It’s no secret Rudy Giuliani is basing his campaign for president on the public’s image of him as Mr. 9-11 Hero. People outside New York know little of the skeletons in his personal closet, which aren’t exactly compatible with a ticket that foghorns family values as the core of its platform.
More important, most people outside New York also don’t know about his real record after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. Most people that is, except for the Fire Fighters (IAFF) union.
The union this week is holding a legislative conference here in Washington, D.C., with more than 900 members from across the country visiting Capitol Hill to talk with their lawmakers. Tomorrow, the IAFF holds a presidential debate with 10 candidates, both Republican and Democrat. But even though the Fire Fighters invited him, Rudy won’t be there.
See, Rudy did bad by the Fire Fighters. And it’s not in his interest that such information gets out.
After the terrorist planes hit the World Trade Center towers, firefighters were among the first to respond—and 344 of them lost their lives trying to help those stranded in the towers. (Many union members were among the victims, and many more were part of the crucial first response and months-long follow up in New York City and at the Pentagon. More here.)
So what did Giuliani do? In early November 2001, after all his photo ops on national TV were played out, he unilaterally decided to scale back firefighter operations at the site and turn the recovery into what the union calls a "scoop and dump" operation without any input from the two New York local unions, fire commanders, staff chiefs or families of the deceased. The new policy angered and outraged family members and thousands of New York firefighters.
In a March 9, 2007, letter to affiliate unions explaining the situation, Fire Fighters President Harold Schaitberger writes:
Those on the pile at Ground Zero believed they had just found a spot in the rubble where they would find countless more who could be given proper burial. Nevertheless, Giuliani, with the full support of his Fire Commissioner Thomas Von Essen, decided on Nov. 2, 2001, to sharply reduce the number of those who could search for remains at any one time. There had been as many as 300 fire fighters at a time involved in search and recovery, but Giuliani cut that number to no more than 25 who could be there at once.
Mayor Giuliani’s actions meant that fire fighters and citizens who perished would either remain buried at Ground Zero forever, with no closure for families, or be removed like so much garbage and deposited at the Fresh Kills Landfill. [Underline and bold face in original.]
Here’s what happened next, according to the IAFF:
By early November, the UFA, the UFOA [IAFF’s two New York affiliates] and the IAFF, with the full support of the grieving families, mounted a campaign to reverse the city's ill-conceived decision. A rally of more than 1,000 UFA and UFOA members, accompanied by widows, drew the attention of the public in New York and across the nation to the injustice, despite a decision made at the highest levels of city government to subvert the event by arresting fire fighters on trumped up charges that have since been dropped. Mayor Giuliani knew that a peaceful demonstration by fire fighters would make him look bad, so he gave the order to break up the march.
So in November 2001, several firefighters were arrested at Ground Zero, the place where these same men and women who, only weeks before had rushed into the nation’s worst inferno. They were charged with criminal trespass.
The bottom line is this: Respect. As Nancy Scola points out at MyDD, when she talked with workers at Resurrection Health Care who are seeking to form a union, the issue of wages wasn’t the biggest factor in their decision to seek a voice at work through unionizing. Patient care was first. Next? Respect at the workplace.
Saying Giuliani and the fire commissioner were robbing the families of fallen fire fighters and other Sept. 11 victims of their dignity, Schaitberger, at the time, called the move:
Absolutely unacceptable.
Rudy really needs this to go away. So over the past few days, a group has emerged calling itself “Fire Fighters for Rudy.” And through the great work over at TPM Cafe, the muckrakers there found out that the executive director of the group, Tim Brown, is none other than an aide to Giuliani. Writes Greg Sargent at TPM Cafe:
…when we asked Brown if he was the executive director of Firefighters for Rudy, he said that he was. When we asked if he was an aide on the campaign, he paused for awhile before saying, "yeah." When we asked him what his title on the campaign was, he said—you guessed it—"executive director of Firefighters for Rudy.”
So we then posed the question of how many members it has. At that point, he said he was going to have "other folks" get back to us.
Aaarrrrghhhh! Frustration. If the executive director of this group doesn't know how many members it has, then who does?
If Giuliani’s attempt at deception and obfuscation weren’t so outrageous, it would be pathetic.
But the sacrifice of the fire fighters and other first-responders didn’t end Sept. 11, 2001.
Last year, a study by the New York City Fire Department (FDNY) showed firefighters suffered a significant decline in their lung capacity after working at Ground Zero. In fact, the study found more than 400 chemicals in the toxic World Trade Center air—although then-Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) Administrator Christine Todd Whitman assured the public the site was safe in the weeks following 9-11. A year later, it was revealed that just days after the Sept. 11 tragedy, the Bush administration pressured the EPA to tone down reports about the potential health hazards resulting from the buildings’ collapse.
Firefighters aren’t the only workers who need to take a close look at Rudy.
