While the Bush Administration imploded from yet another scandal, the President was visiting Brazil, Uruguay, Columbia, Guatemala and Mexico to promote free trade and let his hosts know how much he cares about their people. As expected anti-Bush protests dogged the trip, but as Tuesday's NYT reported, the President encountered an unexpected level of anger in Guatemala because of something egregious that happened in Massachusetts last week. Massachusetts?
GUATEMALA CITY, March 12 — President Bush came to this struggling Central American nation on Tuesday bearing a message that free trade with the United States would improve conditions for even the poorest Latin Americans.
But he was also confronted with an angry, outside-in perspective on the immigration debate raging at home, with even his otherwise friendly host, President Óscar Berger, using a ceremonial welcome to criticize the arrest of several hundred illegal workers, many of them Guatemalans, in Massachusetts last week.
Pachacutec, Christy and others posted articles on roundups by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) of suspected illegal immigrants that occurred last December. Last week’s ICE raid occurred in New Bedford, Massachusetts and inflamed not only the affected families and immigrant community but many State officials. The Boston Globe reported the terror and panic during the raid, and this original AP report discussed what happened to their children:
NEW BEDFORD, Mass. –Dozens of young children were stranded at schools and with baby sitters after their parents were rounded up by federal authorities who raided a leather goods maker suspected of hiring illegal immigrants, authorities said Wednesday.Gov. Deval Patrick said the children of the detainees — most of whom are from Guatemala and El Salvador — might not be receiving proper care. However, federal immigration officials insisted they coordinated with state social service agencies in advance to prepare for child care.
"We are particularly concerned about the Guatemalan community and the risk that they may be fearful about disclosing the existence or whereabouts of their children given their history with government agencies," Patrick wrote in a letter asking U.S. Rep. William Delahunt to ensure federal authorities allow social workers access to the detainees.
Immigration officials said 327 of the 500 employees of Michael Bianco Inc., mostly women, were detained Tuesday for possible deportation as illegal aliens.
About 100 children were stuck with baby sitters, caretakers and others, said Corinn Williams, director of the Community Economic Development Center of Southeastern Massachusetts.
"We're continuing to get stories today about infants that were left behind," she said. "It's been a widespread humanitarian crisis here in New Bedford."
ICE officials insisted that no children were stranded and that ICE had coordinated with State social service agencies, but that claim was exaggerated. [Maybe not: see UPDATE below] Frustrated State officials went to federal court to force ICE to allow the State to find out what was happening to affected parents and children. Last Friday, a federal judge ordered ICE officials to cooperate with the State in helping to identify and locate the stranded children.
Before the State could get an accurate accounting of how many children were stranded and where, ICE rendered the captured parents to Texas for possible deportation. That forced the State DSS to fly teams to Texas to interview the captured parents. By this weekend, DSS was still identifying cases of single parents, ill children or children with special needs. And some children may still be unaccounted for.
DSS social workers said detainees told them they feared for their children in Massachusetts. The children range in age from infants to a 17-year-old, and include a disabled 4-year-old girl who requires a feeding tube and 2-year-old boy with a respiratory ailment.
Some detainees told DSS workers that their children were with baby-sitters relatives, or friends. Some did not know where they were, according to DSS workers who interviewed more than 200 detainees this weekend in Port Isabel Detention Center, near Harlingen, and another center in El Paso.
DSS Commissioner Harry Spence said he was "extremely upset and angry" that immigration officials whisked the detainees, mostly women, out of Massachusetts on Wednesday before these cases were discovered.
"If the department had been given access to the detainees at Fort Devens on Tuesday night, as we consistently requested, then a great deal of this could have been avoided," Spence said in Harlingen. "The threats to the children's safety that the federal action caused could have been greatly diminished."
Now you know why the Guatemalans seemed incredulous when Bush proclaimed, "No es verdad! I care." "Stop the deportations," they answered.
UDPATE: A commenter from Boston notes a Boston Globe article this a.m. which reveals that State officials were briefed about the upcoming raids well in advance. There seems more than enough blame to go around.
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scarecrow!!!!
This is such a horrid story. Hopefully it will put the ICE program on ice for the duration until some sensible people can fix the system. This should never happen.
Dig deeper and you find out about the hack, Julie Myers that was confirmed to run this program.
Brownie redux.
I’m picturing a child with special needs for medication or with autism or some other circumstance which requires consistency in care — and how something like this could cause so many problems for them. And then I think about the fact that ICE clearly did not coordinate with state aid agencies on social services, because a lot of that would have been identified up front. And I wonder how it is, exactly, that Michael Chertoff still has a job — Katrina and Brownie, missing money in the billions, and now stranded infants all over the country. Lovely. Just freaking lovely.
Thanks scarecrow, for an infuriating post.
Good morning, Scarecrow. This is heart-breaking and infuriating.
Family values !
great post Scarecrow
Good morning everyone. This is your ICE agent. Those of you who can prove you are citizens, line up over there. Those of you who cannot, line up over here. Don’t worry, your children will be taken care of.
The post is not loading for some reason. I got here through the RSS feed. Is it not supposed to be up yet?
