Tucker Carlson: I thought you were going to be funny. Come on!
Jon Stewart: No, no. I'm not going to be your monkey.
("Crossfire", Oct. 15, 2004)
Do you guys remember this moment on CNN's "Crossfire" a couple of years ago? You know that Tucker Carlson and Paul Begala do. That was the day that a talk show host from a fake news show on a comedy network came on their supposedly erudite and intelligent show and inflicted mortal wounds on both men's careers (although Tucker's is still on life support, apparently) and drove a harpoon so deeply into "Crossfire" itself that the show was gone within eight weeks. Ipso facto. Kaput.
I was watching live that day, which is funny because I never watched "Crossfire", but I remember sitting there and thinking, "Is this really happening? This is almost too good to be true!"
I remember thinking, "Look how simple this is. Now, why don't more people go on these ridiculous shows and speak their mind? Why doesn't any Democrat who goes on Pox News take exactly this approach?"
Now, two years later, the media and political ecosystems are going through a major tectonic shift. Right Wing Hate isn't quite the blue-chip stock it used to be, and it looks like some folks are finally wising up to the toxicity of Fox.
Normally, I wouldn't do this, but I'm going to send you over to The Politico. No, no, it's okay. It's a column by My Main Man Matt Stoller about why the Dems were right to bail out of that Fox-sponsored goat-fuck, er, debate. And there's nary a Pool Boy in sight.
To wit:
Over the past three weeks or so, the progressive movement – bloggers, Moveon.org, grassroots activists, filmmakers – pressured the Nevada Democratic Party to drop Fox News as the host of a presidential debate in August. In pursuing this short campaign, we made two basic arguments that were eventually accepted by party leaders.
First, we argued that Fox News is not a news channel, but a propaganda outlet that regularly distorts, spins, and falsifies information. Second, Fox News is heavily influenced or even controlled by the Republican Party itself. As such, we believe that Fox News on the whole functions as a surrogate operation for the GOP. Treating Fox as a legitimate news channel extends the Republican Party’s ability to swift-boat and discredit our candidates. In other words, Fox News is a direct pipeline of misinformation from the GOP leadership into the traditional press.
And Pox News does NOT WANT TO HEAR THAT. Oh, no. They're about to bust a gut over there. From Think Progress:
Tonight, Bill O’Reilly attacked the “radical movement” that opposed the Nevada Democratic Party’s debate with Fox News. O’Reilly said that MoveOn, “the Daily Kos or whatever that stupid thing is,” and others “use propaganda techniques perfected by Dr. Joseph Goebbels, the Nazi minister of information. They lie, distort, defame, all the time.” Progressive activists attack Fox News because “we report on them accurately,” O’Reilly said.
No, dickhead. We don't want anything to do with Fox because you are (in the words of Mr. Dickens) "vile and slanderous calumniators". And trust me. We're not the Nazis here. If you're going to invoke Godwin's Law, Mr. O'Reilly, you should bear in mind that Hitler was NOT an out-of-control liberal, no matter what Ann Coulter says.
But, back to Mr. Stoller:
Falsifying information that is favorable to Republicans and problematic for Democrats is a regular tactic of Fox News. Specific examples are breathtakingly dishonest, including the Obama Madrassa smear, Carl Cameron's false claims that John Kerry referred to himself as a “metrosexual” and “news anchor” Brit Hume repeating the false canard that the public does not trust the Democratic Party on national defense.
Yes, but people who watch it know that it's biased, right?
Well, no.
But it's the sweep of the disinformation campaign that suggests a genuine pattern of propagandistic manipulation of the public. The Program on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland conducted a study in October 2003 of public knowledge and attitudes about current events, focusing on media consumption habits. The study examined three generic misconceptions about the march to war in Iraq – alleged WMDs, purported Iraqi involvement in 9/11, and supported international support for a U.S. invasion of Iraq. While three-fifths of Americans held at least one of these misconceptions at the time, speaking to the poor quality of American punditry, Fox News viewers stood out – their viewers were "three times more likely than the next nearest network to hold all three misperceptions."
More than 80 percent of Fox News viewers had a basic factual misconception about the war in Iraq, which were coincidentally used by the Bush administration to justify their policies at the time.
This should not be a surprise, as the leadership of Fox News is heavily tied into the Republican Party apparatus.
Fox News hurts America. It's actively making people dumber and more susceptible to governmental manipulation.