In April 2001, Giuliani vetoed a strong anti-sweatshop bill guaranteeing city workers would not wear uniforms made in sweatshops. Fortunately, with the backing of the New York union movement and its community allies, the New York City Council voted April 25 to override Giuliani's veto. In his tenure as mayor, he cut programs benefiting the homeless, backed for-profit management of public schools despite the shaky record of Edison Schools Inc., which sought the deal and sat on a budget surplus while city employees went two years without a raise.
Schaitberger promises the union will delve more into the relationship between the Fire Fighters and Giuliani, both good and bad aspects.
If there’s more to the story, we want to hear it.
(We’ll be live-blogging the presidential debate at AFL-CIO Now on Wednesday. Stop by if you get a chance.)
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TULA, welcome.
Christy Whitman as EPA head is also responsible for claiming the air was safe.
Tula, good post, thanks.
Justice!
He let a whole lot of people down on that day.
He’s not at all “America’s Mayor”.
Thanks, Tula, for shining the spotlight on this.
Whitman once had some promise and yet she sold her soul to bushco.
blergh.
Delete cookies on IE, maybe that will help.
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Fire Fighters for Hosing Down Rudi! Flush him down the gutter.
Can anyone explain how the Democratic Leadership Council and “Third Way” philosophy does not work against labor?
And Mike Chertoff can go with Rudi! Where is $$’s for communication gear and other necessary first responders materials?
Tula, thank you. As an IAFF member myself, it was gratifying to read Harold Schaitberger’s letter, and to have it highlighted here on FDL is fantastic!
The creepiest Giuliani moment came long before his stiffing the firefighters. The stomach still gets queasy remembering his inaugural address as mayor of NYC, I think January ‘93, when his eight-year-old son stood beside him on the podium mimmicing the father’s public address, hitting dad’s every self-serious pose with furrowed brow and jabbing finger.
At the time, I could only wonder how many times the son stood before the mirror observing the old man’s rehearsal. One can only wonder what narcissism led the father to permit the son’s strange accompaniment.
egregious @ 6
eg- I don’t think any of this will help, alas. I went through all of this on the pastordan thread. If people delete their cookies, they will have to type in user name again, and that might confuse things further.
Misinfomed @ 11
well, then you’d be happy to know that andrew has grown up into a nonspeaking relationship with his dad, over the way he treated his mother, donna hanover.
So, can anyone tell me why we can’t have our own Swiftboat campaign? Giulaini can be taken out pretty quickly, I think, with an organized, targeted campaign ala GOP. If they can do it so effectively, why can’t we?
Rudolph has made millions off of 9/11 and has not made a single public service contribution since then. He has spent the years since 9/11 making money and working on his political career. Since Shrub took the stuffing out of his flight suit, Amerika’$ mayor is the last remaining gooper fantasy
I am having the same problems with the site that have been mentioned earlier — something is definitely wrong.
Good luck moderators and others discovering the problem.
lectric lady @ 14
We don’t need a “Swiftboat” campaign, which was based on lies. We just need to tell the truth.
Re comment 14~
Instead of calling it a ‘Swiftboat’ campaign, how about calling it a ‘Twin Tower’ campaign?
I lived on LI when Rudi was mayor of NYC. I met him a couple of times because of my work. He’s a foul-tempered womanizer who doesn’t appear to like women (except as sexual partners), black or brown people, or poor people. He was extremely dictatorial while I lived there. He would be even worse than Bush as President.
As he demonstrated in his response to first responders, he has not an ounce of sympathy for other human beings.
JMHO
How is Fox treating Rudi?
Imagine. Rudy v. Hillary in 2008.
lectric lady @ 18
The Twin Towers of Truth!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 21
rather not
katherine graham cracker @ 15 is right.
All Rudy sees as the lessons of 9/11 is a chance for personal profit. True, there are more repulsive candidates, I just can’t think of any right now.
Rudy was “Twin Towered”
“Firefighters for Rudy” …yeah right. I can’t wait to see what damage control schemes his campaign comes up with next:
Divorcees for Rudy?
African Immigrants for Rudy?
Transvestites for Rudy?
Everyone in NYC knows this guy is a headline chasing thug. Let’s make sure the rest of America gets the message.
Giuliani Is Tsouris @ 26
Transvestites for Rudy has a chance.
Welcome Back Tula,
okay kidz, I was just shut out for about a half hour – but am now back – using the My Yahoo link to FDL – don’t know whether it’s Yahoo or the servers let me back in
Giuliani Is Tsouris at 6:28 pm
Yes. “Thug” is the perfect word to describe Rudi.
Sorry, a bit OT but:
This thing is fixin’ to be a circus if Repubs think Victoria Toensing qualifies as the anti-Plame.
OT- For those of us who were pissed off when the Shumer/Feinstein presser on the USA firings was cut short by CNN this a.m., Crooks & Liars has a vid of it now up:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/…..-gonzales/
Tula — wonderful post. Thank you so much for bringing this to FDL.
Guess Rudi won’t be having Kerik around, eh?
