
(Possible artist's conception of a jury room near you.)
So, here we all sit. Waiting for the jury. Wondering what is going on with deliberations. Wondering when we'll get a verdict. Wondering whether we'll get a verdict any time soon. Trying to be patient. Yep. Yepppers…
ARRRRGH!
Ahem. Okay, so honestly, I've waited for a lot of juries — and the legal beagles in the audience can back me up on this: they finish deliberations on their own speed, and it's best to busy yourself with other things while you are waiting. Otherwise, you drive yourself crazy with all the "what ifs."
Sure, we've heard all about the multiple notes requesting post-its and flip charts and pens and all. I have to say, I agree with Jane's theory:
…the thing that was happening to the jury is what happened to people on the blogs who got into this story — they got addicted to it. They're busy sorting through the details, peeling back layers of the onion, fascinated by the process of mutual discovery as they explore the characters and events that led up to the trial. Pach said in his shrinky expert opinion that this made a lot of sense.
Of course, with the following caveat, which is that you never know what is going on inside the jury room and, more often than not, whatever you are thinking ends up being completely wrong or completely right — but for different reasons altogether than you could ever have imagined. But I think back to when I first started following this investigation, how little things in the newspaper articles just weren't adding up for me in terms of how I knew investigations normally worked. How so many of the players involved in this were sending out their own, personal brand of spin into the conventional wisdom ether — and how it wasn't matching up, fact-wise, with everyone else's spin.
And I recall the first time I sat down with a marker and some poster board and made a timeline, complete with post-it note add-ons during an especially long nap of The Peanut's because none of what I was reading was making any sense in the context of everything else that was swirling around the outside edges of the political bubble that is Washington. Boy, was that a revelation. (Unfortunately, it was also destroyed by a large cranberry juice spill and a dachshund that decided to tango in it on the kitchen floor…but it was a truly useful timeline while it lasted.)
Yes, I have shamefully lived the life of post-it addict following this case — my sheaf of legal documents, with their reams of post-it notes sticking out the side of questions on different aspects and footnotes in the respective filings piling up on my kitchen table.
And I can certainly see the jury getting to that point as well, especially if this is their first real exposure to anything involved in this case. Just the court intrigue alone within the Bush Administration itself — the WH versus the Veep's office versus…well, you get the idea. There is an old adage about seeing legislation put together being like watching sausage being made (Eeew! It's icky — trust me.), and getting this inside peek at how the Bush White House points fingers in every direction but at themselves when the chips start flying? That has to be an eye opener to the non-political folks on the jury, all by itself — and it takes a while to allow that to sink in, I'd suspect.
Or maybe they are just meticulously going through every piece of evidence and doing their duty to ensure that a just verdict is rendered under the law.
In other words, trying to second guess the jury always ends up getting you stressed out, for no particular reason. So, I'm trying to take the zen approach and say to myself that the jury will finish when they finish, and that is the end of that.
The other day, I shared that I was listening to a little Coltrane (and Monk) while I waited. I've moved on to some soothing Yo-Yo Ma cello concertos. What are you doing to pass the time? (I mean, besides hitting the refresh button.)
Related posts:
- Washington Post: Rove More Involved in US Attorney Firings Than He Claims
- The Huffington Post Is Drinking the Washington Post’s Milkshake
- Washington Post Continues to Make Brauchli Soup
- Froomkin v. Washington Post — The Battle Continues
- Cheney Interview: Washington Post Losing Its Ability to Report, Too





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FITZ!!
MONK!!!!
TRANE!!!!
Fitz!
Christy!
Please jury, hurry up!!!
EPUed!
Ooh! This may have already been posted, but it’s news to me…
Via thinkprogress.org, the Plame story is becoming a movie – for reals!
Plame film in the works
Warner Bros. have secured the rights to tell Joe & Valerie’s story. Zucker is co-producer. This should be great.
Hurray for the dachshund tango
What am I doing, Christy? Reading your post and wishing you had told me the VERDICT!!!!!
And compiling code at work. Really. Working. I swear.
For all the latest Libby trial news, legal documents, timelines and other essential materials surrounding the Bush administration’s outing of covert CIA operative Valerie Plame and its politics of payback against Joseph Wilson, see:
“The CIA Leak/PlameGate Resource Center.”
Hi Christy! All is well.
Mornin’ Christy. I so agree with you about not knowing what is going on with the jury. After 30 years I don’t even pretend to have a clue and tell my clients that they can make no inferences from any jury questions or even how long deliberations are taking. You just can’t know.
Thanks again to the whole FDL crew for great coverage. I hate to think of how many lost billable hours your readers (including me) have amassed since the trial started.
That’s what I want to think, but sometimes fear that most of them are hammering away at one or two obstinate jurors.
They do seem thorough and thoughtful, and that is good for our side.
Also, I just got off the phone with the Surgical Oncology department. I had surgery to remove malignant melanoma last week, and praying they got all of it, and that the margins are clear. They were supposed to have known on Monday.
They had to send out for “special stains” and the results are still “pending.” SO, I am waiting on two verdicts, and probably my tension about my own little cancer thing is bleeding over into this.
I wish I had your zen, Christy.
I want my mania from esterday back, today is just depressing the shit out of me
MA! Got to meet him backstage once after he played an incredible recital. He’s very modest and friendly, unlike many other hyper-talented musicians. You might get his new Vivaldi cello concertos album.
gabbly
Gabblying.
Ouch – new poll puts Bush approval rating at 29%.
Christy, I take it you’ll be up for Marcy and Rayne’s office supplies support group.
As I said yesterday, it looks like we’ve got eleven Plameologists in the jury room.
The Bach cello suites (obPedant, they ain’t concertos) are gorgeous, late discoveries, and it’s always fun to find echoes of them in other Bach works. I don’t think YYM’s renditions are as good as Casals’, or some other modern versions, but chacon a son whatnot.
Me, I’m spring-cleaning to mediaeval music from al-Andalus.
JoyB @
13
Good thoughts for an “all clear,” JoyB.
Good luck, Joy. Snowing hard here in Maine today. Good day to wait…
Just trying to make an effort to get actual WORK done while waiting for the jury to return. It’s difficult, being distracted and all, but when you get on a roll all this Libby stuff leaves your brain for the duration.
