Well, I hope that answered your questions. Thank you for the kind words as well, I find myself feeling a bit intimidated in the company of those that tend to comment here let alone those that are the primary bloggers, and that kind of intimidation is not something I feel easily which is a sign of the high calibre intellects and critical thinkers I find here.

Scotian, thanks from me, too. I always find your posts helpful and interesting.

I though it was a very good summary too Scotian, but I don’t know how closely you were following matters here when Ashcroft recused. It wasn’t “miraculous” that Comey got a Special Counsel and recusal, imo. Instead, it was “miraculous” that he dodged the independent counsel bullet, which would have given a much broader mandate.

That seems to be a point that gets lost, but I remember it pretty well bc I was furious over the in-housing. Fitzgerald did as well as anyone could in that situation, but Comey didn’t open doors with Special Prosecutor appointment, he closed them. IMO, fwiw, based on the statutes applicable and the then existing calls for Indep Counsel.

I was following reasonably closely and I remember what you are referring to, but to be honest why I said it was miraculous was because they weren’t able to limit it even further to actually blocking it altogether. And whatever else putting Fitzgerald in place may have limited how many charges could be brought (since he was not one to file charges lightly unlike some other prosecutors) versus what an independent counsel or more partisan/aggressive special prosecutor had been given the same mandate but it also put a real pit-bull with an ability to grasp details and be very meticulous in detailing them on their case which is why we got where we have I believe. I really think Fitzgerald thinks that thanks to Libby he cannot go after Cheney and he left things where they are in the hopes that the Congress will pick things up that are beyond his scope at the moment that may in the process aid in giving him another way to prosecute for the original offence. I realize this is speculation, but everything I get about Fitzgerald from his history (and my interest and awareness dates back to his terrorist prosecuting days, although I would not say I followed him closely simply I got a basic idea of who he was and what he tended to be like, since this investigation I did flesh out that understanding significantly) and nature professionally tells me he is pissed about the limits he had to work within and the ability of those he was investigating to game him. He recognized the inherent need to be ironclad before charging those at this level, and if Libby had not lied the way he did and gave him this opening he might well have been frustrated.

I don’t paint Comey as a paragon of virtue overall, and I certainly do not think much of his actions vis a vis Arar, but on this one he could have sabotaged it worse, and now that it has gone to this point he can’t walk away from what he did and it still would undercut Toensing I believe. Undercutting that one is something I will take pleasure in seeing whenever and wherever it happens for her actions in this affair from the outset. I just think it is a miracle that despite all the forces working to actively undercut this from day one both inside and out it got this far, and the prosecutor that ended up acting was one of the most professional and respectable prosecutors as a complete contrast to the horrific caricature Ken Starr brought to the profession. Whatever else it is conclusive that Libby lied to the FBI, the Grand Jury, and Obstructed Justice in a national security investigation of the outing of a covert CIA operative and this man reported to only two men, Cheney and Bush. The likelihood of a successful appeal on the merits appears unlikely thanks to the actions of both prosecutor and presiding judge, the defence was certainly competent just had bad material to work with, and the public record of how Bushco screwed around with intelligence issues and any critics during the early days post invasion especially on the nuclear case they argued cannot be wiped away nor easily dismissed. Given how far gone the American judicial system under Bush more recently in particular and the GOP over the longer term of the past quarter century have deteriorated I still believe it is miraculous that during the darkest days this investigation could not be stopped entirely by the Administration with a tame Congress and press corps and that the prosecutor that was eventually assigned the task acted within the powers granted him and actually managed to lay out the broader case against the underlying crime thanks to Libby’s indictments and convictions despite the inability to press charges because of according to Fitzgerald Libby’s obstruction.

