Last week I pissed and moaned about posted a semi-comprehensive, semi-coherent analysis of the problems with our media as the first installment of my What's-Wrong-With-Our-Democracy trilogy-unless-I-think-of-some-other-stuff, and that set off an excellent discussion of possible remedies (which I have attempted to summarize back at my place). This week, I want to focus on the very core of democracy and accountability, the electoral process itself… which is not entirely unrelated to the media, as you may have noticed.
There are three layers of problems with the electoral system, each one obscuring and distracting attention from the layer behind it. The first and most obvious layer is the paperless voting machines, whose source code is as fiercely guarded as the machines themselves are not. Their erratic output (usually in the Republicans' favor) has not inspired confidence during their brief tenure, but it is difficult to say conclusively how many election outcomes they have actually altered (at least one for sure).
Of course, the remedy for this one is very simple: ban paperless voting. Individual states (more than I realized) have already moved on this, and Rush Holt (D-NJ) has introduced legislation to make it a federal requirement. There's actually a good chance we could win on this one – the burning question is whether it will be in time for 2008. Holt and other Democrats should not be reluctant to grandstand if Republicans attempt to block or delay electronic voting reform: force them to explain why they don't want our elections to be verifiable.
But electronic manipulation of votes (which I believe is risky enough to be a tactic of last resort), while very high-profile, pales in comparison to the active suppression of votes, through a myriad of legal and illegal dirty tricks: ex-con disenfranchisement and the voter roll purges it enables, ID requirements and other hurdles to the registration and voting process, strategic voting machine shortages in Democratic precincts, deceptive or threatening flyers and robocalls, phonejamming, intimidation by "poll watchers," and a whole host of others that I haven't thought of or don't know about.
Unfortunately, I think we're largely dependent on legislation here, too. The grassroots/netroots can educate and try to counter the misinformation, can assist with registration and voting, but I just don't see any way we can counter voter purges or phonejamming or voting machine deprivation (we can provide snacks and drinks and maybe even umbrellas to people stuck in 3-hour lines, but I'm not sure that's enough). The Obama/Schumer bill is a good start (I especially like the beefed-up penalties, but they're still not enough – election tampering should be a serious felony), but it doesn't go far enough. All of these tactics need to be outlawed, so that everyone can vote if they're eligible, regardless of their socioeconomic status.
But all of these are merely issues with voting itself. The biggest problem by far is not the limitations on our right to vote, but the limitations on who we can vote for. The very structure of our electoral system protects the power of money and incumbency, and makes it extremely difficult for progressives to muster competitive campaigns at the national or statewide level.
There is nothing, absolutely nothing, more destructive to our electoral process than our current campaign finance system. Thanks to the ever-increasing costs of saturation advertising, candidates are becoming more consumed with chasing money than chasing votes. And most of that money is not coming from (financially) ordinary citizens like us, but from wealthy individuals, corporations, and industry PACs. In the so-called "money primary," we don't get much of a vote. And if, as the defenders of the status quo like to say, money equals speech, then we don't get much of a voice, either. Our elections should not be decided by who can raise the most money; that's way down there on my list of Skills It Is Important For My Elected Officials To Have, unless they want to use their fundraising powers to start chipping away at the national debt.
In essence, the big spenders have become vote brokers, selling our votes, and the candidates are making deals with them instead of us. And while some of the big spenders really are progressives, the majority prefer to donate to either incumbents or business- and wealth-friendly challengers. Sure, you get the occasional self-funding multimillionaire, but most of those are not as progressive as Ned Lamont.
So, what to do? I would love to see legislation to force the media to drastically lower their pricing for campaign ad placement (broadcast media in particular, since the government owns their airwaves), partly because it would dramatically reduce campaign funding requirements, and partly because, well, I just really hate the media. I would also like to boost the public financing allowance to keep pace with campaignflation, and/or allow candidates to raise money to supplement it, rather than having to choose one kind of funding or the other. Or, as long as we're talking about Things That Will Never Happen, how about a cap on how much money a candidate can spend, like the salary cap in football?
Of course, incumbents get to make the rules, so unless there is a huge, seat-threatening, throw-the-bums-out groundswell of demand for major campaign finance reform, or a steady infiltration by reform-minded progressives, it's hard to imagine the passage of any laws which might make it significantly harder to get re-elected. So assuming we're on our own, what can we do?
To some extent, we're already doing a lot of it. The good news is that netroots have both fundraising and message dissemination capabilities, through organizations like ActBlue (*waves at Howie*) and MoveOn, allowing us to give money to progressive candidates, while at the same time reducing their need for it. The bad news is that although it has come a long way, our fundraising is still no match for what the elites can provide. We've had our greatest impact on House races and a handful of targeted Senate races, but I fear we will be but a drop in the bucket in the presidential money chase.
We face an additional challenge as well. It is not enough for us to swing races: The Democratic party establishment has to recognize that we can swing races. After our first big wave of success in 2006, the party establishment (and the Republicans) immediately spun the voters' repudiation of the war and embrace of progressive candidates as a victory for DLC-style centrism. And as long as the DLC/K-Street Elite axis of the Democratic Party is allowed to take credit for electoral victories, they will continue to make their absurd claims that selling out the party's core values is totally worth it because it wins elections. And since that is also the path of least resistance to getting the big corporate bucks, they will always be able to find a willing audience. Until we break the DLC's back by providing a reliable alternative path to victory, we are always going to be second in the hearts of our party.
As before, please share whatever ideas you have on how we can improve the electoral system, or at least work around it.
Related posts:
- Welcome Jonathan Tasini, Progressive Candidate For The U.S. Senate From New York
- Landrieu’s Ambivalence on Health Reform Costs Her Keynote at Florida Fundraiser
- Gubernatorial Candidate Creigh Deeds Offers to “Opt Out” Virginia from Public Option
- Michael Steele, Unplugged
- Election 2009: What Happened in Virginia?





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Fitz
Um, apologies if this is a little bit ragged – I ran out of time trying to get the editor’s damn link button to work, so I’m afraid it doesn’t end quite as gracefully as I’d like…
Fitz!
I just broke my voluntary moratorium on “fitzing”, seeing as today is a very special day in “Fitztory”.
I’ll go back to letting everyone else get the 0’s, but I wanted to get one in today!
Eli!
and Team Plame!
and of course….
Fitz!
I just broke my voluntary moratorium on “fitzing”, seeing as today is a very special day in “Fitztory”.
I’ll go back to letting everyone else get the 0’s, but I wanted to get one in today!
Heh. I even have a couple of Libby posts back at my place, and that almost never happens.
Jeralyn’s on.
http://www.airamerica.com/maddow/
In addition to solving the money problem (and in my view it’d be hard to beat public financing), we also need to solve the talent problem.
I know we’re attracting some good people to our races these days, even though their primary qualification is they are seen as being able to raise the needed dough.
I’m thinking of the candidates of the future. The Republicans have a well-oiled machine that grooms people from 12-14 years old all the way up. And part of that is the wingnut welfare system.
But we need to address this in a major way. I have a 15 year old daughter who is politically aware and would pursue a career in politics, but where’s the career path? Go to law school and hope to get lucky?
If she were a right-wing kook, there’d be plenty of options for her to consider. Today, Rick Santorum’s nanny, tomorrow White House intern. But for those of us NOT on the Dark Side, the choices aren’t clear enough.
This has to be a priority if we’re serious about taking back our society.
Public campaign financing seems to be more or less working here in CT, but getting it through on a national level is going to take a huge effort. I realize that the Senate tends to be an incumbant-protection racket, and there are a lot of special interests who want to keep their candidates in power.
But by continuing to support candidates by contributing through ActBlue and MoveOn, we’re not only directly supporting progressives, but we’re also helping to publicize the NEED to get campaign finance reform implemented. Making people aware of the problem is a big step in the right direction.
In addition to solving the money problem (and in my view it’d be hard to beat public financing), we also need to solve the talent problem.
I know we’re attracting some good people to our races these days, even though their primary qualification is they are seen as being able to raise the needed dough.
Wouldn’t it be nice if we had candidates who were good at campaigning and legislating and governing *instead* of fundraising? And didn’t have to pay a penalty for that?
I want a system where politicians are rewarded for integrity instead of pandering and schmooze.
Eli, have you heard that Diebold is may no longer be in the business of electronic voting machines?
Apparently, this division was plagued with so much scandal, they are considering dropping it.
DIEBOLD WEIGHS STRATEGY FOR VOTING UNIT – Wired News
Eli, have you heard that Diebold is may no longer be in the business of electronic voting machines?
Apparently, this division was plagued with so much scandal, they are considering dropping it.
