ‘em.
Corporate pig farms (massive sewage lakes) – DLC loves ‘em.
Coal power – DLC loves it.
Trashing your health insurance/ pensions/ workplace safety – DLC loves it.
The DLC claim they work for us.
We the people.
The people the DLC purports to represent…while seeking bribes from those who destroy our health, jobs, and communities.
The DLC folks long ago betrayed America’s economy – and our livelihoods – to the megacorps and their globalization scam.
To preserve their K Street lifestyle, in a nanosecond the DLC will trash your industry, your community, your family.
May the people in the DLC live long, healthy, and abundant lives (despite decades of work to deny the same to the vast majority of us).
And may they do so no sooner than the rest of us – and retain their abundance no longer than the rest of us.
But the DLC itself – as distinct from the human employees….
May the organization swallow one too many corporate bon-bons and be found days later by the coroner under a cloud of flies, half-tied to a greasy CEO’s bed wearing Mrs. Howell’s wardrobe up top and a big “love me here megacorps” lipsticked around its ostensibly non-profit backside.
________________________________________
…………Well, anyway.
…. that’s one pups’ opinion on where teh DLC fits in.
Ahgoo @
27
No. Do you have a link?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 119
And he pushed through civil rights despite knowing it would lose the South for a generation (which turned out to be an understatement).
Millineryman @ 106
Yeah; I once had an idea for what I hoped a Democratic candidate (Gore in 2000, I think) would say, riffing on the idea of “they think you’re stupid!” I’ll have to see if I can reconstruct it; it was a series of statements about the ways Republicans lie to voters, especially working people, but instead of saying “they’re lying to you,” it took that as a given, and put it in terms like “they think they can tell you that Social Security is going to go bankrupt, and that somehow giving part of your retirement away to their banker contributors is going to help!”
Basically, try to engender the reaction (even in people who might have believed the GOP in the past) of “of course, I’m not stupid, so I’m not going to buy that any more.”
This country has experienced an object lesson in political science – something I never understood when reading about the centrality of the Party in Soviet Russia for example.
They actively merged the State apparatus with their Party mechanisms, so they became one tool, or weapon, to advance and further their power within the society they parasitized.
The GOP is well along the same path – it’s not easy to express in a couple sentences, but for those Old Right Republicans, Goldwater types, it must be appalling to see their Party transformed to resemble the Soviet system.
Yes, OK @ 109.
America, the beautiful, has been trashed for far too long and for good reason.
I never want to hear words sung in perfect harmony and platitudes spoken vicariously again until and unless we live up to our heinous deeds and our promises.
We’re better than this.
Otherwise…
So, OkK, when are going to start doing links? I’ll give you a week…. ;)
March 14th, 2007 at 6:50 pm
Morris Sheppard at #69 says:
Funny, I thought she got worse when I saw what she said at A*P*C yesterday.
I do think Marcy would make a great candidate, though!
squirrel hiller @ 84
For people who enjoy the “tunnel of me” sort of thing–or, more accurately, “tunnel of some other person”, there’s a lot of good stuff here.
Millineryman @ 106
It flatters the listener — or to put it less crassly, it ASSUMES fundamental decency and tolerance as a trait of the listener. This is very, very smart! (Very few people will respond with, “no, no, the GOP is right, I really AM a bigot!”).
And in another smart jujitsu move, Air America sent a letter to the RNC, which had been whining about how Dems are like Stalinists and Nazis for “hating free speech” by boycotting Fox Noise Channel for the debate.
Air America essentially said, “Ah! Since the RNC values free speech, we assume you’ll be happy to hold GOP candidate debates with Air America moderators!”
Hee hee.
p.s. Millineryman — What did you think of my comment above that the “white powder” in Edwards campaign headquarters, causing an evacuation, could have been a ploy to get access to Edwards’ computers and/or files? Am I too clever by half in my paranoia, or is it a warranted consideration? [I ask because you showed interest in the story early in the thread.]
I’m sorry, this statement contradicts the notion that “It’s our due”.
You say that for Republicans, winning elections and controlling government is a reward. What, exactly, is the nature of this reward?
Power.
Nobody who lusts for power wants small government, since the smaller the government, the less potential power available to those who control it.