Link
Elliott @ 23
I sympathize. ;0)
there were actually management arguments the city could have made on behalf of cutting back the number of firefighters permitted on the ground zero site — staffing issues, mainly, and secondary overtime — but of course giuliani didn’t care to make those arguments well. like the way he handled the rest of his administration, he simply wanted action by fiat. the irony is that what won giuliani praise that day and afterward were the elements of full disclosure and give-and-take that he had spent his two terms avoiding and refuting.
the truly ugly prospect of giuliani’s presidential run is that he is, by making it, forcing a more clear-eyed appraisal of all the mistakes that happened on sept. 11 and in the months that followed. this at a time when those affected by the events have made something like peace with how things played out.
to foist that kind of review — and carping and sniping and pissing matches that will follow — on the country is the height of me-first uncaringness that only a true sociopath embraces. i truly shudder at the idea of rudy as prez, particularly one whose predecessor showed just how far one could ignore the laws of the land.
T-Rex – you’ve got mail.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 21
na ga hapn.
The Firefighters should swiftboat Rudy.
Whatever it takes, this nation can not take another reactionary right wing 4-8 years.
Marie Roget @ 31
I could not believe they had done that! Shumer was just about to lay out all the times Abu had lied before Congress and they cut away! Amazing!
Sara had a great post on Rudy and his connection to the pedophile priest scandal over at The Next Hurrah.
Vis a vis Kerik, would somebody tell me if anyone ever attempted to locate the “nanny” who supposedly moved to Mexico, and whose salary irregularities were supposed to have been the primary factor in his decision to withdraw as DHS chief. Sounds to me, once the Judith Regan angle exploded, that it’s a fair assumption that the “nanny” never existed. Seems to me like Rudy’s going to have to reassure me that she exists and has a name, if I’m expected to pretend that his relationship with Kerik was normal and above board.
Gang — I think we may have identified the server hiccup. So sorry for any inconvenience.
Last Night I posted a piece on The Next Hurrah regarding Rudy’s connections with a long time friend, Alan Placa, who was a Monsignor in the Rockville Center Diocese on Long Island, and who is involved in at least three ways in the Pedophile Priest scandals. Placa is currently suspended and defrocked, but in 2003, Rudy hired him as a partner in his consulting firm, even though there had been extensive coverage of the Pedophile concerns in the NYTimes and Newsday. There is also an extensive Grand Jury Report regarding Placa’s role in all this.
What I suggest is simply that people google Alan Placa Rudy Giuliani, and read the several hundred citations that emerge. Newspaper articles that have probably long since disappeared can be found at the Bishops Accountability site — they are archiving everything and putting it on line.
This is really a question of the kind of people Giuliani tends to hire or appoint to responsible positions.
Christy Hardin Smith @
42
Thank you, thank you. I was going through withdrawal symptoms. Couldn’t post, couldn’t read on Safari just as others said.
dmg @ 37
Are you telling me that Rudy and or Hillary will not be nominated? This is a serious question?
Marie Roget @ 31
thanks!
Sara @ 44
Time to “Twin Tower” Giuliani
I will pound the DLC over and over again.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 46
certainly one of those two is not going to be his/her party’s nominee, and my gut hunch is that there’s a decent chance neither one will.
Sara @ 43
Excellent post. I read it last night and it brought back a lot of the outrage I was feeling in Boston at the time. Abuse of power all around. Shameful.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 43
Did the server get the Peanut’s bug, too?
Hope you’re feeling perkier now.
Ok, I am having a tin-foil hat moment. Did anybody else notice the room Gonzo was in? Ever seen it before? Notice the carpet? My friend noticed it and said what is that with the beams and all? So, we had it on pause and I noticed the rose in the middle and made me think of the Da Vinci Code. I have an illustrated copy and lo and behold I found a picture of the same carpet but this carpet was in the Opus Dei House. So that led to the website and ok, tin-foil hat time!
I don’t know what to suggest for the people having computer problems, but I sure had one earlier today. (I use Firefox.) After downloading the Windows updates and restarting, nothing would work. Then I closed a bunch of programs using task manager and things started working again.
There were programs running, SYSTEM programs, that I’d never seen before.
bellesouth @ 53
I wondered, too.
Curious in Central Texas @
16
don’t know if this will go through, others didn’t
but me too, on cellular SPRINT in central FL
troubles since Pach’s post
I was brought up on blue collarism. My family history is one of union participation. I am disappointed thoroughly in my party’s (Dems) lack of real support for labor.
Elliott @ 55
Whew! Thanks.
Just to be brave, I’m posting before I read all of your comments.
I think Guilliani (or however you spell his name) did the right thing by ending the body part search early on. I don’t understand how somebody could call a found tooth “remains of their loved one”.
It all escapes me.
I have the highest regard for the NYFD, and visited the site last summer with a
total renewed patriotism, but can we get real?
And, I’m a member of CTA/NEA.