RevDeb @
7
It’s supposed to be, but it’s not loading. We have “top people” working on this. “Who?” “Top people.”
Thanks, Scarecrow —
This is just one more example of the culture of contempt that the Bush Admin and their minions have for anyone not in their circle of elites.
The Hall of Shame that will be this president’s “liberry” touches every value and segment of this country.
This morning on Imus, Matalin bitchin’ that the Libby jury was all liberal democrats and green-card carriers and they still all want him pardoned [check it out later at wfan.com in their Instant Replay]. I give Imus credit for his persistence on WR.
Yesterday, Gonzales welling up at the prospect that he might be held to account.
The ratz are cornered. And they know it.
I refreshed the last thread and noted a new thread so followed the link at the top of Late Night.
Prairie Sunshine @ 10
At least you can get there. My comments on TRex thread end at #300 or so. There must be millions of fdlers floating helplessly in hyperspace. “The horror, the horror.”
senator kennedy went to new bedford and wrote a diary (posted at dkos and bluemassgroup) on this subject – he also focused on the families being ripped apart.
selise @
12
Yes, Kennedy and other state officials have been dogging this, but these ICE people can’t be shamed. Thanks for the link.
Chris Wallace now doing Pravda duty for the Bush Admin on Imus talking about the US attys. [He loves Roger Ailes.]
“Clinton got rid of all but one of the attys…”
Yeah, tool, at the start of his term. Like Reagan and all other administrations do….
Anybody keeping a scorecard on how closely these guys parrot the Repub talking points? Rayne? Bueller?
This is what you get when your top law enforcement officials are political appointees rotating in and out to pad their resumes.
I have mentally thanked James Comey numerous times for the appointment of Patrick Fitzgerald to the investigation of Valerie Plame’s outing. He selected someone who was competent and thorough.
He didn’t select a Bush-Cheney Young Republican type.
The part that really gets me is what these children will think of the U.S. years from now when they are adults. Is this completely amoral behavior breeding anti-U.S. terrorists of the future, just as it surely is in Iraq?
scarecrow – if they had any shame they would have given DSS access to the detained parents (to find out what support was needed for their children) before shipping the parents out of state.
now, i don’t think there should have been a raid in the first place…. but the way it was done was completely insane – or more accurately, vindictive and cruel.
ok, who pissed off the Great God of the Toobz?
I tried to find any mention of this on Lou Dobbs; found one story on CNN, after the Bush/Guatemala story, but not on Dobbs, but I’m not that hot with Teh Google.
jayt @ 17
We may need another goat from Marion.
Prairie Sunshine (14) — I think Litigatormom had a DailyKos diary that thoroughly dissected that “Clinton Did It” talking point. It’s important to keep in mind that Karl Rove delivered that particular talking point as an innoculation over the impending disclosure that Harriet Miers had considered firing 93 US Attorneys in 2005 — when it would have made no sense to do so, since the same administration was going to be in place.
IMPORTANT: the talking point emerging today is:
“Democrats are upset because the U.S. Attorneys were fired for not prosecuting Democrats.”
We need to be prepared to push back and HARD on this talking point. Have already seen two different outlets use it in the last 4 hours, too, watch for it as it picks up steam. We may yet get suffocate it if we get to work early.
We already know that the real problem is that they were obstructing investigations into virtually everything by dismissing these USA’s, and that’s a slap in the face of the American public.
Just a fly-by this morning, gotta go out soon, but as I recall there was a similar out-of-state transfer with the Swift abductees. At the time someone (Mary? can’t recall) said that transporting them across state lines does something special, can’t recall what.
These raids are well thought out. They are test-driving their new prisons, training their adbuction teams and prison staff, and getting all of us used to having our neighbors disappear without a trace.
What a nightmare. Any suggestions on things we can do?
Right out in front of the middle, Hillary is now calling for Gonzales’ resignation.
Hillary on Good Morning America
mui @ 22
Hearings, hearings, hearings. Contact your Congress critters. And your media. I’ve seen very little on this story outside the Boston area.
RevDeb & Scarecrow is there any word in MA what is going on with the poor kids? Anyway for us regular folks to help?
Scarecrow, I have contacted Chris Dodd, Rosa Delauro and heard nothing.
I have also spotlighted articles to the local media pointing out that this all goes under HoJoe’s DHS.
HotFlash @
21
IANAL, but I think once they are moved across the border, these detainees are federalized and are no longer in the reach of state laws.
Any attorneys out there this morning?
mui @ 25
The articles in the post suggest that the State DSS is doing all they can to account for kids, reunite some with parents and to negotiate with the ICE in their veins officials about releasing the worst hardship detainees. The problem is the policy and the leadership, and to fix that we need pressure on Congress and the media until the Bush Administration is gone — just like every other problem the country faces.
mui @ 27
Yes — this is Lieberman’s responsibility to oversee.
Great Post Scarecrow!
This is same kind of stuff that happened in the fall with the Swift Meat Packing plant raids across the Plains States. Parent seperated from children. A very Christian Nation we are, Blessed are the weak and all that stuff. It seems to work only if you are conservative evangelical.