Robert Caro has written some excellent biographies of people who sought power for it’s own sake. People who seek power are not like you and me. For one thing, they can recognize the potential for power in otherwise innocuous setting, like Lyndon Johnson did when, as a Congressional aide, he got himself elected speaker of the “Little Congress,” a group of Congressional aides in the Capitol.
I’m old enough to remember LBJ, and even Robert Moses, the other power-seeker about whom Caro has written, but I don’t think I’ll ever see anyone who surpasses Cheney in his lust for power. Cheney is one of those Nixon/Ford guys who have long wanted to restore to the presidency the power it lost after Watergate — for them the “imperial presidency” is a good thing.
Cheney realized from his discussions in the summer of 2000 how weak Bush would be as President. Bush was seeking someone to serve as co-President and help him govern, not a seat-warmer to represent the U.S. at state funerals. The Vice Presidency, formerly a position that had been considered almost a joke, now had unprecedented potential for power. Most people forget that Cheney is the one who, when Bush asked him to help choose a VP, chose himself.
My brother-in-law and my nephew, then 11, had a long, boring interstate drive a couple of years back. To pass the time they were concocting extravagant insults for one another. The game had gone on for hours and the score was even. My nephew had called his father a humpbacked, multicolored, Twinkie-eating wannabe Harley rider or some such. My b-in-l came back with “You’re a Republican.” There was a brief silence, then my nephew demanded, “Take it back!”
Redshift @ 123
That too…
I did a post about this on my own blog about a year ago.
spork the III @ 124
Wow, Soviet Union plus fascism – what more could we want in a government?
Linda,
Angie @ 108 and HotFlash @ 113 both posted links to Fitz’s letter. :)
ccmask @ 103
Just a guess but I’d predict several days at the least. Not sure who is on the committee but we can always anticipate a couple of hot dogs who love the sound of their own voices. :~)
The Shadow @ 130
No contradiction at all; Republicans only want to shrink the *extraneous* parts of government, namely, the ones that don’t benefit them.
Ann in AZ –
Oh good! Nice to know I haven’t been swimming too far from shore…yet.
BTW — I asked you a question the other night, but got EPU’d, it was late…
Do you mind my asking whereabouts (in general terms) you are in AZ? I’m in Phoenix metro area, how about you?
I’ve only met one local Firepup so far — the wonderful and energetic Katymine. But surely would love to meet as many other Pups as would be do-able. Can’t travel to yearlyKos this time, and don’t get a chance to travel much at all. But making the most of the local FDL scene would be way cool!
[And am I remembering correctly that you once mentioned that you too are disabled? Or does my disability now extend to that portion of my brain responsible for remembering details like this and not mixing up different commenters? I don’t mean to be nosy, just want to know if I’m remembering what you said before.]
Mrs. K8 @ 129
Eli @ 98
Great strategy – allow the targeted group to “split off” and externalize the behavior targeted for reduction/extinction*.
So long as our subjective decisions are – well – subject to our visceral emotional responses, linking the oppostion to “disgust/derision” is powerful.
And for the Rethug hard-core crowd (but not always the misled Faux viewers), valid.
Love your strategy as a tool to divide the hard core Rethugs from the Republicans who still reject authoritarian rule.
[
Note to wingnuts. This is *extinction in the Skinner behavioral sense, not in the species termination meaning form evolution.Likely a waste of effort.
Wingnuts’ll think the former is a skater injury and the latter’s a myth.
Like trickle-down. And WMD’s.]
HotFlash @ 131
LOL!!!! Too too funny. But oh so true! That knife digs deep.
Valley Girl @ 126
Hey, you only gave me ten minutes..) but that was almost a year ago.
((((((VG))) a left hug (h/t kirk murphy)
Mrs K8 @ 129.
I’m with you, I worried when the power went out at Prettyman. I remember those towers falling down. If you’re low on tinfoil, I’ve stocked up and have plenty to spare.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03…..ref=slogin
WASHINGTON, March 14 — Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton foresees a “remaining military as well as political mission” in Iraq, and says that if elected president, she would keep a reduced but significant military force there to fight Al Qaeda, deter Iranian aggression, protect the Kurds and possibly support the Iraqi military.