Quite honestly this is the first thing that has given me any real hope that America has not gone too far down that road of the rule of power instead of the rule of law despite all the efforts made to take America in that direction by those charged with protecting it’s Constitution and the very premise of the rule of law and the equality of all before it. I have found watching America deteriorate over the last couple of decades and the last decade in particular extremely painful, terrifying, and horrifying. It seemed like the it can’t happen here mentality had been the demise of yet another democratic society in human history and worse I feared it would end up infecting my own nation and bringing us down as well. America is after all so much more powerful in all senses of the word with the exception of moral (and that is not as massive a gap as it once was, Harper is alas undercutting decades of hard work with his neoconservative views on foreign policy, that damned Calgary School of political thought of his just had to be fans of Leo Strauss…GRRR) power. Resisting your influences when they are not intentional is difficult enough, when they are intentional is nearly impossible these days, and once the forces of darkness have consolidated their hold on power in America it is literally a matter of time until they bring Canada under their umbrella if only to control our resources, which ironically enough will likely be increasing with new revelations thanks to global warming exposing new sources in the north.

Well, I hope that answered your questions. Thank you for the kind words as well, I find myself feeling a bit intimidated in the company of those that tend to comment here let alone those that are the primary bloggers, and that kind of intimidation is not something I feel easily which is a sign of the high calibre intellects and critical thinkers I find here.

That seems to be a point that gets lost, but I remember it pretty well bc I was furious over the in-housing. Fitzgerald did as well as anyone could in that situation, but Comey didn’t open doors with Special Prosecutor appointment, he closed them. IMO, fwiw, based on the statutes applicable and the then existing calls for Indep Counsel.

There’s probably nobody here anymore, but I’m glad I came back. That is an awesome summary Scotian, makes me proud to be in the same country.

*blush*

Thank you, kind words indeed, especially since I tend to be long winded and my sentences can run on more than a bit. I like to think I have a reasonable understanding of how American politics works as well as Canadian, it is always preferable to offer informed opinions instead of wild assed guesses/speculations without foundation in reality/fact. As I said earlier, I am not a conservative…:)

http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..from-sxsw/

I wish it was a matter of simple confusion, but it’s far worse than that. Think: bully, emotionally-abusive tactics, impaired consciences and covert-aggressive behavior.

All Americans need to pay close attention to the manipulation tactics that Republicans employ.

Manipulation is a form of emotional abuse. Republicans are emotionally abusing American citizens every time they engage in their covert aggression. The tactics of deceit, manipulation and control are a steady diet for a covert-aggressive personality. In my view, manipulators tend to be effective in the short term but fail in the long term once people get wise to what’s going on.

Traits of the covert-aggressive personality include:

* The determination to win – they value winning above all else. Every life situation is a challenge to be met, a battle to be won. They will generally stop at nothing to get what they want.

* Having a very impaired conscience

* Being deceptively civil, charming and seductive

* Capitalizing on any weakness displayed by others

* Having a disregard for the rights and needs of others

* Ambitiously seeking power and dominance over others

* Actively striving to gain advantage over others

* Will try to get away with just about anything

* The ends always justifies the means. They deceive themselves and others about what they’re really doing.

* If they think you’ve gotten the better of them, they’ll try to get back at you. For them, the battle is never over until they think they’ve won.

Here are the manipulation tactics to watch out for:

Denial
This is when the aggressor refuses to admit that they’ve done something harmful or hurtful when they clearly have. It’s a way they lie (to themselves as well as others) about their aggressive intentions. This “Who… Me?” tactic is a way of “playing innocent,” and invites the victim to feel unjustified in confronting the aggressor about the inappropriateness of a behavior. It’s also the way the aggressor gives him/herself permission to keep right on doing what they want to do. A covert-aggressive personality uses denial to protect his/her self-image.