Heh. I think we’ve already had this conversation, or maybe it was someone else who told me about it.
I’m really kind of amazed that they’re capable of embarrassment.
Eli, it doesn’t matter that your analysis (post) is brilliant. These pups are celebratin’ drunk.
Anyway, us rich folk will always find a way to scam the electoral system, and also the media system. i was always disgusted sleeping with Victorean Toensig, because she was never really there there. But she works on camera.
Still, i think that given the level of understanding of the amurkan peoples, it’s probably better that we control their choices.
Eli — Great post, this series has been very illuminating.
We need to work to change our party’s culture about primaries. As districts become less and less competitive across parties, intra-party primaries become the only way to get new, proper representation. (Ellen, I’m looking at you!!) But our party HATES primaries, and there’s always lots of whining about how they are a waste, they pit allies against each other, and they are counterproductive.
Here in SF, we have a primary scheduled between two GLBT officeholders (Mark Leno, termed-out Assemblyman is challenging Carole Migden, current state senator in 2008).
Robert Haaland, former Dem Club President and queer/labor activist, has developed a pledge for a clean campaign. I reference it here in case anyone else is facing primaries between natural allies; maybe we need to include a pledge in our support of any officeholder, BEFORE they get elected, in order to hold them to clean campaigning when they get primaried.
Just a thought; thanks for this excellent and thought-provoking series.
Eli, it doesn’t matter that your analysis (post) is brilliant. These pups are celebratin’ drunk.
Heh. I figured as much. Well, the second part, at least.
Thanks, TeddySF! In my first draft of this post, I actually did go off on a tangent about gerrymandering as another incumbency-protection racket, and I may or may not have planned to say something about that being an invitation to primary challenges.
Because if you gerrymander a safely blue district, and you have a purple congresscritter…
Hi Eli, thanks for tackling an important post, though it’s tough to wrench my thoughts away from Fitz to the voting debacle we have here.
Doing a little pre election fact finding in my state, I was dismayed to find we use quite a few optical scanners, with a paper printout as verification. However, the paper verified voting is useless unless towns are randomly selected for audits. As you say, it is a simple enough matter to tamper with the codes in the voting machines and switch votes. The solution? Ban the freaking optical scanners entirely; or rigorously defend against voting fraud by conducting random audits, with full transparency to the public.
Here in Vermont, I and a few others lobbied our Secretary of State pretty aggressively prior to the election, and to her credit, she heard our concerns, and agreed to conduct random audits in public view.
I think for now, the fight for voting machines is going to be local.
Is anyone else not seeing the ‘Quote this comment’ option?
I haven’t seen it since this morning.
Still need more contributors to the Independent Bloggers’ Alliance. Election integrity is definitely an issue I’d like to see covered, but I haven’t been able to keep on top of those developments lately.
I did post the transcript of Bono’s NAACP Chairman’s Award Acceptance Speech, though. Very inspirational.
Doing a little pre election fact finding in my state, I was dismayed to find we use quite a few optical scanners, with a paper printout as verification. However, the paper verified voting is useless unless towns are randomly selected for audits. As you say, it is a simple enough matter to tamper with the codes in the voting machines and switch votes. The solution? Ban the freaking optical scanners entirely; or rigorously defend against voting fraud by conducting random audits, with full transparency to the public.
At least the optical scanners have a paper trail, so that if anyone tampers with results, they know they could very well get busted. The trick would be how to tamper with the vote subtly enough that no-one becomes suspicious enough to demand a paper recount.
Balrog the quotes have been turned off temporarily because of all the traffic on the site.
Balrog: “Quote” is temporarily disabled to alleviate server load when volume is as high as today…
Is anyone else not seeing the ‘Quote this comment’ option?
I haven’t seen it since this morning.
I was wondering about that. It’s probably to cut down on server overhead – maybe they expect above-average traffic today for some reason.
(It’s probably a Fitzmas miracle that I even got this post in today…)
“Refresh” has disappeared for me a couple times.
“Eli is a rockstar.“
Now I have to go back and read the post.
We here in WA state also have the optical scanners with paper trail. Interestingly, ( I stuck my foot in my mouth and got called on it,so I actually did some research)Each county in the state chooses which kind of voting machine they use. There is no statewide standard. ( As of my last research)
Okay, but if you know that you have a watchdog Secretary of State, who will randomly select multiple precincts to audit, and will then public audit with handcounts, that increases your risk of getting busted, subtle or not.
Okay, but if you know that you have a watchdog Secretary of State, who will randomly select multiple precincts to audit, and will then public audit with handcounts, that increases your risk of getting busted, subtle or not.
Well, yes, that would be nice.
Great post, Eli!
Just stopping by the blog for the first time today.
Did I miss anything important?
Thanks, TRex!
No, nothing, just this *very* insightful post about election reform…
nah, same ol’ same ol’, y’a know?
2 words that don’t belong together: voting machine. The paper ballots used in some parts of ca are perfect. Connect the head and tail of an arrow to mark your vote. A touch screen cannot be simpler, a computer system not more secure.
I’m stunned Fitz said the investigation is inactive.
Reading between the lines is he begging Congress to ask for the records?
Yeah, same with my state, Bustedknuckles. But what I also read recently is that the company that makes Optical Scanners is aggressively marketing them to the Sec of State, who has emailed all town clerks asking if they want free scanners. Now, I guess some of the town clerks are thinking this is a good time saving device – and they are opting in. This is where letters to editor, a visit to one’s town clerk, etc, could help.
OT: Special Edition of Hardball Live
Matt Cooper will be on
Shuster on right now live
Eli @ #19,
for me, the Quote’s gone, as is the Edit.
That’s MSNBC.com’s headline
I thought what the jurors said was that Libby was a perjurer who obstructed justice.
I changed to permanent absentee voter to avoid the electronic machines – they are here in CA too.
I also like some of the ideas that were generated before the last election. I know alot of FDLers were motivated to sign up as poll watchers. But also some took it upon themselves to act as citizen watchdogs, manning the polls with video cameras and cell phones. I think we could organize this kind of thing, state by state, pinpointing trouble spots – ie those with “voting machines” or any precinct that is red flagged.
for me, the Quote’s gone, as is the Edit.
Same deal. No nonessential frippery until the Plamania dies down.
*eyes spellcheck button suspiciously*
The quote/edit buttons will return. They were disabled for verdict day to ease the load on the servers.
Trex, If no one shows up tonight, not to worry because they are out celebrating.
*waves to Suzanne*
And some of us are quietly celebrating at the keyboard.
To Fitz! Clink. Glug glug.
thanx for info Suzanne
I’m stunned Fitz said the investigation is inactive.
Reading between the lines is he begging Congress to ask for the records?
That is my take.
Hey TRex. Dayam, you look good in the daytime.
This may have been reported before. NewsHour says the investigation is now closed and that there will be no further charges. Fitzgerald said it was inactive. I think if he had wanted to say closed he would have.
I say we just host a game show on NBC – Who wants to be the next President of the USA.
Get all the candidates and make them compete in real presidential affairs – Balancing budgets in 30 minutes (Point out if they fucked up and gave too much money to Halliburton or something), meeting with ambassadors and prime ministers or presidents of other countries (maybe S. American would be best – These cats may cost a lot less to have on the show than European counterparts. Also, I think it’d be great to see how a candidate handles being called a devil by Chavez).
Work your way from 16 to 1. AMERICA, YOU DECIDE.
And, to keep America love/hating the judges, we’ll have Simon from American Idol as one of the judges.
Sadly, I think people would be interested. But I don’t think it’s terribly bad – It’s just the medium which people tend to gravitate toward these days. The way our physical communities have been designed or set up, there are virtually NO meeting places any more.
Community squares, or town halls, do not exist or not used for community meetings. We no longer discuss such things in these settings. So, make a game show, let the politicians talk and compete, and then have america vote with their phones. The candidates with the least votes are removed, week by week.
And yes, this is a joke. But so is America, so we might as well laugh a bit as we sail into a sea of madness! madness I tells you!
BTW I’m celebrating Fitzmas with cheap malt liquor.
TRex!
great post last night!
an inspiration and a keeper.
How’s your back?
I thought of you as I slapped on another thermacare heatwrap and spritzed on a suffocating amount of O24
Matt Cooper on Hardball right now
I’m expecting a TRex party post which underscores the importance of the Peanut wearing haute couture Stegosaurus.
Fitz seems to be a man careful with his words. “Inactive” is not the same as “closed”.
Fitz said he would “do the appropriate thing” if asked to turn over records to the congress.
Is there a problem with him doing so?
I say we just host a game show on NBC – Who wants to be the next President of the USA.
Ironically, I have said many times that Dubya acts like the presidency is some kind of reality show prize.