Meanwhile, while we await a verdict,
the Swiss Accidentally Invade Liechtenstein.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00334.html
Would have loved to be on the border for that one :)
Headline at Raw Story: Rice engineered by human genes OK’d– anybody else reading hope for US diplomacy there?
(((((((JoyB)))))))
We’re rooting for you.
xoxoxo
JoyB – good luck. I hope you get very good results back soon.
Do you know what the jury is wearing today? Just wishful thinking of course!
JoyB
I can feel your pain. I had a lab loose an HIV test once, but didn’t admit it for a week, just said there was no result in. The waiting was unbearable.
Good thoughts going out to you.
What country is Cheney hiding in today? How long can he run?
Christy that is a perfect picture; it made me laugh out loud. Your writing is wonderful.
egregious at 10 — Hope you are having some courthouse fun today. And that the A/C is working in the media room. *g*
LOL!
When I first started coming here and getting addicted to the Plame case I was constantly amazed at Janes knowledge of the details.
I pictured her in an office covered with sticky notes, open file cabinet drawers stuffed with notes and two computers.One for the Plame case timeline and one to post on FDL with,as one couldn’t possibly have enough memory for all of her musings.
I am probably not that far off……….
Tithonia at 32 — I figured everyone could use a giggle this afternoon. I know I needed one — and I’m used to waiting for a jury to come back…
Things to do when you are bored
Finally, proof that Tony Blair has been a wanker since he was a spry young lad.
What would David Broder think?
-GSD
I’m dealing with a dog with gut troubles. Since I live in a condo, I have to take him out whenever he looks anxious. About every 30 min or so. The carpet is taking a terrible beating and so is the Bissell. Apart from that, I’m just hitting refresh.
Pseud at 21 — Thanks for the reminder. I have a Cassalls CD of the Back concertos as well. Will have to listen to that this afternoon. :)
Hi Christy!
Well, after yesterday’s toxic thread (the Mary Cheney one) and today’s conspiracy thread I’m hoping we can keep this one relatively weird-free.
I’m listening to Rickie Lee Jones right now and thinking that if she were an actress, she’d play Jane in the movie.
JoyB -Things will work out fine.
Plame case movie in works on huff post. link.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..42433.html
Good Luck on those results JoyB
don’t make any inferences from the time the labs are taking, either…
We’re with you on both results.
Hugs
Jane is quiet…….. a tete a tete with Fitz, perhaps…….
I never hit hitting the refresh button (more than once every minute or so). I’m following the canned US attorney story over at TPM. Which liar will be next?
Most juries want to pack it in by Friday. This jury is baffling me and I am starting to become paranoid. Could there be a mole from each side (the gov’t and the CIA) in this jury? OTOH, they have not said anything to Walton about any roadblocks.
Sounds like your dachsund has been hanging out with TBogg’s bassets.
I’m trying to stay cool, trying to work, trying to maintain an even strain…
JoyB, here’s hoping the margins are clean as a whistle! My husband had one taken off his nose, and it was zero on the fun-o-meter, but all is well now. May you have the same luck…
So, here’s a question while we wait…. if the jury is so serious about its deliberations, why hasn’t it asked Walton yet about whatever term it needed defined by the dictionary?
You know, I think I’ve hit my limit. I’m going to go cut some cheek scrolls (doesn’t hurt them a bit — they’re wood) and carve a rose and leave the Schroedinger’s jury to their box.
If they acquit, *then* I’ll go on a rampage.
BTW, if people want to use their wait time for a good cause, Brad Freidman has a good post about election reform at AlterNet. He says the Holt bill is seriously flawed.
My biggest worry about the time the jury is taking is that the longer they take, the further away they are from Fitz’ closing rebuttal. “Give the truth back” is powerful stuff. I hope it is emblazoned on their souls.
egregious @ 20
may I join? I admit… I’m an addict.
A question if I may. Can a Jury recommend that an idictment be issued against a third party i.e. Dirty Dick.
Actually that link doesn’t say it on the case per say, just Plame.
Gary @
25
You see? It could happen to anyone.
Nina Simone is keeping me sane, so far
Christy Hardin Smith @ 33
They brought us a fan.
I love fans :)
EPU’d from last post:
I should also like to add that if I were going to assign an archetypal image to this jury it would be Tolkien’s Ents. Talking everything over very very slowly and amiably without regard to time.
Hi Christy-
As an old lawyer i do agree with your post for the most part. However I think you will agree that there comes a time in every trial (and yes, its usually arbitrary and varies from trial to trial) where EVERYONE starts asking just what is going on here. I think that we’re getting close to that point here. I would have felt a little better if the jury request yesterday had been prefaced with “If we don’t reach a verdict tomorrow,…” Also, the lack of any communication with the Court, with the exception of the office supply requests and the one question that the jury apparently answered themselves is, at this point in the deliberations, at the least a tad peculiar. The question though, is how many days are going to be felt as ‘too long’. 10? 15? 30? At some point, eyebrows have to be raised. I just think that some of us have reached that point. Its not a moment of panic for me here, but the request yesterday, with absolutely no indication that there is any problem or hinderance to the deliberations did give me a moment’s pause.
Also, FWIW, the one thing I do worry about is that now we have another weekend for a juror to read or discuss something that he or she shouldn’t and then we’re down to 10 and have to start all over again.
Best wishes for you Joy, and God be with you.
Okay, never did any criminal cases . . .
nothing terribly high profile and no, haven’t followed this as rigorously as all y’all have (thank you for doing so, though, you’ve become an isle of reality in a sea of Annitney Nicole-Brown Smimpspears), but what is sooooo freaking complicated about the story?
1. Deft claimed he didn’t “know” until Timmeh told him. Timmeh testifies – I never did.
2. Others testify Deft told him about “her” weeks before Deft and Timmeh talked.
3. The VEEPs handwritten notes underscore that this entire mess was not some forgotten kettle on a remote, plugged in hot-plate in the basement -front burner stuff, man. It’s not like they were spending their Summer, 2003 on something all encompassing like, say a comprehensive post war recovery plan for Iraq
Is that a post-it note in your pocket, or are you just happy to convict me?(/Scooter)
Oh Christy that photo is hilarious!
