
(Photo by searmid — do click through the link and read the background on the shot. Some lovely, enigmatic photos here.)
Digby has some thoughts on the Libby trial and its exposure of the press relationship with the Bush Administration that I want to discuss a bit further:
If the trial did nothing else it showed the sickeningly parasitic relationship between many in the press and the Republicans. The Libby apologists in the media and the political establishment are screaming bloody murder about the trial because there was no "underlying crime" so Scooter shouldn't have even been been tried for lying to the Grand Jury. Forgetting their unbelievable gall in making this argument after their non-stop shrieking about the "rule 'o law" in the Lewinsky matter when the alleged underlying crime of sexual harrassment had been thrown out of court on the merits, their crocodile tears for the first amendment are especially rich coming from the people who wanted to jail reporters in stories that revealed current illegal and extra-constitutional policies on the part of the administration. Dana Priest and others are actually doing the work they are supposed to do which is overseeing government and they are vilified by the same Republican establishment that has otherwise wrapped itself in the first amendment to defend Tim Russert and Judy Miller and the Bush administration.
This isn't brain surgery. A reporter's privilege should not be used to help powerful people in government lie to the public about what it's doing or punish its enemies for speaking out against it. It exists to protect people who are risking their livelihoods by speaking out against those same powerful people. This is not hard for rational people to understand and yet in Washington they are so confused by their relationships with the powerful that they seem to be speaking in tongues on this issue. (emphasis mine)
The thing is, as Digby rightly points out, there are a number of reporters who are not confused by this at all. One of the reporters who testified at the Libby trial, David Sanger, has been fairly careful all along about sourcing, granting of anonymity, and being a skeptic, and he had a piece in the NYTimes Week in Review on Sunday that puts this issue into a broader context regarding national security matters and public scrutiny thereof:
And more than ever it is building on reporters whose job it is to go beyond reporting the latest conclusions of a secret National Intelligence Estimate and explain to their readers whether those conclusions — and the always-murky data attached to them — are reasonable, or being twisted to fit a policy agenda.None of this started with Mr. Libby, of course, but his case centered on a brief window in time that summer, when the White House was forced to admit that it couldn’t support President Bush’s assertion that Saddam Hussein had sought uranium in Africa. Amid nasty finger-pointing between the White House and the C.I.A., the administration suddenly had to declassify its intelligence findings, in a desperate effort to explain why Mr. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney made so many false assertions. Mr. Libby was consumed in that effort….
…For the first time in memory in dealing with a White House that prizes “no comments,” it is easier to squeeze officials into explaining how they reached their conclusions — and who dissented.
“As a nation, we’ve lost something that’s very hard to get back, which is the benefit of the doubt,” said Ashton B. Carter, a Harvard professor worked for the Clinton administration and is now on an advisory panel to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. “It will be years before we restore our reputation for veracity, and the only way to do that is to reveal more about the sensitive information that underlies our policies.”…
The big question is how long this flirtation with openness will last, and how long journalists will remember the bitter lessons that arose from their inability (critics would say unwillingness) to insist that the government talk not only about its conclusions, but about its logic…. (emphasis mine)
And that truly is the crux of the matter here. The contrast between Sanger's testimony at the Libby trial, and that of the WH PR Flack Cathie Martin and that of Judy Miller and/or Tim Russert stands out enormously. Sanger's rare as possible granting of anonymity contrasted against the backdrop of Russert's assumption that every conversation is off the record, unless otherwise agreed later in the conversation, does not show the Russerts of the media world in a flattering light. Nor should it.
During the Republican-controlled Executive and Congressional reign of the last six years, we had a perfect storm of failures of oversight. The Bush Administration has failed to police itself in terms of integrity and ethics, preferring instead to go on an orgy of cronyism and power consolidation. The Republican-led Congress all too happy to enable the Bush Administration in this, in order to maintain its hold on the perks purse and the PR appearance of power. The judiciary tied itself in Constitutional knots over terrorism prosecutions and ideological tangents over precedential, Constitutional duties. And, in the meantime, the vaunted Fourth Estate concentrated more on perfecting its curtsy to the Unilateral Executive, save for a few members who continued the important wariness and mistrust of those in power, but consequently spent far too much of their time relegated to page A-17 on a Friday by a timid editorial class whose personal interests were thought to be served by not ticking off those in power.
This is not new — the need to please those in power warring against the public's interest in questioning those self-same political power brokers has always been fought. But the unprecedented scope of these failures across such a broad spectrum from the top to the bottom of political leadership in this nation of ours has been as painful as it has been infuriating.
It has taken the jolt of multiple, successive failures to wake up a large portion of the American electorate, the political establishment and the media at large. And, even so, we have so much further to go — and it is going to take all of us to keep things moving in a more pro-active direction.
We must continue to ask questions, demand accountability, and search for answers. From ourselves, our elected officials, and anyone in the public sphere.
It is the questions that are important — for it is through the questions that we begin to see that more are needed — and to understand that whatever initial answers are given, they are the opaque and superficial first blush. The opacity of the Bush Administration has been especially honed — not just with the American press, but with the public at large — but it is to the public that the Administration is, ultimately, answerable at every level. We forget that at our peril, and the press forgets this at a costly mortgage to all of our futures for generations to come.
The price of the failures of the last six years is steep. We have lost something that will be years in the regaining, if ever, and that is our national integrity. I keep going back to the basics that Dan Froomkin laid out in his Neiman piece back in February — that any of it had to be written down astonishes me, but clearly there is a desperate need for some plain-spoken common sense. Skepticism ought not be a lost art, especially in Washington, D.C., given the penchant for spin that so many within the Beltway possess. Someone's interpretation of events is variable, depending on the perspective, but the facts themselves ought not be malleable. And we would do well to remind ourselves of that frequently.
What I would like is more reporting which lays out clearly when someone is giving personal opinion, and what is based on hard, cold fact; what is interpretive, and what is analytical; what interest or rationale is propelling the analysis, and what is behind a particular push — in short, the surrounding circumstances and the history alongside the spin, including some background on the person doing the spinning. This is what we try to do here every day, and what people do all across the blogs on both sides of the aisle — people do not get information in a vaccuum, they are sophisticated enough to know that there is context behind every parsed, focus-group-tested phrasing. What we do not need from the press is more sales pitch — instead, we would, as Sanger suggests, appreciate a bit more deconstruction. And some plain, old honesty and skepticism from the people we depend on to peer into the halls of power and report not just what they are told to say, but also what those who are doing the telling would prefer that we not know — the devil, as they say, is in the details.
Transparency in government is necessary. It is equally appreciated in reporting. It puts us all on an equal footing, trying to parse out the reality from the malfeasance which can only, in the long run, serve as a deterrent to those who would seek to use the public sphere as their own, personal ideological playground.



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Rita Cosby Out At MSNBC
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..43081.html
Christy!
fitz!
JUSTICE!
You’ve done it again! Way to go on the collusion between the Beltway MSM and BushCo that the Libby case has disclosed, like aspens when they turn in their roots…
Talking about accountability, I suppose everyone has already seen this?
Army Surgeon General Forced to Retire
Hey all — do go back and read the entire Digby piece and the Sanger one as well. Both are quite good and Digby’s is especially worth a read and then a long ponder.
Re: Rita Cosby:
That doesn’t surprise me at all. MSNBC had put her in deep freeze for a while, and then they thawed her to cover the ghoulish tabloid Anna Nicole Smith saga, sending her to Florida and the Bahamas, a sort of last hurrah, like a star that shines its brightest before it disappears.
btw, I loved the photo at the top — illustrating this piece with a picture that peers into a dilapidated, shoddy interior that is being illuminated from without seemed like such a perfect visual representation of what I was trying to say here. If you click through the photo link above, you’ll see a number of these great interior shots from the photographer. Good stuff.
Biodun at 7 — “ghoulish” is the perfect descriptor for the ANS coverage, too. Blergh.
Atrios is the most succinct on this issue, Tim Russert is a fake journalist.
This got EPU’d at the end of the last thread.
Slow start to my first day between work projects, but I’ve got a post about Mutual Linking that I hope people will check out here.
Kos just put up a front page post highlighting and elaborating on Jay Rosen’s glowing review of FDL’s excellent coverage of the Libby trial.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..13111/5666
Hi Christie
Good piece, but you might want to change your cite on Sanger’s piece to the Week in Review section, not the Magazine.
I merely bring it up because you sent me right over to the Magazine thinking I had missed something yesterday:)
Someone’s interpretation of events is variable, depending on the perspective, but the facts themselves ought not be malleable.
Unfortunately there are few if any facts reported on the nightly news. There are far too many people who do not read, or have cable. Those “dead enders” the so called red american people who’d rather let rupert murdock tell them what’s going on in the world than grow a brain, seek out facts and decide for themselves.
From the Digby link in the post. Consider this exchange between Andrea Mitchell and Dana Priest, representing constrasting reporting practices, that says it all:
dratty at 13 — Ooops, thanks — I had this in my notes wrong. Will fix that above.
Christy thank you for another wonderful post.
In the category of unmitigated, unrepentant gall:
I somehow managed to listed to a goodly chunk of shooter’s speech to aiP*C this a.m.
Stunning & disgusting that he doesn’t appear to have dropped one word of his bellicose, self-serving nonsense.
Even more-so that he got standing o after standing o, no doubt by using clever linguistic tricks to guarantee same. But nevertheless, I was appalled by how much support he has, at least among that carefully sieved crowd.
puppethead @
10
What a minute. Who’s accusing Tim Russert of being a journalist? He’s a talk-show host. He’s sort of a male Rosie O’Donnell, only without the tough questions.
Fascinating. I sent an email earlier today to McEnroe pointing out that there ware way many more of these people than just Russert–and then cited Sanger as an exception.
And nice little essay in Kos about Blogs Shine in Libby Trial.
I’ll let you wonder and wonder what blog they are mostly writing about, with the following suitably edited:
And there’s more about J___ and M___ and J___ and a nice article linked that is titled
They’re Not in Your Club but They Are in Your League
Nice. (Too bad that Kos didn’t also mention P___ and TR___ and ___.)
By the way, who is going to be on hand Friday at the Plame Hearings in the House?
Thanks for the post, Christy!
OT– Professor Tony Smith is chatting at the Post right now about the Dems and Iraq as a f/u to his great article in yesterday’s outlook– it’s fascinating but I wanted to bring this over.
(bold mine)
kerpow!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01506.html
thanks for that link *xyz. Nice meeting you last Saturday. Wasn’t emptywheel magnificent?
Just got into Austin, my interview of Dan Rather is in an hour. My intro talks about how the kind of journalism he practiced, staring down Richard Nixon and George HW Bush, is in short supply these days. Certainly a completely alien beast to Monsigneur Tim.
Whither news?
Article about the Project for Excellence in Journalism’s “The State of the News Media” report issued today. I think they missed something here:
Although this seems right:
Jane Hamsher @ 22
Congrats to both of you pioneers!
I’m up for a little transparency -
Army Surgeon General Kiley Retires -
per my downstairs comment – this guy should have been fired immediately along with his CO and Scty of Army – he was in charge up until 6 mos ago, he was in charge when WR care ops were privatized
oh and btw -
He’s the same guy poo pooing detainee abuse
does he have a youtube of Sec Def Gates actually fixing IranContra ?!?!? really, why was he allowed to retire ?!?!?
Prof @ 20
And do you have press credentials?