He loves all the perks and adoration and posturing, but absolutely *hates* all the responsibility.
We seemed to have picked the wrong door in the contest. *g*
Voting Day should be a Federal holiday.
Voting Day should be a Federal holiday.
Oh yeah, that’s a good one. And very simple.
I’ve reminded folks for years that the airwaves are SUPPOSEDLY the property of the American people (just “supposedly” since it doesn’t appear to mean a damned thing — corporations make billions on our airwaves and then distort the news to boot — all using property which belongs to WE THE PEOPLE).
That being the case, the broadcasting corporations (local and national teevee, cable, radio) OWE it to the American people to provide a certain amount of time for the candidates to use (the amount of time could be negotiated/haggled) to present themselves to the American voting public.
That should be FREE. It is entirely a grave sin that the corporations get obscenely wealthy off the distortion of democracy, using the property of the same American public which gets screwed by the process to do so.
Agree about the holiday, let’s move presidents day and use that, seems right.
We still have town meeting day in Vermont. (today as a matter of fact – first tuesday in march). Everything is closed. No school. Take care of business day.
They’ve privatized the air waves, worked as good as the Walter Reed deal.
They’ve privatized the air waves, worked as good as the Walter Reed deal.
They’ve treated the truth in much the same way WR treated wounded vets…
This problem from hell requires a little lateral thinking and fuzzy logic…so lets go across the pond and back in time a bit…the EU superstate that included Big Left, Big Right and Big Media delivered on popular passport free travel and a convenient common currency and was then getting delusions of gradiosity and asking for more police power. This crude attempt (to rival the American Military-entertainment complex?) was rebuffed by a sort of spontaneous twin pronged reaction. In a healthy ‘immune reaction’ referendum the far left and the far right then beat the ‘center’.
This could be a sort of ‘ Impi’ strategy where we ,the people, advance in diversity and strike in unison. The free net is our best and sharpest weapon so lets raise peoples consciousness on ripping the last empire a new one Shaka Zulu style!
Lets ROLL! ( cue Dean scream)
Hey people, forget about more Fitz. Marcy has always said that any charges about the “outing” of our heroine Plame would end up in the bushco supreme court before there was a word about the facts. Is Instadeclassification permitted oder nicht? Fitz got it right, go to the destroyed congress if you want the truth.
Umhh, i want the truth, Mr. Conyers.
Eli –
As one of the frontpagers writing about non-trial stuff for the last couple of weeks, let me just say that you won the prize for having the best post that gets swamped by a Libby verdict. My fear with my post yesterday was that this would have happened to me.
Two fast thoughts:
(1) Thanks for taking one for the team.
(2) Don’t let go of this.
Between the ActBlue work that got the notice of the behind-the-scenes party folks (whether they will admit it or not) and the Libby Trial blogging that got the attention of the MSM, FDL has become a force in the American political debate, and we’re not going away any time soon. Keep pushing!
Eli@54
Bush sure doesn’t seem to want to be bothered with the job. I half expected him not to run in 2004,
if only. *sigh*
EPU’d from last thread:
The truth breaks their cameras, Fox went down when Fitz gave his presser today.
In Germany voting day has always been (and still is, unless I’m mistaken) on a Sunday.
This is because virtually all businesses are closed on Sunday.
Sunday would never work here, the fundies would have a fit about voting (work) on the Lord’s Day. And stores and many other businesses are open on Sundays now that virtually all “blue laws” have been abolished.
Still having voting day as a holiday makes perfect sense. We should definitely do it.
I’m for mailing it in — my vote, that is.
Thanks, Peterr! I was actually worried about this scenario last week.
On the other hand, I guess there’ll be all these people coming to FDL for the skinny on the verdict who will see my post… and then skip right past it looking for Libby stuff.
(Peterr!)
The airwaves are LEASED, not owned, by private corporations.
[fat lot of good it does, grumble, grumble]
Take it to heart Eli, Peterr is right.
This is a hugely important subject and it is way overdue for adjustment.
The airwaves are LEASED, not owned, by private corporations.
[fat lot of good it does, grumble, grumble]
When was the last time an owner lost a license?
What the rethugs
soldgave away, the people will reclaim.Eli -
litigatormom sacrificed a goat, you sacrificed a post, and Libby got cooked.
Tweety says Fitz is like a virgin? LOL
Now Sauber:
Tweety: As an attorney, how did you see this? It befuddled us non-attorneys.
Sauber: It’s a standard case you see in criminal investigations. People who lie to GJ get caught up in it. It happens every day.
Tweety: this juror Collins seems like an accomplished guy. He said 9 examples of libby talking about Plame, nobody believed that libby really forgot.
Sauber: from the beginning I thought case against libby was overwhelming, and that Fitz had no choice but to bring the case.
Tweety: what was Wells’ defense?
Sauber: he tried to cast it as a he-said, she-said, but if Libby had not tried to make stuff up, manufacture story….he was a scapegoat, they rejected that.
Tweety: scapegoat is innocent, fall guy is guilty.
Sauber: yes you are right. What struck me in courtroom was level of antipathy to administration. Wells tried to tap into that, make Scooter a victim. They bought into that somewhat, but he was still guilty.
More Sauber: Fitz is owed an apology. Had a job, did it, didn’t leak, not partisan.
Tweety: not partisan at all. Seems like the most virginal, cleanest guy in Washington.
VIRGINAL? Why does Tweety always have penises on the brain?
CLEANEST? Do other prosecutors have bad hygiene?
I wish Tweety would mention that there already is a book about this case!!
Take it to heart Eli, Peterr is right.
This is a hugely important subject and it is way overdue for adjustment.
Unfortunately, I kinda suck at that. I hate to repeat myself, so I probably wouldn’t write about it again unless something new came up.
I’ll try to keep an eye on how that Rush Holt legislation is progressing, and I’ll try to work it in if I have occasion to plug ActBlue (i.e., if there’s a Dem presidential candidate I like…).
I’m hoping that we’ll get reruns on the posts that haven’t gotten enough discussion. This stuff is too good to get lost in drunken celebration.
I wish Tweety would mention that there already is a book about this case!!
Marcy needs an updated edition. Denis Collins will surely have a good shot at a book, prolly has offers by now.
Yeah, Eli, I agree with Peterr. This post is simply not going to get the attention it deserves tonight. The collapse of fair elections is a huge issue, and we need to start bearing down on it, now.
However, that said, I keep having happy thoughts of Fitz not being able to pay for a drink and people slapping him on the back and Marcy drinking wine and getting even fiercer than she already is and the celebrating going on all over the country. And did I say, let’s toast to Fitz?
litigatormom sacrificed a goat, you sacrificed a post, and Libby got cooked.
On the one hand, I sweated blood over the post.
On the other hand, I fear it’s a little shaky – I didn’t really figure out a good angle until late last night.
I sign online petitions, call my congressional representatives and give money when I can to organizations like MoveOn as well as to individual candidates. Where money is concerned I have absolutely no interest in contributing to K Street candidates. Period. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but when McAuliffe first pointed the DNC in the direction of major corporate donors there was no Internet and no real netroots. Corporations and zillionaires were where you went for big bucks. The result was a head-to-head corporate sponsored competition between the Ds and the Rs for advertising budget dollars. Where did it lead? On the one side, corporatist neocons, on the other side corporatist neolibs. That’s where we are today. That’s why McAuliffe is still a strategist for Hilary in 2008.
If the netroots wants to raise $1BB plus a year (which it could), it needs to have a single payee system among the various progressive organizations that individuals like myself can contribute to on a per paycheck basis. An automatic deduction. And that money has to go to progressive candidates with as little administrative overhead expense as possible. That would make the progressive money the 800 lb. gorilla. Do the math. Multiply 10-20 million people by $200-300 a year and tell me what you get.
Jackass from the National Review wants a pardon now on tweety.
Back Kucinich and Ron Paul…we need to back a people’s president for a change….no DLC BS
Yeah, Eli, I agree with Peterr. This post is simply not going to get the attention it deserves tonight. The collapse of fair elections is a huge issue, and we need to start bearing down on it, now.
Well, I’ll be linking to it in the intro to next week’s post, if that helps…
Chief Spearcatcher!
Please do though. Let everyone get over their hangovers and dust themselves off and gird their loins again for another round.
Eli- I hope you keep hammering away at this topic. You are so correct on so many points.
As for people coming to FDL to get the skinny on the verdict- well, it was actually mercifully simple. I was teaching at the time, but I gather the verdict was reported like “boom, boom, boom”. It’s the spin that is complicated, or complicating, or… whatever.
Eli the post is fine. Any other day…
It’s Fitzmas everyone!
Do people stop on Christmas and start talking about haloween? NO.