JoyB-Good thoughts, strength and hope flowing your way. ;-)
I think I’m gonna buy egregious some food. Sure appreciate her coming down here today.
Thank you all so much, Christy, Jane, EW, Trex, Swopa, Pach, all you patient mysterious Mods, for continuing to entertain and inform your gathering hordes of hungry (for justice) fans. I’m so grateful each and every time you post, and post again. I’m on the west coast so I know that I only have to make to eleven o’clock today. When the jury is released I can let my refresh button finger relax and go on with life.
In the meantime, thank you for being there, thank you for eagle-eyeing every little detail and then feeding it to us. That paypal donate button has become like tithing to me. Clicked with much love and gratitude.
Have a wonderful weekend everybody.
JoyB at 13 — As someone who had that similar sort of wait for results from a lump removal a few years ago, I just wish I were there to make you a nice cuppa tea and give you a hug. Hang in there, but do take good care of yourself while you wait. You matter a lot — the results will be what they will be — but, in the meantime, you deserve good things. So be sure to give yourself something good today.
I spent the morning digging through unfiled paperwork to find something – good results. Unfortunately, my office is a disaster, and I have clients coming in a couple hours. Oh, and i haven’t taken that shower I said I was gonna take before 10… drat, it must be still before 10 somewhere in the world. ;)
I’ve been studying a lot of music for upcoming concerts, so I have variety of Bach cantatas in my head (202 in particular at the moment), plus a myriad of orchestral excerpts. I found a terrific recording of a group from Stuttgart of Cantata 202 – a gorgeous and fun performance of this secular cantata. Of course, the recording doesn’t relax me because it reminds me how much work I have to do in the next week and a half.
I’m starting to think I should spend my lunchbreak playing some really silly music like The Red Elvises while cleaning up the office. (You should be aware that they are your favorite band). Nothing like goofy Russian surfer music to get you motivated to take on the day.
What am I doing to pass the time? Looking for stories like this. From AP:
My bold. Yeah, right.
GSD @ 37 — (wonderful juxtaposition with 38 about poodles’ messes, hein!)
Sad but one did not need this evidence. Makes me momentarily embarrassed to be Scots.
The UK Parliament is as gutless as the US Congress, perhaps more so, because it really can get rid of a PM. It takes just a lost Vote of No Confidence on a financial bill or a specific purpose and under the Constitution the Bum can be Thrown Out. Bliar’s lie was even more direct than bush’s. Bliar categorically declared that Saddam could attack Britain at 45 minutes notice and therefore “Please give me permission to attack him first!” That lie could have had Bliar out long ago if Parliament was not so gutless.
HotFlash @ 49
just out of curiosity, what’s a cheek scroll?
I’m working (theoretically). Looking at computer screen with lines drawn across aerial photos. “You put it where??” or more usually “It goes over here, guys.” (The joys of working in the ‘department of where’.)
To see my Scooter post-it pic, click at the link.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9…..407816026/
Jane Hamsher @
64
Ditto that! Thanks for picking up my slack, eg!
nonna @ 46
Funny you should say that. And everybody involved has undercover investigators so it’s not quite so paranoid as it could be.
And so many of the govt depts have that schizo feel to them. Good CIA (Valerie, Larry Johnson, etc.) vs bad CIA (kidnappings and renditions), good DOJ vs bad DOJ, and we don’t know who is who or what’s going on. I complained last night that I keep thinking I’m seeing a yowly, squirmy bag that has two cats fighting inside it, and I don’t know where to whack.
HotFlash @ 49
Nice one, HF!
The question becomes: if we let Schroedinger’s cat out of the bag, do we get a pig in a poke?
pseudonymous in nc @
21
Bach’s Suites for Unaccompanied Cello, as realized by Yo-Yo Ma! The music we chose to play during the birth of both our kids.
I predict that after the verdict, these 11 people are going to be the most valuable PR machine against the Bushies that they have experienced to date. Because these apolitical types will have it all figured out and can give an unbiased, non-partisan, expert opinion on this case.
That is, unless the Bushies force them to STFU after they’re done.
As for music, I find that the best things to listen to while I’m working are CDs with lyrics in foreign languages. I have a theory about multitasking and brains. In my brain, I have a lot of elves (or in the linux world, daemons). Each elf has a specific area of expertise or task. For instance, I have Reference Elf. His job is to go to the archives in the basement and fetch the thing that is on the tip of my tongue. I give him the order and turn my attention to something else. When he finds the information, he rushes up the stairs with it, hands it to me and I usually blurt out the answer. This is inconvenient when it happens in the middle of the night or during a meeting but it does allow me to concentrate on other things.
So, getting back to music. I have a rather dominant elf, Lyrical Elf, who likes to sing to music. When he gets manic, he sings Candyman or something annoying. I’m sure we all have an elf like this. He just gets on a song jag and there’s no getting him off of it. So, when I play music at work, he listens way too attentively for the lyrics and then he sings them, audibly, I’m afraid. It’s very distracting. So, I’ve gotten around this problem, temporarily, by playing only music that I can’t understand. This is great in a couple of ways. I get exposure to new foreign sounds and it keeps my other music elves entertained while it baffles my Lyrical Elf. Lyrical Elf still listens but the lyrics have no meaning so he doesn’t try to sing along.
Anyway, if you have an elf like that and don’t want distractions but still like to be entertained, I recommend the following CD’s:
1.) Wizard Women of the North- This CD is a compliation of songs and folk music from Scandinavia. All of the musicians are women. There’s a wide variety of sound and Some of the sounds are very unusual. Highly recommended. I play this a LOT. But I might have to retire it because Lyrical Elf can sing Miksi Ne Neijot now in Finnish even though he has no clue what it means. I hope it’s not obscene.
2.) Shri Durga by DJ Chebbi i Shabbah (?)- This is a CD of beautiful remixed Indian ragas and ambient sounds. It includes a soaring Muslim call to prayer. I love this CD because the Lyrical Elf doesn’t even attempt to sing it. The other musical elves are carried away to India with red and orange colored music refreshed with splashing water and tinkling glissandos.