There must a be a better way.
mui @ 25
I’ve been away from the local newspapers for most of a week so I haven’t seen any hints of what we can do. Teddy is on it. DSS (dept. of social services) is all over it, but that, traditionally, isn’t saying much. If I find out something, I’ll let you know. One of our local blogs is covering it, BlueMassGroup is posting as is Below Boston. But there’s not much there.
Scarecrow, I am so frustrated. Trying to bring this to the attention of our congresscritters and media is like shouting at a brick wall. I am very concerned for the kids, the parents etc.
I’m really glad you hit this.
Scarecrow @ 19
Wow – you can plug a goat into your server? That’s gotta be a strange looking port. I find mysel feeling embarassed for the goat.
My machine only has a hamster port. Though once, I substituted a gerbil – it worked, but the increase in download-time was unacceptable.
Oh come on, we know family values are only about the treatment of white Christians living in redstates.
The rest of the people are Godless heathens.
-GSD
Thanks Scarecrow. We are getting to the Martin Niemoller point in America aren’t we.
We had similar problems in Iowa right before Christmas with families torn apart. Luckily our decent Senator Harkin has been all over it. This is another issue that needs airing. Thanks for your excellent work on this Scarecrow.
A heartbreaking post, but thanks anyway, Scarecrow. Grown-ups can deal with the cruelty of this Administration but kids…?
Cruising the toobz this morning this song came up:
“When the day is long and the night, the night is yours alone,
When you’re sure you’ve had enough of this life, well hang on.
Dont let yourself go, everybody cries and everybody hurts sometimes.
Sometimes everything is wrong. now its time to sing along.
When your day is night alone, (hold on, hold on)
If you feel like letting go, (hold on)
When you think you’ve had too much of this life, well hang on.
Everybody hurts. take comfort in your friends.
Everybody hurts. don’t throw your hand. oh, no. don’t throw your hand.
If you feel like you’re alone, no, no, no, you are not alone
If you’re on your own in this life, the days and nights are long,
When you think you’ve had too much of this life to hang on.
Well, everybody hurts sometimes,
Everybody cries. and everybody hurts sometimes.
And everybody hurts sometimes. so, hold on, hold on.
Hold on, hold on. hold on, hold on. hold on, hold on”
This REM song (which I recently learned means Remember Every Moment) touches my heart everytime I hear, or read, it. It just seems appropriate this morning.
The Julie Myers story is NOT being told. We need to pump that one up.
more here.
This is part of the ongoing saga of intentional appointments of people who do bad deeds. The “incompetent” meme doesn’t work anymore. This is done with malice aforethought.
To be very blunt, the immigration issued has been so hyped and immigrants, legal or illegal, have been so demonized that these poor folks could have been sent to Texas in boxcars and I don’t think most people would care a whit.
-GSD
AZ Matt @ 31
Yeah, what did Jesus say? “Suffer the little children to come unto me . . .” [RevDeb faints dead away!] In this regime, it’s been reduced to “Suffer the little children.”
The Bushies talk free trade, but they don’t mean it. They think it’s only about allowing the free flow of goods and services, and the free movement of capital — and profits — so that investors can seek the highest returns. There’s an economic theory that says this can lead to the greater good, an efficient solution, but there’s a piece missing in their political calculation. Free trade must also mean the free movement of labor — people need to be free to move to places with jobs with the highest wages and benefits. That’s exactly why Guatemalans were in New Bedford. They believe in free trade, but Bush doesn’t. There isn’t a politician in the country that talks about that piece.
The AP report appeared in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution last week. The next day, a letter to the editor referred to it complaining that the focus of the article was on the stranded children and not “where it should be” – the “illegals.”
you know what?
the president actually said he wouldn’t give certain sercurity personel the right to form a union in America…I forget which industry that was but that is just unbelieveable this man can continue to hold office with statements as anti American as that
as far as free trade in this story;
it’s fine to allow for free trade, but NOT with countries that don’t allow collective bargaining for their workforce
when a bussiness gets to tell a work force what they are going to pay for resources they need to buy instead of the resource demanding market value, you get a rober baron society
America cannot compete with robber baron economics and we CANNOT have free trade where there is no collective bargaining
that’s what tarrifs are for, to insure an equal playing field, that’s how we grow the middle class across the country, by saying;
you want to do bussiness in America, you let your workforce bargain for their correct market value, you don’t get to tell the resources you need to purchase what you are going to pay, you negotiate the correct price for both industries”
just my little rant before I go to work
I think I also asked moveon.org to do something as well.
Pachacutec @ 34
Pach, I was going to send the stories to you, since you did those great posts on the first raids back in December — and drove the wingnuts crazy — and I was going to work on the A*P*AC issue. I love what you did yesterday.
oh, off topic and developing on raw story so keep going back there for this;
sorry crow to go off topic so soon but I do have to go to work…forgive?
Minnesota Public Radio this morning during Morning Edition had a heartbreaking story of homeless children in the Twin Cities area:
You can also listen to it here.