Can’t we just continue the conversation about Fitzmas? If you wacth coverage of the Loibby trial on TV, share your observations here. Thanks.
raven: “Jackass from the National Review wants a pardon now on tweety.”
Why do the republicans hate the justice system? Why do they hate America?
Talking points
TeddySF@79 – if Tweedy’s producers were smart they’d book Marcy early before she gets booked up!
re: Tweety saying Fitz is like a virgin.
Please. We’re swooning as it is.
Got to go cook dinner. Regular menu is out tonight — it’s a celebration! The Kid wants me to make crab fettucini, and who am I to argue with that?
(Actually, his first request was for calamari, but we’re out of that. Whatta kid!)
Thanks lit-mom. Your coverage has been excellent.
I’m curios if anyone knows a TV channel that’s going to show Fitz’s post trial presser. Did he have two? One immediatly and one at 5:05?
I. Guilty
II. Guilty
III. Not Guilty
IV. Guilty
V. Guilty
Waving at VG.
Hi Valley Girl!
Ironically — or not — just now I got a call from the DNC (Democratic National Committee) asking me to join so that they could get a million new members and “send a strong message” to the prez … yada, yada, yada. I was in no mood. How much stronger does the message need to be? We want justice. We want honest government. We want out of Iraq. That message has been sent but, apparently, not received. I guess you could say she caught me at a bad time.
Thanks for your post, Eli. Very important stuff.
Thanks Eli!
Fitz presser on cspan1 tonight at 10pm.
Yes, Marcy should add a postscript. We should contribute.
Some bozo named David Rivkin is saying the jury was wrong, sometimes juries get it wrong.
Richard Ben-Veniste: POTUS has discretion to pardon, he can do it, but he would do it for the spear carrier of the WH trying to manipulate the press.
Rivkin: totally incorrect. This administration, unlike Watergate, there is no underlying crime. Plame not covered by statute. Since when is it a crime to confront a critic who was not totally honest.
Tweety: if trip was undertaken as a result of Cheney inquiry, testimony of several witnesses, why didn’t Cheney get report of trip.
Rivkin: because report validated yellowcake theory. [Marcy’s book explains this meme.]
Ben-Veniste: if information doens’t fit the program, it gets discarded.
Tweety: Tenet told me to ask Cheney about getting a report on Wilson.
Ben-Veniste: no pardon now, will play out for some time. President has power to do it. But by giving him a pardon, you have to acknowledge that he is an underling carrying out the wishes of the Veep.
Rivkin: because no underlying crime, a pardon does not reward Scooter. [THE SOUND YOU HERE IS THE COMBINED FORCE OF VOMIT AND HEAD IMPLOSION]
Rivkin: Veep not under any cloud. Fitz is overreaching.
Tweety: so is Libby innocent.
Rivkin: I HONESTLY DO NOT KNOW IF HE LIED UNDER OATH. But every witness in this case had a different recollection. Case about memory. Knocks Timmeh’s recollection.
So. Rivkin says that maybe Libby lied, but his prosecution and conviction is still an outrage, and that pardoning him will not reward criminality.
FURTHER RETCHING AND HEAD IMPLOSION…..
Tweety let’s this jerkoff have the last word, just like he did over and over with John O Neil.
hey angie, will that be the same presser he had outside the courthouse, or another one?
Eli- I am chiming in with a “reprise this post”- or break it into parts and expand with links to the various dirty deeds that have been done. The lull after the storm is the perfect time to do this.
busted- waving back!
Eli: sorry your post is being hijacked. It’s important, you should re-post it tomorrow.
The top staffer to the Vice President of the United States was convicted today of perjury, false statements and obstruction of justice.
Pass it on.
Rivkin: because no underlying crime, a pardon does not reward Scooter. [THE SOUND YOU HERE IS THE COMBINED FORCE OF VOMIT AND HEAD IMPLOSION]
My dogs get anxious when their dog daddy screams at the TV.
Guess I was wrong to say the lull after the storm, above, because it isn’t going to be that way- the spin after the storm, and countering that. LitigMom- how many goats do you have available?
So basically, if you want to make any media changes, we have to wait for the next presidential candidate to appoint some progressives into the FCC.
That’s the target right there. Focus on FCC. With as much money is involved with the media, a good appointee or two in there, the conglomerates will be more careful.
carolyn urban @ 52 “Fitz seems to be a man careful with his words. “Inactive” is not the same as “closed”.”
Great observation!
jeffreyw @ 52 “Fitz said he would “do the appropriate thing” if asked to turn over records to the congress. Is there a problem with him doing so?”
No, there is a legal process defined to authorize Congress to receive the records. Rayne knows the details. A Congresscritter must initiate it…. Paging John Conyers….
Hijacked, damn sorry.
Totally off topic for tonite, i would personally like to thank Mr. Irving Libby for lying, without which we wouldn’t have had such a good chance to talk about lying within the MSM. (Sorry Eli, it’s just too frickin important.)
And trying to get back on post, i would like to ask Mr. Chainey: who elected you?
That’s the target right there. Focus on FCC. With as much money is involved with the media, a good appointee or two in there, the conglomerates will be more careful.
An important step.
OT–I am watching MSNBC (against my better judgment, unless it is Olbermann) and the designated Republican Talking Head is driving me crazy with his stubborn adherence to the Rove/RNC talking point that it was wrong to convict Scooter for perjury when “there was no underlying crime.” He says it was all just politics as usual, the way things are done in Washington.
Oh, so interfering with and obstructing a federal investigation of a deliberate breach of national security that damaged the nation’s intelligence apparatus, by repeatedly lying about it, is not a sufficient “underlying crime” to be prosecuted?
Where do they find these roboRepugs?
Hijacked, damn, sorry. Is what I meant.
So do you think that the Prosecution team is flying home or getting hammered on those tiny bottles of booze from the hotel fridge?
A few years ago I had major knee surgery and couldn’t walk well for a while. The kids would always come running when they heard me yell, for fear that I was falling.
After a while though they would just say, “Oh, that’s just Mom screaming at the TV.” Fortunately, by then I wasn’t falling. Much.
pwright: hammered. Not in a hotel room though. An Irish bar, stuffed with legal types.
carolyn– it’s the original one from today with Wells and Collins, too.
litigatormom at 104 says:
I can relate! I swear, sometimes the people from the National review makes me wonder if freedom of speech is worth it (that was tongue in cheek!)
Pretty sure Fitz’ll have to drive home to Chicago, as his flight got snowed-out and he had to drive 15 hours to DeeCee.
I have a problem with how the candidates are selected.
Teddy – Drive! Come on Fitz is smart enough to have rented a car for the marathon Chicago to DC so he could fly home.
I have a problem with how the candidates are selected.
I probably could have gone on about the primary process, which is a completely contrived and artificial way to choose candidates.
litigatormom @ 78 – Matthews, catholic if I’m no mistken, equates virginity with lack of corruption. sex is corruption. UGH.
Rivkin is the puke that wrote the Wapoo op/ed with Casey dissing the “Europeans” for going after the folks that are practicing extraordinary rendition.
litigatormom @ 78 – Matthews, catholic if I’m no mistken, equates virginity with lack of corruption. sex is corruption. UGH.
Who wouldn’t feel dirty after sex with Tweety?
Tweety asks John Edwards: Should Veep resign?
JE: I don’t know at this point. Don’t know extent of Veep involvment. We need to know the whole story. Clearly in the course of their duties, we need to know.
Tweety: should POTUS pardon Libby.
JE: No. He should not be pardoned. Convicted of crime related to official duties, working for Veep.
Tweety: so what will POTUS do to get rid of stench. Brings on Michael Wolfe, who says:
Pressure on WH to pardon. When it’s safe.
Gene Robinson: yeah, when Bush is on the way out the door, why not?
Tweety: but he’s a felon.
Robinson: but the election is over by the time the pardon is given.
Tweety: give the pardon now.
Wolfe: when no defense presented, makes you wonder whether there is already a deal in the works for a pardon.
Gee, ya think?
Ben-Veniste and Natasha Toensing on PBS New Hour:
Natasha delightfully incoherent, said Fitz’ investigation was politicized, then
backed down when challenged by Ben-Veniste.
Definitely past her sell-by date.
Ready for a Distingiuished Scholar position at AEI.
Neil@129
Sure seems likes Tweety’s a perv
Earlier today I heard Toesing (sp?) saying that Valerie was not covert and classified doesn’t mean diddly, so this case should not have been brought because there was no underlying crime. So even a jury verdict doesn’t matter if you’re a Republican.
What if tweety were to go fuck himself?
angie @ 103
“Fitz presser on cspan1 tonight at 10pm. “
Thanks Angie.