Falsification of information is bad enough for an outlet channel that calls itself a news organization, but the overt ties to the Republican Party are deeply disturbing for our democracy as a whole. This is not an ideological argument about diversity – Fox News is not really a conservative news channel, it is a Republican propaganda and surrogate operation, as Roger Ailes and Rupert Murdoch seem to have baked into their business model a wholesale allegiance to the Republican Party.
Can I just get everyone to shout that together real loud one time?
FOX NEWS IS NOT NEWS!
Okay? Democrats, are you listening? Fox News is nothing but a propaganda mill. Any and all stories and commentaries on Fox News end the same way, i.e., Republicans are good and Democrats are bad. Period. They barely even play at a pretense of objectivity.
Any attempt by Democrats to make nice with Fox is doomed from the outset. The Nevada debate was a set-up, an ambush. Nevada Democrats did the right thing by telling Fox where they could stick it. We need more of this, please. And we, the netroots, need to pound this into the heads of any Democrats who will listen:
Fox News is determined to destroy you. In their ideological casino, all the games are fixed and the house always wins. Unless you're Joe Lieberman, Fox is going to find a way to discredit, drown out, and humiliate you. It is their sole purpose in the world. Nothing that they say will ever, ever truly be "fair and balanced".
But this is exactly where we want the conversation going right now. We want people to be actively questioning Pox's credibility. And as for Fox, we just want you to know that we're not your monkeys anymore. We know what you're doing and we've known for years. When the Dems dropped their plans for the debate, Matt Drudge immediately proclaimed it "WAR!".
Well, for once Mattress Drudge may have gotten something right. Yes, it is a war. And the Free Media are the guerrilla troops. We may never be able to break down and dismantle the Reich Wing's message machine, but we can sure stop dutifully wandering into their traps and snares. And maybe, just maybe set a few traps of our own.
Give em hell, Matt Stoller! That's the fucking spirit! Yeeeeeeeeaahh!!
Never defend.
Never explain.
ATTAAAAAAAAAACK!!!
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TRex! Y’all jus keep gettin bettarh an bettarh.
TRex—
Great stuff.
I remember watching that Crossfire it was stunning. Reality invaded tv.
Jon is going after the dems on the war bill. They deserve it!
Trex!
You ain’t monkeying around tonight!?!!
Woohoo, TRex. Tox News is NOT news.
TRex, I love you. You’re the best!!
TRex !!
hello.
I love me some Late Nite FDL, and TRex is the reason why.
The Heavy Hitters - Valley Girl, egregious, and RevDeb! I am with Exalted Company!
I am not worthy! I am not worthy!
Evenin’, gang! How is everyone?
OT - but somewhat relevant to the media discussion.
I’m continuing to lobby for an FDL’er to stand in the crowd outside the Today Show one morning, holding a sign that says clearly and legibly in large lettering:
Dick Cheney controls Tim Russert
Jon Stewart:
“Cheney has been wrong about EVERYTHING.”
“The only thing I would trust Cheney for is if I had a dead hooker in my hotel room.”
“Just f***in’ cover up the frown.”
So far so good with the new management at Air America Radio.
AZ Matt @ 8
Stop it! IIRC, this is my first 1/ 0 evah!
Mauimom @ 12
Hey, hey, hey — a little respect for your pals in PDT, please — don’t be a spoiler! Still have three hours to wait out here….
TRex @ 10
Getting more anxious about my upcoming job interview. But enough about me; let’s talk about you. Do you have any idea how much I despise Fox News?
TRex !!!!
hi late night kidz, how y’all doin’ ?!?!?
I gotta chuckle on the last thread when I saw yet another mention of Rep. overtures to Toensing to appear before Waxman comm.
the link was from The Politico and I chuckled imagining some very clumsy white boyz high fivin’ over such an exclusive - oh yeah pool boy, you and da homies got it goin’ on !;)
EvilDrPuma @ 16
You can’t possibly hate them more than I do.
EvilDrPuma @ 15
Very funny- the actress joke.
EDP- is there anything I can do to help you on the interview anxiety?
Stoller has been so consistently good that I did a double take when he equivocated on the mess of a war bill that the dems are weaseling through. I don’t understand where Matt is coming from.
But on Pox Noise, he and TRex have hit it on the head with a hammer.
What if up with the toobz? Problems anyone?
WTF? lolo
happy birthday Dr Evil Puma !
lolo,
there was an earlier problem that kept some of the Firedogs out for up to two hours - Christy said it had been fixed
lolo @ 21
We’ve had some weirdness today. Restart your computer and then clear your browser cache and cookies and try again. That’s what worked for me.