Oklahoma kiddo @
119
Well, yeah… he might have taken free books to the kids in poor schools…. INSTEAD of fixing the public school funding issue which was paid for by local district property taxes. You live in a rich district, you have lots of money for YOUR schools. You have a poor district? Not much money for schools. The federal govt eventually intervened and called the funding scheme unconstitutional and Texas has been under federal force to equalize funding throughout Texas. (Don’t worry… the rich people in their districts have ways around it so that their schools are better funded).
Anyways, public school funding in Texas is a sore spot with me (being from Texas).
One thing LBJ did do that was great was to personally show up at the hurrican flood in NOLA in 1965. There’s a story that he marched through a bunch of water at night with a flashlight to talk to a family: This is your President, he said. Far cry from our little empty photo op in the oval office.
Curious in Central Texas @ 141
Who do we think we are, the Romans?
Eureka Springs, AR @ 140
ES- whoa! I don’t remember that, tho I do have a pretty good memory for FDL comments and commenters. A left hug? I like that, being a true hand-wise lefty myself.
Who’ll stop the Eli?
“SQUIRREL”: hopefully they didn’t take a wrong turn and pass the “NUTs” and hit the “ZIPPER.”
whoa…gotta get some sleep…
(assuming you’re male of course…)
He’s a straight arrow prosecutor. He does not traffic in “opinions” in his official role.
Eureka Springs, AR @ 140
Shucks…
thanks, Eureka Springs.
(blushes)
HotFlash @
141
Yes.
And let’s not forget the guy at the Nat’l Enquirer, the photographer rumored to have had pics of Little Boots and his very, very good friend, Victor Ashe. The photographer died, but the building was cordoned off for a very long time. And no such pictures were later found in the guy’s desk.
With Edwards, it would be hitting a few birds with one stone. Intimidation. Revenge (for messing up Ann Coulter’s cozy deal with newspapers and advertisers). Reminders of the “war on terrorism” – be afraid, be very afraid! And of course, the “intelligence gathering” component I suggested.
I think the GOP sees Edwards as a real threat. There’s an awful lot of untapped anger in the public just waiting to resonate to his populist message. Which will only get greater as the housing market and stock market collapse further, leading to the already-squeezed in the middle class getting crushed.
Morris Sheppard @ 104
Well, wha kind of a shameless plug is that, no link? It is available from Amazon, so click through the FDL link (they get some change for that) and have a boo. Folks from VA might be especially inerested, but this story belongs to all of America. Here is a quote from the blurb:
So click through the Amazon link upper left, and search for Race And Liberty in the New Nation: Emancipation in Virginia from the Revolution to Nat Turner’s Rebellion. It’ by (Prof) Eva Sheppard Wolf and it’s under $40. Might be interesting book salon, Morris, you think she’d do that?
Eli @ 90
Eli, sounds like you were listening to Joe Biden’s speech today on the Senate floor. It was impassioned and he called the Bush administration incompetent several times. He was extremely pissed and not bloviating for a change.
So Khalid Sheikh Muhammad confessed. After several years in prison. To a tribunal whose names have all been redacted. Do I think he’s guilty as hell? Absolutely. But I also think think that he’d probably confess to the Jack the Ripper killings at this point. The world’s worst public defender would be able to get him off in a real courtroom. So what happens now? Are we going to whack him in Cuba?
Pachacutec @ 148
When reading Waxman’s letter last week, my first reaction was, “Fitz can’t say anything outside of what’s already been said in court.” I’m not surprised by his letter. It’s up to the committee to figure what’s happening, or to appoint Fitz or someone else to investigate, isn’t it?
Ann in AZ @ 152
Actually, I had already kinda figured it out…
Frank Probst @ 153
This is also most definitely NOT new news.
This is a desperate ploy to get Gonzo off the front pages of the papers.
(And yeah, Joe B. can talk a good game sometimes, as can Schumer, and even Hillary.)
bonkers @ 154
Fitz’s response was totally in character. And he’s already told them what they need to do: Open the grand jury records.
re: Hillary the torture question
Speaking to the New York Daily News editorial board on October 11, Clinton said she recognized that in some situations interrogations called for “severity.” According to the newspaper, the conversation included mention of waterboarding, hypothermia and other methods recognized internationally as torture.
“I have said that those are very rare, but if they occur there has to be some lawful authority for pursuing that,” she responded.
“Again, I think the president has to take responsibility. There has to be some check and balance, some reporting. I don’t mind if it’s reporting in a top secret context.”