Dear FDL gang,
When I heard the verdict today I was thrilled. Thank you so much for what you did to provide the public with the truth and giving us hope that we can continue to expose the truth and rid ourselves of these criminals. In the future i sincerely hope that politicians are very aware of the power of the blogs. My contribution to the occupancy of Plame House has made me feel like a true patriot. Peace
today, Libby.
tomorrow, lawd Connie Black.
i caught the Fitz presser at work and man’0′man, did he ever look great, his delivery was perfect.
he looked like a guy who knew he was gonna get laid tonight.
sorry Eli, just got home. i’ll read your post now.
Fitz!
Raven says
March 6th, 2007 at 4:41 pm
“What if tweety were to go fuck himself?”
Horrors! It might multiply!
More Michael Wolfe: probably libby thinks he will be taken care of.
Tweety: lying didn’t help him, wasn’t for money, it helped the VEEP.
Wolfe: loyalty, stupidity, confusion and panic.
Buchanan: didn’t say Veep told him then he has to admit he’s out there leaking for the Veep. If learned from reporters, then he’s covered the Veep, covered himself.
Wolfe: stuck with bad story. Frantic need to come up with story. Remember, the context is whether country was misled.
Tweety: I am just wondering why he’s swinging and no one else is.
Buchanan: Scooter is thinking, wow i put the name out there, I could be guilty.
Tweety: why did he think Russert would cover.
They run out of time….
You rock L-gator-mom @ 132.
Thanks for heads up on the presser rerun on C-SPAN tonight.
WaPo has a short highlights vid available of Fitzgerald answering ?s on courthouse steps:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00655.html
You rock L-gator-mom @ 141
Just saw Vicky on the News Hour. She was all over the map, conflating all sorts of things that had nothing to do with nothing.
And what was that god-awful outfit? A bright purple “I am sorry about my neck” turtleneck topped by a cheesy 80s black jacket with black suede applique. Big 80s sparkly clip on earrings as well. The hair cut was a bad version of an early 70s shag.
But the worst part was her creepy smile.
L-gator-mom, how many goats do you have available?
I have a cousin in Vermont who raises goats. She would probably be willing to do the sacrifice as long as she got to eat it.
What kills me about Matthews is how bad he feels for Mrs. Libby. Buchanon and Matthews have not once said anything about Valerie.
Yes, the last question Tweety asked:
Why did Scooter think that Russert would cover for him?
Did he think that Russert would never testify, never contradict him? That using Russert as a cover story was a black box that would never be penetrated?
But why take the chance? Why take the chance? Why put your fate in the hands of someone, no matter how much of a useful tool they’ve proven themselves to be in the past, is still not within your complete control?
Why not just say, “I don’t remember speaking to anyone.”
If he thought he couldn’t say that because sooner or later one of the reporters would talk, then how could he know that Russert wouldn’t talk?
I still think it has something to do with Mary Matalin, with whom Russert is very chummy on a personal basis. Carville and Matalin double date with the Russerts all the time, and Carville and Matalin appear on Russert’s Xmas edition of MTP every year with their kids.
lit-mom, you are right. Tweety cut himself off after he asked that question — clearly Punkinhead’s motivations are not to be questioned or discussed. Right to commercial….
oh and crooks and liars has the video of Fitz up.
(thank you John!)
http://www.crooksandliars.com/
Yes, the last question Tweety asked:
Why did Scooter think that Russert would cover for him?
Did he think that Russert would never testify, never contradict him? That using Russert as a cover story was a black box that would never be penetrated?
But why take the chance? Why take the chance? Why put your fate in the hands of someone, no matter how much of a useful tool they’ve proven themselves to be in the past, is still not within your complete control?
Why not just say, “I don’t remember speaking to anyone.”
If he thought he couldn’t say that because sooner or later one of the reporters would talk, then how could he know that Russert wouldn’t talk?
Because the media HAS ALWAYS COVERED FOR THEM.
Why would they expect that to change?
I have just decided that I will no longer watch Chris Matthews. No sympathy for Valerie.
Teddy #150- but wait, I thought Tweety and Russert hated each other. Or is my memory failing?
Tweety: libby is gone, he’s a felon, he may be disbarred. How does Cheney, his conjoined twin, not go down?
Buchanan: this will be over in a week.
Wolfe: Cheney has already gone down. Cheney is not the same as he was a year ago.
Robinson: he’s not running the world. Condi is running the world. [Oh THAT makes me feel better!]
Mrs. Libby knows Scooter was lying. I don’t feel bad for her.
Wait a minute! Tweety and Potato Head on the same show? I thought they hated each other.
I wonder how many people picked up on the timing…
Over 3,000 dead soldiers parents, wives, kids. . .and we’re supposed to feel sorry for Mrs Libby. My dying ass.
litigatormom — are you free to live blog the next big thing?
pwrlght
“So do you think that the Prosecution team is flying home or getting hammered on those tiny bottles of booze from the hotel fridge?”
I think they’re spending the evening together in DC and celebrating the victory. Fitz is playing a practical joke on Zeidenberg and Bonamici is laughing her ass off.
The folks from the FBI are taking it all in and loving life. Finally, they think, some incredibly competent prosecutors who are standing up the stench and corruption of the overly politicized and excessivly incompetent Bush Administration.
I do feel bad for Mrs Libby and I imagine the jury did too. Obviously he did not consult her before he dragged his young family (and his kids are quite young) into this fiasco. Not likely what she thought she signed up for when she married the guy when he was still in private practice…
The right wing spin and reaction to Libby verdict also have to pass through the lens of:
Would they be this energized and indignant if this had happened during the Clinton Administration?
Would it be “Oh hey, there was no underlying crime”? Or “It was just politics as usual.”
Would they still think that the standard for evidence against Libby should have been set higher? Or would they want it lower, a lot lower?
I just wanted to point out that with the winner take all electoral system, there really isn’t any room outside the established two parties for candidates. The two choices seem to be: change the two main political parties from the inside, or two revamp the whole electoral system to look something like Germany’s or England’s. As it stands, it is difficult to have a unified, progressive voice shine through the democratic party.
Thanks Steelthing. That was very generous.
Eli @ 152:
More complicated than that. They cover for them when its no skin off their noses (just ours).
But in effect Libby counting on Russert to perjure himself, or at the very least to make a false statement to a government investigator. He was asking Russert not just to play the usual footsie-access game. He was asking him to commit a crime.
I think Libby thought that Matalin could get Russert to do it.
I think that one of the reasons that Russert clammed up after his initial interview with the FBI was because he was protecting Matalin from prosecution for suborning perjury. He only wanted to talk about his conversation with Libby, no none else. He didn’t want to have to lie about Matalin.
That’s my story and I’m sticking with it.
Teddy #150- but wait, I thought Tweety and Russert hated each other. Or is my memory failing?
Matalin said Russert hated Matthews
jeffreyw @ 159. She’s good isn’t she? I’ll bet she done her fair share of depositions.
Oh, and your idea to make election day a national holiday, say swap president’s day, is pure genius.
Woodhall @162 – Don’t you think she knew Scooter lied?
Doug Brinkley’s audio is out if sych!
I just wanted to point out that with the winner take all electoral system, there really isn’t any room outside the established two parties for candidates. The two choices seem to be: change the two main political parties from the inside, or two revamp the whole electoral system to look something like Germany’s or England’s. As it stands, it is difficult to have a unified, progressive voice shine through the democratic party.
Yep, absolutely right. Although removing the financial barriers for progressive candidates to run would mitigate the two-party effect a bit. Candidates might be a little more free to tailor themselves to their states or districts rather than the demands of the money men.
Been quite a day. Feeling weird celebrating Fitzmas alone, but then there is the FDL community!
Been catching up on reading the threads.
Had a class to lead at noon when the verdict was coming out. Gave the folks the choice, the Moyers video or the verdict. They chose verdict. Tried to get something on the radio. Got NPR. After 2 minutes of their awful mumbling it was clear they didn’t know what they were talking about. I turned it off and clued everyone in. We started the video 20 minutes late and I’ve been behind since then.
THANK YOU TEAM FDL, Jane, Marcy, Christy, Pach, Egregious, et al. It has been quite a ride!
I think that Libby thought that Russert would hide behind protecting confidential sources and refuse to speak to the FBI. Which would not have been an unreasonable expectation. Remember Scooter let Judy Judy Judy sit in jail for 85 days and would’ve been happy to let Russert do the same.
But in effect Libby counting on Russert to perjure himself, or at the very least to make a false statement to a government investigator. He was asking Russert not just to play the usual footsie-access game. He was asking him to commit a crime.
Or he thought Russert would pull a Judy Miller and get away with it.