TRex - there just aren’t adequate words to do justice to your writerly gifts/genius. And indeedy, Tox News is NOT news.
BTW - you have mail. :~)
And Morris - left you a EPU note downstairs.
Every Democrat and Progressive needs to tell these asshats “Stop it, you’re hurting America”. So simple and yet so effective.
I once had a chance on national TV, Fox News in fact, and messed up and didn’t take it, but the topic ostensibly was something different, andn anyway, they talk over you.
Fox News Loves Right Wing Porn Stars!! That is the headline to whack them with.
lots of tube problems today thats why just in case i wished drEP a happy b-day one day early.
EvilDrPuma @ 16
Good luck on that! I hope you like them as well as they will like you.
Air America has offered to host a Republican debate story courtesy of RAW
Think the Repubs will agree to that free coverage?
Tomorrow: Pi & Puma!
You ever start playing Solitaire, and lose… and play again, and lose… and after a while, you don’t want to play anymore, but goddammit, it’s mathematically impossible for anybody to be losing this much… I… HAVE… TO… WIN… A… $@%#^#@… GAME!!!!!
And then, finally, you win… and you don’t ever have to play — ever again?
That’s how I felt when I was watching Jon Stewart on Crossfire. I thought, “Finally! I never have to watch this show ever again!”
And then it was gone forever. What a catharsis.
Valley Girl @ 19
Actually, I may be better off than I think I am–I’ve just had a bad evening anyway, and the interview is a place for the stress to go. GoodMrsPuma turns out to have been keeping mum on her past life as a job interview coach, too. My only question right now is, how the hell am I going to wait seven more days to do this thing?
Send Slick Willie back for an encore ala Chris Wallace.
proudprogressive @ 22
I’m impressed that you bothered to keep track. Thank you.
Sorry, I forgot. I was just laughing so hard and wanted to share.
Fox News Loves the Political Porn of the Bushies!
Whack them with that too!
Evening TRex, disciples.
So that’s what happened to Paul Begala.
I love the earlier description of Fuck Snews as a 24 hr infomercial. So appropriate.
MS @ 30
Maybe Sam Seder could moderate?
JoyB @ 29
Thanks. Maybe that’s my problem…I’m letting myself take this too seriously.
MS @ 30
In our dreams!
I love the attitude of the new management. Now if they can get the stream to stop dropping out, re-connect with iTunes, and start moving back into the cities they lost, I will believe that AAR 2.0 has it together. So far they have yet to adapt the web site to daylight savings time.
Great post, TRex.
Larry Johnson was all over Fox last Sunday w/some stunning screen grabs:
http://noquarter.typepad.com/m.....razy_.html
And EPU’d from last thread- Larry comes up w/a lovely new nickname for Mrs. Greenspan after reading Jane’s piece earlier today:
http://noquarter.typepad.com/m.....chell.html
What a news week it is ! Each day, a hearing , a presser. One would think the house of cards can hold up for only so much longer. And josh Marshall on KO.
Now a bit OT , but how about this stock market stuff, end of the empire anyone?
Dover Bitch @ 32
EW! Open a window!
Who catharted in here?
I have had major problems in So. CA, since the ROVESPUTIN thread. I mean major and I couldnt log on to FDL with by crackberry???? No latenight TREX last night nothing all day WHAH! (temper tantrum over) nice to be home
proudprogressive @ 43
Don’t know about empire but it sure looks like its the end of the home mortgage folks.
EvilDrPuma @ 32
Just focus on your work. So, you can say, oh, I was just thinking about thus and so.
And, also, my academic advice, make sure you have googled to know all about the people who will be interviewing you. If you can turn the conversation back to them… oh, I was very interested in your work on dah de dah. Everyone one loves to talk about themselves, even the Brits.
proudprogressive @ 43
It’s like Jane said, “Accountability is the new black and every day is Fitzmas!”
TRex
I never or hardly ever watched Crossfire either but tuned in that day I think because someone on a blog somewhere put out the alert to tune in as Jon was doing the take down. I was home at the time so turned the set on and it was glorious!
Glad to have that UTube link so I can download it onto my iPod for posterity. Thanks
proudprogressive @ 43
Josh on KO, what did he say? Inquiring Minds want to know?
Don’t know about empire but it sure looks like its the end of the home mortgage folks.
F*ck! My little cottage by the creek in the redwoods being for sale and all. Dayam, dayam, double dayam, drat!
TRex @ 44
I blame Novakula.
DrEvilPuma- and don’t forget to buy a round at the pub. Step right in. Not first, but not last.