Lying
It’s often hard to tell when a person is lying at the time he’s doing it. Fortunately, there are times when the truth will out because circumstances don’t bear out somebody’s story. But there are also times when you don’t know you’ve been deceived until it’s too late. One way to minimize the chances that someone will put one over on you is to remember that because aggressive personalities of all types will generally stop at nothing to get what they want, you can expect them to lie and cheat. Another thing to remember is that manipulators – covert-aggressive personalities that they are – are prone to lie in subtle, covert ways. Courts are well aware of the many ways that people lie, as they require that court oaths charge that testifiers tell “the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.” Manipulators often lie by withholding a significant amount of the truth from you or by distorting the truth. They are adept at being vague when you ask them direct questions. This is an especially slick way of lying’ omission. Keep this in mind when dealing with a suspected wolf in sheep’s clothing. Always seek and obtain specific, confirmable information.

Selective Inattention
This tactic is similar to and sometimes mistaken for denial. It’s when the aggressor “plays dumb,” or acts oblivious. When engaging in this tactic, the aggressor actively ignores the warnings, pleas or wishes of others, and in general, refuses to pay attention to everything and anything that might distract them from pursuing their own agenda. Often, the aggressor knows full well what you want from him when he starts to exhibit this “I don’t want to hear it!” behavior.

Rationalization
A rationalization is the excuse an aggressor tries to offer for engaging in an inappropriate or harmful behavior. It can be an effective tactic, especially when the explanation or justification the aggressor offers makes just enough sense that any reasonably conscientious person is likely to fall for it. It’s a powerful tactic because it not only serves to remove any internal resistance the aggressor might have about doing what they want to do (quieting any qualms of conscience they might have) but also to keep others off their back.

Diversion
A moving target is hard to hit. When we try to pin a manipulator down or try to keep a discussion focused on a single issue or behavior we don’t like, they’re expert at knowing how to change the subject, dodge the issue or in some way throw us a curve. They use distraction and diversion techniques to keep the focus off their behavior, move us off-track, and keep themselves free to promote their self-serving hidden agendas.

Covert Intimidation
Aggressors frequently threaten their victims to keep them anxious, apprehensive and in a one-down position. Covert-aggressives intimidate their victims by making veiled (subtle, indirect or implied) threats.

Guilt-tripping
This is one of the covert-aggressive’s two favorite weapons (the other is shaming). It’s a special kind of intimidation tactic. One thing that aggressive personalities know well is that other types of persons have very different consciences than they do. Manipulators are often skilled at using what they know to be the greater conscientiousness of their victims as a means of keeping them in a self-doubting, anxious, and submissive position. The more conscientious the potential victim, the more effective guilt is as a weapon. Aggressive personalities of all types use guilt-tripping so frequently and effectively as a manipulative tactic. All a manipulator has to do is suggest to the conscientious person that they don’t care enough, are too selfish, etc., and that person immediately starts to feel bad. On the contrary, a conscientious person might try until they’re blue in the face to get a manipulator (or any other aggressive personality) to feel badly about a hurtful behavior, acknowledge responsibility, or admit wrongdoing, to absolutely no avail.

Shaming
Using rhetorical comments, subtle sarcasm and other techniques, covert-aggressives can invite you to feel ashamed of yourself. This technique is used as a means of increasing fear and self-doubt in others. Covert-aggressives use this tactic to make others feel inadequate or unworthy, and therefore, submit to them. It’s an effective way to foster a continued sense of personal inadequacy in the weaker party, thereby allowing an aggressor to maintain a position of dominance.

Playing the Victim Role
This tactic involves portraying oneself as an innocent victim of circumstance or someone else’s behavior in order to gain sympathy, evoke compassion and thereby get something from another. One thing that covert-aggressive personalities count on is the fact that less calloused and hostile personalities usually can’t stand to see anyone suffering. Therefore, the tactic is simple. Convince your victim you’re suffering in some way, and they’ll try to relieve your distress.

Vilifying the Victim
This tactic is frequently used in conjunction with the tactic of playing the victim role. The aggressor uses this tactic to make it appear he is only responding (i.e. defending himself against) aggression on the part of the victim. It enables the aggressor to better put the victim on the defensive.