OK
I have been following the whole electronic voting thing for awhile and have held back on commenting because to me, the answer is so obvious, surely the folks in charge could figure this out.
I am an IT guy, and I know the technology to do this is not complicated or expensive, so here goes my plan.
First, I want to begin by admitting that ALL technology can be hacked. That doesn’t make it bad, just have to put in some checks and balances (ok, these haven’t been working so well in our government lately but…). So my plan includes them all in a very realistic way that would cost too much.
1. Provide for electronic balloting with a two copy print out receipt. Ever used a credit card? Yep its that simple.
2. Have receipt include, in English, the selections of the voter. Receipt also has a bar code hash of the votes placed. I receipt prints to customer, the second prints to a secured receptacle, either within the booth itself or elsewhere in the polling place. Receipt also has a randomly generated receipt number printed on it (this is important).
3. At a statistically significant random sample(I took stats in college, but not my forte), select precincts, voting machines (some verifiable entity) and optically read the receipts (remember the bar code) and compare to the computer total. Significant variances? Recount, revote, whatever. This must be done under independent supervision (not like the Ohio 3% recounts). Again, this technology is cheap, readily available and fast.
4. Remember the randomly numbered receipt number? Okay, now allow VOTERS to go to a website, enter their receipt number and review/verify their OFFICIAL vote online. No violation of the secret ballot because there is no tie between the voter and the random number generated AND allows voters to exercise their right to vote with reasonable certainty that their vote was counted.
Now, is this free? No. But you could walk into a Stapes right now and buy a receipt printer and a bar code reader real cheap.
Make democracy transparent.
For those not aware steelthing made a hefty contribution to Plame House for which all FDLers are very appreciative.
[Mod Note; The Mods are very appreciative too. Thank you.]
Brinkley talking about PNAC !!
Eli, I’m sorry because this is going to be WAY off-topic, but I’ve been at work all day and we’re not allowed to blog from there, so….
FITZ!!!! Justice!!! Wow!!!!
ahem
thanks!
Woodhall Hollow: I don’t know about that re: sympathy for Mrs. Libby (henceforth referred to as “the wife”). Certainly she could see the company her husband kept. What, she thought he was doing good deeds as Cheney’s henchman? I bet he brought home a nice paycheck and they drank the good booze and had plenty of filet mignon and luxury vacations. I could be wrong, but, I bet she knew the kind of slick lying manipulator she is married to.
I don’t understand why no one is mentioning Marcy’s most excellent book. A travesty!
Tweety making a special comment inspired by National Review. WH sold this war based on false information. Why did cheney let bush “testify” to congress about uranium.
The sound you hear is the sound of me falling to the floor from shock….
Rut ro, Tweety’s opinion “this case won’t bve closed till we get those bigger answers”!
AH KEITH is back!!!!!
OLBERMANN!!
KO is back on Countdown!!!
pwright at 168:
I doubt she knew he was lying while he was doing the lying. Though I do think that once she saw the indictment and went through the process of the trial preparation she must’ve figured it out and could well have even confronted him.
But I think that it is highly unlikely that he would confide in his wife (who he hardly ever saw given his 6 am to 8:30 6-7 days a week work schedule) that he was planning to lie to the FBI and then the Grand Jury, esp when he was pretty sure he would get away with it.
It looks like the whole show is Libby. . . . I hope
Go Keith.
3. At a statistically significant random sample(I took stats in college, but not my forte), select precincts, voting machines (some verifiable entity) and optically read the receipts (remember the bar code) and compare to the computer total. Significant variances? Recount, revote, whatever. This must be done under independent supervision (not like the Ohio 3% recounts). Again, this technology is cheap, readily available and fast.
How do we know the barcodes match the vote? The plain text could be Dem, but the barcode and the e-vote could be Republican.
Woodhall @ 186 – I agree she might not have know before he lied to the FBI. But let’s face it she may have and been all for it. Likely she wanted another four years for Bush Co. in the Fall of 2003 as the rest of them.
Yeah Elliot @126 you are definately right: Candidates are definately selected.
It seemed that for months, CNN has been teasing us with Hillary Clinton..’Oooh la la’ we all should be thinking, according to CNN, whennever another story comes out. Usually the tone would be something like ‘Clinton has said X. Some speculate she will run for president..’
For months of this buildup, finally she says she will run. No one is surprised, but CNN and others sure act like they are. Everyone knew, because it was beaten into our brains for the past few years.
And then, to add to the buzz, she slams Obama for some minor detail. Notice how the media loves a little false controversy – This little jab was discussed for a week on the mainstream media pages. Notice how Clinton’s little spats get so much time. When did you ever hear of VILSACK ever getting press time, except his initial announcement that he’d run?? Did we ever hear him say ‘Hey America, this is what I would like to see happen?’ Fuck no. He probably would have done his campaign a favor if he got in a fist fight with another democratic candidate – Apparently, that’s the only way CNN and other MSM will notice you.
Notice also, how Obama deftly dodged Biden’s little off-color graze. Obama dodged it, Biden tried to get it ignored ASAP, but the media loved to buzz around it. Let alone both cases had nothing to do with U.S. policies.
It’s ICON driven. Everything is about the candidate, NEVER about the issue, NEVER about the idea, NEVER about a law. We got these faces blasted on television, and false scandals dominating the television set.
I think media wants to see a Clinton vs. McCain run. I’d be more satisfied with Gore vs. Guiliani, but I must be dreaming.
new thread upstairs from Christy
I was meaning to do this earlier but I just looked at the reaction to the verdict at the Libby Legal Defense Fund site:
Seems like there is no cheer in Mudville tonight. The mighty Scooter has struck out.
I. Guilty
II. Guilty
III. Not Guilty
IV. Guilty
V. Guilty
If you rotate it 90 degrees, it’s a big middle finger. :)
carolyn urban…its hard to know how she viewed him when she married him. I have known an awful lot of really decent women who get themselves married to really slick operators. It is interesting that she married him when he was NOT in govt, so never imagined that he would not only throw himself, but her and her two children under the bus for the sake of Darth Cheney.
But from her behavior in the courtroom today, I think it would not be implausible to suspect that she is pretty pissed off at Scooter. She did not even touch her husband, but instead threw her arms around Wells, kissed him and told him she loved him. My guess is that Libby did not follow some advice from Wells re makiing a deal with Fitz (which she likely wanted him to do) and instead chose Cheney over her and went to trial.
Just my Jean Rhys (as Celtic Muse calls it) reading.
on poor Mrs. Libby:
Libby will be well rewarded for this, maybe not right away but just look at Ken Starr, in the end he did get his plush ocean-front job at Pepperdine
and Reagan got a nice chunck of change the minute he left office — two examples.
Who knows, Libby could get real lucky in the commodities market tomorrow.
3. At a statistically significant random sample(I took stats in college, but not my forte), select precincts, voting machines (some verifiable entity) and optically read the receipts (remember the bar code) and compare to the computer total. Significant variances? Recount, revote, whatever. This must be done under independent supervision (not like the Ohio 3% recounts). Again, this technology is cheap, readily available and fast.
Simple. Also take a statistical sample, read the barcode and compare to the “English” version. Do this with the human touch or with OCR (optical character readers) that recalculate the hash and compare it to the barcode. Plus you have the voters ability to check their vote independently.
CancerCures@190
AMEN to all what you said.
and the polls, the horse race. All the pundits ever talk about is who’s leading at the moment. Each one striving to be FIRST.
First to pick the winner, first to get the candidate to say s/he’s running.
I haven’t watched Timmeh in a long time because whenever he talks to a potential candidate, he spends way too much time trying to pin them down on whether or not they are gonna run. It makes me SCREAM!
Those people need to get out of town once in a while.
On topic — Brad Friedman has done some looking into Rush Holt’s voting reform bill and he is not 100% pleased. For mysterious reasons the paper bit is a receipt, not a ballot, in other words, the legal-and-binding thingy is the electronic vote, the one that you can’t see. He wants a paper ballot, can be machine counted, but he insists that the piece of paper should be the real deal. I agree, you may not, but please look at what he has to say about it. Note: It’s AlterNet not Brad Blog so it won’t hurt your eyes.
Woodhall Hollow: you could be right.
urban pirate,
We’re there!
at least our first stop, anyway.
sorry…
I am here solely to vote Silly Party…
carry on…
ps Eli,
you got a compliment on the last thread that was misdirected to me, see TheresapChicago@139
“Apparently so Elliott but thank you so much for your incisive commentary. I mean it. This has been a real education “
HotFlash- BradBlog now has an option for changing the viewing format- to something less eye-crossing- guess he finally caved in to complaints.