Dover Bitch @ 32
I knew that day Crossfire would be gone, and counted the days — not many!! — until it was. Funny how we do not hear much about this extraordinary contribution of Jon Stewart’s to the commonweal. Just as Stephen Colbert’s speech almost a year ago has sunk beneath the waves.
In a just society, Stewart would receive a Medal of Freedom and Paul Bremer would be in jail.
I thought of a fun game to play. Who’s in?
Ok it goes like this. It’s called ‘Who would have thought?’. It’s actually a way to focus on good things as well as bad.
I’ll start.
Who would have thought that there would actually be indictments in the Plame affair?
Double bonus here, as there were indictments and convictions.
Raucous fun, eh?
So, who would have thought that…..?
It is interesting that the Fox News defenders of so called free speech are the first ones to cheer the physical attacks on the media that have occurred.
One need only witness Anthrax Annie C’s stated desire to have the NY Times building hit by a truck bomb.
They defend their right to their spin, they defend no one elses right.
-GSD
Valley Girl @ 47
I downloaded everything I could get on the senior research associate I’d be working with, which turned out to include some fairly detailed information on recent work that will certainly relate to the current grant. I don’t know exactly who else will be involved other than (presumably) the director/principal investigator, and he has much less Web presence. His specialties tell me, though, that his role comes mainly through the British seniority system; I don’t anticipate that he will be an active PI.
Who would have thought that Jane would be 2007’s Queen of All Media?
Okay, that one doesn’t count, because actually, several of us thought she would.
Valley Girl @ 53
Now that’s good advice!
I’ve never seen this clip before. It’ just too divinely inspired, that their standard routine riposte is so totally unable to penetrate the armor of “I’m on Comedy Central, you’re on CNN.” First attack “You’re not serious enough.”, Then “You’re not funny enough.”.
WHy can’t our politicians just lay it down on the line like that? You’re hurting America.
Cheney committed espionage. You’re stealing money from wounded veterans. You broke the Army. You broke the Constitution. We can’t trust you with the good china anymore.
balrog- here’s a good focus. Who would have thought that TRex would have become Mr. Late Nite, back when he first introduced his trexing idea to FDL? (no aspersions cast on TRex, but I just didn’t see what he would become, at that time.)
stratocruiser @ 60
DAMMIT, WE CAN’T HAVE NICE THINGS!
Suzanne @ 51
Ah contraire Miss Suzanne - your precious cottage is too exceptional not to be snapped up as a weekender paradise for any number of those rich boys in Silicon Valley. ;~)
Trex says…
Part of the problem is that half these people are looking for work and appearances are nothing more than auditions for other networks. I was watching helplessly today on Tucker as Bill Press was feebly defending Democrats decision to dump FOX, but then coming out and admitting he is a whore that will talk to anybody, including FOX. Frustrating.
Colbert:
“Shock in Washington where the Atty General fired 8 US Attys and none of them were named Patrick Fitzgerald.”
TSF,
Colbert showed that the Emperor was stark naked! That he nothing on but his birthday suit! He was laughed at! And the Repubs lost in 2006 and now we are going to get some back from the fool! Hooray for Colbert and netroots!
TRex @ 58
Excellent example. Jane’s impact is beyond belief (with a little help from her friends). Now she is the toast of blogosphere (and her little dogs, too).
Who would have thought that George Allen would have
macaca’ed himselfended his chances at a WH run?My cable bill recently increased — again. This time I suspect it is because FOX is demanding more royalties. Does anyone know if that is true, and if so, would a campaign aimed at Comcast and others providers to make them part of a separate variety package make sense. To see MSNBC I have to get FNC.
Who would have thought that the dems would win so big in 2006 and even take the Senate, and then roll over on Iraq?
ditto Suzanne that place of yours is special, it will be snapped up. There are still some rich folks out there.
Valley Girl @ 61
I’m a convert. T has grown hugeously as a writer and a snark-purveyor, and has turned Late-Nite into a valuable alternative place to rap. Cheers, and who’d a thunk-it?
Air America offers to host Republican presidential debates.
Ah well. It was already posted. Slow fingers.
Pectopah @ 69
Perhaps we should all send signals to Comcast by setting the cable boxes to block Pox altogether. If we did it virally and MoveOn jumped on board, it might send a message.
No record of “Crossfire” history is complete without this gem.
Frank Zappa makes Novackula eat yellow snow…
EvilDrPuma @ 56
Are you in email correspondence with the senior research associate? You could say, I have researched your work, and it is most interesting blah, blah. If there’s anyone else I will be meeting with, I’d like to know about them too. etc. take this free advice for what it’s worth.