3.) Water, the soundtrack- The music from this Oscar nominated film has an East meets West feeling. There is a haunting sound track, punctuated by what sounds like Indian pop music. The music is emotional and progresses from sadness to anticipation to exultation to joy to hope. Very nice.
how about if the jury cuts to the chase, renders a clear verdict on the narrow charges (one to our liking) and then, to analyze the big picture, reconvenes as a book club, reading and discussing Anatomy of Deceit?
I’ve been on one jury in my life, and it ended up hung after several days of deliberation.
It was a civil suit, one insurance company sueing another, for the recovery of five million dollars.
The case turned on a faxed rental agreement, with the boilerplate on the reverse side, saying the renter of the dump trailer would be responsible for all liability — no hard copy was delivered, the back page wasn’t faxed, and there was a really bad accident that left a Colorado National Guardsman disabled. A pickup truck caused the accident, but the big ticket insurance company paid the biggest claim.
Anyway — when deliberations started, the jury was divided 3 to 3; I persuaded all but one that the contract was the contract, and pages and clauses that were not included were not part of the contract. (This was the original insurance settlement, btw — one company was trying to get their $5m from the other company.)
The one holdout could not be convinced that the second page wasn’t an implied or common sense part of page one, and we ended up hung.
After the trial, I told the defense legal team they had erred in their approach. They threw everything against the wall, to see what would stick — there was one handwritten part of page one, that really hurt the plaintiff’s case (the boilerplate would have rendered it moot, but the boilerplate never got delivered.)
It was an interesting experience, and I don’t think it was retried — we were dismissed on Monday, Sept 10, 2001.
This is behind the WaPo firewall, but it hints that Vickie thinks, or thought at one time, that leaks are crimes.
I’m trying to stay off my feet today after tripping over my labrador coming up from the computer room to bed in the dark last night and banging up my left knee. Luckily my dachshund was behind me at the time so it was just me and the lab involved tho the lab’s just fine this am. Grrr….
What are you doing to pass the time? (I mean, besides hitting the refresh button.)
Shoveling.
It was tricky, though: turkeys don’t vote for Christmas, as the saying goes, and in 2003 you had a combination of Tory support for the war, Blairite lickspittles who Never Question Tony, and anti-war Labour MPs who, ultimately, didn’t want to force a general election. Once Blair has gone, he’ll take away the nasty presidential streak he brought to British politics.
And the bedlam in Iraq continues. From AP:
Another thing to do: LEGO
Of course I have a soft spot for the LEGO harpsichord, but my favourite is CatWoman.
EPU’d from previous thread;
cinnamonape@190;
“That was related to keeping some of the material declassified for the Court available for a longer period…
What this DOES MEAN IS THAT FITZ HAS NO INTENTION OF WRAPPING UP THINGS AT THE END OF THIS TRIAL!!!”
Sounds right-on.
Can’t imagine any other reason he’d want to keep it declassified…
Does anyone know right offhand, just who is actually referenced or named in the material Fitz is making the motion about?
THE FUNNIEST PICTURE AND POST – EVER!!!!!!!
John Edwards Second Life HQ vandalized.
Fitz’s favorite song to dance and sing to at the office. Rock Lobster
Speaking of Post-it notes;
I just had an image of the scene in” Bruce Almighty” where the room is completely covered with them. One of my all-time favorite visual movie scenes. It is a work of art in and of itself.
Do you think the jury room looks anything like that? I can envision the jurors filing into the courtroom leaving a semi-sticky trail of yellow in their wake.
was it in the film Gross Pointe Blank that one of the characters claimed to have invented Post-Its, in order to impress people at the high school reunion?
Jane, avoid the cafeteria.
JoyB – waiting is tough. My fingers are crossed for good results for you.
Speaking of the US Attorney purge, prepare additional prison space.
The scandal-plagued Republican party.
-
punaise @ 90
No, it was Romy and Michelle’s High School Reunion. they nearly got away with it too.
I can certainly see how a jury could be fascinated by the look at the inside of one of the most influential Administrations in decades (that the influence was negative does not change that, although it does underscore just how bad things are these days for America both foreign and domestic and how extensive and long term the damage control and recovery will be) operates. I can even see them starting that same fever which hit many of us that noticed things were not adding up (although that was not me, I hit the roof the first time I read Novak’s article because of my family background to intelligence) as they see just how much what the defence is asking them to believe does not match up what the prosecution was able to establish beyond reasonable doubt. This note about the Cooper charge (which all seemed to agree was the most likely for acquittal/dismissal by the jury) makes me also agree with the assessment that implied they were not confused about the Russert charge and implied that they may well be leaning into conviction on those charges.
Even if they dismiss on all counts though the NY Observer article referenced in the preceding thread makes a very good point. The evidence of abuse of power that has entered the public record about Bushco, especially in regards to the Iraq war and how America got into this quagmire, leaves many places for a Congress to impeach (if they will, I personally think they should even given this is the last two years because of the potential for further harm AND the need to repudiate the Bush policies which have alienated the free world from America as well as the stains of dishonour and torture and secret prisons now on America’s “soul”/conscience), historians to not be snowed by the GOP/Bushco spin about the Iraq war, and hopefully exposure of the media machine that Bushco has used will weaken its ability to work now that the media tools have seen their disgraceful conduct and willingness to protect those that used them as tools to slime political opponents and whistleblowers entered in the public record by this trail whatever the outcome.
While of course I would prefer convictions on all counts I do take some comfort in how much this trial exposed about the inner workings of Bushco, especially during the initial aftermath of invading Iraq. I take comfort in the fact that there is a real public record of these disgusting actions, and that even if they manage to escape the criminal judgments they have coming to them they will not escape history’s thanks to this record. This after all, unlike the Presidential papers and government papers the Administration will seal away once it is gone from office will still be there and give many a place to find the threads they need to unravel various hidden aspects of this Administration’s foul and dirty deeds.
Well, patience is a virtue and my favourite author put out a new book that I got last night so I am going to keep calm and patient this weekend by reading it…:)
Have a good weekend folks and hopefully Monday is the day the jury comes back with guilty on all counts.
portia.vz @ 94
thanks. I think there was also a high school reunion in GPB…
QuentinCompson @ 93
Another great day to be in New Mexico, I’m so proud of my elected officials.