Asked again about the permissibility of torture, she declared: “In those instances where we have sufficient basis to believe that there is something imminent, yeah, but then we’ve got to have a check and balance.”
In other words, Clinton is prepared to support legislation explicitly granting the US president the right to order the torture of any suspect, so long as the president claims there exists an “imminent threat” to national security—something the Bush White House does on a nearly routine basis.
As a “check and balance,” she proposes a “top secret” report to members of Congress that will be concealed from the American people.
Last month, the Democratic senator’s husband, Bill Clinton, made a similar statement, proposing that a court be established to issue torture warrants.
“If they really believe the time comes when the only way they can get a reliable piece of information is to beat it out of someone or put a drug in their body to talk it out of ’em, then they can present it to the Foreign Intelligence Court, or some other court, just under the same circumstances we do with wiretaps. Post facto….”
In other words, the former Democratic president is proposing to set up courts that would provide legal sanction for torture—after the fact.
Interrogators would have the comfort of knowing they could torture suspects, including American citizens, and concoct a justification for their actions after they had extracted a confession.
That both parties openly defend such methods and debate them in the midst of a national election campaign is, as Ms. Clinton stated in the Senate, an indication of just how low America’s two-party system has fallen.
It is also a measure of how thoroughly the US ruling elite has repudiated any commitment to the most elementary guarantees of democratic rights.
Oh Lordy, Mrs K8, there is just so much that worries me. I found this story about the Nat’l Enquirer Bldg, the photog editor you mentioned, and the whole Nat’l Enquirer archives seem to have disappeared. Not only Nat’l Enq material but decades of stuff from other little papers they had bought up over decades. You may have seen it, I’ve been linking to it because I find it hair-raising.
Valley Girl @ 159
The Democrats never look so weak as when they’re trying to look strong.
G’day from the other side of the pond. Lovely succinct post eli…and it applies beyond your borders.
Having become addicted to FDL & its kin (in a nose-pressed-against-the-glass-look-but-don’t-touch way) I can see the netroot effect on Australian politics too. Our neocons are also in their death throes but since they are dependent on Neocon Politbureau funding they can probably see (and feal) the fear of the US Greedies with great clarity/anxiety. There is a smell of death around them (the Oz Dexter Pinions) that will get realised in our October/November election. And fear of losing what they (and their sires and spawn) have grasped is the fundamental cause of the disease of the Dexters that infest your politics and ours.
Eli @ 112
Yay to both of you!
Thanks, Wombat! Maybe this democracy thing will catch on yet…
Eli @ 161
I was totally appalled by this, politics aside. Not only on moral grounds, but on practical grounds as well. Maybe Hillary has been watching too many movies.
Frank Probst @ 153
I don’t buy for one minute that he did the 1993 WTC bombing. It’s been well documented it was his uncle, Ramsey Yousef
Mrs. K8 @ 129
I didn’t see that Mrs. K8. In the rush to evacuate people might forget to shut down their computers. However I think it’s a sick prank more then anything else.
Now for my tinfoil hat theory, is this part of the pattern that seems to be developing with attacks against Edwards?
Valley Girl @ 117
Well, I also want a candidate that can give a speech like Al Gore gave at Constitution Hall on MLK day in 2006.
Valley Girl @ 165
Hillary is determined to prove how tough she is. Same reason she won’t renounce her vote for the war.
I just don’t understand who she thinks she’s appealing to… It’s not like this is going to convince any Republicans to vote for her.
HotFlash @ 160
Yeesh. I found the power outage, working on the A/C, and the overflowing septic system all quite odd during the Libby jury deliberations. Those “crews” probably had to stay after hours and maybe even overnight to get things “working” again. That Prettyman courthouse must be a dump, huh! I’m sure it was just merely coincidence.
Ann in AZ @ 168
Oh yes. That was when I decided he needed to be our nominee.
VG – You really didn’t give me a specific time limit…) I just remember in my early swimming here you asked me for a link and I nearly panicked because I had no idea how to do it and only a vague idea what you were talking about..) FDL was my second blog discovery and my first comment.
Ann in Az- actually I want Al Gore as the candidate. I was pretty taken aback when a dear friend of mine, very liberal and an admirer of Gore, and also very savvy, said “he won’t win”- I didn’t clarify it at the time… I don’t know now if he meant the Dem nomination or the election itself. Ouch.