Good Morning Scarecrow and Firedogs -
amen RevDeb -
here is committee link – notice the committee itself doesn’t have an e mail link – but there is contact info for indiv. members
Senate DHS Comm.
But…but…compassionate conservatism!
They wouldn’t let the state social services interview detainees in Massachusetts to see if there were humanitarian cases. I think that pretty much says it all.
Oh and “vests”? Do you mean for body armor? That would be an interesting twist.
Lieberman needs some pressure to investigate here.
There are groups such American Friends Service Committee and probably Catholic Social Services that have worked with immigrant communities that would probably welcome support on theses issues. The raids get headlines but immigrant rights groups need support year round.
perris -
this is probably what Raw Story is working on -
2 anonymous Repubs. imply rift btw WH & Abu
Hot Republican on Republican action
oh and my guess is it’s Specter and Hatch ;)
cbl (48) — thanks for that, but I’ll see you and I’ll raise you.
Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs
Pachacutec @ 34
What Pach said. Great post on a sad, infuriating subject.
And if the state investigators turn up any dead children (see Christy’s comment @ 3) . . . words fail me.
As heart-wrenching as the story is, I’m afraid I have little compassion for the women who CHOSE to come to the United States illegally. They knew what they were doing was illegal, they did it anyhow.
Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time.
Being separated from your children is a terrible thing to experience, and these women should have thought of that possibility before they CHOSE to enter the country illegally. There are quite clear methods set in place for entering this country LEGALLY, and had they followed those methods, they’d be at home with the kids right this moment.
When the VERY FIRST ACT that someone performs upon setting foot in this country is to break it’s law because it is “inconvenient” or “too hard”, or because they “want a better life”, there is nothing at all that tells me that they will not continue to break laws that are “inconvenient”, “too hard”, or that hinder what they consider to be “a better life”.
Perhaps they want my house. Why not just move right in? You want a better life, right? Or steal my car – it’s “too hard” to save up to buy one! Or maybe just walk out of the store without paying – because paying is inconvenient.
Oh, and for the few of you who want to jump on me and scream “racist” – I feel the same way about illegal Polish or Rumanian trespassers. This isn’t a race or skin-color issue. This is an issue of whether you obey the law or not.
These women broke the law and CHOSE to take the chance of being separated from their family, in order to take jobs away from the local LEGAL residents and citizens.
I have no sympathy.
Scarecrow: the Drum Major Institute has some really good new resources on immigration. I’ve been meaning to link to them, but I’ll send an email to you, too, in case you have time to get there first.
Great post Scarecrow.
Once again, Republicants are using bulldozers to peel grapes. The evidence is so overwhelming that Bush has no clue how to run a country.
After the Scooter verdict, I suffered a mild form of post-partum depression. Dems getting in bed with Pox snooze, War machine in Iraq advancing unabated, and the feeling of a flaccid Democratic controlled congress.
Then Abu Gonzo taking responsibility for “mistakes were made” (the Bushco motto) for things he had no idea of happening in the firing of USAs.
Now we have jack-booted thugs tearing babies away from their mothers breast.
I sent you an email, scarecrow, though I know you’ve not been getting my emails lately. Weird.
Sewmouse,
Damn right you have no sympathy. Many who come had a choice between starvation and a better life…what used to be called the American Dream.
sewmouse, there is an effective method to deal with illegal immigrants, not only is it effective, it actually MAKES money for our economy rather then cost the money of this type of enforcement
jail and fine the employers if illegal aliens, this takes NO resources, they DO NOT become enforcement officials like they corporate media tries to claim
bing, done, no illegal imigration problem at all…none, nada, zilcho, zero
the problem is the corporation ceo’s that contribute to campaigns are the ones that will get jailed
so the corporations need to stop doing the crime or get punished…this way we don’t have to do what you are suggesting is fine and dandy
get it?
Hi, folks. First time poster here. Loved the Libby coverage (Pulitzer! Pulitzer!), and still trying to scrape up some PayPal lovin’ for y’all.
But – I have a coal to throw on the fire here. A big, fat irony of the New Bedford ICE raid has to do with where these people were working when they were nabbed.
They were working in a sweatshop that had a US Department of Defense contract to make leather goods for the military. Local media here (I’m pretty sure the Globe has this one) have stated that Massachusetts officials warned the DoD of the sweatshop conditions before the granting of the contract, but they were ignored. Guess Halliburton already had their quota, or maybe they don’t “do” leather.
More embers – local TV stations (WCVB 5, at least) ran a story yesterday following the actions of two public-interest type lawyers who had accompanied two of the single mothers to the Federal Building here in Boston to see if they could get any movement on their cases. According to the televised report, the two women in question were kept waiting in the lobby for over eight hours, because, in the words of one of the attorneys, “they (Fed immigration officials) didn’t know how to proceed.”
We know they hate illegals, despite “loving the little brown ones.”
But why do they hate the troops? Why do this in their name?
I saw a great bumper sticker the other day: No child left a dime.