How about an FDL photographer, sitting on the floor between the witnesses and the committee, focusing on those testifying?
How about some politics video?
How about some live-blogging?
Hi Jane — I hope you get a chance to ask Dan Rather whether he thinks the Bushies had it in for him all along; I think the TANG font fiasco was a direct descendant of the GHWB walkout. Have fun!
Epu’d from last peice.
The post needs a Dark Black photoshop movie poster of
Pirates of the Carlyle
Curse of the Black Perle
Prof at 27 — You know, for a hearing that just got announced last week? We’re working on it and when we have details, I promise we’ll let you all know. *g* But, geesh…they just announced the meeting time this morning from the committee…
I recall Pach saying he was attending the Waxman hearings Friday.
HI all. Christy interesting post!
One of the things that I really havent’ heard talked about much is how the Journalist got to the point where they are spouting the GOP lines. Many of the reporters who cover the WH are very ambitious and want to keep their jobs. They were told early on in this administration that either they wrote nice things about the Bushies or they lost access. Loosing access for a reporter means loosing their jobs, especially if you are the newbie on the block. Access is everything. Helen Thomas can fight back but the new kid from one of the new services can’t. So the spin gets out there.
OT- Another Repub wants to Preznit:
Just what we need, another Republican Texan Prez. Yahoo Ya’ll!!!
And have fun in Texas Jane!!!
TeddySanFran @ 31
Just pointing out that I think management’s attending to this.
In Rita’s own words:
Another “journalist” who “will explore the new opportunities.” Not the new opportunities. Just opportunities. Maybe in the Bahamas.
I think Siun said she could go to Chicago and Marcy’s looking into it, for Fitzgerald and Black.
OT but intersting.
Did you guys see the story about Henry Waxman going after Condi Rice? Seems she has been ignoring his letters for years.
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/….._0312.html
I’m sending another donation – geesh, the Black trial, Valerie Plame testifing, Dan Rather ….. I love you guys! We need you guys!
My my, we don’t want much, do we?!
How much pay are these guys’n’gals getting?
PayPal is our friend…..
…and the times, they are a-changing.
It’s so interesting that media and technological innovation have a symbiotic relationship that puts all of this into a much broader perspective. I can’t put my (typing) finger on the exact statement of the issue, but I have an idea about the sequence. I guess in the end it’s about democracy and citizen participation.
Start with the music business, where greedy and wasteful marketing and distribution practices virtually killed quality and ended albums and the music world we grew up on, and then this bloated industry was savaged almost overnight by the internet. It’s a complicated issue I don’t really know very much about, but live music and citizen connection to individual artists and groups is bigger than ever before, along with myspace and other access, and the evolving result is that regular people are more involved in the process and enjoying more good music than ever before.
The same thing is happening, with a slower rollout, in the film business. Christy has that new bigscreen, and she’ll have access to films and documentaries made with high-quality accessible technology, and cinematic storytelling will become more populist.
And that gets us to journalism. Music got hit 4 or 5 years ago or more, the film business started reacting a couple of years later, and now all of a sudden the MSM is starting to figure out that it might have a little problem. Lots of talk for a while now about newspaper problems and network news bureaus under siege, but that hasn’t slowed down the right wing manipulation of these formats, in all of the ways that CHS is talking about. So established (and “celebrity”) journalists will probably have to react and go back to doing the job, or soon enough the job won’t exist.
There is a vast, growing, connected world out there that isn’t satisfied with talking points, spin, and sound bites. And thanks to technology and the power of basic citizens, at the grass roots level standard journalism practice is alive and well and getting stronger every day.
So just as
From Raw Story. Maybe the Senate will get off their collective butts. Well, one can hope.
b>Halliburton’s Dubai move sparks US political ire
Published: Monday March 12, 2007
A weekend announcement by Halliburton, the US oil services giant, that it is shifting its corporate headquarters to Dubai from Texas triggered an angry response from some US lawmakers Monday.
….
“It’s an example of corporate greed at its worst,” Democratic Senator Patrick Leahy, chairman of the powerful Senate Judiciary Committee, said in a statement.
“This is an insult to the US soldiers and taxpayers who paid the tab for their no-bid contracts and endured their overcharges for all these years,” he charged.
“At the same time they’ll be avoiding US taxes, I’m sure they won’t stop insisting on taking their profits in cold hard US cash.”
Jane Hamsher @
23
Go Jane! {{{{{ break a leg }}}}}
I still can’t get over how Judy Miller got away with using a single source for all her reporting, college frehmen are held to higher standards than the NYT it seems. But how come Judy never caught on that all the people in the bush administration leaking all seemed to be saying the same thing? It’s almost like Karl Rove or Dick were organizing the leaks? So in conclusion if your first source is screwy Judy then you find an other source! Unless you like getting lied to that is.
I got on Howie Kurtz’s chat today: (Disclaimer: I love trying to irritate him because he is so irritating.)
I wrote back that “I fervently believe you are wrong. Hence, the Iraq War.” Oh, and the front page headlines in the Washpost are about Clinton and Obama?
Topanga-lib @ 36
I was just about to post this. For years, we’ve been wondering why Congress hasn’t been asking about Niger/the 16 words/Wilson/Plame. And now we know: They HAVE been asking. But nobody’s been answering. Waxman’s letters are all wonderfully blunt. His letter to Fitz
( http://oversight.house.gov/Doc…..-02108.pdf )
refers to Valerie Plame in no uncertain terms as “a covert CIA agent”. His latest letter to Condi
( http://oversight.house.gov/Doc…..-61034.pdf ), calls the Niger/uranium claims “fabricated”, “bogus”, and “a hoax”. Looks like the chair of the oversight committee is interested in, well, oversight.
Re: transformation facing journalism:
In addition to everything that’s been said about blogosphere’s (especially FDL live-blogging) covering of the Libby case and trial. Newspaper industry’s problems with losing ad revenues because of online competition. The emergence of multiple platforms like podcasts, web-streaming, Youtube, vblogs, and so on, and so on. Talk about a major paradigm shift on all levels.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 30
Jane should ask Dan Rather if he’d like to help Live Blog the Waxman hearings. If he’s got the chops, he’d could even help with the wrapup on Politics TV at day’s end…
Waxman will have a gas the next two years. He’s on fire: Plamegate, Rice, maybe even the Darth himself. Why not?
Adie @
40
Reading my mind, Adie. I bought 2 copies of Anatomy of Deceit & U.S. vs George Bush through the links here, but this a.m. is the first time I’ve hit that PayPal button. It’s the least I can do in support of what goes on here…
in more ways than one if he can finagle a way to bring testimony @ Halliburton hearings around to the super secret energy task force meetings @ OVP:)
When I first read Ashton Carter’s comment about the benefit of the doubt, I did not take it the way I think he meant it. There is a benefit in doubt and you hit it on the head when you talked about skepticism. Skepticism is what has been and continues to be lacking from so much of journalism. It shows the real benefit of doubting.
I don’t have cable but when I occasionally watch an outlet like CNN I am amazed that I can watch a dozen stories in a row and (even weeding out the missing white woman and the cat up the tree ones) I find that there is not a single one that doesn’t have some major error or omission, or reflects unquestioningly some Administration talking point. And, of course, it’s not just cable. All of the media except for a few journalists and the rare lurching into reality of an otherwise airhead like Chris Matthews behaves this way. It’s like the adults have left the building or the benchwarmers have taken to the field. The Libby trial has shed light on a deplorable situation, but, realistically, I have yet to see any changes.
things come undone @ 44
Exactly. Judy, her editor and a large chunk of the *senior* MSM would be bounced out of Journalism 101 on their ears. Instead, here they are, bringing us the news. It’s not that they don’t know how, it’s that they won’t.
Another point is that there is a demand for *real news*, witness Firedogs chipping in on a voluntary basis to get boots into the courtroom for the Libby Trial. I hope enough money is going in to justify this effort, but I know I send more than i ever have paid for a newspaper subscription, and will continue to do so.
So, the skills exist, the technology exists and the market exists. And we still have to make our own press? Conclusion: something else is going on here.
So Dan Rather is now living in Austin? He moved outta New York? Somehow I missed that memo.
Waxman to Rice
Take that!
Anyone think the neocons fell out of favor?
WASHINGTON – Anti-war lawmakers in Congress are “undermining” U.S. troops in Iraq by trying to limit President Bush’s spending requests for military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, Vice President Dick Cheney said Monday.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..wh/us_iraq
Biodun @
7
It’s funny, but my thirteen-year-old remarked this morning that for the first time in a while we didn’t have any “missing white woman” stories.
Guess she missed this one. ;-)
I know I didn’t.
Oh, wrt Henry Waxman and the Search for Truth, the Oversight Committee has a really good website.
On it you’ll find lots of news, you can sign up for e-mail updates (geek alert!) and he has an e-mail contact form that goes to him as committee chairman, so it doesn’t reject people with the ‘wrong’ zip.
I hope the other committees get around to doing that, it’s really useful.
Frank Probst @ 46
Topanga-lib @ 36
OT but intersting.
Did you guys see the story about Henry Waxman going after Condi Rice? Seems she has been ignoring his letters for years.
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/….._0312.html
——————————————————————————————–
I was just about to post this. For years, we’ve been wondering why Congress hasn’t been asking about Niger/the 16 words/Wilson/Plame. And now we know: They HAVE been asking. But nobody’s been answering. Waxman’s letters are all wonderfully blunt. His letter to Fitz ( http://oversight.house.gov/Doc…..-02108.pdf ) refers to Valerie Plame in no uncertain terms as “a covert CIA agent”. His latest letter to Condi
( http://oversight.house.gov/Doc…..-61034.pdf ),
calls the Niger/uranium claims “fabricated”, “bogus”, and “a hoax”. Looks like the chair of the oversight committee is interested in, well, oversight.
—————————————————————————————————-
I wonder if Chris Matthews will mention this today at all. He’s always declaring his noble intent of getting to the bottom of the communication or lack thereof (between intel agencies and the WH) about the uranium claims – as if there were this black hole of evidence regarding the lies and the cover-up. If he read Waxman’s newest letter to Rice, he’d see that it alone contains a documentable timeline of glaring lies. If he were worth his word, he’d pitch this “hardball” pronto and get Waxman on his show today. Not holding my breath just yet.
Jane Hamsher @
23
Courtesy of the Beeb, this classic Watergate-era exchange:
Nixon: “Are you running for something?”
Rather: “No, Mr. President. Are you?”
Jane Hamsher in Austin ?!?!?
didn’t know DVF worked in burnt orange:)
mr. cbl and I faced south and did a solid “We’re Not Worthy”
are you totally tied up ? on a tight schedule ?
imagine so – fyi- if you are not vegetarian
extra moist brisket & homemade cream corn at Rudy’s (any Rudy’s)
seafood – Truluck’s on 4th
breakfast at Four Seasons
corry342 @
48
Now THAT would be most excellent!
Biodun @ 53
Jane and Dan are at Austin’s South X Southwest festival.
Great post, as usual, Christy. I only have one kinda’ negative word for you. That word is “Spell-check”
I usually don’t do such corrective observations, usually I just see them and move on. Sometimes I even think it’s a tad annoying when others do, but “ipersonal nterests” and “agaist” distracted me so that I had to read the sentences twice. Other than that, you had so many good points, I love it that you bring them to the forefront of public discourse.