Care to spec on who the Demo nominee will be? ;0)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 60
someone patient?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 57
as a union member, i’m disappointed too. though we should understand that the reason pols (at least since world war II) paid attention to unions was as much a reflection of unions’ ability to turn out the the vote and make campaign contributions.
these days, with union representation a fraction of what it was in the 50’s and 60’s, and with free trade (no union protections)accepted as a basic tenet of 21st century political life, the corporations have won. the only thing left for a union-supporting democrat to fight for is better buyout terms for union members.
Me, too. Tin-foil-hat time?
edit – trouble opening threads, that is.
njr @ 61
Is there a way to be more specific?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 60
it’s too early — though of course all the pros say hillary’s got the nomination sewn up. but if there’s anything the netroots have shown over the past four years, it’s that the pros don’t know jack.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 60
ReElect President Gore – Accept No Substitute!
Its the least we can do, don’t ya tink?
Many, many years ago, when living in a semi rural area in Monterey County, I was a volunteer fireman. I didn’t see a lot of action, except for a few brush and forest fires and a car fire or two, but I did get to meet and interact with some real firemen. They are special breed.
A fireman spends a large portion of his day sitting around, cooking and eating, playing cards, reading magazines and polishing chrome. It’s a pretty cushy job. But when that bell rings, you drop that fork, toss the magazine in mid-sentence, throw down the cards no matter what hand you’ve got, jump in your boots, get in that slicker and jump on the truck. Generally you have no idea where you’re going right away, maybe it’s a cat up a tree, or a fire in a garbage can, but maybe it’s a fully engulfed apartment house with 10 people trapped inside or a chemical plant spewing poisonous gasses.
It doesn’t matter. the bell rings and you go. You don’t hesitate, you don’t question, you go. And when you go, there is no assurance that you will return or won’t be painfully injured. It’s a job that will ask you to do routinely what no sane person would ever consider, run into a burning building. It’s the only career where the job description is hero.
Firemen spend lots of time together and risk their lives together. It’s what they do. As a result they develop strong bonds of comradeship and even their families develop strong bonds of community and caring. Firemen’s wives and families tend to all know each other. Firefighters run through generations, fathers to sons, and now even daughters. It was obvious how the WTC tragedy affected the firefighting force in NYC. Every one of them had lost friends and comrades, this was not some distant tragedy for any of the 8,000 NY firefighters, it was in every way a family tragedy.
For Giuliani to prevent these men from searching for the remains of their lost brothers and then to arrest them when they protested was not merely cold, or callous, or heartless. It was depraved.
We have had enough of depraved men in power.
newspaperbrat, you speak for me!
SusanD @
19
This is interesting, SusanD. I remember his speech at the Republican Party convention. He was mean-spirited, small-minded, joyless, and nasty.
Anderson Cooper CNN is giving USAgate the headline treatment.
way off topic –
Mr. DiFi Inc., Richard Blum (NYSE: DFINK) has a conflict of interest as a regent of the University of California. I’m shocked shocked, I tell you:
Morris Sheppard @ 67
Indeed, “we have enough depraved men in power”!
Where were you in Mty County? Am happy to report the good folks in Big Sur just won a battle with the county supervisors who tried to take their ambulance service away.
newspaperbrat @ 66
;0)!
lily @ 39
Rudy doesn’t need to be swiftboated, the firefighters simply need to keep doing what they are doing, Getting the truth out about Rudy. It always makes me choke when I hear the MSM whores call him amerika’s mayor.
Frankly, why don’t Democrats chill about Rudy until he’s the Republican nominee? There’s a lot about him Americans won’t like AT ALL when we let them know; why not wait until the GOP anoints him? It’s looking pretty good for Rudy right now; wouldn’t his nomination be great for John Mama Obama?
Giuliani is despicable, but the GOP seems ready to overlook that. Let’s honor George McGovern’s legacy and let our opposition party nominate their own weakest possible nominee for once, okay?
PS Nice post, Tula, thanks!
TeddySanFran — you speak wisely. . . .
punaise @ 68
And thee for me, dear punaise!
Should have given a h/tip to you for the “accept no substitute!”
Let’s see now. 17 months or so until the general election to select the new prez. Well… We’ve got oodles of time.
I’ll spare you all a link to this, at salon.com:
newspaperbrat @ 77
here, we differ. :~) I use the plural, you, the singular.
“accept no substitutes”
Tula — thanks for sharing. Rudy is the epitome of high-handed and scummy, isn’t he?
Christy Hardin Smith @
43
I am not a Gang — I am a Posse!
Morris S- kind of OT to the main point, but I didn’t even know that so many communities totally depended on volunteer firefighters until I started spending summers in Maine.
neurophius @ 70
Toobin – “Not all of them under the change of the law have to be confirmed by the Senate”
What a f’n tool
TSF– smart you are.
But the firefighters, the police, EMS, hospital employees (docs, nurses, and everybody else), and the coroner’s office staff have a grievance and I do believe that they should be listened to.
newspaperbrat @72
Actually I was in Bug Sur. Remember the Volunteer Ambulance as well. Started back in ‘74, I think. We all took up a collection to buy a second hand ambulance. Unfortunately my wife at the time got to ride in it after a car accident.