Eureka Springs, AR @ 172
And then… ;) I’m sure I had no idea that it was your first comment. No challenge or anything. But, I do love links to things that seem especially interesting. Pat yourself on the back!
Oklahoma kiddo @
37
Excellent question. There’s no hard and fast rule and when the number of Dems in Congress who vote for a bill varies from one bill to the next, then you know the devil is in the details.
Many Dems will vote for corporate interests because their own job requires them to kowtow a bit for campaign funds.
Most Dems, however, truly believe in “We, the People” and that government is a secular tool which works to make life better for ALL of us.
I think most also believe in concensus and finding common ground with minority interests in Congress.
As this modern Constitutional Republic is a Liberal form of government (compared to monarchies) there are many fundamentals Dems believe in and until recently it seemed Republicans did too. Dems continue to.
I hate to say Dems care about people and Republicans care about money, but sometimes it certainly looks that way.
Recent discussion on WashingtonMonthly.com indicates the Conservatives don’t really consistently stand for anything, despite their argument that they’re for a handful of things and always have been. T’ain’t so.
Dems are somewhat the same when it comes to details, but we have always been for Equal Rights and using the Constitution to protect people’s ‘Life, Liberty and pursuit of Happiness’. Perhaps that’s why we haven’t focused so much on Capitalism and the economy. But, beginning with the Carter era that changed somewhat and it was certainly a focus of the Clinton administration (wonderfully well, I might add).
Foreign affairs (defense) has always been the rhetorical home of the Republicans. But, this current fiasco shows them up to be nothing but stupid bullies and criminals. Dems are looking better and better in the comparison.
What do Dems stand for? The American Dream for Everyone.
I remember the evening they went into that building in Boca to investigate. They never thought of putting on protective gear. They just showed up and started hauling out computers. Until Randi Rhodes (I think) started yelling on the radio “where in the hell is their protective gear if there is anthrax!!”. Next thing you know, a hazmat team shows up a little later to make it llok good and all the employees were stripped down and hosed!! What a crock!
Eli @
169
Ding!
ccmask @ 176
Gulp.
[Kinda like the way troops went into Iraq, eh? Almost as if they knew there weren’t any WMD. Funny how that works.]
Mrs. K8 @ 178
Sometimes they’re incompetent, sometimes they only pretend to be.
Sometimes incompetence is simply the most palatable explanation.
TRex is looking at what the cat threw up
bonkers @
170
I understand that budgets have been cut. But you know, the resultin chaos just makes it so much easier to get your ‘plumbers’ in. And I dont’ think *that* is coincidence.
Reg Repub’s commitments to make government serve their greed, etc. See the following from buzz flash.
9 buzzes
buzz itWHY CAROL LAM WAS THE “REAL PROBLEM”: CORRUPT GOP FUNDED PHONY DEFENSE COMPANIES! $700 MIL!!http://www.democraticunderground.com/….._al…
sent by partynut since 4 hours 28 minutes, published about 25 minutes
The Republicans criminally conspired to take over this country illegally. And they did it — in style, with hookers. The US Attorneys firing scandal has now become intertwined with the Phony Defense Company Scandal of Jerry Lewis, Duke Cunningham, Porter Goss and the entire GOP membership of the Defense Appropriations Committee. In all, about 15 to 20 more Republican Congressmen would have been indicted for being involved with Lewis and Cunningham on all those criminal earmarks, but Rove and Gonzo got rid of the US Attorneys.
TeddySanFran @
32
Teddy! You say it so simply. And with no links!
Mrs. K8 @ 137
I’m in the Phoenix metro area, if you consider Glendale Phoenix metro (and I do.) And you do remember correctly. I am on disability due to severe emphysema, and am on 24 hour oxygen. I’ve also had a quadruple heart bypass in 2004. Other than that, I’m fine. I knew that Katymine was from AZ, but I wasn’t sure which part, and I too would love to meet with other FDLers. I’ve seriously thought about going to some Drinking Liberally meetings, but never had the nerve. Besides, I’m only an occasional drinker, with 2 my normal limit in an entire evening. Plus I have some financial restraints, although right now I feel flushed. Have some money stashed, so let me know if you’d like to go to (a modest) lunch or something sometime. I’d be happy to. Maybe Katymine could go too?