Bush’s America is a heartless, greedy and punitative place!
itwasntme @ 61
only punitive if you are not a wealthy republican…otherwise anything you do is fine
Ackkkk!!! Should be Chris Wallace in my #14 Mods, please fix and delete this. Thanks.
…I meant “punitive”. Sorry, early morning fingers here.
Sewmouse @ 54
What would compel you to leave your homeland, your other family members? Would you have to be utterly desperate to take a job where you have no guarantees or security, where you are treated like a slave?
I suspect you’ve never really felt that kind of desperation and have no real ken of the circumstances that would drive human beings to take such risks.
o/t
Rayne – if you’re still here – have you gone down the Scott Jennings e-mail addy rabbit hole in your USA work yet ?
Pachacutec @ 57
I haven’t received anything from you. There are no toobz between your computer and mine. Can’t explain it.
Rayne @
20
Rayne, I’m catching up after a brief dash-away, such is life in a disability household.
I recognized the talking point Tool Chis WALLACE used on Imus this morning, immediately wrote an email to the Imus show before commenting here.
That’s what we’ve got to do, folks. Push back. Fast and hard. Rapid response in real time. Shove their frickin’ playbook right up their arses.
Scarecrow @ 67
scarecrow – have you checked your spam filter? (just a thought, ‘cuz it’s happened to me)
cbl @
51
Hmmmmm. What can you say to this?
As far as I’m concerned, there’s no way in hell to erode the president’s credibility on any issue.
Henry from Boston @
60
Welcome, Henry from Boston, and thanks for adding that angle to the story.
selise — yep, Pach is not spam. It’s inexplicable. He sends an e-mail to the group, and everyone but me receives it. If someone replies to his e-mail, using his list, I see the reply and his original embedded. But I can’t receive anything directly from Pach. Howdaya splain that?
Sewmouse has a point.
“These women” did break the law. Just as the junkies who live with their horrible addictions are breaking the law. Maybe they should just stop shooting heroin, after all they chose to do so. Or perhaps the millions of children across the country who have no health insurance. Didn’t their parents choose to go without it? Maybe the injured vets didn’t choose to end up at Walter Reed, but they did choose to join the Armed Forces. Shouldn’t they, and their wives and kids, just suck it up and deal with their hardships?
Blaming the victim is the solution of choice for the virtuous and perfect. The victims just need to take responsibility for THEIR actions, after all it’s their own damn fault.
You tell me Sewmouse, is that compassionate conservatism? Is that justice?
“give me you tired, your poor,
your huddled masses yearning to breath free”
guess that idea just doesn’t cut it any more, but that was back in the day when the Statue of Liberty was a symbol of what America stood for.
jayt @ 17
Eli
cbl – left a follow up towards the end of the last thread on that email addy.
I am wondering how it is that any official working in the White House uses a private email resource for public business, let alone political business…?
Wigwam @ 70
How do you erode sand?
Rayne @ 65
Want to see the issue from the other side of the mirror? What it might be like to be in one of those families, feel that kind of poverty driven, blind alley desperation?
Try renting a truly excellent film on the subject called “EL Norte.” Prof. Rudy Acuna @ Cal State Northridge showed it in my education class sooo many years ago. I’ve never forgotten the ensuing discussion. There are other great movies about immigration issues, but this one…well, just have a look @ a different perspective than us v. them.
btw, the first link in the post — this one — is to another excellent editorial from the NYT — this one focused on Gonzales. It’s definitely worth the read.
Read the post, great and prescient as usual, Scarecrow, but I haven’t had a chance to read all the comments. Therefore, I don’t know if anybody has mentioned Cenk Uygur of the Young Turks appearance on Olbermann last night. He mentioned something that either I didn’t know or had forgotten about. That is that Doug Feith seemed to think it was a good idea after 9/11 to attack Paraguay, Argentina and Brazil, because “they’ll never see it coming.” I looked it up on the internet, and sure enough, here’s the link.
Our government is fond of putting little kids in jail, isn’t it?
Scarecrow @ 79
Thanks, Scarecrow!
Scarecrow,
Try setting up a different kind of email. Like if you are using gmail now, sign up with yahoo or something and see if the problem persists.
You might have more than one spam filter on your computer. Do your spams get zapped immediately, or do they go sit in detention in a delete folder? We have now come to the end of my knowledge of computers.
Calling Shez?
Phoenix Woman @ 81
And wasn’t it John Yoo who said it’s okay to torture them, as well?
GSD, thanks for your Niemoller mention. On point.
Is something weird still going on with the site. I could go no further with my last comment, because I could not reach the last thing I had written once I put the link in. I was just going to say I’ll leave it to everyone to draw their own conclusions as to whether there is any limit to the insanity of this administration or what effects that insanity will have on our neighbors to the south or the rest of the world.
Yes, it was Yoo. It’s okay for our government to crush their testicles.
Link:
http://www.informationclearing…..e11488.htm
Rayne @
65
Well said, Rayne — I honestly hope that our visitor never has to choose between leaving his/her children in poverty and risking going to jail. Even a scarecrow can recognize a no-brainer. Why can’t all humans?