Dr. JEP’s prescription for music that soothes the impatient soul;
Mendelssohn’s violin concerto in E-minor, Opus 64…
Try it out on your jangled nerves.
pseudonymous in nc @ 82
Not too much backbone anywhere, you are right. There it can be re-visited any time, and with that titanium-spined new leader Cameron, the New Tories are not looking too strong, either. I have always wondered about PNAC/The Lobby connections between Straw/Mandelson/?Robinson as part of persuading Bliar to join in, and now there are Letwin and Kagan ‘Closely Advising’ Cameron. Now weren’t there a couple of Kagan blobs on the PNAC?
Ho hum!
Another way to pass time, pop the bubblewrap
punaise @ 90
It was the movie with Mira Sorvino and Phoebe (from “Friends”). Its name escapes me.
Just finished “Animals in Translation” by Temple Grandin. She writes about how non-human animals and autistic humans share certain perceptual tendencies, different from non-autistic humans, and offers some ideas as to why. Must-read if you know anyone with autism, or if you just love animals.
I just had to take a minute to try and tell you how I feel about FDL. I wish I was good with words like so many of you here… Then, I might be able to adequately express my appreciation to all of you for the work you do. To say ‘I love this site’ is such an understatement. I just don’t know how to say it so that you will understand what it is I get out of this place. You are all such a pleasure. So smart, funny, and nice. It is just tres’ cool to find people on the net who think like I do. Smart funny people who make me think and make me laugh at the same time.
Thank you FDL. Team and commenters alike.
I do so heart you all! ac
On Thursday night in a speech before an audience of conservatives, Darth Cheney’s take on Al Gore’s movie. From AP:
punaise @ 89
I think it was in Romy and Michele’s High School Reunion or something like that.
P J Evans @ 70
Hi PJ,
The sides of a harpsichord at each end of the keyboard are called the cheeks. They can be left straight or cut in a decorative pattern. The ones I’m doing today are similar to the sketch #1 (abt 1/2 way down the page)on a cherry and maple instrument going to Windsor.
The round goldy thing just above the sketches is our rose, each maker has their own design, it is a maker’s mark. The rose I’m doing today is a tiny one, for a small clavichord going to Montreal. More scrolls here.
Prairie Sunshine @ 81
And we can’t even shovel yet….10 to 15 in. today here in Maine.
Go Jane, Christy, et al.
music to find a calm center with:
bach “art of the fugue”
especially if you can find the version with anton batagov on piano.
yo yo ma’s “silk road orchestra”
where he collaborates with a lot of musicians from mongolia to palestine
yo yo ma and bobby mcferrin’s cd
keith jarrett’s “cologne concert”
keith jarrett, any of the “standards” cds (vols 1, 2, 3 etc)
and, if you want to attain a zen state of consciousness:
the kronos quartet doing terry riley’s “salome dances for peace”
by the end of that the jury will have spoken …..
We’re getting another foot here in VT, on top of the 40″ we got on Valentines Day.
Jeralyn Merritt @ 100
Jeralyn, apologizing for asking you to read tea leaves, what is your gut about the long and thorough jury deliberations? Does it favor defense or prosecution or is it just impossible to say?
Jeralyn Merritt @ 100
707 Jeralyn!
Margin problems?
aravir at 102 — I saw a wonderful article about her and that book in Discover magazine a few months ago. Keep meaning to pick up the book — the article was on her autism and the animal connections she discusses and it was absolutely fascinating.
And while we’re at it, let build ourselves a new nuclear (make that nukular) weapon. From AP:
The jury went into deliberations with Fitz’s words “give back truth” reverberating in their heads. Joviality notwithstanding, I think that’s exactly what they’re doing with the post-its and the flip charts. They are being very systematic in their deliberations. Common sense tells me that an acquittal would have been delivered the day after closing arguments, if they were so inclined. Fitz built such an overwhelming, ironclad case that this jury is now headed for guilty verdicts on (almost) all charges. Who knows? They could be wrapping it up AT THIS VERY MOMENT!
I could be just talkinouttamyarse, too.
good listening: Pat Metheny and Charlie Hayden – Beyond the Missouri Sky
(the lone you-tube I could find related to this is by a seven year old)
Cyn2 at 107 — Ouch! Hope you have plenty of canned goods and milk in the house (as my granny always used to check on those when we were expecting a storm…that and TP *G*).
JoyB, I left a message for you on the previous thread. And I send you good wishes re: the lab results.
I watched a special last night on PBS called Celtic Woman. The word beautiful was invented for that IMO.
It’s the second time I have seen it and it literally brought tears to my eyes.
They are coming to Portland in May.I may just clean up my act enough to try and get in the door.
um, is there a column definition problem?
OT – but with all the assurances that there will be no verdict today, everything is kinda OT.
Anyway over at Raw Story they have a piece about the demise of the anti-Olbermann website.
I’m always amazed at the things that can come out of the mouths of people who probably think Rush Limpbag and Falafel Billy O’ embody journalistic standards. I mean, if it wasn’t for the headline I would swear they are referring to Bill or Rush.
punaise @ 116
Ooh, great, great album.
Biodun @ 114
The US should be subjected to sanctions! I am sick of this warmongering and flagrant hypocrisy!
Best thoughts to you, JoyB.
Hotflash – what intricate work! Gorgeous!
If you deliver that instrument to Windsor, please let me know – if I’m free, I’d love to meet you for coffee.
I think I mis-understood who was sayin’ what, sorry!
Did the margins break on FDL? I’m getting a wide, wide central screen and no margins. Coul dbe me but I haven’t changed anything.
Please pass the cranberry juice…
Biodun @ 114
They need an atomic wedgie is what they need.
To all of you who blog here on FDL I want to offer my praise and thanks for prividing such insightful commentaries and fun keeping us all informed. My rage has been surpassed only by my awe of you all.
I have been lurking here and several other sites for a long time now and almost took up TRex offer to delurk the other night but couldn’t seem to call up the nerve.
While we all wait for the jury i would like some comments, hopes, projections, prophesies, etc on what a Scooter conviction will really mean, other than another year of appeals and maybe his butt in jail.