GOP: Got Ours. Piss off.
HotFlash –
I think if we were to ever find out all the evil going on behind the scenes even we Firepups, who EXPECT to discover such things, would be completely blown away by it all.
There have been way too many instances of lawmakers (like George Voinovich and the movement of Bolton out of committee, as just one example) who so very suddenly did an amazing 180 degree turn-around that it was stunning to see.
I remember thinking on these occasions, whiskey tango foxtrot, do they have BOTH this person’s kids AND the family dog taken hostage with a gun pointed at their heads?
My only consolation sometimes is that (at least the way I believe, YMMV) there is Someone who sees all, even those believing they operate in total darkness. And Someone will deliver justice, even if not for me to see it. Still and all, I pray for the very best that can be done to obtain some measure of EARTHLY justice. That in itself is our duty as citizens, and as moral people.
(Delurking) Wombat @ 162
Greetings, Wombat! I always wanted to visit your country. My niece and her husband are living in the belly button.
Eli @ 171
I think that speech is still available on the internet. It was when I last looked a few months ago. Wish more people would listen to it. They’d probably also find the candidate of their dreams.
Jeezus, Hillary just keeps getting worse and worse. Torture?!?
These DLC-ocrats feel they know what they’re doing because of Bill Clinton’s wins, which never struck me as great political strategy as much as he was a suave swashbuckler going against two decrepid old men, Bush the First and Bob “Viagra” Dole. Outside of Bill’s Presidency, they have been complete and utter failures who were and still are trying to destroy what it means to be a Democrat.
Either it’s the hubris, or they are knowingly trying to make liberalism irrelevant to satisfy their Conglomerate masters…I can never quite tell fer shure. Do you ever get the feeling that the Internet and Howard Dean came along just in time? It was getting pretty dire…I mean J. Low Lieberman was almost the VP fer chissakes!
Oklahoma kiddo @
109
Sounds like John Edwards to me.
But, there are (and have been) quite a few Dems over the years who fit the bill.
bonkers @ 189
I agree completely about the DLC and Clinton. They’ve been riding his coattails ever since, and telling Democrats that *they* were the reason for his success.
I think some of the Dems *might* be wising up a little. Maybe.
MarkH @ 190
Sounds more like Gore to me. I think the present-day Gore is much tougher than Edwards.
Ann in AZ @ 184
Oh, yes yes yes! I’d love to talk more about this right this second, but have to leave the house in a few minutes. Won’t be gone too long, but we must figure out how best to connect.
I wonder if anyone would be willing to serve as email conduit — I would hate to have to impose on the same folks who’ve helped me out before (Valley Girl and RBG) as intermediaries, but we should figure out some way to exchange email addresses.
Will you be poking your head in the next (late-night I think) thread? I’ll look there as well as here later tonight to see if I spot you.
But we would be so happy to meet you for a lunch, or for a coffee, whatever! Mr. K8 is eager too to meet more Pups, like-minded souls here in the desert. And we used to live in Glendale, so we know our way around there.
Eli @ 192
And he has a better resume. Maybe Edwards for VP or AG. Or Obama for AG or VP. These could be interchangeable.
Ann in AZ @ 194
I would lean towards Obama for VP. I think he inspires and excites people a lot more than Edwards does. Although he might not be as inspiring at the bottom of the ticket.
MarkH @ 175
Also, I think that most dems are not GREEDY. Some are, it’s true…but most Americans don’t want it ALL. They just want enough to live comfortably and get their children a decent start in life.
These neoConmen want to gather up all the earth’s resources so that our lives depend on them (a thought that sometimes keeps me awake at night). What they keep failing to learn from history is that, at some point, most people decide that there actually are fates worse than death and do something about it.
Lindy @ 196
Yep. They were so confident in their ability to game the system, that they thought they could get away with *anything*.
Mrs. K8 at 193:
I don’t need no stinkin’ intermediary (I meant that only to be funny, not catty!). You can e-mail me at hines80583 at Cox dot net.
Thanks for another great post, Eli. and you give great thread too..
Eli @ 195
Yeah, but he’d learn a lot, and he needs the type of experience it would give him.
Eureka Springs, AR @ 199
I have to second that LOL! Though the first part of my second is wholehearted agreement.