“I have no sympathy” is the Administration’s slogan. It is hard to understand why so many rally to it, why they think it is consistent with America, why it is moral or Christian, but they do.
Prairie Sunshine @
85
Gracias.
Also, this raid was so botched that the resident rightwinger at the Globe, Jeff Jacoby comes out swinging over the cruelty and ineptitude of this horror show.
-GSD
egregious — I see my spam and delete it. Another address is probably the solution.
I need to add you to the post, and I think I have 3 words left. Refresh in a minute or so.
scarecrow:
Can Pach get email from you?
Ann,
From the Feith memo, perhaps the most stunningly apparent piece to stick out.
“The memo suggested “hitting targets outside the Middle East in the initial offensive” or a “non-Al Qaeda target like Iraq,” the panel’s report states. U.S. attacks in Latin America and Southeast Asia were portrayed as a way to catch the terrorists off guard when they were expecting an assault on Afghanistan.”
-GSD
GSD @ 89
Good catch. I usually can’t stand to read Jacoby so I missed that.
Biodun @ 91
dunno. Pach?
scarecrow,
try setting up a g-mail account and use that one for FDL stuff.
I get scarecrow’s emails, but he doesn’t get my replies.
He hates me.
Henry from Boston,
Wanna join up with our MA/FDL google group? Let me know.
mc @ 87
Helluva swell fellow, that Professor Yoo.
RevDeb @ 32
O.K. I’ve bookmarked them.
I see an empty comment at #96, but there’s no text. Anyone else see anything?
“Something egregious happened”:
MUCH better. Thank you.
Even the winger at the Globe got it this time, they have gone too far.
Scarecrow @ 100
LOL
I am in Texas and the illegal immigrants are generally welcomed here and actually make it possible for many to have workers they overwise could not afford. There is a lady cleaning the house I visit as we speak. And the people who trimmed the trees were immigrants as well, as were the men who are fixing the living room floor.
All of these people have families. The republicans want to keep the illegal immigrants to fuel their non-union economy and then use the issue against immigrants to rile their base. Idiots.
Wigwam @ 98
Oh please tell me that guy didn’t get tenure.
Scarecrow @ 72
i do not know. must ask senator ted stevens.
seriously… are you sure there isn’t a spam filter – one that is somewhat porous (some spam gets through – that you see and delete) while some non-spam email (pach) gets caught?
GrandmaJ @ 103
Jeebus *eyes rolling* We’re a nation of immigrants. What’s the big f*ing deal?
The raid caused Chumpy some hassles on his lamely recieved “I Am Still Relevant and a Nice Guy Tour 2007″.
George W. Bush, pissing away American goodwill since 9/11/2001.
-GSD
If the mafia pays to have a prosecutor who’s interfering with their revenue removed from office, that’s racketeering. So, what is it, when “GOP contributors,” who are involved in illegal activities, request and obtain the removal of a prosecutor?
“All of these people have families. The republicans want to keep the illegal immigrants to fuel their non-union economy and then use the issue against immigrants to rile their base. Idiots.”
Yet people claim Karl Rove is a genius.
Go figure.
-GSD
Rayne – you have mail
Happy Π Day !
Mui at 106, not sure who you were pointing the “What’s the big f*ucking deal?” at? I was complaining that the republicans want it both ways and as you say we are a nation of immigrants. The republicans are the idiots.
Just to claify if I was confusing. What is definitely a probability.
mui @ 104
He’s a full professor at Berkeley, and a fellow of the AEI.
Totally OT- Conrad Black jury selection started today:
http://cbs2chicago.com/topstor…..65308.html
RevDeb @97 –
Umm, sure. Pardon the ignorance, but what’s a “google group”?
Wigwam @ 112
This combination does not compute for me.
O/T – was having trouble pulling any of Christy’s posts about National Security Letters from the archives last night – anyone ?
mui @ 106
You know, mui, when I hear comments like that Sewmouse left, I want to get on some righteous anger.
You see, as a person of indigenous heritage, all non-indigenous people are illegal aliens, trespassers who squatted and took possession illegally of other peoples’ property.
What entitles America to deny to others what it took for itself?
I think I mentioned the concept of “American exceptionalism” yesterday; this is another example. Nobody can move freely – except Americans. Nobody can flee injustice – except Americans. Nobody can occupy another sovereign nation – except Americans.
Gah. How did this come to pass?
March 14th, 2007 at 6:00 am
Rayne says:
Prairie Sunshine (14) —
I can see it now: “So does this mean that you’re conceding the point that justice is not being meted out fairly and in a balanced manner? You’re admitting that politics is playing a strong part in serving up justice. You’re using the Justice Department to go after opponents in an effort to criminalize politics. Wouldn’t that be considered Abuse of Power?”
Henry from Boston @
114
Last year we were getting grass groups together to do boots on the ground actions in our various states. We put together 44 groups as we had activists in 44 states. We were working on some new organizing tools but they got back burnered because of the focus on the Libby trial.
Anyway we have about 50 folks in MA on an e-mail group that we send out notices of planned senate visits and a variety of other gatherings. Last summer/fall a number of us volunteered for Ned Lamont’s campaign. We’re a friendly group and some of us even get together to party.