Playing the Servant Role
Covert-aggressives use this tactic to cloak their self-serving agendas in the guise of service to a more noble cause. It’s a common tactic but difficult to recognize. By pretending to be working hard on someone else’s behalf, covert-aggressives conceal their own ambition, desire for power, and quest for a position of dominance over others.

Seduction
Covert-aggressive personalities are adept at charming, praising, flattering or overtly supporting others in order to get them to lower their defenses and surrender their trust and loyalty.

Projecting the Blame (blaming others)
Aggressive personalities are always looking for a way to shift the blame for their aggressive behavior. Covert-aggressives are not only skilled at finding scapegoats, they’re expert at doing so in subtle, hard to detect ways.

Minimization
This tactic is a unique kind of denial coupled with rationalization. When using this maneuver, the aggressor attempting to assert their abusive behavior isn’t really as harmful or irresponsible as someone else may be claiming. It’s the aggressor’s attempt to make a molehill out of a mountain.

(Excerpt from In Sheep’s Clothing: Understanding and Dealing With Manipulative People — by George K. Simon)

- Tom

Mary4 at 192 — I wasn’t talking about his integrity overall, simply his actions on the Wilson invesigation in getting the ball rolling for an independent counsel and the need therefor. Ashcroft will not speak about it, neither will Tenet (he’d prefer to make money on his book deal instead, I hear), so Comey is the next rung down in the matter. I can’t vouch for him overall, I don’t know his whole record, but the rationale for getting Ashcroft’s hands off the case due to the creeping stench of Rove’s hands helping steer was nothing short of miraculous. I’ll let folks who actually know Comey chime in on him overall — but in this particular matter, his actions were spot on and necessary. And Toensing has lobbed unsuccessful stinkbombs without some detailed pushback from someone in the know for long enough for my taste. I say bring on Comey.

I know this was not addressed to me, but I have to chime in my agreement. The fact that Comey was able to get Ashcroft to recuse and then assign Fitzgerald with the terms of mandate and authority he was given in this politicized a judicial structure truly was miraculous. I would indeed love to see him come in as a response to Toensing testifying, I have found listening to this woman to be one of the few experiences that makes listening to fingers down a blackboard preferable to me and I am hypersensitive as a mild autistic so that is a really high threshold. It is not her style it is trying to follow her so called logic and reasoning, especially since I actually have read the various original materials she is so shamefully twisting/revising when she tries to bury the truth of this issue, both Libby’s convictions and why he was obstructing justice and a criminal investigation into the outing of a NOC. She wants people to accept that because there was no underlying crime charged that it did not exits, yet when Fitzgerald indicted Libby on Obstruction it was because he had “thrown sand” in his eyes making it impossible for him to proceed further in charging for the original crime. IOW Libby’s convictions especially for obstruction of justice prove Fitzgerald’s stated reasoning for not laying further charges was because he was prevented by active resistance and not because there was no “there” there as Toensing and her cronies would have all believe.

I was reassured today to see a poll on CNN about how 69% oppose a Libby pardon, 19% supported the idea. At least if nothing else she and her cronies still have a lot of work to do to make this politically viable before the end of Bush’s term/after Nov 2008 elections. Now, the job is to make it even less viable so that there will be a lasting price to the GOP when Bush pardons Libby on the way out the door, that is unless he is prevented by impeachment proceedings launched as I understand that is the one circumstance he cannot use the power of pardons, and if the House can indict Bush’s support structure (Gonzales, Rove, Cheney, that level) first the chances that the House will not turn up enough additional evidence to go for Bush is in my expectation are low. I also think impeachment is a necessary act if America is to have any chance of clearing a significant amount of the stain it is wearing internationally even among (especially!) allies within this generation, and will go a long way to exposing and censuring this kind of dangerous approach to governing as was seen by Bush and abetted by the now dethroned GOP Congress.