Thanks, Eureka! And Lindy!
The “hosting” is a lot easier than the writing.
Well, except maybe the media post. That thread was pretty hot & heavy.
Eureka Springs, AR @ 199
LOL!
…and thereby hangs a tail, Mrs K8. Fear of anthrax was the reason for delaying the first invasion of Iraq by a week or so – ’cause all the allies (which included Oz) weren’t immunised. I have a passing interest in this as I was at university with Rod Barton, the UN Weapons Inspector who cracked the Iraqi anthrax production in the ’80s, and was subsequently purged by the Australian DoD ’cause he embarrassed littlr Johnnie Howard.
In fact it would be worth following up just what did happen about the Amerithrax incidents in 2001. It was all a money-gouging scheme gone horribly wrong anyway – I don’t think the Dexters who did it realised that the weaponised Ames strain anthrax (first isolated from a dead goat at University Station, near Crawford, Tx….!) was as good at forming a secondary aerosol as it turned out to be in mail machines. It killed 5 innocents, but got $US 6 billion for “biodefence” which has acchieved nothing. Might be worth shaking that tree again to see if the current unraveling exposes more stinking carcases under the richly coloured rug of the GOP. The white powder at the Edwards’ HQ will NOT be anthrax, or ricin, cause that’s all locked up now. And guess who has the key.
(Delurking) Wombat @ 204
What a good idea! It also reminded me of Judy Judy Judy’s weapons inspector friend **pause for googling** David Kay, who “committed suicide”..after receiving a number of veiled threats. I’d like to know the back story on that. Or maybe not. God, where’s the brain bleach?
OK, Lindy, you got your tinfoil hat on?
google this:
microbiologists dead anthrax
my grandmother likes to say that both republicans and democrats steal, but when the democrats steal, they leave a little bit for you to steal too.
brendan @ 207
Your grandmother sounds like my grandmother in law (God rest her). She ran numbers out of her grocery store in the 40’s and 50’s and skimmed, but not *too* much. We refer to her as the pirate. ;)
brendan @ 207
I can live with that. Although I think it’s more like Democrats skim from the top, while Republicans think it’s *their* cash register.
HotFlash @ 206
HotFlash, it is never far from me these days.
When you don’t believe in government, it’s a small jump to say, “well, the government is the problem so we’ll simply ignore good government practices and use our power to aggrandize ourselves and our pals and cronies.” So, the whole notion of separation of powers, oversight, an independent judiciary, etc. is trashed in favor of blatant abuses of power. The GOP philosophy in a nutshell.
At Army Magazine, Colonel Craig Trellcock recently posted a cultural analysis of the Iraqi people, well worth reading if you want to understand the difficulties our troops are going through. (Visit http://www.ausa.org/pdfdocs/Ar…..ilcock.pdf ) Please, everyone, visit, if you want to get a step or two up on informed debate.
The seven pillars are aspects of autocratic desert culture. To paraphrase, the desert is a dangerous place where you take care of your own rather than follow an abstract ‘greater good.’ The best way to take care of one’s own is to seek personal power, then do favors for one’s friends. If you or your friends don’t get immediate benefit out of a fight, don’t fight.
This could be taken as prejudicial stereotyping. It is sometimes hard to separate real cultural differences one must acknowledge and respect from hateful racial slurs. However, many of the Seven Pillar trends tend to hold true in ANY autocratic government. When the People don’t jealously guard functional mechanisms such as democracy, human rights and a watchdog free press, you get tribal thinking. When the politicians do not respect and fear the People, they strive for personal power, and bring their friends along with them. The political culture gets centered on short term selfishness, not on the long term good of the country.
Now why do I post this comment in a thread about the Republican administration, not about Iraq?
aqualung @ 211
sorry i missed this post and this comment thread yesterday.
what is coming out now, in these almost daily scandals, is merely the inevitable fruition of an antigovernmental philosophy.
why should we expect competence in running a government from people who have proclaimed their hatred of government, and can see very few if any legitimate governmental functions to defend?
hope the dem candidates, whoever they are, keep pounding this like a drum, that they stand for effective government, and the republicans DON’T. “They have told us that they don’t, and look what happens.”
bill clinton was effective using this in the 90s: no more government than we need, but every bit of it run for the benefit of the people.