Hi VG,
I find even with the less ugly colors his layout is still a dog’s breakfast. But the content is usually spot on.
There are a couple of things we could do:
1) Push for constitutional amendments that would
A) Limit campaign periods to just that one year of election: no stockpiling of warchests over 3-4 years of campaigning;
B) Require that *all* advertising be defined as *paid speech* and not free speech, and that all paid speech be regulated for fairness and accuracy
2) Push the state legislators to pass those bills that would force Congress to debate impeachment hearings… just not impeaching Bush but instead impeaching Cheney.
and the polls, the horse race. All the pundits ever talk about is who’s leading at the moment. Each one striving to be FIRST.
First to pick the winner, first to get the candidate to say s/he’s running.
But, but, I only want to vote for the candidate who’s *winning*! I don’t want to waste my vote on some also-ran loser, who cares if he’s a stand-up guy and I agree with him on every single issue?
For mysterious reasons the paper bit is a receipt, not a ballot, in other words, the legal-and-binding thingy is the electronic vote, the one that you can’t see.
Oh, that not good. What’s the point of a recount if the results aren’t binding? I guess maybe the machine manufacturer loses their contract, but the damage is already done.
ps Eli,
you got a compliment on the last thread that was misdirected to me, see TheresapChicago@139
“Apparently so Elliott but thank you so much for your incisive commentary. I mean it. This has been a real education ”
Heh. I don’t think so.
There are a couple of things we could do:
1) Push for constitutional amendments that would
A) Limit campaign periods to just that one year of election: no stockpiling of warchests over 3-4 years of campaigning;
B) Require that *all* advertising be defined as *paid speech* and not free speech, and that all paid speech be regulated for fairness and accuracy
2) Push the state legislators to pass those bills that would force Congress to debate impeachment hearings… just not impeaching Bush but instead impeaching Cheney.
I like B in particular. I’m really sick of hearing Republicans equate money with speech – that’s just revolting.
HotFlash- Yes, BradBlog was my intro to the blogs. I hung out there quite a while. I got used to the format. At that time, it was anything goes, and it got to be troll land after a while. I just couldn’t take it, and as a reg. there, told Brad why. He disagreed at the time, but was gracious about it. We still have a very cordial relationship, and his blog is the very best on voting and election issues.
I like B in particular. I’m really sick of hearing Republicans equate money with speech – that’s just revolting.
yeah, that’s a mindset that’s got. to. go.
Why should Rupert Murdoch, who isn’t even a citizen, have a bigger voice in an election than me and you?
Well, if corporations can be considered people, then I guess it’s only logical that money can be considered speech…
Well, if corporations can be considered people, then I guess it’s only logical that money can be considered speech…
Non!
Just saying, if people can accept the first one…
To un-hijack this thread:
We wouldn’t be in this damned pickle, with criminals in the White House outing CIA agents, and slaughtering tens of thousands of innocent people, and torturing prisoners, and ripping up the Constitution, and robbing us blind, if it were not for rightwing Bushite electronic voting corporations gaining control of our election system, during the 2002 to 2004 period, with extremely insecure and insider hackable voting systems run on ‘TRADE SECRET,’ PROPRIETARY programming code, with virtually no audit/recount controls.
In Venezuela they handcount FIFTY-FIVE PERCENT of the ballots, cuz they don’t trust the machines. Know how much WE handcount? 0% to 1%, depending on the stranglehold that Diebold and ES&S have on local election officials and legislators.
It is OUTRAGEOUS that these electronic voting systems were fast-tracked all over the country, many with NO audit, and the best–the best!–with a meager 1% audit. This is NUTS. There should have been a 100% handcount from day one of use of these machines–until they were proven reliable. That there was not–and that there was not even the ability to handcount (no paper trail at all) in one third of the country, in 2004, invalidates that election as inherently fraudulent, even before you look at the exit poll studies, and all the other information that points to a Kerry win.
And this did not happen by accident. This WAS the fascist coup, in my opinion–”The Help America Vote for Bush Act” of 2002–engineered by the biggest crooks in the Anthrax Congress–Tom Delay and Bob Ney–with the direct collusion of Sen. Christopher Dodd, and assisted by the mind-boggling silence of the entire Democratic Party leadership, led by Terry McAullife.
With transparent vote counting nationwide, the vote suppression in 2004 could not have kept Bush and Cheney in power. The vote suppression alone could not have done it. It took a combination of the electronic tweaking of most of the battleground states over to the Bush column, and the theft of small percentages of votes here and there all over the country, to manufacutre and pad Bush’s national popular majority, to make it all come down to Ohio, then massive suppression of black and other Democratic votes in Ohio (which had not been fully Diebolded).
This is what the election fraud studies show. The theft took place all over the country, and was CAPPED by Ohio. And without that pervasive but hard to detect electronic fraud, the Ohio vote suppression–though nasty and bad–would not have made the difference. (And, on the other hand, the reversal of that fraud–if all Ohio votes HAD been counted–would have given Kerry a squeaker of a win, when, in fact, he won by a landslide. A good guestimate, by at least 5%, possibly more, nationwide.)
The massive amount of money poured into the Bush/Cheney coffers–by, among other entities, the CEO of Diebold (a Bush-Cheney campaign chair, and major fundraiser)–could not have kept Bush/Cheney in power. Grass roots Democrats–through internet fundraising–matched the Bush/Cheney fatcat contributions almost dollar for dollar–an amazing grass roots fundraising effort.
56% of the American people opposed the Iraq War, at the beginning, before the invasion. (Feb. ‘03) Those people were not fooled. 63% of the American people oppose torture “under any cirsumstance” (May ‘04). Those people were not fooled. And if you track opinion and issue polls over the last several years, you will see 60% to 70% disapproval of every major Bush policy, foreign and domestic. There was not enough support for Bush/Cheney to overcome the huge surge in new Democratic Party voter registrations in 2004, and the overwhelming revulsion of the American people at Bush/Çheney policy.
Yes, vote suppression is a huge problem. Yes, the filth in our campaign contribution system is a huge problem. Yes, the war profiteering corporate news monopolies are a huge problem. But we have never before seen PARTISAN control of the vote counting, using SECRET code in speed-of-light “black box” machinery, in our entire history. This was the coup de grace. This was NEW. This was the way to manufacture a fake endorsement for an unjust, heinous war, and for the criminals and thieves who perpetrated it.
WHY was there blatant, open violation of the Voting Rights Act in Ohio? Because they knew they would have immunity from the law. WHY did they out Valerie Plame and Brewster-Jennings? How could they imagine getting away with that? Because they knew that their buds at Diebold and ES&S were preparing immunity from public opinion, by stealing the 2004 election. WHY are Bush and Cheney so oblivious to public opinion? Because we did not elect them. They are not beholden to us.
It is very important to know how to prioritize what is important. Without the immunity that Diebold/ES&S confers, there would be no war in Iraq. (74% of Americans now opposed.) There would be no planning for a SECOND war. (84% of Americans opposed.) There would be no ripping up of the Constitution, and no more looting of the federal treasury, and destruction of FEMA, and the EPA, and the justice system, and all the rest. These are the behaviors of office holders who feel no accountability to the American people, and why they feel that way is the unprecedented power they hold over the counting of our votes.
In 2006, the American people–infuriated by all this–outvoted the machines, to try to get themselves a half-decent Congress. But Congress is STILL not very representative of the American people, and the vote counting is still nearly completely non-transparent. Isn’t it obvious what is goiing on here? It’s not primarily money, nor media, nor vote suppression. It’s the NON-TRANSPARENT vote counting by rightwing Bushite corporations, which, by my estimation, are putting a 5% to 10% “thumb on the scales” for Bushites, warmongers and corporatists. That’s our handicap. That’s what we have to outvote–added to all our other handicaps.
And ES&S, by the way, is even worse than Diebold, on connections to far rightwing causes. Together these two, Diebold and ES&S, counted 80% of the votes in 2004, under a veil of corporate secrecy!
This is the crucial difference between a democracy and fascism. Our democracy is certainly compromised by filthy campaign money and all the rest (vote suppression, corporate media, gerrymandering et al). But it is not destroyed by it. Non-transparent vote counting, in the control of rightwing corporations, DESTROYS our democracy. It is drawing its last breaths, right now. And this is the critical lever of power that MUST be restored to the people: OPEN, TRANSPARENT vote counting, vote counting that everyone can see and understand, and the elimination of ALL secret code from our election system.
This is not going to happen, as the result of Holt’s bill. Holt’s bill is already terribly compromised. On a scale of 1 to 100, as to increasing the transparency of our system, it is maybe a 2. What they are intending to do is to lard Diebold, ES&S and brethren with billions more taxpayer dollars to “fix” an election system that they deliberately broke. They will band-aid it up, with a “paper trail” and a measly 2% audit, leaving the secret code in the optiscans and the central tabulators, and the result will be that the people still have to prove who didn’t win an election, rather than election officials/corporations have to prove who did.