I hope Jane’s interview produces some great Ratherisms like these two classics he uttered in the wee hours of election night 2000:
“Frankly we don’t know whether to wind our watch or bark at the moon.”
“This race is tight like a too-small bathing suit on a too-long ride home from the beach.”
bellesouth @ 54
Question for anyone. I assume that if someone takes an oath of office, there is some mechanism for enforcing that oath? I’ve never heard of any such thing mentioned specifically. Me, I’d lump it under ‘high crimes and misdemeanors’. Anyone know?
bellesouth @ 45
In fairness, by “both” I think he probably meant he hopes that news channels can report the news and get the ratings, not that they can report the news and be entertainment.
O/T questions for you legal eagles out there (I’m in the middle of reading Froomkin and I know someone here will hopefully be able to provide an answer for me).
If Rove is found to have been involved in the firings of the Attorneys General what is the recourse legally? Will this be the straw that finally pushes the camel out of the White House?
Thanks.
Ann @ 64—
Those were corrected shortly after the post went up.
If you refresh the whole page I trust those will look ok now.
Our boy is all over the place, working HIS magic. When the going gets tough prez, just leave DC.
AP – Undeterred by protesters who have dogged him at every stop on his five-nation Latin American trip, President Bush strove Monday in Guatemala to convince the region’s residents that the United States is a compassionate nation. It’s the same message he delivered earlier at stops in Brazil, Uruguay and Colombia.
Neil @ 39
Nice catch. Has Rayne seen this? More fuel for her fire!
Since we are discussing accountability it looks as if the House Judicary Committee plans to talk with KKKarl. Schumer is saying the Senate committee will be expressing a desire to have a chat with boy too.
http://www.realcities.com/mld/…..884148.htm
CHS –
Another one out of the ball park!
[snip] how long journalists will remember the bitter lessons that arose from their inability (critics would say unwillingness) to insist that the government talk not only about its conclusions, but about its logic…[snip]
To *remember*, first you have to *learn* and near as I can tell, 99.999 percent haven’t and won’t.
Neil @ 11:03 -
Oh, pleeeeeeeeezzzzzzze, can we all say a silent prayer (or whatever supplication method you prefer) that Palast has this one nailed? Wouldn’t it be just delicious if rover’s boy *is* guilty of a crime? I only hope that someone here who knows the appropriate committee makes sure they get this information.
jayackroyd @ 63:
Thanks for that clarification. I try to track as much as I can. Don’t like to miss anything. *g*
oh and Jane,
in case you brought the kidz-
we have 8 acres, a creek, and impeccable poodle sitting credentials
HotFlash @ 66
There’s no enforcement other than firing (hah!) or impeachment. The Framers did not anticipate an entire administration of oathbreakers.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 69
Think Progress has a nice fact check of the compassionate conservatism at work in our dealings with Latin America. But that’s okay; I’m sure the reforms instituted by the IMF and World Bank have done wonders and more than compensated for our paltry aid.
Lotta crap coming out of the Bush guys lately. Haven’t heard anything definitive out of our Demo front-runner for prez in so long, it almost hurts. Every day is more desultory than the day before.
Frank Probst @
18
“I’m not a journalist but I play one on TV.”
The problem with Tim Russert is he happens to be a head of the news division so he gets to decide what the news is. And he’s (literally) marketed by NBC as a journalist. How is the average person supposed to know what a sycophant to the power elite he is?
And then there’s NBC’s other “journalist” personality, Brian Williams. He thinks it’s his duty to listen to Rush Limbaugh. Ugh. It is very sad that compared to the other corporate TV news outlets, NBC is the least awful.
WRT journalism and ethics, how can the FCC rationalize renewing any on-air license to Fox, after the documented lack of ethics and obvious brain washing techniques they employ? The FCC gives licenses and monitors the airwaves but the airwaves/frequencies belong to the people and we should make our voices heard about how we feel about Fox renewing their FCC license.
15 gem Dan Ratherisms:
“This thing is tighter than Joan River’s face, and damn near as frightening.”
“We’re pumped here in the newsroom, like the sleep-deprived junkie who gave me these pills at the walk-in clinic.”
“If I had a nickel for every one of those 19,000 rejected ballots, I’d be sitting at about 950 bucks right now.”
“It’s tighter than a prairie dog’s butt in a dust bowl!”
“As the fight for the White House drags onto into the 11th round, Gore must feel like a desperate boxer and I’ll bet Bush’s ear is looking mighty tasty right now.”
“Voters are pulling on their ballot levers like rats trying to get a pellet in a Skinner box!”
“Well, hold me down and stomp me like a hamster in a crush video, this has been one long night.”
“This race is tighter than a face lift on a 50 year auditioning for ‘Dawson’s Creek’.”
“If Florida is ‘the big tamale’, then Texas must be ‘M-m-m-my Chalupa!’”
“Tonight we’ve seen more ups and downs than a Viagra conference.”
“It’s all about chads. Chads, chads, chads. Chad, chad, bo-bad, banana-fana, fo-fad. Chad.”
“This race is about as hard to call as a deaf hog up a sassafras tree.”
“You put Florida in; you put Florida out. You put Florida in; then you shake it all about.”
“It’s a steelcage deathmatch between the bubbas and the bubbes, and I’m not bettin’ bupkes on the outcome.”
“Politics makes strange bedfellows and this election is so close, Bush and Gore may have to move bunkbeds into the Lincoln bedroom.”
“This race is tighter than Pat Buchanan’s sphincter during Gay Pride week.”
“We take it on faith that kissing your sister gets either old or illegal after the second week.”
“George W. Bush is like a whorehouse pianist — he can see the prize, but he can’t touch it.”
“This election is bouncing around like Dolly Parton jumping rope on speed.”
“Bush thought of his brother as a giant electoral PEZ dispenser, but when he snapped his head back on November 7, what he pulled out of Governor Jeb’s neck was not the sweet cherry-red ‘Bush’ candy he’d been counting on but the bitter lemon-yellow candy known as ‘Undecided’, and he’s surely finding it hard to swallow.”
“Controversy is bubblin’ like a gut full o’ bad gumbo.”
“This race is tighter than Ted Kennedy at a single-malt chugoff, and somebody just opened up the Glenlivet.”
“Those Florida results are gyrating like my tongue in Diane Sawyer’s ear last night.”
“The recount room is locked up tighter than an Iowa trailer park in tornado season.”
“I may not know the frequency, Kenneth, but I can count to 270, and we ain’t there yet.”
“This one’s tighter than Rush Limbaugh’s bike shorts.”
fuck yeah christy.
And an essential part of this transparency is letters to the editor calling reporters like Judy Miller, John Solomon, Adnags, Fraud Hiatt, and Lovey Howell on their bullshit lying. And double for politicians. Like hotflash at 51 says “It’s not that they don’t know how [to report the truth], it’s that they won’t.”
It’s a constant struggle. I would say about 95% of my daily (yes, daily, that’s how mad I get sometimes) letters don’t get published. But 5% do.
And we know how radical neocons are rewarded for their nasty work. They become for example, president of the World Bank.
Fiyero @ 77
Thanks for link.
Redshift @ 67
Well, you have to read the chat. He was defending having Anna Nicole on all the time:
me @ 81:
Oops. I meant 35 gem Ratherisms.
j.cro @ 68
Since the attorneys serve at the pleasure of the president, firing them for political reasons is just wrong, not illegal. However, any federal official can be impeached by Congress:
“Whereas, Mr. Rove has admitted under oath to violating his sworn word with regard to handling of classified information,
Whereas, Mr. Rove has been implicated in undermining the justice system of the United States for partisan political purposes,
Whereas, Mr. Rove promotes the purely political interests of the Republican Party and the president at the expense of the interests of the People of the United States who employ him and pay his salary…”
I nominate Jane, Christy, Marcy, Pach, Jeralyn for the Pulitzer Prize for the blow by blow coverage at the LIbby trial.
Gosh, many rave remarks today on DailyKos for FDL.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 78
Which one? Barack “Joe Liberman is my mentor” Obama, or Hilary “Triangulate, Triangulate, Triangulate” Clinton?
It’s enough to make you stick your head in the oven.
cbl @ 26
I saw part of the Congressional hearings yesterday with both generals Kiley and Weightman and they had a decidedly surreal air about them. OTOH they acknowledged there was a problem but then went on to describe all the great things they had done, which sort of begs the question: if they were doing such great work to begin with, how did the problems at Walter Reed ever arise?
Kiley in particular was the epitome of the bureaucratic man. His justification for ignoring problems at Walter Reed was that he was now in a higher position and oversaw other hospitals (whose problems I suppose he could also ignore in addition to those at Walter Reed).
Much as I was disgusted by their refusal to take real responsibility for conditions at Walter Reed, I have to admit that in a lot of ways these were just bureaucrats left holding the bag. They were just executing their part in the Bush and Republican program of using and abusing America’s soldiers. Stop loss, extended deployments, insufficient training and equipment, faster turnarounds, more combat tours with no defined mission or strategy, lowered recruitment standards, sending troops with severe physical deficits back into a war zone, servicing them with private contractors out to make a fast buck, Bush, Cheney, and the Republicans are still doing all these things. If they have to throw over a few bureaucratic *sshats and clowns, like Kiley and Weightman, now and then, so be it.
bellesouth @ 85
Ah, it should have occurred to me that there was more context. My mistake; go get ‘im! *g*
Linda @ 87
Yes, indeed. And don’t forget Swopa…
biodin
it’s a scheduled event for sxsw which is going on right now
AZ Matt @ 42
I still say, are they going to be tasked with running our ports? I believe the ports are still in the hands of some entity in Dubai, aren’t they? All that fuss, and I doubt much was actually accomplished. What was that line about sound and fury signifying nothing? You think all that stink that was made didn’t prove to Halliburton that they might as well domicile in Dubai; there’s no real penalty to be experienced with it. As far as their tax obligations go, does anybody know if they actually were paying any taxes here? I remember reading years ago that our five largest steel corporations (that is, when we had a real steel industry) didn’t pay a dime in taxes because they took advantage of so many tax breaks and loopholes that by the time they got done, they owed nothing. Could be the same here.
Biodun @ 81
ROFLMAO!
AZ Matt @ 72
Probably stating the obvious here, but isn’t Rove the political wing of the White House?
So wouldn’t his “orders” to remove a sitting judge, then replacing that judge one of Rove’s sleaziest political operatives, constitute sheer proof of an underlying political motive for the WH to make these moves through the Justice Dept?
Or is Gonzales’ power to hire and fire absolute, can Congress have any authority in this beyond the purse, or enacting new legislation?
Seems to me there are already “conflict of interest” laws on the books that cover this quite exhaustively that do not provide ANY wriggle room for justifying these Rovish interventions from the political office of the WH, reaching out and influencing the legal justice system.
Are the laws already written, or will it take some new ones?
That may be the hardest part.
For those who haven’t already, check out Waxman’s letter to Rice. Sweet!
10 more Ratherisms (Mod: I promise no more):
I am outraged with my party’s capitulation on foreign policy. And when it comes to the Middle East, most leaders of the Democratic party are not much better than watered-down neocons.
things come undone @ 44
But it made it so much easier to get second source confirmation that way. If one person says it, it might be a fluke, but if two said the same thing, well, it must be true. That was the beauty of the system!
JEP @ 96
Since the person in the Attorney General’s positon is supposed to be the top Law Enforcement official for the country and not Bush’s personal lawyer, it does seems the AG doesn’t understand his job very well.