Eli @
64
A social safety net? Why not create a system where the government doesn’t assume that they are better managers of your health and wealth than you are?
Environment, science, education? Don’t you mean junk science based on hysteria and unsubstantiated claims? As for education, that’s why vouchers are necessary. Private schools and home schooling are our children’s only salvation.
Gay marriage? Trash a traditional institution in favor of sanctioning immorality?
“Idiotic” Wars? So policy should now be based on subjective judgments of cowardly peaceniks?
Protecting us against attacks? Has the USA been attacked since 9/11? No.
Democrats don’t run on tangible ideas, but rather as the anti-GOP party.
Please don’t lecture me on accumulating and perpetuating power. The Democrat Party has done a great job of that since 1933 with the New Deal, the Great Society, etc, or any other liberal social program that enslaves underclasses and ensures a voting bloc.
Goood morning, Eli – its “Winner Take All”
I guess David Black @ 214 believes in crony capitalism (e.g. Enron, Abramoff, Halliburton), lying to the American people, torture and suspension of habeas corpus and other fundamental civil rights. I guess he believes in the treasonous exposing of a confidential CIA operative working on WMDs. I guess he believes in pork barrell spending run amok (higher than it’s ever been under Bush and the GOP), borrowing and spending (Bush has borrowed more from foreign interests than all previous 42 presidents COMBINED!), voter fraud (i.e. the New Hampshire GOP phone jamming crimes, among others), the infinite expansion of the federal government, the perversion of science and scientific inquiry, and the criminalization of private behavior between consenting adults. I’m sure there is much more that David believes. Glad he’s a member of a very small minorty in this country. I’m sure he’d feel more comfortable in Berlin, circa 1933.
aqualung @
216
What a shame that here’s another leftist oriented blog whose regulars can’t refrain from personally attacking a poster whom they disagree with. If you want a pissing match, Mr. Aqualung, fine, but it’s not going to advance or validate your agenda. It will only degrade it.
Valerie Plame was a low level operative and her “outing” was, in reality, of minimal consequence. Pork barrel spending is not exclusive to the GOP. I need only cite Teddy Kennedy’s “Big Dig” as an example.
The rest of your reply is a lot of hysterical and paranoid nonsense. Voter fraud has been proven to have minimal impact on elections.
http://www.demos.org/page197.cfm
I note that you say nothing about the trillions of dollars wasted on the so-called War on Poverty since 1964. That’s 43 years of goverment spending vs. the War on Islamo-fascism, which has only been conducted since 2002. The fact is that poverty and its adjuncts still exist. Islamo-fascism is a real and viable threat to American security and American interests. America has not been attacked by Islamo-fascists since 2001, so that in itself is a clear and viable result.
The movement to deny gay marriage is not “criminalization.” Get your terminology corrected and stop dealing in hyperbole.
now, now, jethro, you know you’re not supposed to feed them.
In politics, it’s all about acquiring and maintaining power. The GOP does it by coddling big business, the Dems do it by coddling the poor and minorities.
If I’m going to put my money on a winning horse, it wouldn’t be on the poor and minorities.
I have to laugh at those who invest their dreams and hopes on what the government must do to ensure their prosperity or happiness.
“I want to make clear that there is an opposition in America and that we are ready to take power and that when we do, we are going to have much better relationships with them.”
This is a quote from DNC chair Hward Dean.
Apologies for posting this twice, because my first attempt did not make it.
Note the use of the word POWER. Can anyone say that the Dems are any different from the GOP? It’s all about acquiring and maintaining power. The GOP does it by coddling big business, the Dems do it by coddling the poor and minorities.
If I’m going to put my money on a winning horse, it wouldn’t be on the poor and minorities.
Note Dean’s use of the word RELATIONSHIPS, which is a euphemism for cronyism in this case. The GOP sucks up to Vincente Fox. The Dems suck up to Kofi Annan. What’s the difference?
The rest of your reply is a lot of paranoid and hysterical nonsense….
Now, Mr. Black, take each one of my statements, and with facts and not spin, address each of them. No bullshit, no Foxaganda talking points. Address each and every one, and prove that they are paranoid (???) and hysterical (you are the hysterical one) and nonsense. This you cannot do.
The GOP maintains power by breaking the law.
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security…
In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.
Time to Declare Independence!