BTW I had built a house on the south ridge of Sycamore Canyon, overlooking Pfeiffer Beach.
As a Demo, I really appreciate the contenders for 2008 that the Republicans are putting up. It’s one or two of the so called Democratic ‘front runners’ who concern.
The conflict between the NYPD and the Firefighters is well described in William Langewiesche’s book, “American Ground: Unbuilding the World Trade Center.” The work ran as a serial in Atlantic Monthly, summer of 2002, and then came out as a book. It was quite controversial when published, as he does take some of the “heroics” out of the tale — considering such designation as “hero” as a bit like an addictive drug. But it is a marvelous piece of writing, and I strongly recommend. I think the Atlantic Articles may be available on line.
What it all has to say about Rudy, I think, is that his mode of operation is to nurture various kinds of tribal conflicts in our society and culture, empowering himself by sitting atop them. He really isn’t that much of a problem solver — that is getting a comprehension of conflict, and working to find resolutions. As an example, It had been long known that the Police and Fire could not communicate with each other in emergency status — decisions had to be made to resolve that problem. Rudy never made those decisions, and he never caused them to be made. The result on 9/11 was the Firefighters never got intelligence from the Police that the buildings were about to come down. Rudy never created the kind of joint operations commands necessary for a true emergency, preferring to let the tribes of Cops and Firefighters continue turf battles. Instead, Rudy was allowed to substitute the iconic moment when he led folk on a march uptown, away from the towers — and call that heroic leadership. And then, mind you, run for President on the icon.
What should bother us is that right now polls of the horse race give Rudy a lead over both Obama and Hillary. If you read through the Google stuff on Placa and Guiliani, you’ll see that some right wing bloggers have tried to do something with the story, and have gotten no traction. Rudy is getting strength among the Evangelicals — and they don’t know any of these stories. Seems to me that now is the time to get them into circulation and see if the Values Voters still support, once they can read up on the available information.
Wow, Morris at 67 — well wrought, sir.
LoudounLib @ 10
Great to hear from a fire fighter! Kudos goes to President Schaitberger for writing the letter and making it public.
Valley Girl @ 83
It’s what we used to call community spirit.
punaise @ 80
Like all true Francophiles you are at once gallant and precise! :~)
Has Hill’s peeps been looking at progressive blogs, etc. Why else is the Senator re-introducing the concept of “the vast right wing conspiracy”? Yuk.
TeddySanFran @ 75
I agree with this, BUT we need to get our strategy worked out ahead of time JUST IN CASE! We need to have a Giuliani ‘team’ in place, a Romney ‘team’ in place, a McCain ‘team’ in place, a Newt ‘team’ in place.
This is what the GOP does so effectivly. We need to take a page from their playbook, and not just..well, lets wait and see what they do, and then think about, maybe, trying to think about how to counter them….
We Need To Be Proactive! In and Organized Way! Is the ANYONE who agrees with this?
Tula Connell @ 90
I’m actually a fire dispatcher, full disclosure! But thank you!
I had built a house on the south ridge of Sycamore Canyon, overlooking Pfeiffer Beach.
pfeiffer beach? only one of this continent’s most beautiful vistas.
punaise, that Regent Blum stuff is interesting. I wonder if that war-profiteering and government-contracting family will ever be held to account.
most respected politician in CA she is.
feh.
newspaperbrat, okkiddo, punaise,
Gore is the one. So how do we get him to recognize this?
I concur – regular overnight owling adventures on that ridge – and three cougar sightings – gawgeous!
I’ll put Gore up against any Democratic, and certainly, against any Republican contender.
I remember those protests by the firemen. Their chant was “Let us get our brothers.” It was heartbreaking.
dwwenz @
98
We show him more bushco and support him.
dwwenz @ 98
i think gore knows what’s waiting for him if he runs again — look how the right-wing and msm mocked and dissed him AGAIN after his documentary won an oscar.
he doesn’t want to go through it again, nor should he feel obligated to do so.
unfortunately, i think his time has passed.
maybe, who’s the United States Attorney for that district *g*
dwwenz @ 98
Phone calls, emails, faxes, snail mail, letters to the editor, funds. ;0)
angie @ 102
Yeah.
cbl @ 99
used to drive down from berkeley early saturday mornings and sit in the cave that looked at the hole in the rock, before scrambling all over the hills and coastline.
just driving down the road off pch felt like i was gliding into middle earth.
How many here have seen “An Inconvenient Truth” and found it compelling?