And, do you know where you will be staying? And, you might get yourself prepared to talk about Blair.
RevDeb @ 74
Can we do that?
LoudounLib @ 68
Possibly my favorite Schadenfraude moment of the year. Along with Santorum and Burns. I didn’t allow myself to think it possible, but it happened.
Thanks for your kind words on the cottage. Unfortunately, since it is a stock coop, it requires a cash buyer as there is no ability to have traditional financing.
When youj see the LIVE banner wave at Fox, read it backwards.
Who would have thought Don Rumsfeld would ever leave the Pentagon?
TeddySanFran @ 81
Ding.
bonkers @ 75
This one kills me every time.
Who would have thought a woman would be Speaker of the House in my lifetime?
TeddySanFran @ 81
Last I heard he was still there. No?
TeddySanFran @ 81
Has he left yet? Last I heard, he had a staff of seven helping him “transition.”
EDIT: Ha, ha, RevDeb.
LoudounLib @ 68
And that, my friends, is a blessing from the angels.
Every time I see Colbert on TV I keep thinking: “They haven’t come for him yet?!”
ATTACK! ATTTTTAAAAACK! ATTTAAAAAACCCCKKKK!
RevDeb @ 85
Maybe, but I bet he’s not throwing his weight around and bullying folk. That would leak.
Allen would be the GOP Presidential front-runner were it not for S.R.(”I am Macaca”) Sidarth, you know.
TeddySanFran @ 84
Another blessing.
You can watch the Josh KO segment here:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c.....013016.php
TeddySanFran @ 90
S.R. Sidarth is a great American!
EDP- and while you’re there, you should go have a drink at the Eagle. It is within walking distance, and a very famous place.
The Eagle
Here’s a third argument for you, TRex — it’s called a free market.
If Fox wants to make their money shilling for the right, twisting and spinning more than a Chubby Checker record, they are more than within their rights to do it.
And if some folks in NV don’t want to let Fox make money on their debate, they are more than within their rights, too.
It’s called a free market. Fox may have a monopoly on right wing spin, but they don’t own the marketplace of ideas. In fact, I often wonder whether they even know where that marketplace is.
Stick it to them in the wallet — just like Ann Coulter’s advertisers are doing to her.
(How are those letters coming, everyone?)
Breaking News:
Bob Shrum advises Charlie Brown to kick the football that Lucy is holding.
-GSD
Another fingerprint left by turdblossom on the USAgate.
So who goes first? Rove or Abu? Who’s taking bets?
GSD @ 96
Oh, DAMMIT!!
I meant to include the Charlie Brown/Lucy/Football metaphor in this post and then clean forgot all about it.
Sigh.
Did spiderpaws ever catch a rat last night ? And did it look like Abu Gonzo..aka mr torturers R US.
RevDeb @ 97
Abu this Friday.
Rove, who knows? We’re still somewhere between the poisoning and shooting of Rovesputin. He’s prolly got some dirty tricks in him, yet.
RevDeb @ 97
Maybe they’ll both go together in the Men’s Pair’s competition.
Lindy @ 77
Sure, but you are still paying for a channel you have blocked. I do not want to subsidize propaganda. It may keep my kids from seeing it, but I want it off the menu completely. Plus, I am not sure Comcast would see that it is blocked, since it is done by the box.
Who would have known that Pete Domenici would be the Conrad Burns of 2008.
-GSD
RevDeb @ 97
Uh, Rev. Deb, my dough is on whoever you choose though Abu seems a safe bet.
WaPoO Chatz tomorrow:
Stuart M. Gerson, acting Attorney General at the start of Bill Clinton’s administration, at 10am Eastern, to chat about the USAttorney firings.
Money & Politics Reporter John Solomon at 11am Eastern.
Yay! Dan Froomkin at 1pm Eastern.
Questions accepted anytime….
G’night firepups :-)
Trex, a pertinent observation here,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....mp;search=
and here both Frank Zappa on Crossfire, one with liver lips novak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....mp;search=
The smartest commentary? we need help in America and Jon says more with those words than these fucks like tucker say in a year of evil frivolity that does no one a whit of good
And this from Bill Moyers..over an hour but chilling in the face of todays hubris and well worth watching.
http://video.google.com/videop.....5137118430
h/t Glen Greenwald
Who would have thought that Richardson would be virtually demanding the state legislature give him a medical marijuana bill. and how sweet it is to see leather heather and senile pete exposed for the corrupt bitchez they are.