1. Representative Murtha will soon be zooming in on the injured troops being sent back to the war zone. What a thumb-your-nose at him by the powers that when his plan was to have the troops in top-notch shape if they had to return and fight Bush’s dirty war!
2. I watched General Kiley at the hearing on Walter Reed and he kept blaming the bureaucrats and the system. No one on the panel informed him he is (was) one of the bureaucrats and part of the system. This man must have taught Bush’s Candi how to not answer questions. He did say he was against the BRAC closure of Walter Reed; that it will cost mucho money to get the Bethesda facility up to speed. I wonder if it’s true he opposed the closing and, more importantly, who is making money on the move to Bethesda.
OfT:
Eighth paper drops La Coultresse. Insight (my bold) into the economics of her syndication:
I wonder if other papers also pay $5 per column. With 100 syndicatees, this means each of Ann’s columns generates $500; now $460. Does anyone know the syndication business? Perhaps each paper is charged based on its circulation reach?
Jane Hamsher @ 23
I always wondered if CBS reesearched the source of the forged Bush National Guard documents, which found their way to CBS just prior to the election, and on which the network based a series of reports.
Those who lost their jobs, including executive producers and network anchors, ought to know whether they were setup. The network has the financial resources and the business need to reclaim its integrity.
Has the origination of these docuemnts been resolved? Someone is accountable, no? If CBS doesn;t want to know who, then why not the FBI or FEC? This isssue goes to whether our national elections can be manipulated without consequence.
I feel the same way about the anthrax letters sent to Leahy and the speaker of the house. How is it that we do not have answers?
As the members of Beta house said in the movie Animal House, “Bull****, Bull****”
Demand answers.
Thanks Redshift…
So if the committees get him to testify, under oath, that he was involved in having them dismissed, they can move to have ROVE fired/impeached? How can someone who didn’t have to pass muster with Congress be impeached? Rove’s position in the WH isn’t like Condi’s, where there was a vote.
Sorry for my confusion/ingorance… I just want to make sure I’m understanding all this correctly.
And this Ratherism on the Darth’s political junket (Mod: Apologies):
I lost a comment in mod or EPU-ville, but it was something like this:
Does anyone think Chris Matthews will touch upon the newest Waxman letter to Rice today, seeing as how he’s always insisting so righteously about getting to the bottom of the communication between intel agencies and the WH on the uranium claims, while acting as though there were still this black hole of hard evidence? The Waxman letter (PDF)contains a documentable timeline of contradictions so glaring that to not call them outright lies would be… well, what Tony Snow’s job is.
I always like Digby, but I disagree with a lot of take on the reporter’s privilege and I think the piece, and a lot that has been written, conflates current disgust at MSM for not being sceptical, fact checking, connecting the dots, being unpartisan, and doing their job – with the reporting privilege.
It’s not rocket science, but IMO this is naive:
A reporter’s privilege should not be used to help powerful people in government lie to the public about what it’s doing or punish its enemies for speaking out against it. It exists to protect people who are risking their livelihoods by speaking out against those same powerful people.
That’s like saying due process protections are not there to let criminals walk free, so when they do – we should just forget them.
Everyone who is a source comes with an agenda. “Whistleblowers” often have just as much their own agenda as others. And people misrepresent and pushback and even unintentionally skew information just by participating in giving it.
So – how do you propose to keep a reporting privilege for “unpowerful” people in the government who are not “lieing to the public” but who are going to be lieing to FBI agents about whether they violated laws and leaked classified information; but not keep it for “powerful” people in the government who are “lieing to the public”?
Privilege wasn’t circumvented in the Libby case bc he lied to the public – it was bc he lied to an FBI agent. Does anyone think that Dana Priest’s sources on black hole torture sites wouldn’t also be very likely to lie to FBI agents investigating that leak?
Privilege was also not circumvented in Libby bc Libby was found to have violated IIPA or the Espionage Act. It was solely bc he lied to the FBI and GJ. What whistleblower source who makes privileged or classified information on government acions available isn’t going to do the same? And look at the legal disputes on what constitutes “illegal” govt action from just deplorable covert govt action or actions with which a whistleblower may strongly disagree and think dangerous, but not necessarily illegal. For that matter, have the courts resolved which things done by the President are illegal?
It takes a lot more to do it justice, but while it is not rocket science, I disagree that this is some simplistic ez issue. And the more detestable the journalists (just like the more disgusting the alleged criminals) the harder it is to stand up for their privilege, but the way I have seen it, and still do, it isn’t “their” privilege, it is ours. Our right to be informed. To the extent we entrust that right to media schills, it will never see its highest and best use, but if that means we are willing to give it up, in parts and pieces, it really isn’t that different from saying, for example, that there should not be fourth amendment, or due process, or other rights extended to “powerful people” who are bad at their core.
I’m not completely comfortable with what the LIbby case did to and with reporters. It would have been a much easier thing if someone was being charged for IIPA, bc then it would have been clear that the info being planted with the reporters was clearly a criminal act in and of itself. But in Libby’s case, in the end, reporters were there merely to make a criminal case that their source lied to the FBI and/or grand jury.
It’s not my favorite thing to see, particularly with so many powerful stories of the crimes this government has committed being based on leaks of classified information. If the leaker lies and says they were not involved when the FBI investigates – are you willing to see Dana Priest go to jail like Judy Miller, bc she has knowledge of whether her source is lieing to the FBI about not being involved in classified info leaks?
I know that’s not the popular take and it would be really long to do it justice, and I love digby, but sometimes love doesn’t mean agree.
“Neocons”. A polite term for Fascists?
Hugh,
as always, your input is appreciated -
in my perusal over at Army Times (their Ms. Kennedy was on this story long before Priest & Hull), even they are flummoxed as to how Kiley was allowed to remain and then retire
and I take your point as to their being bureaucratic cogs, but Sec Def Gates has 100% cover under this scandal to lop off any head he wants – and it’s not like this guy’s replacement wasn’t already teed up – oh my kingdom for a lexis-nexis . . .
We are letting the DLC and the movers and shakers in my party ram Hillary down our throat.
Per Froomkin in relation to what CHS wrote up top…
Colin McEnroe writes in his Hartford Courant opinion column that he was not impressed with the information that came out about Tim Russert in the Libby trial.
“[H]here and there, you read comments about the prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald and how much he damaged the First Amendment by sweating a bunch of journalists. Please. It’s more like he lanced some kind of infectious boil.”
http://www.courant.com/news/lo…..703.column
Has Rove ever testified on the Hill?
Re: Anne Coulter:
She might not be going away anytime soon. Not with this kind of apologist:
My bold. Really?
looseheadprop @ 71
I was listening to a recording of Randi Rhodes interview John Dean and Randi brought it up. I hadn’t seen it posted here yet.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 30
Christy, if at all possible, someone should bring Press credentials (maybe the same ones used at Prettyman). There’s usually reserved seats AND a table to write at for the press. And Henry seems to frown on photogs sitting on the floor between him and the witness.
HotFlash @ 66
Sounds like high crimes or misdemeanors to me, too.
For EW from the Black thread:
Of course, there’d be no wifi, I’d have to go and sit in the court room and write things down on a piece of paper!
I’m pretty sure I heard they were expecting over 300 journalists from over a dozen countries – I wouldn’t rule out wifi (
Topanga-lib @ 37
sorry if this has been covered, but it sounds like Henry is going to have a hearing every Friday (he gave Condi until 3/23 to respond on the 16 words).
breaks over. back to work now.
David E. Sanger’s op-ed, referenced by Christy as a call for “transparency,” is itself an example of selective transparency. I’ve looked forward to reading his articles ever since he was part of the NYT team which uncovered the flawed decisions involvd in the launch of the shuttle Challenger, back in early 1986. Sanger’s coverage of the rise and fall of Japanese pre-eminence in the Asian economy would have led to a Pulitzer Prize-winning book, had he written it. His reporting on that subject was the best out there.
But he’s a board member of the Aspen Institute’s Strategy Group, along with Judith Miller, Paul Wolfewitz, Dick Cheney, Richard Armitage, Philip Zelikow and other prominent neo-cons.
In his article cited by Christy, he states “that American allies in the Middle East are toying with going nuclear. Officials remain tight-lipped.” Uh, duh, Mr. Sanger! One of our so-called allies in the Middle East, one which has attacked or invaded its contiguous naighbors dozens of times, causing hundreds of billions of dollars of damage to their economies and infrastructures, killing tens of thousands of women and children along the way, has over 400 of the frigging things.
The transparency schtick as presented in this essay is fainthearted. This is a week, when as we’re discovering a lack of billions to heal our troops, the top Democrats in congress are crawling all over each other in thir promises to pour billions into the anti-peace machinery of a far-right government so dysfunctional its nation’s headlines are even more full than our own with egregious examples of misconduct at EVERY level of governance.
The last thing we need
The new US command for Africa will militarise the continent and inflame a string of regional conflicts
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comm…..70,00.html
Redshift @ 67
Boy, Redshift, you’d take all the fun out of being a protagonist.
But aren’t these the very same reporters who didn’t think Colbert was funny at the Correspondent’s Dinner?
http://video.google.com/videop…..7758574879
I watch it time and time again.
Christy – If you are still hanging around here, I have a question regarding a post you did a couple of days ago. I tried sending you an email, but I am sure you must have thousands, i paraphrased my email in a question and discussion that LHP and I engaged in briefly Saturday. At any rate here is the trimmed down question I initially asked LHP:
Hey LHP, Nice post and if you are hanging around, I have a question. This concerns Christy’s post yesterday discussing Sid Blumenthal’s recent article. As I didn’t read Christy’s post until much later, I sent her an email and I am very interested in your thought as well.
Specifically, my question is in relation to CHS and Sid Blumenthal’s postulating on the possibility that Cheney and Libby may really have been going to testify, but that changed in trial due to the defense becoming aware of Rove as a rebuttal witness. I am intrigued by this theory. I will admit upfront that I never thought that Cheney would testify (unless Fitz subpoened him, and we knew he did not) and thought chances were slim that Libby would take the stand either. Based upon what CHS wrote, and Blumenthal, I am wondering if maybe my bases for my conclusion were full of bologna. In order to figure out whether I was full of it, or if this new hypothesis has to many holes, I have to ask if it is based upon Jencks considerations. It appears that this new theory contemplates that the defense came into the possession of some knowledge during the trial that made them suddenly aware that they could not put on Scooter or Shooter due to impeachment by Rove. But I cannot think of any reason that this would occur other than a Jencks disclosure and I was not aware that any such disclosure was made during the trial; furthermore, with neither Libby, Cheney, nor Rove having testified, there was no reason for such a disclosure in relation to potential Rove testimony. At any rate, is this the basis for this theory, or am I missing something here. For the time being, I am sticking with the position that Libby and Cheney were never going to testify and any inference that they were was a ruse to use as an advantage in voir dire and in pre-trial greymail defense efforts, but I am certainly open for re-education. Thanks for any input.
does playing Hide The Subpoena w/ Jimmy Jeff count ?
Looks like the Rethugs on the oversight committee will try to call Victoria Toesning to ‘balance’ out Victoria Wilson.
Someone needs to fax Henry Waxman’s staff the debunking of Toesning WP editorial.
AZ Matt @ 72
Kinda’ makes you wonder what possible sway a Republican Party chairman would/should have over a Justice Dept. representative! But the good news is that Rove will have to answer to Congress. This I want to see!