This Brown fellow and his bro evidently are owners of this website which make money off the NYFD:
http://www.thebravest.com/fdny.htm
If Tula is still there, what is the story with these South Carolina firefighters:
http://www.joinrudy2008.com/Ne…..ntID=19942
dmg @ 103
I must disagree. It is precisely because Gore knows what is waiting for him that he should run. He can take it. His family can take it. He is the most qualified. He will bring all uncertain Dems to him.
so, am I the only one who is amazed that anyone is taking RJ seriously. wouldn’t all you have to do is make a nicely-produced You Tube item with montage of the four or five videoed occasions when RJ is in flaming cross-dresser heaven and then show audiences laughing, world audiences, eskimo audiences, black, yellow, brown, white audiences world-wide doubling over laughing at {drum roll] PRESIDENT Rudy. Can people be serious about him??
dmg @ 96
Yeah. And the view to the east was Post’s ridge while the view to the south on the other side of the ridge I was on was of the whole coast halfway to Piedras Blancas. At the south side of the ridge was Wreck Beach, which while not a scenic as Pfeiffer, was private, which is always nice. I still remember clearly standing on the ridge and watching the whales spout as they migrated north after summer, staying just outside the kelp beds as they rounded Pfeiffer Point.
angie @ 108
it’s incredibly compelling, like an excellent lecture by that one college professor that everyone had to see.
Morris Sheppard @ 112
Yeah. And the view to the east was Post’s ridge while the view to the south on the other side of the ridge I was on was of the whole coast halfway to Piedras Blancas. At the south side of the ridge was Wreck Beach, which while not a scenic as Pfeiffer, was private, which is always nice. I still remember clearly standing on the ridge and watching the whales spout as they migrated north after summer, staying just outside the kelp beds as they rounded Pfeiffer Point.
and you left this little bit of heaven for good reasons, i’m sure.
perhaps at the end of a shotgun.
dwwenz @ 106
Just trying to clarify– are you feeling defeated? Was that a yeah or a yay?
Have hope and your shoes on, too– the fight is not over, yet!
dmg @ 113– exactly!
CharlieW @ 111
No. I find it hard to believe myself.
If Gore wants the nomination, it’s his. And I will go toe to toe with anyone, point by point, who says this isn’t the case.
AZ Matt – I sure don’t know what’s up with that union in SC, other than they’re in a red state and they obviously haven’t read up on Rudy all that much. But you can bet he won’t get any support from my local 2068!
angie at 115,
It was a YEAH!
(Sorry for the ambiguity.)
dwwenz, angie—
Zig alert
Oklahoma kiddo @ 117
I’ll join you.
dwwenz @ 110
I must disagree. It is precisely because Gore knows what is waiting for him that he should run. He can take it. His family can take it. He is the most qualified. He will bring all uncertain Dems to him.
it’s cool. we can disagree.
i’ll go one step further — those pundits who say that gore has missed his chance because all the money and campaign help have been promised to other candidates? they’re wrong. gore doesn’t need all that money, or those staffers, because he already has the name recognition and visibility that those things are supposed to buy. i’m not sure what polling data shows, but i’d bet that he gets higher favorable ratings than any declared candidate now does.
i think he is still leaving the door open to something like a draft at the convention. but no, i don’t think he is going to deal with the mind-numbing death march that is the primary season.
LoudounLib @ 116
What did you think of this Brown guy making money off NYFD stuff? Kind of mercenary to me.
Another way to support Gore. Go to your local Demo organization and see if you can persuade them to draft a letter of support for Gore. That’s what I’m doing, anyway.
Pat Leahy brings the snark to PBS NewsHour interview while answering ? on Shumer’s call for Gonzales to step down:
“Every Senator is entitled to say what he wants on this topic. If Pres. Bush believes that Alberto Gonzales represents the best his administration has to offer the American people, by all means keep him on as AG” (paraphrase).
Loved hearing Leahy smack Issa around on the subject, too :)
eg– I have nevah yet busted a margin yet.
could happen though, if everybody is impeached….
:0
Oklahoma kiddo @ 124
Thanks for this idea, OKkiddo. I’ll give it a try.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 124
There’s no one else anywhere near as qualified as Gore. I’ll keep working towards a Gore draft for as long as it takes.
That was the start of my driveway.
They seemed like good reasons at the time. Now I sometimes wonder. No shotguns were involved, just itchy ambitions.
AZ Matt – yeah, it’s kind of mercenary on one hand, but on the other hand it’s the firefighter culture of honoring other fire departments, especially FDNY (and especially FDNY after 9-11). And firefighters are memorabilia hounds and they collect all kinds of stuff. Hopefully Brown is contributing to some memorial fund or another!
They seemed like good reasons at the time. Now I sometimes wonder. No shotguns were involved, just itchy ambitions.
i always used to say at pfeiffer that i’d found the spot i wanted to live in. but i couldn’t make it work. ah well. i ain’t dead yet.
Perhaps if we’d continued looking then we wouldn’t be closing & digging up the West Side Highway today.
WTC search to dig under West Street
Time for me to sign out. Thank you for the hope, the strength, the honesty that everyone here brings to this place. Good night.
cbl @ 104
Kevin Ryan, one of the Abu Eight.
Morris Sheppard @ 86
Ah, Pfeiffer Beach, was there late Sunday morning and not another soul in sight. My son lived in Palo Colorado and plans to return when he completes nursing school in WI at the end of the year. Emile Norman just turned 90 and is still making art. Come visit soon! You’ll be pleased to know Big Sur remains a timeless oasis in the wilderness.