If you want in, send me an e-mail at my name at mac dot com.
Pachacutec @ 96
Then something in scarecrow’s email system is somehow filtering out Pach’s user ID and domain name.
cbl @ 116
FDL’s tech guys were fixing some things last night, after the interruptions, and they were still working on a few glitches this a.m., one of which kept this post from coming on line as scheduled for many of you. Those on RSS feeds saw it; others didn’t.
Just a warning: a failure to load could happen again. Christy’s next post is due about 11:00, so be looking for it. We’ll know then whether the glitches are fixed.
Scarecrow/Pach
I blame Clinton.
scarecrow and Pach:
Go to this site for troubleshooting email problems.
Biodun @ 120
Ah, that’s helpful; I’ll check. Tell Pach I love him. We all love him.
GrandmaJ @103 & mui @106
You’ll have to ask the Texas Legislature (aka “the Lege”) what the big f*ing deal is.
While I grew up here in Boston, and have returned, I spent 21 years in Austin.
It being an odd numbered year (”lock up your daughters and hide your wallets”), the biennial Lege is in session in Austin. I read in the Awful-American Statesman that the Lege, in its wisdom, is considering legislation to strip all children of illegals in Texas of all health care and education benefits.
One thing the Lege is good at is cutting off their noses to spite their faces. That, and grandstanding with preposterous legislation like this.
I moved to Austin in 1984. In the first week on my first job, I encountered a nattily dressed and coiffed woman in the coffee break room and overheard her making vile remarks about “Messkins.”
I said, “You know, my grandparents didn’t speak English when they drove over the border.” Her mouth dropped open, partially at my “cheek,” and also because I am very pale white, with green eyes. “They came from Canada,” I continued with a wink, “and they spoke French.”
“Well, that’s different!” she huffed, still bug-eyed. “Why,” I retorted, “because I’m white?” She blanched, stuttered as if about to say something, then turned on her heel and stormed out of the room. She never spoke to me again, and I was a marked man at that job from that day forward. I hadn’t known better, at the time.
Thanks for the head’s up, Scarecrow.
Don’t forget windcatpond.blogspot.com for updates in case of a crash, or Gabbly.com/firedoglake.com as Gabbly will load for chat even if FDL site doesn’t.
Scarecrow, is there a way to add Pach to a mailing list in your email system? Depending on sophistication of system, it could permit Pach if it sees his addy as “preferred”.
Might also consider getting a freebie Yahoo or Gmail account for a backup. I have a handful I use for many different purposes.
Troubleshooting:
11:00 am. What time zone?
If you have reloading problems, try doing “refresh” in this thread then look at the top for the link >> to the next thread and click thru. That worked for me earlier this morning.
Scarecrow, does your email server have a safe list? If so, is Pach’s email info entered in your safe list?
Scarecrow @ 124:
See my 123.
Henry from Boston -
Welcome to the Lake -
Our Beloved Molly Ivins referred to the ‘Lege as the world’s largest laboratory for bad ideas :)
Scarecrow – thanks, I wouldn’t have connected the two ;0
I’m going to find my spam/not safe list. I may have accidentally banished him during my “unenlightend period,” which I find occurs about twice every Friedman Unit.
Scarecrow and Pach:
If either of you is geeky you might also go to this site.
completely OT – but has anyone heard how steve gilliard is doing? i thought he was supposed to have his surgery (to sew him back up) yesterday…but didn’t see an update from jen, and now his site is down.
was hoping that someone on the townhouse list might have some inside info…pach, christy, scarecrow,…?
selise – I can get in, but can’t see any updates yet. Gilliard
‘I care’ means ‘this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you’ which means ‘I care’
JF @ 115
Punaise and I have had this conversation about Yoo before. I believe Punaise referred to Yoo as a “stain” on an otherwise fine institution of higher learning.
Bill Clinton’s p*nis fired 93 attorneys too! The Librul Media won’t report that!
-GSD
cbl @ 133
thanks, back up for me now too.
hoping for good news today.
mc @ 135
Perhaps he could best be described as a “taint”–as in, the anatomical region between the dick and the ass.
Henry from Boston @
125
My recent similar story was with a new acquaintance who was Republican who was talking about Bill Clinton. Then of course the Lewinsky matter. He talked about reports of Bill’s penis shape.
I stopped and said, why are you spending so much time thinking about another mans penis.
He quickly dropped the “angle angle” and shuffled away ending the conversation.
-GSD
Sewmouse @ 54:
1. So you don’t have any sympathy for the parents. How are the kids to blame? They don’t make the decision to come here. Why do they deserve this kind of abuse and terror?