CDS:
Thank you for yet another brilliant post on a very important matter since those that control the message/information hold massive power over everyone else. One of the most terrifying things for me to watch over the past quarter century and especially once the Fairness Doctrine was eliminated was the transformation of the American free press from mainly/mostly afflicting the powerful and comforting the afflicted to being the tools and mouthpieces of power to further advance the control of the powerful over the afflicted. I find this absolutely horrifying and something totally antithetical to the America I grew up respecting and admiring overall despite the occasional issue I would have with the American government on policy or even from being honked off by American tourists who made the stereotype seem too conservative a portrayal of the American tourist* (see bottom of post for example of what I mean).
I am glad to finally be seeing the beginning signs of this travesty being ripped away despite the best efforts of the GOP and their media lackeys to prevent such from becoming public knowledge. In that respect the Libby trial performed a major valuable service by taking what was long suspected to be the case with how Bushco handled the media and that there were those in the media that were more than willing to be their conduits and changing it from speculation to established fact. Indeed, I think I made a comment during the closing arguments by the defence of how inherently contradictory it was to claim Russert was hostile to the Veep and therefore could not be trusted to not have an agenda when the Veep’s press secretary testified that Russert’s MtP as the most reliable place to control their message of the various TV talk shows (not to mention being comfortable enough with Russert to call him up to complain about another NBC employee, Chris Matthews as Scooter Libby did), and more that they were willing to use Russert to attack Chris Matthews whom they felt was causing them problems by actually doing his job properly and asking hard questions of the Bush Administration and especially Cheney’s role in the intelligence debacle. How can someone be both the most friendly media conduit for the Veep to control the message yet simultaneously be someone out to get the Veep?!? Something I find not at all surprising (offensive, upsetting, disgusting, yes, surprising alas no) to see is not being laid at Russert’s feet to answer for by almost anyone in his profession, especially within the Washington Press Corps. Which when you consider how major a player/figure he is and how serious a question as to his right to that reputation is because of this evidence underscores just how much in the bag for the GOP spinmeisters most of the American MSM still is to this day.
An additional reason I am glad to see this post and this increased focus on the way the movement conservatives have tamed the media to be their lapdogs through restricting access, punishing those that dare be critical/questioning of the government’s spin, and feel comfortable smearing opponents via the media since they know the accusations will get the front page headline while the subsequent apology/correction refuting the story/headline will be buried in the back pages (when they are done at all) is because our PM is importing the same media tools. It is something I have been keeping an eye on because of the similarities to the way movement conservativism and the GOP have perverted the role of the American press, especially the national/Washington press into essentially stenographers for them instead of actually doing the job they are supposed to which is always be suspicious of those with power and always be questioning of those in power regardless of what their political affiliations are. Harper is trying to replicate the way Bushco manipulated the WHPC into his servants instead of adversaries using the same tools of access restriction, increased security classifications, claiming the fear of terrorism requires such, basically the same overall pattern. So the more it is exposed for what it is in America the easier it becomes to expose exactly what Harper is trying to replicate in Canada and why that is something not just inherently dangerous but corrosive to the idea of having informed citizens making informed choices when they cast their ballots/votes.
So again thank you for this post, it is as usual exceptionally high in content/fact and well structured/reasoned, but then that is what I have come to expect from you given your record to date. I will add one last thing, more than anything else it is the reduction of the importance of context which I see as being one of the major roots of the problem. When you strip away context you inherently alter/affect/change meaning making it come out as whatever you want it to mean instead of how the original speaker/writer actually meant it absurdly easy indeed as we have all seen repeatedly over the last several years. The problem with context is that it is not sexy, takes some time to provide, and in this age of 10 second sound bytes all but impossible for politicians to provide in their answers anymore. It is the bumpersticker approach to politics and while it makes for great sloganeering it provides next to nothing in terms of actual details/specifics about whatever is being discussed/considered, and that is not a healthy sign of a real open democracy, it is the sign of a closed restrictive society or at least an open one in transition to becoming a closed one. Which alas has been America over the past decade, especially the last six years IMHO.
*True story, I live in Halifax Nova Scotia. Several years ago I was downtown in one of our older buildings. This couple asks me if I know where a particular restaurant is. I, being the nice helpful friendly person that I am give them the needed directions. The husband thanks me and the wife looks at me and says: “Isn’t American such a wonderful place?” I looked at here perplexed as this seemed to come out of nowhere and asked her what she meant by that. Her response was “Well where else would you find such a wonderful city and people but in America after all?” The husband nods in agreement while my jaw is literally dropping wide open. I looked back and said” Excuse me Ma’am but this is Canada not America.” She looked at me and asked me how I could be so sure of that. I said that leaving aside for a moment the fact I was born and raised here and my passport is a Canadian one how about the fact that we use differently coloured paper money than America, ours looks like monopoly money compared tot he “greenback”? She still didn’t want to believe me, the husband at least looked sheepish and I still made sure they got to their restaurant. Now, I will add that these kinds of stupid American tourists have been the minority in my experience; it was more the complete lack of recognition they were in another country that really caused me to remember this couple well over a decade later. I was never sure how much of it was rooted in the ignorant belief that Canada is essentially American property in all but name and how much of it was the ignorant belief that we are constantly frozen wasteland even in summer, either way though ignorance was at its root. This incident was in the middle of summer in 30 C temperatures before the humidex was factored in. At least I don’t see what used to be a common sight in the summer when I was a kid, seeing cars with American liscence plates with skis and snowshoes on their racks in the middle of summer. That was just too weird, and i will add I am talking about things I saw with my oewn eyes and not stories I heard from others. As I said earlier though these are the minority of Americans I have met outside of America, the majority were well informed respectful decent folks and I by no means take the minority’s example as a measure of the overal majority, I am not a conservative after all. (snark)
j.cro @ 105
Well, in all honesty, most of my knowledge of the subject comes from Wikipedia, so you can know just as much as I do. :-)
However, the Constitution certainly doesn’t restrict it to officials who are confirmed by the Senate.
oh please, I double dog dare that cur to utter her no underlying crime crap in front of Waxman – oh yeah, bring that ! -
Redshift @ 129
Thanks again. I’ll do some more clicking around the internets and the google.
Waccamaw @ 73
Guilty of a crime? Yeah, that’d be nice. But I’m just glad someone is finally standing up to challenge his authority. I get the feeling his authority has never been challenged and he won’t like it a bit. Bet it’ll piss him off royally!
Mary4 #108,
With regard to privilege, there are no absolutes but there are guidelines:
To protect the less powerful against the powerful
To further the public’s right to know against the government’s or government officials’ desire to conceal
Each case has to be weighed and balanced on its own merits. Even so, it is clear that the actions of the reporters involved in the Libby investigation did not meet these criteria, just as the story about black prisons, profoundly contrary to our whole history of human rights and rule of law, does (which may or may not stand up in a court but certainly should).
Accountibiltiy in this administration is lacking all over the place. The Cobell Lawsuit against the Secretary of Interior has sought to make the government pay for their mis-management of Indian Trust funds for the last 100 years. Kempthorne and Gonzales sent a lettter to Sen. Durgan, head of the Senate Indan Affairs committee, that the tribes find insulting.
Indianz.com in part of their editorial on March 9th wrote the following: The March 1 letter from Interior Secretary Dirk Kempthorne and U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales is not only a bad proposal, it’s an insult. The two Cabinet members have the gall to say the administration “is willing to invest up to $7 billion” in Indian Country.
Excuse us, but it’s not your money to “invest.” It’s money that belongs to Indian people and is owed to them for the federal government’s failure to do the job properly. http://indianz.com/News/2007/001779.asp
Eliose Cobell, the lead plaintiff in the Cobell vs. Kempthorne lawsuit said in part of her statement in response to Kempthorne and Gonzales:
Without ever dealing with the core issue in this 10-year old case, Kempthorne and Gonzales outline a hodge-podge of provisions, policies and programs, which have nothing to do with the Cobell case. Among other things, the non-Cobell laundry list includes eliminating the government’s liability as Trustee (past, present and future), barring all asset mismanagement claims, consolidating fractionated land interests, settling all Tribal trust claims and terminating the individual Indian Trust. All this would be settled with the $7 billion.
The Kempthorne-Gonzales letter is a license to steal from Indian people. And, while the Interior Department has a long and notorious history of cheating, swindling and robbing from Indian people, I in all my years have never heard of such a brazen attempt to rob us of our livelihood. In America, every other citizen can sue the government if it unlawfully takes their land or steals their money, but not Indian people if Kempthorne or Gonzales has their way. This is a new low, even for this Administration.
Here is the Kempthorne letter to Sen. Dorgan:
http://indianz.com/docs/cobell/bush030107.pdf
Take from the Poor and give to the Rich.
annx @ 126
Oooh, I can’t wait for Waxman to ask her to explain exactly what kinds of perjury shouldn’t really be crimes. Her house of cards won’t hold up very well to questioning under oath.
j.cro @
68
Sorry to be so late, but I’m way behind today. The short answer seems to be (and I am no expert in this area) that under 28 USC 541(c) the prez can fire any US Attny any time he wants. So if Rover got the prez to OK it, it’s probably legal. As to whether it is politically viable is another question. It also makes Abu Gonzo a perjurer.
bmaz at 123 — Well, it was Sidney’s theory and I lean more toward the fact that they knew something all along of what Rove would or would not have held, and thus planned accordingly. But I don’t think we’ll ever know for certain on this unless, of course, the Libbys need some money and Mrs. Scooter writes a tell-all. And wouldn’t that be fun. *g* But as for Jencks material, there was some discussion on a couple of different days on that issue, including a fairly spirited debate on the record at one point between Wells and Fitz, but never any order to turn additional materials over (that I know of anyway).
j.cro @ 105
Somebody over the weekend had a link to a John Dean article wherein he opines that impeachment is certainly available for all cabinate officers and possibly high ranking WH staff.
I think it is an open question
This is interesting: From the BBC profile of the US federal government, on its website:
The Beeb (or Auntie) is being polite. Surely it must be aware that the Darth has seized power from the dunce.
annx @ 126
First question: Well, Ms. Toensing, since you approve of lying to the FBI and the Grand Jury, how do we know that doesn’t apply to us as well?
annx at 126 — HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Oh man. I needed that laugh today. Oooooooh — Victoria Toensing. Scary. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
*snerk*
Redshift @ 87
Oooh! I like it! I asked yesterday if he could be impeached since his appointment was not subject to Senate confirmation, and I thought I got a “No” for an answer. Boy, would I love to see him impeached for his obvious violation of the SF-312! Yahoo, as they say!
The journalistic community needs to call out Tim Russert and his phony brand of journalism.
An esteemed professor of journalism at a leading school needs to correct and upbraid the fakery. Maybe 2 or 3 esteemed professors.
Where is the Society of Professional Journalists? What is their opinion of “everything’s off the record until you say it’s not?”
This guy is NBC’s Washington Bureau Chief, for gawds sake…and he’s not even practicing journalism. He’s a shill for whoever’s got the best cocktail weenies.
Christy Hardin Smith @
30
These hearings will be televised, won’t they? What made the Plame coverage so invaluable was that there was no other way to know what was happening in real time. And, can I just say, also because it made it harder for the media to define the narrative.