Will Bunch has great commentary on Loser Bob Shrum and then-Senator John Edwards.
Shrum should be banned from the Democratic Party. Is there a way to vote him off the island? There is no way he favors our side. He must be a mole.
Morris Sheppard @ 129
Berkeley. I’m homesick for Berkeley, even though I’m home. Berkeley. So many wonderful memories. Is the fog there tonight? Does anyone recall the driftwood sculptures down on the beach so long ago?
Simon in NYC @ 132
among the many galling legacies of 9/11 is the sense that we can’t seem to do anything right anymore.
as keith olbermann pointed out, it’s been 5 years and we still haven’t built a damn monument. — ground zero is nothing more or less than a construction zone these days.
and remember how in iraq, the least expectation the civilians had were that the americans would at at least bring them electricity? and water? they’re still waiting.
and then katrina — weren’t we going to send in a veritable swat team of help to get the region back on its feet? still waiting.
bush has taken the “I can” right out of American.
What can you do to get Gore to run? Go to http://www.algore.org/ and sign the Draft Gore petition. Information available there, too.
Alicia @ 128
;0)!
oh crap TeddySF, I was just being snarky – what in heaven was there problem with him – not sure that district covered John Doolittle
newspaperbrat @ 135
Now you’re bringing back memories. I’m sure all the old timers in the Sur will know who I am. I loved Emile, he used to walk by my property on his way to the beach several times a week. What a lovely gentle man! You know it was him who convinced Henry Miller to take up watercolors. Also had friends in Palo Colorado, especially the Mudds and the Taylors, but used to hang at Nepenthe in those days and spend a lot of time on Partington at the D’Angulo Ranch and at Henry and Valentine’s.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 137
I know of what you are talking about in the Berkeley tidal flats but haven’t been that way in years. Always thought it was cool.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 137
Yes.
OKKiddo:
I see a back bench of republican hopefuls waiting for the varsity to stumble. And it looks that way. Hagel, Gingrich and Thompson are playing it smart. Especially Gingrich. By staying on the sidelines he avoids the scrutiny that would take him down over a long campaign. The scrutiny has hurt McCain, and is now taking down Rudy. Then down goes Mitt, after a brief period as the frontrunner. Hunter is only running so he can raise money for his legal defense fund, once Carol Lam returns to follow up on his Abramoff connection.
Same with the Dems. I see a slugfest, leading to no clear leader. Then comes Super Tuesday, and no clear winner, but a split decision. When that happens the bench warmers will step in. I think Super Tuesday will have the opposite effect as predicted, and rather than decide the candidates, it will prolong the primaries.
cbl @ 141
I have read elsewhere that Ryan’s firing isn’t getting much attention due to “morale problems” in his office.
In January, was surprised to hear a well-connected Hill insider predict an upcoming Doolittle indictment. He was then shocked when I mentioned that the USAttorney firings might affect this possible indictment (this was in early January when only DiFi was on the USAttorney firing case).
Oklahoma kiddo @ 140
Remember when qualifications actually mattered?
Nut-up Al!
Pectopah @ 145
Thompson is the one who concerns me. Another actor. I also think Clark is playing it smart by staying out now.
The lesson of 2008 may be don’t announce too early.
Mr Blifil @
30
This thing is fixin’ to be a circus if Repubs think Victoria Toensing qualifies as the anti-Plame.
Oh, I think that could be quite a bit of fun.
Toensing: Valerie Plame hadn’t travelled overseas in the five years prior to being “outed”, so she couldn’t have been covert.
Waxman: I see. Can you identify this document for me?
Toensing: It looks like a United States passport.
Waxman: Could you read the name on that passport, please?
Toensing: “Valerie Plame”.
Waxman: I see. Could you turn to the visas section, please? Is that a visa for the nation of Jordan dated 1999?
Toensing: Um…uh…
Waxman: More water, Ms Toensing?
Attaaaaack TRex upstairs
Morris Sheppard – you’ll love this video all about Emile – http://www.kqed.org/arts/truly/page.jsp?id=43
It is quite new and our great friend Angus Whyte helped the producers wrestle control away from Emile – you know how stubborn he can be – and happily the grand ole artist rejoiced when it was screened late last fall. I’ll be sure to let him know we’ve had this conversation.
If you have trouble sourcing the film let me know and I’ll lend you my copy.
TRex upstairs.
Also OT- Larry Johnson read Jane’s piece on Andrea Mitchell & came up w/his own delightful description of Mrs. Greenspan:
http://noquarter.typepad.com/m…..chell.html
Pectopah @ 149
For all their whining about the expense of covering such a long race with such a large field, TradMed is covering the horserace aspect without much attention to issues.
From Anne Korblut’s chat today:
ooohhhh Teddy. Nice one.
TeddySanFran @ 75
Word.