I really think impeachment is viable so long as the evidence is there for it, as others in the past have noted the GOP wanted to impeach Clinton, the wider public was not so inclined as there was little anger outside of the partisans over Clinton’s actions if anything it was more indifference/mild sorrow which is why his numbers went up in response to a clearly solely partisanly motivated (as opposed to substantively) based impeachment action. In this case though there is more than sufficient basis for substantial based impeachment proceedings and there is clearly a mood of worn patience in the public where Bush and the GOP federally are concerned. Provided the evidence of systemic incompetence and/or intentional gutting of the responsibilities of his Office (starting wars, taking care of returned vets, New Orleans/Katrina, spying on Americans without warrants, arrest and detention without habeas (sp) corpus, the Libby convictions and the Plame betrayal, politizing the judiciary, the hiding of the true extent of what went on at Abu Ghraib still to this day by the Administration) there is more than enough that there has to be paper trails and some weak links that when realizing pardons cannot come if convicted from Bush should not only provide the proof but establish such a political dynamic in the country that any GOP Senator up for re-election in 2008 that does not convict may well not have a chance to win reelection.

I know I have no direct say in this given my nationality, but I want the America I used to respect back as my neighbour. What Bushco and the GOP have done to America over the past decade is disheartening indeed, and the spillover effect it is having into our own nation’s politics despite all our efforts to resist (as shown by it taking Harper this long to gain any power and he still hasn’t managed to dazzle the voters enough to gain his majority yet, but he is certainly trying and using the Bush/GOP playbook of smear, vote buying, wedge issue politics and total war approach to defeating any opponent/enemy) is not pleasant. If this cancer can be cut out by impeachment it should go a long way to actively discrediting the worst of movement conservativism’s hold within our politics and I really would love to see that. So I am self interested, but primarily I want the occasionally overbearing yet trustworthy in a pinch neighbour I grew up knowing that valued free thinking/speech above all else and the right to believe as one felt or not to believe at all so long as it was not directly/actively harming others back. What your government has become scares me beyond belief, and there is no way you could pay me enough to be willing to cross your border while Bush is still in office and even after he leaves I would need to take a long hard think about it depending of the actions/inactions of the following Administration. I never thought I’d feel that way until the last decade and especially in the post 9/11/01 world, although even before that day during Bush’s first months I was growing increasingly uncomfortable about what I was seeing well beyond simply differences of political preferences but more fundamental in terms of how it was going against the basic matrix of the Constitution. When a government betrays/ignores the basic social framework that their nation is based upon that sends warning signals to me that something very dangerous/ugly is going on beneath the surface. Boy was that ever the case this time out with GWB, personally I am impressed my nation has managed to resist as much of the insanity that has infected your political process for as long as we have. If you can impeach him and more importantly his policies and methods of operation before he leaves office that will go a loooooong way towards helping to disempower the infrastructure around him causing them to consolidate and withdraw out of Canada to a great extent if not completely, and the sooner we get rid of Dobson and company and the politicos they affiliate with the happier I will be. Not to mention the general disfavour that will come from said dicrediting overall.

Bc Ashcroft was sued directly in Arar, he recused and Comey called the shots on the govt response on Arar. To say I don’t think it shows integrity would be a wild understatement. Since Arar was the rabbit, Comey pretty much set the course on state secrets to cover up torture.

As bad as Arar is, I think he vacationed even further from integrityland when it comes to Padilla. Then the effort to try to get Haynes out of committee and onto the Fourth Circuit. Add in giving a thumbs up to the FBI tactics in Higazy.

My take has always been that Comey’s first priority in the Plame investigation was to shut down an Indep Counsel appointment and he did a good job of that IMO. If you look back, even someone like Joe Lieberman was calling for an Independent Counsel appointment. IMO, the integrity race was won by the FBI investigators who dug in their heels early on and were less than thrilled about Ashcroft refusing to recuse and getting updates on Rove.

All fwiw – I just haven’t seen many things as egregious as what Comey pulled off with Padilla and he set the state secrets course with Arar’s case. So for full disclosure purposes – I am flat out not a fan. I’m sure it colors my opinions.