In this case, what I’d hope for is something much quieter–behind the scenes help in laying the story out for the committee staffers. It’s not, I don’t think, in our interest to have a prominent presence in these hearings. The plucky bloggers bringing the case into the public eye story doesn’t play as well when everybody can Tivo the hearings.
There is a lot of story here. it takes a while to figure it out, as the jurors discovered. Helping the committee staff prepare questions and determine areas of investigation would be more valuable, imo. But if that is done coupled with a prominent presence, it might taint the perception of the committee.
petedownunder @ 136
He can fire them for any reason so long as he does so in good faith. It is not absolute
Redshift @ 135
Did Waxman invite Vicky? Why?
Christy, keep shining that flashlight. Until the guilty journalists know, really know they will be continuosly exposed for propaganda or shoddy journalism they will not have incentive to change. By the way, Josh Marshall has a post indicating that Senator Kyl will block revision of the USA Patriot Act. The slight of hand continues. The justice Department agrees to revisions but, whoops, here comes the White House rubberstampers again. Do they really love Kyl so much in Arizona?
Novak and his truthiness. Gotta love Booby.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c…..hes_ph.php
looseheadprop @ 145
Well, if it’s up to Bush, then Rove will never go. That’s been obvious up to this point. But if he can be impeached… that’s a whole other story. And to quote Ann in AZ – YAHOO.
lhp–
from politico.com
OT–
Somehow US MSM missed this one last week. From the BBC:
CHS@137 – Thanks, much appreciated. That conforms exactly to my understanding and thoughts as well. I think the Wells-Fitz discussion you cite was was far into the trial and occurred in the process of Wells trying to desperately try to clean himself up after Walton busted him for duplcity in misleading the court regarding Scooter testifying and the Jencks material he was referring to were disclosed in mid-December 2006. It is nice to have my original analysis reaffirmed; however, it returns the question of how Wells turned in such a poor defense performance to the front burner. Thanks again.
You know, if the GOP wants to call Toensing, what say Waxman sends a note to James Comey and asks him to come along and opine as well. *g* Let’s just put all the cards out on the table at once, shall we, and see who is the political hack job and who has integrity.
CNN and/or MSNBC will be televising some of Waxman’s Plamegate hearings. They’ll be going in and out, as necessary.
will the good senator be making a colloquy on the Senate Floor ????
Trouble is, today’s Democratic party is but a shell of what it was during the time of the Watergate Hearings.
Important to remember that, all along, there were some reporters–particularly the Washington reporting unit of Knight-Ridder (now McClatchy) and, particularly, Jonathan Landay, who were suitably skeptical about the administration’s pre-war claims, who did write stories exploring the obvious inconsistencies in logic and fact–and whose stories were ignored by the rest of the media.
Sure, there’s an aspect of “not invented here” in that, but if there’s an editorial determination to “support” the President (i.e., make him appear larger than life to the public and smarter than he could ever possibly be) and charge ahead balls-to-the-wall for war, that’s nothing more than yellow journalism in the classic Hearst tradition.
When the NYT and WaPo realize that’s exactly what they did, maybe they’ll enforce the basics in reporting and throw the Fred Hiatts and Michael Gordons out on their asses. If the country is going over the falls, those two papers, in particular, have been paddling in the wrong direction.
Biodun @
47
Newspaper industry complains about falling revenues, movie industry ditto, music industry, too. BTW, a recent Zogby poll says people say they are going to fewer movies because they don’t like ‘the experience’ or feel they are not receiving value for money.
But then there is YouTube and FDL — maybe we are seeing an end of monolithic industries? Or at least the last days of a few dinosaurs?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 109
Fully half the Republican party deserve the term fascist. Neocons are the SS.
montag @ 157
Marcy told an interesting story Saturday night, one which I am sure she posted but I don’t remember reading. As witnesses were talking about Libby’s terribly busy schedule, it came up that one event involved a meeting with Tom Cruise to discuss Scientology’s status in Germany.
You’d expect this would be front page news. And it’s news that is bad for Libby’s case–it weakens the argument over his tremendously overcommitted schedule and terribly important trio of national security jobs.
Apparently six of the reporters wanted to write that story, but their editors wouldn’t run it.
OT–but related, so to speak. From AP:
Boudica@147 – Well, this may not be a shock, but most of the people I know here in Arizona think Kyl is an aromatic piece of dung; however we have not yet completed the cleansing of our state. Removing JD Hayworth was a healthy step in the right direction; Kyl is losing popularity, but he’s still hanging in. Always work left to be done….
Brief story from ThinkProgress:
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/…..gislation/
More details here:
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/002731.php
I put this in a comment a while ago but it might be useful resurrecting it here.
Re impeachment of civil officers,
Article II, Section 4.
A civil officer applies to any employee of the federal government, including judges, excluding those in the military and legislators. From The Constitution of the United States of America, Analysis and Interpretation 2002 edition, the annotated text put out by our government:
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/const…..02/012.pdf (p.608)
JEP @ 96
It would be ridiculous if Congress had no authority beyond the purse, yet an individual Congress person would hold sway over who the US Attorney is in the region. Actually, my understanding is that the AG has no power to hire or fire; that is the province of the President. Maybe I’m wrong?
What I find most alarming is that years ago, in the Kennedy Administration, there was a big stink about Kennedy appointing his brother AG. Said he was too close to the Pres, and the fear was that the AG’s office would be used for political purposes. He got confirmed anyway; there was no law against it, and he was qualified. As we now know, he seems to have done a heck of a job, especially in regard to civil rights. Then, in the Nixon Admin., the AG and his deputy resigned rather than acceed to the President and fire Archibald Cox. It was considered a highly principled move. There really is no excuse for what’s going on now. It may not be illegal, but it is likely unethical and certainly immoral. Don’t you agree?
AZ Matt @
33
I have a hard time understanding why Ron Paul calls himself a Republican, he certainly isn’t a modern day Bush cabal style Republican. I’ve read some speechs that he has made in the House against the Bush War, not just the details or the strategy. Check him out, he’s about the only Republican I can think of with any right to actually be president. He is actually an American, not a Bushevik. He is kinda like in real life what Straight Talk McCain pretends to be.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 156
Ypu. And that took a lot of work.
Hugh @ 164
WOW!!! Thanks for that! Great stuff.
montag @ 157
Fred Hiatt does not strike me as someone who is afraid that his superiors disagree with what he is saying.
I heart Froomkin… today’s gem:
link
Darth this morning:
Darth: Your vice-presidency has not been a proud episode in American history. And he speaks of twisted logic.
hotfalsh at 169: “Fred Hiatt does not strike me as someone who is afraid that his superiors disagree with what he is saying.”
Fred Hiatt has been described elsewhere as Donald Graham’s ventriloquist dummy. Same with Len Downie.
Exile -
that is a wonderful point to make
but we are probably in for “eccentric”, “contrarian”,”idiosynchratic”, “quirky” and even a “screwball” here and there
Neil @ 170
That’s actually from Krugman’s piece in the NY Times today. But it’s still fantastic.
I think Ron Paul recently introduced some legislation having to do with legalizing industrial hemp (don’t have time to look for link…). I keep seeing his name pop up in articles where he sounds more liberal than many DLC Democrats. He’s a welcome addition to the race. An Repug that’s actually reasonable.
jayackroyd @ 160
Yeah, it was prominent in the live blogging. From the CIA briefer’s notes, it was obvious that a visit from Tom and Penelope Cruise was a big, big deal, and it was a real window into not only how busy Scooter actually was, but also on what he considered priorities….
At the time, I wondered why these people were behaving like bobbie-soxers waiting for Elvis to come to town.
theExile @ 166
Ron Paul is a died-in-the-wool Libertarian. They normally ally with the Repubs who ostensibly are in favor of as small a government, as few laws (esp those regulating business) and as low taxes as possible. True Libertarians want no taxes at all and no government services, either. They are also strict isolationists, opposed to getting into foreign wars in all cases.
Regarding Ron Paul: I also suspect that he may actually be a Texan rather than a play Texan like Bush the Lesser!
OT, though it is about the media. Did anybody catch Andy Rooney on 60 minutes last night? It’s not so much that I disagree with what he said, but I’m surprised that the Wurlitzer hasn’t launched an attack on him, or maybe they will.
Anyway he basically called the current Army a bunch of losers. This is referring to the fact that it is composed of “volunteers” who really had no other or better options and were welcomed by an Army that has been lowering its standards almost daily since the illegal invasion of Iraq to overcome recruiting difficulties. He specifically referred to the moral waivers for criminals that are handed out much more than ever and talked of whether those were the kind of people we wanted representing America overseas.
He, himself was drafted out of college during WWII and thinks that the citizen, cross-section of society, army that resulted was better than the pre-war volunteer army they replaced. The main point was he was calling for a draft. I differ with him there, I just think the US doesn’t have to be in a constant state of war in the interest of Halliburton.
brendan @ 172
Yup. No one he works for will fire him.
The right-wing mind cannot comprehend the fact that the reporters’ privilege exists, not to protect the powerful from scrutiny, but to subject them to scrutiny by protecting whistleblowers from retribution.
bmaz @162, Good to know that Kyl’s support is waning. I just hope those in Arizona who oppose Kyl’s obstructionist behavior let him know it and do it now!
new thread upstairs…
j.cro @ 174 “That’s actually from Krugman’s piece in the NY Times today. But it’s still fantastic.”
Thanks j, you’re right.
theExile @
179
i’m with andy on the draft. we need it back. people would have paid attention to iraq a lot sooner if we had. it’s possible that congress would’ve too.
part of the problem about the war in Iraq is that too few Americans were having to sacrifice for it to happen.
war is always a problem. if we have one, it needs to be apparent to everybody that it is a problem.
Mary4 at #108, I must admit I gotta agree with you, because you make so many really good points. It does, however, bring up a question. That is, I thought there were some Whistleblower laws. How do they know when they apply and when they don’t? Wasn’t Linda whathername more or less covered by some whistleblower laws in the Monica Lewinsky situation, and didn’t government find their way to circumvent those laws in handling her future employment anyway? Feel free to expound on that issue, please.
HotFlash @ 178
The true libertarian sits in his house (built according to codes so that it won’t fall down around him or burn down on him) at his computer (powered by electricity that may come only to his house because a governmental agency said it had to) connected to the Net (which would not have come about without government funding), having just taken a cr*p and flushed a toilet with clean water (thanks to government regulation) into a sewer system (that also thanks to government regulation won’t pollute and sicken himself and anyone else who lives near by) and wondering if he should jump into his car (that is less likely to blow up or fall apart on him again because of government regs) and drive down the road (that government levied taxes to build) so that he can eat at his favorite Chinese restaurant (with some likelihood he won’t be poisoned because of health regulations) so that eventually he can return home and rail against the evils of government!
If the Dems are unable to impeach and prosecute these outcast cripples then walking down the street to vote is just a waste of time.
fahrender @ 185
i’m with andy on the draft. we need it back. people would have paid attention to iraq a lot sooner if we had. it’s possible that congress would’ve too.
part of the problem about the war in Iraq is that too few Americans were having to sacrifice for it to happen.
war is always a problem. if we have one, it needs to be apparent to everybody that it is a problem.
Right about a draft, *and* federalization of the defense contractors, in a time of war. Then they won’t be able to pack it up and head to Dubai in the middle of it all… and wouldn’t push so hard for war in the first place.