It seems so obvious to me that this was a Cheney orchestrated crime but given that there doesn’t appear to be a snowball’s chance on a hot Texas highway of doing anything about it, what will realistically happen after a verdict? Will Fitz do anymore? Will Congress do anything at all? I mean, So What! So we got one crony thrown in jail. That doesn’t fix anything unless Fitz or Congress does something.
Personally i think even if he’s impeached it will take the full army to physically remove Cheney from the VP chair since he’s insane enough to refuse to leave.
HotFlash, I like scrolls 1 and 3; 2 is a bit ornate for my taste.
Now if I had space, I’d like something like that instrument, but no room. (No budget either, but that’s another problem.)
Neil @ 126
Not just you. I’ve got issues, too.
JEP, did u ever get an answer to ur question at:
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..ent-534413
FDL looks funny out west here also, but everything is there, it’s just in different places – kinda vertically organized.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 113
Christy, my son has autism, so I try to read anything I can that helps me understand how he perceives the world. Her focus on how much scientific attitudes about animals have been centered in Skinner’s behavioral theories also applies to how many of autistic therapy models have been developed. And that increasingly seems a flawed way of viewing things. But, beyond that, she touches truths about animals and humanity which seem fundamental. I can’t recommend the book enough.
punaise @
116
Ah, Pat Metheny, a master at the guitar.
Here’s Darth, our leader of the war on terror and the war in Iraq, on militray service:
My bold. Other priorities, like getting drunk.
I have issues too; but I don’t have margin issues :)
My issues are marginal.
What to do while waiting? Well, actually now that you mention it, I have been just hitting the refresh button quite a bit. Or worse, walking around the house for a few minutes pretending to not think about it, then coming back to the computer and trying again. I’ll be suprised if I don’t get fired once it’s all said and done, because I’m just as bad at work.
So I decided to do something slightly more productive than taxing the servers, and follow the recent directive to de-lurk. Have been a major lurker here for what seems like a couple of years, and ain’t ashamed to profess practical hero worship for Jane and Christy; I credit this blog and the brilliant people who post here as being an important stalwart of democracy and justice. For the record, I think our side’s gonna prevail, even though the more lawyerly among you have advised not to predict.
Hmm, I feel like I’ve busted something. Don’t think I’ve ever posted anywhere before…
Oh yes, just for the amusement/coincidence factor of it, the new book I was referring to is titled “Hell Hath No Fury”, a perfect title for a book to distract me from a verdict which I hope shares the same sentiment against Libby. One can only hope…:)
LandOfTheFree @
6
am I the only one who really doesn’t care for this idea?
Biodun, that’s why I often refer to him as DickHead “other priorities” Cheney. Some people prefer DickHead “5 deferments” Cheney – both are acceptable usage.
Biodun @ 104
has anybody else noticed htat while most of the time Darth operates out of his “secret undisclosed location”, but during this jury deliberation he sure has tried to stay in the news….
Try refreshing the page and see if the margins come back.
Stephen Pitt has created another masterpiece on canvas titled “Fitz’s Dominoes.”
Mr.Murder @ 61
LOL!
I don’t have any “marginal” issues, so to speak.
Hey Owlspicious – welcome to the commenters club!
I agree with you that Cheney won’t leave office. I think he’ll be there until January 2008. I don’t actually think the Democrats will do anything to impeach either Cheney or Bush – they’ll just try to get some legislation passed to define limits on what Bush & Shooter see as unlimited executive power. The Democrats are hampered by not having a large majority in either house, so the smart move is to try and build consensus to change the AUMF, put parameters and benchmarks on war funding, and prevent an attack on Iran.
As far as future investigations… who knows. Jane gave what seems like a very reasonable opinion on Air America Radio the other night – if Libby’s convicted of any charges, it’s likely that Fitz will continue investigating Cheney. Fitz surely signaled that Cheney was behind this whole thing. But, if Libby’s acquitted on all charges, Fitz probably will not go forward with other charges. Although he likely has new evidence now, he might not have enough, if Libby gets off, to get Shooter.
For those who are wondering why the jury is taking so long, each of the 4 counts of lying have several specific underlying events upon which they are based and which are referenced in the indictment. So it is a lot more complicated than just yes-no on 5 counts.
If you would like to read the indictment, it begins on page 11 of the following pdf:
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/…..102005.pdf
I think the U.S. needs some serious military experience for the next presidency.
Yes, West, I think it’s a little too soon – It will look incredibly biased unless people wait at least a decade for all the correct information to settle.
But, it is a trick right outta the CIA playbook.
oops, in 147, I meant 2009 (after 2008 elections).
Owlspicious @ 128
I have been lurking here and several other sites for a long time now and almost took up TRex offer to delurk the other night but couldn’t seem to call up the nerve.
mr.shur @ 138
Welcome, Owlspicious (great name!) and mr.shur – thanks for delurking!
LandOfTheFree @ 124
*blush* thanks, and I’ll give you a shout when we head to Windsor for sure.
Hey Christy-
If you would just make FDL into a radio station(FDL XM). We could all listen and still take down some wallpaper. It would help me out alot. If you could…
the sordid truth about Condi emerges:
Rice engineered with human genes OK’d
Agriculture Department
My God.
What have we done?
This is a great compilation of the crimes of Bushco and PNAC apropos of the last thread written by:
“Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal editorial page and Contributing Editor of National Review.”
more here:
http://www.informationclearing…..e17216.htm
Heres’ Darth, the Yale dropout:
My bold. An enchroachment on states’ rights? I’ll try to wrap my head around that one.
From in-Forum dot com, Fargo’s newspaper:
what students are doing while waiting for….
Still no verdict yet? Lovin’ it. Is Cheney back in his bunker yet? Or does he have to fly around the oceans of the world in a holding pattern until the verdict is announced?
LandOfTheFree @ 147:
…until January 2009.
Just catching up this morning.