BTW, the Repugs will probably do the same about Hillary. They’ll go easy on her until she’s nominated, then sock it to her. If you want to know whom they’re deathly afraid of, just look at who gets attacked the most before the primaries.
the coverage of guliani these days, even in the weblog world, is too much like the coverage in the print and electronic media.
the assumption everywhere is that guliani did something GOOD on 9/11.
so,
what did he do?
run up the stairs in the north or south buildings?
not that i have heard.
all i recall is that mr. g, post sept 11, went to a lot of funerals for city workers.
so,
fdl,
could one of your columnists give us,
hour by hour,
where was guliani on sept 11?
and sept 12 for that matter?
thereby allowing us to decide what it was that he did that day
or either day
that was heroic.
that any mayor of peoria would not have done?
background:
once, when i lived in southwest Virgina, there was a coal miners’ strike.
the media covered the conflict for days, weeks, and months.
but what i found frustrating in the extreme in the major local newspaper and television coverage was
rarely, if ever, did that coverage include any mention of the central issues in the conflict between the miners and the owners.
we heard a lot of dramatic stories about “jack rocks” – sets of nails bent to destroy tires – and about scabs, and about various threats of violence.
but we rarely read or heard the central details of the conflict.
so, again
fdl,
could you fill me, and other readers, in on the central details of mr. g’s heroic actions on, and immediately after, sept 11, 2001?
thanks.
bob @ 157
You are right. Becareful what you wish for. Either way there will be a republican candidate. I am scared of Newt. So I could live with Rudy as the nominee if only for that reason.
All the GOP field are scary as President.
Some are less scary than others as the GOP nominee for President.
newspaperbrat @ 152
Thanks. I’ve got to run now but I would sure appreciate seeing the film. Email me thru the website.
Tula, thanks for this story. As a sister of two 9/11 FDNY firemen, I really appreciate you shining a light on this horrible man.
My Dad was also FDNY. Firemen never leave their brothers behind. On the day in question, they had roped off the site and would not allow firemen to enter, claiming it was too dangerous. My sister-in-law told me that a whole bunch of families went down there to protest and ended up being allowed back in to finish the job they started on the morning of 911.
Giuliani was afraid that the firemen might slip a oouple of coins in their pockets, I guess. Typical Republican.
Also, my friend Kathy Mazza died that day. She was one of the last found. May she rest in peace.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 117
I agree, but I’ll settle for Edwards and am intriqued by Obama. Gore was robbed and his returning to reclaim the office would be a great meme. Edwards and Obama ooze charisma. Hillary I wish would just go away, but I’d hold my nose and vote for her regardless of who the Republican candidate happens to be.
dmg says :”there were actually management arguments the city could have made on behalf of cutting back the number of firefighters permitted on the ground zero site — staffing issues, mainly, and secondary overtime — but of course giuliani didn’t care to make those arguments well….” Could he have been concerned, rightly as it turned out, that the site was poisonous? Could everyone in the surrounding area and more firefighters die from lung and skin infections? What about fire-readiness in the rest of the jurisdiction, with so many firefighters at Ground Zero? What did Giulani actually SAY , on the record,about the decision to reduce the force looking for bodies? I want the other side, folks!
this is really too late to post and I haven’t read the comments to see if it was posted before, but rudy’s decisions before 9/11 contributed to the tragedy
things like the radio’s among other decisions, anyway, someone needs to get his list of failure compiled for his inevitable nomination
aterrificjob @ 165
Thanks for your comment. I look forward to you finding out that information & reporting back. Nice handle, by the way.
Firefighters come out swinging against Rudolph
Tucker Faye Carlson is on the bow of the Ghouliani swiftboats against the firefighters…with he help of msgop
First Alex Witless has film of John Edwards tlking about Democrats and unions and then they go to Tucker Faye
He is attending the firefighter convention and his contention is it’s a union issue, the leadership are all Democrats and the rank and file really love Rudolph and there is no truth to he claims about 9/11
Liars for Bush
msgop has daylong coverage of Tucker Faye at the firefighters convention.
having Tucker Carlson at the firefighters is appropriate because his pants are on fire.
MSGOP launches its own swiftboat attack on the firefighters
Tucker Carlson never does reporting and it is an insult to reporters to call him one –even the shoddy bunch of today
Speaking of the firefghters union
Carlson claims the rank and file cannot be Democrats because they are 40 year old employed white guys so how could they be Democrats
oh right they are union members Tucker.
Tucker baselessly claims the leadership somehow riggs the endorsement because clearly the rank and file are Goopers. He also claimed all the Democrats gave conservative speeches because after all firefighters are really closeted goopers
MSGOP continues its all day covering of why the firefighters hate Rudy and now they have on a rudolph supporter and former police commissioner –all the criticisms of rudy are unfair and untrue what happened to the famous two sides to every issue
mscrap
: msgop continues its daylong commercial for Rudolph with another baseless appearance by his former polic chief
Contessa Brewer asked him misleading questions and he gave misleading answers
She asked if the members listen to the endorsement and he said no
hey stupid dipwad who do you think makes the endorsement –it’s the members
And went on to a very spirited defense of Rudolph where is the other side