Ann in AZ @
186
Linda Tripp actually got off very easy. If she’d done what she did to Bush — namely, egg a woman friend of hers into an affair with him just so she could secretly tape-record her phone calls with said friend — the arrest and conviction for shoplifting which she failed to tell the Feds about would have been more than enough justification to zap her and her pension.
By the way: I know friends in the Federal government who’ve processed the termination paperwork for people who lied about their arrest records — even for “minor” offenses like DUIs. It is one of the few things that the Feds can zap you for, and it is NOT appealable. By rights, Tripp should have been fired and her pension taken away the second it was discovered that she lied about her arrest record. Instead, she got to work at home and left the government with her pension intact.
the exile @ 166
way pro-lifer and other things under his cape……..
EPU but Christy @ 153, take a look at the state secrets affidavit Comey filed in the Arar case and compare the facts known by DOJ about Padilla at the time of his press conf with what he actually said about Padilla and Zubaydah before you rely too much on Comey’s integrity to be a beacon. If that’s our best shot at integrity, my heart breaks.
For EW, from a Canadian summarizing what their paper said a couple of days back on the Black trial, “There is no media ban: more than 300 journalists from US, Canada, Britain and France have registered at the court. So many reporters are expected that they are setting up a separate room with video feed.”
Ann @ 186 I don’t really know much about the Linda Tripp/Lewinsky situation (other than the violation of state wiretap laws that apparently were blown off, and even those mostly from other lawyers griping), but as for whistleblowers, the protections that we have suck. There is pretty much no real protection for anyone engaged in certain agencies, like CIA, bc of “national security interests” vis a vis classified information.
A lot depends on the integrity of the IG and more than that – on someone having clear cut authority to shut down or report without retribution illegal programs that are authorized at the highest (like Presidential) levels. But in any event, there are carveouts of the few protections we have for whistleblowers in the intel field.
If I can find a good link for you that explains the setting, I will try. I think that POGO (Project on Government Oversight)has some things on its site and maybe FAS or Crew also.
bmaz @ 162
Unfortunately, he just won another 6 year term. I know, because I worked for his opponent, Jim Pederson, who was a better candidate, but didn’t have the political name recognition and Kyl engaged in some dirty politics making Jim look like he perjured himself in a bankruptcy in his very early career, over 25 years ago. He didn’t commit perjury, but the doubt Kyl put in voters minds was enough. Not enough was said about Kyl’s dirty tactics while in the Senate. I was quite upset.
Mary4 at 192 — I wasn’t talking about his integrity overall, simply his actions on the Wilson invesigation in getting the ball rolling for an independent counsel and the need therefor. Ashcroft will not speak about it, neither will Tenet (he’d prefer to make money on his book deal instead, I hear), so Comey is the next rung down in the matter. I can’t vouch for him overall, I don’t know his whole record, but the rationale for getting Ashcroft’s hands off the case due to the creeping stench of Rove’s hands helping steer was nothing short of miraculous. I’ll let folks who actually know Comey chime in on him overall — but in this particular matter, his actions were spot on and necessary. And Toensing has lobbed unsuccessful stinkbombs without some detailed pushback from someone in the know for long enough for my taste. I say bring on Comey.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 163
Seems to me if Bush can fire them, he can rehire them. This might be the way to go. Pressure on the President!
What Digby said dovetails with something I’ve been saying since the whole ‘background’ business became a big issue a few years back.
A reporter should ask him/herself: if I were to reveal the name of this source – not to the public, but to the source’s boss, or his boss’s boss – would the boss be upset to find out that the source had said the things he did?
If the answer is ‘no’, then there’s almost certainly no reportorial justification for anonymity. You’re being used as a means of conveying the message, only without the speaker’s fingerprints on it. Anonymity should not be granted. If the source isn’t willing to go on the record, there should be no story.
Reporters should fight like wildcats to protect their sources when revealing their names might lead to retribution from above. But if the source has nothing to fear, then the reporter is protecting the powerful by hiding their names from the public.
And at that point, it’s all a nice cozy game. The SAO knows who he is, and the access journalists all know who the SAO is. The only party on the outside is the public at large, but who cares about them anymore?
A few edits on typos:
should read
Industrial Hemp Farming Act of 2007 , sponsored by Rep. Ron Paul.
I understand Christy and hope I didn’t sound snity. lhp thinks very highly of Comey. I think he and his friends at DOJ did much more to hurt this country than Karl Rove. Here’s his declaration the Arar case
http://www.fas.org/sgp/jud/arar-notice-011805.pdf
Bc Ashcroft was sued directly in Arar, he recused and Comey called the shots on the govt response on Arar. To say I don’t think it shows integrity would be a wild understatement. Since Arar was the rabbit, Comey pretty much set the course on state secrets to cover up torture.
As bad as Arar is, I think he vacationed even further from integrityland when it comes to Padilla. Then the effort to try to get Haynes out of committee and onto the Fourth Circuit. Add in giving a thumbs up to the FBI tactics in Higazy.
My take has always been that Comey’s first priority in the Plame investigation was to shut down an Indep Counsel appointment and he did a good job of that IMO. If you look back, even someone like Joe Lieberman was calling for an Independent Counsel appointment. IMO, the integrity race was won by the FBI investigators who dug in their heels early on and were less than thrilled about Ashcroft refusing to recuse and getting updates on Rove.
All fwiw – I just haven’t seen many things as egregious as what Comey pulled off with Padilla and he set the state secrets course with Arar’s case. So for full disclosure purposes – I am flat out not a fan. I’m sure it colors my opinions.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 193
I know this was not addressed to me, but I have to chime in my agreement. The fact that Comey was able to get Ashcroft to recuse and then assign Fitzgerald with the terms of mandate and authority he was given in this politicized a judicial structure truly was miraculous. I would indeed love to see him come in as a response to Toensing testifying, I have found listening to this woman to be one of the few experiences that makes listening to fingers down a blackboard preferable to me and I am hypersensitive as a mild autistic so that is a really high threshold. It is not her style it is trying to follow her so called logic and reasoning, especially since I actually have read the various original materials she is so shamefully twisting/revising when she tries to bury the truth of this issue, both Libby’s convictions and why he was obstructing justice and a criminal investigation into the outing of a NOC. She wants people to accept that because there was no underlying crime charged that it did not exits, yet when Fitzgerald indicted Libby on Obstruction it was because he had “thrown sand” in his eyes making it impossible for him to proceed further in charging for the original crime. IOW Libby’s convictions especially for obstruction of justice prove Fitzgerald’s stated reasoning for not laying further charges was because he was prevented by active resistance and not because there was no “there” there as Toensing and her cronies would have all believe.
I was reassured today to see a poll on CNN about how 69% oppose a Libby pardon, 19% supported the idea. At least if nothing else she and her cronies still have a lot of work to do to make this politically viable before the end of Bush’s term/after Nov 2008 elections. Now, the job is to make it even less viable so that there will be a lasting price to the GOP when Bush pardons Libby on the way out the door, that is unless he is prevented by impeachment proceedings launched as I understand that is the one circumstance he cannot use the power of pardons, and if the House can indict Bush’s support structure (Gonzales, Rove, Cheney, that level) first the chances that the House will not turn up enough additional evidence to go for Bush is in my expectation are low. I also think impeachment is a necessary act if America is to have any chance of clearing a significant amount of the stain it is wearing internationally even among (especially!) allies within this generation, and will go a long way to exposing and censuring this kind of dangerous approach to governing as was seen by Bush and abetted by the now dethroned GOP Congress.
I really think impeachment is viable so long as the evidence is there for it, as others in the past have noted the GOP wanted to impeach Clinton, the wider public was not so inclined as there was little anger outside of the partisans over Clinton’s actions if anything it was more indifference/mild sorrow which is why his numbers went up in response to a clearly solely partisanly motivated (as opposed to substantively) based impeachment action. In this case though there is more than sufficient basis for substantial based impeachment proceedings and there is clearly a mood of worn patience in the public where Bush and the GOP federally are concerned. Provided the evidence of systemic incompetence and/or intentional gutting of the responsibilities of his Office (starting wars, taking care of returned vets, New Orleans/Katrina, spying on Americans without warrants, arrest and detention without habeas (sp) corpus, the Libby convictions and the Plame betrayal, politizing the judiciary, the hiding of the true extent of what went on at Abu Ghraib still to this day by the Administration) there is more than enough that there has to be paper trails and some weak links that when realizing pardons cannot come if convicted from Bush should not only provide the proof but establish such a political dynamic in the country that any GOP Senator up for re-election in 2008 that does not convict may well not have a chance to win reelection.
I know I have no direct say in this given my nationality, but I want the America I used to respect back as my neighbour. What Bushco and the GOP have done to America over the past decade is disheartening indeed, and the spillover effect it is having into our own nation’s politics despite all our efforts to resist (as shown by it taking Harper this long to gain any power and he still hasn’t managed to dazzle the voters enough to gain his majority yet, but he is certainly trying and using the Bush/GOP playbook of smear, vote buying, wedge issue politics and total war approach to defeating any opponent/enemy) is not pleasant. If this cancer can be cut out by impeachment it should go a long way to actively discrediting the worst of movement conservativism’s hold within our politics and I really would love to see that. So I am self interested, but primarily I want the occasionally overbearing yet trustworthy in a pinch neighbour I grew up knowing that valued free thinking/speech above all else and the right to believe as one felt or not to believe at all so long as it was not directly/actively harming others back. What your government has become scares me beyond belief, and there is no way you could pay me enough to be willing to cross your border while Bush is still in office and even after he leaves I would need to take a long hard think about it depending of the actions/inactions of the following Administration. I never thought I’d feel that way until the last decade and especially in the post 9/11/01 world, although even before that day during Bush’s first months I was growing increasingly uncomfortable about what I was seeing well beyond simply differences of political preferences but more fundamental in terms of how it was going against the basic matrix of the Constitution. When a government betrays/ignores the basic social framework that their nation is based upon that sends warning signals to me that something very dangerous/ugly is going on beneath the surface. Boy was that ever the case this time out with GWB, personally I am impressed my nation has managed to resist as much of the insanity that has infected your political process for as long as we have. If you can impeach him and more importantly his policies and methods of operation before he leaves office that will go a loooooong way towards helping to disempower the infrastructure around him causing them to consolidate and withdraw out of Canada to a great extent if not completely, and the sooner we get rid of Dobson and company and the politicos they affiliate with the happier I will be. Not to mention the general disfavour that will come from said dicrediting overall.
A reporter’s privilege should not be used to help powerful people in government lie to the public about what it’s doing or punish its enemies for speaking out against it. It exists to protect people who are risking their livelihoods by speaking out against those same powerful people. This is not hard for rational people to understand and yet in Washington they are so confused by their relationships with the powerful that they seem to be speaking in tongues on this issue.
I wish it was a matter of simple confusion, but it’s far worse than that. Think: bully, emotionally-abusive tactics, impaired consciences and covert-aggressive behavior.
All Americans need to pay close attention to the manipulation tactics that Republicans employ.
Manipulation is a form of emotional abuse. Republicans are emotionally abusing American citizens every time they engage in their covert aggression. The tactics of deceit, manipulation and control are a steady diet for a covert-aggressive personality. In my view, manipulators tend to be effective in the short term but fail in the long term once people get wise to what’s going on.
Traits of the covert-aggressive personality include:
* The determination to win – they value winning above all else. Every life situation is a challenge to be met, a battle to be won. They will generally stop at nothing to get what they want.