I saw this from Marcy two posts ago:
“That said, with Judge Walton’s assurances that the jury isn’t going to come back with a verdict,…”
Did Walton give assurances that no verdict will be forthcoming today???
thx.
ot – but another good reason to hate these assholes. From Raw Story:
‘Shocking’ program could carve $60 million out of HIV/AIDS prevention budget over next three years
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0302.html
TiredFed @ 131
No, I think I PO’d most of the legal experts a couple days ago with a personal defense of “jury nullification” as a venue for covering a multitude of legislative sins that the legal system, as a whole, milks for big money…
Or maybe no one read my post, it was just epu’d…
Still would like to know, though…
Who’s in the classified info that Ditz wants kept declassified?
TRex @ 155
Letting the days go by/let the water hold me down
Letting the days go by/water flowing underground
Into the blue again/after the money’s gone
Once in a lifetime/water flowing underground.
portia.vz @
94
FWIW, the actual story of their invention is kind of amusing — a scientist at 3M accidentally created this incredibly weak adhesive, and the idea sat around for about 10 years as folks wondered what the heck to do with “an adhesive that doesn’t stick.”
Of course I meant Fitz, not Ditz, the d’s right beside the f on the keyboard, so no one jump on that it was just a typo…
punaise @ 154
lol, I saw the story and couln’t come up with the joke
Indyblue @ 89
Actually, I’m beginning to worry that it looks more like the shack beyond Russell Crowe’s house in “A Beautiful Mind.” You know, the one where he papers the walls with news articles that he thinks form a pattern about something or other….
I hope they’re not really trying to solve the mystery. Even Fitz doesn’t think he as all the pieces of the puzzle yet. All they need to decide is that Libby did indeed intend to hide some of those pieces from him.
The fact that the jury is not sequestered makes it less likely that they were even trying to finish before they have to leave today. Which is soon, isn’t it?
Okay, back to my professional attitude of calm patience….
cc in nm @ 161
No. He is guessing just like the rest of us. But possibly he has been around for more jury deliberations than we have.
mnlurker @ 142
I think it’s just his version of pacing.
Amy Goodman of Democracy Now interviewed Wes
Clark this week. This interview is being shown
Nationwide today.
Check on which of your local channels here:
http://www.democracynow.org/stations.shtml
Christy Hardin Smith: “possible artist”. Who knew?
Here’s how I spent yesterday waiting: First, I spent a couple of hours yesterday shoveling the snow out of a feller’s driveway here in northern California. For pay, no less!
Then I ran a couple of errands to get ready for a weekend trip. Couple more hours burned.
Then it was beer-thirty down at my favorite watering hole. Couple more hours burned, exercised “responsible” imbibement.
Came back home, got my afternoon FDL fix, no verdict, started breathing again.
Found news this a.m. that jury’s going home early, resumed breathing.
Weekend trip will keep my mind occupied enough to take a break from Libby trial obsession.
Whew! What a relief.
JEP @ 166
Did you also mean to say “wants kept classified“?
LandOfTheFree @ 147
It’s worse than that. He’ll be in office until January 2009.
Leslie;
I must have misunderstood, I thought Fitz wanted the information to REMAIN DECLASSIFIED so he could use it in “other” legal proceedings without having to declassify it again?
egregious @ 169
Wishing Walton would sequester the jury, bet they’d finish up in short order.
Funny, I just realized why there probably were so many journalists at the trial Wednesday (like Tweety). It was the last day of February sweeps for the networks. That’s why they were buzzing so much and wanted to be there – they were hoping to get a verdict that day and be at the courthouse for the scoop. LOL.
More gems from Darth:
My bold. Terrorists everywhere.
nomolos @
52
I don’t think that there’s a spot on the verdict form for that…and the jury is supposed to ignore and is likely unaware of, whether other indictments have, or have not been, issued.
A Grand Jury is generally the place where such suggestions are broached…as they are a) private, and b) issuing indictments already.
I’ve never heard a Petit Jury (i.e. Trail Jury) doing so.
JEP @ 175
Ah, okay, then I misread you – sorry. I thought the question was of wanting to declassify info that hadn’t been yet.
Strenuous objections as to the accuracy of the photo!There is stacks of space left on the ceiling!!
Could we spend more money on the miltary? Our military budget is OBSCENE. I believe we’re up to about $624 Billion per year not including the Iraq war supplementals.
The threats to our security do not come in the form of traditional warfare yet we spend an ungodly sum of money on traditional weapons programs such as missile defense and new nuclear weapons. Why do we even think that developing a new nuclear weapon is necessary… or even in our own best interest when it sets exactly the wrong precedent given our non-proliferation goals?
Our military expenditures make Americans (and the rest of the world) less safe, less wealthy and leave us in possession of fewer resources to address the needs of the common good at home and abroad.
Our leaders Bush and Cheney, have pursued a reckless and massively murderous pre-emptive war policy, which is in direct opposition of our American values and which was authorized by Congress based on fraudulent information provided by these same leaders pursuing war powers authorization from Congress in order to execute the plan defined by the Project for a New American Century.
Presenting fraudulent evidence to Congress is a criminal offense. The damages are enormous including 3,146 dead americans, 30,000 seriously wounded veterans, and over 600,000 dead Iraqi civilians. I call on Congress to perform its duty and investigate and impeach the most egregious criminal activity of this administration immediatly.
nonna @
46
Besides, if the jurors have learned anything from the WH characters in this trial it’s that
“FRIDAY IS NEWS DUMP DAY”
Taylor Marsh hits one out of the park wrt Shooter and Pakistan suddenly pulling the number 3 leader of the Taliban out of the hat!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..42468.html
Jane Hamsher @ 64
I always love it when somebody else cooks.
Happy to be here, call any time.
Sorry all, have been trying to get my post up for 15 minutes but the toobz are not cooperating. No news here from the courthouse…
Back from my swim, anything shakin?
Vertias 78 @10
About that zen you wanted
Drinking his morning tea
the monk is at peace.
Chrysanthemums.
Basho
Last installment from Darth:
My bold. It’s called eating your own words.
HotFlash @
73
Here the CIA would have the advantage…their positions would be covered and they couldn’t say “Judge, I work for the CIA”, or “I know Val Wilson from my work on penetrating foreign weapons smuggling rings”.
I suppose they could say something like “I’ve read up about all the details of the case” to get excused. But would they WANT TO?
may @ 181
I think this is the “before” photo. The “after” shot would surely be more complete.