I can’t be against a 2. A 2 is better than a O. But on a scale of 100? How transparent is that? You tell me why our Democratic leadership is still farting around on the critical matter!
Back to election reform –
My wild-ass idea is this: as soon as a person is elected to Congress, they CEASE to have a party affiliation. No such thing. No R or D beyond the state level. They can be “conservative” on some issues and “liberal” on others, “centrist” wherever.
THEN, each re-election campaign is at least a three-way race: there is the Incumbent, and the challengers put up by parties in the home state. PLUS, everybody in the country gets to vote in EVERY Congressional election, on whether the Incumbent keeps his/her job — because once in Congress, the Congressperson’s actions and decisions affect the life of the entire country.
Elections would happen this way: People in the home state vote for the Incumbent or one of the challengers. People outside the home state vote for the Incumbent, a challenger, or “State,” which means their vote is added to the count of whoever wins the home state race.
My wild-ass idea is this:
(Not very well formed, as you will see)
It’s kinda like gambling. You get elected, you serve, if you suck, you pay. I mean money back to the funds to elect someone better.
I see that congresscritters need to be paid for serving. It’s obvious that there needs to be money involved in running for elected office. But there should be consequences for sucking at it. And money talks.
The following is an excerpt from a letter I sent my congressman, Jim Cooper (d) dist.5 tn.
…The issue on my mind right now is voting. I want to know why the process of voting is so utterly disrespected in our country. What I mean is, every time I have voted (every election in the last 25 yrs), I have done so with practically no idea of who the people offered to me as candidates are, and if I do know their names (incumbents) I’m still so ignorant of what they do in office I feel like I’m voting for “a pig in a poke” as the saying goes. In addition of problems to informed choice, I have been appalled at the condition of the polling place. It’s always in some elementary school gym or similar underfunded place,with machines that look very temporary and reek of easy vote theft and abuse, staffed always by senior citizens, (bless em’ for volunteering) who have no idea if you ask them a question that they don’t expect. The whole process is so”temporary”. Kinda “fly-by-night”, here today, gone tomorrow. Almost like a scam to give people the idea that their vote actually counts, but not really. (And a very low budget scam at that!). Why are we so disrepected? Voting and violent rebellion are the only way we have of speaking as one together, the latter being the most repulsive state of affairs imaginable.
I have an idea.How about a permanant location in every precinct where we can go year round to check up on our elected officials activity in office. A place where reliable, vetted, information is provided on any who seek to serve. a place where I can get educated beyond 30 second t.v. commercials, in a calm deliberative way at my own convenience. Able to make my decision with some amount of confidence that I know what I’m doing. A place and process that will validate my citizenship and give me self respect as a real participant.I imagine a place open year round and staffed with knowledgable, dedicated professionals, who are well paid and non partisan. A place where people can have political rallies in their own neighborhood, with people they know. Or a place to talk politics on neutral ground with whoever might be there for the same reason. Talk about bonding together as Americans! A place with no locks on the door, open to the public 24 hrs a day. Indeed a place to honor the public and our democracy. A place where voting is not a temporary fly-by-night affair. I bet we’d have a lot more serious participation if people could feel invested with knowledge that they do count after all. A place to monitor the votes and activities of their politicians at any time, day or night. Don’t you think a little accountability is overdue?
It never ceases to amaze me what a difficult time we have counting votes when we can count money better than anyone else in the world.A permanent place in every precinct would make recount much easier, as the people working there would have peofessional pride in their own site, and intimate knowledge of it.(these people should be locally autonomous, untouchable by the feds)
So many other things get so much more attention, like fire and police stations, courthouses, libraries, even parks get more attention than voting. Why is voting left in the gutter to fend for itself? Just consider the effect on campaign finance if a candidate need not turn to commercial (corporate) t.v. to present their views? Talk about saving money and time.You guys could spend more time on the peoples business and less time chasing money and selling tax breaks to the highest bidder (no offense). Sure it’ll cost money, and it’ll be money well spent for a change. So what do you think? I think it’s well worth developing the idea and offering up a bill to the house. Mr. Cooper our democracy has very little credibility among the general public. The federal government is seen as the property of big business by just about everyone, even non-americans. It’s such a shame and a disgrace. We really must do something about it. Not just for our own sake, but to show others the way who are looking for an alternative to tyrany. Isn’t that what america is about?
very sincerely, yours truly
An aside here. One of the most important elements of an election is the press. In this country, the MSM has totally failed us. The blogs are taking care of this, nicely, thank you very much, thanks to a number of people (we all know who they are, because their names are above their bylines). And when I thank Lady Jane and Christy, I also inclued all the other people who post on this and all the other blogs. They are helping keep this nation free. They are slowly forming, and replacing the Msm. Eventually the big advertising will come here, and some of their reporters, and then the Wapo and the Grey Lady will become empty buildings…just as any “news” source that doesn’t serve the public. Keep it up, folks we (you, not me, I’m not a writer) you are fast becoming the msm. Just remember the trust we all place in you. Now if we could just snag Froomkin. Hmmmmm. Dan…..? Pen names have all sorts of uses. You could even quote yourself!
Hi, Eli!
One of my friends has proposed this version of campaign financing regulation:
1. No limit on donation amounts.
2. All donors must be natural persions (that is, can get a driving license or a Social Security card).
3. All donations are reportable (no matter what size).
Zero chance of enactment, of course.
Eli, good post, well thought out. We desperately need election reform. Add me to the list who thinks a holiday is a good idea.
I’d happily give away eating turkey and watching football to give thanks to fair voting…
and, ahem, err…..Fitz!
One of the most important elements of an election is the press. In this country, the MSM has totally failed us.
Agree completely. It was the subject of my previous post, and was much more prominently featured in an earlier draft of this one.
Unfortunately, solutions are somewhat hard to come by, and I’m not convinced that the blogs will ever be able to overthrow broadcast media, which can be passively consumed, even while doing other stuff. But as you say, they might be able to compete with or even replace print media, especially the online editions.
1. No limit on donation amounts.
They have a lot more gazillionaires than we do, and it would make us little people even more insignificant than we are now. If I really sucked it up and tightened my belt, I could probably contribute just as much to a presidential campaign as Lee Raymond or Jack Welch. But if you take the cap off, I might as well not even bother.
So, about that thread topic…
The money supply is sucked up by the money demand. A senator has to raise thousands a day to run the next campaign. Many of them hate the strap-on cash register but have to wear it anyway. (It straps on the back, I mean!)
If the money demand drops, the motive to take the supply will drop, and some politicians will behave a little cleaner, because they will have the option.
We have already been down the ‘choking the money supply’ route: there are tons of precedents behind “corporate speech is free speech”. Doing public financing of campaigns with everyone capped at the same amount will not fly in the courts. However, trying it for one election before it gets reversed by the Supremes would be illuminating enough.
But really, to me, the problem is that campaigning costs too much: it has to drop. Apparently some countries ban all campaigning until the last few weeks before the election. This would cut the annoyance factor as well.
That’s all I got.
Craig Shergold @
220
Ah, but what if candidates don’t have to choose between public financing and their own fundraising? It could be used as a supplement to greatly reduce their fundraising pressures, but they can still opt to raise extra if they want.
i did my part for public education. Started a new wiki article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Collins
Eli,
I think your spending cap idea is a good one. I also think that we need to put a time limit on campaigning. Our elected officials have no time to serve because they start getting ready for the next election immediately.
peterr:
Just popped in to say that I sure didn’t miss your article, having been much impressed with last week’s comments on the state of the MSM.
The same problem is currently a hot topic in the UK, thanks especially to the current “cash-for-honours” scandal.
The Tories (conservatives) have proposed a 50000 UKP individual donation limit, which would suit them very well, since the great majority of their income comes from middling-wealthy individuals and businesses who rarely give more than fifty grand, whereas New Labour rely on a small number of much larger donations from trades unions and from the superrich.
My own favoured donation limit would be 1UKP per person per year (with 1UKP added to state benefits so that no-one, however poor, is excluded from, or ignored by, the political process, and with a ban on all donations from organizations).
Since that’s not going to happen, we must all remember that continued freedom of internet speech (net neutrality, etc.) is the paramount issue to anyone who hopes to see genuine democracy re-emerge from the ruins of the now-self-destructing ‘Best Democracy Money Can Buy’.
I wish we could implement curbnoise’s idea at #175. K.I.S.S. applies.
Good article here:
People are electing candidates who shun corporate cash