* Having a very impaired conscience
* Being deceptively civil, charming and seductive
* Capitalizing on any weakness displayed by others
* Having a disregard for the rights and needs of others
* Ambitiously seeking power and dominance over others
* Actively striving to gain advantage over others
* Will try to get away with just about anything
* The ends always justifies the means. They deceive themselves and others about what they’re really doing.
* If they think you’ve gotten the better of them, they’ll try to get back at you. For them, the battle is never over until they think they’ve won.
Here are the manipulation tactics to watch out for:
Denial
This is when the aggressor refuses to admit that they’ve done something harmful or hurtful when they clearly have. It’s a way they lie (to themselves as well as others) about their aggressive intentions. This “Who… Me?” tactic is a way of “playing innocent,” and invites the victim to feel unjustified in confronting the aggressor about the inappropriateness of a behavior. It’s also the way the aggressor gives him/herself permission to keep right on doing what they want to do. A covert-aggressive personality uses denial to protect his/her self-image.
Lying
It’s often hard to tell when a person is lying at the time he’s doing it. Fortunately, there are times when the truth will out because circumstances don’t bear out somebody’s story. But there are also times when you don’t know you’ve been deceived until it’s too late. One way to minimize the chances that someone will put one over on you is to remember that because aggressive personalities of all types will generally stop at nothing to get what they want, you can expect them to lie and cheat. Another thing to remember is that manipulators – covert-aggressive personalities that they are – are prone to lie in subtle, covert ways. Courts are well aware of the many ways that people lie, as they require that court oaths charge that testifiers tell “the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.” Manipulators often lie by withholding a significant amount of the truth from you or by distorting the truth. They are adept at being vague when you ask them direct questions. This is an especially slick way of lying’ omission. Keep this in mind when dealing with a suspected wolf in sheep’s clothing. Always seek and obtain specific, confirmable information.
Selective Inattention
This tactic is similar to and sometimes mistaken for denial. It’s when the aggressor “plays dumb,” or acts oblivious. When engaging in this tactic, the aggressor actively ignores the warnings, pleas or wishes of others, and in general, refuses to pay attention to everything and anything that might distract them from pursuing their own agenda. Often, the aggressor knows full well what you want from him when he starts to exhibit this “I don’t want to hear it!” behavior.
Rationalization
A rationalization is the excuse an aggressor tries to offer for engaging in an inappropriate or harmful behavior. It can be an effective tactic, especially when the explanation or justification the aggressor offers makes just enough sense that any reasonably conscientious person is likely to fall for it. It’s a powerful tactic because it not only serves to remove any internal resistance the aggressor might have about doing what they want to do (quieting any qualms of conscience they might have) but also to keep others off their back.
Diversion
A moving target is hard to hit. When we try to pin a manipulator down or try to keep a discussion focused on a single issue or behavior we don’t like, they’re expert at knowing how to change the subject, dodge the issue or in some way throw us a curve. They use distraction and diversion techniques to keep the focus off their behavior, move us off-track, and keep themselves free to promote their self-serving hidden agendas.
Covert Intimidation
Aggressors frequently threaten their victims to keep them anxious, apprehensive and in a one-down position. Covert-aggressives intimidate their victims by making veiled (subtle, indirect or implied) threats.
Guilt-tripping
This is one of the covert-aggressive’s two favorite weapons (the other is shaming). It’s a special kind of intimidation tactic. One thing that aggressive personalities know well is that other types of persons have very different consciences than they do. Manipulators are often skilled at using what they know to be the greater conscientiousness of their victims as a means of keeping them in a self-doubting, anxious, and submissive position. The more conscientious the potential victim, the more effective guilt is as a weapon. Aggressive personalities of all types use guilt-tripping so frequently and effectively as a manipulative tactic. All a manipulator has to do is suggest to the conscientious person that they don’t care enough, are too selfish, etc., and that person immediately starts to feel bad. On the contrary, a conscientious person might try until they’re blue in the face to get a manipulator (or any other aggressive personality) to feel badly about a hurtful behavior, acknowledge responsibility, or admit wrongdoing, to absolutely no avail.
Shaming
Using rhetorical comments, subtle sarcasm and other techniques, covert-aggressives can invite you to feel ashamed of yourself. This technique is used as a means of increasing fear and self-doubt in others. Covert-aggressives use this tactic to make others feel inadequate or unworthy, and therefore, submit to them. It’s an effective way to foster a continued sense of personal inadequacy in the weaker party, thereby allowing an aggressor to maintain a position of dominance.
Playing the Victim Role
This tactic involves portraying oneself as an innocent victim of circumstance or someone else’s behavior in order to gain sympathy, evoke compassion and thereby get something from another. One thing that covert-aggressive personalities count on is the fact that less calloused and hostile personalities usually can’t stand to see anyone suffering. Therefore, the tactic is simple. Convince your victim you’re suffering in some way, and they’ll try to relieve your distress.
Vilifying the Victim
This tactic is frequently used in conjunction with the tactic of playing the victim role. The aggressor uses this tactic to make it appear he is only responding (i.e. defending himself against) aggression on the part of the victim. It enables the aggressor to better put the victim on the defensive.
Playing the Servant Role
Covert-aggressives use this tactic to cloak their self-serving agendas in the guise of service to a more noble cause. It’s a common tactic but difficult to recognize. By pretending to be working hard on someone else’s behalf, covert-aggressives conceal their own ambition, desire for power, and quest for a position of dominance over others.
Seduction
Covert-aggressive personalities are adept at charming, praising, flattering or overtly supporting others in order to get them to lower their defenses and surrender their trust and loyalty.
Projecting the Blame (blaming others)
Aggressive personalities are always looking for a way to shift the blame for their aggressive behavior. Covert-aggressives are not only skilled at finding scapegoats, they’re expert at doing so in subtle, hard to detect ways.
Minimization
This tactic is a unique kind of denial coupled with rationalization. When using this maneuver, the aggressor attempting to assert their abusive behavior isn’t really as harmful or irresponsible as someone else may be claiming. It’s the aggressor’s attempt to make a molehill out of a mountain.
(Excerpt from In Sheep’s Clothing: Understanding and Dealing With Manipulative People — by George K. Simon)
- Tom
new thread fyi
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..from-sxsw/
There’s probably nobody here anymore, but I’m glad I came back. That is an awesome summary Scotian, makes me proud to be in the same country.
theExile @ 202
*blush*
Thank you, kind words indeed, especially since I tend to be long winded and my sentences can run on more than a bit. I like to think I have a reasonable understanding of how American politics works as well as Canadian, it is always preferable to offer informed opinions instead of wild assed guesses/speculations without foundation in reality/fact. As I said earlier, I am not a conservative…:)
I though it was a very good summary too Scotian, but I don’t know how closely you were following matters here when Ashcroft recused. It wasn’t “miraculous” that Comey got a Special Counsel and recusal, imo. Instead, it was “miraculous” that he dodged the independent counsel bullet, which would have given a much broader mandate.
That seems to be a point that gets lost, but I remember it pretty well bc I was furious over the in-housing. Fitzgerald did as well as anyone could in that situation, but Comey didn’t open doors with Special Prosecutor appointment, he closed them. IMO, fwiw, based on the statutes applicable and the then existing calls for Indep Counsel.
Mary4 @ 204
I was following reasonably closely and I remember what you are referring to, but to be honest why I said it was miraculous was because they weren’t able to limit it even further to actually blocking it altogether. And whatever else putting Fitzgerald in place may have limited how many charges could be brought (since he was not one to file charges lightly unlike some other prosecutors) versus what an independent counsel or more partisan/aggressive special prosecutor had been given the same mandate but it also put a real pit-bull with an ability to grasp details and be very meticulous in detailing them on their case which is why we got where we have I believe. I really think Fitzgerald thinks that thanks to Libby he cannot go after Cheney and he left things where they are in the hopes that the Congress will pick things up that are beyond his scope at the moment that may in the process aid in giving him another way to prosecute for the original offence. I realize this is speculation, but everything I get about Fitzgerald from his history (and my interest and awareness dates back to his terrorist prosecuting days, although I would not say I followed him closely simply I got a basic idea of who he was and what he tended to be like, since this investigation I did flesh out that understanding significantly) and nature professionally tells me he is pissed about the limits he had to work within and the ability of those he was investigating to game him. He recognized the inherent need to be ironclad before charging those at this level, and if Libby had not lied the way he did and gave him this opening he might well have been frustrated.
I don’t paint Comey as a paragon of virtue overall, and I certainly do not think much of his actions vis a vis Arar, but on this one he could have sabotaged it worse, and now that it has gone to this point he can’t walk away from what he did and it still would undercut Toensing I believe. Undercutting that one is something I will take pleasure in seeing whenever and wherever it happens for her actions in this affair from the outset. I just think it is a miracle that despite all the forces working to actively undercut this from day one both inside and out it got this far, and the prosecutor that ended up acting was one of the most professional and respectable prosecutors as a complete contrast to the horrific caricature Ken Starr brought to the profession. Whatever else it is conclusive that Libby lied to the FBI, the Grand Jury, and Obstructed Justice in a national security investigation of the outing of a covert CIA operative and this man reported to only two men, Cheney and Bush. The likelihood of a successful appeal on the merits appears unlikely thanks to the actions of both prosecutor and presiding judge, the defence was certainly competent just had bad material to work with, and the public record of how Bushco screwed around with intelligence issues and any critics during the early days post invasion especially on the nuclear case they argued cannot be wiped away nor easily dismissed. Given how far gone the American judicial system under Bush more recently in particular and the GOP over the longer term of the past quarter century have deteriorated I still believe it is miraculous that during the darkest days this investigation could not be stopped entirely by the Administration with a tame Congress and press corps and that the prosecutor that was eventually assigned the task acted within the powers granted him and actually managed to lay out the broader case against the underlying crime thanks to Libby’s indictments and convictions despite the inability to press charges because of according to Fitzgerald Libby’s obstruction.
Quite honestly this is the first thing that has given me any real hope that America has not gone too far down that road of the rule of power instead of the rule of law despite all the efforts made to take America in that direction by those charged with protecting it’s Constitution and the very premise of the rule of law and the equality of all before it. I have found watching America deteriorate over the last couple of decades and the last decade in particular extremely painful, terrifying, and horrifying. It seemed like the it can’t happen here mentality had been the demise of yet another democratic society in human history and worse I feared it would end up infecting my own nation and bringing us down as well. America is after all so much more powerful in all senses of the word with the exception of moral (and that is not as massive a gap as it once was, Harper is alas undercutting decades of hard work with his neoconservative views on foreign policy, that damned Calgary School of political thought of his just had to be fans of Leo Strauss…GRRR) power. Resisting your influences when they are not intentional is difficult enough, when they are intentional is nearly impossible these days, and once the forces of darkness have consolidated their hold on power in America it is literally a matter of time until they bring Canada under their umbrella if only to control our resources, which ironically enough will likely be increasing with new revelations thanks to global warming exposing new sources in the north.
Well, I hope that answered your questions. Thank you for the kind words as well, I find myself feeling a bit intimidated in the company of those that tend to comment here let alone those that are the primary bloggers, and that kind of intimidation is not something I feel easily which is a sign of the high calibre intellects and critical thinkers I find here.
Scotian @ 206
Scotian, thanks from me, too. I always find your posts helpful and interesting.
mods, I must’ve left in a link in trying to snip down that blockquote.