Last quarter hour of today’s deliberations and then the jurors leave early, right?
cgreen @ 192
that’s our understanding
Hopefully the Judge will remind them to STAY AWAY from the media!
Biodun @ 189
My bold. It’s called eating your own words.
Being Cheney means never having to say you’re either wrong or sorry. That seems to be true of most of the Republican Party as well.
ReneND @ 153
We could do it like books on tape.
One of us could read out the posts and comments.
cinnamonape @ 183
Then again…maybe the jury is thoroughly contrarian and wants to slap the media for being so subservient to the cycle…and will punish them by releasing their verdict at 3:30 PM TODAY!
“No, I think I PO’d most of the legal experts a couple days ago with a personal defense of “jury nullification” as a venue for covering a multitude of legislative sins that the legal system, as a whole, milks for big money…”
This had nothing to do with the Libby trial, int his case, there’s no reason for a jury to “create” law in order to render a just verdict, because the laws that cover these crimes ARE just.
I was talking then about our drug laws, my point was that every jury is obligated to a one-word task, that being “justice.”
If they all agree the laws that apply to their particular case do not provide “justice,” they can create precendent, essentially nullifying existing law in favor of what they deem just.
But in this trial, the laws Libby broke are not only just, they are crucial for keeping our secret agents secret and our grand juries effective.
I don’t think there’s any verdict but “guilty” that represents justice in this particular case.
But if there are laws on the books that clearly do not promote “justice” in the mind of the “peer” public, then an intelligent and informed jury DOES have the power to ignore them, if they are all agreed.
Am I wrong? IANAL, so my questions are sincere…
Looks like another weekend, folks, they would need to give 15 minutes warning for a verdict, and we’re past 1:45 for a 2:00 dismiss.
This has been really fun. In a law family geek kind of way.
*waving goodbye to jurors* “Remember museum curator lady! be good this weekend!”
I put 4 Andrea Bocelli albums on my Windows media Player and it is constantly and soothingly in the background. The waiting is easily tolerable.
RadRobin @
50
I think the jury has every intention of giving the truth back. Unfortunately, it seems to be orbiting Pluto, so it could take them a while to finish fetching it…
Biodun at 189–
Great catch! I hope the folks at Countdown are paying attention. I know they look in here for tidbits. KO would have a field day with this.
new thread
Actually, I took the 2pm close as a positive sign that they didn’t want to deliver a verdict on take out the trash day.
This is going to work for the best!
egregious @ 195
One thing that hasn’t bee ever tried is to use the hundreds of college radio stations and non-NPR affiliated (i.e. corporatized) stations in a national network for alternative information. My local 9000 watt station KDVS broadcasts some KPFA stuff and “Democracy Now” but has to pay a fee. It would seem that rather than throwing their money at MSM that is rapidly ineffective if not antagonistic the effort should be to promote and support this alternative system which could be quite effective if better funded and advertised.
LBrowne @ 201
LOL!
Jane Hamsher @ 186
Argh!! I’m manic even from afar!
JoyB @13
Best of luck on your results!
froggermarch @ 202
At least he didn’t answer all his own questions.
Fresh thread from Jane, up and ready for the reading.
cinnamonape @ 179
A petit jury can’t indict, and I do not believe they can recommend charges against a non-defendant.
However, I’d be surprised if the jury wasn’t interviewed after the verdict by Fitz’s team….
punaise @ 164
WHOA! It’s like, serious synchronicity!
With the music discussion going on, I figure I’d put in one of my fav discs and rip it for my eye-pahd. Can you guess which cut on “Before & After Science” was playing when I read that?!?!?
/Rod Serling looks over my shoulder…
And preview is my friend…ooops and sorry
Biodun @ 189
I guess Shooter only believe his words for the few seconds after they leave his mouth
JEP @ 163
not sure you wanna ask me, since I confused FISA and CIPA, but the CIPA material that Feds were working to DEclassify are the transcripts and other evidence that MIGHT have been used in this case had Libby ever taken the stand. since he didnt and they cant be used now, I’m not sure why Fitz would bother to continue to ask Feds to keep working on DEclassifying otherwise Classified information. haha. EPU’d again. hope you get this one JEP.
Christy you keep trying to get us to consider “Evidence” by Coltrane and Monk. No matter how many times you do it, whenever you mention Coltrane I will stubbornly first think of Coltrane and Hartman and “You Are Too Beautiful for one man alone”.
rocket scientist at 215 — I love Coltrane and Hartman. Pretty much Coltrane with anyone, or on his own, for that matter.
West @ 140
No.
I thought the Zen approach is to realize that the verdict has always existed, and that the jury is now in the process of becoming one with it.
HotFlash @
106
That’s a wonderful site. I recently heard one of your compatriots, Genevieve Soly, performing Bach with Viktoria Mullova at the University of Chicago. The harpsichord performance stole the show.
By the way, if you are looking for wonderful music while you’re at the computer, try listening to Emmanuel Ax playing the Brahms 1st Concerto with the NY Phil, on the NY Philharmonic website: http://tinyurl.com/2cz5×3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..mp;search=
Posh Nosh on YouTube! I cannot recommend this diversion enough.
Learn how to embarass your carrots; ravage your tomatoes; disappoint your mussels…
Wow, the Coltrane with Monk? Great stuff. I recently got a gift of the Coltrane “Fearless Leader” box, from his early Blue Note days. All I can say is, everyone should have one.
Love the artist’s conception at the top—worthy of constructing as an installaion. May I suggest overlays?
* A path connecting the postits in series; in a holographic display, the path would be a random variable that refreshes everytime someone steps on
* a “Start here” point, perhaps footsteps, or kneeprints, in the floor at the entrance to the installation; when activated, this switch also begins
* a recording of “Bolero.”
I sure will be glad when this jury finally has it snap into place for them. Maybe, as Christy suggests in a later post, they do need the focus of sequestration.
this is way epu’d. Thank you each of you who sent me well wishes. That was a real pick-me-up. Sitting in the cube waiting out a compile and worrying about these things, it’s neat to be able to reach out and people take a moment to think of what to say. It sure helps. Thank you.