2. You claim that illegal immigrants are taking jobs away from American citizens. Nonsense. Illegal and underpaid-legal immigrants are doing jobs that native-born Americans refuse to do. If you investigate even slightly, you’ll find, for instance, that agriculture in this country would fail completely without workers from south of the border. Recent immigration crackdowns have caused some farmers to run out of workers—and you know those vegetables and fruits don’t just sit in the field and wait patiently to be collected. They must be harvested at the right time, or you don’t get any salad and orange juice. In my state, some growers have requested to have state prisoners assigned to work for them—they’re having trouble finding immigrant workers, and any American citizen *not* in prison won’t do that backbreaking work for the near-slave wages paid in this business. If the jobs taken by illegal immigrants were all filled by Americans, you wouldn’t be able to afford to eat anything, at home or in a restaurant. Period. We are *all* eating, quite literally, off the backs of underpaid, exploited immigrant workers.
I invite you to go do some of the work being done by these immigrants, and then report back to us on how they’re stealing “our” jobs.
Christy has A NEW THREAD
OT–but related:
Rift between White House and Gonzo. From the NYTimes:
Scarecrow @ 140:
I don’t see it.
EPU’d from last thread but definitely on topic:
Rift between White House and Gonzo. From the NYTimes:
New Thread – go to the top of this comment page and click on link to Christy’s post
mc @
135
And you’re probably not referring to the AEI. ;-)
JF @
115
Nor for many of his colleagues at Berkeley, I’m sure.
EPU’d for sure… delayed, writing letters… honestly(!)
Good Morning Scarecrow. ;->
I’ll have to catch the comments later, but I read every word of your post & links. Unbelievable!
Will this administration EVER learn??? We obviously can’t just sit around and wait to see.
Announcing, “I care” is their ultimate insult, and basically an admission that they don’t have a clue, or a care, about the rest of the world outside their own comfy little bubble.
This administration continues to be a festering sore and an unmitigated disaster for our nation and the world. But maybe I shouldn’t mince words.
Your posts are absolutely wonderful, & so helpful in arming/enabling us to pester effectively. So-o-o. Off I go….
Thanks! ;->
Sewmouse, I hope you have the same “law and order” attitude towards the employers who also break the law by hiring undocumented workers. Are you aware that the owners and managers in the New Bedford case, although arrested and charged, are out on bail. In addition they get to complete their US Govt. contract and are not required to disgorge any payments they have already received.
Illegal immigration is a complex issue, but the logical starting point is to crack down on employers. This would reduce the demand. The weakening of labor laws and regulations designed to protect workers is also a direct cause of these situations.
Smarty-pants, Rove.
Scarecrow @ 121
Is it tinfoil hat time yet? I am having serious issues with my webhosting clients having to do with temp files not being deleted so their server space keeps increasing until it busts the quota. I believe this was due to a cPanel or similar upgrade which no longer did a routine deletion of temp files. Once over quota you are sunk — cannot even delete files, you get a write error ‘cannot delete – over quota’ b/c there is no place to swap to. This may simply be incompetence or it may have been a time bomb. My local cable’s e-mail has been down off and on, too, w no explanation.
My hosts servers are in GA, I cannot get support from them on this, not even a ‘ YOur support request has been received, here is your ticket ID, please etc.’ I suspect they were bought out, but that does not explain the lack of support.
If we lose the net, we lose our five senses. Stay safe, but get phone numbers and other contact info when you can. We may need them. Oy!
jim oconnor @ 149
Mr O’Connor, why should we lucky ones whose parents came here a few centuries or a few decades ago not allow the same courtesy and opportunities to people who come here today? My great-great grandparents on the one side did not have to provide documents, which was just as well as they had none. Although there are stories of bribes paid to men at Ellis Island.
My great-great-great grandparents on the other side came to fight as mercenaries w/G Washington and were pd in land in PA. Phters in our family fought in the Civil War and dies in Andersonville. My family was paid in land in Michigan. My husband’s mother arrived from Slovakia on the Berengaria just before WWII broke out in Europe. There were three of them, not one spoke a word of English and the oldest was 13.
What makes an immigrant to America illegal? Any of us who are not children of the First Peoples can all be called illegal immigrants, don’t you think?
Yea for you for this post! Can hardly wait to get back from meetings to read all the responses. But yea for you, Scarecrow for bringing this to us!
GrandmaJ @ 111
GrandmaJ, sorry. That’s the bad part about using strong invective, it comes out sounding nasty to innocent bystanders. It wasn’t directed at you. (My apologies) It was directed at those who support gulagging immigrants. & expressing my frustration. I can’t even get my congresscritters to respond on this.
Scarecrow,
It is too bad that you did not fully research
your post concerning the raid on the New Bedford sweatshop. State officials were briefed, starting in December, about ICE’s plans and were kept abreast of developments over the following months, including face-to-face meetings!
The Boston Globe columnist,the very liberal Eileen McNamara, with whom I rarely agree with, has an outstanding column in todays Globe
exposing the officials of the Deval Patrick administration as liars and frauds. It is available on-line.
This isn’t necessarily a characteristic of the junta, these officious Vogons in the DHS highlight by this latest action, so much as an attribute of leviathan that is the federal government. States have less and less autonomy with each passing administration in DC and less and less say over what the feds do to their citizens or guests.
I just bet the privately run detention centers get more income the more the feds snatch people to fill them with.
John from Boston @ 155
I’ll check it out and add an update with the link so folks can judge for themselves. Thanks for the heads up.